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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece damning evidence pouring from the

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Speaker 1: witness stand in the trial of cultmom Laurie Valo. The

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Speaker 1: jury has just heard a very disturbing phone call where

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Speaker 1: husband number what is it, Jackie number four or five?

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with four husband number four. The

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Speaker 1: prophet Chad day Bell is speaking to Laurie Valoe as

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Speaker 1: authorities frantically search his farm and are honing in on

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Speaker 1: a so called pet cemetery, looking desperately for the remains

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Speaker 1: a little seven year old JJ and teen sister Tyley,

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Speaker 1: and you hear him in a tapped phone call talking

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Speaker 1: to cult mom saying, I'm feeling pretty calm. Well, I

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Speaker 1: bet they're not calm right now. I mean, Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to start off with those calls. Now listen,

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Speaker 1: they're very grainy, So listen to Chad day Belle speaking

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Speaker 1: to Lorie Value. So, so yeah, I'm very nice. Let no, no, sorry, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got to bring in our experts and first I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna just go to them individually. First, I want to

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Speaker 1: go to journalist and author of When the Moon Turns

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Speaker 1: to Blood, Lorie Valo Chad day Belle in a story

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Speaker 1: of murder, Wild Fate, and End Times, the star of

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Speaker 1: podcast two minutes past nine and Bundyville Leah Stilli is

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Speaker 1: joining us. She's been on this story from the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: I remember, it's not a story. I'm as spoke. This

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Speaker 1: is real. You couldn't make this up, Uh, Leah. You

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Speaker 1: know if my husband David called me and said police

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Speaker 1: are searching the property, what why are police searching our property? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm on the way right now. These two didn't seem

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Speaker 1: at all concerned. Hey, Lea's Attilie. Have you ever seen cops?

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Speaker 1: You know? Isn't that the name of a bad boys?

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Speaker 1: Bad boys? Get that? And there'll be a guy sitting

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Speaker 1: in his easy chair in the dan having a beer,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, cops start running through pursue

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Speaker 1: it to search one, of course, and he just keeps

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Speaker 1: drinking the beer. It's nothing new to him. Cops have

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Speaker 1: been in his house searching many many times, obviously, so

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Speaker 1: he just says there, keeps watching TV. It's like these

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Speaker 1: two nobody seems surprised that the cops are there tearing

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Speaker 1: up his property. Yeah, I think that, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a sobering phone call in the way that this case,

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Speaker 1: entire case is sobering at the lack of urgency that

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Speaker 1: Chad and Laurie had, at all the seeming emergencies that

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Speaker 1: the rest of us can recognize happening around them. And

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Speaker 1: you hear in this phone call Chad and Laurie picking

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Speaker 1: their words very carefully. It makes me think, you know,

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Speaker 1: at that point, Laurie was in jail and this phone

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Speaker 1: call was maybe maybe new, this phone call was being recorded.

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Speaker 1: They're being very careful about what they're saying. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with you. If somebody said they

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Speaker 1: were searching the property, you'd think, well, for what. So

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Speaker 1: there's a profound lack of panic in Marie VALA's voice.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good way to put it. A profound

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Speaker 1: lack of panic. You know. I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Rich Robertson, Arizona based private investigator for Brandon Boudreau and

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Speaker 1: the grandparents owner of our three investigations. Rich Robertson, do

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Speaker 1: you hear their voices? You know what? Rich? Hold on,

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Speaker 1: let me play call number two I've got more listen

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Speaker 1: you see science right? Well right, okay, do you want

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Speaker 1: me to pray? Yeah? Pray? What about it? Rich Robertson, Well,

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Speaker 1: I agree with Leah. The lack of urgency in both

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Speaker 1: of them, I think is is because they both know

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Speaker 1: that this is a recorded phone call from Laurie being

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Speaker 1: in jail, so they're using somewhat coded language between the

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Speaker 1: two of them. But I think what struck me the

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Speaker 1: most was how uncharismatic Chad Dave Bell sounds to me.

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Speaker 1: Just he just kind of comes across as a dim bulb.

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Speaker 1: You know. I'm just trying to take in the sound

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Speaker 1: of their voices. This is exactly what the jury is hearing.

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Speaker 1: I've got one more call. Let's take a listen, m

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Speaker 1: please go very home. I don't how Marvel so him

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Speaker 1: and yeah, all right, okay call him? Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: how from somebody else who needs to talk through my life?

