1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: and today on the show Crustacean News Station, all the 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: crabby stories fit to print or pinch, lobsters not saying 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: no to drugs, and crabs implicated in a famous disappearance. 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: question can lobsters feel pain? Joining me today is friend 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: of the show co host of the Just the Zoo 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: of Us podcast, Ellen Weatherford. 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you. It's always nice to talk to you. Katie, 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: my favorite person. 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you on, specifically for 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: this one. I couldn't imagine a better guest to have 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: on to talk about, uh, lobsters getting hot boxed and 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: crabs disappearing a lady. 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: It is incredibly on brand for me. I think of 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: just crustaceans being menaces. 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you. I'm I know that you are 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: already a fan of the concept of carsonization, that we 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: all shall become crabs at some point, that crab crab form. 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: Just so. The story behind that is that animals, especially crustaceans, 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: but animals in general will often come to this evolutionary 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: path and converge on the crab shape because the crab 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: shape is apparently really good. Scuttling is apparently just a 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: really premium method of transportation, and so like you'll have spiders, arthropods, 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: crustaceans all sort of independently evolving crab form. 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: It's it's funny that you bring this up now, because 28 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: I just this week did a TikTok about carsonization, which 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: I know, probably to a lot of people is like, Okay, 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: a TikTok, that's not that big a deal. I put 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: a lot of research intout it into my tiko talks, 32 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 2: like I've prepped for a long time for these stupid 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: little videos. I'm like, uh, and so. 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: I'm literally buying, like I had to buy a dongle 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: for my phone to like I gotta, I guess I 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: gotta start getting into TikTok and stuff. And so I'm like, 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: all right, but I gotta buy a phone dongle before 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: I get into TikTok. It's a whole process. Uh. You know, 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: I I have much respect for people who actually managed 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: to create TikTok videos. Hopefully I will join soon. I 41 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: will keep everyone posted on that. How how I struggle 42 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: with that back comes to fruition. 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: But struggle is the right word for it. 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: But Allen's already got those out, so check those out. 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: Uh on on her TikTok. Is that just a zoo 46 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: of us TikTok? Or is it under your names? 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just under my name. I've been kind of 48 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: doing it because I like post stuff about multiple podcasts 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: on there, so it's just kind of a catch all. Also, 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 2: I just like goof on there sometimes too, so I 51 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: don't I didn't want to feel like, oh, I post 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: this because it's a podcast account and I have to 53 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: stay relevant, and I'm like, no, I'm just gonna post 54 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: whatever inane thoughts jump into my head. 55 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny that you say that you couldn't 56 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: do that under the name of a podcast, but I 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: feel like I speak any inane thoughts I have on 58 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: my own podcast, So I'm not sure what you're talking about, 59 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: But yes, do check out Ellen Weatherford's TikTok. I'm sure 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: those are really fun. But yes, let's talk about lobsters 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,559 Speaker 1: getting high. Do you eat lobsters? 62 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: Ellen, I don't. I unfortunately as far as like culinary 63 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: experience goes, I might be the worst guest you could 64 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: have possibly picked to talk about. Like the enthusiasm and 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: the love is there, but unfortunately I don't eat any 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: seafood like fish, crustaceans, like shellfish, none of it. I 67 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: don't like any of it. 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: All of our crustacean listeners are just so excited. They're clapping, 69 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: they're pinching their claws, they're so happy. Gloriously, I've got 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: bad news for my crustacean listeners. I do occasionally eat lobster. 71 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm actually not like a huge fan of lobster. I 72 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: feel like it gets this Oh it's this fancy food 73 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: that you should eat because you're a fancy person, and 74 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: it's really great. 75 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: Has clout. 76 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: It's got clout. It's definitely got clout. But I think 77 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: it's fine. It's just fine. Like I think it's it's 78 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: only as good as sort of the butter or seasoning 79 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: right you put on it. 80 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 2: It's merely a vessel for the butter. 81 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: It's butter. 82 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: It's like a little spoon that you use to get 83 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: the butter into your mouth, because you can't just stick 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 2: your spoon and butter I mean you. 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: Can't pretty much. You can't more spoon and butter. There's 86 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: a certain amount of pride we have where we can't 87 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: do that. Someday maybe I will lose that ego and 88 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: be able to just to asto the butter. 89 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: But I had always heard that, even though now we 90 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: associate lobster with like being a very sort of like upscale, 91 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: bougie meal that originally and I don't know about originally, 92 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: but at least, you know, to the tune of over 93 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, lobster was like Sina's very sort 94 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: of like low class, you know, like it was like 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: the McDonald's of like seafood. 96 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: Weird sea bug. Yeah, I've heard that too, and I 97 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: think it's based on sort of the availability of the lobster. 98 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: So if you've got like a city next to you know, 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: a port, and people can just kind of go out 100 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: and grab some lobster and eat it because it's so. 101 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 2: It's that's free food, right, it's free food. 102 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: It's easily available. But then like when it when it's 103 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: like a little bit trickier to like you know, get 104 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: from point A to point B, then it becomes like 105 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: a fancy food because it's like, oh, imported, and lobster 106 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: also has to be kept alive before you consume it. 107 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: So that is that is well, we'll hit on why 108 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: in just a bit, But. 109 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: It seems like there are a lot of barriers between 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: the lobster being alive in the water and being in 111 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: your mouth. There are like it just seems like such 112 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 2: a hassle. 