1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the thing. 2 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: My guest, Josh Fox didn't set out to be an 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: Oscar nominated documentary filmmaker. His family happens to own a 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: house in Milenville, Pennsylvania, in the Upper Delaware Valley. He 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: tells about what happened there in his film The house 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: was built in two when I was born. My parents 7 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: and their hippie friends built it, and my family and 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: my brothers and sisters and I grew pretty much the 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: same way I did, little by little. There's a stream 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: that runs down the property connects to the Delaware River. 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: I've been learning more and more about how water is 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: all connected. In nineteen that house happens to sit above 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: a gigantic deposit of sedimentary rock known as the Marcellus Shale. 14 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: In that shale are tiny bubbles of natural gas, And 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: one day a natural gas company offered Josh's family a 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: lot of money in exchange for drilling rights, like at 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: least my land to this company, and I would receive 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: a signing bonus of four thousand, seven hundred and fifty 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: dollars an acre, having nineteen point five acres. That was 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: nearly a hundred thousand dollars right there in my hand. 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: Could it be that easy? Josh Fox's film gas Land 22 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: is about the dangers of hydraulic fracturing, also known as fracking, 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: a process of extracting natural gas from rock using pressure, water, sand, 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: and chemicals. The environmental impacts of fracking can include contamination 25 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: of groundwater, depletion of fresh water, and risks to air quality, 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: all of which have long term effects on human health. 27 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: Gas Land introduces us to people whose daily lives have 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: been impacted by fracking, people like Pat Farnelli, who says 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: there were days when four of her kids were out 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: sick from school. For Nellie takes a stand for her 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: community of Dimmock, Pennsylvania, and the pressure is put on 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: it by companies like cabin Oil and Gas. Everywhere there's 33 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: a gap in the trees, there's a well, there's like 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: ten Sometimes it bubbles and hisses when it comes out. 35 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: It's highly recommended. I won't drink it. When Cabot and 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: them came in to get the weather and they were 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: telling me it was like hey to drink I said, well, here, 38 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: go ahead and drink it. And they wouldn't drink it. 39 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: In the interest of full disclosure. I've met Josh Fox before, 40 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 1: and I'm a supporter of the anti fracking movement. We've 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: appeared on panels together. In his first film, gas Land, 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: Fox explored the long term damage posed by fracking. In 43 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: Gasland Part two, he details the fracking industry's attempts to 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: undermine the growing anti fracking movement. Josh Fox is one 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: of the most prominent public critics of fracking, though his 46 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: background may come as a bit of a surprise. I 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: had founded a company in Thailand called the International Wild Company. 48 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: I was taken there for an avant garde theater festival 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: right after I graduated at college, and then split with 50 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: this American company. And I developed this relationship with actors 51 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: in Thailand that I was fascinated with, and we made 52 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: a play and that play ended up touring all over 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: the country. And I said, let's keep this going and 54 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: we'll develop international exchange between artists from all these different countries. 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: And it actually worked. I was doing projects, working with actors, 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: learning about their lives in different countries and and I 57 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: did a lot of work in Southeast Asia and Japan 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: and India and Indonesia, Germany, France, and I was making 59 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: new plays based on people's lives. So in a way, 60 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: it was a documentary type of undertaking. Where'd you grow 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: up in Pennsylvania and then later in New York City? 62 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: So I have your family in the business, your mother 63 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: and father, you know, Um, my father's child Holocaust survivors. 64 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Um went to City College when it was free, so 65 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: did my mom. Um. They're both shrinks, of course they are. 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: Of course they are in different ways. My dad deals 67 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: with developmental psychology for for kids, and my mother does 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: had a private practice and then started to work with 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: You're spending your life pulling the covers on other people 70 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: because your parents were shrinks. Well, um, and there you know, 71 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: both crazy. Um so, but they're wonderful, well, wonderful, intellectual, 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: caring people who built this house in the year that 73 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: I was born. What was their connection to that area? 74 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: You know, at some point in time in the past. 75 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: My dad was introduced to that area because he's a 76 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: folk singer and his heroes were Woody Guthrie and Pete 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: Seeger and Dave van Wronk. You know, he was playing 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: I think that this sort of Jewish summer camp circuit 79 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: and my mother. Seriously, there are pictures of him, you know, 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: and they're all those summer camps right there, so he 81 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: knew the area. My mother, uh is the flip side 82 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: from an Italian imigrant family. She was born in New 83 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: York City. My dad was born in Kazakhstan when his 84 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: family was fleeing Poland and fleeing the Nazis, and he 85 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: was sort of born on the road, eventually landed in Pittsburgh, 86 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: and I moved from Pittsburgh to I think the Bronx. 87 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: I have two younger siblings, my brother Alex, who lives 88 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and my sister Oriana, who lives in 89 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: London or either of them in the My my brothers 90 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: and actress a wonderful actor, and my sister is a 91 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: visual artist and painter and filmmaker who does these incredible 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: um pieces film pieces about her life and about the 93 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: history of feminist art. And so yeah, we were we 94 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: all have a chip on our shoulder, I think because 95 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: we had I won't go into it so specifically, but 96 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: we did have a rough time during childhood because the 97 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: family did break apart and things happen, but that the 98 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: house um has been really the only consistent home for 99 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: my whole life, and I always thought of it as 100 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: sort of my twin because it was born at the 101 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: same time. And every time I knew I had a 102 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: brother or sister, they would add another room. And it 103 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: was to sort of make it up as you go 104 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: along where you go to high school. I went to 105 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: high school actually write down the block from here, um 106 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: Columbia Prep. During that time that you were in high school, 107 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: you were Columbia Prep. Was it theater and film and 108 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: media and things like them. I had been in public school, 109 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: and I was doing really poorly. I was getting into 110 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: fights every day and kind of failing, and my family 111 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: was at a really rough moment when my parents were 112 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: broken up and everybody was kind of losing their minds. 113 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: I was in a I was in a public school 114 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: called Wagner Junior High School, where there was two thousand 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: kids and they were all between seventh and eighth and 116 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: ninth grade. There was the option there to go to 117 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: this private school, and when I showed up there, I 118 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: was like, well, what happens here? You know? I was 119 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 1: kind of amazed that they were actually teachers who were 120 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: caring and wanted to educate me, and I ate it 121 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: up like crazy. I took more history classes than any 122 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: person in that school had ever taken. I became very, 123 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: very active in learning about the world, and that was 124 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: an amazing, lucky thing to have happened, the education that 125 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: I received there and in college. When you went to Colombia, No. 126 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: I went to Oberlin College and in Oberland, Ohio for 127 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: two years, and I couldn't stand the weather. I mean, 128 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: it's just great. Uh theater. I went for theater um 129 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: and I spent I've always had this competing interest in 130 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: theater and music um. I played drums in a band 131 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: that was in CBGB's played Scott in New York City, 132 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: and I always didn't know if I was going to 133 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: do music. I was going to do theater. At that time, 134 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: I was acting. So I went to Oberlin. My stepbrother, 135 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: who was a year ahead of me in school, had 136 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: also gone to Oberlin, and I visited him for a 137 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: weekend and I just saw this incredible place and I 138 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: fell in love with it. But then realized, you know 139 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: that the sun doesn't come out in Northeast Ohio between 140 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: October and May. I was done with book learning for 141 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: a while. I left to do something else. I wanted 142 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: to be in the theater, and to me, the theater 143 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: was always the place where you could explore the ideas 144 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: of justice. I mean, there's really two kinds of place. 