Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
Speaker 1: can't predict anything, alright, So right off the bat, before
Speaker 1: we even introduce everyone, Jason Phelps, I'm gonna we're gonna build,
Speaker 1: We're we're gonna create an elaborate We're gonna create a scenario. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna respond to the scenario, like like how
Speaker 1: you would suggest people to respond to the scenario? All right? Now?
Speaker 1: Who um, who can do like a pretty convincing gobbl noise? Oh? Mark? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, going me a sample for you? Yeah? Let
Speaker 1: me yea, let me let me Okay, So you guys,
Speaker 1: you know how you know when when you get a
Speaker 1: couple of glars gobbling over each other, and then who
Speaker 1: can be an angry hen? I'll go, I'll go angry.
Speaker 1: Hen You're gonna be a You're gonna be you're the
Speaker 1: boss gobbler, marks them. We haven't even got to do
Speaker 1: get out yet, Okay, marks the boss gobler. And Remy's
Speaker 1: like the guybler always tries to gobble over the boss gobler. Okay,
Speaker 1: and we need a angry hen. I can't do it now?
Speaker 1: Can anyone do an angry hen who's doing that? Oh? No,
Speaker 1: aid of yeah, but I want her like angry. Okay,
Speaker 1: So okay, So here you are. I'm gonna paint the
Speaker 1: scenario for you. All right, Okay, it's Jason Phelps Felts
Speaker 1: game calls. You've been making a lot of calls. I
Speaker 1: have just like our dudes buying turkey calls right now
Speaker 1: or did they already buy them? They are still right
Speaker 1: up to the last day, right up for the last
Speaker 1: week buying. There's still guys like now that it's opening
Speaker 1: day tomorrow. But the typical responses, Hey, if I ordered
Speaker 1: the day, can you get him out tomorrow? And when
Speaker 1: they beat at me by the next day, can you
Speaker 1: have my can you have to my camps up? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: it's okay. So here you are. It's dark, okay, and
Speaker 1: and uh you're a hundred fifty yards away, and here's
Speaker 1: what's happening. Okay, So that's what's going on. Okay. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna do real soft tree ELPs if they're still
Speaker 1: on the tree. So this is so okay. So so
Speaker 1: you're you're calculating they're up in the roost and you're
Speaker 1: gonna this is how you're gonna do it. And no, Paul,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be a lot. You know, drag goes out. Well,
Speaker 1: these galblers are low t because normal goblins would have
Speaker 1: been all over that. Yeah. So if my calling is
Speaker 1: that bad that they won't even respond out of the
Speaker 1: root to my to my TREEO. Um, so that's your TREEO?
Speaker 1: Really quiet? Four to five yelps? And what are you
Speaker 1: think of when you think in the trio, I'm just
Speaker 1: letting him know. Ideally I'm still on the tree as
Speaker 1: a hen. You know, they they they're pretty good at pinpointing.
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to let them know there is a
Speaker 1: you know, a hen over in that tree, and say trio.
Speaker 1: When you say trio, you're saying that, not that you're
Speaker 1: yelping to them in the tree, but you're in your
Speaker 1: tree too. Still on my tree, I haven't flown down yet,
Speaker 1: so I'm trying to paint that picture. You may, they
Speaker 1: usually roost next to some other hands. They knows it
Speaker 1: for sure, thing, But I want to let him know, Hey,
Speaker 1: there's another hen that's over here. Okay, hit me with
Speaker 1: the tree. Help again. And so by their instant response,
Speaker 1: I know they just heard that, and so I may
Speaker 1: not get really aggressive. I might do. That's enough, um,
Speaker 1: just to just to acknowledge that, because I'm getting to
Speaker 1: a part point in my life where I feel like,
Speaker 1: if I was better at mass, I would figure if
Speaker 1: he made no noise at all, What are the knowing
Speaker 1: that it's a three sixty degree circle around the gobblers tree?
Speaker 1: What are the odds that he's just gonna walk past
Speaker 1: you anyway? And it changes the farther out you get.
Speaker 1: I feel, yeah, it would be a good math question
Speaker 1: because I feel like I have like I feel like,
Speaker 1: as much as you think you're gonna call gobblers off
Speaker 1: the roost, it probably works about as many times? Is
Speaker 1: what the odds are that he's gonna walk through year
Speaker 1: five degree band? Yeah, I'm gonna say, I'm I'm pretty
Speaker 1: good at turkey off the roost math, and it's usually
Speaker 1: zero times, like fow tries, so zero percent that thing.
Speaker 1: No matter what, I've never still to this day killed
Speaker 1: the turkey off the roost. Yeah, I've been there when
Speaker 1: it's happened, but many But then I feel like, well, yeah, eventually,
Speaker 1: eventually it makes sense that he'll leave the roost and
Speaker 1: when he has, and he'll pick the spoke of the
Speaker 1: wheel that I happen to be sitting up. And that's
Speaker 1: the times. But now, so who is the angry hen? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well yeah, okay, so now then we hit you with
Speaker 1: this scenario now, and then i'nna hitt you with another scenario.
Speaker 1: So here's the scenario. Um, you're angry handing it. I
Speaker 1: can do that too, I guess. Okay, So so rem
Speaker 1: hit your go well, hit your tree out, and Mark
Speaker 1: hits your angry hand. Okay, now what are you thinking?
Speaker 1: Has your thought changed? So he did he call it before?
Speaker 1: He called it before I did my tree up, so
Speaker 1: he never acknowledged me. I may tree up again and
Speaker 1: see if I can get him to spark off on that. Yet,
Speaker 1: let's try. I just want him to all right, and
Speaker 1: then I'll probably be quiet. I want him to come,
Speaker 1: even though the angry hand is now angry. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you don't want to. They're typically fairly quiet in
Speaker 1: the tree, so you don't want to overdo it. Why
Speaker 1: you're still on the tree and it's too dark to
Speaker 1: pitch down, so you're just trying to He's acknowledged me
Speaker 1: now and then I'm gonna be quiet until they do
Speaker 1: heat up the right before they fly down, so we
Speaker 1: may get back in the game at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because then they hit the ground and then so and
Speaker 1: so often never make a peep because I mean, they
Speaker 1: made eye contact, they know what they're after. They don't
Speaker 1: need to communicate at that point, and so they seem
Speaker 1: to kind of they get pretty active right before they
Speaker 1: pitched down, and then kind of go silent there for
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then they'll pick back up. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit you with a notice scenario, and this
Speaker 1: is the one that gives me a little chub. So
Speaker 1: all this happens and then nothing comes of it, and
Speaker 1: then you kind of wander around the woods all morning
Speaker 1: and around ten am, okay, which is when a lot
Speaker 1: of turkeys get shot, at least the ones I shoot
Speaker 1: at around ten am. All of a sudden, Now what
Speaker 1: are you thinking? So before I make a sound, I
Speaker 1: want to get as close as close as the terrain
Speaker 1: and the vegetation will allow, before I make a peep.
Speaker 1: He's just he's just giving up his location. I want
Speaker 1: to be as silent as I can. I'll get as
Speaker 1: close as it lets me and then I'll sit down
Speaker 1: and I'm going because he's been out love making the
Speaker 1: hands all morning, they all drift off and so before
Speaker 1: that happens. Also, what's going on in my head is
Speaker 1: this thing just let off a beagle in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day by himself. He's probably looking for hens
Speaker 1: at that point you all the hens went into lay
Speaker 1: um and so I'm already thinking this is a you know,
Speaker 1: not a for sure thing, but my odds are very
Speaker 1: very high at that bird. As you mentioned, you're you're
Speaker 1: killing them at tend to to noon um, very very
Speaker 1: high in that tend to two window um when they gobble.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go get set up and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go to my seven to nine note you know, yelp,
Speaker 1: And if I can only bring one call in the woods,
Speaker 1: it would be this, your typical yelp. So this is
Speaker 1: what you're hitting the middle of the day, hot gabbler yep.
Speaker 1: So we'll go sit down, little and so we'll react
Speaker 1: to that gobble thing a little bit, you know, is
Speaker 1: if he gobbles all, maybe try to turn the temperature
Speaker 1: up um with the yelps, and then if he becomes disinterested,
Speaker 1: we'll maybe give it five ten minutes and then go back.
Speaker 1: I'm not really good at be impatient. I say five
Speaker 1: to ten, which is probably like thirty seconds, and then
Speaker 1: I'll call again. Okay, so now here he is and
Speaker 1: he shuts up, but you can hear him who knows
Speaker 1: how to make a spit and it's spitting and drum
Speaker 1: and I could do this. It's uh yeah. So you're
Speaker 1: hearing that and it just drags on. You're like, what
Speaker 1: are you going on? Then? What are you gonna hit
Speaker 1: him with? Then we we'll switch the real subtle um clucks, purrs,
Speaker 1: maybe you know, even scratching the ground next to me.
Speaker 1: A lot of times when I set up, I'll try
Speaker 1: to bring some brush or some leaves next to me.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll scratch around and that just real subtle noise.
Speaker 1: At that time, they can try to get him to
Speaker 1: the pull in that last twenty or thirty yards or
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, because you're trying to sound like
Speaker 1: a hand scratch that that purr and clucks, that real
Speaker 1: content sound, and so you don't want to necessarily want
Speaker 1: to blow him out anymore with that louder yelp or
Speaker 1: you know, excited cackles. You're just really trying to get
Speaker 1: him that last little bit or what we did in
Speaker 1: some instances. A lot of times we'll play this cat
Speaker 1: and mouse where you change setups and you just won't
Speaker 1: come close. Sure, we may give a little call and
Speaker 1: then we just go silent and like all right, well,
Speaker 1: you know there's a tricky here. You get to the
Speaker 1: you know it's in your hands now. So it hit
Speaker 1: us with some of those more subtle tones tones tunes
Speaker 1: that and as I mentioned the mark earlier, that that
Speaker 1: read's not meant to purr. It's more of a that
Speaker 1: yelper read. But you know, if if I had the
Speaker 1: right read and we do some pern just as real
Speaker 1: light subtle clucks um and just real quiet sounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the first time I ever hunted with a really good
Speaker 1: turkey caller that he never did you know we were.
Speaker 1: This is in South Carolina, which is like well known
Speaker 1: for having wildly kg turkeys, and dude, he never ripped out.
Speaker 1: Like everything he would do was just like just he's
Speaker 1: so subtle, little teensy noises, you know, when you're on
Speaker 1: the woods and hear something to do with a box call. Right.
Speaker 1: But then near day I was on YouTube and if
Speaker 1: there's a video of a real live hen who full
Speaker 1: balls out yelps sixty two times in a row. If
Speaker 1: you were in the woods and heard that, you think
Speaker 1: that is some idiot over there to the box call
Speaker 1: going crazy on a box. So yeah, real subtle sounds
Speaker 1: when they're in tight If you can hear spinning drum
Speaker 1: and can't see the bird yet, um quiet, Yeah, not
Speaker 1: last thing on turkeys. A couple of years ago, hunting
Speaker 1: in California, I was doing that, calling back and forth
Speaker 1: to a gobbler gobbling. I'm calling, gobl, I'm calling, and
Speaker 1: it just drags on and evenci I'm thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over to a new spot and try
Speaker 1: to call him to the next ridge. But in traveling
Speaker 1: over there it takes a while, so I don't make
Speaker 1: any noise for fifteen minutes to get to the next ridge.
Speaker 1: By the time I get to the next ridge, I
Speaker 1: call and as some bitches standing right right left from
Speaker 1: exactly because he eventually got curious there's no noise for
Speaker 1: so long, he's like, what happened to We had such
Speaker 1: a thing going, like what happened to her? So then
Speaker 1: I call and I'm like Oh, now he's gobbling right
Speaker 1: from where I was sitting. So the I just shut up.
Speaker 1: In a while later, sure enough, here he's standing there.
Speaker 1: I just got because he enjoys. I think he was
Speaker 1: enjoying whatever bird version of enjoyment is. He was enjoying
Speaker 1: that little deah the game. Yeah, um, so make a
Speaker 1: big plug for make a big plug for Phelps game calls. Man,
Speaker 1: not good at that stuff, but no, um so we've
Speaker 1: I'll do it. Let me take a stab at you.
Speaker 1: Let me take a stab at it. Um. In an
Speaker 1: American elbow grease story where a guy pounding away making
Speaker 1: high quality calls and making a nice good business cranking
Speaker 1: away in his home builds a business up and makes
Speaker 1: like phenomenal calls and insiders. No, the Phelps calls are right?
Speaker 1: How's that? I love it? Now you do something like
Speaker 1: that like this whole a promotion thing is just not
Speaker 1: good with me. Um No, we well you want to
Speaker 1: plug someone else's called? No, you know, I think some
Speaker 1: people you know, listen to your podcast of the story. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just been a lot of passion, and this whole
Speaker 1: company has been driven by pass We wanted to build
Speaker 1: the better mouse trap. Um, come up with the specific
Speaker 1: sounds we were we were looking for, and UM, we're
Speaker 1: pretty excited. You know, we've we've did very well with
Speaker 1: the Turkey calls. Majority our elk calls are our bread
Speaker 1: and butter still UM, but we're really excited as we
Speaker 1: move into the next year. We've got a full Predator, lion,
Speaker 1: waterfell line, UM Deer call line. Everything's finally going to
Speaker 1: be where I kind of envisioned it way back when
Speaker 1: we started. So we're pretty excited to kind of get
Speaker 1: out of that elk call rat UM Turkey call sprinkled in,
Speaker 1: but we'll have a full Turkey call line and UM
Speaker 1: will be kind of a complete UM call company at
Speaker 1: that point. So your phone call is the best, the
Speaker 1: most effective black Bear call I've ever used, and spring
Speaker 1: black Bears coming up. That's coming from Callahan and we'll
Speaker 1: get around intros a minute. UM UH website, UM www,
Speaker 1: dot Phelps, Game Calls, dot com. UM we're you know,
Speaker 1: for everybody's on social media. We're very easy to get
Speaker 1: ahold of UM contact UM, your messages, emails, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff is on the website and on social media.
Speaker 1: Excellent man, Thanks coming out and doing Turkey primer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna rush this episode into into into being so
Speaker 1: that people can capitalize on that. All right, on the
Speaker 1: on those sweet sounds and sweet notes. Um, okay, it's
Speaker 1: a huge room full of people. Uh, as though dealing poker.