113 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: It is a hassle. I always was fascinated when I 114 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: was a kid by the live lobsters at Ralt's, the 115 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: grocery store. 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: I don't think I was terrified of them. I would 117 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: not walk anywhere near that lobster tank because they had 118 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: lobster tanks in publics, which anybody listening from Florida is 119 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: having a moment, because publics is a way of life. 120 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: I miss it dearly. I just moved to Washington. We 121 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: don't have them up here, and I miss them. But 122 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 2: they had a lobster tank that not only would I 123 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: like not willingly walk through the section of the store 124 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: it was in, but if we did have to walk 125 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: past the lobster tank, I would hold my breath wow 126 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: whole time until it was like out of eyesight. It 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: was smelly. But also I had a weird thing about 128 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: like not I don't know. It was like a weird 129 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 2: superstition almost that I didn't want to like breathe the 130 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: same air as the lobsters. 131 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Could sims become a lobster yourself, No, I know, I 132 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: know how that is. 133 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, the spores will kind of like like parasitically, You'll, yeah, 134 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: they'll get district Everyone knows about the spores. 135 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to get district nined. So uh No, I 136 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: love the lobsters. When I was a kid, I always 137 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: like I would fantasize about like getting on. I probably 138 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: asked my mom, like, can we keep one, like as 139 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: a pet? She said no. I thought maybe I could 140 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: keep it in the bathtub like in the Simpsons, you know, 141 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: Homer's pet lobster. I wanted to do that as a kid, 142 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: but that never came to fruition. 143 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: Like as a kid, in the United States, the only 144 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: time you see a live animal being sold in a 145 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: store is like a pet store, right, so when you 146 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: see one in a grocery store, there's the connection. You're like, 147 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: this is a pet. 148 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: I also like the idea of being the lobster's savior, 149 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: of preventing them from becoming food. 150 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Right, you want to have that Disney princess like for 151 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: and Gully moment. 152 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's why I used to buy feeder mice when 153 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: I was a kid and keep them as pets, because, 154 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: like I have saved you from the snake a terrible fate. 155 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: Feed and mice are so much cuter than lobster's Katie. 156 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: You can't pretend like that's the same thing. Have you 157 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: ever so cute? 158 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: Have you ever looked a lobster right into their rostrum 159 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and standing to their soul? 160 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: I can't say that. 161 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: I So there is this news story I think is 162 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 1: both really funny but also thought provoking. It is about 163 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: lobsters getting completely stoned before killing them in a pot 164 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: of boiling water. So I've always thought it was strange 165 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: that we don't just mercifully kill lobsters before boiling them. 166 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: I understand that lobsters are not the most intelligent animals, 167 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: but it is weird that like this assumption that it's like, well, 168 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: let's just boil them alive. I'm sure nothing's gonna happen there. 169 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: It's like, right, like that can't be it, that can 170 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: be the best way. 171 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: Right, Like I get they're not super smart. But I 172 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: it's weird to me to assume like they don't feel pain, 173 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: like I, I, you know, like I'll like eat fish, right, 174 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: But my assumption is fish can feel pain, and I don't, 175 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, like I would not want them to suffer, right, 176 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: I would want them to be quickly killed and not 177 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,359 Speaker 1: like you know, boiled alive. 178 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: And not like under the prolonged stress right, right, like 179 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: the absolute terror of they clearly know something's wrong and 180 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 2: that something bad is happening to them, even if they 181 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: couldn't physically feel it, right, which I mean, I don't know. 182 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: Maybe they can, maybe they can't, I don't know, but 183 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: either way, they're gonna be, like, you know, under a 184 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: period of extreme stress. 185 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean so there has been a debate 186 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: over the years as to whether lobsters can feel pain. 187 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: So tossing a lobster into boiling water can take up 188 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: to three minutes to kill the lobster, So if they 189 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: can feel pain and be consciously aware of that pain, 190 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: that would be pretty horrifying. In two thousand and five, 191 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: there was a Norwegian report to the Scientific Community for 192 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: Food Safety. It was reported by news outlets as finding 193 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: that quote lobsters don't feel pain and that their reaction 194 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: to painful stimuli are just reflexes. So I looked at 195 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: the actual report itself, not just like the news report 196 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: of the report, and so the scientific report was a 197 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: review of existing studies and animatomical knowledge about various invertebrates. 198 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,119 Speaker 1: It does not actually come to the conclusion about lobsters 199 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: not feeling pain. They're just very honest that they cannot 200 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: rule it out. They just say that there's no evidence 201 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: that lobsters consciously experience pain, and that their reactions to 202 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: boiling water like thrashing around could simply be unconscious reflexes. 203 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: But it's not this is speculation, it's not conclusive. They're 204 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: just saying there's no evidence that they do feel pain. 205 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: There's no evidence that they don't feel pain. They actually 206 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: call for more research on the subject of lobsters and 207 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: crabs feeling pain, concluding that it's unlikely that they feel pain, 208 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: but something that's understudied. 