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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: I just think we have way too much talent, we

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Speaker 2: have way too much smarts, we have way too much

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Speaker 2: ability to shut it down. Now, there may be some obstacles,

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Speaker 2: but that's who we are as the people. These hard times,

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Speaker 2: just let us find our strength.

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Speaker 3: Hey lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well, we do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just be.

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Speaker 1: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow

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Speaker 1: button and leave us a quick five star review. Lady,

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Speaker 1: we are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 1: If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next steps,

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Speaker 1: this is for you. Hey, lady, is Tea here and

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Speaker 1: I just want to invite you to my free goal

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Speaker 1: map like a pro coaching workshop, where I'll share the

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Speaker 1: five proven steps to get unstuck and achieve your goals.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by all your ideas, juggling scattered ideas,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you just need confidence to start, this workshop

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Speaker 1: her spacepodcast dot com and clicking on the goal map

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Speaker 1: like a pro webinar link. Lady, don't miss this chance

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Speaker 1: to build a roadmap that fits your life and set

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Speaker 1: you up for success. I hope to see you there, Lady.

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Speaker 1: We have a very special conversation for you today, so

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Speaker 1: we're just going to jump right on in to the

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Speaker 1: bio and then get into this conversation. Alilia Bundles is

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Speaker 1: an Emmy winning journalist, author, and historian, best known for

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Speaker 1: her biographies of her trail blazing ancestors, Madame C. J.

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Speaker 1: Walker and Aliliah Walker. She is the great great granddaughter

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Speaker 1: of Madame Walker, America's first self made female millionaire, and

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Speaker 1: the great granddaughter of Harlem Renaissance icon Aliliah Walker. A

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Speaker 1: graduate of Harvard College and the Columbia University Graduate School

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Speaker 1: of Journalism. Bundles is the founder of the Madame Walker

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Speaker 1: Family Archives and the author of On her Own Ground,

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Speaker 1: adapted into Netflix's Self Made, and of course, the newly

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Speaker 1: released Joy Goddess, Aliliah Walker and the Harlem Renaissance. Through

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Speaker 1: her work, Alilia Bundles preserves and elevates the legacy of

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Speaker 1: black women's excellence, entrepreneurship, and cultural impact. As a speaker

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Speaker 1: in MC, she has appeared at universities, corporations, and book festivals,

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Speaker 1: as well as on ABC, CBS, MSNBC, NBC, NPR, PBS,

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Speaker 1: and BBC. She has served as an advisor for numerous documentaries,

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Speaker 1: museum exhibits, biographies, scholarly papers, and history texts. Now, as

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, there is so much more that we

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Speaker 1: could say about Alia Bundles and her incredible resume, and

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Speaker 1: guess what it could easily feel an entire episode of

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Speaker 1: its own. Okay, so we're just gonna welcome her to

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Speaker 1: the show. Welcome to the show, Alia Bundles. We're so

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Speaker 1: happy to have you here.

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Speaker 2: So delighted to be with you this evening.

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Speaker 3: Well, we are ready to jump into this conversation. And

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Speaker 3: so our quote of the day is going to sound

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Speaker 3: familiar to you because these are your words from your book,

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Speaker 3: and it speaks it's about your great grandmother. It is

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Speaker 3: time she assumes her place, with all her complexity and

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Speaker 3: dimensions among the pantheon of Harlem Renaissance icons. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to read that quote again for the folks in the

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Speaker 3: back who might not have caught it. It is time

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Speaker 3: she assumes her place, with all her complexity and dimensions

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Speaker 3: among the pantheon of Harlem Renaissance icons. MS. Bundles. When

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Speaker 3: you hear your words spoken back to you, tell us

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Speaker 3: what comes up for you, because I have my own

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Speaker 3: ideas of this, But what comes up for you when

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Speaker 3: you hear your.

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Speaker 2: Words, Well, you know that particular sentence. You know, every sentence,

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Speaker 2: as you know, in a book, is intentional. And after

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Speaker 2: you write and write the reugh drafts, and then the

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Speaker 2: rewrite and the editing and the good help from your editors,

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Speaker 2: and then you find a have the words that are

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Speaker 2: there on the page and the final book and that sentence.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's so interesting to me that you chose

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Speaker 2: that sentence because it is my quest for almost twenty

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Speaker 2: years of working on this book since my other book

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Speaker 2: on her Own Ground came out. I knew Alilia Walker

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Speaker 2: needed her own story, and I knew how misunderstood and

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Speaker 2: sometimes misrepresented she had been. And so this is my

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Speaker 2: I don't know love letter to her and love letter

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Speaker 2: to people who want to know about the Harlem Renaissance.

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Speaker 2: So yes, that sentence really does embody my intention.

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Speaker 3: Oh I am just oh, I'm so excited about this conversation. Okay,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, Terry, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm with you, all with you. I guess maybe

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Speaker 1: there's so many different directions we can go and when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this conversation, so I'm wondering, let's maybe

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Speaker 1: start with your origin story. How did you become the

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Speaker 1: incredible Alilia Bundles we see today, and then we'll circle

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Speaker 1: back around and cross off anything we didn't cover.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you start with the origin story, I mean,

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Speaker 2: my parents were amazing and really encouraged me, and I

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Speaker 2: grew up in a black village in a sense of

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Speaker 2: a black suburb of Indianapolis. Both most of the fathers

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Speaker 2: in the neighborhood had been veterans of World War Two

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Speaker 2: and the Korean War. Most of the mothers worked, many

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Speaker 2: were school teachers, and our neighborhood included you know, doctors, lawyers, architects,

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Speaker 2: business people, plumbers, carpenters, a wide range of people. But

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Speaker 2: we were a small black neighborhood surrounded by a white

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Speaker 2: suburban neighborhood. The schools that I went to were always

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Speaker 2: predominantly white, but that very strong aspirations with the parents

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Speaker 2: that we were to do, you know, be good students.

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Speaker 2: I had that village that really nurtured me, and so

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Speaker 2: that when I went to school and I was a

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Speaker 2: good student, I also had teachers who, you know, who

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Speaker 2: pushed me, who encouraged me. But I always came back

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Speaker 2: to that village of high aspirations and love.

