1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: Final hour of the Wednesday edition of the program. I'm 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: down in Key West, Florida. Will be with you Thursday 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: and Friday. Buck is out for the holiday. We'll be 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: back after the first of the year. We've been talking 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: a lot about this one point seven trillion dollar omnibus bill. 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: Great guest in the first couple of hours, including Senator 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Rick Scott of Florida, and then we talked about the 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: border disaster with Mark Morgan, former Acting Commissioner of Customs 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: and Border with Trump. Encourage you to go download the 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: first and second hour of the program if we could. 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to clear out all of the phone calls 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: right now because I bet many of you are going 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: to want to react to the conversation that we are 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: about to have. And that conversation is about something that I, 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: frankly have been obsessed with, and I know many of 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: you have as well. It is the quadruple murder, still 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: unsolved now into I believe a sixth week since this 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: happened at the University of Idaho. We are joined now 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: by Joseph Scott Morgan, Distinguished Scholar of Applied Forensics in Jacksonville, Alabama, 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: former Senior investigator with the Fulton County Medical Examiner's Office 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, host of the Bodybags podcast on iHeart going 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: to ask you to do is if you are hearing 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: questions that come to mind as we are having this conversation. 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to monitor Twitter, so if you can 27 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: tweet me at Clay Travis. If you do not hear 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: me asking questions that you find to be particularly unique 29 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: or useful, here, send me questions and I will ask 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: a few of those as well. Again at Clay Travis 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: right now on Twitter, and we bring in Joseph Scott Morgan. Okay, 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: you were at Fulton County Medical Examiner Office. I want 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: to ask you this question just to start. We know 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: that someone walked into this home with armed it appears 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: only with a knife, stabbed for people to death, walked 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: back out of that home. We don't know where the 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: weapon is, we don't know who did it. Have you 38 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 1: ever seen a case like this in your life as 39 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: a forensic investigator. No, I haven't, Clay, and thanks for 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: having me today. I've worked Before I was in Atlanta. 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: I was with the Jefferson Parish Corners office in New Orleans. 42 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: I've worked into pretty good big cities, I mean Atlanta 43 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: and New Orleans, and not cities where murder is uncommon. 44 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: The reason why I'm starting with that question is to 45 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: walk in armed only with a knife. I just want 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: to kind of start here because I having this conversation 47 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: with my wife last night, because she's also been following 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: this case. To me, what stands out about that decision 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: is this is someone First of all, that walking into 50 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: a strange person's house is something that most people wouldn't 51 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: do right, but to do it to me, the more 52 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: I think about this armed only with a knife, when 53 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: you know there are multiple people inside of that home, 54 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: it seems like someone who is very comfortable with what 55 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: they can do with that knife. And that's why I 56 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: wanted to start with that question. Because even the method, 57 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: quadruple murders aren't common, thankfully that often in general, but 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: quadruple stabbings of what appears to be totally innocent college kids, 59 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: there's almost no precedent for stories like these. No, there's not. 60 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: And you know you can search as much as you want. 61 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: You're not going to find quadruple stabbings most of the time, 62 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: particularly as they're isolated in one location, one structure like this, 63 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: essentially in two different bedroom rooms obviously on separate floors. 64 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: But you know, the supposition that the that's being put 65 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: forward that this perpetrator is a stranger perhaps, and I 66 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: know that, you know, it makes for it's titillating to 67 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: hear that because people think about some stranger coming out 68 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: of the dark. I'm not buying into that. I think 69 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: that more than likely this individual obviously, as you stated, 70 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: I knew who was living there and probably knew of 71 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: the structure. They may have been inside of this dwelling. 72 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: It's an odd dwelling clay, to say the very least. 