145 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: There's comedy and they're about love, and there's drama and 146 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: that's about justice. And specifically, what I learned was that, 147 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, there is no great play that isn't about 148 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: specifically the politics of its time, and from Macbeth to 149 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: Death of a Salesman, they're always concerned with this particular 150 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: political situation at that moment if you go back and 151 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: research them. So to me, there was something in working 152 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: in drama that was always relevant about this whatever was 153 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: happening right now. And it would be very, very frustrated 154 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: going to the theater seeing things that weren't relevant, seeing 155 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: things that weren't about um, the collision of the human 156 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: experience and the human spirit with the moment right now. 157 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: Like it felt like in the theater, what kinds of 158 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: things did you do initially that that spoke about? Well? 159 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: I did a play called Hurley Burley by David Rabe. 160 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: This was the first second player ever directed. The first 161 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: one was Glass Menagerie UM by Tennessee Williams and we 162 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: atually we ended up, weirdly enough, premiering it on the 163 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: same night as the LA riots started, and we had 164 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: been inhabiting this sort of depraved Los Angeles world in Ohio, 165 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, LA was everywhere on 166 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: the news, and it was a moment in time when 167 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: we were performing this plane all these it was sold 168 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: out like this, and everybody came in and we were 169 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: seeing all these incredibly violent images and it wasn't that 170 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: they had anything to do with the LA riots, but 171 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: it was this feeling that you got that you could 172 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: commune with some sensibility of culture that was in the air. 173 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: And I think that made me aware of the power 174 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: of what can happen when everyone's in one room together 175 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: watching something that is reflective of what's happening right now. 176 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: And then when did you think that picking up a 177 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: camera and making a film was the next inevitable step 178 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: for you? Well, in the theater, the fingers goes away. 179 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: So I would obsessively videotape all my plays and try 180 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: to do it in a way that you can actually 181 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: watch it, and an adviser just agree with you, I 182 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: don't think it necessarily goes away. Well, no, it never 183 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: goes away. Well in the sense that I have people 184 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: who their memories of some of the theater they've seen 185 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: are greater than the films they've seen. Well, I think 186 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: that the impact is less wide, but it's more deep. 187 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: It's not memorialized, but it's but people do remember. Well, 188 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: when you have to apply for grants to make a living, 189 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: you gotta tape your place. So I got really fascinated 190 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: with how this could work with cameras, and I did 191 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: have a video camera. And a friend of mine named 192 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: Morgan Jenness, who was Joe Papp's literary advisor for ten 193 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: years at the Public Theater, she saw me up there 194 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: and she goes, do you everything about making a movie? 195 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: And I said, UM, yeah, but not really. It's too complicated, 196 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: like you have to plan everything, and I don't like 197 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: planning things difficult. I don't like planning every shot. Like 198 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: from making a play, I'm in the room with new people, 199 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: a certain kind of person to do that job. Well, 200 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: there are other ways to make movies, but I didn't 201 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: know that they existed. You know. John Cassavetti's used to 202 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: just get his actors together with the script and then 203 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: they would go and then they would improvise, and it 204 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: would cut, and it would improvise. There was way, there 205 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: are other ways. Mike Lead does the same thing, that 206 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: there's an improvisational backdrop to their working process. But then 207 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: she said, well, why don't you propose something to Jim McKay, 208 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: who's a friend of mine who's a great filmmaker, and 209 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: his partner Michael Stipe. And I'm proposed to make a 210 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: film of a play that I directed where I didn't 211 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: know them, she knew them. How old were you then? 212 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: That was when I was thirty three or something, um, 213 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: thirty two. Uh So it's pretty much theater acting up 214 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: until that. In music, I was the director. I was stopped. 215 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: I stopped acting. Actors are very particular people who never 216 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: stopped being on fire, if you know what I mean. 217 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: I just wanted to see and develop a vision of 218 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: some kind of work. So I've developed a film called 219 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: Memorial Day because I had this insane experience on a 220 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: Memorial Day weekend in Ocean City, Maryland. Ocean City, Maryland 221 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: being like a beach town where everyone just goes mad 222 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: on this spring break or more of day weekend, and 223 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: I was there Memorial Day weekend, two thousand four, four 224 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: weeks after the Abu Grabe pictures came out in the media. 225 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: And this is a holiday that is supposed to be 226 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: about the victims of war, the costs of war are soldiers, 227 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: and also the honor. Yeah, but I'm sitting here watching 228 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: barbecues and you know, wet t shirt contests and people 229 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: vomiting on the beach and weird, incredibly, what the troops 230 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: died for. I was just in this weird place of 231 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: being so obsessed with these photographs of sexualized torture for 232 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: the camera, and then watching this girl's gone wild thing 233 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: happening in Ocean City, where and men, anyone who whipped 234 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: out a camera they would do the most lewd and 235 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: disgusting thing that they possibly could. And I thought, what, 236 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: this is a weird conversation happening. Nobody here is actually 237 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: talking about the war. Nobody's talking about the soldiers. They're 238 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: just celebrating the begning of summer. And then I found 239 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: out that the folks who were the soldiers who were 240 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: in Abu grab had gone to Virginia Beach the weekend 241 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: before they shipped out, had done all the same photographs 242 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: of just to their friends they pull their pants down. 243 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: They took pictures of people naked while they were passed out. 244 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: And then it was interesting because I thought, well, what 245 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: we've done is we've just exported fraternity hazing to this 246 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: prison in Iraq and not bothered to tell the Iraqis 247 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: that this is the what what we're doing, and we're 248 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: hazing them. And I felt like we were in a 249 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: moment of extraordinary being disconnected in America to think that 250 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: we're so far away and it were dropping bombs on 251 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: this entire country and we're torturing their citizens. I wanted 252 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: to draw that line closer. So I ended up making 253 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: this feature film with the actors from documentary. Well, some 254 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: of it's sort of guerrilla style, and we did shoot 255 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: one scene which is a horrifying scene of of a 256 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: rape that happens in the back of a van with 257 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: all these people cheering on the actors, cheering on the 258 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: people in the back, and we would shoot. We shot 259 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: the whole thing in traffic, and there are people who 260 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: are not actors, who are cars around our van as 261 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: we're heading down the main Dragon Ocean city who actually 262 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: started cheering on the scene as we were filming it. 263 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: And then Um. We took three or four months off 264 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: and trained with friends of mine who had been in Iraq, 265 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: who were soldiers, who taught us everything about, you know, 266 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: close quarters battle and how to dress and all the things. 