1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert lamp and I am 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: Christian Sager. Hey, Robert, I want you to hit me 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: as hard as you can. All right, here it goes. 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: You hit me in the ear. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, No, 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: that was perfect. Are you okay? Hit me again? Now? 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: Maybe later. Man, We've got an episode to record, so, 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: as you may guess from our little uh little fight 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: club homage there, this episode is about the evolution of punching, 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: in particular fists and human beings and how we evolved 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: in the theory that our hands specifically evolved so that 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: we could fight each other. Yeah, in particular, this is 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: the theory that's been put forth by by all just 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: David Carrier from the University of Utah, and he's done 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: a number of different studies and published a number of 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: different papers um supporting this theory. And whether you agree 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: with it or not, he makes some He just makes 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: a wonderful case for it, and he's committed to this theory. Yeah. 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: I want to say he has like what five academic 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: papers published all about different parts of the body, but 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: all around this theory. Yes, the most recent of which 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: just came out in the last couple of months. Uh. 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: And in fact, we have done how Stuff works video 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: about it that you wrote and started in and there's 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: a little like article accompanying it. Yeah. Well, I think 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: the real stars of that video. But we'll get to that. 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: So see if you want, If you want something a 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: little little creepy fun, this will deliver. But for the 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: most part, we're talking about basic human evolution here, the 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: evolution of the human form and really the human function 32 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: as well, the humanity's shadows self. Yeah. Well, before we 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: get into the meat of the episode, I just want 34 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: to remind our listeners that we have a couple of 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: things going on with social media right now. We've just 36 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: started periscoping and we're doing that every Friday at noon. 37 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: We did our first one last week and it went 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 1: really well, so we're gonna try it again. We're gonna 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: try to keep going with it, uh, and we'd love 40 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: to see you there. So if you have time, you 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: have periscope on your phone or your computer or whatever, 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: check it out and uh talk to us. Yeah, we'll 43 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: have links about it on Facebook and Twitter and Tumbler 44 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: as well. Uh, and we'll be reminding you right before 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: it happened. Yeah. Absolutely, and we're blow the mind on 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: all of those social media platforms. One other thing too, 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: we were thinking we've heard that apparently it helps your 48 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: iTunes rankings if you get reviews. I'm assuming positive reviews 49 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: from your listeners. Uh, and we checked in. There haven't 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: been that many reviews in a while, especially since Joe 51 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: and I joined the show. So we're hoping that if 52 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: you could please go in and you know, if you 53 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: have time, provider review you for us over in iTunes. 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: And I just found out yesterday too. Did you know 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: we're available on Google Play now as well. Apparently they 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: have a podcast streaming service as well. Yeah that's pretty cool. 57 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: So yeah, how about the algorithm dropped by iTunes of 58 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: your an iTunes listener give us a positive review. Uh, 59 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: it helps us out because some of those reviews are 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: old like that, years and years back to when the 61 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: podcast was still in diapers, right, all right, so let's 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: get into it. Fists Punching Fight Club. Yes, so, um, 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen Stanley Kubrick's sci fi classic two 64 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: thousand one of Space Odyssey and I hope you have, 65 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: because it's it's really the stuff to blow your mind movie, 66 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: and many of us um it paints a wonderful picture 67 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: of humanity's violent evolutionary ascension, right this wonderful Dawn of 68 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: Man segment in which these early hominids, some of the 69 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: best men in monkey suits ever in eight suits if 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: you rather, just sort of mucking about and then eventually 71 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: just discovering a was technology, the technology to pick up 72 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: a tool specifically, I think like a taper of job 73 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: and just start wailing on animals and each other. Yeah. 74 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: There's this band that I like called Oxes and they 75 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: performed itself by Southwest one year and they just did 76 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: that entire scene verbatim at the end of their show. 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: It's like, like, I think they played the music that 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: was going on in it and then like they acted out. 79 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: They acted out, they showed the members of the band 80 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: acted it out. Yeah, it was pretty amusing. But yes, 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: so this brings us to the real like I think, 82 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: academic heart of this episode is a guy named David Carrier, 83 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: and he is uh if you, by the way, if 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: you google David Carrier, it turns out that there's a 85 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: bunch of other guys with that name who get higher 86 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: rankings Google than him. So you might want to add 87 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: like evolutionary or a biologist or something like that, this 88 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: would work. Yeah. He's at the University of Utah, uh, 89 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: and he has published multiple papers, like we said, and 90 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: really just has this overall theory that humanity, especially male humans, 91 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: have physically evolved over time, uh, to be fighting machines basically, 92 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: and that that is something that's inherent in us. And 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: I think what he's getting out overall is that we 94 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: now live in a society where there aren't that many 95 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: reasons for melee combat. Uh. Actually the episode that we're 96 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: kind of record after this one is about another form 97 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: of combat. But in terms of fist fighting, there aren't 98 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: that many reasons, right, not like they're there used to 99 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: be back in the good days, back back when we 100 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: used to and you know, jokingly, I think that this 101 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: is kind of the philosophical heart of Fight Club as well, right, 102 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: the the idea that that like we're made to be 103 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: hunter gatherer physical fighting machines and our primordial fisticuff roots. Yeah, 104 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: and in modern society doesn't allow us to do that. 