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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Okay, producer Mike.

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Speaker 1: You ever listen to podcasts and on the first couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes, they just start with some like light banter.

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Speaker 1: They're acting, how they're doing, They're checking in on their week,

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Speaker 1: what are you watching on TV? YadA, YadA, YadA. Have

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Speaker 1: you experienced this?

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Speaker 2: I have experienced this. I feel as like the norm

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Speaker 2: among podcasts and maybe we should give it a shot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So for folks who have been listening to their

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Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet since the very beginning, all

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Speaker 1: the way back in twenty twenty, you'll probably know that

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Speaker 1: I don't do a ton of banter. I just get

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Speaker 1: right into the episode because I really respect the time

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Speaker 1: of the listener. You know, you're giving me your forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes, your hour whatever. I appreciate it. But I

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Speaker 1: listen to podcasts and I'm like, oh, well, I wish

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Speaker 1: that I could talk about my day for like just

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Speaker 1: a couple of minutes, Like see how like I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: rewatching shows on TV. I'm doing a six feet under rewatch, like,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what's going on in my life.

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Speaker 1: So we're this is us soft launching a little bit

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Speaker 1: of light banter before we get into the topics. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds good to me. I mean, I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, people want to be able to ease in.

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Speaker 2: We don't need to just jump straight into Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: and Google and you know, whatever else is going on.

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Speaker 2: We can just start with some light banter like six

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Speaker 2: feet Under. Rewatch. That sounds fun. How's that going?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going well. If folks don't know what six

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Speaker 1: feet Under is, it's an HBO show that took place

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Speaker 1: that started in like two thousand and one about a

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Speaker 1: family that owns and runs a funeral home. It's very good.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a rewatch also. By the way, I literally

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Speaker 1: this is how pathetic things are. I googled when we

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Speaker 1: were we were like brainstorming podcast banter, so I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: kind of what do you people talk about? I spent

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes trying to think about topics that were good

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Speaker 1: for banter. The first one was Linda Yaharino, and you

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Speaker 1: were like, maybe let's not have it be related to

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Speaker 1: the content of the show. I googled podcasts known for

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Speaker 1: good banter. The one that came up is like an

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Speaker 1: iHeart icon stuff you should know. I listened to a

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Speaker 1: bit of their banter. I was like, oh, it's very

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Speaker 1: good banter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got really good banter. You think that's the

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Speaker 2: secret to their success.

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Speaker 1: They've been bantering for like however a month. That show

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Speaker 1: has been on forever, so like they're they've just gotten

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Speaker 1: they've gotten a secret sauce. Also, they have they do

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Speaker 1: a really good job of referencing other folks on the team,

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Speaker 1: so it'll be like, oh, Jerry, our producer is not here,

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Speaker 1: but here's a little joke about Jerry. Like they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're really they have a they have a fleshed out universe. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know the stuff you should know. Universe is very vast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So maybe that's the secret to good banter, just

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Speaker 2: having a fully fleshed out universe, full of characters, things

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Speaker 2: that people will talk about.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's it, y'all. This is our this is our

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Speaker 1: first attempt. This is our banter soft launch. When you

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Speaker 1: listen to later episodes, there will be a little bit

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Speaker 1: of banter, not too much. We're not talking like twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes of banter on an hour long podcast. Absolutely not never,

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Speaker 1: but you you know, you could give me, I could

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Speaker 1: get I could get five minutes to talk about my day.

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Speaker 2: Be like a Daniel Da Lewis podcast. There will be banter.

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Speaker 1: There will be banter. Expect it. It's it's gonna it's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna get better at it. We just gotta

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Speaker 2: keep bantering. It'll start to feel natural. We can talk

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Speaker 2: about things that are not Linda Yakarino. Uh not, there's

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Speaker 2: anything wrong with talking about her, but you know, it

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Speaker 2: feels a little bit like the substance of the show,

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Speaker 2: not really like banter.

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Speaker 1: Because the banter has to be unrelated to the topic.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're easing in, so it's like, how was

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Speaker 1: your week, what are you watching, how's therapy going? All

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Speaker 1: of that. Like, it's like unrelated to the meat of

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Speaker 1: the show. So it'll it'll get better. If this sounds awkward,

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Speaker 1: it's our first time. Cut us some banter slack. We

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Speaker 1: are banter neophytes, but we will get better together. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think that went okay. Can we get into it now?

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Speaker 1: I think we can get into it. I think four minutes.

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Speaker 1: That's a sufficient amount of banter respectful to the listener

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Speaker 1: and eases you in.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we got through it, thank god. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So I have to start with something that is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a personal pet peeve of mine,

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Speaker 1: and that is bad reporting on tech that is so

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Speaker 1: hell bent on fear mongering that it actually ends up

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Speaker 1: obscuring the real issue. So recently, Apple released a feature

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Speaker 1: for iPhone called name Drop, where if you have two

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Speaker 1: unlocked iPhones or other Apple devices you know, iPad, Apple Watch,

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Speaker 1: and then bring them close together, you can trade contact

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Speaker 1: information automatically. I can see this having all kinds of

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Speaker 1: use cases, networking, happy hours, all of that. Police in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: and other states put out warnings about this feature, saying

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Speaker 1: that it was potentially unsafe and that kids and other

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Speaker 1: vulnerable populations should be wary of it. If you google

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Speaker 1: Apple name Drop, the first things that you get are

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Speaker 1: these like breathless headlines from local news outlets and then

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Speaker 1: bigger outlets that I think should know better, and also

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Speaker 1: Fox News.

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Speaker 2: I mean, to Fox News's credit, I would not expect

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Speaker 2: them to know better.

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Speaker 1: That's true. So Fox News's headline about it. Police urge

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Speaker 1: parents to turn off Apple iPhone setting dangerous to kids.

