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Speaker 1: How does a gorgeous young state senator end up dead

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Speaker 1: wrapped in a carpet? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at TGV eleven. Jordan

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Speaker 1: Hollington he Randolph County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene

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Speaker 1: that around five forty five PM and immediately began securing

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Speaker 1: the crime scene. Deputies, joined by Arkansas State Police's Criminal

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Speaker 1: Investigation Team. A sea of investigators spotted coming through the

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Speaker 1: former state senator's property. Neighbors living around the crime scene

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Speaker 1: chose not to go on camera because they said they're

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Speaker 1: scared to speak out, but they said, this whole ordeal

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Speaker 1: is like a mystery. Colin Smith's home located right off

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Speaker 1: Highway ninety in the Edgewood neighborhood, one that people here

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Speaker 1: told us off camera is typically quiet. You can see

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Speaker 1: the vehicles behind the crime scene tape. Neighbors told us

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Speaker 1: the red truck belongs to the former senator. That's the

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Speaker 1: vehicle she was spotted driving in about two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and the others. We are told belonged to her father

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Speaker 1: and son. As investigators arrived, neighbors said those vehicles were

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Speaker 1: left on the property. The body found outside the home

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Speaker 1: has since been taken to the state crime lab. The

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Speaker 1: condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's not good when they can't look at you and

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Speaker 1: tell make an identification of your body. We are talking

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Speaker 1: about a gorgeous young Arkansas senator found dead wrapped in

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Speaker 1: a carpet with me an all star panel judge and

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer, Court TV anchor Ashley Wilcott. For now, it's psychoan.

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Speaker 1: Let's joining me out of Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six. Here's Seattle PD twenty two of

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Speaker 1: that in homicide. Author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary

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Speaker 1: Jane Grant, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University and author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet Death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. But

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Speaker 1: to Levi Page Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about the victim, Linda Collins Smith, stunning

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Speaker 1: successful Arkansas senator. But let me ask you this, what

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Speaker 1: was the state of her marriage, she had been divorced. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she was married to a judge and had been divorced.

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Speaker 1: You know what to you, Ashley Walcott, you're a judge

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Speaker 1: and a trial lawyer, court TV anchor. When you mix

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Speaker 1: a judge with politics, I mean, what did they talk

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Speaker 1: about it? Can you imagine? Yeah? Yeah, No you can't

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Speaker 1: because you're gonna argue. I mean that's what I think.

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Speaker 1: It's going to end up an argument unless you say

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Speaker 1: we're not going to discuss at the home, in which

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Speaker 1: case you have nothing to say to each other. So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, as you know, when a death occurs,

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Speaker 1: when a murder, of course, this is such a murder.

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Speaker 1: They can't even identify her body. You immediately look at

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Speaker 1: the spouse. But let's talk about in the fact that

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Speaker 1: they cannot identify Linda Colin Smith's body talking about an

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Speaker 1: Arkansas senator to Joseph Scott, Morgan death investigator and professor forensics,

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Speaker 1: what does that tell you right off the bad Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: they can't even identify that it's her. Yes, it's near

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Speaker 1: her home. Yes, she's wrapped in a carpet. I believe

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Speaker 1: came out of her home. But they can't identify her.

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Speaker 1: That's not good, Joe Scott. No, it's not Nancy. And

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Speaker 1: here's the problem. She's been down or deceased long enough

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Speaker 1: where decomposition has advanced to the point where she's not recognizable.

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Speaker 1: You can't look at her body and say this is her.

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Speaker 1: That means that they're going to have to go to

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Speaker 1: greater scientific links in order to try to get her identified.

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Speaker 1: In One troubling part to all of this is the

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Speaker 1: fact where she been. You've got her wrapped in a

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Speaker 1: carpet and she's found on the property, But where has

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Speaker 1: she been all of this period of time so that

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Speaker 1: she could get to this point of advanced decomposition where

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Speaker 1: they can't identify her. And as as an investigator, that

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Speaker 1: tells me a lot. That means that somebody had possession

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Speaker 1: of her, that they had sequestered her or hidding her

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Speaker 1: away at some point in time, and that that's going

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Speaker 1: to hiding her, hiding her dead body. And she's see

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Speaker 1: what I hear that the body was in such a

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Speaker 1: bad state there could be no visual identification made. I

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Speaker 1: just assume that somebody used a shotgun and blasted her

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Speaker 1: face off. But you're thinking it was because of position. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the first thing that I'm thinking of, that she's

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Speaker 1: been down that long and and that they can't they

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Speaker 1: can't identify it. Now, if she was disfigured as a

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Speaker 1: result of some type of trauma, that's only going to

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Speaker 1: add another level to this as far as getting her identified.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Joe Scott Morgan, It's always a treat

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Speaker 1: to talk to you, because now I get to think

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Speaker 1: about who would hold her dead body and keep it?