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: So where do we how do we you know, burn 106 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: off that inherent I don't know, uh, evolutionary aesthetic. Yeah. Now, 107 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: it's it's important to note here that an in carrier 108 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: will be the first to stay this as well. Obviously, 109 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: there are a number of different factors going on in 110 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: human evolution and the ascent of man um you have. 111 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: You know, our oversized brains are our diet um some 112 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: of the just environmental scenarios that enabled us to get 113 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: to where we are now. Uh, and so his you 114 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: often encounter the idea that comes down to our tool use. Right. 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,559 Speaker 1: A tool use, of course, is an important aspect of 116 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: a humanity. Humanities of center, our ability to to like 117 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: that guy in an eight costume in two thousand one, 118 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: to pick up a tool and start using it, um 119 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: to to overpower more sophisticated predators, to overpower each other. 120 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: And certainly we have the manual dexterity to make tools, 121 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: to wield to tools. We have the brain that can 122 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: allow us to update our body schema to incorporate this 123 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: tool into our image of ourself and utilize it properly. 124 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: But UH Carrier is ultimately making the case that that 125 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the real violent aspect of humanity enters the picture along 126 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: with if not earlier than our tool using hands like 127 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: that when you look at the human hand, yes, manual 128 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: dexterity is a big part of the form, but also 129 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: the ability to punch right right. Yeah, And so from 130 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: the research that we looked at for this, most anthropologists 131 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: up until Carriers research have been saying just that that 132 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: the dexterity is the important part, and it's so that 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: we can pick up things and maybe throw things, but 134 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: especially to help us use those tools, have you know, 135 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: made us the powerful species that we are, right, But 136 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: one of the this is an important fact to throw 137 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: out there too, is that when you when it comes 138 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: to punching, no matter what you've seen and Disney is 139 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: the Jungle Book, humans are the only creatures that can 140 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: throw a punch. Yeah, you know what. I had never 141 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: thought about that before until reading Carriers research, and of 142 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: course it makes sense. But not even primates can do it, right. 143 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: We we alone, even among the primates, are the only 144 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: ones who can curl that that that hand up into 145 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: a fully buttressed fist and uh, you know, socket to them. 146 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: So the idea is that in our current form, this 147 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: evolved form, you can just look at your hand right 148 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: now and try this out. The closed fists, the fully 149 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: buttressed fist with the generally with the thumb on top. 150 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: According to the schematics we're looking at, Um, what what's 151 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: occurring here is that the closed fist protects the hands, 152 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: delicate bones, the muscles, ligaments during impacts. So Carrier's theory 153 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: says that we've we've evolved to be able to throw 154 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: that punch. There's a there's an evolutionary advantage in being 155 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: able to throw that punch in such a way to 156 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: where you can get maximum force without damaging those delicate 157 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: manual dexterity tools that that are your hands. So that 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: right there leads me to think that this isn't like 159 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: such a black and white issue within evolutionary biology and 160 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: anthropology that it's either a fist or it's manual dexterity. 161 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: I think it's both, right. I think ultimately that's the 162 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: argument he's trying to make. Otherwise he wouldn't be saying, well, 163 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: the whole purpose of a buttressed fist is to protect 164 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: the hand from getting damaged so that it can subsequently 165 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: later on go and use manual dexterity. Yeah, I mean 166 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: imagine kind of a prehistart dating game, right, and in 167 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: which you have the the lovely young woman and then 168 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: the three potential suitors. One one one of them could 169 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: throw a really hard punch, but he can only do 170 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: it every every so often because it shatters all the 171 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: all the fingers in his hands, and it's such his 172 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: his hands are garbled, a garbled mess. He can't build anything. 173 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: He's not he's not good for anything else around. He 174 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: just gets into like one fight every like two or 175 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: three months and nails it, but then he's useless. And 176 00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: then on the other hand, you have an end of 177 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: jewel who's who's wonderful around the camp for manual dexterity. Uh, 178 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: but all I can do is kind of slap and paw. 179 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: But in the middle, the sweet spot is you have 180 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: an individual who can who can buttress that fist, who 181 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: can who can punch hard, but at the end of 182 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: the day, can still do all the other things around 183 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: the camp in the tribal community that are important and 184 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: essential to passing on his jeans. Right. Yeah, And so 185 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: one thing that I think is important to distinguish here too, 186 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: if I think I have this right, is that carriers fists. 