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Speaker 1: Dirk Durham. Here, I'm being your host again for another

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Speaker 1: episode of Cutting the Distance. You listen to one of

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Speaker 1: our previous episodes. I had my good buddy Tom Schneider,

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Speaker 1: and we sat down and we start talking about rifle

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Speaker 1: elk hunting post rut, and we got into the weeds

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Speaker 1: a little bit on longray shooting. What to do when

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Speaker 1: you hear a bull elk bugling in October and you

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Speaker 1: got a rifle in your hands. And then after we

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Speaker 1: record the podcast, we kind of laughed a little bit

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Speaker 1: and said, man, we just didn't get deep enough. So

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Speaker 1: this is a bonus episode. This is a second episode,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to continue that conversation of what if

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Speaker 1: the bulls are not bugling? What now? How do we

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Speaker 1: proceed with that? So welcome back, Tom, Thank you, Tom.

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Speaker 1: Give one. Give it just another brief description of who

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Speaker 1: you are. In case nobody's listened to the first episode.

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Speaker 1: Tom operates the Stuck in the Rut YouTube channel and

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Speaker 1: social media. Him and his family very accomplished hunters and

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Speaker 1: they film their hunts so they put them on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, you have to check it out.

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Speaker 1: I feel like maybe you've lived under a Rock if

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, because they've got a really big following,

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Speaker 1: lots of really good viral videos on hunting all species

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Speaker 1: of North American game and Tom tell us just a

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Speaker 1: tiny bit about yourself and then we're gonna move right

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Speaker 1: back into the absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, he covered most of it with me being

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Speaker 2: stuck in rut. You know, I think kind of just

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Speaker 2: the best, the simplest way to explain my family and

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Speaker 2: how we are. But we just we work all year,

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Speaker 2: we have our jobs, but we've made hunting a priority

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Speaker 2: in our life where every year, if you I mean

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Speaker 2: I have, it's myself, oh, the brother Travis, my sister

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Speaker 2: Tan and my little brother Trevor. We've all made it

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Speaker 2: a priority in our life to to take off hunting

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Speaker 2: season every single year to hunt. You know, we don't work,

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Speaker 2: We work hard so that we can do that. And

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of that I kind of go

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Speaker 2: back to my dad multiple times because he owned the

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Speaker 2: logging company growing up, and you know, he made a

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Speaker 2: priority to take off hunting season and the hunt. And

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Speaker 2: now do we live the ninety five type job. No,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of times in the week where we

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Speaker 2: work fifty to sixty hours a week. But we do

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Speaker 2: that so that we can have fun. That really for me,

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Speaker 2: that that's my drive, like I you know, that's what

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Speaker 2: keeps me working, That's what keeps me making money. Is

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Speaker 2: my hobby, you know. And I'm really fortunate where I

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Speaker 2: live to where that's just the fact. You know, we

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Speaker 2: travel a lot to hunt. We've talked about that. We're

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Speaker 2: if you listen to the last podcast, we talked about Alaska.

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Speaker 2: Hunt Alaska a lot. My sister brother in law live

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Speaker 2: up there, so we have a lot of hunting up

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Speaker 2: or tuning up there as well. But living down here

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Speaker 2: in Idaho, we do have a lot of opportunity here too.

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Speaker 2: We're surrounded by three different mountain ranges and we have

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Speaker 2: a lot of different species of animals to hunt. And

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Speaker 2: you know, for me as a resident, I can buy

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Speaker 2: attack over the counter. I could hunt to shoot. In September,

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Speaker 2: I could have it's almost like anything goes right like

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Speaker 2: I could in September. I could have an elk tag

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Speaker 2: archerie elk tag archie deer tag which is mealy or whitetail.

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Speaker 2: I could have a black bear tag and wolf tags. Man,

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Speaker 2: I can get quite a bit of those. If you want,

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Speaker 2: how many do you want? I told you to pick

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Speaker 2: up another one just in case, because usually the tough

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Speaker 2: thing about it is when you're wolf hunting, immediately get

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Speaker 2: off topics sometimes, but if you call it a wolf pack,

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Speaker 2: there's usually more of than one that comes in. When

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Speaker 2: Dirt came up here, he's like, yeah, I got one

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Speaker 2: wolf tack, Like, we got to run to the store

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Speaker 2: to get another one just in case. Because I can't

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Speaker 2: tell you how many times I had friends are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: shot a wolf, but then the other wolf was just

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Speaker 2: walking around and I couldn't shoot it because I have

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Speaker 2: another tag. It's like, yeah, So for me, I've just

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Speaker 2: learned to buy more than one wolf tag. And then

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Speaker 2: if you get close to that number and then buy more, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: as idahope for you, I love this state.

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Speaker 1: That's really smart. That was really smart advice. So we

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about you know, calling, you know, how

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Speaker 1: if you hear a bul bugling in our first episode.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you guys, you know, look back to my

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Speaker 1: previous episode. It'd probably be a couple episodes ago where

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Speaker 1: Tom and I talk about if you hear a bull

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Speaker 1: bugling in October and how to approach that. Now let's

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Speaker 1: go a little deeper into the post rut. So now

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Speaker 1: elk are not talking, and sometimes, you know, especially in

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Speaker 1: big timber country, you would almost argue there's no elk

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Speaker 1: here at all, especially in an area that has low

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Speaker 1: elk densities. How are you locating those elk and then

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Speaker 1: how are you like hunting them once you found them.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question, and I definitely recommend anyone to

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Speaker 2: go back to the other podcast where we are talking about.

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Speaker 2: You know, it goes back to understanding the behavior of

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Speaker 2: the elk first, because now you know we did talk

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Speaker 2: about Okay, if you got a bowl buglin, this is

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Speaker 2: how i'd approach it. But the majority of the post

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Speaker 2: ra hunt, you're not going to have elk talking. Now,

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Speaker 2: it's great if you have glassing opportunity, but if it's

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Speaker 2: an area I don't care how open it is, If

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Speaker 2: it's an area where it's a public land easy tag

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Speaker 2: to get to achieve, These elk figure out hunting pressure

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Speaker 2: quick and they will pull into places that you you

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Speaker 2: will never know. If you really don't know elk, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to know how to find them.

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Speaker 2: So it really goes back to understanding the behavior of

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Speaker 2: the elk, you know, going back to the groceries, their

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Speaker 2: shelter and their safety, and if there's anything you want

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Speaker 2: to add to that, let me know. But that's what

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Speaker 2: I always look at with animals. The one thing you

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Speaker 2: and I both talked about is that a big bull

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Speaker 2: he puts safety a priority over other things. Now, sure,

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Speaker 2: there could be one side of the mountain where there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of food, right, there could be a lot

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Speaker 2: of brows, you can find cows, you can see rag

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Speaker 2: bulls there, but it's like, where did that big bull

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Speaker 2: go during archery season? He's gone out in order to

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Speaker 2: find him that big bowl will put safety as a

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Speaker 2: priority over the groceries and the shelter. Now what I

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Speaker 2: mean shelter shelter. I'm talking more like weather. You know,

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Speaker 2: we need a shelter. We have a home. Now, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean we're safe that we're in a home. It's

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Speaker 2: just the fact that you know, this is our shelter.

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Speaker 2: You know, it rains, it snows, there's elk behave differently

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Speaker 2: on a hot sunny day than they do in the wintertime. Now,

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Speaker 2: even the hot sunny days that they need shelter for

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Speaker 2: that right, they're going to hang out on a north

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Speaker 2: facing slope. They're going to hang out a nice cool draw.

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Speaker 2: They're not going to be sbedded down most likely on

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Speaker 2: a sell facing slope when it's ninety five degrees they

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Speaker 2: need to stake. So that just goes back to understanding

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Speaker 2: the behavior of the elk, and now what I like

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Speaker 2: to do. And it's again it goes back to me

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Speaker 2: growing up. I grew up around elk. I watched elk.

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Speaker 2: I watch what elk do in the wintertime in their

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Speaker 2: wain and range. I watch them where they drop their antlers,

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Speaker 2: watch them whether it's summer, and sometimes in that timber country,

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Speaker 2: is like, well, how do you do that? Well? Trail camps,

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Speaker 2: you know, finding those areas where these bulls are hanging out.

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Speaker 2: Trail camps really important. It could be corridors, it could

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Speaker 2: be wallows, anything. It's just setting a lot of trail

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Speaker 2: cams out doing your homework. The one thing I've learned

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Speaker 2: is that these bulls aren't hanging out where these cows are.

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Speaker 2: In the early parts right before September kicks and right,

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Speaker 2: we've talked about you, and I mean again, we've had

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Speaker 2: this week in the past three days. We've talked a

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Speaker 2: lot about this and things that we've learned about Elk.

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Speaker 2: We've just been geeking out over Elk week with ELK.