73 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's multiple floors, three floors, two entrances, 74 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: and both entrances one is on the lower ground level 75 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: where the parking pad is, and then you go up 76 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: to the second story and there's another external ground level entry, 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: and then it's got this kind of switchback staircase. And 78 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: the house has been added onto over the recent you know, 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: recent years, So it's it's an oddly shaped environment. It's 80 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: something in my opinion at least the individual would have 81 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: had to have been familiar within Keep in mind, one 82 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: thing that keeps being pushed forward over and over and 83 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: over and over again is that this location was a 84 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: gathering spot for college students off campus. It has been 85 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: termed as a party house. So when you hear all 86 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: of that, the other thing here is this doesn't feel 87 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: like a random act of violence. It feels like this 88 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: was targeted in some way. Most people who again walking 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: in with just a knife and then being committing the 90 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: murder of four people walking out with that knife. We 91 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: talked to Nancy Grace a few weeks ago, and she said, 92 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: usually this is a violent act. There's DNA left behind 93 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: because a lot of times with a knife you might 94 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: end up cutting yourself. We haven't heard anything about any 95 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: blood that might belong to someone potentially a killer in 96 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: this scenario. Does that suggest to you that this was 97 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: not the first time that someone may have engaged violent 98 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: behavior like this? And also in your experience, does it 99 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: happen very often that somebody suddenly snaps and commits a 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: violent act like this, or they're typically many other violent 101 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: acts that would have occurred before someone engages in behavior 102 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, I think that they have a mindset 103 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: toward violence. It's something that they would be very comfortable 104 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: with in this environment. And who knows what the rationale 105 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: was for this if they were you know, focused in 106 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: on these individuals to the point where they were so 107 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: obsessed that the gore didn't bother them. And trust me, 108 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: it trust me in this situation, considering that these two 109 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: pair of individuals, these victims, they're co sleeping. So these attacks, 110 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: if we are to believe what we're hearing at this point, 111 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: would have taken place in individual beds. So you have 112 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: two people sleeping in one bed. The perpetrator would have 113 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: been covered in blood. So and they're leaving behind all 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: kinds of trace evidence. But it's not surprised and we 115 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: don't know that yet. This is very from a forensic 116 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: science standpoint, from a trace evidence standpoint, this is very 117 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: very dense material. This is not something that can essentially 118 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: be turned around in a couple of days and you're 119 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: going to have, you know, evidence that's just going to say, hey, 120 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: here's here's the perpetrator. The reality is this, if it 121 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: is co mingled, and I'm talking about the blood samples, 122 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: and yeah, we could and we could have an unknown 123 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: that could be tied back to a perpetrator. All of 124 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: this is going to have to be unspooled in order 125 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: to create a profile, a biological profile on the individual. 126 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: And this takes time, not to mention everybody else that's 127 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: passed through this house that's left behind things like touch DNA. 128 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: I mean, all of us that have been college students 129 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: in an undergraduate situation, have been to an off campus 130 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: location for parties and whatnot. Lots of DNA is left 131 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: behind in those environments. So they're having to make their 132 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: way through all of this at the laboratory given everything 133 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: that has come back from the scene, based on your experience, 134 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: as you said, in New Orleans and Atlanta, and we're 135 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: talking to Joseph Scott Morgan who has Bodybags, a iHeart 136 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: podcast that you guys can all go check out. Would 137 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: it stun you if the killer didn't leave behind some 138 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: DNA evidence. No, I think that it would be impossible 139 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: for them not to particularly and let me give you 140 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: the measure of that clay as we're talking about in 141 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: current context. Years ago, I would say, yes, it's possible 142 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: that they might not have been able to pick up 143 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: on stuff but the tests that are being run nowadays 144 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: are so very sensitive. And when I say touch DNA, 145 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm talking about things like sluffing desk in cells, those things, 146 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: those little particular things that are left behind in a space. 147 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this attack is very very intimate. 148 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: You know, you think about a multiple shooting case where 149 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: you have some distance between the target and the perpetrator. 150 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: That's not what happened. You have an individual that probably 151 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: crawled into the bed. With these individuals, There's a lot 152 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: of touching that's going on, and plus the driving of 153 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: this knife into these bodies. This is a very intimate circumstance. 154 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: So even if the individual did not cut themselves, there's 155 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: a high probability that they left some trace evidence behind. 