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Speaker 1: Oh me, Harty's this is our classic episode for this evening.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, did you guys like treasure stories and pirate

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Speaker 1: stories when you were kids? Yeah's heart? What's a hearty?

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Speaker 1: A hardy? I think it's just pirates slaying. If I'm

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Speaker 1: being honest, it means you don't have the scurvy, you're

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Speaker 1: you're a party. Yes, my dear heart or something. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it spelled though. Is it spelled like

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Speaker 1: herty h E A R t y or h A

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Speaker 1: R d ys and boys? Well, Pirates were known for

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Speaker 1: a lot of things, but literacy was not one, So

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Speaker 1: I imagine they wrote it down several different ways.

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Speaker 2: Got it, it'd be time to plunder this classic episode.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, Oh there's a German immigrant. His name

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Speaker 1: John Jacob Astor, the first known multi millionaire in the

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Speaker 1: United States. But how did he get this? Agreed to

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Speaker 1: fortune as we were, I think all surprised to learn

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Speaker 1: the answer may lay in hidden pirate treasure. Depending on

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Speaker 1: who you ask. Caveat caveat asterisk, there are she blows yrs.

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Speaker 1: Let's roll it.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. There's

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Speaker 2: a Noll spaced hole to my left.

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Speaker 1: There's a Noll hole. Indeed, they call me Ben. We

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Speaker 1: are joined as always with our super producer Paul mission

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Speaker 1: controlled decand who has recently been rethinking is Moniker and

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Speaker 1: maybe going with Paul Hollywood in a British accent. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. This is a

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Speaker 1: this is a strange episode for us, and and an

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Speaker 1: interesting story. There's a there are a couple of different

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Speaker 1: conspiratorial myths we run into here, and we also run

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Speaker 1: into the evolution of media and the great game of

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Speaker 1: telephone that we've mentioned in previous previous episodes. But before

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Speaker 1: we begin, Matt, I have to I have to ask you, yes,

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Speaker 1: do you think this summer will be the summer that

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Speaker 1: our hometown burns.

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Speaker 2: Down, that Atlanta burns again.

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Speaker 1: Just from the heat, this time not from interesting warfare?

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Speaker 2: My goodness, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. We went

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Speaker 2: out my family and I went out to the Candler

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Speaker 2: Park Festival on Gosh was that Saturday? Yes, it was Saturday,

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Speaker 2: and just standing outside uncovered was a terrible thing. I

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Speaker 2: would not recommend it to anyone. Find a tree, get

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Speaker 2: underneath it and you'll be okay. The music is still

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Speaker 2: gonna sound great.

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Speaker 1: There we go. That's the spirit. It's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a positive, positive spin on a terrible, terrible thing. I

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Speaker 1: just landed back in town late yesterday night or early

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Speaker 1: this morning, I'm not sure which, and the thing that

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Speaker 1: hit me immediately was the heat. I'm just everyone who

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Speaker 1: lives here enjoys summer and autumn and all the hits,

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Speaker 1: all the all the slow jazz of the seasons until

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Speaker 1: summer comes. This is terrible, This is horrific. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea how hot or cold it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: in your neck of the global woods, folks, but please

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Speaker 1: send us. What do they say on Facebook? Thoughts and

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Speaker 1: prayers or better yet, ice cubes or those Did you

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Speaker 1: ever have those those weird little popsicles that came in

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Speaker 1: the plastic tubes when you were a kid? Yes, or

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Speaker 1: some of those. I'm burning up so much, you know.

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Speaker 1: The sun is my ancient nemesis anyway, I'm considering ice

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Speaker 1: pops as a treatment.

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Speaker 2: It really is hot town somewhere in the city, back

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Speaker 2: of my neck, feeling.

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Speaker 1: Cool cat looking forward, kid, You're going to search in

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Speaker 1: every corner ru the city all around the people looking

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Speaker 1: have to walking on.

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Speaker 2: Oh, gonna get sued by that town and artists too.

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Speaker 1: I doubt it. I doubt it. But that is that

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Speaker 1: is a stone cold jam or a hellishly hot day.

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Speaker 1: So assuming that, assuming that the studio doesn't melt into

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Speaker 1: one interminable mass of plastic VOCs that's volatile organic compounds

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Speaker 1: chemicals a ka the basis of new carsmel and why

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Speaker 1: it will slowly kill you along with organic matter and mortar,

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Speaker 1: we will successfully finish this episode. This is a story

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Speaker 1: that encounters, as we said, so many different conspiratorial threads.

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Speaker 1: And while you were listening, we would like to invite

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Speaker 1: you to participate with us in pseudo real time. I

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Speaker 1: mean time itself is sort of a pseudo thing anyway, right, Yes, So,

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Speaker 1: if the mood strikes you, if the spirit so moves you,

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Speaker 1: as you are joining us today, don't hesitate. Don't feel

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Speaker 1: like you have to wait till the end to write

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Speaker 1: an email, you can go ahead and just give us

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Speaker 1: a call.

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Speaker 2: We are one eight three three std WYTK. And if

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Speaker 2: you're like one of our listeners that we casually mentioned

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Speaker 2: at the end of the show, and I must say

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Speaker 2: in a way that I knew that only this listener

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Speaker 2: would understand that I was talking to her, you will

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Speaker 2: then leave. Six more message is over the weekends, so

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Speaker 2: please feel free to reach out with any kind of questions,

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Speaker 2: any kind of statements, especially if you come up with

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Speaker 2: something as we're talking about this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yes, please, So let us begin to paraphrase HENREDA. Balozak.

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Speaker 1: Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime. It's

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Speaker 1: a thought that we've encountered multiple times, and that you

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Speaker 1: have probably encountered in your own life in any variety

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Speaker 1: of fronts. The concept here is that one cannot, regardless

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Speaker 1: of time and space, one cannot reach, regardless of time

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Speaker 1: and space, a certain threshold of financial success without somehow

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Speaker 1: purposefully or unwittingly gaining some part of that fortune through

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Speaker 1: criminal acts.

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Speaker 2: And it's not it isn't necessarily criminal acts of that

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Speaker 2: person by gaining that wealth, because that wealth, then many

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Speaker 2: times is handed down right, So perhaps it's a criminal

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Speaker 2: act that your grandparents or your great grandparents, or even

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Speaker 2: further back, committing right right.