Speaker 1: We'll do intros. It's more like a small room full
Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, small room full of lots lots of
Speaker 1: people to brody strapping into a set. Good, Yeah, hit it,
Speaker 1: introduce yourself there you go here, I am b h
Speaker 1: a rendezvous. How to drive ten hours north to uh
Speaker 1: to leave winter behind? It's all nice up here now,
Speaker 1: beautiful and down and you're part of the in your
Speaker 1: neck of the woods. Almost died like five minutes from
Speaker 1: my house driving yesterday was the snow. Yeah. Mark Kenyon
Speaker 1: here from Michigan. Mark Kenyon, Wired to Hunt podcast. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: we still have winter at home too. It's no good.
Speaker 1: Remy Warren, Remy Warren, just hanging from Reno from Reno.
Speaker 1: You're on your honeymoon? Fijis it got colder for me?
Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan pH a Rendezvous podcasting first Light and uh
Speaker 1: Mark Boardman. Mark Boardman worked for Vortax Optics out of
Speaker 1: good old Wisconsin, And yeah, enjoying the lovely weather we're
Speaker 1: experiencing in Boise at the dh A rendevou. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna um, We're gonna cover a handful of things. But
Speaker 1: first off, we got a mega correction, mega correction. Like
Speaker 1: people were kind of irate, like this is one of
Speaker 1: things that one of the biggest corrections, the biggest wrongs
Speaker 1: we ever have had is I screwed up and was
Speaker 1: reading how the how it's a it's a double layered
Speaker 1: screw up. Keep explaining honest, yeah, let me let me,
Speaker 1: let me why why you're doing that. I'll sort of
Speaker 1: set up the screw up. We were already discussing some
Speaker 1: issues about baiting in Alabama, where in Alabama you've always
Speaker 1: been allowed to um do supplemental feeding for deer, but
Speaker 1: you couldn't bait for hunting purposes. So they came in
Speaker 1: and tried to clarify the distinction between supplemental feeding for
Speaker 1: deer and hunting purposes. And once they spelled it out,
Speaker 1: it seemed to have, according to some people, invited a
Speaker 1: level of interpretation where it said, for instance, it can't
Speaker 1: you know, it has to be a hundred yards away
Speaker 1: from you, like you're if you're hunting, any bait has
Speaker 1: to be more than a hundred yards away from you.
Speaker 1: It has to be out of sight from you from
Speaker 1: a landscape feature. And a guy rode in to say, well,
Speaker 1: people are exploiting this now and in putting a bait
Speaker 1: behind a big hay bale yards away and saying well,
Speaker 1: I can't see it, right, And it was causing this confusion,
Speaker 1: and that led to this other thing where the House
Speaker 1: in Alabama, the state House voted to just outright legalized
Speaker 1: baiting for deer and pigs. And we talked about how
Speaker 1: that was a new law in Alabama, but in fact
Speaker 1: not even kind of um, it was never made it
Speaker 1: to vote in the Senate, right, and then it's not
Speaker 1: a law. Break it down, Ny, And this is you
Speaker 1: just broke it down. I don't know what else you
Speaker 1: want me to add. It didn't make it so it's illegal.
Speaker 1: Debate which I was so weird about, like the supplemental feeding,
Speaker 1: like I don't really understand that we should maybe looked
Speaker 1: into that. But so I guess you can still do that.
Speaker 1: You can feed wildlife, right, which can't bait for the
Speaker 1: sake of hunting. And so this judge that rode In
Speaker 1: was saying that they when they wrote this sort of
Speaker 1: thing to help clarify, they actually muddy the waters in
Speaker 1: the process by saying, like, oh well, if it's like
Speaker 1: more than a hundred yards away and you can't see it,
Speaker 1: then it's not really a bait pile. But he said
Speaker 1: that he and every other judge that has had to
Speaker 1: rule on baiting cases, which they do, um that they
Speaker 1: pretty much say, look, man, if if like, if if
Speaker 1: at all you can like see where that deer or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're hunting is in that zone
Speaker 1: of that bait pile, like, we're gonna call it baton.
Speaker 1: We're gonna call it what it is. If it's on
Speaker 1: the other side of a ridge from you, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna call it baton, but a hay biale a hundred
Speaker 1: yards away, which is what someone wrote to us to
Speaker 1: say people do is clearly illegal, like not a natural
Speaker 1: landscape feature. Um so does that? And that brings up
Speaker 1: a quick question from Mark Kenyon. A guy wrote in
Speaker 1: to ask this, and it makes me think of it
Speaker 1: right now. Why is in the in the white tail world,
Speaker 1: you're a big white tail fella. They call me a
Speaker 1: white tail guy. H you call me a white tail guy.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, you called yourself a white tail freak.
Speaker 1: I think one time. So so Mark, like if you
Speaker 1: don't know it, like if you dig, if you dig
Speaker 1: on white tails and just all things white tails. Marks, Uh.
Speaker 1: Wired Hunt podcast is what you ought to be listening
Speaker 1: to because Marco's way beyond and we even get close
Speaker 1: to when it comes to talking about white tails, which
Speaker 1: is what you know. It's America's hunting this animal right.
Speaker 1: But a question that I would like you to take on,
Speaker 1: Mark at Guy wrote in and say, why is in
Speaker 1: some circles, why is bait bad? Food plots are not bad? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's something you've gotta have been asked a thousands. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a big thing. People talk. People that don't like
Speaker 1: bait haters like to pose that question a lot because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of consciensation people that don't like bait haters,
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that hate on people that use and those guys that
Speaker 1: do bait. I like to say, well, you're a hypocrite
Speaker 1: because you plant food plots, so you are changing the
Speaker 1: landscape or doing something that is attracting deer away from
Speaker 1: their natural patterns to a new place. So is it?
Speaker 1: So where do you stand on this? Are you a
Speaker 1: bait hater not a bait hater? But I'm not a
Speaker 1: bait user. So I don't like debate, but my dad does.
Speaker 1: So whatever, more power to you can do whatever you
Speaker 1: prefer to do. I would rather not, but I do
Speaker 1: plant food plots because for me, that is um two things.
Speaker 1: Number One, with a food plot, with a habitat improvement,
Speaker 1: you're putting in a whole There's a whole lot of
Speaker 1: work and thought and effort going into that. So it
Speaker 1: feels like you're, I don't know, going through some threshold
Speaker 1: of like work put into something that I don't feel
Speaker 1: like you achieved. The same was dumping a pile of corn.
Speaker 1: Number two, You're Okay, that's not gonna resonate, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna that's just just me. I'm not trying to prove
Speaker 1: your point here. But um, but you're also improving the
Speaker 1: habitat you're by planning food plot, you're benefiting entire landscape,
Speaker 1: an entire ecosystem. You're doing something above and beyond just
Speaker 1: the sole purpose of shooting something. Once playing food plot
Speaker 1: you're improving the situation for three d sixty five days
Speaker 1: a year, for so many different animals, for so many
Speaker 1: different things. You might take one life off that, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So that might be another argument for the fact that
Speaker 1: they're different. Um, but if you want to say that
Speaker 1: you're changing something to bring deer in, and if that's
Speaker 1: the only thing you're looking at, then yeah, you could
Speaker 1: say that food plots and baiting on the same You're
Speaker 1: not hunting, just a natural, completely natural, unaltered pattern. What
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say is that, um, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit different because the size, well that too
Speaker 1: well from a disease perspective, if that's another thing you
Speaker 1: want to talk about, Yeah, I thought you hit me
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, that's it. That's a good point. So
Speaker 1: an issue with baiting that a lot of people talk
Speaker 1: about is you put something in a very small concentrated
Speaker 1: area that attracts a lot of deer to that same
Speaker 1: very small concentrated area, there's a higher chance of disease
Speaker 1: I only c w D, which is the big thing
Speaker 1: of course everyone's talking about. So because of that, a
Speaker 1: lot of states of band baiting to try to reduce
Speaker 1: the chance of that spread with a food plot. Some
Speaker 1: people will say, well, it's the same thing with the
Speaker 1: food plot. You're pulling deer into an area, But it's
Speaker 1: just it's different. It's it's a much larger space. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have deer congregate around natural food sources anyways, So
Speaker 1: there's only so much you can do there. So if
Speaker 1: it's even if it's a cord raker food plot, that's
Speaker 1: still resembling a natural feeding environment versus a one yard
Speaker 1: square section where you might have a pile of corn
Speaker 1: where all these noses touching all the saliva. Do any
Speaker 1: states come in? Is there any state that's band or
Speaker 1: try to regulate food plots? No? Why? Why? What? What's
Speaker 1: up around? I feel like Montana addressed that, didn't they
Speaker 1: If you if you plant specifically to harvest animals on
Speaker 1: it's based on intent, But I don't think you can
Speaker 1: do that. Really could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: you can'ts of waterfall, Yeah, definitely, Like you couldn't grow corn,
Speaker 1: cut corn, and shoot ducks unless you have it agricultural
Speaker 1: reason to do so. Yeah, we were talking about and
Speaker 1: then we're talking about this not long ago that like
Speaker 1: you couldn't grow corn pick it, scatter it on the ground, right,
Speaker 1: and hunt ducks. But in places you can grow corn
Speaker 1: and leave it unpicked, but you can't knock it. And
Speaker 1: it's like you can't knock it down. But it's possible
Speaker 1: that you could grow it and never harvest it as
Speaker 1: long as you don't knock it down and weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's if if it if you planted it solely to
Speaker 1: attract animals, then I don't think it would be legal
Speaker 1: in Montana based on but I could be wrong. So
Speaker 1: that's I said, it's based on the agricultural reason. And
Speaker 1: so like an agricultural reason could be I'm leaving that
Speaker 1: stand of corn because corn prices have fallen, or the
Speaker 1: moisture level, the moisture content within the ear of corn
Speaker 1: never got down to a harvestable percentage um, So there's
Speaker 1: reasons for again, Yeah, well screw up, just leave its
Speaker 1: standing first, spending a bunch of gas to go out
Speaker 1: there and cut the stuff down when I will when
Speaker 1: I will have no return on my investment. Now, mark, um,
Speaker 1: can you define food plot real quick? I guess a
Speaker 1: general definition would be some type of crop planted with
Speaker 1: the specific purpose of either attracting an animal to it
Speaker 1: and or supplementing nutrition. So that could be something like
Speaker 1: clover or kale or rape or soybeans or corn or
Speaker 1: when are we anything like that? Are you? Um? Are
Speaker 1: you sensitive when people bring up the comparison of food
Speaker 1: plots debate? No, I don't care. I mean, I under
Speaker 1: I understand the argument. Um, it doesn't hold water from me,
Speaker 1: but I but even if it did, that's all right.
Speaker 1: You can you can choose to see it that way.
Speaker 1: I'll I'll do my thing, you do yours. I got
Speaker 1: an our white tail, do you thing for it? I
Speaker 1: got another answer? Brody sketches, sketch this deal out. Uh So,
Speaker 1: last fall in Pennsylvania, a an archery hunter was he
Speaker 1: was hunting public land, had a bunch of trail camera
Speaker 1: setup was pretty familiar with do you already do you
Speaker 1: already know what we're talking about? Really? Um um um?
Speaker 1: It sounds like this guy's a pretty dedicated archery hunter,
Speaker 1: for for just from knowing you know what we've read
Speaker 1: about it. But he's hunting public land trail cameras. He
Speaker 1: puts an arrow in a pretty gigantic bug, especially considering
Speaker 1: it was shot in Pennsylvania, which is like a heavily
Speaker 1: hunted stage. Yeah, you could call it a big, huge
Speaker 1: giant on public land in Pennsylvania. It's impressive and and
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania's seeing more big bucks because they went to antler
Speaker 1: restriction a while back. But either way, he sticks an
Speaker 1: arrow in this deer and does not find it. Um
Speaker 1: it sounds like it may have been a questionable, questionable shot.
Speaker 1: No one really knows. Either way. He doesn't find the deer,
Speaker 1: and forty one days goes by and he finds eventually,
Speaker 1: you know, he kept looking for the buck, finds the
Speaker 1: buck forty one days later, archery season has ended. He
Speaker 1: may have found it during rifle season. I think he did.
Speaker 1: But he puts his tag on a desiccated carcass that
Speaker 1: have been picked over by predator. Is the only thing
Speaker 1: that's left as the spy and the skull and the
Speaker 1: antlers tags, the tags the antlers, and eventually the word
Speaker 1: gets out. The guy gets the buck measured. Pennsylvania Game
Speaker 1: and Fish Commission confirms it as the new state record
Speaker 1: archery kill. What do you think about that? Mark Kenyan?
Speaker 1: That's cool, really, But there's new state records and states
Speaker 1: like every year. Now it seems like I can't keep tracking.
Speaker 1: That's not the question. Are you not getting the question?
Speaker 1: What's the question? Archery kill? Is it a hunter killed
Speaker 1: record versus a found forty one days later? There is
Speaker 1: a place in the record. And I don't know. I'd
Speaker 1: like to have this guy on the show. You would
Speaker 1: love to get this guy on the show to talk
Speaker 1: about this, because he's like a meteorite could have fallen
Speaker 1: from the sky and that animal forty one days. But
Speaker 1: then when do you set the where's the lie? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Eight hours? Eight hours? No?
Speaker 1: I mean if it was up kill, like what killed it? Infection? Coyotes? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm an interesting I have a similar situation
Speaker 1: that happened to me one of the best year I
Speaker 1: ever shot. It was a poor shot, unfortunately, and then
Speaker 1: I found it was shot poor shot um. But I
Speaker 1: thought he's gonna die. So I searched in search and
Speaker 1: search and search and search, never found him until I
Speaker 1: came back in February to shed hunt and there he
Speaker 1: is right in his bedroom where he usually was. So
Speaker 1: do you act like you found did you find it
Speaker 1: or get it? So the way I would describe it
Speaker 1: is that I killed him but I always say I
Speaker 1: found him in February. So let's say that buck was
Speaker 1: a big giant record buck. Yeah, would you turn it
Speaker 1: in as a record buck or would you look at
Speaker 1: it on your wall and be like, damn, I made
Speaker 1: a bad shot on that buck. So that I I
Speaker 1: found that I found. I found his skull and his spine,
Speaker 1: everything there. Got a salvage teg from the DNR, brought
Speaker 1: it home, and then a friend of mine had an
Speaker 1: extra cape. He said, hey, man, that this is a
Speaker 1: buck that kind of like my Holy Field deal. I
Speaker 1: had hunted this buck for two or three years, knew
Speaker 1: him really well, had been chasing this thing forever um
Speaker 1: and this whole thing happened. My friends like, man, you
Speaker 1: have so ch like wrapped motion wrapped up in that deer.