209 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, it makes me wonder if you put a 210 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: human in a vat of boiling water and solve that 211 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: so far panicking and thrashing on board, right, Like, you 212 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: could also interpret that as like a reflex, right, But 213 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that just because they're responding to the 214 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: pain physically doesn't mean that it's not like accompanied by 215 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: a sensation. And then at that point then the only 216 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: way you'd know if it was accompanied by a sensation 217 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 2: of pain, you'd have to talk to them. 218 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: Right the interview out of after the experience of like, so, 219 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: how was it being boiled alive? Personally? No, not a fan. 220 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy it. 221 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 2: Because like our responses to pain are also reflexes, yes, right, 222 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: Like it's not that far removed from how we respond 223 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: to pain, right. 224 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: I think the idea is that lobsters have such a 225 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: simple kind of brain situation where it's not like really 226 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: this like you know, it's got kind of this nervous 227 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: system that is structurally so different from ours that maybe 228 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: they don't have the same kind of consciousness that we do. 229 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: Their brains are of a neural bulb kind of situation. 230 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: But you're assuming a lot that they don't feel pain. 231 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: So there was actually a more recent review of literature 232 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: and report to the UK Government in twenty twenty one 233 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: which again looked at pain perception in invertebrates. They looked 234 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: at a variety of invertebrates, and so they found the 235 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: highest evidence of behavior that could be interpreted as responding 236 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: to pain in octopuses. Not a lot of surprise there. 237 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: Octopuses are clearly pretty intelligent. In a study, octopuses would 238 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: avoid tank chambers filled with an irritating acid and would 239 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: sink out chambers that contained an anesthetics. So octopuses showed 240 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: a very intelligent avoidance of pain. There was also a 241 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: study on crayfish, which are not lobsters, but they are 242 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: a crustacean, and they found that the crayfish would engage 243 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: in a stress response of hiding in dark, shadowy places 244 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: and would do this in response to pain stimuli. They 245 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: would also stop hiding when given anti anxiety medication. 246 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, so this. 247 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: Was interesting because wild crayfish are not the same thing 248 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: as lobsters. They are you know, similar, and they are crustaceans, 249 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: they're invertebrates. So it's a you know that I think 250 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: is the strongest evidence so far that lobsters may feel pain. 251 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: And you know, personally, I don't have like a really 252 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: strong opinion. I think that it's clear that lobsters and 253 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: crustaceans have a pain response. I strongly believe octopuses are 254 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: intelligent enough that they would feel pain and be consciously. 255 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 2: Awes Yeah, and octopuses also have the benefit of, I think, 256 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: being able to behave in a way that humans are 257 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 2: good at perceiving and understanding. Like we have a pretty 258 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: easy time seeing what an octopus is doing and kind 259 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: of getting it exactly sort of relate to I don't 260 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: know if it's because octopuses have a sort of like 261 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 2: I think maybe it's in the eyes. You can look 262 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: an octopus in the eyes and kind of like you 263 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: know what they're doing. Some of their structures are a 264 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: little more analogous to ours, so we can kind of 265 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: like get it. 266 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: But likes their tentacles are so flexible, they can do 267 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: such complicated things with them. We can see the complexity 268 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: of their behavior and their actions. 269 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas like a crustacean, you know, they may be 270 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: behaving in a way that like they know what they're doing, 271 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: but we might just have no way of knowing, Like, oh, 272 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: is that a response to pain? Is that just you know, 273 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: seeking out a dark spot because that's what their instinct is, 274 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: Like it's a little bit more difficult for us to 275 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: like parse what's going on in and crustacean behavior. Yeah, 276 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: but octopuses are like really good at sort of like communicating, 277 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: not intentionally, right, but like what they do is kind 278 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: of easy to be understood by humans. 279 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's absolutely true. And yeah, I mean, 280 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: lobster and crab nerves systems are you know, very simple, 281 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: They're very different from ours, and they are structurally very 282 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: different in certain ways that I think they are able 283 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to do things that a human being could not do 284 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: without like you know, completely breaking down, like tearing off 285 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: their own limbs to escape predators. So like the fact 286 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: that their nervous system is so different, there's like it's possible, 287 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: right that they have an evolutionary advantage to not being 288 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: consciously aware of pain so that they can do this 289 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: self amputation behavior. True. Yeah, and it's true that the 290 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: thrashing around in water the lobster could be that could 291 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: just be a reflex of course. Also the screaming that 292 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: people talk about hearing, you know, like when that like 293 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: high pitched sort of wine when you put a lobster 294 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: in the water, that is just s deemon escaping. It's 295 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: not the lobster screaming but I also think that we 296 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: really don't know that they can can't feel pain, and 297 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: even biologists too seem to be less convinced that they 298 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: can feel pain, typically point out that we don't have 299 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: the capability to know, and that they're just kind of 300 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: making an assumption given what we do know. So I 301 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: feel like ethically it's better to assume that they might 302 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: be able to feel pain. Like, I'm not against eating 303 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: lobster necessarily, I just think that like boiling them alive 304 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: is messed up. 305 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: It feels that like it doesn't feel good. 306 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think it's like, again, I'm not a vegetarian, 307 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: but I think that there is a middle ground between 308 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: like being a vegetarian, which is great. I think it's 309 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: great to be a vegetarian. I'm not not at all 310 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: against against being a vegetarian or just not caring about animals. 311 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: I think that like you can both like you don't 312 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: want to eat like lobster or fish or something, and 313 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: then but also care about their treatment up until they're 314 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: on your plate. 