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Speaker 1: What at the dinner table? What do you do with

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Speaker 1: a dead body as it decomposes and you keep it

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Speaker 1: for that long? Now this is Joseph Scott Morgan's theory,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, we definitely need a shrink to doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall keeping a dead body as it decomposes, And

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Speaker 1: that's a whole other mindset right there. You know, people

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Speaker 1: who keep a dead body while it decomposes, I think

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Speaker 1: fall into one of two categories. One category is that

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Speaker 1: they're great mostly mentally ill, schizophrenic, something like that, they

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Speaker 1: have a paranoid delusion, they kill a family member, then

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Speaker 1: they're too low functioning to dispose of the body. But

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Speaker 1: I don't suspect that was the case in this particular incident.

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Speaker 1: The second category is somebody who kills the victim, in

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Speaker 1: this case the senator, but has not sought in advance

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Speaker 1: to prepare a dump fight for the body, has not

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Speaker 1: thought about what they're going to do with the body.

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Speaker 1: And as we've discussed repeatedly on this show, it takes

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Speaker 1: an enormous amount of energy to get rid of a

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Speaker 1: dead body. I mean, some people will cut the body

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Speaker 1: into pieces, put it into a suitcase, drop it into

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Speaker 1: the river. But whoever the perpetrator the killer was in

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Speaker 1: this particular instance, did not think it through to the end.

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Speaker 1: So those are the two choices you're giving me someone

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Speaker 1: who's so low functioning they can't figure out how to

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Speaker 1: get rid of a dead body. Or two? Well, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the second one? Two? Two? Well, the second one

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Speaker 1: would be somebody who's angry and murderous enough to kill her,

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Speaker 1: but they have not a thrill. I got another category

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Speaker 1: for you. Let me just call it the Ted Bundy category,

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Speaker 1: where you kill the victim, yea, but then you keep

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Speaker 1: the body for fun. Remember how he would then continue

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Speaker 1: to molest the dead body, He would bathe the dead body,

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Speaker 1: he would apply makeup and do the dead body's hair.

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Speaker 1: That is not somebody a low functioning, That is not

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Speaker 1: somebody that hasn't planned. That is a freak. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you call him, doctor Bethany. I'm sure some

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Speaker 1: really long word. Go ahead, hit me with the long word. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: this would be like the woman that the young woman

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Speaker 1: that went missing from the coffee kiosk in Seattle and

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Speaker 1: the killer who took her. Then Samantha Konig, Amantha Konig

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Speaker 1: Bene her body was frozen. He moved it to him.

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Speaker 1: Keys is the real keys sewed her eyes shut, put

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Speaker 1: her up, didn't he get her eyes open, sewed them open,

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Speaker 1: and pictures of her, applied makeup, braided her hair, took

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Speaker 1: pictures of her. Yes, that's the third category. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of gross apparently, I mean not to tell you

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Speaker 1: your business. Beverly Hills psychoanalyst. I'm always impressed with that.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you don't see a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: bodies with her eyes sewn open out on Rodeo Drive.

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Speaker 1: So that gives me a whole other category of who

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Speaker 1: would keep this body? And again this has just got

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Speaker 1: Morgan's working theory that the body was kept. Crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the death the

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Speaker 1: murder a gorgeous young Arkansas State senator. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at ka ARK four. This is Tyler Thomason.

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Speaker 1: When the former senator was found outside her Pocahona's home,

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Speaker 1: authorities say she was unrecognizable. Less than twenty four hours later,

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Speaker 1: a judge sealed all documents pertaining to the case, and

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Speaker 1: detectives remained tight lipped about the ongoing investigation. Crime scene

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Speaker 1: tape covers every corner of Linda Collins Smith's home Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: outlining the beginning stages of a murder investigation. Police say

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Speaker 1: a woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The

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Speaker 1: Randolph County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene that around

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Speaker 1: five forty five pm. Condition of the body prevented any

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Speaker 1: immediate positive identification. Authorities have stopped short of confirming whether

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Speaker 1: the victim is the former state senator, but sources say

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Speaker 1: it was her, indicating that she was found shot to death.