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Speaker 1: Then can we also talk a little bit about your career,

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Speaker 1: just to give people. I know I talked about a

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Speaker 1: little bit in the bio, but I know in one

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Speaker 1: of your interviews you mentioned like this wasn't necessarily your

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Speaker 1: life's work. You had your own career and other things.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll dive into other questions.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that as a little girl,

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Speaker 2: I really got the writing bug got me. I wrote

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Speaker 2: a short story when I was eight years old and

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Speaker 2: one of my mother's friends, who was a school teacher

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Speaker 2: who was working on her master's paper and was doing

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Speaker 2: IQ tests with kids in the neighborhood, liked the story

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Speaker 2: that I wrote and she sent it to a children's magazine. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, at eight years old, I was published and

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Speaker 2: that was that was a big deal before the Internet,

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Speaker 2: when your words this didn't get out there. So I

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Speaker 2: just really embraced this idea of being a writer. I

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Speaker 2: could not carry a tune, so I was not going

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Speaker 2: to be the lead and the school play. But I

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Speaker 2: love to write, and that led to working for the

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Speaker 2: school newspaper and you know, and then to my career

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Speaker 2: in network television news. And I was a producer with

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Speaker 2: NBC News and ABC News about half and half with

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Speaker 2: both places over thirty years and really enjoyed it. It

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Speaker 2: was between nineteen seventy six and two thousand and six

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Speaker 2: when news was news. That's really different now though I'm

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Speaker 2: still a news junkie. I'm still I still pay a

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Speaker 2: lot of attention to journalism and read, you know, have

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Speaker 2: way too many subseac subscriptions and read a lot of

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Speaker 2: things to stay informed. But yes, it really started because

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Speaker 2: I loved to write, and in junior high school was

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Speaker 2: had a school newspaper advisor who had really high expectations.

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Speaker 2: So our junior high school newspaper, which I edited in

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Speaker 2: ninth grade, won national award. So I was you know,

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Speaker 2: I really thought I was a journalist from a or

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Speaker 2: a young age.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so many more questions. Okay, We're going to

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Speaker 3: try and stay focused here. So but so what I

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Speaker 3: want to do is kind of circle back. And you know,

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Speaker 3: acknowledge that you come from a storied and history making

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Speaker 3: lineage and that often truly comes with a lot of

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Speaker 3: pressure and certain expectations. Right, Like you veered into journalism.

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Speaker 3: Your lineage is in a different direction, right, And so

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Speaker 3: how have you navigated or did you even experience certain

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Speaker 3: expectations and pressure based on your your lineage?

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Speaker 2: You know, my mother was so wise, I really think

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Speaker 2: for this. My mother went to went to Howard University,

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Speaker 2: graduated in nineteen forty nine, and everybody knew she was

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Speaker 2: Madam Walker's great granddaughter, and she majored in business and

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Speaker 2: chemistry because she knew that she was going to work

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Speaker 2: for the family business, which she did, and which she

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Speaker 2: did beautifully. But she wanted me to be able to

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Speaker 2: chart my own path. My father had gone to Indiana

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Speaker 2: University and majored in journalism in the nineteen forties after

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Speaker 2: he had come back from the war. But as even

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Speaker 2: though he was we think the first, you know, one

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Speaker 2: of the first black graduates in journalism at Indiana University,

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Speaker 2: when he graduated, he could not get a job on

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Speaker 2: the editorial side of the newspapers in Indianapolis and instead

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Speaker 2: managed the paper delivery boys. And then he charted a

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Speaker 2: path into business and also worked in haircare. My mother

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Speaker 2: was vice president of the Madam C. J. Walker Manufacturing

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Speaker 2: Company when I was growing up. But that was what

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Speaker 2: they did. But they wanted me to follow my passion,

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Speaker 2: and my passion was writing. Both of them were very

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Speaker 2: good writers, and so I never had that pressure to

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Speaker 2: follow in their path. That they really encouraged me. And

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Speaker 2: of course the irony is that you know, now after

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Speaker 2: my career news the story that I tell every day

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Speaker 2: is Madame Walker's story, and I think I would not

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Speaker 2: have been as excited and passionate about telling the story

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Speaker 2: if I had been forced to do that. And I

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Speaker 2: do think that one of the things in writing joy

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Speaker 2: goddess and really developing that relationship and that dynamic between

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Speaker 2: Madame Walker and Allia Walker and then also with my

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Speaker 2: grandmother May is that you can't people do put expectations

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Speaker 2: on their children. And so I'm again fortunate to have

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Speaker 2: a wise mother who let me follow my own passion.

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Speaker 2: But it can back fire if you, you know, really

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Speaker 2: try to push somebody in a direction that doesn't really

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Speaker 2: fit their soul.

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Speaker 1: That's so amazing that your parents were so supportive and wise,

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Speaker 1: and you talked a bit about them being part of

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Speaker 1: the or your mother at least being a part of

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Speaker 1: the family business, and your dad being a hair care

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Speaker 1: I have a question that I've always wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: someone like you, And so I think about where you

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Speaker 1: come from, write a lineage of visionary women who didn't

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Speaker 1: just build something powerful, they built something lasting, right, And

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Speaker 1: so I think about Madam C. J. Walker who laid

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Speaker 1: the foundation, Aliah Walker who carried it forward with the

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Speaker 1: cultural impact, and then you are now bringing it all

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Speaker 1: together preserving it decades later. Right. So It's one thing

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Speaker 1: to start something, but sustaining it takes a whole different

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Speaker 1: level of commitment, creativity and care. What do you think

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Speaker 1: it takes to sustain a legacy and not just start it.

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Speaker 1: Because part of me is wondering, like, did you all

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Speaker 1: have a family talk at the house and you were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Aliah Bundle, She's going to do this part of the business.

