WEBVTT - Ep. 113: I'm Right And You're Wrong 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:25.479 can't predict anything, alright, So right off the bat, before 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:30.400 we even introduce everyone, Jason Phelps, I'm gonna we're gonna build, 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:36.280 We're we're gonna create an elaborate We're gonna create a scenario. Okay, okay, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.040 and you're gonna respond to the scenario, like like how 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.040 you would suggest people to respond to the scenario? All right? Now? 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:50.519 Who um, who can do like a pretty convincing gobbl noise? Oh? Mark? Yeah? 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.080 Mark Kenyon, going me a sample for you? Yeah? Let 0:00:53.120 --> 0:01:00.680 me yea, let me let me Okay, So you guys, 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.040 you know how you know when when you get a 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.800 couple of glars gobbling over each other, and then who 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.040 can be an angry hen? I'll go, I'll go angry. 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.600 Hen You're gonna be a You're gonna be you're the 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:19.800 boss gobbler, marks them. We haven't even got to do 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.320 get out yet, Okay, marks the boss gobler. And Remy's 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.480 like the guybler always tries to gobble over the boss gobler. Okay, 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:33.440 and we need a angry hen. I can't do it now? 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:40.959 Can anyone do an angry hen who's doing that? Oh? No, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:47.960 aid of yeah, but I want her like angry. Okay, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.280 So okay, So here you are. I'm gonna paint the 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.120 scenario for you. All right, Okay, it's Jason Phelps Felts 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.840 game calls. You've been making a lot of calls. I 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.320 have just like our dudes buying turkey calls right now 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.400 or did they already buy them? They are still right 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.040 up to the last day, right up for the last 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.720 week buying. There's still guys like now that it's opening 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.560 day tomorrow. But the typical responses, Hey, if I ordered 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:10.880 the day, can you get him out tomorrow? And when 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:12.360 they beat at me by the next day, can you 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.239 have my can you have to my camps up? Yeah? No, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.519 it's okay. So here you are. It's dark, okay, and 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.960 and uh you're a hundred fifty yards away, and here's 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:36.120 what's happening. Okay, So that's what's going on. Okay. So 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.000 we're gonna do real soft tree ELPs if they're still 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:39.800 on the tree. So this is so okay. So so 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.160 you're you're calculating they're up in the roost and you're 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:50.320 gonna this is how you're gonna do it. And no, Paul, 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.760 it's not gonna be a lot. You know, drag goes out. Well, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.600 these galblers are low t because normal goblins would have 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.760 been all over that. Yeah. So if my calling is 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.359 that bad that they won't even respond out of the 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.000 root to my to my TREEO. Um, so that's your TREEO? 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.920 Really quiet? Four to five yelps? And what are you 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.560 think of when you think in the trio, I'm just 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.120 letting him know. Ideally I'm still on the tree as 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.080 a hen. You know, they they they're pretty good at pinpointing. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.880 But I'm trying to let them know there is a 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.440 you know, a hen over in that tree, and say trio. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.560 When you say trio, you're saying that, not that you're 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.480 yelping to them in the tree, but you're in your 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.600 tree too. Still on my tree, I haven't flown down yet, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.720 so I'm trying to paint that picture. You may, they 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.480 usually roost next to some other hands. They knows it 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:34.840 for sure, thing, But I want to let him know, Hey, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.560 there's another hen that's over here. Okay, hit me with 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:46.120 the tree. Help again. And so by their instant response, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.360 I know they just heard that, and so I may 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.800 not get really aggressive. I might do. That's enough, um, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.040 just to just to acknowledge that, because I'm getting to 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.120 a part point in my life where I feel like, 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.280 if I was better at mass, I would figure if 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.640 he made no noise at all, What are the knowing 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.280 that it's a three sixty degree circle around the gobblers tree? 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:06.920 What are the odds that he's just gonna walk past 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.200 you anyway? And it changes the farther out you get. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.760 I feel, yeah, it would be a good math question 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.920 because I feel like I have like I feel like, 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.280 as much as you think you're gonna call gobblers off 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:22.080 the roost, it probably works about as many times? Is 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.240 what the odds are that he's gonna walk through year 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.080 five degree band? Yeah, I'm gonna say, I'm I'm pretty 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.400 good at turkey off the roost math, and it's usually 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.760 zero times, like fow tries, so zero percent that thing. 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.200 No matter what, I've never still to this day killed 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.880 the turkey off the roost. Yeah, I've been there when 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.800 it's happened, but many But then I feel like, well, yeah, eventually, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:43.440 eventually it makes sense that he'll leave the roost and 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.719 when he has, and he'll pick the spoke of the 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.880 wheel that I happen to be sitting up. And that's 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:54.279 the times. But now, so who is the angry hen? Yeah? 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.040 Well yeah, okay, so now then we hit you with 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:58.919 this scenario now, and then i'nna hitt you with another scenario. 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.080 So here's the scenario. Um, you're angry handing it. I 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.600 can do that too, I guess. Okay, So so rem 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:13.200 hit your go well, hit your tree out, and Mark 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.680 hits your angry hand. Okay, now what are you thinking? 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.920 Has your thought changed? So he did he call it before? 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:23.320 He called it before I did my tree up, so 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.760 he never acknowledged me. I may tree up again and 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.880 see if I can get him to spark off on that. Yet, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:39.359 let's try. I just want him to all right, and 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.600 then I'll probably be quiet. I want him to come, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.640 even though the angry hand is now angry. Yeah, I 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.479 mean you don't want to. They're typically fairly quiet in 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.200 the tree, so you don't want to overdo it. Why 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:50.640 you're still on the tree and it's too dark to 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.320 pitch down, so you're just trying to He's acknowledged me 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.680 now and then I'm gonna be quiet until they do 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:57.279 heat up the right before they fly down, so we 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.719 may get back in the game at that point. Yeah, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.359 because then they hit the ground and then so and 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.120 so often never make a peep because I mean, they 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.279 made eye contact, they know what they're after. They don't 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.440 need to communicate at that point, and so they seem 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.600 to kind of they get pretty active right before they 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.480 pitched down, and then kind of go silent there for 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.040 a little bit, and then they'll pick back up. And 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:16.720 I'm gonna hit you with a notice scenario, and this 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:18.640 is the one that gives me a little chub. So 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.640 all this happens and then nothing comes of it, and 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.680 then you kind of wander around the woods all morning 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.960 and around ten am, okay, which is when a lot 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.960 of turkeys get shot, at least the ones I shoot 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:41.240 at around ten am. All of a sudden, Now what 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.320 are you thinking? So before I make a sound, I 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.560 want to get as close as close as the terrain 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.640 and the vegetation will allow, before I make a peep. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.000 He's just he's just giving up his location. I want 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.920 to be as silent as I can. I'll get as 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:54.440 close as it lets me and then I'll sit down 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.600 and I'm going because he's been out love making the 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.239 hands all morning, they all drift off and so before 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:00.760 that happens. Also, what's going on in my head is 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.520 this thing just let off a beagle in the middle 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.760 of the day by himself. He's probably looking for hens 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.080 at that point you all the hens went into lay 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.200 um and so I'm already thinking this is a you know, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.240 not a for sure thing, but my odds are very 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.480 very high at that bird. As you mentioned, you're you're 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.520 killing them at tend to to noon um, very very 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.280 high in that tend to two window um when they gobble. 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:21.640 So I'm gonna go get set up and I'm gonna 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.760 go to my seven to nine note you know, yelp, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.640 And if I can only bring one call in the woods, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.960 it would be this, your typical yelp. So this is 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.160 what you're hitting the middle of the day, hot gabbler yep. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:43.960 So we'll go sit down, little and so we'll react 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.040 to that gobble thing a little bit, you know, is 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.320 if he gobbles all, maybe try to turn the temperature 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.160 up um with the yelps, and then if he becomes disinterested, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.679 we'll maybe give it five ten minutes and then go back. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:56.400 I'm not really good at be impatient. I say five 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.280 to ten, which is probably like thirty seconds, and then 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.600 I'll call again. Okay, so now here he is and 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.680 he shuts up, but you can hear him who knows 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.480 how to make a spit and it's spitting and drum 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:17.040 and I could do this. It's uh yeah. So you're 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.840 hearing that and it just drags on. You're like, what 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:23.840 are you going on? Then? What are you gonna hit 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:28.240 him with? Then we we'll switch the real subtle um clucks, purrs, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.000 maybe you know, even scratching the ground next to me. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:32.280 A lot of times when I set up, I'll try 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.120 to bring some brush or some leaves next to me. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.480 We'll we'll scratch around and that just real subtle noise. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:38.679 At that time, they can try to get him to 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:40.599 the pull in that last twenty or thirty yards or 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.720 whatever it may be, because you're trying to sound like 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.679 a hand scratch that that purr and clucks, that real 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.200 content sound, and so you don't want to necessarily want 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.960 to blow him out anymore with that louder yelp or 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.439 you know, excited cackles. You're just really trying to get 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.760 him that last little bit or what we did in 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.800 some instances. A lot of times we'll play this cat 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.600 and mouse where you change setups and you just won't 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.120 come close. Sure, we may give a little call and 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.120 then we just go silent and like all right, well, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:06.920 you know there's a tricky here. You get to the 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.240 you know it's in your hands now. So it hit 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.960 us with some of those more subtle tones tones tunes 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.200 that and as I mentioned the mark earlier, that that 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:30.840 read's not meant to purr. It's more of a that 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:32.280 yelper read. But you know, if if I had the 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.040 right read and we do some pern just as real 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.520 light subtle clucks um and just real quiet sounds. Yeah, 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.360 the first time I ever hunted with a really good 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.640 turkey caller that he never did you know we were. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.080 This is in South Carolina, which is like well known 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.480 for having wildly kg turkeys, and dude, he never ripped out. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.400 Like everything he would do was just like just he's 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.120 so subtle, little teensy noises, you know, when you're on 0:09:58.160 --> 0:09:59.960 the woods and hear something to do with a box call. Right. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.679 But then near day I was on YouTube and if 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.160 there's a video of a real live hen who full 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:10.000 balls out yelps sixty two times in a row. If 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:11.439 you were in the woods and heard that, you think 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.880 that is some idiot over there to the box call 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.240 going crazy on a box. So yeah, real subtle sounds 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:19.760 when they're in tight If you can hear spinning drum 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.959 and can't see the bird yet, um quiet, Yeah, not 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.720 last thing on turkeys. A couple of years ago, hunting 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.559 in California, I was doing that, calling back and forth 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.000 to a gobbler gobbling. I'm calling, gobl, I'm calling, and 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.800 it just drags on and evenci I'm thinking to myself, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.400 I'm gonna go over to a new spot and try 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:44.400 to call him to the next ridge. But in traveling 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.120 over there it takes a while, so I don't make 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.840 any noise for fifteen minutes to get to the next ridge. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.040 By the time I get to the next ridge, I 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.440 call and as some bitches standing right right left from 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.000 exactly because he eventually got curious there's no noise for 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.280 so long, he's like, what happened to We had such 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.480 a thing going, like what happened to her? So then 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.640 I call and I'm like Oh, now he's gobbling right 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.400 from where I was sitting. So the I just shut up. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.840 In a while later, sure enough, here he's standing there. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.320 I just got because he enjoys. I think he was 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.080 enjoying whatever bird version of enjoyment is. He was enjoying 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:22.960 that little deah the game. Yeah, um, so make a 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.840 big plug for make a big plug for Phelps game calls. Man, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.040 not good at that stuff, but no, um so we've 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.040 I'll do it. Let me take a stab at you. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:35.640 Let me take a stab at it. Um. In an 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.680 American elbow grease story where a guy pounding away making 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:45.720 high quality calls and making a nice good business cranking 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:51.520 away in his home builds a business up and makes 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.440 like phenomenal calls and insiders. No, the Phelps calls are right? 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.240 How's that? I love it? Now you do something like 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.280 that like this whole a promotion thing is just not 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.199 good with me. Um No, we well you want to 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.440 plug someone else's called? No, you know, I think some 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.000 people you know, listen to your podcast of the story. Um, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.000 it's just been a lot of passion, and this whole 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.800 company has been driven by pass We wanted to build 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.000 the better mouse trap. Um, come up with the specific 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.000 sounds we were we were looking for, and UM, we're 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.960 pretty excited. You know, we've we've did very well with 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.280 the Turkey calls. Majority our elk calls are our bread 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.480 and butter still UM, but we're really excited as we 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.439 move into the next year. We've got a full Predator, lion, 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.160 waterfell line, UM Deer call line. Everything's finally going to 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.200 be where I kind of envisioned it way back when 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.280 we started. So we're pretty excited to kind of get 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.240 out of that elk call rat UM Turkey call sprinkled in, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.439 but we'll have a full Turkey call line and UM 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.320 will be kind of a complete UM call company at 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:51.360 that point. So your phone call is the best, the 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.920 most effective black Bear call I've ever used, and spring 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.120 black Bears coming up. That's coming from Callahan and we'll 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:05.800 get around intros a minute. UM UH website, UM www, 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.959 dot Phelps, Game Calls, dot com. UM we're you know, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.120 for everybody's on social media. We're very easy to get 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.160 ahold of UM contact UM, your messages, emails, all of 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.480 that stuff is on the website and on social media. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.640 Excellent man, Thanks coming out and doing Turkey primer. Yeah, 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.000 we're gonna rush this episode into into into being so 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.640 that people can capitalize on that. All right, on the 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.760 on those sweet sounds and sweet notes. Um, okay, it's 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.840 a huge room full of people. Uh, as though dealing poker. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.160 We'll do intros. It's more like a small room full 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.160 of people. Yeah, small room full of lots lots of 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:48.880 people to brody strapping into a set. Good, Yeah, hit it, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.760 introduce yourself there you go here, I am b h 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.640 a rendezvous. How to drive ten hours north to uh 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.880 to leave winter behind? It's all nice up here now, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.400 beautiful and down and you're part of the in your 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.839 neck of the woods. Almost died like five minutes from 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:12.360 my house driving yesterday was the snow. Yeah. Mark Kenyon 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.080 here from Michigan. Mark Kenyon, Wired to Hunt podcast. Yes, sir, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.520 we still have winter at home too. It's no good. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.840 Remy Warren, Remy Warren, just hanging from Reno from Reno. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.560 You're on your honeymoon? Fijis it got colder for me? 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:40.920 Ryan Callahan pH a Rendezvous podcasting first Light and uh 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.000 Mark Boardman. Mark Boardman worked for Vortax Optics out of 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.200 good old Wisconsin, And yeah, enjoying the lovely weather we're 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.560 experiencing in Boise at the dh A rendevou. Okay, we're 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.800 gonna um, We're gonna cover a handful of things. But 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.080 first off, we got a mega correction, mega correction. Like 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.080 people were kind of irate, like this is one of 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.120 things that one of the biggest corrections, the biggest wrongs 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.960 we ever have had is I screwed up and was 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.160 reading how the how it's a it's a double layered 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:17.440 screw up. Keep explaining honest, yeah, let me let me, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.320 let me why why you're doing that. I'll sort of 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.440 set up the screw up. We were already discussing some 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:28.120 issues about baiting in Alabama, where in Alabama you've always 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:33.960 been allowed to um do supplemental feeding for deer, but 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.360 you couldn't bait for hunting purposes. So they came in 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.760 and tried to clarify the distinction between supplemental feeding for 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.000 deer and hunting purposes. And once they spelled it out, 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.680 it seemed to have, according to some people, invited a 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.520 level of interpretation where it said, for instance, it can't 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.040 you know, it has to be a hundred yards away 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.360 from you, like you're if you're hunting, any bait has 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.680 to be more than a hundred yards away from you. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.880 It has to be out of sight from you from 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.960 a landscape feature. And a guy rode in to say, well, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.600 people are exploiting this now and in putting a bait 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.480 behind a big hay bale yards away and saying well, 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.120 I can't see it, right, And it was causing this confusion, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.920 and that led to this other thing where the House 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.360 in Alabama, the state House voted to just outright legalized 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.200 baiting for deer and pigs. And we talked about how 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.120 that was a new law in Alabama, but in fact 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.640 not even kind of um, it was never made it 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.480 to vote in the Senate, right, and then it's not 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.480 a law. Break it down, Ny, And this is you 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:43.840 just broke it down. I don't know what else you 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.640 want me to add. It didn't make it so it's illegal. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.400 Debate which I was so weird about, like the supplemental feeding, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.480 like I don't really understand that we should maybe looked 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.600 into that. But so I guess you can still do that. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.320 You can feed wildlife, right, which can't bait for the 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.080 sake of hunting. And so this judge that rode In 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.520 was saying that they when they wrote this sort of 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.199 thing to help clarify, they actually muddy the waters in 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.840 the process by saying, like, oh well, if it's like 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.200 more than a hundred yards away and you can't see it, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.960 then it's not really a bait pile. But he said 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.359 that he and every other judge that has had to 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:24.040 rule on baiting cases, which they do, um that they 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.560 pretty much say, look, man, if if like, if if 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.879 at all you can like see where that deer or 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.080 whatever it is that you're hunting is in that zone 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.359 of that bait pile, like, we're gonna call it baton. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.480 We're gonna call it what it is. If it's on 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.480 the other side of a ridge from you, we're not 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.960 gonna call it baton, but a hay biale a hundred 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:43.960 yards away, which is what someone wrote to us to 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:49.080 say people do is clearly illegal, like not a natural 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:54.040 landscape feature. Um so does that? And that brings up 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.919 a quick question from Mark Kenyon. A guy wrote in 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.199 to ask this, and it makes me think of it 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:03.560 right now. Why is in the in the white tail world, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.600 you're a big white tail fella. They call me a 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.959 white tail guy. H you call me a white tail guy. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.920 I guess yeah, you called yourself a white tail freak. 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.359 I think one time. So so Mark, like if you 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.640 don't know it, like if you dig, if you dig 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.520 on white tails and just all things white tails. Marks, Uh. 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.359 Wired Hunt podcast is what you ought to be listening 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.119 to because Marco's way beyond and we even get close 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.200 to when it comes to talking about white tails, which 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.680 is what you know. It's America's hunting this animal right. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.000 But a question that I would like you to take on, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.720 Mark at Guy wrote in and say, why is in 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.639 some circles, why is bait bad? Food plots are not bad? Yeah, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.840 that's something you've gotta have been asked a thousands. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.400 it's a big thing. People talk. People that don't like 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.400 bait haters like to pose that question a lot because 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.320 there's a lot of consciensation people that don't like bait haters, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:58.920 So there's a lot of there's a lot of people 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.480 that hate on people that use and those guys that 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.440 do bait. I like to say, well, you're a hypocrite 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.159 because you plant food plots, so you are changing the 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.760 landscape or doing something that is attracting deer away from 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.280 their natural patterns to a new place. So is it? 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:15.840 So where do you stand on this? Are you a 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.439 bait hater not a bait hater? But I'm not a 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.560 bait user. So I don't like debate, but my dad does. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.480 So whatever, more power to you can do whatever you 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.639 prefer to do. I would rather not, but I do 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:32.520 plant food plots because for me, that is um two things. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.480 Number One, with a food plot, with a habitat improvement, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.159 you're putting in a whole There's a whole lot of 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.240 work and thought and effort going into that. So it 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:44.439 feels like you're, I don't know, going through some threshold 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.800 of like work put into something that I don't feel 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.800 like you achieved. The same was dumping a pile of corn. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.720 Number two, You're Okay, that's not gonna resonate, that's not 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.680 gonna that's just just me. I'm not trying to prove 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.439 your point here. But um, but you're also improving the 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.480 habitat you're by planning food plot, you're benefiting entire landscape, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.080 an entire ecosystem. You're doing something above and beyond just 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.639 the sole purpose of shooting something. Once playing food plot 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.440 you're improving the situation for three d sixty five days 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.640 a year, for so many different animals, for so many 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.800 different things. You might take one life off that, etcetera. 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.199 So that might be another argument for the fact that 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.480 they're different. Um, but if you want to say that 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.400 you're changing something to bring deer in, and if that's 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:27.960 the only thing you're looking at, then yeah, you could 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.760 say that food plots and baiting on the same You're 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:35.040 not hunting, just a natural, completely natural, unaltered pattern. What 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.480 I thought you were gonna say is that, um, it's 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.640 a little bit different because the size, well that too 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.399 well from a disease perspective, if that's another thing you 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:46.399 want to talk about, Yeah, I thought you hit me 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.800 with that. Yeah, that's it. That's a good point. So 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:51.800 an issue with baiting that a lot of people talk 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.520 about is you put something in a very small concentrated 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.360 area that attracts a lot of deer to that same 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.840 very small concentrated area, there's a higher chance of disease 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:01.760 I only c w D, which is the big thing 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.040 of course everyone's talking about. So because of that, a 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.959 lot of states of band baiting to try to reduce 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.959 the chance of that spread with a food plot. Some 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:10.280 people will say, well, it's the same thing with the 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.280 food plot. You're pulling deer into an area, But it's 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.280 just it's different. It's it's a much larger space. You're 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.720 gonna have deer congregate around natural food sources anyways, So 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.639 there's only so much you can do there. So if 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.400 it's even if it's a cord raker food plot, that's 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:30.480 still resembling a natural feeding environment versus a one yard 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.480 square section where you might have a pile of corn 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.960 where all these noses touching all the saliva. Do any 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.399 states come in? Is there any state that's band or 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.240 try to regulate food plots? No? Why? Why? What? What's 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:46.320 up around? I feel like Montana addressed that, didn't they 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.879 If you if you plant specifically to harvest animals on 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.120 it's based on intent, But I don't think you can 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.160 do that. Really could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.920 you can'ts of waterfall, Yeah, definitely, Like you couldn't grow corn, 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.520 cut corn, and shoot ducks unless you have it agricultural 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:04.679 reason to do so. Yeah, we were talking about and 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.400 then we're talking about this not long ago that like 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:12.680 you couldn't grow corn pick it, scatter it on the ground, right, 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.240 and hunt ducks. But in places you can grow corn 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.960 and leave it unpicked, but you can't knock it. And 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.400 it's like you can't knock it down. But it's possible 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.400 that you could grow it and never harvest it as 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.160 long as you don't knock it down and weird. Yeah, 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.800 it's if if it if you planted it solely to 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.320 attract animals, then I don't think it would be legal 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.040 in Montana based on but I could be wrong. So 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.560 that's I said, it's based on the agricultural reason. And 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.320 so like an agricultural reason could be I'm leaving that 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:52.159 stand of corn because corn prices have fallen, or the 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.159 moisture level, the moisture content within the ear of corn 0:22:55.680 --> 0:23:01.359 never got down to a harvestable percentage um, So there's 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:04.760 reasons for again, Yeah, well screw up, just leave its 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.840 standing first, spending a bunch of gas to go out 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:10.440 there and cut the stuff down when I will when 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:17.680 I will have no return on my investment. Now, mark, um, 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:22.240 can you define food plot real quick? I guess a 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:26.760 general definition would be some type of crop planted with 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:31.040 the specific purpose of either attracting an animal to it 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:36.919 and or supplementing nutrition. So that could be something like 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:41.160 clover or kale or rape or soybeans or corn or 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:46.280 when are we anything like that? Are you? Um? Are 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.359 you sensitive when people bring up the comparison of food 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:53.120 plots debate? No, I don't care. I mean, I under 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:57.560 I understand the argument. Um, it doesn't hold water from me, 0:23:57.640 --> 0:23:59.719 but I but even if it did, that's all right. 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:01.360 You can you can choose to see it that way. 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.879 I'll I'll do my thing, you do yours. I got 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:05.399 an our white tail, do you thing for it? I 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:11.080 got another answer? Brody sketches, sketch this deal out. Uh So, 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:17.760 last fall in Pennsylvania, a an archery hunter was he 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.080 was hunting public land, had a bunch of trail camera 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:24.399 setup was pretty familiar with do you already do you 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:32.639 already know what we're talking about? Really? Um um um? 0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:36.880 It sounds like this guy's a pretty dedicated archery hunter, 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.840 for for just from knowing you know what we've read 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.919 about it. But he's hunting public land trail cameras. He 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.280 puts an arrow in a pretty gigantic bug, especially considering 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:51.040 it was shot in Pennsylvania, which is like a heavily 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:52.920 hunted stage. Yeah, you could call it a big, huge 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:56.679 giant on public land in Pennsylvania. It's impressive and and 0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:59.439 Pennsylvania's seeing more big bucks because they went to antler 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:04.080 restriction a while back. But either way, he sticks an 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:09.080 arrow in this deer and does not find it. Um 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:13.080 it sounds like it may have been a questionable, questionable shot. 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.720 No one really knows. Either way. He doesn't find the deer, 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:22.520 and forty one days goes by and he finds eventually, 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.520 you know, he kept looking for the buck, finds the 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.040 buck forty one days later, archery season has ended. He 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:31.960 may have found it during rifle season. I think he did. 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:38.639 But he puts his tag on a desiccated carcass that 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.639 have been picked over by predator. Is the only thing 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:43.760 that's left as the spy and the skull and the 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:51.920 antlers tags, the tags the antlers, and eventually the word 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:55.480 gets out. The guy gets the buck measured. Pennsylvania Game 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:58.800 and Fish Commission confirms it as the new state record 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.000 archery kill. What do you think about that? Mark Kenyan? 