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Speaker 1: As far as what happened, investigators haven't said much else

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Speaker 1: and don't plan to anytime soon. Third Judicial District Circuit

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Speaker 1: Judge Harold Irwin has issued a sealed an order sealing

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Speaker 1: the documents and statements ordered are obtained by the police

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Speaker 1: during this investigation. Okay, let me go to you. Cloy Styker,

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Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle PD twenty two of that homicide

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Speaker 1: and author of Seattle's Aregotten serial killer Gary Jane Grant, Cloyd,

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Speaker 1: why would a judge seal the investigative files? Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a really unusual thing. Usually some high profile case,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously is but there have to be something

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Speaker 1: there that is that the prosecutor and the detectives do

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Speaker 1: not want released right away that they think will happen

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Speaker 1: their investigation. That's the only reason that would ever happen.

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Speaker 1: You know. What else is interesting, Cloyd, is that under

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Joseph Scott Morgan's theory, the body was kept

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Speaker 1: for a period of time until it went into advanced decomposition.

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Speaker 1: But yet it's brought back to the home and wrapped

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Speaker 1: in a rug when it's found. That's odd. Why do

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Speaker 1: you what do you make of someone wrapping the body

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Speaker 1: in a rug, Cloyd Steiger, Well, wrapping a body in

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Speaker 1: a rug is relatively common because there's there's rugs on

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Speaker 1: the floor. You just roll the person in it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the body was transported away and

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Speaker 1: transported back, but that takes a lot of work. It's very,

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Speaker 1: very difficult to do. And again, why would you bring

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Speaker 1: it back in the house. So, I mean it's just

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Speaker 1: they're trying to conceal the body obviously, and wrapping it

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Speaker 1: in the carpet will actually wrapping in anything will accelerate

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Speaker 1: the decomposition. And so she's probably a mess with the

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Speaker 1: open Yeah. And you know another thing Cloyd Steiger with

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Speaker 1: me thirty six years Seattle, PD twenty two with that homicide.

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Speaker 1: Another thing we cannot discount is when it's a random killing.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say some burglar broke in to steal stuff,

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Speaker 1: they see her, and they shoot her. They don't usually

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Speaker 1: stick around to conceal the body. Yeah, they don't. Random killings.

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Speaker 1: You don't even just wrapping the body in a rug.

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Speaker 1: There would be no reason you don't see that when reason.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is, first of all, burglars when they

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Speaker 1: get interrupted run they don't shoot people or kill people that.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people try to use that

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Speaker 1: when they're staging has seen it must have been a

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Speaker 1: burglary interrupted, but that almost never happened, the person runs,

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Speaker 1: unless the reason for the burglary in the first place

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Speaker 1: was to kill, a rape or something like that. You're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. Random burglars, random killers do not take the time.

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Speaker 1: They may shoot and go and leave. They're gone, they

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Speaker 1: want out of there, and they don't take time to

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Speaker 1: stage the scene. To you, Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the

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Speaker 1: death an investigator, what does it tell you that she

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Speaker 1: Senator Linda Collins Smith was wrapped up in a carpet. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that, as was pointed out earlier, if I recall,

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Speaker 1: the carpet originated from within that very residence, and so

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Speaker 1: that gives us some kind of connection between the perpetrator

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Speaker 1: or whoever was it wrapped her up and deposited her there.

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Speaker 1: That means that they were within the interior of that

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Speaker 1: residence at some point time and grab that carpet wrapped

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Speaker 1: her body up in it. Another big thing here is

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Speaker 1: also why would you go to the trouble of wrapping Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that you want to contain if she's been traumatized,

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Speaker 1: which obviously she has, you want to contain the blood.

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Speaker 1: But also does this go to an issue of maybe

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Speaker 1: like face covering which is something that we see where

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Speaker 1: people that are intimately involved with an individual, well shoot

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Speaker 1: an individual or kill an individual, and then covered their

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Speaker 1: face because literally, and this is more in doctor Bethany's area,

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Speaker 1: but literally, they can't abide having that person's face in

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Speaker 1: their field of view because they have an intimate relationship

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Speaker 1: with them. And we'll see this acted out periodically in

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Speaker 1: these cases of intimate violence where you know you don't

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Speaker 1: want to see the person's face that you've just literally slaughtered. Now,

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Speaker 1: I's thinking about a case where a young woman twenty

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Speaker 1: one ish accused of murdering her mother put a wicker

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Speaker 1: trash basket over her mother's head. Wait, wait, we see

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Speaker 1: it all the time. I don't necessarily understand it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm with Joe Scott Morgan on this. There's something about

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Speaker 1: seeing your murder victim's face. You can't stand. What is that,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, He's right, this is your promise. Well, it

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Speaker 1: could either be that you it's a final superficial act

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Speaker 1: of kindness you want to provide some covering. But I

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Speaker 1: think most off, I would think the trash can over

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Speaker 1: the head is you don't want the victim looking at you.

