Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that.
Speaker 2: Put a new spin on pretty. This is pretty smart.
Speaker 2: In a culture that glorifies youth, embracing your age is
Speaker 2: kind of a radical statement. As a nineties and two
Speaker 2: thousands kid, I remember being bombarded with messages about aging,
Speaker 2: particularly from women. Do you remember Regina George's mom clinging
Speaker 2: to her youth in Mean Girls? Or Rachel Greene's emotional
Speaker 2: thirtieth birthday party and friends. A lot of us have
Speaker 2: been taught that our age isn't just something we need
Speaker 2: to hide, but a yearly reminder that the clock is
Speaker 2: ticking on our life. But today's guest is helping us
Speaker 2: completely rethink all of that. Heidi Clements is an author
Speaker 2: and screenwriter whose career is currently in the midst of
Speaker 2: a reinvention thanks to her refreshingly honest social media account
Speaker 2: at Welcome to Heidi. She's a former entertainment news producer,
Speaker 2: which is how we initially met, and now Heidi is
Speaker 2: focused on telling her own story. She shares nuggets of
Speaker 2: wisdom from her more than six decades of being a human,
Speaker 2: all while showing off her very unique sense of style
Speaker 2: and self. What's amazing about Heidie's account is the vast
Speaker 2: majority of her hundreds of thousands of followers.
Speaker 1: Aren't women in their fifties and sixties. They're women in
Speaker 1: their twenties and thirties. And I think that's proof that
Speaker 1: as we age, as we look at the often daunting
Speaker 1: road ahead, many of us want to feel better about it.
Speaker 1: We're trying to deprogram the messaging we learned when we
Speaker 1: were young that we expire, and quite honestly, I think
Speaker 1: that messaging was met to scare us, because as I
Speaker 1: look at the women in my life, as they age,
Speaker 1: they get happier and they get better. Today, Heidi is
Speaker 1: telling us her story through the decades, her twenties, thirties, forties,
Speaker 1: fifties and beyond, and before she declares sixties as the
Speaker 1: most joyful time of her life, from grief to heartbreak,
Speaker 1: to financial ups and downs, toxic workplaces and sobriety. Heidi
Speaker 1: is going there with us today as living proof that
Speaker 1: aging is full of beauty, complexity, and wonder and so
Speaker 1: often that means the best is still yet to come.
Speaker 1: I want to kick off with your twenties, because I
Speaker 1: barely remember my twenties.
Speaker 2: I feel like I blacked out. Do you have a
Speaker 2: good memory of your twenties? Started in New York. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was twenty one when I graduated from Emerson College,
Speaker 3: and I moved home for a year and my dad
Speaker 3: built me an apartment in the bottom of their house,
Speaker 3: so I had like my own apartment, but it was
Speaker 3: still under their thumb. And I worked in advertising, and
Speaker 3: I would take the Staten Island ferry every day and
Speaker 3: two subways to get to my job. It was nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty three, Yeah, nineteen eighty three, and so it was
Speaker 3: really popular to wear your work outfit but wear stockings
Speaker 3: and then white anklets and tennis sneakers and then switch
Speaker 3: into your pumps. And I was like, fuck that, I'm
Speaker 3: wearing my pumps all the time the whole time, which
Speaker 3: I've always now I'm only in sneakers. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: was like running in high heels since I was twenty
Speaker 3: one years old. So most of my twenties were really
Speaker 3: about just finding my initial independence. I moved into the
Speaker 3: city after about a year at home, and it was
Speaker 3: my first New York City apartment, and it was really
Speaker 3: just about like becoming a person. You know, I was
Speaker 3: under my parents' guidance and very very strict British parents
Speaker 3: for years, and it was just about discovering like who
Speaker 3: I was and what was fun. And it was a
Speaker 3: wonderful time to be in your twenties. There was no
Speaker 3: social media. You had no idea if you were winning
Speaker 3: or losing or passing or failing. You were just living
Speaker 3: your life and all of these clubs were opening, and
Speaker 3: you know, it was the eighties. It was just magic.
Speaker 2: Is there a word that's defined that, Like in hindsight
Speaker 2: has defined your twenties?
Speaker 3: Just fun, free, fun, fun, fun, fun and free. I
Speaker 3: was so free.
Speaker 2: I love that you mentioned social media because you've had
Speaker 2: this sort of new life happened in the last year
Speaker 2: or two with social If you look back at your
Speaker 2: twenties and there was social media available, do you think
Speaker 2: it would have been very different for you?
Speaker 3: Oh, it would have been awful. Because I've been able
Speaker 3: to grow up not thinking that people are thinking about me,
Speaker 3: or saying anything about me, or focused on me at all.
Speaker 3: And so I've lived my life unapologetically without worrying what
Speaker 3: people think about me. Because they would have had to
Speaker 3: physically come up to me and tell me, and nobody
Speaker 3: did that. So there was such a freedom to growing
Speaker 3: up in the eighties and seventies and eighties and sixties
Speaker 3: that I feel badly for people that, you know, it's
Speaker 3: that comparison is the death of joy. Like you just
Speaker 3: all you do is look at what everybody else is doing.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what people were doing. I was getting
Speaker 3: a summerhouse in the Hampton's with my friends, and I
Speaker 3: was going out every single night, and I was working
Speaker 3: crazy jobs, and I was, you know, living in New
Speaker 3: York City. I was living, you know, fucking Carrie what's
Speaker 3: her name, Bradshaw. I was Carrie Bradshaw, just like wearing
Speaker 3: Betsy Johnson and going to clubs and drinking and making
Speaker 3: out with boys and bars, and it was just amazing.
Speaker 2: I love that you say Carrie Bradshaw because when I
Speaker 2: was reading about it, that's that's the first name that
Speaker 2: came to my mind. But I know you kind of
Speaker 2: hate that show.
Speaker 3: I hate, and just like that I hated so much.
Speaker 3: And the truth is I went back and watched Sex
Speaker 3: and the City a few times, and the truth is
Speaker 3: it veered off of what was so wonderful about it,
Speaker 3: which was women, you know, growing up and coming into
Speaker 3: their own And yes it was about sex, but it
Speaker 3: was about not the physical act of sex. It was
Speaker 3: about your sexuality and finding who you loved and dating
Speaker 3: and being in the workplace. And it was about so
Speaker 3: much more than just getting late. And the news show
Speaker 3: is so like, yes, older women are still having bets.
Speaker 3: Like what ever, no one cares about it. Nobody over
Speaker 3: fifty gives a shit about sex. Maybe like one out
Speaker 3: of twenty. Really, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: So wait, I'm going to save that till you till
Speaker 2: the fifties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually problem. Okay, So I was having a
Speaker 3: lot of sex in my twenties for sure.
Speaker 2: I didn't know your parents were strict and it's making
Speaker 2: me laugh because you're such a wild child.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. They were British and both British and did
Speaker 3: not understand Americans at all.
Speaker 2: What was your self esteem like in your twenties.
Speaker 3: I think I liked myself. I don't really remember, but
Speaker 3: I think I thought I was pretty cool and fun
Speaker 3: to be around. I think I don't think I thought
Speaker 3: that I could get any guy I wanted. I definitely
Speaker 3: did not feel confident about men, which you know.
