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Speaker 1: There are two types of people really in the world.

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Speaker 1: There are the people who will stay and fight to

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Speaker 1: create the thing that they want, and then there are

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Speaker 1: people who will leave a conflict zone and let it

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Speaker 1: figure itself out. When I look forward five years, I

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Speaker 1: will have an eleven year old and a sixteen year old.

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Speaker 1: What's our country going to look like when they're at

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Speaker 1: those core developmental years.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Bustamante is a former covert CIA intelligence officer, decorated

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Speaker 2: military combat veteran, and successful Fortune ten corporate advisor.

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Speaker 1: After twenty years leading human and technical intelligence operations for

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Speaker 1: corporate and government clients, Andrew founded every dayspy dot.

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Speaker 2: Com, the first ever online platform designed to teach elite

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Speaker 2: spy skills to everyday people. Andrew's training content has been

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Speaker 2: praised for its innovative, authentic, and life changing impact. Most

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Speaker 2: of these conversations that we have in society today are emotional.

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Speaker 2: They're not rational discussions, and there's almost no amount of

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Speaker 2: logic you give that person that would get them to

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Speaker 2: change their emotional state. Is that just natural emergent?

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Speaker 1: It's because there's lots of really solid science that demonstrates

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Speaker 1: that you have to go emotional first.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people would say that bitcoin was created

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Speaker 2: by the CIA.

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Speaker 1: There's someone who believes everything is created by the CIA.

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Speaker 1: But the idea that bitcoin will ever be fully accepted

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Speaker 1: by a federal government, the probability is very, very low.

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Speaker 2: Are we having a World War three?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I believe we are in the middle of World

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Speaker 1: War three right now. What happens is people think world

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Speaker 1: War three is going to look like World War two.

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Speaker 1: World War three is a war of what's called.

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Speaker 2: All Right, Andrew, I've been looking forward to this interview.

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Speaker 2: Watched a bunch of your interviews, really good stuff, and

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Speaker 2: I want to get right into a question. I've watched

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Speaker 2: a bunch of your interviews obviously prepping for this, but

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Speaker 2: even before that. And I like to read the comments,

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Speaker 2: and I like to see what people are saying in

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Speaker 2: the comments. And I've seen hundreds of people engage in

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Speaker 2: the comments that claim that you're not truly EXCIA.

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Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things to see in the

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Speaker 1: comments are the people who think I'm still part of CIA,

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Speaker 1: like CIA is somehow so capable at being a government

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Speaker 1: organization that they can like seed me into society without

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Speaker 1: disclosing my true affiliation. So two things have you ever

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Speaker 1: been to You've been to the DMV.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, yes.

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Speaker 1: Why do we think that the same government that manages

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Speaker 1: the DMV as poorly as the DMV is managed is

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Speaker 1: somehow going to manage CIA so effectively that they can

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Speaker 1: seed some influence agent into society. It's just it's ludicrous.

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Speaker 1: But nevertheless, if you're going to read the comments, you're

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Speaker 1: going to find a bunch of ludicrous stuff. I am

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Speaker 1: not part of CIA. My separation paperwork confirms it. CIA

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Speaker 1: itself confirms it, and I've been out since twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: From twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen, I was going through

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Speaker 1: a cover rollback process so that they could actually disclose

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Speaker 1: my true affiliation. And then from twenty sixteen on I've

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Speaker 1: been able to claim my overt relationship with CIA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they've they've allowed you to correct. That's one

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Speaker 2: thing I think about then, is like, how are you

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Speaker 2: able to talk about all this stuff?

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Speaker 1: Correct? So CIA has a very specific non disclosure lifetime

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Speaker 1: secrecy agreement that we take, and inside that secrecy agreement,

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Speaker 1: it specifically outlines two types of things that are that

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Speaker 1: cannot be talked about without CIA approval, and those have

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Speaker 1: to do with sources, operational sources and operational methods, meaning

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Speaker 1: the sources and methods of active intelligence collection. Everything else

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Speaker 1: falls outside of that secrecy agreement. So my diet might

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Speaker 1: exercise my routine how I was taught academically, the languages

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Speaker 1: that I learned, all that stuff is outside of active

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Speaker 1: operational sources and methods. So it's really only like two

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Speaker 1: percent of what we do at CIA is truly secret

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Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. And even that two

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Speaker 1: percent you can disclose with CIA's permission. There's just a

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Speaker 1: process to go through that.

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Speaker 2: And it probably depends on what your role is and

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Speaker 2: what you're exposed to, and lots of nuance IM guessing

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Speaker 2: inside there.

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Speaker 1: Correct, because some people do operations against terrorists and they

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Speaker 1: can talk about it all day long. That's why there's

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Speaker 1: so many books out there by former officers who were

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Speaker 1: engaged in the War on Terror. But then there are

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Speaker 1: some people who do very specific things sabotage against nuclear

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Speaker 1: targets of high profile countries. Those people will never be

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Speaker 1: able to disclose.

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Speaker 2: What they did. Got it, Okay, Well we got that

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Speaker 2: out of the way. I want to get into a

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Speaker 2: little bit of your background. I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: I'm really interested in what you're doing now like this

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Speaker 2: everyday spy, and I'm interested in what I can learn

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Speaker 2: from that. So I want to ask you some questions

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Speaker 2: about that. But I want to start with some bigger

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Speaker 2: topics and questions, starting with kind of how you got

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Speaker 2: into that, but immigration, the populist right wing swing that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing all over the world, color revolutions. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about censorship, misinformation, malinformation. I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of opinions and stuff to talk about. Their elon Musk,

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Speaker 2: the election, and World War III. We'll talk about bitcoin

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Speaker 2: and some new technology. We're going to get into that earlier.

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Speaker 2: And then, like I said, I want to get into

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Speaker 2: some of your ci your spy stuff, so a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff. Will see how much we can get through.

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Speaker 2: But to kind of set the stage a little bit,

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Speaker 2: you just said you were really with the CIA. Give

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Speaker 2: us a little bit of your background, Like how does

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Speaker 2: that work? Like from the movies, they recruit people, They

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Speaker 2: find people that have these special skills, that have a

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Speaker 2: high aptitude, and they kind of come in and covertly

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Speaker 2: seduce you in I mean, I watched like the Edward

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Speaker 2: Snowden movie, and is that how it happens. Is that

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Speaker 2: how it happened for you.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of what you see in media is

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Speaker 1: it's popularized, right, It's made to look cool and sexy

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Speaker 1: and interesting, when in fact, clandestine operations are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be clandestine, are supposed to be secret. If you want

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Speaker 1: to keep something secret, you don't want it to ever

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Speaker 1: be interesting. You don't want it to ever be something

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Speaker 1: that gathers attention. You don't ever want it to be

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Speaker 1: attractive or sexy. Right, So the way that we are

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Speaker 1: actually recruited is much more mundane. For me, I was

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Speaker 1: recruited through a website. I was applying to the Peace

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Speaker 1: Corps after leaving the Air Force, and in that application process,

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Speaker 1: a red screen popped up that basically said, Hey, we

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Speaker 1: know that you're applying for this job, but we think

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Speaker 1: that you may be qualified for other jobs in the

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Speaker 1: US federal government. Are you willing to put your resume

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Speaker 1: or your application on hold for seventy two hours so

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Speaker 1: that a recruiter can reach out to you. That's how

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Speaker 1: I was recruited. My wife was recruited at a job fair.

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Speaker 1: She was My wife is also a former CIA. She

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Speaker 1: was trying to work for anybody but the CIA, but

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Speaker 1: none of the other government agent.

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Speaker 2: Why why anybody?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, because she was a social worker. She believed in,

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Speaker 1: like you know, protecting refugees, and she was very, very

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Speaker 1: very progressive in her thoughts, and she just assumed that CIA,

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Speaker 1: because of the media, was this evil entity, right.

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Speaker 2: But I'm just curious though. I mean, she was looking

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Speaker 2: at all these different jobs, peace corps, et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: she knew that the CIA was a potential, but she

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Speaker 2: did not want that, and that was on her radar.

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Speaker 1: Well, so my wife is very pragmatic, So everything that

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Speaker 1: had a government pension, everything like health and Human Services,

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Speaker 1: the Post Office, everything was on her list. And she

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Speaker 1: was coming out of i think six years of getting

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Speaker 1: a JD, getting two master's degrees, just career, a career college,

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Speaker 1: university student, and she was just looking for a stable,

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Speaker 1: predictable job. She knew CIA was a stable, predictable job,

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Speaker 1: just like she knew FBI was right, just like she

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Speaker 1: knew NSA and NRO were. But she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: go into intelligence. She wanted to go into something that

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Speaker 1: was going to help society, not something that was going

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Speaker 1: to hurt and take advantage of society.

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Speaker 2: Do people like aspire to be in the CIA and

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Speaker 2: then like go down that road and apply for it,

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Speaker 2: or they always kind of recruited that you were.

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Speaker 1: Well, the so CI is much bigger than people realize, right,

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Speaker 1: it's about ten thousand people strong. Of those ten thousand people,

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Speaker 1: only about two thousand are actually undercover. So the other

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Speaker 1: eight thousand, eight hundred people at CIA are what's known

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Speaker 1: as overt officers. Their logisticians, their analysts, their linguists, their

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Speaker 1: people who create documentation. There's people who create you know,

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Speaker 1: like everybody who creates an ALIAS document If you think

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Speaker 1: about an ALIAS passport, that passport is made of ink

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Speaker 1: and paper and plastics and materials. All of those engineers

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Speaker 1: who actually can create and fabricate that type of material

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Speaker 1: those are all overt employees. There's no reason for them

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Speaker 1: to be undercover, but they still have to be an

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Speaker 1: expert in what they do. All the people who do

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Speaker 1: our disguises, they're almost all of them come from LA

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Speaker 1: because they're all former Hollywood makeup artists, right. The people

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Speaker 1: who put the secret pockets in your jackets and the

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Speaker 1: secret pockets in your shoes, and secret pockets in your briefcase.

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Speaker 1: I mean those are people who who have worked with

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Speaker 1: materials in the past, whether they be fashion designers or

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Speaker 1: whether they be luggage designers, whatever else.

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Speaker 2: It might be. So you were recruited, I guess what

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Speaker 2: makes up a perfect CIA recruit or if you can say,

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Speaker 2: why were you recruited specifically? So obviously you were in

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Speaker 2: the military, you said the Air Force, I think, or

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Speaker 2: you told me that earlier, so they already kind of

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Speaker 2: probably had access to your information. They kind of knew

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Speaker 2: who you were. So were there certain things that they

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Speaker 2: told you that why you thought they thought you were

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Speaker 2: a good candidate or maybe that? And what makes a

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Speaker 2: good candidate for the CIA?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I actually I always wondered why they chose

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Speaker 1: me until I became senior enough in my career that

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Speaker 1: I started being a voice in choosing who came next. Right,

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Speaker 1: And there's a number of things that go hand in hand. First,

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Speaker 1: you get a very robust personality test every job in CIA.

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Speaker 1: They know what is the right personality to succeed in

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Speaker 1: that job.

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Speaker 2: So, but how would they have had that before you

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Speaker 2: put your application in them?

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Speaker 1: That's during the application process.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so they but somehow they flagged you before you took.

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Speaker 1: That well, so for me, they flagged me because they

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Speaker 1: found me coming through an application process for another government

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Speaker 1: organization that traveled overseas, took high risks, lived in places

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Speaker 1: that were uncomfortable, and that I was ideologically driven. Okay, right,

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Speaker 1: so that's how they found me. But that's just one

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Speaker 1: of many different recruitment avenues.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: They found my wife at a job fair. How do

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Speaker 1: you like? At a job fair? They're looking for a

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Speaker 1: specific type of person. The thing to keep in mind is,

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Speaker 1: I mean, see, I get something to the tune of

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Speaker 1: seventy five to eighty thousand applicants a year, and that's

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Speaker 1: not counting the thousands more that are active recruited. Of

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Speaker 1: all of those people that are that are sought out,

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Speaker 1: only about five hundred get accepted each year. So the

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Speaker 1: process that takes them from being one of eighty thousand

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Speaker 1: to one of five hundred is a vetting and assessment process,

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Speaker 1: so that they only ever hire people after they know

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Speaker 1: with high fidelity that that person's personality is going to

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Speaker 1: be a good fit for a certain job, that that

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Speaker 1: person's intellectual aptitude is going to be capable of carrying

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Speaker 1: out that job, that that person has certain ideological beliefs

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Speaker 1: that make them loyal to a higher organization, because, if

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Speaker 1: you think about it, CIA is an organization that is

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Speaker 1: driven by ideology. You're not going to be able to lie, cheat,

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Speaker 1: and steal your way through a twenty year career unless

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Speaker 1: you truly believe you're doing it for some higher purpose.

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Speaker 1: So they need to make sure it's not about recruit

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Speaker 1: They cast a wide net when they're recruiting. It's really

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Speaker 1: through that assessment process that they find out who the

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Speaker 1: best candidates will be.

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Speaker 2: And so then if the best candidates are different depending

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Speaker 2: on what job they're being recruited for.

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Speaker 1: Correct, got it.

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Speaker 2: So you may need to be a really good luggage

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Speaker 2: manufacturer if you're trying to get concealed apartments departments in

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Speaker 2: your bags. Okay, got it. Now you mentioned that the

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Speaker 2: CIA is like an ideological institution. Why don't you frame

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Speaker 2: up for us what the CIA is.

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Speaker 1: CIA is the central hub of intelligence collection and assessment

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Speaker 1: for the executive branch, meaning the President, the head of

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Speaker 1: the exec The head executive the United States has his

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Speaker 1: own dedicated intelligence capacity in the CIA, and they're called

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Speaker 1: central Intelligence because the other members of the intelligence community.

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Speaker 1: They're about eighteen other agencies all feed their raw intelligence

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Speaker 1: into CIA. CIA then processes that raw intelligence into what's

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Speaker 1: called finished intelligence, and then publishes that finished intelligence to

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Speaker 1: the President. In addition to working as a central repository

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Speaker 1: for the entire intelligence community, CIA is also one of

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Speaker 1: the only intelligence communities given theory to collect what's known

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Speaker 1: as human intelligence or human human is when a person

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Speaker 1: like me or you meets with another human being to

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Speaker 1: steal that person's secrets, either through elicitation, through a formal agreement,

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Speaker 1: through some act of digital or technical collection, whatever else

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Speaker 1: it might be. Most of the other agencies like NSA

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Speaker 1: or NRO, they're collecting signals or they're connecting radio transmissions,

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Speaker 1: so they're actually picking up pieces of paper or using

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Speaker 1: imagery from a satellite to glean intelligence. Those are all

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Speaker 1: different types of intelligence, different types of int, but human

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Speaker 1: int or human intelligence is one of the most dangerous

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Speaker 1: and most expensive types of intelligence to collect, which is

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Speaker 1: why very few organizations get to execute.

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Speaker 2: And in that you wouldn't require you wouldn't call the

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Speaker 2: FBI an intelligence agency. They're more like part of the

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Speaker 2: Justice Department, correct, because they're obviously doing person to person.

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Speaker 1: Correct their law enforcement. While FBI does have an intel

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Speaker 1: telligence capability. Their intelligence capability is what's known as counter intelligence,

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Speaker 1: meaning they're combating intelligence officers from foreign countries who are

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Speaker 1: trying to steal secrets from the United States. The intelligence,

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Speaker 1: as you would imagine the intelligence capability of FBI, is

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Speaker 1: really focused on criminal investigations. It's more of an investigatory

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Speaker 1: or interrogation based intelligence collection, which is not clandestine nature.

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Speaker 1: You know when you're being interrogated, you know when you're

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Speaker 1: being investigated, it's a disclosure, whereas when you're actually being

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Speaker 1: collected upon clandestinely, you are not aware that your secrets

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Speaker 1: are being collected.

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Speaker 2: Got it. So it's sort of like I didn't really

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Speaker 2: understand that. So it's a repository of all the collection

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Speaker 2: information that's collected and then sort of working for the

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Speaker 2: executive branch at the highest level of clearance, the President,

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Speaker 2: the executive branch, et cetera. You didn't say it's a

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Speaker 2: government organization.

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Speaker 1: No, I thought I did. It is a government organism.

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Speaker 2: It is, so it is a division. It is a

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Speaker 2: part of the US government.

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Speaker 1: It's not under the executive branch.

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Speaker 2: The executive branch, correct.

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Speaker 1: Which is important to understand and most people don't recognize

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Speaker 1: that there are three branches in governments. Those three branches

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Speaker 1: are supposed to have checks and balances over each other,

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Speaker 1: but they're also supposed to work independently. The CIA does

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Speaker 1: not work for the American people. It does not work

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Speaker 1: for the legislative branch. I don't know why people think

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Speaker 1: that it should, or people have the expectation that it's

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Speaker 1: there to support the American people. The CIA is not

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Speaker 1: there for the American people. The CIA is there for

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Speaker 1: the president for the matters of national security that command

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Speaker 1: the executive's attention. If you don't like the executive, CIA

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Speaker 1: doesn't care. Their job is to support the executive. This

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Speaker 1: is what happened with the Trump administration in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: When the CIA did not cooperate with the executive in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the executive said, well, to hell with you.

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Speaker 1: All of your funding, all of your utility, all of

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Speaker 1: your value is here for me. So if you're not

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Speaker 1: going to listen to me, then I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: use you. And that's why from twenty sixteen to twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty there was all this constert nation between Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and CIA. What people are concerned about in the new

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Speaker 1: election in twenty twenty four is the same thing happening again,

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Speaker 1: even worse now that Donald Trump has been convicted in

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Speaker 1: New York. People are afraid that he's going to somehow

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Speaker 1: use the CIA under his executive privilege to essentially become

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Speaker 1: a clearinghouse for working against his internal domestic opponents.

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Speaker 2: Sort of like we've already seen. But that's a whole

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Speaker 2: nother story. Well, we'll come back to that maybe a

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Speaker 2: little bit later. But so it is a government organization.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you if it's maybe somewhat

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Speaker 2: of a rogue government institution, which you kind of already

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Speaker 2: said it was in the instance. It wasn't working directly

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Speaker 2: with the executive in that example.

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Speaker 1: So it's there. It serves at the behest of the executive.

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Speaker 1: It's important to understand, and I want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that that I say this clearly. CIA has no rogue capabilities.

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Speaker 1: It operates under a set of legislative authorities. Those legislative

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Speaker 1: authorities are what controls it, keeps it in check and

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Speaker 1: balance with the legislative and the judicial branches. Right, it

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Speaker 1: can't do what it wants. If it tries to do

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Speaker 1: what it wants, the legislative or the judicial branch will

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Speaker 1: come after it when it chooses to not support the president.

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Speaker 1: Meaning when a senior executives at CIA are saying the

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Speaker 1: president is a Russian collaborator. What happened. There was no

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Speaker 1: legislative or judicial impact there. The president just chose to

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Speaker 1: not use CIA. That was his discretion, his direction. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't something that CIA did. They said, hey, you're our

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Speaker 1: executive and we think that you're a Russian spy, and

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Speaker 1: he said, I'm not going to use you. Then it's

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Speaker 1: the same thing that happens if your plumber says I

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Speaker 1: don't like the way you look at me, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, plumber, I'm not going to use you. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go to some other plumber instead.

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Speaker 2: But they still did work, They still did the plump

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Speaker 2: and that example, the plumber just doesn't come to work

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Speaker 2: at my house, but in this case, the CIA was

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Speaker 2: still doing work.

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Speaker 1: Or you use the plumber for the really shit jobs,

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Speaker 1: and that's essentially what CIA did from twenty sixteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Just kind of got put on the low level stuff.

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Speaker 2: Got it? Nothing super important? All right, So let's dig

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Speaker 2: into some bigger now we sort of set the stage

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Speaker 2: on what the CI is, and I want to kind

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Speaker 2: of what I'm thinking, maybe more surface level, and we'll

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Speaker 2: get to the bigger ones. I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: the interviews that you've done have been World War three,

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Speaker 2: so we'll definitely get there, but I want to kind

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Speaker 2: of see if we can build this up a little bit.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of trends that I'm seeing happening in

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Speaker 2: the world, and I think we can get to this.

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Speaker 2: But back to the World War three, it seems like

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Speaker 2: things are global at this point, so we're not on

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Speaker 2: an island, you know, We're not in a vacuum over here.