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Speaker 1: So it's a known fact, for instance, that there are

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Speaker 1: people in the world who still enjoy the benefits their

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Speaker 1: ancestors reaped from things like the slave trade or colonialism.

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Speaker 1: There's also another case to be made if we want

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Speaker 1: to make a case about people who are unwittingly perhaps profiting.

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Speaker 1: For this, we could look at Silicon Valley and the

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Speaker 1: technocrats who live there, profiting off of the backbreaking human

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Speaker 1: rights abuses involved in the mining.

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Speaker 2: Industry, retaining the things they need to make their chips.

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Speaker 1: Right right, right, one way or the other. And this

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Speaker 1: quickly descends into a very sticky philosophical conversation. Are you

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Speaker 1: or I, if we own a smartphone, we also benefiting

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Speaker 1: from this? The answer is more or less yes. But

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Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking about the people who become millionaires, multimillionaires,

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Speaker 1: billionaires in the pursuit of these of these ambitions. Right. Yes.

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Speaker 1: In today's episode, we are traveling back in time, Fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist, we are exploring the story of one of

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Speaker 1: America's earliest tycoons, literally the first multi millionaire in the

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Speaker 1: United States, or perhaps officially is a better word than literally,

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Speaker 1: and will along the way dive into the speculation about

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Speaker 1: just how this one individual arrived at his fortune and

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Speaker 1: why this speculation continues today.

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Speaker 2: And as we'll find out in this episode. As many others,

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Speaker 2: these stories have an official version and not so official versions.

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Speaker 1: Yes, just so, here are the facts. Born Johann Jacob

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Speaker 1: Astor in Germany on j seventeenth, seventeen sixty three, John

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Speaker 1: Jacob Astor was the son of a butcher who would

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Speaker 1: go on to found a financial dynasty that continues in

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Speaker 1: some ways into the modern day.

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Speaker 2: That's right. When he was, you know, a young man,

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Speaker 2: around seventeen years old, he went to London and he

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Speaker 2: started to work with one of his brothers, his older

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Speaker 2: brother George, and this this guy, George, made musical instruments,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it's interesting enough, but he wanted to

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Speaker 2: try something else. So in seventeen eighty four he left London.

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Speaker 2: He got out of town. He brought some some of

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Speaker 2: these instruments with him and just a little bit of

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Speaker 2: pocket money around twenty five dollars, and he traveled all

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Speaker 2: the way across the ocean to the United States to

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Speaker 2: try and find something fortune, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, right to seek his fortune. It's an American dreams story. Right.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's explore the official story about how this German

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Speaker 1: immigrant came to become America's first multi millionaire. So, as

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Speaker 1: you said, Matt, seventeen eighty four, he arrives, he's got

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Speaker 1: some flutes, he's got around twenty five dollars cash money,

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Speaker 1: as they would say. He arrives in Baltimore, and he

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Speaker 1: eventually makes his way up to New York City. While

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Speaker 1: he is in New York, he opens his own fur

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Speaker 1: trade shop in seventeen eighty six, so about two years

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Speaker 1: after he leaves Germany. He often at this time travels

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Speaker 1: out into the wilderness, just like his fur trappers do,

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Speaker 1: and he wants to find new sources for his shop.

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Speaker 1: This is a huge industry at this time, and this

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Speaker 1: was before concerns about preserving species were very widespread. It

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Speaker 1: was a foreign concept or an alien concept to many

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Speaker 1: of these trappers and traders that there would ever be

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Speaker 1: a day where it was difficult to obtain as many

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Speaker 1: repelts as one would wish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because the populations all start to dwindle. Because the

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Speaker 2: furred trade ends up being a really big thing well,

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Speaker 2: and just one quick thing here with Johann aka John Astor. Here.

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Speaker 2: He when he went to New York, he met up

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Speaker 2: with another brother, right, and he was working i think

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Speaker 2: at a butcher shop for a while with his brother,

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Speaker 2: and then he ended up trying his hand at baking,

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Speaker 2: cooking and these kind of things. And he was totally like,

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Speaker 2: I'm never gonna make enough money just working with my

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Speaker 2: hands at this level doing this kind of thing. And

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Speaker 2: that's one of the main reasons he went out to

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Speaker 2: seek out the.

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Speaker 1: Fur trade exactly because he could have easily spent the

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Speaker 1: bulk of his life laboring as a successful artisan, right yeah,

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Speaker 1: And instead he wanted something more. So he traveled to

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Speaker 1: what even today is known as the Land of Excess,

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Speaker 1: and the fur trade was appealing. It helped him get

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Speaker 1: a start again, according to the official story, but he

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Speaker 1: saved his he saved his pennies, he saved his scratch,

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Speaker 1: didn't party too hard at whatever their equivalent of Dave

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Speaker 1: and Busters was back then, And so it came to

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Speaker 1: pass that a few years later Astor was able to

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Speaker 1: make his first real estate investment, and as he was

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Speaker 1: diversifying into real estate, he was continuing to grow his

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Speaker 1: fur business. Eventually, Astor's fur trading interest becomes the country's

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Speaker 1: leading fur company by the turn of the century. He

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Speaker 1: also takes his reach international. He starts exporting fur directly

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Speaker 1: to China. In return, he is importing Chinese silk and tea,

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Speaker 1: which are you know, items of luxury, right with a

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Speaker 1: with a tremendously high profit margin, even counting in all

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Speaker 1: the dangers involved in international shipping at the time.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and you can see how that also becomes

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Speaker 2: very lucrative just the fact that he can ship goods

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Speaker 2: back and forth into different places and then even to China,

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Speaker 2: into different places in China. I mean, this is a

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Speaker 2: huge deal. This is how you really really make some money.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right, You go big, you go international. So

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Speaker 1: all of Astor's fur businesses has different, you know, different interests.

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Speaker 1: We talk about this. This occurs in business today. You

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Speaker 1: may see five different products on the same shelf in

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Speaker 1: the same section of a grocery store, and they're ultimately

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Speaker 1: all owned by the same place. Fingers on a hand, right,

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Speaker 1: So he goes public with this. He merges all of

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Speaker 1: his fur businesses into something he calls in a burst

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Speaker 1: of creativity, the American Fur Company in eighteen oh eight.