315 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can want it to be done ethically, Yeah, 316 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: sustainable exactly. 317 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: So I am very excited to talk about a chef 318 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: who has thought about this problem, and her decision is 319 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: to get her lobsters absolutely baked, and by baked, I 320 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: mean high as heck. We're going to take a quick 321 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: break and when we get back, we are going to 322 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: talk about these super high lobsters. Excellent, all right, So 323 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the chef who gets her 324 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: lobster's absolutely displaze it. 325 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 2: You've heard of rock lobster, Now get ready for stoned lobster. 326 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: Nice. Nice. So this chef, chronicled in an article on 327 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: National Geographic, really sympathizes with lobsters despite cooking and eating them, 328 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: which I respect. Charlotte Gill, which is an amazing name 329 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: for someone who is a chef who sympathizes with. 330 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: A quest seafood. Yes, that's amazing. 331 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: Charlotte Gill can't invent a better name. Wanted to come 332 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: up with a technique to reduce the experience of pain 333 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: for lobsters before checking them into boiling water, so she 334 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: hot boxed her lobsters in a plastic box filled with 335 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: pot smoke marijuana smoke, so then they seemed to relax. 336 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: She claims that the lobster meat actually tasted better and 337 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: that after eating copious amounts of lobster. Drug tests revealed 338 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: no marijuana in the human lobster eater's piece, so you 339 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: can't get marijuana in your system from eating a high lobster. 340 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: Apparently she tested this on her dad too, which is 341 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: like that must have been one proud dad to be like, 342 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: my daughter is giving me high lobsters. 343 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 2: Also like just to just like be a part of 344 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: like your child's basically like grown up science fair experiment. 345 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: Where you get to get a lobster from a chef. 346 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: Ye great. So the Health Department of Maine unfortunately did 347 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: shut that down because I guess in main, hot boxing 348 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: lobsters is not like an approved food additive. 349 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: There can't possibly already be a law about that. I 350 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: mean like that this has to be like an air bud, 351 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: like it's not technically in the rules situation. 352 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: I think it's that when it comes to the FDA 353 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: and food additives, it has to be in the rules. 354 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: You can't just discover a new food additive and start 355 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: selling it before they can quickly like write up a 356 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: lot against it. It's like I just I just found 357 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: some alien organism and I'm gonna put it in my fries, 358 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: and it's like, no, you can't do that, unfortunately, So 359 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: instead she uses valerian root, which is supposed to have 360 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: a somewhat similar effect, which she mixes with water and 361 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: soaks them in instead of like it being a hot 362 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: boxing thing, it's like a valerian root bath. 363 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: Is that not some thing from Skyrim? That's a real plant? 364 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: I thought that was playing Skyrim. 365 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: It does sound like it's from Skyrim, but it's a 366 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: real plant. But yeah, apparently it has some kind of 367 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: anti anxiety, pain soothing properties, and like, yeah, I but 368 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: I am still I am still in favor of getting 369 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: the lobster's high at eating them. So I hope that 370 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: at some point we do make like getting high and 371 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: a food additive that is approved by the FDA. 372 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: So I'm just wondering how the behavior of a lobster 373 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: when high could differ at all from the behavior of 374 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: just a regular lobster, because like, it can't be that. 375 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: Start talking incessantly about Martin Scorsese films and like you 376 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: got to see him. It's like, no, I know, he's 377 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: a good director. And then they're like, no, you don't understand. 378 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: You have to see it. You have to watch all 379 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: of these movies. 380 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: They listen to a lot of pink Floyd. 381 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, But yeah, I I love this chef. 382 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: This is very interesting and I'm definitely not gonna say 383 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: no to getting lobsters high. But I think the obvious 384 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: question is why don't we simply kill lobsters before boiling them? Right? Like, 385 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: why don't we have like a little lobster guillotine and 386 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: just you know, quickly kill them before boiling them so 387 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: that you know, it seems like that would be the 388 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: easiest solution. 389 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: I would think, So is there a reason why you don't? 390 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 2: Is there a reason there is? 391 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: It's a little questionable though. So apparently when you kill 392 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: a lobster, bacteria and their flesh can rapidly multiply, which 393 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: are not killed in the boiling process. So this bacteria 394 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: is apparently resilient enough to not die after being boiled. 395 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: I am not a food scientist, so, but like, I 396 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: don't see how killing them immediately before putting them in 397 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: the boiling water, like seconds before would be much different 398 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: in terms of backterial growth versus just like letting the 399 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: boiling water kill them. I wasn't really able to It. 400 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: Just has to be like the ussane bolt of bacterias. 401 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: Right right, exactly. I mean I wasn't this. I mean, someone, please, 402 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: if you if you study lobsters, or you study food 403 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: and bacteria, please send me if you have found a 404 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: study that shows any difference in terms of bacterial growth 405 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: of like killing the lobster first, or like boiling in alive. 406 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Don't do the study yourself, because I don't want to 407 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: subject more lobsters to like pain. But if there is 408 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: an existing study, I really want to see it. I 409 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: don't see how such a study could like get past 410 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: the ethics board. But I mean, we also eat lobster 411 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: all the time. Anyways, It's complicated. 412 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: Now. It seems like from some of the scientific studies 413 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 2: I've read, the ethics Board seems surprisingly chill about torturing animals. 