156 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: And keep in mind this, This is fascinating to me 157 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: when somebody engages in this kind of heinous act, this 158 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: is butchery. By the time they get to the fourth person, 159 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: the fourth victim, they're going to be profusely sweating. This 160 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: will completely lead to exhaustion. It would not surprise me 161 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: to learn that the individual had actually left behind droplets 162 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: of sweat on the last victim. Their adrenaline is going 163 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: to be pumping they'll be at such a level of 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: excitement and in this just trying to keep themselves going, 165 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: there's going to be elements left behind that can be 166 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: traced back to a perpetrator. I think when you hear 167 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: all this and talking about being able to stab four 168 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: people to death, including one basically grown man, does that 169 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: suggest to you that this is a big, strong man 170 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: that it would be unlikely that generally speaking, a woman 171 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: would be capable of executing these crimes. And the other 172 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: part of this is they all died in most stabbings. 173 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: And again I'm not an expert on stabbing, but it 174 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: seems like there are a lot of people who survive 175 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: because it's hard to know exactly where the stabs are going. 176 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Does this suggest to you that 177 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: this person, given the fact that they walked in with 178 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: a knife, had a lot of experience with stabbing potentially, 179 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: which is rare. Right, even people out there listening to 180 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: us right now who might sometimes have a knife with 181 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: them for protection. Most people have never actually practiced, I 182 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: think Buck said and special when the CIA, they had 183 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: some limited training, but most people haven't actually practiced ever 184 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: stabbing someone. What does that suggest to you that all 185 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: four of these people were killed, and again that it 186 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: was four different people and only armed theoretically with a knife. 187 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: To your point about the difference between a gun and 188 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: a knife, I mean, going after four people with only 189 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: a knife, I would think a lot of people, even 190 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: if they had violent intentions, would not be comfortable doing 191 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: that unless they had been trained. Yeah, and that is 192 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: key here. And remember the Corners stated in one interview 193 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: that she did give that the injuries, the injuries, the 194 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: fatal injuries were limited to the chest. She had talked 195 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: about that specifically. I'm not talking about what the appearance 196 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: have said or anything. I'm talking about the interview that 197 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: the coroner gave, and she said that there was at 198 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: least one fatal wound to the chest area on these victims. Now, 199 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: there were some defensive wounds. That gives me an idea 200 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: that they hung around until they knew that each individual 201 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: was finished off. They were purposed. They were purposed in 202 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: this clay in order to make sure that no one survived, 203 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: no one was going to be able to identify them. 204 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: I think the one big ask that people have here, 205 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: and you know they're kind of scratching their heads, is 206 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: that in the lower portion of this home. There were 207 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: two people that were left alive in a separate living 208 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: area in their own bedrooms, and so I think that 209 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: that again is something and I toyed with the idea 210 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: was this person actually hiding in the home when both 211 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: of these parties arrived later in the evening. I want 212 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: to come back because I'm getting so many questions out there. Also, 213 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: you have time to stay with us and allow me 214 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: to read some of these questions that I'm getting during 215 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: the commercial break and bring you in to answer some 216 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: of them. Sure, Clay, as long as you need, Okay, 217 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: So Joseph Scott Morgan, formerly of forensics in both New 218 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: Orleans and Atlanta, is going to stay with us. Hit 219 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: me with your questions during this commercial break. I will 220 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: bring those questions that some of you may have back. 221 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: You can also load up the phone lines eight hundred 222 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: two two eight eight two, and I will make sure 223 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: that we get as much information here because I know 224 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: many of you, based on prior conversations, Buck and I 225 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: have had have many questions about this case as well. 226 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: In the meantime, our friends at Hillsdale College have certainly 227 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: found the holiday spirit. They wish you and yours, a happy, 228 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: blessed Christmas and a healthy and prosperous New Year. They 229 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: also want to pass along their sincere thanks to you 230 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: for your kindness toward to college. Since Hillsdale's finding and 231 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: founding in eighteen forty four, it's taught its students, by 232 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: precept and example the teachings and practices of the Christian Faith. 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: The college continues this mission in its classrooms in nationwide 234 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: through its educational outreach efforts. They've prepared a special video 235 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: featuring their Sacred Music Choir singing Oh Little Town of 236 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: Bethlehem in their christ Chapel at the heart of the campus. 237 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: When you visit Hillsdale dot edu slash Christmas, you can 238 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: see in here the choir and view many other free 239 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: resources to help you celebrate the season. It'll be uplifting 240 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: and inspiring. The website again Hillsdale dot edu slash Christmas, 241 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: Speaking Truth and having Fun. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton 242 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Joseph Scott Morgan, 243 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: former forensic expert in both Atlanta and New Orleans, discussing 244 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: the quadruple murder in Idaho. I'm going to hit you 245 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: with a bunch of questions, really rapidly if I can, 246 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: because you guys are deluging me with questions. A lot 247 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: of people want to know there was a dog there. 248 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: What does it suggest that the dog was left unharmed 249 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: to you with anything? Well, I think the first thing 250 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: from Jump Street is probably the idea that the dog 251 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: had been placed somewhere, and they have alluded to that, 252 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: they being the police. They've stated that the dog was 253 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: in a separate room. The curious thing is this, how 254 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: did the dog not alert to the sound of screaming? 255 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: Yeacause this is obviously one of the most painful ways 256 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: to die. While wasn't marking hurt? Well, maybe no one 257 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: was awake to hear it, or maybe it couldn't be 258 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: heard downstairs. One other thing, that dog, if it is 259 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: owned by one of the victims and it had access 260 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: to the body, the dog would be evidence rich I'll 261 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: put it that way. I'll put it that way. How 262 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: long would it take in your experience to kill four 263 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: people with a knife like this? A lot of that 264 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: is anatomically dependent, and if there is a strike to 265 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: a specific organ, primarily the heart, pretty suddenly. However, if 266 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: these were glancing blows that may have penetrated along could 267 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: have taken a bit longer, And a lot of it 268 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: is depended upon how much of a fight there was, 269 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: and we don't know a lot about that at this time. 270 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: But with a knife, it's not going to be as 271 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: quick as say, for instance, as somebody was shot in 272 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: the head, for instance, there would be an awareness here, 273 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: so it takes a few minutes. Also, if there was 274 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: a fight, we have a suggestion of defensive wounds. The 275 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: idea would be, and I hate to say this, but 276 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: if you're out there, you want to claw as much 277 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: as possible if you potentially are being killed, because you 278 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: get the face you get. We don't know what this 279 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: person was wearing, but if you can get any of 280 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: their DNA basically on your fingers, even if you die, 281 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: you could be a witness right to who killed you. 282 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: It's an awful thing to talk about, but that in 283 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: a defensive struggle, any ability to claw or create or 284 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: a record that could be your last opportunity to talk 285 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: even after your death. Yeah, and that is essential. It's 286 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: a good point because most people will focus in this 287 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: particular case. I've heard a lot of banter about the 288 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: defensive injuries of the victims, and that is important obviously, 289 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: but this perpetrator that's running around out there, and this 290 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: is a big, big clue if they in fact were 291 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: attacked or the victims were attempting to defend themselves, you 292 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: would look for scratches on the face, the neck, maybe 293 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: even the eyes, and that would have had that would 294 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: have taken a few days to have healed. I think 295 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: by now we're so far down range, as you mentioned, Clay, 296 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: we're you know, into the sixth week now. But yeah, 297 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: and what's left behind is going to be contained underneath 298 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: those fingernails and on the palms of the hams. Perhaps. 299 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: How long you talked about the forensic aspect of trying 300 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: to get the DNA, and you just mentioned we're into 301 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: the sixth week. How long would it take in your 302 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: experience to be able to have a full forensic sweep 303 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: of this crime scene. I think that you know, we're 304 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: only thinking about DNA, but we have to also think 305 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: about other things at the scene, the interpretation of the 306 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: blood stain, blood stains that are there. They're also putting 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: together probably a trace evidence packet that's going to include 308 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: fiber evidence, all those sorts of things, not to mention 309 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: all the pathological stuff that took place at the autopsy. 310 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: Would that those examinations which should be complete by now. 311 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: And I take I take exception to one thing that 312 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: the coroner had mentioned about to psychology where it will 313 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: you save that? Can you come back one more segment 314 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: with us. I gotta go to break here, but I 315 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: want to let you answer problem. And I'm also gonna 316 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: let everybody who's calling in will line you up and 317 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: let you ask your questions. We're getting so deluged. I 318 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: want to make sure we hit all this gun owners. 319 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: You know expensive AMMO has become Do you want to 320 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: take care and make sure that you are able to 321 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: get the best possible firearm training. That's mantis X. 