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Speaker 1: You don't want them to see what you've done, which

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Speaker 1: I think is often why victims are shot in the

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Speaker 1: back of the head. It is because the perpetrator wants

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Speaker 1: not only an element of surprise, but they don't want

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Speaker 1: that person to know what they're going to do. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to be seen, even in death. They don't

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Speaker 1: want recognition on the other person's face. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in this case, Nancy, she was wrapped in a blanket

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Speaker 1: under a tarp at the end of her driveway. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not a death investigator, but I know human behavior,

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Speaker 1: and somehow it seems that whoever did this to the

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Speaker 1: senator did at some point decide they were going to

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Speaker 1: get rid of the body, but they only made it

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Speaker 1: as far at the end of the driveway. So I

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Speaker 1: also wonder, you know, who cliff carried a body in

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Speaker 1: a tarp, you know, wrapped in a rug to the

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Speaker 1: end of a driveway. Why deposit it there? Most surely

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Speaker 1: it's going to be found. There was this person trying

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Speaker 1: to make a hasty getaway and then just thought thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: screw it, I'm just going to leave her there, and

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Speaker 1: then they just drove off or did they stage the

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Speaker 1: body at the end of the driveway because they wanted

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Speaker 1: everyone to know that they had killed her. I mean

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Speaker 1: that to me is a very curious part of this

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Speaker 1: crime scene. Nancy. I gotta say one more thing, and

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Speaker 1: you know, relative to what Bessanie was just commenting on,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this is really far afield, but what else

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Speaker 1: did we put at the end of our driveway, those

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Speaker 1: of us that live in neighborhoods, And maybe yeah, we

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Speaker 1: put trash at the end of the driveway. And so

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Speaker 1: if you continue with that logic, did this individual that

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Speaker 1: had taking this poor woman's life, did she view her

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Speaker 1: as something that can just be tossed away just like

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Speaker 1: a piece of debris, or could it have been to

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Speaker 1: Cloyd Stiger joining me thirty six years Seattle PD, just

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Speaker 1: go with me for a moment, because Joe Scott just

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Speaker 1: gave me an idea. Could the killer have possibly thought

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Speaker 1: that the body would be picked up by the trash

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Speaker 1: and disposed of without realizing what it was? Kloyd, maybe

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Speaker 1: you have much more, much more like well success in

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Speaker 1: that if you're in a garbage can or a machine

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Speaker 1: picks it up. But if some person has to pick

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Speaker 1: that up, they're going to go what the hecks are

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Speaker 1: wrong with this, and it's going to be much more

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Speaker 1: heavy than I rolled up a carpet should be. But

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott and Bethne were both right. I've been to

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Speaker 1: many scenes where the face was covered or turned on

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Speaker 1: a murder victim and it ended up being it's either

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Speaker 1: someone the person knows intimately or someone who kind of

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Speaker 1: displays a person I know intimately with that victim or

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Speaker 1: that person represents. And so that's really really common. Haven't

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Speaker 1: thought of that symbolic transference of hatred and homicidal intent,

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Speaker 1: that you know the victim or the victimsty placing someone

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Speaker 1: in your mind that you want to kill. Crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, a beautiful young Arkansas Senator Linda Collins

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Speaker 1: Smith dead, rolled up in a carpet, blanket, tarp and

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Speaker 1: her body vastly decomposed, then left on the senator's own

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Speaker 1: property well immediately the investigation starts. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: ka r K four Tyler Thomas. Court documents revealed the

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Speaker 1: former senator was in the process of divorcing her husband,

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Speaker 1: retired Judge Philip Smith. Hearing in that case was scheduled

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Speaker 1: later this month, and according to documented testimony the couple

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Speaker 1: were at odds over money after selling a local hotel

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Speaker 1: for more than a million dollars. The x lawmaker's former

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Speaker 1: spokesperson tells us the divorce quote was not pleasant. He

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Speaker 1: also says Collins Smith remained active on social media, but

