Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories,
Speaker 2: Dune Done. Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Lisa, my name is Kara. We're your
Speaker 1: co hosts. We take you on a world win adventure
Speaker 1: of a recap of an episode of SVU, a deep
Speaker 1: dive into the true crime was based on and an
Speaker 1: interview with an iconic guest usually and today's no different.
Speaker 1: But first we catch up, we chat, we banter, and
Speaker 1: we have just so much to talk about. We are
Speaker 1: fresh off of a Northeast tour. I love that you
Speaker 1: said adventure in that little intro part. That was cute
Speaker 1: below deck adventure. That's us be Yeah, we just got
Speaker 1: back from New York, Boston, Philly, Hartford. We had the
Speaker 1: best time. You guys are the best listeners ever. Everybody
Speaker 1: was so fun. The shows were awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all on hies that met us after we're definitely
Speaker 2: like those people really like you, and we're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and we like them. They're educated, they're fun, they tip well,
Speaker 2: We're obsessed.
Speaker 3: They dressed cool.
Speaker 2: Someone in Philly showed up in Amanda Rollins cosplay like
Speaker 2: head to toe hand leather, a little silky blouse, little booties.
Speaker 2: I mean it was more of you need to start
Speaker 2: dressing and cosplay. She really blew me away. I was
Speaker 2: so shout out to that.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, just okay, we our New York show was incredible.
Speaker 2: It was packed, beautiful venue. There were some employees that
Speaker 2: really fucked up, and we had a couple of our
Speaker 2: listeners fly from fucking Florida and be yond away at
Speaker 2: the door. So I just want to shout out, we
Speaker 2: are so sorry that that happened.
Speaker 3: Brittany.
Speaker 1: That's a shout out to Brittany, our girl who who
Speaker 1: came who?
Speaker 3: And we love you and we're really sorry that happened.
Speaker 1: And Jasmine, there was a snaphoo and we will make
Speaker 1: it up to you the next time we are wherever
Speaker 1: you want to be, so message us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the owner of the venue is definitely wants to
Speaker 2: talk to Kara immediately, not me, but.
Speaker 3: You know, we tried.
Speaker 2: But then the next day in Boston it was like
Speaker 2: our dude Clay was amazing. And then after New York
Speaker 2: being treated so poorly by this man. Then it's just
Speaker 2: it's like nothing is consistent with our life, Like I
Speaker 2: understand why our lives are Like the life of a
Speaker 2: performer is so wild to a lot of people because
Speaker 2: it's like, even when things are smooth, smooth, smooth, one
Speaker 2: dickhead can turn everything around.
Speaker 3: And then the next day you're with.
Speaker 2: An angel named Clay who's buying so many dips. He's
Speaker 2: just like bringing drinks, so positive, so kind, and then
Speaker 2: you go somewhere else the next day on a high
Speaker 2: sold out shows. Oh my god, the hotel is shitty
Speaker 2: as fuck. The electricity is gone. We can't check in.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an emotional rollercoaster, but yeah, you know, we
Speaker 1: ride the ride. Baby, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1: We have a great time, and we do. We also,
Speaker 1: if anybody missed it, we were on Watch What Happens Live?
Speaker 1: Truly a goal we've had since we like started the
Speaker 1: podcast when like exactly right asked us like, oh, are
Speaker 1: there any like press things you'd want to do, and
Speaker 1: we were like, we would like to be on Watch
Speaker 1: What Happens Live as the Bartenders, and our dream came true.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. We had the best time. I was
Speaker 1: nervous and also, like you know, I had a weird
Speaker 1: sense of dread about it. I think because I don't
Speaker 1: like getting dressed for things makes me stressed out. But like, honestly,
Speaker 1: every person we interacted with there was great.
Speaker 3: We had the best time.
Speaker 2: We did have the best time. We looked incredible, like
Speaker 2: our color combos. Thanks to our friend Lauren Joyce, who
Speaker 2: made you wear monochromatic.
Speaker 3: Yes I was.
Speaker 1: I was so if anybody saw it, I'm wearing a
Speaker 1: purple top with purple pants. Not even an unintentional shout
Speaker 1: out to our purple conspiracy theory about auditors for you,
Speaker 1: but maybe a subconscious intention. And then Lisa was wearing
Speaker 1: this gorgeous, like green cool dress and I was going
Speaker 1: to wear my purple top with black pants, and my
Speaker 1: friend and I had purple ones too. I'd ordered the
Speaker 1: same pants and purple, and she goes wear the all purple,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what it had not even occurred
Speaker 1: to me. I don't have an eye for fashion, and
Speaker 1: it looked great. I thought it looked amazing. And we
Speaker 1: looked like a little batman villain, you know what.
Speaker 3: I mean, and we did look like Scooby dear Joker realness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we popped like because I was gonna wear the
Speaker 2: dress I ended up wearing into the live show. Everything
Speaker 2: just like worked out perfectly. Our friends who are Bravo
Speaker 2: fanatics also got to come.
Speaker 3: Andy on the show.
Speaker 2: I mean, he gave us some sass, which I would
Speaker 2: be disappointed if I didn't get a little latitude, to
Speaker 2: be honest. But the fact that he out loud said
Speaker 2: oh my god, I love the Bartenders, and.
Speaker 1: Then he said, can you guys be my hype squad?
Speaker 1: It was like that never happened. Yes, unless it's Bruce
Speaker 1: Bassi's best friend. That does not happen.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, we met our mole on the inside at our
Speaker 2: live show in New York.
Speaker 3: That was really exciting.
Speaker 1: Our person who works at Law and Order SVU, she
Speaker 1: came to see the show in New York. It was
Speaker 1: so cool to meet her. We jumped up and down
Speaker 1: like Mariushka showed. Yeah, like when we met this girl,
Speaker 1: we were like, yeah, it.
Speaker 3: Was so fun. But back to watch what happens.
Speaker 2: I think one of the funniest parts too, is me
Speaker 2: and you try to explain to our parents what we
Speaker 2: were doing. Oh yeah, We're like, we're on the show,
Speaker 2: but we're on the side.
Speaker 3: They're like, are you making drinks? We're like, we're not,
Speaker 3: but we're the bartenders. Are you making drinks? We're not.
Speaker 1: Like it's so confusing to people that are not in
Speaker 1: the bravosphere, But if you want to watch it, guys,
Speaker 1: it's the episode where the guests are Bianca bel Air
Speaker 1: and montes Ford and they're from the WWE and they
Speaker 1: were awesome. They were so cool to talk to and
Speaker 1: that it's their episode that I think aired on like
Speaker 1: one seventeen so or January seventeenth, so go check it out.
Speaker 1: It's on Peacock and probably Bravo app and every thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was I mean see being in the clubhouse
Speaker 2: was it was really wild. All my parents said was
Speaker 2: you guys looked so excited, and we were and we
Speaker 2: hope we get to We did not answer his questions
Speaker 2: as well as I think. We know we have it
Speaker 2: on the inside, but it truly was too overwhelming.
Speaker 1: So everybody knows we didn't get them in advance. Like
Speaker 1: he was like, who's the goat of SVU. We were likeugh,
Speaker 1: lurishka and I see like, I mean, we were just
Speaker 1: like so excited and it was hard to get like
Speaker 1: Pithy answers out. But I thought we were fun, and honestly,
Speaker 1: he just I think he just felt our enthusiasm and
Speaker 1: that's why he liked us.
Speaker 2: So I know, but then I would bother. But then
Speaker 2: I would bother care because I would turn around. I'm like,
Speaker 2: we should have said the hair department.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, what about Maloney's ass.
Speaker 1: I kept being like, Hindsight's twenty twenty, let's have fun.
Speaker 1: But Lisa is like, you know, if you don't know
Speaker 1: this about her from watch listening to this podcast, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: You gotta put turn your volume up.
Speaker 1: She her love language is gift giving, so of course
Speaker 1: she comes armed with a gorgeous gift from both of
Speaker 1: us that she has fully picked out and wrapped and
Speaker 1: everything for his kids, like these beautiful all this bag
Speaker 1: of beautiful like trinkets and books and stuff for the kids.
Speaker 1: And I a skeptic as always, was like he might
Speaker 1: just give that to an assistant and never even look
Speaker 1: at it. No, the next day he messages and says,
Speaker 1: public comment, thank you so.
Speaker 3: Much for the gifts for the kids. They're amazing, So
Speaker 3: that's all Lisa.
Speaker 2: They were expensive, and they were expensive. It was weird
Speaker 2: buying a multimillionaire presence. But my thought was, he's given
Speaker 2: us over fifteen years of entertainment, and.
Speaker 1: If we can't give him a little something back, who
Speaker 1: are we.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the cornerstone, and his children are so cute
Speaker 2: and he doesn't actually need anything for himself. So it
Speaker 2: was just like a token of appreciation for how much
Speaker 2: she's really done for all of us. I mean, what
Speaker 2: would our group chats be about, what would we talk about,
Speaker 2: Like I would like to see an alternate universe where
Speaker 2: Bravo didn't exist.
Speaker 3: And then it was like would I have have a
Speaker 3: friend again?
Speaker 2: Like it really is such a glue between everyone.
Speaker 3: But then that's another thing that was amazing.
Speaker 2: But that morning or the day before I checked into
Speaker 2: the hotel, the night stand collapsed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I moved it back.
Speaker 2: A little to plug in my laptop and it just went.
Speaker 2: I like fully broke the legs gave out of this
Speaker 2: night stand. Thank god I wasn't standing underneath. Thank god
Speaker 2: my laptop wasn't on it. I mean it was just
Speaker 2: like wild a wild start. Yeah, like these wilds up
Speaker 2: and downs of being on the road. Baby, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to think of did we Oh, we ate good food.
Speaker 3: I don't know what else did we do? Well?
Speaker 2: Before that, we were in Indianapolis and we shared the
Speaker 2: hotel with a hunting and crossbow convention. It was so crazy,
Speaker 2: it was And that wasn't the craziest part. The craziest
Speaker 2: part was, I mean, and the difference Indiana. We have
Speaker 2: the most incompetent hotel employee I have ever ever come
Speaker 2: across in the history of my life. Then we're in
Speaker 2: New York City and this woman, I'm like, you better
Speaker 2: be in med school.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: We just stayed at home, impatible and she was amazing.
Speaker 1: We stopped on her floor to say goodbye before we left.
Speaker 1: It was like, we gotta go say goodbye to our girl.
Speaker 3: Like she was amazing. She just knew all the details,
Speaker 3: not a question to be asked.
Speaker 2: It was like and this password is here, we go here,
Speaker 2: we have this at this time, this means this, this is.
Speaker 3: That enjoy and it was like, excuse me.
Speaker 2: But she was also covering people's shifts, so she worked
Speaker 2: like forty hours. Like we saw her at night when
Speaker 2: we checked in in the afternoon the next day. What
Speaker 2: we came back like, she just never left because she
Speaker 2: was covering friends shifts so they could go on vacation
Speaker 2: and just friendly, competent, incredible. I to print something. She
Speaker 2: let me get on her computer, like I don't know.
Speaker 2: And then in Indiana we both got charged. The woman
Speaker 2: knew nothing. We got in at past midnight. We got
Speaker 2: in at six am.
Speaker 1: So you book a hotel for the night before because
Speaker 1: you can't have them turn you away at six am
Speaker 1: when you're fucking exhausted.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's the thing, like the check ins and
Speaker 2: not till three pm. So a room's not guaranteed. You
Speaker 2: always book for two days. And so we get there,
Speaker 2: she goes, we gave your rooms away and we're like,
Speaker 2: excuse me. She goes, well, you didn't come before midnight.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, but if we booked it today, you
Speaker 2: wouldn't give us a room, would you.
Speaker 3: And she goes, oh, yeah, okay, and then.
Speaker 2: You know, clickity clack clack, and then for there were
Speaker 2: other things. But then at the end she goes, okay
Speaker 2: and put your card in. I go for what She
Speaker 2: goes to the room. I go, our room is paid
Speaker 2: for we're performing at the comedy club. Oh you're right,
Speaker 2: we still got charged. We did, and she was so hello,
Speaker 2: and Carri just was like, that's why she's on the
Speaker 2: night shift.
Speaker 1: That is why, that's why she's here on the night shift.
Speaker 1: She this is woman is not for dates. She's she's
Speaker 1: not ready for high, high traffic hours.
Speaker 3: Wait.
Speaker 1: The best was like, we get into the elevator with
Speaker 1: a couple of these hunter crossbow people later and Lisa goes.
Speaker 3: So, did you guys all go do archery today? It
Speaker 3: was so fucking funny.
Speaker 1: They all looked like they were like what, and then
Speaker 1: they and then she was like, like the hunting and
Speaker 1: they were like oh.
Speaker 3: And then she was like, so what do you guys do?
Speaker 1: Just talk about hunting and they were like yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we'd rather be hunting, of course. And then later
Speaker 1: after our show, we went to go have a drink
Speaker 1: at the hotel bar and they were all in there.
Speaker 1: Lisa and I were two of the only women in
Speaker 1: the entire bar, and you bet your ass they approached.
Speaker 2: But they looked like my favorite Murderer guys, Like that's
Speaker 2: what they looked like, like criminals on my Favorite murder,
Speaker 2: not my favorite murderer, the murder in Wisconsin.
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 2: Oh, making a murder? Make look at making a murderer.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine Wisconsin fucking junkyards? That's what they look like.
Speaker 1: They all just looked like guys that like to hunt.
Speaker 1: And they came up to us and were like, where
Speaker 1: are you guys from? And we're like try, and we were.
Speaker 1: Lisa was just giving them like newts as they say.
Speaker 3: Well, I was already high.
Speaker 2: But because I could talk to any you know, I
Speaker 2: met Kara's forty five to seventy people this trip. Okay,
Speaker 2: I met college friends, camp friends, high school friends, childhood friends.
Speaker 2: I met everybody, and I talked to everybody. I could
Speaker 2: talk to people. You can have questions what am I
Speaker 2: gonna do?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: How do you bleed out your deer? Get the fuck
Speaker 2: away from me? Like, I don't know. If you're not
Speaker 2: a feminist, I can't, Like, I can't try. If there's
Speaker 2: not a hope inside of you that you might have
Speaker 2: some sort of respect towards women, I just can't.
Speaker 1: Well, we just had really nothing to talk to them about.
Speaker 1: Like they came up, they were like, where are you from?
Speaker 1: We said, California, don't you hate it California. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: it was just like and then they went and sat
Speaker 1: down and one guy came back and we were like, sir,
Speaker 1: it's not happening. Well, this is what bothered me too,
Speaker 1: because if they came up and was like you're at
Speaker 1: a place, what are you guys doing here? Be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know, what's what the hunting, and then we could
Speaker 1: start what they did one of my pet peeves, which
Speaker 1: is they came in and goes, why are you two
Speaker 1: girls fight in and it's like, we're not. We're talking
Speaker 1: and it's like, you guys, we're here to and it's
Speaker 1: just like implying so much, inserting yourself so much when
Speaker 1: we are talking, like I think, interrupting someone's evening to
Speaker 1: think that you are more interesting than them without like
Speaker 1: like acknowledging reality.
Speaker 3: It just bothered me.
Speaker 2: It just bothered me when they they came up and
Speaker 2: just said, you guys are fighting and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: we're enjoying each other's company.
Speaker 3: But so that bothered me.
Speaker 2: If they were just like, you can't be here for
Speaker 2: the hunting, it would be different. I just hated the
Speaker 2: intro of it all. It really it doesn't I don't like, yeah,
Speaker 2: because it there's a tinge of misogyny in it.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, for sure. But the show in Indie was great.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Every you're married, Yeah, they're probably married. I'm glading ring.
Speaker 2: But they're also at out drunk. We were pretty sober.
Speaker 2: I'm on shingles medication. I did have another flare up,
Speaker 2: and that's what my doctor said. She goes, Yeah. He
Speaker 2: was just like, yeah, from now on, when you're stressed,
Speaker 2: you're sick, you will have shingles.
Speaker 3: So from now on, yeah, you just said.
Speaker 2: Listen, like, when you're stressed, you're sick and your immunity
Speaker 2: goes down, you will have flare ups.
Speaker 3: That is it? Like that is my life? Now? What?
Speaker 2: But I message about the vaccine and me am I decrease.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, did you not tell me that. No, we
Speaker 2: spent so much time together. It's honestly, and there's no
Speaker 2: stop in sight. I don't even think we're getting a
Speaker 2: day off, like.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you God.
Speaker 2: But we also have to talk about the New York
Speaker 2: hotel in terms of not not one space to open
Speaker 2: her suitcases, but an exercise ball. They provided a giant
Speaker 2: exercise ball, but I couldn't open my suitcakes.
Speaker 1: There were literally like TRX cables so you could like
Speaker 1: do standing like presses.
Speaker 3: But those don't take na. Yeah, so that's okay to
Speaker 3: put a suitcase.
Speaker 2: And they had a shelf made especially for yoga blocks.
Speaker 2: I go, how about a place to open my suitcase.