Speaker 1: You should mount him. I want to give you my cape.
Speaker 1: So I thought about it. I was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: But in the end I decided to do it, and
Speaker 1: I put it on my wall so that every time
Speaker 1: I walked past that thing, I always think about, never
Speaker 1: make that mistake again, like never, don't screw up, practice more,
Speaker 1: compose yourself. Like every little thing I can second guest
Speaker 1: or thought through that I might have been wrong, did
Speaker 1: wrong on that evening. Now I rethink that's so it's
Speaker 1: your it's your totem of self. Flag how's that word? Flag? Flagulation,
Speaker 1: self flagellation, flagulation, So open yourself. It's a powerful it's
Speaker 1: a powerful representation of like what was a really painful
Speaker 1: like moment. It was like a high when I got
Speaker 1: that shot this day I've been after and then the
Speaker 1: mistake and then uh so, let's say a dude walks
Speaker 1: in and he's like, hey, you know what turns out
Speaker 1: that'd be the that's the new state record. Would you say, well,
Speaker 1: uh no, I'd say I don't know. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know where that line is. I definitely wouldn't try
Speaker 1: to promote as a state wreck. I wouldn't have like
Speaker 1: turned it in to try to get as a state record. Now,
Speaker 1: this happened to my old man too, and it was
Speaker 1: not I remember it was enough days where he hit
Speaker 1: a deer out of his tree. It was a nice box,
Speaker 1: especially for like that that era in Michigan. He shot
Speaker 1: a deer right below him and no exit wound. Weeks later,
Speaker 1: my brother Danny's walking out the rifle hunting finds the
Speaker 1: deer um and it hadn't gone far. It's like it's
Speaker 1: still it was in the went into a corn field,
Speaker 1: and we must have walked over a hundred times, walked
Speaker 1: around it, even to the point where it was so
Speaker 1: baffling how we could have missed it that we entertained
Speaker 1: this idea that he had left and then days later
Speaker 1: came back. But then when you look at the placement
Speaker 1: of the era, that's just that's doesn't make sense. We
Speaker 1: just missed him, right, And I don't know he found
Speaker 1: it weeks later, but he entered it. He entered it
Speaker 1: in if you went and looked his like commemorative box
Speaker 1: of Michigan or whatever his name is there with that
Speaker 1: tuck and all he did he took the head off.
Speaker 1: It had to go find a cape. I remember the Winner.
Speaker 1: We're out hunting rabbits. We dropped in to take a
Speaker 1: look at that buck and there's a whole board in
Speaker 1: the side of it from creators getting in there. And
Speaker 1: I looked in there and found a possum. Denned up
Speaker 1: in there, pulled him out by his tail and took
Speaker 1: up I still have a picture of me holding that
Speaker 1: possum up by his tail, so he entered that buck
Speaker 1: in and not looking at it like when you're a
Speaker 1: little kid, you don't know you know now looking I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Man. You're like, you didn't really get him.
Speaker 1: You found It's like a thing you found, you didn't
Speaker 1: get him. It's a really interesting question because you, I
Speaker 1: guess it depends on the shot, Like if you know
Speaker 1: that that shot killed that deer, But is is getting
Speaker 1: him meaning that the killing of that deer in the
Speaker 1: the the recovering of it in a certain timespan, or
Speaker 1: is that killing it? And I mean, and then to
Speaker 1: your question, you don't know when that deer died, if
Speaker 1: it died the next day, or if it died then
Speaker 1: and you just missed it, or if it died a
Speaker 1: week later, but it was because of the wound. I
Speaker 1: hate I hate this whole conversation because the idea of
Speaker 1: wounding and deer in this being a long drawn off
Speaker 1: processes is a horrible thing that's talk about. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the thing that happen, so I don't like exactly it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. It does happen, So what would do I
Speaker 1: want to go? Okay, so picture this scenario that that
Speaker 1: you're the commander of the world, and as commander of
Speaker 1: the world, it comes to you that you need to say, uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna put a time limit on it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say seven days. Pat here, here's my thought. Can
Speaker 1: you hear me? All right? Um? So I have a
Speaker 1: couple of questions just to clarly, he's really going to
Speaker 1: decide on how he's so if this rood is the
Speaker 1: resident expert, right, so this particular dear, maybe I missed this,
Speaker 1: But did that guy that shot that deer, like say,
Speaker 1: he shot that deer and killed that deer, right, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't. I don't know how long the season is.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's too shorter a season for this happened. But
Speaker 1: this could happen in Montana where if you if you
Speaker 1: don't recover your dear. It's not illegal to shoot another
Speaker 1: deer and any states, but it's it's I would consider
Speaker 1: it unethical. But if that guy shot another deer in
Speaker 1: that deer's place, so he gets up in the tree stand,
Speaker 1: he shoots that buck, he doesn't find it. In two days,
Speaker 1: he goes and find it, right, another buck walks by,
Speaker 1: arrows that buck punches his tag and puts it on
Speaker 1: that deer or now I would say that guy can
Speaker 1: claim it if he like the right thing, goes, I
Speaker 1: killed that deer, he cuts his tag. He goes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look until I find that deer. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean. If he was like diligent and goes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look until I find that deer, it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: he made a bad shot. He reconciled that he cut
Speaker 1: he that's his deer. He punched his tag on it.
Speaker 1: Now he looks for it, and it took him six
Speaker 1: weeks to do it. That really sucks. But he put
Speaker 1: in the effort. Good on him, he knew he killed it.
Speaker 1: That's his. But if he's like the next morning, oh,
Speaker 1: a little spiker walks by and he shoots it, punches
Speaker 1: his tag on that, and then finds that deer later
Speaker 1: exact the that's not the lad the former version happened.
Speaker 1: It was the form revers. I don't know if he
Speaker 1: hunted anymore. I don't know if he kept I mean,
Speaker 1: he was out during rifle season when he tagged it.
Speaker 1: I believe, looking well, who knows. I'd love to have
Speaker 1: this guy off. I mean, there's so many details he
Speaker 1: can't clear up. But he you know, in order to
Speaker 1: register this buck for a record, he had to put
Speaker 1: a tag on it, and he tagged the skull basically.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he went above and beyond legal and ethical
Speaker 1: obligations to find the thing. But if I was commander
Speaker 1: of the world, it would be like, you gotta find
Speaker 1: that thing in order to register. You gotta find it
Speaker 1: in time to use the meat. That would be my
Speaker 1: cut off. But I tend to agree. But again, let's
Speaker 1: say you get a hit and you're like, man, not
Speaker 1: a great hit. I'm gonna let it go overnight. It's
Speaker 1: gonna get cool tonight. I'm gonna let it go over
Speaker 1: tonight because I think that it's gonna give me a
Speaker 1: better chance to find it than if I bump it.
Speaker 1: And then you go out and Kyle's got so. So there,
Speaker 1: here's a guy, he's got like a whole plan, he's
Speaker 1: doing everything right. He goes out beyond his control. Kyleot's
Speaker 1: got it. I would still say. I would say to
Speaker 1: that too, I'm like, you got it, Yeah, you got
Speaker 1: the buckets your It's unfortunate that that happened. You were
Speaker 1: probably aware that that was a risk. It probably rolled
Speaker 1: through your mind based on everything you had going for you, um,
Speaker 1: everything that you were dealing with, uh, your buck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I take back my previous declaration as commander of the world.
Speaker 1: I like Brodie's better everybody. I want everyone to just
Speaker 1: to just put a time stamp on it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say as commander that I'm talking about God putting a
Speaker 1: gun to your head and you saying, and he says,
Speaker 1: you have to tell me a time period forty eight hours.
Speaker 1: With great reluctance, I would say forty eight hours because
Speaker 1: I do think that you know with that that meat
Speaker 1: aspect fits into that in most cases, barring very warm weather,
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, various snaf foods. But so maybe
Speaker 1: I'm just unfamiliar with Pennsylvania rules. Is it because it
Speaker 1: was a bow? Because hoping, I mean, Boot and Crockett.
Speaker 1: Half the things in there. Most of the world records
Speaker 1: are pick up skulls. That's explain what that explain? Record record.
Speaker 1: Bighorn sheep was found on that island out in Flathead.
Speaker 1: Everybody knew. I mean that sheep was pretty much high
Speaker 1: fence sheep. He's on this little island out in the
Speaker 1: lake and there's a million pictures of it, and then
Speaker 1: that sheep dies and then the state of Montana has
Speaker 1: the new world record. Yeah yeah those sheep. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: now and then now and then a bear of black
Speaker 1: barrel slim out there. There's a bunch of fruit trees
Speaker 1: out there, and now and then a black burill swim
Speaker 1: out there when the fruit trees are in blossom. So
Speaker 1: imagine they do deal with some level of like stress.
Speaker 1: But you go out there, yeah, you just can go
Speaker 1: out there and sort of almost walk up and you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: so hang out with them. So I guess I was
Speaker 1: like when I saw that that's the new world record,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well, is the Bronx Zoo gonna beat
Speaker 1: that record next? Could? That's but that's that's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Is that hunter killed or is it found? And in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: like a lot of states and and Buona Crockett, they
Speaker 1: have different categories, right, like hunter killed animals and picked
Speaker 1: up animals, even sheds, right. So I think the question
Speaker 1: everyone's got about this buck is was it hunter killed
Speaker 1: or was it found? So my question, my answer to
Speaker 1: that would be simple, when he walked out there, did
Speaker 1: he find it? Yes, he found it? There you go,
Speaker 1: he would the guy. He would say that he found
Speaker 1: it during rifles. He didn't recover it. He didn't recover
Speaker 1: it during rifles. He's he found. You can't. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't recover something months later you find I mean exactly
Speaker 1: if you were to go missing in the adrad It's uh,
Speaker 1: I was recovering chopped up cars. Okay, I'm sorry, can
Speaker 1: you can you can? You hand Phelps your deal? So
Speaker 1: just the argument of finding it, like we use blood,
Speaker 1: we use tracks, we use broken twigs. So he didn't
Speaker 1: recover it, he found it. Like Remy said, there's there's
Speaker 1: some key ingredients to finding a buck versus recovering a buck.
Speaker 1: And I would say he definitely found it. But Jason
Speaker 1: Phelps and the whole thing, you had to put an hour,
Speaker 1: like you you were forced to put a time limit
Speaker 1: on it or else you can get you know, killed
Speaker 1: forty eight hours, but you have to look for it
Speaker 1: an all daylight hours up until that point, Like there
Speaker 1: needs to be some effort involved, like when we if
Speaker 1: you want to make a bad shot, there needs be
Speaker 1: some effort involved. So for two days, but you better
Speaker 1: spend those two days looking for it. Martin Bourbon Oh man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna back up here, because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: twists and turns to this thing. So as they say,
Speaker 1: it starts to make its own gravy, that's exactly so
Speaker 1: when he was so when he I'm gonna say, when
Speaker 1: he found this buck, was he actively searching for it
Speaker 1: or did he stumble upon it? That's why That's why
Speaker 1: Jason's point. Was he reading that sign, was he you know,
Speaker 1: going over there in his head like you know, like okay,
Speaker 1: I think he might have bet it he was. He
Speaker 1: had shot the thing, he knew it was potentially dead
Speaker 1: in the area, and I think it was a continual
Speaker 1: process of hoping he would eventually stumble across those antlers.
Speaker 1: So he wasn't in his hunter orange during the rifle season.
Speaker 1: I don't know all the details that you know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he was continuing to look for it, um,
Speaker 1: But it's not It's not as if forty one late
Speaker 1: days later he was thinking he was hunting that buck.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, And to your point, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, odds are right that that buck died as
Speaker 1: a direct relationship to being hit with that arrow, but
Speaker 1: also could have been who knows well there's so many
Speaker 1: there's so many unknowns. Like you said, there's so many unknowns,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of time. Did somebody else put an
Speaker 1: arrow in that deer as it watered by his stand
Speaker 1: and he didn't find it too? You know? I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe caught a little e h D in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's it's it's And I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to take anything away from this guy. Man. I
Speaker 1: would like, like I said, I would love that. I
Speaker 1: would love to chat with him because I'm just curious
Speaker 1: his perspective on it. I'm not like, I'm not like
Speaker 1: dogging on the guy. What's the WEP just is a
Speaker 1: really interesting situation. It's yeah, I mean, it's totally interesting topic.
Speaker 1: Here's another one, motor perplexing one, and again Mark just
Speaker 1: has this. Sorry, I'm sorry, but it comes down to
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. It's okay because white tails are the most
Speaker 1: hunted species in North America, for the attention should be
Speaker 1: on us this. I gotta tell your story. Someone someone
Speaker 1: walked up to me yesterday and they said, so get this.
Speaker 1: I was at a bar. This is someone telling you that. Yes,
Speaker 1: someone's telling me a story. So I'm speaking as the storyteller.
Speaker 1: The storyteller walks up to me and says, I was
Speaker 1: at this bar for a b h a pint night,
Speaker 1: and uh, he saw me wearing this public landowner shirt.
Speaker 1: The guy walks up to me, and he's confused, who
Speaker 1: are you being right now? I'm the storyteller. You're you?
Speaker 1: No, No No, okay, I'll be you. I'm telling a story
Speaker 1: of a guy telling me a story of a story.
Speaker 1: So it's confusing, but you you're me, okay. I am
Speaker 1: the person that I just talked to you yesterday. Hey, Mark,
Speaker 1: go ahead. I was at a point. I was at
Speaker 1: a pint night in the up and this guy walked
Speaker 1: up to me and he was he saw me wearing
Speaker 1: my public landowner shirt and he says to me, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: you're wearing that public landowner shirt. It'd be really cool
Speaker 1: if you could get Mark Kenyan to come up here
Speaker 1: and talk about that kind of stuff, or if you
Speaker 1: can't get him, maybe Steve Rinella Man. All right, they
Speaker 1: got the ranking right. Yeah. It wasn't like when Remy
Speaker 1: got to be the boss gobbler. I was like, that's
Speaker 1: the first time that's ever been said. Okay, so all right,
Speaker 1: this is this is out of your comfort zone. But
Speaker 1: it's just something I heard from Brody that you just said. Yeah, Brodie,
Speaker 1: he lay the groundwork again. Brodie, we're talking about last
Speaker 1: night we talked about this is the most baffling. Okay,
Speaker 1: the other night, Brodie sends me an article and it's
Speaker 1: a guy I don't want to talk about who he is.
Speaker 1: It's a guy griping about all right, it's so complicated.
