1
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: Lute force.

2
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,319
Speaker 2: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

3
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 2: listening to soft web Radio Special Operations, Military Nails and

4
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 2: straight talk with the guys in the community.

5
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:41,479
Speaker 3: What's going on?

6
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,559
Speaker 1: Hey, this is rad and it is another episode of

7
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 1: soft rep Radio. Insert the sound effects, but listen first

8
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 1: before we get into the guests, which you already know

9
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 1: who they are. Yes, there's multiple guests on today's show.

10
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: I gotta introduce you to what say it with me?

11
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 1: The merch Store. Okay, so soft rep dot com Forward

12
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,479
Speaker 1: slash merch callum is gonna put up a little link

13
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 1: right here and you can click on it and you

14
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: can go check out all the cool merchandise that you know,

15
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: all the guys and gals in the softwarep community are

16
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,600
Speaker 1: putting together for you. We appreciate it keeps the ship

17
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 1: running and it keeps the fireplace going. Second is our

18
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: book club, so soft rep dot com Forward slash book

19
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: hyphen Club. If you're new to the program, welcome. If

20
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,479
Speaker 1: you're a veteran listener of soft Reap Radio, I thank

21
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: you so much. And you probably already know about the

22
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,119
Speaker 1: gym called the sooft rep dot com Forward slash Book

23
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,400
Speaker 1: hyphen Club. Go read something for your brain. Okay, it's

24
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,880
Speaker 1: the gym, and your brain is a muscle. And the

25
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,759
Speaker 1: more you read, the better you are. Knowledge is power.

26
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: So with that said, I've got a couple guests on together.

27
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: They have written a book. The book is gonna help

28
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,919
Speaker 1: transform ma trans is it transformative? It's gonna help transform

29
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 1: your thought process about helping one another, I think. And

30
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 1: so we're gonna get into that with uh these health

31
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:04,880
Speaker 1: professionals here.

32
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 3: So Jessica Baanye and.

33
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 1: I got you, Samuel, I got you, Samuel, Francis, Francis Zadny, Zasney, Zasney.

34
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:25,200
Speaker 3: Right, I got that right right close close, say it

35
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 3: for me.

36
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:34,360
Speaker 1: Sadney, the Sadney, Okay, Samuel Sadney and Jessica Bain Banye Okay. Now,

37
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: Jessica is a former United States Marine Corps officer, and

38
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,239
Speaker 1: Samuel also former United States Marine Corps officer. So shout

39
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: out to the United States Marine Corps, all you devil

40
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,960
Speaker 1: dogs out there, raw, okay, kill you know whatever makes

41
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,359
Speaker 1: you smile? All right, and I think those things are

42
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: what it is. Now I'm gonna read Jessica's bio and

43
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read Samuel's just to give you a little

44
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: background into who we're talking to. And forgive me if

45
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't know your full acronym letters in this as

46
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 1: I read it, but you can correct me as I go. So,

47
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 1: Jessica Baney Major, United States Marine Corps Reserves. I believe

48
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:11,919
Speaker 1: you're still incorrect.

49
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 4: I just got out a couple months ago.

50
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations, ma'am. There's that all right, So, Jessica banye Major,

51
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 1: United States Marine Corps Reserves.

52
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 3: MA LMFT What is LMFT?

53
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 4: Real Quick Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist is.

54
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 1: A graduate of Frostburg State University. She has a bachelor's

55
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: in Social work at Texas A and M University, San Antonio,

56
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 1: and MA in Marriage and Family Therapy. She is pursuing

57
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 1: her PhDs in Counselor Education and Supervision at Regent University.

58
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 1: Jessica servitie United States Marine Corps as an active duty

59
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 1: officer from twenty eleven to twenty sixteen and as a

60
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 1: reserve officer twenty sixteen two just a few months ago.

61
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 1: During her service, she supported multiple training exercises, including theater

62
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: security cooperation events in the Philippines. She performed key billets

63
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 1: as the Deployment Readiness Coordinator for three d Assault Amphibian

64
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: Battalion twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one and the Family

65
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 1: Readiness Officer for first Civil Affairs Group twenty GEZ twenty

66
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: twenty four COVID.

67
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 3: We'll get into that.

68
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 1: Currently, Jessica teaches master level clinical courses at various universities

69
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: and supervises Ukrainian clinicians who working with the Ukrainian military.

70
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,719
Speaker 1: Her research is focused on the cognitive effects of military

71
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: training and war trauma on service members, veterans, and clinicians.

72
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 1: Jessica also continues to provide trauma informed care through her

73
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: telehealth practice, Breakthrough Therapy Texas, serving veterans and military families. Now,

74
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: let me say that one more time. I believe it's

75
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,480
Speaker 1: called Breakthrough Therapy Texas.

76
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 4: Correct, that's correct. You have to add the Texas. The

77
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 4: name was taken.

78
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so you are in charge of that. You have

79
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot on your plate. And congratulations for being the

80
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 1: most powerful person in the world. Okay, And yes, you're welcome,

81
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 1: and that's just coming as being who you are.

82
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 3: Okay.

83
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Now, second, now let me introduce Samuel Francis Zazadny. Samuel

84
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 1: Zzadny is a graduate of the US Naval Academy with

85
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 1: a BS George Washington University MIPP. Hey, what does MIPP

86
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 1: stand for?

87
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 5: Yes, it's a Master's in International Policy and Practice.

88
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,880
Speaker 3: Okay, and Wheaton College. You have an MA.

89
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,520
Speaker 1: He is currently pursuing a Doctor of Psychology, which is

90
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: a side D a PsyD.

91
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,599
Speaker 3: Right is that real? Okay?

92
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: Okay, at Wheaton College in Illinois, with an anticipated graduation

93
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty seven. He served in the US Marine

94
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 1: Corps from two thousand and seven to twenty twenty three

95
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 1: as an officer, helicopter pilot, aviation specialist, and weapons school instructor.

96
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: He deployed as a pilot to Afghanistan in two thousand

97
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,479
Speaker 1: and one, Japan in twenty thirteen, and with a Marine

98
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 1: Expeditionary Unit which I think is called a MEW in

99
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen.

100
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 3: He transitioned to the.

101
00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 1: US Naval excuse me into the US Navy Medical Service

102
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 1: Corps twenty twenty three to present upon acceptance into the

103
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: Health Professions Scholarship Program, which is the HPSP for Clinical Psychology,

104
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 1: preparing for active duty service as a US Navy psychologist.

105
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 1: His clinical experience includes work in community mental health, private practice,

106
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 1: and military contexts. And okay, so I got through both

107
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 1: of your bios. Now there's a third person who's helped

108
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,600
Speaker 1: write this book, and we'll give them a shout who

109
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: didn't join us today, and that's Charles W. Hoague, former

110
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 1: colonel also a stud US Army. You guys have just

111
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 1: really put together fifty years of experience of like military

112
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 1: of just combine health and I want to say healthy

113
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,000
Speaker 1: human services, but health related things. You guys are really

114
00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: focused on seeing people have a mental health day in

115
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,400
Speaker 1: their life and take care of themselves. It seems like

116
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: and I just have to say something Samuel with with

117
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 1: your beard and who you are? And are are you

118
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 1: still in the Navy?

119
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm in a student status right now. So

120
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 5: the Navy's paying for my tuition and they're giving me

121
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 5: a little stipend. But I get to wear a beard

122
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 5: and kind of do what I need to do to

123
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 5: get classes done. And then once I go back on

124
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 5: active duty for internship, it's.

125
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 3: All got to come off, all come off. So what

126
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 3: are your current what's your current rank? Are you an

127
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 3: O four five?

128
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:39,120
Speaker 6: So I was an.

129
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 5: Four in the Marine Corps and now I'm in one

130
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 5: in the Navy until I go back on activeduty.

131
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so is that one now an ensign? Yes?

132
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 1: And an four would have been like a major captain yep.

133
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that's a anna marine.

134
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 1: You too, Okay, and so and so, Jessica, you retired

135
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: as a office a major as a major, so that's

136
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 1: a four and a marine. Okay, Yeah, you are pretty

137
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: both are pretty awesome. Okay, No, you fit right in here.

138
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: The vibe.

139
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 3: I love it.

140
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: So you guys have written a book with Colonel Hogue.

141
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it like that because that's how

142
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: I remember his first name. Now. It's called Unseen Warrior,

143
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: a Military Cultural Guide for Mental Health Professionals, right, why, Jessica.

144
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll kind of jump in here. I recruited Sam

145
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 4: and doctor Hoague at one point to go on this

146
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 4: journey with me. The kind of the backstory is is that,

147
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 4: you know, I want to be a marine my entire life.

148
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 4: Nine to eleven hit. I was like, I'm going and listed,

149
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 4: I'm doing this thing. God had a different plan. I

150
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 4: kept getting bumped around by recruiters, ended up going to college,

151
00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 4: graduating college, trying out for the Officer Corps hardest challenge

152
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 4: in my life. Fell in love with it. Obviously joined

153
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,960
Speaker 4: in twenty eleven, twenty sixteen, I get there's a drawdown

154
00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 4: and a lot of us got released, and I was

155
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 4: one of them. And I remember, like the day of

156
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,439
Speaker 4: the next day when I got my DT two fourteen,

157
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 4: my active duty husband is putting on his camis going

158
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 4: to work, and I'm just lost completely. I can say

159
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 4: the word is despair now, but I was completely like

160
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 4: who am I? Loss of identity, loss of job, loss

161
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,000
Speaker 4: of friendships, loss of coping skills, structure, you name it.