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Speaker 1: Like how do you keep that going in a family,

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Speaker 1: And how can younger generations they connected to that and

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Speaker 1: not be weighed down by the roots or just forget

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Speaker 1: it completely. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's when I think about that there was not

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Speaker 2: intention and purpose early on. You know, sometimes things just

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Speaker 2: present themselves because I was really, you know, just happy

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Speaker 2: to be going along my little journalism path. But when

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Speaker 2: I was in graduate school in journalism at Columbia in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, my advisor on the faculty, Phyllis Garland,

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Speaker 2: was the only black woman on the faculty. And this

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Speaker 2: was an era when there were lots of the first

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Speaker 2: black professor, the only black professor, women's rights, reproductive rights,

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Speaker 2: civil rights bills, the doors were opening up for women.

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Speaker 2: I ended up going to work at NBC News because

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Speaker 2: women at Newsweek and at some of the local stations

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Speaker 2: had sued their employers because young women in television would

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Speaker 2: be hired as secretaries and researchers, and ten years later

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Speaker 2: they'd have the same jobs, and young men would be

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Speaker 2: hired as desk assistants and associate producers, and ten years

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Speaker 2: later they would be senior producers and executive producers. So

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Speaker 2: that that door was opening up. But I did not

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Speaker 2: really see myself doing anything that was related to the

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Speaker 2: Walker family. But Phil Garland, when I met with her

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Speaker 2: to talk about my master's paper, she listened to my

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Speaker 2: cliched and boring topics and at the end of the

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Speaker 2: conversation she said, your name is Alilia. Do you have

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Speaker 2: any connection to Madam Walker and Alilia Walker? And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's my family, and she said that's what you're going

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Speaker 2: to write about. So it was really Phil giving me this,

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Speaker 2: validating this for me at a time when there were

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Speaker 2: very few books being published by or about African Americans,

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Speaker 2: not that they weren't being written, but they weren't being published.

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Speaker 2: So I had that push from somebody else outside my

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Speaker 2: family who validated this for me.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, So you were writing about your family from

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Speaker 3: early on.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well? Yeah, And the really the first you know,

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Speaker 2: report that I did was about Alilia Walker when I

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Speaker 2: was a senior in high school, and you know, I

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Speaker 2: wasn't learning any black history had you know, I had

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Speaker 2: a great public school education in the suburbs of Indianapolis,

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Speaker 2: but no black history. You know, there was like none

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Speaker 2: of that. And somehow we persuaded the administration to let

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Speaker 2: us have a black humanities course my senior year. Now

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Speaker 2: this is Martin Luther King was assassinated in April of

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight. I was elected vice president of student

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Speaker 2: council in this predominantly white school that same day. And

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Speaker 2: then the next year there was a lot of backlash,

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Speaker 2: but with a group of friends, you know, both white

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Speaker 2: and black friends, we persuaded the administration to let us

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Speaker 2: have this black humanities class that a teacher was willing

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Speaker 2: to teach. And for that class, I wrote my paper

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Speaker 2: about Allia Walker in the Harlem Renaissance, so I was

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Speaker 2: really more interested in her. Madam Walker was way too

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Speaker 2: complicated for me at that point. She was a businesswoman.

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Speaker 2: People thought she invented the hot comb. I had a

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Speaker 2: big afro that year. I was not really feeling Madame

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Speaker 2: Walker at that stage. Later I learned she did not

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Speaker 2: invent the hot comb. That she was, you know, so

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Speaker 2: much more than that. But at the time, Alilia Walker

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Speaker 2: just absolutely fascinated me. We had almost the same birthday.

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Speaker 2: Obviously I had the same name, and in our house

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Speaker 2: we had books that had belonged to Alilia Walker that

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Speaker 2: had been in the Dark Tower. So my mother pulled

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Speaker 2: those books out and you know, helped me with my paper. Wow,

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Speaker 2: no more than fifty years ago.

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Speaker 3: Wow, there we are today and you're releasing joy Goddess.

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Speaker 3: And so I think the thing for me, as working

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Speaker 3: in academia, one of the things that's always important to

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Speaker 3: me are when doing research are the sources. And you

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Speaker 3: have access to primary sources you throughout your career, you know,

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Speaker 3: and you talk about it in the book of being

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Speaker 3: able to interview people who knew your family, multiple members

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Speaker 3: of your family, right, and having access to important pieces

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Speaker 3: of family history. And so when you think about how

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Speaker 3: stories are told, how history gets passed down in the narratives,

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Speaker 3: like the narrative that you corrected for us, right, that

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Speaker 3: your great great grandmother did not invent the hot right,

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Speaker 3: but that is a but that is a story that

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Speaker 3: has passed down. I know lots of black folks who

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Speaker 3: will repeat that.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: My mission in life is just to end.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and so and so, tell us that that's

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Speaker 3: part of your mission. Tell us what it was like

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Speaker 3: to now be here writing Joy Goddess, and the importance

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Speaker 3: of telling an accurate narrative. You know.

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Speaker 2: This was the more I learned about both Madam Walker

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Speaker 2: and Alilia Walker, the more I learned that the sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, paragraph worth of information that most people

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Speaker 2: might know was about eighty percent inaccurate.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: But I think that it's true with a lot of

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Speaker 2: our historical figures, which is why we're in this moment

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Speaker 2: right now, when it's so important that we make sure

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Speaker 2: that our stories are being told. So it's really up

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Speaker 2: to us to tell these stories. But I, in writing

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Speaker 2: about Madam Walker, I kind of had to come to

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Speaker 2: terms with who she really was. And I was not

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Speaker 2: really as I say, I was not really feeling her

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Speaker 2: because of what people thought about her. And then I

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Speaker 2: read do Voice's obituary about her in the Crisis magazine.

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Speaker 2: I was in college. I was writing a term paper

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Speaker 2: and I was in the stacks of Widener Library at Harvard,

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Speaker 2: and there were original issues of the Crisis and I

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Speaker 2: stumbled upon this oh bit. In August of nineteen nineteen

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Speaker 2: a few months after she died, and d Boys, who

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Speaker 2: was my intellectual hero at that time, had great things

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Speaker 2: to say about her, and I said, wow, you know,

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Speaker 2: this gives me an opportunity to rethink that. And then

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Speaker 2: it took me a little while, you know, in graduate

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Speaker 2: school to actually do that. But finding the voices of

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Speaker 2: their contemporaries has really helped me tell the story. And

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Speaker 2: I think as women, Black women, but as women, they

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Speaker 2: have been diminished, as have many other women. You know.