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Speaker 1: appeared to go silent more than a week ago. An

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Speaker 1: old campaign sign sits just beyond the police tape, marking

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Speaker 1: a time when constituents looked to Linda for answers. Now

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Speaker 1: they look elsewhere for answers in her death. The sheriff says,

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Speaker 1: at state police are leading this homicide investigation. Okay, out

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Speaker 1: to you Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi,

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Speaker 1: you told me the divorce was over. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: they were finding over a million dollars sale of a

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Speaker 1: local hotel, your Craig, Nancy, that was the business she

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Speaker 1: owned with her Spanky Spanky, Yes, that was the business

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Speaker 1: that she owned with her. EXE got married right after

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Speaker 1: she passed away. The divorce was finalized after that. Whoa

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait wait wait, wait, wait stop. Right

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Speaker 1: after his former wife, the senator the one rolled up

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Speaker 1: in the blank at the carpet at the end of

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Speaker 1: the driveway with the traps the Dixie dumpster. Yes, how

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Speaker 1: soon after that did he remarry immediately? It sounded like

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Speaker 1: he was with her while the divorce was ongoing, and

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Speaker 1: then when she died, the divorce obviously is finalized, so

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Speaker 1: he remarried very quickly. Well, I guess that's one way

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Speaker 1: of finalizing and divorces for your wife to end up

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Speaker 1: in a tarpet the end of the driveway. Money money,

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Speaker 1: you know. Another thing. Whenever I hear of a police

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Speaker 1: officer or an investigator. We just covered a female cop

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Speaker 1: I believe in Long Island planning to kill her husband

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend's daughter, I think, wait, how did they

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Speaker 1: suddenly end up on the wrong side of the law.

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Speaker 1: Floyd Siger, thirty six year SEATTLEPD. Do you think sometimes

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Speaker 1: that cops, investigators DA's are around criminals so much? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you walk through them, even if you're wearing hip mates,

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Speaker 1: walk through the mud every day and not check sometime

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Speaker 1: to the living room carpet? I mean, well, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. You know, they see this stuff and

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Speaker 1: some of them may think I can get away with this.

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Speaker 1: But also police departments are made up of humans. To

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Speaker 1: have human emotions just like everybody else, and sometimes those

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Speaker 1: emotions go haywire and they do stupid stuff like this, Nancy, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: there's actually robust research that indicates that sociopaths and psychopaths

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Speaker 1: gravitate towards positions of power. So they want to become cops,

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Speaker 1: they want to become death investigators. They want to carry

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Speaker 1: a gun and have handcuffs and all of that. And

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Speaker 1: that's why there's very sific psych testing that police officers

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Speaker 1: have to go through before they before they can get

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Speaker 1: a job within a police department, is to screen out

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Speaker 1: these kinds of unsavory characters. I have a colleague that

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Speaker 1: does testing for police departments here in Los Angeles, and

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Speaker 1: so she does fitness for duty reviews, and she says

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Speaker 1: that there are a fair number of cadets who come

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Speaker 1: into her office and will all of a sudden start

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Speaker 1: talking about guns and how they love guns and they

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Speaker 1: have a stash of guns and they've been fascinated with

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Speaker 1: guns since they were little kids. And she will write

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Speaker 1: a letter to the police department and say, denied, don't

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Speaker 1: hire this person. Jay Scott just say, you know, you

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Speaker 1: definitely heard her mentioned death investigators. Okay, so I think

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much aimed right at You. Eticed that because

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Speaker 1: I remember and all the years that I prosecuted, I

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Speaker 1: would come across the cop and I would visualize I

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Speaker 1: could actually see them committing a murder. There was just

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Speaker 1: something snaps. And all the years they're devoted to crime

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Speaker 1: fighting and doing the right thing, they've been around criminals.