162
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,840
Speaker 4: It was all gone in an instant, and it kind

163
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 4: of just started this whole like Sam, let's say, mesearchs research.

164
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 4: Six months later, I'm starting my master's program and marriage

165
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 4: to Texas A and M for Marriage of Family Therapy,

166
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 4: and I'm introduced to doctor Hoague's book, his original book,

167
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,320
Speaker 4: Once a Warrior, Always a Warrior, shout out out to

168
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,080
Speaker 4: that one, and it changed my life. It said that

169
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 4: PTSD is a paradox, what a scene as what saved

170
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 4: your life and a life threatening environment is now a

171
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 4: symptomology in the first world country And it blew my mind.

172
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 4: And so it started me from that point on twenty

173
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 4: sixteen to where we are today. Research dig into the

174
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,480
Speaker 4: stut the information out there. Why am I different? What

175
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 4: is wrong with me? Why am I not assimilating back

176
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 4: into society? I don't know.

177
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,400
Speaker 1: It was very weird, So why why?

178
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:38,760
Speaker 3: Why?

179
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's because like all of a sudden, now

180
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 1: you're like you have to sit down and you're like

181
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 1: turning the TV on and everyone's you know, a part

182
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,679
Speaker 1: of the machine, and you were a cog in that machine,

183
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,439
Speaker 1: and now you're outside of that and you're just looking

184
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: from the outside in and you're just like, well, how

185
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 1: can I cope with the situation yourself? Like this is

186
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,960
Speaker 1: just from mesearch?

187
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 4: I love that, Okay, yeah, no, it we go in

188
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,800
Speaker 4: depth into there's a chol chapter about transitioning in the book.

189
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 4: It is it is a culture that we assimilate into

190
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 4: the military culture, and it's you're my opinion, You're it's

191
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 4: a cognitive changes. There's things that happen that you need

192
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 4: to be different in order to thrive with it in

193
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,959
Speaker 4: this environment, and that difference never goes away. And then

194
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 4: when you get out, it doesn't quite fit with the

195
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 4: civilian society. Civilian society is very chaotic. Civilian society is

196
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 4: very feelies. Lots of emotions, but that's not the military culture,

197
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,720
Speaker 4: and I think that we can go into it. But

198
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 4: it is definitely like cold water really, you know, poured

199
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,880
Speaker 4: over you. It is a different transitional experience, and I

200
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 4: think that we minimize it and celebrate it. Good job, man,

201
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 4: what are you gonna do? And it's like I just

202
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 4: lost everything. So I long story short, I'm in my

203
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,559
Speaker 4: PhD program. I am presenting at a conference. Sam is

204
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,559
Speaker 4: at the same conference. I am presenting on chaplain burnout

205
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 4: and Sam is presenting on something military. I go up

206
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 4: there in my little bolsterous, challenging way and I'm like,

207
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 4: what do you know? And he's like, yeah, I'm a

208
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 4: marine and this is what so yes became besties right away.

209
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 4: Did the Smith test was like I know you. And

210
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 4: I was offered a book deal from a a few

211
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,560
Speaker 4: hours later from Kendall Hunt Publishing based on my presentation.

212
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 4: Walked over to the Sam. I was like, hey, you

213
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,079
Speaker 4: want to be a co author.

214
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 3: Ye.

215
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,199
Speaker 4: He was professional and he could just carry himself like

216
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,680
Speaker 4: a lieutenant colonel could. And I tend to be more

217
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 4: on the acting enlisted side and in the way I

218
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,840
Speaker 4: hold myself sometimes. And I was like, this is a

219
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 4: great fit. He can balance me out.

220
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so and so so. Sam. Is that

221
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: really how it all went down.

222
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 5: I mean, I can't speak for Jessica, but my my

223
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 5: experience of it was that I'm in this conference, I'm

224
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 5: presenting this poster, and this person comes up to me

225
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 5: and is like, hey, great poster. You want to join

226
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 5: a book project? And I was not one to shy

227
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 5: away from opportunity. I was like, sure, let's do it.

228
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 5: But the pitch for me was that there's a gap

229
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 5: in literature that clinicians need to better understand military populations.

230
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 5: Right because we have the VA, we have the Department

231
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 5: of Defense health sectors that are looking at how can

232
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,680
Speaker 5: we prevent veteran suicides, how can we support veteran mental health,

233
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 5: how can we support active do service members and their families?

234
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,120
Speaker 5: But what was missing is like something that specifically addressed

235
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 5: the cultural features of the military and why it's different

236
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 5: than somebody walking in off the street into a clinic

237
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 5: and saying, hey, I've got anxiety depression. PTSD. Helped me

238
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 5: because cultural considerations are crucial, and they teach us this

239
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 5: in the Doctor of Psychology program. Like you, A lot

240
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 5: of our classes are spent just understanding and reflecting on

241
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 5: how different cultural aspects, even language, how that affects someone's treatment.

242
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 5: And if you look closely at some of the VA's

243
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 5: statistics for treatment, there's a very very high failure rate,

244
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 5: a high dropout rate for mental health treatment services. So

245
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 5: we're thinking, Okay, what is missing from this equation. What

246
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 5: is it about military culture that military and civilian clinicians

247
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 5: might be missing that's preventing them from connecting with this

248
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,800
Speaker 5: population in a way that brings about healing Because regardless

249
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 5: of the treatment type, regardless of even sometimes that the medications,

250
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 5: the basis for healing in mental health is the quality

251
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 5: of the therapeutic relationship between the clients and the practitioner.

252
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 5: And if the practitioner does not have the knowledge, the

253
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 5: cultural knowledge, or the understanding of what this person has

254
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 5: been through or the stressors that they're currently experiencing. If

255
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,400
Speaker 5: we're talking about activeduty service members, they're not going to

256
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 5: be able to connect and the veteran is going to

257
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,400
Speaker 5: stop going to treatment or the treatment is not going

258
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 5: to be as effective. So that's kind of what caught

259
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 5: me as like, Hey, I don't think there's anything out

260
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 5: there that actually fills this knowledge gap for practitioners. So

261
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 5: the book is primarily written for practitioners, whether they're civilian

262
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 5: or military, working with active duty or veterans or their families,

263
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 5: to understand, Hey, this is essential information of field manual,

264
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 5: if you will, for understanding the military mind so that

265
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 5: you can actually treat these individuals effectively.

266
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 1: That's great. I'm still listening. Yes, No, continue with their posters,

267
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,040
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.

268
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was the pitch. That was the pitch.

269
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 5: I mean, of course, to evolved over time, but initially, yes, yeah.

270
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 6: Like where is this information?

271
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 3: Where is it?

272
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 5: We talked, We talk We talk all about like how

273
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 5: to connect with people in community mental health context with

274
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 5: this low income. We talk about socioeconomic disparities and how

275
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 5: that affects barriers to treatment. But are we talking about

276
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 5: why veterans hate going to therapy, why active duty service

277
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 5: members do not want to go see the on base clinicians,

278
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 5: whether because they're worried about their security clearance, because they're

279
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 5: worried about oh what if I get even a diagnosis,

280
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 5: because that's the way.

281
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 1: The whole mental am I going to lose my Second

282
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 1: Amendment if I go and tell somebody that I'm having

283
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 1: to eat funny thoughts, and a lot of people don't

284
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: want to lose just that fraction of a sick situation,

285
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,200
Speaker 1: let alone.

286
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 3: Here's a bunch of pills. You know.

287
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,199
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, oh so you have this, this, this, oh, this, this,

288
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna cocktail you up with this plastic cup full

289
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: of little pills swallow every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday,

290
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,200
Speaker 1: Monday at two in the morning. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait,

291
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 1: is there something else? Is there something else that I

292
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: can do besides open up a pill popper? You know,

293
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 1: it's like, can I go snowboarding, skiing? Adaptive therapy? You know,

294
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,119
Speaker 1: when you're getting out of the military and you've got

295
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,359
Speaker 1: you know, I mean being in nature.

296
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 3: You could probably agree with this.

297
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 1: Whether you're swimming in a pool surrounded by the water

298
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: engulfing you, that water is just nurturing you like like

299
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 1: a mother, okay, just like loving you like a father, Okay,

300
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: both parents at the same time. You may not even

301
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: have your parents around, but when you get in the pool,

302
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 1: that water is gonna caresh you and your body is water.

303
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, why do I feel so good

304
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 1: in the water, even if you're scared of the water.

305
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 1: Once you get in it and you learn how to

306
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 1: adapt to it, it's just so it's so calming and

307
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: relax right. And then you get out of the pool

308
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 1: and you go back into your car and you buckle in,

309
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 1: and all the chaos, all the noise, all that's right

310
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: back at you, right, and we have to deal with that,

311
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 1: And that's kind of I guess the PTSD aspect is

312
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 1: all the chaos, all the noise, and then you have

313
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: the aspect of being nurtured and care for, which we

314
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: I always want my doctor to be a pediatrician.

315
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 3: Okay, let me be clear.

316
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: I want to be treated with a lollipop. And does

317
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: this hurt rad yes, we know. I don't want to

318
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 1: be like, suck it up, you're a big boy, grow up,

319
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,920
Speaker 1: move on, tie your shoes, get out of my office.