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Speaker 2: We know, for instance, I to b Wells Barnett, she's

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Speaker 2: now getting her due. Her daughter, you know, finished her

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Speaker 2: memoir so that the crusade for justice, and that was

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Speaker 2: an example for me, like you have to take hold

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Speaker 2: of your story. We know that Madame Walker had kind

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Speaker 2: of been reduced to the hot comb essentially, but through

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Speaker 2: my research, I discovered she was a political activist, she

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Speaker 2: was a philanthropist. She provided jobs for thousands of women.

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Speaker 2: Not only did she you know, doing the hair care

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Speaker 2: products was important because it gave women a solution to

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Speaker 2: baldness and scalp infections that were so rampant during a

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Speaker 2: time when most Americans didn't have indoor plumbing or electricity.

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Speaker 2: But in some ways. For me, I realized that was

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Speaker 2: a means to an end, that she had created an

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Speaker 2: army of women who were economically independent and who were

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Speaker 2: politically active. So I had to reframe the narrative of

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Speaker 2: her that came from, as you know, from primary sources,

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Speaker 2: from reading her letters, from reading papers from other people

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Speaker 2: in manuscript collections, from reading the Black press. Thank god

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Speaker 2: for the black newspapers, because our stories would be, you know,

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Speaker 2: without texture if we didn't have that. With Alilia Walker,

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Speaker 2: I had to kind of rewind because a couple of

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Speaker 2: Harlem Renaissance historians whose work I generally respect, had reduced

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Speaker 2: her to saying, oh, she's spent the Harlem Renaissance playing bridge,

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Speaker 2: that she really didn't, you know, make much of a contribution.

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Speaker 2: And I think some of that was just you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean sexism, like we can read, you know, women

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Speaker 2: aren't playing a role. You know, she did like to

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Speaker 2: play bridge, and she liked to play poker, and you know,

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Speaker 2: she liked to have fun. But she also helped raise

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Speaker 2: money for an ambulance for soldiers in World War One.

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Speaker 2: She helped to raise money to build a the Center

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Speaker 2: for Children in Harlem, and she created this amazing space

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Speaker 2: where artists and writers and musicians and actors were comfortable

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Speaker 2: at the Dark Tower. So I wanted to create dimension

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Speaker 2: for these women who had been kind of caricatured. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's true for a lot of women in

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Speaker 2: the Harlem Renaissance. In the centennial of the Harlem Renaissance,

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Speaker 2: we're starting to get more of those stories.

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Speaker 1: I think that is such a beautiful reminder for us to,

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Speaker 1: like you said, we have to take hold of our stories,

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Speaker 1: like we need to be telling our stories so that

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Speaker 1: we can leave that legacy. I think that's so powerful.

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Speaker 1: And one thing you wrote about in one of your

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Speaker 1: writings is how writing a biography can feel like a

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Speaker 1: form of temporary insanity, the immersion that it takes. And

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Speaker 1: so how did writing joy God is, how did it

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Speaker 1: change you?

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Speaker 2: My house is a mess. You know, it's going to

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Speaker 2: take a year to organize things because I just you know,

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Speaker 2: research after research and files and all of those things,

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Speaker 2: so that it just it takes a lot. And there

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Speaker 2: are I mean, it changed me to know that I

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Speaker 2: really could still write, you know, some prose that sometimes

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Speaker 2: rises to a nice level. You know, you don't it's

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Speaker 2: other people who have reviewed it or blurbed it have

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Speaker 2: been very complimentary, but you know, I mean as a writer.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about you all, but there's always an

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Speaker 2: insecurity when you're you know, when you put your words

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Speaker 2: on paper and somebody else has to read them and

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Speaker 2: are they gonna like it? And you know, I know,

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Speaker 2: I'm judgie whenever. You know, So you hope, you hope

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Speaker 2: for the best. So I feel a real sense of

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Speaker 2: accomplishment that I'm telling a story that I really wanted

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Speaker 2: to tell, that I want people to know, and I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling good about the feedback that I'm giving. You know,

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Speaker 2: I guess how it's change me. I really persevere because

398
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Speaker 2: I've been working on this for a really really long time.

399
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Speaker 2: There I have friends who are like, yeah, well she's

400
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Speaker 2: still working on that book. She is she ever going

401
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Speaker 2: to be finished? And so the you know, the perseverance

402
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Speaker 2: sort of proving to myself that I could, that I

403
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 2: could get it done has been has been important and

404
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Speaker 2: I think and now, you know, I'm just hoping that

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Speaker 2: now I'm going to be able to have some fun.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes you should, Yes, definitely, And so on this podcast,

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Speaker 3: we often talk about the mother daughter relationship and so

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Speaker 3: what can you tell us about the dynamics in your

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Speaker 3: own family between mother, daughter, granddaughter, grandmother, Like, what what

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Speaker 3: were the dynamics between the women and your family?

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Speaker 2: So I'm so this will be a two part answer,

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Speaker 2: So we'll start with me and my and then we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about the other dynamic. You know, as I said,

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Speaker 2: my mom was just great. But my mother died when

415
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Speaker 2: I was in graduate school, you know, after when Phil

416
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Speaker 2: Garland gave me the charge to write this book. My

417
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Speaker 2: mom was had lung cancer. And when I went back

418
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Speaker 2: to Indianapolis from New York at Christmas, she was in

419
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Speaker 2: the hospital and was terminal. But you know, my twenty

420
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Speaker 2: three year old self couldn't you know, proccess that at

421
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Speaker 2: that moment. But I was telling her about writing this

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Speaker 2: and she was very encouraging, and I think she'd always

423
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Speaker 2: wanted me to write this but wasn't gonna pressure me.

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Speaker 2: But I you know, I said to her, she was

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Speaker 2: in her hospital bed and I said, you know, mommy,

426
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Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm finding out essentially, Madame Walker's not perfect.

427
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Speaker 2: You know, there's some divorces or there's you know what,

428
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Speaker 2: you know, what do I do about those kinds of things?