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:07.600 That's cool, really, But there's new state records and states 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.600 like every year. Now it seems like I can't keep tracking. 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:11.840 That's not the question. Are you not getting the question? 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:18.560 What's the question? Archery kill? Is it a hunter killed 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:26.200 record versus a found forty one days later? There is 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:27.840 a place in the record. And I don't know. I'd 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:29.359 like to have this guy on the show. You would 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:30.600 love to get this guy on the show to talk 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.320 about this, because he's like a meteorite could have fallen 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:38.880 from the sky and that animal forty one days. But 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:41.240 then when do you set the where's the lie? I 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:45.119 don't know. I don't know. Eight hours? Eight hours? No? 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:51.239 I mean if it was up kill, like what killed it? Infection? Coyotes? Right? 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:54.080 I mean, I'm an interesting I have a similar situation 0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:56.040 that happened to me one of the best year I 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.359 ever shot. It was a poor shot, unfortunately, and then 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:03.720 I found it was shot poor shot um. But I 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:05.920 thought he's gonna die. So I searched in search and 0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:08.000 search and search and search, never found him until I 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.840 came back in February to shed hunt and there he 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:13.159 is right in his bedroom where he usually was. So 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.359 do you act like you found did you find it 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:18.359 or get it? So the way I would describe it 0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:21.439 is that I killed him but I always say I 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:25.280 found him in February. So let's say that buck was 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:29.199 a big giant record buck. Yeah, would you turn it 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:31.760 in as a record buck or would you look at 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:35.000 it on your wall and be like, damn, I made 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:39.480 a bad shot on that buck. So that I I 0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:42.600 found that I found. I found his skull and his spine, 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.520 everything there. Got a salvage teg from the DNR, brought 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:48.680 it home, and then a friend of mine had an 0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:50.879 extra cape. He said, hey, man, that this is a 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:52.720 buck that kind of like my Holy Field deal. I 0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:54.640 had hunted this buck for two or three years, knew 0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:57.320 him really well, had been chasing this thing forever um 0:27:57.359 --> 0:27:59.480 and this whole thing happened. My friends like, man, you 0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:02.320 have so ch like wrapped motion wrapped up in that deer. 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:04.679 You should mount him. I want to give you my cape. 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:06.840 So I thought about it. I was like, I don't know, 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:09.480 But in the end I decided to do it, and 0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:11.120 I put it on my wall so that every time 0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:15.040 I walked past that thing, I always think about, never 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:19.920 make that mistake again, like never, don't screw up, practice more, 0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:23.240 compose yourself. Like every little thing I can second guest 0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:24.880 or thought through that I might have been wrong, did 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:28.200 wrong on that evening. Now I rethink that's so it's 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:32.520 your it's your totem of self. Flag how's that word? Flag? Flagulation, 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:36.560 self flagellation, flagulation, So open yourself. It's a powerful it's 0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:39.640 a powerful representation of like what was a really painful 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:42.720 like moment. It was like a high when I got 0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:44.600 that shot this day I've been after and then the 0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:47.400 mistake and then uh so, let's say a dude walks 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.320 in and he's like, hey, you know what turns out 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:53.000 that'd be the that's the new state record. Would you say, well, 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:57.760 uh no, I'd say I don't know. I don't I 0:28:57.760 --> 0:28:59.800 don't know where that line is. I definitely wouldn't try 0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:01.440 to promote as a state wreck. I wouldn't have like 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.520 turned it in to try to get as a state record. Now, 0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:06.200 this happened to my old man too, and it was 0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:09.640 not I remember it was enough days where he hit 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.160 a deer out of his tree. It was a nice box, 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:15.200 especially for like that that era in Michigan. He shot 0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:23.640 a deer right below him and no exit wound. Weeks later, 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:26.160 my brother Danny's walking out the rifle hunting finds the 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:30.600 deer um and it hadn't gone far. It's like it's 0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:34.760 still it was in the went into a corn field, 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:37.240 and we must have walked over a hundred times, walked 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:39.040 around it, even to the point where it was so 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.440 baffling how we could have missed it that we entertained 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:45.240 this idea that he had left and then days later 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:46.960 came back. But then when you look at the placement 0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:50.440 of the era, that's just that's doesn't make sense. We 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:53.120 just missed him, right, And I don't know he found 0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.520 it weeks later, but he entered it. He entered it 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:57.920 in if you went and looked his like commemorative box 0:29:57.960 --> 0:29:59.800 of Michigan or whatever his name is there with that 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.360 tuck and all he did he took the head off. 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:05.840 It had to go find a cape. I remember the Winner. 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:07.640 We're out hunting rabbits. We dropped in to take a 0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:09.480 look at that buck and there's a whole board in 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.080 the side of it from creators getting in there. And 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:14.239 I looked in there and found a possum. Denned up 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.520 in there, pulled him out by his tail and took 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:17.760 up I still have a picture of me holding that 0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:21.160 possum up by his tail, so he entered that buck 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:22.680 in and not looking at it like when you're a 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:25.320 little kid, you don't know you know now looking I'm like, damn, 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.240 I don't know. Man. You're like, you didn't really get him. 0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:29.920 You found It's like a thing you found, you didn't 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.160 get him. It's a really interesting question because you, I 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.000 guess it depends on the shot, Like if you know 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.320 that that shot killed that deer, But is is getting 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:41.440 him meaning that the killing of that deer in the 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:45.080 the the recovering of it in a certain timespan, or 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:47.840 is that killing it? And I mean, and then to 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:49.840 your question, you don't know when that deer died, if 0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:52.360 it died the next day, or if it died then 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.160 and you just missed it, or if it died a 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:57.240 week later, but it was because of the wound. I 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.240 hate I hate this whole conversation because the idea of 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:02.240 wounding and deer in this being a long drawn off 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:04.840 processes is a horrible thing that's talk about. Yeah, but 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:06.320 the thing that happen, so I don't like exactly it 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:08.600 doesn't happen. It does happen, So what would do I 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.280 want to go? Okay, so picture this scenario that that 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:14.680 you're the commander of the world, and as commander of 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:18.080 the world, it comes to you that you need to say, uh, 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:24.040 we're gonna put a time limit on it. Yeah, I 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:30.200 would say seven days. Pat here, here's my thought. Can 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:33.880 you hear me? All right? Um? So I have a 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:36.200 couple of questions just to clarly, he's really going to 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.240 decide on how he's so if this rood is the 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:43.040 resident expert, right, so this particular dear, maybe I missed this, 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:47.080 But did that guy that shot that deer, like say, 0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:50.080 he shot that deer and killed that deer, right, but 0:31:50.240 --> 0:31:52.040 he doesn't. I don't know how long the season is. 0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:53.840 Maybe it's too shorter a season for this happened. But 0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:57.200 this could happen in Montana where if you if you 0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:59.600 don't recover your dear. It's not illegal to shoot another 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.240 deer and any states, but it's it's I would consider 0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:06.240 it unethical. But if that guy shot another deer in 0:32:06.320 --> 0:32:09.560 that deer's place, so he gets up in the tree stand, 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:11.320 he shoots that buck, he doesn't find it. In two days, 0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:14.960 he goes and find it, right, another buck walks by, 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:17.960 arrows that buck punches his tag and puts it on 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:21.680 that deer or now I would say that guy can 0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:23.480 claim it if he like the right thing, goes, I 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:25.840 killed that deer, he cuts his tag. He goes, I'm 0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:28.680 gonna look until I find that deer. You know what 0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:30.720 I mean. If he was like diligent and goes, I'm 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:33.200 gonna look until I find that deer, it's like, all right, 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:35.720 he made a bad shot. He reconciled that he cut 0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:37.840 he that's his deer. He punched his tag on it. 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:40.920 Now he looks for it, and it took him six 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.480 weeks to do it. That really sucks. But he put 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:46.360 in the effort. Good on him, he knew he killed it. 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.240 That's his. But if he's like the next morning, oh, 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:51.840 a little spiker walks by and he shoots it, punches 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:53.800 his tag on that, and then finds that deer later 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:59.160 exact the that's not the lad the former version happened. 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:00.760 It was the form revers. I don't know if he 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:04.120 hunted anymore. I don't know if he kept I mean, 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.000 he was out during rifle season when he tagged it. 0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:12.760 I believe, looking well, who knows. I'd love to have 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:14.760 this guy off. I mean, there's so many details he 0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:17.480 can't clear up. But he you know, in order to 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.720 register this buck for a record, he had to put 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:24.800 a tag on it, and he tagged the skull basically. 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:30.160 So yeah, he went above and beyond legal and ethical 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:36.920 obligations to find the thing. But if I was commander 0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:38.600 of the world, it would be like, you gotta find 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:42.040 that thing in order to register. You gotta find it 0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.440 in time to use the meat. That would be my 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:53.760 cut off. But I tend to agree. But again, let's 0:33:53.760 --> 0:34:00.280 say you get a hit and you're like, man, not 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.000 a great hit. I'm gonna let it go overnight. It's 0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:05.840 gonna get cool tonight. I'm gonna let it go over 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:07.480 tonight because I think that it's gonna give me a 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:09.279 better chance to find it than if I bump it. 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:14.040 And then you go out and Kyle's got so. So there, 0:34:14.040 --> 0:34:15.960 here's a guy, he's got like a whole plan, he's 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:19.080 doing everything right. He goes out beyond his control. Kyleot's 0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:21.840 got it. I would still say. I would say to 0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.759 that too, I'm like, you got it, Yeah, you got 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:28.440 the buckets your It's unfortunate that that happened. You were 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:30.799 probably aware that that was a risk. It probably rolled 0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:34.359 through your mind based on everything you had going for you, um, 0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:38.640 everything that you were dealing with, uh, your buck. Yeah, 0:34:38.840 --> 0:34:41.919 I take back my previous declaration as commander of the world. 0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:45.480 I like Brodie's better everybody. I want everyone to just 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:49.200 to just put a time stamp on it. I'm gonna 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:52.759 say as commander that I'm talking about God putting a 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.640 gun to your head and you saying, and he says, 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.000 you have to tell me a time period forty eight hours. 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:04.759 With great reluctance, I would say forty eight hours because 0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:07.520 I do think that you know with that that meat 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:11.800 aspect fits into that in most cases, barring very warm weather, 0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:16.279 that kind of stuff, various snaf foods. But so maybe 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:20.239 I'm just unfamiliar with Pennsylvania rules. Is it because it 0:35:20.280 --> 0:35:23.560 was a bow? Because hoping, I mean, Boot and Crockett. 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.360 Half the things in there. Most of the world records 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:32.440 are pick up skulls. That's explain what that explain? Record record. 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.920 Bighorn sheep was found on that island out in Flathead. 0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:39.120 Everybody knew. I mean that sheep was pretty much high 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:41.120 fence sheep. He's on this little island out in the 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.759 lake and there's a million pictures of it, and then 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.480 that sheep dies and then the state of Montana has 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:53.879 the new world record. Yeah yeah those sheep. Yeah, so 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:56.120 now and then now and then a bear of black 0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:58.600 barrel slim out there. There's a bunch of fruit trees 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:00.719 out there, and now and then a black burill swim 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.480 out there when the fruit trees are in blossom. So 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:07.800 imagine they do deal with some level of like stress. 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:09.279 But you go out there, yeah, you just can go 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.160 out there and sort of almost walk up and you know, yeah, 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.239 so hang out with them. So I guess I was 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:16.040 like when I saw that that's the new world record, 0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:18.600 I'm like, Okay, well, is the Bronx Zoo gonna beat 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.960 that record next? Could? That's but that's that's the whole thing. 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.120 Is that hunter killed or is it found? And in Pennsylvania, 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:27.680 like a lot of states and and Buona Crockett, they 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:32.160 have different categories, right, like hunter killed animals and picked 0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:36.000 up animals, even sheds, right. So I think the question 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:39.040 everyone's got about this buck is was it hunter killed 0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:42.120 or was it found? So my question, my answer to 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:44.359 that would be simple, when he walked out there, did 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:46.960 he find it? Yes, he found it? There you go, 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:49.640 he would the guy. He would say that he found 0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:52.080 it during rifles. He didn't recover it. He didn't recover 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:54.440 it during rifles. He's he found. You can't. Yeah, you 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:57.960 can't recover something months later you find I mean exactly 0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:02.080 if you were to go missing in the adrad It's uh, 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:09.920 I was recovering chopped up cars. Okay, I'm sorry, can 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:14.120 you can you can? You hand Phelps your deal? So 0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:16.440 just the argument of finding it, like we use blood, 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:20.160 we use tracks, we use broken twigs. So he didn't 0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.279 recover it, he found it. Like Remy said, there's there's 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:26.360 some key ingredients to finding a buck versus recovering a buck. 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:31.280 And I would say he definitely found it. But Jason 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:33.160 Phelps and the whole thing, you had to put an hour, 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:35.160 like you you were forced to put a time limit 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:39.200 on it or else you can get you know, killed 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:41.960 forty eight hours, but you have to look for it 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:46.560 an all daylight hours up until that point, Like there 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:48.440 needs to be some effort involved, like when we if 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:49.759 you want to make a bad shot, there needs be 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:52.680 some effort involved. So for two days, but you better 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:58.799 spend those two days looking for it. Martin Bourbon Oh man, 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.239 I'm gonna back up here, because there's a lot of 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.040 twists and turns to this thing. So as they say, 0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:08.040 it starts to make its own gravy, that's exactly so 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:11.040 when he was so when he I'm gonna say, when 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:15.319 he found this buck, was he actively searching for it 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.960 or did he stumble upon it? That's why That's why 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.520 Jason's point. Was he reading that sign, was he you know, 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.840 going over there in his head like you know, like okay, 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:31.319 I think he might have bet it he was. He 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.439 had shot the thing, he knew it was potentially dead 0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:36.400 in the area, and I think it was a continual 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:41.800 process of hoping he would eventually stumble across those antlers. 