Speaker 2: In your book you say that you're not good at relationships.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, But do you feel like, knowing what you
Speaker 2: know now, any of those twenty year old relationships would
Speaker 2: have been different.
Speaker 3: Well, I will probably, you know, so many of them
Speaker 3: were forged in alcohol, so that was a problem. And
Speaker 3: I would not put up with any of the shit
Speaker 3: that I put up with in my twenties, Like, no
Speaker 3: way would I have done that. But you know, we're
Speaker 3: taught that you're supposed to get married and you're supposed
Speaker 3: to have kids, and so you put up with so
Speaker 3: much fucking bullshit just because you think a guy's cute.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I would love to go back and
Speaker 3: repeat some of those motherfuckers as I said, and punch
Speaker 3: them all in the face. So I curse a lot.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I feel.
Speaker 1: The anger because I actually when I think back on
Speaker 1: my twenty one year old self and how I dealt
Speaker 1: with men, I get angry too, like I can't believe
Speaker 1: that I have allowed certain things.
Speaker 3: I get the oh my god. Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 3: one guy I just would like to just would literally
Speaker 3: run him down with my car and going to jail
Speaker 3: for murder just I think the judge would let me
Speaker 3: off if I told him what he did. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I just the disrespect, and you know, in general, the
Speaker 3: disrespect for women. Just growing up in the workforce in
Speaker 3: the eighties was just a shit show, you know. And
Speaker 3: I was pretty tough, so most people did not mess
Speaker 3: with me. But it was it was a lot. It
Speaker 3: really was a lot.
Speaker 2: Did you have women at work that were supportive of
Speaker 2: you or what.
Speaker 3: Was that they were worse? I mean I've had some
Speaker 3: of the worst female bosses man, I mean, notorious, legendary,
Speaker 3: hideous women, and I was like just fucking you know,
Speaker 3: catnip to them, like ooh, let me take down this
Speaker 3: chick that thinks she's tough. Hmmm.
Speaker 2: It was all break you.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've felt that from men and women though.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're a strong confident person, people want
Speaker 3: to break you down because it makes them feel less
Speaker 3: confident in themselves. You know. It's always like I always say,
Speaker 3: if someone's telling you something they don't like about you,
Speaker 3: just hold a mirror up to them so that they're
Speaker 3: actually speaking to their correct person, which is themselves. Like
Speaker 3: I just bring out a lot of things in other
Speaker 3: people that they're afraid of, which is hilarious because it's
Speaker 3: not like I'm walking around going I'm amazing like me, Like,
Speaker 3: I definitely don't feel that way, you know, I'm winging
Speaker 3: it like everybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have this like strength or I don't
Speaker 2: know what the word is, but you are so forcefully
Speaker 2: yourself and I think people like I talked to a
Speaker 2: rabbi and he said that on people's deathbed, their biggest
Speaker 2: regret is they didn't live their authentic life they live
Speaker 2: have Your parents are for somebody else, and you really
Speaker 2: live for you.
Speaker 3: I do, And I think that's what I preach the most.
Speaker 3: And I think the thing that's made it easy easier
Speaker 3: for me as you know, people say that I am
Speaker 3: unapologetic about how I live, but I think I'm shameless
Speaker 3: about how I live, Like I refuse to have shame
Speaker 3: for being different, for not doing what everyone else tells
Speaker 3: you that you're supposed to do, you know, get married,
Speaker 3: have kids. I think there's so much joy in all
Speaker 3: the shit that I went through because I came out
Speaker 3: the other side, you know. And I think I always
Speaker 3: say that the most important thing to me is to
Speaker 3: leave here better than I came, and I definitely think
Speaker 3: I will.
Speaker 2: Were there moments or are there still moments where you
Speaker 2: find yourself tending towards the norm in any way? Like
Speaker 2: do you feel that pressure still?
Speaker 3: No nobody cares about you once you hit fifty, They're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: she's done, stick a fork in her, she's done.
Speaker 2: Do you really feel that way?
Speaker 3: You don't need to pay attention to her anymore. It's
Speaker 3: not how I feel, it's how it is. It's one
Speaker 3: hundred percent how it is in this country, in this world,
Speaker 3: women are dead after fifty. They become invisible. They are
Speaker 3: told that they are worthless because you know, you are
Speaker 3: only judged or valued for your sexuality, and you're no
Speaker 3: longer considered sexual after fifty, and women have to fight
Speaker 3: their way through a decade of feeling invisible and undervalued.
Speaker 3: Like it hits you at fifty like a light switch.
Speaker 3: It's weird, and then you know you get to sixty
Speaker 3: and you're finally you have no fox left to give
Speaker 3: and you're finally like the person you were meant to
Speaker 3: be all along.
Speaker 2: I'm screwing up my outline for this interview because you're
Speaker 2: you're so interesting, but go backwards, Well, to just take
Speaker 2: it back to your twenty for a second. What's the
Speaker 2: one thing that you wish that Heidi in her twenties knew.
Speaker 3: Confidence, just full like that everything's going to be okay
Speaker 3: if you just be you, just be you, okay, live
Speaker 3: your life. Okay.
Speaker 2: So in your thirties, wait, actually, moisturize.
Speaker 3: I didn't moisturize enough.
Speaker 2: Any specific moisturizer that we should be using.
Speaker 3: I just moisturized your body. I took care of my face,
Speaker 3: but not my body, and my skin's so dry still. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I got a lot of moisturizer tips,
Speaker 3: but yeah.
Speaker 2: What's the one where that would define your thirties drunk?
Speaker 3: Sadly?
Speaker 2: Oh, Heidi, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Hmm. Yeah. It was the decade that I got very,
Speaker 3: very very drunk and buried all of the things that
Speaker 3: I think I didn't know about my childhood or didn't
Speaker 3: I guess I knew, but I didn't know, and so
Speaker 3: I got You know, I was a very functioning drunk.
Speaker 3: But I always say I was too busy being drunk
Speaker 3: to get married or have like a real relationship because
Speaker 3: I was burying everything in booze. And it started out
Speaker 3: as fun. But by the end of my thirties, when
Speaker 3: I had moved to Los Angeles at thirty six, it
Speaker 3: was a disaster. And it was a disaster for four
Speaker 3: years before I finally quit just six months before my
Speaker 3: fortieth birthday. Well, you know, I was supporting myself my
Speaker 3: whole life, and so I was a very functioning drunk.
Speaker 3: I would go to work and I always work was
Speaker 3: everything to me because it was my passion. It wasn't
Speaker 3: just like, oh, I'm going to go clock in at
Speaker 3: the soda shop. You know, it was writing and creating
Speaker 3: and producing. At the time when I was here, I
Speaker 3: was at Access Hollywood and I was the head writer.
Speaker 3: And I got up one morning, you know, we had
Speaker 3: to be in at like six am, And I got
Speaker 3: up one morning at five thirty and I decided to
Speaker 3: have a drink and I got drunk, and I was like, fuck,
Speaker 3: I can't go to work. I can't go to work drunk.
Speaker 3: Although I probably had many times before, like had a
Speaker 3: level of hangover that was close to being drunk, but
Speaker 3: it terrified me. And let me tell you, there were
Speaker 3: plenty of moments before that that should have been the bottom,
Speaker 3: like getting pulled over by the cops, having the cops
Speaker 3: show up at my house when I disappeared one night
Speaker 3: getting thrown off an airplane, like there were many things
Speaker 3: that should have made me quit, and I didn't. And
Speaker 3: so I realized, like, well, now my job is in
Speaker 3: jeopardy and I'm fucked. If I lose my job, that's it.