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Speaker 1: So it already just like to deems, this setting is

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Speaker 1: dangerous to kids. So here's the actual reality. Unlike something

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Speaker 1: like air drop or your phone, does it need to

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Speaker 1: be very close to another person's phone. Your phone needs

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Speaker 1: to be pretty close to use name drop, almost touching

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Speaker 1: at Both phones need to be unlocked, So it is

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Speaker 1: really unlikely that some creep is going to be able

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Speaker 1: to get your information without you meaning to give it

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Speaker 1: to them. And if a stranger who you don't know

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Speaker 1: is already that close to your unlocked phone, trust me,

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Speaker 1: you have bigger privacy and security issues to attend to

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Speaker 1: in the immediate then someone getting your contact information via

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Speaker 1: name drop. Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: If you've got your phone unlocked, just like sitting out

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Speaker 2: and somebody can get close to it, yeah, that you

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Speaker 2: can get way more than just your name. They can

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Speaker 2: take your phone, they can do all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I've actually heard of a scam where people ask

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Speaker 1: you like, oh, can I make a phone call on

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Speaker 1: your phone? I'm lost? And then if you unlock your

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Speaker 1: phone and then hand it to them then they have

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Speaker 1: access to like your unlocked phone, right, and so like, yes,

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Speaker 1: like if somebody is if a stranger who means to

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Speaker 1: do you harm is like close physically close that close

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Speaker 1: to your unlocked phone, that is a problem. But not

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Speaker 1: just because of this new feature name drop. And I

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Speaker 1: think there is like some wider conversation to be had

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Speaker 1: about the risks inherent in having things like default settings

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Speaker 1: or features on your phone that you're really not thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Because name drop is a default setting, like having it

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Speaker 1: switched on is a d fault setting on iPhone now,

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Speaker 1: and so I do think that like there's a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the risk inherent in that, Like how Venmo's default

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Speaker 1: setting is to set to show everybody your transactions all

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Speaker 1: the time unless you go in and change that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that one is wild. People should be talking about that.

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Speaker 2: I you know, we had somebody at work the other

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Speaker 2: day who had a personal family situation where we were

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Speaker 2: all collecting money to send them. We're going to send

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Speaker 2: them flowers and like a gift card, and the person

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Speaker 2: who's coordinating said, hey, Venmo, MIHI, And so I lugged

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Speaker 2: in and venmoed them some money. And I could just

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Speaker 2: see in the public feed, Like several of my coworkers

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Speaker 2: had not turned off the setting to make all of

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Speaker 2: their transactions public, and you know that was like a

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Speaker 2: harmless thing. But it's just so wild to me that

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Speaker 2: people are out there living their lives publicly posting their

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Speaker 2: Venmo transactions for all of the Internet to see.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: if you've never really thought about it, people might not

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Speaker 1: know that the default setting is public. I'm sure folks

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Speaker 1: like Matt Gates would love to have could love to

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Speaker 1: be able to go back in time and know that

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Speaker 1: information and change it right. Also, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like if you are

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Speaker 1: way deep in the trenches of online monitoring, like an

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Speaker 1: X or an ex's new flame, and everything is set

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Speaker 1: to private, and you're like, all I have is the

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Speaker 1: Venmo emojis trying to discern like what's going on over

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Speaker 1: there VIA That's when you know you're like in the trenches.

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Speaker 1: But that's how you know you're really in the trenches.

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Speaker 1: So Yeah, I do think that there is a conversation

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Speaker 1: to be had about default settings that you just sort

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Speaker 1: of don't think about and I should say that if

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Speaker 1: you don't want to use name Drop on your phone,

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Speaker 1: or you do have a child who has an Apple device,

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Speaker 1: or like an elderly person who has it, you can

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Speaker 1: turn it off. Will throw the instructions of how to

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Speaker 1: do that in the show notes. However, that is very

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Speaker 1: different than police and local media spilling so much over

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Speaker 1: breathless warnings about some nebulous threat that is so unlikely

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Speaker 1: to happen, without giving any kind of appropriate context. In

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Speaker 1: a piece called name drop is safe, the fear mongering

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Speaker 1: about it is not. Shia Ovid for Washington Post breaks

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Speaker 1: down what I find so frustrating about this reporting that

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Speaker 1: is basically trying to scare you about nothing when it

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Speaker 1: comes to technology. She writes, we spend too much time

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Speaker 1: worrying about the wrong things in technology, and that is

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Speaker 1: partly the fault of public officials and news organizations that

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Speaker 1: can make anything sound scarier than it really is. I

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Speaker 1: think she really hit the nail on the head here.

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Speaker 1: She's absolutely right. I think local media loves a big, scary,

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Speaker 1: puffed up tech story, and what annoys me about that

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Speaker 1: is that there are very real reasons to be worried

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Speaker 1: about technology. Skeptical of technology, asking questions about new technology

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Speaker 1: that has rolled out. If you listen to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: you already know that I am the biggest proponent in

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Speaker 1: the world of that. We cover it all the time. However,

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Speaker 1: there's also a finite amount of things that we can

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Speaker 1: worry about and like keeping our own heads, and that

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Speaker 1: is also true when it comes to technology. So we

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Speaker 1: should really be encouraging folks to be savvy consumers of

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Speaker 1: technology and also helping them educate themselves about the actual

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Speaker 1: risks that are in a way that is grounded in reality,

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Speaker 1: not just fear mongering it.

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Speaker 2: It's such a weird story to be picked up and

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Speaker 2: to become like a scary tech story, Like I wonder

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Speaker 2: what it is about this one that got the attention

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Speaker 2: of people or fit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is just my opinion, but I think

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Speaker 1: it kind of relates back to some of the ways

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Speaker 1: that we've heard kind of threats to children online being

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Speaker 1: talked about by lawmakers or police. Like I just think

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Speaker 1: that it's an issue where there are actual, very real

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Speaker 1: threats to everybody, children being a vulnerable population very much included,

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Speaker 1: and I think that there is just like inherent anxiety

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Speaker 1: around that and so when you have police going on

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, this is a threat, they never

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Speaker 1: explain like what the threat actually is. Like again, like

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Speaker 1: if a stranger is that is that close to your

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Speaker 1: child and both of their phones are unlocked, that is

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Speaker 1: that is a that is a threat. But not just

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Speaker 1: because of name drop, Like it's it's such a weird

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Speaker 1: way to frame that, And I think it's rooted in

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Speaker 1: an anxiety of technology is proposing a harm to children,

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Speaker 1: a harm that we don't really know enough about, a

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Speaker 1: harm that we're not really prepared to really deal with meaningfully.