Speaker 3: It was just it was wild. Well we didn't talk
Speaker 3: about the flight thing. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I had an earlier flight than Lisa, and I just
Speaker 1: thought that we were on the same flight. So I
Speaker 1: check in, I don't even notice, Like I'm like, I
Speaker 1: check in the day before, don't even notice. And so
Speaker 1: the whole time we're planning for a ten to twenty flight.
Speaker 1: But my flight's eight forty five. So we wake up
Speaker 1: at six thirty and my flight's like ready to receive
Speaker 1: you at eight forty five for your flight, And I'm like, Lisa,
Speaker 1: our flight got changed because I like wasn't putting it
Speaker 1: together that I just was on a different flight. And
Speaker 1: so Lisa luckily as Jimon medallion and was able to
Speaker 1: like call, and then we figured out it was my mistake,
Speaker 1: and then they just moved me to a new flight
Speaker 1: and it was like no charge, no big deal.
Speaker 3: But who but the initial like wake up was very like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah. I was like, because we had a rental
Speaker 3: car we had to return.
Speaker 1: I was like, do I have to just run to
Speaker 1: the airport and make Lisa return the car and like a, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: What's going on.
Speaker 2: That was the one time in the history of our
Speaker 2: relationships that I had to be like calm down, Yeah,
Speaker 2: calm down, because that's why I can't even be next
Speaker 2: to a tech because if anything goes wrong, I just
Speaker 2: I can't keep it together. But in this one moment,
Speaker 2: I was like, you need to relax.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She was like I'm finding out. I was like, okay.
Speaker 1: But also also the flight was so empty, like there
Speaker 1: was a guy next to me, and when I fell
Speaker 1: asleep and woke up, he was gone, Like I think
Speaker 1: everybody just moved to their own row. So luckily, the
Speaker 1: flights for Delta seem like they've been a little bit
Speaker 1: more chill, but really quick. We will be a couple
Speaker 1: of places in February. We are going to be at
Speaker 1: JFL Vancouver, and tickets are going fast, so don't forget
Speaker 1: to get tickets for that if you live anywhere near Vancouver.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be there on February twentieth as part of
Speaker 1: the JFL Festival, but you can buy individual tickets for
Speaker 1: our show. And then we're going to be in Portland
Speaker 1: at Helium Baby on to twenty one, and then on
Speaker 1: two twenty two, we're gonna be in Tacoma. So if
Speaker 1: you live in the Seattle area, I think it's right outside,
Speaker 1: come on up, come see us. We had a blast
Speaker 1: in Seattle last time we were there, and we love
Speaker 1: you guys, so come on out.
Speaker 3: Those are our three dates right now.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to have more to announce LATA,
Speaker 1: but that's our little mini Pacific Northwest situation.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: That's what's so funny. People are like, when's when's the
Speaker 2: tour over? And it's like, I guess officially this one
Speaker 2: is done, but we're coming back ever, Yeah, we are,
Speaker 2: We are ready. We love doing the live shows. We
Speaker 2: have so much fun. Yeah, I love the PowerPoint and
Speaker 2: we love meeting everyone after and it's just been like
Speaker 2: so fun.
Speaker 3: I ask.
Speaker 2: I'm a complainer, so my instinct is always to be like,
Speaker 2: this guy's an idiot, but overall, like you can never
Speaker 2: take my complaints at anything.
Speaker 3: But what is it face value? Is that right? Or
Speaker 3: am I wrong, like I am deep down always happy.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, even though you're complaining, you're very positive I am.
Speaker 1: It's like really fucked up, twisted my toxic trait. I
Speaker 1: complain even though I'm happy. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well uh and also.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a bunch of people came to shows like
Speaker 1: wearing the beanies, wearing the purple sweatshir wearing the like
Speaker 1: the zip ups. So if you guys are interested in
Speaker 1: our merch, it's really fun. It's uh, that's mess That's
Speaker 1: messed Up live dot com actually is where you can
Speaker 1: get tickets and it has a link to our merch.
Speaker 1: So just go to That's messed Up live dot com.
Speaker 1: See if we're coming near you, check out the merch.
Speaker 1: And that's all I'm done selling you guys. We should
Speaker 1: get started because this is a hot episode today, super hot. Okay,
Speaker 1: this episode is shaken, taking it back to season five,
Speaker 1: episode ten. This came out in two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: god twenty years ago almost. So we open on two
Speaker 1: nannies gabbing at a playground.
Speaker 3: One is old and one is young, and uh.
Speaker 1: Like, the young girl sends like this little girl named
Speaker 1: Lucy on her way and she's very stern. She's like, Lucy,
Speaker 1: do not take your jacket off. I'm not gonna tell
Speaker 1: you again. It's like, okay, bitch, calm down, and Lucy looks,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Two at Max, I don't know and
Speaker 1: she toddles on off, and the older nanny is going
Speaker 1: on and on about how she's so in demand right
Speaker 1: now and another family offered to double her salary, but
Speaker 1: she just couldn't leave little Jack. He's devoted to her,
Speaker 1: and it's like, ma'am, he's a child. He's like devoted
Speaker 1: to who gives some goldfish?
Speaker 3: And the young girl is like, please give me the job.
Speaker 1: I hate missus Pritchard and Lucy does not obey me,
Speaker 1: and it's like wow, a nanny who's never met a
Speaker 1: child before, this is wild. And the older lady is like, well,
Speaker 1: her mom spoils her. Have you tried timeouts? It's like
Speaker 1: timeouts barely work, but they certainly don't work for a
Speaker 1: two year old. Rosie today said to me, you should
Speaker 1: give Oscar a timeout, and I'm like, I don't even
Speaker 1: give you timeouts and you're three and a half. An
Speaker 1: Oscar has no idea if I just sat him in
Speaker 1: another room he's like the age of this baby. He'd
Speaker 1: be like, what am I doing here? It does not
Speaker 1: teach any lessons.
Speaker 3: Where did Rosie learn about timeouts? Probably like TV shows
Speaker 3: or something. We don't do them.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I tell her, do you need to go to
Speaker 1: your room and be by yourself for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and like calm down if she's like freaking out. But
Speaker 1: I'm never like, go to your room and be alone,
Speaker 1: like as a punishment.
Speaker 3: I know someone that I follow online. They have two.
Speaker 2: Friend she's and when the friend she's misbehaved, they put
Speaker 2: them on the top of like a really high chair
Speaker 2: that they can't get down from, and there they have
Speaker 2: to sit up on a high chair.
Speaker 1: We had a chair my little brothers. I don't think
Speaker 1: I had the chair, but my little brothers did, and
Speaker 1: we would send them to their chair and they just
Speaker 1: had to It was a chair in the dining room
Speaker 1: that faced a wall and they just had to sit
Speaker 1: and stare at the wall for a little while as
Speaker 1: their punishment. But anyway, the older lady is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we tried time outs, and then the younger nanny says, no,
Speaker 1: we don't do timeouts because the mom says that it
Speaker 1: will stunt Lucy's creativity probably correct, and the older nanny
Speaker 1: is like, bring her to me.
Speaker 3: I'm the god of nanny's I'll straighten her out.
Speaker 1: And this is when they realize, oh fuck, no one
Speaker 1: has been watching this child for like this entire conversation,
Speaker 1: and then nanny goes ballistic trying to find her like Lucy,
Speaker 1: and Lucy's screaming and we don't see where this kid is.
Speaker 1: Cut to Stabler on the scene with a uniform who's
Speaker 1: telling her giving him the scoop, and it's like, her
Speaker 1: name's Lucy, her nanny is Sarah, and the older lady's
Speaker 1: name is Veronica Nash, and they Veronica Nash has told
Speaker 1: him that there has been like a quote unquote freak
Speaker 1: hanging around the playground and if it was a pedophile snatching,
Speaker 1: we wanted to give SVU the early heads up. And
Speaker 1: then like Daddy Craigan is there, and it's like, what
Speaker 1: in the white missing child is going on?
Speaker 3: Like why would he, just like the captain of.
Speaker 1: The SVU be there when a kid has been missing
Speaker 1: for like twenty minutes. But I guess it's because live
Speaker 1: is on an emergency hearing. But it's so wild for
Speaker 1: the captain to show up, and then Craigan and Stabler
Speaker 1: are examining the area, plodding out where like a pedophile
Speaker 1: may have like laid in weight, and then suddenly, eagle
Speaker 1: eyed Stabler spots something in the brush and he runs
Speaker 1: over and it's like the little girl is just lying
Speaker 1: underneath tons of shrubbery a little ways away from the playground,
Speaker 1: and he just scoops her up, and she's so small,
Speaker 1: like this is a really really little kid, and she's
Speaker 1: like in little tights and Mary Jane's like, she's really small.
Speaker 1: And then we're at the credits, so dundun, what is
Speaker 1: happening here at the hospital? We are getting the low
Speaker 1: down from a doctor that we've seen before, but this
Speaker 1: is her first episode. This is doctor Anne Marilla played
Speaker 1: by Julie White, and this is her first of five episodes.
Speaker 3: But she was also in the episode.
Speaker 1: Head about the horny teacher who had a tumor, and
Speaker 1: then the episode Starved, the Dean Kine episode. I think
Speaker 1: she's the one that like tells that she's like always
Speaker 1: the one telling them that someone's brain dead and never
Speaker 1: gonna come back. And yeah, she's on the brain floor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the brain goal.
Speaker 2: Wait, I wonder if like throughout the years, the different
Speaker 2: doctors are on different floors, or if it is all
Speaker 2: just like e er triage like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I do wonder now if she's the head girl, like
Speaker 2: if the surfer guy has a specialty, or like they're
Speaker 2: always in different.
Speaker 1: Hospitals too, like the Saint Mark's, and like other times
Speaker 1: there are other ones like yeah, so, but I've not
Speaker 1: I just wonder. I wonder if they all see each
Speaker 1: other at a conference every year and they're like, what
Speaker 1: do you think about stable?
Speaker 3: Or what a hot head?
Speaker 1: You know? Like, I wonder if they talk about it. Oh,
Speaker 1: the doctors have their own Christmas party.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: She explains that Lucy has intercranial bleeding and a laceration
Speaker 1: on the back of her head, but no skull fractures,
Speaker 1: so she basically has like a cut on the back
Speaker 1: of her head, but not not enough that it like
Speaker 1: caused the intracranial bleeding. So they're on her way to
Speaker 1: surgery right now. They didn't do a rape kit because
Speaker 1: her clothing was all intact, and they did a quick
Speaker 1: loom a light and didn't find any seamen and you know,
Speaker 1: so I guess we're putting that to bed. Craigan tells
Speaker 1: Elliot that the mom is on route. She works at
Speaker 1: an ad agency downtown and that the dad died of
Speaker 1: a heart attack last year.
Speaker 3: So they go talk to the nanny. They're asking about the.
Speaker 1: Strange guy, the like quote unquote freak that was hanging
Speaker 1: out and she said she never saw him, but Veronica
Speaker 1: did and she's like, and I'm there every day with Lucy,
Speaker 1: so it's like, weird, I've never seen this, this like,
Speaker 1: you know, creep, as she describes, and Sarah is saying
Speaker 1: she doesn't remember any weird strangers at all. And that's
Speaker 1: when the mother, Evelyn Pritchard, arrives and she's you know,
Speaker 1: oh Lucy, where are you? Very dramatic. And she's played
Speaker 1: by Cynthia Edinger. I thought I recognized her from stuff.
Speaker 1: She's been in a lot. She was in Carnival, she
Speaker 1: was in a bunch of episodes of Deadwood. I did
Speaker 1: notice in her credits that on Kirby Your Enthusiasm she
Speaker 1: played the role of Fallatio Teacher, So I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's an episode people remember.
Speaker 3: Well. She was also another Svu. Yeah she is. What
Speaker 3: is that one with your guy with Titus?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, with Bosch or whatever, what's his name, Welleger
Speaker 2: Titus Welliver, she is. So this is one of my
Speaker 2: It is one of my favorite episodes. But like, Titus
Speaker 2: plays a bad dad and the daughter's found on the
Speaker 2: train tracks and she's abused and has marks that she's
Speaker 2: been tied down. And the dad, we find out, like
Speaker 2: wants tons of kids, but the mom, Evelyn, can't get
Speaker 2: pregnant and so like, I don't know, but he also
Speaker 2: lets other people fuck her to get lots of kids.
Speaker 2: And the daycare in their house is actually all of
Speaker 2: their kids, and there's a head in the wall. It
Speaker 2: is a wild episode. She's at an Amazing your career Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's her, and.
Speaker 1: She's obviously distraught. She goes right in for Sarah like
Speaker 1: how could you let this happen? And then she just
Speaker 1: starts monologuing about like I don't know what I'll do
Speaker 1: if I lose my daughter and this and that, and
Speaker 1: she starts sobbing into Stabler's chest and is like why
Speaker 1: is God punishing me? And Stabler's like, oh, another god
Speaker 1: fearing person like myself and he directs her to.
Speaker 3: The hospital chapel.
Speaker 1: They go talk to the other nanny, Veronica Nash, and
Speaker 1: I knew this woman was familiar, and she is, and
Speaker 1: here's who she is. Her name is Olga Meredith. She
Speaker 1: plays Abuela Claudia in In the Heights God and in
Speaker 1: Incanto she is the singing voice of Abuela Alma. So
Speaker 1: if you're a person that has watched in Kanto seventy
Speaker 1: five thousand times, you've heard this woman sing when she's.
Speaker 3: Like the miraculis you just you that's her.
Speaker 1: And she's been in five episodes of SVU in more
Speaker 1: recent seasons as Judge Roberta Martinez in seasons eighteen through
Speaker 1: twenty two.
Speaker 3: She's a judge.
Speaker 1: So we've seen this woman around and we've heard her voice.
Speaker 1: A legend a singer, and anyway, this one, the character though,
Speaker 1: thinks she invented nanny ing. She says, Sarah's a babysitter,
Speaker 1: she's not a certified nanny, and this happens when children
Speaker 1: are left with unqualified caregivers. And she says she noticed
Speaker 1: the creep and Sarah didn't because she's better trained. And
Speaker 1: at first she thought this dude was just a dad
Speaker 1: trying to get candid shots of the pictures of the kids,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't. And so now she takes Stabler to
Speaker 1: the rocks where she saw the guy taking the photos,
Speaker 1: and now she's gonna go downtown for a sketch, and
Speaker 1: she's like anything to help.
Speaker 3: Suddenly there's like.
Speaker 1: A reporter from the trib and Elliott's face and he's
Speaker 1: looking for a scoop and I'm like, have you ever
Speaker 1: gotten a scoop from Elliott? Stabler sir like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why you think this is going to happen, and
Speaker 1: the convos seamlessly blends into Stabler running into CSU Captain
Speaker 1: Jude at Ciper. She's like, sorry, I tried to get
Speaker 1: the guy to Scraham, but no dice. She says, the
Speaker 1: area where the girl was found was totally clean. Oh,
Speaker 1: she's got nothing to go on. And then at the
Speaker 1: top of the rocks, what do you know, the guy
Speaker 1: left an empty film box behind him, like it's nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five and no one has been on those rocks
Speaker 1: in you know a couple of well, I guess he
Speaker 1: was there the day of the problem, which is that day.
Speaker 3: So back at the precinct.
Speaker 1: Twang is like film is a weird choice, Like pedophiles
Speaker 1: love photos, but they have gone digital, like they don't
Speaker 1: want to get busted taking their film to get developed.
Speaker 1: So unless you have a dark room, it's not really
Speaker 1: a great, you know, a great move. So he just
Speaker 1: says it's a risky move for a pedophile. And Craigan
Speaker 1: enters with the Goods about the fingerprints from the film box,
Speaker 1: and they belong to Dennis Papillion and he.
Speaker 3: Has a record for burglary.
Speaker 1: He works at a drug store on Broadway, and he
Speaker 1: fits Veronica's description, which seems like the description of most men.
Speaker 3: They go to the drug store.
Speaker 1: This guy's operating the photo kiosk, So this is a
Speaker 1: full red herring. He's been at works at seven am.
Speaker 1: The reason his film prints are on the film is
Speaker 1: because he sells the film. And he remembers developing the
Speaker 1: film for a guy who brought in a bunch of
Speaker 1: pictures of kids playing really shit and he just hands
Speaker 1: them this guy's pictures and his address and name, and
Speaker 1: his name is Ronnie Iickels, and he's on twenty ninth Street.
Speaker 1: Now we cut to this random dude who's in custod
Speaker 1: He's sitting with Craig and he goes, hold on, I'm
Speaker 1: no damn baby Raper and it's like, I love two
Speaker 1: thousand and three. And so again there's no sexual assaults
Speaker 1: evidence on this little girl. So I don't even know
Speaker 1: why we're going there. But they're like, why were you
Speaker 1: taking pictures of random children? And you psycho and he's like,
Speaker 1: I was working. I'm a PI but he's not certified
Speaker 1: yet and he didn't want to get involved, so when
Speaker 1: the cops showed up, he was like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to get busted, basically, and his client
Speaker 1: is a rich guy named David Jeffries, and shocker, he's
Speaker 1: not a pervert who wants pictures of little kids. He
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure that his nanny was treating
Speaker 1: his kid right. This is a big nanny ng episode.
Speaker 1: And the worst thing he got was the nanny smoking,
Speaker 1: which is wild. I was a babysitter and a nanny
Speaker 1: for a long time when I smoked, and I never
Speaker 1: smoked with the kids.