Speaker 3: I lose my home, I lose everything. And so it
Speaker 3: was a Thursday, I continued to get drunk. I called
Speaker 3: every person that I was close to and cared about,
Speaker 3: including my parents, who I knew would not like this news,
Speaker 3: and my sisters, and I said, I am an alcoholic.
Speaker 3: I need to quit drinking, and I just hope that
Speaker 3: you'll support me. And I got drunk through that weekend,
Speaker 3: and that Monday morning I started my journey into sobriety.
Speaker 3: I think I went to one AA meeting not for me,
Speaker 3: and so I just white knuckled it. And it's been
Speaker 3: twenty three years. Whoa be twenty four years in June?
Speaker 2: I've never heard that. That's really interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I just did not like AA. It
Speaker 3: was all like hand this over to God. And the
Speaker 3: thing about being an alcoholic for me was I felt
Speaker 3: like everyone was so ashamed of their alcoholism, you know, like,
Speaker 3: keep it quiet, don't tell anyone alcoholics anonymous. And I
Speaker 3: was like, I want to tell everybody. It's not my
Speaker 3: fault I became an alcoholic. I didn't molest me when
Speaker 3: I was a kid. I didn't rape me when I
Speaker 3: was drunk at thirty six, blackout, drunk in my apartment
Speaker 3: like I didn't. I wasn't the person who didn't nurture
Speaker 3: me as a child. Like, it's not my fault. So
Speaker 3: I handed the shame back to the people that deserved it.
Speaker 3: And I went about getting my life together for me
Speaker 3: so that I could live my life sober and solve
Speaker 3: my problems rather than bury them in shardenay. And I
Speaker 3: was like, if God has time for my chardonay problem,
Speaker 3: we've got bigger problems, you know. And people in AA
Speaker 3: were giving these speeches and I just thought, guys, just
Speaker 3: pull yourself together, just stop fucking drinking. And so it
Speaker 3: makes it I'm a little tough on people who drink,
Speaker 3: because you know, they because of this and because of that,
Speaker 3: and everyone has a lot of excuses. Just quit drinking, Yeah,
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: I often hear from people who struggle with addiction that
Speaker 2: it gets really lonely. Was that true for you at all,
Speaker 2: because it sounds like you got sober without a community
Speaker 2: around you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't let it take me out.
Speaker 3: I went out every night and I drank mocktails, and
Speaker 3: I drank you know, they tell you not to drink
Speaker 3: non alcoholic beer water, I don't know. It didn't make
Speaker 3: me drunk. So I drank non alcoholic beer or I
Speaker 3: had somebody make me a mocktail. And then when it
Speaker 3: got to the point in the night where people were
Speaker 3: getting wasted, I left. I went home. And you know,
Speaker 3: there have been moments throughout the years. I think when
Speaker 3: I worked on Baby Daddy, on a set where I
Speaker 3: had a lot of fomo, you know. But the truth
Speaker 3: is nothing good happens after midnight, and nothing good happens
Speaker 3: when you are just so drunk you can't even remember
Speaker 3: your name. And I think people are afraid that they
Speaker 3: won't be themselves without booze, And the truth is, you're
Speaker 3: not yourself with booze. You've just developed this new personality,
Speaker 3: and you'll get back to who your real personality is
Speaker 3: without booze and be fun and all of your problems disappear.
Speaker 3: Because you actually face them and deal with them when
Speaker 3: you're sober, and you can drive yourself anywhere. And I
Speaker 3: became so much more curious about life when I got sober.
Speaker 2: Say more about that, What do you mean?
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that has kept me
Speaker 3: young is that I'm so curious about life. Like I
Speaker 3: see something on the internet, I'm like, Ooh, I want
Speaker 3: to try that. Oh I want to go do that.
Speaker 3: Ooh I want to go eat there. Oh what's that about?
Speaker 3: And you know, when you're drunk, you're just going out
Speaker 3: with your friends, getting hammered and going home. You're not
Speaker 3: curious about anything in life except what's in your drink
Speaker 3: and what boy can you make out with? And there's
Speaker 3: a lot more to life than that, you know. And
Speaker 3: I think being a curious person is just the best
Speaker 3: thing that you can be. And it's okay to do
Speaker 3: things alone. You know, you can go on vacations alone,
Speaker 3: you can go to the movies alone, you can go
Speaker 3: to dinner alone. I think take the stigma off of that,
Speaker 3: and you know, become your own best company. And I
Speaker 3: think that happened sober, so that aloneness made me sort
Speaker 3: of date myself. So I didn't look at it as lonely.
Speaker 3: I looked at it is I have a whole new
Speaker 3: person to hang out with me.
Speaker 2: I really like that were you, because everybody on the
Speaker 2: internet is obsessed with how you dress.
Speaker 3: It's such a.
Speaker 2: Part of who you are. Did you have that style
Speaker 2: in your thirties?
Speaker 3: I think I don't think I had. I think I
Speaker 3: always loved fashion, for sure, but I don't think I
Speaker 3: started thinking about style until I was forty, until I
Speaker 3: really soaked into Sex and the City and I started
Speaker 3: watching Jenna Lyons, who had taken over at Banana Republic.
Speaker 3: And I still learn every day from other people on
Speaker 3: the internet. You know, it's all about I realized it
Speaker 3: wasn't about the clothes so much as the confidence and
Speaker 3: you know, making sure that you are wearing your clothes
Speaker 3: and your clothes aren't wearing you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Because I grew up in the Midwest with like
Speaker 2: parents who were like things don't matter, I never really
Speaker 2: thought about style. And then when I moved to LA
Speaker 2: I had to learn because of my job. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: recently I met a Vogue writer, Rachel Besser, who put
Speaker 2: it in a way that I finally felt comfortable with.
Speaker 2: And she was like, you know, when you walk into
Speaker 2: a room, you're telling people about yourself. You're saying something
Speaker 2: with your clothing, with your sunglasses, whatever, it is, the
Speaker 2: way that you would with your words or your warmth. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so I think that's what you do. Like so
Speaker 2: much of your personality is to me. I get to
Speaker 2: know you a little bit, and so much of that
Speaker 2: is conveyed in your belts and your cool skirts and
Speaker 2: your socks and all the things that you mix and match.
Speaker 3: I feel that way about my tattoos also. I think
Speaker 3: that's why I got, you know, full sleeves basically starting
Speaker 3: at fifty years old, because I wanted them to speak
Speaker 3: for me when I went somewhere. I wanted them to say, like,
Speaker 3: she's cool, She's okay, Yeah, even though she's older, she's cool.