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Speaker 1: So let's just scare people and they will definitely like, like,

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Speaker 1: this story really blew up. It was everywhere. And I

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Speaker 1: think because people feel so powerless when it comes to

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Speaker 1: keeping their kids safe around technology that of course it's

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Speaker 1: going to go viral.

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Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense. And there's something about

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Speaker 2: this particular threat, you know, real or imagined, that is

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Speaker 2: very familiar and easy to understand and like comforting. It's

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Speaker 2: like some creep is going to get your child's name

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Speaker 2: and phone number, Like I can understand that. I can

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Speaker 2: wrap my head around that. When we talk about a

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Speaker 2: lot of the threats of like AI you know, the

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Speaker 2: threat is that your group might be underrepresented in the

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Speaker 2: training data that might cause nebulous systems to do things

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Speaker 2: that harm you. That's much more difficult to understand.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I just had another thought. I think last

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Speaker 1: summer we did a couple of episodes about the moral

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Speaker 1: panic around things like trafficking and stranger danger, and I

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Speaker 1: just think that, like, this is tech facilitated stranger danger.

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Speaker 1: Of like, oh, this technology is going to weaponize strangers

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Speaker 1: to be a harm to your child in new, unforeseen ways.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, if a stranger is that close

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Speaker 1: to your child, it might be dangerous, but not just

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Speaker 1: because of name drop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good perspective too. It's like, yeah, tech

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Speaker 2: enabled stranger danger. It's so yeah, it's interesting that this

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Speaker 2: story picked up so much steam, got so much attention. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: the real threat is out there on a different platform.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: At our back. Gotta throw a quick heads up on

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Speaker 1: this one because it does involve harm to children. And

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Speaker 1: that is a new damning Wall Street Journal report on

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Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram just dropped, and this time it is

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Speaker 1: in partnership with the Canadian Center for Child Protection. So

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Speaker 1: this damning report found that when someone searches hashtags on

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Speaker 1: Instagram that a child abuser might be searching things like

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Speaker 1: children's gymnastics. Disgusting. I know, ads from big brands are

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Speaker 1: then surfaced next to pretty disturbing content containing children. In

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Speaker 1: this report, they basically got a dummy account and then

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Speaker 1: search things like children's gymnastics. The report reads Instagram system

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Speaker 1: served jarring doses of salacious content to those test accounts,

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Speaker 1: including riskay footage of children, as well as overtly sexual

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Speaker 1: adult videos and ads for some of the biggest US brands.

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Speaker 1: In a stream of videos recommended by Instagram, an ad

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Speaker 1: for the dating app Bumble appeared between a video of

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Speaker 1: someone stroking the face of a life sized latex doll

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Speaker 1: and the video of a young girl with a digitally

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Speaker 1: obscured face lifting up her shirt to expose midrift. In another,

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Speaker 1: a pizza hook commercial followed a video of a man

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Speaker 1: lying on a bed with its arm around with a

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Speaker 1: caption said was a ten year old girl. Disgusting. So

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Speaker 1: after the report dropped, Bumble and Match, which is the

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Speaker 1: parent company of the dating app Tender, actually suspended their

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Speaker 1: advertising across all Meta owned platforms. We have no desire

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Speaker 1: to pay meta, to market our brands to predators, or

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Speaker 1: place our ads anywhere near this content, said Match spokeswoman

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Speaker 1: just Sacho.

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Speaker 2: Justine Sacho, Why does that name sound familiar?

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Speaker 1: So, Justine Sacho, this is such an aside. The reason

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Speaker 1: why that name sounds similiar to you is from has

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Speaker 1: Justine landed yet? So Justine Sacho was this woman who

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Speaker 1: she's been working for Match Company or like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: since twenty fifteen. She was on a plane and she

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Speaker 1: tweeted something like, oh, on my way to Africa, hope

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Speaker 1: I don't get AIDS. Just kidding, I'm white. And then

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Speaker 1: she got on a plane to Africa and turned off

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Speaker 1: her phone. And I guess during this flight there was

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Speaker 1: like such pandemonium that I remember this so clearly. Has

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Speaker 1: Justine landed yet trended? Like people were like, we got

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Speaker 1: to meet her at the airport. This woman tweeted this

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Speaker 1: probably had no idea the like chaos that was happening online,

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Speaker 1: while she had probably had her phone off on this flight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's why that happened in twenty fifteen. That's why

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Speaker 1: Justine Sacho's name sounds familiar to you. And at the

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Speaker 1: time she worked for match Group, then still works for

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Speaker 1: match Group.

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Speaker 2: Now, damn that was her. I remember that story that

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Speaker 2: was It was obviously like a pretty offensive thing to tweet,

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Speaker 2: but the story itself was so hilarious because, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: whole internet firestorm like exploded while yeah she was probably

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Speaker 2: asleep and like tossing back cocktails on the flight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is the Internet lives forever. And when that happened,

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Speaker 1: when I followed that story in twenty fifteen, who would

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Speaker 1: have thunked that here in twenty twenty three, I'd be

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Speaker 1: citing her as as apokeswoman still at match Group. You know,

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Speaker 1: what can you say?

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Speaker 2: But you know, it seemed like, at least in this quote,

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Speaker 2: she's on the right side of justice.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's right. So the way that Meta is

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Speaker 1: responding to this is really similar to the episode that

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Speaker 1: we did recently breaking down Twitter's lawsuit against Media Matters,

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Speaker 1: where Twitter accused Media Matters of manufacturing the circumstances for

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Speaker 1: inappropriate content to be shown alongside ads because Media Matters

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Speaker 1: did probably make a dummy account where they followed a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Nazi accounts or at least interacted with them.

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Speaker 1: And then we're surfaced that kind of content by the platform.

