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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how are

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Speaker 2: you this morning?

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Speaker 3: I'm good, but when the bottom bar comes up, everyone

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Speaker 3: is going to see why. I'm not amazing. Good, but

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Speaker 3: not amazing. Yeah, because we missed one critical thing.

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Speaker 2: We fumbled the bar the ball here on the A block.

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Speaker 2: Otherwise it was a full M show in honor of M.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I didn't do that on purpose, but I spent all

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Speaker 3: day yesterday trying to make sure we can have an

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Speaker 3: M title for every show because at a certain point

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Speaker 3: it just and I was like well we have to

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Speaker 3: do this now.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but Chris, I screwed it up because I did

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Speaker 5: the FED block.

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Speaker 4: So sorry, I'm still blaming Jerome Powell.

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Speaker 5: It's still his fault.

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Speaker 3: He didn't have to speak yesterday. You could have called

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Speaker 3: it money. It's your fault too.

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Speaker 5: And you know what else, you know what else?

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Speaker 2: We added a story to the show and it's a

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Speaker 2: story about Maha.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. It's just the level of consistency across

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Speaker 3: the board. This was meant to be yesterday.

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Speaker 5: The stars were aligned.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so everyone enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: And there's some stuff going on in Maha that we

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Speaker 2: are only beginning to scrite the surface of. Trump's original

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Speaker 2: surgeon general pick was pulled after Laura Lumer and others

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Speaker 2: I guess criticized her. And the new person who he

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Speaker 2: has picked is Casey Means whose brother CALLI means. The

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Speaker 2: two of them have become very like prominent on Tucker

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Speaker 2: and Joe Rogan whatever. I as an outsider, we're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: the Laura Lumer is probably gonna be happy like Nicole Shanhan.

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Speaker 2: All these people probably be happy, right right, Yes, No,

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Speaker 2: they're going after her. So there's Nicole Shanahan is out

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Speaker 2: being like RFK Junior may have lied to me directly

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Speaker 2: because he promised me that neither of these siblings would

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Speaker 2: be involved in the administration. So anyway, we're going to

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Speaker 2: dig into that one. That's a really interesting one.

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Speaker 3: It's so messy and we have to try to get

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Speaker 3: closer to the truth on this one. There's all kinds

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Speaker 3: of rumors flying around. Yeah, so we'll bring you all

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Speaker 3: of that, of course after we do the black that

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to call money, but Crystal called Fed. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Jay Powell spoke yesterday, So lots of updates to talk

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Speaker 3: about from the Fed and on the economy more generally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're supposed to get some sort of a UK

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Speaker 2: trade deal announcement this morning, so we'll see what that entails.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's an actual deal, more likely it's like the

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Speaker 2: outlines of a plan to effectuate a deal down line

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Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, it's a plan, it's the what

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Speaker 2: a concepts of So yeah, that's right. We also have

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Speaker 2: some very significant news with the arts to the lease.

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Speaker 2: Trump making some pretty wild comments about the Houthis that

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Speaker 2: we had to get into the show. But more significantly,

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Speaker 2: they are the US and Israel are talking about now

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Speaker 2: a US led administration Gaza, US led administration of Gaza.

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Speaker 2: They're modeling it on the Iraq US led government.

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Speaker 5: As if that's a model I still follow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, wild, nothing but success.

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Speaker 5: Wild, So get into that.

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Speaker 2: Also, Republicans are making more clear what sort of cuts

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Speaker 2: to medicaid. David Day and actually got the scoop on

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Speaker 2: what they're looking at. Specifically with regard to cuts to medicaid,

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Speaker 2: they are significant. Any one of the options would entail

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Speaker 2: millions of Americans getting kicked off of that program. So

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Speaker 2: obviously we're going to dig into the details there. We

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Speaker 2: have some updates with regard to migrants and where they're

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Speaker 2: being sent. Mark or Rubio had said, Hey, we're looking

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Speaker 2: beyond El Salvador. There are other countries that we're going

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Speaker 2: to try to deport people into, potentially prison systems and

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Speaker 2: other nations. New York Times had that report that we

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Speaker 2: talked about yesterday with regard to Hey, it looks like

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Speaker 2: they're moving forward with Libya.

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Speaker 5: This became quite urgent.

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Speaker 2: There was a flight that was scheduled, lawyers got involved,

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Speaker 2: they went to a judge. A judge has now blocked

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Speaker 2: any migrants from potentially being sent to Libya, but Libya's

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Speaker 2: toward is like divide it between two different governments. Both

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Speaker 2: of those governments said, hey, we have nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with this, We would not accept these migrants. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot that is sort of mysterious and interesting

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Speaker 2: going on there as well. And then we wanted to

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Speaker 2: take a look at these several developments with regard to

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Speaker 2: Trump and his meme coin. First of all, it appears

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Speaker 2: that it is largely foreigners who are pumping big buck

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Speaker 2: bucks into Trump's meme coin, raising even graver concerns about

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Speaker 2: levels of corruption there. There are some legislation that is

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Speaker 2: moving as well. And then also on the topic of corruption,

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Speaker 2: apparently one of the things that countries are being pressured

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Speaker 2: to do in order to get on the US as

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Speaker 2: good side is to adopt starlink, so and that's being

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Speaker 2: used in part of the trade negotiations. Jeff Stein's did

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Speaker 2: a fantastic report over the Washington Post. Finally, however, Emily's

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Speaker 2: got a big scoop you want to break down, give

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Speaker 2: us the top line of what you're looking at.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Breaking Points obtained a document from inside punch

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Speaker 3: Bowl News and we have basically we're ready to reveal

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Speaker 3: their entire business plan because for partnerships in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: That's the document that we got our hands on and

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Speaker 3: got some comments from the White House because you may remember,

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Speaker 3: just a couple of months ago there was a big

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Speaker 3: controversy over the government getting premium subscriptions to Politico. So

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Speaker 3: in light of what we have in this document that

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Speaker 3: Breaking Points got its hands on, we heard back from

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Speaker 3: the White House about Punchbowl subscriptions. So basically what we're

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Speaker 3: going to be looking at here is the Chrysliba called

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Speaker 3: soft corruption. It's just so it's just corruption, plain and simple,

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Speaker 3: but it's so banal and mundane here that nobody even blinks, yeah,

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Speaker 3: thinks twice about it.

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Speaker 4: But it is so so gross.