267 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: And we took the actress from that crazy debautched first 268 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks shoot and then we made ourselves 269 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: into soldiers and then took that whole thing to Iraq 270 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: in the second half of the films in Iraq. This 271 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: is the first film that I've made. The film it 272 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: got rejected from every film festival in the face of 273 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: the planet, and then it got into a film festival 274 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: called Sinta Vegas in Las Vegas, which just happened to 275 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: be programmed by Trevor Groth, who also programmed Sundance, and 276 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: he saw this and it started crazy and we had 277 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: fifty people walk out in the first half hour of 278 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: the movie. It was kind of a weird situation because 279 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: they thought it was a beach movie and they end 280 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: up in a torture movie and it was. It was 281 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: kind of Jacket was a recruitment movie. Well it was. 282 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: It got compared to Full Mettle Jacket by Robert blows 283 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: his head off. Yeah, but it was. It was like 284 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: I we got people stormed the box office and said, 285 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: yes they did, Yes they did. They store in the box. 286 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: I said, We're going to burn the casino down if 287 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: you show this again. This is the box office. I 288 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: don't even know what they were thinking. I'm not really sure. 289 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: I think that it was holding a mirror up to 290 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: a very very dark time in America, and people didn't 291 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: want to accept it. It's hard to make a war 292 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: movie that's not glorifying war. You know, there is a 293 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: formula to war movies, even if it's the most anti 294 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: war war movie. So what I wanted to do is 295 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: make a war movie with no battle scenes and and 296 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: just deal with some of the much more difficult moral 297 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: questions that faced soldiers. What's the next time we do 298 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: after that? Well, then is the second film? You mega? Actually, 299 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, I was at home in 300 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania because I had given the next Landville, had given 301 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: the next two months to Barack Obama to campaign for 302 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: him in the Pennsylvania primary. I felt that strongly about 303 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: um and I watched him lose the Texas and Ohio 304 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: primaries in March, and I said, you know what I'm 305 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: given the next eight weeks to Barack Obama. I'm going home. 306 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go door to door. And when I was 307 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: starting to go door to door, everyone was talking about 308 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: gas drilling. So in in a map of Pennsylvania near 309 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: the southern tier of New York, Milandville is ware way 310 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: way up north towards the border. Yeah, it's right up 311 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: in the northeast corner. So uh in two thousand and eight, 312 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: right at this all the same time we got the 313 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: letters in the mail in about February saying don't lease 314 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: your land for natural gas drilling yet, because we can 315 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: get you more money. And it was the Northern Wayne 316 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: Property Owners Alliance that was saying, you know, join our 317 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: property Owners Alliance and we will get you the best ghastlies. 318 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: And the crisis was almost immediate. Learning what was happening 319 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: when I was going canvas thing for Obama. People want 320 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: to talk about Obama, and they want to talk about Hillary, 321 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: but they really wanted to talk about gas. What's Obomba's 322 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: position on gasts? What is this stuff about fratie? What's 323 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: going on with this fractic So you were you conscious 324 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: of and aware of hydraulic fracturing before that you would 325 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: never even heard of it, never heard You would never 326 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: even heard of it until two thousand when you started 327 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: the canvas and people are bringing this up their piggyback, 328 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: and that onto the conversation about the election. No one 329 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: has heard about it. No one knows anything about it. 330 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: But but fracting have been going on for years prior 331 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: to about in other parts of the country. Well, yes, 332 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: and no, not that we explained that, because a lot 333 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: of people intimate that fracking is a process has been 334 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: going on for decades. Distinguish if you would, what they're 335 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: referring to to modern fractic This is a totally different 336 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: type of thing from what you you might have called 337 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: fracking fifty years ago. Okay, let me go back. When 338 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: you're drilling an oiler gas well, Traditionally those are vertical wells. 339 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: The well just goes straight down and you're trying to 340 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: tap into an anticline or a dome of natural gas 341 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: or oil. It's a pool that you kind of hit 342 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: and you can suck it up. When you're talking about 343 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: modern hydraulic fracturing, you're into a shale play or a 344 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: tight sands formation, or any of the different formations you're 345 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: talking about gas or oil is trapped in side of 346 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: a rock, and then you have to drill horizontally along 347 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: that rock. This is kind of amazing engineering that you 348 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: can drill down and then torque that drill bit and 349 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: sometimes go out up to two miles right um, and 350 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: in some cases now they're experimenting with even now the gas. 351 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: When you say it's it's embedded in these rocks and 352 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: stuff with the and and and tight sand formations that 353 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: so that people understand this, does it exist like kind 354 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: of like the tar sands are words bubbles and pockets 355 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: and pieces of it and you blow it all out 356 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: of there? Or is it in the rock? Is there 357 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: are big pools of it inside of a rock? Or 358 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: how does it work? It's like Dr. Sanderstein Greber describes 359 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: it as a frozen champagne pop. So that you have 360 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: this spreading out of all these little bubbles all across 361 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: the rock formation. But you do this by injecting high 362 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: pressure water silica which they call sand, but it's actually 363 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: silica which is different water, silica and chemicals and a 364 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: mixture into that formation at such high pressure that you 365 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: fracture the rock. You cause these mini earthquakes along that 366 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: either vertical or horizontal well boar, and you're doing that 367 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: with enormous pressure pressure that rivals the cluster bomb in 368 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: some cases. And that in that mixture of water, is 369 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: this fracking fluids? And then why are those fluids necessary? Why? 370 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: And again I'm not assuming you know every detail of this. 371 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: I don't want to hold you up with some geo physicists. 372 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: But but when they have that, they talk about the 373 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: proprietary nature of their list of chemicals, and they can't 374 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: tell you what's really going into the ground. Why do 375 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: they need this stuff to blow through the rock? What 376 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: is what is it accomplish? There are nine different chemicals 377 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: that we've identified. Many of them are proprietary and we 378 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: don't know enough about them. But the ones that we 379 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: do know a lot about our carcinogenic, their neurotoxins, their 380 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: endocrine disruptors are very bad for people At different stages 381 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: of the process. You need to have that liquid be 382 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: at different viscosities. So to carry the sand down, the 383 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: sand is propping open those cracks, if you will, um 384 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: the s The sand is getting in there so that 385 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: it opens up these cracks. Because when the pressures on 386 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: these fissures are open. When when they turn off those 387 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: FRAC pumps, a lot of it collapses back down and 388 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: all that material is trapped inside the rocks with the 389 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: sand is home. Sand is a prop and it holds 390 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: open the cracks. But if you notice, if you go 391 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: to the beach, water doesn't carry sand. The water won't 392 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: bring it down. So you have to thicken that water 393 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: with a viscosi fire, and that's one kind of chemical. 394 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: So you have a chemical mixture there, and then the 395 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: minute you do the frac you want that condition to 396 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: be very very smooth and slippery and have no friction 397 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: at all, so that there are another chemical and presto 398 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: change though this whole mixture becomes like you know, the 399 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: it was just this was subscribed to me as like 400 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: the jet engine valves on a jet engine, you have 401 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: to have that be very very lubricated in order for 402 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: your plans to keep flying. So they have very intense 403 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: lubricants and liquid fires that are down in there. Plus 404 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: you have biosides you have down in the ground what's 405 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: called anaerobic bacteria, and anaerobic bacteria exists without oxygen. It 406 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: does certainly some cases, it's never ever been to the surface. 