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Speaker 1: And we shouldn't be too hard on the guy. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure he had a lot going on. He just needed

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Speaker 1: something simple and to the point for the name.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think if you can call something the

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Speaker 2: American anything, like, if that name hasn't been trademarked already,

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Speaker 2: I mean, go ahead and trademark it.

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Speaker 1: That's great because that's similar to you know, I bet

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Speaker 1: you've stumbled onto an ad an AD cycle, like an

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Speaker 1: AD copy cycle. Maybe we've mentioned this before, but if

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Speaker 1: you're listening now, depending on how old or young you are,

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Speaker 1: you can probably look back in your life and notice

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Speaker 1: that marketing companies and ad companies go through this sort

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Speaker 1: of industry wide trend towards certain phrases.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I think there are times when everything is organic, or

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Speaker 1: in the nineties everything was digital. It didn't even matter

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Speaker 1: if it was an actual digital product, right, Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And so maybe American was one of the first iterations

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Speaker 1: of that. I think that's I think you're probably right.

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Speaker 1: But regardless of our theories on the creativity or lack

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Speaker 1: thereof and the ad community, it turns out that this

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Speaker 1: was a very good move on his part and the US.

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Speaker 1: We have to remember this is just the dawn of

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. The US is still still in its

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Speaker 1: infancy in terms of what will later become the fifty

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Speaker 1: state beheamoth we know today. Lewis and Clark had just

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Speaker 1: ended their expedition to the west coast of the continent.

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Speaker 1: That was in what eighteen oh six, And after this

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Speaker 1: Astor when he learned about this expedition, he bought up

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Speaker 1: some land in Oregon where a fort was built in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eleven, and he had planned to build a settlement

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Speaker 1: called Astoria, not the most humble name, but you know,

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Speaker 1: he was by far not the only person doing this. Everybody.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was naming crap after themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and why not. I mean, that's pretty great eighteen

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Speaker 2: eleven building a thing called a Storia, which sound I mean,

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Speaker 2: it actually doesn't sound that bad. Well, it's not like

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Speaker 2: a story of Asterville or or Fordlandia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but we also have to consider, for being fair,

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Speaker 1: that the people would live there for thousands of years earlier,

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Speaker 1: probably had their own name for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: Well, regardless, the reason he did not end up going

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Speaker 1: through with this was because of the War of eighteen twelve,

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Speaker 1: he ended up selling the outpost because Great Britain and

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Speaker 1: the United States had what people today would call a

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Speaker 1: messy breakup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it was with a Canadian company that

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Speaker 2: purchased that from him, or Canadian interests at least.

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Speaker 1: Right, So he decided to get out while the getting

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Speaker 1: was good, you know what I mean? Because if he

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Speaker 1: had if he had owned that land and the US

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Speaker 1: ended up losing control over it or sovereignty over it,

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Speaker 1: would his deed of ownership still be honored.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and indeed they did take over for like

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Speaker 2: forty years.

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Speaker 1: And so he appeared to have made the right decision.

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Speaker 1: After the War of eighteen twelve, he made even more scratch,

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Speaker 1: even more cheddar, even more pony bones, whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to call it, because he had a bond deal with

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Speaker 1: the US government. At the same time. His wealth is

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Speaker 1: compounded by the fact that all the real estate in

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Speaker 1: New York City he owns begins the skyrocket in value.

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Speaker 2: And then he ends up getting out of the fur

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Speaker 2: business around eighteen thirties, and then he's really you know,

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Speaker 2: I guess he's realizing that the true money now is

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Speaker 2: in the accrude wealth of those properties. That he owns.

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Speaker 2: So he's spending a lot of time doing his real

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Speaker 2: estate management and all the estates, the investments he's you know,

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Speaker 2: at this point, he owns hotels, he owns places where

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Speaker 2: other people live, residences where people are paying rent essentially,

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Speaker 2: and that's where his time is spent and his money

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Speaker 2: really is made.

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Speaker 1: That's where he sees his most significant return. It's not

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Speaker 1: to say that being a landlord is easy by any means,

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Speaker 1: as I'm sure the landlord's listening here can attest. But

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Speaker 1: it is to say it's less work than sending people

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Speaker 1: out into the wild to try to capture dwindling populations

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Speaker 1: of wild animals in the hopes that affur retains its value.

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Speaker 2: And then sending a lot of the same people or

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Speaker 2: new other people you're hiring to then ship it across the.

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Speaker 1: World, right and just hope nothing goes wrong. So that's

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Speaker 1: why he goes into real estate. And again, as the

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Speaker 1: official story, by the time Astor dies in eighteen forty eight,

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Speaker 1: he is the most wealthy man in the country. He

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Speaker 1: has an estimated fortune of around twenty million dollars. And

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Speaker 1: just let's give a little bit of perspective here, Paul

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Speaker 1: we're going to have an inflation calculator. Could you throw

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Speaker 1: us a sound cueue somewhere in the middle of this.

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Speaker 1: So twenty million dollars in eighteen forty eight is roughly equivalent.

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Speaker 2: To six hundred and forty six million, nine hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty six thousand, nine hundred and sixty two dollars and

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Speaker 2: three cents.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen. Yes, so almost like more than half

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Speaker 1: a billion dollars. Yes, most of his wealth, the vast majority,

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Speaker 1: goes to one guy, one of his uh seven children,

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Speaker 1: William Backhouse Astor. Yes, you heard that correctly. His middle

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Speaker 1: name is the words back and house together, William Backhouse Astor.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like something his friends called him, or

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Speaker 2: like he was a wrestler something.

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Speaker 1: It does sound like weird. It's one of those yeah,

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Speaker 1: in joke nicknames. I'm sure it's it's it has a

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Speaker 1: logic and reason to it, but it sounds like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, how you meet different friend groups and one

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Speaker 1: of the members of the friend group just has has

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Speaker 1: a weird name that no one explains to you, just

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Speaker 1: have it, like.

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Speaker 2: Like, really, your name's Red Paladin. Okay, Sure, that's pretty okay?

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Speaker 2: Is that whatever you say.

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Speaker 1: Archie friends at Dragging Con, is that what's going on?