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:44.440 So he wasn't in his hunter orange during the rifle season. 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:48.200 I don't know all the details that you know, but yeah, 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:52.600 I mean he was continuing to look for it, um, 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:56.239 But it's not It's not as if forty one late 0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:59.200 days later he was thinking he was hunting that buck. 0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:02.000 I don't think. Yeah, And to your point, I mean, 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:05.440 I mean, odds are right that that buck died as 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:09.319 a direct relationship to being hit with that arrow, but 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:13.040 also could have been who knows well there's so many 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:15.200 there's so many unknowns. Like you said, there's so many unknowns, 0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:17.359 that's a lot of time. Did somebody else put an 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:19.240 arrow in that deer as it watered by his stand 0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:23.400 and he didn't find it too? You know? I mean, yeah, 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:26.040 maybe caught a little e h D in the meantime, 0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:30.360 I don't know. Yeah, it's it's it's And I'm not 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:32.000 trying to take anything away from this guy. Man. I 0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:33.600 would like, like I said, I would love that. I 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:35.440 would love to chat with him because I'm just curious 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:38.840 his perspective on it. I'm not like, I'm not like 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:41.000 dogging on the guy. What's the WEP just is a 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:44.720 really interesting situation. It's yeah, I mean, it's totally interesting topic. 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:50.279 Here's another one, motor perplexing one, and again Mark just 0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:52.880 has this. Sorry, I'm sorry, but it comes down to 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:54.839 Mark Kenyon. It's okay because white tails are the most 0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:57.880 hunted species in North America, for the attention should be 0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:01.839 on us this. I gotta tell your story. Someone someone 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:04.279 walked up to me yesterday and they said, so get this. 0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:07.640 I was at a bar. This is someone telling you that. Yes, 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.160 someone's telling me a story. So I'm speaking as the storyteller. 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:12.560 The storyteller walks up to me and says, I was 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:14.279 at this bar for a b h a pint night, 0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:17.399 and uh, he saw me wearing this public landowner shirt. 0:40:17.760 --> 0:40:20.040 The guy walks up to me, and he's confused, who 0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:23.399 are you being right now? I'm the storyteller. You're you? 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:27.800 No, No No, okay, I'll be you. I'm telling a story 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:29.440 of a guy telling me a story of a story. 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:32.959 So it's confusing, but you you're me, okay. I am 0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:35.479 the person that I just talked to you yesterday. Hey, Mark, 0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.400 go ahead. I was at a point. I was at 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.840 a pint night in the up and this guy walked 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:44.880 up to me and he was he saw me wearing 0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:48.400 my public landowner shirt and he says to me, hey, uh, 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:51.160 you're wearing that public landowner shirt. It'd be really cool 0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:52.919 if you could get Mark Kenyan to come up here 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:55.520 and talk about that kind of stuff, or if you 0:40:55.520 --> 0:40:58.920 can't get him, maybe Steve Rinella Man. All right, they 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:02.080 got the ranking right. Yeah. It wasn't like when Remy 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:04.799 got to be the boss gobbler. I was like, that's 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:07.879 the first time that's ever been said. Okay, so all right, 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:10.040 this is this is out of your comfort zone. But 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:15.520 it's just something I heard from Brody that you just said. Yeah, Brodie, 0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:18.839 he lay the groundwork again. Brodie, we're talking about last 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:25.960 night we talked about this is the most baffling. Okay, 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:28.600 the other night, Brodie sends me an article and it's 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:31.120 a guy I don't want to talk about who he is. 0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:36.759 It's a guy griping about all right, it's so complicated. 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:44.400 You can order because he's griping about um social media people. Okay, 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:49.200 gear ambassador, gear ambassadors, how they ruin everything and they 0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:52.000 like to take pictures of big, huge, giant trout. And 0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:55.040 he knows the truth that they catch these big trout 0:41:55.080 --> 0:42:01.200 when they're spawning. And Brodie, who's a guy catch released 0:42:01.200 --> 0:42:05.680 trout fisherman, sends it to me annoyed about the perspective 0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:08.080 on it. And Brody brings up to me, like, why 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.120 is it that the whole world everything they fish. Everyone's 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.640 always fishing the spawn. People travel great distances. This fish 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:17.720 steelhead when they're in the river spawning. You fish salmon 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:20.960 in the river spawning. People plan trips to fish bluegill 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:24.160 off the beds. You throw a jig into a bass bed. 0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:28.960 Everyone fishes spawning fish, but all of a sudden, like 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:33.360 trout piarists have gone and said that this whole huge 0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:36.760 history of people targeting fish when they congregate to spawn 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:41.720 is unethical if it's a brown trout. And you agree 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:47.279 with that, Oh no, I didn't. I thought that it 0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:49.319 was an unethical practice, you know the way I was 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:51.840 saying supposedly, because I don't know. I'm just I just 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.920 I'm learning this. So I just taught myself to fly 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:55.759 fish over the last few years. I've never really been 0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:58.560 a big trout fisherm until just recently. I was telling 0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:00.919 the crowd about this article I and so I was saying, 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:04.000 they were saying, this is supposed and I was looking 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:09.279 at you, like, right, I don't know. Yeah, I got 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:13.040 the impression that came out to me. I was like, 0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:14.680 I was like, is that the case? I have? No, 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:16.840 I have no clue, So reading that like I would, 0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:20.440 I'm just fishing. I don't know, I don't get it. 0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:27.960 Call him, please go ahead. Everybody's right and everybody's wrong. Okay, 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.640 uh yeah, And we have certainly built up this hierarchy 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:36.960 of species that's nothing new. But there comes a point 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:40.719 where okay, So there's this river around here, it's called 0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:45.440 the Lost tail Water Fishery below you know, below the dam, 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:49.480 and there comes a point where you cannot hardly walk 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.560 in that river, wade in that river without standing in 0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:58.200 a red in a spawning bed. At the same time, 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.719 the you know, the water is eighteen inches deep and 0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:07.040 you can see every single fish. I do not find 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:10.160 it ethical to then go fish for those fish because 0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:14.920 you can you can drag him foul hook, he can 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:16.600 hook him in the back and drag him off that 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:19.920 bed or flawesome. Yeah, and then they'll turn around and 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:21.440 go right back to that bed and sit on it. 0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:25.680 So what's the problem. The problem is, it's I mean, 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:29.160 it does not fishing. Okay, So when when a little kid, 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.719 if there's a down not catching. When the look kid 0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:34.759 goes down to his mom's dock and there's a dozen 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:39.319 bluegill beds in knee eat water, and not only will 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:43.560 they feed, but they'll aggressively guard their nest, and he 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:47.480 lobs a worm into that collection of bluegill beds? Is 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:51.000 he is he being unethical? Let me come on, so 0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:53.759 I have a question. Yeah, I mean, and this is 0:44:53.840 --> 0:44:57.120 the nature of this discussion, right, it's like, first of all, 0:44:57.360 --> 0:45:02.200 the stuff that you Flatlanders do, I mean, who really cares? Right, right? 0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:04.600 So like the crappie of the bluegill, the bass. For 0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:07.120 some reason, we have us as a rocky Mountain West 0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:10.600 society have decided that that stuff just doesn't matter as 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:13.920 much as our trout do. Um, and maybe that has 0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:16.799 something to do with like recovering populations. But you can 0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:20.640 talking about non native like rainbows and browns, like, first 0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:24.399 of all, they're not disappearing anytime soon, and they don't 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:29.200 technically belong in any of these synthetics. The synthetics purely 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:33.000 synthetic fish. Uh yeah, but so look at the freaking 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:36.400 pike minnow right. The squaw fish, those I will not 0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:43.040 mess with on the bed, completely native fish. There's a 0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:47.560 bounty on their heads below the Baudeville Damnado. They're endangered. 0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.239 You can't like like you know, so it's all I 0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:55.480 did not know that. Yeah, they're in Colorado. People got 0:45:55.560 --> 0:45:58.040 chucking them on the bank wrote this article that gout 0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:01.440 that we kind of all apparently read or got forwarded around. 0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:07.080 Was referring to Brown's. Yes, that was import This is 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:10.879 where it makes more gravy like Steve says, well, how 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:13.759 it read to me was as much as much as 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:16.080 this guy was concerned with the ethics of ripped and 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:20.319 spawners off of a bed, he was more concerned with 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:24.319 dudes from out of state coming in and screwing up 0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:28.879 the fishery that he guides on. So it was like, well, 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:31.560 I could have been out on that spawning bed making money, right. 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:34.760 You know. The other the thing that I took away 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:38.000 from it though, was just the fact I thought the 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:42.719 point he was making was how people are putting ethics 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:45.759 or their crossing lines to try to get famous, Like 0:46:45.800 --> 0:46:48.359 Instagram frightness. He was talking about how more and more 0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:51.040 people are doing these huge photo shoots with every big 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.200 fish because they want that huge photo and they want 0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:54.640 to be on the cover of whatever they want to 0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:57.359 free pair of sunglasses or something. So you see people 0:46:57.360 --> 0:46:59.359 staying around for two minutes holding the fish out of water, 0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:01.919 or you see people in this case, he said that 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:04.359 they were going down a closed Stretcher river. They knew 0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:06.040 it was closed, but they still went down and they 0:47:06.040 --> 0:47:08.040 had to pass signs that said I was closed. I 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:10.759 don't remember why I was closed or anything. That's a 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:13.520 different story that's called poaching, so that he was making 0:47:13.560 --> 0:47:16.440 that argument. I thought that people were doing things like 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:20.360 that to get famous. The one particular fishing question was caught. 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:23.480 I mean, this guy did all kinds of illegal stuff, 0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:28.200 but there's like a greater picture of this, generally fishing 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:33.600 for spawning trout being like something you should go to health. See. 0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:35.280 I thought that he was using that as the story 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.040 to illustrate the larger Yeah, well it's okay, one of 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:40.759 the most masterful writer in the world. So I feel 0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:43.640 that he he's got a few axes to grind. He's 0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:46.560 kind of in a grumpy mood. He doesn't like maybe 0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:49.560 he's the I'm sure there's he's gonna hate this. It's 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:53.680 probably like a fair bit of jealousy involved a little bitterness, Okay, 0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:56.319 And you put all these ingredients together and you get 0:47:56.400 --> 0:48:00.239 kind of a rant. And just as he's taking talking 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:04.839 about the influence of social media on fishing in an 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:07.840 example of that would be that that you would be 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:11.480 so audacious as to catch a spawning trout to up 0:48:11.520 --> 0:48:15.319 your social media presence. Okay, as much as he's taking 0:48:15.320 --> 0:48:17.839 that little iceolate example to prove a larger point, I'm 0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:20.319 doing the same thing. He did when I'm plucking out. 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:23.880 One portion of this is to say, like to declare 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:30.880 that you targeting a particular species of imported European fish 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:36.600 um during its spawn as being unethical. How how does 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:38.600 that relate to all of the fish that we all 0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:40.719 sort of agree you do fish during the spawn and 0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:43.719 has the gentleman that wrote that article, I'm presumably if 0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:46.800 he's a fishing guide in whelming, he's a pretty seasoned angler. 0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:52.439 Presumably he's been up to Alaska or BC and fish 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:55.920 to king in the river. There's there to lay his 0:48:55.960 --> 0:49:00.520 eggs her eggs. Yes, the difference is, let's say you 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:06.920 have this catch and release fishery cat you then the 0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:10.080 fish come up and spawn, they're on their beds, they 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.799 get through the spawning process, but then they're guarding their 0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:17.440 beds um and they're not eating, but they're doing that 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:21.399 aggressive behavior of knocking other fish off the beds or 0:49:21.800 --> 0:49:24.520 and um. You know, and you're fishing eggs. Sometimes they're 0:49:24.560 --> 0:49:30.080 trying to knock eggs off their bed other other fish's 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:34.160 eggs off their beds and um. There is a time 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:37.720 of year where there's eight of us in this room. 0:49:37.800 --> 0:49:40.759 We could walk up that river and all eight of 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:47.080 us could catch that exact same fish somehow, some way, 0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:49.480 because it's gonna go back to that bed and it's 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:51.360 gonna sit on that bed and it's gonna do his job. 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:55.680 And you know, we could stress it out to the 0:49:55.719 --> 0:50:00.200 point very easily where it's gonna die. So why would 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:04.120 that be allowed in this catching release fishery where the 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:06.759 point is to try to release them and let them 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.000 get caught again. But if you're out there fishing, presumably 0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:13.680 not for those spawners. It's legal to be out there fishing, 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:18.600 and you're out fishing, not targeting those particular spawners, and 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:21.640 you're pointing at the dude who is But you're out 0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:25.120 there fishing and you're catching pre spawned fish and you 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:28.520 scoop up a female that hasn't spawned yet and she 0:50:28.640 --> 0:50:31.879 spews a bunch of eggs out in the net. Who, Like, 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.000 where do you draw the line? Like, if you don't 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:38.560 think you should be fishing for spawning fish, then advocate 0:50:38.640 --> 0:50:41.759 for closing it all together, right, Like, nobody should be 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:44.560 out there in that case. It doesn't matter if you 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:46.919 catch them ten days before they spawn or when they're 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:49.560 on their bed. I don't I don't think that's wrong. Yeah, 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:54.799 I mean I think you are. You're correct? Um, yeah, 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:57.000 why we do not do that? I do not know you. 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.360 I don't know how. We used to target the spring bullheads. 