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Travis send buck Sexton on the 332 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome Back in Play Travis buck Sexton Show. We are 333 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: talking with Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert formerly of Atlanta 334 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: and New Orleans about the quadruple murder in Idaho into 335 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: a sixth week, still unclear who or how many perpetrators 336 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: there might be in this case. Also, Joseph Scott Morgan 337 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 1: has a book, Blood Beneath my Feet, The Journey of 338 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: a Southern death Investigator. I'm gonna get to some of 339 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: your calls. I am reading all of your messages. You 340 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: guys have flooded me with dms, which are not negative 341 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: comments from left wingers telling me to kill myself. They 342 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: are actually incredibly great questions that you guys are asking. Also, 343 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: a lot of VIP emails are rolling in, so I 344 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: want to hit several of these that many people are asking. 345 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: There are three blondes, Joseph, and I appreciate you spending 346 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: the time with us. Then I'm gonna get to some 347 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: of your calls. Three blonde girls who are the victims here? 348 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: Do we think one of them might have been a target. 349 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: And when it's two or three o'clock, four o'clock in 350 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: the morning, it's hard to know necessarily which of those 351 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: girls is which, and so all of them get killed. 352 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: Have you thought anything about that, because in a dark environment, 353 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: the pictures that I've seen of these girls, it might 354 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: be very difficult to tell which one is which. Yeah, 355 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons, and I'm glad that the 356 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: caller brought this up. This is one of the reasons 357 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: that I have toyed with the idea that the individual 358 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: was familiar with the environment and had been there before, 359 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: had visited there before. And also one thing, that's two 360 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: things here, and I really want to emphasize this. Two 361 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: things that will kind of make your skin crawl. The 362 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: fact that there's that big panel of glass windows on 363 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: the back, including a slider that if the lights are 364 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: on at night, you can stand in a tree line 365 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: not be seen and see everything that goes on in there. Finally, 366 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: and probably the most horrible is there was a TikTok 367 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: video that these young girls, young women made of them 368 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: imitating one another inside of their space, inside of the 369 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: home where this took place, and for a moment you 370 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: catch a glimpse into their lives, You catch a glimpse 371 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: of their personalities, of their descriptions, what they look like. 372 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: And that didn't just go out to the people at 373 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: the University of Idaho. It didn't just go out to 374 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: the people in Idaho. Clay that went worldwide. Anybody that 375 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: wanted to take a look into their lives at that 376 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: moment time could see everything on TikTok. They could see 377 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: the staircases, that could see the common space where the 378 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: kitchen was, they could see those big windows. Everything in 379 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: that environment was visible at least for a second to 380 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: everybody out there viewing. Do you think there could have 381 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: been multiple perpetrators? This is one of the most common 382 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: questions that we're getting as opposed to one person. Would 383 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: it surprise you if there was more than one person here, No, 384 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: it would not surprise me. However, I think that you know, 385 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: it's it's difficult for one person to keep a secret. 386 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: If you've got two that are out there, how is 387 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: one of them going to keep their mouth shut? And 388 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: also you double the probability that you're going to leave 389 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: evidence behind. Now, I think from a control standpoint, you're 390 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: trying to perpetrate multiple homicide here. And you know, when 391 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: you think about how quiet things were, allegedly there may 392 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: have been one scream that was heard that had been 393 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: reported that certainly within the realm of possibility. I wouldn't 394 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: dismiss anything at this point. I mean nothing. I'm not 395 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: striking anybody off the list at this point, and I'm 396 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: not dismissing any leads at this point. Everything must be 397 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: explored to exhaustion. A lot of people wonder how on 398 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: the first floor they didn't hear the screaming, they weren't 399 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: aware of the murders that went on, and so that's 400 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: a big topic. We mentioned the dog, also the toxicology 401 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: on the victims, how drunk they might have been, whether 402 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: they might have been on These are college kids, right, 403 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: they were out. We know they were out, probably drinking 404 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: like many college kids are on a Saturday night. Maybe 405 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: also the first floor as well. They would obviously have 406 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: run toxicology on the victims. How might alcohol and or 407 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: other substances that college kids might use impact the toxicology 408 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: and the investigation here. Well, if you're talking about from 409 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 1: attempting to defend yourself, it can inhibit your ability to 410 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: respond that's for certain. And I want everybody to go 411 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: back and look at the food the food food truck 412 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,959 Speaker 1: video that's floated around out there. One of the female 413 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: victims that's there. You can see she's kind of got 414 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: an unsteady gait as she's walking around. I don't know 415 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: what to read into that, but I think that that 416 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: might be possibly as a result of having imbibed a 417 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: bit that evening. So, no, Doulex, it's going to be 418 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: very important. We can go to calls here just momentarily. 