320
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 1: That's not what is the best path for somebody who's

321
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 1: already dealing with a lot of noise. They would like

322
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 1: some kid gloves. It's like, hey, doctor at the VA,

323
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna be you know, can you be

324
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 1: nice to me like a kid? Like when I lose that?

325
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,160
Speaker 1: You know, where do we lose the pediatrician touch. As

326
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: we turn eighteen, all of a sudden, it's no longer.

327
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,160
Speaker 4: It's like what well, I think, I think to kind

328
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 4: of like summarize everything we're all saying too, is that

329
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 4: there's just a it's not just any one person's fault,

330
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 4: but there's just a lack of understanding on the mental

331
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: health field. On about military. You talk about like the

332
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 4: cultural understanding, The military wasn't even deemed its own culture,

333
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 4: wasn't definitionally called its own culture until twenty twenty one

334
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 4: when the APA and the American Psychological Association gave it

335
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 4: a definition for veterans, and then in twenty twenty two

336
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 4: and twenty twenty three, additional research came out by Cameron

337
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 4: that kind of distinguished that cultural aspect. But we weren't

338
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 4: even calling military its own culture, its own language, its

339
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 4: own values, its own ethics, morals, et cetera. But those

340
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 4: things that kept us alive again in those situations where

341
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 4: under stress, inoculation, in tense operational conditions we're talking about

342
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 4: training or deployment, those things that kept us in that

343
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,719
Speaker 4: culture and thriving are now kind of counterproductive. If your

344
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 4: spouse is trying to talk to you and have feelings,

345
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 4: or your kids are want to hold your hand and

346
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 4: want to discuss things about booboos.

347
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, feelings, feelings, feelings. They're like, yeah, I gotta

348
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow morning at three thirty. Your feelings can

349
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: just you know, subside your feelings, kay? Because yeah, I

350
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 1: mean all the people I've talked to, you know that

351
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: have come on the show over the years, and everybody's

352
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 1: always trying to find a way to tap into that

353
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, psychological profile that we all carry to try

354
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: to tame the situation inside our head. I was talking

355
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: to a commander of a Ohio class submarine recently on

356
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: the show It'll be coming out soon, and he was

357
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: talking about stoicism as a warrior's you know, philosophy in

358
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: the military and how you do comparliamentalize problems and shove

359
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: them behind your head, shove them away and try to

360
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: move forward in a challenging situation. And training. People die

361
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 1: in training. It's that serious training is just as almost

362
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: real as the real thing. You're training for the real thing,

363
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: and so there's so much going involved in training. They

364
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: get you guys, get spun up to sometimes do ninety

365
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: day tours, which is a hot tour deployment, and these

366
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: guys go in and they do ninety days. But it's

367
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: like one mission leads to two missions, leads to three missions,

368
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 1: all in the same twenty four hour period. And so

369
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: you get these people coming out of the military and

370
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 1: they've done a good job at a boy at a girl.

371
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 1: Hit them on the back. You know, here's your DD

372
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: two to fourteen, which for those of you that may

373
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 1: not know, is your discharge forms from the military, and

374
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: it has your characterization honorable other than or dishonorable. And

375
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: then it has like any awards or you know, certificates

376
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: of achievement that are on there, and it follows you

377
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: everywhere you go through the Veterans Administration. You can go

378
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: onto their app and find your DD two fourteen right there.

379
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: So you know, it's like that's all great. You close

380
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: out the end of your career. You can get all

381
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: these things signed by everybody, thinking it's gonna matter in

382
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,719
Speaker 1: the civilian world, and at the end of the day,

383
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: a lot of that does not matter. That you're closing

384
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 1: out in the civilian world. Now you have to cocoon

385
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: yourself to come out a new butterfly. Okay, so you

386
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: you cocoon yourself to join the military, and then they

387
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: poofed you out as a butterfly. Some camouflage wings, okay,

388
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: cool antenna's probably the latest in technology on your head.

389
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: And then you're like, I'm flying, but where am I

390
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: flying to? And then they fly you back home and

391
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: say sit here and look at your Nintendo. You're like,

392
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: that thing's been sitting there for like six years with

393
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: dust on it, and now you're collecting dust on it.

394
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: I just am assuming that's kind of the path.

395
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: It's like everything slows down, and it's like, like you said,

396
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: you know, you get out, You're like, but you're going

397
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: to work, you know, to your husband, he's like putting

398
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: on his camouflage gear and off he goes. And you're

399
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: just probably used to putting on your camouflage gear and

400
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, a second gear. I'm sure a lot

401
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: of us can all relate with that same situation. It's

402
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: just the getting out. So the cocoon asked, is what

403
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: I call it. So now you have to go in

404
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: and recaccoon yourself into a new butterfly.

405
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: Well, and one of the things that Sam did not mention,

406
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 4: and I'm really excited that you brought this butterfly cocooning transformation. Yes,

407
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 4: is that Sam's poster had He had this idea about

408
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 4: developmental stagnation and I'll let you take it, Sam, But

409
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,239
Speaker 4: this is this, This is the reason I was like,

410
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 4: I need you on the book and I need your

411
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 4: brain in this project.

412
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

413
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 5: So I've been thinking about my own personal journey and

414
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 5: kind of what it was like for me to go

415
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 5: through the indoctrination phases and how I was really searching

416
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 5: for a sense of meaning as a young guy, and

417
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 5: I just kind of through the course of all the

418
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 5: indoctrination process, I just kind of attached it to the military.

419
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, this is this is my mission,

420
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: this is my life. Now, this defines who I am.

421
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 5: And I think the military does that on purpose because

422
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 5: it wants people to.

423
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 6: Work really well within.

424
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 5: The machine, like knowing what their role is, and you

425
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 5: can't do that if you don't attach your identity to

426
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 5: the service itself and say, okay, like being a good

427
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 5: marine is what defines me a lot a lot of

428
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 5: the time. So, and I think when you look at

429
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 5: the developmental psychology trajectory, when you look at the actual

430
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 5: stages of development.

431
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 6: We typically pull people into the military.

432
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 5: We're in this very very sensitive timeframe where their identity

433
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 5: is developing. They're like, okay, like I think I know

434
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 5: what I want to do. You're going one hundred miles

435
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 5: an hour. You're like often wrong, never in doubt, like,

436
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 5: let's do it right. And the military catches you in

437
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 5: that very sensitive period and says, this is your identity.

438
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 5: This is what defines being a good marine, this is

439
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 5: what defines being a good soldier, good airman, and this

440
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 5: is what you need to do to perform well.

441
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 6: And the mission is most important, right.

442
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 5: And then so what I experienced was kind of a

443
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 5: wholesale adaptation hook line and sinker of like, this is

444
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 5: my identity, this is who I'm going to be, this

445
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 5: is this is what defines success for me as as

446
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 5: a person.

447
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 6: And oh, by the.

448
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: Way, it has a more global sense of meaning because

449
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 5: there's a lot of energy in support for the military

450
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,239
Speaker 5: at the time, because of nine to eleven, because of

451
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 5: you know, ongoing campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. So the

452
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: national fervor supports that this is the right thing for me,

453
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 5: this is this is a good thing to be well.

454
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 5: A lot of veterans when they get out and they

455
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 5: lose that sense of brotherhood, they lose that sense of meaning,

456
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 5: that sense of purpose.

457
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 6: Their identity structured.

458
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 5: Now that it's no longer attached to the institution, starts

459
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 5: to fall apart, and they're confronted with the realities of

460
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 5: and the monotony of civilian life. They're confronted with the

461
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 5: fact that, just like you said, a lot of the

462
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 5: things that they thought were amazing, all these awards, these accomplishments,

463
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 5: these extra moss that they got no longer seem to

464
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 5: really matter in the civilian world. They're applying for jobs,

465
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 5: they're thinking they're going to kick in the door in

466
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 5: the next you know, contract position or you know a

467
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 5: company that they come on too, and it doesn't really

468
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 5: connect in the way that they thought it would. And

469
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 5: now suddenly there's this sort of this identity crisis, right,

470
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 5: and on top of that, the loss of brotherhood and

471
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 5: all the mental health challenges associated with that or sisterhood,

472
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 5: you know, the loss of community makes it challenging to integrate.

473
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 5: Your language is different, your stress responses and normal environments

474
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 5: are different. But a lot of that is compounded by

475
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 5: the fact that your identity was attached to the institution,

476
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 5: and now it's no longer and you have to find

477
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 5: something else meaningful to attach it too. So that's a

478
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 5: little bit of a reflection of my experience was is

479
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 5: suddenly now I'm on the outside and I'm still in

480
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 5: the reserve. So I'm kind of like one foot in,

481
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 5: one foot out, and I'm starting to see that the

482
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 5: rest of the world doesn't think this way. The rest

483
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 5: of the world doesn't really like work this way. They

484
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 5: don't respond to stressors the same way. And some that

485
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, I actually have to figure out who

486
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 5: I am without the military. And it's like I started

487
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 5: doing this stage of identity development that I should have

488
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 5: done when I was eighteen nineteen years old when I

489
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 5: was starting the military. Now I'm doing it in my

490
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 5: mid thirties with the benefit of a lot of experience,

491
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 5: but a lot of experience was absorbed with the mission

492
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: focus with doing this, like following.

493
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 6: This order, accomplishing that. And so I'm like, I.