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Speaker 1: This hire? Um? I am? I don't know, um can

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Speaker 1: try yeah, call say, Which brings me to the question

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Speaker 1: was it all worth it? Was it all worth it

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Speaker 1: to have your sham marriage so you could what sleep

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Speaker 1: with Laurie Valo? The cult? Mom? Was it worth it?

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Speaker 1: And the backdrop to hearing this calm phone conversation is

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Speaker 1: that her two children are missing. Of course, now we

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Speaker 1: know dead and Chad Day Belle's backyard. Right now, the

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Speaker 1: jury is hearing evidence. The cases have been severed. In

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Speaker 1: other words, day Bell and Laurie Valo's cases are going

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Speaker 1: to be tried separately. Don't know if this jury's ever

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Speaker 1: going to even see Chad day Bell. That said, Laurie

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Speaker 1: Valo is taking the plungs first. That's her doing because

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Speaker 1: she filed a demand for speedy trial, which she never withdrew,

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Speaker 1: and that is why her case is going now. Lea's

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Speaker 1: attility joining us a well known journalist and author, Leah

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Speaker 1: what is her cult mom? Laurie VALA's demeanor in court,

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's been two things for the

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Speaker 1: most part. When she gets there in the morning, she's smiling,

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Speaker 1: she's kind of flipping her hair, um, sort of giggling

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Speaker 1: as the officers that bring her in chain her feet

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Speaker 1: to the floor and kind of, you know, participate in

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Speaker 1: this process of shackling her. But when it changed dramatically

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Speaker 1: when we saw the photos of jj Entily, the autopsy photos,

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Speaker 1: they were absolutely harrowing. She did not want to be

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom, and all of a sudden she changed,

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Speaker 1: She crossed her arm, she turned her body away, so

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Speaker 1: no one in the courtroom, probably besides the judge could

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Speaker 1: see her face, and slowly she kind of crumpled onto

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Speaker 1: one arm, and it looked to me I couldn't see

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Speaker 1: her face, but it did look to me like she

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Speaker 1: fell asleep, fell asleep. Was she just closing her eyes

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Speaker 1: or did she actually fall asleep? Hard to know. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't see her face, but she was very still and

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Speaker 1: sitting in the same position for quite a while, probably

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty minutes or more. So, yeah, hard to know,

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Speaker 1: but it was pretty profound that when she didn't get

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Speaker 1: her way to leave the courtroom, that she, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whispering, the talking, the smiling at her attorneys stopped

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Speaker 1: completely and she just sort of folded into herself in

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Speaker 1: her chair. Now, when you said she wanted to leave

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Speaker 1: the courtroom, I thought you met she acted like she

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Speaker 1: wanted to leave. Are you saying she made an official

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Speaker 1: request to leave the courtroom during the trial? She did. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So in the morning we were hearing from Detective ray

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Speaker 1: Hermscio with expert police department who discovered was one of

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Speaker 1: the officers that discovered the bodies of the children on

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Speaker 1: Chad Babel's property, and it was pretty clear what we

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Speaker 1: were leading up to. We were going to see a

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Speaker 1: presentation of photos of those bodies. The judge broke for lunch,

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Speaker 1: everyone left, and when we came back from lunch, there

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Speaker 1: was quite a bit of frenzy in the courtroom where

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Speaker 1: the attorneys went back into a private hallway with Laurie.

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Speaker 1: The prosecutors joined them. You know, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of buzz about what maybe was going to happen, and

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Speaker 1: then arguments were presented to the judge. Why why the defendant?

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Speaker 1: Why Laurie did not want to stay in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Her attorneys argued that her mental health was very fragile,

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Speaker 1: as we know because this case has been delayed so much.

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Speaker 1: But she, um, yeah, she didn't. She didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be there. She didn't want to be there for this

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Speaker 1: extremely difficult thing to see, you know, for everyone, she

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Speaker 1: didn't want to sit there and look, and to be honest,

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Speaker 1: I don't think she did ever look at the street

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Speaker 1: to see those photos. So I was going to ask

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Speaker 1: Yulia Settilli, who has been in the courtroom from the

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Speaker 1: very beginning, Leah, I have never seen a defendant's fate

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Speaker 1: chained to the floor. Was that in front of the

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Speaker 1: jury to the jury see the chains. The jury could not,

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Speaker 1: so it was pretty interesting. In other cases I've covered,

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Speaker 1: you know, you hear the the ankle shackles of the

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Speaker 1: defendant being brought in, and the kind of clink and

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. She had some kind of

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Speaker 1: there was some sort of fabric around this chain, so

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Speaker 1: it didn't make any noise. So essentially she was brought

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Speaker 1: into the courtroom, she would go and stand at the

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Speaker 1: table that the defendant's table, and an officer would would

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Speaker 1: affix those that that fabric covered chain to a loop

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Speaker 1: on the ground, and then the jury would come in.