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Speaker 1: I sought a lot with defense attorneys. I'd be trying

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Speaker 1: to reach a defense attorney about a trial on Monday.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, where is he. Oh, he's down at Magic City,

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Speaker 1: this trip club with some of his clients. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: not judging, but some of his cocaine clients at this

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Speaker 1: trip club. So my point is, when you start hanging

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Speaker 1: around with criminals, somehow, at first you're shocked. Then somehow

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Speaker 1: you become desensitized to it, and then after a while,

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Speaker 1: maybe to some people, it doesn't seem like such a

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Speaker 1: bad idea. Ashley, Yeah, I was gonna say, Nancy, I

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Speaker 1: see it often, unfortunately, and they do become immune to

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Speaker 1: it because they're absorbed into a world. But it first

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Speaker 1: is shocking and criminal, and then they're absorbed into a

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Speaker 1: think of well, this is the norm, this is what

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Speaker 1: I know of criminal defense attorney who only represents criminals

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Speaker 1: does become a little bit immune to and it's like,

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Speaker 1: this is the world I live in, and this is

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Speaker 1: what it is. It's quote unquote normal. And I do

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Speaker 1: think the same happens to officers law enforcement. No, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they become criminal, but it does mean that

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Speaker 1: they live in an underbelly of a world that's very

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Speaker 1: different than the rest of us live in. And if

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Speaker 1: they have any predisposition, or if they have any not

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Speaker 1: good morals, that's really good English. I know I just used.

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Speaker 1: But if their morals are not good, then they can

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Speaker 1: cross that line and become the criminal themselves. And I've

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Speaker 1: seen it in court with criminal defendants. And another issue

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Speaker 1: to crime online got com investigate a reporter leave by page.

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Speaker 1: I mean the husband who rushed down the marriage aisle

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Speaker 1: as soon as his ex is found dead down with

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Speaker 1: the trash jumpster at the end of the driveway. He's

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Speaker 1: a judge or a former judge, and I assume that

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Speaker 1: police handled him with kid gloves because having been on

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Speaker 1: the bench. Asked Nancy. He was questioned immediately after Linda

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Speaker 1: Collins was found murdered that he was not considered a suspect.

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Speaker 1: You know it's ironic. As a senator, Colin Smith introduced

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Speaker 1: multiple bills to expand the places where concealed weapons could

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Speaker 1: be carried, and then ends up dead by gunshot wound.

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Speaker 1: You know, Joseph's got more guilty? Can I correct something? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Jump in So earlier reports said that she was shot,

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Speaker 1: but in aff the davids that were released, it turned

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Speaker 1: out that she was not actually shot. She was actually

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Speaker 1: stabbed that multiple time. Yeah, for some reason, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, A stabbing seems so much more violent than

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Speaker 1: a shooting. What is that? I mean both ways you

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Speaker 1: end up dead. Well, stabbing is so intimate. I mean

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Speaker 1: when you stabbed somebody, you don't just want them dead,

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Speaker 1: say as a drive by shooting, where you want to

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Speaker 1: see your victim dropped to the ground. But there's nothing

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Speaker 1: personal in it other than that. When you use a knife,

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Speaker 1: it's extremely personal. And also you've gotten close enough if

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Speaker 1: you're in the victim's home to gain that person's trust.

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Speaker 1: You have to be close. If there was no sign

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Speaker 1: of a break in or a home invasion, This person

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Speaker 1: was in her home, this person knew her, This person

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Speaker 1: used a knife, and this person had intimate homicidal rage.

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Speaker 1: I know the husband was ruled out as a suspect,

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Speaker 1: but I think whoever did this did know her. And

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Speaker 1: as you know, the preponderance of murders are are committed

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Speaker 1: by our intimates, not by strangers, because it's in the

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Speaker 1: context of our most intimate relationships. As we often talk

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Speaker 1: about that humans experienced envy, rage, jealousy, rejection. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at her picture, Nancy, she's gorgeous, she's powerful,

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Speaker 1: she's at the peak of society. She's pasty, legislator, legislation

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Speaker 1: and bill. So there are a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: could envy her, admire her, stock her, or want a

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Speaker 1: piece of her, want to get close to her, want

427
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: to be intimate with her. It seems like there's a pool,

428
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: endless pool of people who either knew her because she

429
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: was powerful in society, or imagine they knew her and

430
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: wanted to be up close and personal in some way

431
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: Nancy relative to kind of Dovetailing with what Bethany said

432
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: regarding the knife trauma and how this is almost a

433
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: ripping to shreds of this individual, this gives us an

434
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: indication as to what condition the body was in when

435
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: a medical examiner does an initial assessment, or the police,

436
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: for instance, if that's who it was at the scene,

437
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: when they cannot differentiate between a gunshot wound and a

438
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: sharp force injury, that gives you an indication that they're

439
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: looking at something that's very muddled. It can either be

440
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: muddled by severe trauma or it can be muddled by decomposition,

441
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: where you have to give the body into a position

442
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: where you can examine it in very intense circumstances. They

443
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: like back at the problem. Bottom line, they stabbing was

444
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: so bad at first they thought it was a gunshot wound.