494
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 5: Would benefit so much from somebody understanding, my therapist or

495
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 5: clinician or even medical professionals in general, understanding that I'm

496
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 5: having to essentially go back in time developmentally to sort

497
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 5: this out so that I can be a better dad,

498
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 5: I can be a better husband, I can be a

499
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 5: better worker in the civilian community that are a psychologists.

500
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 6: Whatever it might be.

501
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 5: But until you sort out that phase where your identity

502
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 5: is essentially been hijacked by the military, you're going to

503
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 5: kind of be stuck. And so that's where having this

504
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 5: book and being able to essentially say and show the clinicians, hey,

505
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 5: this is what the development trajectory for psychologically for a

506
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 5: military member looks like.

507
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 6: It's not the same because.

508
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 5: They attached themselves to an institution when they should have

509
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 5: been figuring out who they really were, and now you

510
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 5: have this weird mix of institution in person that has

511
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 5: to sort of be unraveled and repackaged and refocused on

512
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 5: the individual for them to be able to flourish on

513
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 5: the outside.

514
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: You know, it kind of reminds me of my dad,

515
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: former Green Beret, before I joined the military. He's like,

516
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: just remember something, He's like, you know, the uniform doesn't

517
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: wear you. You wear the uniform, and so you make

518
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: it what it is when you wear it. You put

519
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: the soul into the uniform. It doesn't wear you when

520
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: you want.

521
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: It's the opposite.

522
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: So I think what he was trying to say is,

523
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, you be the best you in that uniform

524
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: at all times.

525
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: And so you have to understand that.

526
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's not the tuxedo that you wear when

527
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: you go out that wears you. You wear it and

528
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: then you feel good in it or whatever you're wearing.

529
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: I just want to put it out there if you

530
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: may not have a military uniform or whatever that uniform

531
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: was that you were always wearing, you know, because you

532
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: got to remember some of our listeners, you know, they

533
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: had asthma and they could never join the military, but.

534
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 3: Yet they could.

535
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: They should, They should be in line with some with

536
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: saluting some major they should be there. But someone says,

537
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: oh you have asthma, but yeah, somebody who's in there.

538
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: You're like, how did you get here? Like how did

539
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: you make it this far? You know, like the kid

540
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: with asthma should be here. You know, it's like, how

541
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: did you just get here? You don't even pass your

542
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: two miles what you know, things like that. It's like

543
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: there's just I don't know, it's just such a weird culture, right,

544
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: Like you said, Jessicad, the military is a culture, and

545
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: for it not to have been defined until twenty twenty one.

546
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: That kind of just like, I don't understand that because

547
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: I mean, seventeen seventies. A culture marine's been around a

548
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: long time, two hundred and fifty years. Raw. Okay, happy

549
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: birthday by the way, all right, okay, I'm I'm just

550
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: kind of baffled at as I'm listening, because you guys,

551
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: it's making sense now to my listener. You know, The

552
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: Unseen Warrior, a military cultural Guide for Mental health professionals.

553
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: That's literally what this book is designed for is clinicians

554
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: and doctors and folks to read. You guys have put

555
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: your brain power together to say, hey, you should implement

556
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: this in your practices and read this and have some

557
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: kind of insight into who you're dealing with. Even if

558
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: you just pull one line out of the book and

559
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: it helps that patient, you know, i'd imagine.

560
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, this book has been such a labor of love.

561
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: When I say writing a book is fun.

562
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: Or lying, now, I'm just joking on my water major

563
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: pro stress it It's okay, that's funny.

564
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: It's no. It was a wonderful, amazing. It was like

565
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: a deployment. It was day in and day out twelve

566
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: hour days and on top of our normal you know,

567
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 4: I'm still my PhD. Sam Stone his PhD. Doctor Hoague

568
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: is still doctor Hogue and busy doing what everything he's doing,

569
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: and doctor Yes, a lot of important things. And even

570
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 4: the title Unseen Warrior was something that Sam and I

571
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 4: initially came up with and I just I clung to it.

572
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: I was like, this is it because it's imagine that

573
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: one time where you finally get the courage to say

574
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 4: I need help. I'm at my breaking point. You know,

575
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 4: painus weakness leave in the body, and here we are

576
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: saying I'm weak and I need this. That's a big

577
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: step for any person, but for especially for military and

578
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 4: veteran And then you walk into that mental health office

579
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: whatever it is, and you feel ostracized and the outsider,

580
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 4: and you feel like you're the odd one as they

581
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: just don't understand and say it's unseen within that context.

582
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: And I think that this book, if your listeners are like, well,

583
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: I'm not a mental health professionals, just spread the word,

584
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: your mental health professional, like, just spread the word. Is

585
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 4: really kind of grassroots movement because this is, to my knowledge,

586
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 4: one of the only books on the market right now.

587
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 4: That's designed by veterans that are also mental health professionals

588
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 4: that are sitting here trying to get the word out,

589
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: and the book is laid out a beautifully. I wanted

590
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: to make sure we talked about like boot camp and

591
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 4: the ASVAB and like you have to.

592
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Be really quel, I have sixty three yeah, yeah, yeah,

593
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: just let you know sixty three yeah, yeah, yeah, there

594
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: you go.

595
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 4: That's nice.

596
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

597
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: On the as fab, since you want to talk about

598
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: as fabs, I think I got confused on the ass

599
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: fab with all of the like cogs and the mechanical component.

600
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 3: Of the thing of the whole test.

601
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: I just was like at that point, I think it

602
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: was like, better pick an answer than no answer. So

603
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's like if you have a cog going

604
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: left and a cog going right and a bevel gear

605
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: going up and down, which way is the piston going?

606
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm joining for something other than that.

607
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 4: So that was my favorite part. I'm literally on the

608
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: screen do this like finger point I was doing.

609
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, which, okay, since you

610
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up the as fab, not to cut

611
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: you off, right, So the asfab is the Armed Studies

612
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: Vocational Aptitude Battery Test. I believe to enter the military,

613
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: you got to take an ass FAB. You can take

614
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: a pre ask fab at your recruiter station at the

615
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: career centers, but that's just going to give them an

616
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: idea of where you'll score on the greater as FAB,

617
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: which you have to take, which is like three or

618
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: four hours straight right a whole. I mean, you should

619
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: know right there at MEPs that you're in for it.

620
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: The moment you start taking the ASPAB, you should be like,

621
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: oh wait, this is four hours straight and no breaks

622
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: and no nothing. And they're like right, You're like, oh

623
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: and I'm just here, here, I am here. You go okay,

624
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: and it just starts right.

625
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: There, two sections of math, two sections of English, like

626
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 4: but it tells you because the I guess the stereotype

627
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 4: of some people have is that you join the military

628
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: because you have no other options. Right, not always, but

629
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 4: that's stereotypical. But to really you see, like seventy eight

630
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 4: percent of the country would just be disqualified right off

631
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 4: the bat physically, mentally, emotionally. You know, an IQI is

632
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 4: to be able to score the number that you need

633
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 4: to even get in then and then we kind of

634
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 4: go through the I'm laughing because I'm thinking of how

635
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 4: hard Marine Corps boot camps are compared to.

636
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: Maybe and everyone else's yeah, everyone else's just say it.

637
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: It's okay, you have to.

638
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: Be a ranger to be equivalent to a Marine Corps

639
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: after boot camp in the Army.

640
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

641
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: So let's just put it out there like that, right, Okay.

642
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 4: I'm very proud of my service. I know, Sam, and.

643
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: I'm very proud of your service. Yes, I just want

644
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 3: you to know.

645
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: Thank you for my service.

646
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you're welcome.

647
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: I can't get site tracked, but yes, no, it's it's

648
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 4: just a it's a wonderful like collaboration between like starting

649
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 4: a boot camp to starting with transition to the fleet,

650
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 4: to deployment's military sexual assault, suicide, moral injury is discussed

651
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: as very controversial right now, like is and we could

652
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 4: go into that, but we go into families, we go

653
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 4: into transition, pharmaceuticology, we we go into the neurological and

654
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 4: cognit the processes that I think that the adaptive brain

655
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 4: is kind of what I call it when we you

656
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 4: know about fight, flight and freeze are our main key

657
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 4: elements to survival. Well, what happens when you're in boot

658
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 4: camp or on additional trainings. They're scary, there's they're meant

659
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 4: to be fear inducing, stress inoculation, but you're not allowed

660
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 4: to go into the primal instincts of running away, fighting

661
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 4: or shutting down. You have to act in them. It's

662
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 4: of chaos and that trained response. Samini kind of differ

663
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: on what that could be. It's not readily studied, but

664
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: that most of research right now is done after the deployment,

665
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 4: after the military sexual assault, after the transition. It's not

666
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 4: taking into account. The research isn't that the brain was

667
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: already adaptively trained starting with that inoculation into the branch

668
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: of service. And so we're already starting with starting a

669
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 4: false I guess idea of who the population is that

670
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 4: the research is studying because unless you're a veteran, unless

671
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 4: you've gone through or a military, you don't know that

672
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 4: the transformation starts way before those secondary events. That's off.

673
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 3: No, No, I'm I'm listening.

674
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just waiting to start getting into like

675
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: the marriage side of things, and like you know, mom

676
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: was home while dad was deployed as a Green beret

677
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: at my house, and he would be gone for three

678
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: to six months at a time. So my family unit

679
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: only moved really from California to Utah in the early

680
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: eighties when Dad got stationed here with the SF and

681
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: then I was about seven or eight. But I never

682
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: realized Dad wasn't home. Sometimes I'd be like, Oh, he'll

683
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: be back, He's just fishing. All I was ever told

684
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: is if anybody called for Dad, just say he was fishing.