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Speaker 1: As far as I know, I don't think that the

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Speaker 1: jury could see underneath the table that she was sitting at,

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Speaker 1: so I don't think they could see that she has chained.

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Speaker 1: You know, certainly her hands are I find that really unusual,

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Speaker 1: Leiah Setili. They must consider her some sort of a

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Speaker 1: flight risk. Well, it's a murder trial, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's also Idaho, you know, things are a

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Speaker 1: little different there, so maybe somebody else would be able

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Speaker 1: to speak to that. Well, it may be different, but

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Speaker 1: they are still governed by the US Constitution, and that

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Speaker 1: includes the case law that has interpreted it. So David

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Speaker 1: Leroy joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out of Idaho,

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Speaker 1: the former Idaho Attorney General and former Lieutenant Governor, David Leroy,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've never seen a

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Speaker 1: defendant shackled in any way in front of a jury.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I, as a prosecutor who knew beyond even

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Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt the defendant was guilty of

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Speaker 1: let's just say, murder, I would go to great pains

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Speaker 1: to make sure the jury never saw the defendant in shackles,

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Speaker 1: handcuffs and a jail uniform. Absolutely not, because that could

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Speaker 1: later affect the appeal. I think I cared more about

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Speaker 1: it than anybody else in the courtroom because I did

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Speaker 1: not want to fight for a true verdict and then

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Speaker 1: have a reversal on appeal because the jury saw a

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Speaker 1: pair of handcuffs. Well, this is very unusual, even in Idaho,

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Speaker 1: way out here in the West. Look, I don't like

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Speaker 1: people talking like Idaho is some backwater swamplan. Idaho is

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Speaker 1: no different than any other state in the Union, and

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Speaker 1: Idaho is subject to all of the interpretations of the

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Speaker 1: Constitution that have been upheld by the US Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: So this is nancy, very unusual. The defense has the

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Speaker 1: right to have ordinary street clothing for the defendant. They've

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Speaker 1: not apparently chosen to do that here the shackles. I

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Speaker 1: don't know whether we're debated between the judge, the prosecution,

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Speaker 1: and the defense, but I wouldn't think that she's particularly

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Speaker 1: a flight risk, and so it is unusual, and I

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Speaker 1: have no explanation for why that's being done in this

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Speaker 1: pecular case. Well, David Leroy, let's think this thing through.

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Speaker 1: We already know that she threw a fit when the

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Speaker 1: judge would not let her leave during the trial. And

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Speaker 1: can I tell you something. The judge is right because

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Speaker 1: if she had been allowed to lead during the trial

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Speaker 1: later on appeal, if there is a conviction, she could argue,

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Speaker 1: I missed part of my trial. That's unconstitutional. I have

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Speaker 1: a right to be there that for every single thing

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Speaker 1: that happens, And she would be right. Oh, absolutely has

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Speaker 1: to stay for her trial. Judge Boyce has manifested the

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Speaker 1: excellent control of this courtroom. Our Idaho criminal Rule forty

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Speaker 1: three gives a defendant both the right and the responsibility

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Speaker 1: to be present at all significant stages of a felony case.

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Speaker 1: So the judge, I agree with you did the right

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Speaker 1: thing and exercising his sound discretion not to allow her

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Speaker 1: to be removed from the courtroom. That exchange between defendant

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Speaker 1: and lawyer about a piece of evidence, about an objection

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Speaker 1: about something that comes up in the courtroom takes instance,

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Speaker 1: or if she's not there, some appealable issue. Well, here's

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Speaker 1: another thing, David Leroy, let's follow this train of thought

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Speaker 1: through to its logical conclusion. We know that Coltman Laurie

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Speaker 1: Valoe wants desperately to gather the courtroom. She doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to see photos off her dead children, burned, buried, tyingly,

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Speaker 1: reduced to literally a bucket of burned fat. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to see that. Well, I would argue she should

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Speaker 1: have thought about that before she had them killed. But

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Speaker 1: that said, can't you just see her making a break

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Speaker 1: for it in the middle of the presentation, and that

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Speaker 1: would lead to a mistrial, hung jury, a problem, a reversal.