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Speaker 3: And we have some great excerpts pictures from this document

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Speaker 3: that we obtained that I think as well worth taking

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Speaker 3: a look up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the documents are not indicative of punch Bowl being

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Speaker 2: particularly unique in terms of the DC ecosystem. They just

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Speaker 2: simply expose how banal and how commonplace these relationships are,

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Speaker 2: and you know how much money is at stake as well.

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Speaker 4: It really is.

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Speaker 2: It's a fascinating look inside the beltwet meeting, specifically the

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Speaker 2: world of these sort of niche newsletters which are just

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Speaker 2: printing money because they're not that expensive to put together.

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Speaker 2: But the whole business model is, hey, if you can

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Speaker 2: tell advertisers, you know, my my tip sheet is read

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Speaker 2: by Mike Johnson, my tip sheets read by John Thune,

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Speaker 2: my chip tip sheets read by Chuck Schumer, then advertisers

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Speaker 2: will pony up big bucks to get their messages just

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Speaker 2: in front of those basically handful of people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in this case, Google gold min Sacks and just

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Speaker 3: our last teaser here, So you stick around for the block.

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Speaker 4: We have the actual price.

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Speaker 3: First of all, we have their email open rates, we

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Speaker 3: have their subscriber numbers, at least the ones that they

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Speaker 3: send the corporate partners or prospective corporate partners. But then

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Speaker 3: we also have the pricing levels that they offer newsletter

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Speaker 3: sponsorships for. And that's what you're really going to want

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Speaker 3: to stick around for because it will make your eyes

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Speaker 3: pop out of your skull. So make sure to stay

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Speaker 3: tuned that block.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: All right, with all that being said, let's turn to

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Speaker 2: the economic news. This broke yesterday evening and could put

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Speaker 2: this up on the screen. So Trump expected to announce

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Speaker 2: some sort of trade quote unquote agreement with the UK.

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Speaker 2: Most of the experts are sayings probably isn't going to

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Speaker 2: be a finalized agreement because it will be more like

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Speaker 2: a framework including issues that they intend to resolve, but

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Speaker 2: we don't know the specifics at this point. Trump said

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Speaker 2: that he is going to make this announcement in the

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Speaker 2: White House at ten am. He put out a tweet

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Speaker 2: truth social it was big news conference from orow morning

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Speaker 2: ten am Oval Office concerning a major trade deal with

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Speaker 2: representatives of a big and highly respected country, the first

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Speaker 2: of many, Trump wrote, and this is of course the

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Speaker 2: first of the many trade deals that they were allegedly negotiating,

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Speaker 2: ninety deals in ninety days so far. We're now maybe

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Speaker 2: the outlines of one is what we're looking at. There's

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Speaker 2: a lots that's interesting about this. Obviously, they've been under

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Speaker 2: a lot of pressure Emily to be able to show something,

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Speaker 2: and the world has been pretty resistant to what they

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Speaker 2: see as you know, US bullying. Even close allies like

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Speaker 2: Japan have really taken the side of we are not

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Speaker 2: going to be bullied into some sort of a deal.

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Speaker 2: You know, much of the world has made some overtures

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Speaker 2: to China, and the whole idea here was, oh, we're

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Speaker 2: going to try to isolate and encircled China. That has

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Speaker 2: not worked out either. The UK is interesting because here Starmer,

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Speaker 2: the leader there, is really unpopular. You know, he's just

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Speaker 2: elected Prime minister not that long ago. His approval is

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Speaker 2: dramatically underwater. People are not happy with him, they're not

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Speaker 2: happy with the economic situation there. And whereas a lot

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Speaker 2: of liberals and you know, liberals in Canada, liberals in

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Speaker 2: Australia have actually really bullyed their standing by opposing Trump,

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Speaker 2: Starmer has taken the opposite path. He has really made

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Speaker 2: a lot of overtures to Trump and has been you know,

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Speaker 2: aggressively courting him and trying to work out the steal,

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Speaker 2: thinking that if he can blunt some of the impact

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Speaker 2: of tariffs on the UK, that would benefit his country

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Speaker 2: and benefit his political standing. So that is the bet

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Speaker 2: that he has placed in that sort of the context

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Speaker 2: within which this framework agreement, whatever this is, is being negotiated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you said, we don't know much yet,

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Speaker 3: but I think your Starmer is in the now Mark

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Speaker 3: Carney category as well, where they're recognizing that the economic

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Speaker 3: benefits they can get their own people, because the disadvantages

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Speaker 3: the costs of this are going to are likely going

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Speaker 3: to be if they don't handle it diplomatically and in

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Speaker 3: a way that pleases Donald Trump. Where where they're at

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Speaker 3: least able to make a deal with Donald Trump, then

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Speaker 3: the costs of their country are going to be way

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Speaker 3: greater than the benefits of sort of making a kind

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Speaker 3: of stand against Donald Trump. And that's not to say

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Speaker 3: Mark Karney actually managed rather cleverly to do both, to

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Speaker 3: be really you know, sort of diplomatic to Trump and

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Speaker 3: to butter them up while also putting his foot down

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Speaker 3: and saying can it will never be for sale? Starmer,

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Speaker 3: You've got to carve out for high end British cars

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Speaker 3: according to political at least so that you know you

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Speaker 3: had Aston Martin Bentley looking at really disastrous consequences of

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Speaker 3: the twenty five percent tariffs. So yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 3: the right bet if you're a cure Starmer, who again

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Speaker 3: is not particularly popular. But maybe this is a way

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Speaker 3: for him to turn a new leaf.

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Speaker 4: In the UK. I sort of doubt it.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he necessarily will be able to do that,

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Speaker 3: but it's probably better than him doing nothing. Or making

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Speaker 3: some type of like petulant virtue signal stand while people

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Speaker 3: end up not getting any benefits.

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Speaker 4: To the economy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll see how the politics play out.

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Speaker 2: Because Donald Trump's not popular in you know, certainly among

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Speaker 2: cure Starmer's based in the UK, and as I was

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Speaker 2: saying before, you know, Mark Carney, the reason he was

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Speaker 2: able to win was by positioning himself as an oppositional

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Speaker 2: figure to Trump and someone who would be a steady hand.

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Speaker 2: When we talked to David Dole about how, you know,

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Speaker 2: how people saw that him. It wasn't that he was

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Speaker 2: elected with this you need to aggressively stand out to Trump,

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Speaker 2: but it was more we feel you're a steady hand

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Speaker 2: who's going to have our interest and not going to

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Speaker 2: cowtow to him Starmar. Potentially because of the way that

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Speaker 2: he has, uh, you know, tried to maintain diplomatic relations

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Speaker 2: with Trump and gone out of his way to do such,

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Speaker 2: the UK has avoided some of the criticism that has

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Speaker 2: been leveled at other European countries. You know, Vance Jade

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Speaker 2: Vance famously you know, went and was really aggressively chiding

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Speaker 2: them about their free speech et cetera. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: they've sort of avoided and certainly they hadn't been subject

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Speaker 2: to like the fifty first state smears that Canada was

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Speaker 2: very very upset about and continues to be very upset about.