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Speaker 2: We've noticed this where like Travis and I had an

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Speaker 2: area and it was probably about i'd like to say

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Speaker 2: as the crow flies. It is four miles apart. We

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Speaker 2: had one area where we had a troil cam in

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Speaker 2: the other herea we had another. This one particular spot,

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Speaker 2: we had bacher group of bulls. It was probably four

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Speaker 2: or five bulls that were hanging out. The other one

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Speaker 2: it was cows all summer long. It was one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest learning curves I had, because I can't tell

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Speaker 2: you how many friends I've had. They're like, I had

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Speaker 2: this big, monster velvet bull. As soon as it went

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Speaker 2: Hardharning just disappeared. I don't even know where he's at anymore. Well,

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Speaker 2: in this particular area, these Bocher bulls also disappeared in

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Speaker 2: the month of September, and they all started showing up

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Speaker 2: on my trail cameras where the cows were. It almost

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Speaker 2: sounds basic, right, It's like, wow, that's pretty obvious. But

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Speaker 2: some people it's just sometimes like we forget, like the

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Speaker 2: most simple things, and those bulls moved back to where

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Speaker 2: the cows are, Yeah, and that's where they'll go and

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Speaker 2: to breathe the cows in the fire them. Now, now

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Speaker 2: we're going back to the post runt, right, And sometimes

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Speaker 2: in the early parts of October, you still catch these

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Speaker 2: bulls biaglin, even a big bull. It could sometimes even

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Speaker 2: be the first couple of gun shots that will go off.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you'll see a big bull just disappear.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like if there was in this is

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Speaker 2: I just noticed this in areas, if there was no

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Speaker 2: hunting rifle pressure, no rifles shots going off, those big bulls,

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Speaker 2: they'll still kind of hanging out around the cows, and

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Speaker 2: they'll still bring a cow here and there if she

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Speaker 2: goes back in the astress. But as soon as the

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Speaker 2: rifles seem kick, it's almost like there's like screwed, Like

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Speaker 2: most of the cows have been bred, I've done most

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Speaker 2: of my work. They just disappear completely. It could be

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Speaker 2: day two in the hunt. They're gone, and now you

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Speaker 2: got cows and rag bulls. So most of the time

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Speaker 2: during this rifle season, people are after, oh, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: just shooting rag bulls. So when we're talking about post

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Speaker 2: right out. I'm not going to talk about just regular ragbulls.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about cows. I'm actually going

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Speaker 2: to talk about where to be big her bulls go.

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Speaker 2: Where do they hang out? And you'll find out they'll

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Speaker 2: pull themselves in a hole where they feel safe. In

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Speaker 2: some cases, if they don't get snow at least where

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Speaker 2: eye hunt at least, they will actually pull back in

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Speaker 2: those original basins again, and they'll show up for a

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Speaker 2: short period of time. Like I was telling you about

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Speaker 2: that game camera, all of sudden, those cows, those bulls

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Speaker 2: no longer are there, so they'd move back to that

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Speaker 2: other trail camera and then they show up period period

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Speaker 2: of time. Now, if the snow starts getting deep, they

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Speaker 2: pull out and they're gone. The other thing that was

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Speaker 2: really interesting though, is sometimes they'd pull out before the

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Speaker 2: snow hit, and that was like, Okay, well, why are

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Speaker 2: they doing that? Why are they pulling out of the

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Speaker 2: high country when the snow didn't hit. Well, the weather

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Speaker 2: got cool and the frost kicked in, and now a

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Speaker 2: lot of that food sources disappeared. Right, we're back to

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Speaker 2: talking about the groceries. All the leaves on the brush

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Speaker 2: that they really like to have, if that's that mountain

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Speaker 2: ash or anything like that, Like all those leaves fall

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Speaker 2: off the brush. As soon as that happens, they're out

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Speaker 2: of the high country. And again it's it's going back

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Speaker 2: to like not okay, they do this, So that's where

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Speaker 2: I'm going. I'm going to follow them. It's like, why

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Speaker 2: did they do that? I'm always asking why. Okay, that's

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Speaker 2: why they elk left that high country because we got

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Speaker 2: a frost. And then a couple of weeks later, now

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Speaker 2: now that the leaves all fell out of the brush,

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Speaker 2: if it's all there's mountain ash, that waxy leaves and noses, well,

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Speaker 2: they it holds its brush, but it's a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: They pull into a different area. They move out to

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Speaker 2: where the food source is. And and actually kind of

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Speaker 2: sorry and I did breaking up black sea noses that

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Speaker 2: Actually it's the opposite we were talking about that where

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Speaker 2: it curls up and it actually creates the opposite effect

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Speaker 2: where now animals where we're at just they thrive on

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Speaker 2: that brush because the sugars go to the ends. And

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Speaker 2: so I also understanding what their groceries are and why

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Speaker 2: it does what it does for me being and I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of it happens where my knowledge comes

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Speaker 2: with brush and tree ease is the fact that I

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Speaker 2: grew up. We talked a little bit about me working

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Speaker 2: in construction, but the majority of my life I've been

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Speaker 2: in forest management. From logging the clearing land.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Different species of trees, shrubs, and so understanding that alone

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Speaker 2: can help you understand oak behavior. That really helped me

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Speaker 2: out a lot, and and understanding what brush does, what's

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Speaker 2: eating on the brush, And so I'll I'll see a

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Speaker 2: species of brush and I'll see white tailed meal there

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Speaker 2: or elk in the area, but they're not touching that brush. Well,

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Speaker 2: I know for a fact that that's not a brush

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Speaker 2: they like to feed on. Right, we were talking about

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Speaker 2: bear grass, right, remember that, we're like, oh, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about like do you notice that, Like animals just don't

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Speaker 2: hit bear grass. Will eat that stem out of the center,

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Speaker 2: but they won't hardly ever eat bear of grass. Now again,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, that's one thing. I don't know why

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Speaker 2: they don't like bear grass, Just animals don't like eating it.

250
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Speaker 2: So beargrass doesn't hold an animal in the mountains. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't even I talked about my horses meals they take,

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Speaker 2: won't buite out of it because I think they're just deceived, like, oh, grass,

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Speaker 2: take a bite and they're like, oh, I'll never do

254
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Speaker 2: that again. And a mule will just about eat anything.

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Speaker 2: They browse brush just like a moose. Right, So I

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Speaker 2: understand that's really important too. Is their food source, so

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Speaker 2: so that I'll try to break it down. And is

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Speaker 2: there anything you want to add yet on that? No,

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Speaker 2: I agree with everything you're saying there, Okay, So now

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Speaker 2: I'll try to break it down. So understand the groceries

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Speaker 2: right there, understand the brush. You know, I just explained

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Speaker 2: a lot about why they elk leave the high country,

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Speaker 2: especially when their main food sources, those leaves, those luscious

264
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Speaker 2: leads the higher elevation, sometimes that grass loses it's and

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Speaker 2: it that depends on the terrain too, because if I

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Speaker 2: go to Wyoming, this grass is like they're actually still

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Speaker 2: good even though they turn yellow stuff. The elk will

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Speaker 2: still feet on that as long as they can are

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Speaker 2: rat especially.

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Speaker 1: Once it kind of starts raining. Yeah, that bunch grass

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Speaker 1: they I hope really start like they start eating that

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Speaker 1: bunch grass once it starts raining.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and so it really depends on the train you're

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Speaker 2: at and what they're feeding on in the area. So

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Speaker 2: understand that's really important. And then now let's talk We

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Speaker 2: talked about shelter right snow when the snow starts kicking

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Speaker 2: kicking in. We've talked a lot about snow conditions, and

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Speaker 2: that is one thing a lot of people don't understand.

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Speaker 2: We talked about the difference between deep snow light snow.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that's all that comes in somebody's mind is the

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Speaker 2: snow gets deep, the animals pull out. They don't understand

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Speaker 2: the difference and how animals behave with powdered snow or

283
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Speaker 2: crusty snow, and the same with meal deer. Crusty snow

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Speaker 2: is hard for an animal to get food source, get

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Speaker 2: their food source out. And I've seen elk at the

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00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 2: head end of a basin belly deep of powder. Meali's

287
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Speaker 2: as well, and you're like, why is this bowl not

288
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Speaker 2: pulled down? Why is this big meali buck not pulled down?

289
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Speaker 2: Because they can still dig up their food source. It's

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Speaker 2: not that hard to dig through powder. You step in

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Speaker 2: that powder, you go right, you go right to your

292
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Speaker 2: belly button. You know what I mean, and you can

293
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Speaker 2: go You'll go right down to the ground. There's no

294
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Speaker 2: base as soon as that bass layer gets kicked in.

295
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Speaker 2: And a lot of that's just as simple as it

296
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Speaker 2: just getting warm in the daytime and then freezing at night.

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Speaker 2: You get that warmth that melts the snow, then it

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Speaker 2: freezes at night, then you get a crust layer. That

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Speaker 2: crust layer, if it's a thick enough crust layer, the

300
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Speaker 2: animals can't dig and get their food source. So what

301
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Speaker 2: do they do. They pull down. Some cows they just

302
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Speaker 2: they've been living in that area so long and against

303
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Speaker 2: It's another topic we discussed before. Some areas elk stay

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Speaker 2: up in the high elevation till the snow gets really

305
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Speaker 2: deep and they pulled out, and other areas it's just

306
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Speaker 2: how they've lived and grew up. And it could be

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Speaker 2: a lead cow in the herd where it could be

308
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Speaker 2: just a skiff of snow, and they just in in

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Speaker 2: their mind since they've been a little calf, they've remembered

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Speaker 2: that if they stay up there, when it gets the

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Speaker 2: snow gets too deep, they get stuck up there, so

312
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Speaker 2: naturally they just pull down immediately. So I have areas

313
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Speaker 2: like that. Some areas a hunt, it could be a

314
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Speaker 2: skiff of snow and the whole hurdle pull down to

315
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Speaker 2: the base of the mountain, and other areas will stay

316
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Speaker 2: all the way up at the top until they're forced

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Speaker 2: down by deep snow. And so it just really depends

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Speaker 2: on the herd. And again that's sometimes a lot of

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00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 2: that's just time in the mountains show cameras figuring that out.

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Speaker 2: But a big bull. One thing I've learned with big

321
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Speaker 2: bulls is they move a lot less than a cow does.

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Speaker 2: Cows they can move back and forth from a field

323
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Speaker 2: to their bedding area in no time, but they're burning

324
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Speaker 2: a lot of energy, a lot of pointless energy, right,

325
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Speaker 2: But they've also had all year to gain that body fat.

326
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Speaker 2: And again this is just kind of my logic, and

327
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 2: if there's something I'm saying wrong, stop me on this.