187 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: If you're listening, like maybe make a fist. Right, now, 188 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: go along with me. Here is that your four interior 189 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: fingers are folded in and your thumb is over your 190 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: second and third finger, right or sorry, rather your third, 191 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: your middle finger and your ring finger. Yes, that's how 192 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: it's depicted in the study. Is the best way to 193 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: get accomplished. This I've been fighting wrong my whole life, 194 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: I think, because I don't. I think I've been doing 195 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: it the wrong way. I think my thumb Not that 196 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: I get into fights that often, but the thumb over 197 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: I've been doing it with my thumb over my forefinger 198 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: and my middle finger. Yeah. Well, I mean I've only 199 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: been pretend punching. Yeah, I try to, you know. Go, 200 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean, just go down to the parking lot and 201 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: get a couple of swings in every once a month 202 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: or something, just to stay fresh. All right, let's get 203 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: into the research here, going back to two thousand seven, 204 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: UH carriers paper dealing with the legs of our early ancestors. 205 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: In particular, all his studies are really revolving around the 206 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: austral epits. UH. And these are creatures in the genus 207 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: austro Lepipocus, immediate predecessors of the human genus Homo. They 208 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: had heights around three ft nine inches for females and 209 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: four ft six inches for males, and they lived from 210 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: four million to two million years ago, And there's a 211 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of information on this and like I read basically 212 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: the Encyclopedia Britannica entry last night about these guys, and uh, 213 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: there are there's a lot about them. There's a lot 214 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: of subspecies, but the basic gist that I found is 215 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: that most of the fossils for this species were found 216 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: in Africa. They had small canine teeth, but they had 217 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: large cheek teeth, so you can kind of imagine that 218 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: sort of I don't know, um caveman kind of look 219 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: I think would probably be appropriate. I didn't know this, 220 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: but Lucy, that famous preserved fossilized skeleton was an australopith, 221 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: So that that if you've pictured that before, you've seen 222 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: that before. That's what we're talking about here. Uh and uh, 223 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: if the remains are older than six million years, they're 224 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: actually considered to be fossilized apes. So that I think 225 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: there's like an age difference there, uh between the six 226 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: million and the four million gap, But there's there's definitely 227 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: some evolution between the two. And the last thing, and 228 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: this is going to be important for when we're talking 229 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: about Carrier's research, is that they had these curved hands 230 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: if you can picture kind of I would imagine like 231 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: apes do today, uh, and really long toes and short thighs. 232 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: And this is important because we're gonna be talking about 233 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: the legs in particular right now. So okay, the assumption 234 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: that most anthropologists have had about australapiths up until now 235 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: is that they had short legs because they probably lived 236 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: like a treetop type culture. Their legs were used primarily 237 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: for climbing and balancing. Carrier argues, though, that he thinks 238 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: there's another reason, and this is kind of you're going 239 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: to find that with most of Carrier's research that it 240 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: it works like this, there's a presumption with an anthropology 241 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: he adds something onto it, and it's usually around fighting. 242 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: In this case, it is Uh. He says that the 243 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: reason why they have short legs is that it's advantageous 244 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: for them to be short because it gives them an 245 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: edge and grappling, which is the kind of fighting they 246 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: would probably do. Also, they have like a lower, more 247 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: stable center of gravity I'm thinking of I'm thinking of 248 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: Wolverine like in the comics, Like he's supposed to be 249 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: like short and stubby, right, and that makes him a 250 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: great fight the topple. Yeah, exactly. Uh. And this is 251 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: specifically uh in a in a paper that he wrote 252 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: for Evolution, which is called the Short Legs of Great 253 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: Apes colon Evidence for Aggressive Behavior in austro Lepith the Scenes, 254 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: and this came out in two thousand and seven, but 255 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: one of the key papers comes to us from two 256 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: thousand twelve. This is where a carrier really rolled out 257 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: the the the idea that that the the human fist 258 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: has evolved to this form because it is designed to 259 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: punch other humans face other and and other ancestors in 260 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: the pace face. So again it comes down to the 261 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: idea of the proportions of the human hand allow us 262 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: to make a fist that protects all those delicate bones, 263 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: muscles and ligaments during a you know, a josh shattering punch. 264 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: And again, no other primates or any animal for that matter, 265 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: can throw a punch. And meanwhile, our earliest ancestors may 266 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: have benefited from an evolutionary advantage and that they could 267 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: punch hard without entering Uh. These five fingered murder weapons, 268 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: so of us, your winning mates, resources, tribal honor, uh 269 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: and uh. In this particular study, Carrier also proved out 270 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: just the impact value of the punch, showing that the 271 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: punch is actually always better than a swap or a 272 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: chop because and it all comes down to the peak 273 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: strike force. The peak strike force is always the same 274 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: no matter what manner of handblow you're using, Okay, be 275 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: it a slap, a chop, a three stooges fingerpope, whatever, 276 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: whatever you're you're throwing, the peak four strike force is 277 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: always the same. But the fist delivers all this force 278 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: to a smaller area. So according to carry, the force 279 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: per area is up to three times greater with a 280 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: punch versus a good old swap. Okay. One of the 281 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: interesting things about this, this first study that he did 282 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: on fists, that I guess I didn't know even though, 283 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: like I've studied anatomy for drawing purposes, especially like hand drawing. 