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Speaker 2: No, my wife's making me watch Riverdale and it's killing me.

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Speaker 1: It's Riverdale isn't a murder mystery now it is.

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Speaker 2: I can, like I survive because it is a murder mystery.

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Speaker 1: But oh my god, is jug Head the killer? He

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Speaker 1: always struck me as the most sinister dude.

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Speaker 2: Jughead and FP are holding it down.

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Speaker 1: Who's fph Should I? Should? I? Just uh read the

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Speaker 1: reviews on Vox or something or.

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Speaker 2: No, just know that FP is skeet ulrich and he

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Speaker 2: makes the show worth it for me, as well as

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Speaker 2: the late unfortunately Luke Perry, who is also awesome. There

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Speaker 2: are a lot of great there. There's the cast is wonderful.

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Speaker 2: The show itself is slightly infuriating.

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Speaker 1: Okay, slightly infuriating, that's the review.

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Speaker 2: No, not in a bad way. It's just you can

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Speaker 2: tell it's written for maybe a slightly younger audience than me.

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Speaker 2: They do They do reference movies that came out the

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Speaker 2: year that they were in production, which is or you know,

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Speaker 2: a couple of years prior to being in production, which

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Speaker 2: is so interesting to have a separate universe. But Baby

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Speaker 2: Driver is still a thing.

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Speaker 1: So is this on real quick? Is this on CW?

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Speaker 2: I don't even know it's one of the streaming services.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to play a little gargoyle Griffin's

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Speaker 2: and gargoyles now, So when you're ready, let's let's throw

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Speaker 2: down some dice and get the chalices. Oh God, I

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Speaker 2: don't know why I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, that's your official story, and it coincides with

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Speaker 1: the official story of John Jacob Astro. It's very difficult,

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Speaker 1: I imagine, for both of us not to say John

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Speaker 1: Jacob Jingelheimerschmidt every time. But anyway, Johnny j Aster, at

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Speaker 1: this point, posthumously, he looks to be a quintessential example

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Speaker 1: of the American dream. He has all the essential ingredients.

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Speaker 1: He's a hard working immigrant. He has risen to the

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Speaker 1: top achalons of society, not through undeserved inheritance, not because

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Speaker 1: of who his parents were, but because he combined hard

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Speaker 1: work with sharp wits, good old gumption, and no small

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Speaker 1: dose of good luck. However, for decades and decades, various

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Speaker 1: researchers have proposed another we could say conspiratorial narrative, a

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Speaker 1: less inspiring stranger explanation for the source of Astor's enormous wealth.

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Speaker 1: What if instead of earning it slowly over time, he

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Speaker 1: stole it all in one go.

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Speaker 2: And we'll learn about that right after a quick word

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Speaker 2: from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. There's an alternate story about

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Speaker 1: John Jacob Aster's wealth. Let's say that the story of

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Speaker 1: his arrival to the North American continent is true up

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Speaker 1: to his early career as a fur trader. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: if the narrative takes a sharp turn shortly afterward. What if,

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Speaker 1: instead of continually evolving his business, Astor has a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of help from an unexpected discovery. Could his fortune

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Speaker 1: be based not on business acumen, but on the secret

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Speaker 1: discovery of buried treasure.

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Speaker 2: Now, before we get into this, this is why it's

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Speaker 2: so interesting to me, because one of the major things

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Speaker 2: you need in order to make money is to have

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Speaker 2: some money. Right, This is something we've established throughout all

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Speaker 2: of time, Memoriam. The connection here is that he just

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Speaker 2: needed a certain injection of funds early on to be

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Speaker 2: able to make some of the investments he made and

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Speaker 2: to grow that into a fortune. That's what everything else

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Speaker 2: we're talking about. That's what makes it so fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: So there's this other person, this other person named William Kidd,

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Speaker 2: and he had this thing called pirate treasure. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 2: let's get into his life. So this dude was born

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Speaker 2: William Kidd. He was born in sixteen forty five. He

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Speaker 2: originally had a career focusing on privateering, but eventually he

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Speaker 2: was hired by European royals to attack foreign ships that

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Speaker 2: would encroach on land and would be enemies essentially.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, or competitors, because we have to consider at

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Speaker 1: this point that trade and state craft were very closely,

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Speaker 1: very closely intertwined.

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Speaker 2: And much of it is happening on the open seas,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the pirates come in.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so, as so, he was a pirate hunter, and

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Speaker 1: he took the helm of a ship called the Adventure

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Speaker 1: Galley in sixteen ninety five. English investors had hired him

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Speaker 1: to be a privateer to hunt down the four investors

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Speaker 1: that were endangering there or as you know, his employer's

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Speaker 1: international trade deals. Now, hold on, Matt, hold on, Ben,

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Speaker 1: you might be saying, as you listen along here, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure that Captain William Kidd is one of the

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Speaker 1: world's most notorious pirates from this era. And you were

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Speaker 1: telling me that he started out hunting pirates, he became

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Speaker 1: one of the same monsters he meant to eradicate. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what we're saying.

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Speaker 2: It's like he got bitten by a pirate and he became.

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Speaker 1: A which is how it works. That's how it works exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the problem with his pirate hunting days was that

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Speaker 1: they couldn't He and his crew didn't really find the

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Speaker 1: ships they were supposed to attack. They were supposed to

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Speaker 1: attack some French ships, and they found very few of them.

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Speaker 1: And then in January of sixteen ninety eight, he caught

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Speaker 1: sight of something called the Quagda Merchant, which was rounding

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Speaker 1: the tip of India. This was an Armenian ship, weighed

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Speaker 1: five hundred tons. It carried gold, silk spices, all the hits.

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Speaker 1: They were owned in part by a minister at the

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Speaker 1: Indian Grand Mughal's court. This minister had powerful, powerful connections,

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Speaker 1: and when he learned that his vessel had been attacked,

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Speaker 1: he complained to the East India Company.

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Speaker 2: M that's an old hit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And now the East India Company and the Grand

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Speaker 1: Mogul are saying, this guy is not legit, he's not

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Speaker 1: a pirate hunter. He's hurting the wrong ships. He is

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Speaker 1: not a pirate hunter. He is a pirate and so

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Speaker 1: begins his life on the wrong side of the law.