407 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: You don't know what it's gonna do to you. It's 408 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: also going to corrode your pipes. And if you're drilling 409 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: a five to ten million dollar well, you certainly don't 410 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: want it to rush. So as an anti corrosive device alone, 411 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: they have to kill every living thing down there are 412 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: corrosion inhibitors, the bio size, there's cross linkers, there are 413 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: all these different chemicals that change the viscossi, the mixtures 414 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: you're going down there, not taking any chances when they 415 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: go down there, of course not. And you know, Haliburton 416 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: has said, oh, we're developing non toxic fracking fluids. Well 417 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: they're not there yet. Chesapeake, the largest natural gas coming, 418 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: the second largest natural gas company Americas, has said, very honestly, 419 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: there's no such thing as non toxic fracking fluids. And 420 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: the reason why is if you're spending ten million dollars 421 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: on one hole and that whole is eight inches wide, 422 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: you don't want it to get gummed up. Their priorities 423 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: are not about protecting groundwater or keeping this situation non toxic. 424 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: That couldn't be further from their priorities. Their priorities to 425 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: get the gas out of the ground and make their money. Now, 426 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: you're going door to door in two thousand and eight 427 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: with Obama, and you come to people's houses and they 428 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: are some of them, to whatever degree, are introducing you 429 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: to the the natural gas issue while you're campaigning for Obama, 430 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: when you get bitten by this. So I want you 431 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: to talk about the moment you decided this was something 432 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: you were going to get engaged with, and then also 433 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: talk about the moment when you came across because because 434 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: in my mind, I see Josh Fox going door to 435 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: door even before maybe he's even decided to make a film, 436 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: and people are saying, oh yes, let me show you 437 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: the cisterns of water I've got to have, and oh yes, 438 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: methane does come out of my sake. And then I'm 439 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: waiting for the next guy to tall you see, do 440 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: you get the funk off my property? I want to 441 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: blow your head off because I want natural gass. Like, 442 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: did you confront both all of a sudden. No, that 443 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: didn't happen. Early on in my area there was no drilling. 444 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: So when I'm going door to door, there was no drilling. 445 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: There's just leasing happening. You know, we received those offers 446 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: and I want to know what was this, because the 447 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: gas industry comes and they basically just say, Hey, it's 448 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: no big deal. It's just free money. It's a fire 449 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: hydrent in the middle of your field. We probably won't 450 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: even drill. You don't even know we're there, exactly right. Well, 451 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: you'll never check, you'll never know we're here. And it's 452 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: just free money. And call mailbox money. And in neighbors 453 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: of mine had looked into it, and they said, but 454 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: this is called hydraulic fracturing, and they're all these chemicals involved. 455 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: And look at these pictures of land scarring in Wyoming. 456 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: And I had fallen in love with Wyoming when I 457 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: was twenty two years old. I took I took off 458 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: across the country when the Knicks lost the championship in 459 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: and I never looked back. And um, so this, this 460 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: whole film is John Stark's fault. I just found this incredible, 461 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: magical state of Wyoming, the Grand Tetons, the Big Horn Mountains, 462 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: the Flaming Gorge, the um the incredible planes that look 463 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: like lunar or Martian surfaces. I just spent all my 464 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: time in Wyoming, camping out and doing just falling in 465 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: love with the landscape, and I saw these pictures of 466 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: Wyoming just destroyed to spoiled gas wells everywhere. So this 467 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: was from who from people in the miling who started 468 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: to do some investigatory where they were just my neighbors. 469 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: One of my neighbor was a glass artist. She made 470 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: these little glass sculptures and she had happened to have 471 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: a biochemical degree from Columbia University, and so she had 472 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: been out there. She did all the research. Factor you're 473 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: on the internet looking at pictures of Wyoming, but I 474 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: don't know these people, No, they had There was a presentation. 475 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: She did a small presentation. I thought it was gonna 476 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: be about twelve folks, you know, twelve people hanging out. 477 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: It was four people. I've never seen as many people 478 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: in one place in the Upper Delaware. But I watched 479 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: her presentation. Her name is Barbara Arundel, and she was 480 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: totally didn't know how to use the microphone. She would be, 481 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, well, frackings, chemicals are So I just thought, 482 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: oh my god, this person needs help, needs a little 483 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: media help, you know, say that all right, Well, I 484 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: just thought I'd make a five minute video for her 485 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: of her presentation, and I wanted to find out, well, 486 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: what's who's really telling the truth here? Is this the 487 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: gas industry or is this this person Barbara Arundel I've 488 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: never met before, or or neither. Yeah, I just wanted 489 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this. But I realized 490 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: I was not sleeping. I couldn't sleep. I was completely 491 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: terrified because when you when you live in the woods, 492 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: when when it's that important, when you have a stream 493 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you travel the world, you see how 494 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: fragile these systems. Were you terrified or were you angry? 495 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: I was. I was terrified at first. What I did 496 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: was friends, mindset, go to Dimmick, go to p A. 497 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: It's only sixty miles away. And I had started to 498 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: interview people, thinking all right, maybe I'll make a documentary. 499 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: Everyone made one of mine. Been shooting. I shot with Barbara. 500 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: I got her presentations she did. Five hour into shooting. 501 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: I did. When you went to Dimmick first, That's where 502 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: I went first. And when I arrived there, that's when 503 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: I was changed. Um. There were Haliburton trucks swarming all 504 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: over the landscape. People were reporting their children were getting 505 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: sick there. They were under siege, and they were under 506 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: siege and they were completely terrified. Um and they had 507 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: sold leases. Now again people in the Milanville area had 508 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: been leasing, but there wasn't as much fracking. Now you're 509 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: seeing another evolution. You go to to Dimmick and this 510 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: is there further down the road. We had joined this 511 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: Northern Waine property durs Alliance. We were. My father was 512 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: very interested, obviously in the money. It was a lot 513 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: of money, even just for twenty acres. It was in 514 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,959 Speaker 1: the neighborhood of a hundred thousand dollars just for signing, 515 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: and then royalties there was you know, we're not rich people. 516 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: There wasn't. So I went to Dimmick, said, may maybe 517 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: it's not gonna be so bad. But when I got there, 518 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: I arrived and right on the corner of this place 519 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: called Carter Road, Norma Fiarentino. She lived in a trailer. 520 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Her water well spontaneously combusted on New Year's Day, just 521 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: blew up. Everybody was at I guess church or a 522 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: hangover party or whatever. She came home and the concrete 523 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: casing from her well was all over the front yard. 524 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: It was everywhere. It was like six inch concrete casing. 525 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: And then never started talking do you notice something funny 526 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: and going out with your water. Oh yeah, my my 527 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: washing machine stopped up. The water turn black. Oh my 528 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: driveway is bubbling. And then people discovered that they could 529 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: light their water on fire, um, and that something drastically 530 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: had gone wrong, and all of a sudden they said, 531 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: don't drink the water anyway. All of these people, this 532 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: is important to because this is to me, this is 533 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: among the biggest problems, and that is something like this happens. 534 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: You know, you're you're well blows up while you're at church, 535 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: and where do you go? Who do you turn to? Well, 536 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: the first thing they did was talk to their neighbors 537 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: to see if they were all, you know, having the 538 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: same problems along this one road, and they were different 539 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: kinds of problems, but similarly with their water. I think 540 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: they called the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection first, and 541 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: their first complaints were the d E P and Cabot 542 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: Oil and Gas. The drilling company would show up arm 543 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: in arm, basically in cabins. So for those people that 544 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: haven't seen the original gas Land let alone, the sequel, 545 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: Cabint is the company that was the major player in 546 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: the northern Pennsylvania in that area, so they would complain. 