414 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes sometimes yeah, sometimes they're like that's fine, you could 415 00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 2: do a little torture. 416 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna name any names, but I had a 417 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: professor who had a student who did a study where 418 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: they kept like drowning hamsters, and uh, it was like 419 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: not intentional yet it was not. It was not like 420 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: she made no attempt to not drown the hamsters. It 421 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: was it was the thing is like she was recreating 422 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: a study that involved like it was a study that 423 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: was originally done on rats, and she was tweaking the study, 424 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: which is very common, right, you take a study design 425 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: and you tweak it to try to get some new finding. 426 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: But instead of using rats, she used hamsters. And hamsters 427 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: are not good swimmers. Rats are much better swimmers, and so. 428 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: These hamsters are desert animals. 429 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so these poor hamsters kept drowning, and then like 430 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: this professor like eventually stepped in was like, why is 431 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: there a basketfull of dead wet hamsters and she's. 432 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: Not the hamsters. 433 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: And then she's like she had to shut that down 434 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: because it's like, stop drowning the hamsters. What are you doing? Anyways? 435 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: So some people wonder why science has such a dark 436 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 2: perception yea in the general pubblic. 437 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this was this was definitely a horror story. 438 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: This was it was meant as a cautionary tale of like, 439 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: please respect the animals that you are studying and minimize 440 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: any casualties or suffering. Uh, and like yeah, so it 441 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: is not it's but unfortunately, yeah, sometimes that does happen. So, uh, 442 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't know who trusted a u A. I don't 443 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: remember if she was like an undergrad or a grad student, 444 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: but anyway, she should not have been trusted with so 445 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: many hamsters. You gotta start questioning when they keep like 446 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: buying more hamsters, like why are you. 447 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 2: Buying I used to work at a pet store, and 448 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: that was one of the things that we are like 449 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: trained to refuse service, was that if someone kept repeatedly 450 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: coming into the store and like buying a bunch of like, 451 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: you know, hamsters or gerbils or something like that, there 452 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: was a point where we were supposed to stop selling 453 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: to that. 454 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: Clear, I think you've cutting you off of classical. But yeah, 455 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: in terms of lobsters, there are chefs who kill lobsters 456 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: before boiling them. They stick a sharp knife in their 457 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: heads right before putting them in the water. I know 458 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: that sounds brutal, but to me that is far more merciful. 459 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: Like it is I've seen like the I've seen the 460 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 2: chefs that take the giant shears and cut the head 461 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: off the craft. Yes, right, and like that doesn't seem 462 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 2: that bad, right, If it's like a quick and simple 463 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 2: little like you know, before they even know what's going on, 464 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: that's got to be better than three minutes of boiling. 465 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: It's got to be better. I think I remember like 466 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: a Hell's Kitchen or Top Chef at As where Gordon 467 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: Ramsay is like yelling at someone because they were trying 468 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: to boil their crab before killing it. Uh so you know, 469 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think that like sharp knife right 470 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: in sort of that neural bulb right before putting in 471 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: the water, seems like that should be fine. In fact, 472 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: in Switzerland, New Zealand and Reggio Emilia, Italy, you are 473 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: required to knock out lobsters before boiling them, either with 474 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: an electric shock or knife in the brain. So there 475 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: are places. 476 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: So they've already they've already done this work. It sounds like. 477 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: It sounds like and again I still I have not 478 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: been able to find studies that like establish that somehow 479 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: the bacteria is able to grow between that period and 480 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, the three minutes that it takes for them 481 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: to boil. 482 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: Really they don't seem to be worried about it. 483 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: Seemed to be fine. So right, Look, if you. 484 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 2: Want to get a bacteria thing as a cover by 485 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: big lobster. 486 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: Torture, big lobster torch, sure, Look if you want to 487 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: get lobsters high. Like, I think that's great. I just 488 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: think this much awesome. 489 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: Keep doing that. 490 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: That is so awesome. I approve of that regardless if 491 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna eat them or not. 492 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: Just do it for fun. Do it for fun, like 493 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 2: live a little. 494 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: Go out to the ocean and start handed out spliffs 495 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: by the seaside. But like, you know, I think that 496 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: this is something that seems like we already have a 497 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: good solution for. I'm not sure why we're not doing 498 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: it again. If anyone has, like knows of any studies 499 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: or research about bacterias somehow growing in a lobster that 500 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: like minutes after you kill it, let me know it 501 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: seems fine, It seems fine. I'm but I'm again, I'm 502 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: not a food scientist, so I'm not gonna tell you 503 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: to like go out try try this at home, unless 504 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: you're a chef. I would personally leave it to the 505 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: trained chefs. And terms of. 506 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: Please don't ingest anything based on the recommendations of this. 507 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: Podcast exactly, Please please don't like yeah, just like you know, 508 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: just keep them as pets. That's what I'm saying. That's 509 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: the responsible. 510 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 2: Friend to do, and then you can smoke together that's right. 511 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 2: You gotta smoking buddy stream joint rotation. 512 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: They can even clip it off for you. Really good 513 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: at rolling. 514 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: Them, but you'd have to roll it for them because 515 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: they get their pictures. 516 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think have you ever seen how 517 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: dexterous they can be with those little those little pictures 518 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: and their little their little mandibles. I think they could 519 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: do it anyways. 