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Speaker 2: So I think maybe some of the the fact that

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Speaker 2: Trump has not rhetorically gone after them is also probably

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Speaker 2: because of star War's efforts behind the scenes to kind

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Speaker 2: of butter him up. But on the other hand, they

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Speaker 2: still were hit with the same ten percent tariffs and

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Speaker 2: other you know, higher tarfs some things like steel that

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world was as well, so those

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Speaker 2: efforts were not really rewarded in real time. We'll see

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Speaker 2: what comes out, what the specifics are with regard to

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Speaker 2: this particular deal.

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Speaker 3: Trump needs us for the markets too, because everyone's waiting

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Speaker 3: for deals. It's not just about the one deal. It's

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Speaker 3: about the one deal showing that there are actual deals coming,

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Speaker 3: and that is obviously yet to be seen.

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Speaker 4: So we will pay attention to that. But Crystal J.

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Speaker 3: Powell, speaking of the markets, Jay Powell popped out yesterday

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Speaker 3: and made his announcement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, so holding interest rates steady and sounding

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Speaker 2: some very significant warnings about where he thinks the economy

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Speaker 2: is and where it is heading.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 6: If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced

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Speaker 6: or are sustained, they're likely to generate a rise in inflation,

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Speaker 6: a slow down in economic growth, and an increase in unemployment.

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Speaker 6: The effects on inflation could be short lived, reflecting a

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Speaker 6: one time shift in the price level. Is also possible

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Speaker 6: that the inflationary effects could instead be more persistent, avoiding

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Speaker 6: that outcome will depend on the size of the terariff effect.

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Speaker 5: Tariff effects, on.

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Speaker 6: How long it takes for them to pass through fully

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Speaker 6: into prices, and ultimately on keeping the longer term inflation

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Speaker 6: expectations well anchored.

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Speaker 2: So you know, Fed chairs, theyre always try to be

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Speaker 2: very neutral and mild mannered in their comments, but he's

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Speaker 2: sounding a warning about the tariffs, and the tariff position

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Speaker 2: has really put the FED in a tough bind because

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Speaker 2: on the one hand, you see slowing economic growth that's

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Speaker 2: always saw with the GDP numbers and some other indicators

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Speaker 2: that would push you in the direction of let's lower

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Speaker 2: interest rates. However, you also see rising inflation that would

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Speaker 2: push you in the direction of let's lift interest rates

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Speaker 2: to try to keep inflation under control. And so That's

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Speaker 2: why stagflation is so difficult to deal with where you

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Speaker 2: have low, low or no growth and you have inflation,

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Speaker 2: because you have to use some tools outside of the

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Speaker 2: fed's toolkit in order to deal with both of those problems,

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Speaker 2: because the tools that the FED would use go, you know,

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Speaker 2: in opposite directions with regards to those two things.

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Speaker 5: So he's in a bind.

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Speaker 2: So he's basically saying, hey, we're holding where we are

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Speaker 2: until you know, we until we see what's going on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this wasn't surprising at all. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of exactly what everyone was expecting to see from J.

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Speaker 4: Powell, though you never totally know.

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Speaker 3: But this muscle is connected to the black we're going

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Speaker 3: to do un Medicaid because a lot of the economy

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Speaker 3: right now is going to hinge on Donald Trup's ability

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Speaker 3: to pass this big tax cut bill, and his ability

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Speaker 3: to pass that big tax cut bill is going to

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Speaker 3: depend on his ability to actually make enough cuts without

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Speaker 3: going into the political weeds of cutting Medicaid in any

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Speaker 3: way whatsoever, which, as Steeve Bannon will tell him, a

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Speaker 3: lot of magas are on Medicaid. So uncertainty I think

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Speaker 3: coming from all of that, as well, because he wants

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Speaker 3: that tax cut bill to also have industrial policy for reshoring,

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Speaker 3: and if that doesn't get passed, that's a huge, huge

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Speaker 3: setback for I mean, they see this as was described

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Speaker 3: recently as there are two barrels to the gun, and

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Speaker 3: one of.

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Speaker 4: The barrels is the trade war, the tariffs.

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Speaker 3: The other barrel is the tax cuts, and if you

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Speaker 3: can't if you can't have that, that's a big problem.

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Speaker 5: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an important note there for sure, Scott Bessant.

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Speaker 2: Part of maybe potentially why they're anxious to announce this

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Speaker 2: UK trade deal is we talked yesterday about how they said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're going to meet with Chinese negotiators with regards to trade,

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Speaker 2: and we all just happen to be in what Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: We just happened to be there.

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Speaker 5: So we're going to get together with them.

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Speaker 2: The Chinese, by the way, are saying the US were

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Speaker 2: the ones that requested the meeting, which is an interesting

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Speaker 2: note as well. Scott Bessant thought yesterday really downplaying expectations

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Speaker 2: for what could come out of these talks.

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Speaker 5: Markets really took notice of this as well. Let's take

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Speaker 5: a listen.

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Speaker 7: On Saturday and Sunday, we will agree what we're going

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Speaker 7: to talk about. My sense is that this will be

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Speaker 7: about de escalation, not about the big trade deal. But

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Speaker 7: we've got to de escalate before we can move forward.

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Speaker 8: Well, they said that they would not talk unless the

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Speaker 8: reciprocal trade tariff of one hundred and forty five percent

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Speaker 8: was removed. Would it be likely that you would be

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Speaker 8: able to go back to the President and say, to

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Speaker 8: show good faith, we could drop this down in the

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Speaker 8: interim to fifty percent.

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Speaker 7: Could that be in the cards, Laura, I'm not going

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Speaker 7: to negotiate. You're on TV, You're one of the most

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Speaker 7: popular the anchors in the world, So I'm not going

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Speaker 7: to give away our strategy. And look, everything's on the table.

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Speaker 7: It's up to the president at the end of the day.

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Speaker 7: The President has said that he's happy just to give

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Speaker 7: all countries a number if the negotiations don't go well,

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Speaker 7: and that's what we're doing with the other seventeen important

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Speaker 7: training partners is look, you can negotiate good faith that

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Speaker 7: you can come with your a game or President Trump

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Speaker 7: is happy to ratchet the number back up to your

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Speaker 7: April second number.