Speaker 3: But back to the drawing board, Liv walks in.
Speaker 1: She's in this episode, like very briefly, she's this is
Speaker 1: a very stabler heavy episode, we don't get a lot
Speaker 1: of live she walks in. They're talking about how Lucy's
Speaker 1: still in surgery. Elliot lays out all the photographs that
Speaker 1: they got from this guy and their time stamped, and
Speaker 1: so they really kind of set up a whole timeline
Speaker 1: of everything that happened. And there was really only like
Speaker 1: one minute between when he had Lucy on film, and
Speaker 1: so when the nanny starts spinning around looking for her
Speaker 1: and causing a scene, so something is up, Like no
Speaker 1: one was even near her. Maybe there was no crime.
Speaker 1: Maybe she tripped and conked her head. And Stabler's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: kids fall all the time, they don't usually need surgery.
Speaker 1: And then ring a ding ding, the phone call comes
Speaker 1: that calls Stabler back to the hospital because Lucy's doctor
Speaker 1: wants to talk to him. At the hospital, the doctor
Speaker 1: tells him that Lucy is stable but still unconscious. She
Speaker 1: has bilateral subdural hematomas with retinal shearing, which Stabler immediately
Speaker 1: knows is shaken baby syndrome.
Speaker 3: Hart's, I know that's shaken.
Speaker 2: It's obviously something very serious, but I can't something about
Speaker 2: shake and bake. Do you remember those commercials? It's shaking
Speaker 2: bake and I helped, So you really do?
Speaker 3: Ok I did.
Speaker 2: I never did it, but it does sound fun like
Speaker 2: it seems I never did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably would have loved it anyway. Shaking bake
Speaker 1: Shaking baby syndrome so hard to say. The doctor says,
Speaker 1: it's hard to say. What so disrespectful.
Speaker 2: I know we love babies, but it's it is just like,
Speaker 2: so the baby was shaken baked. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: there is a more modern term, and we'll get it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, probably gonna get ye. We're staying in this
Speaker 2: fantasy of the early two thousands.
Speaker 3: Exciting.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the doctor says, it's hard to say what
Speaker 1: her chances are, but if she does recover, she'll probably
Speaker 1: have permanent brain damage. Someone shook this kid so hard
Speaker 1: it damn near killed her. And Stabler is concerned because
Speaker 1: you know, he gets his concern face on because you
Speaker 1: could just see like the flashes of all his own
Speaker 1: children in his eyes. And now Melinda's in the house
Speaker 1: giving everyone the rundown on shaking baby syndrome, and she's
Speaker 1: like talking about how bilateral subderbal heemotomas are the most
Speaker 1: common injury with shaking baby syndrome. And they're basically bruises
Speaker 1: on your brain. Like my mom famously fell famously. I
Speaker 1: feel like I've talked about it before, but maybe I haven't.
Speaker 1: She fell in a restaurant in San Francisco in like November,
Speaker 1: and not until like late December did we find out
Speaker 1: she got a subdural hematoma from it.
Speaker 3: She was just bleeding in her brain. She had to
Speaker 3: have a full.
Speaker 1: Operation, like where her like head was cut open to
Speaker 1: like relieve the pressure of the bleeding. Because when she fell,
Speaker 1: her head snapped back so quickly, and when you get
Speaker 1: older with age, it's more likely to happen.
Speaker 2: But she was so scary a doctor, So what how
Speaker 2: did she know she was having symptoms? Because I feel
Speaker 2: like it's dangerous. Some people die because they don't know.
Speaker 1: After about five weeks, she started having horrible headaches, like
Speaker 1: the headaches came in but it didn't happen right away,
Speaker 1: And then she went to the doctor immediately. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then she went to the doc. Well, finally we like
Speaker 1: made her. Doctors are notorious for the shit. She like
Speaker 1: will not go to the doctor when she has a problem.
Speaker 1: We forced her, and I think my brother did, and
Speaker 1: they brought her and finally we found out what the
Speaker 1: fuck happened, and she had to have a whole operation.
Speaker 3: Was so scary.
Speaker 1: So definitely, if you have a bad fall, check it out,
Speaker 1: get checked out.
Speaker 3: But can they see right away, you said?
Speaker 2: Five weeks later she realized, like if she went to
Speaker 2: the doctor the next day, how would they know.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you're right, you're right, maybe it would
Speaker 1: take it. It would have taken longer. But I think my
Speaker 1: mom did ignore the headaches for longer than she should have.
Speaker 1: If you have like persistent headaches, you gotta go get
Speaker 1: checked out it.
Speaker 3: Because you never know.
Speaker 2: Scary because you know they don't know what happened to
Speaker 2: Bob Saggett yet really, but he did have like a
Speaker 2: brain injury, like someone like there was something And I
Speaker 2: wonder if that could happen where you get hit but
Speaker 2: then for a long time comes in. It's really I
Speaker 2: didn't realize that this this is scary. I didn't realize, yeah, this.
Speaker 3: That can happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't think a subjurb molhemotome like on
Speaker 1: its own is like yeah, but you just have to.
Speaker 1: And I think this girl was shaking a lot harder
Speaker 1: than my mom's fall.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But just the way that my mom's brain like I
Speaker 1: think smacked the back of her skull. It did a
Speaker 1: little bruise. But anyway, Melinda's explaining all this, she has
Speaker 1: a fucking doll that she shakes. Casey Novak's there taking
Speaker 1: this all into Then she shakes an egg and a
Speaker 1: jar to observe, to basically demonstrate what happens. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you have so many props, Melinda Warner, the Gallagher of Emmy's.
Speaker 1: And Novak is like, so you can testify that shake
Speaker 1: and baby syndrome is the only cause, the only thing
Speaker 1: that could have killed, like hurt this child. It didn't kill,
Speaker 1: it could have hurt this child, And she goes, yep,
Speaker 1: the medical report confirms it. Plus she has compression fractures
Speaker 1: on her ribs, which means somebody grabbed her like really
Speaker 1: hard to shake her on her ribs. And Casey's wondering
Speaker 1: how this could have happened out in the open and
Speaker 1: such a short amount of time, like at the playground,
Speaker 1: and Melinda's like, I think, based on the blood pooling
Speaker 1: in the skull cavity, the attack actually happened twelve to
Speaker 1: forty eight hours earlier, so she would have been sleepy, vomiting,
Speaker 1: but ambulatory for a couple of days. So I guess,
Speaker 1: like that's another thing too, if you have, like if
Speaker 1: you're really letharge and feeling out of it and you're
Speaker 1: vomiting for no reason, but you've also had a recent
Speaker 1: head thing, get checked out, you know. So anyone who
Speaker 1: has had contact with her in the last three days
Speaker 1: is a suspect. At the hospital, Stabler's explaining it all
Speaker 1: to Evelyn, who doesn't get how yesterday her daughter was
Speaker 1: walking and talking and fine and now this and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's a slow process. I'm sure the doctor's explained it.
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, the only adults Lucy spends time
Speaker 1: with are me and Sarah. And they're like, do you
Speaker 1: have a boyfriend? And then this is what I love,
Speaker 1: because we've been talking about how the captions have great
Speaker 1: descriptions of sounds.
Speaker 2: The caption over her says mirthless chuckle. I was like,
Speaker 2: get me a T shirt that says mirthless chuckle.
Speaker 3: So funny.
Speaker 1: She goes, I haven't dated since my husband died, and
Speaker 1: she's like, I worked late and when I got home,
Speaker 1: Lucy was asleep and I hate working late, but I
Speaker 1: got to get the overtime, babe. And so Lucy was
Speaker 1: alone with Sarah basically for like all of these two
Speaker 1: days because of how much the mom.
Speaker 3: Had to work.
Speaker 1: So they're like, well, what's your feeling on Sarah, And
Speaker 1: the mom's like, she's okay. I mean I want someone
Speaker 1: with more experience, but I can't afford it. And then
Speaker 1: she's like, I caught her yelling at Sarah once, but
Speaker 1: if she had hit her, I would have fired her.
Speaker 1: Sometimes she sees bruises and marks on Sarah on Lucy,
Speaker 1: but Sarah always says she fell down or got hit
Speaker 1: at the playground, and I was like, yeah, probably by
Speaker 1: my brute of a son, Oscar. He just walks up
Speaker 1: to any child and smacks them. He's horrible these days.
Speaker 2: He's been such a gentle little boy.
Speaker 3: I can't believe he's out there hitting.
Speaker 1: But he has Rosie because Rosie's taken things from him.
Speaker 1: Rosie's in his grill, and now he's like, now I
Speaker 1: fight back. He's like, I'm older, I can walk. He's
Speaker 1: Jeffer Lopez exactly, yes, exactly. He's been taking taekwondo on
Speaker 1: the side and he's like, now I fucking rise up.
Speaker 3: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: He just goes up to random kids and pushes them,
Speaker 1: and I'm always like, but he smiles when he does it.
Speaker 1: I think he thinks he's being nice and playful. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Now Stabler is talking to Sarah the nanny again, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, my hours are eight to six, which
Speaker 1: a brutal, fucking.
Speaker 3: Long day with a child.
Speaker 1: I'll say that my hours are eight to six, but
Speaker 1: Evelyn never gets home till after nine, and she and
Speaker 1: he's like, wow, those are long hours. Like Stabler's really
Speaker 1: trying to like befriend her and he's and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Lucy was a colicky baby and now she's a screamer.
Speaker 1: She has huge tantrums when her mom goes out. And
Speaker 1: he's like, Oh, you couldn't pay me to do what
Speaker 1: you do. I hear a kid scream, It makes me insane.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, good thing, you're never around to
Speaker 1: help raise your kids.
Speaker 3: Tabler like, I'm.
Speaker 2: Shocked there's not more FaceTime with him and his kids. Oh,
Speaker 2: I guess there's no babies here. Maybe if like baby
Speaker 2: Elliott was ready around. Yeah, but they usually try to
Speaker 2: make you know he's holding a baby then thinking tie it.
Speaker 3: In, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can tell he's trying to get her
Speaker 1: to trust him by being like, yeah, these fucking kids,
Speaker 1: am I right? Like, girl, I feel you, you know.
Speaker 1: And she admits that she spanked Lucy like a little
Speaker 1: while ago when she threw a toy at her even
Speaker 1: though Evelyn told her not to.
Speaker 3: And that's wild too. I mean, I guess twenty years
Speaker 3: a go maybe was a different time.
Speaker 1: But I've never hit a kiss, smacked a kid that
Speaker 1: I babysat for ever, or my own kids.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. It just feels like worse to
Speaker 3: smack a kid that's not yours, Like.
Speaker 1: You could get in like I would never smack my
Speaker 1: own kids, but you know, I wouldn't smack. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even tap a kid on the butt with like a
Speaker 1: little spank for a kid on babysitting for But I
Speaker 1: used to expect my brothers, I guess, but not not
Speaker 1: for discipline, just to terrorize them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never had the urge to hit a kid.
Speaker 2: Usually when kids are really bad, I would just be
Speaker 2: like I would just give up and be like, fine,
Speaker 2: you want to throw it through.
Speaker 1: It not my life. I'm not coming back. What about
Speaker 1: if there's a kid crying in first class? Ever had
Speaker 1: the urge?
Speaker 2: Then no, because I feel bad for the parents. I
Speaker 2: really do. I even if I'm annoyed or whatnot. I'm
Speaker 2: never like pissed at a kid and I feel bad.
Speaker 2: Yeahs normal, That's not true though, if you're not doing anything.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what I always say.
Speaker 1: If the parents are scrolling their phone while their kid
Speaker 1: is screaming on an airplane, then I'm mad, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of all my years of childcare and camps and
Speaker 2: all of it. Like, I've also never been in a
Speaker 2: physical fight with an adult. Like I just don't think
Speaker 2: that's my urge in any way. Yeah, yeah, totally. I
Speaker 2: mean I used to smack around my little brother. We
Speaker 2: would smack each other.
Speaker 1: But like I've not I always say I've never physically
Speaker 1: hurt anybody I'm not related to, Like it's only my siblings,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I've pulled my I've pulled the shit
Speaker 1: out of my sister's hair when I was a kid.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 1: Anyway, she finally gets that Elliott thinks she's the one
Speaker 1: that hurt Lucy, and she's like, wait, you don't think
Speaker 1: I did I didn't do anything. And then they're like, well,
Speaker 1: then why don't you take it. He's like take a
Speaker 1: polygraph and she's like, I'm scared, and then we think
Speaker 1: she's about to confess, but twist, she confesses to stealing
Speaker 1: from the mom's purse. She's like, I take money from
Speaker 1: the mom's purse, five or ten bucks at a time.
Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of snot acting happening. She's got
Speaker 1: a drip of snot coming down and I know.
Speaker 3: But it's like, babe, this is s view.
Speaker 2: They don't care about that, the nice confession, but because
Speaker 2: I believe that she wouldn't do that, like wow, you know, she.
Speaker 1: Does get upset at the idea that she's gonna get
Speaker 1: busted for stealing maybe a total of one hundred dollars,
Speaker 1: and so you know, Stabler buys it. He's like, I
Speaker 1: don't think she did it. And Novak's like based on
Speaker 1: what and he's like, my gut. She's like two bad,
Speaker 1: your gut's not admissible in court, babe, And Huang's like, well,
Speaker 1: she does fit the profile. Overworked, like long hours with child,
Speaker 1: with a child, you know, who misbehaves and Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: she's tweaking over a couple bucks, and Novak's like yeah,
Speaker 1: or she's a complete sociopath.
Speaker 3: That's like making you think that she didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: Craigan shows up to drop a bomb that the trib
Speaker 1: just posted a story, a published a story because it's
Speaker 1: actually not the Internet about this, and that a witness
Speaker 1: saw Sarah abusing Lucy and the piece was written by
Speaker 1: Ian Felson and done done.
Speaker 3: It's the guy we met earlier at the park.
Speaker 1: So Stabler shows up to talk to this reporter who's
Speaker 1: out waiting for a purp walk, like a full TMZ reporter.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, give me your witness and I'll give
Speaker 1: you exclusive on the arrest. And the guy's like, no problem,
Speaker 1: calls his w andess on his flippity flip phone and he's.
Speaker 2: Like, most journalists are so endo up keeping their sources private.
Speaker 2: It's like interesting this guy's but I think it's because
Speaker 2: this is a shitty paper.
Speaker 1: I think this is supposed to be like the poster
Speaker 1: like a rag. And the guy's like, oh, I guess
Speaker 1: I'll ask her if she's okay with it. If you're
Speaker 1: going to give me exclusive on the arrest, like if
Speaker 1: it does something for me, you know. So he calls
Speaker 1: his source and he and then he gets off the
Speaker 1: phone with her and he's like, yeah, she says, she's
Speaker 1: down to talk to you.
Speaker 3: It's Veronica Nash Done Done.
Speaker 1: That's the other nanny, and we've already talked to that bitch,
Speaker 1: So what the hell she knew more? And she didn't say. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Stabler is not going to take that well. So now
Speaker 1: he's over at her place and he's like, you never
Speaker 1: told me any of this, and she's like, well you
Speaker 1: never asked. I thought we were focusing on the pedophile
Speaker 1: picture taker. And he wants to know what she told
Speaker 1: the reporter exactly, and she starts talking major shit about
Speaker 1: this poor little shaken baby. She's like, Lucy is difficult, wilful, defiant,
Speaker 1: and it's like, who isn't bitch Like she's one and
Speaker 1: a half years old right basically or two?
Speaker 3: Like they're all wilful and defiant.
Speaker 1: Sarah can't control her and and gets frustrated and hits Lucy,
Speaker 1: this is what Veronica is alleging, and she says she's
Speaker 1: seen it more than once, and then she said a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago they took their kids to the museum
Speaker 1: and Lucy was going off and a staff member yelled
Speaker 1: at Sarah to get control of her, and then Sarah
Speaker 1: smacked Lucy across the face hard. So now like a
Speaker 1: good cop that doesn't probably exist in real life. Stablers
Speaker 1: at the New York Children's Museum talking to the woman
Speaker 1: who was like running the kids area, and she's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember Lucy really spirited it really spirited child.
Speaker 3: She wanted to touch everything. We love that.
Speaker 1: So she's acting like she appreciates Lucy's kind of like
Speaker 1: wild behavior, and she's like, it's an interactive play site.
Speaker 3: We're down, you know.
Speaker 1: And then she said we didn't really care that she
Speaker 1: was being loud and touching all this stuff. It was
Speaker 1: the nanny who got pissed and she hit the little
Speaker 1: girl really hard. And then she's like, I went to
Speaker 1: it had a security guard, but when I got back,
Speaker 1: they were gone. So then he shows the woman, the
Speaker 1: teacher lady from the museum. I don't know what to
Speaker 1: call this, this museum like docent. I don't know who
Speaker 1: she is, but she works at the museum with the children,
Speaker 1: and she's like He's like, look at the picture. Is
Speaker 1: this the woman pointing to Sarah And she's like, well, well,
Speaker 1: well the woman who hit the kid is Veronica, not Sarah.