Speaker 1: You can order because he's griping about um social media people. Okay,
Speaker 1: gear ambassador, gear ambassadors, how they ruin everything and they
Speaker 1: like to take pictures of big, huge, giant trout. And
Speaker 1: he knows the truth that they catch these big trout
Speaker 1: when they're spawning. And Brodie, who's a guy catch released
Speaker 1: trout fisherman, sends it to me annoyed about the perspective
Speaker 1: on it. And Brody brings up to me, like, why
Speaker 1: is it that the whole world everything they fish. Everyone's
Speaker 1: always fishing the spawn. People travel great distances. This fish
Speaker 1: steelhead when they're in the river spawning. You fish salmon
Speaker 1: in the river spawning. People plan trips to fish bluegill
Speaker 1: off the beds. You throw a jig into a bass bed.
Speaker 1: Everyone fishes spawning fish, but all of a sudden, like
Speaker 1: trout piarists have gone and said that this whole huge
Speaker 1: history of people targeting fish when they congregate to spawn
Speaker 1: is unethical if it's a brown trout. And you agree
Speaker 1: with that, Oh no, I didn't. I thought that it
Speaker 1: was an unethical practice, you know the way I was
Speaker 1: saying supposedly, because I don't know. I'm just I just
Speaker 1: I'm learning this. So I just taught myself to fly
Speaker 1: fish over the last few years. I've never really been
Speaker 1: a big trout fisherm until just recently. I was telling
Speaker 1: the crowd about this article I and so I was saying,
Speaker 1: they were saying, this is supposed and I was looking
Speaker 1: at you, like, right, I don't know. Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: the impression that came out to me. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, is that the case? I have? No,
Speaker 1: I have no clue, So reading that like I would,
Speaker 1: I'm just fishing. I don't know, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Call him, please go ahead. Everybody's right and everybody's wrong. Okay,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, And we have certainly built up this hierarchy
Speaker 1: of species that's nothing new. But there comes a point
Speaker 1: where okay, So there's this river around here, it's called
Speaker 1: the Lost tail Water Fishery below you know, below the dam,
Speaker 1: and there comes a point where you cannot hardly walk
Speaker 1: in that river, wade in that river without standing in
Speaker 1: a red in a spawning bed. At the same time,
Speaker 1: the you know, the water is eighteen inches deep and
Speaker 1: you can see every single fish. I do not find
Speaker 1: it ethical to then go fish for those fish because
Speaker 1: you can you can drag him foul hook, he can
Speaker 1: hook him in the back and drag him off that
Speaker 1: bed or flawesome. Yeah, and then they'll turn around and
Speaker 1: go right back to that bed and sit on it.
Speaker 1: So what's the problem. The problem is, it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it does not fishing. Okay, So when when a little kid,
Speaker 1: if there's a down not catching. When the look kid
Speaker 1: goes down to his mom's dock and there's a dozen
Speaker 1: bluegill beds in knee eat water, and not only will
Speaker 1: they feed, but they'll aggressively guard their nest, and he
Speaker 1: lobs a worm into that collection of bluegill beds? Is
Speaker 1: he is he being unethical? Let me come on, so
Speaker 1: I have a question. Yeah, I mean, and this is
Speaker 1: the nature of this discussion, right, it's like, first of all,
Speaker 1: the stuff that you Flatlanders do, I mean, who really cares? Right, right?
Speaker 1: So like the crappie of the bluegill, the bass. For
Speaker 1: some reason, we have us as a rocky Mountain West
Speaker 1: society have decided that that stuff just doesn't matter as
Speaker 1: much as our trout do. Um, and maybe that has
Speaker 1: something to do with like recovering populations. But you can
Speaker 1: talking about non native like rainbows and browns, like, first
Speaker 1: of all, they're not disappearing anytime soon, and they don't
Speaker 1: technically belong in any of these synthetics. The synthetics purely
Speaker 1: synthetic fish. Uh yeah, but so look at the freaking
Speaker 1: pike minnow right. The squaw fish, those I will not
Speaker 1: mess with on the bed, completely native fish. There's a
Speaker 1: bounty on their heads below the Baudeville Damnado. They're endangered.
Speaker 1: You can't like like you know, so it's all I
Speaker 1: did not know that. Yeah, they're in Colorado. People got
Speaker 1: chucking them on the bank wrote this article that gout
Speaker 1: that we kind of all apparently read or got forwarded around.
Speaker 1: Was referring to Brown's. Yes, that was import This is
Speaker 1: where it makes more gravy like Steve says, well, how
Speaker 1: it read to me was as much as much as
Speaker 1: this guy was concerned with the ethics of ripped and
Speaker 1: spawners off of a bed, he was more concerned with
Speaker 1: dudes from out of state coming in and screwing up
Speaker 1: the fishery that he guides on. So it was like, well,
Speaker 1: I could have been out on that spawning bed making money, right.
Speaker 1: You know. The other the thing that I took away
Speaker 1: from it though, was just the fact I thought the
Speaker 1: point he was making was how people are putting ethics
Speaker 1: or their crossing lines to try to get famous, Like
Speaker 1: Instagram frightness. He was talking about how more and more
Speaker 1: people are doing these huge photo shoots with every big
Speaker 1: fish because they want that huge photo and they want
Speaker 1: to be on the cover of whatever they want to
Speaker 1: free pair of sunglasses or something. So you see people
Speaker 1: staying around for two minutes holding the fish out of water,
Speaker 1: or you see people in this case, he said that
Speaker 1: they were going down a closed Stretcher river. They knew
Speaker 1: it was closed, but they still went down and they
Speaker 1: had to pass signs that said I was closed. I
Speaker 1: don't remember why I was closed or anything. That's a
Speaker 1: different story that's called poaching, so that he was making
Speaker 1: that argument. I thought that people were doing things like
Speaker 1: that to get famous. The one particular fishing question was caught.
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy did all kinds of illegal stuff,
Speaker 1: but there's like a greater picture of this, generally fishing
Speaker 1: for spawning trout being like something you should go to health. See.
Speaker 1: I thought that he was using that as the story
Speaker 1: to illustrate the larger Yeah, well it's okay, one of
Speaker 1: the most masterful writer in the world. So I feel
Speaker 1: that he he's got a few axes to grind. He's
Speaker 1: kind of in a grumpy mood. He doesn't like maybe
Speaker 1: he's the I'm sure there's he's gonna hate this. It's
Speaker 1: probably like a fair bit of jealousy involved a little bitterness, Okay,
Speaker 1: And you put all these ingredients together and you get
Speaker 1: kind of a rant. And just as he's taking talking
Speaker 1: about the influence of social media on fishing in an
Speaker 1: example of that would be that that you would be
Speaker 1: so audacious as to catch a spawning trout to up
Speaker 1: your social media presence. Okay, as much as he's taking
Speaker 1: that little iceolate example to prove a larger point, I'm
Speaker 1: doing the same thing. He did when I'm plucking out.
Speaker 1: One portion of this is to say, like to declare
Speaker 1: that you targeting a particular species of imported European fish
Speaker 1: um during its spawn as being unethical. How how does
Speaker 1: that relate to all of the fish that we all
Speaker 1: sort of agree you do fish during the spawn and
Speaker 1: has the gentleman that wrote that article, I'm presumably if
Speaker 1: he's a fishing guide in whelming, he's a pretty seasoned angler.
Speaker 1: Presumably he's been up to Alaska or BC and fish
Speaker 1: to king in the river. There's there to lay his
Speaker 1: eggs her eggs. Yes, the difference is, let's say you
Speaker 1: have this catch and release fishery cat you then the
Speaker 1: fish come up and spawn, they're on their beds, they
Speaker 1: get through the spawning process, but then they're guarding their
Speaker 1: beds um and they're not eating, but they're doing that
Speaker 1: aggressive behavior of knocking other fish off the beds or
Speaker 1: and um. You know, and you're fishing eggs. Sometimes they're
Speaker 1: trying to knock eggs off their bed other other fish's
Speaker 1: eggs off their beds and um. There is a time
Speaker 1: of year where there's eight of us in this room.
Speaker 1: We could walk up that river and all eight of
Speaker 1: us could catch that exact same fish somehow, some way,
Speaker 1: because it's gonna go back to that bed and it's
Speaker 1: gonna sit on that bed and it's gonna do his job.
Speaker 1: And you know, we could stress it out to the
Speaker 1: point very easily where it's gonna die. So why would
Speaker 1: that be allowed in this catching release fishery where the
Speaker 1: point is to try to release them and let them
Speaker 1: get caught again. But if you're out there fishing, presumably
Speaker 1: not for those spawners. It's legal to be out there fishing,
Speaker 1: and you're out fishing, not targeting those particular spawners, and
Speaker 1: you're pointing at the dude who is But you're out
Speaker 1: there fishing and you're catching pre spawned fish and you
Speaker 1: scoop up a female that hasn't spawned yet and she
Speaker 1: spews a bunch of eggs out in the net. Who, Like,
Speaker 1: where do you draw the line? Like, if you don't
Speaker 1: think you should be fishing for spawning fish, then advocate
Speaker 1: for closing it all together, right, Like, nobody should be
Speaker 1: out there in that case. It doesn't matter if you
Speaker 1: catch them ten days before they spawn or when they're
Speaker 1: on their bed. I don't I don't think that's wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think you are. You're correct? Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: why we do not do that? I do not know you.
Speaker 1: I don't know how. We used to target the spring bullheads.
Speaker 1: You know, bullheads like to spawn like spawning cavities, so
Speaker 1: busted up sea walls hollow logs, and then they didn't
Speaker 1: get inside and they turn around so their heads looking
Speaker 1: out to defend the nest. We wouldn't even use a rod.
Speaker 1: You just go around and dingle, wrap some line around
Speaker 1: your hand and dingle a little cleo against his face
Speaker 1: and have him grab it. To the point we sometimes
Speaker 1: dive down snorkeling mass dive down and in dingle it
Speaker 1: in front of me. So that's like right now I'm
Speaker 1: looking at being like, man, that was so unethical, But
Speaker 1: I just don't just not feeling it. Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: feeling the guilt. I think if you're gonna try to
Speaker 1: eat the thing, fine, but if not, like I feel
Speaker 1: like there's should It goes back to like that there's
Speaker 1: a reasonable act, reasonable chance of failure when you eliminate
Speaker 1: all those chances of failure by being like, okay, big fish,
Speaker 1: ten inches of water, I can throw a rock in there.
Speaker 1: It's gonna run away, but it's gonna come right back
Speaker 1: to that the exact same spot. I can catch this fish,
Speaker 1: Like one point, is it still fish? But maybe for
Speaker 1: the guy who only gets to fish a few days
Speaker 1: a year and he's got to get a lot of
Speaker 1: social media, like you gotta make it happen here. I
Speaker 1: gotta jump in here because I grew up like cal
Speaker 1: did fishing pitching pitchfork and spawn and browns, I mean,
Speaker 1: trout fishing. You know, bass fishing wasn't a thing. And
Speaker 1: maybe it's just regional because you just if I was
Speaker 1: in a lake, right and there's a stream coming into
Speaker 1: that lake, you'll see a hundred fishermen away from that.
Speaker 1: No one will be going and fishing those those fish
Speaker 1: off their beds. It's like it's like, why don't you
Speaker 1: just go So if a fish swims up stream, whyn't
Speaker 1: you just go pick it up and then like go
Speaker 1: take a picture with it? Like is that fishing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's too easy. It takes out. You
Speaker 1: might as well just go like buy your fish or
Speaker 1: go like put them in a swimming pool, because those
Speaker 1: trout aren't Like I don't know, but when I first
Speaker 1: started bass fishing, I would never cast at a fish
Speaker 1: that was on its bed. Ever, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you just don't do that. We'd
Speaker 1: go get leeches and lay them on the beds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean now I do that because I understand that
Speaker 1: that's how you fish bass. But I'm like, bass fishermen
Speaker 1: must just like have they just don't care enough for
Speaker 1: whatever it's different. They're so sturdy. Yeah, you like, trout
Speaker 1: are very fragile. It's like my parents or I grew
Speaker 1: up this small kind of man made private lake and
Speaker 1: we stopped and you could just see that trout die fast.
Speaker 1: It's very hard for trout to exist. And especially when
Speaker 1: you're talking in Montana, you're talking cutthroats or native fish.
Speaker 1: If you see that fish on the bed, you need
Speaker 1: those fish to have their a fighting chance. Now, fishing
Speaker 1: other places like pre spawn, most of the fish that
Speaker 1: are on the bed, they're waiting for those eggs that
Speaker 1: are laid a lot of those eggs have been fertilized,
Speaker 1: so though they already have that fertilization, they're already ready
Speaker 1: to hatch. There that further step from the fish that's
Speaker 1: just out in a deep swimming around. They constantly produce eggs.
Speaker 1: So for the fish that gets in the net, spews
Speaker 1: its eggs and you let it back go, she's gonna
Speaker 1: have just so many eggs tomorrow. Yeah, that's my with
Speaker 1: have you have you guys have red shadows on the
Speaker 1: koy cock by the anthropologist Richard Kane Nelson. No, but
Speaker 1: I will say, salmon, they're going to die, so you
Speaker 1: can just scoop them out of the river. I don't
Speaker 1: care that. That's another part of this. It's another part
Speaker 1: of this. I'm gonna throw it. I feel like I've
Speaker 1: been living in a gray area with a million different caveats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love to fish for trout. I'm gonna throw. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna throw another twist in there that we're talking about
Speaker 1: last night. So where we live in Wisconsin, we have
Speaker 1: the ribs that dumping in Lake Michigan, which to my knowledge,
Speaker 1: by and large, the steel head that returned to those
Speaker 1: rivers do not successfully spawn. And yet from an ethic standpoint,
Speaker 1: many people say, I won't fish those I won't fish
Speaker 1: to those fish that are on their reds, even though
Speaker 1: it's an artificially supported fishery. Artificially supported fishery and those
Speaker 1: fish aren't gonna successfully spawn. You've got those kind of
Speaker 1: artificial fisheries all over the Great Lakes where it's like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: we're pound these salmon and steelhead while they spawn, and
Speaker 1: then the state stocks a little six inch molts and
Speaker 1: it starts all over again. You know, So what do
Speaker 1: you think of that? I mean, I just think it's interest.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. I mean I'm not really seeing
Speaker 1: a from a from a resource standpoint, like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess you could harassed that fish enough for two
Speaker 1: Remy's point. You know, if you caught it and stressed
Speaker 1: it out to a point that it maybe it wouldn't
Speaker 1: return to the lake, then you're you know, you're down
Speaker 1: the fish, right. But I mean there's like, you know,
Speaker 1: oftentimes they'll be you know, three or four six fish
Speaker 1: waiting in the bucket right behind those spawners that guys
Speaker 1: are fishing too, and you know, ten minutes later that
Speaker 1: fish could be pushing up on a red you know,
Speaker 1: right near in that same spot. So I just I
Speaker 1: don't know, I just feel like it's a super gray area.