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Speaker 2: So you know, seems like those talks are very preliminary,

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Speaker 2: long way from any sort of a deal actually being

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Speaker 2: struck with China, of course, that is the really main

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Speaker 2: focus in China. Of course, subject to those one hundred

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Speaker 2: and forty five percent taros effectively.

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Speaker 5: Cuts off trade with China.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm sure there is going to be some because

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Speaker 2: the terraffs and other nations are much lower ten percent.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's going to be some of China shipping

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Speaker 2: to other places that ship here. They call it trans shipping,

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Speaker 2: they call that. Yeah, and that was already being done

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure that will only expand to try to

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Speaker 2: fill the gap of trade that is just being completely

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Speaker 2: blocked from China. But it's still going to have quite

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Speaker 2: a significant impact.

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Speaker 3: Well, which is why if they're still doing trade deals

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Speaker 3: with every country that was hit by the reciprocals, that

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Speaker 3: means they're going to have to do deals with places

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Speaker 3: like Cambodia, Vietnam and some of those places where things

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Speaker 3: are being shipped.

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Speaker 4: First from China and then into the United States.

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Speaker 3: So the level of unpredictability here, I mean, I know

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Speaker 3: things feel like since what was Liberation Day, April second,

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Speaker 3: it's been more than a month now, we've sort of

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Speaker 3: slipped into some sense of normalcy, and it's we're almost

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Speaker 3: numb to what we're in right now because everything changed

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Speaker 3: so quickly. But the level of uncertainty in the economy

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Speaker 3: is hard to even capture with words.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's or not on the woods, that's

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Speaker 4: for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, there have been concerns about looming shortages,

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Speaker 2: retailers sounding the alarm about that. You know, we played

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Speaker 2: the director of the LA Port or executive director of

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Speaker 2: the LA Port, whatever his title is, saying basically, it's

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Speaker 2: already way down. You know, the shipments are receiving from China.

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Speaker 2: We expect it to be much worse. I saw indications

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Speaker 2: yesterday that, you know, there's vastly diminished activity at some

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Speaker 2: of the major ports in the country. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the White House is saying basically like yeah, they're just

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Speaker 2: crying wolf. Everything's fine. There's been no shortages yet. Let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and take a listen to Hassett talking about that.

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Speaker 9: Well, the scare mondering is happening now. But I can

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Speaker 9: tell you that I get real time data every day

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Speaker 9: on whether there are shortages, and I can report that

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Speaker 9: there are still plenty of things on the shelves. There

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Speaker 9: were a couple of weeks where shipping from China was lower,

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Speaker 9: but now shipping from a lot of other countries is

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Speaker 9: going way, way up. So people don't have to be

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Speaker 9: worried about what the scare mongderers are saying. These policies

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Speaker 9: are on shoring jobs, on shoring production. You could see

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Speaker 9: it in the job s data. You could see it

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Speaker 9: in the explosion of manufacturing jobs already even before the

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Speaker 9: tariffs came in. The way to think about it for me, Laura,

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Speaker 9: is that President Trump did something last time, looked and

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Speaker 9: saw that it really work, and now he's doing more

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Speaker 9: of it, a little bit bigger. But that's what you

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Speaker 9: should do. You should do something, see if it works

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Speaker 9: or not, and then change. And that's what he's doing.

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Speaker 9: He's ramping up the ante because he saw that it worked.

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Speaker 3: In the past.

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Speaker 2: So the question is whether this situation is able to persist.

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Speaker 2: It's also funny, I mean what he's saying there, Well,

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Speaker 2: trade with China's downshore, but trade with these other countries

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Speaker 2: is up. It's because of what we were exactly talking about.

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Speaker 2: The goods are being shipped from China to these other

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Speaker 2: countries and then here to get around the extreme tariffs

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Speaker 2: that are put in place with regard to China, and

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Speaker 2: we'll see because you know, it takes roughly a month

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Speaker 2: or more to ship goods from China to our ports.

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Speaker 2: LA I think is one of the places that goods

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Speaker 2: can move most quickly too, And we're right in that

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Speaker 2: timeframe of when we'll see what the impact is.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: A lot of companies did stock up in anticipation. That

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Speaker 2: was part of what played into the GDP numbers in

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Speaker 2: the first quarter. A lot of companies knew that something

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Speaker 2: was going to happen, and so they aggressively imported what

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Speaker 2: they needed to import so that they could have a

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Speaker 2: sort of backlog and storage to be able to weather

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Speaker 2: the store. So that will help to buffer especially large

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Speaker 2: companies that were able to do that and to get ahead.

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Speaker 2: I think the first place we're going to really see

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Speaker 2: impact and fallout is among those small and medium businesses

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Speaker 2: that just do not have the size, scale or cushion

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Speaker 2: in order to maneuver around these terraffs or in order

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Speaker 2: to really prepare fully prepare and soften the blow from

440
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: the impact.

441
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, Chris. So also this tear sheet, this Ford

442
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 4: tear sheet. If we put this on the screen. A three.

443
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: This is import because we had that clip yesterday of

444
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 3: Mark Pocan going after Scott Bestn't asking who pays tariffs? Yeah,

445
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 3: and Scott Bestnant was really insistent about not answering that question.

446
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 4: He was trying all kinds of clever ways to get

447
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 4: around that question.

448
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 3: The CNN headline is Ford will raise the sticker price

449
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 3: on cars imported from Mexico. It just said it didn't

450
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: expect significant US price hikes. There you go, that's evidence

451
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 3: right there to the point Kevin Hassett was just making

452
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 3: let you see something, you try it, you see what happens,

453
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 3: and then maybe you pivot.

454
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

455
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 2: Well, Ford says they're going to hike the sticker price

456
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: for three US models that they import from Mexico by

457
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: about two thousand dollars each. So I would say that's significant.

458
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 2: That was only days after executives were like, I think

459
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: it'll be fine, and they had, you know, I think,

460
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: in an attempt to curry favor with Trump, had said

461
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 2: they were going to hold the line with regard to

462
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 2: sticker prices on vehicles, and now here we are a

463
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: short time later of them being like, oh, actually we

464
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: can't hold the line at least on these three models,

465
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 2: we're going to up.

466
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 5: The price by two thousand dollars.

467
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 2: And that is another question too, is we saw this

468
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: during the post COVID inflationary period. Is there were genuine

469
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: inflation pressures, and they were also companies that were like, oh,

470
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 2: people think there's inflation, I can raise my prices.