Speaker 1: She IDs Veronica as the child slapper. Done done. So
Speaker 1: Stabler comes in hot and gets right in Veronica's face.
Speaker 3: She's an interrogation.
Speaker 1: She's like, well, Lucy deserves a spanking, she needs discipline,
Speaker 1: and he's like, you're sick, lady. You need attention so
Speaker 1: badly you run out and lie to a reporter, which
Speaker 1: is wild, Like why would you go to a reporter
Speaker 1: just to have your name in the paper? I guess
Speaker 1: is what Saber accuses her of. But it's like, you're
Speaker 1: the one that's been smacking kid. It's like, Erica Jane,
Speaker 1: why are you going on a reality Why is her
Speaker 1: husband leting on a reality show when he's got a
Speaker 1: huge ring? Jenshaw, why are you going on a reality
Speaker 1: show when you have a full crime syndicate happening underneath you? Anyway,
Speaker 1: It's just so stupid what people do, but they need attention.
Speaker 1: So she was like, listen, it wasn't me that shook
Speaker 1: the kid, because I was at my employer's country home
Speaker 1: all weekend, and that just reminds me about how my
Speaker 1: sister was a public She still is a public school
Speaker 1: teacher in New York City, but she used to teach
Speaker 1: it a different school with fifth graders, and they would
Speaker 1: always be like, where's your country house, Miss Caitlin, And
Speaker 1: she'd be like, not everybody has a country house, like
Speaker 1: they just thought everybody has one. So her alibi does
Speaker 1: check out. So she did smack the baby, but she
Speaker 1: didn't shake her. And Craigan's like, we could still go
Speaker 1: after Veronica for assaulting Lucy. The papers will crucify her,
Speaker 1: she'll lose her job, and stablers like do it. And
Speaker 1: then Craigan, you know, always getting to the psychological is like,
Speaker 1: what are you really mad at?
Speaker 3: Elliott? Is it her or yourself? And He's like, I'm
Speaker 3: just pissed.
Speaker 1: I spent a whole day chasing around this woman's lies
Speaker 1: when there's like a little kid in the hospital dying
Speaker 1: and I can't, like I'm not getting anywhere on her case.
Speaker 1: In walks Munch with the results of Sarah's polygraph test
Speaker 1: and she passed with flying colors, which doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Polygraphs aren't real.
Speaker 1: They don't met like they're easy to beat, apparently, and
Speaker 1: they don't called up in courts. I don't really know
Speaker 1: why that exonerates her, but I know she didn't do it.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying when they rely on a polygraphic
Speaker 1: confuses me. Munch says, the only thing the trip is
Speaker 1: good for is lining my bird cage. And do we
Speaker 1: think Munch has a bird?
Speaker 4: What do you think?
Speaker 3: It's just a figure of speech. He would he would
Speaker 3: have a fucking bird. He would think you're reptile.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and his bird would be named like Socrates, yeah,
Speaker 1: or what's what's like a grassy knoll reference or something
Speaker 1: like something about jfk assassination. So anyway, Sablor head's bow.
Speaker 1: I really think he has a bird that talks. I
Speaker 1: really do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe his bird is named my ex wife, So
Speaker 1: whenever he talks about my ex wife, it's the bird
Speaker 1: he's talking about. Anyway, Sablor heads back to the hospital
Speaker 1: and Evelyn's like by her daughter's side, and it's so sad.
Speaker 1: We're not really getting a full look of this baby,
Speaker 1: but we're seeing a very tiny body in like a
Speaker 1: crib with around the head bandage and like tubes. It's sad,
Speaker 1: and Evelyn's like any updates detectives and she's like well,
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, Sarah's in the clear.
Speaker 3: So she's like, well, then who hurt Lucy? And he's like,
Speaker 3: why don't you tell me, bitch?
Speaker 1: And he's like, you and Sarah are the only ones
Speaker 1: that were with her, so what's up now? We got
Speaker 1: to look at you or what's happening? And suddenly she
Speaker 1: has more info. Suddenly she's like, okay, I should have
Speaker 1: told you before, but there was someone else. I just
Speaker 1: didn't think he could have done this. And it's a
Speaker 1: man I've been seeing. His name is Drew Farmer. He's married,
Speaker 1: and I did leave him alone with Lucy.
Speaker 3: Done.
Speaker 1: Done, end of act two, top of back three. We
Speaker 1: got Drew Farmer. He is her boss and she's been
Speaker 1: having an affair with him for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: And that explains all the overtime. Oh and I didn't
Speaker 1: catch that. Yeah, yeah, so all the time she's been
Speaker 1: at the office.
Speaker 3: He also looks familiar. Who is this guy?
Speaker 1: I don't know one of the ones I didn't look up. Well,
Speaker 1: they bring this guy in and he's Deny, Deny. He's like,
Speaker 1: Evelyn's just an employee, and it's like, sir, they've already
Speaker 1: brought you in. They fucking know everything. She's the only
Speaker 1: one working overtime that's on your support staff. And guess what,
Speaker 1: she only works overtime when your wife is.
Speaker 3: Out of town. Done done.
Speaker 1: He says he never touched the girl, so it's a
Speaker 1: full admission about the affair. And he's like, if my
Speaker 1: wife finds out, she'll cut my ball off, and Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: criminal court will do worse, and he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened to Lucy. Sabler is like painting the
Speaker 1: scene and he's like, you're having a nice romantic evening.
Speaker 1: Then your girlfriend has to go out to the store,
Speaker 1: and then the kid wakes up. She won't shut the
Speaker 1: fuck up. It's you're not gonna get your rocks off.
Speaker 1: Sabler's hammering him and he's like, you shook her to
Speaker 1: shut her up, and he's like, no, I just picked
Speaker 1: her up. And then she puked all over me, and
Speaker 1: he's like, Evelyn never mentioned the throw and she's like
Speaker 1: and the guy goes, I never told Evel and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to spoil the mood. And then he realizes, fuck,
Speaker 1: something was wrong with the kid and I never told
Speaker 1: the mom, and I could have maybe saved her life,
Speaker 1: Like I never said to the mom, hey, your daughter
Speaker 1: just barfed everywhere, like for no reason. He just cleaned
Speaker 1: it up and like put her back to bed. So
Speaker 1: it's not enough to hold the guy on unfortunately, just
Speaker 1: being an asshole who doesn't tell a mom and when
Speaker 1: her kid barfs, and so Stabler's really pissed off. He's
Speaker 1: like this poor girl's in the hospital, can't speak, and
Speaker 1: all the adults in her life are lying, and Craigan's like, you're.
Speaker 2: All assholes, but like I don't know if I if
Speaker 2: everyone knows puke is dangerous, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I definitely think you tell a mom when their
Speaker 1: kid threw up. Well, I wouldn't clean it up, Yes,
Speaker 1: I would go your kid puked, your kid puked, here
Speaker 1: you go, yeah, exactly, But you wouldn't be like, uh,
Speaker 1: it happened, everything's fine. Didn't hear a word from her,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know that, like you know, And so
Speaker 1: Craigan's like, all right, well, let's go back to the
Speaker 1: medical evidence of it all. And at Melinda's office and
Speaker 1: she's running through the timeline of Lucy's three days before
Speaker 1: the hospitalization, like Sunday night is the date night where
Speaker 1: she bars Monday, the babysitter describes her as lethargic Tuesdays
Speaker 1: when she collapses in the park, So her vomit Sunday
Speaker 1: night is a classic sign of head trauma. And so
Speaker 1: the symptoms and the timeframe point to Evelyn Lucy's mom
Speaker 1: And because you know, Sarah doesn't work on the weekend,
Speaker 1: so they have to connect to Evelyn if they can
Speaker 1: match her hand size to the size of the rib fracture,
Speaker 1: like the bruising of the rib fracture, which seems again
Speaker 1: like a reach. A lot of people have similar sized hands.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I guess to narrow it down.
Speaker 1: Of the people that have been with her outside the hospital,
Speaker 1: they Evelyn's like sitting on a bench enjoying some fresh air,
Speaker 1: and they Stabler and Melinda Grabber and are like, hey, mind,
Speaker 1: if you just hold out your hand like this and
Speaker 1: like an.
Speaker 3: L shaped like a too legit to quit.
Speaker 1: Elle And then she runs this machine and she goes,
Speaker 1: it's a match. So she's measuring the size of her hand.
Speaker 1: Not sure how that's a legal way to identify someone,
Speaker 1: but here we are and she says.
Speaker 3: I'm a good mother.
Speaker 1: I didn't hurt Lucy, and they mirandize her as they
Speaker 1: take her ass away.
Speaker 3: Now top of act four.
Speaker 1: In interrogation, Stabler tells Kasey he didn't get a confession
Speaker 1: because Evelyn lawyered up and a jury feel will not
Speaker 1: feel bad for a woman who scrambled her kid's brain,
Speaker 1: is what Novak says. And then Elliot, it's like every
Speaker 1: parent has been there, and they're chatting about Stabler's parenting woes,
Speaker 1: which I'm like, when are you ever doing it? And
Speaker 1: in walks the amazing fucking legend Beverly di'angelo, who we
Speaker 1: all know and love, and she's playing defense attorney Rebecca Balthus.
Speaker 1: This is her third episode out of five as this character,
Speaker 1: so she's played Rebecca about this five times, and then
Speaker 1: if you watch more recent seasons, she's come back as
Speaker 1: Caresie's mother, Sarah Fina Caresi, the most Italian name of
Speaker 1: all time. So Rebecca Balthus obviously thinks they're railroading her client,
Speaker 1: and Casey has such a great line she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: what like, like, what's the defense? Temporary insanity brought on
Speaker 1: by the stress of raising a child with permanent live
Speaker 1: in help.
Speaker 3: I was like, Lol, that was getting me.
Speaker 1: And then Balthus is like, no, no excuses, She's innocent
Speaker 1: and I'll prove it. She's really good. I like her
Speaker 1: a lot in this. So we cut, even though I
Speaker 1: do think she's defending a baby killer. So we cut
Speaker 1: to court. Melinda is testifying that in her opinion, Evelyn
Speaker 1: is responsible, and then she rests her case to Casey
Speaker 1: rest her case, and here comes Beverly and she's like,
Speaker 1: are you familiar with hemophagasitic lympho hestiocytosis aka HLA? And
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, she said it off the top
Speaker 1: of her head, like she was a medical doctor, and well,
Speaker 1: you just you know, yeah, but I wrote it out.
Speaker 3: I'm reading it like she said it, like she memorized
Speaker 3: that shit.
Speaker 1: And she's basically making the argument that this rare disorder
Speaker 1: called HLH can also causes brain bleeding and eye bleeding.
Speaker 1: And Melinda's like, sure, maybe, but it wouldn't have caused
Speaker 1: the rib fractures. And she's like, well, they gave her
Speaker 1: CPR in Central Park that could have caused the rib fractures,
Speaker 1: and what about the posterior fractures that would have been
Speaker 1: they could have been caused by Elliott Stabler who grabbed
Speaker 1: her and ran out of the park with her. And
Speaker 1: it's like, did they give her CPR?
Speaker 3: I thought she was.
Speaker 1: Breathing anyway, where's all the hand measuring evidence?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 1: Why are we not talking about how the hand evidence
Speaker 1: matches the mom We've just thrown out the hand evidence.
Speaker 1: It's like how we got her and now we're just
Speaker 1: not talking about it anyway. The only way to determine
Speaker 1: HLH versus shake and baby syndrome is an autopsy. It's
Speaker 1: like CTE, where you can only find out after someone
Speaker 1: dies if they had it.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that about ct Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't confirm ct until you chop open the
Speaker 1: brain and look inside. So while it's very obvious sometimes
Speaker 1: that someone has it, you can't really confirm it. So
Speaker 1: she's like, so it could have been HLH, and Melinda
Speaker 1: has to admit, yes, there is a small possibility it
Speaker 1: could have been that, but it doesn't look good for
Speaker 1: the prosecution. So now Evelyn is up on the stand
Speaker 1: testifying about how she always dreamed of having a baby
Speaker 1: and it was the best day of her life. When
Speaker 1: her baby was born, and that she dreamed of being
Speaker 1: a stay at home mom, and that her dumb husband
Speaker 1: died and now she has to work, and she never
Speaker 1: any have a good life insurance policy.
Speaker 3: They seem like smart New Yorkers, Like what the fuck
Speaker 3: I know? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe young I'll be honest, knock on wood. I
Speaker 1: don't have a life insurance policy. I gotta get one.
Speaker 1: But it's expensive. How expensive?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I should just get one. It's stupid. I need to
Speaker 1: just add it on to my plan. Yeah, Codo Insurance,
Speaker 1: go visit Vicky. Yeah, I want to interact with Vicky
Speaker 1: on a professional level.
Speaker 2: No, it seems like she is really good at her
Speaker 2: job because Brian moylan went to like Mexico for some
Speaker 2: conference to meet her and like do Codo insurance stuff,
Speaker 2: and I think she's like pleasant day to day wildly like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but she is good at her job.
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, but don't go to Codo Insurance. I
Speaker 2: take it back free ads for her, but I probably
Speaker 2: just gonna bundle it with my home in auto. But yes,
Speaker 2: I'm also not shaming anyone who doesn't have life insurance.
Speaker 2: I know nothing about it, but seeing.
Speaker 1: You are correct at their vibe of having a nanny
Speaker 1: and working at an ad agency seems like her husband
Speaker 1: would if you have the like, I don't know, you're right,
Speaker 1: they seem like the vibe of people that would have
Speaker 1: like the husband.
Speaker 3: Would have had like health insurance or something.
Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, well yeah, but like my parents
Speaker 2: are like immigrants or like they don't know what's up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you're you speak American, get life insurance.
Speaker 1: So she testifies that she never Lucy, she doesn't believe
Speaker 1: in it. She never shook her because she knows what
Speaker 1: that does to a child and that she would never
Speaker 1: hurt her. And Novak then comes in with a full
Speaker 1: shaming of a working mom. She's just like, and how
Speaker 1: much time do you spend with her while you're busy
Speaker 1: at work? Like, I don't really like this look for Novak,
Speaker 1: but I do get that we have to get this
Speaker 1: woman somehow.
Speaker 3: She basically is like, you shook Lucy because.
Speaker 1: She was ruining your romantic date. And she cries and
Speaker 1: she's like, no, that's not what happened. And then we
Speaker 1: cut to Novak and Stabler walking and talking. She's like,
Speaker 1: I think this is open and shot. He's gonna charge
Speaker 1: the jury soon, blah blah blah, and Stabler's like, you
Speaker 1: never know what these juries like. They might get sympathetic
Speaker 1: to this mom who's like daughter is in a coma,
Speaker 1: and then they get a call big news, bad news,
Speaker 1: Lucy just had a stroke and they don't think she's
Speaker 1: gonna make it. So now he gets to the hospital,
Speaker 1: Julie White is giving us the download again. She had
Speaker 1: a massive brain hemorrhage that destroyed her cerebral cortex. She
Speaker 1: would be dead if she wasn't on life support. This
Speaker 1: is kind of like when the Terry Shivot thing happened,
Speaker 1: and like her parents kept thinking there was going to
Speaker 1: be a miracle thing. But then when she died, they
Speaker 1: caught her brain open and they were like, she was
Speaker 1: never going to recover. Like they did figure it out,
Speaker 1: Like they were correct, you know, but I guess it
Speaker 1: is weird when some people do come out. They said,
Speaker 1: she's in a persistive vegetative state. Minimal brain function keeps
Speaker 1: her heart beating and blood circulating, but she can't see
Speaker 1: or hear, and the bad news is she's in constant pain.
Speaker 1: The EEG shows no active thoughts but her primitive brain
Speaker 1: functions are still intact. So and the doctor says there's
Speaker 1: just no way she's ever going to get better. She'll
Speaker 1: deteriorate until an infection kills her or life support is
Speaker 1: turned off. And Stabler's like, the jury needs to know
Speaker 1: about this in case. He's like, I mean, bro, it's
Speaker 1: too late. I've given my summation. I don't have any
Speaker 1: legal grounds to delay this case. And he's like, this
Speaker 1: baby's suffering is not irrelevant, and like, you know, a
Speaker 1: stern word from Stabler, and all of a sudden, Casey
Speaker 1: Novak sees a way in. So she's like, let me
Speaker 1: see what I can do. So now she's in a
Speaker 1: walk and talk with the judge who is named Lois
Speaker 1: Preston that Lisa always calls Lewis, and she is arguing
Speaker 1: about the facts of the case with Bevy d and
Speaker 1: she's like, what, nothing's changed. The woman Beverly Dangelo is like,
Speaker 1: the kid was in a coma before and now she's
Speaker 1: still in a coma.
Speaker 3: Nothing is She is Bevy a real nickname. I think
Speaker 3: people are named Bevy, but I just started oo. I
Speaker 3: like that. I like that a lot.
Speaker 2: That's cute. I love him, and she's the best. She's
Speaker 2: stunning in this episode.