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Speaker 1: Facebook's response is basically the same that the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal and the Canadian Center for Child Protection were only

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Speaker 1: surfaced this inappropriate content because it's what they were searching for.

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Speaker 1: In a statement, Meta said that the experience was quote manufactured, saying,

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Speaker 1: these results are based on a manufactured experience that does

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Speaker 1: not represent what billions of people around the world see

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Speaker 1: every single day when they use our products and services.

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Speaker 1: So basically, they're arguing that only a very small group

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Speaker 1: of people interested in content that sexualizes children and interested

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Speaker 1: in finding that content on their platform would be getting

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Speaker 1: that experience as a user.

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Speaker 2: It's a pretty weak defense, very weak, and to me, it.

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Speaker 1: Really goes back to what doctor Caroline or Bueno said

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Speaker 1: about Twitter, that these are a known thing called informational

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Speaker 1: dark spaces that occur when somebody combines search terms that

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Speaker 1: are probably not being searched by a ton of people,

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Speaker 1: but are being searched by bad actors, often extremists, people

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Speaker 1: who are interested in doing bad stuff online, and they

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Speaker 1: can coordinate in those spaces because generally people are not

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Speaker 1: really looking there and the powers that be aren't really

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Speaker 1: looking there either. So saying like oh well, only a

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Speaker 1: handful of people searching like very specific things would see

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Speaker 1: this is not really a way to address it, Like

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Speaker 1: these kinds of dark zones are easily exploited by bad

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Speaker 1: actors precisely because of that attitude that says that tech

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Speaker 1: platforms really don't need to be paying attention to them,

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Speaker 1: let alone solving for them. And I also think this

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Speaker 1: defense is really telling, Like part of me wonders if

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Speaker 1: this is another symptom of what I heard someone describe

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Speaker 1: as Musk contagion syndrome, where Elon Musk sort of sets

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Speaker 1: a tone and that other people in tech are like,

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Speaker 1: oh well, if Elon Musk is getting away with that,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'll do it too, because Musk really got

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Speaker 1: defensive when Media Matters pointed out, you know that anti

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Speaker 1: Semitic content on Twitter was showing up next to ads,

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Speaker 1: And that is how it sounds to me like these

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Speaker 1: facebooks books people are responding as well. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think, having done a lot of like platform

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Speaker 1: accountability work before, I haven't really heard Facebook respond in

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Speaker 1: this way, and so I do wonder if this is somehow,

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Speaker 1: you know, learning how to do it from Elon musk

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Speaker 1: or being like, oh, well, we could just get defensive

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Speaker 1: about it and be like, well, only a few people

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Speaker 1: are seeing that, rather than outlining how they are going

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Speaker 1: to fix it and taking accountability for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does sound exactly like what Twitter said. What

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Speaker 2: was it like last week or maybe the week before? Uh?

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Speaker 2: And I guess they kind of did get away with it,

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Speaker 2: So why wouldn't Meta just try the same defense. But

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Speaker 2: it's it's such a weak defense, And it's like, not

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Speaker 2: only is it a weak defense, but it's just morally

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Speaker 2: bankrupt right, Like they're serving up child sexual exploitation material.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they should try to like stop doing that. That

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Speaker 2: would make a lot more sense to me.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's ultimately my problem with the entire thing.

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Speaker 1: Like I am grateful to the Wall Street Journal for

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Speaker 1: staying on Facebook's neck in this way, because they've been

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Speaker 1: really doing a lot of good reporting about Facebook. And

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful to the Canadian Center for Child Protection. But

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Speaker 1: the thing that really gets me about even the framing

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Speaker 1: of this story is that it seems like the only

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Speaker 1: real way to make any noise about this is to

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Speaker 1: get brands to pressure platforms. It is great that these

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Speaker 1: brands are responding and like pulling their ads and you know,

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Speaker 1: letting these companies feel the heat. I think that's great,

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Speaker 1: but the fact of the matter is these platforms have

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Speaker 1: content that sexualized children on them and it shouldn't Like

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Speaker 1: I guess my concern is not that there would be

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Speaker 1: an ad for Tender next to that content. Like, I

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Speaker 1: think it's great that these brands are responding about how

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Speaker 1: inappropriate that is, but ultimately I don't think it should

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Speaker 1: take like a dating app getting upset for the platform

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Speaker 1: to address it publicly, And I think especially doing so

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Speaker 1: in such a defensive way just does it make me

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Speaker 1: think that it's something that these companies really see as

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Speaker 1: a problem insofar as it is not a problem for

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Speaker 1: them making money from these advertisers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. It fuels a little gross and

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Speaker 2: just strange that so much of this conversation is about

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Speaker 2: the impact on brands and how this kind of material

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Speaker 2: is going to cause brands to not advertise on a

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Speaker 2: certain platform. Like that makes sense as an organizing strategy

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Speaker 2: for organizations like Media Matters, but it feels like it

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Speaker 2: takes up an inappropriate amount of space, and the larger

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Speaker 2: conversation about why this is something that we should care about.

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Speaker 1: I could. I could not agree more. And it's like, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: Tinder and match Group and Bumble will be fine. They

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Speaker 1: have billions of dollars, They'll be okay. What about the

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Speaker 1: kids who are being exploited? What about the young people

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Speaker 1: who are in this content? What about like on Twitter?

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Speaker 1: What about the people who were harmed by the fact

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Speaker 1: that there is antisemit content on the platform? Like, I

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Speaker 1: guess I don't like that the brands responses. We're at

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Speaker 1: this point where the brands are like the voices that matter.

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Speaker 1: But it does seem to be the way it is

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Speaker 1: that like that is the way to get companies to

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Speaker 1: respond publicly, is like that bottom line, And I guess

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Speaker 1: it just makes me sad that that seems to be

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Speaker 1: the only way to get any kind of real accountability.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is said.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, speaking of Canada, we do have a quick

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Speaker 1: update on a story that we covered earlier this summer.