471
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 5: I'm going to raise my prices.

472
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 2: And by the way, when the put costs for those

473
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 2: companies went down, did they bring the prices back down?

474
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 5: Of course not, of course not.

475
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: And I actually saw that there's industry jargon for these

476
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 2: types of practices.

477
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 5: It's called taking price.

478
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: So it's such a common practice that they actually have

479
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: like industry jargon for what it means. It makes sense,

480
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 2: of course, if you're a capitalist and you see you

481
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: can get away with raising your prices, You're going to

482
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 2: raise your price. So that's how you can also feed

483
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: an inflationary spiral, even above and beyond the direct impact

484
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 2: of the terraffs, which is also quite significant.

485
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, this is where it obviously should

486
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: factor into the Trump administration's decision making process.

487
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 4: I think it's unfair to let some of these corporations

488
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 4: off the hook.

489
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 3: Not that we do, but it's such a small part

490
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: of the media conversation here is like they take the

491
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: economic procarity that everybody is living in and just squeeze

492
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: every little drop out they can, and disproportionately end up

493
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 3: sending that money continually to executives away from workers. They

494
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: increase prices for customers, they pay themselves more and more,

495
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: they do buybacks, and that's why. Actually, an interesting industrial

496
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: policy in the tax bill would have been something like

497
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 3: the millionaire a tax that Trump was talking about to

498
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 3: pay for some of the cuts. That seems like it's

499
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: off the table now, but there are all kinds of

500
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: other things.

501
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 4: That you could do.

502
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 3: It's not really I guess I shouldn't call it industrial possible.

503
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: There are all kinds of things that you could do

504
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: to make this trade war actually help workers and customers

505
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 3: and pass those costs off in different ways, And there's

506
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 3: not a ton of conversation happening about what could be

507
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: done creatively in that big, beautiful reconciliation package Trump is

508
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: hotly anticipating. But it seems to me like that would

509
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 3: be a missed opportunity.

510
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, there's no doubt about it, And I mean

511
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: with regard to the corporations doing what corporations do. I mean,

512
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: I obviously we're going to call them out here, but

513
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 2: also you know, it would be like expecting to a

514
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 2: snake not.

515
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 5: To buy you liked And so that's why you need.

516
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: Government policybers to protect workers, to protect consumers, and to

517
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: understand the dynamics and incentives that you're creating and so

518
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: what you're likely to have. Also as a situation where

519
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: if you are a large player in particular, and your

520
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: competitor is suffering more from the terrorists and the import

521
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: taxes for whatever they import more from China, etc.

522
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 5: You have two choices.

523
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: You could hold your prices steady and then you undercut

524
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: them and then you steal their business.

525
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 5: That's going to work out well for you.

526
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: Or you could take price and also up your prices

527
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: to match them, knowing that you can get away with

528
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: it because they had to increase their prices. So there

529
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: are a lot of dynamics here, and we have actually

530
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: a lot of David Dan's reporting in the show, but

531
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: he's been pointing out the way that this policy also

532
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: really benefits the large players, and there's a lot of

533
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: reasons for that, and one of them is also just

534
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 2: the fact that if you are Apple, if you are Forward,

535
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: if you are Walmart, you are Costco, you can get

536
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: those meetings with the Trump administration, you can argue your case,

537
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: you can maybe get your car dound, you can get

538
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: what you need to be able to survive. And if

539
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 2: you are one of the smaller players, you are not

540
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: going to be able to have that opportunity.

541
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 5: Whatsoever.

542
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: There's one more piece of market news we wanted to

543
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 2: bring you that is kind of unrelated to the terrorists,

544
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 2: but also really significant to put this up on the

545
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: screen while I was keeping our eye on what the

546
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: impacts of AI are going to be. Wild story yesterday

547
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: about the rampant use of chat epute whatever cheating in

548
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: college we could have.

549
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 5: We'll do that conversation another day.

550
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: But in any case, Apple stock price significantly fell after

551
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: they are a top executive there said that it is

552
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,239
Speaker 2: considering injecting Safari with AI, and the big news here

553
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: injecting I know, I'm going to.

554
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 4: Vaccimate it with a vaccinate in the ai Jab.

555
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: In any case, one of the big notable comments that

556
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: was made here is that for the first time ever,

557
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: Google searches are going down. These people are using, they're

558
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: asking CROC, chat GPT, They're not going to Google, And

559
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: I mean I can attest to that it is like

560
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: better at Google effectively that.

561
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 4: When you're using AI, you and Sager obsessed with AI.

562
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 4: With the I feel like Kyle uses a lot too,

563
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 4: but like chat GPT.

564
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 2: Kyle loves making images with Groc, loves who among us

565
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: sends hours over there, just like what if I did this? Yeah,

566
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: it's really up to some young thumbnail game.

567
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 4: I have to say, I mean, what can't Groc do?

568
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 4: But seriously, this story is incredible.

569
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: And Stoller was monitoring Google stock price yesterday and he

570
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: had a great post on big his substock, which is

571
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: a great subscribe about how basically the markets were saying

572
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: this is his headline, Wall Street tells Google to break

573
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 3: itself up because the markets were reacting to this information

574
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: as it was being And he had an interesting point too,

575
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 3: which is that as the day went on, you could

576
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: see people kind of grappling, investors grappling with what it

577
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: meant because it was a stiff plummet at first and

578
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: then went up a little bit, but it stayed really low. Huge,

579
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: huge problem obviously for Google, and they're about to be

580
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: broken up. And it looks like they're about to be

581
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 3: broken up in a couple of different directions. Yeah, so

582
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: huge news for like our tech stocks in general. And

583
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: it came out as this came out as part of

584
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: the testimony in the Google antitrust trial.

585
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 4: Is that crazy? I mean just.

586
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: This is like the wildest way for Google to have

587
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: their stock prices crater, as a stolar put it. And

588
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: last though, Crystal, Apple and Ford remind me of something

589
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: we covered this about a month ago when the Ford

590
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 3: CEO around Liberation Day did an interview talking about how

591
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: they suddenly realized none of their parts for any of

592
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: their cars were like made in the United States at all,

593
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 3: Like they had to get from so many different places.

594
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: They made assemble them in the United States, but they're

595
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: sourced from everywhere. And it would be hard to use

596
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 3: a similar problem with Apple, and these guys now find

597
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: themselves in these companies. It might not be his fault,

598
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: it might not be Tim Cook's fault, but this we

599
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: rely on iPhones and we rely on forward cars.