520 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: You couldn't. They couldn't use a bong though, because there 521 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: they would break it. 522 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: I think there's probably a few more problems than that. 523 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: But yes, that's right, lobsters can't. 524 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: I'm trying to imagine where you would hold it. 525 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: This is a good an tied drug message. Kids, lobsters 526 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: can't use bongs? Why should you stay at school? All right, 527 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: So we are gonna take a quick break, and when 528 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: we get back, we're gonna talk about the crabs behind 529 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: a famous disappearance. So since we've talked about eating crustaceans, 530 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: I think it's only fair to talk about crustaceans eating us. 531 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: You know, turn around, they're events there. It's fair play. Specifically, 532 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: the question of what happened to Amelia Earhart? Did she 533 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: get eaten by coconut crabs? Question mark. 534 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. This is one of those things that 535 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: I've seen floating around on the internet for a while, 536 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: and I initially just accepted it fully and completely uncritically 537 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: in my brain. I was like, oh, yeah, that's definitely 538 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: for sure true, and then haven't really looked any further 539 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: into at all. So I'm very excited about whatever you're 540 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: going to say next. 541 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: Yes, So, first, who was Amelia Earhart? I say to 542 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: the zoomers who don't know anything about anything, I'm joking, zoomers, 543 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: you're great, You're smart. 544 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 2: I never learned anything about Amelia Earhart in any class 545 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: I ever took in my life. 546 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean I learned that she flew planes, but not 547 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: good enough apparently. 548 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: Because uh uh skill issue. 549 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: So Amelia Earhart famously went missing on a flight with 550 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: her navigator, Fred Noonan. That's another thing I think most 551 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,239 Speaker 1: people imagine it is just Amelia Earhart going missing. Her 552 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: navigator Fred Noonan, who was also her friend, also went 553 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: missing on July second, nineteen thirty seven. The International Group 554 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: for Historic Aircraft Recovery or TIGHAR is a nonprofit full 555 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: of extreme aviation nerds or experts. If whatever you want 556 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: to say obsessed with solving aviation mysteries, including the mystery 557 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: of Earhart's disappearance, over many many years analysis and collecting evidence. 558 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: Their current theory is this, so ear Heart and Noonan 559 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: were unable to find their target, which was Howland Island 560 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: in the South Pacific, they continued on their planned flight 561 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: trajectory and ended up landing or crashing on Nikumuroro Island. There, 562 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: either ear Heart and Noonan lived as castaways or Nonan 563 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: may have died, while Earhart lived as a castaway alone. 564 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: She may have survived living on rain squalls for water 565 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: and small fish, birds and clams for food. It's assumed 566 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: the plane floated off. This is based on things like 567 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: finding clamshells and like there was some reports that they're like, so, 568 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: like Navy search planes did actually fly over this island 569 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: and they saw signs of recent habitation, but they assumed 570 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: the islands were all inhabited. So they're like, oh, that's 571 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: not news because like these islands are. 572 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: Inhabited, but this is sure just the people that live there. 573 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: Right exactly. But Niko Maruro hadn't been inhabited since eighteen 574 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: ninety two, so that may have been Amelia Earhart, which 575 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: is really tragic, right, like this near miss, they might 576 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: they could have found her if they had been a 577 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: little smarter about knowing which islands were inhabited. 578 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: And that was her target, right, like she was trying 579 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 2: to get to that island. 580 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: No, they were trying to get to Howland island. Oh, 581 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: that's not her target. Oh. It was only later in 582 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: nineteen forty that the British found human bones. They only 583 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: found about thirteen bones. So if that was that's not 584 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: all of them, that's not all of them. We've got 585 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: more than that. I forgot how many a human has, 586 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: but it's much more than that. 587 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: It's more than thirteen, much sure, many more than thirteen. 588 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: So if that was Earhart or Noonans skeleton, what happened 589 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: to the rest of the bones? Well, this island is 590 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: uninhabited by humans, but guess who lives there. 591 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 2: Giant crab ubs A billion giant crabs. 592 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: So many giant crabs. So Coconut crabs are massive terrestrial 593 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: crabs that can grow over ten pounds or four point 594 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: five kilograms and are over three feet around a meter 595 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: in diameter. They're big, their claws have an enormous amount 596 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: of pinch potential. They are ten times that of a 597 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: human's grip, and they can crush bones or crack open coconuts. 598 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,239 Speaker 1: They will pretty much eat anything they can get their 599 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: claws on coconuts, other crabs, birds who are too slow, 600 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: and carrion. So say you have the body of a 601 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: famous aviatrix on an island of unfussy power crabs who 602 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: eat dead things and can crunch bones. Do I need 603 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: to do the maths? 604 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 2: Open and shutcase? 605 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: Boys, So remember Tighar, the group of extreme aviation nerds 606 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: who look into aviation mysteries and disappearances. Research by Tighar 607 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: on coconut crabs and pig carcasses show that they are 608 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: happy to drag bones off as a snack. Tig Car 609 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: is very dedicated to solving this mystery. They went to 610 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: this island brought a bunch of pig carcasses, so. 611 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 2: They're taking a misbuster's approach to the whole thing pretty much. 612 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: So, the theory is that your heart died either of 613 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: the elements or some kind of injury. Probably she wasn't 614 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: murdered by the crabs. Probably. I've never seen any evidence 615 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: she was not murdered by the crabs, but I feel like, 616 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: you've never. 617 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 2: Heard of these crabs attacking a person. 