Speaker 1: She really is beautiful. Oh she's a gorgeous woman. I
Speaker 1: thought she was beautiful in Christmasification. I was always like,
Speaker 1: why are you cheating? I mean, I know Christy Brinkley
Speaker 1: is the person he's fantasizing about, but I was like,
Speaker 1: you've a pretty hot wife. But Novak is trying to
Speaker 1: argue that this will soon be a murder charge, and
Speaker 1: Beverly's like, uh no, it's not, because the mom has
Speaker 1: no intention of ever turning off that life support. And
Speaker 1: Casey's like, well, I think the jury should be able
Speaker 1: to consider newly discovered evidence, and Beverly dangelo is like,
Speaker 1: only if it's presented by the defense, Like, so, I
Speaker 1: guess that's a part of law that I didn't really
Speaker 1: know that if there, if the case is like kind
Speaker 1: of ended, new evidence can only be introduced by the defense.
Speaker 1: It's not by the prosecution. They only get one try
Speaker 1: so that she said, as she puts it, they only
Speaker 1: get one bite of the apple. And then the judge
Speaker 1: sides with her Beverly D'Angelo, who just smirks and walks away,
Speaker 1: and later Stabler walks into the empty courtroom to find Novak,
Speaker 1: who tells him, yeah, it was a hung jury.
Speaker 3: They were hopelessly deadlocked.
Speaker 1: And he's like, but you're retrying, right, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna make a difference. She's too sympathetic.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler gets his like far away look idea
Speaker 1: face with a little light bulb above it. And now
Speaker 1: he's in the hospital and Evelyn is reading good Night
Speaker 1: Moon to Lucy and she sees Stabler and is like,
Speaker 1: why are you here? And he's like, I'm here to
Speaker 1: see Lucy and she gives him the old do you
Speaker 1: have children Detective, which honestly, that would be funny on
Speaker 1: a T shirt, like do you have children?
Speaker 3: Detective? They say it so much that would be a
Speaker 3: fun T shirt.
Speaker 1: And he begs her to let Lucy go. He's like, please,
Speaker 1: like end her pain, and she's like, I believe that's
Speaker 1: up to God. And he's like, bitch, you don't think
Speaker 1: I'm the most Catholic motherfucker you've ever met. I believe
Speaker 1: it's up to God too. But one of my kids
Speaker 1: had something like this where there was nothing I could
Speaker 1: do to alleviate their suffering. I would pray to God
Speaker 1: that he would help me end their suffering. And she
Speaker 1: says if she loses to her daughter, she might as
Speaker 1: well be dead too, and it's like you've lost her,
Speaker 1: like this is a husk of a child sitting next
Speaker 1: to you, Like I don't know what you think is
Speaker 1: happening here. But now Stabler is talking to Fred Thompson
Speaker 1: aka DA Arthur Branch and he wants the DA's office
Speaker 1: to take on the fight to take Lucy Off's life
Speaker 1: support and he's like, they successfully did it in California
Speaker 1: and then like Branch was like, yeah, but then they
Speaker 1: failed in Florida, like it kind of depends on the
Speaker 1: case and where you are. And Stabler's like, I don't
Speaker 1: really care about Evelyn. I'm not trying to get her.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to like get her on murder. I
Speaker 1: just think this girl is in constant pain and we
Speaker 1: need to stop it. And he's like, okay, fine, but
Speaker 1: remember Evelyn is her mom. We gotta be careful or
Speaker 1: they're gonna paint us as baby killers as well. So
Speaker 1: it seems like he's saying yes that he will do this,
Speaker 1: but we don't get a definitive answer in the next scene,
Speaker 1: Novak's pissed at Stable. She's like, why'd you go over
Speaker 1: my head to the boss and he's like, I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to do what's right for Lucy and Novak's like, look,
Speaker 1: I don't even know. He apologizes. He's like, I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone over your head, and he's like, what do
Speaker 1: we do here? And Novak's like, I don't even know
Speaker 1: what I would do.
Speaker 3: I'm not a mom.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would do if I was Evelyn,
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 3: Don't know what I would do if I shook my
Speaker 3: baby to death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like you don't have to be a
Speaker 1: mom to know what if you hear of a child
Speaker 1: that's in constant pain that's going to be a vegetable
Speaker 1: for the rest of their life like that, that's not work.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's my opinion, but maybe other people are going to
Speaker 1: be like, you're crazy, wait for a miracle, but I
Speaker 1: don't think you do that, Like, yeah, but you were
Speaker 1: raised by a doctor I guess who's also a Republican
Speaker 1: in pro life, So who knows. Listen, Craigan goes, welcome
Speaker 1: to SVU, It's not all black and white.
Speaker 3: So I think maybe this is Novak's first season.
Speaker 1: So they're trying to like still teach her, teach her
Speaker 1: lessons and shit, And now in the judges chambers they're
Speaker 1: arguing it out again, and Novak is saying, the ethical
Speaker 1: option here is to take her off of life support,
Speaker 1: and Beverly d'angelo's like, they just want to be able
Speaker 1: to charge Evelyn with murder and she's like, no, I
Speaker 1: represent Lucy's best interests, and Beverly DiAngelo goes, well, it's
Speaker 1: hardly in her.
Speaker 3: Best interest to be dead. And I thought that that
Speaker 3: line delivery was so good. She's just naturally really funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this dumb bitch mom is in the
Speaker 1: meeting and she's like, well, I've really been praying for
Speaker 1: her to get better, and it's like, oh, oh you've
Speaker 1: been praying.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's see if that.
Speaker 1: Works, like and then you know, they're arguing like she's
Speaker 1: in God's hands, not yours, and then Beverly DiAngelo's character
Speaker 1: goes the prosecution wants to execute a helpless child, and
Speaker 1: you Judge Preston is like, girl, stop, like you're doing
Speaker 1: the most enough, and Novak argues that missus Pritchard's right
Speaker 1: to like control her daughter's living or dying is nullified
Speaker 1: by her legal predicament. Her judgment is biased because her
Speaker 1: freedom depends on her daughter living.
Speaker 3: And so the.
Speaker 1: Judge says, oh, okay, great, so prove to me that
Speaker 1: cessation of life support is in Lucy's best interest.
Speaker 3: So now we're in court and.
Speaker 1: We've got doctor uh I forgot her name, but Julie
Speaker 1: White is the actress we forgot. We get her the
Speaker 1: brain doc on the stand, and she's giving all of
Speaker 1: the extremely.
Speaker 3: Sad, fucked up details.
Speaker 1: She's like, every time we touch Lucy, she has a seizure,
Speaker 1: her bones are brittle, she literally got broke a hip
Speaker 1: getting her diaper changed the other day.
Speaker 3: It's not good.
Speaker 1: Then Beverly D'Angelo gets her chance to cross examine the
Speaker 1: doctor and she pulls the trick like ever.
Speaker 3: Heard of this person or this person or this person,
Speaker 3: And she.
Speaker 1: Goes, well, I'm not their doctor, and she was like,
Speaker 1: thank god because all of them jumped out of Coma's
Speaker 1: ready for pancakes.
Speaker 3: She's like, so do you admit miracles happen?
Speaker 1: And the doctor's like, I guess, and she's like she
Speaker 1: says she had permanent, irreparable brain damage. Life support is
Speaker 1: keeping a shell of a person alive, like there is
Speaker 1: no hope. Like the doctor is like, I think sometimes
Speaker 1: people are in comas and it's kind of unknown why,
Speaker 1: and then they can just come out of it.
Speaker 3: But this is like, there are scans of her brain.
Speaker 3: It is mush.
Speaker 1: It is not coming back, it cannot regenerate itself, Like
Speaker 1: there is no hope that she'll ever like live and
Speaker 1: be like on her own, off of breathing tubes and
Speaker 1: life support. Again, So seizure's brittlebones, constant excruciating pain. And
Speaker 1: finally they're pointing all this stuff out, and finally Evelyn
Speaker 1: is like, okay, stop, turn off the machines. I don't
Speaker 1: want Lucy to stuffer anymore. Just turn off the machines.
Speaker 1: I don't care. And then she confesses to everything right
Speaker 1: there on the spot. She basically turns to Stable and
Speaker 1: confesses to him. She's like, I did it. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I love her, Please turn off the machines. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why she's begging the court. It's like
Speaker 1: your decision. You could literally just whisper to your lawyer.
Speaker 1: Let's turn off the machines right now, like it's you're
Speaker 1: still in your hands. She's like, I loved my baby.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to fuck. I just wanted to have
Speaker 1: a night for myself. She woke up, she wouldn't stop screaming.
Speaker 1: I was so angry. I just shook her over and
Speaker 1: over until she stopped crying. It's like, never occurred to me.
Speaker 1: My kids make me so fucking bonkers where I will
Speaker 1: literally go like, but I would never shave, like I
Speaker 1: don't know to grab their boy.
Speaker 3: They're so little. I don't know. I just would never
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: Any that horny to me, that Harney could be me,
Speaker 1: couldn't be me, Like, I've never been that horny in
Speaker 1: my life. So she says, she shook her until she
Speaker 1: stopped crying, and then she's like and then I put
Speaker 1: her down, and she smiled up at me, and she
Speaker 1: seemed Okay. It's like your child smiled at you after
Speaker 1: you shook the shit out of her, Like, God, that's sick,
Speaker 1: Like I don't I mean, Supressure wasn't scared anyway. After
Speaker 1: the doctor doctor told her that the baby had been shaken,
Speaker 1: she just kept telling herself it couldn't be her.
Speaker 3: Fault, and that's where you lose me completely too.
Speaker 1: You're like, well, when the doctor told me what happened,
Speaker 1: I just kept telling myself, well, it couldn't have been
Speaker 1: my fault, because you're like a sociopath.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's hard. It's denial.
Speaker 2: We're asking someone act normal and abnormal circumstances.
Speaker 1: This bitch killed her baby. She's gotten that, you're right, but.
Speaker 3: She did kill her to Fox, so I'm.
Speaker 1: Still not on her side. So the whole ession is
Speaker 1: to Stabler, like she has something to prove to him,
Speaker 1: which is funny to me, but anyway, so we get
Speaker 1: that that's done.
Speaker 3: Cord is over. Final scene, Cragan meets.
Speaker 1: Stabler at a bar. And they're always making Craigan meet
Speaker 1: at a bar. It's like he is an alcoholic. Can
Speaker 1: you guys ever, just like meet at fro Yo or something.
Speaker 1: It's wild and he tells U Stabler they turned off
Speaker 1: the machines. It took about ten minutes and Lucy died.
Speaker 1: It was peaceful and Evelyn was able to be there.
Speaker 1: The jail brought her down, like the prison. So he
Speaker 1: then we get Stabler, I don't know, gunning for an
Speaker 1: Emmy or something. He gives this long monologue where he's
Speaker 1: like really tearful, it's really really like fucked like it's
Speaker 1: touching and like really emotional. And he shows Craigan a
Speaker 1: picture of Maureene when she was Lucy's Ah, she looks
Speaker 1: eighteen months old, like I don't know two at the most.
Speaker 1: And he tells a story about how he was just
Speaker 1: out of the marines Cathy was knocked up again. He
Speaker 1: was home alone with marine and she spilled grape juice
Speaker 1: all over this new carpet that they had just bought
Speaker 1: that they couldn't afford. He grabbed her to spanker, but
Speaker 1: she twisted away and he slapped her in the face,
Speaker 1: and as his hand was coming down for a second time,
Speaker 1: a voice in his head said stop. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: and I'm standing there holding this limp little girl, my
Speaker 1: limp little girl, and I'm saying sorry over and over again.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, I could have killed my kid
Speaker 1: over a lousy carpet, and it's fucked up, like like
Speaker 1: I'm getting a little bit of goosebumps just retelling it.
Speaker 1: Like it's a crazy moment where he's he's basically empathizing
Speaker 1: with this woman and how you know he's made mistakes
Speaker 1: of moments of anger with his children. Hence, you know,
Speaker 1: Craigan's already asked for his keys and he's like, let
Speaker 1: me take you home, so they walk off, And that,
Speaker 1: my friends, is dick wolf. I'm not that excited to
Speaker 1: hear about the real stuff, but I made it.
Speaker 3: I made it palatable.
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a break and we'll come back
Speaker 2: to some shaking baby news. Okay, guys, so this is
Speaker 2: sad and obvious.
Speaker 3: I felt like you would have a hard time with
Speaker 3: this one, Cara, but thank you for taking it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I well, no even telling you, I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is not gonna be any but this is such an
Speaker 2: overview that hopefully won't be too traumatic.
Speaker 3: And then but there are dead babies.
Speaker 2: But also there are so many cases, so much controversy.
Speaker 2: I didn't know, and I hope you like the ones
Speaker 2: that I kind of chose to focus on and why.
Speaker 2: But there is obviously tons of information out there, so
Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome, And like I said up top, there's
Speaker 2: medical professionals would prefer to call it abusive head trauma.
Speaker 2: So it's abusive head trauma. I will I'm not a doctor,
Speaker 2: I will continue to call it shaken baby syndrome. Now
Speaker 2: it's abusive head trauma. We'll see what if I can
Speaker 2: remember it. And according to the National Center on Shaken
Speaker 2: Baby Syndrome, there are between six hundred and fourteen hundred
Speaker 2: cases in the US each year. But that's like like
Speaker 2: a five or.
Speaker 3: Six year old fact.
Speaker 2: The constellation of symptoms known as the triad are brain swelling,
Speaker 2: bleeding on the surface of the brain, and bleeding behind
Speaker 2: the eyes.
Speaker 3: That's so funny.
Speaker 1: Melinda called it a constellation of symptoms as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the writer look at the same article.
Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, no, I think that's just like the language.
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just had never heard of like a constellation
Speaker 1: of symptoms.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I never have heard that like phrase.
Speaker 2: But go on, yeah, I only think about men in
Speaker 2: black and that little cat with her little necklace, so
Speaker 2: those I guess that was a full galaxy. Okay, So
Speaker 2: if those three symptoms are together, then it has been
Speaker 2: uniformly accepted as evidence that a crime has been committed,
Speaker 2: even if other signs of abuse aren't there. So you
Speaker 2: don't really need like bruises, broken bones or anything else.
Speaker 2: Like if the triad exists, those have become okay and
Speaker 2: saying like abuse has taken place others, so signs of it,
Speaker 2: and we saw some with the baby Lucy, but it's unconsciousness,
Speaker 2: unconscious unconsciousness, Okay, you got it. Yeah, but what's the
Speaker 2: episode we did? Conscience conscience, conscience, Yeah, seizures, not smiling
Speaker 2: or babbling or talking, extreme irritability, vomiting, breathing difficulties, lethargy,
Speaker 2: and then paler blue colored skin, like a soft spot
Speaker 2: on to the top of their head that's kind of
Speaker 2: built up, and inability to lift their head, widened pupils,
Speaker 2: inability to focus or follow movement with their eyes, tremors,
Speaker 2: and coma. So a lot of signs, yeah, and then
Speaker 2: sometimes there are no immediate signs that and they go
Speaker 2: unnoticed and can cause huge problems in the future. Like
Speaker 2: I found one thing that I didn't really talk about,
Speaker 2: but like a child died twelve years after from from
Speaker 2: like residual shit from being shaken as a baby.
Speaker 3: So you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it happens most soten when a parent or
Speaker 2: another caregiver becomes frustrated angry because a baby is crying
Speaker 2: or they're unable to cope with the responsibilities of caring
Speaker 2: for a child, or they might not know that shaking
Speaker 2: a baby can be dangerous. Like that's a thing too,
Speaker 2: I think now it's such a thing that like everyone knows.
Speaker 3: I found one clip from.
Speaker 2: Doctor phil And who was a doctor, being like one
Speaker 2: shake can kill a baby, and it's like, Okay, that
Speaker 2: was a little panicky, that's not.
Speaker 1: A yeah, but it had like a big moment in
Speaker 1: like the nineties or something.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, oh, we will talk about Yeah, nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: seven is when shaken baby really hit the scene. Jelly
Speaker 2: shoes and shaking babies. Okay, this I'm so disrespectful. So
Speaker 2: it's considered a severe type of child abuse and all
Speaker 2: you know, cause it causes swelling, bruising, bleeding in the
Speaker 2: baby's brain, neck, and spinal core damage, fractures to the
Speaker 2: baby's ribs, collarbone, arms, and even legs, and can lead
Speaker 2: to brain damage, lifelong disabilities, and even death. Young children
Speaker 2: have proportionally bigger and heavier heads than adults and weaker
Speaker 2: neck muscles, and their brains are immature, which makes them
Speaker 2: more susceptible to the injuries. So, yeah, their heads are
Speaker 2: just too big for the little necks, and so when
Speaker 2: you shake it, it's just like the head mobility is
Speaker 2: a lot bigger than if like I were to you know,
Speaker 2: Karen and I were to shake each other. And the
Speaker 2: diagnosis gave a generation of doctors and prosecutors a way
Speaker 2: to account for unexplained head injuries and babies and for
Speaker 2: stronger cases of child abuse when police had no witnesses, confessions,
Speaker 2: and only circumstantial evidence. And so I didn't know that
Speaker 2: this was controversial, did you No? Yeah, So like a
Speaker 2: lot of people think that this is all based on
Speaker 2: junk science and that shaking baby syndrome is fucking bullshit,
Speaker 2: and a lot of doctors and professionals that have like
Speaker 2: testified in the stand regret it. And the guy who
Speaker 2: created it and coined it and found it it was
Speaker 2: like horrified and disappointed that the way it's been used
Speaker 2: in criminal trials.