Speaker 1: And then to your point, like so all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're a kid, well of course I'll let a kid
Speaker 1: do that. Well, I mean, just like every little thing
Speaker 1: changes it, you know, I've seen it, like it gets
Speaker 1: so bad in some places. We would go up and
Speaker 1: fish the North Platte River in April when the rainbows
Speaker 1: are spawning hard, and uh that the local guides there
Speaker 1: would like if they saw you fishing two spawners, they're
Speaker 1: just like scream at you. But then those same guys
Speaker 1: there'd be like a hundred yards stretch of beds, and
Speaker 1: those same guys will float over top of those fish
Speaker 1: in their drift boat to knock them down into the
Speaker 1: next hole, and then they'll get out and fish for
Speaker 1: Why here, here's a kind of here's why I um.
Speaker 1: I want to get back to Richard Knelson real quick
Speaker 1: in a minute, but here's why I brood over the
Speaker 1: subject because, um, the foundations. Okay, the foundation of fishing
Speaker 1: is it was a food acquisition activity, right, everyone accepts that, right.
Speaker 1: So it's like it comes out of a it comes
Speaker 1: out of an interplay of life and death. And to
Speaker 1: watch a segment, to watch a segment of fishing becomes
Speaker 1: so civilized and so sort of mechanical, where you're um
Speaker 1: fetishizing introduced non natives. You're establishing this whole other structure
Speaker 1: of it's like wrong to utilize these resources in a
Speaker 1: certain way. It's it's no longer like the goal of
Speaker 1: like with hunting and fishing, the goals used to be
Speaker 1: that you would study an animal, you would study it
Speaker 1: and find its vulnerabilities and exploit those vulnerabilities to some extent.
Speaker 1: And timing issues, like people like to hunt bucks during
Speaker 1: the rut because they don't act like they do normally.
Speaker 1: They lose some of their inhibitions, they travel more during
Speaker 1: the daytime, they're more vulnerable, and that's like a whole
Speaker 1: culture is built around exploiting this vulnerability. But all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, to all of stodd get to the spot
Speaker 1: where where like the segment of the fishing world becomes
Speaker 1: so divorced from the foundational reality of what it is
Speaker 1: that it that it sets up this whole other bizarre structure.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's wrong. I just look at it
Speaker 1: and I brood over it. It's puzzling to me. Uh.
Speaker 1: In Shadows on the Coya Kard, which is about the
Speaker 1: coy Kon people, um Richard K. Nelson spent some time
Speaker 1: with them, and they like to their den dig forbears.
Speaker 1: So their bear hunting method is you kind of get
Speaker 1: a sense it's handed down generation generation, all the bear
Speaker 1: denning locations, and knowing that a den doesn't usually get
Speaker 1: used twice in a row, you kind of like keep
Speaker 1: a track of what den might have a bear and
Speaker 1: you go around the late spring and that's how you hunt.
Speaker 1: You dig bears out. It's unethical to just shoot a
Speaker 1: bear walking around. Any person can do that. It takes
Speaker 1: a special man to go in and drag a bear
Speaker 1: up out of its den and kill it right an
Speaker 1: So if you went ask most people, if you if
Speaker 1: I went out to my buddies that I hunt with,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, what I do you know,
Speaker 1: I go down, I just kill him right in the den. Right,
Speaker 1: You'd be skewered as the epitome of unethical behavior. So
Speaker 1: it is, it's just like in certain cases it's so
Speaker 1: arbitrary and there's so much baggage at play, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking here, like how hypocritical I am? Right
Speaker 1: because I will not fish to that fish that I
Speaker 1: can see that I know is not going to move,
Speaker 1: because like I'm just like, well, it's a foregone conclusion.
Speaker 1: But when the water is all murky and muddy, and
Speaker 1: I've been telling you for years how much I've been
Speaker 1: enjoying fishing for these smallmouth bass. Well, the reason they're
Speaker 1: so susceptible to flies a flyer rod is because they've
Speaker 1: moved up into their spawning area. But the difference is is,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm fishing in eight feet water that's murky,
Speaker 1: and I can't see them, and so for some reason,
Speaker 1: that's the mental difference for me is the you know,
Speaker 1: my percentage of being successful is in this you know,
Speaker 1: reasonable area for me of you know, it's still a
Speaker 1: game of chance and still feels sporting. Everyone has that though.
Speaker 1: I mean, Steve, if you like could have anything in
Speaker 1: your tackle box, would dynamite be your number one choice?
Speaker 1: And you'd be like, every time I go fishing, I
Speaker 1: just throw a stick of jelly in there and blow
Speaker 1: them out of the water. You wouldn't do that, you know.
Speaker 1: It's because it's guaranteed. It's like fishing for a trout
Speaker 1: on its bed is so guaranteed that it's not even sporting.
Speaker 1: It's like your sportsman because you do it in a
Speaker 1: certain way, whether it's legal or not. You've got. Everybody
Speaker 1: has their own code of ethics, and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what might be acceptable to one person isn't acceptable to another.
Speaker 1: But also what what's the intent behind it? If your
Speaker 1: intent was I just want to picture a big fish
Speaker 1: like dynamite, throw it in there, pull your big fish up,
Speaker 1: take a picture. You're like, ah, whatever, man, I see
Speaker 1: what you're saying. To kill that fish. But oh we
Speaker 1: swam away. He's just in shock. He'll be all right.
Speaker 1: If I thought the question was that easy, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have brought it up. Yeah, it's it's one of the
Speaker 1: I don't even really know how I feel about it.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's a perfect topic for this
Speaker 1: time of here. I mean, I really gotta call on
Speaker 1: I think on Monday from a guy buddy of mine
Speaker 1: in Montana. He's like, yeah, man, when you're coming up
Speaker 1: land a giant, we're gonna go out there. He's like,
Speaker 1: I feel kind of bad fishing them on their heads,
Speaker 1: but everybody else is really Yeah, there's the conversation you
Speaker 1: just had just had. Yeah, I mean it's that time
Speaker 1: of here. When I live in the Great Lakes, we'd
Speaker 1: fish steel heads starting Thanksgiving. Sometimes depending on the water levels,
Speaker 1: because so a lot of times you still had to
Speaker 1: shoot up the rivers when the when the rain the
Speaker 1: fall rains came and still had to push up. But
Speaker 1: the whole time, the whole time, it was all just prelude.
Speaker 1: It was all prelude to the spawn mm hmm. And
Speaker 1: sitting down there at dawn and it starts to get
Speaker 1: light enough, you can start to see the reds, the cleaning,
Speaker 1: you know, the spawning beds. You can start to see
Speaker 1: that golden clean area, and all of a sudden, that
Speaker 1: gray shadow pulls across that. The feeling of like, dude, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: it is odd, right, the feeling you'd get no one's there,
Speaker 1: you got the spot and you see that, just that
Speaker 1: little shadow come out on there and move away. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, to have someone come and tell me that
Speaker 1: I was wrong. I'm not open to it. Uh Okay,
Speaker 1: moving on real quick, Um, everybody's cool on that. Uh
Speaker 1: Mark again, Mark Kenyon, quick thing. I'm glad to have
Speaker 1: you here. Your famous deer, your famous Holy Field deer
Speaker 1: isn't dead. He's not dead. Okay, So if you listen
Speaker 1: to wire to hunt, um, you'll if you go back
Speaker 1: in the back lock. You hear the marks got this
Speaker 1: whole story of Jason's deer around the same deer he sees.
Speaker 1: He's like basically roommates with him, and but the mysterious
Speaker 1: deer and and and he's had opportunities in the past
Speaker 1: to get him and didn't get him. Then he thought
Speaker 1: he was dead. And then what you just found his
Speaker 1: shed and he's not dead. Yeah. Well, yeah, last time
Speaker 1: I was doing a podcast with you guys, I was
Speaker 1: talking about how had my missed opportunity at him and everything,
Speaker 1: And then like a month later, I think I was
Speaker 1: talking to you about Yeah, I heard from a friend
Speaker 1: of a friend that the neighbor shot a big one.
Speaker 1: This was the only like quote unquote big buck that
Speaker 1: I'd seen in the area for like three years, so
Speaker 1: it had to be that dear. So I thought, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's dead. He disappeared off trail camera. I didn't see
Speaker 1: him in times a year. You just see him after that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I kind of moved on and then randomly
Speaker 1: mourned his loss. I don't know have more his loss,
Speaker 1: but I came to terms of the fact that this
Speaker 1: part of my of my life was done. And and yeah,
Speaker 1: like late February, I think it was. I just was like,
Speaker 1: I need to go get some fresh air, take the
Speaker 1: dog for a walk. So I went out to this
Speaker 1: property just thought. I walked just kind of the outside
Speaker 1: little edge is just a nice little spot and snow
Speaker 1: on the ground. Wasn't looking for shed antlers or anything,
Speaker 1: and just stumbled onto some that was a nice little
Speaker 1: stand up pines, and I just saw these this crown
Speaker 1: of time sticking out of the snow. Pull it up
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, he's still around. Never was a
Speaker 1: little bit. It was exciting, it's awesome. It was a
Speaker 1: little bit and uh it was a little bit bitter
Speaker 1: sweet because a tiny bit of me was relieved when
Speaker 1: i'd like come to terms with him being gone, because
Speaker 1: all right, I can move on like I wanted. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go hunt some different places. I'm gona do some
Speaker 1: different stuff, and I find like, oh ship, I'm back
Speaker 1: to this again. So now your whole next year's all
Speaker 1: playing out. You gotta try to find this book. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm telling myself now is that I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do what I did last year. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to like change all my I'm not gonna put
Speaker 1: all my eggs in that basket. I would love to
Speaker 1: finish this four year journey. Now. I love to kill
Speaker 1: this deer um, but I'm not gonna let it like
Speaker 1: consume my life. It's not gonna be the end all
Speaker 1: be all. I'm gonna do a lot of different things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hut smart. Yeah, I'm still gonna try to
Speaker 1: target that deer and see what happens. But like you
Speaker 1: said some number months ago, maybe the way it's supposed
Speaker 1: to end is that I never do. And the story
Speaker 1: and he rides off from the sunset. It was a movie.
Speaker 1: It fills a movie, and you shot at people be
Speaker 1: bummed at the end of the movie. People, I told
Speaker 1: you it should be like the movie The Golden Seal.
Speaker 1: Did I tell you this. We're in the end. Then
Speaker 1: he got mad a chance and he comes out. You
Speaker 1: guys lock eyes, and you can't do it. You just
Speaker 1: drop your gun or drop your bow and start to weep.
Speaker 1: And the buck and it starts foggy and it's snowing
Speaker 1: in the buck like looks at you and you guys,
Speaker 1: and he walks off. That's a movie. But in the end,
Speaker 1: the buck walks up and you kill him. Dude. No,
Speaker 1: it's gonna like that movie. People like conclusions, they like
Speaker 1: things tied up in a nice bow. It needs to
Speaker 1: be like the end of The Deer Hunter. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And then you got mad because I hadn't seen it.
Speaker 1: Have you seen you? You haven't seen the Deer h
Speaker 1: haven't seen the Deer but I saw pop up somewhere
Speaker 1: like I should watch that. You haven't seen the Deer Hunt?
Speaker 1: In my bad on that one? Please anyone right here? Yeah, Lestern, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've seen it. They're hunting it's red stags. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: so much about that movie. It's a it's a war movie, right,
Speaker 1: it's about get the right one. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: some guys from Pennsylvania, colk and in that Steel country,
Speaker 1: the Highlands, Scottish stags across in the in the mid
Speaker 1: It's a real problem in movies when you get to
Speaker 1: know them too much about wild life, movies really start
Speaker 1: to let you down. The worst movie is The Reverend
Speaker 1: Velvet Bulls running across the River and wanted burn. Dude.
Speaker 1: It was like that, uh, The Deer Hunter where it
Speaker 1: winds up it's like we're in Pennsylvania Steel Country. But
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's a Stag's terrible even at night.
Speaker 1: They show up in the morning. Last Mohicans, it's a
Speaker 1: red deer. Yeah, they just get you every time. Man.
Speaker 1: I thought about just offering my services to movies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just be a consultant anything that has to do with hunting.
Speaker 1: It would be a great jobs, you know, just just
Speaker 1: for I'll do it for free, just from my own
Speaker 1: viewing bremy. I'll tell you right now that I have
Speaker 1: done some of that, and they do not care. Don't listen,
Speaker 1: they do not care. Early on in my TV career,
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, I get it, but we're not making reality.
Speaker 1: We're not marking in this Two Hunters. Early on in
Speaker 1: my TV career, I was trying to explain to a
Speaker 1: producer about the whole problem of not knowing what's going
Speaker 1: to happen next, and at one point he grew frustrated
Speaker 1: and he said, well, that's what animal wranglers are for.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna throw up my defense for not seeing
Speaker 1: that movie though, because I do recall now thinking about
Speaker 1: it back in the day when video stores were like
Speaker 1: a big thing, you know, and going to get a
Speaker 1: video with your curtain in the back corner. That's a
Speaker 1: different story, begging like I passed that one and be
Speaker 1: on the shelf, and then like, that's the one I
Speaker 1: want to see The Deer Hunter. I know I'm gonna
Speaker 1: love that movie, just you know, going off the time.
Speaker 1: And then my parents would be like, I don't think
Speaker 1: that's a movie for you, and and and then I
Speaker 1: just I never I never caught back up with it.
Speaker 1: I never I never revealed that that secret. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's stunning. I mean, it's what it's a masterpiece. And
Speaker 1: then check it out. Guys, guys from the you know,
Speaker 1: it's guys from Pennsylvania. Um. They go off to fight
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. It's Christopher Walking, Robert de Niro. One of
Speaker 1: them goes into the Green Bray's. They meet up in
Speaker 1: a then the whole Russian Roulette. It's just like it's horrible.