328
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Speaker 2: But I've noticed that these big herd bulls, it's like

329
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Speaker 2: after the rut, they almost just want to relax, like

330
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Speaker 2: they're just like I've had a long rut, Like if

331
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Speaker 2: a predator finds me, I'm screwed. So they need safety

332
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 2: is really important to a big bowl. Yep, he needs

333
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 2: a rest. He doesn't like I'm sure a big bull

334
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 2: would love to come down to the valley floor and

335
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 2: eat in somebody's agricultural field, you know. And I'm sure

336
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 2: if you're in areas where there's not a lot of

337
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 2: hunting pressure or a lot of predation, you'll still see

338
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 2: big bulls do that.

339
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Speaker 1: Right.

340
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,640
Speaker 2: If you go in areas where that's a really hard

341
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 2: unit to draw, you will see big bulls go to

342
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 2: the agriculture field. But like an areas where it's public

343
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 2: land and they easily get shot, the safety is really

344
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,280
Speaker 2: important to a big bowl. The same thing with predation

345
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,440
Speaker 2: as well. We notice the behavior of these big bulls

346
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 2: with wolves too. There's big bulls that still survive the wolves.

347
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 2: They just know that they have to live in a

348
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 2: little bit of a different area for them to prevent that.

349
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 2: So you'll see a big bowl even sometimes not even

350
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 2: batcher group up anymore. They're like a big bowl. Actually

351
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: stay out alone by himself and just find a bench

352
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 2: and bed down, and he just wants left alone. Sometimes

353
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 2: it could be just as simple as he scouting to

354
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 2: figure out where this big bulls hanging out. It's just

355
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: you and I when we are looking at wolf packs

356
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,120
Speaker 2: and trying to figure out what these wolves are doing.

357
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,120
Speaker 2: You and I were looking at maps and we're like, okay, well,

358
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: this is a very popular road system people take. This

359
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 2: is also very popular road system people take. Sure the

360
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 2: wolves may run that at night. So I'm sorry, I'm

361
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,000
Speaker 2: getting off top of been talking about wolves, but this

362
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 2: will make sense to you. But there's these areas where

363
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,680
Speaker 2: there's no road systems, people don't hang out at much.

364
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 2: That's where they hang out during the day. And so

365
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 2: that's the same thing with a big bull and especially

366
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 2: after the first couple of days of season, so rifle

367
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 2: season kicks in, right, you see bulls chasing cows still.

368
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 2: It could be October tenth, it could be October to fifteenth,

369
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 2: depending on the region you're hunting. Yeah, bulls, big bulls

370
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 2: still with the cows. The gun shots start going off.

371
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 2: After a couple of days, you start seeing less elk

372
00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 2: and it's not that they're getting shot up, it's just

373
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 2: that they're okay. The openings are no longer safe, these

374
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 2: brush fields are no longer safe. It's time to hide,

375
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: and the big bulls are going to be smarter at

376
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 2: it than a rag bull. So now you got to

377
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 2: look at these maps and it's like Okay, where where

378
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: these points where these bulls feel safe. Where is the

379
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 2: least amount of predation? You know, that's again it's back

380
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 2: being observant. If you're an area you got show cameras,

381
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: you know where the mountain lions typically cross. Mountainines are

382
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 2: actually patnerable too. People don't know this, but mountain lions.

383
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,439
Speaker 2: I've seen mountain lions cross the same spot multiple times.

384
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 2: Wolves are the same way. Elk figure this out too,

385
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: and so they find out, Okay, well it seems that

386
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: this is a spy. Don't hardly ever see wolves cross through.

387
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: And now you're looking at the trail systems. You're looking

388
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 2: at the road systems. It's like, okay, there's not a

389
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,640
Speaker 2: lot of road systems and not a lot of trail

390
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: systems in there. These big bulls pull in these really

391
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,159
Speaker 2: dark timber holes at least where we're at and on

392
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: these benches. So now it's like, okay, these are the

393
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 2: areas where we're going to find this bowl. And you're

394
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 2: going a lot based on faith here because you don't

395
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 2: hear a bowl bugling, right, and but means that maybe

396
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 2: you got show camp photo of a big bowl in

397
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: the area. It's like Okay, well he's on this mountain somewhere,

398
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 2: but where is he going to be? And so I'll

399
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: pick a spot like that on a bench. And we

400
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about the Elmer Thudd technique. I've

401
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: covered a lot of country at first, I'm covering a

402
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: lot of ground. But if you have a big herd

403
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: bowl and he's done rutt and he's only going to

404
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: cover just a couple of acres as long as he's

405
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 2: not getting any pressure whatsoever. And he found a very

406
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 2: safe spot. He's got a bench just covering in his scent,

407
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: covering in his tracks. And so this is and this

408
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: is if you don't have snow, you got to find

409
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: a bench like that. And as soon as I know,

410
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: I'll run these benches on foot. As soon as I

411
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 2: cut one of these benches, where I catch a whiff

412
00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: of elk, I slow the freak down, and it's time

413
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 2: to really start picking apart the timber. And then you

414
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: get to the art of timber pounding, something that our

415
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: family grew up doing a lot, because eighty percent of

416
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: our country is in timber fifty yard shooting ranges under

417
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: So then you're walking really slow and you're really you're

418
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: trying to keep your eyes up, but you're also looking

419
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: down to a lot. You're trying to check what tracks are.

420
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, well there's a big bowl track in here.

421
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 2: I can smell, and he's been living in here. And

422
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 2: now you're just slowly walking on that little bench. It

423
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: could be a two acre, it could be a five

424
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: acre bench on the side of a mountain, just sidehill,

425
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: really slow, and you're just taking a couple steps, and

426
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: you're peeling apart the timber, and you're not looking for

427
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 2: a big body dolk. I think that's what a lot

428
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 2: of people a looking at sidess like you're hiking, like, oh,

429
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: there's an elk, Like no, you're looking for It could

430
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 2: be a piece of hair, it could be an eyeball,

431
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: an ear, part of a rack. You take a couple

432
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: of steps and you're peeling the mount also taking consideration,

433
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 2: and I have this sounds weird and it sounds unrealistic,

434
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 2: but I have smelt an elk down I've I've cut.

435
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: This actually happened in New Mexico. I was in New

436
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 2: Mexico timber pounding in the junipers, and I smelt elk

437
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: and trapped it too and I was like, whach way

438
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: is the wind blowing? And we saw the direction of

439
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: the wind blown. So we started falling the wind and

440
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: we cut and we found the bowl. So an elk

441
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: are smelling animals. Yeah, I'm not saying that I have

442
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 2: an incredible sense of smell like a dog. I don't.

443
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: It's just the fact that elk smell.

444
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

445
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: And so if you got like a wind and it's

446
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 2: not beened. I've done this twice. Actually, that worked on

447
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: me twice. Right, I smelt an elk, I saw where

448
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: the wind was blown, and I followed the wind, and

449
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: so I used the wind to my advantage, you know,

450
00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 2: as an elk wood to his. And again you're following

451
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: that scent and you're looking in the timber and you're

452
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: just you're taking a couple of steps and you're just

453
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 2: peeling apart with a pair of binos. Now again we

454
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: go back to saying, well, why do my scopes just fine?

455
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: Why don't I just use my hunting scope. The reason

456
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: why I like a pair of binos is you've got

457
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 2: two eyes in the scope. It's a big while, it's

458
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: a big view. You're look it's almost like looking through

459
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: a TV, right, well.

460
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: What I like too is as you're looking with your buyos,

461
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: as you focus at different points through the timber, some

462
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: of those branches just disappear as your focus changes, yeah,

463
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: blur out, and then the sub Let's say, if you're

464
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: focusing on something fifty sixty yards, anything in front in

465
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: the foreground just kind of blurs out. So you can

466
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: kind of look through those little brushy pockets and kind

467
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: of see an elk there exactly.

468
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: And you brought up really could point there in the

469
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: sense that because sometimes I remember that. We're like I'll

470
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: be looking at brush close by and then all of

471
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 2: a sudden you zoom out, and all of a sudden

472
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: you see eyes staring at you. The other thing we

473
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: talked about is I've had a bowl where I would fall.

474
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: I would walk in the timber, and I could I

475
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: know I'm getting close to a bowl. I can smell them,

476
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean I'm falling their wind, but I

477
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: just like, I know they're on the bench somewhere. So

478
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: I'm just walking really so looking all around me, and

479
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: in a cool morning where it's like thirty five forty degrees,

480
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: I'll see steam like I see steam right there and

481
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: I'll look at my bios and I saw there was

482
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: a steam coming out of an elk's nose as he

483
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: was breathing. And so you're looking for very small detail.

484
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: You're not looking for this big bodied elk. The one

485
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 2: time where I really failed that timber pounding alas with Travis,

486
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 2: I remember this. It was actually really funny where all

487
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 2: was walking this bench in the and all the leaves

488
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: if that area were yellow. Yeah, and we were walking

489
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: really slow, as slow as I possibly could go, and

490
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: I should have pulled up my biomes on it to

491
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: not I looked to my left and I see yellow

492
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, that's brush. And I look to

493
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: my right. Travis grabs my head and he oh, sorry,

494
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: I hope they didn't make any noise doing that. He

495
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: turned my head to the left and he's like, I'm like, yeah,

496
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: I just saw that yellow brush. And that yellow bush

497
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: gets up in a six point bowl takes off front

498
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: of him. Oh man, it was thirty five yards. Oh man,

499
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: that just to me it was so broken up to

500
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: where it looked like just a little bush. Yeah, but

501
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: I failed there. If I would have pulled up my

502
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: binos and look, I would have seen hair, I would

503
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: have known that was a bowl. So utilize those binos

504
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: are really important. Always have that in the timber. Most

505
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: people that I know hunt the timber don't even care

506
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: bear binos because, like, I don't need it. I'm not

507
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: seeing long grange. I'm only seeing fifty seventy five yards.