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Speaker 1: Y'all might remember that after Facebook threatened to and news

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Speaker 1: content on the platform to protest the Online News Act,

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Speaker 1: a Canadian law that would require Facebook and other tech

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Speaker 1: companies to pay news publishers, Facebook actually went through with

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Speaker 1: it and did ban news in Canada, so when you

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Speaker 1: shared a news story on Facebook or Instagram in Canada,

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Speaker 1: it just showed up as like a blacked out post.

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Speaker 1: And they did this before the law went into effect

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Speaker 1: during a really deadly wild fire season in Canada, which

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Speaker 1: actually prevented people from getting critical news about things like evacuation.

434
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: So really nice going, Mark Zuckerbird. Well, when this was

435
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: all going on, Google was similarly threatening to block news

436
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: in Canada. But now that is not going to happen

437
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: because Google announced on Wednesday that they will not be

438
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: pulling links to Canadian news outlets after all, Google and

439
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: the Canadian government came to an agreement. In a statement,

440
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: Google said, following extensive discussions, we are pleased if the

441
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: Government of Canada has committed to addressing our core issues

442
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: with the bill. We don't yet know the specifics of

443
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: this agreement. If we find out more, we will definitely

444
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: let you know. But a Google spokesperson did say that

445
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: the government addressed Google's previews concerns about creating quote uncapped

446
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: financial liability for linking articles, and a report indicates that

447
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: they will pay millions of dollars to publishers as part

448
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: of this deal.

449
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: Huh, so this is a story where people talk through

450
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 2: it like reasonable adults and reached an agreement that everyone

451
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: found acceptable.

452
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: It seems that way.

453
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: That's pretty great.

454
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: We don't get to report a lot on that.

455
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 2: I don't I don't really know what to say about it.

456
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 2: I like want to be sarcastic and cynical, but this

457
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: sounds kind of like a win.

458
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: You know, on this show, we always say we got

459
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: to take our w's where we can. It's true and

460
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: major shout out to the Verge for great reporting on

461
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: this whole situation.

462
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I thanks for bringing this up again. You know,

463
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,719
Speaker 2: I think this is a really important story, even though

464
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 2: it's in Canada. A lot of Americans don't spend a

465
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: lot of time thinking about Canada, but uh, you know,

466
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: it's pretty important country, pretty great country. And and uh,

467
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 2: I you know, I think they're really addressing some serious

468
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: issues with that bill about trying to get news organizations

469
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: paid for the content that social media platforms monetize. And uh,

470
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: and it's really nice to see that news seems like

471
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: news organizations are going to get paid and uh, Google

472
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: will continue to be able to return news results. It

473
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: seems like a win win.

474
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: I hope so, And like I said, if we get

475
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: more information, we will definitely let y'all know. So I

476
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: have another quick update for y'all. We did an episode

477
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: about TikTok shop and why it is taking over everyone's TikTok.

478
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: For you, Paige, Mike, I know you don't use TikTok,

479
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: but TikTok shop is like this very aggressive in app

480
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: shopping functionality that TikTok rolled out, and it's just like

481
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: ad after ad after ad after ad. So's it's like

482
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: regular sponsored content on top of TikTok shop ads that

483
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: are like seem like they're just regular TikTok's like oh,

484
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: I'm just your friend telling you about this really cool

485
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: body oil set or whatever on top of the regular ads.

486
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: So it's like ads city on TikTok right now?

487
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: Okay? Interesting? Are the ads good? Are they like relevant stuff?

488
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: Oh? What a good question? Sometimes sometimes I will say

489
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: tiktoks and we if folks want to know more, We

490
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: did an episode about this with a friend of mine, Tamika,

491
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: who goes by pretty critical on TikTok, who is the

492
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: most successful TikToker I know in real life? Some of

493
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: it so TikTok is sort of known for having an

494
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: algorithm that's supposed to like really be tailored to you

495
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: and who you are as a person and all of that.

496
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: I will say that TikTok, in my experience anecdotally, it's

497
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: good at knowing your insecurities and it is surfacing you

498
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: items to buy based on what it what it thinks

499
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: to your insecurities.

500
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: Are okay, interesting, You're like, that sounds awful. I don't

501
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: why it does. I mean, it sounds like an effective

502
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: way to sell stuff, but yeah, it sounds awful. Uh,

503
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 2: you're right, I don't. I'm not really on TikTok. I

504
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: look at Instagram more often, and you know, I do

505
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: have to hand it to them there. Their ads are

506
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: generally stuff that I'm interested in, Like they've cracked that code.

507
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: Oh the algorithms they know, they know. So in that episode,

508
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: we talked about some of the issues on the platform,

509
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: including sellers selling unsafe and counterfeit products. Well, literally right

510
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: after that episode was published, a bunch of TikTok creators

511
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: woke up to find their TikTok shops disabled. Overnight, TikTok

512
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: cracked down on thousands of sellers who were allegedly selling

513
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: illegal goods on the platform right before Black Friday. This

514
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: means the money that they made on the platform that

515
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: was in their TikTok account they can no longer access now. Honestly,

516
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: this might be a little bit of a fue go take,

517
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: so hear me out. Generally, I have a lot of

518
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: sympathy for people who feel like they have been harmed

519
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: by big tech platforms. Generally, like usually that's how I

520
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: show up. However, I gotta say I don't really feel

521
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: bad for these people. You know, I would definitely be

522
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: pissed if I had actual money in a TikTok account

523
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: that I could not access, So like, I get that,

524
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: but this is a consequence, And I would argue an

525
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: obvious consequence of selling illegal goods online. You just can't

526
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: do that, Like, I like part of me. I remember

527
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: when I was like researching for that episode and just

528
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: my experiences of being on TikTok, I would be like, Wow,

529
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: when is TikTok going to crack down on this? It

530
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: is only a matter of time. As we discussed in

531
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: that episode, some of the things that they that people

532
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: were selling weren't just counterfeit goods. Like, I don't really

533
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: care if, like you know, Christian Dior is losing money

534
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: because somebody is counterfeiting their perfume. Some of the stuff

535
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: they were selling were genuinely harmful, right, beauty products that

536
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: had ingredients that you actually need to talk to a

537
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: doctor to get, or counterfeit goods that actually had led

538
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: in them, Like I think somebody was selling Stanley tumblers

539
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: that were knockoffs that weren't safe, and so people could

540
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: be selling things that could actually make you sick and

541
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: hurt you. And I don't really feel a lot of

542
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: sympathy for people facing consequences for using TikTok to do that,

543
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: And if TikTok had not cracked down on it, they

544
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: were obviously risking being fined as a platform. So what

545
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting about this whole conversation is

546
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: that I've seen so many creators on TikTok complaining about

547
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: this being like I woke up and my TikTok shop

548
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: was banned, like in credulous as to how their shop

549
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: could have been banned. I will say this, TikTok does

550
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: use kind of an opaque point system where if you

551
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: get a certain number of points, then you're banned from

552
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: using selling on TikTok Shop, which I don't really agree with.