Speaker 1: It is horrible, but there's some there's a reckoning, like
Speaker 1: what Mark will eventually have with holy Field. There's a
Speaker 1: reckoning in the end where the deer Hunter finds his
Speaker 1: deer and cannot do it. Oh unrelated note, Mark, what's uh,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Guys? Like at vortex. I got
Speaker 1: a whole big, brand new building. Yeah yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's that's the biggest sale. I mean, that's been definitely
Speaker 1: a long, a long process us and yeah, kudos everybody
Speaker 1: that that worked on that project. So yeah, we recently
Speaker 1: got moved in, got settled. So now it's not Middleton, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: not Middleton, YEP. So we're we're we're close, fairly close,
Speaker 1: I mean not too far away. Um in an adjacent
Speaker 1: community called Barneveld, and it's that's a really cool town.
Speaker 1: Smaller town, a little bit, a little bit more rural,
Speaker 1: so not as many sandwich options, not as many sandwichs options.
Speaker 1: But it's good man, I think I think it's actually
Speaker 1: it's but it's forcing me to eat healthier because you know,
Speaker 1: you bring a good lunch every day. So so when
Speaker 1: we're hanging out there though, and we went to where
Speaker 1: you guys were manufacturing the what's the line of sculpes
Speaker 1: you manufacture that you were manufacturing that when we went
Speaker 1: to look so right now it's the razor, the razor
Speaker 1: h d A, MG, what happened all that stuff? That
Speaker 1: stuff moves, Yeah, moved, which is a big process in
Speaker 1: and of itself, just you know, I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: you hire a company to like take that on, and
Speaker 1: I mean that's what they specialize in, is is moving
Speaker 1: equipment like that. And I wasn't super close to that process,
Speaker 1: but I know, I know it was a process. Did
Speaker 1: they give you a humorous office? Corner office? I probably
Speaker 1: have the sweetest cube in the world. You got a cubicle? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you look out your window recently? Tell me you
Speaker 1: saw some birds or is that someone different? Does you?
Speaker 1: I mean the so yeah, I'm on I'm on the
Speaker 1: second floor and actually the whole building. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you guys can buy, I mean you'll see it. I
Speaker 1: mean it really is, uh you know, an engineering masterpiece.
Speaker 1: But uh um, yeah, I mean good windows, good light. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we we look out on on on the I
Speaker 1: guess the front of the building or where you would
Speaker 1: enter the building, um backs up to nature Conservancy. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you got Do you feel it to be unethical if
Speaker 1: you shot one of those turkeys out of your second
Speaker 1: story office building? I do, out of the second story
Speaker 1: office building. Yeah, I'm probably probably not gonna take that shot.
Speaker 1: But I've been thinking about that though lately, because I
Speaker 1: mean we've been seeing them there you know, they're they've
Speaker 1: got some regulars that come by and you get to
Speaker 1: know him. Not to get to know him, but I
Speaker 1: mean you see him regularly, and I'm like, man, you know,
Speaker 1: like I just don't think. And again it goes into
Speaker 1: those like ethics, not ethics, but just like those gray
Speaker 1: areas of if I was just to be turkey hunting
Speaker 1: in general and I came upon a turkey, i'd probably
Speaker 1: shoot that turkey. I don't know, because that that's the
Speaker 1: thing I have to say. This is like grade school.
Speaker 1: There's so many people in here. It's like you can
Speaker 1: be talking over thirteen people know what's going on. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what I don't get though. Your thing with
Speaker 1: the trout on their spawning beds. Why can't you shoot
Speaker 1: a turkey in a tree? Because it's wrong? And I would.
Speaker 1: That's how if it's legal, I would shoot every turkey different.
Speaker 1: Here's your turkey hunt. Forget the calls. You sneak up
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the tree in the dark. As
Speaker 1: soon as shooting our starts. You have a little deeper
Speaker 1: on your watching, Paul, And when that turkey some double
Speaker 1: As a young man. As a young man, I attempted
Speaker 1: something like that it did not work. My questions is,
Speaker 1: are those turkeys spotting? Why can't you shoot a turkey?
Speaker 1: Is different? Turkey's are majestic, noble. No. Here, this is
Speaker 1: where the whole thing falls apart. Here's what the whole
Speaker 1: thing falls apart, because I do believe that there is
Speaker 1: a right and a wrong way to get a turkey. See,
Speaker 1: I just can't go. I just cannot. I will never
Speaker 1: in my life be talked into that. I used to
Speaker 1: be a bushwhacker. I used to bushwhack him, and now,
Speaker 1: um now I'm like, Saul is it, Paul's who is it?
Speaker 1: Who's who's up on their Bible learning? Who got who
Speaker 1: gets blinded? On the way? Who the damask is? Saul
Speaker 1: or Paul? If not one of you guys knows this
Speaker 1: gets blind I don't know. Yeah. So I had my
Speaker 1: Damascus moment um where I stopped bushwhacking turkeys. See everyone
Speaker 1: that goes turkey hunting so hard, I'm like, can the shotgun?
Speaker 1: I'll show you how hard it is. Listen, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: feel a different grade turkeys one decoin ducks, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I like the jump ducks, but it's not as
Speaker 1: cool as decoy them. It's just when there's so much
Speaker 1: more stuff and so much more effort to decoin, but
Speaker 1: you would never shoot a duck on the water. He's like,
Speaker 1: not true. I have been in situations where and there's
Speaker 1: a very good argument you made for it. Where I've
Speaker 1: been with people who said, listen, uh, I put a
Speaker 1: lot of time and effort into selecting my spot and
Speaker 1: camouflaging myself and putting out my decoys and calling. And
Speaker 1: I'm hunting a high pressure area. Right if I can
Speaker 1: do everything so right and trick the birds so much,
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be like, oh, I only kind
Speaker 1: of tricked them where he passed over and I shot him.
Speaker 1: But I went through all the work to fully trick
Speaker 1: him to the point where he handed in my spread.
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, you're too good. You tricked him
Speaker 1: too much. You've now forfeited your right to shoot the duck.
Speaker 1: But so some guys will be like, I'm gonna now
Speaker 1: jump it up, right. So now you're like, if you
Speaker 1: put yourself in the ducks position, okay, where I say
Speaker 1: to you, brody, I'm gonna kill you now. I could
Speaker 1: just shoot you in the head right now. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: shoot you in the leg and then run around and
Speaker 1: chase you and beat you over the hell of a gun?
Speaker 1: What are you gonna pick? I'll take the quick one.
Speaker 1: But that's a shooting him on the water. I think
Speaker 1: it's less effective. You can't break their way exactly. They dive.
Speaker 1: It's it's almost more you jump them up, so you
Speaker 1: know you'll kill him because because then he's yeah yeah, now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen some you know, not that I was. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say I was on the trigger, but
Speaker 1: I have seen I have seen some on the water
Speaker 1: gimmes where everybody's kind of like, how in the world
Speaker 1: did that not work? Right? They almost have to aim
Speaker 1: below him. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get back to mark from it though, Um what layout for?
Speaker 1: Like what's going on with new products and whatnot with
Speaker 1: you guys? So yeah, man, um really talking about getting
Speaker 1: a little job about turkeys? Is there anything I should
Speaker 1: be getting excited about? Man, we got some new buyos
Speaker 1: that are super sweet that'd be good for turkey hunt.
Speaker 1: Like how does it fit? Like, what is what you
Speaker 1: got coming out? How does it fit in? I mean
Speaker 1: their new So we just like like three weeks ago
Speaker 1: we released our new I guess our new generation of
Speaker 1: the Viper HD buyos um. So if anybody's familiar with
Speaker 1: like the original Viper HD series, this is kind of
Speaker 1: a next evolution of those. And I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: for me, how works in the Turkey hunting is you
Speaker 1: should always have a set of binoculars whatever you're hunting.
Speaker 1: I had to get you know what the already my
Speaker 1: body Tommy Yets and it was like, do you bring
Speaker 1: binoculars turkey hunting? I'm like absolutely, yeah, I've been like
Speaker 1: the look at stuffing binoculars everything hunting, I'd be annoyed.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I have forgot my binoculars before, you know,
Speaker 1: getting out of the house early in the morning, and
Speaker 1: you it's like forgetting your cell phone. It's like, you're
Speaker 1: it's the cell phone of hunting equipment, even though I
Speaker 1: guess cell phones are kind of part for hunt equipment. Now,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. You always check in your pocket, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I bring them with Yeah, you have it, yeah, use it,
Speaker 1: keep it, keep all the time. So they're that, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's uh, optically there step up form factors awesome. They're
Speaker 1: a little bit more compact, so what are they like
Speaker 1: when it when it comes to are they more they're
Speaker 1: they're less money than the Razors. Yeah, so they'd be
Speaker 1: kind of like a tier tier below the Razor. But
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're solid, biny, they're good. So I'd
Speaker 1: say that that's the binal that I would suggest even
Speaker 1: before and now, like a person who has a need
Speaker 1: for kind of who uses their optics in a manner
Speaker 1: where they kind of have that need for top tier
Speaker 1: optical performance but maybe don't have the budget to take on,
Speaker 1: you know, a top tier binal like the Razor HD.
Speaker 1: You know you can fall back into that Viper HD
Speaker 1: and you're still getting a very very good optic for
Speaker 1: your dollar. Ya. How do you guys when you're picture
Speaker 1: and all that man um Like what the do do
Speaker 1: do people call up in Uh? Do people call up
Speaker 1: and like express bafflement about what how stuff like why
Speaker 1: bnoculars and stuff are so expensive? Or they just kind
Speaker 1: of like people just accept now that it's like a
Speaker 1: thing that costs money. It was difficult, Like I always
Speaker 1: talk about one of our guy books, I wrote about
Speaker 1: guys that roll up in fifty pickups with Tony Tony
Speaker 1: Doll bronoculars. I'm like, you got it all wrong, bro,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think that still happens, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think, and we've talked about this before, but
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it takes somebody having having that
Speaker 1: optics epiphany, you know, when they when they really see
Speaker 1: what it's about, you know, and maybe they use their buddies,
Speaker 1: you know, really good buyos or something like that, and
Speaker 1: then you know they're like, oh man, I need to
Speaker 1: get a set of that. I can tell you my epiphany.
Speaker 1: Do you know what my epiphany? I think we talked
Speaker 1: about it before, but yeah, well was it. We're hunting
Speaker 1: on the uh years ago the first time everyone out
Speaker 1: there were hunt on the north slope of the Brooks Range,
Speaker 1: and there's a grizzly coming up the other side of
Speaker 1: the river from our camp and I'm looking that a
Speaker 1: thing my binals and that looked at my buddies, binys,
Speaker 1: and he had just he had to spend a season
Speaker 1: pack and moose on Alaska Peninsula. And the guy gave
Speaker 1: us that of souped up binos, and well, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at which just like this amorphous brown blob walking up
Speaker 1: the other riverbank and I looked through his and I
Speaker 1: can see that that there's like the winds blowing and
Speaker 1: it's forming these little cowlcks and the bear's hair. And
Speaker 1: I'm watching this like cowlic kind of move around on
Speaker 1: its rump with the breeze blowing on it, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can tell you what I'm gonna be saving up
Speaker 1: some money for. It's like actual binals. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and and since then now, I'm just like, I'm just
Speaker 1: addicted to looking through them. Well, And I think that
Speaker 1: you when you get used to having something like that
Speaker 1: in the woods, like if you haven't been using binos,
Speaker 1: if you haven't been carrying them, which I think i'd say,
Speaker 1: by and large, like a lot of people do now, right,
Speaker 1: but I think maybe it's less common, know even you know,
Speaker 1: fift twenty years ago whatever, um, throwing a very non
Speaker 1: concrete timeline on that. But um, once you do, I
Speaker 1: think you realize like what you've been missing, and you
Speaker 1: just yeah, you can't get enough. And then you you
Speaker 1: realize how important they are and what you can do
Speaker 1: with them, like you can look at stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: and whether your tree stand hunting and Wisconsin or you know,
Speaker 1: Cuisier hunting in Arizona, man, I mean, that's it's an
Speaker 1: important piece to have, for sure. You hang out with
Speaker 1: bubbly dog dering. I was hunting with Doug one time
Speaker 1: and we walked up in what he calls the big woods,
Speaker 1: up by the wet spot, which are the two great
Speaker 1: names for bars um. And we get by the wet
Speaker 1: spot and I just like, take my binos and scan
Speaker 1: through the big woods and glass up the tippy tippy
Speaker 1: top of a turkey fan. Never in a million years
Speaker 1: would we would have walked in and spooked, glassed up
Speaker 1: that tippy top of a turkey fan, and we sat
Speaker 1: down and killed that bird maybe an hour later. Never
Speaker 1: would have never would have found that turkey. No. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have killed that bird without those binos. No.
Speaker 1: I was kind of like when I saw I was
Speaker 1: like shocked by what I was looking at. I think
Speaker 1: it's like a super important thing. And I mean that's
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just you know a good example of
Speaker 1: one tactic, right. You know, when you're creeping into that field,
Speaker 1: you know, stay back glass it, you know, before you
Speaker 1: expose yourself and blow the whole thing out, you know,
Speaker 1: and you guys obviously saw something, got an opportunity and
Speaker 1: capitalized on itself. I got sorry the north thing like
Speaker 1: speaking of I'm talking about that there should be a
Speaker 1: bar called the wet Spot, which we discussed before. A
Speaker 1: guy rode in to say, like, if there was a
Speaker 1: bar called the bearded hen, would you go into it?
Speaker 1: And he also was wanted and this is a good question.
Speaker 1: Would most states you could kill? Like most states, a
Speaker 1: legal bird is a bearded bird one and one hands
Speaker 1: is bearded roughly. I think it's like it depends on
Speaker 1: areas and whatnot. Um, would you shoot a bearded him?
Speaker 1: Ask me that question, would bearded him? I've got one
Speaker 1: mounted on my wall. Shot a beard, shot a beard
Speaker 1: end and you knew you were shooting a beard at head.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. It was fall. It's just like
Speaker 1: beard boom, exact same minus the mountain. You shot a
Speaker 1: beard at ye? Really yell now that these guys have
Speaker 1: broke the ice and I know it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I rolled a bearded in in the spring
Speaker 1: in the spring, but I called this bird in and
Speaker 1: you know, and it's kind of you know, doing this
Speaker 1: turkey stuff, and a little beard poked out I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh cool. So you're like it's a female, but it's
Speaker 1: got a beard, so it's legal, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: at the time, it was happening pretty quick, but I
Speaker 1: saw that beard let it rip, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I can't say that I necessarily. I mean in the fall,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit different because there, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But yeah, I mean that's that's
Speaker 1: what happened. See, I think it's wrong. Identified I want
Speaker 1: to clarify I have never shot a turkey out of
Speaker 1: a roost, but I also don't think it's wrong, just
Speaker 1: in case I'm backling, But I have no quantu You
Speaker 1: can kill a turkey with attack hammer in your backyard.