508
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: You're missing a lot of important detail. If you're bumping

509
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: the animals, you're moving too fast too. That's the other thing.

510
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: It's the same with meal deer. If I'm bumping meal

511
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: there multiple times, I'm like, the goal is you want

512
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: to spot the animal before it takes off running. If

513
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: you're spotting multiple animals moving the timber before they take

514
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: off front and you had a chance to shoot them,

515
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: you're moving the right pace. Right, you can't move faster

516
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: than your eyes.

517
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: You could.

518
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: It's easy to out hike your eyes.

519
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a very good point. Yeah, I

520
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: find because I sometimes I'll get in a hurry and

521
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: I'll find myself doing exactly that, and I'll like, hey,

522
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: slow down, like I'm out I'm I've never put it

523
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: in those kind of terms before, but out hiking my

524
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: eyes or out walking my eyes, like you have to

525
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: have your eyes like cover the canvas, the whole area

526
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: before you take your next steps exactly.

527
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: And so that's how I would hunt a timber pound

528
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: a big bowl like that. And I don't, like I said,

529
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: I don't care if if that country your hunt is

530
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 2: ninety percent openings, there's gonna be a hole that big

531
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 2: bull knows where to hide, and you got to find them,

532
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: especially on a general tag. Now again, some people, well no,

533
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: I've seen them hit agriculture. Feel I've seen them. It's like, okay,

534
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: well how's your predation, Well how's the hunting pressure. I

535
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: can tell you for a fact that like oh yeah,

536
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: like yeah, we don't have oh yeah, we don't have

537
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: I mean it's they only give out fifty tags in

538
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: that unit. So sure you're going to see elk, you're

539
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: going to see big bulls running the unit, running the

540
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: openings because they've their safety is different. They're not they

541
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: don't feel like they have to go in those places. Right,

542
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: But like when we're in an area like us where

543
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean you can attest to we're in a very

544
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: predator infested area. Oh yeah, And it's also a general

545
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: tag for residents. Any residents can pick up a tag

546
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 2: and that's most of Ida home, most of the state

547
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: of idahome in Montana as well, and also other states.

548
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: So these elk are going to pull themselves into place

549
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: where they feel safe. You've got to realize, you kill

550
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: an elk that's eight years old, he's had to survive

551
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: eight years of predation and hunting pressure. He's got it

552
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: figured it out by now, and so you got to

553
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: figure him out and you got to beat him at

554
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 2: his own game. Right. But I feel like that's pretty

555
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: good at covering a post reup bowl. But I want

556
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 2: to talk about snow conditions too. Do you have anything

557
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: else to add to that?

558
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask a question before we

559
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: move on to that, which we'll I think will segue

560
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: nice into snow conditions. Have a listener question. Okay, the

561
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: listener says, when hunting those late season bowls, where do

562
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: I locate the bowl on a cold day versus a

563
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: warmer day? Do bulls bed in the on the sunny

564
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: slopes when it's really cold versus when it's warmer? Do

565
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: they bed in cooler slopes?

566
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: That's great questions. So studies show that a bull is

567
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: actually has a better chance in staying warm than he

568
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: has a chance to staying cold. It takes less energy

569
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: to stay warm in the when it's hot out, and

570
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: elk actually struggles more than in cold conditions. The only

571
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: reason why we see an elk in the springtime look

572
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: like he's a skeleton. It's just the fact there's just

573
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: a lack of food source. But if he had the

574
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: food in the wintertime, he'd be fine. Right, winter's great

575
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: like and they grow the thur out. So but yeah,

576
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: so if we're to compare the difference on a hot,

577
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: sunny day, let's say we're on a warm October. Right,

578
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: it's a warm October, which, by the way, really sucks.

579
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: They're not going to be feeding much during the day,

580
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: or if they do feed, it's going to be in

581
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: that heavy, thick timber. Think of where the sun is.

582
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: Find a hole where the sun doesn't hit much. It

583
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: could be a north slope, or it could just be

584
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: a really steep draw where just the sun doesn't get it.

585
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: Elk wants to still cool, I said, he'll find a

586
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: spot that he feels if he feels really good and

587
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: safe and he's not getting bumped around a lot, he

588
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: will stand less on a one acre piece of ground

589
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: and just stay there the rest of the season. That's

590
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: why it's so hard to find him. It could also

591
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: be cliffier. It could just be an area where it's

592
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: just hard to access and they could still be hitting

593
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: those open those openings to feed, but beings that nobody's

594
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: able to get back there, he's feeling pretty safe. So

595
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: that's one thing to think about. Now. Also think about

596
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: this rain. Now rain there's a combination of like, does

597
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: rain bed and animal down to as a storm? It does,

598
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: But let's say you have two weeks of rain. Most

599
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: of my October timber pounding experience is full on reindeer

600
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: and I'm pounding the timber and elk are getting up

601
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: and feeding and bedding down throughout the day. They're staying

602
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: nice and cool. That rain's great. It's like imagine an

603
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: elk just sitting in water. He's just getting rained on

604
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: all day long. So they're moving throughout the day. But

605
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: it's a great thing too. With rain. It's actually one

606
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: of the best times of timber pound because it covers

607
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: your sound and it covers your scent. We have really

608
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: heavy rain, I just move right in on elk. You know,

609
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: I'm not sitting there focusing on my wind as much

610
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: because that rain is just kno going to write down,

611
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: so you can sneak right on an elk. Also, the

612
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: old leaves on the ground, the pine needles, it just

613
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: all soaks up and it just it's almost like walking

614
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: on a pillow. And in the sense that it's not

615
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: making any sounds. You can walk through that dry stuff

616
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: and you're not getting the cracks. You can sneak right

617
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: up on elk. Now what happens if you're really close

618
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: to an alcohol sudden you feel like he's right there,

619
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: It's okay to it's okay to. We talked about this

620
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: earlier too, with a buglin bowl and you're sneaking in

621
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: on them. It's okay to do a couch up here

622
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: and there. But the mistake that I've made in the

623
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: past is given out your location. Sometimes you're better off

624
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: not giving out your location if you feel like, if

625
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 2: you know exactly where that bowl is, like, don't need

626
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: to give out your location. Although I've done this too

627
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: where I'm like, I feel like an elk is right here,

628
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 2: He's right here somewhere, I just can't see him. Sometimes

629
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: as simple as a cow call can just get him

630
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: to like show himself because he could be hiding in

631
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: a brush patch you don't even know it. Also, in

632
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: you cow call and he gets up out of his

633
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: bed to look at you. It's just enough to like

634
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 2: give you a shot. Now, are you going to hear

635
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: a bugle? No, you're not going to hear a bugle.

636
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: It's you're just expecting. What you're trying to do is

637
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna You're trying to bring curiosity and I you're

638
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: trying to get him the step out and see you.

639
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: I do that same technique with mule deer and grunt tubes,

640
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: but rain.

641
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: Yes.

642
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: Now, now let's talk about cold conditions. What I love

643
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: about really really cold weather is it does keep him

644
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: feeding more, keep him feeding later. And so if there's

645
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: a bolt like a big bowl and he's like I said,

646
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: he's in a thick timber patch and he's bedded down,

647
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: and let's say there's a clear cut nearby and with

648
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: a lot of feed, you know, I may notice that bowl,

649
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: you know, like he goes. I've seen the tracks all

650
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: over the clear cut where it could be a clear

651
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: cut or burn or the habitat is just perfect. Have

652
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: you have all everything they need to feed? Out there,

653
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: but you're seeing their tracks, but they're not there. Well,

654
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: he's obviously feeding at night. It's nice with a really

655
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 2: cold the cold weather snap is that it makes them

656
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: feed a little bit longer. Maybe they don't get their

657
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: winter coat in all the way yet, right, so they're

658
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: got it. They're moving more, they're moving more, they're feeding more.

659
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you got to really compare it to people too, right,

660
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: I stay pretty dang warm when I move, Like I

661
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: could be pretty it could be pretty cold weather. And

662
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a thin skinned guy. I don't have a

663
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: lot of body fat on me, so like I have

664
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: to move a lot to keep myself warm. If I stop,

665
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: I get cold and I have to throw layers on.

666
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: You know, it's like an elk. It's like, okay, he

667
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: still has his he still has his coat on, you know,

668
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: like is it really fall coat? And you get a

669
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: crazy winter storm that kicks in, you know in October,

670
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: Well he's they're gonna be feeding quite a bit. And

671
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: you definitely see a difference with that when you get

672
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: those cold snow snap or that cold that cold snap,

673
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be a snow it's just

674
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: as cold cold keeps them feeding longer in the day.

675
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 2: But again, most of the time when I'm killing these bulls,

676
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: I'm killing them in their bedding area. If you're one

677
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: hundred percent relying only on their food source and where

678
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: they're feeding during the day or at night, you're limiting

679
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: your you're limiting what you're doing. So learning to hunt

680
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: their feeding and their betting grounds, it kind of utilizes

681
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: more techniques and how to hunt them.

682
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I found that in the past when I just

683
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: focused on their feeding areas. So I'm going to go

684
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: sit and watch this hillside, whether it's just a brushy

685
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: hillside or maybe a clear cut whatever. You can sit

686
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: there for several days and not see a thing. Conditions

687
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: would have to be just right for to catch one

688
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: of them bowls in daylight hours on one of those spots,

689
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: especially if it's easily accessible. So I love that point

690
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: you brought up. You're like, that's just a portion of

691
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: the portion of the day you would focus on that.

692
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: But then you move into their betting areas. Where are

693
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: they going to spend most of their day.