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:04.960 You know, bullheads like to spawn like spawning cavities, so 0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:08.839 busted up sea walls hollow logs, and then they didn't 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:11.319 get inside and they turn around so their heads looking 0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:15.200 out to defend the nest. We wouldn't even use a rod. 0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:19.359 You just go around and dingle, wrap some line around 0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:23.799 your hand and dingle a little cleo against his face 0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:26.520 and have him grab it. To the point we sometimes 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:29.279 dive down snorkeling mass dive down and in dingle it 0:51:29.280 --> 0:51:33.759 in front of me. So that's like right now I'm 0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:37.200 looking at being like, man, that was so unethical, But 0:51:37.200 --> 0:51:39.920 I just don't just not feeling it. Yeah, I'm not 0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:41.640 feeling the guilt. I think if you're gonna try to 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:46.920 eat the thing, fine, but if not, like I feel 0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:49.919 like there's should It goes back to like that there's 0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:54.879 a reasonable act, reasonable chance of failure when you eliminate 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:59.400 all those chances of failure by being like, okay, big fish, 0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:02.359 ten inches of water, I can throw a rock in there. 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:04.680 It's gonna run away, but it's gonna come right back 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:09.440 to that the exact same spot. I can catch this fish, 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:15.000 Like one point, is it still fish? But maybe for 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:17.040 the guy who only gets to fish a few days 0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.360 a year and he's got to get a lot of 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:25.200 social media, like you gotta make it happen here. I 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:27.920 gotta jump in here because I grew up like cal 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:32.319 did fishing pitching pitchfork and spawn and browns, I mean, 0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:37.280 trout fishing. You know, bass fishing wasn't a thing. And 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:41.719 maybe it's just regional because you just if I was 0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:44.799 in a lake, right and there's a stream coming into 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:47.640 that lake, you'll see a hundred fishermen away from that. 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:49.879 No one will be going and fishing those those fish 0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:53.279 off their beds. It's like it's like, why don't you 0:52:53.280 --> 0:52:55.279 just go So if a fish swims up stream, whyn't 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:57.880 you just go pick it up and then like go 0:52:58.000 --> 0:53:01.799 take a picture with it? Like is that fishing? Yeah? 0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:05.200 I mean it's it's too easy. It takes out. You 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:07.759 might as well just go like buy your fish or 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:09.879 go like put them in a swimming pool, because those 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:12.759 trout aren't Like I don't know, but when I first 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:15.719 started bass fishing, I would never cast at a fish 0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:18.880 that was on its bed. Ever, I didn't know that. 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:20.719 I was like, oh, you just don't do that. We'd 0:53:20.719 --> 0:53:25.440 go get leeches and lay them on the beds. Yeah, 0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:27.759 I mean now I do that because I understand that 0:53:27.760 --> 0:53:30.000 that's how you fish bass. But I'm like, bass fishermen 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:34.719 must just like have they just don't care enough for 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:39.800 whatever it's different. They're so sturdy. Yeah, you like, trout 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:43.719 are very fragile. It's like my parents or I grew 0:53:43.800 --> 0:53:46.480 up this small kind of man made private lake and 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:49.960 we stopped and you could just see that trout die fast. 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:53.239 It's very hard for trout to exist. And especially when 0:53:53.280 --> 0:53:58.160 you're talking in Montana, you're talking cutthroats or native fish. 0:53:58.320 --> 0:53:59.839 If you see that fish on the bed, you need 0:53:59.840 --> 0:54:02.320 those fish to have their a fighting chance. Now, fishing 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.600 other places like pre spawn, most of the fish that 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:07.840 are on the bed, they're waiting for those eggs that 0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:10.600 are laid a lot of those eggs have been fertilized, 0:54:11.560 --> 0:54:17.360 so though they already have that fertilization, they're already ready 0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:20.359 to hatch. There that further step from the fish that's 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.800 just out in a deep swimming around. They constantly produce eggs. 0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:26.920 So for the fish that gets in the net, spews 0:54:26.960 --> 0:54:28.439 its eggs and you let it back go, she's gonna 0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:33.200 have just so many eggs tomorrow. Yeah, that's my with 0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:35.560 have you have you guys have red shadows on the 0:54:35.600 --> 0:54:39.719 koy cock by the anthropologist Richard Kane Nelson. No, but 0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:42.360 I will say, salmon, they're going to die, so you 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:43.839 can just scoop them out of the river. I don't 0:54:43.840 --> 0:54:46.279 care that. That's another part of this. It's another part 0:54:46.280 --> 0:54:48.040 of this. I'm gonna throw it. I feel like I've 0:54:48.040 --> 0:54:52.200 been living in a gray area with a million different caveats. Yeah, 0:54:52.280 --> 0:54:53.879 I love to fish for trout. I'm gonna throw. I'm 0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:55.919 gonna throw another twist in there that we're talking about 0:54:56.040 --> 0:54:59.840 last night. So where we live in Wisconsin, we have 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:03.680 the ribs that dumping in Lake Michigan, which to my knowledge, 0:55:04.120 --> 0:55:07.160 by and large, the steel head that returned to those 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:14.440 rivers do not successfully spawn. And yet from an ethic standpoint, 0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:17.840 many people say, I won't fish those I won't fish 0:55:17.880 --> 0:55:20.880 to those fish that are on their reds, even though 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:24.440 it's an artificially supported fishery. Artificially supported fishery and those 0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:26.840 fish aren't gonna successfully spawn. You've got those kind of 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:30.359 artificial fisheries all over the Great Lakes where it's like, yeah, man, 0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:33.759 we're pound these salmon and steelhead while they spawn, and 0:55:33.800 --> 0:55:36.120 then the state stocks a little six inch molts and 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.400 it starts all over again. You know, So what do 0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:40.279 you think of that? I mean, I just think it's interest. 0:55:40.320 --> 0:55:42.280 I think it's interesting. I mean I'm not really seeing 0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:46.120 a from a from a resource standpoint, like yeah, I mean, 0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:48.000 I guess you could harassed that fish enough for two 0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.720 Remy's point. You know, if you caught it and stressed 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:52.760 it out to a point that it maybe it wouldn't 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:54.759 return to the lake, then you're you know, you're down 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:58.000 the fish, right. But I mean there's like, you know, 0:55:58.120 --> 0:56:01.080 oftentimes they'll be you know, three or four six fish 0:56:01.360 --> 0:56:04.439 waiting in the bucket right behind those spawners that guys 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:06.759 are fishing too, and you know, ten minutes later that 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:08.640 fish could be pushing up on a red you know, 0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:10.719 right near in that same spot. So I just I 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:12.600 don't know, I just feel like it's a super gray area. 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:16.640 And then to your point, like so all of a sudden, 0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:19.040 you're a kid, well of course I'll let a kid 0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:21.520 do that. Well, I mean, just like every little thing 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:25.120 changes it, you know, I've seen it, like it gets 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:28.440 so bad in some places. We would go up and 0:56:28.480 --> 0:56:31.800 fish the North Platte River in April when the rainbows 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:36.799 are spawning hard, and uh that the local guides there 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.120 would like if they saw you fishing two spawners, they're 0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:43.160 just like scream at you. But then those same guys 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:47.040 there'd be like a hundred yards stretch of beds, and 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:50.000 those same guys will float over top of those fish 0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:52.880 in their drift boat to knock them down into the 0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:54.800 next hole, and then they'll get out and fish for 0:56:57.120 --> 0:57:01.839 Why here, here's a kind of here's why I um. 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:04.560 I want to get back to Richard Knelson real quick 0:57:04.560 --> 0:57:06.200 in a minute, but here's why I brood over the 0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:15.640 subject because, um, the foundations. Okay, the foundation of fishing 0:57:15.719 --> 0:57:20.400 is it was a food acquisition activity, right, everyone accepts that, right. 0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:24.080 So it's like it comes out of a it comes 0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:28.480 out of an interplay of life and death. And to 0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:33.520 watch a segment, to watch a segment of fishing becomes 0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:43.640 so civilized and so sort of mechanical, where you're um 0:57:43.880 --> 0:57:50.360 fetishizing introduced non natives. You're establishing this whole other structure 0:57:50.560 --> 0:57:54.560 of it's like wrong to utilize these resources in a 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:58.520 certain way. It's it's no longer like the goal of 0:57:59.120 --> 0:58:01.400 like with hunting and fishing, the goals used to be 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.800 that you would study an animal, you would study it 0:58:05.000 --> 0:58:09.520 and find its vulnerabilities and exploit those vulnerabilities to some extent. 0:58:10.040 --> 0:58:13.880 And timing issues, like people like to hunt bucks during 0:58:13.920 --> 0:58:17.520 the rut because they don't act like they do normally. 0:58:17.640 --> 0:58:21.240 They lose some of their inhibitions, they travel more during 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:24.240 the daytime, they're more vulnerable, and that's like a whole 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:27.680 culture is built around exploiting this vulnerability. But all of 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:30.320 a sudden, to all of stodd get to the spot 0:58:30.360 --> 0:58:34.320 where where like the segment of the fishing world becomes 0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:37.680 so divorced from the foundational reality of what it is 0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:41.280 that it that it sets up this whole other bizarre structure. 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:45.160 I don't think it's wrong. I just look at it 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:49.160 and I brood over it. It's puzzling to me. Uh. 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:51.800 In Shadows on the Coya Kard, which is about the 0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:56.040 coy Kon people, um Richard K. Nelson spent some time 0:58:56.080 --> 0:58:59.560 with them, and they like to their den dig forbears. 0:59:00.920 --> 0:59:03.160 So their bear hunting method is you kind of get 0:59:03.160 --> 0:59:06.480 a sense it's handed down generation generation, all the bear 0:59:06.560 --> 0:59:09.200 denning locations, and knowing that a den doesn't usually get 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:12.000 used twice in a row, you kind of like keep 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:13.800 a track of what den might have a bear and 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:16.120 you go around the late spring and that's how you hunt. 0:59:17.560 --> 0:59:21.200 You dig bears out. It's unethical to just shoot a 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:24.000 bear walking around. Any person can do that. It takes 0:59:24.000 --> 0:59:27.919 a special man to go in and drag a bear 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.480 up out of its den and kill it right an 0:59:31.840 --> 0:59:36.160 So if you went ask most people, if you if 0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:37.880 I went out to my buddies that I hunt with, 0:59:37.960 --> 0:59:40.200 I was like, oh yeah, what I do you know, 0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:43.520 I go down, I just kill him right in the den. Right, 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:49.600 You'd be skewered as the epitome of unethical behavior. So 0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:53.640 it is, it's just like in certain cases it's so 0:59:53.880 --> 1:00:01.240 arbitrary and there's so much baggage at play, absolutely, and 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:05.640 I'm just thinking here, like how hypocritical I am? Right 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:08.920 because I will not fish to that fish that I 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:12.560 can see that I know is not going to move, 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:17.400 because like I'm just like, well, it's a foregone conclusion. 1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:22.040 But when the water is all murky and muddy, and 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:24.400 I've been telling you for years how much I've been 1:00:25.080 --> 1:00:28.720 enjoying fishing for these smallmouth bass. Well, the reason they're 1:00:28.720 --> 1:00:32.200 so susceptible to flies a flyer rod is because they've 1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:35.920 moved up into their spawning area. But the difference is is, 1:00:36.600 --> 1:00:39.000 you know, I'm fishing in eight feet water that's murky, 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:42.360 and I can't see them, and so for some reason, 1:00:42.360 --> 1:00:46.320 that's the mental difference for me is the you know, 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:50.680 my percentage of being successful is in this you know, 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:56.760 reasonable area for me of you know, it's still a 1:00:56.800 --> 1:01:01.160 game of chance and still feels sporting. Everyone has that though. 1:01:01.200 --> 1:01:03.600 I mean, Steve, if you like could have anything in 1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:06.120 your tackle box, would dynamite be your number one choice? 1:01:06.400 --> 1:01:08.080 And you'd be like, every time I go fishing, I 1:01:08.160 --> 1:01:09.720 just throw a stick of jelly in there and blow 1:01:09.760 --> 1:01:13.240 them out of the water. You wouldn't do that, you know. 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:15.960 It's because it's guaranteed. It's like fishing for a trout 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:20.240 on its bed is so guaranteed that it's not even sporting. 1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:22.280 It's like your sportsman because you do it in a 1:01:22.320 --> 1:01:25.280 certain way, whether it's legal or not. You've got. Everybody 1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:27.760 has their own code of ethics, and it's like, Okay, 1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:30.680 what might be acceptable to one person isn't acceptable to another. 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:33.520 But also what what's the intent behind it? If your 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:36.320 intent was I just want to picture a big fish 1:01:36.440 --> 1:01:38.760 like dynamite, throw it in there, pull your big fish up, 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:43.720 take a picture. You're like, ah, whatever, man, I see 1:01:43.720 --> 1:01:45.600 what you're saying. To kill that fish. But oh we 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:48.800 swam away. He's just in shock. He'll be all right. 1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:51.320 If I thought the question was that easy, I wouldn't 1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:53.800 have brought it up. Yeah, it's it's one of the 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:56.000 I don't even really know how I feel about it. 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.000 That's a good point. It's a perfect topic for this 1:01:59.040 --> 1:02:01.000 time of here. I mean, I really gotta call on 1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:03.720 I think on Monday from a guy buddy of mine 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:06.320 in Montana. He's like, yeah, man, when you're coming up 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:10.960 land a giant, we're gonna go out there. He's like, 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:13.160 I feel kind of bad fishing them on their heads, 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:16.920 but everybody else is really Yeah, there's the conversation you 1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.080 just had just had. Yeah, I mean it's that time 1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:22.000 of here. When I live in the Great Lakes, we'd 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:26.040 fish steel heads starting Thanksgiving. Sometimes depending on the water levels, 1:02:26.160 --> 1:02:28.160 because so a lot of times you still had to 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:30.200 shoot up the rivers when the when the rain the 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.920 fall rains came and still had to push up. But 1:02:33.040 --> 1:02:37.200 the whole time, the whole time, it was all just prelude. 1:02:38.360 --> 1:02:42.160 It was all prelude to the spawn mm hmm. And 1:02:42.280 --> 1:02:47.439 sitting down there at dawn and it starts to get 1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:50.600 light enough, you can start to see the reds, the cleaning, 1:02:50.720 --> 1:02:52.600 you know, the spawning beds. You can start to see 1:02:52.640 --> 1:02:56.080 that golden clean area, and all of a sudden, that 1:02:56.200 --> 1:03:03.480 gray shadow pulls across that. The feeling of like, dude, yes, yes, yes, yes, 1:03:03.840 --> 1:03:09.040 it is odd, right, the feeling you'd get no one's there, 1:03:09.400 --> 1:03:11.560 you got the spot and you see that, just that 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:14.439 little shadow come out on there and move away. Oh 1:03:14.480 --> 1:03:17.000 my god, to have someone come and tell me that 1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:24.840 I was wrong. I'm not open to it. Uh Okay, 1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:30.560 moving on real quick, Um, everybody's cool on that. Uh 1:03:30.600 --> 1:03:34.440 Mark again, Mark Kenyon, quick thing. I'm glad to have 1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:38.880 you here. Your famous deer, your famous Holy Field deer 1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:43.280 isn't dead. He's not dead. Okay, So if you listen 1:03:43.280 --> 1:03:46.080 to wire to hunt, um, you'll if you go back 1:03:46.120 --> 1:03:47.800 in the back lock. You hear the marks got this 1:03:47.840 --> 1:03:51.560 whole story of Jason's deer around the same deer he sees. 1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:57.920 He's like basically roommates with him, and but the mysterious 1:03:57.960 --> 1:04:01.880 deer and and and he's had opportunities in the past 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:04.360 to get him and didn't get him. Then he thought 1:04:04.360 --> 1:04:07.880 he was dead. And then what you just found his 1:04:07.960 --> 1:04:10.919 shed and he's not dead. Yeah. Well, yeah, last time 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:12.760 I was doing a podcast with you guys, I was 1:04:12.760 --> 1:04:16.240 talking about how had my missed opportunity at him and everything, 1:04:16.280 --> 1:04:17.920 And then like a month later, I think I was 1:04:17.960 --> 1:04:20.920 talking to you about Yeah, I heard from a friend 1:04:20.920 --> 1:04:23.080 of a friend that the neighbor shot a big one. 1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.200 This was the only like quote unquote big buck that 1:04:26.280 --> 1:04:28.120 I'd seen in the area for like three years, so 1:04:28.160 --> 1:04:30.440 it had to be that dear. So I thought, oh, yeah, 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:33.120 he's dead. He disappeared off trail camera. I didn't see 1:04:33.200 --> 1:04:35.760 him in times a year. You just see him after that. 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:39.640 So yeah, I kind of moved on and then randomly 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:42.919 mourned his loss. I don't know have more his loss, 1:04:42.960 --> 1:04:44.760 but I came to terms of the fact that this 1:04:45.600 --> 1:04:50.360 part of my of my life was done. And and yeah, 1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:52.560 like late February, I think it was. I just was like, 1:04:53.000 --> 1:04:55.280 I need to go get some fresh air, take the 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:56.400 dog for a walk. So I went out to this 1:04:56.440 --> 1:04:58.800 property just thought. I walked just kind of the outside 1:04:58.840 --> 1:05:01.760 little edge is just a nice little spot and snow 1:05:01.760 --> 1:05:03.960 on the ground. Wasn't looking for shed antlers or anything, 1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:06.959 and just stumbled onto some that was a nice little 1:05:06.960 --> 1:05:08.960 stand up pines, and I just saw these this crown 1:05:09.000 --> 1:05:11.560 of time sticking out of the snow. Pull it up 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:15.600 and lo and behold, he's still around. Never was a 1:05:15.600 --> 1:05:17.720 little bit. It was exciting, it's awesome. It was a 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:20.920 little bit and uh it was a little bit bitter 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:24.320 sweet because a tiny bit of me was relieved when 1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:26.240 i'd like come to terms with him being gone, because 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:28.480 all right, I can move on like I wanted. I'm 1:05:28.480 --> 1:05:30.360 gonna go hunt some different places. I'm gona do some 1:05:30.400 --> 1:05:32.960 different stuff, and I find like, oh ship, I'm back 1:05:33.000 --> 1:05:35.600 to this again. So now your whole next year's all 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:37.520 playing out. You gotta try to find this book. Well, 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:39.680 you know what I'm telling myself now is that I'm 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:42.680 not gonna do what I did last year. I'm not 1:05:42.760 --> 1:05:44.680 going to like change all my I'm not gonna put 1:05:44.680 --> 1:05:46.560 all my eggs in that basket. I would love to 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:50.080 finish this four year journey. Now. I love to kill 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.360 this deer um, but I'm not gonna let it like 1:05:53.960 --> 1:05:56.040 consume my life. It's not gonna be the end all 1:05:56.080 --> 1:05:58.240 be all. I'm gonna do a lot of different things. Yeah, 1:05:58.240 --> 1:06:00.040 I'm gonna hut smart. Yeah, I'm still gonna try to 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:03.960 target that deer and see what happens. But like you 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:07.080 said some number months ago, maybe the way it's supposed 1:06:07.080 --> 1:06:09.600 to end is that I never do. And the story 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.000 and he rides off from the sunset. It was a movie. 