Speaker 1: It's a barn animal. Man. No rules the turkeys. I
Speaker 1: generally fall under our states whatever the state defines as
Speaker 1: the regulations. Yeah, you know what Eldo Leopold said about
Speaker 1: that no ethics is doing the right thing is watching,
Speaker 1: even when doing the wrong thing is legal. My god,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's wrong wrong. It's not wrong wrong.
Speaker 1: But if I was hunting, and I I was hunting
Speaker 1: spring out spring turkeys, and I and I and a
Speaker 1: hand came in with a beard on it. I would
Speaker 1: not be able to This is coming from the man
Speaker 1: who would who would pitch for it? Browns out of
Speaker 1: a train. I would not be able to harm that
Speaker 1: female turkey. I don't believe. Last day of long hunt
Speaker 1: and there's a bearded hen, I don't know what. Would
Speaker 1: you go into a bar named the Bearded Hen with
Speaker 1: a level of uncertainty? Would you bring your wife into
Speaker 1: a bar called the Bearded Hen? Absolutely not. That's the
Speaker 1: only way I would go in. Um, all right, Uh,
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of concluding thoughts, lots of concluding
Speaker 1: thoughts to go through. Um, we'll start with Brodie. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I'm just excited Turkey Seasons. I'm not there for the opener,
Speaker 1: but Colorado opened today, so I'm stoked to get back
Speaker 1: and go chase some turkeys and shoot him out of
Speaker 1: trees with a nail gun. What's what is your what
Speaker 1: is your actual like turkey hunt plan? Well, I got
Speaker 1: two tags that drew a tag and I gotten over
Speaker 1: the counter text. So I'll hunt the draw tag first
Speaker 1: and then let all the guys clear out of the
Speaker 1: over the counter areas, and then after get after a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, Yeah, My brother got both his
Speaker 1: turkeys today just watching said, yeah, he just did a
Speaker 1: trip and got two turkeys, so he doesn't like stretching
Speaker 1: the hunt out. No, you know, in some places you
Speaker 1: can't do that on the on the same day. You
Speaker 1: know what I saw the other day in Arkansas, You're
Speaker 1: not allowed to shoot Jake's spring season. That's immoral to
Speaker 1: make hands. He can't shoot a Jake. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're going to Missouri tomorrow and I've been trying to
Speaker 1: weigh out in my head. I'm you know, I'm like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold out for long beard. But at what
Speaker 1: point do I, as my brother says, put the Jake
Speaker 1: breaks on one. Well, that's what's nice about having two tags.
Speaker 1: You can, you know, you can focus on the big
Speaker 1: bull and take a Jacob. They banned shooting Jake's in
Speaker 1: the spring. I just stumble across it, you know, looking
Speaker 1: at that, like on Arkansas website and they posted their
Speaker 1: legs and no Jake's for you listeners, that Jake is
Speaker 1: a it would be a one year old turkey, and
Speaker 1: he doesn't have spurs. He's just got little round nubs
Speaker 1: and his beard is like an inch or too long,
Speaker 1: and I'd have a few more unpunched turkey tags. If
Speaker 1: it was illegal to kill Jake's I would never shoot
Speaker 1: a Jake. That's where I draw the line and the
Speaker 1: roofs with his nail gun. And he's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: only go see, I only go so low. Here a beard,
Speaker 1: a bearded hand, that's one thing that's just weird. But Jake,
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't even have a chance to breed yet. No,
Speaker 1: they don't monsters, his fan his fans not totally tricked out,
Speaker 1: can't do a real rip and gobble. Uh was that
Speaker 1: that's your concluder? Yeah, Mark Kenyon been in the hot seat. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, this is my first b h A rendevo
Speaker 1: had been at. We haven't really talked about like where
Speaker 1: we're at here and what's going on. But I think
Speaker 1: my concluding thought was just what an awesome group of
Speaker 1: people that's here at this event. I mean, the energy
Speaker 1: has been really impressive. The relative youth has been surprising
Speaker 1: and impressing. That's maybe not surprising, but I think compared
Speaker 1: to other events you go to within the hunting and
Speaker 1: fishing world, it's it doesn't look like this. Um So
Speaker 1: that was encouraging to see and um stoked about. It's
Speaker 1: just you get a lot of excitement and group like
Speaker 1: this for the future of what we're doing here in
Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing and conservation world, and the future
Speaker 1: is bright when you look at this group. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of stunning to see pictures of the group and
Speaker 1: the age demographic defies the norm. I remember not too
Speaker 1: long ago i read that um in Michigan the average
Speaker 1: age of a person who buys a trapping license goes
Speaker 1: up exactly one every year, which is old tad still
Speaker 1: at it. It was harrowing. Can we talk about how
Speaker 1: you're off the market? Oh yeah, all those ladies locks.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could wooly mammoth ivory, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not legal wooly mammoth ivory. Yeah? Is there? I
Speaker 1: don't know, is there now? There's like a big thing
Speaker 1: they want to band mammoth ivory because it's becoming like
Speaker 1: replacing elephant ivery. Apparently, you know, a lot of it
Speaker 1: depends on where it was found private land, public land.
Speaker 1: It's found in private land. It's like, yeah, because yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of you know what, Brody were you
Speaker 1: just sent me that article, I think you did you know? Uh,
Speaker 1: if familiar with the Lacey I guess the Lacey Act.
Speaker 1: So for a listener who isn't, you're excused if you
Speaker 1: don't know the Lacy Act. The Lacy Act is one
Speaker 1: of the things that allow just too. You know, back
Speaker 1: in the early the Lacy Act is one of the
Speaker 1: things that allowed us to start putting an end to
Speaker 1: market hunting, which was decimating wildlife populations. Is it makes
Speaker 1: it a federal offense to move like illegally obtained wildlife
Speaker 1: across state lines. So if states states might have um
Speaker 1: lacks rules governing wildlife, but the Lacy Act allows you
Speaker 1: to make federal crimes out of moving things around. And
Speaker 1: someone will just show me an article where this is
Speaker 1: kind of perplexing. They're using the Lazy Act to go
Speaker 1: after people smuggling dinosaur bones. So here you're taking an
Speaker 1: animal from sixty five million years ago who has a
Speaker 1: fossilized bone and using a contemporary wildlife trafficking law to too.
Speaker 1: It's a novel approach, man, how well it will hold
Speaker 1: up in court? It's not recognized as wildlife. When I
Speaker 1: called albert a first fishing game, when I found that
Speaker 1: buffalo skull there only a couple of hundred years old.
Speaker 1: He said, great buffalo is not a recognized game species. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever you want, you find some mineralized like when you
Speaker 1: find a dinosaur fossil, that's right. It's just a weird deal, man,
Speaker 1: it's a weird deal. But what they're looking for there
Speaker 1: is where it was applicable is there's a lot of people,
Speaker 1: like right now, everybody goes to Mongolia for dinosaur fossils.
Speaker 1: It's like the New it would be like you know,
Speaker 1: it'd be like New Mexico in the nineteen thirties, right,
Speaker 1: It's just like it's not picked over yet. People used
Speaker 1: to see it in disregard it the same way you know,
Speaker 1: people used to not pick up Indian arrowheads. And all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you get enough time and separating the
Speaker 1: two events and it starts to become something noteworthy. So
Speaker 1: there's people like looting all these and there's not much
Speaker 1: enforcement in Mongolia. So there's people looting all these dinosaurs
Speaker 1: fossils out of Mongolian bringing them into the US, and
Speaker 1: they're using the Lacey Act to go after people with it,
Speaker 1: which I thought was an interesting approach. Uh, but aremy
Speaker 1: your concluder. You're married. I feel different. Yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 1: I think it should feel different a little bit. You know.
Speaker 1: I like it. I'm excited about it. It's a great wedding,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was a lot of fun also. Uh.
Speaker 1: One of my final thoughts. Everyone will think that I
Speaker 1: hate on Turkey's mostly it's just for fun, because that's funny.
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny. It's like one of those things.
Speaker 1: It's like I can pick the turkey guy that's a
Speaker 1: fanatic about turkey and just go after him only because
Speaker 1: I think I've got that turkey hunter distaste from guiding
Speaker 1: him Montanas or guiding elk hunter so much, and these
Speaker 1: guys coming and going, oh yeah olk cutting, No, I've
Speaker 1: I've got it. It's just like turkey hunting. I'm like, nah' sorry,
Speaker 1: I've been turkey hunting. It's nothing like they make similarities. No,
Speaker 1: sheep hunting. It's a lot like turkey hunting. I think
Speaker 1: what I think of turkey hunting is being like a
Speaker 1: little mini elk hunt because it's like it does have
Speaker 1: this right that there's a male and he has this
Speaker 1: audacious noise he makes and then there's a female and
Speaker 1: she has sort of a more a more tempered kind
Speaker 1: of calm version that she makes, and you're using the
Speaker 1: one to bring in the other, and you sit up
Speaker 1: on a high spot and you're praying to hear a goble,
Speaker 1: just like you're praying to hear a bugle. If I
Speaker 1: was yeah, it's like saying elk hunting is a lot
Speaker 1: like well, then turkey hunting is all like pigeon hunting.
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I would never say it, right, I
Speaker 1: think Yanni does say it. Yeah, so yeah, but I
Speaker 1: see where they're coming from. I get it, But it's also,
Speaker 1: in my mind, two completely different things. And if anybody
Speaker 1: that has said that to me while I've been guiding
Speaker 1: them learned within a few minutes that it was not
Speaker 1: the same. So I'm like, all right, Like a statement
Speaker 1: of saying the hunting of the two is similar, I
Speaker 1: would say that that's pretty false for obvious reasons to anybody.
Speaker 1: But I think when you start talking about interacting and
Speaker 1: calling animals, there are any other animals that I've hunted
Speaker 1: anywhere where you call and interact with like that. And
Speaker 1: I've done a little bit of duck hunting now and
Speaker 1: that's that gender. That's that gender specific. What calling ducks
Speaker 1: isn't the same thing. But that's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's the same thing at all. You know,
Speaker 1: even though a lot of people get into the interaction,
Speaker 1: but it's still not like you're not playing the hen
Speaker 1: or the cow and trying to call in a bowl,
Speaker 1: or you could play with the gobbler or another bull
Speaker 1: and calling the bull. Yeah, terrain similarly to you know,
Speaker 1: to bring the animal over a roll to come see
Speaker 1: you know, you making that call. I mean, you do
Speaker 1: those same two exact tactics. He's gonna be like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a lot like turkey hunt. I used to disagreem,
Speaker 1: but now I agree. Um cal, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: mean all all good things. That fish deal man, we've
Speaker 1: been over that a million times, and similar circles on
Speaker 1: fishing fish off their reds and yeah, it said, it's
Speaker 1: a real interesting one. Um I had something to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: please do. I didn't have my head set on earlier.
Speaker 1: We didn't have a head set. But it's kind of
Speaker 1: like the stocked pond. You can make an analogy with
Speaker 1: the stocked pond, right, like fishing the reds all of us.
Speaker 1: Probably that would ethnically like kind of not do it
Speaker 1: now for trout or just whether it's ectics or just
Speaker 1: kind of like whatever, it's too easy. It's fishing to bucket.
Speaker 1: The first time you went and did it, you're probably like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, it's fun, you know, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you know, and then this second or third time, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like going back to this stocked trout pod.
Speaker 1: The second Yeah, all right. See that's the thing. That's
Speaker 1: why I feel a little bit of guilt because I
Speaker 1: remember um hearing about and really like exploring and trying
Speaker 1: to find the mythical brown trout spawn. Yeah. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: this is before it was a bad thing. I remember
Speaker 1: people like I remember reading in like guide books, you know,
Speaker 1: good areas to go look for spawning browns. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: bets probably could find. Guy books told you how to
Speaker 1: you know, blow up Candida Geese off Damns by packing
Speaker 1: a buckshot around dynamite sticks to you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: build yourself a cannon. What you're gonna need. Uh. So
Speaker 1: that's your concluding thought. You just want to touch back
Speaker 1: on something earlier. Oh, I guess I'll just say thanks.
Speaker 1: I love these discussions. That's good and uh and yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess also absolutely blown away at how much this
Speaker 1: b h A rendevous has grown. It's crazy. We had
Speaker 1: those seminars this morning, nuts and I asked, h, I
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta introduce Remy for his Q and a
Speaker 1: UM and be the moderator for him. But asked out
Speaker 1: of the gate, how many people is this year first rendezvous?
Speaker 1: And I mean it had to have been over fifty
Speaker 1: of that rare I thought it was even more like
Speaker 1: eighty plus percent. There's a there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: in there. Surprised me. See it's four hundred and that
Speaker 1: had to be over three I think. Yeah. The first
Speaker 1: one I went to was probably six or seven years
Speaker 1: ago and it was at the fair ground in Missoula,
Speaker 1: and I gave a talk to like the dinner thing
Speaker 1: and uh most maybe a hundred fifty people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so it's growing like crazy. Anik market spot on
Speaker 1: And I mean the youth is so encouraging to see
Speaker 1: it's the youngest uh um kind of rotten gun anything
Speaker 1: I've been around, so um pretty neat to see hopefully
Speaker 1: make its impacts. I think as far as uh, there's
Speaker 1: lots of talk today, Um, in the last couple of
Speaker 1: days really about you know, how we move the needle
Speaker 1: as far as new hunter recruitment and hunter retaining retainment,
Speaker 1: and um, just like like Remy said many times this morning,
Speaker 1: it's like, we gotta every single person is an ambassador
Speaker 1: for what we love to do, and we gotta do
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot better job putting a better
Speaker 1: face on it. So, yeah, it's been a cool, uh
Speaker 1: cool couple of days so far. Mr Phelps. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: this is my first b H rendezvous. It's been awesome. Um.
Speaker 1: The only thing that's kind of open my eyes is
Speaker 1: I'm fairly conservative. I come from a logging town, and
Speaker 1: then you kind of show up with people that maybe
Speaker 1: you don't see eye to eye with, but we're all
Speaker 1: here for the one thing that we love. So they're
Speaker 1: less taxes. You're like, and I'm gonna make a funny joke,
Speaker 1: you know, like the shiny puffy coats. I kind of
Speaker 1: make a joke like at home, I'm the guy in
Speaker 1: a fleece because that's old school. But yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've never been around so many hunters in a shiny
Speaker 1: puffy coat before. But it's cool because you can take that.