429
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Speaker 2: And she set up in the hospital bed and she said,

430
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Speaker 2: tell the truth, baby, It's all right to tell the truth.

431
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Speaker 2: And that was one of the last conversations we had.

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Speaker 2: And it was really such a gift to me not

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Speaker 2: to have to, you know, feel like I had to

434
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: hide secrets so that I couldn't tell what was really

435
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: going on. And that allowed me to tell Madam Walker's

436
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: story in full with you know, both her the obstacles

437
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: and the ups and downs and the flaws and the

438
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: triumphs and that. So I was really grateful for that.

439
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: But I also think that she had felt some you know,

440
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: some things that she had to keep to herself. Her

441
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: parents were divorced, and you know what, and then she's

442
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: born in nineteen twenty eight, so that you know, nineteen thirties,

443
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: nineteen forties, that's a real stigma. And I think she

444
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: felt that and so she, you know, she said, dealt

445
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: with it, but she didn't want me to feel that

446
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: I had to have secrets now. So so that's so

447
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: I feel really fortunate, you know, and just wish she

448
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,239
Speaker 2: had lived long enough to to see this. But I

449
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: think about her almost every day, I mean, you know,

450
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: just the lessons and the good feelings and good thought

451
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: and the encouragement that I know she gave me as

452
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: I really examined the other generations of women in my

453
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 2: family in this maternal line. You know, Madam Walker was driven.

454
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: She was motivated, I think initially by wanting to make

455
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: her daughter's life better. But they were living in deep poverty.

456
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: And Alilia Walker was a teenager really in her twenties

457
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: when her mother began to be successful in business. So

458
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: she had her own ideas. But at that time, there

459
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: were like not a lot of options, you know for

460
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: black women. The schoolteacher, maybe seamstress, maybe you know, cater

461
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: or maybe, but it was she had to go into

462
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: the family business. And Madam Walker was pretty controlling, even

463
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: though as one of their secretaries, when I asked her

464
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: what their relationship was like, she said fire and ice,

465
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: and she kind of looked up and reflected, and she said,

466
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: fire and ice. They loved each other dearly, and they

467
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: sometimes fought fiercely, so they had a you know, I

468
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: don't know what we would probably call a bit of

469
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: a codependent relationship that they were. They always came back

470
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: together and they had this mutual love of music and

471
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: culture and theater that they bonded over, but matt Alia

472
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: made some choices that her mother didn't like in terms

473
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: of the men in her life and in terms of

474
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: how she ran the New York office. And so there

475
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: was a, you know, a tense dynamic. But I have

476
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: this last letter that Madam Walker wrote to Alila so

477
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: early nineteen nineteen. They were, you know, sort of at

478
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: odds with each other over the business and how Alia

479
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: was running things, and the fact that Alia wanted to

480
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: marry somebody that Madam did not want her to marry.

481
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: And she had two boyfriends, both doctors, both handsome, one

482
00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: was a good guy, one was a bad boy, and yeah,

483
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: you know, no, you know, and so they were kind

484
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: of bad odds. Madam was very nervous about the bad boy.

485
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: So the compromise was that Alilia and my grandmother May

486
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: would go to South America to try to develop the

487
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: business overseas while she got this out of her system.

488
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: And while Alilia was away, Madam became very ill, and

489
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: so Alilia wrote her a letter from South America and said,

490
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: I have decided to marry James Arthur Kennedy, the good guy,

491
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 2: and not Wiley, the bad boy. And in this last

492
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: letter that I have. Madam Walker wrote to her and said,

493
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: my dear baby, I am so glad that you have

494
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: decided to marry Kennedy and not Wiley. I never thought

495
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: Wiley would make you happy, but I think Kennedy will so.

496
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: Madam then dies about five or six days after she

497
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: writes this letter, believing that Olilia is marrying wildly. Now

498
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: should I not tell the end of the story, I

499
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: would just let people read the book.

500
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: Got to read the book toe and.

501
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: I mean that she wants her daughter to be happy.

502
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: That that is how she dies, believing that her daughter

503
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: is going to be happy.

504
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, soul, you.

505
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: Know, things ensue and you would it And it has

506
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: more twists and turns than you might imagine it does.

507
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's like a movie. It's very cinematic.

508
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: When you're reading it, you can kind of visualize all

509
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: the components. But another thing that came up for me

510
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: is I was reading is I was so surpris I

511
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: was surprised to be reminded of like how there were

512
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: many black people who were doing well back then because

513
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: of the stories that we often hear. But seeing that

514
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: she had speaking engagements around the world and she's in

515
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: the Hamptons, and I'm just like, they're living this amazing

516
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: life and they're wealthy and abundant, and it also humanized them.

517
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: I love that you listen to your mom when she said, like,

518
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: it's okay to tell the truth. That is so powerful.

519
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: It's okay to tell the truth. And I think that

520
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: reading that and seeing the complexity of who they were

521
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: as human beings, it also kind of makes them more

522
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: approachable in a way, like, these are these incredible legends

523
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: and heroes, but they're also so approachable and they're complex

524
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: people just like us. Right, And so I think about

525
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: Madam Walker's business acumen and then Alleland Walker's cultural influence.

526
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: You've witnessed empires being built, right, and so what would

527
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: you say empire means to you beyond just the business aspect.

528
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: You know, it is having some intention about what you do,

529
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: but it is bringing in other people, empowering other people.

530
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: That for me, is what the key to this is

531
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: for Madam Walker, that she wanted to empower other women.

532
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: She wanted to help other women become economically independent. And

533
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: I think that's why that's one of the reasons that

534
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: her story endures Because there are still people who come

535
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: up to me who say, my mother, my great aunt,

536
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 2: my grandmother has a diploma from the Walker Beauty School.

537
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: Somebody just sent me a piece of memorabilia, a letter

538
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: that the Madam Walker Club in Montgomery, Alabama had written

539
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: a letter to the governor of Alabama in nineteen thirty

540
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: three telling them that they needed to free the Scottsboro Boys.