445
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want you to

446
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: listen now. We're talking about the murder of a gorgeous

447
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 1: young state senator. Take a listen to t J. Holmes

448
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: on GMA. A shocking mystery that turned heads news of

449
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Arkansas police investigating a cold blooded killing of a former

450
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: state senator, Linda Colin Smith, who was found wrapped in

451
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: a blanket outside her home on June fourth. Police remained

452
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: tight lipped for days, but later they say they found

453
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: the suspect friend and former colleague Becky Lynn o'donald, who

454
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: was now facing charges of capital murder, abuse of Colin

455
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: Smith's body, and tampering with physical evidence. She is sad

456
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: that this is hurting her family, but she's angry and

457
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: she's strong. Who she met at whoever arrested her in

458
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: WHA o'donald is spending a second week in jail, and

459
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: her fiance, Tim Logan's claims police have made a huge

460
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: and inexplicable error. She has been arrested now for capital

461
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: murder and you and Becky don't have any idea why,

462
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: none whatsoever. Login says he was the one to break

463
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: the news to o'donald. I just told her they found

464
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Linda dead and she collapsed. You are hearing our friends

465
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: at GMA, and speaking is the senator's aid, her right

466
00:29:53,080 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: hand fiance. That's who you're here speaking O'Donnell, her right arm,

467
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: Rebecca Lynn. O'Donnell had been this close to her for

468
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: so long, and now she's arrested for the senator's murderer.

469
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: Take a listen again to t J. Holmes. After O'Donnell's arrest,

470
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: Colin Smith's family was stunned, releasing a statement saying we

471
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: are sickened and upset that someone so close to Linda

472
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: would be involved in such a terrible, heartless crime. But

473
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: Logins is asking for help to clear his fiance's name,

474
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: saying he believes the real killer is still out there.

475
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: Has it crossed your mind for a moment, just in

476
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: some late night alone, were you questioned, well, maybe Becky

477
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: is capable of this. Becky's not capable of this. You

478
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: haven't had every question at all. No, I mean either

479
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: she is a best actress in the world and a

480
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: sociopath and completely fooled me. Well, there's not a chance

481
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: she did this, straight out to Levi page Clime online

482
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Levi, who is Becky O'Donnell? So,

483
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: Rebecca Linn O'Donnell is Linda Collins friend and business manager

484
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: for her business, and she was the last person to

485
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: see Linda Collins alive. She dropped food lunched off at

486
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: her home May twenty eight, and security cameras set up

487
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: in the home captured her on the security camera and

488
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: it also captured her taking down security cameras in the

489
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: home as well. Wow. Okay cooy Siger thirty six years

490
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: Seattle PD twenty two of that on homicide. Why would

491
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: you go into a home and take down the video

492
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: recording cameras unless it was for a nefarious reason. Yeah,

493
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: in my business, we call that a clue, right. I mean,

494
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: it's obviously she didn't want to be paid inside the house.

495
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: And you know, I would also look at she was

496
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: her business manager. Maybe she was feeling from the business

497
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: and got caught and that's what started this whole thing.

498
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, but that's that's interesting. I hadn't heard

499
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: that she was a business manager. And she's a friend

500
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, me too, Doctor Bethany Marshall, do you remember

501
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: Selena up I was just looking at that beautiful, gorgeous

502
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: to Hannah Singer who was murdered by her number one

503
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: obsessive fan. Yes. Here, Rebecca Lena O'Donnell was all up

504
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: in Linda Collins Smith's business. Yes, and now she's charged

505
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: with murder. Yeah. So I think what we saw with

506
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: the head of the fan club for Selena's and what

507
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: we might be seeing with Rebecca Linn O'Donnell is Rebecca

508
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: might have been one of these kinds of women who

509
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: wanted to be the senator, admired the Senator, wanted to

510
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: gain proximity to Linda Collins Smith m put her on

511
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: a pedestal, idealized her, but then envied her all at

512
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: the same time. And in my field, we feel that

513
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: envy is the belief that if you have something good,

514
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: I have to destroy it because I don't believe that

515
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: you can have something good and I can have something

516
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: good and we can collaborate and create something good together.