553
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: I think that if you're violating a rule, there should

554
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: be transparency from the side of the platform about what

555
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 1: rule you broke, how you broke it, and like in

556
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: what way you were going to face consequences. So, like,

557
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: I can kind of understand why some of these people

558
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: felt like they didn't get enough warning. If they went

559
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: to bed and they had three violation points and then

560
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: they woke up and they had over the limit of

561
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: violation points that led to their platform being shut down.

562
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: I get why people feel like they were not adequately warned.

563
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: But I also have seen people say, like I wasn't

564
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong, Like I was just selling things that

565
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: I made, And it's like, yeah, the things that you

566
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: were making were obviously knock off Stanley tumblers, but you

567
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: were then putting a Disney logo on, so like that's

568
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: the claim right there, Like it's copyright claim, right So

569
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: like you would go to these people's pages and it's like, oh, well,

570
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: those obviously you were selling knockoff Lululemon. That's why you

571
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: got popped for it. And so I think the vibe

572
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: around people being like like I saw someone say that

573
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: they felt like TikTok was targeting small, smaller creators, and

574
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think that people are being targeted,

575
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: Like I think that people were genuinely doing something illegal

576
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: and that TikTok did not want to get fined themselves.

577
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: And I think that TikTok probably saw Black Friday as

578
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: a big test to how their shopping functionality was going

579
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: to go, and they knew they had to get some

580
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: of these people selling illegal and counterfeit goods off the

581
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: platform before that happened.

582
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense, And I mean there are still

583
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: Congress people talking about trying to ban TikTok, so I

584
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: can imagine that's another incentive the platform might have to

585
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: crack down on illegal activity happening on the platform, and

586
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: not just illegal activity, but like illegal commercial activity, right,

587
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: Like that's one of the most flagrant illegal things you

588
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: can do, is like sell illegal stuff.

589
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: A legal commercial activity that runs a foul of Disney.

590
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: Of all the people that I would not want their

591
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: lawyers on my back, Disney is a problem. It's like

592
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: it might not be number one, but it's up there.

593
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: They literally wrote our copyright laws.

594
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: Is that true?

595
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, people call it the

596
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse Act. It's like it what was it like,

597
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety ninety eight, ninety nine. It like because Mickey

598
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: Mouse was about to become public domain and Disney aggressively

599
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: lobbied to pass this like sweeping overhaul of copyright law

600
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 2: to like extend their their copyright on Mickey Mouse and

601
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: like other stuff. And so I mean it's a little

602
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: facetious to say that they like wrote the entirety of

603
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: US copyright law, but US copyright law is very much

604
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: shaped by Disney's lawyers and lobbyists.

605
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're a TikToker that has seven thousand followers,

606
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: what makes you think they're like of course, of course,

607
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: of course TikTok doesn't want that smoke, Like, of course.

608
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: Who woulds I guess.

609
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: He did for a little bit, and then he was like,

610
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: can't we all just get along, Like I.

611
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: Think we can call it good.

612
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: Please, Let's just agree mistakes were made on both sides

613
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: and go our separate ways.

614
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: We're cool, right, right, right?

615
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: So I do think, I mean, I think the conversation

616
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: that TikTokers were having about like how they didn't understand

617
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: what they had done wrong and all of that. I

618
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: think that is a symptom of a larger issue, which

619
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: is when the online retail landscape is full of drop

620
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: shippers and people selling stuff who really have no business

621
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: in retail, like we really don't know what they're doing.

622
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: Like if you don't understand that you are selling an

623
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: illegally copyrighted knock off, I don't think that you should

624
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: be like like running a TikTok shop, right, And so

625
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: we cited a piece in The Atlantic in the episode

626
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: that we did about TikTok Shop called the Junk Has Won.

627
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: How on platforms like TikTok shop, you know, TikTok is

628
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: not responsible for finding, marketing, packaging, selling and shipping the items,

629
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: but they're taking a cut of the items sold while

630
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: pushing that on to a third party. And so this model,

631
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: of course is going to come with issues like people

632
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: selling knockoffs or illegal goods or just thinks not being

633
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: on the up and up because it's incentivized by the platform, right,

634
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: TikTok moves so quickly whatever the trendy new thing is,

635
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: whether it's a body oil or a workout set, or

636
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: a tumbler or whatever. The demand for it is so

637
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: churn and burn that it doesn't surprise me that people

638
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: who are just like trying to make money are turning

639
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: to sketchy knockoffs and sketchy counterfeit goods just to ride

640
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: that wave. And I do think it's incentivized by how

641
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: the platform works. So maybe this is TikTok's attempt to

642
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: course correct on this TBD. However, the one piece of

643
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: advice I can give to anybody out there who is

644
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: thinking about doing this is don't run a foul of

645
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: the FTC because they will come after you. This is

646
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: very serious. I think that people think that like, oh, well,

647
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: I'm just a small creator. It doesn't matter if I

648
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: don't follow the rules. It absolutely does matter. And this

649
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: stuff is like serious and like you can wind up

650
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: with fines or worse. So yeah, don't mess with Disney,

651
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: don't mess with the FTC. Stay on the up and up,

652
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: trust me, trust me?

653
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't scam people, right like, don't sell fake stuff.

654
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I we might have different opinions about

655
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: this because I feel like, do I really care if

656
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: Lululemon is losing money? I mean, I guess it's not great.

657
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: But like I mean, I don't know that you even

658
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 2: need to care about Lulu Lemon, but like think about

659
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: the person who's buying it, who thinks that they're buying

660
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: like legit Lulu Lemon garment, and then it arrives and

661
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: it's definitely not that right.

662
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: But why would Lululemon be six dollars, It's like one

663
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.

664
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: So you're saying they should know better.

665
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they should know better. I'm sare I

666
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: can't I get I'm feeling defensive, maybe because I'm I

667
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: can't sit here and say that I don't have some

668
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: knockoff items. Maybe a few of us have bought a

669
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: knockoff handbag here and there, not on TikTok shop, or

670
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: I bought it as my business. Maybe people that I

671
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: know have bought a couple of knockoff items in their day,

672
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: and they were looking for knockoff items, and they procure

673
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: knockoff items and knock off items they happily have. Maybe

674
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: that's the situation.

675
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: Well, you know, in that situation, that's different from what

676
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: I was talking about, where somebody was being deceived. If

677
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: both the seller and the buyer. Everybody understands that it's

678
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: a knockoff item. That's one situation. But if you know,

679
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: if the buyer is being deceived and thinking that they're

680
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: buying a legit but it is actually a knockoff item,

681
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: then you've got deception happening, and now you're in unethical territory.

682
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: That's fair, that's fair.

683
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 3: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

684
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: Speaking of unethical deceptive behavior, what's going on as Sports Illustrated.

685
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a very weird story. There's already been

686
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: a couple of cases of media outlets publishing bad, inaccurate

687
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: AI generated content. It happened at av club and BuzzFeed.

688
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: But what's happening at Sports Illustrated is really something. So

689
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: the tech media outlet Futurism found that Sports Illustrated not

690
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: only published AI generated pieces, but also attributed those pieces

691
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: to fake journalists with fake names and fake very specific bios,

692
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: whose head shots were all found on a website that

693
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: sells AI generated headshots. Futurism spoke to somebody at Sports

694
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Illustrated who didn't want to be named for obvious reasons,

695
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: who said, this happens all the time this person said

696
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot they told us of the fake authors.

697
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: I was like, what are they? This is ridiculous. This

698
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: person does not exist. At the bottom of the page,

699
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: there would be a photo of a person and some

700
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: fake description of them, like, oh, John lives in Houston, Texas.

701
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: He loves yard games and hanging out with his dog Sam,

702
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: stuff like that. It's just crazy.

703
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 2: Do you think they like ab tested where John lives

704
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: and whether he has a dog or a cat and

705
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: what the pet's name is.

706
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: I feel like something is going on because I looked

707
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: at some of the bios and they're all so specific,

708
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: like something is. They've done something, whether it's ab testing

709
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 1: to figure out what people like or what works or whatever.

710
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: Something's up.

711
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: We got twenty percent more reads when he lived in

712
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 2: Houston than Saint Louis.

713
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Swap that dog out for a cat and we're good

714
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: to go. So you might be asking yourself, are the

715
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: articles any good? Well, they kind of someone they were

716
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: written by aliens. Here's one line from an AI generated

717
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: neutral white young adult male with short brown hair and

718
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: blue eyes, as he is described in the AI headshot

719
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: website where his image came from. Drew Ortiz is the journalist.

720
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 2: Wait, Drew Ortiz is a neutral, white, young adult male

721
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: with short brown hair and blue eyes.

722
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: That's correct, that's how Drew Ortiz, the journalist is described

723
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: on this AI headshot website. Sure so Ortez warns that

724
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: the sport of volleyball quote can be a little tricky

725
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: to get into, especially without an actual ball to practice with.

726
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: Wait, what happened to his ball?

727
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: They have them on the planet floor lawn.

728
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: All he wanted to do was move to Earth and

729
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: practice volleyball.

730
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: Futurism reached out to the magazine's publisher, the Arena Group.

731
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: Suddenly all of the articles were deleted. That's suspicious.

732
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: Maybe they were beamed up.

733
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: So after Futurism published their report, the Arena Group did

734
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: put out a statement. The statement is I'll just let

735
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: y'all decide for yourselves. Today. In articles published a leging

736
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: that Sports Illustrated published AI generated articles. According to our

737
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: initial investigation, this is not accurate. The articles in question

738
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: were product reviews and were licensed content from an external

739
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: third party company, Advon Commerce. A number of Advon's e

740
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: commerce articles ran on certain arena websites. We continually monitor

741
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: partners and we're in the midst of review. When these

742
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: allegations were raised, ADVON has assured us that all of

743
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: the articles in question were written and edited by humans.

744
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: According to ADVON, their writers, editors and researchers create and

745
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: curate content, and follow up policy that involves using counter

746
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: plagiarism and counter AI software on all content. However, we

747
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: have learned that Advon had writers use a pen or

748
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: pseudonym in certain articles to protect author privacy actions we

749
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: don't condone and are removing the content while our internal

750
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: investigation continues and have such ended the partnership. Weird.

751
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: So they were protecting author privacy in the article about volleyball.

752
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: That's right, that is some sensitive stuff you can't have.

753
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: You think, Drew Ortiz, this neutral, blue eyed guy is

754
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: gonna have his name. He's a dog owner from Texas, Mike,

755
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: you think he needs this eat?

756
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: He just wants to contemplate practicing volleyball in the privacy

757
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 2: of his own Texan home.

758
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: So it honestly sounds like their big investigation into this

759
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: was like asking this company like, hey, are these articles

760
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: AI generated? And Edbaum was like nah, and they were

761
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: like okay, cool. And what's also weird? Is there a statement.

762
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, it was humans, it was actual humans

763
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: using pen names. They don't address why they would need

764
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: to be using pen names for like articles about volleyball.

765
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: They also don't address why their pictures were from AI

766
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: headshot vendors either. Like the whole thing just stinks to

767
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: high Heaven to me.

