WEBVTT - Surviving R. Kelly: The Aftermath (Part 1) 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.480 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.840 Red Table Talk podcast, all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.000 Facebook watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.120 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:24.799 on Apple Podcasts. All right, and five four three, Hello 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.360 R T T family, This is a special edition of 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.640 Red Table Talk. And like many of you willow gamming. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.720 Myself of we watched Surviving R. Kelly on Lifetime and 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.120 I called my producer and I said, we have to 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:43.080 do a Red Table Talk about this right away. It's 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.960 been hard for us to think about anything else. And 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.680 if you haven't seen the docuseries, please take a look 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.840 at this trailer. There's a difference between R. Kill and 0:00:54.920 --> 0:01:03.800 Robert Our kids, this faun, laughing, loving guy. But Robert 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.600 is the devil. Is the devil is? R Kelly is 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.160 at the top of the charts, but he may be 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.559 in for a fall. He was arrested today on twenty 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.680 one counts of child pornography. Kelly is accused of videotaping 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.000 himself having sex with an underage girl, taking advantage of 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:23.560 miners will not be tolerated. Jurors found him not guilty 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.760 on all charges. With r Kelly's acquittal in two thousand 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.480 and eight, the women he allegedly abused continued to be ignored, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.640 but in lifetime surviving r Kelly, dozens of women came 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.080 forward to tell stories of horrific sexual and emotional abuse. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.399 And this time millions of people are listening. I can't 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.760 take another day. I can't do this anymore. One of 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.920 r Kelly's hidden relationships was with our beloved Aliyah, an 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:49.840 R and B singer, who he met when she was 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.440 just twelve he was twenty four, a secretly married when 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.240 she was only fifteen. Documents were forged to say she 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.440 was eighteen. Reaction to the show has been explosive, many 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:06.360 supporting the women and many viciously attacking them. I've never 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:16.919 introduced her to him, That never introduced oh man. So 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.679 one of the survivors, Lisa Van Allen, is gonna join 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.959 us in a minute. I thought it was really important 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.920 to watch it as mother and daughter, and then I 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.120 was calling you, like, damn, have you you know? But 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.040 I have to tell you. I felt a lot of things. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.920 I had a lot of feelings about it, one being 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.640 I was like, man, how complicit we all have been? 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:44.120 That really broke my heart, Like to really think about 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.239 we we ignored it. I think that's been very heartbreaking 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.280 for me, just how harsh the reactions have been, and 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:58.400 specifically I've seen black women being very harsh towards the survivors. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.680 I don't know how we can expect to point fingers 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.440 at other communities that might come in and violate us. 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.760 We go out in March and we do all these things, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.720 but then we're not willing to look at ourselves and 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:16.280 we're not willing to protect our own. We have to 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:21.240 start examining the self hatred. Let's just talk about children 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.680 who have been raped and molested, okay, and how the 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.960 reaction has been, you know, things like they were just 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.280 hot ass little girls, they didn't have no business, they 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:37.400 just gold diggers. Those kinds of reactions shut people down, 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:43.120 people who are in your home, right, you feel me. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.760 So I look at this as like a lot of 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.800 times the abuses coming from family member, somebody close to 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.080 the family or close family friends. Let me tell you, 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.400 out of the people that I know, I've never heard 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:01.520 once that it was a stranger. Remember he was himself 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.400 a victim of abuse. And let me tell you something. 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:09.560 And so if you don't protect your children and give 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:17.320 them the freedom to talk, then this is what you create. 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.400 So a lot of people are talking about we got 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.960 to protect our girls, but we have to protect our 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.560 sons as well. It's it's we have to protect our children. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.839 But I think that psychological manipulation that the women went 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:35.080 through is really really hard for people to accomplishend. When 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.159 I first heard about some of the women that were 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.640 held captive, I just felt like, well, they're adults and 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:48.240 you know there they should just leave, just leave em prison. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:54.480 But it's trying to really understand um, that psychological manipulation 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.479 that goes on. For you and I game, if we 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.360 think about it like this, you and I both have 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.040 been in some relationships that we we shouldn't have been in, right, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.280 but we kept going back. So put put a hundred 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.919 on that. Right. If you really think about it that way, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.560 you can get it. Not that I can get it, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.360 but just the degree of nothing that we went through 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.960 even compared. So I'll tell you one of the honey 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.000 traps for me, the you ain't cycle, where it's the 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.360 you have somebody that breaks you down and then comes 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.560 back to you and they're like I can't live without you. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.200 I can't believe you know that my everything, And then 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.200 the endorphins in my mind and those highs and lows, 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.680 and even just being addicted to that cycle. Yeah, I've 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.279 been there. I've been addicted to that cycle of knowing 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.680 that this person is not treating me well. But then 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.760 you get so low and then he comes in with 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:59.880 his sweetness and you're like, oh, I never, We'll go 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.040 for you. Well, maybe it's just I just never. May 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.440 I just felt like from me, I was just being stupid. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.640 And the idea of having having a you know, a 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.680 superstar point you out where most of us come from 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.280 backgrounds where we feel neglected, we feel like we haven't 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.440 been loved, and other self worth comes from that attention 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.640 and then just the cycle of terror. And I have 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.679 to say that I feel some kind of way about 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.480 all these people that were around him that were just 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:38.640 complicit and actually assisting men. Yeah, but you know, back 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.960 in the day, let me tell you something, the black 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.679 community was not built like that. You know, like you could, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.680 like if somebody was acting up in the neighborhood, you 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.840 could count on Miss Betty down the street. She's gonna 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:56.160 tell your mama the guys, They protected their neighborhood, They 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.839 protected the girls growing up in the neighborhood. I really 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.760 felt like it was important that Willow and I watched 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:09.880 together because I felt like it was a teachable moments. 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.840 Exactly what was it about it that was important for 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.000 you and I to watch it together. What made me 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:23.119 start crying was I had listened to Aaliyah and had 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.880 I had known about r Kelly and listened to his 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.200 music when I was super young, and it was it's 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.800 so strange because I had an inkling that he was 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.240 slightly sussed, but I never like, it just hit me 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.480 so hard when I was watching it, like, oh my god, 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.920 like I was listening to this when I was a kid, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.800 like and then seeing him in the back of a 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.560 jing nothing but a number album cover I had, it 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.920 was like my, like something from my childhood was just debased, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.800 like like why is he just in the back of 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.240 the album cover just lurking. That's weird, like and we're 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.720 just like all no ane, but enough, like it's slipped 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.440 under my radar. You and will did that bungee jump 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.480 and we put I believe I can fly, yeah, And 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:16.800 that just goes to show you didn't. But see see 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.880 how things will fly. But I didn't like was it 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:24.880 on the line? We we it was on you know, Instagram, Instagram, 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.800 and but see how it you'll forget. But that's how 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:34.520 we are all complicit because guess what, how can you forget? Yeah, right, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.920 right right? How can you forget and be so unaware 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.320 you can't forget? Yeah, you know that's why we should 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.240 have all been screaming from the rack, what's going on 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.440 with the Celia thing? Exactly? Black community, what's going on? 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:53.319 But here's the other conflict. We have such a conflicted 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:59.000 relationship to the law, to the media, to feeling as 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:04.319 though authority is attacking our men, which they and they 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.080 still do. You know what was deep that jor on 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.880 Lifetime on the on the juror, that was like I 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.120 didn't like how they were dressed. I didn't. I just 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.640 didn't like them. Yeah, I just didn't believe them, the woes. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.200 I know, it sums ridiculous the way they dressed, the 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.160 way they act. I didn't like them. I voted again, 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.880 I disregard at all what they said. I don't know. 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.040 If I asked you what you liked, ye look at 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:37.319 the evidence exactly all right, we have a very special 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:42.960 guest today, Lisa Van Allen. Lisa met r Kelly at 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.800 a music video shoot in Atlanta at the tender age 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:51.440 of seventeen. I heard about Rob's reputation about him dating Aliyah, 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.920 but I didn't assume that he liked younger girls. I 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.400 just thought at that moment, I just thought he liked me. 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.000 I knew he was at least thirty one, so I 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.760 thought when I said seventeen that he'd be like, you know, 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.800 like that was gonna be the deal breaker. But um, 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.040 it wasn't. Pretty early on, he kind of introduced you 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:18.400 to everything that he was into. The first time Robert 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.080 had me do sexual acts with him and another female, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.840 he actually told me it was going to be his 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.880 first time and he wanted to do it with me. 