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Speaker 1: So maybe those shackles, which to her benefit are covered

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Speaker 1: in fabric and obscured from the jury's vision, it's actually

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Speaker 1: saving her from another trial and from some outburst that

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Speaker 1: she would very likely producing court. I think it's also

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Speaker 1: important from the prosecution's point of view for the jurors,

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Speaker 1: who are having dreadful personal reactions to this horrific evidence,

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Speaker 1: to see Laurie's reaction to that horrific evidence. She has

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Speaker 1: been manifesting atypical emotions all the way through this thing,

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Speaker 1: from the first appearances on. To observe her in this

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Speaker 1: context I think was probably important for the prosecution. Arguably,

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Speaker 1: I guess the defense could try to make some kind

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Speaker 1: of argument based on that, but it's pretty thin soup,

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Speaker 1: you know, to Lea's Attilly joining us, who has been

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Speaker 1: covering the case as it unfold, is she wearing street

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Speaker 1: clothes or no, she is. She is wearing street clothes.

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Speaker 1: That day she was wearing sort of a powder pink

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Speaker 1: blouse and a pair of trousers. She came back after

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Speaker 1: losing this fight to leave the courtroom with a sweater

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Speaker 1: on that she sort of hugged around her body. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she is wearing street clothes. Though. Was there any argument

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Speaker 1: between the lawyers in front of the judge regarding her

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Speaker 1: wearing leg shackles. No, I haven't heard it. If that happened,

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Speaker 1: it would have happened before the trial started. Time Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the trial

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Speaker 1: of cultman Laurie Valor, and it's been a long time coming,

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Speaker 1: you know, to doctor Dana Anderson joining us forensic psychologist

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Speaker 1: expert and you can find her at psychology doctor dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Anderson, thank you for being with us. What do

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Speaker 1: you make of a woman that many, including myself, fully

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Speaker 1: believe orchestrated the murders offer two children as well as

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Speaker 1: the murder of her new husband's last wife, not wanting

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Speaker 1: to refusing to look at the photos of her dead

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Speaker 1: children's remains, and that's all they are remains. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen this as I interview defendants and custody. They

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Speaker 1: do not want to be confronted with the truth, especially

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Speaker 1: when they know so she's created this delusion, this sort

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Speaker 1: of narcissistic delusion, and she's to avoid personal responsibility. Narcissist

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Speaker 1: don't want to be confronted with the truth. They're just

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Speaker 1: going to deny it the gaslight. They don't want to

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Speaker 1: look at anything that you confront them with because underneath

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Speaker 1: that tightly wound delusion that they've created, they underneath that

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Speaker 1: that's we don't want to expose who they really are

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Speaker 1: because when you break that down, underneath there those emotions

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Speaker 1: that they're compartmentalizing right now, Underneath there there's anger, rage,

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Speaker 1: there's other things they don't want to be rebuilt. So

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Speaker 1: her escape route is not looking at it and denying

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Speaker 1: the exists. She's still telling herself, like her narcissistic side

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Speaker 1: of herself, that that this didn't happen. She's just going

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Speaker 1: to deny it and compartmentalize all her emotions. And so

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Speaker 1: to look at it would make her confront what really

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Speaker 1: happened to her children, and she doesn't want to do that. Jackie,

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Speaker 1: let's go to cut one sixty one. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: what cult mom Lorie Valoe refuses to look at. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen. Onund sixty one. She's found buried in a

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Speaker 1: shallow grave on Chad day Bel's property. And when I

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Speaker 1: say she's found, what I mean is what was left

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Speaker 1: of Tyley was found charred remains, that's what was left

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Speaker 1: of Tyle. You will hear it described as a mass

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Speaker 1: of bone and tissue. That's what was left of this

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Speaker 1: beautiful young woman, the defendant's daughter. You will also hear

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Speaker 1: how Tyle's DNA was recovered on a pick, pickaxe, and shovel.

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Speaker 1: They located in a shed on defendant day Belle's property. Okay,

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Speaker 1: straight back to Louis Attilly. That's new events to many

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Speaker 1: people that have been watching this case unfold. Tyle's body tissue,

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Speaker 1: her DNA was found on a pickaxe and a shovel

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Speaker 1: on husband number four, the prophet Chad day Bel's property.