694
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: In their betting area, you can, yeah, the feeding grounds,

695
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: you can catch them at first light or maybe in

696
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: the evenings, utilizing prime time, get your butt out of bed,

697
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: being there at first light so you can catch them

698
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 2: they're feeding ground.

699
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you may just catch a fleeting glance it's like, okay,

700
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: they are here, where are they going watching bed down? Now?

701
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: Where am I going to hunt them the rest of

702
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: the day in their bedding area?

703
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: Exactly good point there, but that's pretty much in the

704
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: sense of just hunting them there. But you know, sometimes

705
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: if you get really far back country where there's not

706
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 2: a lot of people, you can catch them a lot

707
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: more in these brush fields where they are just feeding

708
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: middle day. And again, if it's hot the bet on

709
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: a Norse lop, it could be in the opening, but

710
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: if it's on norselop, it's not getting a lot of

711
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: sun go bed down mid day in the middle of

712
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: an opening.

713
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: I've seen that during like during a really cold period, Yeah,

714
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: really cold would probably they would maybe go in bed

715
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: where they get a little more sunshine.

716
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that can happen too, so exactly so it just

717
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: really depends on the on the on the time of

718
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: the year and and that and I and I've watched

719
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: bulls bed down in clear cuts in cold weather. Sure,

720
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 2: just like as before, if it was like twenty degrees warmer,

721
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 2: they had move right to the timber.

722
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: Right now, what about deep snow? So you talked about

723
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: you know, bulls with the snow conditions are right, they'll

724
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: stay in the deep snow up to their belly. I'm like,

725
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: sometimes that would be a pretty hard hard to locate

726
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: if you can't see them from a distance. How are

727
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: how are you going to get on bulls like that?

728
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: That's that's where you have to kind of dig deep

729
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: and pull up your bootstraps and really trudge through some

730
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: snow to find these bulls. What are your thoughts on that?

731
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: One thing I love about snow. I'll give you the

732
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: pros and the cons, so that I'll start off with

733
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 2: the con hiking his snow sucks sometimes. Now I'll start

734
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: with Now, that's it. That's really the only ConA snow.

735
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: You know what. My favorite time to hunt any animal

736
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: with a rifle is snow. I can see him better

737
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: in the snow, I can I got tracks now. Now,

738
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 2: Now the question is how do we find a big

739
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: bulls tracks? And I think that's where it starts first.

740
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, some of these bulls are still pulled up

741
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: in the high elevation. You get enough snow, they finally

742
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: like it's time to go. It's time to pull down,

743
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: you know. Unlike a cow and a rag bull, they're

744
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: just like, oh, skiff a snow, time to pull down.

745
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: A big bull, he's just he's tired. He wants left alone.

746
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: He just like I've watched him, just like, it almost

747
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: looks like they're dead. Sometimes if you have a chance

748
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: to glasp up a bowl after the rut, it almost

749
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: looks like they're dead. They just lay down and they

750
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: just sleep, just like we do. Eyes down and they'll

751
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: just sleep for hours. They're just so exhausted after the rut.

752
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: And those cows and those you know, they got all

753
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: the energy in the world. They'll run down to the Oh,

754
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,479
Speaker 2: snow came in, and we're running down the valley floor

755
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: and we're we're you know, eating food in a different location.

756
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: Those big bulls, it's just like, I'm not going. I

757
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: really don't want to get down here until I have to,

758
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 2: you know, especially if they know they're safe up there.

759
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: Right.

760
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: So it's like, how do you find an elk like that? Well,

761
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: even in the thickest timber country, you can still find tracks.

762
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: Imagine having a snow background inside the timber, you can

763
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: still glass timber. Like if you're on a steep hill

764
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 2: side and you're glassing across on another steep hill side

765
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: with timber, putting your eyes in there and glassy. Now,

766
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: are you planning to find elk? That'd be great, But

767
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: a lot of times I'm not even looking for elk.

768
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: I'm looking for tracks, and I utilize a fresh snow.

769
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: If I get a fresh no, I'm like, I want

770
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: to be in the mountain all day because I need

771
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: to find the tracks. You're on the snow, and then

772
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 2: you get up on the other side of the ridge

773
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: where and I'm glassing across, I'm first trying to figure

774
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: out where they are at, so I'm not even f

775
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: Sometimes i feel like I'm wasting time just hiking him

776
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: out namelessly trying to find elk. Come like, I got snow, now,

777
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: let me get teler side glass across. It could be

778
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: a spotter or pair of binos, But I'm looking for

779
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: a trail of tracks running through that deep snow. And

780
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: I've just done enough to where I know the difference

781
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: between a deer and elk track. From a distance, you

782
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 2: can see the big enough strider like, yeah, that's pretty big.

783
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: Most likely that's a bowl, you know, pulling out of

784
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: the high country. And then after you do that, if

785
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: you have time, either A get over there on those tracks,

786
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: or B go up there the next day and then

787
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: try to and try to pursue that bowl. It goes

788
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: back to thinking, oh, well, I'm a day behind on

789
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: that bowl. What doesn't matter. That bowl is still tired

790
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: and exhausted after a long rut. He's just pulling down

791
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: in some lower elevation, or maybe he's just maybe he's

792
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: just moving. Now you just see where he's moving back

793
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: and forth to where he feeds in beds. But regardless,

794
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: now you know where his tracks are. Climb up on

795
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: the other side of the ridge. I get on his tracks,

796
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: and then I stay on it. So now I want

797
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: to talk about how do you track a bull elk?

798
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: This is the tough thing, and I do the best

799
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: I can with this. But one of the best things

800
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: you can do is not be actually on the track.

801
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: If you have a chance, stay track it, be standing

802
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: above it. If you can do ten to twenty yards

803
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: above the track and follow it. Okay, sometimes those bulls,

804
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: the predators are following their tracks all the time, so

805
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: when they bed down, they're bend down facing their tracks.

806
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: It's great. If you could catch a bull feeding, then

807
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: that's a different story. You can track a bull in

808
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 2: the timber and he's you caught him feeding, then sweet,

809
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 2: you can get him. But let's say let's say that

810
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: bull's bed and he's facing right at you, so you're

811
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: sneaking in that snow, you're charging through. Well, he's got

812
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: you spotted most likely. To me, it's like whoever's moving

813
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: is the easiest one in the spot right right, He's

814
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: still he's going to be hard for me the spot.

815
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: So so if you're right on his track, he can

816
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: spy and he'll bump out. So kind of like the

817
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: best thing to do is you want to try to

818
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: get above him, above those tracks, and try to follow

819
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: him if you can. If you can stay like twenty yards,

820
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: that's like ideal, and you want to be above. It

821
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: seems with elk and deer they always expect predation to

822
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: come from below. So if you try to stay below

823
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: the tracks and follow him, I feel like also he's

824
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: going to have a better chance to spot in you.

825
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: You always want to be above the tracks, gotcha, But

826
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 2: then the other thing. So it's like and then again

827
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 2: it goes back to like you're moving. Remember this bowl,

828
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 2: he's not planning on moving a lot. He has no

829
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 2: reason to. He's just trying to feed him bed down,

830
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: and so move slow. If you get into a new

831
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: spot where you're you're peeking over a ridge and you're

832
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: in the timber, like you're really scanning that timber as

833
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: hard as you can and trying to find a bull bedded,

834
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: and then what typically happens if things don't go right,

835
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: that bowl will start to move. He feels that he's

836
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: being followed. He starts to move, and sometimes he's not running,

837
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: he just feels like, I feel like something's following me.

838
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 2: So you'll notice that bull get out of his bending

839
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: els and he starts to move. And then you'll notice

840
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: a different this I've seen almost every herd bull do

841
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: or every big bull do. This is they'll climb up.

842
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: They'll do a loop where they'll walk in a straight line.

843
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: It could be one hundred two hundred yards, it could

844
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: even be five hundred yards. You do a loop and

845
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: get right above and he'll bed down and he looks

846
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: down on his tracks, watching his back work in his

847
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: back trail, and I man, I can't tell you how

848
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: many times I felt stupid rob follow his tracks and

849
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, and then I do literally feel like the

850
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: old Elmer thud, you know, just like no dah no, no,

851
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: you know, And I do the little stupid walk and

852
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: and then I follow tracks. I see that back track.

853
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: I fall back up and I realized all that bowllll

854
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: betted right above his track, staring down he had me.

855
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: And then he'd back moving again, and he'd do it

856
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: over and over again. So you want to again. It

857
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: goes back to trying to stay above the track, and

858
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: it's it's challenging. But the best scenario in this, and

859
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: my dad's done this is he's been above the track

860
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: and he's watched and when he caught up to that bowl,

861
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: it'd be staring down at his own tracks, waiting for him.

862
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: In fact, he might even hear I wonder if he

863
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: the bull would even hear your dad or you or

864
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: your dad or you hear the noise, a little bit

865
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: of noise coming, and then they still focus on that track.

866
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: It's like I hear something, but I think it's probably

867
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: following me. Well, if you have powder, they can't hear me.

868
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: They can't hear that. Powder is the best time the

869
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: track just it muffles down. You can sneak right up

870
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: on animals with powder. Snow another time of the day

871
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 2: that's really nice to track and it really gets red

872
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: as scent is. Let's say you get a good snow

873
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: and then it warms up and all that you've have

874
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: you been in this situation where all that snow's falling

875
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 2: out of the trees, just noisy and dripping. It's noisy

876
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: and dripping, and I've walked right up to mule deer,

877
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: I've walked right up to elk on days like that,

878
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: those days are awesome. Yeah, you're sting. It doesn't matter

879
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: if the windsbone right at them. That scent it just

880
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: it just goes right to the ground.

881
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of movement in the forest too,

882
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: because you have like these limbs that have some snow

883
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: and then the snow melts and then the it'll make

884
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: a whoosh and then that limb will wiggle.