517
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: So people who are envious always want to destroy the

518
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: object of their envy. And in this case, O'Donnell may

519
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: have has taken it to a murderous pathological level. But Nancy,

520
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: we don't think of females as being stalkers in this

521
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: kind of way. But it could be that this so

522
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: called business manager was putting her tentacles in everywhere, like

523
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: hoiz koid Steiger mentioned, Perhaps she was embezzling. Perhaps she

524
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: was thinking, Oh, you don't deserve this money after the

525
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: sale of this motel. This should be my money. I'm

526
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: the one who's done all this work for you. Why

527
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: are you benefiting? You shouldn't be in Congress, you shouldn't

528
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: be a senator. I should be there. I am the

529
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: more beautiful one, I'm the smarter one. So in a

530
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: way she has to block the senator out because she

531
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: can't stand the senator's success. No one in the inner

532
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: circle seems to believe that Becky O'Donnell could murder State

533
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: Senator Linda Collins Smith. Take a listen to ABC needs

534
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: correspondent Marcy Gonzalez new insight into the connection between a

535
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: former Arkansas state senator killed at her home and her

536
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 1: former campaign staff are arrested in connection. It comes as

537
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: a shock. Linda Collins Smith was found shot to death

538
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: on June fourth. Days later, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell updated her

539
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: Facebook profile picture to this smiling image of them together.

540
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: Than Friday, without explanation, police took O'Donnell into custody. The

541
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: investigation is presently at a critical juncture and no further

542
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: informational way released at this time. ABC News Station KAI

543
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: reporting that O'Donnell recently appeared as a corroborating witness and

544
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: Colin Smith's divorce case. And we're told the two were

545
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: good friends. They were all fighters for the Second Amendment,

546
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: and so they would you know, you'd see them at events,

547
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: travel together. This weekend, family, friends and colleagues gathered for

548
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: Colin Smith's funeral, remembering her as a loving mother and

549
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: tough legislator. She was courageous, she was undaunted. I mean

550
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the behind the scenes things and politics

551
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: that was so bad and quite frankly brutal. She would

552
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: keep fighting. But I don't understand is motive to leave

553
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: ipage Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What do we

554
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: know about potential motive? Well, Nancy, a lot of people

555
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: think that money. Then maybe the motive here because Rebecca

556
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: Linn O'Donnell managed the business of that hotel where it

557
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: was sold as part of the divorce. And also, Nancy,

558
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: what we haven't mentioned is you played the audio of

559
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: Rebecca O'Donnell's fiance, Tim Logans. He actually was the power

560
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: of attorney for the murder victim, Linda Colin Smith. Guys,

561
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at her track

562
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: record for those people. Steel insisting that Rebecca Lenn O'Donnell

563
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,959
Speaker 1: aka Becky O'Donnell is innocent. Well, it ain't over yet.

564
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: Listen to this. I hope you're sitting down. Here's KLRT

565
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: Fox sixteen Mandy Noel. She's accused this morning of trying

566
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: to set up a murder from behind bars Rebecca O'Donnell

567
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: is in jail, now charged with murdering Linda Collins. On

568
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: top of the capital murder charge, Rebecca O'Donnell is now

569
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: facing two counts of solicitation to commit capital murder and

570
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: tampering with physical evidence. The new charges were filed in

571
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: Jackson County's Circuit Court. We're told four inmates say O'Donnell

572
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: talked to them about killing Collins's former husband and making

573
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: it look like a suicide. Investigators say O'Donnell wanted the

574
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: man's current wife to be killed too. Court documents claimed

575
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: she offered to pay the inmates in gold and over all.

576
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 1: This is happening from inside the Jackson County jail. Pay

577
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: them in gold and silver. You know, I always watched

578
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: those commercials on TV about getting gold instead of you know,

579
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: having a checking account. Where are you gonna bury it

580
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: in the backyard. She's gonna pay these people with gold

581
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: and silver. Okay, that's a whole other cannon worm spet

582
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: in a nut. I was Judas hyscarian, didn't Judas yes?

583
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: Leave page? Now she wants the ex husband and the

584
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: wife did yes, Nancy. So this started when she was

585
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: behind bars and she was talking to fellow inmate and

586
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: allegedly she was devising this plot to have Linda Collins

587
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: ex husband Bill Smith, a former judge, killed, and she said,

588
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: I want him to be killed, and I want you

589
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: to leave a suicide note behind, and I also want

590
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: you to kill his current wife to make it look

591
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: like a murder suicide. And they, she said, in their

592
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: home they have gold and silver worth about thirty grand.

593
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Take that and that would be your reward. Well, you

594
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: know what, I guess one dead body was not enough

595
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: for her. We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace climbs story,

596
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,