Speaker 3: You can hang out with her. Because you do become
Speaker 3: so invisible at fifty, I wanted to do something that
Speaker 3: made me stand out a little bit more. I didn't
Speaker 3: start them till I was fifty, so I think it
Speaker 3: was your first tattoo. My first was a Tarot card
Speaker 3: temperance on my arm because it used to come up
Speaker 3: in my readings all the time. With my psychic this
Speaker 3: and she's like, this is your spirit temperance. Temperance and
Speaker 3: I didn't know what that meant, but it means to
Speaker 3: abstain from alcohol, which is insane. And so I had
Speaker 3: temperance tattooed, the whole tarot tattooed on my arm and
Speaker 3: it was huge, and I was like, oh shit, wow, okay,
Speaker 3: well I've done it now, and then I just kept
Speaker 3: adding to it. I added a lot. It's the one
Speaker 3: tattoo I don't love that much because it's very rudimentary,
Speaker 3: even though it's exactly what I asked for. And now
Speaker 3: I sort of surround myself with flowers and butterflies and birds,
Speaker 3: and I just, you know, so that I can just
Speaker 3: hug myself as in a garden, my own garden.
Speaker 2: We skipped over or skipped forward a little bit. But
Speaker 2: to finish out your thirties, yeah, it's something that you wish.
Speaker 2: Heidi in her thirties.
Speaker 3: Knew stop drinking. It's not drunk, is dumb, it's poison.
Speaker 3: It is poison. Get high on life.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's this Jane Fonda quote that you brought up on
Speaker 2: your Instagram. She said life is separated age wise into
Speaker 2: three acts. In the third act, you go back to
Speaker 2: your first act, your girlhood, and you become all the
Speaker 2: things you were supposed to be, because at the time
Speaker 2: you never really knew who you were because you were
Speaker 2: too busy trying to be who other people wanted you
Speaker 2: to be. I want to know, with what you know now,
Speaker 2: what would you not waste your time on in your forties?
Speaker 3: In my forties, God, I mean, I guess it would
Speaker 3: have to be worrying about what other people think about you.
Speaker 2: Interesting that you had none of that in your twenties,
Speaker 2: but you felt it in your forties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when did social media start? I don't know, interesting
Speaker 3: to start then, Facebook and all that. Probably the reason
Speaker 3: I think I thought about that then is because I
Speaker 3: was newly sober, and I was just a giant, raw,
Speaker 3: open wound that I always likened to like I was
Speaker 3: dancing on the head of a pin at all times,
Speaker 3: and so you constantly thought about what people were thinking
Speaker 3: about you, because oh god, they all know that I
Speaker 3: was drunk because I'm sober now and they're all talking
Speaker 3: about me. And so I think I thought more. I
Speaker 3: was just more aware because it was I wasn't drunk
Speaker 3: and so I was more aware of people and opinions
Speaker 3: and things that were happening. So yeah, so I think
Speaker 3: just that just I mean, that's a life thing too.
Speaker 3: But I really thought about it more for sure in
Speaker 3: my forties than I did in my thirties.
Speaker 2: Did you enjoy your forties?
Speaker 3: They were wroth because I was just discovering who I
Speaker 3: was for the first time in twenty years. I always
Speaker 3: had good jobs, I didn't have to worry about that,
Speaker 3: and places to live, and made good money and had
Speaker 3: good friends. But I just think I was I don't
Speaker 3: know that I was like checked into anything in particular.
Speaker 3: I was just sort of going with the flow.
Speaker 2: When you say checked in, do you mean the way
Speaker 2: I take it? At least? Was I felt like at
Speaker 2: like twenty eight, And then at thirty I had I
Speaker 2: was like a sleep and I kind of had this
Speaker 2: awakening that I had been sleep walking a little bit
Speaker 2: through life. Is that what you mean by.
Speaker 3: I just mean? I don't know. I think I just
Speaker 3: mean like checking into the concept of living, you know,
Speaker 3: And it was so free and easy in my twenties
Speaker 3: and thirties, and now I was just much more aware
Speaker 3: of things like, oh shit, I didn't have kids? Should
Speaker 3: I do that? Do I need to do that? And
Speaker 3: I went to a guy ecologist and found out like
Speaker 3: how difficult it was going to be, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: fuck it, I guess I'm not having kids, And then
Speaker 3: coming to GRIPS with that the idea that I was
Speaker 3: never going to be a parent, and just checking into
Speaker 3: all the life markers that you're supposed to hit that
Speaker 3: I didn't hit, and that people still reminded you like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're single. I can't believe you never got married. You're
Speaker 3: so pretty, like that's the reason why you don't get married.
Speaker 3: So I was still in I was, you know, I
Speaker 3: hadn't hit fifty yet, so I was still like saveable.
Speaker 3: I still could have led a real life according to society.
Speaker 3: And so I think I was just more checked into
Speaker 3: the societal rules and markers that I was not hitting
Speaker 3: as far as marriage, kids, buying a home and all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Did the kid stuff hurt No, not at all. Because
Speaker 1: you you said like you had to come to GRIPS.
Speaker 2: What is that mean?
Speaker 3: I mean, I just you know, So I went to
Speaker 3: the gynecologist and she said, okay, well, if you want
Speaker 3: to get pregnant. You know your forty it's geriatric now,
Speaker 3: so here's it's not gonna be easy, and you're gonna
Speaker 3: have to do this and take this and go here
Speaker 3: and shoot this. And I was like, I don't want
Speaker 3: to do any of that, and I was it was
Speaker 3: a very quick, easy decision, like, Okay, I guess I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna have kids. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2: Do you have any romantic relationships in your forties that
Speaker 2: you felt were like something that no?
Speaker 3: So sadly they tell you that when you get sober,
Speaker 3: you should not have a relationship for a year, okay.
Speaker 3: And I made the mistake of getting involved with a big,
Speaker 3: fat liar about six months into my sobriety, and it
Speaker 3: wrecked me. It just absolutely wrecked me and just reminded
Speaker 3: me that I was not strong enough for heartbreak again.
Speaker 3: And it was a big mistake. And I haven't had
Speaker 3: a relationship since, to be honest with you, it's been
Speaker 3: twenty some odd years. And I just realized that I
Speaker 3: just needed to have a relationship with somebody who cared
Speaker 3: about me, and that was me.
Speaker 2: Did you can I ask more about that anything you want?
Speaker 2: What about that one wreck? Do you like, was it
Speaker 2: that you gave it, you really gave of yourself to
Speaker 2: him and you trusted him, or what about it.
Speaker 3: So it was somebody that I was working with and
Speaker 3: he was moving to la and he was enamored with me,
Speaker 3: and he was, you know, my girlfriend, I have a girlfriend,
Speaker 3: and she was supposed to move here with me, but
Speaker 3: I am so madly in love with you and I
Speaker 3: can't wait to start a life with you. He love
Speaker 3: bombed me to have sex, and it was probably one
Speaker 3: of the only times in my life that I can
Speaker 3: remember that I had sober sex and it was a
Speaker 3: completely different type of sex than any sex I had
Speaker 3: ever had before. And then right after that happened, he said,
Speaker 3: my girlfriend's actually moving here and we're moving in together.
Speaker 3: It was just a lie to get me, and I
Speaker 3: just couldn't believe. I didn't know what love bombing was
Speaker 3: at the time, and I just it just made me
Speaker 3: not trust anybody, including myself, and I was just like,
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna take a little break. I'm going to
Speaker 3: take that year that they say you should take. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful it did not ruin my sobriety it
Speaker 3: should have, And I still hate him the most out
Speaker 3: of anybody, and like, I have friends that work with
Speaker 3: him still and he's famous and on TV, and it
Speaker 3: drives me crazy because he just really could have ruined me,
Speaker 3: you know. One year turned into two, turned into three,
Speaker 3: turned into well not that interested. Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 3: talk about that a lot because I think people think, like,
Speaker 3: if you haven't had sex in a certain amount of time,
Speaker 3: people think there's something wrong with you, and how how
Speaker 3: can you actually live your life and be out there
Speaker 3: walking around on two feet and oh no, wonder why
Speaker 3: you're so angry because you need to get laid and
Speaker 3: all of it. Oh god, that's a very popular expression
Speaker 3: from my forties.