284 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: But male index fingers are always shorter than our ring fingers, 285 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: and that's part of being He argues that that's part 286 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: of being able to form this ideal fist, right, But 287 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: in women they're typically the same length, which I guess 288 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: I hadn't even really realized before. And maybe that's why 289 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: my drawings of women's hands have been terrible in the past. 290 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: But I mean, when I look at my hands right now, 291 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: that's certainly true. I thought of look like means you're 292 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: a wearewolf? Right, it could be that it could be 293 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: that it might be tied to the wolf, something about 294 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: like the different But yeah, so that's something I didn't realize. 295 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: And then so this gets into the his evolutionary argument 296 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: split along gender lines to that I guess he wasn't 297 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: considering Rhonda Roussi when he was thinking about fist formation. Yeah, well, 298 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: that's certainly Some of the criticism that has been leveled 299 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: at him is that that this is a very male centric, 300 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: or even bro centric view of human evolution. Yeah, and 301 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: I think that maybe this is a good time for 302 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: us to touch on I wish Joe is here because 303 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: he has a specific disdain for what is called bro science. Uh. Yeah. 304 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: And and in fact, when I was doing the research 305 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: for this article, I ran into a couple of quote 306 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: bro science articles. Uh. I guess the best way to 307 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: explain this is kind of a pseudo science repurposing scientific 308 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: principles to to to just like geek out about like 309 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: guy stuff like sports and fighting and and and uh 310 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: lifting weights and things like that. That's what I've seen mainly. 311 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: The article that I decided that I didn't feel like 312 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: the science was strong enough to include it in this 313 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: episode was from a site called Boxing Science, and it 314 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: was all about the science of boxing, and I thought, oh, well, 315 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: this might be interesting and a good uh you know, 316 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: compliment to carriers research. And it really didn't have a 317 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: whole lot of a weight to it and wasn't wasn't 318 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: very well connected, especially in regards to anatomy. But there 319 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about um uh martial science 320 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: in other research, and this was academically published, so I 321 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: did think I should bring this up. There was apparently 322 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: a study published in the Journal of Cerebral Cortex, and 323 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: the suggestion there was that punches actually start with our 324 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: brain structure. So yeah, the fist might be important, as 325 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: Carrier argues, but brains are also really important to this. 326 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: So what they did was they did brain scans of 327 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: active martial artists versus people with similar builds but with 328 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: no martial arts training, and they looked to see if 329 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: there was a correlation between the karate punchers, and they 330 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: found that there was. That the people who were trained 331 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: punchers actually had denser white matter in the supplementary motor 332 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: cortex of their brains, and that that's a section that 333 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: controls coordination between all of our different muscle groups. Right. 334 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: So you pair this together the ideas that multiple muscle 335 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: groups working together, they are doing this thing that we 336 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: refer to as or science referred to as kinetic linking. 337 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: You see this in combat, but you also see it 338 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: in stuff like golf for baseball. Right, multiple muscles all 339 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: working together so that we can accomplish these these great feats. Um. 340 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: But coordination and timing are also essential to all this 341 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: as well, which is where the brain comes in. So 342 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: the idea here is really that, yes, the fist may 343 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: be important in this research came out before uh Carrier's 344 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: most recent piece on fists, so I'd be curious with 345 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: their what the what the authors of that piece would 346 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: say about carriers research how fists are connected to brains 347 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: and vice versa, and the whole body working together. There 348 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: was a lot of articles online that took this and 349 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: then extrapolated out of it like there was a nerdous 350 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: piece and then I think that piece was linked to 351 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: a popular mechanics piece that was all about Bruce Lee's 352 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: one inch punch and the like physics behind that. And 353 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: I wait, what's the deal with a one inch punch? 