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Speaker 2: So one of the first things I want to start

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Speaker 2: with is immigration. And we have immigration obviously all around

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Speaker 2: the world happening in a really big way. And it

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Speaker 2: started really in Europe, it seemed like, and now obviously

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Speaker 2: it's here in the United States whatever, seven eight million,

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Speaker 2: you know, people are coming across the borders. The first

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Speaker 2: thing I'd ask, and this is I'm sure this is

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Speaker 2: an easy answer for you, but are you familiar with

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Speaker 2: the cloud pivot strategy?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh, you're not, oh, because that's like all over TV

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Speaker 2: in regards to immigration. So at Columbia, which is where

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Speaker 2: most of the you know, Obama went to school, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of Anthony Blincoln went to school, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: They had two professors there, Cloward and Piven, and they

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Speaker 2: created a strategy called the Cloud and Pivot strategy, and

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Speaker 2: they taught it at Columbia. And basically the premise of

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Speaker 2: the strategy that they taught to all of these leaders

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Speaker 2: that were there was that the way that you take

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Speaker 2: down a capitalist system is to call their bluff and

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Speaker 2: basically overwhelm the system. And so if we could just

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Speaker 2: put as many people as we can onto welfare, we

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Speaker 2: can just completely overwhelm the system and crash it down.

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Speaker 2: So you see this being referenced a lot. You're not

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Speaker 2: familiar with this. I want ask you to do too

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Speaker 2: deeply into that. But let's just talk about immigration. It

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Speaker 2: seems like there's certainly something going on that would overwhelm

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Speaker 2: the system if you will potentially change the voting base,

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Speaker 2: potentially caused disruption in cities, things like that. I guess

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Speaker 2: what is your take on that? Would you agree with that?

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Speaker 1: So I would not agree with that. What I would

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Speaker 1: say is, first to keep in mind that immigration is

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Speaker 1: a uniquely democratic problem, right, it's a uniquely socialist democratic opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Most countries, they have the migration of people, but they

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Speaker 1: don't have a legal way of immigrating a person into

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Speaker 1: that country. That's why you have so many population issues

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Speaker 1: happening across Asia. That's why you have fifdoms and warlords

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Speaker 1: in Africa, because if you're from one country, you can't

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Speaker 1: just go to another country, and you certainly can't go

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Speaker 1: to that country and become a citizen of that country

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Speaker 1: and then be taken care of by the welfare system

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Speaker 1: of that country. That's something that really only exists between

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Speaker 1: Europe and the United States because we are this blend

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Speaker 1: of socialist democracy. Right. But then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: you have the fact that the United States is a

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Speaker 1: melting pot. So ideologically we were built on the backs

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Speaker 1: of immigrants. Well now and really since like the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: what we have found is that we don't really want

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Speaker 1: all immigrants, and that's become this challenge that the United

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Speaker 1: States fundamentally has to deal with. We we want skilled immigrants,

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Speaker 1: we don't want unskilled immigrants. We want immigrants from countries

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Speaker 1: that have ties to wealth. We don't want poor immigrants.

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Speaker 1: We want immigrants that come in with education. We want

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Speaker 1: to reject immigrants that don't have education. Those pragmatic decisions

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Speaker 1: fly in the face of our ideology. That's not what

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Speaker 1: we're taught in elementary school, right, So what we have

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Speaker 1: is this question where we have to decide what we're

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Speaker 1: going to be when we grow up. Everything else about

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Speaker 1: flooding the system and gerrymandering and that's all conspiracy talk, like,

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Speaker 1: are we trying to turn our country into something that

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Speaker 1: it isn't. No, we are very realistically struggling with how

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Speaker 1: to get through adolescence. The United States is still a

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Speaker 1: young country, it's a young government, it's a young political experiment.

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Speaker 1: Why do we think we have it figured out? Why

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Speaker 1: would we expect that our president or the Congress or

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Speaker 1: the Senate has it figured out. There's no reason to

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Speaker 1: believe that. We're like, we're less than three hundred years old.

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Speaker 1: We're an adolescent. This is this is middle school, sweatpants

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Speaker 1: walking to art class with an erection for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Remember that how fucking horrible middle school was. That's where

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Speaker 1: we are as a country right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, if we go back to you said, Europe,

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Speaker 2: which is a lot older obviously, and you already said

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Speaker 2: they have the same problem with immigration going on over there.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think, you know, I to your point,

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Speaker 2: we need immigration, I mean, especially with population declined. I mean,

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Speaker 2: immigration is more important than ever. But at the same point,

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Speaker 2: it needs to be somewhat controlled, you would think, especially

437
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 2: because of being a welfare state. If it wasn't a

438
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: welfare state, sure, let everybody come make their way. But

439
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: when you're gonna put everybody on the on the welfare state,

440
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: it becomes a problem. But going back to Europe for example,

441
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: we've been seeing this going on for about a decade now,

442
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: and we've seen the way it's really changed a lot

443
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: of countries, UK, Sweden, you know, a lot of these,

444
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 2: even France, and which I think we'll get to. A

445
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 2: lot of this right wing swing that we're seeing happening

446
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 2: all over the world is cause it's like a pendulum,

447
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: right we take things too far, people push them back

448
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 2: the other way. But a lot of this seemingly happened

449
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: from maybe two standpoints, and I could be completely wrong,

450
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 2: you know, feel free to obviously challenges, but we had

451
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: a lot of disruption in the Middle East, you know,

452
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: the destruction of Syria, et cetera. Under you know, some

453
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 2: NGOs like open societies, and then they change the sort

454
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 2: of rules around immigration and sort of start flooding these

455
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: people into these areas. So seemingly when you sort of

456
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: destroy a place and send people up and then change

457
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: the laws to accept them in, it seems a little

458
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: more intentional than just random number one and number two,

459
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 2: I would just throw out. It would be also that

460
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: you know, per immigration policies, I mean even the United States,

461
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: but let's focus on Europe for now. But these nations

462
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: accept lots of immigrants, I believe the United States except

463
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: more immigrants in a nation on Earth, but at some point,

464
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: like it should be somewhat limited. So there's it's a

465
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: big messy, a big messy issue. But like, are we

466
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: trying to force as many not force, but really bait

467
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: as many people in as possible or is it something

468
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: being done a little bit more managed, I guess is

469
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: the way I look at it.

470
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: So I don't think that for sure, I would agree

471
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 1: that there's a mismanagement in terms of immigration policy. It changes,

472
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: it's confusing, it's inconsistent, it's unpredictable. So I wouldn't say

473
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: for a second that we have immigration planned or effectively

474
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: locked down, right, But at the same time, I also

475
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that there's something nefarious about the process. I mean,

476
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: just think about how complicated and difficult it would be

477
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: to change the fate or the course or the political

478
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: base of a country by bringing in an unknown large

479
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: body of people. If anything, what I would say is

480
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: it's much easier to change the political base five hundred

481
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: other ways rather than letting in a bunch of strangers.

482
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: I think what's happening is that when you look at

483
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: especially when you look at Europe, they are aspiring to

484
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: try to live by their own ideals as well, and

485
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 1: frankly speaking, they are worse at the ideals that surround

486
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: freedom and democracy than we are here in the United States.

487
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: France is a fantastic example. France does not have freedom

488
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: of religion. If you're Muslim, you cannot wear a hi

489
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: job right like it's it's illegal, and that's why they

490
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: have so many issues with fundamental Islam.

491
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: Right.

492
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: So here in the United States we actually have freedom

493
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: of religion. We have freedom of speech here in the

494
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: United States. There are some countries that don't have freedom

495
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: of speech as defined the way that we define it,

496
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: and you know, all across Europe there's still we have

497
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: to remember that Europe is a series of states, states

498
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: meaning independent nations, not states like our United States. States

499
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: are being independent nations that all have their own legal systems,

500
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: and then they also voluntarily fall under a larger European

501
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: legal system. So it's quite complicated over there. That to

502
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: think that they are changing their population base in order

503
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: to change their politics is just It's a low probability,

504
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: high complexity situation. It goes in the face of Okham's razor,

505
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: which demands that the simplest solution is obvious is oftentimes

506
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: the answer. So it just doesn't make sense to me

507
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: to think that that would be the direction of country

508
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: would go when it could find many easier, cheaper solutions

509
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: for changing their political outlooks.

510
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 2: You said a word that I'd like to dig into.

511
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: You said that they right, And so that's the question, like,

512
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: who are they right? We get asked that question all

513
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: the time I speak about money and finance, clubout, macroeconomics

514
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: and bitcoin, and so it's always they they won't allow that,

515
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: they won't give up control, right, So it's like, who

516
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: are they? So when you say they. You said that word,

517
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: but I don't look at this as like a monolith.

518
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: There's like a lot, a lot of different interested parties

519
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: in that. So you said, like, they wouldn't do this,

520
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 2: there's easier way. So who would you say, are they whoever?

521
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: Whoever the fear like, whoever people fear is in power,

522
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: whether people believe it's a shadow government, or whether people

523
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: believe it's a conglomerate of executives, or whether people believe

524
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: it's just a bunch of invested politicians. They is often

525
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: is often up to the beholder. Right, Beauty lies in

526
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: the eyes of the beholder. They is defined by the

527
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: eyes of the beholder. What I find is funny and

528
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: what I try to, you know, encourage people to understand

529
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: is they can be anybody as long as there's a

530
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: common set of shared priorities. Right, You and I could

531
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: be they if we were talking about entrepreneurs, because we

532
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: have shared priorities as an entrepreneur. But we may not

533
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: be they if we're talking about the parents of five

534
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: year olds, because if you don't have a five year old,

535
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: then you're not then you're not part of the they

536
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: that I am right, and you have a fifteen year old.

537
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: I don't, so I have no idea what it's like

538
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: to raise a teenager, So I can't be part of that.

539
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

540
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: But regardless human beings, because of our survival instincts, doesn't

541
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: matter how much money we make, doesn't matter how successful

542
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: we are, it doesn't matter our age. We're wired with

543
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: these these survival instincts that demand that everything around us

544
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: be bucketed into one of two columns. It's either friend

545
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: or threat, right, essentially, non threat or threat. That's how

546
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: we see everything around us. If we don't know for

547
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: sure that it's a non threat, guess what we see it.

548
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: As a threat a threat.

549
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: So we're constantly trying to create this dichotomy around us

550
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: a threat, non threat. That's why I mean, if you've

551
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: got friends, or if you have a wife or a girlfriend,

552
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: they or a spouse or a boyfriend or whatever else,

553
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: you will hear them. You will watch them be nice

554
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: to somebody they don't like. That is them responding to

555
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: a threat. And then sometimes you'll also watch them be

556
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: mean to somebody they do care about. Well, that's because

557
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: they're comfortable with that person is a non threat, right.

558
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: It's just the way that we view the world cognitively

559
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: so that we can figure out how to survive inside it.

560
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know this is stuff you teach for your

561
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: everyday spy. So I'm excited to get into some of

562
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: that with you. Some of these mental frameworks that we

563
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: can use, I think are probably more important than ever

564
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: that we learned some of these things. So I'm super

565
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: excited to dig into some of that. But just kind

566
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: of pushing on this a little bit. So back to

567
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: who are they? We saw that we have just over

568
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: the weekend we had the EU had all these different

569
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: you know, all these different votes that went through, and

570
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: we're seeing this like massive, like right wing swing they

571
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 2: call it whatever right and left even mean anymore. At

572
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: this point, Macron's party in France got absolutely whooped the

573
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 2: Lapenz party beat them by double the votes. But really

574
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: this right wing swim see seems to be a lot

575
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 2: of it's populism for lots of different areas, Green movement

576
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: for sure. But then immigration, I think is one of those.

577
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: So back to who are they? So there's certainly a

578
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: lot of people in these governments who want to bring

579
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: in as many immigrants as they possibly can, and then

580
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: there's some people that don't want the immigrants to continue,

581
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: So that's who are they. So I think it seems

582
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: pretty evident that there are people who want this to happen.

583
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: They're actively trying, Like in some of these countries like

584
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: Poland for example, they didn't have it and now they're

585
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: trying to force them to take the immigrants. Right, So

586
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: they're certainly they that want that. And back to the

587
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: point of easier ways to change the government, Well, in

588
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: the UK now they have a you know, a pro

589
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: h you know, they've they've changed the government more to

590
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: be you know, Muslim if you will. Well, and we've

591
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: seen the same thing happening in Nited States. So it

592
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: does work.

593
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: And are you talking about immigrants or refugees again? Immigrants

594
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: are people who voluntarily try to go from one country

595
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: to another country to belong to that country. Refugees are

596
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: groups of people that come from war torn countries who

597
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: are brought who are invited into neutral or friendly countries

598
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: in order to reduce the stress and death count of

599
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: foreign countries.

600
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: Right. Well, back to the word ideologies, right, So it's

601
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: like I think one thing that I see is like

602
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: maybe a mainstream narrative sort of wants to divide us

603
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: on identity at Indie politics if you will, right where,

604
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't think we align on identities like black, straight, whatever,

605
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's more like based off of value. So

606
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: it's more like ideology versus geography. So I think when

607
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: you bring in a lot of Muslims, whether they came

608
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: in because of immigration or migrants or whatever, like, they

609
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: still share that ideology and it still changes the makeup

610
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: of that people.

611
00:29:54,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: There, Meaning that incoming refugees from an Islamic country would

612
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: change the makeup of a non Islamic country when they

613
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: resettle there.

614
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: Yep, And that's what we're seeing.

615
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: I would definitely debate that. I would most certainly debate

616
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: that because you're talking about two things that are important

617
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: percenting One, migrant populations from war torn countries. Refugee populations

618
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: are generally very small, right, even if you're talking about

619
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: tens of thousands coming into a country with hundreds of millions,

620
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: it's very small in comparison. And then second to that,

621
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: most migrant policies, like most of these refugees aren't put

622
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: into places where there's an existing diaspora of their own

623
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: like minded people. They're dropped into the middle of places

624
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: that are almost conservative of the natural home country because

625
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: they're supposed to They're supposed to assimilate into the country

626
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: where they're going. So like here in the United States,

627
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: most foreign refugees end up in the places in America

628
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: nobody wants to go because it's just a hard place

629
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: to live, like the cold as parts of Michigan or Wisconsin.

630
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: They go to rural Pennsylvania, they go to Ohio and Kentucky,

631
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: they go to Nebraska. It's not like they go to

632
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: New York where they're all dropped into a precinct that's

633
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: heavily Islamic. I think it's important to understand this because

634
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: we must resist the temptation for Islamophobia. There is nothing

635
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: wrong with Islam. If anything, the fact that there are

636
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: refugees coming from countries where there's war, and that war

637
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: is in any way based on their religious beliefs. These

638
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: are people coming to a country that has freedom of religion.

639
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: If we don't hold to our respect and appreciation for

640
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: freedom of religion, we're transforming the ideology of the United States.

641
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: We also have to remember that our rule of law

642
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: says that people are innocent until proven guilty. So to

643
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: assume that immigrants are coming here just because they're Islamic

644
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: and then thinking that they're fundamentally changing our ideology and

645
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: that's some kind of strategy behind that that's intentional, goes

646
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: against this whole idea of what our principles are in

647
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: terms of innocent until proven guilty and freedom of religion.

648
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: I say that because you're totally right. The mainstream, especially

649
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: conservative mainstream, is being shaped to believe that there's something

650
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: dangerous or inherently wrong with Muslims. There is nothing further

651
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: from the truth. You can't trust fundamentalists, but you can't

652
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: trust a fundamentalist Mormon or a fundamentalist Christian. They're just

653
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: as dangerous as a fundamentalist Muslim. So don't mistake the

654
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: extremes with the primary thrust of any religion. And we

655
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: are we become dangerously close to undermining our own principles

656
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: as a country when we let the narrative of a

657
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: media entity, which is the mainstream media, when we let

658
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: them shape the way that we view information.

659
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm certainly not trying to go towards Islamophobia

660
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm just trying to try understand who are

661
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: they and what's happening around the world, and then we'll

662
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: bring it back to this potential World War three type

663
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: of a thing. And you know, I think ideologies matter,

664
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: but yeah, certainly not against one one party or another

665
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: in regards to that. And of course I'm for all

666
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: about religious freedom. Okay, So then we have that. Now,

667
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: then we do have this right wing swing, if you will,

668
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: and it's not just in the US. And I really

669
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: look at it as twenty sixteen sort of being the

670
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: start of this pendulum swinging back because we had Brexit,

671
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: that happened, Trump got elected, Greece had like their referendums,

672
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 2: and so we really started seeing this like momentum shift.

673
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: But now, just like I said, over this weekend in

674
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: France got just completely obliterated, a Macron just got completely

675
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: stump stunned, Germany, Austria, all through the EU, we're seeing

676
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: that happen. And it certainly seems as like I said,

677
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: this pendulum swinging back right. It's like maybe it's gone

678
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: too far one way and it's starting to swing back

679
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: for right or wrong. It just this seems to be

680
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: what's happening, which maybe just further continues to sort of

681
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: separate and people start taking their sides.

682
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I would not categorize it as a

683
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: right wing swing. I understand that the media category.

684
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: I don't like the writer left labels either, but yeah,

685
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: but what it.

686
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: For sure is is a nationalist swing right and nationalism.

687
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: Here in the United States, it's we're in a country

688
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: where it's okay, where it's almost encouraged to be nationalistic

689
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: because we are the United States of America. We're one

690
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: country made of fifty states, right, So for here, if

691
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: you're whether you're Kentuckian or whether you're Nebraskan, or whether

692
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: you're Fluoridian, you're still American. So we pride ourselves on

693
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: being unified, on being nationalist. In Europe, nationalism is kind

694
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: of a naughty word because you're part of the European Union.

695
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: So you've got to be European before you're French. You've

696
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: got to be European before you're Spanish, you got to

697
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: be European before you're British. Well, what's happened is, especially

698
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: in the NATO countries, and especially since invasion of Ukraine,

699
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: NATO countries have realized that being European doesn't always put

700
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: your country's best interests first, right, and especially in Europe,

701
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: where they've got this Russian juggernaut that's continuing to threaten

702
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, Europe. They're NATO's taking its orders from the

703
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: United States, who's geographically separated from Europe altogether. Right, So

704
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you see French and Germans and

705
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: Polish and Lithuanians and Romanians asking themselves a question like,

706
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: wait a second, does Europe come first? Or should Romania

707
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: come first? Does Europe come first? Or should Germany come first?

708
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: And we've seen over the last two to three years

709
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: the countries coming out more and more disagreeing with the

710
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: United States, disagreeing with the Biden administration, disagreeing with the

711
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: US influence in NATO, and taking a different stance. And

712
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: that became this fertile ground for like you said, a

713
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: pendulum swing back towards nationalism, where now the French want

714
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: to be French first, in European second. As Americans, it's

715
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: kind of hard to disagree with.

716
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: Them unless you're in Texas. Yeah, you're in Texta. You

717
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 2: want to be in Textan first, right, and then.

718
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: They have the rights of secessions here. Yeah, they've retained that, right.

719
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So but yeah, I would exactly agree with that.

720
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: And like I said, even go back to twenty sixteen,

721
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: which is when Brexit said, hey, we don't want to

722
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: do that, or they did the Brexit to say we

723
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 2: don't want to be part of that anymore. And so

724
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: to your point, right, and the EU is relatively new.

725
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: You talk about the USB and the EU is I mean,

726
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: what is the EU even, right? And then when you

727
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: look at it from a bunch of different angles, and

728
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: then you look at it from like an economic standpoint,

729
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: like Germany has been carrying the you know, the economic

730
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: engine of all up Europe, and then you have the

731
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: pigs nations down south that can't you know, can't contribute,

732
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: and so you can start to see a lot of

733
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: reasons why they may not like that. Would you say,

734
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: just so we're kind of clear on terms for everybody listening,

735
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: we talk about nationalistic, would you also consider that populist?

736
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 2: And if so, what how do you define those?

737
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: Yeah? So populist is whatever is popular at the time.

738
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: So populist movements can often be liberal or conservative. They're

739
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: just whatever's popular at the time. I mean, look at

740
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: Latin America. Latin America is right now going through a

741
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: pink wave. They're becoming more socialist, whereas what you're saying, yeah,

742
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: what you're saying in Europe is the opposite. They're becoming

743
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: more independent. Right, So they're both populist movements because they're

744
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: popular and they're gaining and momentum, whereas nationalist very much

745
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: means of the nation. You put the nation first. The

746
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: best way to think of that is we pledge allegiance

747
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: to a flag, the flag of our country always, right.

748
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: There are some countries in the world that have their

749
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: national flag and their Union flag flying side by side.