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:33.520 Robert would film our sex acts sometimes he would never 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.480 ask me if it was okay to be filmed, but 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.840 he never hit the camera or anything like that. Once 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.760 we did the threesome, it became more frequent. Then he 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.400 started introducing me to other young women. Most of the 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.800 threesomes were with a fourteen year old girl who Lisa 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.920 thought was sixteen. One of the tapes became key evidence 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.760 in Roberts two thousand and eight trial. Lisa testified against him, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.720 but he was acquitted. Still, she was determined that her 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.800 story it would be heard. In Surviving r Kelly finally 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:10.880 has people listening. There she is. He nice to meet you, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.760 so nice. We're so happy to have you here. Yeah, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.640 you really are happy to be here and welcome. Come on, yeah, 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.360 come on and sit down. How are you feeling today? 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:30.240 You look beautiful series. How are you like? It's been 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:35.760 so explosive, you know, in great ways and then not 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.240 so great ways. I feel I feel blessed, like I 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:44.760 feel like we didn't expect it to be this powerful, 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.360 this impactful, like because you know, I came out in 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:52.200 two thousand and eight and nobody heard me. Do you 0:11:52.240 --> 0:12:03.160 feel like a relief, like a weight off of your shoulders? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:10.560 It's awesome to be yes, And I'm so happy that 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.120 you guys could be brave enough to do it this way. 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.560 And then lifetime is brave enough and that, you know, 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:22.120 because you guys deserve it, and I and just so 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:30.240 start thinking, I'm sorry, you can get it sooner. I'm 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.880 not good. I'm not gonna cry, I said, Oh I said, 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.000 I said, I love their show. Red Table Talk is 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.600 so real and raw. And I've been before this, even 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.800 the show even aired or anything. I've been saying, I 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:50.520 want to talk to Jada. I know she'll understand. Yeah, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.200 I want to talk to Yeah. So it's just a 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.240 blessing to be here and be able to talk to 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.520 you guys, and I mean the world. The reaction has 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.560 been so different this time around, you know what I mean. So, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.760 I mean I feel I feel blessed, and I feel 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.760 like I'm a vessel, you know what I mean, to 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.679 speak out for other young girls, because I mean, we've 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.320 always been told, you know, you don't talk about that. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.520 You don't tell our business, you know, like, don't tell 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.720 our business. You know, Like even my mom had a 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.440 hard time dealing with this, you know what I mean, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.439 because you know, because we have to really deal with ourselves. 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.800 You know, her reaction on how she felt about her role, 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.280 you know, my role. You know, everybody has their own 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.600 things to deal with. I had to do it for 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.720 me for other young girls, you know what I mean, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.400 Like someone has to have that conversation that nobody wants 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.400 to have, Like you can't worry about how you look, 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.000 you know what I mean, We got to put it 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.560 on the line, put it out there. That's what I 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:49.120 felt like, I did you have there was me before 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.800 me too, because in two thousand and eight, there weren't 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.000 any movements. You know, nobody else was talking about it. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.600 So and I came out, you know, hoping that I 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.600 could help the victims and the good girl on the tape, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.079 you know what I mean, because I knew her family 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.880 wasn't going to speak, so I felt like somebody has 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.520 to stand up, like somebody. I mean, they threatened my life. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.000 You know, there were was a lot I was dealing with. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.080 I was pregnant, but you know, you can't let that 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.640 stuff stopping. And people need to remember that, Lisa, you 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.880 wore a child on that tape, and I think people 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:29.200 got that twisted. Those were two minors exactly when he 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.320 first told me he had never had a threesome, and 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.160 I felt like I needed to do that for him 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.360 because we were together and I was living with him, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.120 and and I did it, and then he wanted another 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.560 one and another one. Then that's when it was like, uh, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.800 like I may have been tricked here. When I started 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.920 noticing that he was a liar and a manipulator. Was 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.200 when I found out the girl was younger, and I'm like, well, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.320 why wait, why would he do that? He know I 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.480 wouldn't admit then things like that, or when I started 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.080 really questioning him because the threesomes, even though I didn't 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.320 want him and I didn't like him, because he wanted him, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.680 I would back then, I would have done him, you 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:08.840 know what I mean. And I hate to say that. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.760 I'm not saying with a young girl because I would 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.280 not have, but I would have cried and did you 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.160 know back then, just because he wanted to do them. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.680 And that's sad too. I have a thing now that 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.560 I say to young girls or girls in general, love 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.640 yourself first, because that was the problem. I was putting 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.280 his feelings before my I didn't care that it bothered me. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.280 I didn't care that I cried and I was upset 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.480 and that I had to share someone I loved with 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.480 other women. I wanted him to be happy, so I 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.400 would I would say that, I tell my daughter that 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.440 love yourself first. Yeah, And you know, we all, we 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.440 all go through that in different levels. He's a master manipulator. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.280 He says what he needs to say to get what 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.600 he needs done. Yeah, yeah, he knew my whole background. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.160 He knew that I was in foster care. He knew 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.360 that I was adopted with a single month my my 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.440 adoptor mothers. Pause right there. I didn't know that you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.840 were in foster care until six. Wow, GI knew all 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.800 about that. So you were in foster care until you 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.560 were six and then you were adopted? Right? And did 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.680 you any abuse and while you were in foster care 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.760 he knew that as well? Got it? Yeah? Got it? 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.400 Do you think in any way he tried to push 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.240 on those buttons for you, like try to bring back 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.120 those emotions and that insecurity, he would do things like 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.880 he'll ask you, um, what about you would you like 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.600 to change? And then he'll pretend like he's the night 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.720 in shining armor. It's going to fix that for you. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.400 Or if you got in trouble for something, or one 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.560 time I had a situation where I was allowed to 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.520 go home and I got into it with some girls. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.680 I had a case. He made it go away. So 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.920 you get what I mean. You got to protect me. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.920 I take care of you, You take care of me. Well, 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.880 was that moment when you thought to yourself enough? There 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.160 were a lot of times where I came and went 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.600 because you know, with the abusive situations, you'll leave and 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.679 go back, leave and go back. So I did a 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:16.000 lot of that. But personally, once I got to the 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.199 point where it was just like sickening, like kind of 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.720 like just dealing with him or being around him and 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.359 seeing that the girls were still nineteen and twenty year 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.480 and you're late forties almost, you know, it was sickening. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.160 Over time, it got worse and worse, and I got 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.280 older and mature, and I knew more about him and 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.880 more about and he didn't want help. That's the thing. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.080 Like in the beginning, people say, well, once you found 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.639 out she was fourteen, why did you turn him in? 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.639 Because I loved him. I wanted to help him get better, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.720 because that's how how we work as far as love. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.800 I love, I'll trying to figure out how to help 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.919 you and what I can do to save you. And 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.520 then once I realized he couldn't be saved, he didn't 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.160 want to be said saved. He would tell me things 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.720 like my mama told me, if you love a man, 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.960 you don't try to change him. You know. The order 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.240 I got, the more it's like, boy, that's a b Yeah, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.960 you just you just messed up. So once you realize that, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:13.960 you know you're a part of that, you know it's 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.600 and it's not okay and it's not acceptable. And I 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.359 had to. I had me a daughter and I didn't 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.600 want her around him, you know what I mean. I'm like, 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.600 you know, because at first, you know, I wanted to 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.680 be with this man, you know, like, but I can't. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.520 I can't be with nobody like that, Like I can't 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.920 trust you around my child, like no, But she went 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.640 back that I actually been with her in a relationship 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:42.720 briefly and he was abusive. He but he was abusive, 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.560 like beating me up like that. I had to get 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:51.480 away and I didn't have anyone to call, come on 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.960 to Chicago. They got me there. Then he thought that 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.600 I think he thought she was his because he wanted 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.320 me to do a fraternity test. He I guess he 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.760 thought because I an abortion by with his first baby, 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.520 that I ran away when I got pregnant the second 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.800 time to have a baby. But it wasn't that, you know, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.280 But that's just what he thought because he's thinking, it's 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.960 no way she got pregnant by someone else, Like, but 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.919 you know. So I went there, and my big issue 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.840 with him was the fact that he liked young girls. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.120 But he specifically kept telling me to buy my daughter dresses. 