354 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: It's just like a specific like Bruce Lee martial arts move. 355 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: Does that mean like there's one inch between, like it's 356 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: just a very rapid short punch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 357 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Um and if you kind of right, yeah, exactly, 358 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: you have to do that. There's good. That's the study 359 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: that's coming out in sixteen is the WAW contribution that 360 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: I think it's worth worth Both of these studies that 361 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: we've we've touched on here, I feel like they are 362 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: pretty solidly outside of any growth science area. But it's 363 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: it's picks it up and then runs with it and 364 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: starts rewriting the study and extrapolating it and uh and 365 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: and pushing a certain picture of humanity. Yeah. And even 366 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: like the press release that went out about carriers study 367 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: that came out just a couple what was it two 368 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: weeks ago? Uh stated specifically, here's our retorts to brow 369 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: science claims before before anybody even made them because they 370 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: knew that there was going to be there. I mean, yeah, 371 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: David Carrier is an accomplished biologist. Yeah. Absolutely, look at 372 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: picture of him. He looks like an accomplished biologist, right, 373 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: he doesn't. He's not like a CrossFit Jim who's trying 374 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: to use like a physics book to justify uh, you 375 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: know whatever. Alright, So two thousand fourteen, Carrier publishes a 376 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: new study and Biological Reviews and he worked with this 377 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: one on this one with physician Michael H. Morgan, and 378 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: they the key argument here is that it goes beyond fists, 379 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: that human faces also evolved to minimize injury from punches 380 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: of the face during fights between males. Uh, that's where 381 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: we tend to punch people. And I've often wondered this, 382 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: where do we Where do we first get that idea 383 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: about punching people in the face, Because even in children's films, 384 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: like I mentioned Jungle Book earlier, because when I let 385 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: my son watch it for the first time, I was 386 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: kind of a pall that all the fisticuffs. There's a 387 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: lot of punching bears, punching tigers, humans punching bears, human 388 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: bears punching human I wonder if the new c g 389 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I version is going to have all these punching, especially 390 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: because they're like c G I, actual animals rather than 391 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: like a cartoon Blue the Bear. Yeah, it'll be interesting 392 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: to see how that goes. But but yeah, that we 393 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: just have this idea of punching and groined in us 394 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: early on. But yeah, and but but the face, I mean, 395 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: I guess there must be a connection there because like, 396 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: and we've talked about this on previous episodes that like, 397 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: we think of the face and the head as being 398 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: the center of identity, right at least we do in 399 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: modern culture. We've talked previously about how Egyptians did not 400 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: actually they thought that the heart was the center of 401 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: the soul. But in our case, we have that is 402 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: sort of like a cultural belief, and I wonder if 403 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: that's where it stems from. It's like, you got to 404 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: hit them right right right where it's all going on. Well, 405 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it is very Yeah, it's a 406 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: very strategic place to strike because you have some major 407 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: since organs there. And of course the nose is a 408 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: key um key target with any kind of because it's 409 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 1: you can be broken easily to at least throw your 410 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: opponent off. You have not actually killed, right, A concussion 411 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: will certainly end the fight. But the thing so again, 412 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: like I didn't feel comfortable citing this research in the episode, 413 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: but when I was reading these boxing sites and they 414 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: were talking about, uh that some of them actually were 415 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: like consulted on Carrier's research, And basically what it came 416 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: down to was them saying, well, yeah, that sounds interesting, 417 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: but like the best place to punch somebody is actually 418 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: like in the groin, Like it's you know what I mean, 419 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: Like from their point of view, I think, in like 420 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: a martial arts or boxing contest or whatever, that's going 421 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: to maximize your efforts, right yeah, yeah, but the refs watching, 422 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: so you can't. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta have 423 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: your manager distract the ref then you do the low 424 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: blow exactly, and then you roll up for the three count. Um. 425 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: This particular study about about the faces, it is important 426 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: because I mentioned the nose weakness, and that's this is 427 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: them here. This often leveled. But this research is basically 428 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: looking back again four or five million years at those 429 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: australopith ancestors, and here we find increased robustness in the 430 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: particular facial bones that are most likely to suffer fracture 431 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: during a pummeling. And these are also the areas where 432 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: we find the greatest differences between male and female facial 433 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: structures boast, both in the australopiths and in humans, because 434 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: again the structures may have evolved, according to Carrier, in 435 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: response to male on male violence. And it's these Australopiths. 436 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Also they had a stubbier nose, so they didn't have 437 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: the clear target punched me in the center of my 438 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: face and send blood flying everywhere. That's the argument against Carrier, right, 439 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: is that the Australopith face would actually be better suited 440 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: for combat. Yeah. And the idea here too is that 441 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: that post auster epath we became we we still love 442 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: to punch each other in the face, clearly, but it 443 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: becomes less of an evolutionary driving force. Yeah. I loved 444 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: how the methodology of this research went about. So these 445 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: two guys looked at emergency room statistics from Western societies 446 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: and they found that all of the fights between quote 447 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: untrained combatants. I wonder how they got that information from 448 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: the emergency room files. Uh, most frequently resulted in injuries 449 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: to the face, which you know, like we're talking earlier, 450 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: we usually go for the face, right, So the jaw, 451 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: the cheek, bones, the nose, and in particular the bones 452 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: around our eyes are the areas that they're looking at here. 453 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: These are the areas that they're saying, why didn't our 454 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: bones evolve to be sturdier at these stress points like 455 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: early humans? Yeah? Absolutely so. This study in particular has 456 