750
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: Were in the United States, we don't do that. So

751
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: when you put your country first, that's nationalist. Then there's

752
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: of course socialists or liberal movements, and those are when

753
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: you put society first or the common good first. And

754
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: I mean Europe for a long time has been going

755
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: down that road, and the United States has been trying

756
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: to mimic Europe in a lot of their policies and

757
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: going down the socialist road. A big part of what changed,

758
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I would argue that that even more than

759
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, what really changed the world's attitude towards nationalism

760
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: was the response to COVID nineteen when COVID first hit,

761
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: you saw a lot of countries not know how to respond,

762
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: and then you saw the United States take some fairly

763
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: decisive action. And then countries that seconded the United States

764
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: then just replicated the US response. When they replicated the

765
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: US response to COVID, they then replicated all the same

766
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: economic problems that the United States caused with their response

767
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: to COVID. So then you started seeing inflation worldwide. Then

768
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: you started seeing globalization become challenging worldwide. You saw supply

769
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,479
Speaker 1: chain challenges worldwide. You saw commerce come to a halt.

770
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: You saw bureaucracy and stimulus all get out of control.

771
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: That made people wonder, is it really right to just

772
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: do what everybody says you should do for society especially

773
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: is more and more science came out about COVID, We

774
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: started to understand more and more what it was. We

775
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: started to understand the mistakes in the policies that we

776
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: put in place in responding to COVID. And even still

777
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 1: to this day, people don't acknowledge that they made bad

778
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: decisions about their policies about COVID. Instead, they just moved

779
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: on to the next distraction, which a very convenient distraction

780
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: was Russia invading Ukraine. All of a sudden, COVID wasn't

781
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: a headline anymore. Yeah, right. That was really what shifted

782
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: a lot of these things because people started seeing maybe

783
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: following the United States, who was doing what the United

784
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: States does, isn't in our best interest, and maybe being

785
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: part of the larger collective isn't in our best interest

786
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: because we're hurting our own people, in our own country

787
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: and our own national economy in order to fit into

788
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: this larger conglomerate that doesn't actually help us, that's hurts

789
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: us in many cases. That's what Europe, I think, is

790
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: waking up to. And unfortunately the United States. The United

791
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: States has always been very good about not making itself

792
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: dependent on anybody else. Now we're seeing that we're losing

793
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: our ability to manipulate the rest of the world because

794
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: world is now waking up to the fact that they

795
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: have been manipulated. They've been shaped under this American ideology

796
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: for such a long time that now in the tech

797
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: revolution and the information era that we're in, people are

798
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: discovering their own independent ideas again. And as much as

799
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 1: we espouse independence as a country, we really only mean

800
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: we want freedom and independence for Americans. The United States

801
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: has no interest in freedom or independence for other countries.

802
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: We really only promise.

803
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: And we've been export in democracy for years.

804
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: What are you talking about, Yeah, exactly, we've exported the

805
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: dependency on the United States.

806
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: We're going to get to that. We're going to get

807
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: to that. We're going to get to that. But so, okay,

808
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: So populism could be either nationalism or socialism. It's just

809
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: whatever's pop correct, whereas nationalism is. But nationalism is also

810
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 2: like America first or Germany first, but it could also

811
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: be Germany first as a socialist or communist nation, correct,

812
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: because it puts the nation, so it puts the nation first.

813
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 2: But it's so there's a lot of overlapping, I guess,

814
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: if you will.

815
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: And that's what's wrong with all the isms, right. Yeah.

816
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: I wrote a book called the Uncommunist Manifesto, and it

817
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: was it wasn't a point by point rebuttal of the

818
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: Communist Manifesto, but it was just the same basic four

819
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: chapters that covered the same basic topics. But I think

820
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: written from a new lens. Maybe if Marx was born today,

821
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: he'd see the world differently. Maybe not, but you know,

822
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: one of the things. I have a diagram in the

823
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: book and I basically show like all of politics being

824
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: on one side, and so you sort of have everything

825
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: on one side, and then you have whatever. Fascism and

826
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: socialism are on opposite ends. But they're all collectivism, right,

827
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 2: It's all collectivism is ideas. And then really like over here,

828
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: I think then we have sort of like decentralized systems.

829
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: I would put bitcoin over there. I put capitalism over there,

830
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: which I think is an emergent system. It's not it's

831
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: not politics. It's like little kids in preschool or trading

832
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 2: chips and crackers, like this is what we do, right, right,

833
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: But anyway, all of those isms, they're just different flavors

834
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: of like of a different thing. But so going back

835
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: to this, so then would you say that then popular

836
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: would be and nationalism could both be like democracy?

837
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I would say both of those could be democracies,

838
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: depending on whether or not the nationalist ideal is for

839
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: democracy like you see here in the United States.

840
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: So if the nationalism wants a dictator of a communist, then

841
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: obviously is not democracy.

842
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's what you have. You have an incredible

843
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 1: amount of nationalism in China, for a centralized communist party,

844
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: right right. You have an incredible amount of nationalism in

845
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: North Korea for what is essentially a god ordained family

846
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: of rulers, right right. But they're still nationalistic. They still

847
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: put the country first and their system of managing that country.

848
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: And that could also be populism then too.

849
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: The only reason that those autocracies are harder to claim

850
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: populism because there's no there is no alternative, right, Like,

851
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: populism defines something has to be popular. In order for

852
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: something to be popular, that means it has to be

853
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: transcend has to change, Okay, but there's no change in autocracy.

854
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: I'm just curious because these definitions they're they're they're they're hard,

855
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 2: and I think they get misrepresented today. In back to

856
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: my book, which I co wrote with Oxfetski, by the way,

857
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: we open the book with definitions before we even get

858
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 2: to the book. Let's just get clear on the words

859
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: that we're going to use. So I try to like

860
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: try to define those. But I think about today and

861
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: sort of like the governments that we have all throughout

862
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: Europe that see this this shift, right, swift whatever they

863
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 2: want to call it in the media and even in

864
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: the United States. They almost talk about populism as being

865
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: a bad thing, But in a democracy, wouldn't that be

866
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: a good thing? Right? That's the voice of the people

867
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: are demonstrating or voicing what it is that they want.

868
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: When it's executed in a way that's informed and responsible, there's.

869
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with post or two key words.

870
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: But if it's not informed and it's not responsible, if

871
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: it's built on propaganda and empty promises, then you're just

872
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: feeding people sugar to get them to take action. It's

873
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: very different than when you force people to eat their

874
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: spinach and see it for what it really is.

875
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: Right.

876
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: So the populism for the conservative nationalists bases that we're

877
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: seeing in Europe, that's a lot of spinach and broccoli

878
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: that Europeans are eating and realizing that they need to

879
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: pick a different path. Whereas what we see here oftentimes

880
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: in the United States, especially in these upcoming months to the

881
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: lead up of the election, with the hate ads and

882
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: with the promises that are empty, like that's that's a

883
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: lot of sugar that we're about to start seeing.

884
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to come back to that, responsible and

885
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: informed decisions. We're going to come back to that in

886
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: a minute. But going down, continuing down this path, then

887
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 2: one of the things that I see, and being from

888
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: the CIA, you know this way better than I do.

889
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 2: But I want to talk about color revolutions. And China

890
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: had put out one of their senior advisors from some ministry.

891
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: The other had put out a piece of document, and

892
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: I think even President G had said that, you know,

893
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: the US is behind most of these color revolutions. This

894
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: report said there was at least like fifty color revolutions,

895
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: and I think the IRIS has claimed like seven of them.

896
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: The Rose Revolution, the Orange Revolution, the Tulip Revolution, the

897
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: Arab Spring, et cetera, et cetera. And then mister G

898
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: said that President she said that we should prevent this

899
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: was just last year he said this with the putin

900
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: that we should prevent external forces from instigating a color revolution,

901
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: and so these things happen. It seems like the CI

902
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: has admitted to at least seven of the fifty. China

903
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 2: seems to think that the US is behind them. Whether

904
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: that's truth or not. Sometimes whatever people's perception is dangerous

905
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: coming from the CIA. I guess what's your take on that?

906
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: So you have to understand that that covert influence, which

907
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: is what we're talking about here. The idea that there's

908
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: a revolution of any type and that there's some effort

909
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: to shape that revolution for some sort of outcome that's

910
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: influencing so and then doing so without being caught would

911
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: be covert influence. One of the fundamental truths of covert

912
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: influence is that you don't create something out of nothing.

913
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: It's too high risk, it's too stoke the flame. You

914
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: have to stoke a flame that's already there. Right, so

915
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 1: there has to even if it's just an ember, there

916
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: has to be something already there, and then all you

917
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: do is you add fuel to the fire. The United

918
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: States has been an expert in COVID influence long before

919
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: we were even the United States, right back when we

920
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: were still just colonies.

921
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure this goes back to the beginning of empires,

922
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: I mean Roman Empire.

923
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: This goes back to Egypt, right ancient Egypt. So the

924
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: most efficient and most effective way to carry out COVID

925
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: influence is to find two sides that are already in

926
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: conflict and then feed them both simultaneously. Because what's going

927
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: to happen is one of the two flames will gain

928
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: popularity and it will it will grow on its own.

929
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: You don't have to be vested in one outcome or

930
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: the other. You just have to be vested in the

931
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: chaos and the change that's guaranteed to come because of

932
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: the outcome. So Arab Spring is a fantastic example. We

933
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: didn't need to have a specific outcome that we wanted.

934
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: We just needed to contribute to the narrative about the

935
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: Arab Spring. And here's what's fascinating about the United States.

936
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: We can tribute to the narrative without it even being

937
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: intentionally collected and derived from the US government because our

938
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: media is a profit oriented institution organization. Right, So media

939
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: is trying to make money as a business. Therefore they

940
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: will speak like passionately alarmist phraseology. Right. They will use

941
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 1: words that instigate a response from their own user base.

942
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: So now you're actively feeding the fire. Just if you

943
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: just look at the headlines and Fox News and CNN,

944
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: you are constantly seeing influence all the time, just media

945
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: narrative trying to get people to click. But that rhetoric

946
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: just it encourages more and more derision and division. That's

947
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: essentially what COVID influence is. The only difference is COVID

948
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: influence is done through a covert manner so that the

949
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: hands of the US government can't be placed in there.

950
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: So when you hear the CIA acknowledge that they were

951
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: actively involved in however many of these, that means they're

952
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: acknowledging that they participated in one of the things that

953
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: people do. You know the purpose of the Green Berets

954
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,959
Speaker 1: the US Army. Green Berets are special operations.

955
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 2: Union, not specifically.

956
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: Most people don't. The sole purpose of the Green Berets

957
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: is to raise gorilla indigenous forces to fight against the establishments.

958
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: That's what the Green Berets do. So we have an

959
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: entire and that's open, that's public information. So if you

960
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: know that we have specially trained special operators in the

961
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 1: US Army whose exclusive job is is to raise guerrilla forces,

962
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 1: are you surprised at all to hear that the CIA

963
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: is also involved in every revolution around the world.

964
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised. There might be some people listening. I've

965
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: been down to Costa Rica and they have one of

966
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: the planes that was being used in the Iran Contra deal,

967
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: and they've set it up as like a bar restaurant

968
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: now and they have like the whole story. I guess

969
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: one crashed in Costa Rica and they have like the

970
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: whole story and the plaque and everything in there. So

971
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with some of the I don't know if

972
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: that was Green Breys, but they are certainly training gorilla

973
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: insurgents on the ground right, which they've done for a

974
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: long time. But would you frame up what a color

975
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: revolution is? I mean they there seems to be like

976
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: a kind of like a predefined like definition of what

977
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: a color revolution is.

978
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's funny because I actually, in the

979
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: formal doctrine of intelligence, color revolution doesn't exist.

980
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: To me.

981
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: That's a media term. To me, that's a term that

982
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: society has kind of hammered together on their own. We

983
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: have COVID influence, we have influenced campaigns, we have the

984
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: instigation of uprisings. We have you know, feeding insurgent or

985
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: gorilla forces. We have lots of terminology, but color revolution

986
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: is not one that exists in our lexicon.

987
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 2: There's been two books written about them. So. Norm Eisen

988
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 2: is the former ethic zar to President Obama. He wrote

989
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: a book called The Democracy Playbook, Preventing and Reversing Democratic Backsliding,

990
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: and in that he basically laid out. So he's sort

991
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: of known as like the author of the playbook of

992
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: a Color Revolutions, and he wrote a book. He wrote

993
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 2: a book. And then Michael McFowl he served as US

994
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: Ambassador of Russia from twenty twelve to twenty fourteen, and

995
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: he also wrote a book outlining what he did in

996
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: Ukraine and what he calls a color revolution as well.

997
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: So there's been two books. And to your point, it's

998
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: not a lexicon in the CIA, but the two architects

999
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: of it wrote a book, wrote both wrote their own books.

1000
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: And Michael mcfowll in his book he says it's a

1001
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: semi autocratic regime rather than a fully autocratic an unpopular

1002
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: incumbent note blanket negative coverage of that person like Trump,

1003
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 2: fake Pole's kind of thing. A united and organized opposition,

1004
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 2: so media, intel community, Hollywood, whatever, right, an ability to

1005
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: quickly drive home the point that voting results were falsified.

1006
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: And so we see this in like Belarus, like right,

1007
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 2: you see enough independent media to inform citizens of false,

1008
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: falsified votes. And then finally a political opposition capable of

1009
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: mobilizing tens of thousands of or more demonstrators. So that's

1010
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 2: sort of like what they call the color evolution playbook,

1011
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: if you will. And so you know, we see this,

1012
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: like I said in Belarus, we see this like happening

1013
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 2: all over it, like so seeds of descent. So people

1014
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: don't know if they could trust what's happening with the election,

1015
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 2: right have the media sort of like stoke the flames

1016
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: and whether this may be for profit or whatever. But

1017
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: like we get that going and then we kind of

1018
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 2: get like people unhappy on the street, whether it's over

1019
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 2: immigration or rich poor or whatever it is. So that

1020
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 2: seems to be what these these people have framed up.

1021
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: Which is funny. It's funny to me because first of all,

1022
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: what is an ethics zar. That's not a formal government title.

1023
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: Well, Obama created all the czars, right, so like he

1024
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 2: put zar this is like the it's this would be

1025
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 2: maybe what you call the deep state or the administrative state.

1026
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: But Obama appointed was it twenty fours, I don't know,

1027
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: over a dozen zars over independent industries and these were

1028
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: appointees by the executive branch. And it's it's a point

1029
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: a president Obama appointed ethic zar like Van Jones was

1030
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: Obama zar and Van Jones talks about something called the

1031
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: upside down. What is the bottom up, top down, bottom up,

1032
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: inside out approach, which is basically sort of the same,

1033
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: you know, Van Jones.

1034
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure no.

1035
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: Van Jones is a political commentator, you see him all

1036
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: over seeing, et cetera. But he was Obama Zar at

1037
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: the time as well. And anybody that wants to can

1038
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 2: just go on YouTube. You can see Van Jones talking

1039
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: about this, but he calls it a top down, bottom up,

1040
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: inside out approach. And what Van Jones said that we

1041
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: needed back when he was under Obama. Back then when

1042
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: Obama was preaching, you know, promising a fundamental transformation of America,

1043
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: Van Jones said, we needed a top down, bottom up,

1044
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: inside out. So the top down was we need to

1045
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 2: change the government. We need to get our appointees into

1046
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: the place of government to bottom up, as we have

1047
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: to take over the education system. If we can take

1048
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: over the education system, then we can bring people up

1049
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: with our ideology. And then finally, the inside out is

1050
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: we need to get the people so agitated in the

1051
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 2: middle that they're begging for a change. So there's dozens

1052
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: of YouTube videos of ban Jones preaching this but it's

1053
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 2: basically sort of the same playbook. So that's what azar is.

1054
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So it's an area I'm not familiar with.

1055
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: It smells a little conspiratorial to me, but that's that's

1056
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 1: me not knowing the information of what's available.

1057
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 2: Well, this is so this is just just for everybody listening.

1058
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: This is Norm Isisen. He was appointed by President Obama

1059
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 2: and he wrote a book called The Democracy Playbook Preventing

1060
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: University and Democratic black Sliding, backsliding, you know, with I've

1061
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 2: talked about like the World that Comic Forum and klau

1062
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: Schwab and I who typically say it's like, he wrote

1063
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 2: a book called The Great Reset. Just go read it.

1064
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 2: I don't typically like the quote from it because it

1065
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 2: sounds kind of like conspiratorial, but just read. They put

1066
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: books out, like read their books. And then Michael McFowl

1067
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: also served as US ambassador. He wrote a book like,

1068
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: just just read their books. Norm Eisen, the ethics are

1069
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: the one who wrote the playbook. He was also behind

1070
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: all of Trump's indictments. As a matter of fact, he

1071
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: says in the book that he drafted ten articles of

1072
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: impeachment a month until they got Trump. So he was

1073
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: appointed by Obama. He wrote the playbook on Hey, here's

1074
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: how you do it, and then he went and filed

1075
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: ten in his books self admitted ten articles of impeachment

1076
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: a month until they got Trump. And not to turn

1077
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: this into US thing, I want to kind of get

1078
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: to this World War three thing. But these types of

1079
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: things are happening, and whether it's a small faction or

1080
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 2: it's some grand conspiracy, but these things just seem to

1081
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 2: continue to divide people a little bit more at some point, right.

1082
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 2: I guess the question I want to get into because

1083
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: I want to get into kind of some of the

1084
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 2: election stuff, but the last part about putting a political

1085
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: opposition capable of mobilizing people, seems to be a big

1086
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: piece of it, right, So I'm just curious your take.

1087
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 2: Like it was in twenty fifteen, was the first time

1088
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: we saw BLM happened, and that happened I think it

1089
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: was from that Ferguson shooting, and then it quickly spread

1090
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: to like six different cities were like under fire going

1091
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 2: into that twenty sixteen election, and then sort of seemed

1092
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: to like go away, and then twenty twenty we had

1093
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 2: like BLM and Antifa sort of like back you know, protesting,

1094
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: burning down government buildings, et cetera. And then we haven't

1095
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: really seen it, and now we're seeing like now we're

1096
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: seeing like college campuses and that type of thing. I'm

1097
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: just curious, is that just coincidental in your mind? Or

1098
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 2: do you think a lot of this sort of like

1099
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: this this political opposition that we're seeing that happens on

1100
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: this four year period, is it somewhat around the elections

1101
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: or do you think that's just more coincidental.

1102
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: I would say that when you're when you look at

1103
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: that whole political playbook, that whole playbook that's reading that's

1104
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: needed for a color revolution, all of those ingredients are

1105
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: always present. There's always an unpopular incumbent, there's always the

1106
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: ability to rally people behind a political cause. Those things

1107
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: always exist. It's a matter of whether or not they

1108
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: reach a certain threshold, critical mass where they can do

1109
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: anything about it. I mean, you name it. Going all

1110
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: the way back to our childhood, there were always all

1111
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: all those elements have always been present. I think what

1112
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: we're starting to see now is the democratization of information

1113
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 1: and the increasing willingness for people to get behind something

1114
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: they don't understand, just to have a cause at all

1115
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: people being raised in a culture. I mean, we are

1116
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: a collectivist culture, and we've been pushing the collective narrative

1117
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: since two thousand and fourish. This now, it doesn't I

1118
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't be a surprise when your average eighteen to twenty

1119
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: seven year old young professional or early careerist when they

1120
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 1: decide to line themselves up with a cause, right.

1121
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 2: I mean, we're sports fans. We want to like wear

1122
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 2: our sports team's jersey and root for you know, root

1123
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 2: for our team.

1124
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: Correct. So, I mean Black Lives Matter is an organization.

1125
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: It's an ideology that's based in fact. Like the justice

1126
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: system is all fucked up. Nobody debates that, right, it's

1127
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: all fucked up, and it very clearly has empirical evidence

1128
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: that shows that the African American population bears the burden

1129
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: of that fucked up inness more than the Caucasian or

1130
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: Latino or whatever other. Right, So there's lots of empirical

1131
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: evidence that shows that BLM has a valid reason to

1132
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: be ideologically driven. They're not going to they don't go away.

1133
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: Just because they're not active in a moment of high

1134
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: tension doesn't mean that the cause is irrelevant anymore. And Similarly,

1135
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: when another moment of tension presents itself and the cause

1136
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: presents itself, that shouldn't mean that we think that it's

1137
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: being driven by some political or government establishment, right. If anything,

1138
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: I think when you see how different the different BLM

1139
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 1: demonstrations have been, even from state to state, city to city.

1140
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: Some times they get violent, sometimes they stay totally peaceful,

1141
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: it shows that there's no centralized organizational hierarchy. It's not

1142
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: like the Black Panthers, right. What you're dealing with here

1143
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: is a true political movement that's growing in momentum around

1144
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: a valid problem. It just so happens that it's also

1145
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: happening at the same time as these moments of political tension,

1146
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: which makes sense because it's a political issue. The same

1147
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: thing would happen if we were talking about abortion rights. Right.