685
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: And one time this guy's like, well, you know when

686
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: he's gonna be back, and I was like, yeah, six months.

687
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: I was just a little kid, right, and I was like, yeah,

688
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: Dad's just fishing for six months.

689
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,479
Speaker 3: But I always thought Mom was there.

690
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: Mom always represented as if Dad was there right now,

691
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: and then I'd hear Dad's voice on the phone, I think,

692
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: And so I never really feared. I always thought he

693
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: was a hero, so he's never gonna go anywhere, so

694
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: you know, but he would go to Thailand for six

695
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: months and do some type of joint training mission or

696
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: go someplace and do something. But Mom always held the

697
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: family unit together, and then Dad would come home, and

698
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: then there's feelings okay, and then there's like, hey, babe.

699
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: She's like, well, hold on, I gotta take aerin to school,

700
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: I gotta take Jerry to the class, and I got

701
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 1: to take care of all these other things. I gotta

702
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: go make sure the mail gets posted so that the

703
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: bills are paid. And by the way, I've been the

704
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: man and the woman in the house for the last

705
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: six months, so hold on, right, It's like, how do

706
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: you know? But they never really gave off any vibes

707
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: like that. I really grew up in a cool, loving home.

708
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: Mom and dad always seemed to have made time for

709
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: me to be who I am, and just like dedicated.

710
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: I always thought Dad was there to play baseball.

711
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: With me all the time. That was a goal of mine.

712
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: So the marriage aspect of it, and they were married

713
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: for thirty till he died. You know, she was seventeen

714
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: sixty something, so they were married like thirty five years.

715
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: Let's say thirty six years. Okay, long time, and so

716
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: longer than that. Geez, I'm doing them disservice. Sorry, I

717
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: don't know their exact dates. But anyways, my parents was

718
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: just together for a long time, so I get a

719
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: lot of that. So my wife and I've been together

720
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: twenty six years. Wow, you know, you know, hey, thank

721
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: you right, And so I get a lot of that

722
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: from them. They've always just bred, you know, you know,

723
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: treat your wife right, you know, treat your husband right,

724
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: family unit, you know, the kids, et cetera.

725
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: So I don't know, it's.

726
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: Just I just love hearing you guys talk about mental health,

727
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: and even if I'm not the doctor in PhD class,

728
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: I still have an opinion on, you know, a healthy

729
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: family unit of what I can see it. As you know,

730
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: maybe it was because I grew up in California to

731
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: Utah with the Mormon Klan. I don't know, okay, but.

732
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 4: It's funny you say that because I mean, Sam can

733
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 4: jump in and talk about being the active duty father

734
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: right in the time that you missed For me, I

735
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: went from we were both active duty to then I

736
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: was a reservist. So that now i'm just as I say,

737
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 4: just as spot I am a spouse. It's a lot

738
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 4: less fun in my opinion on this side. But it is.

739
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 4: You had these transitions where the first couple of weeks

740
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 4: before they leave, they're shut down and you're trying to

741
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 4: hold on with your life. Then they leave and you're

742
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 4: like trying to process how to be a single person right,

743
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 4: and then two weeks before they start coming back, you're

744
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 4: wound up, going to excitement, nerves, the strangers coming back

745
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 4: to my house, and then another two weeks to try

746
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 4: to get into a normal like don't put your clothes there,

747
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 4: and this is how I did the thing. But if

748
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 4: you don't have good moral values or at least a

749
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 4: family that you can say, that's what right looks like,

750
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 4: and that's how we cope and argue. And I don't

751
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: you know, many service members, I mean the numbers are debatable,

752
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 4: have adverse childhood experiences, so they don't they've never seen

753
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: what a good marriage looks like, but then perpetuates the

754
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 4: stress in their life and the things that they then

755
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 4: have to endure. And Sam, I know, I just cut

756
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 4: you off, but.

757
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 6: No, it's fine.

758
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 5: I think that a lot of the reasons for why

759
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 5: it service member or veteran might initially seek mental health

760
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 5: treatment is because a lot of how the military culture

761
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 5: has affected them may not be fitting at home, or

762
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 5: they may already be dysfunction at home. That's kind of

763
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 5: making that it's interacting with it, whether you know, especially

764
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 5: for enlisted we know enlisted members don't make a lot

765
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 5: of money, right, The patients are not that great, and

766
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 5: so there's a lot of fun stresses that come with

767
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 5: it that affects the whole family system. So you add

768
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 5: financial stress on top of the fact that maybe their

769
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 5: system because of stress inoculation through training, that kind of.

770
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 6: Thing, maybe a deployment where there were a lot of traumatic.

771
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 5: Stressors, those kinds of things, they come back from that,

772
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 5: not to mention, they've been disconnected potentially for a while,

773
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 5: depending upon the nature and quality of communication and that

774
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 5: kind of thing. And especially in army, I mean a

775
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 5: lot of times they have much longer deployment sometimes maybe

776
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 5: is much longer than Marine Corps tries to stick at

777
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 5: a little bit shorter six to seven months at least

778
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 5: when I was in. But so now you have all

779
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 5: of these compounding factors where you have the service member

780
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 5: who comes from his military context comes back into the

781
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 5: home context. Maybe he's doing great at work or maybe not.

782
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 5: But let's say he's doing great at work, he comes

783
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: home and a lot of the same mechanisms for stress

784
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 5: response and managing relationships at work and the environments and

785
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 5: just all the stress and the heat and the equipment

786
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 5: and every thing that they have to do. Imagine they

787
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,959
Speaker 5: kind of take that mindset into the home environment where

788
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 5: you have wife, maybe you have some kids, you have

789
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 5: other aspects of the community, and your whole system is

790
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 5: just is just at ninety nine all the time, right,

791
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 5: You're always just ready to react to something, right, and

792
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 5: normal home stressors they have a disproportionate response to it,

793
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 5: even if they don't have PTSD, even if they don't

794
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 5: necessarily have trauma. The stress of the military, prolonged workplace stress,

795
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 5: and the stress conditioning that they had to do to

796
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 5: be able to complete indoctrination and to be able to

797
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 5: be successful in a lot of the jobs they have,

798
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 5: that's kind of moved their stress balance into kind of

799
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 5: into the red or yellow zone where they're kind of

800
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 5: always like operating in this heightened stress state it's called

801
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 5: an allostatic load. Has kind of just shifted the way

802
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 5: their body just generally responds because they're under such high

803
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 5: demand all the time. So you have somebody who's has

804
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 5: kind of like a just always kind of operating in

805
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 5: that heightened stress zone now comes into a home environment

806
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 5: and they're trying to do normal home things, and what

807
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 5: do they do instead of being compassionate, empathetic, emotionally coregulating

808
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 5: with their kid when the kids having a tantrum, are

809
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 5: they able to emotionally coregulate and meet them and be

810
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 5: gentle And probably not.

811
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 6: They're probably going to be like.

812
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 5: Go here, do this do that like because they're they're

813
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 5: just like on the ceiling because they're so stressed with

814
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 5: the noise.

815
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: Right.

816
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 5: So that's just an example of how the military culture

817
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 5: and stress inoculation and doctrination can kind of over time,

818
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 5: can affect military members' ability to function in normal environments.

819
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 5: So a lot of times why they might come into

820
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 5: therapy or seek treatment back to where this gramble all started,

821
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 5: is because they're experiencing distress in those other environments. And

822
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 5: that's typically where a diagnosis would be warrant is if

823
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 5: you're having distressed in multiple environments, not just one, right, but.

824
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 6: Like or one that's that's really severe. It just depends.

825
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 5: But that's kind of why we wanted clinicians to have

826
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 5: this understanding of how the military culture affects service members

827
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 5: and veterans so that way they can say, Okay, your

828
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 5: system is now kind of rewired or shifted to be

829
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 5: able to be successful in the military, and that's not

830
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 5: working at home, and we need to build you skills

831
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 5: to sort of tolerate the stress and to manage the

832
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 5: stress so you can be more emotionally president and resonant

833
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 5: rather than being a hammer where every problem.

834
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 3: Is a nail. Right.

835
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 5: So yeah, and I think I think this book will

836
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 5: help clinicians understand that so they can meet them, meet

837
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 5: them where they are, and gradually work them kind of

838
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 5: down off the ledge, maybe literally, but also work them

839
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 5: down to where they are able to sort of manage

840
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 5: stressors much more effectively and prevent that from having a

841
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 5: generational impact on their kids.

842
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: You know, I would say that from the family unit standpoint,

843
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: I was more enthralled with my dad's job than my

844
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: dad would bring like that he would probably want me

845
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: to be.

846
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: In fact, I know it.

847
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm sorry I introduced you to all this

848
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: stuff at such a young age. And this was like

849
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: before he passed away in twenty thirteen. I was like,

850
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: I was like, why, Dad, I love it so much,

851
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: and he's like, that's why. And I was like, what's

852
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: he dropping on me right now?

853
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 6: Man?

854
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 3: What kind of knowledge is this?

855
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: What are you saying to me that I just you know,

856
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: I own a couple combat tactical stores. You know, they're

857
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: all decked out. I got a kill house that does

858
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: training inside of it. We do that every single day.

859
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 3: You know. I've just taken it to that.