Speaker 1: And they're just like accusing random people who made who
Speaker 1: maybe their kids died of SIDS or something, and they're
Speaker 1: just like, up, you shaken baby, You shaked your kid
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's just like it's caused a lot
Speaker 2: of contra Like there's just a lot of back and
Speaker 2: forth and a lot of different opinions, and I.
Speaker 3: Had no idea. I thought it was like, this is
Speaker 3: just the thing.
Speaker 2: So some doctors believe that other factors other than shaking
Speaker 2: that have nothing to do with criminal behavior might also
Speaker 2: describe the triad. So the guy like I mentioned, who
Speaker 2: first identified baby shaken syndrome is Norman.
Speaker 3: Guth Kelk who became the Norman. Let's call him Norm.
Speaker 2: So Norm became the pediatric neurosurgeon in Great Britain.
Speaker 3: That's cool. He became suit.
Speaker 2: It's like I didn't write that, okay, But he became
Speaker 2: super curious about babies who were coming into his hospital
Speaker 2: with unexplained brain injuries. And he noticed a pattern. And
Speaker 2: he said, where he was in Manchester, a common way
Speaker 2: to punish a baby was to shake it, like not
Speaker 2: hard but light shaking was kind of like a cultural
Speaker 2: way that parents punished their kids, h and so, And
Speaker 2: what he realized was like they weren't admit and then
Speaker 2: finally parents would be like, okay, I shook the baby.
Speaker 3: I gave the baby a good shaking.
Speaker 2: And so that gave him the basis for his paper
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one on shaken baby syndrome and then
Speaker 2: when prosecutors started using it in court to convict people,
Speaker 2: he was absolutely shocked. He told the Retro Report, which
Speaker 2: is part of the New York Times, he was shocked
Speaker 2: and desperately disappointed. And he was against defining it as
Speaker 2: a syndrome and the idea that every time this happens
Speaker 2: that it must be a crime. So he began reviewing
Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome where he believed caregivers have been wrongly accused.
Speaker 2: And he did that his whole life, and he died
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen at age one hundred. His big thing
Speaker 2: was reevaluating crimes where he thought people were being falsely
Speaker 2: accused for crimes they didn't commit. So in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 2: and this is what you said, like there was a
Speaker 2: big moment in the US where shaken baby was huge.
Speaker 3: And I know this name even yeah, yeah, So this
Speaker 3: was the case.
Speaker 2: So it was nineteen ninety seven a young British nanny
Speaker 2: was charged with murder by shaken baby syndrome, and it
Speaker 2: brought everything into the national spotlight and raised a scientific
Speaker 2: debate that continues to shape child abuse cases today.
Speaker 3: Like I just can't believe it.
Speaker 2: So it captivated the US because nothing makes people more
Speaker 2: upset than injured children. So people were riled the fuck up.
Speaker 2: The nanny's name is Luis. Are you proud?
Speaker 3: How much? Always that is?
Speaker 2: So? Louis Woodward is the name of the nanny, and
Speaker 2: she was charged with murder in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: You're still saying Louis, like if they did man a
Speaker 1: Mexican man's name?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but what at lewis Louise? Louise? We'll put
Speaker 3: a z in there. You probably should.
Speaker 2: So her name was Louise Woodward and she was a
Speaker 2: British shapair working for Suneil and Deborah Epen in Newton, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: She was eighteen years old and accused of shaking an
Speaker 2: eight month old boy, Matthew Epan, so aggressively that he died.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. She was in Newton, mass I know
Speaker 3: a lot of people from there. I thought you would
Speaker 3: because of you know, the New England of it all.
Speaker 3: It's close to my college.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not that far from my college, so
Speaker 1: I knew a lot of them college from there. Young.
Speaker 3: So she called the police. She made the call.
Speaker 2: So if she did it and did something terrible, like
Speaker 2: why would she call the police, or maybe she didn't
Speaker 2: know the connection between her actions and you know what
Speaker 2: it was happening to the baby.
Speaker 3: We don't really know.
Speaker 2: So the autopsy showed that the infant had died of
Speaker 2: a two inch fracture to the back of his head,
Speaker 2: and prosecutors said that she had shaken the baby until
Speaker 2: his brain hemorrhaged. She was held without bail at a
Speaker 2: maximum security prison following her arrest. The defense, which was
Speaker 2: paid for by the AU Pairs Agency, like so, yeah,
Speaker 2: the agency paid for it, and the defense argued that
Speaker 2: the boy's injuries may have come early, like weeks earlier,
Speaker 2: and that it was not from her, because so he
Speaker 2: had a fractured head and arm that seemed like it
Speaker 2: could have happened weeks prior. But there was and there
Speaker 2: was no way to prove it by a reasonable doubt
Speaker 2: because while a doctor was on the stand, the defense
Speaker 2: like kept yelling.
Speaker 3: Were you there? Were you there?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And that's the big thing, like there are no witnesses.
Speaker 2: There is no reasonable doubt in these cases.
Speaker 1: And that's what Well, there is plenty of reasonable doubt,
Speaker 1: is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, lots of doubt
Speaker 2: So on the stand, Woodward said that the she only
Speaker 2: shook Matthew lightly in a gentle motion to try to
Speaker 2: get him to respond when she already found him unresponsive,
Speaker 2: and she ganda panic. So she's saying that, like she
Speaker 2: just was like, oh my god, the bass, wake up,
Speaker 2: wake up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that's what she admitted to.
Speaker 2: And she said that like she was communicating this to
Speaker 2: the cops and that they kind of twisted the words god.
Speaker 2: And so that's the defense. So the key prosecution witness
Speaker 2: was doctor Patrick Barnes, and he's a neurodiologist, neuroadiologist, so
Speaker 2: he's a neuro radiologist and in quotes, I was adamant
Speaker 2: that it had to be child abuse, shaken baby syndrome,
Speaker 2: he told the retro report, as repeated by the New
Speaker 2: York Times. But she maintained her innocence throughout the three
Speaker 2: week trial, but the jury, after three days of deliberation,
Speaker 2: found her guilty of second degree murder, and she was
Speaker 2: sentenced to fifteen years to life. But within days of
Speaker 2: the trial, the judge called the murder conviction an injustice.
Speaker 2: He knocked it down to involuntary manslaughter and reduced her
Speaker 2: sentence to time served to two hundred and seventy nine days.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know this name was in my head. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I know the Louise Woodward case. I
Speaker 1: don't know anything about it. Like I was like a
Speaker 1: teenager when this case happened, and I heard about it
Speaker 1: all the time, and I was probably babysitting at the
Speaker 1: time and.
Speaker 3: Nervous to hear about it.
Speaker 1: But like, but I also didn't know any of this
Speaker 1: holy shit keep going.
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, well this I feel like the nineties when
Speaker 2: you're that young a lot of it. Like I like,
Speaker 2: I totally I heard about the mortgage crisis.
Speaker 3: I don't care. It didn't affect me.
Speaker 1: I mean about Monica Lewinsky, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's a slut. Like I didn't really realize like any
Speaker 1: of what was going on until like later when I
Speaker 1: really researched things.
Speaker 3: I knew there was a cigar in the pussy. I
Speaker 3: did know that.
Speaker 1: I knew that too, but I thought, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: the way she was portrayed in the media is exactly
Speaker 1: how I believe she was. Like I did not get
Speaker 1: the nuances of that case at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, the judge said in a sixteen page decision
Speaker 2: that he did not find any malice on her part
Speaker 2: to support the conviction. Woodward showed no emotion during this reduction,
Speaker 2: in comparison to like when she received the guilty verdict,
Speaker 2: she was fully crying.
Speaker 3: But I think she.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Deadpam So the Epens, in an interview with
Speaker 2: the Boston Globe after this, said what does that say
Speaker 2: about justice? Does it say that you could just kill
Speaker 2: a baby and that your youth and inexperience with cranky
Speaker 2: babies counts for more than a child's life and I
Speaker 2: do you know they're obviously in pain. Though some praised
Speaker 2: his decision here in the States because it held her
Speaker 2: responsible for the baby's death without unduly punishing her for
Speaker 2: what seemed like an unintentional crime, but most of Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: Was pissed as hell, outraged.
Speaker 2: But Woodward returned back to England, where to many British
Speaker 2: people she was seen as innocent, even though a manslaughter
Speaker 2: charge like did stick with her. The judge says, didn't
Speaker 2: say innocent, It just made the conviction less. But to
Speaker 2: the British people it was like she's innocent, she's out
Speaker 2: pall yeah. And in the UK they were just kind
Speaker 2: of horrified by the televising of the case since in
Speaker 2: Britain they don't allow cameras in their courtroom, and like
Speaker 2: they just were really confused by the Americans, like pre
Speaker 2: trial publicity that generate that they believe generated a prejudice
Speaker 2: prejudice jury, and that like the parents of the baby
Speaker 2: were on TV all the time while the jury was deliberating,
Speaker 2: Like their laws are just really different there.
Speaker 3: So they were like pretty gross stout.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like how most the world is confused
Speaker 2: why we have medical like pill commercials, Like that's not
Speaker 2: really a thing outside of the US. So, in her
Speaker 2: hometown of Elton in Cheshire, Miss Woodward so like all
Speaker 2: her friends and neighbors packed into every corner of their
Speaker 2: local pub, the Rigor, and they watched the judge reduce
Speaker 2: her sentence and she didn't have to serve more time,
Speaker 2: and people were jumping and grabbing each other. They sang
Speaker 2: songs about her freedom in the tune of soccer songs.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she's from the area where shaking was
Speaker 1: like a cultural thing or was that too much earlier
Speaker 1: than her than how old she was.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that I mean, you can't really
Speaker 2: get rid of that stuff with an a generation, you
Speaker 2: know that. Yeah, I don't know where chester Shire to
Speaker 2: Manchester is, but yeah, could be. There were cut fire crackers,
Speaker 2: car honking and then Woodward came back home and gave
Speaker 2: an interview to the BBC when returning home and maintains
Speaker 2: her innocence and that she did nothing wrong. She believes
Speaker 2: that she was made to be a scapegoat, particularly by
Speaker 2: those parents and back in her home of England, she's
Speaker 2: a dance teacher.
Speaker 3: Even though she did go to law school.
Speaker 2: She worked on a law firm but then said no thanks,
Speaker 2: became a dance teacher, and she got married and took
Speaker 2: the dad's last like the guy's last name, and has
Speaker 2: a child, so she has a daughter of her own.
Speaker 2: And with a quote to the Daily Mail, she wrote,
Speaker 2: I know there are some people waiting for me to
Speaker 2: have a baby so they can.
Speaker 3: Say nasty things to me.
Speaker 2: It upsets me, but that's not going to stop me
Speaker 2: for leading my life. I am innocent, I've done nothing wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm entitled to enjoy my life and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to apologize for being happy. But like the article that
Speaker 2: I read that in was on Yahoo. Yeah, yeah, who no,
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, finance and it's from Cosmopolitan, and the
Speaker 2: it was called Where's Louis Woodward? The Killer Nanny? So
Speaker 2: like they still called her the killer nanny even in
Speaker 2: this thing that was like years after she was home
Speaker 2: like with the baby and everything, and they're like, and
Speaker 2: where's the killer nanny?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she wasn't innocent. She still had an involuntary
Speaker 2: manslaughter charge, so it's not like she's fully innocent. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't really have like opinions. I feel
Speaker 2: I obviously feel bad for the parents who.
Speaker 3: Have I wonder what happened? Yeah, I wonder, Like it's
Speaker 3: it's the problem.
Speaker 1: It's not really the defense's job to present an alternative
Speaker 1: theory of the crime.
Speaker 3: They just had to prove that. So it's kind of like,
Speaker 3: but what did happen?
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah? And then very annoyingly, you're gonna like
Speaker 2: you're gonna hate this. It's not about the shaking, but
Speaker 2: there started to become giant contempt towards the mother and
Speaker 2: working mothers and how you shouldn't let other people take
Speaker 2: care of your kids. God, and even though in that
Speaker 2: episode the mother did it, they're acting like moms don't
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, of all those instances of shaking baby, I
Speaker 1: bet it's a ton of moms. It's not just like
Speaker 1: fucking nanny's doing it, you know, or it's dad's or
Speaker 1: it's uncles or it's like whoever. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people around children.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have some facts later that have nothing
Speaker 2: to do with shaking baby, but I found interesting in
Speaker 2: my research, So we'll talk about the highest rate of
Speaker 2: like who who abusers? Oh okay, but both the mom
Speaker 2: and dad were doctors, an optimologist and an anesthesiologist, and
Speaker 2: people were questioning their judgment of leaving the kid with
Speaker 2: somebody else. Newspaper headlines read lifestyle of a yuppie put
Speaker 2: on trial. There was like montage clips of people talking
Speaker 2: shit about them, and one was horrific. And some guys said, well,
Speaker 2: they didn't want a kid, so now they don't have
Speaker 2: one just because they had a nanny. Like I guess,
Speaker 2: the nineties were way more far away than like I realize.
Speaker 2: But people were like, I would never leave my kid
Speaker 2: with someone. She got hate mail and yeah, and.
Speaker 1: It's of course coming to her because it's full misogyny.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like the dad, dad can go out and work. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also, she was only working three days a week and
Speaker 2: would come home for lunch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like way better than what most working moms
Speaker 1: can do.
Speaker 3: Like, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: And like the woman in the episode, I mean, she
Speaker 2: was guilty, but like if people were mad that she
Speaker 2: had a nanny, like her husband died, what do you want? Yeah,
Speaker 2: then we should live in this. I mean I believe everyone.
Speaker 2: I think I believe in a base income for everyone,
Speaker 2: but I think stay at home mothers just like should
Speaker 2: be given an income from the government and alma, all
Speaker 2: women I think should be given money so they can
Speaker 2: escape abusive partners. I think all like, I believe in
Speaker 2: all of that.
Speaker 1: I mean I was just home with my kids for
Speaker 1: seventeen fucking days in a row.
Speaker 3: And it was really hard.
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about stay at home moms and
Speaker 1: being like wow, wow, no.
Speaker 2: Because I think because I don't want children, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm a feminist, people think like I might be anti
Speaker 2: like something, and I'm like, pay stay at home moms
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So after the trial, you know, I mentioned the doctor who,
Speaker 2: like the prosecution was yelling or the defenseeing neuroradiologist. Yes,
Speaker 2: So this is the neuro radiologist, doctor Barnes, and he
Speaker 2: was on the stand for the prosecution and getting.
Speaker 3: Yelled at like were you there? Were you there?
Speaker 2: So he was the witness for the prosecution, and he
Speaker 2: has rethought his testimony is and is now convinced that
Speaker 2: the diagnosis happened too fast in criminal cases, and other
Speaker 2: causes could be infections, diseases, earlier injuries from accidental falls,
Speaker 2: and even strokes that occurred in utero. Like I saw
Speaker 2: one case where a man served all this time and
Speaker 2: then they read tested stuff because new medical examiners, like
Speaker 2: a lot of these cases, people get put away and
Speaker 2: then a new chief medical examiner starts and starts re
Speaker 2: examining cases and they get to choose what happens. And
Speaker 2: so like they found one case where one of the
Speaker 2: babies actually had like twenty five like all these strokes
Speaker 2: in utero. It's just a controversy that I didn't know existed.
Speaker 2: I thought it was like, this is what it is.
Speaker 2: One New York Times article stated, like shaken or not,
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, the dominant issue is
Speaker 2: child abuse, and child abuse is not good. And this
Speaker 2: is the other tidbit that I found that has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with this, but I thought it was interesting
Speaker 2: because of who we are. So various studies over the years,
Speaker 2: as reported by The New York Times, suggests that the
Speaker 2: most serious threat to a small child's well being is
Speaker 2: the presence of a mother's living boyfriend. Ah and they
Speaker 2: source the American Academy of Pediatrics. There was an eight
Speaker 2: year study and it showed that a how told with
Speaker 2: an unrelated adults were nearly fifty times kids were fifty
Speaker 2: times is likely to die of inflicted injuries if there
Speaker 2: was unrelated adults in the home and eighty three percent
Speaker 2: of those were perpetrated by the person that's unrelated.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So and that's I always say this. If a man
Speaker 2: wants to date you and you have children, do a
Speaker 2: background check.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for doing all of this work on
Speaker 1: shaking baby.
Speaker 3: I don't know where. I don't know what to think.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think with anything like courts and law
Speaker 1: enforcement can be make mistakes and be corrupt, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure people have been accused of things, but I do
Speaker 1: think it exists, right, Like people do fucking snap when
Speaker 1: their babies won't stop crying and do anything to shut
Speaker 1: them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do believe that the guy, the doctor
Speaker 2: in England in the seventies who came up with this,
Speaker 2: like I think he thinks it's real and everyone think.
Speaker 2: I think it was just the shock of how it
Speaker 2: was used so liberally and criminal trials, yes, is what
Speaker 2: kind of alarmed the medical community. But but yeah, there
Speaker 2: was a heyday, Like there was just like a montage
Speaker 2: of people on daytime talk shows being like shaking baby,
Speaker 2: shaking baby, and like I've seen them like bus ads
Speaker 2: like don't shake your baby, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all that stuff.