618 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: Don't think they would attack a live person. I think 619 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: you'd have to either be dead or very close to 620 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: being dead. It's immobile, it yeah, which is terrifying. I 621 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: really doubt I think she would probably be dead. So 622 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: now it is a scavenger hunt for crab burrows to 623 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: see if they can find like a secret stash of 624 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: Amelia your heart's bones. It's like the world's most gruesome 625 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: to egg hunt, Like, hey, can we find a crab 626 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: burrow and find some bones in there? So, as far 627 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: as I know, they are still on the hunt for 628 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: a crab burrow with Amelia earharts the rest of the 629 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: bones in it, So you know, I'll keep you updated. 630 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 2: I wonder is there like any particular way they would 631 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 2: know if it was her bones specifically, or like, yeah, 632 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: I'm just some bones. 633 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would basically be like, are 634 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: these the bones of a woman? Of this? You know? Oh? 635 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 2: Sure? 636 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: It's also not necessarily super easy to like figure out 637 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: whether bones are male or female, but you can usually 638 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: like size the size of the person. I think is 639 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: probably the best way to do the items. 640 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 2: I guess like how recent they'd be. 641 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that too, you could, like you could definitely date 642 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: date the bones, not take the bones on the date, 643 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: but date them. 644 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: Up for yourself. 645 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big fan of your uh your work. 646 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: Amelia sitting across jaw. 647 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 2: Falls backs at. 648 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: Uh, poor poor Amelia Earhart. I I I joke because 649 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: of course this is about crabs carrying bones, which is 650 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,479 Speaker 1: inherently hard not to joke about. But it's just really 651 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: sad because it's like, you know, it seems very likely 652 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: that she uh spent some time on this island, probably alone, 653 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: you know, and died in a way that is really 654 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: no one deserves to have to go through that where 655 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: it's just you know, the elements and you know, it's like, 656 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: I think that's something that happened whenever you like investigate 657 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: these mysteries, like once you get to the root of it, 658 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: you're like, you know, this was like a real person, 659 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: and yeah, that that's really really upsetting, like you know, yeah, 660 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: And then, not. 661 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 2: To disparage the air heart, the real die hard Earhart 662 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 2: fans out there, the fandom community aheads, I think that 663 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 2: it is. 664 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: I don't blame people for being intensely curious it's it's 665 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: a very interesting mystery. I don't think there's anything like 666 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, I think that in this tig hard group, 667 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: I think is very very respectful of the fact that 668 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: this was a human being. But the crabs certainly are 669 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: not respectful on that fact. They're carrying bones hiding them. 670 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: The crabs are like, oh, look, this giant bag of 671 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 2: meat just yeah, showed up on our beach. 672 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: Like sounds great, crabs, I don't. I'm not saying we 673 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: should be mean to crabs, but I'm saying if the 674 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 1: shoe is on the other, pincer like crabs would not 675 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: be getting us high before boiling us and eating us. 676 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: They might do us the decency of chopping our head 677 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: off first. That's like a quick snap. 678 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: I don't think it'd be quick snap. I think it'd 679 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: be a series of horrible pinches. 680 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 2: Based on what I know about arthropod like behavior, a 681 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 2: lot of like insect like predatory insects and spiders and stuff. Uh, 682 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 2: if they're up against something that is going to put 683 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 2: up a fight, a lot of times they will go 684 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 2: directly for like an immobilizing strike of some kind of 685 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 2: first like they'll try to like rip off the head 686 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 2: or snip the neck or something like that. So if 687 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 2: you're like able to fight back, they might at least 688 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: try to like put you out of your misery first, 689 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: just to make it easier for them to eat you, 690 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 2: so that you're not like inconveniencing them while they're doing it. 691 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: Counterpoint, I don't recommend you look at a video of 692 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: a coconut crab eating a bird. 693 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: I won't be doing that. I don't think I'm going 694 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 2: to be. 695 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: Doing It's not great. Yeah, I mean, I think their 696 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: their pinch strength is just so like good that they 697 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: don't need to worry too much about something escaping, and 698 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: thus they're not always the most merciful when it comes 699 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: to eating birds. 700 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 2: Also, like they're not the they're not the villain in 701 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 2: the story, right, Like it's it's unlikely that they like 702 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: dealt the killing blow or anything like that. Probably didn't 703 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 2: like kill her, no, But also like they were just 704 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 2: doing their role as like scavengers. Yeah, of course, like 705 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 2: their role is to like clean up the ecosystem by 706 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 2: like picking up decaying material, so they were kind of 707 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: doing what they were supposed to be doing. No, it's 708 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 2: just a little gruesome. 709 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: It's a little gruesome. But I think you know again, 710 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: they they're just doing They're just doing their stuff. The 711 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: real villain is probably like Gang Green or bacteria. To 712 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: be honest, Hubris, sure that too. Well, before we go, 713 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: we've got to play a little game. Ellen, are you 714 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: ready for the Mystery animal sound game? Guess who's squawking? 715 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 2: I'm so excited. That's my favorite part. 716 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: Every week I kick a mystery animal sound in. You 717 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: the listener, and you, the guest, try to guess who 718 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: is making that sound. It can be any animal in 719 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: the world. So last week's Mystery Animals sound hint was this. 720 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: She may seem to have a tough exterior, but Betsy 721 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: here does not like to be bothered. 