885
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great time the track. If you're

886
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: on a bull track, just stay on it and and

887
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: you can move pretty fast on them at that point

888
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: because there's just so much movement in the trees. Like

889
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: I said, the branches are moving. That was actually maybe

890
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: you've seen that video where that mule deer sniff Travis's pants. Yeah,

891
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: there was a buck chasing a dough and they just

892
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: weren't a at the trap sniffed this pants. Everybody's like,

893
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: what snutwalk?

894
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: Did you use? What type of set control do you use?

895
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: Nothing? It was just that was the conditions. It was

896
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: just perfect where all is scent and we were moving

897
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: and everything and they didn't see us. It's the same

898
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: thing like, that's a really good day to kill a

899
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: bull elk in the snow. So really utilizing the snow

900
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: is really good. Like I said, Montana has a November rut,

901
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: which you're guaranteed to get snow. Now where I hunt,

902
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: our season pretty much ends before November, so you're just

903
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,479
Speaker 2: kind of hoping that you get an early snow for that. Again,

904
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: I've made the mistake of just walking too fast, falling

905
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: tracks and thinking they're on the move, and then I

906
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: bump them and it's like when you do that, you're

907
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: moving too fast. You gotta slow down. Are they always

908
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: looking at their backtrack? Not always? If they feel safe

909
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: in their area and they've been not been chased around

910
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: for a while. You'll you can catch them just laying

911
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: down right, look in a different direction. But you just

912
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: always have to expect that like a bull, you get

913
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: an old bull, he's he's reason why he's alive. And

914
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: every all elk are stinky, So you gotta imagine this

915
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: bowl has with as stinky as he is. He's survived wolves,

916
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 2: he's mountain lions. Don't think that a big bull doesn't

917
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: get killed by mountain lion, you know. So, I know

918
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: some of you may not see this, but behind you

919
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: there's a really big bowl that's it's a skull, and

920
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: it's actually a mountain lion killed. Young female lion killed

921
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: that bowl, and it's like, wow, a mountain lion can

922
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: kill a big bowl pretty easy. Doesn't have to be

923
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: a big lion. So so mountains are still considered a

924
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: pretty big party or to elk, wolves are obviously the worst.

925
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: I've got a question, Yeah, so as you're tracking this elk,

926
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: how do you know if he's walking with purpose or

927
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: if he's feeding along the way, And how do you

928
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: know is there any indicator if he's going to bed down?

929
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Usually if they're meandering. When I say meandering, you'll

930
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 2: see him like they might walk to the left, they're feeding.

931
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: They walk to the right they feed. It could be

932
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: on moss, on a tree, it could be brush. You

933
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 2: can see him kicking it up. That's a good indication.

934
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: He's not walking a straight line, but it's a purpose.

935
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: He's walking a straight lion. When it's a real purpose,

936
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 2: you start those You see those strikes get a little

937
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: bit wider, longer. He's starting to know he's follow You

938
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: see those strikes get even longer. You're like, oh, I

939
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: think he's I think he knows I'm onto him, you know, right,

940
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 2: see those strides. But the best thing to notice is

941
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: like you'll see him he And I think I told

942
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: you this yesterday. There was a time and we wish

943
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: we were like, oh my gosh, this would be so cool.

944
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: We just I think was Travis. I was with him

945
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 2: in Montana. He just filled his elk tag like a

946
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: week prior, and so we're out hunting meal deer and

947
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: the deep snow and it's elk season two. But like

948
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: I said, he doesn't have an elk tag anymore. There

949
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: was a big bull track, big bull track, and he

950
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: and we just like kind of curiosity. We're just like,

951
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 2: we're just following the bull truck for just a little

952
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: ways and we saw in bed like twelve times he

953
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: just hued feed bed down, feed be down. Like, oh

954
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: my gosh, I wish we had the tag, you know,

955
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: because that's you know, he was pretty obvious. He's just

956
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: but he just the high country just pulled them out.

957
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: They've got a deep snow in the high elevation. He's

958
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: just was pulling through and moving down. He's kind of

959
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: forced out of there. Although the ragballs and cows already

960
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: pulled down, he was still a little bit higher. At

961
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: that time. I was actually really supplised that bowl was

962
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: still up there. I'm like, wow, that that bowl's been

963
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 2: I mean, he's been in deep snow for a while.

964
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: But then also too comes back to where there's a

965
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: lot of country. The higher elevation, the less timber there

966
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: is too, right, so you get up higher, there's these

967
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: trees are more sparse. Some well, those zlk do feel

968
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 2: safe up high, and a lot of the predators an't

969
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: running up high anymore. They're falling the majority of the

970
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: game at the base of the mountain, and so you

971
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: do catch big bulls in an open country like in

972
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: the openings in knee deep snow or plus you can

973
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: catch him up there too. That was my I mean,

974
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: how awesome would that be, you know, to do that,

975
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: to find a bowl like that, and so that is

976
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: also a possibility too. There's a lot of options in

977
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: how to hile that time of the year.

978
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: Now here's one of my biggest peeves or big biggest

979
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: nemesiss mesis hunting elk in snow, is finding the right

980
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: snow conditions. It feels like the day that if I'd

981
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: have been there a couple of days earlier, I'd have

982
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: had that beautiful powder. But now I get there and

983
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: it's like melted and froze and melted and FROs and

984
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: that's pretty crusty, it's pretty noise.

985
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: You're you know, this is just the fact you're not

986
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: going to fall an elk on that. I mean, you're

987
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: better off trying to glass, trying to find them in

988
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 2: a spot where maybe catch them the opening. You're you're

989
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: just gonna bump ups, gonna bump elk, and you're better

990
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 2: off waiting for a good, better snow conditions.

991
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: Yep.

992
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: I really watched the weather closely, Like I'm looking for

993
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: a window too, And I think it's just my older age.

994
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: Like I think just when we're older, we also are

995
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: like a big bowl right where we don't want to

996
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: waste our energy on bad days. Right Like if I

997
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: have a week old, crusty snow, I don't even And

998
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: if I know that I have more hunting season, if

999
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 2: I have a couple of days left, I'm like, I

1000
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: have no choice at this point, i just have to

1001
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 2: go out in the woods. But if I have like

1002
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: another week or two of hunting season and I know

1003
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: that we're going to get some more snow front, like

1004
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: some weather fronts, we're just going to wait for another

1005
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: weatherfront to come through. Again. Like I said, it's just

1006
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: like you're trying to find a window. It's like, Okay,

1007
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: there's my window. Time to get up there, and I'm

1008
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 2: not going to burn myself out before it gets good.

1009
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you could sit there for a week on

1010
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: bad snow conditions and you just spending your wheels.

1011
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 2: You're just wasting time. That was And again I don't

1012
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: mean to jump back to Mule Deer too, but with

1013
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: Mewlee's like last year, I was, it's you know it's

1014
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: a month long hunting season in mont Dana, but I

1015
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: was fogged in. There was a lot like there was

1016
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: probably about ten days of straight up fog, and I

1017
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: just knew that I was going to be wasting my time.

1018
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: So I like, Okay, well i'll catch up with work.

1019
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: And then when I see that we're getting a we've

1020
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 2: got a window, and I'm I'm fine with hunting snow

1021
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: or rain, whatever. It's just you can't see in fog.

1022
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: It's just if you have thick fogs.

1023
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: You're screwed.

1024
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: You're not going to see anything. And so now I

1025
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: have time to move in. I found my window. And

1026
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: but what's good? What's good with old snow? So here

1027
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: here I'll give a So I just talked about the

1028
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: cons about heart like old snow. Here's the here's the pro.

1029
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: We talked about glassing. You know, if you have the

1030
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: chance getting on the other side of ridge and glass

1031
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: in that open timber, if it's sparse enough, you see

1032
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: you kind of see patterns with the olk. Right, maybe

1033
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: a bull is living in the air. You'll know is

1034
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 2: he passing through, is asy passing through? Or b is

1035
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: there an olk living in there? You'll see a pocket

1036
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: of just a whole bunch of tracks. It may look

1037
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: like there's a herd of elk in there, but it's

1038
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 2: maybe just one bowl just going around and just feeding

1039
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: around every day.

1040
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: They're just doing a little different round.

1041
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a little yeah. And so that's a great

1042
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: thing with old snow as being all do that now

1043
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: doesn't mean you should climb over there and then try

1044
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 2: to bump them out. Maybe it's not the greatest or

1045
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 2: maybe you got a long range opportunity. It's like, okay,

1046
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: well he's living in there. Maybe I just need to

1047
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: sit here all day like I'm hunting. I want to

1048
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 2: utilize my time wisely. Maybe you just need to wait

1049
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: there until you see him come through. I have long

1050
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 2: ranged elk and deer in in open timber. But I

1051
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: mean open timber. I mean it could be thick, even

1052
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 2: thick with brush. But when all that those leaves fall

1053
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: out of the it could be an alder field. It

1054
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: could be a combination of trees and alders. When the

1055
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: leaves are out of the alders, you can see right

1056
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 2: through it. Yeah, I've long range our family. I mean,

1057
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: I I want to say I have, but I have

1058
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: my little brother. He's he's long ranged elk. You know,

1059
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: I've long ranged mules in alders. They feel safe. They think,

1060
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I'm hidden it. You know, the brush is

1061
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 2: head hot overhead high, right. They feel safe. But then

1062
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: when you're looking across on a hillside you see them

1063
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 2: and they're just like, dude, you're you're sitting duck like

1064
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: you don't realize it. And it's the same with big

1065
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: bulls too. Sometimes you're like, I'm hidden in this brush.