Speaker 2: That's so mean.
Speaker 3: That's a very popular And I always say, like, your
Speaker 3: penis is not the hug that I need, trust, trust
Speaker 3: and believe. So yeah, I just that was it.
Speaker 2: So I had a big, fat liar too.
Speaker 3: I've had a lot, but that one was first one. Sober.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 3: You weren't you engaged? No, you were living in Chicago
Speaker 3: with someone though right when I met.
Speaker 2: I met you when I lived here in la and
Speaker 2: then I moved to Chicago for a morning show gig,
Speaker 2: and when I moved back. I moved in with a guy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, and he was a big, fat liar
Speaker 2: and exactly, I still like, I'm so over Itctually, I'm
Speaker 2: at the point where I wish him well. But when
Speaker 2: I think about it, I have like this physical reaction
Speaker 2: in my chest. It just when somebody makes you not
Speaker 2: trust yourself, it hurts me badly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I've had that experience many times because
Speaker 3: of the person that I am. I think I am.
Speaker 3: I've said it in one of my stories, like I'm
Speaker 3: such a narcissist magnet, and I'm sure you're the same way.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, a narcissist sees a tough girl
Speaker 3: and they're like, ooh, that's a challenge. I'm going to
Speaker 3: take that one down.
Speaker 2: Is that what? I didn't know that?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they love a challenge.
Speaker 2: Interesting, they want to break you.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they love it. I've had that happen so
Speaker 3: many times. Oh my god, and I don't know how
Speaker 3: I didn't fucking learn.
Speaker 2: Do you recognize it now?
Speaker 3: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's the good part, right, like you see
Speaker 2: it right away.
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I mean, I think that's why it's so
Speaker 3: hard for me. To date now because you have to
Speaker 3: be of goddamn, I'm not, but you have to be we.
Speaker 2: Do Wait, did we pick a word for our forties?
Speaker 2: I forgot.
Speaker 3: I think terrified. Honestly, I was just so raw. I
Speaker 3: would say raw, you know, just trying to figure it
Speaker 3: all out.
Speaker 2: So coming into your fifties, this is where I get
Speaker 2: really excited to talk about your life. Is there a
Speaker 2: word that you think to find your fifties.
Speaker 4: I guess maybe it would be like reborn. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: like that one because it was yes, you become invisible,
Speaker 4: but in the invisibility there's so much power. When you
Speaker 4: realize that people aren't paying attention to you anymore, you
Speaker 4: are just one hundred percent free to be yourself. And
Speaker 4: I think the fifties is when I started giving less
Speaker 4: far about what people thought about me. I mean everyone
Speaker 4: thought like, oh, you don't care what people think about it,
Speaker 4: But I mean, of course you do, like they tell
Speaker 4: you constantly. So not only was I feeling more powerful,
Speaker 4: but I got my dream job as a scripted writer,
Speaker 4: and so everything was just exactly where I.
Speaker 3: Wanted it to be. You know, I owned a home,
Speaker 3: I bought my first house. I was becoming just like
Speaker 3: who I wanted to be. I felt really free about
Speaker 3: being who I was. I was working this magical job.
Speaker 3: It was just a really great time. And you know,
Speaker 3: I think the hard part about being fifty for a
Speaker 3: lot of women is dating. And so I was so
Speaker 3: grateful that I did not care one iota about men.
Speaker 3: I never really have cared about relationships. They just pulled
Speaker 3: me in. They all found me, sucked me into it
Speaker 3: when I was younger, but I was never someone who
Speaker 3: judged them whether or not I had a boyfriend, I
Speaker 3: didn't whatever. Yeah, I think it was just such a
Speaker 3: great rebirth of who I was. You know, I was
Speaker 3: ten years sober. It was great.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the magical job, but I
Speaker 2: think for people to appreciate the magical job, we have
Speaker 2: to go back to the non magical ones a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you write all about toxic workplace culture in your book,
Speaker 2: and that's actually how I got introgued when we met.
Speaker 2: Then I went home and read your pink cover and
Speaker 2: your book. I ordered it on Amazon and I was like.
Speaker 3: Holy shitt, oh my god, Yeah I was. And actually
Speaker 3: I turned fifty and went to I took a bunch
Speaker 3: of friends to London and Rome and my most toxic
Speaker 3: boss crashed the trip and she's one of the chapters
Speaker 3: in my book. And she was the tail end of
Speaker 3: the toxic workplace for me. Yeah, I worked with just
Speaker 3: insane people and television back then, tabloid TV and news
Speaker 3: and entertainment news was so toxic, like nobody would get
Speaker 3: away with what they got away with. And in my book,
Speaker 3: I write about that last boss and the head of
Speaker 3: the network read that chapter and said, is she really
Speaker 3: like this? We need to get rid of her immediately,
Speaker 3: and they fired her finally.
Speaker 2: And that's how it happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's still trying to assume me. Probably she hates me,
Speaker 3: but whatever. Yeah, and that was I think. You know,
Speaker 3: that's the one thing I really regret about that time
Speaker 3: in my life is that. And I spoke up to
Speaker 3: these women. I did, but I wish I fought harder
Speaker 3: to take them out.
Speaker 2: You know, it's so hard at work because in large
Speaker 2: corporations like I don't even know how you take someone out,
Speaker 2: Like there's so many like legal steps, yeah and all
Speaker 2: that nonsense.
Speaker 3: Well, I went to HR after this last boss. You know,
Speaker 3: we were at the Royal wedding in London, and she
Speaker 3: was so abusive to the first Royal wedding, and she
Speaker 3: was so abusive to me that I called HR from
Speaker 3: London and said, I am literally with like an abusive
Speaker 3: boyfriend who won't let me break up with them, and
Speaker 3: I need out and you need to get me out
Speaker 3: and I am not going back to that job when
Speaker 3: we get back, and I'm never showing up again. And
Speaker 3: they helped me get out, but they knew that she
Speaker 3: was a problem. They were like, yeah, we know she's
Speaker 3: got it, but they didn't care because she made money
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 2: You write in your book, every day at work was
Speaker 2: an adventure in insanity. This boss actually loved to scream
Speaker 2: and yell at people, and the bigger the crowd that
Speaker 2: was watching, the better.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She fed off the energy of just hate and anger.
Speaker 1: How do you make this pivot into screenwriting because you
Speaker 1: start working for Baby Die?
Speaker 2: Do you say in so many interviews that this was
Speaker 2: your dream job?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I always wanted to be a scripted writer.
Speaker 2: Nonscripted, unscripted. It's so like, it's very hard to make
Speaker 2: that leap.
Speaker 3: Very it's impossible.
Speaker 2: Women do it.