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Speaker 1: Could you explain to where that was found? What could

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Speaker 1: you tell us? Yeah, that was that was new information

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Speaker 1: for me to hear too. It sort of was a

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Speaker 1: part of this um you know, amalgam of material that

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Speaker 1: we received in the courtroom, which was that this pickaxe

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Speaker 1: had some Entily's DNA. And then we were then also presented,

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Speaker 1: obviously with the photos of what her remains look like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you said the word remains earlier, and that

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Speaker 1: even seems like a generous term for what we saw.

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Speaker 1: It was just, you know, I've been a journalist for

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Speaker 1: twenty years and it was one of the most difficult

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Speaker 1: things I've ever seen. It was just it was horrible

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Speaker 1: to see what was the state of what was left

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Speaker 1: of Tiley. And I think there's a lot to be

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Speaker 1: unpacked there about. You know, who could do this? Who

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Speaker 1: could who could reduce a teenage girl to this sort

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Speaker 1: of state. For those of you that don't know, I

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Speaker 1: will let rich Robertson PI, who has worked tangentially on

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Speaker 1: this case, describe exactly what is a pickaxe. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a digging device that has a pointed end

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Speaker 1: on one side and kind of a shovel like the

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Speaker 1: on the other end. So it's it's used for digging

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Speaker 1: through through ground and dig and breaking rock, breaking rock.

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Speaker 1: And on one end there's the sharp end of a

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Speaker 1: pickaxe where you break up rock and dirt and objects

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Speaker 1: that are hard to break apart. And the other end

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Speaker 1: is kind of like a mini shovel And on an

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Speaker 1: object like a pickaxe, is this little girl's body tissue? Um,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you another reason that Calt mom Laurie Valo

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to look at the pictures that are going

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Speaker 1: to be displayed in court, that are being displayed right now.

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Speaker 1: And so help me Lord in Heaven, I would put

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Speaker 1: those pictures up and I would leave them up the

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Speaker 1: entire time for mom Laurie Valo to take a good

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Speaker 1: look at what she had done to her children. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen now to our cut two zero two. This

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Speaker 1: is Detective ray hermus c opened the Rexburg Police. I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear how he describes finding Tyle's body.

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Speaker 1: As we began digging, we were on our hands and knees. Um.

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Speaker 1: We started to uncover just burnt flesh, um, charred bone.

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Speaker 1: The smell was again of a decomposing body. We had

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Speaker 1: to take turns digging because the smell was so bad.

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Speaker 1: We could only dig for a couple of minutes. Eventually

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Speaker 1: we're uncovered bits and pieces of Tyley, who we assumed

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Speaker 1: was Tyle Um, that had been burned. There were pieces

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Speaker 1: of bone, Like I said, charred, charred flesh, um. Just

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Speaker 1: the best I can describe is just globs of of

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Speaker 1: a flesh that we're falling apart. Globs a flesh that

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Speaker 1: we're falling apart. Now that is what is left of Tyling.

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Speaker 1: Globs of flesh that we're falling apart. To Leah's attillity,

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Speaker 1: was that flesh that was once the body of this

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Speaker 1: little girl shown to the jury. It was yeah, what

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Speaker 1: what you could make of it? I mean it was

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Speaker 1: a sort of a thing I think that would be

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Speaker 1: unrecognizable to you know, all of you, most all of humanity.

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Speaker 1: You know, you don't quite know what you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: and then it's described to you, and that sort of

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Speaker 1: settled in that these you know, massive as he described,

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Speaker 1: these these pieces bone shards sticking out of the dirt

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Speaker 1: and teeth are Tyley. When the jury saw the remains

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Speaker 1: of Tyley, which I've been told was basically a bucket

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Speaker 1: of burned flesh, how did the jury react? They were Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was hard to tell. I mean nobody in that

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Speaker 1: courtroom wanted to look at that that you know obviously,

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Speaker 1: and and and they were, um, I give them credit

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Speaker 1: for that. I did notice one ju got very red

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Speaker 1: in the face, and uh sort of at a certain

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Speaker 1: point started just sort of looking out into the courtroom

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Speaker 1: instead of at the screen. You know, became very those

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Speaker 1: are those things being up there on the screen. Became

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Speaker 1: very difficult for everyone to to you know, keep your

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Speaker 1: eyes on. What were the others doing? They were looking,

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Speaker 1: they were taking notes. Uh, they were you know, I

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Speaker 1: got to say, this jury is is pretty um, pretty stoic,

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Speaker 1: you know, but it seemed clear to me that they

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Speaker 1: were the reality of this case was setting in. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that there's been plenty of evidence

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Speaker 1: up to that point that was clear what we were

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Speaker 1: hearing about. But seeing these photos, the photos of highly

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Speaker 1: the photos of JJ, I think that you started to

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Speaker 1: hear a lot of sniffles in the courtroom at that point.