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.719 Every time I would put her in like leggings and 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.520 things like that. We'd be sitting in the studio, she'd 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.199 be on my lap and He'll be like, uh, well, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:31.800 ain't I don't know to go get her dress? Give 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.720 me every time he gave me three dollars for a dress, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.280 and I'm looking like, why does he care? That's not 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.199 his kid? Why does he keep on it? So I 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.760 just I could just my instincts was like saying this, 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.880 say I'm not feeling it, like I didn't get it. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.119 That is a really um interesting to know in regards 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:56.159 to the history of your own abuse and how it 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.280 started so young, and how it seemed as though the 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.520 cycle kind of continued, and as we were talking about before, 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.440 the necessity to be able to tell someone be believed, 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.040 you know what I mean, in order to stop the cycle. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.240 And I never told anyone until I got with him. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.439 He's the first person I told about my abews like 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.480 my my I mean, we had this thing um in 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.040 her bathroom. She would keep magazines in the bathroom with 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.320 pictures and I would flip all her magazines over because 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.560 I didn't want the faces looking at me because one 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.720 of my abusers would become in the bathroom while I 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.320 was in there. So mentally and she was like, why 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.720 does she keep this girl keep flipping my magazines over it? 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:43.520 But she never could figure out that. Mentally for me 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.679 as a kid, it was like I felt like, so 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:51.280 it was crazy. It's just crazy how things happened to 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.280 you and you take it with you. People don't understand 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.600 like you can. A situation can end, but you take 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.360 that with you at your piece of all of your 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.040 things you've been through in life go with you. So yeah, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:08.240 have you ever gotten professional help? Never? I was more 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.600 worried about everybody else as I always am. I still 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.320 feel like I just need to help. And I still 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.560 talking to the women that other women he has abused 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.640 has helped me. I talked to them and I love 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.119 it because we don't have to convince each other yeah 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:30.080 you yes, or you know, like me and his ex 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.600 wife everything, Like I'll tell her something and she'll say 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.560 that's why. Like I gave her a lot of moments 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.000 when it when it is someone being really cut through. 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.840 It's usually a woman, and I mean they be there's 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.360 some really mean ones out there, you know what I mean, 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:51.480 But I take it as they just don't know or 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.160 you just don't want to know, because there's enough information 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.119 out there to know about this one, you know what 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.200 I mean, like the Cook County Courthouse public records, Like 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.199 you pull up case after case that he's paid off, 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.280 and you don't pay off people when you're innocent, you 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.520 know what I mean? Why? Right? Why would you going 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:11.159 back to that self love? I do believe that within 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:18.280 us sometimes that self hatred explodes and we projected on 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.960 other people. What were those conversations that you had with 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:28.080 your mother? Like, yeah, the ones with my my mom? 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.800 We really haven't had many, to be honest. And the 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.800 reason why, I think is because she didn't want to 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.679 deal with her guilt. Like our conversations actually have just 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:44.520 started like after all of this, and she cried and 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.200 I cried, and I told her I don't blame her, right, 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:50.920 And the reason why I don't blame her is because 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.480 when he asked me the night he met me and 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.760 at the video, he asked me how old I was? 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:58.520 I said seventeen. He said when your mama, let you 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.080 come to Chicago. I didn't call her on you know, 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.760 the phone at the at the video, she'd ask can 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.720 I go? I just told him yes because I was going, right, 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.800 That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I know it wasn't you know, 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:15.200 but I knew everything, so it really I don't want 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.800 the blame to be on her, because either way go, 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.960 he was booking my flights, giving me money, I would 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:22.760 have found a way to get there. He has people 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.080 that work for him to make it so. You know, 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:28.520 a lot of people don't understand that either. But then 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.320 they'll say where was your mother? But they don't ask 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.320 the same questions for him. You don't ask what happened 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.560 to his mom when he got abused by his family members? 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:41.360 With us women, you know, they tear us all the way, 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:43.360 now you know what I mean. Well, you know it's 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.520 as if we have to take on everybody's morality. You know, people, 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:52.040 specifically men don't have to be responsible for their own actions. 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.800 People find a way to look at us and make 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.960