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Speaker 1: Turns out being on the wrong side of law did

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Speaker 1: not suit Kid over the long term, and he eventually

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Speaker 1: was arrested in Boston. Then he was shipped back to

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Speaker 1: England for his trial.

434
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: And his court date was May eighth, seventeen oh one,

435
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: and he was found guilty and unfortunately for him, he

436
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: was hanged on May twenty third of that same year,

437
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: seventeen oh one. And again like one of the big

438
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: things here, there are some abhorrent things done to humans

439
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: and their bodies, you know, within in the past to

440
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: basically serve as warnings for other people to not do something.

441
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: And Captain William Kidd he was one of these people

442
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: because his body, after it was dead and hung, was

443
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: then put in a cage and hung up and it

444
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: was left or rot there for everyone to see. Everybody

445
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: who went down the Tims River, the one that goes

446
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: through London, so you know, don't be a pirate. Look

447
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: at that guy. He was a pirate.

448
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: See what happens when you mess with the world's most

449
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: successful corporation. Right, yeah, So here's the thing. He's dead.

450
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: No one knows how much treasure he did or did

451
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: not have, and no one knows where he did or

452
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: did not put it.

453
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: We did know that there was about ten thousand pounds

454
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: worth of treasure that was sent to pay for part

455
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: of the trial and a couple other things. Right, Yes,

456
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: there's something like that where it was not a lot

457
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: of money. I mean, ten thousand pounds at the time

458
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: is a lot of money, but it wasn't like the

459
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: full pirate bounty that you would think of.

460
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: Right. We do know that he did possess treasure. He

461
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: did deposit some of it on Gardeneer's Island, hoping to

462
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: use his knowledge of the treasure as a bargaining chip.

463
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: He also he also probably puts some in other places.

464
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: The thing is, no one knows exactly where that would be.

465
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: No one date has found this huge treasure trove. Before

466
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: he was hanged in seventeen oh one, he allegedly buried

467
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: some of his loot in the Caribbean. This was the

468
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: popular theory at the time, and despite the generations of

469
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: treasure hunters who have attempted to verify his claims more

470
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: or less in over the past three centuries. Nothing has

471
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: been recovered that would equal the rumors, because the rumors

472
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: are kind of like like Smoug's Horde of gold level

473
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: treasure trove, you know what I mean, not just a

474
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: box with some emeralds. This brings us background. So the

475
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: life and times of William Kiddon. He did get treasure,

476
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: we don't know how much. He put it in a

477
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: few places, and then he ducked and then he died,

478
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: and we don't know where those places are. So the

479
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: Astore connection. Could John Jacob Astor have somehow located a

480
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: piece of Kid's treasure? We will tell you the actual

481
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: answer after a word from our sponsors, and we're back.

482
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: There's more to this story than one might think it

483
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: first blush. It all traces back to a fellow named

484
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: Franklin Harvey Head.

485
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Yes, this gentleman, mister Head. He was a lawyer. He

486
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: was born in New York, and he worked in all over,

487
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: like really all over the place, Wisconsin, California, Utah, and

488
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: he ended up in Chicago. He was a bank director

489
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: and president of this place called the Chicago Malleable Iron Company,

490
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: another one of those awesome company titles or names that

491
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: is just if it's not there, we'll take it. But

492
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: in this case they added Malleable just to let you

493
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: know that iron was going to be shaped and changed,

494
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: which is pretty cool because again it's so funny. Sometimes

495
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: we forget that shaping iron into things and then cooling

496
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: it off was such a major advancement in human history.

497
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: There was a big deal and we need still they

498
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: needed a ton of iron to be produced.

499
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

500
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: So this guy, Franklin Harbyhead, he he's the kind of

501
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: guy that has some wealth and he also likes to

502
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: show it off a little bit and also socialize with

503
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: other people that have some wealth.

504
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: Right, he's a social climber.

505
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: Yes exactly. And you know one of the things that

506
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: he likes to do was write and publish these humorous

507
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: tales that he would use to try and impress his

508
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: wealthy friends.

509
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the kind of people that he wants

510
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: to hang out with are not the novu riche there

511
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: is new money, got it. They're the kind of people

512
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: that he wants to hang out with are the equivalent

513
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: of American aristocrats. Their idea of success is to not

514
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: be associated with earning money, and indeed to look down

515
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: at times upon people who do work for a living.

516
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: Even if they're working for a living, is just them

517
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: owning a company, you know. Let's not forget this is

518
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: the country where someone once famously derided the Hilton family

519
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: by saying, oh, the Hiltons are they still letting rooms

520
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: to people? And for many of us listening, of course,

521
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: that is that is a surreal and cartoonish concept that

522
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: you would be condescending to someone for being good at something.

523
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: But this was the case. These were the sorts of

524
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: groups with whom had aspired to be associated. And you

525
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: can see why he is a person between two worlds

526
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: because he still has to work for a living. The shame, right,

527
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: the ignomy.

528
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: And just the last the thing that's most important in

529
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: order to feel as though he's included with those groups

530
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 2: the way been talking about here, it's very important to

531
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: note that the stories he was talking about would make

532
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: reference to historical figures that those people would recognize and know,

533
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: but they are made up.

534
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: Or or pander a bit to his friends, I would say,

535
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: more importantly, pander a bit to his friends by mentioning

536
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: their ancestry or the land that their families got back when,

537
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, back when one of them had a job.

538
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: So the most important thing that you just point out there, Matt,

539
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 1: is that these stories which were whimsicals, satirical, they were

540
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: made up. They were made them upseas and they were

541
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: to quote Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quister, and they were

542
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: meant to they were meant to ingratiate him within these circles.

543
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: They were also not meant to be widely published outside,

544
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: because you know, the more people have access to a thing,

545
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: the less interesting or valuable it becomes. In this in again,

546
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: in this mindset. That's not how the world should work,

547
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: but that's how their mindset was functioning. We have some

548
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: examples in a work of his, a work of heads

549
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: called Shakespeare's Insomnia and the Causes Thereof. He claims that

550
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: newly discovered correspondence between Shakespeare, Sir Walter Raleigh, an actor

551
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: named William Kemp, and a money lender with a tremendously

552
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: offensive name, Mordecai Shylock all show that Shakespeare had difficulty

553
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: with money and marriage, and that this led to chronic insomnia,

554
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: and that his chronic insomnia manifests itself in many of

555
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: his works because various characters talk about sleeping or not sleeping.