Speaker 3: It's impossible, And you know, people ask me all the time,
Speaker 3: how can they do what I did? And you can't
Speaker 3: because it was such a unique situation, you know, I,
Speaker 3: while I was at entertainment tonight, I had been writing
Speaker 3: scripts for ten years on my own. I had no
Speaker 3: schooling or I didn't know what I was doing. And
Speaker 3: I had been writing for ten years. And I had
Speaker 3: a best friend and we would pass scripts back and
Speaker 3: forth to each other. And when I was at entertainment tonight,
Speaker 3: he was coming in to pitch something at Paramount, which
Speaker 3: was on the same lot. And I had written a
Speaker 3: script called Psycho about a couple, Sydney and Colin, and
Speaker 3: the first half was all female and the second half
Speaker 3: was all male. And you would answer one question, they
Speaker 3: would act out like how men and women see things
Speaker 3: one statement, how they hear it totally differently. And I
Speaker 3: think the first episode was like, you know, do you
Speaker 3: want to come back to my place? And girls think,
Speaker 3: you know, do you want to come back to my place?
Speaker 3: And boys think, do you want to have sex? He
Speaker 3: pitched his three ideas, two of his and mine, and
Speaker 3: mine was the one that they bought. And so we
Speaker 3: went to the CW and we cast it, and we
Speaker 3: cast Nick Lache they made us cast Nickolache, who I love,
Speaker 3: and Lindsay Sloane, and we shot it on the Paramount
Speaker 3: lot and I never left Entertainment Tonight and I would
Speaker 3: run back and forth between running ET and running the show,
Speaker 3: and the night before the upfronts Les Moonvez decided that
Speaker 3: Nick Lache was not a star and they didn't pick
Speaker 3: up the show, and so I never left Entertainment Tonight.
Speaker 3: And then when things hit the fan at Entertainment Tonight,
Speaker 3: I went back to Extra with another boss I had
Speaker 3: had problems with, but we made up, and while I
Speaker 3: was there, the guy that I Dan, who I had
Speaker 3: done my first show with, sold Baby Daddy and asked
Speaker 3: me to come work on it. Wow, so that shit
Speaker 3: doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: Did this change your financial security in any way?
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I made a fortune from I went
Speaker 3: from making you know, ten thousand dollars a week, which
Speaker 3: was great salary, to well, actually, at Extra, I was
Speaker 3: making five thousand dollars a week. I stepped down from
Speaker 3: my giant I gave up a giant salary at ET
Speaker 3: half a million dollars a year, which I saved none
Speaker 3: of because I lived in an eleven thousand dollars a
Speaker 3: month home crazy person. I went from five thousand a
Speaker 3: week to twenty six thousand dollars a week, and that
Speaker 3: was the low salary for a writer. You don't get
Speaker 3: those anymore either, thank you Writers Guild. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: made a ton of money and I was so happy
Speaker 3: and it was such a great job, and I met
Speaker 3: people that are still like my closest friends and family
Speaker 3: because we worked together for one hundred episodes and it
Speaker 3: was just the greatest job ever. I loved it so much.
Speaker 1: I noticed that during this time of your life you
Speaker 1: had all these intergenerational relationships, like you two have girlfriends
Speaker 1: in every decade, twenties, forties, fifties, sixties. I still do
Speaker 1: you have friends that are older than you?
Speaker 3: A couple. Yeah, a couple, and only more recently, and
Speaker 3: only because I feel confident being around women that I
Speaker 3: thought were so much more powerful than me, that would
Speaker 3: look at me like, oh, you know, because I was
Speaker 3: always kind of like the black sheep, you're too loud,
Speaker 3: don't say that in front of people, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of a person, and women would look at me that way.
Speaker 4: All.
Speaker 3: I get judged a lot by women my age, because
Speaker 3: you know, we grew I don't blame them. We grew
Speaker 3: up differently. We grew up not supposed to be like
Speaker 3: I am, but more, you know, demure and quiet. And
Speaker 3: so I think now I have more friends that are
Speaker 3: older than me because I feel confident enough to share
Speaker 3: my true self with them.
Speaker 2: I feel like this was a pretty happy decade for you.
Speaker 2: But is there anything that you wish you could tell
Speaker 2: fifty year old Heidi?
Speaker 3: Yeah, stop worrying about your weight, Stop looking at the scale,
Speaker 3: stop dieting. Jesus Christ, that took a long time.
Speaker 2: That's a big one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that took till sixty something to throw
Speaker 3: my scale out. But I spent a lot of time
Speaker 3: in my fifties, like not wearing shorts because I hate
Speaker 3: my legs, not wearing bathing suits because I'm fat, getting
Speaker 3: my boobs cut off because they're too big, which I'm
Speaker 3: grateful for that one, but just worrying about what I
Speaker 3: looked like, you know what I ate? And just stupid.
Speaker 2: What's a word that defines your sixties so far?
Speaker 3: Fucking joy? Really? Just joy? Ah, the sixties are my
Speaker 3: I could cry. I will cry.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you feel that way. I really
Speaker 2: earned it.
Speaker 3: I try to show that to people because it's like
Speaker 3: a switch went off when I turned sixty and I
Speaker 3: just completely accept myself, my flaws, my failures, my successes,
Speaker 3: Like I just get it now, and to be able
Speaker 3: to go through life just getting it is just such
Speaker 3: a blessing. Like is it perfect? God? No, But I
Speaker 3: just I'm just so much happier and I and a
Speaker 3: lot of that has to do with the fact that
Speaker 3: I left LA and left a job that made me miserable.
Speaker 3: But right now, this time in my life, I can
Speaker 3: tell you I am just so happy.
Speaker 2: Can I can I drill like, can we drill into why?
Speaker 2: Like what what switch? Because you had a moment after
Speaker 2: Baby Daddy ended. I could tell you were frustrated and
Speaker 2: not feeling that kind of joy. What happened?
Speaker 3: I think I just realized, like, you know, yeah, listen,
Speaker 3: I'm still trying to sell scripts about women in their fifties,
Speaker 3: and I've been doing that since I was fifty. I
Speaker 3: think I just sort of realized, like, you know, what
Speaker 3: if Baby Daddy is it? What if that's the only
Speaker 3: show I get to write? Well, I should be proud
Speaker 3: of that, because a lot of people don't get that opportunity,
Speaker 3: and I just sort of took the pressure off of
Speaker 3: all the things that people tell you you're supposed to feel
Speaker 3: and just really got more present in life and really
Speaker 3: just leaned into the small things in life, Like I
Speaker 3: love that I'm surrounded by trees and nature, and I'm
Speaker 3: so black that my friends gave me this opportunity to
Speaker 3: move into their guest house and just get out of
Speaker 3: la and get out of a job that I really
Speaker 3: did not like.
Speaker 2: Now you're toos match your surroundings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, And I just am so grateful to get
Speaker 3: to know who I am. That's what makes me cry,
Speaker 3: Like people don't get that opportunity to just get to
Speaker 3: know who they are and be happy with who they are.
Speaker 3: And I feel so I feel so blessed on this
Speaker 3: social media journey that I'm on because I get the
Speaker 3: most remarkable messages from people, and I feel like it's
Speaker 3: so rewarding what I'm doing. Just being me has become
Speaker 3: so rewarding to other people, Like who gets that.
Speaker 2: Towards the end of COVID, you started posting like, let's
Speaker 2: get dressed right, and you're beautiful writer, so you would
Speaker 2: share these life lessons while you would get dressed.