419 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: Want to give you an open opportunity here. What have 420 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: I not asked you? I used to do this when 421 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: I would depose witnesses the lord of my last question. 422 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes you get good answers. What do you wish that 423 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: I had asked you? That you haven't been able to 424 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: tell our audience about the particulars of this case? What 425 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: else is out there? I think the biggest thing right 426 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: now is ask what we can do to support the 427 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: efforts of investigators. Yeah, I think that that's the most 428 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: important thing. I know that sounds kind of ham handed, 429 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: but the reality is this. This is a tough job. 430 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: It's an extensive investigation. That is, like I said, so 431 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: dense in evidence. We have to Patience is the watchword here, 432 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: and don't do anything that's going to impede these people 433 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: in any way whatsoever. If you have information, call it in, 434 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: give it to them. They're begging you for information. They've 435 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: put up lines. They put up you know, phone lines, 436 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: they put up email addresses to send the stuff, to 437 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: submit your tips. But don't get in the way of 438 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: the investigation. I think right now at this point that's 439 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: the most important thing. You are in New Orleans, in 440 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: atlant that's a place where murders occur. The reports are 441 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: there hasn't been a murder in seven years in this 442 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: town Moscow, Idaho, prior to this. How difficult does that 443 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: make it for investigators arriving for the first time on 444 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: this scene. It's truly an unprecedented crime scene for them 445 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: in your experience. How difficult does that make their process 446 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: of beginning this investigation. It makes it very difficult because 447 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,959 Speaker 1: if you're not used to rolling up on a scene 448 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: that is this extensive, and let's face it, this horrific, 449 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: it's a shock to the system and many people they listen. 450 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: It's even a normal reaction for police to say, I 451 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: can't believe what I just saw, particularly that are not 452 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: used to seeing this level of violence, and other people 453 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: will begin to show up. We call him, look you 454 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: lose and they want to come in and take a 455 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: look at the scene. Well, that's a bad problem. You 456 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: don't know who's coming in and out of the door 457 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: before the thing is completely locked down, and you lose 458 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: vital evidence that way. Also, remember there were other friends. 459 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: There were friends of these victims that were called to 460 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: the residents that showed up one by one and we're there, 461 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: so we don't know what impact their presence had in 462 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: the scene as well, was anything changed, with anything altered? 463 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 1: And you know, I go back to I have a 464 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: real problem when them there were articles released from the 465 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: scene because they claimed that they had sentimental value. Clay 466 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: all right, that walked out the door. That stuff is 467 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: gone now for ever and ever. Amen. I had a 468 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: problem with that. We locked down Parkland, or the authorities 469 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: lockdown Parkland for years down there after that shooting. They 470 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: knew who that shooter was and we still don't know 471 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: who did this, but yet things have left the scene 472 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: because they had sentimental value. I have a problem with that. 473 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: I wish they just locked the whole thing down and 474 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: not giving anybody any further access to it until the 475 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: scene can be completed. We see the sink to the 476 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: end and possibly into court. There would be a tremendous 477 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: amount of blood. Is it fair to say for four 478 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: people to be stabbed to death like this, this crime 479 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: scene would have been just so totally suffused drenched in blood. 