547 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: And when d EP came from p A, they came 548 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: with cabint reps. Interesting that they would come together and 549 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: they would say, oh, your water is fine, and then 550 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: they would go and get them a glass of water 551 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: to drinks. All right, well, if you think this is 552 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: fine for my mother to drink, then you go ahead 553 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: and drink it. And they wouldn't drink it. And then 554 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: you know these folks, And I mean, I don't know 555 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: how much experience you have Central Pennsylvania, upstate New York. 556 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: It's not a particularly the garrulous type of a place. 557 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's a quieter, less simple. It's 558 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: not like in New York where people just talk talk 559 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: talk talk, talk, talk talk. I wouldn't say it's simpler, 560 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: but I would say it's it's less talking. So when 561 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: people are coming forward and talking to it's just a 562 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: different style. When people are coming forward and talking to me, 563 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: you know they're taking the risk, they're doing something out 564 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: of their comfort zone. Right. There was this sense that 565 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do. But the normal life 566 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: had completely been overthrown. And I remember one day I 567 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: had gotten with Pat Fernelli and she had this jar 568 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: of of weird yellowish brownish liquid. She said, take this. 569 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: I said, well, what is it? She goes, We'll just 570 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: take it um um. And she could never keep a secret. 571 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: This Pat FERNELI that's what she's where. She's amazing. She said, well, 572 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: some people they were working on the rickside and they 573 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: told them to dump this. This is the produced water, 574 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: it's the fract ware. They told them to dump it 575 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: in their own stream. And these kids were from here 576 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't dump it in their own stream, so 577 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: they took samples of it and quit and walked off 578 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: the job. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. Where 579 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: are these workers sit down down the road. So I 580 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: went and I knocked on the door, and a guy 581 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: who was about seventeen years old opened the door and 582 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: he had chemical burns all over his face and hands. 583 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: Says no, because I don't I don't pop in the 584 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: door with the camera. I think it's rude. Albert Mazel's 585 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: many years later confirmed this with me. Albert Mazel is 586 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: a great documentary and he said, look, the whole process 587 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: is a friendship. You get to know and then everyone 588 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: else gets to know. I believe in and you can 589 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: get the story and still be respectful of people and 590 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: have decency for people and understand them. And I would 591 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: rush rather make a connection based on I'm a human 592 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: being and you're a human being, even if that means 593 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: the gas industry is going to turn me down again 594 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: and again and again and again. These were people who were, 595 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: in my mind, just had done a valorous act. I 596 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: was going to pop up at their door with a camera. 597 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: I knocked on the door and I saw his and 598 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: he didn't know obviously where who I was. He thought. 599 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: I guess he thought it was somebody else, because he 600 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: came to the door with the shirt off, had red 601 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: burn all over his chest and on his face. And 602 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: I said, oh, um, you know I'm I'm Josh. I'm 603 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: making a film. Can we do an interview? And he said, 604 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: all right, tomorrow. So I went And then the next 605 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: day he didn't show off. And I'm sitting there parked 606 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: across the street, calling the phone, calling the house, calling 607 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: the house with somebody. No, he just chicken out. Understandably, 608 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: he was getting death threats, he was getting stressed, to 609 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: get beaten up by other guys on the rig and 610 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: all this. But his grandmother answered the phone, and that's 611 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: where this starts. To hear the phone calling gas. Then 612 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: this weird voice saying they're afraid for their lives, and 613 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: this guy handing me this jar of strange contaminated wars 614 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: to get this tested. At that moment, my life completely changed. 615 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: This voice on the phone was so full of terror 616 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: and anxiety and worry and no nonsense, no bs, we 617 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: are afraid for our lives because these kids wouldn't dump 618 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: toxic waste in their own streams. And to me, that 619 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: got me because I live right next or right and 620 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: down the stream runs right through my property, and I thought, 621 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: of course they wouldn't do it. But what's happening all 622 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: over Pennsylvania right now? And this piqued my interest and 623 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I realized that this drilling was going on in thirty 624 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: four days. And then I had to set aside everything 625 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: else I was doing at that moment and go out 626 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: on the road and try to try to do was 627 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: this going to happen? You know, do a comparative study? 628 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: Did all companies do this was all fracking like this? Was? 629 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: Was this happening in every state like this? Also, as 630 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: I said, I fell in love with my om and 631 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: when I said, years old, and I wanted to get 632 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: out there and see if it was still there that way. 633 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: Did people from Cabin I would assume, with there's so 634 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: much at stake. One thing that gas Land has proven 635 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: is that that someone like you, or you particularly are 636 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: someone who has your combination of skills and gets incredibly lucky. 637 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: By the way, because these films aren't always take off. 638 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: Not everybody is doing inconvenient truth. Not everybody is Davis 639 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: Skuggenheim or you. Did they ever come to you and say, Josh, 640 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,239 Speaker 1: come on, let's sit down and talk. And did they 641 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: ever try to seduce you? Exactly the opposite. I called 642 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: up the rep, the press rep for Cabin, and I said, well, 643 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: what's happening on these people's groundwater? And he goes, I 644 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: have a book on my death right now from seven 645 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: that shows that there is methane in groundwater in this 646 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: part of Pennsylvania dating back that far. And I just said, well, like, really, 647 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: is that really what you're saying there? Well, there are 648 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: trace levels of methane and groundwater at very small quantities, 649 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: but rarely to the point which you're well exploded spontaneously. 650 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that footnotes about exploding. Well, 651 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: well this was, well, this was but it was really 652 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: like hitting a wall. And this was the beginning of 653 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: my education that they were going to do anything possible, 654 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: whatever you do, to to take not me, because I 655 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: was nobody at that point. I was just a guy 656 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: with a camera in the back. Yeah, to deny that 657 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: you through what was going on to these people. For 658 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 1: Josh Fox, his education about what he calls the truth 659 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: has only deepened. More recently, he's taken his camera beyond 660 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: his hometown coming up. Josh remembers visiting the BP oil spill, 661 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: just seeing this entire ocean in the streaks of oil 662 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: and feeling like a piece of meat fell out of 663 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: the airplane. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 664 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I'm Alec Baldwin. It was still two 665 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: years before the BP spill. Josh Fox was canvassing door 666 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: to door in Pennsylvania for then Senator Obama when he 667 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: began hearing more and more about fracking. Before he could 668 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 1: even think about making the documentary gas Land, he had 669 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: a lot of science to learn. You have to be 670 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: a fast study, and you know that's all it is. 671 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: But I will say this. No one was reporting on 672 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: this at that level. There was no Josh Fox in Wyoming. 673 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: Who else was out there? Deb Anderson filmmaker in New Mexico. 674 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: She made a film called Split a State. It really 675 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: focused on issues of the Mountain West, though there was 676 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: no one who was making a film about this invasion 677 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: of the northeast of this huge So what was happening 678 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: in the New Mexico here it was a lot smaller. 679 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: Same yeah, well saing, same thing, but less media attention. 