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 2: See all these young women in their twenties and thirties
Speaker 2: on your page. I think that's like, probably is that
Speaker 2: your main audience.
Speaker 3: Ninety percent is under thirty five.
Speaker 2: What do you think you're giving them? Because they're I mean,
Speaker 2: they're coming by the droves.
Speaker 3: What they tell me is that I've made them less
Speaker 3: afraid to get old and that I feel like a
Speaker 3: safe space for them. And that is a remarkable gift
Speaker 3: because my goal was to change the way the world
Speaker 3: looks at women over fifty, and I think I do
Speaker 3: that every day. And to be able to give girls
Speaker 3: because I didn't have that, To be able to give
Speaker 3: young women a reason to live their lives, to not
Speaker 3: feel judged by what society tells them they're supposed to do,
Speaker 3: to just get out there and just be present in
Speaker 3: their own life and not beat themselves up is just
Speaker 3: a fucking joy bomb for me to know that I'm
Speaker 3: actually doing some good with the crazy life that I led.
Speaker 2: I want to go into your sixties a little bit.
Speaker 2: I saw you right that you're terrified on a daily
Speaker 2: basis and that you're actually a massive failure at life.
Speaker 2: I was so surprised by that, and I'm still surprised,
Speaker 2: especially after our conversation, because you talk about self acceptance
Speaker 2: in such a resonant way. Have you redefined what success
Speaker 2: and failure quote I hate that word failure, but what
Speaker 2: success or pivoting looks like for you?
Speaker 3: You know, this stuff that terrifies me on a daily
Speaker 3: basis is almost always the same thing, and it's usually
Speaker 3: and it's the one thing that I said that I
Speaker 3: have been a failure at, which is financial because I'm
Speaker 3: trying to monetize this social media world that I live in,
Speaker 3: and I refuse to promote Amazon stretch pants, and so
Speaker 3: it's more difficult to get brand deals when you are
Speaker 3: screaming at the world. So I am terrified about that normally.
Speaker 3: And I also, you know, it's not a terrified on
Speaker 3: a daily basis could mean, you know, for five seconds,
Speaker 3: like no one's perfect, No one's life is perfectly happy
Speaker 3: all the time, and if it was, you wouldn't even
Speaker 3: you wouldn't even know what happiness was, if you were
Speaker 3: happy and joyful all the time. But I'm terrified of
Speaker 3: things like that, of you know, like again not leaving
Speaker 3: better than I came of, you know, fucking up a
Speaker 3: relationship here or there, of not giving people the right message,
Speaker 3: that's saying the wrong thing, of being Jewish, and what
Speaker 3: is going on in the world. You know, there's always stuff,
Speaker 3: but I always come back to the fact of, well,
Speaker 3: at least I love myself.
Speaker 2: This is something that I'm personally looking at. So I
Speaker 2: am asking you, almost asking for a friend. But you
Speaker 2: opened up about losing your mom in a really beautiful post,
Speaker 2: and you talk about really missing her and saying that
Speaker 2: your relationship was not perfect, but you know that she
Speaker 2: did her best and that you actually blamed her for
Speaker 2: a lot of your problems. I've noticed I'm starting to
Speaker 2: do this daily show, and I noticed that I talk
Speaker 2: about my mom a lot, and sometimes in a way
Speaker 2: that's maybe like hypercritical. She deserves it. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: talk about my dad that way. When did you start
Speaker 2: to gain a new perspective on your relationship with her?
Speaker 3: After I got sober, I realized that my parents never
Speaker 3: said I love you to me, and so I started
Speaker 3: ending every single phone call with the words I love you.
Speaker 3: It took them ten years, I would say to say
Speaker 3: it back, and I mean I said every phone call,
Speaker 3: and so that helped it shift and then I when
Speaker 3: I was sober and was more proud of who I was,
Speaker 3: and my mother couldn't like look at me and roll
Speaker 3: her eyes at you know, my pink hair or my tattoos,
Speaker 3: which she hated all of it. But I didn't care
Speaker 3: so much what she thought. And I you know, my
Speaker 3: sisters went to my mom and told her how they
Speaker 3: felt about some stuff she had done to them, which
Speaker 3: was really bad, and she said, I'm too old to change.
Speaker 3: And I think that registered with me of like, okay,
Speaker 3: well then I'm just gonna live my life and realize,
Speaker 3: like this is who you are. And then I read
Speaker 3: that quote somewhere that you know, remember it's your mom's
Speaker 3: first time here too, and I realized, like my mom
Speaker 3: got married at nineteen, like she didn't even have a
Speaker 3: chance to know who she was, and she grew up
Speaker 3: in a time where you weren't allowed to really be
Speaker 3: a woman. And you know, there's a lot of good
Speaker 3: things that she obviously instilled in me, because look at me,
Speaker 3: and she obviously gave me a lot of confidence or
Speaker 3: defying her gave me confidence whatever was. And so but
Speaker 3: what really changed was when my mom had a heart attack.
Speaker 3: I guess we think it is. And I saw her
Speaker 3: on her deathbed and I realized, like, oh wow, it's over. Sorry,
Speaker 3: it's okay, Like just like that, it's over. And now
Speaker 3: I can't have a relationship with her, and all the
Speaker 3: things that I felt just don't matter, just don't matter
Speaker 3: because she's not here now, and it's just stupid to
Speaker 3: carry dumb shes She didn't do anything bad to me,
Speaker 3: she didn't abuse me, and you know, it's just so
Speaker 3: dumb to carry this stuff because they're gone. And I
Speaker 3: know my mom knows everything that I'm doing now, and
Speaker 3: I know she's with me every day because the night
Speaker 3: that she died, I had flown back to LA and
Speaker 3: my sister called me and said, you know, Mom's gone,
Speaker 3: and I started crying, and when I hung up, I
Speaker 3: yelled for my dog. I said, Daisy, come here, and
Speaker 3: my Google radio clicked on and said and said, I'm
Speaker 3: already here. And so I've known that she's been with
Speaker 3: me since then, And like I know, people that know
Speaker 3: my relationship with her would think it was crazy that
Speaker 3: I would get this upset, but you know, to your mom,
Speaker 3: your mom is your mom, and I'm more in the
Speaker 3: relationship that I wish we could have had. And I
Speaker 3: think people have good relationships with their moms where their
Speaker 3: moms are their best friends. Are the luckiest girls in
Speaker 3: the world, because I would kill for that.
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing that. I'm sorry to make you cry
Speaker 2: on a Sunday.
Speaker 3: Crying is very healthy. I didn't cry till I did ayahuasca.
Speaker 3: So they literally did not cry until I was in
Speaker 3: my fifties.
Speaker 4: Really no, never more drunk, and I don't think so
Speaker 4: oh my god.
Speaker 3: No. I was raised like you don't cry emotion, you
Speaker 3: don't and then you go to work you don't cry.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't think I cried till I was
Speaker 3: fifty and I haven't stopped crying since.
Speaker 2: So you say that social media in many ways is
Speaker 2: your therapy. Yeah, what do you think has been the
Speaker 2: most helpful lesson that you've learned by sharing so many
Speaker 2: of your stories?