600
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: At least I do.

601
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: It's like, it's not just I'm not saying that Trump

602
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 3: administration solution has been executed well, because it hasn't been.

603
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: But they also hold the economy hostage to their shitty business.

604
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 4: Models, and it's like the same thing.

605
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 3: Actually, I think it's the same thing with Google here too,

606
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: and we're all held hostage to their complete monopoly that

607
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: you know, you see their stock tanking when something obvious

608
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: happens and it's like, are they prepared for that?

609
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 4: What does that mean for Google? I don't know, but

610
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 4: Stolar makes a good point.

611
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: He compares it to Standard Oil, compares Google potentially standard Oil,

612
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: which created when it was broken up, all of these

613
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: more efficient, broken up companies in its place, And so

614
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: this actually might a really positive piece of news, although

615
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: it would be quite a transition period for the US

616
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: economy and certainly for Google.

617
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean with regard to AI, there's there's a

618
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: lot to say there. But I feel like if we

619
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: had a functioning society, we would have a really aggressive

620
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: national debate about how far we want to go with

621
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: this and how much we want to limit it. And

622
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: I was thinking about I'm old enough so that I

623
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: when I first started driving, you could print ount the

624
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: map quest oh directions, right, but I still had to

625
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: occasionally you screw up the map quest directions.

626
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 4: It was bad to go to the map. Oh, it

627
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 4: was bad.

628
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: You got to open up the map, You got to

629
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: figure out where the hell am I. You got to

630
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: stop at the gas station ask the guy like how

631
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: do I get to this place?

632
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 5: At that place? And yeah, it was it was rough.

633
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: I much prefer being able to navigate and to just

634
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: have the phone and be like, Okay, you screwed up,

635
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: here's another route whatever. But I will tell you I

636
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: was a lot better at knowing how to get places.

637
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: Oh, this is a thing.

638
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 2: Everybody who has had both excret knows. Is the thing

639
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: like I have to use GPS to get to places

640
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: that I've been, you know a lot of times, Whereas

641
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: at that time when you had to actually think and

642
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: use your brain and engage, you were able to navigate places.

643
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: And I feel like with AI you can kind of

644
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: extrapolate that to your entire brain.

645
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, there's research on this, and Nicholas car started

646
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: writing on this when was the Shallows was like twenty eleven.

647
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 5: That's right.

648
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And actually there's a decent bit of research about

649
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: how your brain atrophies in different ways when you start

650
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: outsourcing critical parts of it to computers. It's not to

651
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: say that we should never allow anyone to touch a calculator.

652
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 4: Obviously I don't agree with that.

653
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: But there's so much that we're going to lose so

654
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: quickly and not even have a baseline. You know, there

655
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: are people who don't remember map quests, don't know map

656
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: quests that are very much alive, like your kids.

657
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: Probably you have no idea what it is, like, what

658
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: what the hell is not what you printed something out?

659
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 5: Like what he's talking about.

660
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: It just gives me so much PTSD about like coming

661
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: late to soccer games because the map quest was hard

662
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: to get to the But in all seriousness, like this

663
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: is a real problem. But thankfully we have a surgeon

664
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: general who will be on top of it.

665
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we thinking all these things through very deeply.

666
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: With her lack of a medical license, all right, we'll get.

667
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 5: To that later. That's a deep teas they're coming to.

668
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 4: You know what on the road, Biden certain general was

669
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 4: excellent on that. It was really good on this.

670
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: You know what, You're right about that, and you're right

671
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: about that. He was very thoughtful. You put out a warning.

672
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: He basically said that social media uses should be treated

673
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: like tobacco, alcohol, like that kind of seriousness, and we're like, okay, anyway.

674
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: Thanks Ivbolt, kiddo, mail it in for a little while.

675
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 5: I would be quiet, good luck, You'll be fine.

676
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: All right, Let's go ahead and get to some very

677
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: serious topics. But starting with you know, we were talking

678
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: yesterday about how Trump has basically taken the Houthis up

679
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: on their deal to they to back up for a second. Okay,

680
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: Houthis have been doing their their operations in response to

681
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: the Israeli genocide in Gasa. During the ceasefire, the brief

682
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: Gaza ceasefire, they stopped all that. When the ceasefire ended,

683
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: they resumed activities, but just visa v Israel, they were

684
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: not bombing or bothering US ships. We started bombing them

685
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: aggressively and killing a lot of civilians and signal gate

686
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: and all of that sort of stuff they have long said,

687
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: And a drop side interview to Ryan and Jeremy's credit

688
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: actually interviewed who if you leadership who said, listen, we've

689
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: always said, if you don't.

690
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 5: Bomb us, we won't bomb you.

691
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: So apparently Trump decided to take them up on that

692
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: deal and decided to stop bombing them, and in response,

693
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: they are not supposed to bomb us either, even as

694
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: they continue their hostilities visa the Israel. So Trump gets

695
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: asked about this yesterday and has just about the most

696
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: Trumpian answer of old time.

697
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 5: So let's go ahead and take a list of that.

698
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 10: But so we do we take their word for it.

699
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 10: It was, you know, we hit them very hard. They

700
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 10: had a great capacity to withstand punishment. They took tremendous punishment,

701
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 10: and you know, you could say there's a lot of

702
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 10: bravery there that it was amazing what they took. But

703
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 10: we honor their commitment, and they were they gave us

704
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 10: their word that they wouldn't be shooting ships anymore, and

705
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 10: we honor that.

706
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 4: We honored the brave, very brave.

707
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 5: We honor their commitment.

708
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like it reminds me of some

709
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: of the things that Trump would say in his first term,

710
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: Like when he was talking about Putin, He's like, what

711
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: you think we're so you think we don't have by killers?

712
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were so innocent here or yeah, or the

713
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: way he would you know, talk.

714
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: About meeting with North Korea or meeting with the Taliban,

715
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: Like I feel like we got a little more of

716
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: this Trump the first administry. This was a bit of

717
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: a throwback, but it's also funny just in the context of,

718
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, a bunch of lefties, Hassan in particular, have

719
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: gotten a lot of shit for talking about the Houthis

720
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: and being like, you know, it's brave what they're doing.

721
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: And here you have Trump and being like, they're very brave.

722
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: What can I say, I honor their commitment.

723
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: Imagine Barack Obama calling the Houthies brave.

724
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: Imagine how Republicans, thank God, honoring the bravery of the

725
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: Hoho thies.

726
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 5: You can't, you just can't.

727
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: Cannot only Trump, only Trump, We would still be talking

728
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: about the scandal of it to this day. I'm not

729
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: even kidding it is.

730
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 4: It's kind of a crazy thing to say.

731
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 3: But sorry, Hassan, but like, it is kind of crazy

732
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 3: from the president who's in charge of the United States

733
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: foreign policy.

734
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 4: And yet and yet here we are.

735
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: So but I guess a little bit of good news

736
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: on that front too, and cannot be divorced from the

737
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: broader context of the administration heading to Oman this weekend

738
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 3: for negotiations on the Iran nuclear deal.

739
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 4: We have some updates on that front as well. Yeah,

740
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: we do.

741
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 2: But before we get to that, I want to talk

742
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: about this report from Reuters, which is deeply troubling and

743
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: really significant. Let's put this up on the screen so

744
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: they were able to get this exclusive report that the

745
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 2: US and Israel are discussing a possible US led administration Gaza.

746
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: Let me repeat that, a US led indefinite administration occupation,

747
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: you could say, of Gaza. Let me read you a

748
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: little bit of this report, because just the utter insanity

749
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: of this I cannot possibly be overstated. The US and

750
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 2: History have discussed the possibility of Washington leading a temporary

751
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: postwar administration of Gaza. According five people familiar with the matter,

752
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: the high level consultations have centered around a transitional government

753
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: headed by a US official that would oversee Gaza until

754
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: it had been demilitarized and stabilized and a viable Palestinian

755
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: administration had emerged.

756
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 5: I'm sure that'll be easy, no problems there.

757
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: According to the discussions, which remain preliminary, there'd be no

758
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: fixed timeline for how long such a US led administration

759
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: would last, so we're talking about literally good last forever,

760
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: which would depend on the situation. On the grounds of

761
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: hive sources said. Those sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity,

762
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: compared the proposal to the Coalition Provisional Authority in that

763
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: Washington established in two thousand and three, shortly after the

764
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: US led.

765
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 5: Invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein Emily. How did that go?

766
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 5: Can we check back in on that? How? How did

767
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 5: that work out for us? A great idea? Did we

768
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 5: execute it well? Did it? You know, foment tons of

769
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 5: terrorism and horror for years to come.

770
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: I think we were able to successfully win the love

771
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: and affection of the people and establish.

772
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 5: A demonstians accomplished is what I heard.

773
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 3: What we did was spread democracy, and democracy is contagious,

774
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 3: as you know.

775
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, especially in the Middle East.

776
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: I just.

777
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 5: These words, they.

778
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: Truly, I mean, a few things are shocking to me

779
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: with Trump at this point, but he ran in opposition

780
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: to the Iraq War.

781
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 5: This was one of his.

782
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: Campaign innovations, calling Jeff I mean, we all loved watching

783
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 2: him call out Jeb Bush to his face on stage

784
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: or his brother going into Iraq, And that was one

785
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: of the ways he really did separate himself from the

786
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: pack and really did seem to represent some sort of

787
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 2: a break from the traditional Republican establishment, and now here

788
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: you are talking about perhaps the most disputed land on

789
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 2: the entire planet, and we are going to administer it indefinitely.

790
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: And the model is the coalition provisional authority in a rock.

791
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: I mean, the human horror of it, the stupidity of it,

792
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: the insanity of it.

793
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 5: I just I literally cannot get over it.

794
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: And of course we fund one side of the dispute

795
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: in that conflicted territory to the tune of billions of

796
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: dollars a year. So trying to pitch that to the

797
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 3: Palestinian people, you're already.

798
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 4: Going to be I mean, like, well, what are you

799
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 4: talking about?

800
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: This is just basically the same thing as giving Israel

801
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: the land percent And I can't tell if this Reuter

802
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: story is a leak from people who think it's a

803
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 3: really good idea or people who think it's a really

804
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 3: bad idea.

805
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: I couldn't tell genuinely in the.

806
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: Story if this is a trial balloon to try to

807
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: acclimate people to this idea, or it is to try

808
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 3: to blow the whistle and say someone needs to stop this.

809
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: My instinct is that this is people saying this is

810
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: a really great idea, let's slowly try to acclimate the

811
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: media and the public to This is a quote from

812
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 3: the article. The quote, high level consultations have centered around

813
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 3: a transitional government. As you read, how did buy a

814
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: US official that would oversee Gaza until it had been

815
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: demilitarized and stabilized and a viable Palestinian administration had emerged.

816
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 3: So just zeroing in on that, we have no idea

817
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 3: what a timeline would look like in that case, until

818
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 3: a viable Palestinian administration had emerged.

819
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 4: The word viable is incredibly vague. That could mean a

820
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 4: million different things, and it could mean a million years

821
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 4: for as long as for as far as we're concerned,

822
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 4: because viable is going to be in the eyes of

823
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: the US beholder and Israeli beholder in this case. And

824
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 4: it's very hard to believe that Benjamin Netanyah, who's coalition

825
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 4: won't always be in power, but believes you know, he

826
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 4: was totally at odds with Joe Biden about the question

827
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 4: of a two state solution, doesn't believe in a two

828
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 4: state solution. So what does viable mean?

829
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: That's right, How did our viable government in Afghanistan workout?

830
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: How did that one go as well. I mean, I

831
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: just I had the same question about who was leaking

832
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: this and why? And then the other question I have

833
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: is Trump te's this big Middle East announcement?

834
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 5: Is this it?

835
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 4: I think?

836
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: So?

837
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: I think that's I think that's exactly what it is.

838
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: You do, Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what

839
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: to say. I don't even know what to say. But

840
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: it's consistent with what he's been saying all along about

841
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: we're going to we are going to own Gaza.

842
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 4: So this is this is the roadmap to the Gaza Rouvierra. Basically, Yeah,

843
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 4: that's right.

844
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 2: And you know, again, I think you have to take

845
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: him seriously. I think he got this idea in his

846
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: head and his eyes lit up at the idea of

847
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: like the beachfront property or whatever. And now here we

848
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: are planning some indefinite, endless occupation of Gaza.

849
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 5: It's just it's just an absolute horror.

850
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: And at the same time, the israelis now the mask

851
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 2: is totally off.

852
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 11: You know.

853
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: In the beginning days, Emily, I'm sure remember we had

854
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 2: all these conversations about like, well, what's the day after

855
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: the war.

856
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 5: And what's the plan.

857
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: And of course Phoebe would never say you know, he

858
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: would always oh, well, it's just we're just focused on

859
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: the hostages.