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: one major critic. I'm sure there's lots of anthropologists out there, 457 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: but the one that I found that was cited that 458 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: most was a guy named Owen Lovejoy, who at the 459 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: time worked at a Kent State university. He's a he's 460 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: a lover, not a fighter. Didn't even apply exactly, so 461 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: he's as uh. The hypothesis behind Carrier's research is what 462 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: he calls adaptation ism, and he says, essentially, what he's 463 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: doing here is assigning evolutionary purpose to a particular trait 464 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: when no such relationship actually exists. So, okay, we've got 465 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of an academic fight here. We see 466 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: this all the time, people trying to you know, stand 467 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: their ground, make their mark, point their flag. I love 468 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: Joy says that the shape of our faces are what 469 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: I guess this is a term that's used in this 470 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of biological evolution study a spandrel, and that means 471 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: that they evolved as a byproduct of other traits. So 472 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: for example, brain size or the muscles and bones that 473 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: are in our jaws that are needed for chewing. Uh, 474 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: these are why our faces are shaped the way that 475 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: they are. Not the punching thing. Yeah, I mean this 476 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: is the one of the problems you get into when 477 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: you start pulling apart these definitely different evolutionary theories. Is 478 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: there are just so many factors that are involved the 479 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: face punching sure, but yeah, also the ability to to 480 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: crunch and grind up your food. Uh, this this swelling 481 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: size of the human brain, etcetera. He also says this 482 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: goes back to our earlier sort of scene that we 483 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: were setting, where like the human female would be, the 484 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: early human female would choose for mates. He said that 485 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: early human females actually did not prize aggression in their mates. Uh. 486 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: They and subsequently they chose partners that had smaller canine teeth. 487 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: So that was a thing because you know, I think 488 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: that these early human ancestors were biting as well as 489 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: slapping and punching. Well, that's clearly an ingrained right instinct, right. Uh. 490 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: And so subsequently, the smaller canines lead to males that 491 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: cooperated with one another more and this led to the 492 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: success of the human species, or one of the things 493 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: that led to success. So he's arguing completely against the 494 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: whole fist face thing. Okay, Now, I always think to 495 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: cut off fish when when discussions like this come up, 496 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: and and I'm I'm not making a direct comparison and 497 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: cuttle fish and humans because obviously the very alien creatures 498 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: compared to one another, they're totally different environments. But when 499 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: the couple fish, you see the survival of both the 500 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: robust fighter male and the sneaky, smaller male who even 501 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: pretends to be a female in order to to mate. 502 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: And uh, it always reminds me that, you know, when 503 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: you're looking at a complex mating relationship with the creature, 504 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: there there is the potential for more than one model 505 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: that's effective. Yeah. I mean, I think that this gets 506 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: back to what we're you know, talking about from the 507 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: very beginning of Carrier's research here, that I think that 508 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: it's more than just one thing. Right. You can't just 509 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: say like, oh, we just evolved because of fists or 510 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: we just evolved because of manual dexterity. There's so many 511 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: factors that are going on there, right, And yeah, it 512 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: works really well to get published in an academic journal 513 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: if you have some kind of amazing insight with research 514 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: to back it up that says, well, hey, look at 515 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: this one thing that we haven't thought about yet. But 516 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it's exclusive right now. Of course, 517 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: Carrier again is devoted to this research, and the latest 518 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: study is pretty pretty incredible. Whether you agree with him 519 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: or not, this is just yeah, I mean, this is 520 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: this is why we wanted to do this. This is crazy. Yeah, 521 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: I've been blogging about his work for for years, but 522 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: this is the one where they came around and actual 523 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: said this on our Facebook site. The the actual study, 524 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: I want to say, like the week it came out, 525 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: and then immediately after you were like, oh, we've got 526 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: to do a video on this. So in this latest study, 527 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: this is a two fifteen published in Journal of Experimental Biology, 528 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: he attempts to level some more purely experimental data at 529 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: the theory. A theory you know again, continues to generate 530 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: some controversy and and needs some proving out, so what 531 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: do you do? Well, care and his team collected cadaver 532 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: arms from nine different individuals. They ended up being able 533 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: to actually use eight, so they have a bunch of 534 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: dead human arms. Okay, So so I'm already like this 535 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: is you had me at hello? Like like, so I 536 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: actually went and tried to access the article itself, not 537 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: the press releases surrounding it, and unfortunately it's behind a 538 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: paid firewall, so I was not able to read the 539 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: article itself. So if you are David Carrier, or you 540 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: know David Carrier, or you helped on this research, what 541 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I want to know is where do you get eight 542 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: cadaver arms? Like where do you just go and say 543 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: I need eight human arms? And they go, well why? 544 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: And I well, there's actually an interesting chapter in Mary 545 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: roaches um stuff. The deal deals just not only for 546 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: medical purposes, but even like like purely medical purpose purposes 547 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: or research purposes, but also for just like cosmetic surgery trains. Sure, yeah, 548 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: I mean obviously like people donate their bodies to science 549 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: and such, but how what I'm fascinated with is that process. 