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Speaker 1: And um, and and I don't know that that was

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Speaker 1: some of the jury, but it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me.

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Speaker 1: As it was we learned more about the remains of

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Speaker 1: this beautiful tank girl cult mom Laurie Valo's girl Tiley.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two zero four again,

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Speaker 1: detective right Hermaco and you are hearing it just as

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Speaker 1: the jury is. Once we removed some of that underneath,

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Speaker 1: there was another they're um round glob of and and

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Speaker 1: sorry for the That's the best way I can describe it. Um,

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Speaker 1: just burnt flesh, bone, all kind of what appeared to

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Speaker 1: be in a in a in a put in a

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Speaker 1: green bucket. Um, the bucket had melted, so it was

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Speaker 1: kind of desformed, and and the flesh and bone and

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Speaker 1: um was all kind of stuffed in that melted bucket.

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Speaker 1: David Leroy, high profile lawyer joining us from that jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: I'd have I don't even know if I could stand

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Speaker 1: to look over at Lori Valoe and think. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to see a horrific image like this

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Speaker 1: in court, but then to let your mind go to

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Speaker 1: the place where this was done to this little girl too, tiy.

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Speaker 1: And there sits the mom cult Motlaurie Valley, who didn't

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Speaker 1: put up one poster, who didn't call and report her missing,

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Speaker 1: who lied about her whereabouts, tried to avoid police, was

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Speaker 1: out in Hawaii having a beach wedding during the search

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Speaker 1: for her children, and it is husband number five. I

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Speaker 1: got that wrong. I lost count. The prophet Chad day

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Speaker 1: Bell is husband number five. And these children are found,

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Speaker 1: their remains on his property and their DNA on his

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Speaker 1: pickaxe and his shovel. I mean, as soon as the

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Speaker 1: jurors let their mind go there, she's going to be

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Speaker 1: up the creek without a paddle. David. Well, remember the

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Speaker 1: defense that did have the opportunity and exercised it to

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Speaker 1: do an opening statement on day one of the trial. Evidence,

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Speaker 1: and their theme was that Laurie was a kind and

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Speaker 1: loving mother to her children. The prosecution contrasted that with

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Speaker 1: money power and sex. It made her a killer, and

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Speaker 1: certainly the opening stage of this trial digs a very

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Speaker 1: deep hole for the defense at once to present her

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Speaker 1: as a loving mother. It's a tragic situation that is

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Speaker 1: probably going to give these jurors pause for the rest

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Speaker 1: of their life. The evidence that they're seeing, Well, you're right.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut one six zero, that

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Speaker 1: very open statement. Money power and sex. That's what this

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Speaker 1: case is about. The defendant, Laurie Valo day Bell, use money,

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Speaker 1: power and sex or the promise of those things to

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Speaker 1: get what she wanted. What she wanted was money, power

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Speaker 1: and sex. It didn't matter what obstacle she had to

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Speaker 1: remove to get what she wanted. It didn't matter if

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Speaker 1: the obstacle was a thing or a person, and if

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Speaker 1: it was a person, it didn't matter who. So how

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Speaker 1: do jj entirely their murderers fit into her desire for

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Speaker 1: money power and sex? I mean, this is husband number five.

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Speaker 1: How much more sex do you want? But okay, that's

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Speaker 1: just a neither here nor there. But let's focus on money.

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Speaker 1: Take las Nur cut one six two. This explains it.

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Speaker 1: JJ had also lost his father, and when JJ lost

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Speaker 1: his father, he became even that much more difficult to

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Speaker 1: care for, no longer a second parent to help. Not

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Speaker 1: only that, JJ also was entitled to Social Security benefits.