860
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: I was indoctrinated at a young age into the SF lifestyle,

861
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: and so I just kind of, I don't know, I

862
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: just figured, hey, you know there's plate carriers and you know,

863
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: battle belts and all that stuff is available, So I

864
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: now sell it. I'm like, hey, I got my own armory.

865
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: Look at me, now, Dad, you had an armory. An armory.

866
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's the funniest thing. But you know, I

867
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: just have to say that he didn't really bring it home. Now,

868
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: that's not to say that. A friend of mine, he's

869
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: in his seventies now, his father was an army drill instructor, sergeant,

870
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: old school, right. If my guy's, for instance, his dad's older.

871
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: He said, my dad.

872
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: Would bring it home all day every day. I would

873
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: always get it. I would always have to line up,

874
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: I would always have to have this done. I'd always

875
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: have to do this as if he was one of

876
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: the soldiers. And so I do remember a conversation in

877
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: the house where my mom might have said, I am not.

878
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 3: One of your men. Uh huh. I think that did

879
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: get said somewhere in the house, and I was just.

880
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: Like, oh what, but I am what what? Where's dad?

881
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: You know?

882
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: But they were just having a conversation amongst themselves, and

883
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: so I am not one of your men because he

884
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: was bringing it something home.

885
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: He brought an element like.

886
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: Taking order or adhere to this or whatever the case was,

887
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: or why is it my suit pressed the right way or.

888
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: Something like that. I don't know.

889
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: Mom was never ever gonna say nothing bad to that,

890
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: and she just said, I'm not one of your men.

891
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 3: And I was just like, oh, so that's how I go.

892
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: So I think that kind of talks about bringing it home,

893
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, or not bringing it home, trying to separate

894
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: the punch in punch out, especially if you're active duty,

895
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: if you're twenty four to seven and you're a d

896
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: and you're at Parris Island all day or you're at MCRD.

897
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 3: I think it's what it's called again. It's all up

898
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 3: here raw. And then I love my devil dogs.

899
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: You just gotta know, you just gotta know, Okay, growing

900
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: up in an army household the green Berets. It was

901
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: always like, oh, you know, the first to die. They're

902
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: always the first to die. But having friends and growing

903
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: up and knowing Marines, I'm like, wow, you know, Marines

904
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: are bad ass. Okay, It's like, you guys are devil dogs.

905
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: The sharpest part of the blade that slices is what

906
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: you guys are.

907
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 3: That's what I can say.

908
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: And we have great uniforms, I think, so yeah, you know,

909
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: And that was always joked about in the house. You know,

910
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: all they look good because they die and they get

911
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: buried in it, you know.

912
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 3: Or my dad would always be like Army, you know,

913
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 3: Marine corps. That's just the way.

914
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: That's the taunts of each branch. But together, I promise you,

915
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: side by side, shoulders shoulder. He said that when there

916
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: was a problem, I would call the marines. He would

917
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: tell me that the Marines would come in and make

918
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: so much noise that they would just slip out underneath it.

919
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: And so I was just like, wow, what story is

920
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: that from dad? You know, where the Marines came in

921
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: and made a whole bunch of noise and you guys

922
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: just slipped on out.

923
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 6: You know.

924
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 4: I could imagine you as a as a child, be like,

925
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 4: what do they bang pots together?

926
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: And be like, I just I figured that everybody had

927
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: an M sixty and they're just making noise, you know,

928
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: just like making noise. And Dad his guys would just

929
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: like see you later. You know, it's like, yeah, he's

930
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: supposed to do.

931
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 4: This is one of the things. As much as we've

932
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 4: talked about like some of the the residual effects of

933
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: the military, I'll call it, there's so many beautiful aspects

934
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 4: of the military. And I use that term probably it's

935
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 4: I loved the military. It gave me structure, it gave

936
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 4: me a job, It gave me skills that I never

937
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 4: would have gained in the civilian world. Hands down, it

938
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 4: was I would never regret doing what I did, and

939
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 4: I loved it. And so I think that that's one

940
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 4: of the misnomers too, is that, yeah, there's some you know,

941
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 4: adaption hiccups when we get out and the things that

942
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 4: we've talked about. But I do want to kind of

943
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 4: give a shout out that the military has so many

944
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 4: benefits and so much training opportunities, and I mean it

945
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 4: basically paid for all of my doctorate. My gi build

946
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 4: it so yeah, it just kind of on the reverse

947
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 4: side saying the benefits of it. And and I think

948
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 4: that to your point we call it an outsider perspective

949
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 4: is that you're an outsider until we accept you into

950
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 4: our clan. And so same thing with mental health professionals,

951
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 4: like you're an outsider until you're not, and that trust

952
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 4: can once it's broken, you'll never regain it, like once

953
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 4: you know we tell you something, or if you have

954
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 4: no understanding the differences between branches of service on a

955
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 4: shallow level, like what's the difference between the Air Force

956
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 4: and the Marine Corps. If you can't give me some

957
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 4: descriptive noun or verb, that's that's going to be a

958
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 4: red flag. And that's going to be like you don't

959
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 4: know me, and you don't know my culture, and you're

960
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 4: definitely not gonna understand. I trained clinicians right now, and

961
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 4: one of the things I'll tell them is that if

962
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 4: a veteran or service member we used our humor, if

963
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 4: they laugh at something, you know, then my buddy got

964
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 4: shot and they start cracking up about it. You, as

965
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 4: a mental health professional, so to start laughing too, like

966
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 4: mimic that behavior, because a moment you're like appalled.

967
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: Like, oh no, we don't laugh at that.

968
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: You don't laugh at that, and they're like and then

969
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: they feel like, oh I can't laugh at that.

970
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: And I think it's kind of funny.

971
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: He got shot on the butt talks though, you see,

972
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: So it's kind of funny, right, It's like, right, yeah, right, right, right, So.

973
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: I love that, you know, and it's true.

974
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: So mental health professionals at the VA, where most veterans

975
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: wind up going, do you feel that they, other than

976
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: hearing the stories from other vets, have you know, are

977
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: they pretty dialed in?

978
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 3: You know?

979
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: Can there be some work where they maybe get your

980
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: book to have some more insight into the veteran that's

981
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: coming into them. I don't know what I'm asking. Maybe

982
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: a little more, you know, maybe like you, right, you

983
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: would be the doc that we would go see because

984
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: you've served, you've been in and now you're sitting here

985
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: and you can laugh with them because you think it's

986
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: funny too, and.

987
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 3: Maybe that's a little relatable. Maybe that's what I'm looking for. Right.

988
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: Maybe there's sometimes they go and sit down with someone

989
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: and they're sitting in a chair and they're like, hey,

990
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: go go ahead and tell me, what's your problems?

991
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 4: Are they in the book They're like, you know, like I.

992
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 3: Don't have any problems, and like why are you here?

993
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: You're like, well, why am I here? Well, maybe I'll leave,

994
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 3: and then.

995
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: They just leave and they don't ever get to like

996
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: really open up. And you know, it's it takes someone

997
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable to have to open up to somebody

998
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: that they may not have ever met, never served with,

999
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: didn't go through the same processes with. But that person

1000
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: on the other side is there to listen to you

1001
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: and hear you out in a professional six sigma kind

1002
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: of way. And what six sigma is is it's like

1003
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: math of words, and so they're listening to what you're

1004
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 1: saying to them, and they're just kind of maybe jotting

1005
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: down some things and just you know, aligning them with

1006
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: different I don't know, graphs that they might have for

1007
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: their own, you know, field of expertise and saying, hey,

1008
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: this person mentioned kill seventy seven times, but they were

1009
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: laughing the whole time.

1010
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 3: That goes over into this column.

1011
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: You know, it's like even though they're a marine, and

1012
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 1: that's the way they say yes, yes, right, yes.

1013
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 4: I think to your point, I cautious about what I'm

1014
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 4: saying in this moment, because we all could have different

1015
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 4: opinions about, you know, the aftercare that veterans can receive.

1016
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 4: I think that this book for anyone who works with

1017
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 4: this population, whether you're a noviced or you know, you're

1018
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 4: an expert in the field, it's going to impact you

1019
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 4: in some way. And that's how we wrote it. It

1020
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: has enough in their meat potatoes that someone doesn't matter

1021
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 4: what how long you've been doing this, is going to

1022
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 4: grab something from it. And I think that there's a

1023
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 4: lot of areas that can be improved upon within the

1024
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 4: VA mental health system. But I think as a mental

1025
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 4: health professionals in general, the research is kind of smattered

1026
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 4: right now. We're kind of a Petri dish of let's

1027
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 4: try this, and let's try this. I know that I

1028
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: can see that firsthand and some of the things I'm

1029
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 4: working with the Ukrainian clinicians and how we're trying to

1030
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 4: treat the military and Ukraine right very different from the

1031
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 4: US military culturally, not just that's a whole different conversation,

1032
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 4: but they have a very limited career military. They have

1033
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 4: some draftees, some conscripts, and some volunteers. That changes that

1034
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 4: desire for which you're serving, changes the outcome for the

1035
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 4: things you experience and the attachment you make to it.

1036
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 4: But with the VA in particular, I think that any organization,

1037
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 4: any nonprofit, anyone who has any hands in the cookie

1038
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 4: jar dealing with military veterans or service members need to

1039
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 4: have this book and needs to kind of do a

1040
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 4: deep dive into it because we go through different modalities

1041
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 4: that are effective research based, what cultural aspects can detract

1042
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 4: from certain modalities or certain efficacies and treatment options medications

1043
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 4: as veterans. It's a crazy It blows my mind that

1044
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 4: the efficacy of medications aren't as effective for veterans as

1045
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 4: they are for their civilian counterpart, and we don't know

1046
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 4: that why. And I'm asking that question throughout this book,

1047
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 4: and we're giving a lot of knowledge, especially in the

1048
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 4: pharmaceuticology and the treatment sections back.