768
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's obviously nonsense, Like they were in the middle

769
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: of a review when the allegations were raised. Why they're

770
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: just like constantly reviewing everything that their vendor writes for them.

771
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: It's so silly. And I think that, like, as ridiculous

772
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: as this is, like, at the end of the day,

773
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 1: readers do deserve to be told that the content they're

774
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: reading is AI generated or if it's written by a human.

775
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: I think, like, I don't want to empathize with like

776
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: neutral blue eyed Drew Ortiz if he's not a real person.

777
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: I deserve to know if he's a real person or not.

778
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: And I do think, you know, as funny as all

779
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: this is, it does underscore how I've been a feeling

780
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: about the state of the Internet lately, where everything feels

781
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: like a scam or a lie to make somebody money.

782
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: Like it sounds like these reviews. Probably Sports Illustrated might

783
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: get a kickback if people like click through or like

784
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: buy the thing or whatever. And I just feel like,

785
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: how can anybody trust anything they come across online in

786
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: a digital landscape like that?

787
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, you know, it's a funny story about

788
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: Drew and his dreams of someday touching a volleyball, but

789
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: it is kind of a bleak story about how uh like,

790
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: what the hell is anything?

791
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: The futurism Peace put it really well. They wrote, the

792
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: undisclosed AI content is a director front to the fabric

793
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: of media ethics. In other words, not to mention a

794
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: perfect recipe for eroding reader trust. At the end of

795
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: the day, it's just remarkably irresponsible behavior that we shouldn't

796
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: see anywhere, let alone normalized by a high visibility publisher.

797
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: It does scare me that, like, this is the way

798
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: the Internet is going. Just AI generate a gobbledebook that

799
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense, scams and platforms just trying to

800
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: generate revenue.

801
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a weird time for the Internet. It

802
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: does feel like everything is lies and scams and deception.

803
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: And you know, when you think about brands like Sports

804
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: Illustrated that aren't actually real media outlets but do have

805
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: like big brand visibility doing stuff like this where they're

806
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: just lying and purporting that their articles are written by

807
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: humans when they're AI. You kind of can't blame those

808
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: TikTok creators for getting in on the action and doing

809
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: some illegal scammy stuff of their own, right, Like if

810
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: everybody else is doing it, why not them?

811
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's a hate the game,

812
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: not the player kind of situation where it's like it's

813
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: hard for me. I don't necessarily feel sympathy for TikTok

814
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: creators who are like scamming people, but I do think

815
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: that it is they are but small players in a

816
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: larger system of scams and exploitation that I think people

817
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: have come to expect online and it's really a problem.

818
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: And I will say Sports Illustrated today, I don't think

819
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: is like a like a well respected publication, certainly high visible.

820
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: John Updike used to publish there, like it is an

821
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: organization that had a legacy, And I think what an

822
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: outlet like Sports Illustrated that did have a legacy starts

823
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: doing this kind of thing where they're just like turning

824
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: out fake AI volleyball stories by not Alien Drew Ortiz.

825
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: It really says something about how far we've fallen. I hope,

826
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: I genuinely hope and kind of believe that we will

827
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: get to a better place, a place where people can

828
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: trust what they read online, trust that it is written

829
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: by humans, trust that it has been vetted, trusted it

830
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: is accurate. When you cook a link, it's not going

831
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: to be some sort of scale or bot or some

832
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: other kind of exploitation. It is going to be actual information,

833
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: actual connection, because we deserve it.

834
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get there.

835
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: So we are actually working on an episode right now

836
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: that I'm really excited about all about just what I

837
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: was just talking about, AI generated fake women in tech

838
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: to catfish people into checking out a tech conference. If

839
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: you heard about that story or saw it popping off

840
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter, it was a real doozy. So yeah, rest assured.

841
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: We saw it too. We were going to talk about

842
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: it on the newscast, but honestly, I have so much

843
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: to say about it that it was it would have

844
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: been the whole newscast. So we're doing a whole episode

845
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,439
Speaker 1: about it. Keep an eye out for that next week.

846
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: If you know what I'm talking about, If you know

847
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: you know. If you don't know, trust me, it is

848
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: a wild ride. You're gonna want to listen. I'm very

849
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it.

850
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to hear that that's going to be

851
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: a good one.

852
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: Also, it is officially Spotify Rap Season. Happy Spotify Rap Season, Mike.

853
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bridget Happy Spotify Rap Season to you as well.

854
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: So over on the Patreon, we're digging into Spotify Rapped

855
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: and I'm exposing my own Spotify Rapped most Played songs.

856
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: I did it on the main feed I think like

857
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: last year, and it was really embarrassing. Uh, this year,

858
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: I have to put it behind the Patreon because I'm

859
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: it's it's not great. I'll give I'll give folks a

860
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: little hint third eye blind. I'll leave it there. Can

861
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: check it out at tangody dot com slash Patreon.

862
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in addition to Spotify Rap Season, it is

863
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 2: now officially holiday season since Thanksgiving has passed, and folks

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00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: can get some sweet Tangoty merch for everybody in their

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00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: gift giving list at tangoty dot com slash store. Check

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00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: it out.

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Speaker 1: We're throwing all the plugs. Yeah, this bye this by

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00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: our crap people.

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00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: If we started with banter, plug and stuff, at the end, we're.

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00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: Really like polishing this podcast up all of the stuff.

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00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 2: We should get some AI in here to like write

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00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 2: the content for us.

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Speaker 1: I know a guy, Drew Ortiz, neutral, blue eyed human

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00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: male in search of volleyball one day.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me here, Bridget. This was fun.

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00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the banter, I enjoyed the news U, and

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00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the friendship.

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00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: See you on the Internet. If you're looking for ways

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00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: to support the show, check out our mark store at

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00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: tenggodi dot com, slash store. Got a story about an

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00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi,

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00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tenggodi dot com.

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00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody

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00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

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00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: created by me Bridget con. It's a production of iHeartRadio

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00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as

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00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

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00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

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00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review.

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Speaker 3: Us on Apple Podcasts.

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00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

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00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.