556
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they need to get some rest. Finally they can

557
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: be okay, yeah, fascinating and it's funny in a way.

558
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: I've not read the book, but just that concept alone

559
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: is humorous to me.

560
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I get where he's going with it.

561
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: One of his books is the actual and only source,

562
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: only primary source for this story about Astor and William Kidd.

563
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 1: And here's how it happens. So Harvey Head is having

564
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: dinner with the daughter of a landscape architect named Frederick

565
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: Law Olmsted, and the subject of some property in Maine

566
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: comes up. And this is a place called Deer Island.

567
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: Olmsted owns land there and he spent maybe like a

568
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: summer there before he passed away. And based on this conversation,

569
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: Head decides he's going to have a little fun. Aha.

570
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: He thinks it's time for one of my classic moves,

571
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: one of my in joke books. I'm gonna absolutely kill

572
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: it with this crowd. What does he do?

573
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 2: Man with the olmsteads? Okay, well, and just another little

574
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: footnote here about Frederick Law Olmsted the architect who moved

575
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: there to Deer Mains Deer Island. It really was so

576
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: soon before his death. He ended up being put in

577
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: a I guess a facility because he was on his

578
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: way out almost immediately after moving there. Ended up being

579
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: a little a tragic little story there about him. You

580
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: can read more about in other places. But Head thought

581
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: it would be hilarious if he came up with this

582
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: backstory as to how one of Olmsted's I guess ancestors

583
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: helped John Astor, who was who's known widely known as

584
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: one of the most wealthy people in the world. All

585
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: these people know who at the Astor family is, and

586
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: John Astor came up with his idea of maybe here's

587
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: this secret, little this tale about how your ancestor helped

588
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: this guy become the wealthiest person in the world.

589
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: Right he writes a book called Studies in Early American History,

590
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: a notable lawsuit, and in this story. In this work

591
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: he which you can read online by the way, he

592
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: describes how Olmsted's descendants sued the Astor family to recover

593
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: William Kidd's pirate treasure. According to this account, one of

594
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: one of Astor's agents, or perhaps asked for himself. A

595
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: fur trapper discovered a buried treasure chest from the pirate

596
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: William Kidd on land that Olmsted's ancestors owned on Deer

597
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: Isle in Maine. This trapper stole the chest, but for

598
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: some reason did not know its actual value, so he

599
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: sold the chest to John Jacob Aster, and it became

600
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: the entire basis for the Astor family fortune in Head's

601
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: account generations. Later, the Olmsteds somehow discover this theft, and

602
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: they decided to sue the Astor clan for compensation, including

603
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: back rent on all his Manhattan real estate that you know,

604
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: because he had purchased it with his pirate treasure and

605
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: the stick there, you know, you see how it's almost

606
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: like an onion article. It just continues to escalate. But

607
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 1: the book itself is full of these nods and these winks,

608
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: and these tongues and these cheeks. It's full of tip

609
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: offs that it is not a work of fact, including

610
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: references to ancestors that don't exist, like Cod Mather Olmsted

611
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: or Oliver Cromwell Olmsted, neither of whom are real.

612
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's just throwing Olmsted on the bottom of

613
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: other important.

614
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: Figures right exactly, William Shakespeare, Olmsted, etc. So maybe the

615
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: biggest indicator that this story is completely fictional was that

616
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: there is no lawsuit. The book mentions a lawsuit and

617
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: bases itself on this lawsuit, but the lawsuit does not exist. Yeah,

618
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: it is not a thing. It's not real at.

619
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 2: Least, it's not written about in any papers and any

620
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: ledgers and anything that has been kept over all the years.

621
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: In any legal documents proceedings. It's not cited as precedent

622
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: for anything. It doesn't exist.

623
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: Well, and in the account of Head, there's it's a

624
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: very specific claim of asking for five million dollars or

625
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: the equivalent, Yeah, five million dollars roughly, or just you know,

626
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: control over all of John Astor's property in Manhattan, which

627
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: everyone was easier, essentially what he will work with you. Yeah,

628
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: and it was like minus a couple cents for some

629
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: other thing. I mean, it's very very specific.

630
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: So this is a little bit of conspiracy busting here.

631
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: This story was published in eighteen ninety two, and again

632
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: it was originally known to be fiction. The Olmsted's knew

633
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: it was fiction. The guy who wrote it, Head knew

634
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: it was fiction. He was just funny. But the problem

635
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: is that people at that time, in the late eighteen

636
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: hundreds early nineteen hundreds, were very, very similar to people

637
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties or twenty nineteen, or we can

638
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: go ahead and reach to assume people in twenty fifty

639
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: They were desperate for news of the world's wealthy and

640
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: had a difficult time separating fact and fiction, differentiating between

641
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, one news report on Facebook and in the

642
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: piece of fake news on Facebook.

643
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: Right, Well, and let's talk about fact checking in the

644
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds.

645
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: Or how would hundred Yeah, how would you verify?

646
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: Well, just how difficult it would be to have correspondence

647
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: between some like some law office somewhere else, let's say

648
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: in Maine, even if you're in New York or something,

649
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 2: just making that happen and trying to get any kind

650
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: of correspondence back and forth in a timely manner to

651
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: write or report on something. If let's say, in New

652
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: York City or Chicago, you came upon a copy of

653
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: this this work and you were unsure of it's you know,

654
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: it's veracity or it's the truth behind any of the stuff.

655
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 2: But it looks real and it's talking about people that

656
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: you you know. The name sell sound familiar. It looks

657
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: all familiar and who knows.

658
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: Hey, that reminds me. I can't remember if I told

659
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: you because we this this is the first time this

660
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: week we're hanging out. I went to Maine this weekend.

661
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: Oh did you mention? That?

662
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 2: Was that the jumping off point to the other place

663
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: you went?

664
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: No, No, it was actually I had to go to

665
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: Maine to make it back here.

666
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, yeah it was.