Speaker 2: But that's why you shouldn't even if you really want kids,
Speaker 2: it's so hard. Like that's why another reason why you
Speaker 2: should not force people to raise children that don't want children.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they will share.
Speaker 1: And just like in that first year of life, there's
Speaker 1: like postpartum, there's all kinds of like emotional and physical
Speaker 1: things that moms and dads are going through. And like
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing anyone, but I'm just saying, like mental
Speaker 1: health access has got to be part of this too,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: So it's not blaming parents, but I just feel so sad,
Speaker 2: like your baby is dead and now you're on trial
Speaker 2: and you're like what and then and you can't even
Speaker 2: it's yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, horrible.
Speaker 1: But listen, we've got an amazing palette cleanser to make
Speaker 1: you forget about all of these deceased babies. Our guest
Speaker 1: is amazing, So do not go anywhere, guys, it's guest time.
Speaker 1: And I do not say this lightly when I say
Speaker 1: that our guest today is an absolute icon. You know
Speaker 1: her as Ellen Griswold from all of the Vacation films.
Speaker 3: You know her from American History X.
Speaker 1: You may have seen her on several separate episodes of SVU,
Speaker 1: where she not only plays a character in today's episode,
Speaker 1: but she also plays Sara Fina Caresi, mother of Dominic
Speaker 1: quote unquote Sonny Careesi. And she also was recently in
Speaker 1: the huge Christmas smash Violent Night. But on today's episode,
Speaker 1: you know her as defense attorney Rebecca balth This, guys,
Speaker 1: please enjoy our amazing convo with Beverly DiAngelo.
Speaker 2: You're such a get for us, Like we're just so excited.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you're so down. But Kara wrote the medicine.
Speaker 2: Say it out loud, Cara.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I remember you're in court. You're asking Melinda
Speaker 3: Warner the medical Exameter. Have you ever heard of chemo.
Speaker 1: Phagosytic lympho lympho histosis? I can't. I'm reading, I know,
Speaker 1: and it rolls right off your tube like you went to.
Speaker 4: Medical took a lot of professional application. What is it again,
Speaker 4: hem hem hemo.
Speaker 3: Lympho.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have like medicaltosisosis.
Speaker 4: Okay, because I couldn't when when I read that, I went,
Speaker 4: are you kidding me? That's a laugh line. There's like,
Speaker 4: there's this thing I used to do. I'm the only
Speaker 4: person in the world that thinks it's funny. But if
Speaker 4: we were in person, I would do it with you.
Speaker 4: And it's not even a game. It's just I think
Speaker 4: I made it up, but in between takes to just
Speaker 4: keep myself from being bored. But like you know, one
Speaker 4: person you can see me has to take a sip
Speaker 4: of water, right ha ha. And now as you're taking
Speaker 4: the sip of water, the other person says, where were
Speaker 4: you on the night of October sixteenth? And you go,
Speaker 4: I was with foul Duncan and then the other person
Speaker 4: and then you take a sip. Well, the other person says,
Speaker 4: Flower Vuncalpusa died on June nineteen eighty two and then
Speaker 4: you go spit it out. So to me, I didn't
Speaker 4: really put that all together right as in telling. But
Speaker 4: to me, when I read the name of that condition,
Speaker 4: I thought it was a medicine or the condition, I
Speaker 4: thought all I could think of was that game. You know,
Speaker 4: have you ever heard of him at official? Sounds like
Speaker 4: a it has a Nazi tinge to it. I'm so
Speaker 4: glad you picked that because it's the first thing I
Speaker 4: thought of when I found out that you had this
Speaker 4: podcast and dissected SVU.
Speaker 1: No and we love your back as like Sarahie Currency
Speaker 1: the most Italian name of all time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wish they'd be back.
Speaker 3: Well, I bet you well, I bet you.
Speaker 4: You know was recurring, But what happened was what Narberto
Speaker 4: said was that you know, they were exploring when Warren
Speaker 4: Light was the showrunner, which is when I did that
Speaker 4: episode in January of twenty twenty two. That's when we
Speaker 4: shot it. I don't know when it came on. I
Speaker 4: think March or something. But anyway, Warren Light and seconded
Speaker 4: by Norberto, saw that as a recurring character because they
Speaker 4: were thinking of going into Peter Cresi's home life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So you know, I think the episode you
Speaker 1: were in was kind of like you meeting Kelly Gettish's
Speaker 1: character to kind of like, you know, feel her out,
Speaker 1: and so you she we just talked to Kelly Giddish
Speaker 1: and she was raving about you. She was like you,
Speaker 1: She's like you boy yet Beverly D'Angelo and I go,
Speaker 1: we go, we're talking to her this.
Speaker 4: Weak ever, But I mean, really, that show is like
Speaker 4: you know what they say, it starts from the top,
Speaker 4: and Marissa Hagerta is one of the most incredible human
Speaker 4: beings on the planet. Besides her acting chops, She's got
Speaker 4: a heart and a soul and I even her brother
Speaker 4: has a plant store here in La I.
Speaker 3: Got yes, I used to live near it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And now did you see they built that building
Speaker 4: so it doesn't get any sunlight. Oh yeah, they built
Speaker 4: a building on right and Franklin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 4: But anyway, you know, if you need a rare plant,
Speaker 4: you call you know, Mickey Mickey Das.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The thing is that the atmosphere of that shoot, it's
Speaker 4: it's an everybody's emotionally in tune and invested in the show,
Speaker 4: and everybody's supporting each other to do their best, so
Speaker 4: you're not getting you know, little uh fractures anywhere. You know,
Speaker 4: when you come on as a guest, you're like coming
Speaker 4: into heaven, you know what I mean. It's it's it's wonderful,
Speaker 4: it's it's a it was a wonderful atmosphere. And it
Speaker 4: was that from the get go, and I did it
Speaker 4: early on. I mean, I don't know what season it
Speaker 4: was in in two thousand and one, but I think
Speaker 4: that's when I did Shaken one or two thousand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was some doesn't two?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean so that's where it was only five
Speaker 4: years old then. I mean it was a hit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was season five when you did Shaken, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah you did your first one was Course, which I love.
Speaker 2: But I have to say, your character is so funny.
Speaker 1: Your character is just is so quick and like sharp,
Speaker 1: and it's like I don't think so it makes all
Speaker 1: these old jokes and obviously part of that is scripted,
Speaker 1: but like you must have brought something to that too,
Speaker 1: having like years and years of comedy experience.
Speaker 4: You know, I'll tell you something that they say and
Speaker 4: I want to believe it because I'm so old now.
Speaker 4: But they say that, you know, talent doesn't age, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. I don't want to say that
Speaker 4: it's genetic to anybody, but because I really do believe
Speaker 4: in applying yourself and studying and developing a skill set.
Speaker 4: But acting talent is a different thing. Singing talent. You know,
Speaker 4: your voice, your chords can age, your voice gets lower
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. But that core engine of whatever
Speaker 4: it is that allows a person to connect with words
Speaker 4: and inhabit a role and get into that moment, you
Speaker 4: know that that is a talent. You know you can
Speaker 4: learn that deepest thing. But skill set is a lot.
Speaker 4: But so as far as what did I bring from
Speaker 4: years of this and years of that, I never bring anything.
Speaker 4: What I do is I look at what I'm supposed
Speaker 4: to do. I have a hamster real head for research.
Speaker 4: I love deep dies, and I start to invent a
Speaker 4: whole thing, and whatever it is that gets invented out
Speaker 4: of this will come into it. But I never sit
Speaker 4: there and go like, oh, got to have the word
Speaker 4: K because that's a funny letter, you know, I don't.
Speaker 3: I mean all of three.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I look for that. But even that, with the
Speaker 4: way that storytelling has evolved, with this long storytelling medium
Speaker 4: of streaming and stuff. Even those little kind of punchline rules.
Speaker 4: You can have it in a moment, but there's a
Speaker 4: different thing happening now, and so rules don't apply. And
Speaker 4: I have a very specific way that I go through
Speaker 4: a script and the way that I get into a
Speaker 4: character and all that kind of stuff. But it's that
Speaker 4: is something that I've accrued over time, and I've accruited
Speaker 4: over time doing playing and supporting roles because I'm supporting actress.
Speaker 4: So the thing about supporting roles, it is like you
Speaker 4: aren't carrying the full storyline. You know that the the
Speaker 4: the the the audience isn't watching you start here and
Speaker 4: go all the way there and get all those little pieces.
Speaker 4: With a supporting role, you know you are. It's kind
Speaker 4: of like a musical. You're either you're you're You're there
Speaker 4: either to further the plot or to develop character, so
Speaker 4: to present yourself as a whole. This is just something
Speaker 4: that I have always been drawn to, just because of
Speaker 4: my need to. You know, anytime that I've been offered
Speaker 4: a role that was a sporting role, I go, well,
Speaker 4: what happens to her between the time you see her
Speaker 4: in the kitchen and then you don't see you until she's,
Speaker 4: you know, on the steps of the courthouse. I like
Speaker 4: to fill that stuff in so that so that the
Speaker 4: character emerges, so that I know where I'm at, I
Speaker 4: know what's happened, and I can make that up. It
Speaker 4: can be anything. I could have had a fake leg
Speaker 4: put on and throw anything, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: it's it's it's something that that I love to do,
Speaker 4: you know, and that that that gives me room for
Speaker 4: the imagination. And so guest starring on Law and Order,
Speaker 4: you know, I do remember, you know, some of that,
Speaker 4: you know, like figuring out like well, where does she
Speaker 4: live and what did she do after that thing? And
Speaker 4: why did she How did she find out the name
Speaker 4: of that disease?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she dug deep because like that woman pretty It
Speaker 1: was like the medical examiner was like, this is shaking
Speaker 1: baby syndrome, hands down, and you were like, what about
Speaker 1: this seventeen syllable disease?
Speaker 4: I found about? That was also because I was a
Speaker 4: defense lawyer. It was shaking baby right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, she shook that baby. She shook that
Speaker 3: baby for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times your your people are guilty,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't matter your paid defense.
Speaker 4: They're guilty. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And was looking at your IMDb you have like six
Speaker 1: things in pre production or post production. It was like,
Speaker 1: you're like the busiest woman in the world.
Speaker 4: Okay, let me get this out of the way. For
Speaker 4: why I'm working so much now, I had my kids.
Speaker 4: I got pregnant forty eight. I gave birth of forty nine,
Speaker 4: difficult pregnancy, hit the ground running. Was a single mother.
Speaker 4: You know, nobody's really a single mother. But I was,
Speaker 4: you know, split up with their dead by the time
Speaker 4: they were three. So you know, I got I remember,
Speaker 4: I got offered Winter's Bone, and I couldn't it because
Speaker 4: I couldn't be gone for months. Because I'm from Ohio.
Speaker 4: I wanted my kids. I knew that the right way.
Speaker 4: I couldn't even think of an alternative. The right way
Speaker 4: to raise kids was to have at least one parent
Speaker 4: who is emotionally and physically available at all times. Now,
Speaker 4: but Gino is one of our greatest actors. You kind
Speaker 4: of assess everybody's need. He's a true artist. I'm not
Speaker 4: going to say, don't go off and do that Oscar
Speaker 4: worthy thing so that I can go to you know
Speaker 4: Texas and you know, sit on a cactus and saying something,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. It was just it wasn't
Speaker 4: a sacrifice. It was just how do I do all
Speaker 4: this and give my children what they need? So people
Speaker 4: stopped asking me to do things. And I did do
Speaker 4: law and order, but that was before I started saying
Speaker 4: no to, before I broke up with that. And then
Speaker 4: I did entourage, and I did some little teeny independ
Speaker 4: things here and there that really nobody saw and didn't
Speaker 4: really mean anything to anybody. But then my kids graduated
Speaker 4: from high school and they got on their paths, and
Speaker 4: my daughter had to have an operation. She had an
Speaker 4: anomaly in her face. We knew we were going to face,
Speaker 4: you know, a major surgery when she was twenty, and
Speaker 4: we did. We moved up to it was a year ago.
Speaker 4: Last June was a year and a half ago. I
Speaker 4: got a place in Santa Barbara close to her surgeon.
Speaker 4: I guess I'm talking about it a lot because it
Speaker 4: was kind of traumatic. But anyway, so she had this
Speaker 4: life change and surgery and I realized, oh, there's space,
Speaker 4: you know, because you never stopped parenting. But as far
Speaker 4: as like getting my kid in college, getting Livy to
Speaker 4: her final point, physically correcting some stuff that she had
Speaker 4: been born with. You know, I felt like, okay, okay,
Speaker 4: they're they're they're really on their feet. And I examined, well,
Speaker 4: how much do I need to be needed? And I thought, no,
Speaker 4: this is time. I mean, I've really my kids, just
Speaker 4: see my faith in them, so I don't need to
Speaker 4: stir up any you know, situations where oh and then
Speaker 4: they need me.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: It was really about freeing. And what started to surge
Speaker 4: up in me was my creative need, you know. I mean,
Speaker 4: that's that's what started me on my trajectory when I
Speaker 4: left home at seventeen, you know, to express, you know,
Speaker 4: whether it's painting or singing or acting whatever. It is,
Speaker 4: not dancing now, I'm allows a dancer, but my niece
Speaker 4: Courtney's an excellent dancer. She stars in river Dance. Anyway. Anyway,
Speaker 4: So what happened was I was sitting there in this
Speaker 4: this little house in Santa Barbara's beautiful day, and I
Speaker 4: started to think about this idea of manifesting. You know
Speaker 4: that when you really center yourself and you think of
Speaker 4: of you know, what your wants and needs are. When
Speaker 4: you are really aware of that, and for me it
Speaker 4: was my creative need. It does kind of calibrate just
Speaker 4: what you do. And I believe this. I think it
Speaker 4: brings things to you when you're really in your core,
Speaker 4: really truly who you are. It sends out a kind
Speaker 4: of resonance. I believe this, and that's based on a fact.
Speaker 4: Do either of you play the piano.
Speaker 3: My whole family does.
Speaker 1: I did it a little as a child, but I
Speaker 1: you know, did you have.
Speaker 4: A baby grand or a grand piano?
Speaker 3: My mom had a grand piano.
Speaker 4: All right? Then you know what a sustain pedal is.
Speaker 4: That's a pedal on a piano that when you press
Speaker 4: it down, it lifts the felts off the strings so
Speaker 4: they resonate. If you press the sustained pedal down and
Speaker 4: you lift the top of the piano and you go
Speaker 4: into the piano strings the corresponding a note, that string
Speaker 4: that holds that note will reverberate. It's called sympathetic resonance.
Speaker 4: I think sympathetic resonance and that's a fact of life
Speaker 4: that if you sing a certain frequency into a piano,
Speaker 4: it will make that string reverberate. And I think that
Speaker 4: I kind of this is my thing. I think that
Speaker 4: applies to life, that if you are centered in yourself
Speaker 4: with what you truly need, not what you think you need,
Speaker 4: you know intellectually, but if you really really get to
Speaker 4: the core of that, it sets off something and it
Speaker 4: draws people in, like singing a note incurs a sympathetic
Speaker 4: resonance from a piano. And so what happened was my friends.
Speaker 4: A friend of mine called me up and who I'd
Speaker 4: worked with before when she was like working your way
Speaker 4: up as a producer. She said, I'm producing a TV
Speaker 4: show for CBS. I have a great role for you.
Speaker 4: I'm going to offer it to you. Boom. Now did
Speaker 4: the pilot. It got picked up. Now I have a
Speaker 4: recurring role on a CBS show that premieres in the
Speaker 4: spring called True Lives. Norberto Barbara was in that group
Speaker 4: the following that was a fall Robert Schwartzman, Tony Kay, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: They heard the vibrations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't like I was calling him saying, hey,
Speaker 4: do you want you know, can you give me a
Speaker 4: job or anything? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you weren't like, hey, I'm back on the scene. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just a headset.
Speaker 4: It's just a mindset.
Speaker 2: I think I have another thing I want to ask
Speaker 2: you about the Simpsons.
Speaker 3: I'm a huge Simpsons head.
Speaker 2: I love Lurline Lumpkin, and I can't believe it's you, Okay.
Speaker 4: Frank Zappa was a very good friend of mine, as
Speaker 4: was his wife and his children. Duesel to this day,
Speaker 4: Deweesel's a very close friend. Anyway, Frank was using a
Speaker 4: sink clip toward the end of his life, and it
Speaker 4: was a It was a machine that like you could
Speaker 4: program with notes, you could get sound sources like somebody
Speaker 4: could burp, and you could splay it out in a scale. Anyway,
Speaker 4: he wanted to record my voice and for some and
Speaker 4: I was dating this guy and for some reason, I
Speaker 4: was wearing a cheerleading outfit that I'd gotten at La
Speaker 4: Rag I think. Anyway, so I took this guy that
Speaker 4: was with over to Frank's studio and also the guy
Speaker 4: was with was really drunk. But Matt Grunning was there.