1148
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: My mom used to march in abortion rallies when I

1149
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: was like three years old. I have pictures of her,

1150
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, promoting women's rights and the right to abortion

1151
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: when I was like five years old, next to her,

1152
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: My five year old self next to my single mom. Like,

1153
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of a fucked up picture. But my point is,

1154
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: my point is that you see these things happen because

1155
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: the issues don't ever get resolved. It's just when the

1156
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: political tension brings it. When it reaches a certain threshold,

1157
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: people then take the time to leave work or go

1158
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: and demonstrate their ideology. Same thing's happening right now with

1159
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: support for Palestinians. Dude, a year ago, nobody knew what

1160
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: a Palestinian was. Just like three years ago, nobody knew

1161
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: where Ukraine was. You just got a bunch of people

1162
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: who get behind a cause if they don't understand because

1163
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: they can read about it on TikTok and they go

1164
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: out and they march because they have nothing else better

1165
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: to do. They're not actually helping unless they are informed

1166
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: and responsible about what they're trying to support.

1167
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 2: So going back to that, the informed and responsible decision,

1168
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: which I want to get to because we're going to

1169
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: talk about the rise of internet communication and censorship. But

1170
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: in regards to that, you know, you talk about what

1171
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 2: the Green Brays do you talk about going back to

1172
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: the Egyptians, I mean the Roman Empire. It's pitting two

1173
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 2: groups of people against each other's identity politics. It's communism, right,

1174
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: It's what Karl Marx talked about. It's like literally that like,

1175
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: let's take the rich and the poor and put them

1176
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: against each other. But now it's the black and the white,

1177
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 2: and the gay and the straight and etcetera, etcetera, one

1178
00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: religion against the next, etc. So I think I believe

1179
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: we're both on the same page. I mean, this has

1180
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: been going on forever. That's what you do. You pit

1181
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: two groups of people. And what you typically do would

1182
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: if you really wanted to see so Seeds of Descent,

1183
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:12,919
Speaker 2: is you'd find a marginalized group, right, correct, a marginalized group,

1184
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: and it's like, hey, you can't get ahead because of X,

1185
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: Y Z. Right, you're the wrong race, you're the wrong culture,

1186
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 2: the wrong religion, you're the wrong set, whatever it is.

1187
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: And so you're never going to get ahead, just like

1188
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 2: Carl Marx did to the poor, like you're never gonna

1189
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 2: get ahead. You don't have any capital. All you have

1190
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: is your labor. That's what he told him in the book, right,

1191
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: And so you find that marginalized group, and maybe it

1192
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: was BLM because it was the flavor of the month,

1193
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: and then maybe it was Antifa, and maybe now it's

1194
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: the Palestinians or whatever. I mean, certainly plausible.

1195
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: So again you're talking about you find I don't know

1196
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: who finds. What I'm saying is that marginalized groups always exist.

1197
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: And what you're talking about pitting people against that's human nature.

1198
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 2: I know.

1199
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: That's not politics. That's just the way human beings are. Right,

1200
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: live on the north side of the street. You live

1201
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: on the south side of the street. We already have

1202
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: like disagreements. Yeah, just because I don't I know. This

1203
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: is how we are. This is why we get pissed

1204
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: off when we put our garbage can out on the

1205
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: curb and somebody next door neighbor throws their garbage in

1206
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: our garbage can, and we're like, that's not your garbage can. Right,

1207
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: we were ridiculous side of the street. Whan yea, even

1208
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: though we're not using that spot. Right, human beings are

1209
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: ridiculous creatures. That's just human nature. The whole idea of

1210
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: finding a marginalized group, now you're getting into intent, right,

1211
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: You're getting into what we call the radicalization ladder, because

1212
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: if you can find a marginalized group and validate that

1213
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: they've been marginalized, then you start them on a process

1214
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: of radicalization or a process of indoctrination that gets them

1215
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: to then assign a cause to their marginalization. That is

1216
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: a very different beast than your typical community organized group

1217
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: that says, hey, the problem is the justice system. Like BLM,

1218
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: the problem is the justice system. They're not saying the

1219
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: problem is the US constitution. Right, They're saying, the problem

1220
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: is the justice system. And here's the evidence that shows

1221
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: that the problem is the justice system.

1222
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: Well, didn't they say it's systemic, which would then say

1223
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 2: it's based off the constitution is systemic? Right, that's the

1224
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: country was a sixteen nineteen project. The whole country was

1225
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: founded off of racism. So everything that the country produced,

1226
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: including the Constitution, is then thereby systemic. Right.

1227
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: It's still a stretch, right, saying something is systematic or systemic.

1228
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 2: I agree it's a stretch, but that's what they're saying.

1229
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: They're saying systemic.

1230
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: That's what some group is saying now, right. It's again

1231
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,439
Speaker 1: it's a wide playing field. Some groups are saying it's

1232
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: systemic and based in the constitution. Other groups are saying

1233
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: it's just based in the modern legal system. So you

1234
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: have this continuum of explanations, just like we do for

1235
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: everything else. Yeah, the problem that you and I run

1236
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: into so often is that the voices that get shout,

1237
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: the voices that shout the loudest, are the voices at

1238
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: the two ends of the spectrum, the two extremes.

1239
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. You said that we were a

1240
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 2: collectivist culture. So like humans are tribal, right right, Like

1241
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: we're tribal. Do you think that scales though? I mean,

1242
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: are we really or was America more like based off

1243
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 2: of like individual values and freedom.

1244
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: It's a great question. It's a great question. It's an

1245
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: important one to understand because we were founded on independence,

1246
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: meaning like if you really think back the first American Pilgrims,

1247
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: we were not fleeing religious persecution. That's that's not true.

1248
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: It's a popular statement in like elementary school, but that's

1249
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: not what the Pilgrims were. The Pilgrims were independent contractors.

1250
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: They were coming from a overpopulated Europe and they were

1251
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: being promised land in exchange for cultivating the land to

1252
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: create produce that could go back to Europe. So everybody

1253
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: coming out here was coming back I mean essentially as

1254
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. That's what the Pilgrims were. That's why they

1255
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: were willing to take risk. It's not that they were

1256
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: being persecuted religiously. Some people were part of a religious

1257
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: group that the Europeans looked down on. But it's not

1258
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: like every pilgrim was being hunted to the end of

1259
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: their life. It was funded by the government, by the

1260
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: king at the time, right, So that's what we were

1261
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: founded on, is this idea of independence. Well, then over time,

1262
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: as we want our independence from the kingdom and we

1263
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: became a society that had to fall under a common

1264
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: rule of law, we were forced out of our kind

1265
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: of tribal thirteen colonies and we became this unified country.

1266
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: If you recall, the whole reason we had a civil

1267
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: war was because people weren't sure if they wanted to

1268
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: be unified from coast to coast. So we've watched over

1269
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: the last three hundred years, two hundred and eighty years,

1270
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: as our country has gone from being fiercely independent to

1271
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:57,959
Speaker 1: now becoming a collective society that adheres to a set

1272
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: of rules and guidelines that are dictated by an administration,

1273
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: a government above us. And you've seen that happen in

1274
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: every element of your life, like the days that your

1275
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: children go to school, the hours that they go to

1276
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: school is dictated by the government. The holidays that you

1277
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: have to give your employees are dictated by the government,

1278
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: the health insurance that you're required to provide, the registration requirements,

1279
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: the admission transmission emission requirements for your car. I mean,

1280
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: all of this legislation is coming down and down and down,

1281
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: and that's just that's breeding a collectivist society where we

1282
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: realize the benefits of adhering to the collective, and then

1283
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: we teach adherents to the next generation. And now we

1284
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: have children, like anybody with a child between the age

1285
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: of five and sixteen, you can look at those children

1286
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: and you can see they are so much less rebellious

1287
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: and less resistant and less independent thinking than we were

1288
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: when we were that age because this generation has had

1289
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: to deal with onslaught of technology and the mobile phone

1290
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: and mobile devices and the Internet of everything. So you

1291
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: can see how collectivism isn't it's not politically conspired. It's

1292
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: required for the state to continue to create a consistent

1293
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: engine of economic power. The United States government wants more

1294
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: than anything to remain the only superpower in the world.

1295
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: How do they do that. They do that by controlling

1296
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: their population and making their population as productive as possible.

1297
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: How do you make the population as production as productive

1298
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: as possible. You ensure that eighty percent of that population

1299
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: responds in a predictable manner, and then the remaining twenty

1300
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: percent can either be unpredictable or go on to become

1301
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: the people who generate the most economic success.

1302
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly agree with you that that is the role

1303
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: of the state. That Murray Rothbard wrote the book The

1304
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 2: Anatomy of the State, and he framed that up perfectly right.

1305
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: The purpose of the state is to stay in the

1306
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: state and continue to grow. Just like any business. The

1307
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: purpose of business stay in business and always grow the business,

1308
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 2: and the state is no different. Of course, he's you know,

1309
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 2: I would agree with his view in that book in

1310
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 2: anamy state, which for all the listeners, they should read

1311
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 2: that book. But there is no state. There's you and I.

1312
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 2: We're individuals, and then collectively we have shared common interest.

1313
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: If someone came in to kill us right now, you

1314
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: and I are certainly going to work together to defeat

1315
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: that person. But then like I might want to go

1316
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: surfing and you might want to go play tennis, right,

1317
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 2: and so we're individuals first, and then collectively we share

1318
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 2: things in common. I think the problem and I'll get

1319
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: your take on this, but in my opinion, like there's

1320
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 2: a saying about it, I forget. But it's like with

1321
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: my family, I'm a communist, with my city, I'm like

1322
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 2: a socialist, but with like my country, I'm like a libertarian, right,

1323
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 2: And so it's like it doesn't scale over time. So

1324
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 2: it's like, I think to the point that the state

1325
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 2: grows and continues to assign that. But like to have

1326
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 2: like one regime or a group of people three thousand

1327
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: miles away to tell my kid what time they have

1328
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 2: to go to school each day, I think is just

1329
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 2: way too big, and I think it caused a lot

1330
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 2: of problems that we have. We're trying to cram way

1331
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: too many people into one ground or square hole or

1332
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 2: it doesn't I say, fit that way. And if you

1333
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: didn't have to, if you didn't have to manage people

1334
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 2: down to the minutia detail, then you wouldn't get a

1335
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 2: lot of that, I would say, But what's your opinion

1336
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 2: on that?

1337
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: I would say that that's a big question that the

1338
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: world is asking itself right now. Right we're in a

1339
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,759
Speaker 1: phase of global development where it's a very open question,

1340
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: is democracy or autocracy the better solution, because democracy, you're right,

1341
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: does not scale well. It's slow, it's cumbersome, it's prone

1342
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: to fits and bursts, it's always prone to resistance, whereas

1343
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: autocracy scales very well. Right, Autocracy once, once it's established,

1344
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: millions of people fall under it, and it's very clear,

1345
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: black and white, clear rules, clear guidelines, which human beings like.

1346
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: Human beings like being told here's the left side, here's

1347
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: the right side. You stay in the middle. If you

1348
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: step out of the left or the right, here's what

1349
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,679
Speaker 1: will happen to you. Like We like that because it's

1350
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: we may not like losing our freedom if we've tasted freedom,

1351
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: but most countries in the world have never tasted freedom,

1352
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: so to them it's very free just to know what

1353
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: you can do to not step out of bounds. We

1354
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 1: have to accept the fact that democracy, as we understand

1355
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: it as Americans, is propaganda. It's been something that we've

1356
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: been raised in, we've been brought up in, we've been

1357
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 1: saturated in it, so of course we believe it's the

1358
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: best thing. How many failed democracies do you have to

1359
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: see in the world before you ask yourself the question, like,

1360
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 1: maybe the system isn't perfect. Maybe in the United States.

1361
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:39,440
Speaker 1: We did something right the way that we implemented our democracy,

1362
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: and now, as a result of our collective melting pot,

1363
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: we've all grown up to accept democracy. Whereas in the

1364
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: Middle East, like in Iraq or Afghanistan, you can't force

1365
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 1: democracy in a country that's never had democracy. You can't

1366
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: force democracy in a country that's always been run by

1367
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,600
Speaker 1: a a monarch like in Thailand. How do you You

1368
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: can't force democracy on other countries, and even more so,

1369
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,480
Speaker 1: you can't force them to alter their type of democracy

1370
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: when they create a hybrid right, because most countries that

1371
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: are quote unquote successful democracies are actually hybrids of a

1372
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: monarchy or hybrids of you know, a fifdom, or hybrids

1373
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: of some sort of tribal collective like the UAE. But

1374
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: still we seem to think that democracy is the end all,

1375
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: be all, when in fact our version of democracy really

1376
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:33,839
Speaker 1: only exists in the United States.

1377
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 2: Why do you think it's been so successful?

1378
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 1: Then, I don't think it's been successful. I think the

1379
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 1: United States was original and at a time when there wasn't.

1380
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 2: A massive States has not been successful.

1381
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:51,480
Speaker 1: The United States version of democracy has not been successful.

1382
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: It has not been replicated, it has not been exported.

1383
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: You know what has been exported monarchy? You know, it

1384
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: has been exported autocracy. So the the United States version

1385
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 1: of representative republic has not been successful. It's been a

1386
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: case study inside the United States export it. Yeah, which

1387
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: it hasn't been replicable, right, Right, If you can't replicate something,

1388
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: you have no proof of concept.

1389
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 2: Right.

1390
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: What you have is a country that was independent, that

1391
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: was originally colony, that then created its own independence and

1392
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: has grown its own success. But nobody else has been

1393
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: able to replicate that success.

1394
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I would just point out that obviously the

1395
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 2: country was not set up as a democracy, was set

1396
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 2: up as a republic, and I think it's a I

1397
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 2: think the details and the details right, So, you know,

1398
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 2: back to the Pilgrims, I think there's two things that

1399
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 2: are true. I think, yes, people were sent over as

1400
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs on behalf of the king, and they were funded

1401
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 2: and they were to bring stuff back. But I think

1402
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 2: they were also fleeing for religious persecution. I think there's both.

1403
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 2: But to your point, they were sent over by the king,

1404
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 2: so I agree with that. But when they came over,

1405
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 2: they set up a commune, right, and so they had

1406
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 2: land and they divided equally and everybody shared that land,

1407
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 2: and it completely failed. And part of what led to

1408
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 2: the First Thanksgiving was they decided, Hey, this commune isn't

1409
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: going to work. So everybody, you get your own plot

1410
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 2: of land. And if you want to sit on your

1411
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 2: land and sleep all day, that's cool for you. I'm

1412
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 2: gonna grow corn and I'll do mea and all of

1413
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 2: a sudden things flourished. And so really, you can't have

1414
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 2: freedom without, like you said, informed responsible decision. I would say,

1415
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 2: without personal responsibility like you have to have. You can't

1416
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 2: have freedom without personal responsibility. And so Jordan Peterson frames

1417
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 2: is up. He does a lot of talk about the

1418
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 2: Book of Exodus and using how the Book of Exodus

1419
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 2: is really like a story and metaphor for life where

1420
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: the Israelites were led out of slavery, and he defines

1421
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 2: like a slave as somebody who just can't think for themselves.

1422
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 2: Just tell me what to do, like I'll just do it.

1423
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 2: And then they they were on their way to the

1424
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 2: promising but they had to go to the desert first,

1425
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 2: so things get worse before they get better. But the

1426
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 2: problem is when they got to the desert that they

1427
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 2: were constantly bickering and fighting, and they didn't know what

1428
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 2: to do because they were slaves, Like they didn't know

1429
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 2: and so it was like they said, let's just go

1430
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 2: back to Egypt and just be slaves. At least we

1431
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 2: had food. But then they set up a new form

1432
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,600
Speaker 2: of government where each person had to be responsible and

1433
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 2: had this like hierarchical type of development, which is not

1434
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 2: really unlike what we did with a republic. And so

1435
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 2: I think number one, like you have to have people

1436
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: that take personal responsibility, and that's very hard to export,

1437
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 2: and you can't just go give us a bunch of

1438
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,839
Speaker 2: slaves or somebody that lives under some sort of regime

1439
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 2: that's never had that before. I think number one. So

1440
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: probably that entrepreneurial spirit that those people came with, that

1441
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 2: like we'll figure it out, will risk our life to

1442
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: like figure it out, probably help that. And I think

1443
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 2: the other part that doctor Peterson talks about, I would agree,

1444
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 2: is then the country that was funded on Judeo Christian principles,

1445
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 2: and whether you're a Christian or not, I don't think

1446
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 2: it really matters in the sense of just understanding that

1447
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 2: Jesus said that the most important rules put your neighbor

1448
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: above yourself, and so it's like this spirit of self sacrifice.

1449
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 2: So Jordan Peterson was like, at four am when there's

1450
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 2: a hurricane, someone goes and fixes the power line if

1451
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 2: they go down. Like other countries they don't do that.

1452
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: And so you had those two ingredients. I think that,

1453
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 2: in my opinion, sort of let this American experiment be

1454
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 2: so great. And of course I agree with you, we

1455
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: haven't been able to export it. But I think because

1456
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: those those that seed that wasn't there, that's that's kind

1457
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 2: of my opinion on that.

1458
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: No, I think it's a solid opinion, and it sound

1459
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,799
Speaker 1: We don't often recognize how much of the successful American

1460
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: experiment is based in our forefathers, because frankly, our forefathers

1461
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: stand in harsh contradiction to a lot of what we

1462
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 1: say is required now. Right, it was only land owners

1463
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: that could vote. That by being a by limiting who

1464
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: could vote only to people who were landowners, you create

1465
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: a sense of built in responsibility. You couldn't vote at

1466
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: all if you didn't have a stake in the game.

1467
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: Essentially, and this is a super contrary and take viewers

1468
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 2: probably not going to like this, but I almost feel

1469
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: that maybe if you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.

1470
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: I lived in a homeowners association just down the street,

1471
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 2: and I had to pay money, but we had tennis courts,

1472
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 2: in a pool and all these things. It was nice.

1473
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 2: And I decided I don't want to live in there anymore.

1474
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 2: I didn't like some of the rules. And now we

1475
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 2: live in an area with no homeworn association. I don't pay

1476
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 2: those dues anymore, nor should I get to vote what

1477
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 2: they do over there anymore. And so maybe you don't

1478
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 2: have to be a landowner. But like it's incentive mechanisms,

1479
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 2: it's skin in the game, as we call it.

1480
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: And that's how it started. Right. But then over time,

1481
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: because we have three different bodies, right, we have a

1482
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: legislative body, of a judicial branch and an executive branch. They

1483
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 1: all change, everything evolves, and now we've evolved to a

1484
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: place where the incentive mechanism isn't really there. Ye, so,

1485
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 1: and even worse, the people who have more incentive don't

1486
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 1: have more say. The people who have less incentive don't

1487
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 1: have less say. I'll have equals say, And then some

1488
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: people don't exercise their right to say at all. So

1489
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: we end up in this very difficult place, which again

1490
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: going back to my comments about is the American experiment

1491
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: of success or not? When you say that the business's

1492
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: job is.

1493
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 2: To stay in business, yeah, and grow, is.

1494
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: To grow, right, stay alive and grow. I don't know

1495
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: that the United States's version of democracy is growing very well,

1496
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: especially that as we see European partners separating, we see

1497
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern partners alienating, we see you know, Latin American partners,

1498
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, going a different direction. Is that American ideal?

1499
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,879
Speaker 1: Is that American business currently growing or is it currently shrinking?

1500
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 1: Is it stagnating?

1501
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 2: Well, it grew, and now I think to your point,

1502
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: it's shrinking and growing. And this is something I talk

1503
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 2: a lot about cycles, and I love to look at

1504
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 2: cycles back to this, like pendulum. And as much as

1505
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 2: the world changes, technology really driving it, but human nature

1506
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 2: stays the same. And so we're repeating these cycles. And

1507
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 2: so I look at this like two hundred and fifty

1508
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 2: year cycle of this like political revolution cycleless like pendulums.

1509
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 2: So two in few years ago, is the American Revolution rejecting

1510
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 2: the central power?

1511
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: You know?

1512
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 2: Two and four years before that was the Protestant Reformation,

1513
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 2: and rejecting the central power of the church and state.

1514
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 2: And I think now we've seen the pendulum swing to

1515
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 2: centralization with the WEF, with the BIS, the IMF, the dollar, homogeny,

1516
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 2: et cetera. But like it looks like the world's like

1517
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 2: rejecting it. That pendulum is about to swing back because

1518
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 2: we've just taken it too far and we'll probably go

1519
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 2: back the other way. But we could certainly dig in

1520
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 2: more on there, But I want to get into this

1521
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 2: next part. You talked about informed responsible decision and so

1522
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: part of it kind of even just carrying on what

1523
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 2: we're talking about, like having this voter base that doesn't

1524
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 2: have skin in the game, and if they don't have

1525
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 2: skin in the game, then maybe they're not making informed

1526
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 2: important decisions. And I think a lot of times without

1527
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 2: skinning the game. You know, we'll talk about bitcoin later,

1528
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 2: but I've told people just buy like five dollars worth

1529
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 2: because once you put a little money there, like you'll

1530
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 2: just kind of get a little interested in it kind

1531
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 2: of thing, right, And so like back to kind of

1532
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 2: paying taxes, Like you'll care more if you pay taxes, right,

1533
01:17:59,920 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 2: you pay for land, and maybe you'd care enough to

1534
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 2: become informed and I think, and there's not a whole

1535
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 2: conversation going on this rabbit hole, but like I think

1536
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 2: somebody was floating the idea of, like maybe we should

1537
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 2: make people take a test before they vote, Like do

1538
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 2: you know, like do you know the three branches of government?