667
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: It was kind of sketchy. I was in Maine in

668
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: an undisclosed location on a ramp for two hours or so. Whoa, yeah,

669
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: because someone went wrong with the plane. That's how I

670
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: ended up in Maine. I don't know if it counts.

671
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 1: I guess I can't say I went to Maine because

672
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed outside of the plane. Yeah, but I'm

673
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: still gonna count it, and one day I'll one day

674
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: I'll walk in Maine as a freeman. But today, with

675
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: this weekend, was not that weekend. So yeah, if you're listening,

676
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: you're in Maine, tell me what it's like outside outside

677
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: of a vehicle. I want to check it out. I here.

678
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: Now is a good time to visit Maine as well,

679
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: because it's not you know, snowed in and Stephen Kingy.

680
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: All right, well I'll definitely.

681
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: Do you want to go to Maine sometimes? Yeah, let's

682
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: go to Maine, Paul, Do you want to go to Maine?

683
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: Paul Hollywood. Okay, he's given us a nod.

684
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: Definitely.

685
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: That was an enthusiastic nod. Well, yes, you're you're absolutely right.

686
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: It's easier now to differentiate between fact and fiction. But

687
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: then it took a lot of legwork. Right. The problems

688
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: starts a compound when a magazine called Liberty publishes an

689
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: account of this story as though it is fact. And

690
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: this is for comparison. This is the very similar to

691
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: the Internet rumors about celebrities that will uh that will

692
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: still make the rounds today, like what's that? What's that one?

693
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: Richard gear in the Gerbil? Remember that that old chestnut?

694
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: I have no idea what you're talking about.

695
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: Okay, good, because we still want this to be a

696
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: family show. Yes, google it, but not on your word computer.

697
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: This was presented as though it were factual when it

698
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: was literally the equivalent of a mad magazine for insiders

699
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: or an onion newspaper. And then it gets even worse.

700
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: It gets codified into history nineteen twenty six, when a

701
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: historian in California presents this story as though it is true,

702
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: and everyone essentially falls for it. It's published. Not just

703
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: in papers in California do they say this historian figured

704
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: this out, Not just in papers in New York do

705
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: they say this historians figured it out? And not just

706
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: in Maine do they say this. They say it around

707
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: the world, and now people continue to believe it, and

708
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 1: you'll hear it floated as some sort of his historical conspiracy,

709
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: right that that not only is it true that at

710
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: the heart of every great fortune lay a great crime,

711
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: but that we know the great crime of John Jacob Astro,

712
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: which is stealing from pirates, and that's escape Architects.

713
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: Well, there's even a I think it's a History Channel show,

714
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: I don't even know if it's in production right now,

715
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: called Unearthed, uh huh, where at one point they, you know,

716
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 2: they craft this whole episode about how this guy finds

717
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: out that there's a secret number of correspondence and within

718
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: this book that was written by Head that basically translates

719
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: or represents the coordinates to this place on Deer Island

720
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: where the treasure still remains, and they apparently they go

721
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: throughout the entire episode just pretending like it's real until

722
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: they end up, you know, discussing at the end and

723
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: finding out, oh, this was all just in historical fiction account.

724
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, America Onearthed, that's the name. Yeah, so a

725
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: bit about that genre of show, Matt, You and I

726
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: have had run ins with creators of shows like this,

727
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: not specifically America on Earthed. I don't want to dign them.

728
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: I haven't watched the show, but I am aware of

729
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Uh, what we have seen is

730
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: that the companies creating these shows have a propensity to

731
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: prize you know, what they see as as a clickbaity headline,

732
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: the broadcast equivalent thereof, over facts and investigations. So we've

733
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: been in situations where and not to brag about us

734
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: or anything or this show, but we've been in situations

735
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: where we have just walked away from offers to collaborate

736
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 1: these sorts of projects because we feel that they are

737
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: at the very least wildly misleading. Yes, I am I

738
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: being diplomatic enough. When they saw that you really are.

739
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: I think. I think at the heart of it, you

740
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: would say that sensationalism is paramount because it will get

741
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: eyeballs on the screen on the correct channel configuration that

742
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: you're looking for.

743
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I guess, but but that leaves

744
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: but that leaves people in such a lurch. You know,

745
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: when when you see this kind of wackado presentation of

746
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: things at the very end someone says, you know, it's

747
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: like at the very end of a pharmaceutical commercial, which

748
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: is a crazy thing anyway, or the very end of

749
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: a car commercial where the fine print person comes in

750
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: and they say, you know, the following account is based

751
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: on a satirical fictional work published in the late at

752
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: hundreds by Franklin Head, which has little or nothing to

753
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: do with the facts of the matter. It's so great,

754
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's it and I get

755
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: it that it's entertainment, but it should not be entertainment

756
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: disguised as you know, disguised as some sort of factual investigation.

757
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: I always think about the Mermaids show.

758
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, have we mentioned that on Era? We have, right,

759
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: we did.

760
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: I think we did an podcast episode on it, but

761
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 2: we definitely did a video on it.

762
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, years and years back, Matt, you and I

763
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: were asked to participate in something between participating something that

764
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: was again wildly misleading and not a not a small

765
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: bit exploitative. Someone had put out this documentary documentary that

766
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: was purporting to be a documentary about the discovery of

767
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: mermaids roommates have finally been discovered. They were real. Here

768
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: they are, And we were asked to I think we

769
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: talked about this on our Facebook group earlier. Here's where

770
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: it gets crazy. As our Facebook group, we were asked

771
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: to dive into, dive into this documentary and present our

772
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: take on it as though it were true. We refused.

773
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: This was also, I think one of the only times

774
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: anyone had ever specifically asked us to do something.

775
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: Yeah right, And it's also why Discovery sold the whole

776
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 2: company because they were like Ben, Matt, Nope.

777
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: Won't play ball, right, We were the mice that right

778
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: in the elephant. That's that's also myth elephants don't care.

779
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: Frankly I wrote that yet. So, if anything, this is

780
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale.

781
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: It is.