1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:15.000 It fills a movie, and you shot at people be 1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:16.840 bummed at the end of the movie. People, I told 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:18.600 you it should be like the movie The Golden Seal. 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:21.560 Did I tell you this. We're in the end. Then 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:23.800 he got mad a chance and he comes out. You 1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:26.960 guys lock eyes, and you can't do it. You just 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:29.920 drop your gun or drop your bow and start to weep. 1:06:31.280 --> 1:06:33.720 And the buck and it starts foggy and it's snowing 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:36.440 in the buck like looks at you and you guys, 1:06:36.920 --> 1:06:40.160 and he walks off. That's a movie. But in the end, 1:06:40.160 --> 1:06:42.680 the buck walks up and you kill him. Dude. No, 1:06:42.720 --> 1:06:46.240 it's gonna like that movie. People like conclusions, they like 1:06:46.360 --> 1:06:48.880 things tied up in a nice bow. It needs to 1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:52.240 be like the end of The Deer Hunter. Yeah yeah, 1:06:52.240 --> 1:06:54.040 And then you got mad because I hadn't seen it. 1:06:54.520 --> 1:06:56.160 Have you seen you? You haven't seen the Deer h 1:06:56.360 --> 1:06:59.080 haven't seen the Deer but I saw pop up somewhere 1:06:59.160 --> 1:07:00.760 like I should watch that. You haven't seen the Deer Hunt? 1:07:00.800 --> 1:07:06.320 In my bad on that one? Please anyone right here? Yeah, Lestern, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah, 1:07:06.400 --> 1:07:10.880 you've seen it. They're hunting it's red stags. Yeah, there's 1:07:10.920 --> 1:07:14.160 so much about that movie. It's a it's a war movie, right, 1:07:14.280 --> 1:07:16.560 it's about get the right one. So it's it's it's 1:07:16.560 --> 1:07:19.400 some guys from Pennsylvania, colk and in that Steel country, 1:07:19.440 --> 1:07:22.560 the Highlands, Scottish stags across in the in the mid 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:24.400 It's a real problem in movies when you get to 1:07:24.440 --> 1:07:26.600 know them too much about wild life, movies really start 1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:30.280 to let you down. The worst movie is The Reverend 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:34.439 Velvet Bulls running across the River and wanted burn. Dude. 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:38.480 It was like that, uh, The Deer Hunter where it 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:41.240 winds up it's like we're in Pennsylvania Steel Country. But 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:44.440 all of a sudden, it's a Stag's terrible even at night. 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:48.400 They show up in the morning. Last Mohicans, it's a 1:07:48.760 --> 1:07:52.080 red deer. Yeah, they just get you every time. Man. 1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:56.640 I thought about just offering my services to movies. Yeah, 1:07:56.840 --> 1:07:59.160 just be a consultant anything that has to do with hunting. 1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:02.080 It would be a great jobs, you know, just just 1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:03.800 for I'll do it for free, just from my own 1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:07.560 viewing bremy. I'll tell you right now that I have 1:08:07.680 --> 1:08:11.080 done some of that, and they do not care. Don't listen, 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:14.840 they do not care. Early on in my TV career, 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:18.920 they're like, yeah, I get it, but we're not making reality. 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:22.200 We're not marking in this Two Hunters. Early on in 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:24.120 my TV career, I was trying to explain to a 1:08:24.160 --> 1:08:26.320 producer about the whole problem of not knowing what's going 1:08:26.360 --> 1:08:29.760 to happen next, and at one point he grew frustrated 1:08:29.840 --> 1:08:32.160 and he said, well, that's what animal wranglers are for. 1:08:35.120 --> 1:08:38.559 So I'm gonna throw up my defense for not seeing 1:08:38.600 --> 1:08:41.040 that movie though, because I do recall now thinking about 1:08:41.080 --> 1:08:43.519 it back in the day when video stores were like 1:08:43.520 --> 1:08:45.840 a big thing, you know, and going to get a 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:51.280 video with your curtain in the back corner. That's a 1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:55.360 different story, begging like I passed that one and be 1:08:55.400 --> 1:08:57.000 on the shelf, and then like, that's the one I 1:08:57.040 --> 1:08:59.200 want to see The Deer Hunter. I know I'm gonna 1:08:59.200 --> 1:09:01.439 love that movie, just you know, going off the time. 1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:03.760 And then my parents would be like, I don't think 1:09:03.760 --> 1:09:05.400 that's a movie for you, and and and then I 1:09:05.439 --> 1:09:07.280 just I never I never caught back up with it. 1:09:07.400 --> 1:09:12.120 I never I never revealed that that secret. But yeah, 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:14.920 it's stunning. I mean, it's what it's a masterpiece. And 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:17.320 then check it out. Guys, guys from the you know, 1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:20.920 it's guys from Pennsylvania. Um. They go off to fight 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:24.920 in Vietnam. It's Christopher Walking, Robert de Niro. One of 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:28.080 them goes into the Green Bray's. They meet up in 1:09:28.120 --> 1:09:32.719 a then the whole Russian Roulette. It's just like it's horrible. 1:09:33.200 --> 1:09:37.080 It is horrible, but there's some there's a reckoning, like 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:39.680 what Mark will eventually have with holy Field. There's a 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:42.680 reckoning in the end where the deer Hunter finds his 1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:50.120 deer and cannot do it. Oh unrelated note, Mark, what's uh, 1:09:50.240 --> 1:09:53.599 what's wrong with you? Guys? Like at vortex. I got 1:09:53.600 --> 1:09:56.080 a whole big, brand new building. Yeah yeah, I mean 1:09:56.120 --> 1:09:58.160 that's that's the biggest sale. I mean, that's been definitely 1:09:58.400 --> 1:10:01.639 a long, a long process us and yeah, kudos everybody 1:10:01.680 --> 1:10:03.960 that that worked on that project. So yeah, we recently 1:10:05.080 --> 1:10:09.600 got moved in, got settled. So now it's not Middleton, Wisconsin, 1:10:09.760 --> 1:10:13.679 not Middleton, YEP. So we're we're we're close, fairly close, 1:10:13.840 --> 1:10:17.000 I mean not too far away. Um in an adjacent 1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:20.080 community called Barneveld, and it's that's a really cool town. 1:10:20.240 --> 1:10:22.479 Smaller town, a little bit, a little bit more rural, 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:26.519 so not as many sandwich options, not as many sandwichs options. 1:10:26.560 --> 1:10:28.800 But it's good man, I think I think it's actually 1:10:28.840 --> 1:10:31.040 it's but it's forcing me to eat healthier because you know, 1:10:31.080 --> 1:10:32.880 you bring a good lunch every day. So so when 1:10:32.920 --> 1:10:35.920 we're hanging out there though, and we went to where 1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:40.960 you guys were manufacturing the what's the line of sculpes 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:43.320 you manufacture that you were manufacturing that when we went 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:45.759 to look so right now it's the razor, the razor 1:10:45.960 --> 1:10:49.360 h d A, MG, what happened all that stuff? That 1:10:49.439 --> 1:10:53.439 stuff moves, Yeah, moved, which is a big process in 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:55.240 and of itself, just you know, I mean, I mean 1:10:55.280 --> 1:10:58.120 you hire a company to like take that on, and 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:00.599 I mean that's what they specialize in, is is moving 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:03.559 equipment like that. And I wasn't super close to that process, 1:11:03.600 --> 1:11:05.599 but I know, I know it was a process. Did 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:10.360 they give you a humorous office? Corner office? I probably 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:13.840 have the sweetest cube in the world. You got a cubicle? Yeah? 1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:15.680 Did you look out your window recently? Tell me you 1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:17.559 saw some birds or is that someone different? Does you? 1:11:17.720 --> 1:11:20.000 I mean the so yeah, I'm on I'm on the 1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:22.519 second floor and actually the whole building. I mean, when 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:24.040 you guys can buy, I mean you'll see it. I 1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:28.920 mean it really is, uh you know, an engineering masterpiece. 1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:32.920 But uh um, yeah, I mean good windows, good light. Yeah, 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:36.240 we we we look out on on on the I 1:11:36.280 --> 1:11:38.519 guess the front of the building or where you would 1:11:38.640 --> 1:11:44.439 enter the building, um backs up to nature Conservancy. So yeah, 1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:46.360 you got Do you feel it to be unethical if 1:11:46.360 --> 1:11:48.040 you shot one of those turkeys out of your second 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:52.479 story office building? I do, out of the second story 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:55.040 office building. Yeah, I'm probably probably not gonna take that shot. 1:11:55.040 --> 1:11:56.760 But I've been thinking about that though lately, because I 1:11:56.760 --> 1:11:58.240 mean we've been seeing them there you know, they're they've 1:11:58.240 --> 1:12:00.920 got some regulars that come by and you get to 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:02.640 know him. Not to get to know him, but I 1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:05.240 mean you see him regularly, and I'm like, man, you know, 1:12:05.280 --> 1:12:07.519 like I just don't think. And again it goes into 1:12:07.560 --> 1:12:10.000 those like ethics, not ethics, but just like those gray 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:12.840 areas of if I was just to be turkey hunting 1:12:12.880 --> 1:12:17.000 in general and I came upon a turkey, i'd probably 1:12:17.000 --> 1:12:19.960 shoot that turkey. I don't know, because that that's the 1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:23.240 thing I have to say. This is like grade school. 1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:26.120 There's so many people in here. It's like you can 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:29.880 be talking over thirteen people know what's going on. Okay, 1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:31.920 this is what I don't get though. Your thing with 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:35.080 the trout on their spawning beds. Why can't you shoot 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:37.639 a turkey in a tree? Because it's wrong? And I would. 1:12:38.080 --> 1:12:41.519 That's how if it's legal, I would shoot every turkey different. 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.360 Here's your turkey hunt. Forget the calls. You sneak up 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:46.639 to the bottom of the tree in the dark. As 1:12:46.680 --> 1:12:49.679 soon as shooting our starts. You have a little deeper 1:12:49.760 --> 1:12:54.000 on your watching, Paul, And when that turkey some double 1:12:54.960 --> 1:12:57.880 As a young man. As a young man, I attempted 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:01.880 something like that it did not work. My questions is, 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:05.719 are those turkeys spotting? Why can't you shoot a turkey? 1:13:07.160 --> 1:13:12.240 Is different? Turkey's are majestic, noble. No. Here, this is 1:13:12.280 --> 1:13:14.240 where the whole thing falls apart. Here's what the whole 1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.960 thing falls apart, because I do believe that there is 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.559 a right and a wrong way to get a turkey. See, 1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:22.559 I just can't go. I just cannot. I will never 1:13:22.600 --> 1:13:24.840 in my life be talked into that. I used to 1:13:24.840 --> 1:13:28.839 be a bushwhacker. I used to bushwhack him, and now, 1:13:30.080 --> 1:13:36.200 um now I'm like, Saul is it, Paul's who is it? 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:39.160 Who's who's up on their Bible learning? Who got who 1:13:39.240 --> 1:13:41.679 gets blinded? On the way? Who the damask is? Saul 1:13:41.800 --> 1:13:44.599 or Paul? If not one of you guys knows this 1:13:47.000 --> 1:13:48.720 gets blind I don't know. Yeah. So I had my 1:13:48.800 --> 1:13:55.759 Damascus moment um where I stopped bushwhacking turkeys. See everyone 1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:58.599 that goes turkey hunting so hard, I'm like, can the shotgun? 1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:02.040 I'll show you how hard it is. Listen, Yeah, you 1:14:03.479 --> 1:14:10.400 feel a different grade turkeys one decoin ducks, right, Yeah, 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:12.880 but I like the jump ducks, but it's not as 1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:15.519 cool as decoy them. It's just when there's so much 1:14:15.560 --> 1:14:20.600 more stuff and so much more effort to decoin, but 1:14:20.640 --> 1:14:24.599 you would never shoot a duck on the water. He's like, 1:14:26.840 --> 1:14:29.639 not true. I have been in situations where and there's 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.080 a very good argument you made for it. Where I've 1:14:33.080 --> 1:14:37.599 been with people who said, listen, uh, I put a 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:40.479 lot of time and effort into selecting my spot and 1:14:40.560 --> 1:14:44.240 camouflaging myself and putting out my decoys and calling. And 1:14:44.240 --> 1:14:47.280 I'm hunting a high pressure area. Right if I can 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:50.360 do everything so right and trick the birds so much, 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:52.240 I was supposed to be like, oh, I only kind 1:14:52.240 --> 1:14:56.439 of tricked them where he passed over and I shot him. 1:14:56.479 --> 1:14:58.679 But I went through all the work to fully trick 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:01.160 him to the point where he handed in my spread. 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:03.439 And it's like, oh, you're too good. You tricked him 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:06.280 too much. You've now forfeited your right to shoot the duck. 1:15:07.400 --> 1:15:08.800 But so some guys will be like, I'm gonna now 1:15:08.920 --> 1:15:12.120 jump it up, right. So now you're like, if you 1:15:12.200 --> 1:15:15.680 put yourself in the ducks position, okay, where I say 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:18.559 to you, brody, I'm gonna kill you now. I could 1:15:18.600 --> 1:15:22.200 just shoot you in the head right now. I'm gonna 1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:23.960 shoot you in the leg and then run around and 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:25.599 chase you and beat you over the hell of a gun? 1:15:26.320 --> 1:15:28.720 What are you gonna pick? I'll take the quick one. 1:15:29.479 --> 1:15:32.000 But that's a shooting him on the water. I think 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:36.920 it's less effective. You can't break their way exactly. They dive. 1:15:37.040 --> 1:15:39.240 It's it's almost more you jump them up, so you 1:15:39.280 --> 1:15:43.120 know you'll kill him because because then he's yeah yeah, now, yeah, 1:15:43.160 --> 1:15:45.280 I've seen some you know, not that I was. I 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:46.840 don't want to say I was on the trigger, but 1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:50.080 I have seen I have seen some on the water 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:52.960 gimmes where everybody's kind of like, how in the world 1:15:53.000 --> 1:15:55.920 did that not work? Right? They almost have to aim 1:15:55.960 --> 1:15:58.200 below him. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I'm gonna 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:03.000 get back to mark from it though, Um what layout for? 1:16:03.160 --> 1:16:05.320 Like what's going on with new products and whatnot with 1:16:05.320 --> 1:16:09.080 you guys? So yeah, man, um really talking about getting 1:16:09.080 --> 1:16:10.920 a little job about turkeys? Is there anything I should 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:13.559 be getting excited about? Man, we got some new buyos 1:16:13.640 --> 1:16:15.479 that are super sweet that'd be good for turkey hunt. 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:17.000 Like how does it fit? Like, what is what you 1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:19.200 got coming out? How does it fit in? I mean 1:16:19.439 --> 1:16:23.040 their new So we just like like three weeks ago 1:16:23.200 --> 1:16:26.400 we released our new I guess our new generation of 1:16:26.439 --> 1:16:30.000 the Viper HD buyos um. So if anybody's familiar with 1:16:30.040 --> 1:16:32.320 like the original Viper HD series, this is kind of 1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:36.320 a next evolution of those. And I mean, I guess 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:38.160 for me, how works in the Turkey hunting is you 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:40.679 should always have a set of binoculars whatever you're hunting. 1:16:40.720 --> 1:16:41.800 I had to get you know what the already my 1:16:41.800 --> 1:16:43.519 body Tommy Yets and it was like, do you bring 1:16:43.600 --> 1:16:48.519 binoculars turkey hunting? I'm like absolutely, yeah, I've been like 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:51.960 the look at stuffing binoculars everything hunting, I'd be annoyed. 1:16:52.200 --> 1:16:54.400 I mean, and I have forgot my binoculars before, you know, 1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:55.920 getting out of the house early in the morning, and 1:16:55.920 --> 1:16:58.320 you it's like forgetting your cell phone. It's like, you're 1:16:58.479 --> 1:17:02.320 it's the cell phone of hunting equipment, even though I 1:17:02.320 --> 1:17:04.160 guess cell phones are kind of part for hunt equipment. Now, 1:17:04.200 --> 1:17:06.120 you know what I'm saying. You always check in your pocket, Yeah, 1:17:06.160 --> 1:17:08.360 I bring them with Yeah, you have it, yeah, use it, 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:10.120 keep it, keep all the time. So they're that, I mean, 1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:14.800 that's uh, optically there step up form factors awesome. They're 1:17:14.800 --> 1:17:18.000 a little bit more compact, so what are they like 1:17:18.280 --> 1:17:20.519 when it when it comes to are they more they're 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:23.000 they're less money than the Razors. Yeah, so they'd be 1:17:23.040 --> 1:17:26.320 kind of like a tier tier below the Razor. But 1:17:26.400 --> 1:17:30.639 I mean they're they're solid, biny, they're good. So I'd 1:17:30.680 --> 1:17:33.080 say that that's the binal that I would suggest even 1:17:33.439 --> 1:17:37.439 before and now, like a person who has a need 1:17:37.560 --> 1:17:40.880 for kind of who uses their optics in a manner 1:17:40.880 --> 1:17:42.599 where they kind of have that need for top tier 1:17:42.600 --> 1:17:45.680 optical performance but maybe don't have the budget to take on, 1:17:46.160 --> 1:17:49.040 you know, a top tier binal like the Razor HD. 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:52.040 You know you can fall back into that Viper HD 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:55.080 and you're still getting a very very good optic for 1:17:55.120 --> 1:17:57.479 your dollar. Ya. How do you guys when you're picture 1:17:57.520 --> 1:18:02.960 and all that man um Like what the do do 1:18:02.960 --> 1:18:06.680 do people call up in Uh? Do people call up 1:18:06.720 --> 1:18:10.439 and like express bafflement about what how stuff like why 1:18:10.520 --> 1:18:13.840 bnoculars and stuff are so expensive? Or they just kind 1:18:13.880 --> 1:18:15.360 of like people just accept now that it's like a 1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:17.160 thing that costs money. It was difficult, Like I always 1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:19.360 talk about one of our guy books, I wrote about 1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:23.200 guys that roll up in fifty pickups with Tony Tony 1:18:23.240 --> 1:18:25.400 Doll bronoculars. I'm like, you got it all wrong, bro, 1:18:26.600 --> 1:18:29.200 you know, I mean I think that still happens, you know, 1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:31.360 And I think, and we've talked about this before, but 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:33.800 I mean, I think it takes somebody having having that 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:36.639 optics epiphany, you know, when they when they really see 1:18:36.640 --> 1:18:39.200 what it's about, you know, and maybe they use their buddies, 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:41.439 you know, really good buyos or something like that, and 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:43.040 then you know they're like, oh man, I need to 1:18:43.040 --> 1:18:44.519 get a set of that. I can tell you my epiphany. 1:18:44.520 --> 1:18:46.360 Do you know what my epiphany? I think we talked 1:18:46.360 --> 1:18:48.759 about it before, but yeah, well was it. We're hunting 1:18:48.760 --> 1:18:51.840 on the uh years ago the first time everyone out 1:18:51.840 --> 1:18:54.160 there were hunt on the north slope of the Brooks Range, 1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:57.720 and there's a grizzly coming up the other side of 1:18:57.720 --> 1:19:00.200 the river from our camp and I'm looking that a 1:19:00.280 --> 1:19:04.280 thing my binals and that looked at my buddies, binys, 1:19:04.280 --> 1:19:07.679 and he had just he had to spend a season 1:19:07.800 --> 1:19:12.639 pack and moose on Alaska Peninsula. And the guy gave 1:19:12.720 --> 1:19:16.599 us that of souped up binos, and well, I'm looking 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:20.000 at which just like this amorphous brown blob walking up 1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:21.720 the other riverbank and I looked through his and I 1:19:21.760 --> 1:19:26.640 can see that that there's like the winds blowing and 1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:30.640 it's forming these little cowlcks and the bear's hair. And 1:19:30.680 --> 1:19:34.000 I'm watching this like cowlic kind of move around on 1:19:34.120 --> 1:19:37.000 its rump with the breeze blowing on it, and I'm like, 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:40.080 I can tell you what I'm gonna be saving up 1:19:40.080 --> 1:19:44.400 some money for. It's like actual binals. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 1:19:44.680 --> 1:19:46.439 and and since then now, I'm just like, I'm just 1:19:46.479 --> 1:19:48.800 addicted to looking through them. Well, And I think that 1:19:48.840 --> 1:19:50.880 you when you get used to having something like that 1:19:51.080 --> 1:19:53.639 in the woods, like if you haven't been using binos, 1:19:53.720 --> 1:19:56.519 if you haven't been carrying them, which I think i'd say, 1:19:56.560 --> 1:19:58.439 by and large, like a lot of people do now, right, 1:19:58.479 --> 1:20:00.920 but I think maybe it's less common, know even you know, 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:05.360 fift twenty years ago whatever, um, throwing a very non 1:20:05.400 --> 1:20:10.120 concrete timeline on that. But um, once you do, I 1:20:10.160 --> 1:20:13.720 think you realize like what you've been missing, and you 1:20:13.760 --> 1:20:15.599 just yeah, you can't get enough. And then you you 1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:17.400 realize how important they are and what you can do 1:20:17.439 --> 1:20:19.000 with them, like you can look at stuff, you know, 1:20:19.040 --> 1:20:23.080 and whether your tree stand hunting and Wisconsin or you know, 1:20:23.200 --> 1:20:25.640 Cuisier hunting in Arizona, man, I mean, that's it's an 1:20:25.640 --> 1:20:27.680 important piece to have, for sure. You hang out with 1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:31.240 bubbly dog dering. I was hunting with Doug one time 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:33.840 and we walked up in what he calls the big woods, 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:36.320 up by the wet spot, which are the two great 1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:40.439 names for bars um. And we get by the wet 1:20:40.479 --> 1:20:42.880 spot and I just like, take my binos and scan 1:20:43.040 --> 1:20:47.320 through the big woods and glass up the tippy tippy 1:20:47.400 --> 1:20:51.040 top of a turkey fan. Never in a million years 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:53.360 would we would have walked in and spooked, glassed up 1:20:53.400 --> 1:20:55.639 that tippy top of a turkey fan, and we sat 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:59.559 down and killed that bird maybe an hour later. Never 1:20:59.600 --> 1:21:02.040 would have never would have found that turkey. No. I mean, yeah, 1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:04.080 you wouldn't have killed that bird without those binos. No. 1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:06.439 I was kind of like when I saw I was 1:21:06.439 --> 1:21:09.880 like shocked by what I was looking at. I think 1:21:09.920 --> 1:21:12.000 it's like a super important thing. And I mean that's 1:21:12.040 --> 1:21:13.960 I mean, that's just you know a good example of 1:21:14.160 --> 1:21:17.120 one tactic, right. You know, when you're creeping into that field, 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:21.080 you know, stay back glass it, you know, before you 1:21:21.120 --> 1:21:23.680 expose yourself and blow the whole thing out, you know, 1:21:23.720 --> 1:21:26.120 and you guys obviously saw something, got an opportunity and 1:21:26.160 --> 1:21:34.320 capitalized on itself. I got sorry the north thing like 1:21:34.360 --> 1:21:36.960 speaking of I'm talking about that there should be a 1:21:36.960 --> 1:21:39.400 bar called the wet Spot, which we discussed before. A 1:21:39.479 --> 1:21:41.080 guy rode in to say, like, if there was a 1:21:41.080 --> 1:21:43.960 bar called the bearded hen, would you go into it? 1:21:45.920 --> 1:21:47.840 And he also was wanted and this is a good question. 1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:53.240 Would most states you could kill? Like most states, a 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:59.320 legal bird is a bearded bird one and one hands 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:03.200 is bearded roughly. I think it's like it depends on 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:07.120 areas and whatnot. Um, would you shoot a bearded him? 1:22:10.040 --> 1:22:12.920 Ask me that question, would bearded him? I've got one 1:22:12.960 --> 1:22:15.559 mounted on my wall. Shot a beard, shot a beard 1:22:15.760 --> 1:22:17.400 end and you knew you were shooting a beard at head. 1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:22.600 That's a good question. It was fall. It's just like 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:27.960 beard boom, exact same minus the mountain. You shot a 1:22:27.960 --> 1:22:31.000 beard at ye? Really yell now that these guys have 1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:35.519 broke the ice and I know it's the same thing. 1:22:38.200 --> 1:22:41.200 But yeah, I rolled a bearded in in the spring 1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:44.320 in the spring, but I called this bird in and 1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:46.160 you know, and it's kind of you know, doing this 1:22:46.200 --> 1:22:48.960 turkey stuff, and a little beard poked out I'm like, 1:22:48.960 --> 1:22:52.720 oh cool. So you're like it's a female, but it's 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:54.519 got a beard, so it's legal, you know. I mean 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:56.200 at the time, it was happening pretty quick, but I 1:22:56.200 --> 1:22:59.720 saw that beard let it rip, and I don't know, 1:22:59.720 --> 1:23:01.880 I can't say that I necessarily. I mean in the fall, 1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:03.439 I think it's a little bit different because there, you 1:23:03.439 --> 1:23:04.880 know what I mean. But yeah, I mean that's that's 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:10.160 what happened. See, I think it's wrong. Identified I want 1:23:10.160 --> 1:23:11.960 to clarify I have never shot a turkey out of 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:13.760 a roost, but I also don't think it's wrong, just 1:23:13.800 --> 1:23:16.720 in case I'm backling, But I have no quantu You 1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:20.360 can kill a turkey with attack hammer in your backyard. 1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:26.280 It's a barn animal. Man. No rules the turkeys. I 1:23:26.360 --> 1:23:30.400 generally fall under our states whatever the state defines as 1:23:30.439 --> 1:23:33.880 the regulations. Yeah, you know what Eldo Leopold said about 1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:40.800 that no ethics is doing the right thing is watching, 1:23:41.000 --> 1:23:44.840 even when doing the wrong thing is legal. My god, 1:23:45.000 --> 1:23:48.080 I'm not saying it's wrong wrong. It's not wrong wrong. 1:23:48.360 --> 1:23:50.360 But if I was hunting, and I I was hunting 1:23:50.400 --> 1:23:53.920 spring out spring turkeys, and I and I and a 1:23:54.000 --> 1:23:55.800 hand came in with a beard on it. I would 1:23:55.840 --> 1:23:58.360 not be able to This is coming from the man 1:23:58.400 --> 1:24:00.680 who would who would pitch for it? Browns out of 1:24:00.720 --> 1:24:04.599 a train. I would not be able to harm that 1:24:04.680 --> 1:24:09.519 female turkey. I don't believe. Last day of long hunt 1:24:10.040 --> 1:24:14.240 and there's a bearded hen, I don't know what. Would 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:17.840 you go into a bar named the Bearded Hen with 1:24:17.880 --> 1:24:22.120 a level of uncertainty? Would you bring your wife into 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:28.479 a bar called the Bearded Hen? Absolutely not. That's the 1:24:28.520 --> 1:24:35.800 only way I would go in. Um, all right, Uh, 1:24:35.920 --> 1:24:38.839 We've got a lot of concluding thoughts, lots of concluding 1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:44.120 thoughts to go through. Um, we'll start with Brodie. Oh man, 1:24:44.280 --> 1:24:47.599 I'm just excited Turkey Seasons. I'm not there for the opener, 1:24:47.640 --> 1:24:50.439 but Colorado opened today, so I'm stoked to get back 1:24:50.479 --> 1:24:53.240 and go chase some turkeys and shoot him out of 1:24:53.240 --> 1:25:00.120 trees with a nail gun. What's what is your what 1:25:00.240 --> 1:25:03.200 is your actual like turkey hunt plan? Well, I got 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:05.000 two tags that drew a tag and I gotten over 1:25:05.040 --> 1:25:07.439 the counter text. So I'll hunt the draw tag first 1:25:07.560 --> 1:25:09.360 and then let all the guys clear out of the 1:25:09.439 --> 1:25:12.200 over the counter areas, and then after get after a 1:25:12.200 --> 1:25:14.479 couple of weeks later, Yeah, My brother got both his 1:25:14.560 --> 1:25:17.920 turkeys today just watching said, yeah, he just did a 1:25:17.920 --> 1:25:20.200 trip and got two turkeys, so he doesn't like stretching 1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:24.800 the hunt out. No, you know, in some places you 1:25:24.840 --> 1:25:27.120 can't do that on the on the same day. You 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:29.720 know what I saw the other day in Arkansas, You're 1:25:29.760 --> 1:25:39.120 not allowed to shoot Jake's spring season. That's immoral to 1:25:39.120 --> 1:25:42.599 make hands. He can't shoot a Jake. Well, you know, 1:25:43.280 --> 1:25:46.360 we're going to Missouri tomorrow and I've been trying to 1:25:46.360 --> 1:25:49.559 weigh out in my head. I'm you know, I'm like, okay, yeah, 1:25:49.560 --> 1:25:51.280 I'm gonna hold out for long beard. But at what 1:25:51.360 --> 1:25:53.960 point do I, as my brother says, put the Jake 1:25:54.000 --> 1:25:56.799 breaks on one. Well, that's what's nice about having two tags. 1:25:56.920 --> 1:25:59.720 You can, you know, you can focus on the big 1:25:59.760 --> 1:26:03.559 bull and take a Jacob. They banned shooting Jake's in 1:26:03.560 --> 1:26:06.679 the spring. I just stumble across it, you know, looking 1:26:06.680 --> 1:26:11.400 at that, like on Arkansas website and they posted their 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:15.800 legs and no Jake's for you listeners, that Jake is 1:26:15.880 --> 1:26:19.559 a it would be a one year old turkey, and 1:26:19.600 --> 1:26:22.360 he doesn't have spurs. He's just got little round nubs 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:24.720 and his beard is like an inch or too long, 1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:28.800 and I'd have a few more unpunched turkey tags. If 1:26:28.800 --> 1:26:32.320 it was illegal to kill Jake's I would never shoot 1:26:32.320 --> 1:26:36.880 a Jake. That's where I draw the line and the 1:26:37.000 --> 1:26:39.240 roofs with his nail gun. And he's like, yeah, I 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:41.639 only go see, I only go so low. Here a beard, 1:26:41.800 --> 1:26:45.120 a bearded hand, that's one thing that's just weird. But Jake, 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:47.639 you know, he doesn't even have a chance to breed yet. No, 1:26:47.680 --> 1:26:52.360 they don't monsters, his fan his fans not totally tricked out, 1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:57.200 can't do a real rip and gobble. Uh was that 1:26:57.200 --> 1:27:03.120 that's your concluder? Yeah, Mark Kenyon been in the hot seat. Yeah, uh, 1:27:03.160 --> 1:27:05.040 you know, this is my first b h A rendevo 1:27:05.080 --> 1:27:07.040 had been at. We haven't really talked about like where 1:27:07.080 --> 1:27:09.800 we're at here and what's going on. But I think 1:27:09.840 --> 1:27:11.920 my concluding thought was just what an awesome group of 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:14.160 people that's here at this event. I mean, the energy 1:27:14.320 --> 1:27:19.040 has been really impressive. The relative youth has been surprising 1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:21.360 and impressing. That's maybe not surprising, but I think compared 1:27:21.400 --> 1:27:24.479 to other events you go to within the hunting and 1:27:24.479 --> 1:27:27.840 fishing world, it's it doesn't look like this. Um So 1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:32.240 that was encouraging to see and um stoked about. It's 1:27:32.400 --> 1:27:35.280 just you get a lot of excitement and group like 1:27:35.320 --> 1:27:36.880 this for the future of what we're doing here in 1:27:36.920 --> 1:27:39.960 the hunting and fishing and conservation world, and the future 1:27:40.000 --> 1:27:42.120 is bright when you look at this group. Yeah, it's 1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:44.479 kind of stunning to see pictures of the group and 1:27:44.439 --> 1:27:48.960 the age demographic defies the norm. I remember not too 1:27:49.000 --> 1:27:54.639 long ago i read that um in Michigan the average 1:27:54.720 --> 1:27:58.800 age of a person who buys a trapping license goes 1:27:58.880 --> 1:28:09.280 up exactly one every year, which is old tad still 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:15.000 at it. It was harrowing. Can we talk about how 1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:19.440 you're off the market? Oh yeah, all those ladies locks. 1:28:21.000 --> 1:28:25.440 I don't know if I could wooly mammoth ivory, yeah, 1:28:25.520 --> 1:28:29.479 it's not legal wooly mammoth ivory. Yeah? Is there? I 1:28:29.479 --> 1:28:31.280 don't know, is there now? There's like a big thing 1:28:31.320 --> 1:28:33.760 they want to band mammoth ivory because it's becoming like 1:28:33.800 --> 1:28:36.840 replacing elephant ivery. Apparently, you know, a lot of it 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:39.760 depends on where it was found private land, public land. 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:43.680 It's found in private land. It's like, yeah, because yeah, 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:45.600 there's a lot of you know what, Brody were you 1:28:45.680 --> 1:28:47.960 just sent me that article, I think you did you know? Uh, 1:28:48.400 --> 1:28:52.200 if familiar with the Lacey I guess the Lacey Act. 1:28:53.120 --> 1:28:57.320 So for a listener who isn't, you're excused if you 1:28:57.320 --> 1:28:59.320 don't know the Lacy Act. The Lacy Act is one 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:02.200 of the things that allow just too. You know, back 1:29:02.200 --> 1:29:05.280 in the early the Lacy Act is one of the 1:29:05.320 --> 1:29:08.080 things that allowed us to start putting an end to 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:13.920 market hunting, which was decimating wildlife populations. Is it makes 1:29:13.960 --> 1:29:19.639 it a federal offense to move like illegally obtained wildlife 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:24.439 across state lines. So if states states might have um 1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:28.519 lacks rules governing wildlife, but the Lacy Act allows you 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:31.519 to make federal crimes out of moving things around. And 1:29:31.600 --> 1:29:34.560 someone will just show me an article where this is 1:29:34.640 --> 1:29:38.559 kind of perplexing. They're using the Lazy Act to go 1:29:38.640 --> 1:29:42.880 after people smuggling dinosaur bones. So here you're taking an 1:29:42.920 --> 1:29:45.559 animal from sixty five million years ago who has a 1:29:45.600 --> 1:29:50.799 fossilized bone and using a contemporary wildlife trafficking law to too. 1:29:51.760 --> 1:29:55.040 It's a novel approach, man, how well it will hold 1:29:55.080 --> 1:29:59.200 up in court? It's not recognized as wildlife. When I 1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:01.680 called albert a first fishing game, when I found that 1:30:02.080 --> 1:30:05.840 buffalo skull there only a couple of hundred years old. 1:30:06.840 --> 1:30:14.000 He said, great buffalo is not a recognized game species. Okay, yeah, 1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:17.240 whatever you want, you find some mineralized like when you 1:30:17.240 --> 1:30:22.679 find a dinosaur fossil, that's right. It's just a weird deal, man, 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:24.840 it's a weird deal. But what they're looking for there 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:28.080 is where it was applicable is there's a lot of people, 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:32.200 like right now, everybody goes to Mongolia for dinosaur fossils. 1:30:32.600 --> 1:30:34.800 It's like the New it would be like you know, 1:30:34.800 --> 1:30:37.120 it'd be like New Mexico in the nineteen thirties, right, 1:30:37.160 --> 1:30:41.400 It's just like it's not picked over yet. People used 1:30:41.400 --> 1:30:44.080 to see it in disregard it the same way you know, 1:30:44.080 --> 1:30:46.360 people used to not pick up Indian arrowheads. And all 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:50.360 of a sudden, you get enough time and separating the 1:30:50.360 --> 1:30:53.360 two events and it starts to become something noteworthy. So 1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:57.200 there's people like looting all these and there's not much 1:30:57.280 --> 1:31:00.000 enforcement in Mongolia. So there's people looting all these dinosaurs 1:31:00.160 --> 1:31:02.720 fossils out of Mongolian bringing them into the US, and 1:31:02.720 --> 1:31:05.320 they're using the Lacey Act to go after people with it, 1:31:05.880 --> 1:31:09.240 which I thought was an interesting approach. Uh, but aremy 1:31:09.280 --> 1:31:12.679 your concluder. You're married. I feel different. Yeah, it feels good. 1:31:13.080 --> 1:31:15.360 I think it should feel different a little bit. You know. 1:31:16.240 --> 1:31:18.719 I like it. I'm excited about it. It's a great wedding, 1:31:18.800 --> 1:31:21.720 and uh, it was a lot of fun also. Uh. 1:31:21.920 --> 1:31:26.439 One of my final thoughts. Everyone will think that I 1:31:26.479 --> 1:31:29.839 hate on Turkey's mostly it's just for fun, because that's funny. 1:31:29.960 --> 1:31:32.720 It's funny. It's funny. It's like one of those things. 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:35.600 It's like I can pick the turkey guy that's a 1:31:35.640 --> 1:31:38.719 fanatic about turkey and just go after him only because 1:31:39.280 --> 1:31:42.840 I think I've got that turkey hunter distaste from guiding 1:31:42.920 --> 1:31:46.120 him Montanas or guiding elk hunter so much, and these 1:31:46.120 --> 1:31:49.400 guys coming and going, oh yeah olk cutting, No, I've 1:31:49.479 --> 1:31:54.800 I've got it. It's just like turkey hunting. I'm like, nah' sorry, 1:31:54.960 --> 1:32:01.040 I've been turkey hunting. It's nothing like they make similarities. No, 1:32:01.280 --> 1:32:04.759 sheep hunting. It's a lot like turkey hunting. I think 1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:08.200 what I think of turkey hunting is being like a 1:32:08.200 --> 1:32:11.880 little mini elk hunt because it's like it does have 1:32:12.000 --> 1:32:16.000 this right that there's a male and he has this 1:32:16.080 --> 1:32:19.960 audacious noise he makes and then there's a female and 1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:23.559 she has sort of a more a more tempered kind 1:32:23.560 --> 1:32:26.080 of calm version that she makes, and you're using the 1:32:26.160 --> 1:32:28.000 one to bring in the other, and you sit up 1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:30.400 on a high spot and you're praying to hear a goble, 1:32:30.479 --> 1:32:33.519 just like you're praying to hear a bugle. If I 1:32:33.560 --> 1:32:38.439 was yeah, it's like saying elk hunting is a lot 1:32:38.520 --> 1:32:40.799 like well, then turkey hunting is all like pigeon hunting. 1:32:41.120 --> 1:32:48.920 You're like, yeah, I would never say it, right, I 1:32:48.920 --> 1:32:54.320 think Yanni does say it. Yeah, so yeah, but I 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:57.080 see where they're coming from. I get it, But it's also, 1:32:57.400 --> 1:33:00.439 in my mind, two completely different things. And if anybody 1:33:00.439 --> 1:33:02.120 that has said that to me while I've been guiding 1:33:02.200 --> 1:33:05.479 them learned within a few minutes that it was not 1:33:05.560 --> 1:33:09.320 the same. So I'm like, all right, Like a statement 1:33:09.360 --> 1:33:12.000 of saying the hunting of the two is similar, I 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:16.439 would say that that's pretty false for obvious reasons to anybody. 1:33:16.600 --> 1:33:18.960 But I think when you start talking about interacting and 1:33:19.000 --> 1:33:22.080 calling animals, there are any other animals that I've hunted 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:26.479 anywhere where you call and interact with like that. And 1:33:26.520 --> 1:33:28.120 I've done a little bit of duck hunting now and 1:33:28.200 --> 1:33:32.759 that's that gender. That's that gender specific. What calling ducks 1:33:32.840 --> 1:33:34.760 isn't the same thing. But that's what I'm saying. I 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:36.320 don't think it's the same thing at all. You know, 1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:38.240 even though a lot of people get into the interaction, 1:33:38.280 --> 1:33:40.920 but it's still not like you're not playing the hen 1:33:41.240 --> 1:33:43.080 or the cow and trying to call in a bowl, 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:45.559 or you could play with the gobbler or another bull 1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:50.080 and calling the bull. Yeah, terrain similarly to you know, 1:33:50.200 --> 1:33:52.559 to bring the animal over a roll to come see 1:33:52.840 --> 1:33:55.160 you know, you making that call. I mean, you do 1:33:55.200 --> 1:33:59.920 those same two exact tactics. He's gonna be like, you know, 1:34:00.120 --> 1:34:04.679 it's a lot like turkey hunt. I used to disagreem, 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:10.080 but now I agree. Um cal, I don't know. I 1:34:10.120 --> 1:34:13.120 mean all all good things. That fish deal man, we've 1:34:13.120 --> 1:34:17.920 been over that a million times, and similar circles on 1:34:18.439 --> 1:34:22.920 fishing fish off their reds and yeah, it said, it's 1:34:22.960 --> 1:34:27.439 a real interesting one. Um I had something to that. Yeah, 1:34:27.479 --> 1:34:29.479 please do. I didn't have my head set on earlier. 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:31.960 We didn't have a head set. But it's kind of 1:34:32.000 --> 1:34:35.800 like the stocked pond. You can make an analogy with 1:34:35.880 --> 1:34:39.280 the stocked pond, right, like fishing the reds all of us. 1:34:39.360 --> 1:34:42.160 Probably that would ethnically like kind of not do it 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:45.479 now for trout or just whether it's ectics or just 1:34:45.560 --> 1:34:47.559 kind of like whatever, it's too easy. It's fishing to bucket. 1:34:48.080 --> 1:34:50.000 The first time you went and did it, you're probably like, 1:34:50.080 --> 1:34:54.519 holy shit, it's fun, you know, like, oh my god, 1:34:54.640 --> 1:34:57.320 you know, and then this second or third time, it's 1:34:57.360 --> 1:34:59.320 kind of like going back to this stocked trout pod. 1:34:59.400 --> 1:35:02.320 The second Yeah, all right. See that's the thing. That's 1:35:02.320 --> 1:35:04.160 why I feel a little bit of guilt because I 1:35:04.200 --> 1:35:09.200 remember um hearing about and really like exploring and trying 1:35:09.240 --> 1:35:16.120 to find the mythical brown trout spawn. Yeah. Yeah, because 1:35:16.120 --> 1:35:18.719 this is before it was a bad thing. I remember 1:35:18.760 --> 1:35:23.040 people like I remember reading in like guide books, you know, 1:35:23.120 --> 1:35:27.280 good areas to go look for spawning browns. Yeah, yeah, 1:35:27.640 --> 1:35:29.600 bets probably could find. Guy books told you how to 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:32.120 you know, blow up Candida Geese off Damns by packing 1:35:32.120 --> 1:35:34.640 a buckshot around dynamite sticks to you know what I mean, 1:35:34.720 --> 1:35:39.240 build yourself a cannon. What you're gonna need. Uh. So 1:35:39.320 --> 1:35:41.599 that's your concluding thought. You just want to touch back 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:45.400 on something earlier. Oh, I guess I'll just say thanks. 