680 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're destroying the rocky mountains and and 681 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: and the deserts of New Mexico, and there's one house 682 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: per square mile in some of those places, and CNN 683 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: doesn't down the street drinking the water from Vegas, ain't 684 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: showing up with a rep exactly. So there were people 685 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: investigating this, Amy Mall and already c was reporting on it. 686 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: A brom Lust Garden in pro public, it was starting 687 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: to report on it, Laura Legier at Grant Times. There 688 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: were people who were doing this absolutely, and certainly Gasland 689 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: was caught up in a wave of consciousness that happening 690 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: about fracking across the North. So as you move through 691 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: your endemic and you see the cabin. It's it's a 692 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: whole other thing going on there. And when do you 693 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: decide you're gonna make a movie? When do you When? 694 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: When does the movie gas Land become real? And and 695 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: again I'm not trying to be glib, but I'm always 696 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: fascinated by film finance, especially about these kinds of advocacy 697 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: things with these kinds of issues. Is it another phone 698 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: called to Michael Stipe? Where did the money come from? 699 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: There was no money, really, I mean it was really 700 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: about three or four thousand knowledge for the first cross 701 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: country road trip. And I had my own cameras, and 702 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have Matt Sanchez, who's the 703 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: editor and cinematographer, who had a little bit better camera 704 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: than mine, and he said, here, just take this one 705 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: on the road with you. You know, I don't like 706 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 1: raising money. I don't like the idea of it. I've 707 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: never been I just made a movie about that, and 708 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm scrappy like that. I just want to get into 709 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: the driver's seat and go, whether that's a driver's seat 710 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: in a theater rehearsal hall or actually a driver's seat 711 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: as it wasn't with gas And and I, you know, 712 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: I love sleeping in the back of my car on 713 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 1: the roadside in New Mexico. That weird. I'm not weird. 714 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: That's not weird. That's America. That's the way we should be. 715 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: If you go out and listen. Let me tell you something. 716 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: I paid an guy on TV for six and a 717 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: half year. Some kind of guy was weird. He was 718 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: That guy was weird. Everybody loves that guy. Everybody loves that. No, 719 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: it's not. It's fantastic. I wouldn't do it in the northeast. 720 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: But if you're out there in the rocky mountain West Albuquerque, 721 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: New Mexico's in this bowl. And when you come down 722 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,959 Speaker 1: out of those mountains on if you in the middle 723 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: of the night, this warm air just starts rushing at 724 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: you and you you descend down there for forty five minutes. 725 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: You're just on a down and anywhere along that road 726 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: that sound good to Crystal, just pull off. I don't know. 727 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: I could tell you if I was looking at the map. Um, 728 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: but you have studied the geography of feeling of it. 729 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. There's something fundamental linked in my mind 730 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: between you know, being in the backyard, being in a 731 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: stream and p a being out there in those rocky 732 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: mountain lands. The guy playing the banjo is more who 733 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: you are than Mike Wallace. Yeah, for sure. Okay, let's 734 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: talk about that. Yeah. I have friends of mine who 735 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: don't criticize the advocacy of the film. They don't even 736 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: really criticize the filmmaking it. So, but one friend of 737 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: mine said, Josh Fox, the filmmaker is very fond of 738 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: Josh Fox the performer. Was it your goal to be 739 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: in the film and playing your banjo? And like, I 740 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: didn't like being Was that your goal? No? I didn't 741 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: like being in a out of that change, Well, I 742 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: made the first five minutes or ten minutes, and I 743 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: did the voice over myself, just to explain stuff for people. 744 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: Who am I going to call you? I didn't know you, 745 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know Debra Winger, I didn't know 746 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman. Well, what I'm saying is this that I 747 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: did it because I was. I was working on it 748 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: late at night, and friends of mine were like, hey, 749 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. But when we first started cutting the footage, 750 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: we cut ones that had me in them, and we 751 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: cut ones that had none of me, And it was 752 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: just more traditional kind of mash up documentary, and we 753 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: screened those both. We would screen both parts, and we 754 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: screened four different segments, and the ones that I was in, 755 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: people like better Better. People laughed. It was more human, 756 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: it was more alive, and people my friends were saying, 757 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: you have to be in this, so I said, okay, 758 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna be also you being a resident in 759 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: a native of the area, So it's your story, that's 760 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: what they said. It's your story. You know. A lot 761 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: of the voiceovers will be recorded at three and four 762 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and I'm at home alone and 763 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the memories of being in these places 764 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: and this is you know, this was the best couch 765 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: that I slept on in America, you know, um. And 766 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: that's that informs the situation. It makes it human, and 767 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: it makes it alive for me, and I get able 768 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: to be interested in working on it as a human story. 769 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: When is the film finished? About that? I mean not really, 770 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: but when when when do you lock that picture? And 771 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: you said, I'm done, the movie is done? What year? Uh, 772 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: the day before the Sundance Film Festival and when did you? Okay? 773 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: So that literally before we finished it. We when to Sundance. Yes, 774 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: we applied to Sundance with a rough cut, and to 775 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: our total joy and astonishment, we got in. And then 776 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: we had eight weeks to finish. You know, you're in. 777 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: Now you've got to finish by car. When we cut 778 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: an they're half an hour out of it. We added 779 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: a whole third act to it, and then um, we 780 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 1: were We worked on it until the last were in Sundance. Yeah, 781 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: and you went to Sundance And how was that for you? 782 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: I was totally nauseous. I had elevation sickness. Um, there 783 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: were publicists talking talking to you. Your movie was eventually 784 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award. At okay, aside from your 785 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: elevation sickness, described as a as a filmmaker, not as 786 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: a person with a bed with a weak stomach. What 787 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: happened with Sundays, Um, Well, I met the most incredible 788 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: filmmakers and people. I started appreciate who documentarians were. They 789 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: knew how to tell a story, They cared about the world. 790 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: They were not motivated by igo being in a film. 791 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,959 Speaker 1: They were motivated by fixing some huge and they film 792 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: and they like and they accepted me. That must have 793 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: been great. That was amazing. That was totally exhilarating, and 794 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: the audiences loved the film. We went to Sundance thinking, Okay, 795 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: it's this mountain decline. We brought ten people and we 796 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: would go to these cocktail parties where we were trying 797 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: to explain hydraulic fracturing to people in Hollywood cocktail part people. 798 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: His eyes were just glaze over. You know, it's a 799 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: horzon a well board and they're these chemicals and the 800 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: injected the ground. People are like next, you know. And 801 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: then by the end of the festival we started overhearing 802 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: people on the little Sundance Plus going around the mountain, 803 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: uh them explaining hydraulic fracturing trees and they go sideways 804 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: into the rocks. You're not gonna believe, Jerry, could we 805 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: get Brad Pitt to play Fox? Exactly? Look thinking like 806 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: I don't care. So we knew something had happened. And 807 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: HBO picked up the film and I thought, this is amazing. 808 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: This is going to go into forty million homes around America. 809 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: And being having been a theater director, producer in my 810 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: whole life, that thought, the thought that I didn't have 811 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: to sell tickets, which is always very hard to give 812 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: people to leave the house and sit down. On this 813 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: particular day, it was another great believable that we were Sudance. 814 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: But at the same time I wanted to make sure 815 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: that we were touring to the grassroots. I toured to 816 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: two to sleep in cars. Well, that part of it, 817 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: but also I just felt like I wanted there were 818 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: Once you start, there's a lot of places to go. 819 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: So about two fifty cities. Um, yeah, it took a 820 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: year and a half. It was crazy, but you know, um, 821 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: when we want to win, I want to win. I 822 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: don't want to see this happen to debate. I want 823 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: to win. Well, what do you is winning? Well, I 824 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: think it's going to take a while, but I think 825 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: we have to get off of fossil fuels. And what 826 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: the fracking is is it represents another fifty years of 827 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: being addicted to fossil fuels. Fracking for gas and fracking 828 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: for oil is the new frontier for the oil companies. 