Speaker 1: And we're all here for the same reason. We all
Speaker 1: love to recreate on public land. We all love to
Speaker 1: hunt and fish on it. And for all of us
Speaker 1: to come together, um as a group of people with
Speaker 1: the one passion and be laser focused on public lands,
Speaker 1: is it is awesome? Um? Yeah, And I do want
Speaker 1: to do you? Do you feel that this? Can you
Speaker 1: check this out? No, it's got a first, it's got
Speaker 1: a first. Let you can check it out like part
Speaker 1: part of my jackets a little shiny. No, No, you're good. No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Remy's Remy's a jerk for shooting turkeys
Speaker 1: have a tree? How about bearded hands? So there's two sides,
Speaker 1: like and then we didn't you guys didn't even really
Speaker 1: get into like the genetic mutation side of it, like
Speaker 1: maybe we should get those things out of here? Are
Speaker 1: they bad? I don't know if it's bad. I've just
Speaker 1: heard that side of the story, like it is a
Speaker 1: genetic mutation and we should shoot those things. I would
Speaker 1: say that without genetic mutations, Um, I feel like life
Speaker 1: would have ended a long time ago. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just saying I I wouldn't specifically target one
Speaker 1: of one came walking through the setup and I knew
Speaker 1: it was a bearded him. I would probably let it go.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's one of those things where you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pass my my own belief onto something.
Speaker 1: You know, if you want to shoot, it's within the
Speaker 1: state laws. And that kind of gets back to the
Speaker 1: the fishing thing, um, you know where where kel doesn't
Speaker 1: want to fish over over the edds, but then maybe
Speaker 1: my kid does because that's a different experience, and so
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily say we want to put laws that
Speaker 1: you know, cover that or blanket it for everybody. But
Speaker 1: then you know he's out there for the sport and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know the uncertainty of of hooking up
Speaker 1: one we're like me taking my kid. Maybe I don't
Speaker 1: want to do that, but I want to have the
Speaker 1: ability to take my kid and hook up to that fish.
Speaker 1: And so I think there's a and you know, you
Speaker 1: gotta look at it through that scope of of who
Speaker 1: the person is and um, you know, take take it
Speaker 1: for what it is. When you were talking earlier about uh,
Speaker 1: like political spectrums, do you feel that uh, do you
Speaker 1: feel that that people right, who who lean politically right,
Speaker 1: and people lean people who lean politically left. Do you
Speaker 1: see like in your community that people coalesce around the
Speaker 1: idea of supporting public lands or in particularly supporting federal
Speaker 1: land management agencies and sort of assisting them and and
Speaker 1: you know, giving them verbal support and helping them, you know,
Speaker 1: make decisions that allow access. But you know, do do
Speaker 1: you feel that there's that people are coming around this
Speaker 1: idea on your community or do you feel that it's
Speaker 1: a divisive issue in your community? In the dead center
Speaker 1: of Warehouser Country, you know, the biggest land management manager
Speaker 1: in the state of Washington, and so we don't there's
Speaker 1: a very select few of us that have to travel
Speaker 1: two hours to the east to recreate on you know,
Speaker 1: some federal lands. Um, we have some state owned ends
Speaker 1: and stuff. But so I would around home, it's more
Speaker 1: of interest on like how warehouses managing, not necessarily on
Speaker 1: on the you guys are recreating on publicly accessible land
Speaker 1: that's privately owned. Well, now, as long as you pay
Speaker 1: three and fifty bucks, you get a key. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: bought a hundred dollar pass for walking. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you can do that. Yeah, I mean everybody everybody finds
Speaker 1: it important, you know, anything that that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: affects them and their recreation and people are passionate about
Speaker 1: So we don't get a big push in my area
Speaker 1: for public lands besides a few of us that that
Speaker 1: you know, routinely drive two hours eastern saying so when
Speaker 1: you're when you're hunting local, you're hunting warehouse warehouses or
Speaker 1: privately owned industrial which yeah, and that's like that too,
Speaker 1: is a significant thing. And I think that that's a
Speaker 1: I think people look at the public lands debate and
Speaker 1: groups like b h A that really support public lands,
Speaker 1: and I think other people kind of have this question,
Speaker 1: like like our friend Doug, who's very involved in private
Speaker 1: land conservation, and he'll kind of feel like he doesn't
Speaker 1: really say this, but I think it's sometimes he feels like,
Speaker 1: why all of a sudden, all this attention, Like most
Speaker 1: land in the country, especially in these most land's private land.
Speaker 1: If we're gonna get serious about conservation with it, to
Speaker 1: pay a lot of attention to private land conservation, that's
Speaker 1: where real con that's where some of the most important
Speaker 1: conservation work. But you know, I would say him, um,
Speaker 1: and I do say to him, but but there's not
Speaker 1: an emptiness there. I think that we have stuff in
Speaker 1: place to try to do that, like farm bills, CRP programs.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot more dollars per acre that
Speaker 1: go into private land conservation issues. But I think he
Speaker 1: kind of feels that, um, there's a sort of lack
Speaker 1: of sexiness around all that, just like the work of
Speaker 1: doing good wildlife work on private land. And I think
Speaker 1: like that there's this third area too, which is these
Speaker 1: sort of almost like wilderness type places, these big tree
Speaker 1: farms which are the size of they only land the
Speaker 1: size of National four Us that are you know, privately held,
Speaker 1: and there's a conservation question to have there too, and
Speaker 1: also like giving them some giving them the credit of
Speaker 1: allowing a public access program. They're not making tons of
Speaker 1: money on public access. And I think it comes back
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm a little off here, but it comes
Speaker 1: back to the reason we're so passionate about public lands
Speaker 1: is all eight of us in this room can end
Speaker 1: up at some wilderness in Colorado hunting, and so we are,
Speaker 1: um all concerned about the conservation on that piece of
Speaker 1: public land. Where a private land in Oowa, I have
Speaker 1: this much interest in it because I'm never gonna get
Speaker 1: a hunt there, even though I do care about the species.
Speaker 1: So I think it comes back to a little bit
Speaker 1: of that selfish nature that all of us in this
Speaker 1: room can take it and not take advantage. But we
Speaker 1: we have the ability to to recreate on some of
Speaker 1: this public land that potentially holds the animals we want
Speaker 1: to go pursue where that private land back east and
Speaker 1: it just doesn't hold anything for us, even though we
Speaker 1: all do care about you know, the the white tail,
Speaker 1: and and you know the stuff that is back there
Speaker 1: that that I may not you know, get the get
Speaker 1: the hunt that private proper. Ever, you know, uh, are
Speaker 1: you talking about Dog? He's got a funny story. I
Speaker 1: kind of hesitate to tell this. I don't want to
Speaker 1: get Dog in trouble. Well I'll tell it. So Dougs
Speaker 1: in a bar and a guy, like a local guy
Speaker 1: in the bar. It's like, oh, yeah, if you want
Speaker 1: to hunt Doug's place, you gotta be like a celebrity.
Speaker 1: You know, Doug won't anybody on his place, and dogs
Speaker 1: is half the bar. Goes, I was just hunting Dog's place,
Speaker 1: So that goes. Baby, You don't hunt Doug's place because
Speaker 1: you're an asshole. So there is Yeah, I think there
Speaker 1: is that, like, sure, you're doing great work, but what's
Speaker 1: the how's it benefit me? Um? Yeah, that's a that's
Speaker 1: a funny thing to bring up, that there is some
Speaker 1: sort of like a little bit of a selfish nature
Speaker 1: about public land because you're looking out for your own
Speaker 1: best interest. I remember saying it before that if someone
Speaker 1: came to me, like like with the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,
Speaker 1: if I had to make a deal. We're talking about
Speaker 1: this with John Garrick. I think if I had to
Speaker 1: make a deal with the devil and they said, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's here's the here's the story, Sonny, you never you're
Speaker 1: never allowed to step foot back here in exchange for
Speaker 1: that will never drill it, but you'll never see it again,
Speaker 1: or you can come here all you want. I would
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'll take the I'll take the I
Speaker 1: don't step foot on it ever again. Deal, Like, let's
Speaker 1: go with that one. So I think that it's not always,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, I think that you wind up having
Speaker 1: this idea um of that you do have a sense
Speaker 1: of ownership over and whether you're gonna use it or not.
Speaker 1: It feels the same way. That's why I think the
Speaker 1: thing that needs to happen in the conservation world is
Speaker 1: the sense of um and it happens in other factions,
Speaker 1: other cultural factions were an attack on one is an
Speaker 1: attack on all. But I think that a lot of
Speaker 1: times outdoors may tend to be very sort of myopic
Speaker 1: and kind of provincial in their view of that. They're
Speaker 1: really worried about their corner of the world, and it's
Speaker 1: like harder to picture. Like for me, I've never hunt
Speaker 1: in Nebraska, so maybe a conservation issue of Nebraska doesn't
Speaker 1: feel as immediate to me, right, But to try to
Speaker 1: foster this conservation sense where where people do they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's trouble brewing Nebraska. I don't go there, probably never
Speaker 1: will go there, don't have anybodies there. But I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come in their defense and help him out on this
Speaker 1: this wildlife issue, just because I'm viewing it like an
Speaker 1: attack on one, his attack on all. But I think
Speaker 1: it's super frustrating. It's gotta it's not can't only be
Speaker 1: a direct threat. It has to be an immediate, direct
Speaker 1: threat for the hunting community to get really fired up
Speaker 1: from what I've seen right now, let me get my
Speaker 1: boots on, uh Mark bourbon concluders. I got a couple one.
Speaker 1: My level of guilt for shooting the spirited hand is
Speaker 1: off the charts right now. But I put some thought
Speaker 1: into it because I was thinking that you got to
Speaker 1: feeling guilty about the beard and head, well, yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's I felt bad because well, and actually I'll say this,
Speaker 1: I kind of felt bad at the moment too. But
Speaker 1: I put some thought into why those rules are in place,
Speaker 1: and I think it applies to the scenario in which
Speaker 1: this incident happened, where I called this burden identified with
Speaker 1: absolute certainty that it had a beard, Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: made the decision to pull the trigger based on that,
Speaker 1: And then upon further discovery, I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a unique thing. Yeah, but you gotta have some marker,
Speaker 1: Like you can't say male or female because um, you're
Speaker 1: gonna invite because people are gonna be like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna what's the best way to indicate male or femaleness?
Speaker 1: And someone might very reasonably say a beard because you're
Speaker 1: not gonna tell him look at the spurs because it's
Speaker 1: hard to see spurns like it's down on its foot
Speaker 1: and he's walking through tall grass. So you can have that.
Speaker 1: You can't say like, oh, you gotta wait till he
Speaker 1: fans out in struts and displays because a lot of
Speaker 1: times they don't do that, or he'll gobble. Well maybe
Speaker 1: he comes in quiet, so at some point. And then
Speaker 1: there's there's things with the head, like a seasoned turkey
Speaker 1: hunter will look at the head, especially in the spring,
Speaker 1: and know what they're looking at, but not always so
Speaker 1: the same way, dear, like it doesn't say well some
Speaker 1: states people say like a boker male, but oftentimes it's
Speaker 1: an antlered deer. Because you gotta go, like, what is
Speaker 1: the identifying feature that we're all going to agree upon?
Speaker 1: So the fact that one and one turkeys is masquerading
Speaker 1: around with the beard, I don't think it's like a
Speaker 1: it's a legitimate mistake to make. Right. You see, you're
Speaker 1: sitting there in the woods and here comes to turkey
Speaker 1: and also there's that beard. It's like game on most people.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's why I'm I'm I'm almost wondering
Speaker 1: and I don't know right, But like like you said,
Speaker 1: it's an identifying feature, so that rule is put in place.
Speaker 1: So if something like does like that does happen, like
Speaker 1: that person didn't break the law right because was the
Speaker 1: intent was not there. Like my guess would be that
Speaker 1: if there was no such thing as a bearded hint,
Speaker 1: they'd be like, how you can only shoot you know,
Speaker 1: So you know that's my that's my And then my
Speaker 1: other concluder, so's tearing you up? Have you pitched forker
Speaker 1: Brown off his spawning bed regularly? And then my other
Speaker 1: concluder is yeah, I mean, and I'll just echo Mark
Speaker 1: and Cow's uh thoughts on the on the b ch
Speaker 1: a rendezvous, cool event, awesome like minded people. I think
Speaker 1: there's um a unique electricity and a unique energy and
Speaker 1: a strong momentum of of groups that maybe that hunt
Speaker 1: and fish, but maybe cross a few other boundaries. And
Speaker 1: uh and I think, you know, I think that momentum
Speaker 1: is gonna hopefully you know, carry through where people whether
Speaker 1: you do hunting fish or you know, enjoy public lands
Speaker 1: for other recrea sational purposes. You know, we can all
Speaker 1: agree on the same thing, that about how important they are.
Speaker 1: Well said, I got two concluders, no kind of one
Speaker 1: who was here when we were talking about all the
Speaker 1: way different ways they um artificially inseminate and extract semen
Speaker 1: from dogs and whatnot. You were here, yea, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I el Rannie and Doug a guy to listen to that,
Speaker 1: and wrote in how he uh when he wasn't doing
Speaker 1: animal and physiology studying in a veterinary school, he was
Speaker 1: talking about their method of horse seeman collection as they
Speaker 1: would have this, uh he calls it a large wooden
Speaker 1: contraption that the stallion would do his business too. And
Speaker 1: after it did his business, you would use a They
Speaker 1: demonstrated how to use it like a little straw, and
Speaker 1: you just use a little vacuum created with your own
Speaker 1: mouth to kind of fill that straw with the semen
Speaker 1: after he deposed on this, and then you've just packed
Speaker 1: the straw away for later years. And you say, you
Speaker 1: only you don't you only oversuck once, then you don't
Speaker 1: make that you don't make that mistake again. But we
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot. I'm not gonna go through all.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of feedback from people about how
Speaker 1: to extract semen from various creatures that i'll I'll not
Speaker 1: get into right now, but I wanted to share that
Speaker 1: one quickly. And the only thing I wanted to say
Speaker 1: is um, this is from the bottom of my heart, like, uh, dude,
Speaker 1: it is so nice to have people like all of
Speaker 1: you guys to talk to, like honestly man um Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he sense of loneliness one feels in the world,
Speaker 1: Like find a group of guys like you so you
Speaker 1: can like talk about this ship and they understand what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Uh. It makes me feel very happy
Speaker 1: and alive. So thank you very much everyone for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks for having