1066
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: No they're not. And you know, I'd rather do I

1067
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 2: would not want to pound those alders, So I'm like,

1068
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna wait for them to step out for

1069
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: a shot. Even have to sit here all day. So

1070
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different ways in doing it. And

1071
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: like I said, I do really like having snow conditions.

1072
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: It's it does help tracking. You have tracks, you can

1073
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: see what's going on as much versus you don't have snow.

1074
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: I mean, you can still find tracks, but you're there's

1075
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: a lot you have to pay attention to a lot

1076
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: more detail, and you just don't have that snow background

1077
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: to spot an animal. It's just so easy to spawn

1078
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: an elk or a meal deal with a snow background.

1079
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love it. It's there. They blend in

1080
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: so good when there's no snow, like you could just

1081
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: if you're not like really good with with your glass

1082
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: and good at spotting animals. They can be really tough

1083
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: and they can't snow. But with snow man, they really

1084
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: pop out. It makes the job spot in a lot easier.

1085
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: It does.

1086
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: And they can still hide in snow, but definitely like

1087
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: it's like if they're moving, you're like, oh, yeah, there

1088
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: you are.

1089
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely yeah. Well I got a question off Instagram here,

1090
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: and the question is what calls are you using to

1091
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: call in elk in late season.

1092
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: I'm not using any calls. I'm not even being one.

1093
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 2: I'll run a col call to a stop and elk.

1094
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes if I'm just pulling up, then maybe maybe he's behind.

1095
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: Like let's say I got an elk spot in the timber.

1096
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: He's fifty seventy five yards and I just need him

1097
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: to like step out for a shot, Like he can't

1098
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: see me. I can't see him. Oh cal call see

1099
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 2: if I ca get him step out or it could

1100
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: be a stop and elk. Right, elk takes off front

1101
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: ew you you bull stops. That' so sound. He recognizes

1102
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: like I remember that sound, turns around broadside boom, you know,

1103
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: get a shot. Another thing, long range shooting. Sometimes it's like, okay,

1104
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 2: this bulls I got it, I'm set up, I'm prone.

1105
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: This bull is about ready to walk out in the open.

1106
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: I can see him in the timverybody's gonna walk out.

1107
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: I got a good window to shoot him. Well walks out.

1108
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 2: It could be you could throw a bugle. Stop with

1109
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: a bugle. You're just the only time I'm using calls

1110
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 2: post rut. If they're not talking, is this stop them

1111
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 2: or just control them in some way, shape or form.

1112
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: But I'm not calling them in.

1113
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: I love that. A lot of new hunters I think

1114
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: that just don't know, you know, about the timing of

1115
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: the rut or how how Elk vocalized throughout the year.

1116
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: I get this that same question a lot. You know,

1117
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: what kind of bugles should I be doing, you know,

1118
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: during late season? But but yeah, I agree you we're

1119
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: not trying to call in Elk, and especially in the

1120
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: late season, we're probably not even gonna hear. Let try

1121
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: to locate Elk with a bugle. That time has passed. Now,

1122
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean Elk won't be bugling on their own

1123
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: sometimes in that later season, and when they do, that's

1124
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: a great time to capitalize. But again, we're not trying

1125
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,879
Speaker 1: to call them in. We're trying to close the gap.

1126
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: You let them give away their location and then move

1127
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: in on them.

1128
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, follow those steps you'll be you

1129
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: be successful every time.

1130
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: And I think the one of the biggest things too,

1131
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: is like that you haven't touched touched on is like

1132
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: not giving up. So it's super easy in that post

1133
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: post raut season to give up. Like, man, I feel

1134
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 1: like I've been walking forever. Man, I don't know. I

1135
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: just haven't found any ELK sign. I think I'm gonna

1136
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: turn back. But like you said, though, here's something to kean.

1137
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: Those bowls will live on a one in a one

1138
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: acre spot. You know, they have some water, they got

1139
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 1: some food, and they got some some safety right there.

1140
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: They're not moving, They're gonna They're gonna try to sit there.

1141
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: They're gonna try to gain back some fat before the

1142
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: winter snows start coming. They're not gonna move, they're tired.

1143
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 1: They're just signing to heal up from the rut. It's

1144
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: going to take a lot of boot leather and a

1145
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: lot of glassing depend on the kind of country you're in.

1146
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: But just trying to locate those elk, trying to find

1147
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: that elk to hunt so and then, like you talked

1148
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: about on the snow part, walking in snow sucks. It's difficult,

1149
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: it's hard. I think what I found for myself walking

1150
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: in snow is if I try to get in a

1151
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: hurry and overdo it, then I swept myself out and

1152
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: I overdo it, and then I'm exhausted. I'm just like,

1153
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: all right, I just kind of kind of a flash

1154
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: in the pan. I just did two way too much

1155
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: too early. It's more of a like an endurance thing,

1156
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: like take it easy, take your time, move move to

1157
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: at a pace that you don't oversweat, over exert, and

1158
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: don't go move too quickly, too quickly where you're gonna

1159
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: bump those elk. Yes, exactly, because you have to stay

1160
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: in the woods, right, You got to stay in the

1161
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: game if you want to kill them. And if you

1162
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: get discouraged and give up and go home, well you

1163
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: just ate your elk tag exactly.

1164
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: And then of course I was joking about like it

1165
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: works every time, you know, right, Yeah, percent time works every.

1166
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: Time, it works every time, right, right, And then these

1167
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: are these are great great tips and tactics, and you

1168
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: know they can be modified. You know, there's not always

1169
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: there's not always the perfect rule. You know, there's always

1170
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, an exception to every rule. But but this

1171
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: is a very excellent baseline. I love the detail and

1172
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: how you laid it all out, and I appreciate that that.

1173
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: I hope that helped for our listeners a lot. I

1174
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: know it's helped me a lot, because sometimes I find myself,

1175
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, spun out and like, you know, when you

1176
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: talked about snow conditions and like crunchy, crusty snow versus

1177
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: powder snow, and where elk may want to feed or

1178
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: deer want to feed, you know that that was like

1179
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: a big aha moment for me because I was like,

1180
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, I think we even talked about this, like, yeah,

1181
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: some of the deer in my spots, you know, one year,

1182
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: they'll be up in that really deep snow. In the

1183
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: next year and you're like, oh, it could be the

1184
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: snow conditions. And if I think back, it's like, oh, yeah,

1185
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: they moved out because it was really crunchy and they're

1186
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: having a hard time finding food, where as the powder snow,

1187
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: it's easy to do. I have time to share a story, Yeah, yeah,

1188
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: we got we got a little bit of time. Okay.

1189
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: So and this is this is probably be a really

1190
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: good narrow down. This was not snowed conditions, by the way,

1191
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 2: So this was actually in Wyoming, and it was an

1192
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 2: area with a lot of hunting pressure, you know. So

1193
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 2: right out the get go, I was trying to be selected.

1194
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I do this tag. So I'm going

1195
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: to go into Wyoming. But as a residence, a lot

1196
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: easier to get the tag Wyoming. So anyways, first couple

1197
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: of days you couldn't even and I'd say sixty or

1198
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 2: seventy percent of this unit was open, and there was

1199
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 2: just a lot of timber. But it was just like

1200
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: at first, like the day before season kicked in, there

1201
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: was we were seeing elcohol over these open country. We

1202
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: stopped by day two, we stopped seeing elk in openings

1203
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: morning and night. They were just no longer going out

1204
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 2: in the openings of feet in the day, right, And

1205
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 2: so Travis and I said, well, let's go back to

1206
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: our roots and timber pound. And so we really had

1207
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 2: to pick apart the map right, there's still like a

1208
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: lot of timbers. So it's like, okay, well, not every

1209
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 2: timber patch has elk in it, So where do we

1210
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 2: find where our odds are best to find elk? Well,

1211
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 2: just scouring the unit and learning about everything, there was

1212
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 2: this spot that was quite interesting where we saw that

1213
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: at the base of the mountain, people come up the

1214
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 2: hunt elk. We saw a road system on top of

1215
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 2: the mountain. We saw people hunting the top of the

1216
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: other there's road systems in there. Right in the center

1217
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 2: at this particular elevation, there was not one road system

1218
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: going through. There's a lot of roads on this mountain

1219
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: all time. Like this was like it almost seemed like

1220
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: everywhere you drive there was you can get to it

1221
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 2: by a pickup or a four where there right, But

1222
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: we saw this one section of the mountain where it's

1223
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: just like there's this timber seam that ran all the

1224
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: across the mountain. There's a road. This is a place

1225
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: I've never hunted before. So this is not like, oh, yeah,

1226
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: I've watched the oak for all these years. It's like, no,

1227
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: but I'm utilizing my exact techniques that I talked about,

1228
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: so trous and are like Okay, Well, obviously hunters have that,

1229
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: like they hike a little bit, they put them their

1230
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 2: hunt pressure and they get out. Well, now the elks,

1231
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: in our opinion, we're like, okay, I bet you those

1232
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: elk are just stacked in there right from from the

1233
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: time pressure blow and belove. It just kind of puts

1234
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 2: them right in the center. So Trous saying, Okay, all

1235
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: day long, we're just going to timber pound, just like

1236
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 2: what we do in our timber country. We did that

1237
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 2: and we were jumping. We were bumping elk all day long,

1238
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: and I ended up killing a nice bowl out of there,

1239
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: just like I just like we'd go in the timber

1240
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 2: it's like, oh there's a bull, Nope, not the one

1241
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 2: we're after. Oh oh there's a bull. No, not the

1242
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: one we're after. Finally, for probably about two o'clock in

1243
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 2: the afternoon, I saw the bull I wanted and I

1244
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 2: killed it. And then talking you know to other people,

1245
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 2: like I haven't seen an elk in a week or two.