829 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: What this means is they can get at all this 830 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: oil and gas that they couldn't get out before. Never 831 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: mind that it's completely toxifying the landscape, never mind that 832 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: it's going to destroy all of these incredible, these areas 833 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: that we love. If you know, the oil and gas 834 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: industry has least more land than the total land mass 835 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: of California and Florida combined. I don't doubt these companies 836 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: don't like to be told no. And we've decided that 837 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: what's appropriate to do in America is this uh developing 838 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: world exploitation model. What we've been doing everybody else. Now 839 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: we're saying to us, let's just do it in Pennsylvania. Look, 840 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: there's always been an area that the fossil fuel industry, 841 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: whether it was coal or oiler gas, always been a 842 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: population of people that was considered expendable in the face 843 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: of oil and gas. And in West Virginia talked to 844 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: the people their history of coal. It's like, how did 845 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: our coal get in underneath their mountains? And so what 846 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: we've done here with fracking and talking about shale place 847 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: in thirty four states more land leased than the entire 848 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: land area of California and Florida combined. We've just enlarged 849 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: the area of people who are now considered expendable. The 850 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,479 Speaker 1: people who are now considered expendable, or people who drink 851 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,399 Speaker 1: water in New York City because they wanted to drill 852 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: in the New York City watershed. It's three quarters of Pennsylvania, 853 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: it's half of Ohio. Are they drilling in the New 854 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: York City watership? They are not. New Yorkers stopped the 855 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: largest industry in the history of industry, and so far 856 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: have persuaded Governor Andrew Cuomo to take a step back 857 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: off of the cliff and not allow this fracking is 858 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: going to stay off the cliff. The more New Yorkers 859 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: learn about fracking, the less they like fracking. If you're 860 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: a politician, if you're going to open the state up 861 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: to the largest fossil phil extraction in the history of 862 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: this state, your initials are going to be on those 863 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: chemicals and they don't biodegrade. They're gonna be down there 864 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: for hu They're gonna be down there for thousands, and 865 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: you will be known as that. If I was the 866 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: governor right now, I would be jumping up and down 867 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: because I actually have a chance to make history. Because 868 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: if Andrew Cuomo decides, you know what, we're gonna reject 869 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: this proposal and we're gonna move vigorously in the direction 870 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: of renewable energy. Do you know what a ripple effect 871 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: that would have across the world. Do you know all 872 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,240 Speaker 1: of a sudden that Andrew Cuomo would be an international leader. 873 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: I just got a report the other day that was 874 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: just today, just before walking over here, the Energy Information 875 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: Administration mapped out forty one countries that have shale. We 876 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: cover this in Gasland to how this has spread internationally. 877 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: When did you know that you were going to have 878 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: a Gasland too? And why the Gulf spill. We premiered 879 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: Gasoline one on HBO June. I was going on all 880 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: the media, news shows and everything. I was always in 881 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: makeup and and the story right before me was always 882 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: the Gulf spill. So I had this very bizarre experience 883 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: of being the guy who was always following the golf spill, 884 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: and I thought, I got to get down there. I 885 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: have to film this, I have to see what's going on. 886 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: And our first free weekend was right after the premiere 887 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: was July fourth weekend. So Matt, myself and another camera 888 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: Alex Tyson, and I went down to the Gulf and 889 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: we managed I don't know how it happened. Where it 890 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: was the fourth of July because it was a Sunday. 891 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: We got this sort of unprecedented clearance from f a 892 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: A to fly at any altitude we wanted over the 893 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: oil spill, and they had previously been restricting flights the 894 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,479 Speaker 1: three thousand feet and above, and from three thousand feet 895 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: you can't see anything. Why do you think I don't 896 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: know the so that actually we were all in total shock. 897 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: It was four months into the catastrophe, and it was 898 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: fourth of July weekend, and it was a Sunday, and 899 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: we just got lucky. And you'll see these pictures in 900 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: Gasline too. When you watch gas Too, you'll see pictures 901 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: of the Gulf that you've never seen before, the whole 902 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 1: surface for fifty mile Street with oil. To answer your question, though, 903 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,240 Speaker 1: what spurred me on was it was clear that BP 904 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: was running the show. The oil come in the face 905 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,760 Speaker 1: of the largest catastrophe in American history in terms of environment, 906 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: the oil company itself was in charge. Why do you 907 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: think that happened? Why do you think Obama allowed? How 908 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: does it feel to be the guy who actually his 909 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: introduction to this very issue. He might not even be 910 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: here now if he hadn't gone canvassing for Barack Obama. 911 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: How did he feel that Barack Obama completely abandoned his 912 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: responsibilities to British Petroleum to police what happened in the Gulf. 913 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,439 Speaker 1: I was in shock, and that was the question, though, 914 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: if this is what's happening with the largest, most visible 915 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: catastrophe in the face of the Earth, and they're keeping 916 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,359 Speaker 1: the press out, and they're keeping the media out, and 917 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: we're seeing things that no one has seen on television, 918 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: and we're just just because we showed up, Well, what's 919 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: gonna happen with fracking? And why is it that this 920 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: is the order? It's not all of a sudden it 921 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: started to get rearranged. In my mind, I thought, well, 922 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: is there is there something above the government? Is there 923 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: something influencing the government to such a degree that this person, 924 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: this this man that I was so passionate and supporting 925 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,800 Speaker 1: UM has now all of a sudden turned over the 926 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: office to the all companies. Could there not be a 927 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: greater moment to rally support around getting us off of 928 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: fossil fuels and starting down the road to save climate 929 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: change in the BP Oils Bill. And I was absolutely 930 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: dismayed and confused and horrified and in shock. We got 931 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: off that little airplane and none of us could talk 932 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: for hours. We were just we were nonverbal. I mean, 933 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: having seen the Gulf in the state that you even 934 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: to show it in the gas lane too. You see 935 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: it only for a few moments, but having absorbed that 936 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: we're in a plane having to wear gas masks, because 937 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: it stands out most to you from the whole BP experience. 938 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: You're down there, the people you met on the ground, 939 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: the planes, the dispersed into this, that that the flying over. 940 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: What's one thing that really stood just seeing the Gulf 941 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: in that state, Just seeing this entire ocean in the 942 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: streaks of oil and feeling like a piece of meat 943 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: fell out of the airplane. At that moment, I felt 944 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: like I have to look at this other layer here. 945 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm only seeing the tip of the iceberg, you know, 946 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm seeing the ground contamination of war contaminage, the stories 947 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,240 Speaker 1: of the families. What's happening at the level of government. 