550 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a great article article, the research 551 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: is interesting, but like you start off, and you say, 552 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: all right, to pull this off, I need eight human arms, 553 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: and I need them severed from their bodies. There's got 554 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: to be a place you go and fill out that paperwork. 555 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: I want to know where that is. What the paperwork 556 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: looks like? This is we've we've got to find out 557 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: and do it. Well. It does write the question did 558 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: they get them on once? So they have to wait 559 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: for the movie? Yeah? Are these specific? Like? Like I 560 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: wonder if if he was looking for specific body types 561 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: to write, like, we know that they're their mail arms, 562 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: but like was one a lifter and the other one 563 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: was like more built like me and scrawny. You know, well, 564 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: we have his email address, we can we can just 565 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: shoot the carrier and I want to find out. Yeah, um, 566 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: so he got the arms eight eight to nine arms, right, 567 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: But that's that's not quite enough. You can't just start 568 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: slinging these around like they're dead fish and a slaps battle, right, 569 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: So what you have to do is dissect them to 570 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: expose the muscles, essentially flaying these arms and then attaching 571 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: fishing line to all the tendons so that you're essentially 572 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: making a corpse arm puppet. So you can you can 573 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: make that open hand slap. You can pull another some 574 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: more strings and make a very like rough unbuttressed fist, 575 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: which is kind of like imagine the weakest punch possible, 576 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: and that's what you have. And then the buttress fist, 577 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: the sweet spot that we've been discussing the core here 578 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: to to carryers research does all of that, and then 579 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: you still need a way to drive that puppy home, 580 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: So enter the pendulum. This pendulum device. They load the 581 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: arms into this pendulum like apparatus. And there's a wonderful 582 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: schematic for this uh in the paper. Maybe we'll end 583 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: up using that as the as the art for this episode. 584 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: At the very least, I'll link out to it so 585 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: you can see it. They have that. We don't have 586 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: a picture of it, but you have some wonderful drawings 587 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: of what it would look like. And use this pendulum 588 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: to then launch that does mbie arm straight into a 589 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: padded forth detecting dumb back. That's the best part too, 590 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: that it's a dumb balance, like, like, I get it. 591 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: Because they wanted to detect the force, they had to 592 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: use the technology and everything, but it's just like these 593 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: poor arms are just and and the other thing too, 594 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: Like again, you know, if if you do this kind 595 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: of research, please let us know. But how do you 596 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: keep a cadaver arm from rotting? Because I reading the research, 597 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: it said that it took a week of study for 598 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: each arm. So how do you keep this arm that 599 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: you've just flayed and you have hooked up to this 600 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: pendulum thing from stinking the joint up and falling apart? Well, 601 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean they had problems with one of the arms. Yeah, 602 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: that's right because like arthritis. Yeah, I believe it was 603 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: too Yeah, that you weren't able to actually manipulate it properly. Uh. 604 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: One other thing that I would add to is that 605 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: so from the other research that mentioned in particular at 606 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: punching has a lot to do not just with our fists, 607 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: but also with our brains, and that it's a full 608 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: body action, right that I need the whole body to 609 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: be able to throw the force and to you know, 610 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: execute the move precisely right, So it's not a perfect 611 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: recreation exactly like I see where he was going with this, 612 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: But I can imagine that their results would be lower 613 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: than they would be if you which you know, you 614 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: would never get the approval to do this from the university. 615 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: But if you had people just punching dumbbells, right, because 616 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: he was specifically interested here is like how much protection 617 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,959 Speaker 1: is the fist versus the slap or the unbuttress fist. 618 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: How much protection is there for the metacarpal bones and 619 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: the underlying tissue. And he they found him and his 620 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: team did find that a clinched, fully buttressed fist did 621 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: provide significant protection for the metacarpal bones. So his findings 622 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: suggested that fully buttress fist can safely strike with fifty 623 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: more force than an unbuttressed fist and more for been 624 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: an open handed slap. So and again that's safely without 625 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: damaging things. That's how much more punching. How much more 626 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: impact power you have with the with the buttressed fist. Yeah, 627 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: and again method methodologically, the way that they did this 628 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: was each arm, like I said, took a week. They 629 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: they tested the buttressed fist, then the unbuttressed fist, then 630 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: the open palm slap. So that's where they got these 631 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: figures from. So remember the next time that you get 632 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: into a fight, listeners, remember the buttressed fist because it's 633 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: going to you know, help you out. Yeah, yeah, if 634 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 1: if if you have anything, look second to think should 635 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: I should I? Should I curl it up into the 636 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: fist or should I slap Exactly? Yeah, and not only 637 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: will it do more damage, but it will also protect 638 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: your fingers so that you can type of your keyboard 639 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: the next day. Yeah, and keep that stat you role 640 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: players out there, if scenario where you get to use that, 641 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: throw that info at your d M because you love 642 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: it when the players bring a real science, say hey, 643 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: I should actually get a little boost on this attack, 644 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: and here's the science to prove it. So as we're 645 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: thinking about all this, I do want to throw out 646 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: a great quote from Carrier in the most recent two 647 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen study that that that gets to some of 648 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: the more underlying kind of philosophical aspects of this research. 