1539
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 2: Do you know how the government works? Like do you

1540
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 2: understand these socialists? Have you thought through? Did you even

1541
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 2: read the voter manual? You know a lot of times,

1542
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 2: like you know, our county, they'll send out the voting

1543
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 2: guide and then they'll give you the bill, and then

1544
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,599
Speaker 2: they'll give you the pro argument for it, and they

1545
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 2: give you the con argument for it, and then they'll

1546
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 2: give you the rebuttal to the pro right And at

1547
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 2: least like you could read that, But like how many

1548
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: people have done that kind of a thing. So back

1549
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 2: to the informed, responsible decision making. But more specifically, we

1550
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: have the rise of the internet. And I mentioned just

1551
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 2: now the Protestant Reformation, And really, if you look at

1552
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 2: the Protestant Reformation, you had the church and state that

1553
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:50,639
Speaker 2: had sort of this monopoly and sort of this feudal

1554
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 2: system if you will, you know, dictatorship, if you will.

1555
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 2: But technology seventy years before that was a new piece

1556
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 2: of technology called the printing press, which disseminated the Bible.

1557
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 2: They read the Bible. I said, wait a minute, you

1558
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 2: have not been telling us the truth. Like, we don't

1559
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 2: need you anymore. We have our own independent, decentralized path

1560
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 2: to God kind of a thing. And now we have

1561
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 2: sort of a same five hundred years later, as the

1562
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 2: pendulum is swung back, we have the Internet that's sort

1563
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 2: of done the same thing by disseminating information. And you

1564
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that the role of the state or the

1565
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 2: government is to stay in power and continue to grow,

1566
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,679
Speaker 2: and you mentioned that they have to kind of control

1567
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 2: that narrative if they want to stay in power, and

1568
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 2: the Internet certainly undermines their ability to do that. Have

1569
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 2: you read the book Revolt of the Public. So it

1570
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 2: was written by another CIA guy, Martin Gurry, and he

1571
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 2: was a CIA analyst or he was in the CIA,

1572
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 2: and he wrote the book and it's basically the Revolt

1573
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 2: of the Public is basically talking about how the Internet

1574
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: has changed things. And he talks about the Arab Spring

1575
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 2: and a couple of different things that happened, but basically

1576
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 2: how the reason why central planning fails is the information problem.

1577
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: They don't have enough information to manage all the mass

1578
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: is like a market, right, and so the internet has

1579
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 2: also caused that problem where like one leader, they just

1580
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 2: don't have enough information, like the internet salutes can like

1581
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: dig into all this data. And so he says that

1582
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 2: without being able to control that narrative, the edges, which

1583
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,759
Speaker 2: are all the way around, will always replace the center anyway.

1584
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 2: So we have two things, I think. One, if we

1585
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,719
Speaker 2: don't have an informed, responsible decision making from the people,

1586
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 2: that's a problem. So they need to have all the information.

1587
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the state needs to be

1588
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 2: able to control the information if they want to stay

1589
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 2: in power. It seems like a tuggle war there.

1590
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the state doesn't need to control the information. That's

1591
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: the first place where just the narrative, they don't need

1592
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 1: to control anything. Okay, rights, the state may have an

1593
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: invested interest in trying to shape the next step, but

1594
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have control. As soon as you're part of

1595
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 1: a state that has control over that, you can't trust

1596
01:20:58,200 --> 01:20:58,919
Speaker 1: the state anymore.

1597
01:20:59,160 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1598
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: When the federal government looks at narrative, it's important to

1599
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 1: understand that narrative is a word that's thrown around in

1600
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 1: Layman circles all the time. Narrative is a second step.

1601
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:18,720
Speaker 1: The first step before narrative is called messaging. Without proper messaging,

1602
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 1: you can't build a narrative, So you have to have

1603
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 1: messaging first. If you think of it like the left

1604
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: side of the brain and the right side of the brain,

1605
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,680
Speaker 1: your left logical side of your brain that is the narrative,

1606
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: but the right emotional side of your brain that is

1607
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 1: the messaging.

1608
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 2: So you start with the messaging.

1609
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: You start with the messaging with the emotional center of

1610
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: the brain, because you can get people to agree or

1611
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 1: disagree very quickly if you talk to them from a

1612
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,800
Speaker 1: basis of emotion. And then once they buy in emotionally,

1613
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: guess what you can follow back with. You can follow

1614
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: back with whatever rational logic you need. It's how we

1615
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,559
Speaker 1: buy things every day, right. We buy the thing that

1616
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 1: we want because we really like the way it looks.

1617
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 1: But then once we actually have it, then we're like, oh,

1618
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 1: and it's also really good for my posture, and it's

1619
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: also really good for the house, and it's really good

1620
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 1: to the environment. We have all these logical reasons why

1621
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: we support it. So what the government does, what any

1622
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 1: propaganda engine does, what any political campaign does is they

1623
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 1: create a message or a series of messages that create

1624
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: an emotional attachment that then they can shape into a

1625
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 1: collective narrative. That's not just what the government does. That's

1626
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: what advertising does, that's what marketing does, that's what your

1627
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 1: favorite TV show does. Again, we're just following human nature.

1628
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 1: You don't have to control information if you understand how

1629
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 1: to create a message and a narrative, because once you

1630
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: create the message in the narrative, you've got lifelong believers.

1631
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: The Church has been doing it for a long time

1632
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: and they don't control anything about the Internet, right.

1633
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 2: Well, they tried they I mean back to the pros information.

1634
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 2: They tried to control the information. Yeah, and when they

1635
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 2: couldn't control the information more, they lost their place.

1636
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: And I would the Church is still pretty powerful even

1637
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 1: though they lost the information that that information were right.

1638
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 1: But my point is just trying to control the information

1639
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: as a loose game is and what we have in

1640
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: our world is an abundance of information. But information is

1641
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: not the same thing as intelligence. Information is not the

1642
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: same thing as wisdom. It's just information. So there's just

1643
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 1: as much garbage that's wrong as there is nuggets that

1644
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 1: are true. So what we're finding, just like you're saying,

1645
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: with that pendulum swing, people are going to have to

1646
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 1: choose what to consume and what not to consume. And

1647
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: what's sad is when responsible attentive parties try to find

1648
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: good information but only find garbage, or when they try

1649
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: to believe, they try to find the truth, but the

1650
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: algorithm that they're stuck in only feeds them lies. That's

1651
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:43,800
Speaker 1: the part that's so difficult, and that's the part that

1652
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 1: people have to learn to adapt and overcome in the

1653
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 1: coming years. Because we live in a world now where

1654
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 1: technology moves. Technology has always moved faster than human evolution.

1655
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 1: The brain is an amazing machine, but this doesn't evolve

1656
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,919
Speaker 1: as quickly as technology evolves. So now techno is evolving

1657
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: to undermine our own neural processes by giving us convenient answers,

1658
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:07,599
Speaker 1: knowing that our brain is going to accept convenient answers

1659
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:10,240
Speaker 1: before our brain accepts difficult or challenging answers.

1660
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 2: So yes, they start with emotion first. And that's why

1661
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 2: you know, I've seen it. I didn't put into the

1662
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,679
Speaker 2: words that you've put it into and it makes perfect sense.

1663
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 2: But like most of these conversations that we have in

1664
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 2: society today are emotional. They're not rational discussions, and trying

1665
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 2: to talk with anybody that has a different viewpoint is

1666
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 2: almost impossible because it's always coming from an emotional standpoint,

1667
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 2: which you can't argue with, right, So that's I guess

1668
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 2: is that I guess The question I would ask then,

1669
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 2: is that why it's emotional because they need to get

1670
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 2: the emotional ground before they try to get the rational ground,

1671
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 2: or that's just how it just naturally emerged. I mean, somebody,

1672
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:56,840
Speaker 2: if you want to talk about you know, we'll talk

1673
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: about vaccines, you want to talk about abortion, you want

1674
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 2: to talk about Paul. I mean, it's all emotional. There's

1675
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 2: like almost no logic behind it. And there's almost no

1676
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,639
Speaker 2: amount of logic you could give that person that would

1677
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 2: get them to change their emotional state. So, like I said,

1678
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,879
Speaker 2: I guess the question is is that just natural emergent

1679
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 2: or is it sort of? It seems like the rhetoric

1680
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 2: that we see from both sides on the media really

1681
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 2: appeals to that emotional absolutely.

1682
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: And it's because there's lots of really solid science that

1683
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: demonstrates that you have to go emotional first. So your

1684
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: left brain and your right brain are two hemispheres in

1685
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: your brain, right, but the processing speed of those two

1686
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 1: hemispheres is completely different when information comes in through your

1687
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: five senses, whether it's what you touch or what you see,

1688
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:40,879
Speaker 1: or what you smell or what you taste. When information

1689
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: comes in through your five senses, it's simultaneously sent to

1690
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:48,600
Speaker 1: both hemispheres of the brain, and then the two hemispheres

1691
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 1: of the brain processed through that sensory information. But it's

1692
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: a race. It's a race to see which left side

1693
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 1: or right side of the brain gets to the physiological

1694
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: center of the first Well, the logical side of your

1695
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: brain has like four steps that it has to go through.

1696
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,160
Speaker 1: The emotional side of your brain has two steps that

1697
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: it has to go through. So nine times out of ten,

1698
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 1: your emotional brain wins the race to the physiological response

1699
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: that your body has. That's why there are so many

1700
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: people who have anxiety. That's why you and I have

1701
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: all been spooked by socks in the corner of our

1702
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 1: room and we think it's a rat. Right, Because our

1703
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 1: senses send a signal simultaneously to both sides of the brain,

1704
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: but one side of the brain processes faster and gives

1705
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 1: us a physiological response. First, when you mistake that pair

1706
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:38,719
Speaker 1: of socks in the corner for a rat and you startle,

1707
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: what do you do Immediately after you startle? You settle

1708
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: because you're like, oh, it's just socks. The other side

1709
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: of your brain just caught up. Yeah, so the one

1710
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: side turned on your fear response, the other side caught

1711
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,839
Speaker 1: up and turned off your fear response. Well, what happens

1712
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 1: in media especially is they only have one response. Right.

1713
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 1: If you watch CNN, that's what you watch. If you

1714
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 1: watch Fox News, that's what you watch. If you read

1715
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 1: The Wall Street that's what you read. Everything else is

1716
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: just secondary, Right, It's like your steak versus your broccoli

1717
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 1: or your potatoes on the side. So what ends up

1718
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: happening is every news outlet out there, just like every

1719
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: educational college, just like every good boss, just like every

1720
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 1: good advertiser marketer, they've all learned that you just keep

1721
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,400
Speaker 1: hitting that emotional response over and over again and you

1722
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 1: never give people a chance to have the logical side

1723
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: catch up. Because if you do that effectively, how is

1724
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 1: McDonald still in business?

1725
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 2: It's a good question.

1726
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that shit's unhealthy. Everybody knows that's not everybody apparent.

1727
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: They all know it. That's what's so fascinating. They all

1728
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 1: know it. But the messaging in the narrative has been

1729
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: so effective that emotionally people don't respond to it. So

1730
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,959
Speaker 1: when they're hungry, they emotionally react to buying something that's comforting,

1731
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: even though they logically know it's not going to feel

1732
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 1: good or be good for them in the long run.

1733
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to the point that you're making, I think,

1734
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: like the old problem that we had was how do

1735
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,360
Speaker 2: we get enough information? And now today the problem is

1736
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 2: too much information as to how do we find good discernment,

1737
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 2: which I want to get into that with you. But

1738
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:11,639
Speaker 2: going back to kind of getting back into the censorship thing,

1739
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 2: and I'm saying they need to control the narrative. I

1740
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 2: think we're saying the same thing, but from a different way.

1741
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 2: You're saying they don't have to control it, but they

1742
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:20,679
Speaker 2: do control it the information.

1743
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: Nobody has to control the information narrative, which you control

1744
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: the messaging.

1745
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 2: Then if they and then but you said they don't

1746
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,799
Speaker 2: have to control the information, they only have to control

1747
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,679
Speaker 2: the narrative. And you also said that you can't trust

1748
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,679
Speaker 2: the state when they have control over the information. Correct,

1749
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:40,559
Speaker 2: But yet we see with I believe, and maybe I'm

1750
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 2: captured by the emotional narrative, I believe that we see

1751
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 2: undeniable proof that the state, not just in the US,

1752
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: but Brazil, Australia are basically the West and of course

1753
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: China they've always have, like the Great Firewall, et cetera,

1754
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 2: has control over the information.

1755
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:59,919
Speaker 1: The United States does not have control over the information.

1756
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 2: And I thought that Twitter file is pretty much I mean,

1757
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 2: it's it's self, it's self admitted.

1758
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 1: Just because the government is trying to involve itself, not

1759
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 1: trying to did. Just because the government has meddled with

1760
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 1: information does not mean they control all information. It's also

1761
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,960
Speaker 1: important to understand that the vast majority of censorship that's

1762
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: out there is coming from commercial organizations, not federal government.

1763
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 2: On behalf of the government.

1764
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 1: No commercial organizations that are trying to survive against government regulation.

1765
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 1: So they take a more a more conservative approach. Right,

1766
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:39,599
Speaker 1: they could avoid censorship and risk losing the entire company

1767
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: because of government policy. Would you risk your entire government?

1768
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 1: I mean, essentially they're caving to the bureaucratic law of

1769
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 1: the land, because at the end of the day, what's

1770
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: the business supposed to do survive and grow. If you

1771
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,080
Speaker 1: have to choose between surviving and growing or protecting the

1772
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 1: independent voices of the people on your platform, what are

1773
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 1: you going to pick surviving and grow? Because guess what,

1774
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 1: your freedom of speech does not apply in the commercial world.

1775
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 1: Your freedom of speech is very specific. It only applies

1776
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: to the federal government being able to persecute you because

1777
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:13,640
Speaker 1: of what you say against the federal government. There is

1778
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 1: nothing that protects what you and I say to each other.

1779
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: If anything, if I say something hostile to you, you

1780
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 1: can actually take me to court and win because of

1781
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: my hostile words. I don't even have to physically assault you. Right,

1782
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 1: you can take me to court for slander and win,

1783
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 1: and all that is is words. So there is no

1784
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 1: freedom of speech between people. And the problem is, again

1785
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 1: the message and the narrative that has gone out there

1786
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 1: is that we have protection of our speech individually. That

1787
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: is not true. You have protection of your speech against

1788
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 1: federal prosecution or persecution when you speak out about the government.

1789
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 1: Only I could be sued for what I said about

1790
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 1: McDonald's two minutes ago.

1791
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right, yeah, And I agree with that, But

1792
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:59,559
Speaker 2: back to the point, I mean, maybe that's a little

1793
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 2: bit of a man takes these private corporations, Facebook, YouTube,

1794
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:05,840
Speaker 2: et cetera. Did work on behalf of the government. Maybe

1795
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 2: they weren't forced to, but they they they dealt with

1796
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:11,799
Speaker 2: the coersion they were being forced.

1797
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:14,759
Speaker 1: I would say that they responded to a threat that

1798
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 1: that threatened the fundamental existence of my business. You can't

1799
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:18,879
Speaker 1: fault a company.

1800
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 2: I can't fault them. But it goes back to you

1801
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 2: had said, can't trust a state when they have control,

1802
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 2: which I was repeating. But he said they don't have control,

1803
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 2: but they did. They exerted their coeresive force which they use.

1804
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 2: Corporations influence. These corporation's cave too.

1805
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: But influence is not control. Two different things.

1806
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 2: You if I, if I threatened to kill you and

1807
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 2: you do what I say, that's still control over you.

1808
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:47,000
Speaker 1: No, that's that's influence. By definition, that's influence. Control gives

1809
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 1: you no alternative. Influence gives you alternatives. Right, if you

1810
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:54,839
Speaker 1: hold my hand, But if you force me to shoot somebody,

1811
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 1: that is control. If you tell me to shoot somebody

1812
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: or get shot myself, I still have a choice.

1813
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 2: Got it. So, because the states only threatened to kill them,

1814
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 2: if they didn't censor, then you don't consider to the

1815
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 2: statement can't trust them if they have control, you don't

1816
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,640
Speaker 2: consider that control even though they threaten to kill them

1817
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 2: if they didn't do it.

1818
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: Now we're getting into a very specific example. I don't

1819
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: know the proof of but what I'm saying here is

1820
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 1: if you want call it semantics or don't call it semantics, Right,

1821
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: it's very important to use words specificity when you're talking

1822
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 1: about things like control versus influence, because we all want

1823
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,360
Speaker 1: to control our kids, but we all know we can't.

1824
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 1: The best we can do is influence them. Right, you

1825
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 1: want to control your employees, but you can't. The best

1826
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:42,599
Speaker 1: you can do is influence them. And then we choose

1827
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 1: between motivational influence, like we'll give you a bonus if

1828
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:51,879
Speaker 1: you do a good job, or coercive influence. You're fired

1829
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 1: if you don't do a job. But you're still just

1830
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 1: trying to influence. And that's what drives us crazy, is

1831
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: that we don't have control. The federal government is the

1832
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 1: same way tries to legislate and legislate and legislate to

1833
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 1: gain more and more influence through positive and negative repercussions

1834
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 1: and consequences. But at the end of the day, we

1835
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:10,600
Speaker 1: still change our governments.

1836
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 2: So I guess I'm just curious because as we see

1837
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:19,599
Speaker 2: this happening more and more and more Australia now they

1838
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 2: called for Elon Musk to be jailed because he wouldn't

1839
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 2: take down a social media post about violence that happened Brazil.

1840
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 2: They're calling for Elon Musk jail globally, this new global

1841
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 2: online Safety Regulators network censoring Australia, France, Island, South Africa.

1842
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,080
Speaker 2: I keep going on and to the point that you're

1843
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 2: making sure it's coercive. I mean, they're basically threatening. They're

1844
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 2: trying to get him arrested. They're not able to at

1845
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:46,839
Speaker 2: this point. But kind of going back to the statement

1846
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 2: back to you said earlier about an informed, responsible decision,

1847
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 2: I mean, like we need to have free flowing information.

1848
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 2: I guess it's sort of this like and it goes

1849
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 2: back to personal responsibility, Like all of this falls apart

1850
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 2: if you don't have the right ingredients.

1851
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: And what you call personal responsibility, what we call that

1852
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 1: self respect in the intelligence community, the heart of everything

1853
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: is self respect. Do you respect yourself enough to inform

1854
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:17,759
Speaker 1: yourself before you make a decision. Do you respect yourself

1855
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: enough to resist coercive influences against you. Do you respect

1856
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 1: yourself enough to eat right, exercise, sleep well, et cetera. Right,

1857
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 1: it is personal responsibility, but.

1858
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 2: You have to respect yourself to have the responsibility. I gotcha.

1859
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 1: Makes sense, And unfortunately, I think that we live in

1860
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 1: a world that does not have a lot of self

1861
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: respect one percent. Yeah, you can see it. We outsource

1862
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 1: our decisions, we outsource our responsibilities, We outsource everything to

1863
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 1: somebody else. We take diet pills instead of exercise. Right,

1864
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:47,599
Speaker 1: I know, we let we let Twitter become our news source,

1865
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 1: right everything.

1866
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 2: I think Twitter is a really good news source, but

1867
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: it's dangerous like any other new source. If you don't.

1868
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,400
Speaker 1: Twitter is not a news source. I will say that

1869
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 1: so I'm blue in the face. Twitter is a social

1870
01:34:57,960 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: media outlet. What is social media?

1871
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:00,839
Speaker 2: Media?

1872
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 1: Produced by a social user? That's all it is. Can

1873
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 1: it carry a news story? Can a user share a

1874
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,360
Speaker 1: news story? Yes? But Twitter is not a news source.

1875
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 1: Twitter does not journalistically, vet or create anything original that

1876
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 1: goes out as a news piece that fits any of

1877
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:20,400
Speaker 1: the requirements of journalism.

1878
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:22,120
Speaker 2: But plenty of those journalists are on Twitter.