Speaker 4: Oh so we never got around to meet oohing into
Speaker 4: his cinclavier, but we had this really nice get together
Speaker 4: night and I met Matt and a few weeks later
Speaker 4: I got this offer to play LiLine Lumpkin, the singing
Speaker 4: waitress from Spittle County, and I just sat right down
Speaker 4: at my piano. I called my brother Jeff, I said
Speaker 4: get over here. We sat right down at my piano
Speaker 4: and I wrote, well, the bases were empty on the
Speaker 4: and of my heart when the coach called me up
Speaker 4: to the plate, So I wrote, finally bagged me a
Speaker 4: homer And then I sent it into them. They liked it,
Speaker 4: and so we used it in the show. And then
Speaker 4: because also you know, sometimes you don't get all the
Speaker 4: contracts signed before you actually complete something. And so then
Speaker 4: I got this contract to sign from Fox, and it
Speaker 4: said that they would own that song, that they would
Speaker 4: own the publishing. And I had a publishing company because
Speaker 4: my brother and I had this little secret company where
Speaker 4: we would do soundalikes for soundtracks for people in television
Speaker 4: that couldn't afford to buy the original. We'd like, wow,
Speaker 4: you'd crank it out. So anyway, it said you got
Speaker 4: to do this and this and this and and I
Speaker 4: think I even had a direct conversation, or it was
Speaker 4: through my age or something, but I said, even Randy
Speaker 4: Newman gave us a song, Fox has to own this.
Speaker 4: And I just never signed it. I just never signed
Speaker 4: it because I was thinking, if it's oh beeracratic, that
Speaker 4: there are all these layers of stuff, and most actors,
Speaker 4: I've always read every single word in a contract my
Speaker 4: whole life, out of curiosity and also because you know
Speaker 4: my life. But it would have been such an easy
Speaker 4: thing to sign. If I hadn't ever read that, you know,
Speaker 4: it'd be like yes, yesessyes. And just by not signing that,
Speaker 4: I guess it fell through the cracks because I to
Speaker 4: this day I get, you know, residuals from the performance
Speaker 4: and also from the publishing.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that makes me so happy. I know.
Speaker 2: I didn't know you wrote that. That's amazing and amazing,
Speaker 2: that's amazing. Do you have the action figure of her?
Speaker 4: I do, Okay, I have a couple of action figures.
Speaker 4: I have one that's set in a bowling alley and
Speaker 4: then another one that's set somewhere else amazing. There's one
Speaker 4: box that came out that's a bowling alley. I don't
Speaker 4: have merchandising now.
Speaker 1: So you brought up vacation before we're talking to you
Speaker 1: now in the holiday season, what happens when like every
Speaker 1: year Christmas rolls around that movie is like huge in
Speaker 1: my house.
Speaker 3: It's like a class family business classic, like.
Speaker 4: Walking around in the most beautiful world you can imagine.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, does it annoy you that?
Speaker 3: Like it comes back around every year? You love it?
Speaker 4: It's so beautiful because by the way it's built. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it didn't start out like that the first one. By
Speaker 4: the way, the first one was r rated and was
Speaker 4: but everybody identified with it instead. But I mean there's
Speaker 4: some vision as a satire, but anyway, it just keeps
Speaker 4: growing and growing and growing. And what I find is
Speaker 4: that the people who like Christmas Vacation and who have
Speaker 4: it as part of their lives, they're family people. They're
Speaker 4: nice people. They're not mean spirited, they're lovely. So to
Speaker 4: get that kind of love really, you know, that kind
Speaker 4: of appreciation. I do find that the real hardcore Christmas
Speaker 4: Vacation fans don't want to know about anything else I've done.
Speaker 4: And I've got this series coming out and I'm a
Speaker 4: badass and by the night that's nice. You know that
Speaker 4: dress that you wore, that green my wife is a
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. It's not like it's a
Speaker 4: close set, but it's very specific and around this time
Speaker 4: of years. It's just a lovely thing because it's so
Speaker 4: much a part of a certain certain strata of our culture.
Speaker 4: There's a certain grouping of people, but they really like
Speaker 4: it and it means a lot to them, And it
Speaker 4: feels so great to feel that appreciation. Like I had
Speaker 4: anything to do with it. You know. It's like you
Speaker 4: look at that movie, you take what you want and
Speaker 4: it does something to you. I just showed up and
Speaker 4: did the thing. But the character, by the way I
Speaker 4: did bas on my mother. I did based on the
Speaker 4: character of my mother because I was a wild job.
Speaker 4: I left them at seventeen. I lived on communes. I
Speaker 4: was saying, my rol bands. I was not that person. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know. But it was a chance to pay tribute
Speaker 4: to my mother, who was devoted to my father. I
Speaker 4: grew up witnessing a great love affair, so I had
Speaker 4: to pass it along to her.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It also just introduced me to so many people like you,
Speaker 1: Chevy Chase, Julia, Louis Dreyfus, Randy Quaid, I mean, Juliette Lewis.
Speaker 3: Like all these, I know, huge.
Speaker 1: People that I didn't know who anybody was when I
Speaker 1: first watched it.
Speaker 4: You know, like you know what I was. I was
Speaker 4: in Yeah, well nobody else did either. But I was
Speaker 4: in Pittsburgh doing this autograph thing with Chevy and the
Speaker 4: woman who was helping me from the convention, the best, Antoinette,
Speaker 4: the Best, she invited me to. I got stuck there
Speaker 4: and so I didn't leave on Sunday. But on Sunday night,
Speaker 4: she and her sister had they have a party where
Speaker 4: people dress up as characters. Oh my gosh, and her
Speaker 4: sister and her sister's friend they wore those those jogging suits,
Speaker 4: those like aluminum foil looking jogging suit. I was almost
Speaker 4: gonna go and say I was dressed up as Zellen Griswold,
Speaker 4: but I couldn't. I had to wake up at like
Speaker 4: six in the morning to go to the airplane.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, we could literally talk about your career forever,
Speaker 1: but let's circle back to SVU.
Speaker 4: Really cut that stuff out. You can cut it out.
Speaker 2: No, we would never cut it. We would never We
Speaker 2: want to know it all that was all gold.
Speaker 1: But so, I mean, do you have like memories of SVU,
Speaker 1: like you and Richard Belzer, you and Marushka like you know,
Speaker 1: specific like any little stories or anything.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I gotta tell you about me. Let me
Speaker 4: get it up on IMDb side. Remember the name of
Speaker 4: the one person I'm thinking of. Anyway, It just all
Speaker 4: good stuff. Iced tea was great. When I went in
Speaker 4: to do looping, he had cocoa with him. Yeah, she's
Speaker 4: the sweetest person in the world. But Richard Belzer, I
Speaker 4: was a big fan of his comedy, right. We were
Speaker 4: in the same kind of click in the early days,
Speaker 4: but didn't really I didn't intersect too much with the
Speaker 4: guys who were doing stand up. But Sam Kinnison I knew,
Speaker 4: and Chevy was you know, they knew about him in
Speaker 4: the stand up world and stuff. So there were a
Speaker 4: little bit of overlaps. But I was something it was
Speaker 4: the hottest Wow. Well yeah, so that was wealth real
Speaker 4: and met his wife and but Mariska, you know, yeah,
Speaker 4: I was so moved by her that I wrote her
Speaker 4: a letter like I wrote her like basically a fan
Speaker 4: letter when I left here, you know, because really and
Speaker 4: the director and everybody, even the wardrobe people. I can't
Speaker 4: I can't even describe it. It's like I don't know
Speaker 4: what the equivalent would be. Just think of go that
Speaker 4: you're invited over to someone's house or everybody there is
Speaker 4: a genius and they're brilliant and they love what they
Speaker 4: do and they're happy to see you. That's you know,
Speaker 4: Lawn or SVU.
Speaker 3: Do your kids are they? Did they have like the
Speaker 3: bug for the business or what?
Speaker 4: My daughter is a live actor in an escape room, Oh.
Speaker 3: My gosh, amazing.
Speaker 4: In the best escape room in the Los Angeles area.
Speaker 4: It's in Silmar. It's called the Basement and there's a
Speaker 4: whole backstory. It's horrifying. It gave me the creeps. But
Speaker 4: I'm going back on Sunday because niece. I have my
Speaker 4: son and my niece in my house, my nieces living
Speaker 4: with me. My son kind of got booted back here
Speaker 4: from his apartment with the COVID thing, but once they
Speaker 4: stop the online classes, he'll be back in his apartment anyway.
Speaker 4: So I got a house full of I got my
Speaker 4: two nieces are here, Courtney who's here all the time,
Speaker 4: and Katie just came in. So we're going to go
Speaker 4: out and go to the escape room. But it's got
Speaker 4: a backstory where these horrible people killed and imprisoned kids,
Speaker 4: and one was a cannibal, and so Livy is like
Speaker 4: in one room, she's a blind and death made and
Speaker 4: you know, has blood dripping out of her eyes and stuff.
Speaker 4: Now of course you can see, but you know she
Speaker 4: gives prompts when the people get lost.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's deep into it. She's a live actor. And
Speaker 4: Alan I went and we were like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: this is like the greatest ser you know, and you know,
Speaker 4: because it's interactive. And my son Angel, from the age
Speaker 4: of fifteen, he's was drawn to video games and he said,
Speaker 4: at a very early age, said the art form of
Speaker 4: the twenty first century. So he's a video game developer
Speaker 4: and he's developing a game right now.
Speaker 3: Oh cool.
Speaker 1: Well, wow, Beverly, this was a thrill that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we we're gonna we need to have you back. There's
Speaker 1: too much more to talk about.
Speaker 4: I'm also tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Can you even believe that we just talked to her.
Speaker 2: It's not even hitting me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I am like a huge Christmas vacation fan.
Speaker 1: I like love her so much. I just she was
Speaker 1: so cool. She reminded me of well, I always say,
Speaker 1: she kind of reminded me of when we talked to
Speaker 1: Kathy Moriarty because we talked to her forever and she
Speaker 1: seems like this brassy, like I've been in this business
Speaker 1: a long time. They both kind of sound like they
Speaker 1: smoke SIGs, like you know, I like, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3: I just thought she was so cool.
Speaker 2: So open, like you know, not not any not many
Speaker 2: people that come on our show are like this, but
Speaker 2: it's so much was a star like that. It's like
Speaker 2: pr publicists say this do and say that, oh what's that?
Speaker 2: And she is just so open, so giving, so honest,
Speaker 2: no games, no hiding stuff, Like I just I loved
Speaker 2: everything about her and down to her living room, I
Speaker 2: mean everything like and.
Speaker 1: I was like obsessed with her before I even knew
Speaker 1: that she had kids with al Pacino. And then when
Speaker 1: she was like yeah al and I went to go
Speaker 1: see our daughter at the Escape Room, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: you're what is your life? Beveragelo Like she's amazing, And
Speaker 1: we have we have figured out my sushi for like
Speaker 1: you know, Elliott's stabler. Benson knew that that couldn't have
Speaker 1: been stabler because he's eating sushi. And we figured out
Speaker 1: mine is escape rooms. If you get a tech if
Speaker 1: I ever call Liza and she goes cool I'll be
Speaker 1: at this escape room and I'll call you back in
Speaker 1: a half an hour. I'm like, okay, immediate call to
Speaker 1: nine one one, because that's not happening. That's not real.
Speaker 1: She's been taken and she's under duress.
Speaker 3: Because what was so funny?
Speaker 2: So I was at Kara's house, but Jared was walking
Speaker 2: in the back door. He didn't know I was there yet,
Speaker 2: and so all he saw was a McDonald's coffee on
Speaker 2: the counter, and in his head it was like what
Speaker 2: because not only does Karen not actually go to McDonald's,
Speaker 2: she does not drink coffee. He was like, this, what happened?
Speaker 2: This is pod snatchers or body snatchers. And then Lisa
Speaker 2: just popped out and was like I'm here, I'm here,
Speaker 2: Ah God, And then you know what I mean. Obviously,
Speaker 2: Beverly's great. If you're listening to all of this with
Speaker 2: the tour, Like then we get back from the tour, Rosie.
Speaker 1: As COVID, Well, she's completely asymptomatic. It's crazy. So we're
Speaker 1: just wearing masks in the house. I think I still
Speaker 1: probably have some immunity from when I just had it.
Speaker 1: I think she got it at school because a couple
Speaker 1: kids have had it at school, but just so far,
Speaker 1: my Oscar doesn't have it. We're keeping it. It's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like life is so fucking just punches you in
Speaker 1: the face over and over again, especially with my fucking kids.
Speaker 3: But everything, you know, it's cute.
Speaker 2: Oscar waved to me for the first time on FaceTime
Speaker 2: and it was really cute.
Speaker 3: And Jared taught him.
Speaker 1: If you're a fan of Drag Race, and you know,
Speaker 1: Alaska's catchphrase is hi, like Jared basically taught them how
Speaker 1: to say that. And so now Oscar whenever he's on
Speaker 1: FaceTime with me, he goes hi, and it is really
Speaker 1: sending me. I don't know if we have like a
Speaker 1: full post mortem from this episode.
Speaker 3: But don't shake your don't shave your baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kids cry, and it's actually way better to wait.
Speaker 3: Should we do that on the road?
Speaker 2: Should that be our big surprise at the end we
Speaker 2: do a full shaken baby dance? And so where all
Speaker 2: the lessons we've learned don't have sex with your sister
Speaker 2: or shake your baby.
Speaker 1: I know it's hard to like you to be frustrated
Speaker 1: with like screaming children, It is hard, but like physically
Speaker 1: grabbing them or shaking them is never the answer. It's
Speaker 1: literally unless you're giving them brain damage, it will not work.
Speaker 1: Like shaking a kid will only make them Shaking a kid,
Speaker 1: grabbing a kid, like doing anything physical to a kid,
Speaker 1: it's only gonna make them more hysterical.
Speaker 3: So it's like, don't do it.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: It's really weird.
Speaker 2: Like the encouragement for everyone to have children is so wrong.
Speaker 2: It's like you should be like everyone should be like,
Speaker 2: don't have kids unless you go to therapy, work on
Speaker 2: your anger, have patience. I don't know, it's like we
Speaker 2: just let anyone procreate. It's it's wild. Look, I don't
Speaker 2: shake your baby. I've lost my temper with my kids.
Speaker 2: Trust I have, but I just like I never ever think,
Speaker 2: oh if I shake them, it will quiet them down.
Speaker 2: So you know, you gotta just know how to hand,
Speaker 2: research some ways to commonly deal with with parenting stuff.
Speaker 3: But also I.
Speaker 2: Think you should drop to your knees in public and scream,
Speaker 2: Like that would make more sense to me then.
Speaker 1: But also for this lady in this episode, like if
Speaker 1: you're fucking a guy who can't handle it, if you
Speaker 1: go to your daughter's room for five minutes and just
Speaker 1: calm her down and put her back to bed. I
Speaker 1: don't even care. Like, first of all, he's cheating on
Speaker 1: his wife with you. This is not the guy worth
Speaker 1: killing your kid over in this episode, Jesus. But I
Speaker 1: know she just wanted to get laid after she's a
Speaker 1: widow and all that, but come on, come on, lady,
Speaker 1: but she is serving her time. And I think also
Speaker 1: the bottom line is get yourself a lawyer like Rebecca
Speaker 1: Beltis who talks about hypophagiosis or whatever and gets you
Speaker 1: off based on a completely wack a doo untestable theory.
Speaker 3: I know, what an a what an actress? What a role?
Speaker 2: What a what a blessing? And you know, I'm glad
Speaker 2: the baby's an actress. Yeah, not a real baby.
Speaker 1: But speaking of advice and how you can you know,
Speaker 1: work with your kids or whatever, let's get into what
Speaker 1: would Sister Peg do. That's our weekly segment where we
Speaker 1: give you guys a resource, a link, a book, a
Speaker 1: podcast episode, something that can help you learn more about
Speaker 1: what we talked about. In today's episode. We wanted to
Speaker 1: direct you guys today to childhelp dot Org that addresses
Speaker 1: the symptoms and causes of shaking baby on the article
Speaker 1: that we're posting, as well as advice for stressed out
Speaker 1: parents and caregivers, like if you're constantly feeling stressed.
Speaker 3: With your kids, I totally get that.
Speaker 1: Check out this article see if you can get some
Speaker 1: advice on like ways to walk away, ways to take
Speaker 1: a break, recenter yourself and not get too upset. Child
Speaker 1: Help is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the prevention and
Speaker 1: treatment of child abuse, and check out their website to
Speaker 1: find preventative measures against some of the causes of shaking
Speaker 1: baby syndrome as well.
Speaker 3: And that's again childhelp dot Org.
Speaker 1: And that will as always be posted as a story
Speaker 1: on our Instagram the day of the show and then
Speaker 1: we'll be saved forever in a WWSPD highlight, which now
Speaker 1: is WWSPD two because we've already surpassed our one hundred
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 3: What would sister peg dos?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's amazing. I didn't put that together, but
Speaker 2: of course we have. Next week's episode will be Contrapasso
Speaker 2: Season nineteen, episode three. We got some Peacock action, some
Speaker 2: Hulu action. Get your sticks ready all over the world.
Speaker 2: We're obsessed with all of you, and we'll see you
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 5: Thanks bye, guys.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
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Speaker 2: Ga com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed
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Speaker 2: follow us personally at Karaklank and.
Speaker 3: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun