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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 3: That is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do

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Speaker 3: we have personal?

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do lots of interesting news breaking this morning.

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Speaker 1: First of all Biden responding to quessions about his age

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Speaker 1: and also new rumors that perhaps he's not really going

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Speaker 1: to run for president after all. So we'll go back

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Speaker 1: to you and we've got some numbers to break down

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Speaker 1: all of that. Also, the press is actually discussing the

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Speaker 1: problem of eruption in Ukraine. We'll give you all the

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Speaker 1: parameters and guidelines of when you're allowed to discuss such things.

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Speaker 1: We've been given the green light just for today only basically,

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Speaker 1: so we'll dig into all of that. Also, Burning Man

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Speaker 1: becomes drowning Man as the festival turns somewhat disastrous, but

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Speaker 1: it looks like folks are leaving and have left now,

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Speaker 1: so we'll break that down for you. Trump with a

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Speaker 1: long diatribe against electric vehicles, so that's interesting to react

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Speaker 1: to that. In Bill Maher with quite a take on

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Speaker 1: the writer's strike. We also have author Freddie Debor has

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Speaker 1: a new book that I'm very excited to dig into

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Speaker 1: with him. It's called How Elites Ate the Social Justice Movement,

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Speaker 1: So he will be joining us this morning as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're really excited for all of that, and thank

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Speaker 2: you again to all of our premusubscribers who've been signing up,

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Speaker 2: who've been helping us out. We have got that focus

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Speaker 2: group in the works, guys. We're really excited about it.

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Speaker 2: We're in the final stages. We'll be able to bring

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Speaker 2: that to everybody very very soon. It's can be in

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Speaker 2: a battleground state. We've got people from all over the

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Speaker 2: political spectrum within the Republican Party undecided and all this

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Speaker 2: are working with a very professional firm. This stuff does cost, though,

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Speaker 2: a hell of a lot of money, I said, in

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Speaker 2: order to produce this type of content. So if you

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Speaker 2: are able to Breakingpoints dot Com become a premium subscribers.

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Speaker 2: You guys are really helping us out at this time.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into Biden.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, so there are some new DC insider rumors that

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Speaker 1: perhaps Joe Biden is not going to complete the presidential campaign,

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Speaker 1: maybe he's going to step aside, someone else is going

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Speaker 1: to jump in. I've always been skeptical of this, but

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Speaker 1: those rumors have been renewed, and we also have some

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Speaker 1: new numbers that are pretty dire about how people, including Democrats,

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Speaker 1: feel about Joe Biden's age. He clearly, over the Labor

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Speaker 1: Day weekend felt compelled to respond to some of this

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Speaker 1: critique of some of these rumors. Let's take a listen

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Speaker 1: to what he had to say.

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Speaker 4: Someone said, you know that Biden didn't getting old, man.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you what, Well, guess what. Guess what I

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Speaker 4: tell you know? The only thing that comes Today's a

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Speaker 4: little bit of wisdom, Hi, Bob. I've been doing this

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Speaker 4: longer on anybody, and that, guys, what I'm going to

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Speaker 4: continue to do.

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Speaker 5: With your help, going to continue to do it with

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Speaker 5: your health.

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Speaker 3: Wisdom, dementia, risk of death.

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, again, I don't want to be unkind,

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Speaker 2: but how can we be sitting here, you know, in

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Speaker 2: the age of watching this man clearly on the decline

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Speaker 2: over the last several years, on top of the Mitch

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Speaker 2: McConnell incident and the Diane Feinstein incident, and not say

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Speaker 2: that age is not the most real concern that there

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Speaker 2: really is about Joe Iidadley. Even put the policy and

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Speaker 2: all that other side, there's basically no defense of it,

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Speaker 2: which is why most people aren't even able to acknowledge it,

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Speaker 2: you know, Crystal, In my opinion, the only reason that

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Speaker 2: the media is even able or even has to address

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Speaker 2: this is because poll after poll after poll shows that

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Speaker 2: it is the number one concern, not just of all voters,

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Speaker 2: but even of the vast majority of Democratic voters.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have a little little prediction to make here

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Speaker 1: based on our past experience in twenty twenty, when there

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Speaker 1: was a period of time where it was okay to

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Speaker 1: talk about his decline, it was okay to talk about

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Speaker 1: his age. And then once it was clear that you know,

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Speaker 1: Pete or Kamala or Beto or whoever the other media

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Speaker 1: candidates you know, were weren't going to succeed, then suddenly

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Speaker 1: you couldn't talk about it. You know, it was ablest,

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Speaker 1: this is just his stutter, etc. And so I think

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Speaker 1: we'll see a similar thing. There's still some wish casting

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Speaker 1: right now in the media that maybe he'll step aside,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll get the candidate of our dreams, Pete Bootage

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And so some of this talk is allowed.

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Speaker 1: And also to your point, I mean, the poll numbers

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Speaker 1: are just overwhelming and sort of indisputable and undeniable, so

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Speaker 1: it is kind of hard to avoid. We've also seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of reporting about how internally, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: know that this is an issue, they've been brainstorming, or

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Speaker 1: how do we attack it, how do we address it,

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Speaker 1: how do we perhaps use humor to get around this,

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Speaker 1: Maybe we channel sort of Ronald Reagan?

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Speaker 5: How do we do these things?

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Speaker 1: I would actually feel totally different about this issue if

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Speaker 1: Biden was willing to subject himself to a just regular

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Speaker 1: democratic process, subject himself to a bunch of interviews, including

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Speaker 1: some contentious interviews, not just like puff pieces with wellness

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Speaker 1: experts or whatever. If he would do debates and put

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Speaker 1: himself out on stage, and then people can judge for themselves,

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Speaker 1: you know, because age is one factor weighed against a

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Speaker 1: whole variety of other factors, and Donald Trump is no

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Speaker 1: young man himself, so there's a lot to consider here.

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Speaker 1: It's not like this is the determintive one and only thing,

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Speaker 1: But you're not even giving people the chance to really

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Speaker 1: assess how you are and whether or not you're truly

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Speaker 1: up to the job. So I would feel differently about

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Speaker 1: these things if he was willing to subject himself truly

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Speaker 1: to the rigors of a real democratic process, but he

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Speaker 1: is in and by the way, Trump isn't either from

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Speaker 1: what we've seen thus far with him skipping his debates.

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Speaker 1: Nate Silver had a good write up just looking at

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Speaker 1: the numbers of you know, is this a legitimate issue.

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Speaker 1: Is there a big difference between the age that Biden

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Speaker 1: was when he started, between the age that Trump is

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Speaker 1: versus where Biden is now versus where Biden will be

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Speaker 1: when if he finishes the second term. Let's go and

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Speaker 1: put this up on the screen, and basically, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at the numbers here effectively the actuary

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Speaker 1: ial tables, it makes a big difference. You can see

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Speaker 1: the way that the chance of death in the upcoming

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Speaker 1: year basically skyrockets, especially over the age of eighty.

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Speaker 5: So you see this chart.

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Speaker 1: This depicts the annual risk of death or an American

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Speaker 1: non Hispanic white male, which applies to both by Nan

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Speaker 1: Trump in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty cording to the

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Speaker 1: CDC at age seventy and just keep this up on

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Speaker 1: the screen, guys, so people have the visual at age

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Speaker 1: seventy and eight, Silver rights Trump's age when he was

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Speaker 1: inaugurated for his first term. The risk of death in

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Speaker 1: the upcoming year for a white American man is two

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Speaker 1: point four percent, so not nothing, but you know, on

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Speaker 1: the lower side, by age seventy eight, that'll be Trump's

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Speaker 1: age in twenty twenty five, that risk has roughly doubled

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Speaker 1: to almost five percent.

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Speaker 5: At eighty two.

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Speaker 1: Biden's age if he is reinaugurated in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: it's increased further to seven point three percent. And the

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Speaker 1: risk of dying in a given year is eleven percent

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Speaker 1: by age eighty six, which would be Biden's age at

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Speaker 1: the end of his second term.

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Speaker 5: So by the.

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Speaker 1: Time his second term would be over, he would have

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Speaker 1: a more than one in ten chance of dying in

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Speaker 1: that year. This is a serious consideration, especially when you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about, all right, who's the vice presidential Canada, how

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Speaker 1: I feel about that person. Furthermore, according to the Alzheimer's Association,

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Speaker 1: this age rain is also associated with a sharp increase

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Speaker 1: in Alzheimer's dementia, which by the way, was a concern

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Speaker 1: and a valid one in Ronald Reagan's second term. So

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Speaker 1: Nate Silver basically making the case here that voters are

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Speaker 1: worried about it, and they're not long to be worried

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Speaker 1: about it. And just to underscore how much voters are

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Speaker 1: worried about it, put this next chart up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: We can see three fourths of US adults say Biden

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Speaker 1: is too old for a second term. It is overwhelming

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Speaker 1: among Republicans certainly eighty nine percent. It's overwhelming among independence

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Speaker 1: seventy four percent. It's overwhelming among Democrats, sixty nine percent

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Speaker 1: say that Biden is too old, and roughly the same

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Speaker 1: number of Democrats say Trump is too old as well.

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Speaker 1: The numbers for Trump among Independents are forty eight percent

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Speaker 1: and among Republicans much lower at twenty eight percent. So overall,

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Speaker 1: freeforce of US adults say Biden is too old for

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Speaker 1: a second term. Now, as I said, is this the

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Speaker 1: only thing voters are weighing no, it's not the only thing.

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Speaker 1: But is this a significant and legitimate factor for people

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Speaker 1: to be thinking about. Of course it absolutely is.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there's no question.

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Speaker 2: And you know, something that he actually does a good

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Speaker 2: job is contextualizing it in terms of people who are

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Speaker 2: also very elderly, but in in positions of high power. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, he even lands on Fortune five hundred CEOs.

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Speaker 2: He says that of that there are only two current

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Speaker 2: Fortune five hundred CEOs who are over the age of

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Speaker 2: over the age of seventy seven, Warren Buffett and Roger Penske.

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Speaker 2: No current US governor is older than seventy eight. And quote,

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Speaker 2: while there are quite a few US old senators, we

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Speaker 2: are seeing serious consequences from that, be it Mitch McConnell

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Speaker 2: or Dianne Feinstein's manifestly diminished capacities.

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Speaker 3: And as he.

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Speaker 2: Points out, the presidency arguably is even more of a

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Speaker 2: stressful job than the Fortune five hundred CEO job. I

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Speaker 2: encourage people, if you ever bear in Washington, go to

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Speaker 2: the National Portrait Gallery and go look at the mask

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Speaker 2: made of Abraham Lincoln's face, which was made in eighteen sixty,

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Speaker 2: I believe, And then look at the mass that was

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Speaker 2: taken of his face on the day that he died

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Speaker 2: in eighteen sixty five.

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Speaker 3: The lines that are.

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Speaker 2: Into his forehead, the gaunt nature of his cheeks shows

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Speaker 2: the sheer amount of stress that exerted on him in

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Speaker 2: just a four and a half year period during the

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Speaker 2: Civil War. I'm not comparing that to current times, but

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Speaker 2: I'm just giving people of idea.

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Speaker 3: In the worst of times, this job will kill you. FDR.

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Speaker 2: I mean, unquestionably, he of course had problems, but the

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Speaker 2: stress of World War Two. In twelve years in the presidency,

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Speaker 2: he was a dead man. By the time he was

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Speaker 2: reelected for his fourth term. He only lived like eighty

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Speaker 2: days into that term. There are a serious consequences to

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Speaker 2: covering this stuff up, and I will always remind people

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Speaker 2: we had this conversation in the Reagan years where Reagan currently,

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Speaker 2: as you said, Chryssel proved himself via the democratic process

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Speaker 2: by charging and turning around his age on Walter Mondale, and.

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Speaker 3: He was only sixty eight when he's right.

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Speaker 2: Resident, He's a spring chicken compared to both of these guys.

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Speaker 2: So I think Silver does a fantastic job of laying

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Speaker 2: out the very legitimate concern and the most important thing

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Speaker 2: to underscore two on those probabilities. That is not the

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Speaker 2: cumulative chance of death, the annual chance of death right

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Speaker 2: more than one in ten chance of dropping dead of

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Speaker 2: natural causes in your last year while you're in office.

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Speaker 2: And that is for people who are not in the

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Speaker 2: most stressful job on the world, who are retired hopefully

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Speaker 2: you know, sitting on a porch or you know, even

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Speaker 2: whenever they're in good health, even the most minuscule thing

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Speaker 2: can take you out when you're that old.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that is true.

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Speaker 1: So I mean board to keep those numbers in mind,

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Speaker 1: and also just to not allow the media to gaslight

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Speaker 1: you that this is not a legitimate issue. Of course,

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Speaker 1: is a legitimate issue to consider. I mean, obviously these

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Speaker 1: men are elderly, so that makes the choice not too

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Speaker 1: appealing on either side. We also have new evidence that

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Speaker 1: these concerns about Biden's age and also concerns about his

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Speaker 1: economic stewardship are really weighing on him in terms of reelection.

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Speaker 5: Put this up on the screen front of the Wall

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Speaker 5: Street Journal.

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Speaker 1: They say Biden's age, economic worries, and danger reelection.

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Speaker 5: In twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Four, nearly three quarters of voters say the president is

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Speaker 1: too old to run again. We're just discussing some of

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Speaker 1: those numbers. You can leave this up on the screen

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Speaker 1: for a moment. You can see the approve or disapprove

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Speaker 1: of the job that Joe Biden is doing on each

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Speaker 1: of the following On the economy, he's only I think

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Speaker 1: that's like se thirty seven percent approve of his handling

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Speaker 1: of the economy. You know, even poorer results on inflation

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Speaker 1: and rising costs, then even poorer results again in terms

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Speaker 1: of securing the border. He does decently well on improving infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I mean these and actually decently well

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Speaker 1: on creating jobs, which is kind of interesting that there's

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Speaker 1: a significant separation between how people feel about the economy

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Speaker 1: overall and how they feel about job creation and.

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Speaker 5: The unemployment rate.

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Speaker 1: You know, it really underscores the fact that, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a low unemployment rate, there are a good number of

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Speaker 1: jobs out there, but are they good jobs? Are you

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Speaker 1: able to afford a house, are you able to afford

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Speaker 1: a car? Are you able to afford just to make

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Speaker 1: ends meet at the end of the month. Just to

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Speaker 1: dig into these numbers a little bit more, I think

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Speaker 1: this is a big problem for Joe Biden by.

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Speaker 5: An eleven point margin.

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Speaker 1: More voter see Trump rather than Biden, as having a

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Speaker 1: record of accomplishments as president. Some forty percent said Biden

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Speaker 1: has such a record. Fifty one percent said so of

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Speaker 1: Trump by an eight point margin. More voters said Trump

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Speaker 1: has a vision for the future, and by ten points

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Speaker 1: more described Trump as mentally up to the presidency. Some

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Speaker 1: forty six percent said that is true of Trump. So

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Speaker 1: not even a majority for Trump, but better than the

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Speaker 1: thirty six percent who said so of Biden. Now, how

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Speaker 1: do you square this, these numbers and this perception from

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Speaker 1: the American people with the fact that, you know, you

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Speaker 1: did have things passed during the Biden administration. You had

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Speaker 1: the Recovery Act Early, you had the Infrastructure Act, you

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Speaker 1: had the Chips Act, you had the Packed Act, you

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Speaker 1: had the.

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Speaker 5: Inflation Reduction Act.

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Speaker 1: You've had, you know, accomplishments in terms of anti trust

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Speaker 1: things I really care about and that I think will

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Speaker 1: be really important over the long term, in terms of

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Speaker 1: unions in the National Labor Relations Board. How do you

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Speaker 1: square that with these numbers where people feel like, actually,

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Speaker 1: I think Trump accomplished more. Well. What I would argue, Sager,

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Speaker 1: is that over the course of the Biden administration, the

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Speaker 1: story has been one of gradually stripping away all of

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Speaker 1: the supports that were constructed under the Trump and Biden

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Speaker 1: administrations to deal with the pandemic. So while infrastructure is

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Speaker 1: good for the long term, chips ACKed good for the

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Speaker 1: long term, union, you know, improving the odds for union organizing,

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Speaker 1: good for the long term. In terms of the short term,

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Speaker 1: the experience has been number one, inflation and number two,

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Speaker 1: these things that were helping me are going away. I'm

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Speaker 1: having to rack up insane amounts of credit card debt

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Speaker 1: and other types of debt.

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Speaker 5: I'm getting behind.

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Speaker 1: I'm about to have to restart my student loan debt payments.

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Speaker 1: And I don't even understand these, you know, complicated procedures.

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Speaker 1: People have the perception, not just the perception, the reality

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Speaker 1: that things have gotten more difficult for them over the

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Speaker 1: course of the Biden administration, and so it makes all

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Speaker 1: the sense in the world that they would be unhappy

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Speaker 1: with his economic stewardship. And you know, basically giving Trump

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Speaker 1: another shot and a toss up race that is has

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Speaker 1: a fifth fifty chance of going in either direction.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I would also argue there is there

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Speaker 2: was a Kennedy term that was in vogue at the

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Speaker 2: time in the nineteen sixties about vigor and when they

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Speaker 2: looked at Kennedy, they felt that he was a vigorous

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Speaker 2: man and he was vigorously attacking the problems that we had.

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Speaker 2: As I've said before, a lot of that ended up

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Speaker 2: being methamphetamine that was being injected into him, but the

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Speaker 2: appearance was there nonetheless. And the point I think is

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Speaker 2: that with inflation, it said so much of this, people

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Speaker 2: want to go back and roll the tape from over

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Speaker 2: two years ago. I'm like, listen, people are not stupid.

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Speaker 2: They know that you're not solely responsible for the price

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Speaker 2: of gas, but they do need to feel as if

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Speaker 2: you were attacking it with vigor every single day.

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Speaker 3: He didn't do anything with the spr and they drained it.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't refilled it since then, actually left us more vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there was.

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Speaker 2: A sense, at least a small sense I think of

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Speaker 2: vigor ish in the first like two to three months

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Speaker 2: of the presidency. I think he really killed himself by

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Speaker 2: bringing back mask mandates and all the other nonsense. For

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Speaker 2: the first year or so, he got himself totally derailed

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Speaker 2: by COVID and during that time when we had supply

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Speaker 2: chains all that explode with the pricing, with inflation. He'd

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Speaker 2: never let himself get ahead of the ball. He always

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Speaker 2: says behind it, and he's basically fallen way behind it

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Speaker 2: ever since. Even in some of the things they're talking about, Crystal,

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Speaker 2: it's all been half measured. So like on the union front,

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Speaker 2: be like, yeah, he ruled this nice way on the NLRB,

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Speaker 2: I mean, asked the railway workers how that worked out

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Speaker 2: for him?

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Speaker 3: You know, at the time, I ask why.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to do a whole segment on this

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Speaker 2: later about the UAW and why they refuse to endorse

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Speaker 2: by it. And there's just been a series of things

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Speaker 2: that were done that were not done in the most

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Speaker 2: wholehearted manner. Now, look on the Trump front, I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons why is because A. Trump was

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Speaker 2: the beneficiary, of course of the zero registrate phenomenon. He

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Speaker 2: had the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. But also, you know,

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Speaker 2: even though people vigorously again attacked his approach to COVID,

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Speaker 2: let's say, on the actual like COVID front, you can't

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Speaker 2: deny the economic things that were put into place under

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Speaker 2: his presidency. And a lot of the structural things that

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Speaker 2: were done by him, or at least by his administration

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Speaker 2: specifically at that end period of which people can't just

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Speaker 2: look back and I mean, Paul show this very fondly

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Speaker 2: as to twenty nineteen. Some of that could be, you know,

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Speaker 2: just wanting to go back to the past, but I

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Speaker 2: do think part of it goes back to that story.

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Speaker 2: And so anyway, Biden's inability to like, you know, his

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Speaker 2: whole pitch was returned to normal and almost like a

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Speaker 2: normal plus vision, Well, that requires a ton of work,

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't do the work. I think that's what

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Speaker 2: And I think people can feel that very very very

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Speaker 2: deeply whenever they look at his presidency, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think they're wrong whenever they look at the structural conditions

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Speaker 2: in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they got freaked out by the I

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Speaker 1: think they took the wrong approach on inflation. They got

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Speaker 1: freaked out by you know, the Larry Summers of the world,

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Speaker 1: who told them, you know, the only thing that's driving

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Speaker 1: this is government spending, and you got to pull back

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Speaker 1: on all these programs. And I'm not saying that that

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, but it's become increasingly

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Speaker 1: clear over time that corporate profiteering was a larger percentage

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Speaker 1: of it than even I thought at the time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the numbers just spare that out, that actually a majority

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Speaker 1: of the inflation was corporate profiteering.

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Speaker 5: You had all these supply chain issues.

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Speaker 1: And we were calling for him from the beginning to

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Speaker 1: aggressively go out and go after these corporate profiteers and

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Speaker 1: do everything he could to call them on the carpet

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Speaker 1: to bring down prices. He didn't do that, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was It's unfortunate because the real turning

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Speaker 1: point in his approval rating, if we're being honest, is

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Speaker 1: actually when he did one of the best things of

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Speaker 1: his presidency, which was to withdraw from Afghanistan. But you

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Speaker 1: had a uni media moment of you know, this horrible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was a total media story. But in

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Speaker 1: terms of the enduring low nature of his approval ratings,

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Speaker 1: you can see really clearly the story of his administration

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, when they were doing stuff and people

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Speaker 1: were getting checks in their bank accounts, guess what, his

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Speaker 1: approval rating was really high, and people felt really good

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Speaker 1: about his stewardship at the economy. When they stopped doing

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Speaker 1: stuff that helped people and started stripping away all of

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Speaker 1: the programs that were helping people.

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Speaker 5: Guess what his economic.

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Speaker 1: Approval ratings and overall approval ratings fall off a cliff

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Speaker 1: and stay there. So that is how you're in the

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Speaker 1: situation now where it's a jump ball. Now you may ask,

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Speaker 1: given this analysis, why does he even have a shot

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Speaker 1: at winning? And I don't just think he has a shot.

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Speaker 1: He's been come at president. I think he has better

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Speaker 1: than a fifty to fifty chance of winning reelection if

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Speaker 1: he ends up being the Democratic nominee. Why Well, within

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Speaker 1: the same poll you've got Biden viewed significantly more favorably

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Speaker 1: than Trump on personal characteristics. Forty eight percent of voters

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Speaker 1: think Biden is likable. That's compared with thirty one percent

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Speaker 1: for Trump. Forty five percent you Biden is honest, Thirty

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Speaker 1: eight percent say that of Trump. You have a polster

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Speaker 1: who's quoted here and this is actually one of Trump's posters.

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Speaker 1: He pulls for Trumps super pac Tony Fabrizio, who says,

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Speaker 1: if this race is about personality and temperament, Biden has

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Speaker 1: an advantage. If the race is about policies and performance,

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Speaker 1: Trump has the advantage, and I think that that is

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Speaker 1: probably accurate. Last thing to throw into the mix here,

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Speaker 1: and then we've got an amazing CNN clip we want

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Speaker 1: to or not CNN, Sorry, Stephanopolis, Yeah, ABC, right, this

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Speaker 1: clip we want to show for you. But they also

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Speaker 1: interviewed someone who had been a Biden's supporter back in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty because he hates Trump and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure that Trump was not re elected. But this time,

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Speaker 1: this man, who they describe as a fifty seven year

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Speaker 1: old investor based in Phoenix who describes himself as an independent,

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Speaker 1: this time he's leaning towards supporting Cordell West Do impart

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Speaker 1: his frustration with Biden's inability to deliver on his promise

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Speaker 1: to overhaul policing in America. There's no goddamn police reform

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Speaker 1: out here. They are still killing people. I voted for

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Speaker 1: Biden because I knew he can heal, but he's just

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Speaker 1: not doing enough right now. So some of those key

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Speaker 1: supporters who last time around voted for Biden as a

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Speaker 1: bulwark against Trump are saying, you know what, he hasn't

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Speaker 1: done enough.

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Speaker 5: This time. I'm going in a different direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're going to see that on the people

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Speaker 2: who held their nose for him as well, who are

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Speaker 2: more conservative voters, and you know, all around.

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Speaker 3: You're just seeing in the erosion of support.

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Speaker 2: We brought you the pod save Piece last show, which

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Speaker 2: I think really hit it all home as UTAs already

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Speaker 2: ABC's your Stephnopolis is like, I just can't believe it.

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Speaker 2: I just can't understand why he's I connect with Trump.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a lesson, don Let's begin with the presidential race.

438
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 2: I don't ask you the question I asked Tim Kaine

439
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 2: towards the end there. It is kind of shocking in

440
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 2: a way that despite all of the baggage of Donald

441
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 2: Trump carries, he's tied with Joe Biden right now.

442
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean George.

443
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 6: When I looked at that recent pull the Wall Street Journal,

444
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 6: I said.

445
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 7: Oh, this could keep me up. And I look.

446
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 6: The problem is and the biggest challenge we face is Democrats.

447
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 6: I say we because I'm a Democrat, is that young voters,

448
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 6: young Black and Latino voters, they're not ready to.

449
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 7: Come back to the party.

450
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 5: They are not.

451
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 6: Even looking at the so called messaging that's being sent

452
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 6: to them about the economy, about climate change, about student.

453
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 3: Debt, relief.

454
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 2: Well, well, well, like you just said, a lot of

455
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 2: young voters who are Democrats are very upset whenever it

456
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 2: comes to the Joe Biden presidency. And that's the thing too,

457
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: They're like, I just can't believe it. You know, these indictments. Yeah,

458
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 2: it turns out the indictments, I really haven't done a

459
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: damn thing. Now, listen, we will see it's possible. Stop

460
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: the steal didn't show up in a lot of the

461
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,200
Speaker 2: polling in twenty twenty, so I a twenty twenty too.

462
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and just say that

463
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 2: it's a total write off.

464
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 3: We could have the exact same phenomenon going on right now.

465
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do encourage people always remember that in the

466
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: back of your mind. Stop the still and abortion remained

467
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 2: dramatically underpolled in twenty twenty two.

468
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 3: So if you want to.

469
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,400
Speaker 2: Consider what the bullish case for Biden would be, that's

470
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 2: what I would rely on. But as it seems right now,

471
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: it's still tough race, and regardless of what it is,

472
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: you should still, you know, you should fight like hell

473
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: in order to try and win.

474
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 3: I don't think he's doing that at all.

475
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: It is ironic that don in Brazil, the former head

476
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: of the DNZ, who is more responsible for preserving this

477
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: version of the Democratic Party, the you know Barack Obama,

478
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden version of the Democratic Party than

479
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: you know few other people right involved in all the

480
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: rigging at the DNC to make sure that the Bernie

481
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: Sanders movement was sidelined, to shut down and all of

482
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: that stuff that she's now.

483
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 5: I don't know what happened.

484
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: Yep, how come these young voters they don't like the

485
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: Democratic But I just don't get it. Is keeping me

486
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: up at night. I don't know, you know, young young people,

487
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: African Americans, latinum and I just don't get what's going on.

488
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: It's like you designed it. I mean, it doesn't compute

489
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: for them because it goes against their whole political philosophy

490
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: of like let's do the bare minimum and let's just

491
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: be a little bit better than the other guys, and

492
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: let's make sure that we're just you know, staying towards

493
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: the center quote unquote and not really delivering for people

494
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: in a meaningful way. Let's make sure that we crush

495
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: all these young people who have these big ideas of

496
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: how much better the country go. Let's make sure, we

497
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: crush their hopes and dreams and aspirations. Then oh, why

498
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: won't they vote for us? Why aren't they excited about us? Gee,

499
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: I wonder why, Donna? Yeah.

500
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 7: Absolutely.

501
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: There was another piece that we wanted to get to here,

502
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: which is an interesting exchange between Barstool's Dave Portnoy and

503
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson discussing age with regard to both Trump and Biden,

504
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: and also discussing Trump's absence from the first gopee debate.

505
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people took note of this. Let's take

506
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: a listen, Like.

507
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 8: I thought Trump should have done. I thought he should

508
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 8: have done the debate. Like to me, if you're voting on

509
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 8: the president, you want to hear him debate. He's brilliant.

510
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 8: He's the best to ever play the polital little game.

511
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 8: So to become president, I think it was the right

512
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 8: moove not to do it, But for the better room

513
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 8: of the country, I think.

514
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 7: You should be on the I kind of agree.

515
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 9: I'd like the debates personally, I mean, how else is

516
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 9: people going to decide the problem is that the news

517
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 9: companies that host the debates are so rotten and corrupt,

518
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 9: and everybody knows it. The whole thing's are wrong now,

519
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 9: the whole thing is rotten and corupt.

520
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 3: Is Biden going to be the dominie?

521
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 7: I don't know.

522
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 8: I'm not a little person, but I feel like there's

523
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 8: been a shift where internally maybe the Democrats don't think

524
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 8: he can win, and they're setting the stage to do

525
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 8: somebody else. I think it's crazy if he's I mean,

526
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 8: to be honest, I think both Trump and Biden are

527
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 8: too old. I think there should I don't think you

528
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 8: should be able to be that old and be president.

529
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 7: But I think Trump more aware.

530
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 8: I mean, I think Biden has got some serious dementia issues.

531
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 8: How that is the president I don't know. And that's

532
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 8: not a Democrat because I said about both. It's like Mitch, Mitch,

533
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 8: the guy who had the stroke doing the speech the

534
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 8: other day, Mitch McConnell, Yeah, like, what how are these

535
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 8: people running our country? You want to put these people?

536
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 9: I would say mcconnald's The only defense I would say

537
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 9: of Mitch McConnell is McConnell's poststroke is an improvement over McConnell.

538
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: Pretty stroke.

539
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 5: What does he make that soccer look?

540
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I think he represents frustration. I mean Dave.

541
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: Look, he says he's not a Trump supporter. Now, I

542
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: think he said he's moved on.

543
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 10: He was.

544
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 5: I didn't even know.

545
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: I mean definitely did.

546
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen he wrote the whole thing about how

547
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: he supported Trump and then obviously interviewed Trump in twenty twenty.

548
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call him a supporter per se, like it was.

549
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: He's a cultural figure much more than political, which is

550
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: why he kind of interests me and whenever it comes

551
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 2: to these things.

552
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: I did think it was significant though, about what he said.

553
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: He said, I think that these two men are too old,

554
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: But he was like, how are people supposed to decide?

555
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: And I think that was a great normy view into

556
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: how a lot of people will look at Biden's decision

557
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: not to participate in democratic debates and Trump not participating

558
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: in debates now to be fair GOP primary voters and

559
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 2: going to care about that at all. But I think

560
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: that people who are more outside of the political process

561
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: are like, well, you know, these things kind of are important.

562
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: And you know, we even saw Crystal, did you really

563
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: expect the pop Not even our show, but in general

564
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: of the media attention that was showed to the GOP

565
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 2: primary debate without Trump, I didn't. I can tell you

566
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: that right now. We saw an extraordinary amount of interest

567
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: from a lot of people. Of course our audience, he's

568
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: disproportionately young, and I think that's because people like seeing

569
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: an actual exchange.

570
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: They like seeing somebody get pressed on something. They like

571
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: seeing how people interact with each other.

572
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: We got a lot out of that debate in some ways,

573
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 2: you know, especially for specifically also the Nicki Haley versus Ramaswami,

574
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: the Hense and what was going on DeSantis's decision to

575
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: like put himself above the frame, and then the subsequent

576
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: movement there that we have seen since about how the

577
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: anti Trump vote really taking a big look over at

578
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 2: Nicki Haley Ramaswamy remaining more static than we expected because

579
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: a lot of those people are just Trump people. I mean,

580
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: there's there's so much to learn, I think from these things.

581
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: And I think that he really put his nail. He

582
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: really understood there that he's like, well, how are people

583
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: supposed to decide?

584
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: How is people supposed to evaluate?

585
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 11: There?

586
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: Just hits home what you were saying earlier, which is like, look,

587
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: I think you know, as with Reagan, Reagan's genius was

588
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: that he campaigned very hard and that he disarmed people,

589
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 2: and he was like, no, I'm not too old to

590
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: be president. I Biden has to convince people, probably triple

591
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: times more what Reagan did, and instead he's probably doing

592
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: I would say, less than one third of what Reagan

593
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 2: actually did when he was running for president.

594
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: Would have been nice if Tucker had pressed Trump on

595
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: any of this when he sat for him for an

596
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: interview during the debate. Would have been nice to see

597
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: him pressed on those things. I continue listen. Unfortunately, for Biden, politically,

598
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: it is the right decision. I think it's abhorrent. I

599
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: think it's disgraceful. I think it's anti democratic for him

600
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: to not even you know, submit himself whatsoever to a

601
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: democratic process.

602
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 5: However, given how.

603
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: He presents and how he would likely perform on a

604
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: debate stage, politically, I think it's a no brainer what

605
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: they're doing, and his basement strategy. Recreating the basement strategy

606
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: is probably the best thing he could possibly do, because

607
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: I just don't think he has the goods right For Trump,

608
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: I continue to think there is a little bit of

609
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: danger in the strategy, A little bit of danger because

610
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: you are allowing people to see these other candidates. You

611
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: are allowing these other candidates to grab some of the

612
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: headlines and some of the spotlight. You are allowing Republican

613
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: primary voters to imagine a post Trump party and consider, Okay,

614
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: if Trump was not in the picture, who would be

615
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: my chosen candidate? And you know, none of them are

616
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: my cup of tea. But I think for Republican based

617
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: voters there was a lot that they probably wherever they

618
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: fall in the Republican spectrum, they probably saw someone on

619
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: that stage that they were like, you know what, that

620
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: person was good. I like them, I like their paws,

621
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: I like how they present themselves. Whatever.

622
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: So I continue to think.

623
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: There is a little bit of danger for Trump. Do

624
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 1: I think that it is likely to, you know, end

625
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: up being an issue for him? No, not likely, but

626
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's a little risky, and he's very good

627
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: at debates. I have lots of issues with Trump, but

628
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: as a political performer, Porter is right, there's no one

629
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: better in the political game in terms of just sheer

630
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: performance value than Donald Trump. And so pushing aside the

631
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: opportunity for him to go out and like show, like

632
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: do his thing that he does better than anyone else,

633
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: I don't think it's actually the right call. I think

634
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: he's actually made a small mistake. Again, is it going

635
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: to be a determinedive? But is it a little bit

636
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: of a missed opportunity for him?

637
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: Yes, well that's what he's betting on, is that that

638
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: the risk would be too high. I think he should

639
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: have more confidence than himself. He's obviously, you.

640
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 3: Know, after what we saw him like ot Trump wouldn't

641
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: uke to that whole thing. He would absolutely dominate at

642
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: the stage.

643
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, look, you know he's a student, probably the

644
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: best media manipulator in the history of the American presidency.

645
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: And if anybody would study it incorrect, I think it

646
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: would be him. Let's move on to Ukraine. You guys

647
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: are going to be amazed. We are now allowed to

648
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: talk about pervasive, rampant corruption at the highest levels in

649
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian government. Why because Zelenski has now given us

650
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: permission to do so. Let's go and put this up

651
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: there on the screen. The President of Ukraine kind of

652
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 2: stunning the world by firing the chief Defense Minister of

653
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: Ukraine for military graft and corruption. And some of the

654
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: details that the media has now allowed itself to report

655
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: on are you know, just as stunning and are as

656
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 2: obvious as people who have been watching this conflict from

657
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: the day one.

658
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: They point to the fact that quote the removal of the.

659
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: Defense minister highlights the enduring challenge of corruption in Ukraine,

660
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: which has emerged as quote a rare area of criticism

661
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: of Vladimir Zelensky's leadership.

662
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: Who made that criticism rare? I do wonder about that.

663
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: It's, of course, these two media outlets who are only

664
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: doing it after the man has already been fired, or

665
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: at very least he offered his resignation. But one of

666
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: the things that really came out to me, Crystal, was

667
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: the specificity of the claim, and this claim itself that

668
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: shows you how obvious so much more of the corruption

669
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: that we are overwhelmingly bankrolling.

670
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 7: Here.

671
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: Let me just read this part quote. At one point,

672
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: just this year, nine hundred and eighty million dollars in

673
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: weapons contracts missed their delivery dates, according to the official

674
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: government figure, and some pre payments for weapons quote vanished

675
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: into overseas accounts of weapons dealers. Let's be clear, this

676
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: is year and my money, this is our money, American dollars,

677
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: taxpayer dollars of which we have no inspector general and

678
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: no oversight. Also, let me remind everybody of this. The

679
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: Treasury Department under the Biden administration has said we have

680
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: seen no indication of any corruption going on in Ukraine

681
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: because we are obviously looking at the situation. The hilarious

682
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: part this is the Ukrainian government. Yeah, this is the

683
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: Ukrainian government being more honest about their corruption than our

684
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: government about their corruption about our tax dollars, they say.

685
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: Quote.

686
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: Though precise details have not emerged, irregularities suggests procurement officials

687
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: in the ministry did not vet suppliers, allowed weapons dealers

688
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: to walk off out with money without delivering armaments. That

689
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: is on top of the actual specific scandal that was

690
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: uncovered under this defense minister's leadership where they were charging

691
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: at one point forty seven cents US dollar for a

692
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: single egg per egg, it was being supplied massive overpayment

693
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: for food. Go ahead, and guess who the people who

694
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: were supplying the food, the cronies and the friends. We'd

695
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: seen the Zelenski government attack some of this. The thing

696
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: is too is they don't actually care. You know why

697
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: they're doing this. It's because people like us, Crystal people

698
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: in the US Congress and all over the world are like, hey,

699
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: what's actually going on with our money? If we're going

700
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: to give you even more money, they're like, oh, we're

701
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: going to make a big show about doing something about corruption.

702
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: My personal favorite line was a flag by Byron New

703
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: York Let's put this up there on the screen, which

704
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: says that inside of Ukraine before the invasion, the primary

705
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: source of embezzlement had been poorly run state companies. Money

706
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: was siphoned off by wealthy insiders.

707
00:31:58,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 12: Quote.

708
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: Anti corrupt groups now say that the huge influx of

709
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: funds to support the war have prompted them to shift

710
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: focus to military spending.

711
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: Oh really, that's very interesting.

712
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: I can't help but think of that CBS News report

713
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: from the earlier days of the wars, of the first

714
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: three months in and they talked about misdelivery, about procurement,

715
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: about rampant corruption, about all of that. And CBS News

716
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: retracted their report that was on the ground and was

717
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: directly factual because of criticism from the Ukrainian government who

718
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: were like, no, no, no, that's out of date. Well, okay,

719
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: even if it is out of date, it's still true.

720
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: Was it factually true or not? They're like, it's out

721
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: of context. Well, it wasn't out of context. It's a

722
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: simple fact that there was a massive misdelivery of arms

723
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: and everything you read about how things work out there,

724
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: we're literally talking about crates of brand new US provided

725
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: weapons top off of a bit of a truck to

726
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: open up the back and they're like, all right, anybody

727
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: who wants you can come and get it.

728
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: We don't know who these people are.

729
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: We're talking about militias, some of whom have terrible ideology

730
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: and are connected, you know, to long standing like Nazi groups.

731
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: That is not again to say that this all Ukrainians

732
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: are in the military or whatever are Nazis, but there's

733
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: no denying that our weapons are obviously in their hands

734
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: and they were fighting on behalf of the government. More so, Crystal,

735
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: the desperation going on in Ukraine right now is stunning.

736
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: I mean, they have lowered the bar dramatically for the

737
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 2: amount of eligible men who are fit for service, in

738
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: some cases people who are like HIV positive you know,

739
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: who previously would have been disallowed from serving. That is

740
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: not the action of a confident military that has an

741
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: endless amount of supply here. It is the time, unfortunately,

742
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: time on or tradition of people who are bleeding men

743
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: in an attritional conflict that happened in the South in

744
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: the American Civil War, happened during World War One with

745
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: all the great power militaries that were sending men into

746
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: the meat grinder. So you put these two things together

747
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: and structurally, clearly there is not signs of there's not

748
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: a lot of good signs for the Krainanian military, and

749
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: it confirms our nineteen month long now suspicion that graft

750
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: and corruption is deeply embedded into the Ukrainian government society,

751
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: which is not to put down the people themselves. Just

752
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: to note the most obvious fact, it was one of

753
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: the most country corrupt countries on planet Earth before the invasion.

754
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: Why would anything change.

755
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: That's like being surprised that half the amount of aid

756
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: that we sent to Afghanistan was embezzled and now currently

757
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: is sitting in a bank account in Dubai. Obvious to

758
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: anybody knew anything about Afghanistan prior to our war that

759
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: was going on there. So look again, this isn't to

760
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: put down the people themselves or the soldiers who are

761
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: fighting nobly. It really is to put down the leaders

762
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: who we just bankroll without question, and it's very obvious

763
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: here what's going on. And it's also note really to me,

764
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: not one American official ever said one word about this

765
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: in public. They only said it behind the scenes. And

766
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian government itself is taking better note of their

767
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: corruption than we are.

768
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: Not just the Ukrainian government, apparently the Ukrainian media, because

769
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: what comes out to so is that you know, Ukrainian

770
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: journalists and media there in country, they've been doing lots

771
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: of investigative reporting into things like what you're talking about,

772
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: like the egg overpricing. There was another incident where you know,

773
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: all these winter coats were shipped that were totally shody quality,

774
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: not close to sufficient in terms of like actually keeping

775
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: people warm in the cold Ukrainian winters. So they've done

776
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: quite a bit of reporting about some of these these

777
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: problems and these you know, contracts that are going to

778
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Crony's and that the Ukrainian government and by extension, are

779
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: government and taxpayers are getting ripped off by. And it

780
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: makes sense because of course the Ukrainian people, like they

781
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: actually live in the country and they don't have this cartoonish,

782
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: disnified version of their own government that we have here.

783
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: A couple other things to note, just foreign policy. Put

784
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: together a list of there's a new Department of Defense

785
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: appropriations bill that needs to pass, and there are a

786
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: bunch of relevant amendments that have been proposed here that

787
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: are worth watching. Some of them have directly to do

788
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: with Ukraine. There's a new effort to block the transfer

789
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: of cluster bombs that will be proposed as part of this.

790
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: There's also two this is interesting, two Republican amendments on

791
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion sort of famously you know,

792
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: Nazi neo Nazi roots, et cetera, but now part of

793
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian armed forces. There's one that's Proasov and there's

794
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: one that's anti Azov, so that will be part of

795
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: it as well. And of course this goes into tracking, Okay,

796
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: where do these who's hands of these weapons end up in,

797
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: which is obviously relevant in terms of corruption as well.

798
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: The other thing to add that I think is part

799
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: of why this anti corruption talk is coming out right

800
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: now in terms of the US press, is Zelensky is

801
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: acknowledging that corruption has been an issue and tacitly acknowledging

802
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: it by some of the personnel changes that he's making.

803
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: But then his solution is to override this somewhat independent

804
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: board that's supposed to be looking at corruption and take

805
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: matters into his own hands and charge anyone caught, you know,

806
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: with some sort of corrupt deal with treason. So this

807
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: is concerning because obviously if you put the entire enforcement

808
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: in the hands of one person who has a history

809
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: of going after political adversaries.

810
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 5: And stifling descent, etc.

811
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: Even US officials are raising alarms about this particular approach

812
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: to cracking down on corruption. Of course, every you know,

813
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: we certainly want to see corruption dealt with, but not

814
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: in a way that's just going to be like used

815
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: against us selectively against his political adversaries, versus an actual

816
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: hole of government effort to make sure that the funds

817
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: are going where they're supposed to be.

818
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 2: Let's all just recall that pression shishingping has been a

819
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: famous use of the same power, rooting out officials for corruption,

820
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: And by that he means his friends are the ones

821
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: who are the only ones allowed to do corruption, not

822
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 2: the people who are as political As big a genius

823
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 2: to see how it all works out, The secondary part

824
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: of this is another extraordinary rebuke of the Biden administration

825
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: and one I want to spend some time on today

826
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: because it is one of the most unanalyzed, uncriticized parts

827
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: of the Biden presidency which has always baffled me, and

828
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: that is our treatment of North Korea.

829
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: Say whatever you want about Trump.

830
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: Trump shook up the geopolitical consensus in the US relationship

831
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: with North Korea after they obtained the ability in order

832
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: to have an ICBM successfully deliver a nuclear warhead to

833
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: touch the United States.

834
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 3: That was a complete strategic change of the calculus.

835
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: And he said, you know what, we can't keep going

836
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: down this path or we're going to end up in

837
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 2: a war.

838
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: I'm just going to go meet the guy, no preconditions.

839
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: And you know what happened.

840
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: We didn't have any military tests, we did missile tests,

841
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: the Hermit Kingdom became a little less harmity, We had

842
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: multiple US exchanges of diplomats. He ended up finishing his presidency.

843
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: And what did the Biden administration do. They reverted exactly

844
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: back to the Obama administration. They said, no talks without

845
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: any time of denuclearization. And what did the North Koreans do?

846
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: They started firing stuff off, scaring the crap out of

847
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: our Japanese and South Korean allies, militarizing again, and now

848
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: have been a main source of weapons for the Russians

849
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: in Ukraine. And what's going on. Let's put this up

850
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: there on the screen. Kim Jong un will be making

851
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: a historic visit to Moscow to go and meet Putin

852
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 2: sometime later this month. He will be or sorry I Vladivasstok,

853
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: not Moscow. He will be aboard his armored train because

854
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: he's too afraid to fly, which I always think is

855
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: one of the funnier things about Kim jong un. But

856
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: this is a historic, incredible trip for Kim Jong un

857
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: in his premiership or presidency whatever they call it over there.

858
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: More importantly, though, it is the sign of an emerging

859
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 2: kind of tripartach pact between the three. We can laugh

860
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: off North Korea all we want. Of course, you know,

861
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: their economy, society, all of that is a disaster. But

862
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: they knew how to do one thing. They have massive

863
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: stockpiles of weapons. They have they're a nuclear armed power,

864
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 2: and now they're entering into to a basically quasi alliance

865
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: with the Russians, who are of course happy to take

866
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: any weapons that they're going to give them because they

867
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: need the money and more.

868
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: So let's go and put this up there.

869
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: They're actually, it seems going to be entering some likely

870
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: North Korean three way drills, military drills unprecedented in all

871
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: of history between North Korea, China, and Russia. So a

872
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: reversion entirely back to the Cold War crystal you know,

873
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 2: let's say, you know you're a big Ukraine stand who

874
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: was out there. You should be furious because if the

875
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: Biden administration had kept up diplomatic engagement with Pyongyang, we

876
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 2: may not be in this situation. We may have some diplomacy,

877
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 2: we may have an avenue to be like, hey, don't

878
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: sell weapons over to the Rush.

879
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 3: We'll help you guys out. What do you guys want?

880
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 3: Or maybe we can do this.

881
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: We can ease this sanction here, we can change things

882
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: up here. So even if you do care about Ukraine,

883
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: you should be angry about this. But this gives you

884
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: a good view into when we revert to the old

885
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: style talking points. We're just not going to engage or

886
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: any of that. It's a disaster and this is what's

887
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: happening here again.

888
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: Laugh off. North Korea all you want. They've got an ICBM.

889
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 2: They can wipe out Los Angeles, they can wipe out

890
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: the island of Hawaii if they want to. Yes, many

891
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: people in their country are starving. They have decided to

892
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: dedicate their entire society to get it. And the Kim

893
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: regime is not going anywhere anytime soon. So it is

894
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: obvious we have to treat this with seriousness, and instead

895
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: everybody laughs it off. This is still a this is

896
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,479
Speaker 2: a major, major diplomatic event that's happening, and of course,

897
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 2: you know, Washington is ignoring the event, and we don't

898
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: even have an avenue Crystal to go to Pyongyang as

899
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: Mike Pompeo did, or even have some sort of summit

900
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: and just be like, don't do this. We can make

901
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: it worth your while. There's many different avenues that we

902
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: could go down. We haven't exchanged a word with them

903
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: now in years.

904
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this is one of those issues that

905
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: Trump was really attacked by, and he was I mean,

906
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: this was such an example of the media attacking Trump

907
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: for all of the wrong things because on many other

908
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: areas he was way more hawkish than Biden. He was

909
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: extremely hat actually with regards to Russia, extremely augish with

910
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: regard to Iran in ways that were wildly irresponsible that

911
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: have you know, made us less safe and.

912
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 5: Killed engagement on that front.

913
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: But on this one thing, his approach was clumsy and

914
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: it didn't amount to everything, but the general direction was correct.

915
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: The general instinct of hey, you know, what we've been

916
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: what we've been trying to do here hasn't worked. And

917
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: Biden has just gone back to that old way of

918
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: thinking with regard to North Korea specifically that for years

919
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: and years and years has not worked. And so you know, surprise,

920
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: surprise when you get the same results that we got

921
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: with this hawkish we're not.

922
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 5: Going to talk to you.

923
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: You know, all these preconditions approach that we had for so.

924
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: Long exactly right.

925
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: And you know, it's one of those where Trump was

926
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: very proud of his engagement with Kim Jong un, and

927
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: I still look in a low personal way that said

928
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: it was for the best. We were safe for our

929
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 2: allies who were actually productive members of our alliance, like

930
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: Japan and like South Korea, were felt a lot better

931
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: about it. They were pretty happy with the results of

932
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: not having their citizens cowering and fear over being accidentally

933
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: hit or a jet aircraft being hit by a North

934
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: Korean missile. And now, like I said, North Korea, which

935
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: has a massive stockpiles weapons for its possible war with

936
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 2: the South that they've been preparing for for basically since

937
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three or whatever we signed the armistice, are

938
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: happy to sell it at cost or not a little

939
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: bit of a profit into the Russians and to secure

940
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 2: the respect that the North Korean regime craves and desires.

941
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: And you can hate them all you want, it won't

942
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: take away there a nuclear weapon.

943
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: We've learned that the hard way.

944
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton basically had the only chance in order to

945
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: do something about it, he decided not to. From the

946
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: Bush administration on the nuclear tests and the eventual attainment.

947
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 3: Of the weapon, it is what it is.

948
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: You know, when countries get a bomb, they get treated differently,

949
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: and it's one of those where people just want to

950
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: wish it away differently. But having a tripartite nuclear alliance

951
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: are specifically around Russia and watching now as Chinese banks

952
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: are stepping in to basically provide all the banking services

953
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: that Russia used to get from the West. We're just

954
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: bifurcating in a way that is not achieving the end

955
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: result and is very likely making us all much much

956
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 2: less safe as a result of this policy.

957
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 5: I think that is all accurate.

958
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's get to the really important story.

959
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 5: Everyone is waiting to hear.

960
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: World updates about the Burning Man Festival. Okay, So for

961
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: people who aren't in the know, it's this annual festival

962
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: happens really in the middle of nowhere in the desert,

963
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: in this dried ancient lakebed one hundred miles from Reno, Nevada.

964
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 5: Is the closest airport, etc.

965
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: So it's the sort of like techno utopian libertarian vibes,

966
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: you go. It's supposed to be about community and radical

967
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: self reliance. And this year they had a huge rain

968
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: event that you know, because it's the desert, because they're

969
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: in this dried lakebed, created massive flooding and made the thing,

970
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, incredibly muddy.

971
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 5: People could barely walk.

972
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: Let alone bike, let alone drive to try to leave,

973
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: and so they actually close down both the entry and

974
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: the exit for a period of time. Now, people this morning,

975
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: they have been leaving their the roads are reopened. People

976
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: are able to escape now in whatever muddy condition they are,

977
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: but let's take a look at a little bit of

978
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: what was going on at its worst now.

979
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 13: Roads leading in and out of the festival have been

980
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 13: shut down since Saturday after heavy rain turned the ground

981
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 13: into ankle deep mud Offichill Say. The thick muck made

982
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 13: it virtually impossible for cars, buses and RVs to leave.

983
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 13: Some people walk for miles to get through the mud

984
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 13: and get out drowning Matt Update.

985
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 14: We got three quarters of an insurrain. Travel is impossible,

986
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 14: and there's about seventy thousand people stranded on a barren lakebed.

987
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 14: But fortunately burners are bad ass and brought all the

988
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 14: supplies we need, or most of us. We got people

989
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 14: who came by bus camped on the edge of the city.

990
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 14: They're in pop up tens, in at risk of gatin hypothermia.

991
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 14: But we don't need outside help. We're going to bind together,

992
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 14: get radically self reliant, draw out the furniture, and keep

993
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 14: the party going. Tative is to fall into despair, roll

994
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 14: over and die, and we all have a choice in

995
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 14: how we're going to handle this. So everyone open up

996
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 14: your sterling satellite so people can communicate with their families.

997
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 14: Make an expedition to the edge of the city with

998
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 14: food and water. Don't fight anybody, because we're all in

999
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 14: this together. Bury those negative thoughts and gratitude for your

1000
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 14: life because a couple of people didn't make it last night.

1001
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 14: I know that we're all going to clean up this

1002
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 14: mess and get out of here. This is the hand

1003
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 14: we were dealt this here, and together we're going to

1004
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 14: get through it.

1005
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: I love this guy.

1006
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do too.

1007
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of a perfect emblem of like

1008
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: the vibe of the people that are there. And I

1009
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: mean I had to confess I watched a million videos

1010
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: about Burning Man and what it looked like. I mean,

1011
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: it looked so disgusting and you're like, all these people

1012
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: there and they can't empty the poor to potties and

1013
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: it's just a total disaster. Fire festival sort of vibes.

1014
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: But the Internet was clearly kind of like obsessed with this.

1015
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm curious, a, are why you think that people were

1016
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: so interested in like imagining the suffering of the Burning

1017
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: Man attendees.

1018
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's an extraordinary situation, you know. I mean, Burning

1019
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: Man is a long place in pop culture. There's a

1020
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: lot of controversy around Burning Man, where originally it was

1021
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: kind of like hippie festival and argually is I wouldn't

1022
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: say taken over, but a huge contention of people who

1023
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: are really into.

1024
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: It, influencers or like lost and photos of themselves there,

1025
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: and a lot of.

1026
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 3: The Silicon Valley billionaires. It became try.

1027
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: It's almost like Cochella became one of those things that

1028
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: became Instagram trendy became one of those things that became

1029
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: an attainable goal rather the counter to counter really to

1030
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 2: like the anti capitalist goal that was originally there.

1031
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 3: You know, there's a big separation between.

1032
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: Like real burners and then people who buy their way in,

1033
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 2: so I'll put that aside.

1034
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 3: I have some sympathy. I think it sounds I think

1035
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: it sounds cool.

1036
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I would experience it, but I mean visually,

1037
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 2: it's just stunning thing.

1038
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 3: And also people.

1039
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: Love to see how people, especially Silicon Valley billionaires and others,

1040
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: like the idea of them like sitting and suffering in

1041
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: this extraordinary environment is just obviously humorous. I saw videos

1042
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: of people like Chris Rock and others like being able

1043
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: to escape ning Man. Well, poor regular burners were sitting

1044
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: there with their stuff. I actually really liked that guy's vibe.

1045
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: We're gonna be resilient, We're gonna keep the party going.

1046
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,959
Speaker 3: And people I know who are.

1047
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: Really into it, who are not these Silicon Valley types

1048
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: and others. That's very much the spirit I think that

1049
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 2: they would like to embody. I don't know though, if

1050
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 2: the festival can recover. I was seeing some takes out

1051
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: there others. Of course they're gonna keep going, but I mean, yeah,

1052
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: broader pop culture, like they were like, this really will

1053
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: put a damper on the future. And I think at

1054
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 2: the very least, it does highlight something which has always

1055
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: been at the core of Burning Man, which is being

1056
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: one hundred miles out in the middle of the desert.

1057
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 3: It's not a joke.

1058
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: You really do need to be self reliant. You do

1059
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: need to prepare and plan for the worst. Crystal You

1060
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: and I spend a lot of time outdoors. You know,

1061
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 2: people are very cavalier, putting themselves in situations which you are.

1062
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: The margin of safety out there is a real thin

1063
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: I've seen people six miles or whatever into the Grand

1064
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: Canyon wearing jeans and a single bottle of water and

1065
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: it's one hundred I'm like, what are you doing out here,

1066
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 2: like you're asking.

1067
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: For it, man. Same in Moab.

1068
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: I remember, you know even in Arches National Park they

1069
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: even have rangers there are checking people to make sure

1070
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: they have enough water, and people are still disregarding it,

1071
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: be like no, I'll be fine. Like if you trip

1072
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: and fall your four miles out, what are we going

1073
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: to do?

1074
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 5: Man?

1075
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 3: They got to go save you.

1076
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: And it's one of those where it is a reminder

1077
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: I think to everybody it's like, look, if you're going

1078
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 2: to partake not even this activity, but any activity out

1079
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: there on the margins, like you need to genuinely be

1080
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: aware and prepared for a worst case scenario. So I

1081
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: think that's also some shot and Foyd's that's a part

1082
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: of this.

1083
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1084
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: I think the festival probably will recover, but maybe it shouldn't.

1085
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: And the reason I say this is it just feels

1086
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: like one of those things where its time has passed.

1087
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: Like whatever the original organic idea was that you know

1088
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: was a real thing and a community experience, et cetera,

1089
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: it's been sort of commodified. It's become more about the

1090
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: you know, selfies that influencers post than whatever the original

1091
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: conception was. And I think there's a there's a couple

1092
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: pieces here. I mean, first of all, I expect that

1093
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: the people actually went through this, since their whole goal

1094
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: in a sense and going to Burning Man was like

1095
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: to have this extraordinary and challenging experience. They had an

1096
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: extraordinary and challenging experience. And so I suspect that the

1097
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: people who leave there, as much as we're looking at

1098
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: the photographs and videos that are like that looks like

1099
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: hell on Earth. You could not pay me enough, I

1100
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: bet they actually come out feeling like they got something.

1101
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 5: Out of the experience, would be my bet.

1102
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: There's also something about the level of privilege that it takes,

1103
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: first of all, to be able to you know, take

1104
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: time off work, and the expense it's not cheap to do,

1105
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: et cetera, etter get the supplies go there. But the

1106
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: also level of privilege it takes to feel like you

1107
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: need to add suffering into your life, like you need

1108
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: to artificially generate suffering and struggle that's meaningful into your life.

1109
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 5: And so I think that's there's an element.

1110
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: Of that too. In terms of how people are reacting

1111
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: to this. You know, some people are highlighting like the

1112
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: types of folks that are at Burning Man at this

1113
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: point Katyallas put us up on the screen from the serfs,

1114
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: who they describe as he's a former Obama Socia general,

1115
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: but he also was the lawyer who successfully, in their words,

1116
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: defended Nesslie in their child slavery case. Dressing in what

1117
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: they say it can only describe as petocre.

1118
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 5: To build a court room in the middle of.

1119
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: The desert perfectly encapsulates the essence of burning man. So listen,

1120
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 1: I haven't been, so I can't speak to what it's

1121
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: actually like when you're there, and the vibe and the

1122
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: energy and what people get out of it. So I

1123
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: don't want to like completely cast it aside. But certainly

1124
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: the popular perception is of dudes like this who are wealthy,

1125
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 1: privileged and have done evil things coming there to pose

1126
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: like they're these utopian idealists, when really it's just about

1127
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: them sort of like play acting some struggle for a.

1128
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: Week very likely, And yeah, I mean, there's also never

1129
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: underestimate rich people's ability to ruin everything, and that's very

1130
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: likely something that happened here. And of course that's why

1131
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 2: the Internet has been captivated as shoden freud, including Ebola conspiracy.

1132
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was, I guess I should say there was

1133
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: one person who died, and they're saying it wasn't related

1134
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: to the weather. I mean, you got seventy thousand people

1135
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: in the desert, like the chance that and there's a

1136
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: lot of drugs and whatever going on, So the chance

1137
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: is that someone of those seventy thousand people might die

1138
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: is not crazy to imagine.

1139
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 5: It's being investigated.

1140
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: But it did spark a whole bunch of like there

1141
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: was a conspiracy theory that the reason they'd shut it

1142
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: down wasn't the mud, it was because there was a

1143
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: bola and the spread wildly online as things do, so

1144
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: that is another part of why the Internet was fascinating.

1145
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: I wish them the vast safe travels home. I hope

1146
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 2: you at least were able to salvage some fun out

1147
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: of it.

1148
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 7: That's it.

1149
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, all right, let's move on to the next

1150
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: block here, because former President Trump making some interesting comments

1151
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: about the electric vehicle transition and the push from the

1152
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: Biden administration, including largely provisions contained in the Inflation Reduction Act.

1153
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen in part to what Trump had

1154
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: to say, and we'll react on the other side.

1155
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 15: What's happening to our auto workers is an absolute disgrace

1156
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 15: and an outrage beyond belief. Auto workers are getting totally

1157
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 15: ripped off by Crooked Joe Biden and also their horrendous leadership,

1158
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 15: because these people are allowing our country to do these

1159
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 15: electric vehicles that very few people want, and it's a mandate,

1160
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 15: So you'll ultimately be forced to drive in a car

1161
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 15: that goes for an hour and then you have to

1162
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 15: have it recharged.

1163
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 7: I hope you don't want to go very far away.

1164
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 15: Biden has imposed the outlandish requirement that sixty seven percent

1165
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 15: of all new vehicles must be electric in less than

1166
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 15: ten years. That means Michigan and places that make cars,

1167
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 15: you can forget about it. You better get your union

1168
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 15: working because you can forget about those cars are all

1169
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 15: going to be made in China, and your bosses are

1170
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 15: leading you right down the tubes. You shouldn't pay your fees.

1171
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 15: They get these big fees from all of their workers,

1172
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 15: and it doesn't matter how bad they are, they'll endorse

1173
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 15: a Democrat even though the Democrats selling you down the tubes.

1174
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 15: Both the UAW bosses and the Big three auto executives

1175
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 15: should be screaming at the top of their lungs. Should

1176
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 15: be ashamed of themselves. And I'm telling you you shouldn't

1177
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 15: pay those dues. You should not pay your dues because

1178
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 15: they're selling you to hell. You're going to be going

1179
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 15: to hell. You're not gonna have any jobs. All those

1180
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 15: cars are going to be made in China. Listen to

1181
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 15: these union guys that get paid a lot of money

1182
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 15: and they get whined and dined in Washington. They know

1183
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 15: that electric cars are no good in terms of our workers.

1184
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: So there is a lot to sort through their line,

1185
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: many layers. First of all, that anti union rhetoric is

1186
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: so like classic standard Republican. I mean, he's delivered with

1187
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: like a Trumpian flourish. But the bottom line is like,

1188
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, the big union bosses around to get you,

1189
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And he's talking specifically about the

1190
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: United United Autoworkers here where they just elected Sean Fain,

1191
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: who is you know, really standing up for the rank

1192
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: and file, really pushing the auto big three automakers. They

1193
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: are imminently threatening a strike up. Talking more about this

1194
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: in my monologue again today. You know is asked demanding

1195
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: forty six percent salary increases, is demanding that when they

1196
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: close a plant in the town that there's actually, you know,

1197
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: a job program to keep people employed. That put this

1198
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: up on the screen. The part about them not pressing

1199
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: Biden is also just a lie. The UAW has not

1200
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: endorsed Biden specifically because they don't feel he went far

1201
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: enough in terms of guaranteeing that the ev transition is

1202
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: a just transition, meaning that the wages are commensurate with

1203
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: what is in the industry right now, and that those

1204
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: jobs remain union jobs. But on the other half of this,

1205
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: put the next piece up on the scrape of the

1206
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: American Prospect.

1207
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 5: You did some great reporting here.

1208
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,479
Speaker 1: You know, it's not that Biden has done nothing, which

1209
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: is what Trump did in terms of trying to make

1210
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: sure that these are union jobs and they're good, well

1211
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: paying jobs.

1212
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 5: Et cetera.

1213
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: He used all these typical neoliberal like carrots and sticks

1214
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: and subsidies and incentives to try to get the automakers

1215
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: to use union labor and keep wages high.

1216
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 5: But they didn't mandate it.

1217
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: And so that's the beef with the UAW is they

1218
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: don't feel Biden did enough, even though it wouldn't be

1219
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: accurate to say that he did absolutely nothing. And then

1220
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: the last thing, and I'll throw it to you, Soger

1221
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: for your reaction. Let's remember Trump's record with regard to

1222
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 1: automakers and union auto jobs. Lordstown Auto Plant was you know,

1223
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: sort of storied, historic, really the bedrock of that community,

1224
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: and it's an area that I know well. Trump came in,

1225
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: he told these GM workers that he was going to

1226
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: save their plant, and of course it was a lie.

1227
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 5: It closed.

1228
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 1: It's now there's you know, there's some like battery factory nearby.

1229
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: They tried to get an EV maker and none of

1230
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 1: it has worked out. And so Trump's own record with

1231
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: regard to the auto industry was calamitous and catastrophic, and

1232
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: he had zero incentives in place to keep the you know,

1233
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: the jobs well.

1234
00:56:58,680 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 5: Paying and union.

1235
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: But he goes out there and of course, you know,

1236
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: does his Trumpian thing.

1237
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 3: I think there's some interesting parts of this.

1238
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 2: One is I do think Trump is correct about the

1239
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 2: demand for electric vehicles. So, for example, Tesla has out

1240
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: selling Toyota in the state of California for twenty twenty three.

1241
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: That's not just because of subsidies, is because people want

1242
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 2: the cars. Also, people do drive a lot in California.

1243
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: There's a reason for that, which is the great cars

1244
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: they're going to drive. Now, let's put that aside and

1245
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: let's talk about some of where I kind of agree

1246
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 2: with Trump, not on the union front, because I think

1247
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: what he's getting, I mean, factually is just not correct,

1248
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: especially whenever it comes to Sean Fayne. He's not wrong

1249
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: though that a lot of auto worker actual members did

1250
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: vote for Trump, and I think some of it stems

1251
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: back to those twenty sixteen.

1252
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 3: Rhetoric culture that goes into it.

1253
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: There's a whole other conversation we can have, specifically on

1254
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: the EVS, and I've done so many monologues about this.

1255
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: What he has gotten at is, like you said, they

1256
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: have gone to this mandate about x amount.

1257
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 3: Of vehicles on the road that have to be electric.

1258
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 2: Without planning or doing any of the stuff that you

1259
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: actually have to do in order to achieve.

1260
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 3: That very lofty goal.

1261
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 5: There's no mandate.

1262
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 2: So he's talking about the EPA emissions mandate around.

1263
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 5: Well, whatever, there's no there's no mandate that.

1264
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: New cars sold five.

1265
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: The thing that he said about like there's a mandate

1266
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: that it has to be sixty seven per that's not true. Well,

1267
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: Biden is using these incentives that's his goal is to

1268
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: get to that point. But that's just not accurate that

1269
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: it's like we will.

1270
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: Have this unper ball cars. Is that new cars have

1271
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: to meet ex emissions. I mean the same way California

1272
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: is doing it. They're doing the same thing with the

1273
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: EPA with their own state Environmental Agency requirement around new

1274
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 2: cars being sold. Regardless, the point is that if you

1275
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: do want to get to that, you need a massive

1276
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: explosion in charging infrastructure. You need a massive explosion in

1277
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: industrial capacity to build battery plants.

1278
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 3: He's not wrong.

1279
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: The vast majority I've done tons of monologues though, is

1280
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: the vast majority of the battery.

1281
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 3: Supply chain is in China.

1282
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 2: It's a huge problem for Elon Musk and for Tesla,

1283
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: where not only the major battery supplier, but huge parts

1284
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: of their own supply chain for the basic requirements of

1285
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: the car themselves are not made here in the United States.

1286
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: So we need actual plants in order to get that done.

1287
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: I support the UAW trying to push that. I do not, though,

1288
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: and I'm not a fan of the requirement or at

1289
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: the very least the EPA emission standards that require this,

1290
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 2: because I think that electric vehicles can be subsidized and

1291
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: can be created to be a genual competitor. But I

1292
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 2: don't like the idea of forcing people to buy electric cars.

1293
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 5: I don't think anybody.

1294
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 2: Environment where you are directly making it so that with

1295
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: the emission standards that you need to be able to

1296
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: have a situation where look, there's a lot of scenarios

1297
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 2: where people are going to need a gas power vehicle

1298
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: and or want or prefer a gas power vehicle. Not

1299
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: only strategically as he's talking about with our own oil reserves,

1300
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: but you know, for rural life and for people who

1301
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 2: drive like hundreds of miles like that, it's really not

1302
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 2: feasible with the current infrastructure. Not to mention the amount

1303
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 2: of power that we're going to need, actual nuclear power,

1304
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: much cleaner and better power available. This would require, I mean,

1305
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: a massive change in the way that Americans live their

1306
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 2: lives in the next decade, and that's just not going

1307
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 2: to happen with the current incentives that.

1308
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 3: We have here.

1309
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 5: Right.

1310
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: So, there's two sides of what Biden is doing. On

1311
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: the consumer side, there are rebates in place to try

1312
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: to make electric vehicles more affordable, to make it more

1313
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: to make it more appealing for consumers. They're not being

1314
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: forced but to try to bring the cost down so

1315
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: the electric vehicles.

1316
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 5: Are more appealing.

1317
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: On the automaker side, there's a bunch of incentives in

1318
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: place for them to shift to evs. By the way,

1319
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: and we talked about this before with regard to California,

1320
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: the big three automakers already before Biden passed Inflation Reduction

1321
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: Act or any of that, they already saw the future

1322
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: as EV's and they were already moving in this direction.

1323
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: So the Inflation Reduction Act provides additional tax I mean,

1324
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: this is industrial policy, right, They've decided this important play

1325
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: for the future. By the way, China is all in

1326
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: on this market. I mean they have aggressively been funding

1327
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: their own EV market because they see it also as

1328
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: the future and they want to get a job. And

1329
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: they've you know, done way more than we have in

1330
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: terms of both the EV technology and the battery technology specifically,

1331
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: so we are behind. So the other thing than Inflationial

1332
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: Reduction Act does is provides incentives for the automakers in

1333
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: this direction and includes incentives to try to make those

1334
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: jobs good, well.

1335
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 5: Paying union jobs.

1336
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: Now, I personally think they should have gone further in

1337
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: terms of requiring them to be union jobs. So you know,

1338
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 1: all the Tesla people would have been very upset about

1339
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: that because Tesla is not union. Tesla's not union with

1340
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: the CURRU, so it would have been a big issue

1341
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: for them, even though again I agree with Sean Faine

1342
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: that they should have done that. So I just think

1343
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: what he's trying to do here is he's trying to

1344
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: make electric vehicles like a partisan.

1345
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 5: I don't want that to happen, and I don't want

1346
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 5: it either.

1347
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: And the way that most consumers view this is not

1348
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: through a partisan valance. They're just looking at like what's

1349
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: the cost of Guess how much does an EV cost?

1350
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: What's the charging infrastructure? And by the way, looks the

1351
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: charging infrastructure needs to be way better than it is now.

1352
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: There is some money for that within the Inflation Production Act,

1353
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: it's probably not sufficient. That is an important component, it's

1354
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: probably the most important component of making this stant is

1355
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: making this realistic for ordinary people. But most people are

1356
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: just like looking at the math and seeing if this

1357
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: works out for them, and it's really not a partson thing.

1358
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: And I the one thing I will credit Elon Musk

1359
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: for who no I'm not a big fan, is that

1360
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: he has by reading as right wing, he has made

1361
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: evs more acceptable for Republicans, conservatives, independence than back when

1362
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: it was seen in sort of like the preus lens.

1363
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 3: There's two geniuses of Tesla.

1364
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 2: Tesla was a decade ahead of establishing the actual electric

1365
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: vehicle at the very basic consumer level. They brought the

1366
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 2: Model three online and made it one of the best

1367
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 2: selling cars currently in the United States.

1368
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 3: That's number one. Number two is the charging infrastructure.

1369
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: They have over twelve thousand Tesla chargers that are all

1370
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: across the nation, which vastly outstrips every single other nation.

1371
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 2: In fact, I believe that the future value of Tesla

1372
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: will not be the car. It will be effectively Tesla

1373
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 2: as a physical platform. Think of it almost like a

1374
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: tech platform where they're retrofitting and have created deals with

1375
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: Forward and with multiple other.

1376
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 5: And they just did to deal with Ford on starting amer.

1377
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: So they are going to create a way for Ford

1378
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: vehicles and all these other electric vehicles to be able

1379
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: to use the existing Tesla, which I believe that's the

1380
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: biggest leap forward in electric technology and infrastructure has been

1381
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 2: by The thing is, though, and this is where This

1382
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with elon or any of that.

1383
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: Somebody's got to pay for the power. I mean, right now,

1384
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: when you charge up a car, it's actually not that

1385
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: much money. But if we're going to move to a

1386
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: place where two thirds of vehicles are using that, not

1387
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: gas stations, and you're going to have to retrofit all

1388
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 2: this existing infrastructure, we are going to need a ton

1389
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: more power actual you know, physical electricity. And that is

1390
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: where things get really complicated and where I have not

1391
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: yet seen a single real serious effort you know by

1392
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 2: the Biden administration or any of that they are going

1393
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,919
Speaker 2: all in on solar and on when they're nuclear recily

1394
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 2: or Commission is not doing any serious effort. And it's

1395
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: not just them, And there's a Congress that's involved here too.

1396
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: So I don't disagree with you. I mean I think

1397
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: it's a bad place. I hope that electric vehicle does

1398
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 2: not become partisan, because I think they're awesome cars. I

1399
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: do think that there very much can be the future,

1400
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of stuff that has to line

1401
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 2: up behind it. The current status quo is really not

1402
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 2: one where we want to end up. I mean, currently

1403
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 2: gas power vehicles, brand new electric, but brand new gas power.

1404
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 3: Vehicles are still quite expensive.

1405
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 2: They're like fifty fifty forty five thousand dollars, I believe

1406
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: is the average price.

1407
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 3: On top of that, you got four dollars a gallon

1408
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 3: right now.

1409
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: As I said, though, I think that the gas I

1410
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 2: think gas powered vehicles will always have a place in

1411
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 2: American life, largely because of people who live in more

1412
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 2: rural communities. Because of this, the ability for us to

1413
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 2: actually to take it out of our ground and not

1414
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: have to rely on foreign countries if we want to

1415
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: in order to achieve that. That said, you know, if

1416
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: you want to create a real mix, the current path

1417
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 2: forward isn't a terrible one where a lot of people

1418
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 2: are just buying Teslas because they're cool with cars or

1419
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: Ford Electric you know, Ford must yeah, or any of those,

1420
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 2: And that's kind of where you want to keep it.

1421
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 2: You want to keep it at the consumer level where

1422
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 2: people are choosing them. I think it's like ten percent

1423
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 2: or so or whatever of the market right now, because

1424
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 2: there is either a second car, it's largely like a

1425
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: middle class, upper middle class thing right now. But as

1426
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 2: the Model three, especially right now, Tesla is massively cutting

1427
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 2: its prices I'm very interested to see what the uptake

1428
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 2: is on there. I mean when you can buy a

1429
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 2: brand new Tesla for like thirty three thousand dollars or something,

1430
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 2: or even a used one for twenty five thousand dollars

1431
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: with not that much mileage on it, that changes the

1432
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 2: whole game.

1433
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, for how this is going to work, that's true.

1434
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean I have a FORTYV I love it. It

1435
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: gets more than three hundred miles range. It's been very

1436
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: I would not at this point, given the charging infrastructure,

1437
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: I would not want that to.

1438
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 5: Be my only car.

1439
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the problem it is for you know, if

1440
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: we long road trips with the kids, like, that's a

1441
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: pain in the ass.

1442
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 5: Right.

1443
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: And so those are the sorts of like pragmatic considerations

1444
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are making. It's like weighing

1445
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: the costs. What's gas, what's the charging infrastructure?

1446
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 7: Look like?

1447
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 5: What am I going to use this for? Et cetera.

1448
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: And I charge at my house right, So for me,

1449
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: it's very easy. I almost never charge it the chargers whatever.

1450
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: I just don't go further than what I can go.

1451
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 3: That's a I mean, look at Bernie Man.

1452
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: I mean, one thing is like you don't want to

1453
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: be one hundred percent reliant on You're like, oh, I'm

1454
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 2: just going to drive this Tesla charging station out in

1455
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 2: the middle of the desert.

1456
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're like, that works out. It's not working.

1457
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 2: Ninety five percent of the time. It will but five

1458
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: percent of the time and you got no cell service.

1459
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 2: What the hell are you going to do?

1460
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 5: Right? Yeah?

1461
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 3: Sure, so deal with gas too.

1462
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 5: Those are the practical boers.

1463
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: On the political front, let me say I think Trump

1464
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: is he has He also often has good instincts, even

1465
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: when I hate what he's saying, which part of most

1466
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: of what he said, I hate what he said. But

1467
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: I think on the union anti union part, I think

1468
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: he's really off base if we just look at the

1469
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: numbers in terms of how the public feels about unions.

1470
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: If you look at the at the fact that the

1471
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: UAW is just about to have this giant fight with

1472
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: the automakers, so to be like the bosses, you know,

1473
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: the union bosses are selling you out. I just don't

1474
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: think that that comports with reality public sentiment in America broadly,

1475
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: or even within the Republican base at this point. So

1476
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: that's one thing I think he probably is right in

1477
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: sensing that there is an increasing partisan valance to EV's

1478
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: and that there is obviously a lot of skepticism within

1479
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: the Republican base about doing anything with regard to climate change,

1480
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: and so I think, you know, on the politics of it,

1481
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,479
Speaker 1: on that piece, I suspect he's probably kind of prescient here,

1482
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: and you know, I hate that that's the case, but

1483
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: I think it's probably true.

1484
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: I think that the F one fifty in particular was

1485
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 2: such a massive mistake here because they tried to over

1486
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 2: promise to their core consumer.

1487
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 3: A lot of Republicans drive Ford.

1488
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 2: F one fifties and in rural areas, and they were like, no,

1489
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: this is going to be able to totally replace it,

1490
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 2: and the thing whenever you got real cargo has got

1491
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 2: like one hundred mile range. I think that EV proponents,

1492
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: which I am, really need to be realistic about use

1493
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 2: case of infrastructure, about the pain points about all of that,

1494
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 2: and then can't be just telling folks who are actual farmers, yeah,

1495
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: you can totally replace your for fifty.

1496
01:07:58,920 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1497
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 2: If look, if you drive truck for fun, go for it.

1498
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's probably a hell of a lot of fun.

1499
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 2: If it's your second car or something like that. But

1500
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 2: that's not the privilege you know that most people have,

1501
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 2: and it's not even the primary reason that people are

1502
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: buying trucks, or at least the use case there for

1503
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 2: what they exist. I just think that people need to

1504
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: stay within the Roman reality here and not over promise

1505
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 2: and then under delivered. They have to actually over deliver,

1506
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 2: which is what a lot of Tesla cars have been

1507
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 2: able to do for their consumers. Part of the reason

1508
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: why they have such a high amount of brand recognition

1509
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 2: people who desire the cars, because it's not just that

1510
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: that they want it. They have people who have it,

1511
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 2: they know people who love it and all that, and

1512
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: it is never really under delivered in terms of what

1513
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: they've promised whenever it at least comes to range and

1514
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 2: all that. I know there's some lawsuits, but that's mostly

1515
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 2: from years ago. The brand new cars. They pretty much

1516
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 2: have not seen any of those same problems. Yeah, but anyway,

1517
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: I think it was an interesting discussion.

1518
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's move on.

1519
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 7: Bill Maher.

1520
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: Bill Maher, you might have seen him.

1521
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 2: He's on the podcast circuit right now promoting Club Random.

1522
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 2: He had an interesting moment on his podcast with Jim

1523
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 2: Again where he talked about the writer's strike, and it

1524
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: seems that Bill is getting a little bit cranky about

1525
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 2: not being able to do a show.

1526
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1527
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 10: The strike is a perfect example. Those guys would never

1528
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 10: go back. This strike could go on till the twenty

1529
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 10: fourth century. They would stay out. There is I feel

1530
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 10: for my writers. I love my writers. I'm one of

1531
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 10: my writers. But there's a big other side to it,

1532
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 10: and a lot of people are being hurt besides them,

1533
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 10: a lot of people who don't make as much money

1534
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 10: as them. In this bipartisan world we have where you're

1535
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 10: just in one camp or the other. There's no in between.

1536
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 10: You're either for the strike, like they're fucking Shay Guavera

1537
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 10: out there, you know, like this is Caesar Chavez, let

1538
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 10: us picking strike, or you're with Trump. You know, like

1539
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 10: there's no different there's only two camps. And it's much

1540
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 10: more complicated than that it is.

1541
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 11: But I do feel like there is a lot of

1542
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 11: the points, a lot of the grievances I kind of

1543
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 11: agree with.

1544
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 10: I do understand that they're getting screwed a bit by

1545
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 10: the streamers.

1546
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I.

1547
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 11: Mean, but it's a change, and you either, you know,

1548
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 11: it's like anything that is you know, I believe in

1549
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 11: free market, but I also believe in trust and then

1550
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 11: verify right, meaning you know you don't trust, you know,

1551
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 11: like the reason I mean Zaslov made four hundred million

1552
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 11: dollars and I think that they're they're looking for eighty

1553
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 11: million for you know. It's like it's like they're gonna,

1554
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 11: you know, you leave a kid in front of a

1555
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 11: bowl of marshmallows. They're going to eat the marshmallows. It's

1556
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 11: not like some grand thing. It's well, I don't know

1557
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 11: what you're saying. They're only asking for eighty million dollars. Well,

1558
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 11: I'm asking for a lot of things. They're asking for

1559
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 11: a lot of things like kookie.

1560
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 10: Like what what I find objectionable about the philosophy of

1561
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 10: the strike. It seems to be they have really morphed

1562
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 10: a long way from two thousand and seven strike, where

1563
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 10: they kind of believe that you're owed a living as

1564
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 10: a writer and you're not. This is show business. This

1565
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 10: is a make or miss league and not everybody.

1566
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 11: You don't think that like they should that streamers should

1567
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 11: reveal numbers so that they can oh maybe.

1568
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 3: Sure, wow, you are you?

1569
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: They kind of believe you're owed a living as a

1570
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 2: writer and you're not imagine being one of the writers

1571
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 2: on his own show. How would you feel about that

1572
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 2: whenever you're on strike? I don't really understand. But at

1573
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 2: a broader level, and look, you can agree or disagree

1574
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 2: with him.

1575
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 3: The thing is that gets me is.

1576
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: Just the privileged position of being obviously at the near

1577
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 2: tail end of your career, of having made decades of

1578
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 2: success and tons of money in Hollywood and on HBO,

1579
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 2: and then kind of lecturing these folks, even those who

1580
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: are coming up up, who are trying to just have

1581
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 2: the even just a basic shot, and then even those

1582
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 2: who want extraordinary success see so much of what's going

1583
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: on with the writer strike as their ability in order

1584
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 2: to attain that without having their literal likeness stripped away

1585
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 2: by AI, without having the ability to get the residual

1586
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 2: checks and all these other things that some of these

1587
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 2: people have been banking on. Frankly, they're not even going

1588
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 2: to be making that, you know, They're really fighting more

1589
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 2: for different protections of which I think are correct. Specifically

1590
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 2: whenever it comes to AI. That's where I was like,

1591
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 2: what kookie thing does he think that they're asking for?

1592
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 5: I know I wanted a little bit.

1593
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,600
Speaker 1: You are like elaborate on what part of just like

1594
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 1: wanting to be able to live and earn, you know,

1595
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: earn a.

1596
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 5: Decent wage is kooky.

1597
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: Now listen, in fairness of Bill Maher, my understanding is

1598
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: that his people are paid well, that they can live,

1599
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: that they you know, that he does believe they are

1600
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: owed a living as a writer, at least as a

1601
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: writer for his show. So I don't think he's treating

1602
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: you know, in my limited experience there, I don't think

1603
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: he's treating his people shabbily at all, Which makes this

1604
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 1: commentary even more a little more dissonant, because it's like, look,

1605
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: they see the fact that the industry has changed a lot, right,

1606
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: and they see what's coming down the pike here in

1607
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 1: terms of using AI, and this is what all this

1608
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: This is one of the big sticking points with the

1609
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: writers strikes. Specifically, the studios want to be able to

1610
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: use AI, like, for example, to generate first drafts of scripts,

1611
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: and then writers are brought in after the fact to

1612
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: just polish the scripts that the robots wrote. Now, I

1613
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:32,719
Speaker 1: don't personally think the tech is even at the place

1614
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: where it could feasibly do that at this point. But

1615
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: it's not crazy to imagine that that is coming very

1616
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: soon before whenever will be the next chance for them

1617
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: to renegotiate their contract. And so they clearly see these

1618
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: stakes as existential. That's why, you know, this has not

1619
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: been easy for these writers. They've been out of work

1620
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: for a long time. The studios said they're willing to

1621
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 1: make them homeless, and some of them are like living

1622
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: that reality. They are losing their apartments, they're losing their homes.

1623
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,759
Speaker 1: They this is very, very real for them. They wouldn't

1624
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: be doing it casually. The other part part of the

1625
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: framing that I really object to is he says at

1626
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: the beginning, I feel for my writers, but there's a

1627
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: big other side where other people are getting hurt, who

1628
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: you know, make less money that they do something like that.

1629
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: It's like pinning the whole problem on the writers, as

1630
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 1: if the studios don't share any blames who for trying

1631
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 1: to screw them over and really have it, you know,

1632
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: given them any sort of a deal that's feasible for

1633
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:34,600
Speaker 1: them whatsoever. So I always that framing, to me, is

1634
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: so so disingenuous and so inaccurate that it's always the

1635
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: fault of the workers who are trying to demand a

1636
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: little bit better and demand like a fair piece of

1637
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: this gigantic part of the economy, and they're the ones

1638
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: that are blamed versus the studio executives who are rolling in,

1639
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, have plenty lots of money and you know,

1640
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 1: did great during the pandemic and whatever. Somehow it's never

1641
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: their fault for screwing.

1642
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 3: And they're the ones who, like, you know, have all

1643
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 3: the money.

1644
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 2: And I just don't know Also at point which point

1645
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 2: this is going to fold, because the problem is is

1646
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: that even public attention right now is going to be

1647
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 2: so divided. I mean, think about it. All massed attention

1648
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: in the United States is about to go towards football,

1649
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 2: but it's like it's football season. It's one of those

1650
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 2: which is going to dominate. We are here on a

1651
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 2: platform like YouTube where user generated content is going to continue,

1652
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 2: but also prestige content. I'm doing my whole monologue about

1653
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 2: this about prestige content, about why original scripts and all

1654
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: that are so important. That's part of the reason why

1655
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 2: I'm so sympathetic to so many of these demands is

1656
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: because I'm like, this is really the you know, the

1657
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 2: engine of creativity. If we go to an AI generated world.

1658
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:40,639
Speaker 2: We all know it's going to be crap. AI only

1659
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 2: generates off of other AI. It doesn't have at least yet,

1660
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't have its own physical creativity. And

1661
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 2: so look, I think that that what mar fundamentally is,

1662
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I think he just misunderstands because

1663
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 2: even the writers who are on strike, these are professional writers.

1664
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 3: It's like they're not owed a living.

1665
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,680
Speaker 2: Like sure, anybody who's writing a specscript and is like,

1666
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 2: it's my dream to become a writer, of course, but

1667
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 2: these are actual professionals who are in the business, who

1668
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 2: are making a living or at least trying to make

1669
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: a living by doing so that's a whole other, you know,

1670
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,640
Speaker 2: different consideration. So anyway, I think the whole thing was

1671
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: pretty out of touch for Bill Maher.

1672
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 5: All right, sagary looking at it.

1673
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 2: Well, like many people, the ideas behind the fourth Turning

1674
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 2: of I Kneel how have intrigued me now for a

1675
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 2: long time. There's oceans of discussion out there about how

1676
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 2: house thesis pertains to politics where the ruling regime loses legitimacy,

1677
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 2: the population reaches a crisis point in politics, and often

1678
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 2: either a civil war or World War is required to

1679
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 2: end the cycle.

1680
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 3: What people often miss.

1681
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 2: In the analysis of the fourth turning are his pressient

1682
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 2: and yet equally important discussions of how each turning is

1683
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 2: reflected in pop culture and how what art is popular

1684
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 2: in each turn relates to the larger trends.

1685
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 3: I couldn't help thinking about that. Over the Labor Day weekend, the.

1686
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 2: Official numbers of the summer box office season have come out,

1687
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 2: showing a stunning reversal of more than a decade of

1688
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,799
Speaker 2: American pop culture and Hollywood successful formulas. The two major

1689
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 2: hits of the summer blockbuster season are now officially Barbie

1690
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 2: and Oppenheimer, beating out traditional franchise hits like The Latest

1691
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 2: Mission Impossible and the latest installment of the Indiana Jones franchise.

1692
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 2: But what is really stunning is to consider Barbie and

1693
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 2: Oppenheimer in broader context. Barbie has now crossed the coveted

1694
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 2: one billion dollar worldwide box office threshold, and Christopher Nolans

1695
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: Oppenheimer is now one of the highest grossing R rated

1696
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: films of all time. Consider Barbie, for example, against Guardians

1697
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 2: of the Galaxy three, which is the end of a

1698
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 2: particular franchise and one of the only good Marvel movies

1699
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 2: to actually come out in years, it grows only eight

1700
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars globally at the box office. That's not

1701
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 2: to even mention the pathetic performance so far of DC

1702
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 2: comics movies like Flash and Blue Beetle, which are a

1703
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 2: decade too late to the craze and hopefully will die

1704
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 2: or at least be reborn in a more dignified fashion.

1705
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 2: The sudden reversal with films like Barbie Oppenheimer and Sound

1706
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 2: of Freedom crushing major franchise films at the box office

1707
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 2: is a massive demarcation point in American culture, and it

1708
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 2: returns us possibly to the best of Hollywood. Great scripts,

1709
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,839
Speaker 2: great casts, original screenplays, big dollars at the box office.

1710
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 2: The real test comes in the next year or so.

1711
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 2: Which era are we going to live in? We get

1712
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: to choose. Consider some of the other films that are

1713
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 2: coming out in the next year or so. Ridley Scott

1714
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 2: with Joaquin Phoenix for what is sure to be a

1715
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: stunning Napoleon biopic, or the character actor Adam Driver starring

1716
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,679
Speaker 2: alongside Penelope Cruz in Ferrari, or Leo and Scorsese coming

1717
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 2: to us once again with Killers of the Flower Moon

1718
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 2: Or which is already one of the best nonfiction books

1719
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 2: to come out in the last decade. And don't get

1720
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 2: me wrong, there are plenty of franchise films that will

1721
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 2: still come out.

1722
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 3: Saw ten, which.

1723
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 2: We needed, of course, a new Hungry Games movie, Nu

1724
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 2: Wonka movie, and Aquaman two The Marvels which looks like

1725
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 2: one of the worst movies ever and only one that

1726
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 2: I'm actually excited for doone too. If only the best,

1727
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 2: though of those, survive, and great original screenplays with stars

1728
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 2: and great directors do thrive alongside them, it will be

1729
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 2: a sound message to Hollywood, no more recycled crap. We

1730
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 2: demand originality. More so, it is important to connect our

1731
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 2: pop culture again to the fourth turning in the context

1732
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: of geopolitics. The economics of Marvel movies didn't make as

1733
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 2: much sense just for American box offices. It was because

1734
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 2: they occurred at the height of Obama era, globalization and

1735
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 2: the coddling of China. Marvel movies found incredible success in

1736
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: emerging box offices, and that led to the watering down

1737
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 2: of scripts that were relevant across all cultures, as opposed

1738
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 2: to references that people could truly understand at home. In

1739
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,720
Speaker 2: the era though of great power competition, the Chinese box

1740
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 2: office dream is basically dead. Even Marvel movies that were

1741
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 2: targeted to China like Shangxi and The Rings, were banned

1742
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: for political purposes, and Hollywood has found itself increasing demands

1743
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 2: for censorship which even they can't bow to. This of

1744
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 2: course forces their hand. If they can't have access to

1745
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 2: that market, they got to change their approach, and that

1746
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 2: change would work far better if you actually like good movies.

1747
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 2: The great stagnation that we saw in our economy since

1748
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight has of course affected us all

1749
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 2: in much much more important ways like access to housing, jobs, inflation, wages,

1750
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 2: wealth inequality. But the way in which we both entertain

1751
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 2: ourselves and that we demand of our entertainment.

1752
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 3: Says also a lot about us.

1753
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 2: The stagnation of Hollywood led to an explosion of streaming

1754
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 2: content for niche individual audiences. This was downstream of the Internet,

1755
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 2: which of course also coincided and pushed along politics of division. Now,

1756
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 2: I am the firm belief a national identity is a

1757
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 2: result of a major economic and good conditions and uniting beliefs.

1758
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:37,719
Speaker 2: Hollywood at its best, in its golden age, it served

1759
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 2: as a vehicle for everyone to find a piece of

1760
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 2: themselves in silver screen and to experience collective moments together.

1761
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 2: And perhaps one good result of all of the chaos

1762
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 2: over the last fifteen years is the birth of a

1763
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 2: new era reclaiming that legacy, which could lead to better

1764
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 2: times far ahead. So interesting, Crystal, I'm curious what you

1765
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 2: make of it. I know you didn't like Barbie, but and.

1766
01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: If you want to hear my reaction to Sager's model,

1767
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:06,479
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1768
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 3: Crystal, what do you take a look at?

1769
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: Well, guys, Labor Day is back for the first time

1770
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: in modern history. Rather than some nostalgic anachronism of a

1771
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 1: bygone era when labor actually commanded some real respect on

1772
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 1: our economic system, Labor Day twenty twenty three came with

1773
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 1: a little bit of bite and a whole lot of promise.

1774
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: This new labor energy is every bit as exciting as

1775
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 1: our sclerotic political system is depressing. Rising strike and organizing action,

1776
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: combined with some genuinely significant policy changes, has made this

1777
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: a hot labor summer to remember. And I am one

1778
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 1: hundred percent here for it. And into this mixed steps

1779
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 1: autoworkers who could in mere weeks launch a groundbreaking, potentially

1780
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:45,759
Speaker 1: transformational strike. We may well look back at this moment

1781
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: and this Labor Day as a turning point from the

1782
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: bottoming out of worker power during the neoliberal era.

1783
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 5: So first let's take a look at the big picture.

1784
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: Strike activity is way up in twenty twenty three after

1785
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: a pandemic era lull. Actors and writers, of course, are

1786
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 1: on strike ups. Workers authorized a strike but instead secured

1787
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: a very strong deal for themselves, and now auto workers

1788
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 1: are weeks away from a possible strike of all the

1789
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 1: Big three if the automakers do not come to the

1790
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: table with a serious offer and fast. What's transformational about

1791
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: all of these actions is that at their core, they're

1792
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 1: actually about workers trying to claim a fair deal in

1793
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:24,200
Speaker 1: a rapidly evolving economy focused on technology. Actors don't want

1794
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,879
Speaker 1: to be harvested for AI and screwed by streaming. Writers

1795
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: don't want to be an assistant to chat GPT. Auto

1796
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 1: workers are demanding a just ev transition that will not

1797
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 1: leave them behind and shift yet another industry into a

1798
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: worker's race to the bottom. But that's not even close

1799
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: to all New York Times compiled a remarkable visual chart

1800
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: showing the number of workers who've gone out on strike

1801
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 1: this year as compared to previous years. Now you can

1802
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 1: see the numbers for this year. If autoworkers hit the

1803
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,719
Speaker 1: picket lines will look more like the seventies and eighties

1804
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:55,320
Speaker 1: when union density was far higher than it looks like

1805
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:56,520
Speaker 1: the early two thousands.

1806
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,440
Speaker 5: Now. That makes these numbers even more extraordinary.

1807
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,639
Speaker 1: Looking at the chart, though, you really come to realize

1808
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:03,800
Speaker 1: how this moment actually kicked off. With the Red state

1809
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 1: teacher strike waves of twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, those

1810
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: movements signified workers of all political persuasions were ready to

1811
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: fight back in a big way. But what's happening now

1812
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 1: is maybe even more significant because of its breadth. Cornell

1813
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: University School of Industrial and Labor Relations has tracked two

1814
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty one work stoppages just this year. One

1815
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 1: of the stories that the new labor energy is about

1816
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: smaller shops, places like individual Starbucks stores organizing. So it

1817
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense that a wave of small

1818
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: scale action would be happening underneath the surface of the

1819
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 1: big headline stories like ups and auto workers. Now there's

1820
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: a lot of indications too, that the moment is particularly ripe.

1821
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: The public, having soured on the free market radicalism of

1822
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: the past several decades, is increasingly supportive of unions and

1823
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 1: eager for them to have more power. After heading a

1824
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: trough in two thousand and nine, the number of Americans

1825
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: yearning for union power has steadily increased.

1826
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 5: Through Occupy Wall.

1827
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,719
Speaker 1: Street, into burning campaigns and COVID, more and more people

1828
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,679
Speaker 1: have realize that part of what ails the American working

1829
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,560
Speaker 1: class is a lack of organized power and a political

1830
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: class which has often joined together to block their aspirations. Today,

1831
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 1: a higher number of Americans forty three percent say union

1832
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 1: should have more power than at any time since that

1833
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: question was first asked, Only twenty six percent say union

1834
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 1: should have less power. You go back to two thousand

1835
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,640
Speaker 1: and nine, those two numbers were completely flipped.

1836
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 5: In low and behold.

1837
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 1: Politicians are actually somewhat responding to this new reality. Just

1838
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: take a look at Joe Biden's National Labor Relations Board,

1839
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 1: which is perhaps the absolute best thing about his administration

1840
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,719
Speaker 1: and is truly significant. They issued key rulings which enabled

1841
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: the Starbucks and other graster's union drives. Recently, they've issued

1842
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,759
Speaker 1: a spree of highly based rulings which could completely transform

1843
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: a union landscape. As Biden would say, not a joke.

1844
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 1: The Biden Department of Labor is pushing to up the

1845
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 1: overtime thresholds so that more workers will qualify for overtime pay,

1846
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: significantly increasing the earnings of millions. The National Labor Relations

1847
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 1: Board also just strengthened protections for so long low work actions,

1848
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,719
Speaker 1: encouraging more workers to engage in protests that could prompt

1849
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: future group actions. But in what is a true labor earthquake,

1850
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: they just issued a ruling which would require employers to

1851
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: recognize unions and start bargaining if that boss is caught

1852
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 1: union busting. Now, keep in mind, union busting labor violations

1853
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: are so common and so completely routine, that this ruling

1854
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 1: alone could de facto make so called card check the

1855
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:29,839
Speaker 1: law of the land. In other words, if a majority

1856
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,720
Speaker 1: of workers signed cards indicating they want a union, and

1857
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 1: bosses then try to union busts, which they always do,

1858
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: the elections canceled and the union is recognized. At the

1859
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:42,600
Speaker 1: very least, it will powerfully dissuade the commonplace attacks on

1860
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 1: unions which have run rampant because there has been zero accountability.

1861
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:46,519
Speaker 5: Now.

1862
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,679
Speaker 1: I wish I could say Republicans have gotten a memo,

1863
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: but outside of some vaguely pro labor rhetoric, it's just

1864
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 1: not the case right now. In fact, Congressional Republicans are

1865
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: working hand in glove with the Chamber of Commerce to

1866
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 1: hamstring the operation of the National Labor Relations Board, So

1867
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: it can't do any more good things for working people

1868
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 1: throughout the remainder of this Biden term. But I guess

1869
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 1: he can say at least that union busting is no

1870
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 1: longer the animating caused celeb in the Republican Party.

1871
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 5: That it was a decade ago.

1872
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: When you think about Scott Walker running the Koch Brothers

1873
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: playbook to decimate unions in one of their historic strongholds

1874
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin, or when you think about Chris Christy, who

1875
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: rose to fame in conservative stardom by screaming at teachers

1876
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 1: and beefing with unions. Now, I know, I'm supposed to

1877
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 1: temper my expectations here. After all, the economy could be turning,

1878
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: making things a lot more difficult for workers. Union density

1879
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 1: still declined last year, in spite of a whole lot

1880
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: of new energy and despite real wins the overall landscape

1881
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: is still tilted radically against workers. But I can't help

1882
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 1: but feel on this Labor Day twenty twenty three, that

1883
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 1: a dam has indeed broken, that we have now reached

1884
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 1: the depths, and perhaps the story from here will be

1885
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 1: one of workers actually scoring some wins in the class

1886
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: war that is always being waged against them.

1887
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:52,639
Speaker 5: So for everyone out.

1888
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: There with the courage to fight for a better deal,

1889
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:58,640
Speaker 1: Happy Labor Day. Than Nation is with you, and I

1890
01:26:58,640 --> 01:26:59,800
Speaker 1: do think we're at a turning point.

1891
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1892
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints.

1893
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: Dot com writer and activist Freddy Divor is out with

1894
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: a new book.

1895
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 5: Let's go and put it up on the screen. Excited

1896
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 5: dig in this one.

1897
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,719
Speaker 1: The headline is how Elites eight the social justice Movement.

1898
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:20,719
Speaker 1: It is available today and Freddy joins us now to discuss.

1899
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,599
Speaker 1: Great to see you, my friend, Thanks for having me on. Yeah,

1900
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 1: of course, what inspired the book.

1901
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 12: I just had a feeling in sort of early twenty

1902
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 12: twenty two, So I sold the book in May of

1903
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 12: twenty twenty two. I just feeling that I was just

1904
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 12: going crazy because a couple of years earlier, everyone was

1905
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:44,480
Speaker 12: talking about revolution. Every day you read a new, overheated

1906
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 12: piece about how we had to sort of shake society

1907
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 12: by its foundations, that we would not settle for reform,

1908
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,600
Speaker 12: that everything had to be torn up by the roots.

1909
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 12: And then in a couple of years later, it just

1910
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 12: felt like everyone had kind of decided to sideline that,

1911
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 12: ignore it, and pretend like it didn't happen because they

1912
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,679
Speaker 12: were embarrassed by the fact that nothing changed.

1913
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 7: I think that the events of twenty twenty.

1914
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 12: Indicated very deep and very real problems with our country,

1915
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:19,680
Speaker 12: and that those problems need to be met effectively, and

1916
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 12: that didn't happen in twenty twenty. And if you take

1917
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 12: those problems seriously, you have to ask, how can we

1918
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 12: do this better in the future.

1919
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 7: And that's what the book is all about.

1920
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 3: Freddie.

1921
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 2: One of the things that leaps out, you know, you

1922
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 2: mentioned the Washington Post review had it up in front

1923
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 2: of me, and it's one of those where they kind

1924
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 2: of take issue. They're like, well, Freddie Debor ostensibly says

1925
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 2: the left was co opted here by elite movements, that

1926
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 2: they were defeated in their aims. And as you said,

1927
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 2: now too embarrassed to talk about like specific instances that

1928
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:50,639
Speaker 2: you kind of go into in the book about where

1929
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 2: you think that was the most prevalent.

1930
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 12: Well, I can tell you one of the things that

1931
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 12: invited just rage very early in the process. So at

1932
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:02,640
Speaker 12: some point the publishing company unleash the table of contents

1933
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 12: onto the world before the book itself was available. And

1934
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 12: one of the chapters is titled BPMCLM, which means back,

1935
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 12: black professional Lives Matter, but a black professional managerial class.

1936
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 7: Lives matter, Excuse me.

1937
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 12: And the argument is I think both completely just sort

1938
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,640
Speaker 12: of undeniable, but also very controversial, which is that the

1939
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:30,160
Speaker 12: activists who made up Black Lives Matter are not like

1940
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 12: the median black American. They're not even like the median

1941
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 12: black Democrat. Now, I want to say very quickly that

1942
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 12: that's okay.

1943
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 7: It's not their.

1944
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 12: Job to be avatars of media and black experience. Their

1945
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 12: job is just to advocate for what they think is right.

1946
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 12: The problem is that the media just sort of took

1947
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 12: whatever Black Lives Matter activists were saying as sort of

1948
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,800
Speaker 12: the gospel of what sort of black popular opinion was,

1949
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:00,759
Speaker 12: and we know that that's just not true. I cite

1950
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:03,720
Speaker 12: a lot of polling in the piece, for example, that

1951
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 12: it's simply not the case that the average Black American

1952
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 12: wants to abolish the police, defund the police, or even

1953
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 12: reduce police presence in their.

1954
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 7: Neighborhoods.

1955
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,280
Speaker 12: In fact, in poll after poll, black respondents say that

1956
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:21,880
Speaker 12: they want the police presence in their neighborhoods to remain

1957
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 12: the same or to even increase in dramatic majorities, which

1958
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 12: of course makes sense if you are among class of

1959
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 12: people for whom violent crime is much more likely to occur.

1960
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 12: It's natural to want more police in your neighborhood. If

1961
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 12: you have less property because you're more poor as a

1962
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 12: class of people, it's natural to want more police in

1963
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 12: your neighborhood. But that kind of attitude was really forbot

1964
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 12: in within our elite media class in twenty twenty, because

1965
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:55,760
Speaker 12: they wanted to associate all of Black America with a

1966
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 12: sort of very thin slice of the activist class, which

1967
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 12: is hyper educated, which is overwhelmingly concentrated in urban parts

1968
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 12: of the country, which is inculturated into a certain elite

1969
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 12: sort of status and vocabulary, which sort of emerges from

1970
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 12: this meritocratic space. In the fact that the medium black democrat,

1971
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,719
Speaker 12: so the more left lying are You know, the average

1972
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 12: person is fairly liberal economically, but in fact, the media

1973
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 12: and Black Democrat has always been slightly to the right

1974
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 12: of the party's mainstream when it comes to social issues.

1975
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 7: And it's just not true that every Black American is

1976
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,320
Speaker 7: a radical activist, and it would be bizarre.

1977
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:36,760
Speaker 3: If it was so.

1978
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 1: But you wouldn't deny that there was an organic, national,

1979
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: widespread reaction in response to the murder of George Floyd,

1980
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 1: and that the core of that reaction was about changing

1981
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 1: the way that police police operate, and specifically changing the

1982
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 1: way that police operate in overwhelmingly black neighborhoods.

1983
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1984
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 12: I mean again, the basic premise of this book is

1985
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 12: that anything that we have a moral duty to do,

1986
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,360
Speaker 12: we have a moral duty to do well. Right, So

1987
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 12: if you say we have a moral duty to prevent

1988
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 12: police violence against black people, I would absolutely agree. I

1989
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:19,759
Speaker 12: would say that that's one of our most sacred political

1990
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 12: duties right now, and we did a terrible job of

1991
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:23,680
Speaker 12: it in twenty twenty of.

1992
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:24,599
Speaker 7: Advancing that cause.

1993
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:28,720
Speaker 12: There is just profoundly little on the ground difference in

1994
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 12: terms of how policing is being done in this country

1995
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 12: in a moment in which we had enormous media attention

1996
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 12: when there was more goodwill than you can possibly imagine.

1997
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 12: I think that this is forgotten. As I refer to

1998
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 12: in the book, there was a period immediately after George

1999
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,919
Speaker 12: Floyd's murder when even majorities of Republicans in some polls

2000
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 12: were expressing favorable views of the Black Lives Matter protests.

2001
01:32:55,920 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 12: That was an incredibly fertile moment for real change, and

2002
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:05,799
Speaker 12: real change didn't happen. So yes, absolutely, the George Floyd

2003
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 12: moment was a moment in which we should have gotten

2004
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 12: serious and made some real changes to American policing. I

2005
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:15,679
Speaker 12: think that the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, which

2006
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:17,439
Speaker 12: is a bill before that went before Congress.

2007
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,240
Speaker 7: Uh you know, is it.

2008
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 12: Flawed like any other big omnibus legislation is. But I

2009
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 12: think it had a lot of great provisions. Unfortunately, it

2010
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 12: sort of died in the middle because the activist class

2011
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 12: said that it was a watered down compromise and they

2012
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 12: didn't want to hear about it being sort of a

2013
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 12: major goal. And then you know, it sort of got

2014
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:40,959
Speaker 12: lost in the mayre of.

2015
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 7: Of democratic centrism on the other side.

2016
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 1: So let me let me get you to respond to

2017
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: one piece of the Washington Post review because they're talking about,

2018
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, you're making the case here that basically, you know,

2019
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:54,719
Speaker 1: nothing really changed at federal level, Like that's indisputable, nothing

2020
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,679
Speaker 1: changed literally, But they say, you know, at the local level,

2021
01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:59,639
Speaker 1: there were things that happened, and I'll just read this book.

2022
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 1: They say that he makes much of the lack of

2023
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 1: ensuing federal legislation. Not all meaningful change takes place at

2024
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 1: the national level, and not all institutional overhaul is enshrined

2025
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 1: in law. BLM prompted innumerable legal reforms in states and cities,

2026
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 1: among them the reallocation of police funds in La bans

2027
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 1: on choke holds in deer gas in Colorado, but it

2028
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 1: also inspired a generation and progressive prosecutors who vowed to

2029
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 1: change the criminal justice system from within. What's your response

2030
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: to that sort of pushback?

2031
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 12: Sure, so, I mean, I think as I go through

2032
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 12: in the book, a number of those reforms has since

2033
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 12: been rolled back. I mean, Minneapolis, which is where George

2034
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 12: Floyd was killed, is the sort of the prototypical example

2035
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:39,680
Speaker 12: where the city council responded to that by voting to

2036
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 12: dissolve the current police department and build a new one

2037
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:47,759
Speaker 12: that was then in the future changed to simply reducing

2038
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:51,280
Speaker 12: the budget of the existing police force, and then after

2039
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 12: that they increased the budget of the existing police force,

2040
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 12: so everything was completely undone over time. There have been

2041
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:02,000
Speaker 12: some things that have been in specific locations, but I

2042
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 12: also mentioned things that appear not to have worked. So

2043
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 12: for example, in Portland where drugs have been effectively decriminalized

2044
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,080
Speaker 12: in many ways, so essentially you get a ticket and

2045
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 12: an offer to go to rehab, but no one's forcing

2046
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 12: you to go to rehab, and has led to just

2047
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 12: spiraling overdose races in those places. But the overarching point

2048
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 12: I would make is again, compare what she is saying

2049
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 12: as success to the demands that were being made in

2050
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 12: twenty twenty. Again, we weren't saying, let's have some limited

2051
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 12: local reforms that create some sort of positive good for

2052
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 12: police violence against black people. Know, what was being demanded

2053
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:49,280
Speaker 12: was that we completely change our relationship towards race. Those

2054
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:52,879
Speaker 12: reforms don't amount to that. The media and black American

2055
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,799
Speaker 12: and the average Black American out there is likely seeing

2056
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 12: nothing substantial in the differences with their local police force

2057
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:04,439
Speaker 12: at all, And at some point you have to ask, right,

2058
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 12: like all this money got bored into a bunch of

2059
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 12: institutions who did things like, you know, create scholarship programs

2060
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 12: or beef up their DEI wings. That you have to

2061
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 12: ask if that's actually the last thing impact of the

2062
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 12: twenty twenty moment, just that a lot of bureaucrats got paid.

2063
01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 2: Well, I think, I mean, I don't think there's any

2064
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 2: way not insured from your book or just subjective analysis,

2065
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 2: that's obviously what happened. I mean, that's why I think

2066
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,360
Speaker 2: that your PMC point is so accurate. It's like, oh, well,

2067
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 2: now every company that goes public on the Nasdaq has

2068
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 2: to have what like a blacker minority person on the board.

2069
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but it doesn't change the way that

2070
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:43,759
Speaker 2: they do business. Or as you said, you know, whenever

2071
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:46,720
Speaker 2: we're talking about DEI bureaucrats, that ever explode, but there's

2072
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:50,120
Speaker 2: no evidence that it's actually helping like materially the lives

2073
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 2: of you know, your average I brought black working class

2074
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 2: citizen you write, or what they take away of yours

2075
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:58,719
Speaker 2: is that leftist movements are to have a greater impact

2076
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 2: in the future. He can clude they should strive to

2077
01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:04,599
Speaker 2: reflect the interests of the working classes agitate for material,

2078
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 2: not merely cultural reforms, and focus on what Debor regards

2079
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 2: as a universally invigorating question of economic inequality rather than

2080
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 2: racism and sexism, which he takes to be more divisive.

2081
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:18,519
Speaker 2: Now she takes a little bit of an issue with that,

2082
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 2: But defend your thesis. Then you know, there's we always

2083
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 2: have the war. We've had it here plenty of times

2084
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,760
Speaker 2: on the show. It's not race, it's class, class, not war.

2085
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 2: They're inextricably linked. You're following much harder on the economic question.

2086
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:32,639
Speaker 2: Why is it though that if you do care about

2087
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:35,240
Speaker 2: those interests that were originally express which I totally agree

2088
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 2: that a very small sliver pre riot May twenty twenty

2089
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 2: where something actually might have done, why would that have

2090
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,040
Speaker 2: been a better tack than what ended up happening in

2091
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 2: the first place.

2092
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 12: This is kind of a petty thing that I used

2093
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:48,559
Speaker 12: to do. This was mostly a thing that I would

2094
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 12: do in fights about Bernie versus.

2095
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:51,160
Speaker 7: Hillary in twenty sixteen.

2096
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 12: But I've been doing it for a long time, which

2097
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:56,200
Speaker 12: is when I'm in online you know, ship posting with.

2098
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:58,720
Speaker 7: People and I am in.

2099
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 12: A fight about like sort of a identity politics versus

2100
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:04,599
Speaker 12: class politics, I would copy and paste a quote from

2101
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 12: one of the Black Panthers and just put it out

2102
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:08,720
Speaker 12: as though it was something that I was saying. So,

2103
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 12: for example, Bobby Seal, one of the founders of the

2104
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:14,400
Speaker 12: Black Panthers, said, ours is not a.

2105
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 7: Race struggle, ours is a class struggle.

2106
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 12: Or Fred Hampton is someone who said over and over

2107
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:24,560
Speaker 12: again that you can't beat racism with black capitalism, you

2108
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:27,719
Speaker 12: beat racism with communism. I would just take those quotes

2109
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 12: and I'd throw them out there without attributing them, and

2110
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 12: then people would say, oh, look what.

2111
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 7: A racist you know, a class productionist.

2112
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 12: You are, And then I would reveal that it was

2113
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,760
Speaker 12: Black Panthers who had said those things, because I'm a

2114
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 12: petty person.

2115
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:46,799
Speaker 7: But the point is this stuff is not is written

2116
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 7: into the history of.

2117
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 12: The liberation struggles for people of color, is written into

2118
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:56,719
Speaker 12: the history of feminism. If you go back, for example,

2119
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 12: to the periods of the Suffragettes, it would have been

2120
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,480
Speaker 12: totally are for them to sort of say, well, there's

2121
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 12: six issues, gender issues, and then there's economic issues. Core

2122
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,720
Speaker 12: to their complaints were that those things were intertwined. The

2123
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 12: reason we should appeal the classes because it's just math, right,

2124
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 12: One of the things I've said in the book, which

2125
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 12: some of its critics have ignored, is that, like, look,

2126
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 12: conservatives play identity politics as much as liberals do. If

2127
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 12: you want to sort of attack identity politics in theory,

2128
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:30,680
Speaker 12: you should be attacking Republicans as well as Democrats. The

2129
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 12: problem is is Republicans are in a much better position

2130
01:39:34,479 --> 01:39:38,720
Speaker 12: to do identity politics because identity politics that appeal to

2131
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:42,519
Speaker 12: white people in states that are overrepresented in our system

2132
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,519
Speaker 12: because of the Senate and the electoral College. That's just

2133
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 12: always going to be more powerful politically than it is

2134
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:50,840
Speaker 12: going to be to appeal to black people who are

2135
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 12: in an enclave like Atlanta or DC, to queer people

2136
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 12: who are an enclave like New York and San Francisco.

2137
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 12: Reality is just there's a lot of white people. Seventy

2138
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 12: percent of the electorate is still even though only fifty

2139
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:07,960
Speaker 12: nine percent of the country is white. At this point,

2140
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 12: the electorate is seventy percent white. White people are overrepresented

2141
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:14,040
Speaker 12: because of the Senate and the electoral College.

2142
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 7: You just can't win that way if you keep doing it.

2143
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 12: But what you can do is you can say, hey, look,

2144
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,680
Speaker 12: we have differences of opinion and differences of culture and

2145
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 12: differences that are racial or ethnic or whatever.

2146
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 7: But just about everybody knows.

2147
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 12: What it's like to be really freaked out about how

2148
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:33,840
Speaker 12: they're going to get their rent money this month, right,

2149
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:39,480
Speaker 12: And that potential coalition is just bigger than the coalitions

2150
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 12: that can be built by a bunch of brown graduates

2151
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 12: talking about intersectionality.

2152
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 7: It's just pure political math.

2153
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 12: Class is going to beat identity politics, in part because

2154
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:54,599
Speaker 12: the whole point of elite identity politics is to nominate

2155
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 12: yourself as part of a minority of the enlightened.

2156
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:00,680
Speaker 1: So, Freddy, I want to ask about this because this

2157
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:03,000
Speaker 1: is something that I'm sort of working through in real time.

2158
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 1: So Democratic Party has made you know, the mainstream factions

2159
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party have made it pretty explicit that,

2160
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really care about working class base.

2161
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: They're happy to win if it's with more affluent, like

2162
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:20,400
Speaker 1: college educated liberals. In this past election, you still had

2163
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:23,600
Speaker 1: a majority of lower income people voting for Democrats, but

2164
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 1: this was the most sort of like college educated, affluent

2165
01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:29,920
Speaker 1: coalition they've ever had. But then you have, you know,

2166
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,840
Speaker 1: especially in places like Minnesota and Illinois and Pennsylvania, you

2167
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 1: have governors and legislatures that were elected with this more affluent,

2168
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 1: college educated base that are genuinely doing better things than

2169
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,320
Speaker 1: Democrats were doing during the Clinton era, better things the

2170
01:41:44,360 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 1: Democrats were doing during the Obama era. You know, they're

2171
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:49,839
Speaker 1: actually paying attention to unions, they're actually in Minnesota strengthening

2172
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:50,639
Speaker 1: collective marketing.

2173
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:52,440
Speaker 5: And even with Joe Biden.

2174
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 1: Who have got all kinds of ideological issues with his

2175
01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:57,680
Speaker 1: National Labor Relations Board, has been one of the most

2176
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 1: important institutions for working class people and unions. You know

2177
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:02,960
Speaker 1: that has existed in my lifetime. And you might say

2178
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:05,800
Speaker 1: that's a low bar. It is, but it's still way

2179
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 1: better than what was done under Obama, way better than

2180
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 1: what was done under Clinton, and like the sort of

2181
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 1: uniparty union busting that has been happening for most of

2182
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 1: my lifetime. So how do you square those two things that,

2183
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 1: at the same time that the coalition has gotten more

2184
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 1: highly educated, more affluent, more liberal, more upscale, you actually

2185
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 1: have some better wins for workers, especially if you focus

2186
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: at the state level.

2187
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:31,240
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2188
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,080
Speaker 12: So, I mean, I would never suggest that there's no

2189
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:37,880
Speaker 12: advantage to having the votes of people like me, right,

2190
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:39,559
Speaker 12: I mean, I want to be very clear about this.

2191
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 7: I am a member of the class that I am

2192
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:43,320
Speaker 7: critiquing in this book.

2193
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:47,520
Speaker 12: I lived in Brooklyn for many years, I have a PhD.

2194
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 12: I write for Fancy Duda Publications, et cetera. I'm a

2195
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:55,879
Speaker 12: part of that class, and I'm grateful for their support.

2196
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:58,640
Speaker 12: I would say a few things first, that people like

2197
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 12: that tend to be reliable hit or miss on foreign policy.

2198
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:05,559
Speaker 7: So, for example, it.

2199
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:08,800
Speaker 12: Just simply appears to be no sort of like Park

2200
01:43:08,920 --> 01:43:13,320
Speaker 12: Slope resistance to funding Ukraine for the rest of our lives. Right, Like,

2201
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:17,919
Speaker 12: that's not they don't care about that stuff. It's wonderful

2202
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 12: things that have been happening with these narrow majorities.

2203
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 7: But in the long run, you have to look.

2204
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 12: At the structural state of the Democratic Party, which is

2205
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:26,200
Speaker 12: two things.

2206
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 7: That are very important.

2207
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:32,080
Speaker 12: Number One, college enrollments have finally seriously leveled off after

2208
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:36,280
Speaker 12: growing for more than a half century. Right So, I'm

2209
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 12: not sure if people are aware of this, but there's

2210
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 12: finally been a start of a back toning and maybe

2211
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,320
Speaker 12: even a slight decline in the percentage of young people

2212
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:48,880
Speaker 12: who are heading off to college, probably because their cost

2213
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 12: sensitive and they don't want to graduate with two hundred

2214
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:54,680
Speaker 12: thousand dollars worth of debt and so number one, like

2215
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:58,760
Speaker 12: the primary growth of the Democratic coalition in recent years

2216
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 12: has been this traumatic sort of a shift since the

2217
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 12: turn of the century when college educated people that are

2218
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 12: now heavily Democratic. But the other problem is that, as

2219
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 12: t Erra will tell you, the emergency Democratic majority myth,

2220
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 12: which is that the browning of the United States sometimes

2221
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:22,680
Speaker 12: people call it, right, the increasingly less white in the

2222
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,640
Speaker 12: United States, that was going to create a permanent Democratic majority,

2223
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:29,560
Speaker 12: that has been just proven to be entirely false. Hispanic

2224
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 12: voters have been sprinting in the direction of the GOP,

2225
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 12: and we should have always suspected that that.

2226
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 7: Was going to happen.

2227
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:39,360
Speaker 12: I mean, what you know, you listen to people talked

2228
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:42,360
Speaker 12: about Hispanic Republicans as these race traders or something.

2229
01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:43,320
Speaker 7: You say to them.

2230
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:45,680
Speaker 12: Look, if I say to you that I know a

2231
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:51,000
Speaker 12: guy who lives on the border of Texas who owns

2232
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:54,639
Speaker 12: his own ranch is an NRA member and a devout Catholic,

2233
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 12: you'd say, oh, that's a Republican. The fact that he's

2234
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 12: a Hispanic, that he's Hispanic, doesn't fundamentally change all those

2235
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:07,800
Speaker 12: other signifiers. Right moving forward, if the if the losses from.

2236
01:45:07,880 --> 01:45:10,519
Speaker 7: Non white voters are real, uh.

2237
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 12: And the Hispanic people continue to grow as a portion

2238
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,760
Speaker 12: of the population, while the Black population, which is the

2239
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 12: most reliably democratic block, stays stagnant as it has been

2240
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 12: for a long time.

2241
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 7: The math again just doesn't look good.

2242
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 12: So I'm very I'm very happy with what people are

2243
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:28,919
Speaker 12: doing in these state in these states with these neuro majorities,

2244
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 12: and that's great, and thank you to all the voters

2245
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:35,400
Speaker 12: of you know, like Georgetown or wherever who are sort

2246
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:40,200
Speaker 12: of powering these sort of like white liberal Democrats who

2247
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 12: are very socially left. But the reality is big picture,

2248
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 12: long term, Uh, it doesn't look great for Democrats. And

2249
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:50,439
Speaker 12: this is all happening in a period when there's just

2250
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 12: total incoherence at the top of the Republican Party. You

2251
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:57,000
Speaker 12: can you can imagine if there was an actual competent candidate,

2252
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:00,559
Speaker 12: right someone who knew what they were doing, didn't have

2253
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 12: appear to have a brain injury like Donald Trump, that

2254
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 12: like you know, they could be making incredible inroys right now.

2255
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:07,760
Speaker 7: And I think it's a frightening time.

2256
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:09,880
Speaker 1: So, Freddie, the last question I have for you, which

2257
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:12,720
Speaker 1: is something that's been very inconvenient from my worldview, which

2258
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:16,600
Speaker 1: is not dissimilar from yours about the importance of material politics,

2259
01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:19,599
Speaker 1: about you know, foregrounding class, about the importance of having

2260
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,120
Speaker 1: multi racial coalition if you want to sort of, you know,

2261
01:46:22,200 --> 01:46:25,960
Speaker 1: not only build out political power, but consistently not wins

2262
01:46:26,080 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 1: that are for the working class. One thing that's been

2263
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:32,400
Speaker 1: very inconvenient for me is how powerful abortion politics have

2264
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:35,920
Speaker 1: turned out to be. I mean, post war versus Wade listen,

2265
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:38,799
Speaker 1: Republicans still won the House, but we have to acknowledge

2266
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 1: the red wave certainly did not materialize. Even at a

2267
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 1: time when Americans were saying, my economic situation is absolute shit,

2268
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:47,080
Speaker 1: and I don't trust the Democrats on the economy, et cetera,

2269
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. Abortion was really key in sort of overcoming

2270
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:54,639
Speaker 1: that tie. In the other direction, we've seen in terms

2271
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 1: of special elections this year, Democrats have outperformed by ten

2272
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: points on ava. It's not in like one ininfl related incident,

2273
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 1: but on average in every special election we've had this year.

2274
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:09,280
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not one hundred percent abortion, but

2275
01:47:09,320 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 1: that's a really big part of it. So how does

2276
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:15,719
Speaker 1: that square with your political theory? And I'm partly asking

2277
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 1: this of your selfish way, because I'm trying to figure

2278
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 1: out how it scores my political theories of change as well.

2279
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:22,120
Speaker 5: Well.

2280
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 12: I actually think that that speaks perfectly to sort of

2281
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:26,400
Speaker 12: my overall point here.

2282
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:28,120
Speaker 7: What do we know about abortion?

2283
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:33,240
Speaker 12: It is a cross race, cross class, cross education level,

2284
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:38,640
Speaker 12: cross religion, et cetera issue, right, Abortion is like one

2285
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:42,280
Speaker 12: of the great stealth issues in American politics, which is

2286
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:44,559
Speaker 12: I think part of what happened with the demise of

2287
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:47,400
Speaker 12: Roe Vwaid is there's a lot of women who might

2288
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:51,599
Speaker 12: ostensibly be a pro life who have like a sort

2289
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 12: of intellectualized rejection of abortion, but when they're confronted with

2290
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:58,720
Speaker 12: the possibility of carrying a baby the term that they

2291
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:02,559
Speaker 12: don't want to right, suddenly their self interest activates and

2292
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,320
Speaker 12: they realize I could be put in a position I

2293
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 12: really don't want to be. I think abortion is a

2294
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:10,600
Speaker 12: perfect example of an issue that's incredibly rare, which is

2295
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:14,520
Speaker 12: that it's sailient across all of these divides of ethnicity

2296
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 12: or education level or income, etc. Where every woman is

2297
01:48:19,880 --> 01:48:23,040
Speaker 12: in a state that does not have guaranteed right to

2298
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:26,799
Speaker 12: abortions is at risk of having her life permanently altered

2299
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 12: by a pregnancy that she doesn't want to And so

2300
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:30,800
Speaker 12: that is the kind of appeal that we need to

2301
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:31,519
Speaker 12: make to people.

2302
01:48:31,880 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 7: The problem is is book.

2303
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:35,800
Speaker 12: Of course, we have to fight for trans people, who

2304
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 12: are a population that is incredibly vulnerable and that faces

2305
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,800
Speaker 12: all kinds of discrimination and violence. Of course, we have

2306
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:45,599
Speaker 12: to fight for black people, who are just by every

2307
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 12: statistical measure taking it on the chin, still sixty plus

2308
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:54,000
Speaker 12: years after the major civil rights of victories of the

2309
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:57,400
Speaker 12: last century. But we have to do so in a

2310
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:01,519
Speaker 12: way that demonstrates to people that is in their best

2311
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 12: interest to be part of these coalitions. I try to

2312
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:08,000
Speaker 12: tell people this all the time. I'm a Marxist, and

2313
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:10,160
Speaker 12: they think it's weird when I talk about the politics

2314
01:49:10,200 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 12: of self interest, like only iron Rand ever talked.

2315
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:15,040
Speaker 7: About politics of self interest.

2316
01:49:15,280 --> 01:49:18,519
Speaker 12: In fact, Karl Marx himself said, look, the only way

2317
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:20,920
Speaker 12: you ever move people politically is by appealing to their

2318
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:22,800
Speaker 12: own best interest, and so you need to find a

2319
01:49:22,840 --> 01:49:24,439
Speaker 12: way to loop other people in with that.

2320
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:26,719
Speaker 7: I think we can do that if we say.

2321
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,639
Speaker 12: To people, hey, housing is insanely expensive, childcare and education

2322
01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:31,920
Speaker 12: are insanely expensive.

2323
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:35,400
Speaker 7: Healthcare is insanely expensive. These are structural problems that the

2324
01:49:35,439 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 7: Republicans have no answer for. Let's look for things that

2325
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:40,839
Speaker 7: actually work and can help all of us together.

2326
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,000
Speaker 2: That's a really excellent answer, and this has been a

2327
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:43,839
Speaker 2: really good discussion.

2328
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:44,040
Speaker 3: Guys.

2329
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:45,800
Speaker 2: We're going to have a link to the book down

2330
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:47,720
Speaker 2: in the description. We encourage everybody to go and buy it,

2331
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:49,080
Speaker 2: and we really appreciate your time, sir.

2332
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:49,519
Speaker 3: Thank you.

2333
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:51,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been really enjoying it. Friday, congrats again and

2334
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 1: great to have you.

2335
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:53,599
Speaker 7: Thanks for having.

2336
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:55,360
Speaker 3: Me, Thank you guys for watching. We'll see you tomorrow

2337
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 7: In the s