722 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 2: S hum. It sounds like a beetle of some kind, 723 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 2: maybe with a small but like the it sounds like 724 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 2: the stridulation of like a bug or like a beetle 725 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 2: or something. Is it a beetle? You are absolutely I 726 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 2: don't know how granular when you don't get you're right. 727 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: This is the stridulation of a beetle. This is a 728 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: best beetle, aka a Betsy beetle. So congratulations to you 729 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: and also to Auntie Bee who guessed correctly. There are 730 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: actually many species of best beetle in North America. Best 731 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: beetles are unusual among beetles in that they are relatively 732 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: social and very vocal. So yeah, they will live in 733 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: groups in rotting wood. They care for their young. They 734 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: also have to eat their on poop or the poop 735 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,919 Speaker 1: of other adult best beetles once it's been broken down 736 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: by microscopic organisms to fully get the nutritional benefits of 737 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: their meals. So that's fun. I always love a poop eater. 738 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 2: They're the drunk bachelorette party girls of the beetle world. 739 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 2: Unusually social and very vocal. Unusually social and very vocal. 740 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: And eating crap. Yes. So they are remarkable because they 741 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: have a large sound repertoire. Depending on the species, they 742 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: can have around fourteen distinct type of calls used in 743 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: various social contexts, from courtship to aggression to feeding. One 744 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: species even has a post aggression call when they start 745 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: doing little push ups to indicate that the fight is over, 746 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: which is adorable. The sound that you just heard is 747 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: likely a disturbance sound, the protests they make when disturbed. 748 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 2: Just being disturbed by the camera. 749 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: On Yeah, like like not not exactly happy to be 750 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: disturbed so on. 751 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 2: That would be really funny if like every recording of 752 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 2: this beetle was just the like basically like the get 753 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 2: that microphone away from me sound for me. 754 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, just just the way that the you know, the 755 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: look that Ben Affleck has every time the paparazzi takes 756 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 1: a photo of them. 757 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 2: Are He's just over it? This is that. 758 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: This is the sound fit Affleck make when the paparazzi 759 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: is like annoying him. So onto this week's mystery animal sound. 760 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: The hint is this, Please chew with your mouth closed, Bruce, 761 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: all right? Can you get to you as making that sound? 762 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,280 Speaker 2: Huh? That was There was like two components to that sound, 763 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 2: and the squeak was a jump scare. It sounds like 764 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 2: some kind of rodent to me. Uh, I'm assuming that 765 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 2: the Bruce part is a part of the clue, but 766 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 2: it's not whatever. It's not connecting any dots in my brain. 767 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,439 Speaker 2: So it sounds like some type of little squirrel maybe 768 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 2: I'm saying, maybe like a ground squirrel. 769 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: Interesting, interesting guests, Well, we will find out next week 770 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: who is making this sound. If you out there think 771 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 1: you know, send me your guesses at Creature Feature Pod 772 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also send me your questions. 773 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: I occasionally do a listener questions episode and so I 774 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: love receiving questions from you guys. Ellen, Where can people 775 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: find you? 776 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 2: I am on I'm most active on TikTok these days, 777 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 2: and it's just my name Ellen doot Weather for with 778 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 2: my hand on there, where I post a lot of 779 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 2: tiktoks about, you know, animal facts and evolution and the 780 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 2: fine things that I find interesting. I have two podcasts. 781 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 2: One of them is Just the Zoo of Us. It 782 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 2: is a podcast where we review animals. It's either me 783 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 2: and my husband or Meat and a guest. Katie has 784 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: been a guest on if you want to listen to 785 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 2: us talk about cuckoo wasps. That was really really fun. 786 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 2: That's a great starting point there, and that one is 787 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 2: family friendly, so anybody can listen any age. And I 788 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 2: have another podcast that I haven't put out an episode 789 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 2: on recently because I have been in the middle of 790 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 2: moving across the country, but it's gonna start back up 791 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 2: here really soon. It's called Spellbound and Gagged and it's 792 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 2: about all things weird and gross and with bad vibes. 793 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 2: That you still like morbidly want to learn about. 794 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: Like crabs eating Amelia at your Heart. 795 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 2: Yes, haven't dedicated a whole episode to that, but I'm 796 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 2: sure we will at some point. But Katie's also been 797 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 2: a guest on that where we talked about our favorite parasites. 798 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 2: So if you wanted to check that out, that's on 799 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 2: Spellbound and Gag. That one is not family friendly. We 800 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 2: do say cussing. 801 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: We hate your families on that one. 802 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 2: No family family is allowed. 803 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: I highly recommend both of those podcasts, not just because 804 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: I've been a guest on them, but because they're great. 805 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: So do you check them out? And thank you guys 806 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: so much for listening. If you're enjoying the show and 807 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,439 Speaker 1: you want to write a rating or review, I read 808 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: every single written review and I deeply appreciate every rating. 809 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: It really does help the podcast. It makes me feel 810 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: good thanks to the space Cossics, where there's super awesome 811 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: song XO. Lumina Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For 812 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit the 813 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or guess what more of you 814 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I don't judge you do 815 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 1: what you want, you know, carry off Amelia Earharts Films. 816 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: That's all right, it's not, it's not. Don't do that 817 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: bad hop box, bad draps, hot box a lobster. There 818 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: you go. I'm not a lawyer, so don't. This is 819 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: not legal. 820 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 2: Advice, all right. Definitely only hot box a lobster. If 821 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 2: it's legal where you live. 822 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: You're right, exactly. Check your local laws. See if it's 823 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: legal to hot box a lobster. All right, see you 824 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: next Wednesday.