1879
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 1: Plenty of those journalists are on Twitter, and there are

1880
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 1: plenty of independent journalists on Twitter, but independent, but it's

1881
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:33,080
Speaker 1: it's still social media. Well, what creates momentum in social

1882
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:37,240
Speaker 1: media the social users. So an independent journalist creating a

1883
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 1: well balanced journalistic piece versus an alarmist journalist creating something

1884
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:45,640
Speaker 1: that's false but catchy. The social user basis is what

1885
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 1: determines whether or not this one or that one wins

1886
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 1: the race. Right. So again, not a news source. You go,

1887
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 1: you go to the you go to the front of BBC.

1888
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how popular an article is. The top

1889
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 1: headline is the top headline, right, It's not like it's

1890
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:01,559
Speaker 1: a social race of likes and down votes that decides

1891
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:03,599
Speaker 1: what you see on BBC or what you see on

1892
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal or what you see in the Times

1893
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:07,759
Speaker 1: of India.

1894
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, except for like I said, all those

1895
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 2: sources are on there though. And look, I mean I'm

1896
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 2: on social media, Like I get dms all day across

1897
01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 2: all of them, and I'm sure you do as well,

1898
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:19,760
Speaker 2: and I get all kinds of people send me all

1899
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:22,320
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, and I'm just like, man, this is garbage,

1900
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:24,120
Speaker 2: Like how could you even send this? Right? And even

1901
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:26,760
Speaker 2: people I know and I respect, and I'm like, like,

1902
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 2: come on, just look at this for a second, right

1903
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,639
Speaker 2: all the time, And I try to be very careful

1904
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:36,120
Speaker 2: because I have a big reach, and I'm like one like,

1905
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:38,960
Speaker 2: even if I do think it's true, it may not

1906
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,640
Speaker 2: be worth me putting back out there number one, So

1907
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:42,680
Speaker 2: I have to think about that from one stample. But

1908
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 2: even too, it's like usually with just a couple of

1909
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 2: minutes of just like research, you could just kind of

1910
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 2: even or even just thinking through this, you can kind

1911
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 2: of realize if it's true or not. So I agree

1912
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 2: there's definitely a cess pool. But this kind of goes

1913
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:54,840
Speaker 2: back to do we have enough people to self respect

1914
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 2: themselves take the time like I do to go through it.

1915
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 2: I respected the network, I respect the reach that I've built,

1916
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 2: and so I have to I have to cultivate that properly.

1917
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 2: But I guess the question is going back to that

1918
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 2: informed responsible decision making. We have to have people that

1919
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 2: are able to do that. But if they're not given

1920
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 2: both sides of that argument, how can they achieve that.

1921
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic question, right, So we live in a

1922
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 1: world that unfortunately celebrates ignorance, and that's not just the

1923
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:24,839
Speaker 1: United States.

1924
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:27,240
Speaker 2: One of my favorite not to cut you. You know,

1925
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 2: growing up was on the California Punk rock and there's

1926
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 2: an old punk rock band, No Effects, And they said,

1927
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 2: how can democracy work when ignorance is celebrated? Exactly what

1928
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:37,160
Speaker 2: you said, right.

1929
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much truth to lyrics and music, right.

1930
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 1: Music is oftentimes the history book of the future. Right,

1931
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 1: So we're seeing that, we're seeing that ignorance is celebrated.

1932
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:52,240
Speaker 1: If you're ignorant, you actually could live a happier life bliss,

1933
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Man, If you're ignorant, then everything is

1934
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 1: new and interesting. If you're ignorant, then you know you're

1935
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 1: always principled and everybody else is always man. Right, Like,

1936
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: it's celebrated, and we see that from media and television

1937
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:08,439
Speaker 1: and the kind of even the books that we reference. Right,

1938
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:11,559
Speaker 1: anybody can create a book on anything anywhere, and they

1939
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 1: can post it to Amazon or call it an e book,

1940
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: or get an IBN number, and it's a published book.

1941
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:18,120
Speaker 1: Whereas it used to be something important when you had

1942
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:20,439
Speaker 1: a book, right, it was vetted, it was peer reviewed,

1943
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:22,920
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So my point with all that

1944
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: is the first step to being able to fix the

1945
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 1: problem is to recognize that we are all ignorant. To start,

1946
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 1: if you feel like you're not ignorant, you're the problem.

1947
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:39,519
Speaker 1: You're the problem. You're deeply ignorant. I know that I'm

1948
01:38:39,560 --> 01:38:41,640
Speaker 1: well educated, I know that I'm experienced, I know that

1949
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm worldly, and I know I am ignorant about a

1950
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 1: lot of things. There were at least four questions you

1951
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 1: brought up today that I had no background in, right,

1952
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:52,840
Speaker 1: I am fully ignorant in most of those things. And

1953
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 1: if that's just in one conversation, if you and I

1954
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 1: had five conversations, how many more areas would I be ignorant?

1955
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,759
Speaker 1: So you have to become acutely aware that you are ignorant,

1956
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 1: and then you have to become acutely aware that the

1957
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 1: people who are knowledgeable where you are ignorant have the

1958
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:10,640
Speaker 1: advantage over you. They can shape your knowledge, they can

1959
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: shape your opinions, they can shape your feelings using messaging

1960
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,920
Speaker 1: a narrative, because you won't even know that there's an alternative.

1961
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 1: Once you have those two things in place, once you

1962
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 1: understand that you're ignorant, and then you also understand that

1963
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,839
Speaker 1: your ignorance creates a vulnerability that other people can exploit,

1964
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 1: then you have hopefully enough self respect to start chipping

1965
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:32,680
Speaker 1: away and becoming less ignorant in different areas. I mean,

1966
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 1: you have said this at least a half dozen times.

1967
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 1: Read this book. Look this up right, take a look

1968
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: for yourself. You've said those words in our conversation. That

1969
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,680
Speaker 1: is giving people an opportunity to chip away at their

1970
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 1: ignorance and become a little bit more knowledgeable. Even if

1971
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 1: they're becoming more knowledgeable in something that is wrong. You

1972
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 1: have to become more knowledgeable in a wrong thing to

1973
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 1: discover that it's wrong. It's just like what you were

1974
01:39:56,439 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 1: saying about your friends who send you articles and you're like,

1975
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:00,800
Speaker 1: take ten seconds, just read this thing.

1976
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1977
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:06,599
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, like ignorance is celebrated and nobody is calling

1978
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:09,400
Speaker 1: into attent, and nobody's calling attention to it. No one

1979
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 1: is raising their hand and saying I'm ignorant and I'd

1980
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:12,600
Speaker 1: like to fix that.

1981
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1982
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 1: Instead, everybody's saying, I know, I know, I know for

1983
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 1: a fact, irrefutable evidence, I know it's true. We actually don't.

1984
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:24,479
Speaker 1: There's information is not vetted, and you can find an

1985
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: answer that's in line with your belief system anywhere that

1986
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 1: you want to on the internet, unless you start to

1987
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: question your belief set and your sources on the internet.

1988
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that on the internet you can find anything

1989
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 2: within your belief system and the Internet. And so back

1990
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 2: to technology always change his thing, because it changes a

1991
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:47,240
Speaker 2: lot of things, the way we work, organize, and communicate.

1992
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 2: And you know, when I was a kid, I'm older

1993
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:51,320
Speaker 2: than you. When I was a kid, like we all

1994
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 2: listen to the same music, and we all watch the

1995
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:57,120
Speaker 2: same movies, and we you know, like we shared that commonality.

1996
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 2: And now today the Internet has allowed us to go down

1997
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 2: to a million rabbit holes, if you will. And so

1998
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 2: just kind of thinking back to the government started as

1999
01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 2: a small, decentralized government that didn't have much control of

2000
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:09,120
Speaker 2: your day to day lives, and now it's gotten to

2001
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:11,040
Speaker 2: this big monolith that wants to control what time your

2002
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:14,639
Speaker 2: kids go to school. But as the government's gotten bigger

2003
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 2: with more control, the people have become more different. It's

2004
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:21,960
Speaker 2: like we've gone like this almost you know, which is

2005
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 2: sort of the premise of that book, The Revolt of

2006
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 2: the Public. And it's just like this form of government

2007
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 2: we have to day, it's just not compatible with this

2008
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 2: changing world that we have with the Internet. But unless

2009
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:33,559
Speaker 2: you disagree with that, and.

2010
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with that. I think that it's the

2011
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 1: form of government to have. The form of government that

2012
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 1: we have is not compatible with where information is going,

2013
01:41:42,600 --> 01:41:45,360
Speaker 1: which is why you see the government struggling. And it's

2014
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:48,160
Speaker 1: one of the places that it first tries to exert

2015
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 1: itself is in the information space itself, right right, because

2016
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:53,519
Speaker 1: it's like, well, even the government knows that the problem

2017
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 1: with continuing to govern is the information. So now it's

2018
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 1: trying to find a way to stick to its promises

2019
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:04,879
Speaker 1: of free of information but also cultivate sources of information

2020
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 1: that are responsible, and it's hard to do that, especially

2021
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 1: when you layer in social media. If you recall you

2022
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,720
Speaker 1: and I used to find information in an encyclopedia in

2023
01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 1: a library, Think about how much effort had to go in.

2024
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 1: You had to know what you wanted to find, Go

2025
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: to the library, go to the encyclopedia, look it up

2026
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 1: in the encyclopedia, and if you were like me, you

2027
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:26,200
Speaker 1: would find two or three different encyclopedias and you would

2028
01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:30,320
Speaker 1: cross reference them. That's like five steps required effort to

2029
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:33,120
Speaker 1: get an answer. Now you sit down to take a

2030
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:36,880
Speaker 1: shit and your social media feed feeds you the thing

2031
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:40,960
Speaker 1: that you're interested in from yesterday, Like the encyclopedia comes

2032
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:44,040
Speaker 1: right to you, but it doesn't come with four other sources.

2033
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,040
Speaker 1: If anything, once you stop for three seconds and look

2034
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:49,639
Speaker 1: at that, now the algorithm knows to show you more

2035
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 1: like that. It's like looking at the wrong encyclopedia over

2036
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:54,880
Speaker 1: and over again because you don't realize there's any other

2037
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 1: encyclopedia out there.

2038
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:57,599
Speaker 2: The one thing I would say, the one good thing

2039
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:02,080
Speaker 2: I'd say back to Twitter is so many times and

2040
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 2: we have a problem in today's culture where they just

2041
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 2: want to read the headline and they think they understand

2042
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 2: the article, but they didn't read the article. But if

2043
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 2: you take time to read the article, a lot of

2044
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 2: times you can see through the narrative and the opinion.

2045
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 2: But back to social media. So many times I've seen

2046
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:17,840
Speaker 2: someone put something up on Twitter. I'm like, wow, that's good.

2047
01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 2: I never thought about that. Oh my gosh, and now

2048
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 2: my whole brain's going that way. And then I start

2049
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:24,280
Speaker 2: to read the comments and it's like debunked, debunk debunk

2050
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, I didn't think about that, right,

2051
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:29,679
Speaker 2: And so that crowdsourced information is pretty powerful. I've caught

2052
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:32,439
Speaker 2: myself more times than I can count. Wow, that's good.

2053
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I didn't think, didn't think, didn't think,

2054
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 2: didn't think. So I think that crowdsourced information is powerful.

2055
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 2: But I want to get to I know, we're sort

2056
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 2: of we've been going a long time here. I want

2057
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 2: to get to the big topic at hand that you

2058
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 2: talk about all the time and that most people probably

2059
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 2: care about, and that's like World War three and Civil war.

2060
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,800
Speaker 2: Maybe they're together, maybe they're different. But I've kind of

2061
01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 2: thought this through as it seems like it kind of

2062
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. Where you know, we see the world.

2063
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,240
Speaker 2: The political systems are changing a lot of it seems

2064
01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 2: to be from this mixing up of people. The governments

2065
01:44:03,080 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 2: are sort of responding by trying to control the flow

2066
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 2: of information. People are getting more divided than ever. And

2067
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 2: it's not just the people that are gaining divided. The

2068
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:16,759
Speaker 2: global homogeny is getting divided. And now Russia and China

2069
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:18,800
Speaker 2: are doing their own thing but together, and the rise

2070
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 2: of the bricks and they want to do their own

2071
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:24,320
Speaker 2: currency and like back to the pendulum, the pendulum swinging,

2072
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 2: and so the rise of this World War III seems

2073
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:31,479
Speaker 2: to be the big topic at hand, and I'm somebody

2074
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 2: I told you. I was born into an Air Force family.

2075
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 2: My dad's a VET, my grandfather was a VET.

2076
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:38,599
Speaker 1: I was.

2077
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:40,720
Speaker 2: I grew up under the Cold War, right, I mean,

2078
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:43,759
Speaker 2: the Berlin Wall was still up when I was a kid,

2079
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 2: and so, but for the first time in my life,

2080
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,679
Speaker 2: I'm like, dang, like we could have a nuclear war,

2081
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 2: and I'm like, in southern California, I'm probably a pretty

2082
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 2: hot target here. So are we having a World War three?

2083
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 1: There's a long answer to short answer. I'll start with

2084
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:03,240
Speaker 1: the short answer. The short answer is yes, I believe

2085
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 1: we are in the middle of World War three right now,

2086
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:07,599
Speaker 1: already in the middle, already in the middle. I think

2087
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:10,759
Speaker 1: what people don't recognize, to go to the long answer

2088
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:14,720
Speaker 1: is that war evolves. War changes just like a virus,

2089
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:18,040
Speaker 1: just like just like any one of us, right at

2090
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:19,840
Speaker 1: thirty five, you're not the same person you were at

2091
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 1: twenty five, and you're not the same person that you're

2092
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:24,280
Speaker 1: going to be at fifty five. What happens is people

2093
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 1: think World War three is gonna look like World War Two.

2094
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't know why people think.

2095
01:45:28,160 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 2: That, as generals fight the last war, but.

2096
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:32,640
Speaker 1: They think that. But World War two didn't look like

2097
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:35,160
Speaker 1: World War One. Vietnam didn't look like World War two,

2098
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:37,719
Speaker 1: the Gulf War, the War on Terror didn't look anything

2099
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:40,240
Speaker 1: like the Vietnam War. Right, So why do we keep

2100
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 1: thinking that World War three is going to look like

2101
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:45,719
Speaker 1: bombers and tanks and nuclear weapons. That's not what World

2102
01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 1: War three is gonna look like. World War three is

2103
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:51,719
Speaker 1: a war doc journally, meaning what's taught in the Army

2104
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:54,320
Speaker 1: war schools and the Air Force war schools, not just

2105
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:57,280
Speaker 1: in the United States but across all the First World countries.

2106
01:45:58,280 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 1: World War three is a war of what's called proxy war.

2107
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:07,000
Speaker 1: Proxy war is when rich countries fund conflicts in small countries,

2108
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 1: also known as inter state war instead intra excuse me

2109
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:16,080
Speaker 1: intra state war rather than inter state war. Interstate means

2110
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 1: two independent states invade and fight with each other. The

2111
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: closest thing we have about right now is Russia and Ukraine.

2112
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:25,000
Speaker 2: But wouldn't that be the textbook definition of a proxy war.

2113
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,559
Speaker 1: It's not a textbook definition because it's a blend of

2114
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 1: the two. Here's Here's Syria is a textbook definition. Right.

2115
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: Internal conflict led to a civil war that was funded

2116
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:40,040
Speaker 1: by outside partners. The United States funded one side Russia

2117
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:43,360
Speaker 1: funded the other side, right textbook Libya.

2118
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:47,120
Speaker 2: Textbook got it so because the US is used in

2119
01:46:47,360 --> 01:46:49,640
Speaker 2: Ukraine as a proxy but with Russia.

2120
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 1: And Russia did physically invade across the border, right, So

2121
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:55,599
Speaker 1: it's a hybrid. But you're exactly right, Like what what

2122
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:59,519
Speaker 1: you what we're seeing is that starting with the war

2123
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:04,160
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, we started to leave the world of interstate

2124
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,000
Speaker 1: war where we invaded Afghanistan and we started to go

2125
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 1: into a world of proxy conflict. Yemen was a proxy conflict,

2126
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:14,080
Speaker 1: Syria was a proxy conflict, Libya was a proxy conflict,

2127
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 1: and we continue to keep seeing them happen. And that's

2128
01:47:16,280 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: just the United States. When you look at China, when

2129
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:21,960
Speaker 1: you look at Russia, when you look at Turkey, when

2130
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,080
Speaker 1: you look at Saudi Arabia, there are even more. There

2131
01:47:25,120 --> 01:47:27,479
Speaker 1: are more, many, many more conflicts. When there's one hundred

2132
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: and twelve conflict zones in the world right now, all

2133
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:34,799
Speaker 1: being funded by external countries that are funding a conflict

2134
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 1: in a third world country against a competitor to their country,

2135
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:43,559
Speaker 1: just like we're funding Ukraine, Russia and China are funding Russia. Right,

2136
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,800
Speaker 1: Like that's you look at Israel right now, Israel struggling

2137
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:52,679
Speaker 1: because the conflict was a very convenient proxy conflict against Iran,

2138
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:56,080
Speaker 1: because Iran was funding HESBLA, the United States was supporting Israel.

2139
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:58,439
Speaker 1: But now it's gone out of control, and now it's

2140
01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:02,400
Speaker 1: starting to mutate in something different. Right with Beni Gance

2141
01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:05,799
Speaker 1: leaving the war cabinet, you're even seeing Israel itself divided

2142
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:09,040
Speaker 1: over how it's going to handle itself in Gaza. So

2143
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,600
Speaker 1: we have this again, this evolution, this transformation of the

2144
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 1: battlefield that will become the next version of the doctrine

2145
01:48:17,120 --> 01:48:20,120
Speaker 1: that we teach to our military generals of tomorrow. So

2146
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:22,720
Speaker 1: I argue that World War three is already happening. World

2147
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:25,840
Speaker 1: War three is a war of proxy conflict, and that

2148
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:29,920
Speaker 1: proxy conflict is how rich countries can tell their populations

2149
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:32,720
Speaker 1: We're not at war. And what is Biden telling us

2150
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:35,360
Speaker 1: every day? We're not at war, We're not going to war,

2151
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 1: We're not in a conflict to hell like honestly, of

2152
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:43,360
Speaker 1: course we are. We are sending our weapons, our surplus

2153
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:47,760
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. We are sending our advisors to Europe. We

2154
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:51,040
Speaker 1: are sending our special operations to Asia to train on

2155
01:48:51,120 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 1: the shores of Indonesia and Thailand. Within striking distance of China.

2156
01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,360
Speaker 1: Of course, we are one hundred percent in the middle

2157
01:48:59,400 --> 01:49:02,960
Speaker 1: of a globe war of power and influence. Just because

2158
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:06,760
Speaker 1: American soldiers aren't dying yet doesn't mean that they're not

2159
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 1: going to die as soon as China makes a move

2160
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:11,800
Speaker 1: on Taiwan and the United States decides to send a

2161
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 1: freaking naval cruiser through the Taiwan Straits, we're dangerously close

2162
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:19,639
Speaker 1: to being part of a hot conflict again because our

2163
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:22,640
Speaker 1: government is sending a narrative that is true that is

2164
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: not true.

2165
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 2: Right.

2166
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,439
Speaker 1: We are absolutely in a conflict right now. It's just

2167
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: a global macroeconomic conflict that can very easily be traced

2168
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:33,439
Speaker 1: to physical conflict if you understand the concept of proxies.

2169
01:49:34,880 --> 01:49:36,559
Speaker 2: I want to yeah, I want to dig into that,

2170
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:39,520
Speaker 2: but I would just say, real quickly, the Biden administration

2171
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:40,640
Speaker 2: is tell us we're not at war and not at

2172
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:43,120
Speaker 2: war and not at war, and everyone's like, we're at war.

2173
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 2: And this kind of goes back to the censorship piece

2174
01:49:45,280 --> 01:49:48,240
Speaker 2: and control in that narrative. Like now, they could say

2175
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:50,519
Speaker 2: there's no storm going on, but someone on Twitter's like,

2176
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 2: I'm here right now, Look there's a storm, right, And

2177
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:55,840
Speaker 2: so it's like and then even more like when you

2178
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,400
Speaker 2: have a business partner that is caught embezzling or your

2179
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 2: wife cheats on you, like that trust is gone. And

2180
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 2: like we've just seen dozens of examples of the governments

2181
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:07,080
Speaker 2: just flat outline, just like completely exposed. And so back

2182
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,760
Speaker 2: the Biden example of this is that. But just I

2183
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 2: think this morning, I was looking at some headlines before

2184
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 2: we jumped on, and now a bunch of NATO countries

2185
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:18,559
Speaker 2: are sending jets and I believe the first F sixteen

2186
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:22,439
Speaker 2: actually did a strike on Russia. Yeah, I mean, so

2187
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 2: it's a proxy war, not a textbook example because Russia

2188
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:28,040
Speaker 2: is in but like we're like inches away from it

2189
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:30,559
Speaker 2: being a hot war between the US and Russia.