541
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: So that sense of political activism was something that Madam seeded,

542
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: and that she had a convention in nineteen seventeen and

543
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: she told the women, I want you to understand that

544
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: as Walker agents, your first duty is to humanity. I

545
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: want others to look at us and realize that we

546
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: care not just about ourselves but about others. And that

547
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: political activism where they a telegram to President Woodrow Wilson

548
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: at the end of the convention urging him to support

549
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: legislation to make lynching a federal crime. And we know,

550
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: you know Wilson was not going to do that. It

551
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: was another one hundred years before Biden signed that bill.

552
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: But those Seeds that were planning helped that the women

553
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: who were beauticians, who had their own businesses, helped to

554
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: pay for the buses that took people to the March

555
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: on Washington in nineteen sixty three. So for me, that's

556
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 2: the legacy that continued through and now it's you know,

557
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: the Barbie Doll and Madame Walker, Barbidall, it's the little

558
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: girls who do their you know, their black wax museum

559
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: pieces in kindergarten who are Madame Walker. So I think

560
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: it is that sense of you know, encouraging others. For

561
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: Alilia Walker, it's you know, it's a very different kind

562
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: of legacy and that I have had to kind of excavate.

563
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: And I think that there's been the seeds of that

564
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: where people have mentioned her in the Harlem Renaissance, like

565
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: they know something was there, but they didn't have the details,

566
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: and now I'm hoping they'll have the details. But by

567
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: creating a space where people came together, where it was interracial,

568
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: where her queer and straight friends felt comfortable, where her

569
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: international friends felt comfortable, were uptown and downtown people came together.

570
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: That was really rare at the time, and she was

571
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: one of the few people who had the homes and

572
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: the money, you know, the places to allow that to happen.

573
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: And her charisma, as one friend said, brought people together

574
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: who otherwise would never have been in the same room.

575
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: And sometimes people discount that, they think that's trivia that

576
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: you know, being a host is trivial, but it was

577
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: being a convener. And I think that spirit is what

578
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: her legacy is. And I you know, and I think

579
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: we see it now. You know, we we have remained

580
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: in a renaissance. You know, Black folks are every generation something,

581
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: we're creating something new. There's a new thread, a new theme,

582
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: and I'm just seeing it all over the place with

583
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: a great exhibits that are art exhibits that are in

584
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: the museums in New York. I just saw something a friend,

585
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: Melissa Bradley, who's a venture capital person, has created something

586
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: new called Black Joy Martha's Vineyard where she's got She

587
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: and her wife have a restaurant that they're getting ready

588
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: to open, and they're creating a retreat for black women.

589
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: So you need to interview them. But I mean, I'm

590
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: just seeing like we we now are kind of three

591
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: generations after the Civil Rights Movement, I mean, after the

592
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: Civil Rights Act, after Brown versus Board of Education. I'm

593
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: that generation that benefited from that, grew up with that,

594
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: and now you know, they're the children and grandchildren of

595
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: the of those of us who were that generation. And

596
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: we've had a lot. We've benefited a lot from you know,

597
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 2: what was called affirmative action. We've benefited a lot from

598
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: the doors that were opened. We have used all of

599
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: those advantages that we were given. And now we know

600
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: that door is being shut. They're trying to shut that door.

601
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: But I just think we have way too much talent,

602
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: we have way too much smarts, we have way too

603
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: much ability to shut it down. Now, there may be

604
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: some obstacles, but you know, that's who we are as people.

605
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: As a people, we you know, these hard times, just

606
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: let us find our strength.

607
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm hearing, I'm feeling, you know, the embodiment of

608
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 3: your great grandmother coming through in your words. And you

609
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 3: know you mentioned the term black joy, and we talk

610
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: about this now as a having cultivating black joy is

611
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: a way to kind of resist all of the negativity

612
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: that and creating space for us to thrive in the

613
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 3: current political landscape that we live in. And you know,

614
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: making this connection that this is one hundred years after

615
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 3: the Harlem Renaissance, which was all about culture and joy,

616
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: and your great grandmother was actually Langston Hughes called her

617
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: the joy Goddess, and so what can you say about

618
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 3: what that was like for her to be that person

619
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 3: who cultivated, curated these spaces of joy in a time

620
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 3: period when black folks weren't supposed to be joyous.

621
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Well, you know, and I think it's important

622
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: for us to remember that the Harlem Renaissance was this

623
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: moment where people with migration was happening and people were

624
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: flocking to cities, and so Chicago had its own version

625
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: of the Renaissance, even La but Harlem was just all

626
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: of the pieces were coming together. But a lot of

627
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: that migration came out of people escaping lynching. It came

628
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: out of people not wanting to be sharecroppers anymore. It

629
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: came after World War One. It came in the midst

630
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: of Woodrow Wilson, one of the most racist presidents ever,

631
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 2: who resegregated, who segregated federal offices when they had not

632
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: been segregated before, who was a fan of the film

633
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: Birth of a Nation, who was not going to speak

634
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: out about lynching. So the Harlem Renaissance in some ways

635
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: was a resistance, this creation of music and literature in

636
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: theater that so we were. Our response to that repression

637
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: and oppression was to come together and create our own

638
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: cultural output. And a younger generation like Langston Hughes and

639
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: Wally Thurman and others like you know, we're going to

640
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: set things on fire. And I think we're seeing that

641
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: and people may not even be conscious of that at

642
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: the moment that they're creating. Like people are just you know,

643
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: creating because you got to create. It's the innate impulse

644
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: to do that. And people may not be thinking of

645
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: I'm part of a larger, you know, network of creation,

646
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: or there's some legacy that I'm creating. It's that I've

647
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: got to express myself. And I think that's what we're

648
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: seeing now.

649
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: So true. And it must be so amazing for you

650
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: to just witness so much, so much change within your lifetime.

651
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: And Domini, we want to ask you a couple of

652
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: questions about you to learn more about you and your legacy.

653
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: We've talked a bit about your you know, the ancestors,

654
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: and so one of the things I want to circle

655
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: back to is you mentioned that now that your book

656
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: is written, you're going to get your house cleaned, and

657
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: then you mentioned fun. What does fun look like for you?

658
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: In this season of your life or what would you

659
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: what would you like it to look like?