1:35:45.800 --> 1:35:50.280 I love these discussions. That's good and uh and yeah, 1:35:50.320 --> 1:35:54.160 I guess also absolutely blown away at how much this 1:35:54.360 --> 1:35:57.840 b h A rendevous has grown. It's crazy. We had 1:35:57.840 --> 1:36:02.040 those seminars this morning, nuts and I asked, h, I 1:36:02.080 --> 1:36:05.760 gotta I gotta introduce Remy for his Q and a 1:36:06.680 --> 1:36:11.639 UM and be the moderator for him. But asked out 1:36:11.680 --> 1:36:17.240 of the gate, how many people is this year first rendezvous? 1:36:17.439 --> 1:36:20.160 And I mean it had to have been over fifty 1:36:20.560 --> 1:36:22.120 of that rare I thought it was even more like 1:36:22.240 --> 1:36:25.759 eighty plus percent. There's a there's a lot of people 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:28.400 in there. Surprised me. See it's four hundred and that 1:36:28.520 --> 1:36:31.679 had to be over three I think. Yeah. The first 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:35.040 one I went to was probably six or seven years 1:36:35.040 --> 1:36:37.080 ago and it was at the fair ground in Missoula, 1:36:38.439 --> 1:36:40.599 and I gave a talk to like the dinner thing 1:36:42.120 --> 1:36:48.880 and uh most maybe a hundred fifty people. Yeah, yeah, 1:36:49.120 --> 1:36:52.519 it's so it's growing like crazy. Anik market spot on 1:36:52.720 --> 1:36:56.639 And I mean the youth is so encouraging to see 1:36:57.200 --> 1:37:02.559 it's the youngest uh um kind of rotten gun anything 1:37:02.600 --> 1:37:07.240 I've been around, so um pretty neat to see hopefully 1:37:07.720 --> 1:37:10.760 make its impacts. I think as far as uh, there's 1:37:10.880 --> 1:37:14.400 lots of talk today, Um, in the last couple of 1:37:14.439 --> 1:37:18.719 days really about you know, how we move the needle 1:37:18.840 --> 1:37:24.680 as far as new hunter recruitment and hunter retaining retainment, 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:31.280 and um, just like like Remy said many times this morning, 1:37:31.320 --> 1:37:34.680 it's like, we gotta every single person is an ambassador 1:37:34.840 --> 1:37:37.560 for what we love to do, and we gotta do 1:37:37.600 --> 1:37:39.200 a hell of a lot better job putting a better 1:37:39.200 --> 1:37:42.200 face on it. So, yeah, it's been a cool, uh 1:37:42.320 --> 1:37:46.559 cool couple of days so far. Mr Phelps. Yeah, so 1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:49.840 this is my first b H rendezvous. It's been awesome. Um. 1:37:50.160 --> 1:37:51.800 The only thing that's kind of open my eyes is 1:37:52.040 --> 1:37:54.120 I'm fairly conservative. I come from a logging town, and 1:37:54.160 --> 1:37:55.920 then you kind of show up with people that maybe 1:37:56.000 --> 1:37:57.760 you don't see eye to eye with, but we're all 1:37:57.760 --> 1:37:59.800 here for the one thing that we love. So they're 1:38:00.160 --> 1:38:03.000 less taxes. You're like, and I'm gonna make a funny joke, 1:38:03.040 --> 1:38:04.840 you know, like the shiny puffy coats. I kind of 1:38:04.880 --> 1:38:06.479 make a joke like at home, I'm the guy in 1:38:06.479 --> 1:38:08.920 a fleece because that's old school. But yeah, I'm like, 1:38:08.960 --> 1:38:10.920 I've never been around so many hunters in a shiny 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:13.920 puffy coat before. But it's cool because you can take that. 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:16.360 And we're all here for the same reason. We all 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:17.960 love to recreate on public land. We all love to 1:38:18.000 --> 1:38:19.880 hunt and fish on it. And for all of us 1:38:19.960 --> 1:38:22.680 to come together, um as a group of people with 1:38:22.720 --> 1:38:25.240 the one passion and be laser focused on public lands, 1:38:25.240 --> 1:38:29.360 is it is awesome? Um? Yeah, And I do want 1:38:29.360 --> 1:38:32.560 to do you? Do you feel that this? Can you 1:38:32.680 --> 1:38:34.360 check this out? No, it's got a first, it's got 1:38:34.360 --> 1:38:36.320 a first. Let you can check it out like part 1:38:36.640 --> 1:38:40.320 part of my jackets a little shiny. No, No, you're good. No, No, 1:38:40.360 --> 1:38:43.719 I'm just kidding. Remy's Remy's a jerk for shooting turkeys 1:38:43.720 --> 1:38:49.759 have a tree? How about bearded hands? So there's two sides, 1:38:49.800 --> 1:38:51.040 like and then we didn't you guys didn't even really 1:38:51.080 --> 1:38:53.400 get into like the genetic mutation side of it, like 1:38:53.400 --> 1:38:55.240 maybe we should get those things out of here? Are 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:57.160 they bad? I don't know if it's bad. I've just 1:38:57.160 --> 1:38:59.400 heard that side of the story, like it is a 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:02.240 genetic mutation and we should shoot those things. I would 1:39:02.280 --> 1:39:06.880 say that without genetic mutations, Um, I feel like life 1:39:06.920 --> 1:39:08.760 would have ended a long time ago. Yeah, I mean, 1:39:08.760 --> 1:39:12.960 I'm I'm just saying I I wouldn't specifically target one 1:39:12.960 --> 1:39:16.639 of one came walking through the setup and I knew 1:39:16.680 --> 1:39:18.519 it was a bearded him. I would probably let it go. 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:20.320 But it's it's it's one of those things where you know, 1:39:20.320 --> 1:39:22.840 I'm not gonna pass my my own belief onto something. 1:39:22.880 --> 1:39:24.040 You know, if you want to shoot, it's within the 1:39:24.040 --> 1:39:25.839 state laws. And that kind of gets back to the 1:39:25.840 --> 1:39:29.599 the fishing thing, um, you know where where kel doesn't 1:39:29.600 --> 1:39:32.120 want to fish over over the edds, but then maybe 1:39:32.120 --> 1:39:33.800 my kid does because that's a different experience, and so 1:39:33.840 --> 1:39:35.960 I don't necessarily say we want to put laws that 1:39:36.320 --> 1:39:38.880 you know, cover that or blanket it for everybody. But 1:39:38.960 --> 1:39:41.000 then you know he's out there for the sport and 1:39:41.000 --> 1:39:43.280 and uh, you know the uncertainty of of hooking up 1:39:43.320 --> 1:39:45.599 one we're like me taking my kid. Maybe I don't 1:39:45.600 --> 1:39:46.439 want to do that, but I want to have the 1:39:46.439 --> 1:39:48.360 ability to take my kid and hook up to that fish. 1:39:48.640 --> 1:39:51.040 And so I think there's a and you know, you 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:53.639 gotta look at it through that scope of of who 1:39:53.680 --> 1:39:57.640 the person is and um, you know, take take it 1:39:57.680 --> 1:40:01.719 for what it is. When you were talking earlier about uh, 1:40:01.880 --> 1:40:09.080 like political spectrums, do you feel that uh, do you 1:40:09.120 --> 1:40:14.080 feel that that people right, who who lean politically right, 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:17.040 and people lean people who lean politically left. Do you 1:40:17.080 --> 1:40:21.960 see like in your community that people coalesce around the 1:40:22.000 --> 1:40:27.559 idea of supporting public lands or in particularly supporting federal 1:40:27.760 --> 1:40:31.599 land management agencies and sort of assisting them and and 1:40:31.680 --> 1:40:35.479 you know, giving them verbal support and helping them, you know, 1:40:35.680 --> 1:40:39.960 make decisions that allow access. But you know, do do 1:40:39.960 --> 1:40:42.519 you feel that there's that people are coming around this 1:40:42.600 --> 1:40:44.760 idea on your community or do you feel that it's 1:40:44.760 --> 1:40:48.599 a divisive issue in your community? In the dead center 1:40:48.640 --> 1:40:51.559 of Warehouser Country, you know, the biggest land management manager 1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:53.559 in the state of Washington, and so we don't there's 1:40:53.600 --> 1:40:55.920 a very select few of us that have to travel 1:40:55.960 --> 1:40:57.880 two hours to the east to recreate on you know, 1:40:57.920 --> 1:41:00.200 some federal lands. Um, we have some state owned ends 1:41:00.200 --> 1:41:03.800 and stuff. But so I would around home, it's more 1:41:03.880 --> 1:41:07.160 of interest on like how warehouses managing, not necessarily on 1:41:07.160 --> 1:41:10.320 on the you guys are recreating on publicly accessible land 1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:12.240 that's privately owned. Well, now, as long as you pay 1:41:12.280 --> 1:41:15.000 three and fifty bucks, you get a key. Yeah. I 1:41:15.040 --> 1:41:19.360 bought a hundred dollar pass for walking. Yeah. Yeah, so 1:41:19.400 --> 1:41:21.760 you can do that. Yeah, I mean everybody everybody finds 1:41:21.800 --> 1:41:25.400 it important, you know, anything that that, um, you know, 1:41:25.439 --> 1:41:28.160 affects them and their recreation and people are passionate about 1:41:28.400 --> 1:41:30.280 So we don't get a big push in my area 1:41:30.439 --> 1:41:33.000 for public lands besides a few of us that that 1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:36.960 you know, routinely drive two hours eastern saying so when 1:41:36.960 --> 1:41:40.920 you're when you're hunting local, you're hunting warehouse warehouses or 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:46.519 privately owned industrial which yeah, and that's like that too, 1:41:46.680 --> 1:41:49.519 is a significant thing. And I think that that's a 1:41:50.960 --> 1:41:52.920 I think people look at the public lands debate and 1:41:53.280 --> 1:41:55.719 groups like b h A that really support public lands, 1:41:56.000 --> 1:41:57.840 and I think other people kind of have this question, 1:41:57.880 --> 1:42:00.519 like like our friend Doug, who's very involved in private 1:42:00.600 --> 1:42:05.080 land conservation, and he'll kind of feel like he doesn't 1:42:05.080 --> 1:42:06.840 really say this, but I think it's sometimes he feels like, 1:42:07.280 --> 1:42:09.400 why all of a sudden, all this attention, Like most 1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:12.880 land in the country, especially in these most land's private land. 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:14.840 If we're gonna get serious about conservation with it, to 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:17.400 pay a lot of attention to private land conservation, that's 1:42:17.400 --> 1:42:19.599 where real con that's where some of the most important 1:42:19.600 --> 1:42:22.679 conservation work. But you know, I would say him, um, 1:42:24.240 --> 1:42:26.280 and I do say to him, but but there's not 1:42:26.360 --> 1:42:29.080 an emptiness there. I think that we have stuff in 1:42:29.080 --> 1:42:32.800 place to try to do that, like farm bills, CRP programs. 1:42:32.880 --> 1:42:34.760 I mean, there's a lot more dollars per acre that 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:38.680 go into private land conservation issues. But I think he 1:42:38.760 --> 1:42:40.639 kind of feels that, um, there's a sort of lack 1:42:40.680 --> 1:42:45.360 of sexiness around all that, just like the work of 1:42:45.439 --> 1:42:48.439 doing good wildlife work on private land. And I think 1:42:48.439 --> 1:42:50.840 like that there's this third area too, which is these 1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:54.599 sort of almost like wilderness type places, these big tree 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:59.000 farms which are the size of they only land the 1:42:59.040 --> 1:43:03.519 size of National four Us that are you know, privately held, 1:43:03.560 --> 1:43:06.080 and there's a conservation question to have there too, and 1:43:06.120 --> 1:43:09.240 also like giving them some giving them the credit of 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:11.680 allowing a public access program. They're not making tons of 1:43:11.720 --> 1:43:14.479 money on public access. And I think it comes back 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:16.519 and maybe I'm a little off here, but it comes 1:43:16.520 --> 1:43:18.679 back to the reason we're so passionate about public lands 1:43:18.880 --> 1:43:20.400 is all eight of us in this room can end 1:43:20.479 --> 1:43:23.160 up at some wilderness in Colorado hunting, and so we are, 1:43:23.840 --> 1:43:26.880 um all concerned about the conservation on that piece of 1:43:26.880 --> 1:43:30.040 public land. Where a private land in Oowa, I have 1:43:30.400 --> 1:43:32.040 this much interest in it because I'm never gonna get 1:43:32.040 --> 1:43:34.280 a hunt there, even though I do care about the species. 1:43:34.280 --> 1:43:36.040 So I think it comes back to a little bit 1:43:36.080 --> 1:43:38.360 of that selfish nature that all of us in this 1:43:38.439 --> 1:43:41.320 room can take it and not take advantage. But we 1:43:41.320 --> 1:43:43.880 we have the ability to to recreate on some of 1:43:43.880 --> 1:43:46.040 this public land that potentially holds the animals we want 1:43:46.040 --> 1:43:49.320 to go pursue where that private land back east and 1:43:49.560 --> 1:43:51.880 it just doesn't hold anything for us, even though we 1:43:51.920 --> 1:43:54.400 all do care about you know, the the white tail, 1:43:54.439 --> 1:43:55.960 and and you know the stuff that is back there 1:43:56.000 --> 1:43:58.439 that that I may not you know, get the get 1:43:58.439 --> 1:44:02.320 the hunt that private proper. Ever, you know, uh, are 1:44:02.360 --> 1:44:04.519 you talking about Dog? He's got a funny story. I 1:44:04.600 --> 1:44:06.400 kind of hesitate to tell this. I don't want to 1:44:06.400 --> 1:44:11.080 get Dog in trouble. Well I'll tell it. So Dougs 1:44:11.080 --> 1:44:14.160 in a bar and a guy, like a local guy 1:44:14.200 --> 1:44:16.760 in the bar. It's like, oh, yeah, if you want 1:44:16.760 --> 1:44:19.360 to hunt Doug's place, you gotta be like a celebrity. 1:44:19.360 --> 1:44:21.960 You know, Doug won't anybody on his place, and dogs 1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:25.320 is half the bar. Goes, I was just hunting Dog's place, 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:28.280 So that goes. Baby, You don't hunt Doug's place because 1:44:28.280 --> 1:44:35.000 you're an asshole. So there is Yeah, I think there 1:44:35.120 --> 1:44:38.679 is that, like, sure, you're doing great work, but what's 1:44:38.720 --> 1:44:42.599 the how's it benefit me? Um? Yeah, that's a that's 1:44:42.600 --> 1:44:44.200 a funny thing to bring up, that there is some 1:44:44.360 --> 1:44:46.360 sort of like a little bit of a selfish nature 1:44:46.720 --> 1:44:50.200 about public land because you're looking out for your own 1:44:50.200 --> 1:44:52.759 best interest. I remember saying it before that if someone 1:44:52.840 --> 1:44:56.200 came to me, like like with the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1:44:56.320 --> 1:45:00.000 if I had to make a deal. We're talking about 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:02.760 this with John Garrick. I think if I had to 1:45:02.760 --> 1:45:05.320 make a deal with the devil and they said, Okay, 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:09.360 here's here's the here's the story, Sonny, you never you're 1:45:09.439 --> 1:45:13.720 never allowed to step foot back here in exchange for 1:45:13.800 --> 1:45:16.000 that will never drill it, but you'll never see it again, 1:45:17.040 --> 1:45:19.080 or you can come here all you want. I would 1:45:19.080 --> 1:45:20.680 be like, well, I'll take the I'll take the I 1:45:20.680 --> 1:45:24.519 don't step foot on it ever again. Deal, Like, let's 1:45:24.520 --> 1:45:27.320 go with that one. So I think that it's not always, 1:45:27.360 --> 1:45:29.240 but but yeah, I think that you wind up having 1:45:29.280 --> 1:45:32.599 this idea um of that you do have a sense 1:45:32.640 --> 1:45:34.439 of ownership over and whether you're gonna use it or not. 1:45:34.479 --> 1:45:36.320 It feels the same way. That's why I think the 1:45:36.360 --> 1:45:39.320 thing that needs to happen in the conservation world is 1:45:40.200 --> 1:45:44.000 the sense of um and it happens in other factions, 1:45:44.040 --> 1:45:47.400 other cultural factions were an attack on one is an 1:45:47.439 --> 1:45:49.560 attack on all. But I think that a lot of 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:52.520 times outdoors may tend to be very sort of myopic 1:45:52.600 --> 1:45:55.439 and kind of provincial in their view of that. They're 1:45:55.439 --> 1:45:58.639 really worried about their corner of the world, and it's 1:45:58.680 --> 1:46:00.880 like harder to picture. Like for me, I've never hunt 1:46:00.880 --> 1:46:05.439 in Nebraska, so maybe a conservation issue of Nebraska doesn't 1:46:05.439 --> 1:46:08.760 feel as immediate to me, right, But to try to 1:46:08.800 --> 1:46:14.440 foster this conservation sense where where people do they're like, oh, 1:46:14.520 --> 1:46:17.559 there's trouble brewing Nebraska. I don't go there, probably never 1:46:17.560 --> 1:46:19.800 will go there, don't have anybodies there. But I'm gonna 1:46:19.800 --> 1:46:22.599 come in their defense and help him out on this 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:24.720 this wildlife issue, just because I'm viewing it like an 1:46:24.760 --> 1:46:26.960 attack on one, his attack on all. But I think 1:46:26.960 --> 1:46:29.840 it's super frustrating. It's gotta it's not can't only be 1:46:29.920 --> 1:46:33.559 a direct threat. It has to be an immediate, direct 1:46:33.600 --> 1:46:36.280 threat for the hunting community to get really fired up 1:46:36.320 --> 1:46:42.080 from what I've seen right now, let me get my 1:46:42.120 --> 1:46:48.800 boots on, uh Mark bourbon concluders. I got a couple one. 1:46:50.000 --> 1:46:55.519 My level of guilt for shooting the spirited hand is 1:46:55.600 --> 1:46:57.760 off the charts right now. But I put some thought 1:46:57.800 --> 1:46:59.760 into it because I was thinking that you got to 1:47:00.000 --> 1:47:02.200 feeling guilty about the beard and head, well, yeah, because 1:47:02.200 --> 1:47:05.120 it's I felt bad because well, and actually I'll say this, 1:47:05.240 --> 1:47:07.160 I kind of felt bad at the moment too. But 1:47:07.200 --> 1:47:11.000 I put some thought into why those rules are in place, 1:47:11.040 --> 1:47:14.040 and I think it applies to the scenario in which 1:47:14.120 --> 1:47:21.080 this incident happened, where I called this burden identified with 1:47:21.280 --> 1:47:25.640 absolute certainty that it had a beard, Yeah, And I 1:47:25.720 --> 1:47:28.880 made the decision to pull the trigger based on that, 1:47:29.240 --> 1:47:35.320 And then upon further discovery, I was like, oh, that's 1:47:35.320 --> 1:47:38.040 a unique thing. Yeah, but you gotta have some marker, 1:47:38.760 --> 1:47:43.760 Like you can't say male or female because um, you're 1:47:43.800 --> 1:47:45.640 gonna invite because people are gonna be like, well, I'm 1:47:45.640 --> 1:47:48.840 gonna what's the best way to indicate male or femaleness? 1:47:49.760 --> 1:47:53.599 And someone might very reasonably say a beard because you're 1:47:53.600 --> 1:47:55.720 not gonna tell him look at the spurs because it's 1:47:55.720 --> 1:47:58.200 hard to see spurns like it's down on its foot 1:47:58.200 --> 1:47:59.880 and he's walking through tall grass. So you can have that. 1:48:00.479 --> 1:48:02.479 You can't say like, oh, you gotta wait till he 1:48:02.520 --> 1:48:05.240 fans out in struts and displays because a lot of 1:48:05.240 --> 1:48:08.960 times they don't do that, or he'll gobble. Well maybe 1:48:09.000 --> 1:48:11.000 he comes in quiet, so at some point. And then 1:48:11.040 --> 1:48:13.519 there's there's things with the head, like a seasoned turkey 1:48:13.560 --> 1:48:15.800 hunter will look at the head, especially in the spring, 1:48:15.840 --> 1:48:19.559 and know what they're looking at, but not always so 1:48:20.280 --> 1:48:22.479 the same way, dear, like it doesn't say well some 1:48:22.520 --> 1:48:25.880 states people say like a boker male, but oftentimes it's 1:48:25.920 --> 1:48:28.960 an antlered deer. Because you gotta go, like, what is 1:48:29.000 --> 1:48:32.160 the identifying feature that we're all going to agree upon? 1:48:32.520 --> 1:48:35.560 So the fact that one and one turkeys is masquerading 1:48:35.640 --> 1:48:37.800 around with the beard, I don't think it's like a 1:48:39.120 --> 1:48:42.000 it's a legitimate mistake to make. Right. You see, you're 1:48:42.000 --> 1:48:43.559 sitting there in the woods and here comes to turkey 1:48:43.560 --> 1:48:45.880 and also there's that beard. It's like game on most people. 1:48:46.240 --> 1:48:48.479 Well yeah, and that's why I'm I'm I'm almost wondering 1:48:48.479 --> 1:48:50.320 and I don't know right, But like like you said, 1:48:50.320 --> 1:48:53.920 it's an identifying feature, so that rule is put in place. 1:48:54.000 --> 1:48:57.080 So if something like does like that does happen, like 1:48:57.680 --> 1:49:00.519 that person didn't break the law right because was the 1:49:00.600 --> 1:49:05.320 intent was not there. Like my guess would be that 1:49:05.360 --> 1:49:07.840 if there was no such thing as a bearded hint, 1:49:07.960 --> 1:49:11.439 they'd be like, how you can only shoot you know, 1:49:11.720 --> 1:49:14.840 So you know that's my that's my And then my 1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:18.360 other concluder, so's tearing you up? Have you pitched forker 1:49:18.400 --> 1:49:24.280 Brown off his spawning bed regularly? And then my other 1:49:24.280 --> 1:49:27.439 concluder is yeah, I mean, and I'll just echo Mark 1:49:27.479 --> 1:49:30.400 and Cow's uh thoughts on the on the b ch 1:49:30.439 --> 1:49:37.360 a rendezvous, cool event, awesome like minded people. I think 1:49:37.400 --> 1:49:42.800 there's um a unique electricity and a unique energy and 1:49:43.040 --> 1:49:47.840 a strong momentum of of groups that maybe that hunt 1:49:47.880 --> 1:49:50.960 and fish, but maybe cross a few other boundaries. And 1:49:51.160 --> 1:49:53.599 uh and I think, you know, I think that momentum 1:49:53.640 --> 1:49:56.200 is gonna hopefully you know, carry through where people whether 1:49:56.240 --> 1:49:59.320 you do hunting fish or you know, enjoy public lands 1:49:59.320 --> 1:50:02.880 for other recrea sational purposes. You know, we can all 1:50:02.880 --> 1:50:05.720 agree on the same thing, that about how important they are. 1:50:06.600 --> 1:50:10.360 Well said, I got two concluders, no kind of one 1:50:10.800 --> 1:50:12.479 who was here when we were talking about all the 1:50:12.520 --> 1:50:18.799 way different ways they um artificially inseminate and extract semen 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:21.960 from dogs and whatnot. You were here, yea, yeah, yeah, 1:50:22.000 --> 1:50:26.439 I el Rannie and Doug a guy to listen to that, 1:50:26.479 --> 1:50:29.479 and wrote in how he uh when he wasn't doing 1:50:29.520 --> 1:50:33.840 animal and physiology studying in a veterinary school, he was 1:50:33.880 --> 1:50:36.720 talking about their method of horse seeman collection as they 1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:39.200 would have this, uh he calls it a large wooden 1:50:39.240 --> 1:50:43.400 contraption that the stallion would do his business too. And 1:50:43.439 --> 1:50:47.320 after it did his business, you would use a They 1:50:47.400 --> 1:50:51.120 demonstrated how to use it like a little straw, and 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:53.400 you just use a little vacuum created with your own 1:50:53.439 --> 1:50:58.080 mouth to kind of fill that straw with the semen 1:50:59.120 --> 1:51:01.759 after he deposed on this, and then you've just packed 1:51:01.760 --> 1:51:03.800 the straw away for later years. And you say, you 1:51:03.840 --> 1:51:06.240 only you don't you only oversuck once, then you don't 1:51:06.280 --> 1:51:09.479 make that you don't make that mistake again. But we 1:51:09.479 --> 1:51:11.120 have gotten a lot. I'm not gonna go through all. 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:12.800 We had a lot of feedback from people about how 1:51:12.840 --> 1:51:15.600 to extract semen from various creatures that i'll I'll not 1:51:15.640 --> 1:51:17.599 get into right now, but I wanted to share that 1:51:17.640 --> 1:51:19.160 one quickly. And the only thing I wanted to say 1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:23.840 is um, this is from the bottom of my heart, like, uh, dude, 1:51:23.880 --> 1:51:26.120 it is so nice to have people like all of 1:51:26.160 --> 1:51:32.880 you guys to talk to, like honestly man um Yeah, 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:35.200 and he sense of loneliness one feels in the world, 1:51:35.280 --> 1:51:37.760 Like find a group of guys like you so you 1:51:37.760 --> 1:51:39.960 can like talk about this ship and they understand what 1:51:40.000 --> 1:51:42.519 you're talking about. Uh. It makes me feel very happy 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:45.519 and alive. So thank you very much everyone for joining us. 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:47.280 Thank you, thank you, thanks for having