1246
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's like it's just they didn't know how

1247
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 2: to hunt it. Right now. This is this goes to

1248
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 2: the same concept to a meal deer killed in Colorado

1249
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,959
Speaker 2: where there was a lot of hunting pressure. I stayed

1250
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 2: in contact with a bunch of people. You know where

1251
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: I killed a nice Meali Buck. Other people are like, oh,

1252
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 2: like stuck and run, I love your videos. I was like, yeah,

1253
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 2: I want to. I'm curious because this is the first

1254
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: time ever hunted this unit. I want to stay in

1255
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: contact with you and see how your success was. And again,

1256
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: it's one of those units where there's a lot of

1257
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 2: timber and there's a lot of openings. So they afterwards

1258
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: I contacted them and they're like, I was like, how

1259
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 2: did you go? Oh, I just couldn't find meal. There's

1260
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: like every day there was less and less meal deer.

1261
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: I just couldn't find them in the openings anymore. And

1262
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 2: this is a place with a lot of hunt pressure, right,

1263
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, did you think of hitting the timber? Like, well,

1264
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure that would you know? They just thought like

1265
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: if they were there, they would have seen them feed, right,

1266
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: But all of a sudden, the meal is although I said,

1267
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 2: like meal deer do like naturally, meal deer feel safe

1268
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 2: in open country. As soon as those gunshots go out,

1269
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 2: they know that they feel safer in the timber. The

1270
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: height from those unshot. Right, it goes and it goes

1271
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: back to that too, you know, it goes back to

1272
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 2: your techniques and timber pounding because people limit themselves on

1273
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 2: just I'm only going to glass if I can't see

1274
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 2: it from the pickup, I'm not going to go after it.

1275
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 2: You're you're not using all the techniques that you could

1276
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 2: possibly do. You can make I don't want to say

1277
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 2: that every row has a big monster bowl elk, but

1278
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: there's a lot of units that people neglect and don't

1279
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: think they're there, right, It's because they don't see them.

1280
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: And you and I both know you. I both hunt

1281
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: country where there is big bulls still around. There's few

1282
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 2: and far between, and you just have to know how

1283
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 2: to hunt them.

1284
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: Yep.

1285
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 2: And so I just thought i'd share that story because

1286
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: I felt like that was a really good prime example

1287
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: of like most people wouldn't know what to do in

1288
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 2: that situation, and we just being knowing that our tactics

1289
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 2: it worked for us, This scenario never hunted before.

1290
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I love it. I

1291
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: think I think that for me, the take away this

1292
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: is learn elk habits behavior, understand what they eat, and

1293
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: understand how they react. To hunting pressure and you'll you'll

1294
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 1: be able to find them during the rifle season. And

1295
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: this is some really great knowledge. Now it's time you

1296
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: know this fall. You know, I helpe our listeners get

1297
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: a chance to go out and put this into practice.

1298
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: Listen to it again if you need a refresher, but

1299
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: don't give up, and you're going to find success. And

1300
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: it may take you a couple of years. I mean,

1301
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: you've been hunting since for how many years?

1302
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: Cash, I mean since I was allowed to so age twelve,

1303
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, like you know, you got

1304
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 2: to be twelve to hunt. Yeah, and so, and now

1305
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm thirty four, so if I actually I think I

1306
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 2: did so. I did count the other day and I

1307
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 2: just longly. I was able to count how many elk

1308
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 2: I have killed, as I just have a pile of

1309
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: bugle teeth and I've counted twenty two pairs, So I've

1310
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: killed twenty two bul elk in that time. And some

1311
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 2: years I've killed three elk, and some years i've I

1312
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 2: was hunting Alaska and I didn't kill elk at all.

1313
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, so for me, I'm still I considered myself

1314
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: pretty young, still thirty four years old, but killed twenty

1315
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: two bulls. Travis killed twenty four. I talked to him.

1316
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: I just asked him, you know, just like what's your number.

1317
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 2: But again, I'm not the type of person who notches

1318
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 2: my belt. But I'm just kind of saying like, yeah,

1319
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: I've I've hunted a lot of bulls, and I'm not

1320
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 2: always a shooter either. So although I've killed twenty two bulls,

1321
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,919
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that i haven't seen more elk die either.

1322
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 2: I'm helping my brother, helping my little brother, vice versa.

1323
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 2: Travis's helped me kill big bulls. We've helped my little

1324
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: brother killed. But you know what I mean, We're just

1325
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 2: our family's really close together, and I've we've watched a

1326
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: lot of stuff die.

1327
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys have been successful for a lot of years,

1328
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: and I think it took a few years to develop

1329
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: this system of understanding and finding the elk and knowing

1330
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: how to huh them. So for our listeners, don't get

1331
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: discouraged if the first first year you try to apply

1332
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: these tactics, you go out there and it's it's like,

1333
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: well I got I did better, but maybe I didn't.

1334
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: Not a tag. It's going to take a little while

1335
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: to develop that system and get that gut feeling and

1336
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: understand where those elk are going to be and where

1337
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: you can shoot them.

1338
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 2: So and then could I mention Yeah, so our camps

1339
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 2: that we do it also, okay please, And so we've

1340
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: had a lot of people ask us about, you know,

1341
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 2: how to hit elk and sometimes it's really tough to

1342
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 2: teach people online. So we've actually just started this year

1343
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 2: doing an elk camp where people can come out there

1344
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 2: is we just we made it really simple. The name

1345
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: is Stuck and Rode Elk Camp, and we've had people

1346
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: come out. We teach them how to elk hunt and

1347
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 2: teach them several different tactics, teach them about long range shooting,

1348
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 2: teach them about archery talk. You know, we did the

1349
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 2: whole teaching people how to use the calls and and

1350
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 2: so that is an option for you guys if if

1351
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: you want to do that now. I don't have the

1352
01:06:55,640 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 2: next one announced for next year, but staying caught like that,

1353
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: follow Stuck and Rod on Instagram and we will announce

1354
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: it here shortly when we for the next camp, So

1355
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 2: stay tuned for that. I just wanted to mention that metcha,

1356
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:10,919
Speaker 2: So it's great. If you guys really want to learn

1357
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 2: our goals, we want to cut that learning curve. And

1358
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 2: the reasonhy I was saying that is you said I

1359
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 2: was there where I was scratching my head, and I

1360
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 2: was like, and is especially when we lost our numbers,

1361
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 2: our elk numbers. It's like, Okay, well now I have

1362
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 2: to really learn how to hunt elk because just pounding

1363
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 2: the mountain and just putting the time alone was no

1364
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: longer helping me. So I actually had to learn. I

1365
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 2: had to put in not just the time, but I

1366
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 2: also had to learn and understand what I'm hunting and

1367
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 2: the behavior of the yelk. And so we can teach

1368
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 2: you there and we can cut that learning curve. It's

1369
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: an investment. Like if what you learn there is going

1370
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 2: to cut, you cut your learning curve in half, if

1371
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 2: not more. And you know you I've had people and

1372
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 2: you've probably heard people say this to you too. I've

1373
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 2: hunted elk for five to six years and I've I've

1374
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 2: not killing elks.

1375
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: Folks tell me twenty years. They've hunted elk for twenty

1376
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 1: years and they still have a Nashia tag.

1377
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so if you guys are in that position.

1378
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 2: It's it's and it's not saying you suck at hunting.

1379
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 2: It's just maybe you're just missing a couple of things.

1380
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 2: Sometimes there's just some fine tuning that we have to do.

1381
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: Looking for that aha moment.

1382
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I was there, like I said, I

1383
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: was there. I was there was a time where I

1384
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: had to learn there's a time where I didn't notch

1385
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 2: my tag. I've ate plenty of tags. So but now

1386
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: I feel like we're really consistent with it. And you know,

1387
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: it's really funny is that my quality, although we have

1388
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: less elk, my quality and my success has got better.

1389
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 2: So how interesting is that that when we had more elk,

1390
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 2: I was killing less elk? Right, And so it's just

1391
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 2: it's just the fact that we've learned how to do

1392
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 2: it better.

1393
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah. And Phelps is a proud supporter of those

1394
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: ELK camps and you're camp and.

1395
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys for everything you've done with that.

1396
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: That's been really helpful.

1397
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, happy to help anyway we can. So we like

1398
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: to support people that we believe in, So.

1399
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you for that.

1400
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: Anyway, Well, thanks a lot for coming on. I would

1401
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: like to remind our listeners. If you guys have questions

1402
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,560
Speaker 1: for the podcast, whether it's for the host or for

1403
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: maybe one of our subject matter experts, please email us

1404
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 1: at CTD at Phelpsgamecalls dot com, or you can call

1405
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:34,799
Speaker 1: our super secret number and you can leave a message

1406
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: and let us know you can leave a message. Keep

1407
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: your message at three minutes are under because if it's

1408
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: over three minutes, the recorder will cut you off. But

1409
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: record your message your question, ask your question, and we

1410
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: will play your question on the air and answer it

1411
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 1: to the best of our abilities. So thanks again, Tom,

1412
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: always a pleasure. I've had an incredible week up here,

1413
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: or incredible three days up here looking for wolves and

1414
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: trying to try to notch a wolf tag with you

1415
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: and Man I hope, I hope we can connect again

1416
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: soon and maybe on some kind of another adventure.

1417
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate

1418
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 2: it and had a lot of fun. We had a

1419
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: lot of fun. I mean, obviously we always want to

1420
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 2: notch a wolf tag. We know how challenging it is.

1421
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it's it's it's not easy. It's not easy.

1422
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 2: It's it's the same thing with el cutting though. It's

1423
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 2: like you put in your time, you're gonna it's not

1424
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 2: if it's when you're gonna get a wolf.

1425
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's one hundred percent. Yep. All right, thank you.

1426
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: M m m m hm.

1427
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 2: Hm hm

1428
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 1: Hm hmm