660
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: You know, fun is really spending time with my friends,

661
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: because when you're writing a book, you are you know,

662
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 2: it's solitary, and there are just a lot of things

663
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: that I haven't been able to do, and you know,

664
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: like you want to stay in extra day and you know,

665
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: and really be a good friend. I have a lot

666
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: of unread books that I want to read. Most of

667
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: the ones behind me I've read because this is my

668
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: research for the book. And there's a lot of traveling

669
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: that I want to do. I have not done as

670
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: much international traveling, you know. I think now it's a

671
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: little tricky, you know, being an American traveling abroad, and

672
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: so you know, I may have to be closer to

673
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: home and put some of those things on hold. But

674
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 2: that's you know, friends, reading books that I haven't had

675
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: time to read, and traveling, you know, maybe going to

676
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: more movies like I saw Centers Read, you know, but

677
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: there's my spring of movies that I haven't seen that

678
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 2: I've put off, so that you know, just having time

679
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: to do that to fill myself. Been going to a

680
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: lot of museum exhibits, there's so much. I went to

681
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: see the Elizabeth Catlet exhibit in d C, the Amy

682
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: Sheryld exhibit in New York. You know, I'm filling my

683
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: soul right now, and I think that's part of the

684
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: survival that we have to do. And everybody is not

685
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 2: able to do that, but for those of us who

686
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: have that, you know, the ability to do that, we

687
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: need to keep ourselves as strong as possible so that

688
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: we can help others.

689
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: Ooh, I love that. And so as you think about

690
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: what you want your legacy to be, what comes up.

691
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: For you, Well, I want to that my family stories

692
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 2: encourage other people to tell their family stories, because everybody's

693
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: family has amazing people. I happen to have these two

694
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: sort of larger than life famous people, but there are

695
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 2: also other family members whose lives really fascinate me that

696
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: I want to You know, I'm not writing another book

697
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: like this because this these books, these books that I write,

698
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 2: take a long time because it's original research and it's

699
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: you know, verifying checking, blah blah blah. But I can

700
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: tell their stories in other forms, and so I want

701
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: to be able to tell these other family members stories

702
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: to encourage people to tell there, so that I think

703
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: that's important. Another thing that I that's really important to me,

704
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: and I'm doing a commencement speech in a couple of weeks,

705
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: and the message that I usually try to give includes

706
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: this to really do things, not only for the money.

707
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that's you know, people got to

708
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: make money, they got to pay off their loans and

709
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: all of that. But one of the ways that I

710
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 2: had one of the things that has sustained me through

711
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 2: the through the thirty years career network television news, which

712
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: mostly was great and you know, great colleagues, great mentors,

713
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: fulfilling professional endeavors. All of those things were good. But

714
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: like everybody else, I ran up against, you know, some

715
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: bosses who weren't really my fan and who I wasn't

716
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: there fan either, at times when I was ready to quit.

717
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: But I there were two things that sustained me. One

718
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: is that I always tried to have enough money saved

719
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: so if I needed to quit that day, I could

720
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: survive for a while. So there was that, and I

721
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: never did quit that day, but there was but I

722
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: had a plan. And the other thing is that there

723
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: were a few times when I hit a wall with

724
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: a boss or with a situation where things weren't moving

725
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: or I was very frustrated, but I got very involved

726
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: in alumni activities at both my college and my graduate school,

727
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: and that allowed me to continue to develop some leadership ability.

728
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 2: And so while I wasn't why I might have been,

729
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, frustrated at work, I was being fulfilled in

730
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 2: another way. And that volunteer work, unpaid, led to a

731
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: lot of leadership roles, so that I became chairman of

732
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 2: the board of the National Archives Foundation, and I became

733
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 2: vice chair of Columbia's boarder trustees. And I've you know, now,

734
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: I've like I've had my time in lead in those

735
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: really those leadership roles. Now I'm not I don't really

736
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: want to be the first person who gets the call now,

737
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: but I can. I'm happy to be, you know, the advisor,

738
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: the sounding board, that kind of thing. But so I

739
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: think there's a season for each of those things. But

740
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: that's that's what is important to me, That the legacy

741
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 2: of encouraging other people to tell their family stories, but

742
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: also developing leadership rolls and really volunteering in ways that

743
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: you know you benefit from but you're also giving something back.

744
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: That's a great wisdom and advice. Thank you so much

745
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: for that. And miss Bundles, we don't want to get

746
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 1: off in your business. But you did mention I believe

747
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: your age in another interview and I was blown away

748
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: because you look amazing. Your hair is gorgeous, your skin

749
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: is glowing. Can you just give us some can you

750
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: give us some tips? What would you say you've learned

751
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: about taking care of yourself and your body and mind

752
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: over the years, and if you want to get as

753
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: detailed as possible, well our listeners and we'll be taking

754
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: notes over here.

755
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, besides the tummy tuck that I want, but I'm

756
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: not gonna get.

757
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with that.

758
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: You know, listen, there's a thing you know that after

759
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: a point, you know, my mother was really the person

760
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 2: who taught me about skin care. And I remember she

761
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: bought a steamer and we would you know, steam our

762
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: faces or you could do that over this. So but

763
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: she when her parents divorced, she for a while she

764
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: lived with her father and his aunts, so her great aunts,

765
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: who were both you know, maiden aunts, unmarried women, and

766
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: she said, you know, nobody really taught me how to

767
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: take care of my skin, and I want to make

768
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: sure that I'm going to teach you. So that was

769
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: a key from her. I exercise. I go to the

770
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: gym almost every day. I started taking pilates a few

771
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: months ago. I love it. I'm on the Reformer. I

772
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: do a yoga class on Sundays, so I am you know,

773
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep my body together and that helps

774
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 2: my mental state. I'm kind of an insomniac, so I

775
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: sleep with the earbuds and a meditation tape because that's

776
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: the way that I can go to sleep, and you know,

777
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: I do my chakras and think about that. So you know,

778
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 2: those are the things that helped me. I was talking

779
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: to somebody the other day who I don't really know well,

780
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: and you know, she we had run into each other

781
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: at something, and she called me and she said, do

782
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: you know you have time to go to coffee? And

783
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: you know, that's the kind of thing you want to

784
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: say yes to people, but I'm like right now, I'm

785
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: just like right now, I'm just trying to get through

786
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: the to do list. So no, you know, I'm sorry,

787
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't do that. And she said something

788
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: to me, Well, you know, I tell my students that

789
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 2: they need to make sure they take time to breathe,

790
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I am taking time to breathe.