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Speaker 1: The defendant didn't want to have to take care of

426
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: JJ anymore. She wanted the money. JJ's gone. Yeah, Valo,

427
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: he's dead. JJ's father is dead because he was shot

428
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: right there with Coltman, Laurie Valley watching, and her brother

429
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: with the pistol, Alex Cox. So that's what this is about. Money. Power,

430
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: What power? Oh? I forgot riot Leo's attilly. She was

431
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: going to be in power at the end of time

432
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: and she was going to lead the one hundred and

433
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: forty four thousand to heaven. Is that the power she's

434
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: talking about or some other power? I think so? I

435
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: think that that's exactly it is. That Chad Davil and

436
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: Maurie Valo believed that they were the two leaders of

437
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: the one hundred and forty four thousand prophesied in the

438
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: Book of Revelation, and that it was up to them

439
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: to determine who was a light spirit who was a

440
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: dark spirit. And you know, those light spirits would then

441
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, ascend alongside them according to their belief. But

442
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: those dark spirits had to be eliminated, and I guess

443
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 1: JJ entailing were dark spirits? Is that right? So they

444
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: had to be Kur's right. Oh okay, well that explains

445
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: that all. I'm sure the jury will buy that defense. So,

446
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: in contrast to the picture portrayed by the defense that

447
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: she's a loving, caring mom and that she had an

448
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: alibi for the time that at least JJ was taken,

449
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: that alibis she was three or four doors down in

450
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: the apartment complex and had no idea what her brother

451
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: Alex Cox was doing with JJ. I want you to

452
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: hear this. Doctor Pria Banerjee is with US Forensic Pathologist.

453
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: You can find her at Anchor Forensic Pathology and on

454
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: Twitter Autopsy Underscore m D. Doctor Pria Banerjee, take a

455
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: listen to our cut two zero five more of what

456
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: was done to Sweet Tilely. We were only able to

457
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: work a couple of minutes before we'd have to get

458
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: switched out by their detectives. We were able to get

459
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: down all the way to the bottom of the mass

460
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: and what the goal was was trying to get to

461
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: the bottom to be able to lift it onto a

462
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: tart or a body bag. As we got down to

463
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: the bottom, there was a partial human skull. Under Time

464
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Dodger, Preya again, thank you for

465
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: being with us. What do you make of what you

466
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: are hearing regarding the state of sweet Tyley's body? What

467
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: was done to this child? So it's horrific. I mean,

468
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm sort of speechless, which is rare, but I'm a

469
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: mom first, just like a lot of us, and so

470
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: leaving I can't leave that aside. But looking at it,

471
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, professionally, this is one of the worst states

472
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: of a body described. You know, there's decomposition, there's burning,

473
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: partial skull. Just identifying her as Tyley is going to

474
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: be difficult and then trying to piece it together as

475
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: to what killed her. It's un real. And you know,

476
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: I think even an experienced detective or doctor like myself,

477
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: we try to prepare, you know, when I go to

478
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: prime scenes or when I used to like I used

479
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: to have to be there digging up the bodies, helping

480
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: unearthed them layer by layer, you feel prepared. But even

481
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: this is just horrific, and the smell. It's not like

482
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: anything anybody can really describe and capture, and you can't

483
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: even really smell it from the surface. But once you

484
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: start removing that dirt, it's gonna really hit you. And

485
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: I want to juxtapose this testimony against the calm, cool

486
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: collected phone calls you were hearing between cultmum Laurie Valo

487
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: and husband number five, the so called profit chat a

488
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: day bail. This is what was about to be dug up,

489
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: and they're chatting so calmly against hope that cops wouldn't

490
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: find the bodies. And as a matter of fact, at

491
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: one point, Chad Davil takes off in a vehicle. They

492
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: have to go get him. He knows what they're about

493
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: to find. Now we've heard about Tyley's remains, take a

494
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: listen now to what we learn about little JJ. In

495
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: our cut one nine three, I observed the art team

496
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: removed the top layer of soil in that area. As

497
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: they began removing the top layer of soil, it began

498
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: to expose three large white rocks and at that point

499
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: there was a strong odor. Through my training experience, that

500
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: was a decomposing body. Okay, is that something you've smelled before. Unfortunately, Yes,

501
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: they scraped a weigh some more soil around that round

502
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: object and it began to take the shape of the

503
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: crown of It looked like the crown of a head

504
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: protruding through the dirt. Okay, what action was taken? Next?

505
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: We continued or they continued to dig around that what

506
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: we started to call the burial site, and eventually exposed

507
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: what appeared to be a small body wrapped in black plastic.