948 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: Why hasn't there been anybody helping us? Where is our 949 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: government that's supposed to protect Americans from foreign uh invaders? Right? That, that, 950 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: to me was when I wanted to make this new 951 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: film and say, because this film was about investigating the 952 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: government and our government's reaction to this crisis, we had 953 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, one of the most popular 954 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: environmental issues of the last however, long a brand new controversy, 955 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 1: huge movement sweeping across America. Where was the president? Where 956 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: was the governor? Where was you? Why do you think 957 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: what I mean? I can go old John muron people, 958 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,399 Speaker 1: and I could go well Henry David throw on people, 959 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,880 Speaker 1: and I can talk about how this is just my 960 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: idea of you know, this land as your land. I mean, 961 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: I can really get going on that whole thing of like, 962 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 1: I don't know why people are not more outraged. The 963 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: other day they announced that Santa No Free nuclear power 964 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,760 Speaker 1: plant closed. And I have worked in the anti nuclear 965 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: movement Oyster Creek. I mean, I've been down in Toms 966 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: River all the time and Millstone and Indian Point all 967 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 1: this stuff, and santao Free is going to close. Like 968 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: to fix Santare was six million was the bill where 969 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: California in southern California. I've heard a lot about this 970 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: because Santino Fres closing And when are people going to 971 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: realize that, you know, we need to have I don't 972 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,280 Speaker 1: like to use the word Manhattan Project because that speaks 973 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: like the destructive and war and negativity. When are they 974 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: going to have the Apollo project of renewable energy. Well, 975 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,360 Speaker 1: I hope that santain A free isn't replaced by a 976 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: natural gas firepower plant. Well, that's what they're talking that's 977 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: what they're talking about. They've got to which I understand here, 978 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: is that we were on the track. We are a 979 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: big we have been on the track to replace this 980 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: with wind and solar. We have more wind energy in 981 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: North Dakota, Kansas, and Texas, just those three states, and 982 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: just the wind to run everything in the United States 983 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,400 Speaker 1: of America, including our fleet of three million cars. And 984 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: and what what we're seeing here now is okay, here's 985 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,359 Speaker 1: the line here. We're going on the progress of human history. 986 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: We're going moving over towards renewable energy, and fracking is 987 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,400 Speaker 1: now cutting in fracking, and shail gas is making I 988 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: think this is what they say in the film the 989 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,320 Speaker 1: Last Gasp of the fossil fuel industry. However, if you 990 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: look at what's happened with climate change, and anybody in 991 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: New York knows this from whether irene hits you upstate 992 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: and flooded away your town, or whether you watch the 993 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: New York City subway fill up with the Atlantic Ocean 994 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: after Sandy, we can't afford to do fifty more years 995 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: of fossil fuels, and certainly not frat gas because frat gas. 996 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: Here's the third big lie of the gas industry. They 997 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: have said for many, many decades that gas burns cleaner 998 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: than coal, so it's less C O two into the 999 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: atmosphere than coal, so it's better for power generation. Well 1000 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: that's true, but it's like the witches in Macbeth. They 1001 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,560 Speaker 1: only tell you half of what's true. Like you've probably 1002 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,879 Speaker 1: played Macbeth. I know you played at the public theater, 1003 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: and so what what does Macbeth here? He only really 1004 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: hears half of the sentence, right, He's like, Oh, I'm 1005 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: gonna be the king. He doesn't find out, you know, 1006 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: he's gonna have to kill all his friends, his wife's 1007 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 1: gonna go crazy and commits suicide. He's gonna be dead 1008 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,239 Speaker 1: in three days. They leave that part out, so the 1009 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: gas industry says we burned cleaner than coal, But they 1010 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:41,280 Speaker 1: leave out the part where the methane leakage field measurements 1011 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,080 Speaker 1: are showing between five and nine percent total methane leaking 1012 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: up into the sky out of these gas fields. It 1013 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: was estimated at corneal between three point six and seven 1014 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,520 Speaker 1: point nine. Anything over two percent leakage means that frack 1015 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,400 Speaker 1: gas is worse than coal for climate change because methane 1016 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: leaking in the atmosphere. Methane is a hundred and five 1017 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 1: times more potent at trapping heat than carbon dioxide is. 1018 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,480 Speaker 1: So methane in the atmosphere you have to admit a 1019 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 1: hundred and five times more CEO to the fuel we're 1020 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 1: chasing in order to get off of gas. Oil is 1021 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,359 Speaker 1: even worse. It's worse for climate change in the short 1022 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: in the twenty year time frame. And all we have 1023 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: left is this twenty year time frame to solve this problem. Now, 1024 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:27,320 Speaker 1: Gasland too. When did you finish Gaslane two? Um? Basically 1025 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,840 Speaker 1: a week before premiered at the tray Back and Film Festival. 1026 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,840 Speaker 1: We work up until the last minute, and you know 1027 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: we will make technology you can do. Have you got 1028 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: a gas Land three in you? UM? I don't think 1029 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 1: it's gas Land three. I don't think that. I spent 1030 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,480 Speaker 1: fifteen years working with this international theater company about globalization. 1031 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,880 Speaker 1: I'll probably spend the next fifteen years working on is 1032 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,320 Speaker 1: just a sustainability or maybe forty years I don't know, 1033 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: depending on how long I feel like I've struck on 1034 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 1: something that is the core of who I am. This 1035 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: is not about fracking. It's not about franking. Thank you 1036 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,359 Speaker 1: for saying. This is about who we are the most 1037 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,799 Speaker 1: important thing you know this is about. It isn't how 1038 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: would I how would you work on fracking for five years? 1039 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 1: This isn't about frank. This is about our democracies. But 1040 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: this is about who we are as Americans, who are 1041 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: as citizens of the world. This is about is how 1042 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: you serve your country. I know this is radio, but 1043 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: I have to pull this card out. It says Marcella's 1044 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,080 Speaker 1: patriots for land rights, don't tread on me. And it's 1045 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 1: the snake with the drilling rig going down to the 1046 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: middle of it. This is the card of somebody who's 1047 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: adamantly against the gas industry. His name is Craig Stevens. 1048 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,080 Speaker 1: He's a sixth generation landowner. Says in the back of 1049 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 1: his card. These aren't environmentalists. It doesn't matter if you're 1050 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: a red person or a blue person, or in a 1051 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: red state or a blue state. If your private property 1052 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: rights are being destroyed by the gas industry, you don't 1053 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,880 Speaker 1: have to be an environmentalist. If your civil rights are 1054 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: being if your civil rights and human rights are being 1055 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: destroyed by multinational corporation is bearing down, you don't need 1056 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: to be a tree ugger. This is not what this 1057 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: is about. You can see Josh Fox's newest film, gas Land, 1058 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,880 Speaker 1: Part two on HBO and learn more about his upcoming 1059 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 1: tour this fall with the film on our website. As 1060 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,400 Speaker 1: you see in his films and here in this podcast, 1061 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,400 Speaker 1: Josh travels most places with a banjo. Let's have it? 1062 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,719 Speaker 1: What are we gonna have? I think I'm gonna play 1063 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,120 Speaker 1: an old bar song from eighteen fourteen, and I was 1064 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: with Pete Seeger two nights ago. Introduced Pete Seeger and 1065 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,839 Speaker 1: he said, Yo, I know that song you're gonna play. 1066 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 1: That's That's an old bar song. Was the biggest hit 1067 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 1: of eighteen fourteen, and they liked it so much. The 1068 00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: guy to sing it twice in the bar and then 1069 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 1: clip clop, clip clop all the way up and down 1070 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,520 Speaker 1: the East Coast. They sold the lyrics and you know 1071 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: that song. It became the national anthem. If a bar 1072 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 1: song can become the national anthem, you're always just kind 1073 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,400 Speaker 1: of in the position just making up America as we 1074 00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,600 Speaker 1: go along, and that's what I love about doing this. 1075 00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,239 Speaker 1: It's not about fracking. It's about making up the next 1076 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,240 Speaker 1: version of Mary and letting it not be Exxon Mobile 1077 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: and Shell and Chevron and these people who who come 1078 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,600 Speaker 1: to you with the see and leave you with the see. Yeah, 1079 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 1: and I want to see that happen. That's I know, 1080 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 1: you say, oh, where's the outrage? But what I'm seeing 1081 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: out there And as we go along and tour of 1082 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: the film and we meet these people, this is incredible 1083 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 1: outpouring actually of love and support and of of you know, 1084 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,359 Speaker 1: when people backs up against the wall, something comes out 1085 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,720 Speaker 1: and it's remarkable to witness. So if you're not seeing 1086 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,319 Speaker 1: that in your daily life and go somewhere where we're 1087 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: showing gasuner, the protesting, the fracking, um, you'll find it. 1088 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: It's pretty remarkable. It's so I've been hanging out there 1089 00:54:38,800 --> 00:56:07,800 Speaker 1: so long. B B b U o H. This is 1090 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:15,800 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. M