480 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: Is that accurate? Yes, it would, particularly the focal area 481 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to where the attack took place. I would 482 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: refer to that more than likely, based upon sharp force 483 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: injury cases I worked over the course of my career 484 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: as supersaturated with blood, and the killer or killers would 485 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: have also been saturated in blood. So is this something 486 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: where they basically have to burn all of their clothing 487 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: in order to avoid leaving a trail? I mean any 488 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: vehicle they got into, even a trained assassin would have 489 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: left all sorts of blood evidence in that vehicle as well, right, 490 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: or certainly on a walk. Yeah, And you can have 491 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: transfer evidence, contact evidence, smears. If someone has just blood 492 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: on their on their forearm, you might not You know, 493 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: people don't think about it. When they walk through a door. 494 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: Maybe they'll brush up against the facing of the door. 495 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: That's stuff that we look for. This person would have 496 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: had blood on them. I'm just wondering if there are 497 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: any contact trains first relative to that sort of thing, 498 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: and then their point of leaving the property, were there 499 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: any blood trails leading out? Does any of it progress 500 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: on the ground outside of the residents? Do we have 501 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: any passive dripping like from the tip of the blade 502 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: of a knife, which you'll see if somebody stands in 503 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: one place with a supersaturated instrument in their hand, So 504 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: just kind of passively drop down to the floor and 505 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: we can read things into that and try to get 506 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: an idea as to what happened in that moment. So yeah, 507 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: they would have had certainly trace evidence that was transferred 508 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: from them onto the victims and vice versa as well. 509 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: It's you know, it goes back to Lacard's principle. It's 510 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: over one hundred years old that says, every contact leaves 511 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: a trace. That's our touchstone in forensics, that's what we 512 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: live by, and that holds true in this case. Every 513 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: contact leaves a trace. No matter what you do, where 514 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: you've been, where you're going, you're going to leave something 515 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: of yourself behind. And yet the person would have been 516 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: covered in blood in your experience in Atlanta, New Orleans. 517 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: We're now into a sixth week. What do you think 518 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: the chances are that we capture whoever did this. I 519 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: think that there's still a very high probability because look, 520 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: we've got four victims. That means that you have, just 521 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: based upon the deaths alone, you have four opportunities that 522 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: trace evidence that can be tied back to a potential 523 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: perpetrator was left on each one of those victims. Your chances, 524 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: I think, increase exponentially. It all depends. You know, the 525 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: science is fine. You know, we're going to call the 526 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: boys now at the lab, you know that kind of thing, 527 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: and we can process all of the biological evidence, that 528 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: trace evidence and all that sort of thing. But what 529 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: this is going to come down to, Clay at the 530 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: end of the day, it's going to be good old 531 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: fashioned shoe letter getting out there, knocking on doors, having interviews. 532 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: And here's one of the weird things about this case. 533 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: One of the odd things is that you know, I'm 534 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: a college professor, and so I understand that a college 535 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: environment is a transient environment because the people that go 536 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: to school there don't live there full time when people 537 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: bolted after that that word went out that this had occurred. 538 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: You know, did you know that? Probably? I think they 539 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: said that less than fifty percent of the student body 540 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: returned after Safgiving break, and some of those kids are 541 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: not coming back. And you know, if you better interviewed anybody, 542 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: an eye to eye interview is the most important thing. 543 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: How much information did those kids take with them that 544 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: left the campus that the police are never going to 545 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: be able to have a sit down with them face 546 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: to face. And time is whiddling now, you know, the 547 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: freshness of their memories, all that sort of stuff is 548 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: beginning to diminish. They got to get out there, talk 549 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: to these people and keep knocking on doors, is what 550 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: I would say. Last question. And by the way, so 551 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: many people called in. Our staff has been funneling your 552 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: questions to me, so I'm asking everything that people are 553 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: calling in. Do you think the killer is still in 554 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: that vicinity or does it feel to you like someone 555 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: who would have been transient and left the community based 556 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: on the evidence that is out there in public, I 557 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: think that they may have vaulted as well, but I 558 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: think that they had a very strong familiarity with this environment, 559 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: with the environment of the scene, and with this little 560 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: town in Idaho, and this is not a town you 561 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: wind up in by isolation, I mean by accident. It 562 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: is a town that exists in isolation. It sits along 563 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: a major interstate highway. But you just don't show up 564 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: here by accident. This is a place you have to 565 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: be purposed to be. It's a beautiful little college town 566 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: where a lot of people have gone to college over 567 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: the years, and they love