508
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: At any time was that plastic cut into a slit

509
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: was made in the white plastic, And eventually we were

510
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: able to see that looked like brown human hair. You know,

511
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, and I'm going to throw this to

512
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: our guests that know this case like the back of

513
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: their hands. That would be Lea's Attilli and Rich robertson

514
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: Arizona based private investigators of our three investigations. Rich, do

515
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: you notice how he's actually been involved in this case

516
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: as it relates to Larry and Kate Woodcock, who are

517
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: JJ's grandparents. Rich, do you notice the difference in the

518
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: way they treat they treated the two children. JJ was

519
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: basically hermetically sealed, His body was intact. He was still

520
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,959
Speaker 1: dressed in his pj's and his socks he was wearing

521
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: the night that he was taken out of Laurie Valo's

522
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: apartment and killed, while Tiley was gruesomely dismembered, burned, and

523
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: her flesh left and send globs and a melted bucket. Joey,

524
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: I think we can only speculate us as to why

525
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 1: they were different based on some of the timeline that's

526
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: been put together. There's it's pretty clear that Tyley was

527
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: killed some time before JJ, So you know, maybe the

528
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: experience and difficulty of doing what they did to Tyley

529
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 1: kind of informed them as too. They didn't really want

530
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: to go through that again, whoever it was that actually

531
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: did the act, So it's hard to know speculate all

532
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: day long about that. I thought, psychologically, doctor Dana Anderson,

533
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: it may indicate cult mom's deep hatred for Tyley, who

534
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: was beginning to say things like no mom in question

535
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: her father's death. I guess that would have been husband

536
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: number two or three, Joseph Ryan, and becoming more and

537
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: more difficult for cult mom Laurie Valley to control her

538
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: hatred for TYLEI wan very deeply exactly. Yeah, everything revolves

539
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: around Laurie's once needs desires, right, nobody can really tell

540
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: her no, okay, And you know, come into contact with

541
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: a teenager or a different opinion, someone that might challenge you,

542
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: someone that might even say I think you're wrong. That's

543
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: just definitely a conflict. And someone who's just so high

544
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: and this narcissistic phrase. They can't take any even perceived

545
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: rejection or they can't handle it. They can't handle their

546
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: emotions that will come out, and they project all the

547
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: negative emotions in themselves out on that person and as

548
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: a way to get rid of those uncomfortable emotions that

549
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 1: you might be feeling in response to this, So get

550
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: rid of that person. It is horrifying exactly. And to

551
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: you LEAs Attilia, who has been in the courtroom day in,

552
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: day out, and this trial is happening right now and

553
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: you are hearing testimony as the jury is hearing it,

554
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: are the photos of the children's bodies or what's left

555
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: of them up in the courtroom and also what is

556
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: Cultma Laurie Valoe doing during this gruesome testimony? Yeah, the bodies, Yes,

557
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: the photos are and to be clear, I think that

558
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: part of what makes them so hard to look at

559
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: is that. As Hermaso gives his testimony, we see step

560
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: by step by step of how they uncovered these bodies

561
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: what was left of them. So you see the dirt

562
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: being removed, then you see poor JJ's little head sticking

563
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: up through the dirt. You know, it's it's a very um.

564
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: It makes it all the more real to understand the

565
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: process of discovering where these missing children were. You know,

566
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: the jury is looking at the photos, and the gallery

567
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: is looking at the photos, the judges looking at the photos,

568
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: and Lori Vello is not looking at the photos. I'm

569
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: just gonna add, Oh, I'm just gonna add that as

570
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: difficult as it is to look at the photos, that's

571
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: exactly how it's done. This is doctor Bannergy. Sorry. You know,

572
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: we have to document every layer to make sure that

573
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: it's a legitimate x you know, on earthing of the body,

574
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: and that we're collecting evidence at every step. Right, photos

575
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: show the evidence. But this is not like just digging

576
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: up a bulb in your garden and trying to get

577
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: it done. This is hours of tedious work and making

578
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: sure because you don't know going into it, Um, what

579
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: weapon was used? Is there a bullet in the dirt.

580
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: You have to sit exactly, and you may be asking

581
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: yourself where was called Mom Laurie Valo while her children

582
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: or what's left of them, are buried out at husband

583
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: number five property in the pet cemetery. Take a listen

584
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: to only our cut one seven two. This is what

585
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: caught Mom Laurie Valo was up to while her children

586
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: were out there literally rotting listening. I cut into the

587
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: browsing history in the Amazon account, and I saw that

588
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: there was browsing for a beach wedding dress, a bathe

589
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: in suit men's large size. I think it was large

590
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: white linen top and pants, and malachite wedding rings. And

591
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: there were completely a little oddnan things I believe, maybe

592
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: flipflops or something. Yeah, while our children are out rotting

593
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: Tyler's flesh in a bucket, she caught Mom Laurie Vallo

594
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: is online searching for her wedding dress to her next husband.

595
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: We have to go because court is resuming. Goodbye from