Speaker 3: Just to love my body a little bit more, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: daily struggle. I mean I still wake up and think, ooh,
Speaker 3: I got to lose like five pounds like every day,
Speaker 3: and showing myself is part of my therapy.
Speaker 1: You know, you're still in your sixties, so we can't
Speaker 1: do a hindsight. So I want to know what you
Speaker 1: want and wish for Heidi sixties.
Speaker 3: Rad I hope I get to sell a show about
Speaker 3: women in their fifties and sixties because we deserve it,
Speaker 3: and you know, real Housewives on Bravo shouldn't be the
Speaker 3: only place that we can see real women in their
Speaker 3: fifties and sixties living their life. And again, I just
Speaker 3: I want to change the way the world looks at
Speaker 3: women over fifty. You know, we're not Grace and Frankie yet.
Speaker 3: We're just starting our third act and there's a lot
Speaker 3: of things to do.
Speaker 2: If we were to put a word on it, my
Speaker 2: word for you would be liberated. What would your word
Speaker 2: is joy for sixties? Yeah, yeah, No, liberated is a
Speaker 2: good word. I feel liberated from society, and I think
Speaker 2: social media has done that for me because these young
Speaker 2: people are telling me, you know, like I walk around
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara and people come up to me like crying like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, You've changed my life. Like I get
Speaker 2: recognized all the time now, and it's never like, oh hey,
Speaker 2: I follow you, it's oh my god, You've changed my life.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you make me happy to get old.
Speaker 2: Like it's just these affirmations that people don't say to
Speaker 2: each other, and so I think that's what's making everything
Speaker 2: so wonderful. Not to get to therapy here, but when
Speaker 2: as you're saying not, I'm thinking, like all the affirmations
Speaker 2: and love that you didn't get in your childhood are
Speaker 2: kind of coming around now, which is so interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. I am nurtured on a daily
Speaker 3: basis by the people who follow me.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 3: I hope I'm nurturing them. I mean you are.
Speaker 2: You're nurturing me virtually, and I'm they So I know
Speaker 2: how people feel when they watch you and listen to
Speaker 2: your words. Okay, rapid fire. The only thing that you
Speaker 2: used to take for granted that you don't anymore, My mom,
Speaker 2: If you could revisit one specific age for just one day,
Speaker 2: what would it be?
Speaker 3: Probably somewhere in my thirties. Yeah, somewhere in my thirties,
Speaker 3: Like I would definitely be like somebody who broke my
Speaker 3: heart that I would want to go back and tell
Speaker 3: them that they're not gonna You're not going to ruin me.
Speaker 3: I will survive.
Speaker 2: What is the best gift that you've ever.
Speaker 3: Given given my time? My heart?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Honestly, how about the best gift you've.
Speaker 3: Received friendship, especially from the people that are are putting
Speaker 3: me up right now. They also paid my rent during
Speaker 3: COVID for two years. They are the greatest, most wonderful
Speaker 3: friends in the world, Dan and Kevin, and they have
Speaker 3: just saved my life regularly.
Speaker 1: What is a book that should be required reading, something
Speaker 1: that you think everybody should read?
Speaker 3: Well, I think the movie Origin should be required viewing
Speaker 3: for everybody quite frankly right now. But a book, I
Speaker 3: would say The Midnight Library. I don't know if you've
Speaker 3: read it, but it's a story of a woman, you know, basically,
Speaker 3: who doesn't want to be alive anymore, who has the
Speaker 3: opportunity to go to a library where all of the
Speaker 3: lives she could have led live and she jumps in
Speaker 3: and out of those lives.
Speaker 2: Oh, I have to read that.
Speaker 3: Harry Mulligan narrates it, so if you wanted to, it
Speaker 3: was a great audiobook, and she's going to make the movie.
Speaker 3: It's a spectacular book.
Speaker 2: What is the smartest decision you've ever made?
Speaker 3: Heidi moving to Santa Barbara right now?
Speaker 2: I would say I have one last question.
Speaker 1: Okay, question everything card game, Because we're virtual, you tell
Speaker 1: me when to stop stop. Okay, wow, this is an
Speaker 1: interesting one for you after our conversation.
Speaker 2: Do you fall in love easily? What is your love language?
Speaker 3: I do fall in love easily. I would say my
Speaker 3: love What are the love languages? I think it's what
Speaker 3: would be the one equivalent to like being heard?
Speaker 2: Ooh, words of affirmation maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, which could also be love bombing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends. There's a thin line.
Speaker 3: I just be You know, women, it's something interesting about
Speaker 3: women in their fifties. You know, they've spent their whole
Speaker 3: life not being listened to, and now they're really not
Speaker 3: being listened to. And I think that being heard is
Speaker 3: you know, you watch The Golden Bachelor and you watch
Speaker 3: these women just like, oh my god, nobody's looked at
Speaker 3: me like this, nobody's spoken to me like this in
Speaker 3: deck in years, and you know, we're all out here
Speaker 3: just trying to live authentic lives and be heard. And
Speaker 3: so if someone is having a conversation with me and
Speaker 3: they're actually listening to me and asking me questions about
Speaker 3: my life, like I'm in I fell madly in love
Speaker 3: with Eddie Cibrian when I worked with him on Baby Daddy.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was in love with him from a
Speaker 3: movie that he had made years earlier with Holly Hunter
Speaker 3: and it's so hot. How you the nicest man? And
Speaker 3: so is his wife Leanne. But Eddie was on Baby
Speaker 3: Daddy and I just remember him sitting with me and
Speaker 3: he was like, tell me about your life. It's so fascinating,
Speaker 3: tell me everything. And I was like, how is Eddie
Speaker 3: Cibrian sitting here talking to me at sixty years old?
Speaker 3: Like I just I love him so much and that
Speaker 3: kind of person that just is interested in what you
Speaker 3: have to say, because most men are not interested in
Speaker 3: listening to women.
Speaker 2: Are you open to a relationship in your sixties? Do
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah? But he'd have to like fall out of the ceiling, Yeah,
Speaker 3: onto your mind. Yeah, I'm not. There's no online dating happening,
Speaker 3: but I see people all the time and I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 3: they're hot. I'd go out with them.
Speaker 2: That's cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it never happens, but it could.
Speaker 2: It could.
Speaker 3: I never give up never saying ever.
Speaker 2: You know when did you stop dyeing your hair?
Speaker 3: Like three years before the pandemic? And everyone told me
Speaker 3: I was crazy? Why because I'm going to look old?
Speaker 3: And how am old? Who cares? Why is old a
Speaker 3: bad word? Like old is a good word? I earned this.
Speaker 3: You know you get here. It means you're living. What's
Speaker 3: the opposite?
Speaker 2: Okay? My last and final question for you is what
Speaker 2: is one thing you think I need to hear right now?
Speaker 3: Live your life for you, Trust your gut. Make decisions
Speaker 3: that you know will make you happy, because happiness breeds
Speaker 3: more happiness, and the only thing that matters in life
Speaker 3: is being happy. If you can float in a sea
Speaker 3: of joy and happiness, you will be in the flow
Speaker 3: of what you're supposed to be doing in life, and
Speaker 3: which could be helping people or you know, there's just
Speaker 3: no better place to be and just live your life
Speaker 3: unapologetically and without shame. Thank you, Heidi, I give you permission.
Speaker 2: M thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1: You know what time it is. Today's a good day.
Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.