1049
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: Like psychotropic style drugs or like you know, I have

1050
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: some Navy seals that come on the show and talk

1051
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: about a two week process of taking someone with you know,

1052
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: traumatic post traumatic stress or you know a lot of

1053
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: symptoms of that, and they've screened them for two weeks

1054
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: off site and then they take him into like Chili,

1055
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, south of the border, and then they might

1056
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: go into like an ayahuasca situation or.

1057
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 3: They might get yeah oh yeah, yeah yeah.

1058
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: This is like you know, everybody's looking for a way, yes, yes, right,

1059
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: And they're like, hey, you know, we're tired of taking pharma.

1060
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: You know, that's and like a mantra here at soft

1061
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: Rep is thrills before pills, and so you know it's like,

1062
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: what can you do? You not take the pill? Now?

1063
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 3: Do I take a pill?

1064
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I take a statin for my widow maker in

1065
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: my heart at forty seven.

1066
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 3: And so I have to take it. So I take it.

1067
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: Okay, But ninety nine percent of everything else is in

1068
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: the gym, on the mountain, snowboarding, you know, constantly moving, swimming.

1069
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: I mentioned swimming is a great relaxation method for you.

1070
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, you think you're gonna drown and you live.

1071
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: You're like, ah, air, oh, it's so fun in here,

1072
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: you splashing the water. Okay, look, it is what it is, right,

1073
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: it's just thrills before pills.

1074
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: Now.

1075
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: You know, they're like, oh, maybe I'll try psilocybin. You know,

1076
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: maybe cannabis isn't the right thing. For you, or maybe

1077
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: it is the right thing for you.

1078
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: Right.

1079
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: It's not a one percent save all medicinal use, but

1080
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: it might help you. It might pull something out of you.

1081
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: So you kind of just need to go down the

1082
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: right path. And I mean, I'm just I'm thrills before pills.

1083
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: So the more the less pills, the more thrill you know,

1084
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: I think that you know mental health. I guess I'll

1085
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: also say this my employees. They see me on the

1086
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: mountain in the morning because I get up super early

1087
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: six am and get up there through a blizzard. I

1088
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: write tell about eleven am, and then I'm back at

1089
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: work at twelve twelve thirty in the afternoon, just about

1090
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: every day during the snowboard season. And they see that

1091
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, what are you doing for your

1092
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: mental health?

1093
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 3: Guys?

1094
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: I said, you know, And I'll go live on Instagram

1095
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I'm up here, I'm snowboarding mental health day.

1096
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: Don't forget if you have a sick day or PTO,

1097
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: just say I'm using it and you may see me

1098
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: on the mountain, but that's a mental health day for me.

1099
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 3: Oh.

1100
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: I thought Rad took off the day because he was sick.

1101
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: I thought he wasn't supposed to be on the mountain

1102
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: snowboarding today. Now, man, I'm sick of work.

1103
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 3: How about that? How about that? How about how about I.

1104
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: Need a mental health day for myself, and so I

1105
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: use my PTO not because I have the flu or

1106
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: because my appendix burst, but because I just need to

1107
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: go do something for myself.

1108
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: A mental health day.

1109
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 4: No, and that's it. Body emotion stays in motion and

1110
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 4: you clean out the the toxicity of stress when you

1111
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 4: were in motion. I would also add just adding that

1112
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 4: community around you, finding those warriors out there, that those

1113
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 4: battle buddies having that purpose. Sam and I are both

1114
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 4: going to be working with the military. I work with

1115
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 4: them right now, he will be working with them in

1116
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 4: the future. We found our purpose and giving back and

1117
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 4: also within those those coping skills that worked with us

1118
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 4: in the military. How therapeutic did you feel when you

1119
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 4: were on that twenty mile rucksack height with one hundred

1120
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 4: and thirty pounds on your back, So.

1121
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 3: Like that was therapy therapeutic? Yeah?

1122
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: Right, but you did that. You're so hard, that's so cool,

1123
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: You're so badass. I just want to let you know

1124
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: that salute to you right there Okay, I just want

1125
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: to say that's I've been at the base of the

1126
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: Reaper at Penalty Yes, yeah, right, because I was doing

1127
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: war games at Range one three one, which is just

1128
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: at the base of the Reaper right there, and I

1129
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: was with the master guns. He's like, hey, Rod, you

1130
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: want to go walk up it a little bit and

1131
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: check it out? And I was like, yeah, dude, you know,

1132
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: let's do this right. You have to be a marine

1133
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: to do this right. And he's like, well, you know,

1134
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: we got people wives, they go up and down all

1135
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: the time, but you know, yeah, most of the time.

1136
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: You got to be a marine to go up and

1137
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: down this, right. And I was like, all right, So dude,

1138
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: it's literally like this incline that we're basically almost doing

1139
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: mountain climbers if you're down on the ground.

1140
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 4: If you know that move and jamming climb.

1141
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a ladder. And I said, hey, master guns.

1142
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: He's like what And I was like, do you think

1143
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: this little rock right here and the dirt has been

1144
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: stepped on by a million marines?

1145
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I was like, can I have it? And

1146
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 3: he's like yeah.

1147
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: And so I sat there and I started excavating out

1148
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: this little pebble that I thought I was just gonna

1149
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: keep in my pocket. It turned out to be this

1150
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: like giant rock that was in the ground. And he's

1151
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: all watching me, and I'm just like, I'm gonna get it.

1152
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it. I'm just like carving out this

1153
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: rock out of the reaper. That rock, though, I want

1154
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: you to know, it sits at my shop in Leyton,

1155
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: on a shelf right behind my cash register. And I

1156
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: look back at this red rock with dust still on

1157
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: it from being pulled out of the Reaper. And I

1158
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: look at it and I smell it, and I set

1159
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: it back down, and then Marines walk in. I'll say, oh,

1160
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: you want to see something from your your childhood, your past. Huh,

1161
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: I'll say, you see this rock right here.

1162
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 3: Look, I never want to go there again. I don't

1163
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 3: ever want to see that rock. You know.

1164
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you had to get you know, you

1165
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: go up that hill.

1166
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: It's such a you're awesome.

1167
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 4: I just want to say, you know, It's the fun

1168
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 4: part is when the pact are so heavy that you

1169
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 4: can't stand up straight. If you do, you kind of

1170
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 4: turtle or the packs are the size of you. Because

1171
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 4: I'm only five foot two.

1172
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, my best friend went in at

1173
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: five to two. He's five foot two. Yeah, and I

1174
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: have a picture of him in my backpack.

1175
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 4: Ah little guy, yeah yeah, yeah.

1176
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.

1177
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: And the Army wouldn't take him because he was color blind,

1178
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: and he all he wanted to do was be a

1179
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: cop in the army. And he's like, they won't take me.

1180
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: And then someone's like, why don't you try the Marine Corps.

1181
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: So they said we'll take you, and you know, they

1182
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: turned him into Infantry three eleven. Sent me he sent

1183
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: me a picture with his ruck on and all ready

1184
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: to go, Like in the mirror, it's like this much

1185
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: bigger than him.

1186
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 3: I'm six foot.

1187
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: Five, yes, so you can imagine him in my backpack. Okay,

1188
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm six five. He's five to two, but to me,

1189
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: he's ten feet tall. And I will always see him

1190
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: as just like this badass who just said nothing can

1191
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: stop me. Colorblind didn't stop him. He went in and

1192
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: cocooned himself into an O three eleven Marine Corps guy,

1193
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: and now he is doing really well in law enforcement.

1194
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 3: Go believe it or not. Color blind do they know

1195
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: that I'm not saying his name but anyways, you don't no, and.

1196
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: So and so and so, Sam, you went Navy or

1197
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: did you go Marine Corps first?

1198
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 6: Marine Corps first?

1199
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you did the hump too. You know.

1200
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 4: I will tease him about this because has been to

1201
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 4: Naval Academy, God bless them. They are four education. I

1202
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 4: went to OS a different experience.

1203
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 3: We do not go to CS.

1204
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 4: They do not.

1205
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 6: For four years. No, no, we we have the Naval Academy.

1206
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 5: You have four years of wearing like Navy uniforms and

1207
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 5: doing all of their indoctrination and you get training in

1208
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 5: like Marine Corps history and customs and courtesies.

1209
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 6: Along along the way. But like it's the.

1210
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 5: Only commissioning source for the Marine Corps. I'm aware of

1211
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 5: where you do not have to go to Marine Corps

1212
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 5: o CS.

1213
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so is that Annapolis? Is that where you went?

1214
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 3: Is that the Naval Annapolis? Right?

1215
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 4: And then we don't go to they don't go to OCS,

1216
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 4: the Officer Candidate School the rest of us have to

1217
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 4: go through. But we do meet up at the Basic

1218
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 4: School TBS and that's six months long unless you get

1219
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 4: injured or recycled or something. But that's in the field

1220
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 4: for a week. Out of the field for a week.