it. It's gorgeous up there, 568 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: But you don't wind up there by accident. This person 569 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: knew this place, and they knew it well, and they 570 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: knew it well enough to single out this one house 571 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: that's in this back area off a fraternity row that's 572 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: kind of hidden and sequestered. I don't know that the 573 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: victims were targeted here, Clay. I think that the residents 574 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: probably was. You have to take both of those things 575 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: into consideration when you're trying to solve this Who would 576 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: you tell? Obviously, Joseph Morgan, We're going to share your 577 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: information for people to be able to follow. Who else 578 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: to you is worth following on this case if people 579 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: are super intrigued and want to stay up to date 580 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: on it. I would say probably Brian Inton more than likely. 581 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: He's over News Nation. He's been on top of this. 582 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: He's on the ground day after day after day, every 583 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: single day out there. And probably antinett Levy with long Crime. 584 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: Both of them are doing stellar work kind of reporting 585 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: from the scene. You see them out there. Those are 586 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: the two people I would direct, you know, to get 587 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: to get kind of ground, you know, the information from 588 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: the ground. They're out there, you know, when the cold, 589 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: with their you know, their head gear on and their 590 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: heavy coats and all of that sort of thing. Reporting 591 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: from the same day in and day out. This has 592 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: been outstanding. You are only scheduled to be on with 593 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: us for one segment. We got so much reaction and frankly, 594 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: you can tell by all my questions, I really appreciate 595 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: the time that you are spending with us. He has been. 596 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Distinguished Scholar of Applied Forensics, Jackson in Bille, Alabama. 597 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: Former senior investigator both in New Orleans and in Atlanta, 598 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: host of the Bodybags podcast on iHeart. Thank you so much, sir, 599 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: you bet Clay, and hey, Merry Christmas to you, buddy, 600 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: Merry Christmas to you and your family as well, and 601 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: everybody out there listening. Also want to tell you my 602 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: pillows got incredible offers right now. 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Subscribe to cnd B twenty four seven Welcome 622 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: back in Clay Travis buck Sexton show. Finishing off the show, 623 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: Encourage you if you just heard part of that conversation 624 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan fantastic discussing the awful tragedy four murders 625 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: unsolved at the University of Idaho. I'm gonna take a 626 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: couple of your calls to close out the show here, 627 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: but I appreciate all of the feedback, all the interaction. 628 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,479 Speaker 1: Hopefully I got as many questions as you guys could 629 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: think of to be able to ask our expert there, 630 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: Dane in Columbus, Ohio, what you got for me? Good afternoon. UM. 631 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: I have a fantasy who has a degree and the 632 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: forensic an Apology PhD. And I asked her because she 633 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: has done money work with money in high profile cases, 634 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: and she said, have they checked their that school has 635 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: a four year forensic degree? Has anybody checked there to 636 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: see if this one girl who was supposedly been brutalized 637 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: more than the rest, had any interegotiation with anybody there, 638 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: Because so this person knew how to kill them, knew 639 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: how to dispose of all the DNA, they could come 640 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: in there and been in there dress and their and 641 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: their suit to protect us. Did anybody test the dog 642 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: to see the dog had been giveing a sensitive said 643 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: the dog did not bark because and when they bolted, 644 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: he said, they bolted a lot. Did this person take 645 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: this stuff home? And did they destroy it there? Yees, 646 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: good questions, all very good questions, and I think certainly 647 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: the forensic data as we continue to wait on it. 648 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: David and bay View, Idaho. What you got for me 649 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: to close out the show? I'm going to give you 650 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: some local input. Every time I hear you guys talking 651 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: about this. If you guys did some research on the 652 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: four northernmost counties in northern Idaho over the last thirty years, 653 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: you'd probably be surprised how many murders and missing persons 654 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: there are that are unsolved, and you could look it 655 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: up for yourself. We're small communities, and I don't want 656 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: to disparage the police forces because most of the crimes 657 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: might be a crime of passion or someone shoots somebody 658 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: in a barroom fight. Those are pretty easy, but the 659 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: complex murder cases up here usually don't get solved. The 660 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: missing person cases up here, don't get solved. It's sad, 661 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: but it's not front page news to us that there's 662 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: no resolution to this case like it may be for 663 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: the rest of you, guys. Thank you for the calls, 664 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: thank you for the interaction. Go grab the podcast. Sleet, 665 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.