649 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: He says, our research is about peace. We seek to explore, understand, 650 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: and confront human kinds violent and aggressive tendencies. Peace begins 651 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: with ourselves and is ultimately achieved through discipline, self analysis, 652 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: and an understanding of where we've come from as a species. 653 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: Through our through our research, we hope to look ourselves 654 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: in the mirror and begin the difficult work of changing 655 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: ourselves for the better. As an alternative, We suggest that 656 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: the hand proportions that allow the formation of a fist 657 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: may tell us something important about our evolutionary history and 658 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: who we are as a species. If our anatomy is 659 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: adapted for fighting, we need to be aware we always 660 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: may be haunted by basic emotions and reflective behaviors that 661 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: often don't make stance and are very dangerous in the 662 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: modern world. So this is essentially like what we're talking 663 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: about at the beginning that I think that this is 664 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: that no pun intended. The meat of his research is 665 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: that he's looking for evidence to show why human behavior 666 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: now is sort of haunted by the past. Yeah, so 667 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: we end up in this situation, Yeah, where an individual 668 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: who is not trained in martial arts will curl up 669 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: a fist and throw a punch. Why. To what extent 670 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: is that watching Jungle Book as a kid, To what 671 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 1: extent is that something that's just ingrained in a ship. 672 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: That's the part I was wondering about, is the ingrained thing, 673 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: Because I've been around a lot of babies lately. A 674 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: lot of my friends have had kids, and they've well, 675 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: that's the thing that that kind of instinctively do, is 676 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: like they don't even uh consciously do it, but they 677 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: form a fist and then just kind of wail that 678 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: arm out there, and you occasionally get clocked in the face. Uh. 679 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's just you know, inherent 680 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: genetic thing that they're just get used to their dexterity 681 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: that way, or or what you know. I have to admit, 682 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: even though I've never taken a punch to the face 683 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: from an adult, I have taken a number of really 684 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: jaws shattering We're not josh shattering, but certainly jaw rocking 685 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,959 Speaker 1: impacts from saying a toddler's head oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 686 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: They throw a lot of fourth around, and they do 687 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: so indiscriminately. Like hundreds of years from now, hundreds thousand, 688 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: millions of years from now, podcasters are going to be 689 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: looking back at how our faces evolved to deal all 690 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: these toddlers that are beating the hell out of us. Yeah, 691 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: all these head like head butt upper cuts, and then 692 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: I don't know how many times have been poked in 693 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: the eye at this point. It's crazy, half of them 694 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: by my wife from living in the same house, whether 695 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: or like It'll be like fumbling around in the morning 696 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: and then I end up taking up finger in the eye. 697 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: So even when we're not fighting each other, Uh, it's 698 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: it's it's humans. We we can't help but damnage each 699 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: other's faces exactly. Yeah, it's it's our cur and our gift, 700 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: all right. So there you have it, a little look 701 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: into the work of David Carrier and this uh fist 702 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: punch theory of evolution. Be sure to check out the 703 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: landing page for this episode because we'll have links out 704 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: to related content. It's some blog content I've done in 705 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: the past that now video as well as where you 706 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: can find the actual studies. Yeah, and of course you're 707 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: gonna be able to find this episode if you're listening 708 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: to it already, you've probably downloaded it from our RSS feed. 709 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: But go to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 710 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: You'll find that we have all kinds of related links. 711 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: But also there's blog posts there, videos there, including our 712 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: Monster Science series, which is just wrapping up it's third season. Uh. 713 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: And of course follow us on social media because we 714 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: not only post out all the stuff that we're working on, 715 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: but we also curate a lot of really cool and 716 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: weird science that's getting published around the web. Let us 717 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: help you survive the holiday. That's what it's all about, exactly. 718 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: So we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter, we're on tumbler. 719 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: All those sites were Blow the Mind and don't forget 720 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: that we're periscoping every Friday at noon again from the 721 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: Twitter handle below the Mind. And Hey, you want to 722 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: send us some old fashioned email, you have a you 723 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: have some martial arts experience you want to throw down 724 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: if you want to share some some firsthand accounts of 725 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: punch for some kinetic strikes and all this, and do 726 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: so let us know at blow the Mind at how 727 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 728 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com