782
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: Virtually certain that more myths like this propagate, mass grading

783
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: this fact in your day to day experiences. For your

784
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: entire life, you know what I mean? There are tons

785
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: of things that the equivalent of three kids in a

786
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: trench coat pretending to be an adult, which I'm just

787
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: that's just a great image. That's why I'm putting that

788
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: in there. So the good news is that armed with

789
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: this information, more and more people are not wasting time

790
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: trying to trying to find some kind of William Kidd

791
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: treasure in Maine instead, because even in that story, that's

792
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: a weird thing about Dear Island. Even in that story

793
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: the treasure is taken. But more and more people are

794
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: searching for kids treasure in other places that are based

795
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: on their understanding as actual voyages, and oddly enough, more

796
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: and more people claim to find this treasure with each

797
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: passing decade. There's a recent example which makes a lot

798
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: more so, Vents from Madagascar in twenty fifteen, and the

799
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: title of it get this, You're gonna love this.

800
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 2: How many times are we going to find Captain Kid's treasure?

801
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: Right? So, the first line is from New Jersey to Vietnam.

802
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: There's barely a swatch of the world left untouched by

803
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: the swashbuckling pirate. Captain Kid's evasive legacy. In twenty fifteen,

804
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: an explorer named Barry Clifford says he's discovered a sunken

805
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: treasure at the bottom of the Indian Ocean off the

806
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: coast of Madagascar. He found a one hundred pound silver

807
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: bar with strange markings on it, and he said, this

808
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: is a remnant of the pirate's wrecked ship, because he

809
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: did wreck as ship in Madagascar. So the thing is

810
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: that there are so many shipwrecks throughout these oceans of hours.

811
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: Finding something is one thing, but then proving its providence

812
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: is another, and it's more difficult, perhaps than you might think.

813
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: So Kid's treasure may have been discovered. It leads us

814
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: to a larger question, though, do you think that there

815
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,479
Speaker 1: is still buried treasure out there that remains undiscovered? Where

816
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: could it be located? And I know this episode may

817
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: have been a bit of a bummer because we did

818
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: bust a conspiracy kind of, but this leads us to

819
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: I would argue more important conspiracy for our day and age.

820
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: Do you think that someone could pull off something like

821
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: Franklin Head did.

822
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 2: Ooh and like make up a story and then the

823
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 2: modern day make everyone think it's real. Yeah, ah, yeah,

824
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 2: for sure. Think about some of the viral videos that

825
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: have occurred where it's one of these small groups of

826
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 2: video audio video professionals that are making fake things about

827
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 2: a bear attack or like an almost bear attack, or

828
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of some of the exact examples,

829
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 2: and if you know some of these or give us

830
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: a call. But there's somewhere it's been absolutely proven to

831
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: be false. Oh the one there was like Justin Bieber

832
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: eating a burrito like from the middle or something like that,

833
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 2: where it became a national news story in all of

834
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: these places, but it was just these guys. Somebody dressed

835
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: up like Justin Bieber and ate a burrito from the

836
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 2: center and it became a thing. I think it's probably

837
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 2: pretty easy now because of the rapid rate that everyone

838
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: wants to pick up a story and you kind of

839
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: have to in order to be relevant. You've got to

840
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: get it in your feed somehow. So I think it's

841
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: I bet it's easier. Now.

842
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: That's interesting. We should do an episode on deep fakes

843
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: in general, right, yeah, yeah, So let us know what

844
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: your examples are, or if you were to perpetuate a

845
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: myth of this nature, what would it be and why

846
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: There's one example that someone recently posted on Here's Where

847
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: It Gets Crazy that I would like to read because

848
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: it just sounds like a great time. You want to

849
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: hear it?

850
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?

851
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: This comes from Wayward Sun, who said, in the latest

852
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: episode you fellas pose the question what mystery would you

853
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: like to leave the world trolling? Of course, I want

854
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: to rob a house, he says. Stay with me. I

855
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: want to steal someone's entire house. Now, this would take

856
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: a lot of resources, but the mechanics are pretty straightforward.

857
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: It would have to be a rural area where there

858
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: are less neighbors and they are farther between. Wait for

859
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 1: some poor, unsuspected family to go on a long vacation,

860
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: then hire a house moving company. Of course, there would

861
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: have to be planning a fluid capital to asswash the

862
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: house movers from spilling the beans. Then you simply jack

863
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 1: the house up and off we go with everything inside.

864
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: The family comes home to an empty space, disbelief and

865
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: hilarity ensue, and then we go down in historical anonymity

866
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: as the unknown perpetrators of the greatest unsolved mystery of

867
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: all times. Step aside, go Beckley Teppe.

868
00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: Wow, I want to say I'm on board. You're still

869
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 2: stealing a house, even even jokingly.

870
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: There, I'm on board. I'm on board if through some

871
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: ridiculous series of circumstances they get their house back. Yes,

872
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: so I think it's more of a troll move for

873
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: the house to show to show up later all their stuff.

874
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: I think it's way funnier if it's moved only slightly.

875
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: Maybe it's only a couple of feet over, like beyond

876
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 2: a gate or something. Now it's behind the gate and

877
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 2: it used to be on the other side of the gate.

878
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, David Kope says, break into a house and

879
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: move everything over two to three inches.

880
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 2: There you go.

881
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: Uh. And then you know, also I had this idea too,

882
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: Uh why not don't why not replace the house, don't

883
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 1: just steal it, replace it with a nicer house.

884
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 2: But all the stuff is still in All.

885
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: The stuff is still in the house, all the same stuff.

886
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: And then have one empty room. Yeah that doesn't exist

887
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: in the in the old house. And in there leave

888
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: leave the room absolutely blank except for a Manila envelope

889
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: on the floor, and it has a VHS tape of

890
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: the bearn steam Bears. Right.

891
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: But see, you're just describing the Netflix revival of Queer Eye.

892
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: Really just put a whole new house there.

893
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: What happens? I've watched it.

894
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: All your facial care products are replaced. I don't know

895
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 2: how it works. My wife makes me watch a lot

896
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: of TV.

897
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: I see, I see.

898
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: Well.

899
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying some of it.

900
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: I really am.

901
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

902
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy

903
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 1: to find online. Find it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff

904
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: where we exist on Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram

905
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: and TikTok. We're conspiracy Stuff.

906
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 2: Show call our number. It's one eight three three st

907
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 2: d w y t K.

908
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 1: Leave a voicemail and if you have more to say,

909
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you at our good

910
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio

911
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: dot com.

912
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

913
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,479
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

914
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.