791
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: Believe me.

792
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 2: I am doing yoga, I am doing pilates, I am

793
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 2: taking time to breathe. But I still have all this

794
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: other stuff that I have to do.

795
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 3: Wow, thank you, Thank you for reinforcing this notion of

796
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 3: like taking care of yourself amidst all the things that

797
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 3: we have going on. And I don't have a steamer

798
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 3: at home right now, but you're making me think about

799
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: going to put my face over that stove. I preserve this,

800
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 3: preserve my youthful skin.

801
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: Well, you know, and I will say I for for

802
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: a while, I don't know, maybe for a decade or so.

803
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 2: I went I got a facial every month, and it

804
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: was not because my skin was in bad shape, but

805
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: I just loved the pampering. And I think that's, you know,

806
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: that's very important. And I'm you know, and I have

807
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: to show so here see my nails. This is the

808
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: first time I've had gail nails.

809
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: What do you think about it?

810
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, but I have kind of my nails

811
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: are not great. My natural nails are not great. But

812
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: I I know that I'm going to be signing books,

813
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: and I was doing a little video, a little promotional

814
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: video for the publisher, and I was gonna I was

815
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: handling some of the Walker memorabilia, and I'm like, I

816
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: can't really be a camera and have monthly nails. So

817
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 2: that is that's kind of now a new another little

818
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: thing I've added. So it's let me see, let me

819
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: see your nails, let me see, let me see. I

820
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: know you all have nice nail see. I knew you

821
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 2: did so I so this is new, this is new

822
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: for me. These are actually too long. And so when

823
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: I get you know, when I get them redone in

824
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: another week or so, it's going to be a little shorter.

825
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: But I I was in New York and doing an event,

826
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: and I knew I wanted to get my nails done.

827
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: And so there was a sister who had like really fancy,

828
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: you know, hand painted all marbled nails, and she said, well,

829
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 2: I will, I will check out some nail salons for

830
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: you and pick one for you. So I went to

831
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: a nail salon at one hundred and twenty fifth and

832
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: Madison got there at ten o'clock, wasn't open yet. And

833
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: then this van drives up at a bunch of people

834
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: get out of the van. I'm like, oh, this is

835
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: kind and all of the you know, but they and

836
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: all of the nail technicians were men, and so that

837
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: was unusual. And so you know, I was trying to

838
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: communicate with the young man and he was not He

839
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: didn't really speak a lot of it English, and I obviously

840
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: do not speak Korean. So we were trying to communicate.

841
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: And I had picked almond, the almond shape, so that's

842
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 2: because that's what looked nice. I thought that looked nice.

843
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: So he's doing this and I'm like, my nails are

844
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 2: out to here, and I'm like, you know, I'm saying

845
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 2: that too long too, and he's like, not almond, not almend.

846
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't care, it's too long. So he

847
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: cut them back, but they're still too long. But I

848
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: didn't have you know, I didn't have the ability to

849
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 2: really communicate well with him. So now I'm you know,

850
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: there's a nail salt next to my pilates studios. So

851
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: I went in there the other day and they're gonna

852
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: hook me up.

853
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: I thought, how that is too And then know the

854
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: too long You're just like, oh gosh, I gotta get

855
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: that's why my mind is so short now, so we

856
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: totally get it.

857
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: But this can have such step up.

858
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: Exactly why are you doing household stuff like I need

859
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: to hire someone to do everything about when they had

860
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: the long nails. But this was such an amazing conversation.

861
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the work that you do.

862
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: Thank you for what you've done, and we definitely want

863
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: to make sure that people can go get their copy

864
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: of the book. So please just let folks know how

865
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: they can support. If there are any next steps you

866
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: want them to take, we'd love for you to share

867
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: that now because this was so amazing.

868
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: Thank you and what a great conversation. I am so

869
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 2: happy to meet you all. You know the things that

870
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: people can do. Follow me on social It's at Alilia

871
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: Bundles a l E l I A Bundles and I'm

872
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: on all those spaces, though my TikTok game is not

873
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 2: so great yet, but a lot on Instagram and blue

874
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 2: Sky and threads, so that's and Facebook, so I'm there.

875
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: Just pre order the book if you go to my

876
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: website at Alilia bundles dot com there's a link, but

877
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: also on my social there are links for preordering, but

878
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: preordering is really bookshop dot Org, Turtulla, Amazon, your local

879
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: you know, wherever you buy books online or in a

880
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: store and ask to order it. That makes a huge difference.

881
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: The preorders do come to my eve events that the

882
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: calendar is posted on my social I'm in New York, Boston,

883
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: d C, Philadelphia, Martha's Vineyard on July thirtieth, if anybody

884
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: is there, and then I'm you know, I'm looking for

885
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: other opportunities. I think Miami, La Atlanta, Chicago. So you know,

886
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: if you want to invite me or your bookstore wets

887
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: to invite me, please do.

888
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

889
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 3: Hey lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her

890
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 3: Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state

891
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 3: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so,

892
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 3: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

893
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: That's D R D O M I N I q

894
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 3: U E B R O U S S A r

895
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 3: D dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.

896
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 3: I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning

897
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while this podcast is

898
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 3: all about healing, empowerment, and resilience. It's not a substitute

899
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: for therapy. If you or someone you know need support,

900
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 3: check out resources like Therapy for Black Girls or Psychology Today.

901
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 3: If you love today's episode, do us a favor and

902
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: share it with a friend who needs some inspiration, or

903
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 3: leave us a quick five star review. Your support means

904
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: the world to us and helps keep this space thriving.

905
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me. My actions

906
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: are aligned with purpose leading to continuous transformation. Chep Thriving

907
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: Lady and tune in next Friday for more inspiration from

908
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: cultivating her Space. In the meantime, be sure to connect

909
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: with us on Instagram at her Space Podcast