2190
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:33,280
Speaker 1: Correct, And that's a major problem right when you look

2191
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:41,360
Speaker 1: at the policies about Ukraine are ridiculous policies. I understand

2192
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 1: strategically why there's so much focus from the American administration

2193
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:53,599
Speaker 1: on Ukraine, but the narrative doesn't hold up. Defending Ukraine

2194
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 1: because Ukraine is a democracy is a flat out lie. Yeah,

2195
01:50:58,040 --> 01:51:00,759
Speaker 1: if you want to be honest, say we're def Ukraine

2196
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:04,600
Speaker 1: because we're looking for a way to bleed Russian capabilities

2197
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:07,840
Speaker 1: we're looking for a way to put pressure on the

2198
01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:10,439
Speaker 1: Russian economy, not that it's working. We're looking for a

2199
01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:13,759
Speaker 1: way to gain control over mineral resources that only exist

2200
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:16,439
Speaker 1: in eastern Ukraine, that have always been accessible to the

2201
01:51:16,520 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 1: US government but are no longer accessible because of Russia's invasion.

2202
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:22,160
Speaker 1: Let's be honest instead of trying to say that we're

2203
01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:25,559
Speaker 1: protecting democracy when we're not. Ukraine is not a democracy

2204
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:30,120
Speaker 1: at best. They were a developing, struggling democracy that was

2205
01:51:30,160 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 1: still extreme interest. Yeah, and that's what it really was,

2206
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,800
Speaker 1: and that's what it's been for since the beginning. Now

2207
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 1: as we continue to escalate, and really the escalation started

2208
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 1: with the Brits allowing their missiles to be used across

2209
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:49,040
Speaker 1: Russian boundaries. Now with Biden allowing missiles to strike in

2210
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:51,960
Speaker 1: the Karkiv region across Russian boundaries. Now that gives putin

2211
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 1: chance to say that any weapons that he launches from

2212
01:51:56,240 --> 01:52:00,639
Speaker 1: Russia can be used against non Ukrainian targets like this

2213
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:05,640
Speaker 1: is an escalating conflict that is unnecessary. It's a stereotypical

2214
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:10,240
Speaker 1: example of what's called the security paradigm, where one country

2215
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:12,800
Speaker 1: takes an action and then the other country has to

2216
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:15,599
Speaker 1: escalate it by five percent, and then an ex country

2217
01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:17,920
Speaker 1: escalates it by five percent, and you just have this

2218
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:21,800
Speaker 1: constant saber rattling that gets us closer and closer to

2219
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:23,120
Speaker 1: the Cuban missile crisis.

2220
01:52:23,160 --> 01:52:25,360
Speaker 2: Right, Well, didn't they just send a tanker over to

2221
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:27,559
Speaker 2: Cuba aircraft carrier or something?

2222
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:29,760
Speaker 1: I think, And this is all this is all part

2223
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:37,160
Speaker 1: of a larger problem, right. It's breaking the rules of

2224
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:41,440
Speaker 1: proxy conflict, which is escalating us more towards traditional conflict,

2225
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 1: and traditional conflict is bad for everybody. So I don't know.

2226
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how this will end, but I know

2227
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:52,599
Speaker 1: that I just I flat out disagree with what we're doing.

2228
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:57,360
Speaker 1: And I can only hope that whatever our senior administrators

2229
01:52:57,360 --> 01:52:59,719
Speaker 1: are doing, they're doing out of some sort of insight

2230
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:01,720
Speaker 1: that they have that we, as the American public, does

2231
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,960
Speaker 1: not have, because if they get us into a hot

2232
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:07,800
Speaker 1: war with with Russia, I don't know what on earth

2233
01:53:07,800 --> 01:53:10,160
Speaker 1: would prevent China from immediately going after Taiwan.

2234
01:53:12,320 --> 01:53:15,679
Speaker 2: I talked to Doctor General General MacArthur and he thinks,

2235
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:18,439
Speaker 2: like that's just a that's a gone, foregone conclusion. Like

2236
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 2: he he he doesn't, he doesn't see that. I hate

2237
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:23,599
Speaker 2: to put words in his mouth. You can go anybody

2238
01:53:23,640 --> 01:53:25,759
Speaker 2: go watch the interview I did with him, But I

2239
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 2: pitched that to him and he's like, that's not how

2240
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 2: I see it at all. Like Taiwan wants to go

2241
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:33,120
Speaker 2: with China. Most of their country is pro China, Like

2242
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:35,120
Speaker 2: that's gonna happen and there's nothing the else is going

2243
01:53:35,160 --> 01:53:38,160
Speaker 2: to do about it. But that's his opinions. I don't

2244
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:40,120
Speaker 2: want to go dig into deep and force that. But

2245
01:53:40,200 --> 01:53:42,080
Speaker 2: just kind of going back to the situation at hand here,

2246
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:46,400
Speaker 2: it was almost like, what did you think was gonna happen?

2247
01:53:46,520 --> 01:53:49,960
Speaker 2: Because if you're gonna you know, when Nancy Pelosi and

2248
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 2: you know, Adam Schiff whatever, they went over there just

2249
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:56,879
Speaker 2: when the Ukraine's started, they said, we are, We're committed

2250
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,000
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. So what does that mean, right, Because

2251
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:02,559
Speaker 2: is like that means you're committed The US is there

2252
01:54:02,600 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 2: one hundred percent until Russia's gone. But they have nuclear weapons,

2253
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 2: and if they're gonna die, like if I'm in a

2254
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,080
Speaker 2: corner and I'm about to die, why that's the whole point.

2255
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:12,040
Speaker 2: I have the nuclear weapons in the first place, right,

2256
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:14,599
Speaker 2: So it's like, if you're gonna push someone that far,

2257
01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:18,240
Speaker 2: that's the end result. I just so anyway, Like I said,

2258
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 2: when I frame it up, it's like, for the first

2259
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:21,920
Speaker 2: time in my life growing up under the Cold War,

2260
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:24,479
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, there's actually a threat of nuclear war.

2261
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 2: And I've seen you make it well a couple videos

2262
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 2: I've run with the headline like leave here before twenty thirty.

2263
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:33,720
Speaker 2: Is that why you're saying that?

2264
01:54:33,840 --> 01:54:37,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah, I don't. There are two types of people

2265
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 1: really in the world. There are the people who will

2266
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:43,360
Speaker 1: stay and fight to create the thing that they want,

2267
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 1: and then there are people who will leave a conflict

2268
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:50,160
Speaker 1: zone and let it figure itself out while they take

2269
01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:53,240
Speaker 1: care of higher priorities. I am the latter of the two.

2270
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 1: I am the kind of person that's like the United

2271
01:54:55,400 --> 01:54:59,480
Speaker 1: States is, it's fucked up, right, It's messed up, It

2272
01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:02,400
Speaker 1: doesn't know what it wants. The people are largely ignorant.

2273
01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:06,800
Speaker 1: The government is trying to encourage and keep people ignorant,

2274
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,480
Speaker 1: and then you have this commercial overlay that's capitalizing on

2275
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:12,880
Speaker 1: the ignorance. So, just like you and I were talking

2276
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:16,840
Speaker 1: about incentivizing, everything about us is incentivized right now to

2277
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:20,600
Speaker 1: keep us stupid and uninformed and irresponsible, which means lacking

2278
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 1: in self respect. I have a five year old, excuse

2279
01:55:24,520 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 1: me to have a six year old? Now, I have

2280
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: a six year old and an eleven year old. When

2281
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:31,040
Speaker 1: I look forward five years, I will have an eleven

2282
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 1: year old and a sixteen year old. What's our fucking

2283
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:37,440
Speaker 1: country going to look like when they're at those core

2284
01:55:37,960 --> 01:55:42,080
Speaker 1: developmental years and I, as their parent, am the one

2285
01:55:42,120 --> 01:55:44,600
Speaker 1: responsible for putting them in an environment where they can

2286
01:55:44,680 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 1: learn appropriately. If I have to live here, I will

2287
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:52,120
Speaker 1: find a way to live here and manage the appropriate

2288
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:56,240
Speaker 1: self respect that they need to grow into contributing members

2289
01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:58,440
Speaker 1: of a future society. But if I have a choice

2290
01:55:58,480 --> 01:56:01,520
Speaker 1: not to live here, why did I not exercise that choice.

2291
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:04,200
Speaker 1: I've done my fighting for the United States. I've done

2292
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:06,080
Speaker 1: my fighting with the Air Force, I've done my fighting

2293
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:09,400
Speaker 1: with the CIA. I contributed to building part of what

2294
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 1: we have become, even though my hope for what we

2295
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 1: are right now was never what I fought for. But

2296
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm not about to make my kids and my wife

2297
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 1: pay the penalty of staying here while they figure out

2298
01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:24,000
Speaker 1: what to do next. I can just as easily go

2299
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 1: to Central America. I can just as go to East Asia.

2300
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:29,040
Speaker 1: I can just as easily go to Latin America, I

2301
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:30,640
Speaker 1: can go to the Middle East, and I can sit

2302
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:33,360
Speaker 1: back and watch from a distance as the United States

2303
01:56:34,200 --> 01:56:38,160
Speaker 1: transmorphs into whatever it either into whatever becomes that I

2304
01:56:38,200 --> 01:56:41,720
Speaker 1: either appreciate or further insulate myself from.

2305
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:42,200
Speaker 2: Right.

2306
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:44,320
Speaker 1: I understand not every American has that choice, But what's

2307
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 1: fascinating to me is if every American had that choice,

2308
01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:49,680
Speaker 1: I wonder what they would choose. I wonder how many

2309
01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:52,120
Speaker 1: would actually choose to stay and fight and try to

2310
01:56:52,120 --> 01:56:54,760
Speaker 1: transform a government that they know they can't control, and

2311
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:57,760
Speaker 1: how many would just say, fuck it, I'm out. I'm

2312
01:56:57,760 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 1: going to go build my empire somewhere else and take

2313
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:01,960
Speaker 1: care of my fae family and my people, and do

2314
01:57:02,080 --> 01:57:05,040
Speaker 1: my thing somewhere else, and watch and see what happens here.

2315
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:07,760
Speaker 1: Because this is not the country that my parents left me.

2316
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 1: This is not the country that I want for my kids.

2317
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:11,880
Speaker 1: And I don't know where this country's going right now,

2318
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:13,600
Speaker 1: so we'll let it figure itself out.

2319
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:15,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you familiar with the story of the Remnant?

2320
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:19,320
Speaker 2: So there's a book written called Jacob's Ladder. It's like

2321
01:57:19,320 --> 01:57:21,400
Speaker 2: one hundred year old book that's done really well. But

2322
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:24,960
Speaker 2: the story of the Remnant are through the Old Testament

2323
01:57:24,960 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 2: of the Bible, many times the Israelites were driven out

2324
01:57:28,040 --> 01:57:30,760
Speaker 2: of their land and conquered by many many times, and

2325
01:57:30,800 --> 01:57:33,600
Speaker 2: they'd come back in the remnant were the few people

2326
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:37,960
Speaker 2: that came back and rebuilt the kingdom, right, rebuilt the temple,

2327
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:39,800
Speaker 2: if you will. And so it's kind of like, hey,

2328
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 2: we can leave and will be the remnant. We can

2329
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:43,760
Speaker 2: come back and build this thing as it was, But

2330
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:47,040
Speaker 2: somehow we have to preserve that remnant to like rebuild it.

2331
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:49,040
Speaker 2: We need the seed or something like that. But I'm

2332
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:53,440
Speaker 2: curious that decision that you make. Is it more Is

2333
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 2: it more because you want a better environment for your

2334
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:57,480
Speaker 2: kids to grow up in. I think that's the case

2335
01:57:57,480 --> 01:57:58,880
Speaker 2: that you made. It's not fair for your kids and

2336
01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:01,640
Speaker 2: your wife to have to go through that. Is it

2337
01:58:01,720 --> 01:58:03,720
Speaker 2: more so they could grow up in a better environment

2338
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:07,160
Speaker 2: or is it for their safety? It's for opportunity, Okay,

2339
01:58:07,240 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 2: opportunity more than safety, more than not safety so much.

2340
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean to be honest, most parts of the world

2341
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:14,760
Speaker 1: are less safe than the United States, right, Like, I know,

2342
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:19,040
Speaker 1: we as Americans think that that's hard to believe, or

2343
01:58:19,440 --> 01:58:21,840
Speaker 1: Europeans think it's hard to believe that they're less safe

2344
01:58:21,840 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 1: than here in the United States. But the truth is,

2345
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:27,160
Speaker 1: in my experience traveling the world, the United States is

2346
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 1: one of the safest places you can be.

2347
01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:30,760
Speaker 2: But I didn't know with like nuclear war or civil

2348
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:31,480
Speaker 2: war and anything like that.

2349
01:58:31,560 --> 01:58:33,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean, I'm not worried about those. I

2350
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:36,440
Speaker 1: think both nuclear and civil war are relatively low probability.

2351
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:40,240
Speaker 1: The fact that their probability at all is frustrating, but

2352
01:58:40,280 --> 01:58:43,000
Speaker 1: at least their low probability versus something like a police

2353
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:46,480
Speaker 1: state or like a martial law, right, those are much

2354
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 1: higher probability than civil war or nuclear holocaust. But nevertheless,

2355
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:54,640
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking when I talk about leaving the United States,

2356
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:57,160
Speaker 1: the United States is supposed to be the land of opportunity.

2357
01:58:58,080 --> 01:59:00,720
Speaker 1: That's not what it's become lately. It's become a land

2358
01:59:00,760 --> 01:59:04,280
Speaker 1: of better opportunity than some places in the world. But

2359
01:59:04,320 --> 01:59:06,160
Speaker 1: there are other places in the world that just offer

2360
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 1: more opportunities than the United States, especially to people who

2361
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:14,680
Speaker 1: have an entrepreneurial skill, a technical trade, any kind of

2362
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:18,440
Speaker 1: advanced education. Right, you have opportunities in other parts of

2363
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 1: the world that are far superior than what you have

2364
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:23,000
Speaker 1: here in the United States. So do I get it

2365
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 1: when a Mumbai doctor who can't make more than one

2366
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:29,960
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month leaves Mumbai to come to the

2367
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:32,080
Speaker 1: United States and drive a taxi for two thousand dollars

2368
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:35,840
Speaker 1: a month. I get it, he's following his opportunity. But

2369
01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:38,640
Speaker 1: if you're inside the United States and you're a cyber analyst,

2370
01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:41,600
Speaker 1: you can do that anywhere in the world and get

2371
01:59:41,600 --> 01:59:44,760
Speaker 1: paid more, to live in a nicer place with less stress,

2372
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:47,320
Speaker 1: and there's a solid chance that your primary client will

2373
01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:50,000
Speaker 1: still be in an American company. Right, So why would

2374
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:51,920
Speaker 1: you stay here? Why would you stay in Ohio and

2375
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:53,480
Speaker 1: do that? Why would you stay in Miami and do that?

2376
01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:56,440
Speaker 1: Why would you stay and you name it and do

2377
01:59:56,480 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 1: that when you could go somewhere else. So for me,

2378
01:59:58,520 --> 02:00:01,120
Speaker 1: especially when I layer on the addition level, not only

2379
02:00:01,120 --> 02:00:03,560
Speaker 1: can I be an entrepreneur somewhere else, Not only can

2380
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:06,040
Speaker 1: I be a contributing member to society somewhere else. Not

2381
02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:08,280
Speaker 1: only can I be a content creator somewhere else. But

2382
02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:11,280
Speaker 1: if I take my kids somewhere else, they get to

2383
02:00:11,320 --> 02:00:13,520
Speaker 1: learn a different language, They get to learn what it's

2384
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:15,600
Speaker 1: like to be an American citizen abroad. Guess what you

2385
02:00:15,640 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 1: are when you're an American citizen abroad, you have tons

2386
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:20,520
Speaker 1: of opportunity, more opportunity than you do when you're an

2387
02:00:20,560 --> 02:00:23,520
Speaker 1: American citizen in the United States, because in the United States,

2388
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:26,280
Speaker 1: you can only go to the school in which you're districted.

2389
02:00:26,600 --> 02:00:30,880
Speaker 1: You can only get you know, support on Monday through Friday, YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA,

2390
02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:34,880
Speaker 1: whereas an American in Romania can get basically anything done

2391
02:00:34,880 --> 02:00:35,560
Speaker 1: for one hundred bucks.

2392
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a seve you know, in my sort

2393
02:00:38,600 --> 02:00:43,920
Speaker 2: of online entrepreneur, content creator, kind of course, creator, coach,

2394
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:45,960
Speaker 2: et cetera. In that world, I know lots of people

2395
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:48,120
Speaker 2: that have done that. And I was just at a

2396
02:00:48,120 --> 02:00:50,240
Speaker 2: conference speaking last weekend and some of my friends they

2397
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:52,920
Speaker 2: lived down in Columbia, and I mean the quality of

2398
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:54,880
Speaker 2: life they have down there for a few thousand dollars

2399
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:58,800
Speaker 2: a month is just unbelievable. And they mainly you know,

2400
02:00:58,840 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 2: they work in dollars. They you know, we're international dispoint.

2401
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 2: And that kind of goes back to the thesis of decentralization.

2402
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:06,600
Speaker 2: Now that we have the Internet and we have the

2403
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:08,920
Speaker 2: ability to take this with me anywhere I go, like

2404
02:01:08,960 --> 02:01:10,800
Speaker 2: we can just go do what we do from anywhere,

2405
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:14,320
Speaker 2: and having a lower cost of living than allows for

2406
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:17,200
Speaker 2: a higher quality of life. And so the Internet is

2407
02:01:17,200 --> 02:01:19,320
Speaker 2: really one of these things. The next thing, So there's

2408
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:22,240
Speaker 2: really three technologies I called the decentralized revolution that we're in,

2409
02:01:22,280 --> 02:01:24,160
Speaker 2: and so the Internet is a piece of that. But

2410
02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:28,760
Speaker 2: then we have borderless, permissionless, decentralized money, so we have

2411
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 2: bitcoin now, and then we have AI, which is sort

2412
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:34,560
Speaker 2: of centralizing because who controls THELLM, But at the same

2413
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:36,480
Speaker 2: time it allows me to maybe do the work of

2414
02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:38,880
Speaker 2: ten people or one hundred people, so it's also sort

2415
02:01:38,880 --> 02:01:42,600
Speaker 2: of decentralizing, if you will. But a lot of people

2416
02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:47,040
Speaker 2: would say that bitcoin was created by the CIA. I'm

2417
02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 2: sure you've probably heard that.

2418
02:01:48,160 --> 02:01:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody thinks that's everything. There's someone who believes everything

2419
02:01:52,360 --> 02:01:55,600
Speaker 1: is created by the CIA. But I don't see that happening.

2420
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:57,520
Speaker 1: And nowhere in my experience has that ever been a

2421
02:01:57,640 --> 02:02:00,000
Speaker 1: claim the CIA has made or even been assessed or

2422
02:02:00,080 --> 02:02:01,840
Speaker 1: assumed inside the hallways of Langley.

2423
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think where that kind of picks up steam

2424
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 2: is because it uses encryption technology, which you know, I'm

2425
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:10,440
Speaker 2: guessing the NSA right, the military like has the encryption technology.

2426
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 2: So you haven't heard that before.

2427
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:14,480
Speaker 1: No, So I mean I've heard it before, but it

2428
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:16,520
Speaker 1: makes sense now as it does.

2429
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, do you have any views or opinions

2430
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:21,200
Speaker 2: on having an ability to kind of control your money

2431
02:02:21,240 --> 02:02:22,920
Speaker 2: outside of the state system?

2432
02:02:23,280 --> 02:02:27,000
Speaker 1: So yes and no. So what I will say first

2433
02:02:27,040 --> 02:02:32,320
Speaker 1: is that the assumption that great encryption starts at CIA

2434
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:36,400
Speaker 1: is a false assumption. The correct assumption is that some

2435
02:02:37,160 --> 02:02:41,080
Speaker 1: very specialized company out there creates outstanding encryption and then

2436
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:43,920
Speaker 1: CIA becomes the first investor. Right, That's the way it

2437
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:51,480
Speaker 1: actually works. So Bitcoin or the role of the of

2438
02:02:51,520 --> 02:02:55,480
Speaker 1: the blockchain, is a fantastic technology that was created, and

2439
02:02:55,520 --> 02:02:57,000
Speaker 1: then everybody jumps on board, because what do you do.