1221
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 4: You're basically learning how to be an infantry platoon commander,

1222
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 4: and then you go to your molst school after that,

1223
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 4: your job school after that. So there is you're in

1224
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 4: training for about a year and a half before you

1225
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 4: even see the fleet within the officer side of the

1226
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 4: Marine Corps, before you're even c Marines or more. Sam

1227
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: was two and a half years of highlight school.

1228
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: Did you ever wear the Marine Corps colors at Annapolis

1229
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 1: or did you always wear the whites and stuff like

1230
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: top gun?

1231
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 3: Oh?

1232
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 5: You you wore like all the Navy uniforms pretty much

1233
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 5: up until like the individuals selected like the Marine Corps track,

1234
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 5: and then there was like maybe a day here and

1235
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 5: there where they would let you wear like the Marine

1236
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 5: Corps camis just with us Navy on. I'm just so

1237
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 5: you feel good about yourself. But no, until you commissioned,

1238
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 5: you didn't unless you were doing like a uniform fitting

1239
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 5: or something like that, Like you didn't, you didn't wear it.

1240
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: So they were really flexing the Department of the Navy

1241
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: on you guys. Okay, yeah, paycheck, says Department of the Navy.

1242
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right.

1243
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 5: So two thousand and seven when I commissioned is when

1244
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 5: I first officially wore the uniform as an active duty Marine.

1245
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 5: Yeah so, and then hung it up in twenty three

1246
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 5: to shift over to the Navy.

1247
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 6: So I wish I wouldn't have thrown away all my

1248
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 6: other names.

1249
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 3: Oh bro, yeah, I got.

1250
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 6: To buy them all again.

1251
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: Oh no, I still got my dad's pea coat. It

1252
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: will not fit me ever, but I still have that

1253
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 1: from nom.

1254
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. He went Navy, then Green Beret after Vietnam. So

1255
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 3: it was like this, that's awesome.

1256
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, flip flop thing for him. Just couldn't get enough.

1257
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: I suppose so Morse code was his major.

1258
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 3: He knew all of the language.

1259
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: So I just want to say, you guys have just

1260
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: been a really great calming conversation to have. I don't

1261
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: even feel like you know I'm talking about a book

1262
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: with you. There's a book involved in this conversation, and

1263
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it's just for clinicians, right, I think

1264
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: it's for anybody who wants to have some insight into

1265
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: how to maybe even address their spouse or their significant other,

1266
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: or their brother or their sister.

1267
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 3: You know.

1268
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: So if they just took this book and just decided

1269
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: to read some of it and gain some insights. Read

1270
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: three chapters of it, two chapters of it, flip through it,

1271
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: open it up and say, oh, what's this chapter about?

1272
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 3: Oh what did the chapter before that? Actually say?

1273
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: You know, just like I said at the beginning with

1274
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: the book club at Soft Rep, it's the gym, right,

1275
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: Your brain needs a gym, and a book is a gym.

1276
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: So if you can just read it, put some knowledge

1277
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: into it, and just to.

1278
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 3: Say, hey, so deployment was crappy.

1279
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: Haa, right, just laugh with them, Okay, just laugh with them, right.

1280
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: Just I think that everybody should probably pick up this

1281
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: book check it out, definitely, you know, for psychologists and

1282
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 1: everybody in that field where you're coming from, with that

1283
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: being in the lane your expertise, they should all have it.

1284
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 3: But again, I mean, this is something that my mom.

1285
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: Probably have read already, and my dad comes home and

1286
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:05,439
Speaker 1: she's just gonna like tornado him into just a niceness guy,

1287
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, like.

1288
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 3: Oh, hey Jack, Hey, how's it going. Yeah?

1289
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: Love is here, we're loving? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read

1290
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: the book. No, I know, how's your trauma today? How's

1291
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: your trauma? You know, without saying so right, she would

1292
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: just have that in her repertoire. So you know, the book,

1293
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: if I can say it correctly, is Unseen Warrior. Is

1294
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: that what we just need to look up as Unseen

1295
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: Warrior or is it the whole title Unseen Warrior A

1296
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: military Cultural Guide for Mental Health Professionals.

1297
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 4: So if you go to Amazon, you have to put

1298
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 4: in the exact title as it's written, Unseen Warrior colon

1299
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 4: UH mental Health Guide, Cultural Guide for Mental Health Professionals.

1300
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 4: If you go to Kendall Hunt Publishing, they have a

1301
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 4: little search tab and if you just look up Unseen

1302
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 4: Kendall Hunt will have it right there as well.

1303
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: Kendall Hunt Publishing, right, just like that, Kendall Hunt, there's

1304
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: the book right here. It was just so easy, just

1305
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: went right to it as she was talking. And it

1306
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: has all of the breakdown, the table of contents. I

1307
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: think it even has a format, yeah, print package ebook.

1308
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: So if you want this on your kindle or you

1309
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: want to have a sense to your e book, you

1310
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: can get it immediately. It has your bios exactly, it

1311
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: has all of the table of contents.

1312
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 4: And the e book itself, and also the physical copy

1313
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 4: of the book will have QR codes in front of

1314
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 4: every single chapter. Which you'll be able to see me

1315
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 4: Sam and doctor Hou explaining the chapter, giving a little

1316
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 4: bit more content to the chapter or context to the chapter.

1317
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 4: The deployment chapter features myself and my husband, and it

1318
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 4: also features my best friend who deployed in three four

1319
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 4: and oh five through the push. So every single video

1320
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 4: has or my co authors. I have two co authors,

1321
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 4: Mary Tatum and Holly Baron. They are both military spouses.

1322
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 4: They wrote a chapter in there, and they also do

1323
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 4: QR codes, so they'll be able to tell you more

1324
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 4: about their experience as I love that.

1325
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: That's very cool. It's very interactive. Yeah, right, so you

1326
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: can just scan the QR code, it'll pop up. You

1327
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: already got your phone or your kindle, well if it's

1328
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,679
Speaker 1: if it's on a kindle, can you scan the QR code.

1329
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 4: If it's digital, the videos will already be plugged in there.

1330
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 3: Oh I see.

1331
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 4: If it's a physical copy, like I'm old school and

1332
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 4: I like physical, you can scan it with your phone

1333
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 4: and the video will pop up.

1334
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: Okay, very cool, very cool, And that is again the

1335
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: exact title. We'll have that described down below. My producer callum,

1336
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: will you put that in a dissertation down there and

1337
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: a link as well, So if anybody watching this or

1338
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: listening to this, excuse me, go ahead just click on

1339
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: it and go check out the book. It's called Unseen Warrior,

1340
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: A Military Cultural Guide for Mental Health Professionals by Jessica Bainey,

1341
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: Samuel Francis za Zany, and Charles W. Hoague the doctor

1342
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: who's doctoring. Yes, you got it, And I just want

1343
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 1: to say thank you. We've had you for over an

1344
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: hour on the show. It's been real easy to talk

1345
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: with you. There's just so much more that I would

1346
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 1: like to just like, there's just so much more that

1347
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: is involved in this. You guys have just really we've

1348
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: just scraped the frost, I don't know, off the tip

1349
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: of the iceberg, you know. I'm just like, there's so

1350
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:20,480
Speaker 1: much more. So check out this book. If you are vulnerable,

1351
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: go talk to a healthcare professional and let them know

1352
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,600
Speaker 1: that you have some thoughts and that you want to

1353
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: get them off your chest with them and just see

1354
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: what they can do for you. Don't be afraid. I've

1355
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: had people reach out to me through social media on

1356
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 1: Instagram with dire problems. I'm like, what can I do

1357
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 1: for you?

1358
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 3: You know?

1359
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: And so we're all here in some way to say

1360
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: what can I do for you? And I hope that

1361
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: this show has reached you, the listener that really needed

1362
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: to hear it, and you've taken us up on checking

1363
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: this book out or just reaching out and seeking some help.

1364
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: We love you and we want you to know that

1365
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 1: you are good enough and dog Gonnet people do like you.

1366
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 3: Okay. So, in the words of Stuart Smalley.

1367
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: On behalf of Jessica and Sam and the doctor who's doctoring,

1368
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 1: doctor Hoague, Colonel, I just want to say thank you

1369
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: so much for being on the show. I want everyone

1370
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: to go check out your book. It's on Amazon, and

1371
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 1: definitely if you're in the profession of you know, working

1372
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: with people and psychology and everything, go check out this book.

1373
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 1: These two have put a lot of work into it

1374
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: and a lot of passion and I hope you get

1375
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: that from this conversation. And I just want to say

1376
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: thanks for being on the show.

1377
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 4: You too, thank you, thank you, We appreciate it.

1378
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 6: Thanks appreciate it.

1379
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and good luck with you and finishing your PhDs

1380
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: and finishing all of this stuff. And if you ever

1381
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: want to be back on the show, you have an

1382
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 1: open invite and a platform here to reach out to

1383
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: the community through soft rep.

1384
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 3: I just want to let you know.

1385
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: That, okay, because nobody's oblivious to any of this. It's

1386
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: all around us.

1387
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 3: So thank you so much.

1388
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: And again, I know I said I was going to

1389
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: end it before, but now I'm really going to do it.

1390
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: Go check out the book club soft reap dot com,

1391
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: Forward slash Book hyphen Club, Go check out the merch store,

1392
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,720
Speaker 1: and if you got any questions, find me on Instagram

1393
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: or wherever I'm at and I'll.

1394
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 3: Say hi to you. Okay. And with that, this is

1395
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 3: Rat saying peace.

1396
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: You've been listening to your self.

1397
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: Rep Ladi