2440
02:02:57,040 --> 02:03:00,320
Speaker 1: Whenever there's a fantastic technology, you jump on board. Is

2441
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:04,760
Speaker 1: a fantastic technology. The idea of a decentralized currency is

2442
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:08,320
Speaker 1: a fantastic technology, but it goes against the model of

2443
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:13,280
Speaker 1: the state. So it makes total sense that decentralized currency

2444
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:16,520
Speaker 1: would be adopted by individual citizens across the world. And

2445
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:22,360
Speaker 1: there's millions, tens of millions, billions possibly bitcoin users. But

2446
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 1: the idea that bitcoin will ever be fully accepted by

2447
02:03:25,040 --> 02:03:28,640
Speaker 1: a federal government, the probability is very very low because

2448
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: it stands in contrast to what federal governments want, which

2449
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 1: is control. They want control, they want predictability, they want

2450
02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:38,000
Speaker 1: to be able to make a little bit of money

2451
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:41,040
Speaker 1: off of every transaction because that's what drives their GDP.

2452
02:03:42,040 --> 02:03:44,880
Speaker 1: Decentralized currency takes away the government's ability to make money

2453
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:47,680
Speaker 1: off of every transaction. So even though the blockchain is

2454
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:50,840
Speaker 1: there to show full accountability, the federal government would rather

2455
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 1: have the blockchain in their own currency. So it becomes

2456
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 1: this constant point of consternation where federal governments are going

2457
02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:02,920
Speaker 1: in the direction of cryptocurrency, which is good, right, Cryptocurrency

2458
02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:05,600
Speaker 1: is something we should adopt. But what they're doing is

2459
02:04:05,600 --> 02:04:07,160
Speaker 1: they're going about it in a way where they're developing

2460
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:11,440
Speaker 1: their own cryptocurrencies and abandoning the market cryptocurrencies, which leaves

2461
02:04:11,480 --> 02:04:13,640
Speaker 1: the market cryptocurrencies in an uneven place.

2462
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one thing I would say to that is

2463
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:17,520
Speaker 2: what we saw in the United States, again, because we're

2464
02:04:17,520 --> 02:04:20,040
Speaker 2: still somewhat of a republic with independent states. We saw

2465
02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:22,600
Speaker 2: sort of how they dealt with marijuana, for example, and

2466
02:04:22,640 --> 02:04:25,280
Speaker 2: one state legalized in another state. Now now states and

2467
02:04:25,320 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 2: now Biden's like, all right, screw it, Like we'll just

2468
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:29,600
Speaker 2: make it federal. And what we've seen now is about

2469
02:04:29,600 --> 02:04:33,960
Speaker 2: a half a dozen states have gone in and protected

2470
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:37,520
Speaker 2: bitcoin under constitutional law. Now one state, the next state.

2471
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:39,000
Speaker 2: Now we have about six states and then just I

2472
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:41,240
Speaker 2: think two weeks ago or three weeks ago, the US

2473
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:44,880
Speaker 2: House passed a bill to protect the people's rights to

2474
02:04:45,080 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 2: use and own bitcoin, and so it's a pretty big step.

2475
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:48,080
Speaker 1: I agree.

2476
02:04:48,080 --> 02:04:50,480
Speaker 2: I think the other thing is that, you know, for

2477
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:53,680
Speaker 2: for better or worse, probably most likely worse, the lobbying

2478
02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:56,440
Speaker 2: industry and you know, they're the ones that are sort

2479
02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 2: of writing the laws and the financial institutions now, black Rocket,

2480
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:02,839
Speaker 2: et cetera. They're making billions of dollars off of this asset,

2481
02:05:02,880 --> 02:05:04,920
Speaker 2: and so the chance of them seeing the government just

2482
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:07,200
Speaker 2: make it illegal seems pretty slim at this point.

2483
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:09,480
Speaker 1: Well, I've never said anything about the government making it illegal.

2484
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:11,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was saying that they're not going to

2485
02:05:11,880 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 1: adopt it as a mainstream Oh yeah, of course not.

2486
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, of course, I.

2487
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:16,400
Speaker 1: Don't think they're going to outlaw it. I don't think

2488
02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:17,960
Speaker 1: they're going to make it illegal because at the end

2489
02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:20,040
Speaker 1: of the day, it I mean, even they did make

2490
02:05:20,040 --> 02:05:22,800
Speaker 1: it illegal, it still exists, right exactly. But whether or

2491
02:05:22,840 --> 02:05:26,080
Speaker 1: not your bitcoin is or your cryptocurrency of anything outside

2492
02:05:26,120 --> 02:05:30,040
Speaker 1: of a government backed cryptocurrency, whether or not it will

2493
02:05:30,080 --> 02:05:32,520
Speaker 1: ever become something that you can literally use in the

2494
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,600
Speaker 1: mainstream world to buy everything from milk and eggs to

2495
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:40,080
Speaker 1: Amazon order. Right, that that is a point of question

2496
02:05:40,360 --> 02:05:42,839
Speaker 1: that I would say is not yet defined.

2497
02:05:42,920 --> 02:05:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, about time to wrap this thing up.

2498
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:48,240
Speaker 2: We've gone a long time. I wanted to talk about

2499
02:05:48,280 --> 02:05:50,480
Speaker 2: some of your CIA spy stuff so we can get

2500
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:52,320
Speaker 2: that plug down. And you're wearing your shirt everyday spy

2501
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:54,960
Speaker 2: and I can just tell it must be really good

2502
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:56,760
Speaker 2: because I can just tell the way that you think

2503
02:05:56,800 --> 02:05:59,160
Speaker 2: through these problems and obviously recruited by the CIA to

2504
02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:02,560
Speaker 2: help them with this. So maybe like tell us a

2505
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:04,720
Speaker 2: little bit about you know why you created this. Was

2506
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:06,960
Speaker 2: it to help people kind of like have some of

2507
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:09,200
Speaker 2: these models to think with and like have better control

2508
02:06:09,240 --> 02:06:09,720
Speaker 2: over their life.

2509
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly it. So there's a misnomer at CIA,

2510
02:06:13,360 --> 02:06:14,720
Speaker 1: and I think you even said it when we first

2511
02:06:14,720 --> 02:06:18,280
Speaker 1: started that they go out and they find these gifted

2512
02:06:18,320 --> 02:06:21,080
Speaker 1: talented people, right, they go out and they find smart people.

2513
02:06:21,120 --> 02:06:23,320
Speaker 1: They go out and they find like, that's not how

2514
02:06:23,320 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 1: it works. Nobody is born with the skills that you

2515
02:06:26,240 --> 02:06:29,280
Speaker 1: need to be a spy. You don't have them, right,

2516
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:30,720
Speaker 1: you have to be taught them.

2517
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2518
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:36,040
Speaker 1: What CIA has done is they have found a way

2519
02:06:36,080 --> 02:06:40,200
Speaker 1: of teaching pretty much anybody to learn the skills because

2520
02:06:40,240 --> 02:06:42,920
Speaker 1: they need a wide range of people, right, if you

2521
02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:46,640
Speaker 1: think about it truly, in order for CIA to operate

2522
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:50,400
Speaker 1: in an Arab country against a female target, they need

2523
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:52,880
Speaker 1: somebody who can blend into an Arab country against the

2524
02:06:52,880 --> 02:06:55,160
Speaker 1: female target, which basically means they need an Arab female.

2525
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:57,800
Speaker 1: If you want to blend into an African country that's

2526
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:02,640
Speaker 1: predominantly dark skinned black individuals, then you need to send

2527
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:05,000
Speaker 1: someone in who can blend in in Asian countries, in

2528
02:07:05,080 --> 02:07:07,880
Speaker 1: Latin American countries. If you want someone to make friends

2529
02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:11,120
Speaker 1: and steal secrets from somebody who is handicapped in some way,

2530
02:07:11,120 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 1: if you want to steal secrets from someone who's autistic, right,

2531
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:16,880
Speaker 1: you have to have people that can fit all of

2532
02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:19,960
Speaker 1: those roles, fit any operational role that you need. Well,

2533
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:23,120
Speaker 1: you're not going to find Yale and Stanford graduates of

2534
02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:25,920
Speaker 1: all that different type of diversity. What you can find

2535
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:29,320
Speaker 1: is any normal person who shows a certain level of

2536
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:33,240
Speaker 1: cognitive ability that demonstrates that they can learn the skills fast.

2537
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:35,920
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Cognitive ability means you can learn

2538
02:07:35,960 --> 02:07:38,480
Speaker 1: the skills fast. Lower cognitive ability does not mean you

2539
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:41,560
Speaker 1: can't learn the skills. It means you learn the skills slower.

2540
02:07:42,440 --> 02:07:45,960
Speaker 1: So CIA has learned that the trick to making spies,

2541
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:49,240
Speaker 1: which is really the trick to making covert operators who

2542
02:07:49,280 --> 02:07:52,440
Speaker 1: can get magical, like magnificent things done in short periods

2543
02:07:52,480 --> 02:07:57,400
Speaker 1: of time, the trick is just how you teach them.

2544
02:07:57,720 --> 02:07:59,720
Speaker 1: Anybody can learn anything, it's just a matter of how

2545
02:07:59,720 --> 02:08:02,560
Speaker 1: you ta the so CIA is built on this educational

2546
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:07,440
Speaker 1: framework of structured process and systematic training, a system that's

2547
02:08:07,480 --> 02:08:13,320
Speaker 1: called educate, Educate, Exercise experience. When you follow those three e's,

2548
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:15,640
Speaker 1: when you teach somebody what to do, let them exercise

2549
02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:17,400
Speaker 1: what they just learned, and then give them a real

2550
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:21,520
Speaker 1: world scenario to experience what they just exercised, knowledge becomes permanent.

2551
02:08:22,040 --> 02:08:23,920
Speaker 1: So when I left CIA and I went into the

2552
02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:26,320
Speaker 1: everyday world and I started working at a pharmaceutical company,

2553
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:28,960
Speaker 1: I was shocked because there are so many smart people

2554
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:32,520
Speaker 1: in this company that couldn't get shit done, and I

2555
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: had no experience in pharmaceuticals at all, and I was

2556
02:08:35,160 --> 02:08:37,360
Speaker 1: able to pick up and learn what they were doing

2557
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:39,160
Speaker 1: and what I was doing, and how to make both

2558
02:08:39,240 --> 02:08:41,680
Speaker 1: their job and my job more efficient just by using

2559
02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:44,200
Speaker 1: the frameworks that CIA taught me. So it was during

2560
02:08:44,200 --> 02:08:46,560
Speaker 1: that process in the commercial world where it clicked and

2561
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:50,240
Speaker 1: I was like, if I can succeed in a matter

2562
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:55,040
Speaker 1: of six months in a fortune seven company using spy skills,

2563
02:08:55,200 --> 02:08:57,560
Speaker 1: why couldn't everybody use spy skills to succeed. If it's

2564
02:08:57,600 --> 02:08:59,760
Speaker 1: just a matter of teaching people how to learn quickly,

2565
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:02,080
Speaker 1: I can teach them that. I can teach somebody that

2566
02:09:02,120 --> 02:09:04,720
Speaker 1: in afternoon, And that's where everyday spy came from.

2567
02:09:05,520 --> 02:09:09,520
Speaker 2: So skills for what though, Skills just to learn and adapt.

2568
02:09:09,760 --> 02:09:13,520
Speaker 2: So it's like, I mean, who's like your ideal client

2569
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:14,920
Speaker 2: and what are you actually helping them achieve?

2570
02:09:14,960 --> 02:09:17,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, the most dangerous part of a spies life

2571
02:09:17,760 --> 02:09:21,040
Speaker 1: isn't actually the operation. It's everyday life. When you're living

2572
02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:24,280
Speaker 1: an alias and you're planning to carry out some dangerous

2573
02:09:24,280 --> 02:09:28,280
Speaker 1: covert operation. The dangerous covert operation part you practice that

2574
02:09:28,440 --> 02:09:33,200
Speaker 1: a thousand times. It's flawless. It's everything else that's dangerous.

2575
02:09:33,240 --> 02:09:35,960
Speaker 1: It's signing the wrong receipt in the wrong name, it's

2576
02:09:35,960 --> 02:09:38,520
Speaker 1: pulling the wrong credit card, it's driving your car the

2577
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:40,640
Speaker 1: same way every time you go to work. It's who

2578
02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:42,680
Speaker 1: you call on your phone. It's forgetting that you can't

2579
02:09:42,680 --> 02:09:44,920
Speaker 1: log into that email address using this phone. That's the

2580
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:47,120
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that screws us up. Yeah, so everyday

2581
02:09:47,160 --> 02:09:49,280
Speaker 1: life is the most dangerous part for spies. So the

2582
02:09:49,360 --> 02:09:51,800
Speaker 1: vast majority of our training goes into how to manage

2583
02:09:51,800 --> 02:09:56,400
Speaker 1: every day life social situations, personal situations, professional situations. How

2584
02:09:56,400 --> 02:09:58,120
Speaker 1: to get ahead with your boss, how to gain trust,

2585
02:09:58,120 --> 02:10:00,480
Speaker 1: how to build a network, how to influence people, how

2586
02:10:00,480 --> 02:10:02,560
Speaker 1: to get what you want from people who don't trust you,

2587
02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:04,720
Speaker 1: how to tell if someone's lying to you. These are

2588
02:10:04,720 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 1: the kind of skills that exist for us. The problems

2589
02:10:07,760 --> 02:10:09,480
Speaker 1: that exist for us in everyday life come from all

2590
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: those areas, right, even how to get better sleep, how

2591
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:16,400
Speaker 1: to have a stronger memory, how to keep maintain fitness

2592
02:10:16,400 --> 02:10:18,360
Speaker 1: when you don't have a gym. All of these things

2593
02:10:18,400 --> 02:10:21,400
Speaker 1: are everyday problems that spies face in an operation all

2594
02:10:21,440 --> 02:10:25,360
Speaker 1: the time. They're also problems everyday people face all the time.

2595
02:10:25,600 --> 02:10:27,520
Speaker 1: How to know what information to trust, how to know

2596
02:10:27,560 --> 02:10:30,760
Speaker 1: which information to reject, how to know when somebody has

2597
02:10:30,840 --> 02:10:33,280
Speaker 1: been corrupted against you, how to know when somebody is

2598
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:37,880
Speaker 1: corruptible against somebody they believe in. These are all super

2599
02:10:37,960 --> 02:10:42,640
Speaker 1: useful skills, from negotiation to persuasion for how to build

2600
02:10:42,640 --> 02:10:46,800
Speaker 1: a business, how to get a promotion, how to change

2601
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:51,320
Speaker 1: career paths. Right, Like, there's even I've had the opportunity

2602
02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:53,200
Speaker 1: to work with people who are trying to save a marriage.

2603
02:10:53,280 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to work with executives who are

2604
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:58,840
Speaker 1: trying to reconnect with their children. Like, the skills are

2605
02:10:59,280 --> 02:11:03,400
Speaker 1: incredibly ad adaptable to everyday life because all the frameworks

2606
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:07,200
Speaker 1: were built for us to succeed undercover in everyday life.

2607
02:11:07,480 --> 02:11:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds great. I could see how that could be beneficial.

2608
02:11:10,640 --> 02:11:12,200
Speaker 2: I was thinking about when you're talking about that, just

2609
02:11:12,240 --> 02:11:15,520
Speaker 2: that book. I never never split the difference FBI hostage

2610
02:11:15,560 --> 02:11:18,080
Speaker 2: and negotiation techniques and like how powerful they are. And

2611
02:11:18,120 --> 02:11:19,720
Speaker 2: I've read it a couple of times and I've listened

2612
02:11:19,720 --> 02:11:22,560
Speaker 2: to nuggets, but like, I can't really go apply that

2613
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:23,960
Speaker 2: because I haven't practiced it.

2614
02:11:24,320 --> 02:11:26,640
Speaker 1: Not only not only that, but life is very rarely

2615
02:11:26,840 --> 02:11:29,320
Speaker 1: a hostage negotiation, right right.

2616
02:11:29,240 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 2: Usually you don't have your kids aren't old enough yet.

2617
02:11:33,240 --> 02:11:35,640
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, somebody can always walk away. Yeah, in a

2618
02:11:35,640 --> 02:11:38,440
Speaker 1: true hostage negotiation. Nobody can walk away. So that's been

2619
02:11:38,480 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 1: the challenge that a lot of my predecessors have had,

2620
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:42,600
Speaker 1: is how do you talk about how do you apply

2621
02:11:42,640 --> 02:11:45,000
Speaker 1: interrogation techniques to every day life?

2622
02:11:45,080 --> 02:11:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's every.

2623
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:48,560
Speaker 1: Day life is not interrogation. How do you apply law

2624
02:11:48,640 --> 02:11:50,840
Speaker 1: enforcement techniques to every day life? Every day life is

2625
02:11:50,840 --> 02:11:51,760
Speaker 1: not a criminal act?

2626
02:11:51,880 --> 02:11:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2627
02:11:52,120 --> 02:11:55,600
Speaker 1: Right, everyday life is an intelligence operation all the time.

2628
02:11:55,760 --> 02:11:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, I think we're gonna wrap it

2629
02:11:58,400 --> 02:12:01,360
Speaker 2: up that. Actually, let me let me ask you three

2630
02:12:01,440 --> 02:12:05,800
Speaker 2: rapid fire questions here, give me your opinions on these.

2631
02:12:06,760 --> 02:12:09,520
Speaker 2: Julian Nosannge Julian Nosanje.

2632
02:12:10,240 --> 02:12:11,880
Speaker 1: I don't know why we're all so afraid of him.

2633
02:12:11,920 --> 02:12:15,840
Speaker 1: I mean, wiki leaks is what it is. But he

2634
02:12:15,840 --> 02:12:19,040
Speaker 1: he was given the information. He's tried to democracize information.

2635
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:22,240
Speaker 1: He's a wanted hunted man for the sharing of secrets.

2636
02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:26,240
Speaker 1: But I mean he didn't break a law as a

2637
02:12:26,280 --> 02:12:31,600
Speaker 1: citizen of the land. Edward Snowden the exact opposite. Edward

2638
02:12:31,640 --> 02:12:35,480
Speaker 1: Snowden was an American citizen who stole American secrets and

2639
02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:37,360
Speaker 1: sold them to American enemies and has been on the

2640
02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:40,200
Speaker 1: run ever since. He went about doing the right thing

2641
02:12:40,520 --> 02:12:45,080
Speaker 1: the wrong way. And he's demonstrated by his partnership with

2642
02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:48,760
Speaker 1: all the adversarial countries against the United States that his

2643
02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:51,240
Speaker 1: alliance really has never been to the American people. It's

2644
02:12:51,240 --> 02:12:52,440
Speaker 1: always been to Edward Snowden.

2645
02:12:54,320 --> 02:12:56,800
Speaker 2: What about Ross Olbrick, You know, he don't know that name,

2646
02:12:57,240 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 2: the founder of the bitcoin platform silk Road, who's facing

2647
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:04,000
Speaker 2: like ten life sentences, but you don't know, so that's fine. Okay,

2648
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:06,600
Speaker 2: Well that's it. I think we'll wrap it up. A

2649
02:13:06,640 --> 02:13:08,920
Speaker 2: lot of good stuff there. The one the one big

2650
02:13:08,920 --> 02:13:14,800
Speaker 2: takeaway I have is just and informed and educated people.

2651
02:13:14,920 --> 02:13:17,600
Speaker 2: And we talked about like the personal responsibility. So I

2652
02:13:17,640 --> 02:13:20,360
Speaker 2: just challenge everyone just like it starts with I think

2653
02:13:20,360 --> 02:13:23,800
Speaker 2: you said self respect and self respect yourself enough, respect

2654
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:27,280
Speaker 2: yourself enough to go get informed and educated. And then

2655
02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:29,520
Speaker 2: the other thing I'd say is take the time to

2656
02:13:29,600 --> 02:13:32,400
Speaker 2: learn both sides. Right, That's like the key thing I

2657
02:13:32,400 --> 02:13:35,480
Speaker 2: think about anything else you want to leave last last

2658
02:13:35,480 --> 02:13:36,120
Speaker 2: party thoughts.

2659
02:13:36,240 --> 02:13:37,640
Speaker 1: No, it's been a pleasure to be here. Thanks so

2660
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:43,480
Speaker 1: much for having me. It's a really challenging and exciting conversation.

2661
02:13:43,640 --> 02:13:44,800
Speaker 1: I really like it when I get to have a

2662
02:13:44,800 --> 02:13:47,000
Speaker 1: conversation like this because so often I get the same

2663
02:13:47,080 --> 02:13:49,720
Speaker 1: questions the same way, and this was not that cool.

2664
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:50,120
Speaker 2: Thanks