860
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 5: Also, by the way, update on that in a moment.

861
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for how much they care about the hostages

862
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: and what a priority that is for them in this

863
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: new expanded Gaza operation that they just authorize. In any case,

864
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 2: they have now made it plain the goal is we

865
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 2: want to we want to permanently occupy Gaza, we want

866
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 2: to flatten Gaza. You and Ryan covered this earlier this week,

867
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: and some Democrats are starting to be a little bit

868
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: more vocal. Senator Chris van Holland, who have to say,

869
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: has been compared to other Democrats. He actually had traveled

870
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: to the region previously under the Biden administration and was

871
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: blowing the whistle right, was blowing the whistle on the

872
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: you know, all of the ways that they were blocking

873
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: aid and how insufficient the aid was at least some

874
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: aid was getting in at that point, but how insufficient

875
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: it was, and that it was the Israeli's fault that

876
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: more aid wasn't getting into the strip.

877
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 5: So he has been a vocal critic here for a while.

878
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: He's now going one step further and saying that the

879
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: Israeli plan is brazen ethnic cleansing.

880
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 5: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

881
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 11: I want to talk about the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.

882
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 11: It's now been well over sixty days since the net

883
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 11: Yahoo government imposed a total blockade of humanitarian assistance to

884
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 11: the people of Gaza, not allowing any food or any

885
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 11: other humanitarian assistance to reach the over two million civilians there.

886
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 11: With holding food and humanitarian assistance as a weapon of

887
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 11: war is flat out illegal under international law. It is

888
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 11: collective punishment, pure and simple. And now we're told that

889
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 11: the net Yahoo government plans to seize and reoccupy huge

890
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 11: parts of Gaza. And recently Ben Gavier, one of the

891
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 11: most ultra extreme members of the extremist net Yahoo government,

892
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 11: was in Washington calling for the implementation of the Donald

893
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 11: Trump plan to essentially force two million Palestinian civilians to

894
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 11: leave Gosa. That is simply ethnic cleansing by another name.

895
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: And Ben Gavier, of course, very influential in this administration,

896
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: and you know, very much in line with what many

897
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: members of the net Yahoo government and frankly much of

898
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: the Israeli public also won at this point. And you know,

899
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: we are more than two months since any food, water,

900
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: medicine has been allowed to enter the strip more than

901
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: two months, and you've got roughly two million people there.

902
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: We really don't know how many people there are are

903
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: still alive at this point. President Trump had suggested the

904
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: number was lower at this point. But in any case,

905
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 2: you have millions of people there, and they will all

906
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: die if food does not come in. We already have

907
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: dozens who have died of starvation. You know, children in

908
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: particular suffering gravely from malnutrition. And that's that's where we

909
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: are at this state.

910
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 3: Let's put the next element up on screen. This is

911
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 3: a tweet from drop site, which looked at times of

912
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: Israel report from yesterday May seventh, and crystal this just

913
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 3: makes your stomach sink. The headline here is leaked Israeli

914
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: document rescuing captives ranked last in Gaza war goals. A

915
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 3: leaked military is really military document shows that rescuing captives

916
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: in Gaza is listed last amongst six official objectives for

917
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 3: a planned ground offensive in Gaza.

918
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 4: And let's just go through these six.

919
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 3: Because if you're reading these as steps, and I think

920
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: that's a correct way to read them, by the time

921
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: you get to six, it just again it makes your

922
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: stomach sink. One defeating Hamas, two achieving operational control over Gaza,

923
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: three demilitarizing the territory, four striking Hamas government targets. Five

924
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: concentrating and relowating the population. Six rescuing the captives. And

925
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: Netna who is already facing regular protests from the hostage

926
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: families because many of them want him to make a

927
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: deal to rescue any living hostages, obviously, and to return

928
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: the bodies of any deceased hostages. But this has always

929
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: been the fundamental early criticism I mean, going back to

930
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 3: middle late October of the net Nyahu administration from hostage families,

931
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: not all of them, but some of them who felt

932
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 3: that actually rescuing the hostages was taking secondary, taking a backseat,

933
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 3: basically to this broader goal of taking over goss of obliterate.

934
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: I mean to put it in the words oft Yahu,

935
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: obliterating hamas, eliminating hamas. But in the process of eliminating hamas,

936
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 3: do you eliminate the lives of hostages? In some cases

937
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 3: we know that is likely what happened.

938
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

939
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 3: And secondly, I mean, because this tweet says, despite repeated

940
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 3: public claims by Israeli leaders that freeing them is the

941
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 3: war's top priority.

942
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 4: But you know what, there's been mixed messages on that.

943
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: They've kind of tried to have it both ways, saying

944
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 3: that the hostages are their priority, but also that the

945
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 3: top aim of the wars to eliminate Hamas, and those

946
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 3: goals are not necessarily categorically compatible.

947
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and that is what many hostage families

948
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: and many Israelis recognize, and that really has been the

949
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: focal point from what I can tell of a lot

950
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: of the protests. You know, if you ask Israeli Is

951
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: according to the polls, it has the war been too

952
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: brutal on Palestinians. The number that say that is like

953
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: four percent. I mean, it's shockingly low. But there's been

954
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 2: a lot of descent around the issue of what the

955
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: impact is on the hostages of this all out assault,

956
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: genocidal assault on Gaza. And it has long been clear

957
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: that BB and Co. Did not care about the hostages.

958
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: They were happy to use them for propaganda value, and

959
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 2: they aggressively. I mean, you remember in the early stages

960
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: that the pictures of the hostages were everywhere, and if

961
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: you weren't fully behind the Israeli war effort. Well, you

962
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: don't care about the hostages and you just want them

963
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: to die. And for a long time from the beginning,

964
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 2: what hostage families and others have been saying is, yeah,

965
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 2: but you don't know where our family members are. So

966
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 2: if you are bombing starving this population, our family members

967
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 2: are there too. So if you actually want to prioritize

968
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: the hostages, what you would prioritize is remember there was

969
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: that brief deal early in the war that there was

970
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: a brief cease fire and there was an exchange of

971
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: hostages from both the Israeli and the Palestinian side. That's

972
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: when most of the hostages who were released were released during.

973
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 5: That time period.

974
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: That is how you actually get the hostages back is

975
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 2: through diplomatic negotiations and a ceasefire. Hamasas said from the beginning,

976
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 2: we'll do an all for all exchange. You release all

977
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: of the Palestinian hostages prisoners that you're holding, we will

978
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: release all of the israel High hostages that we are

979
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: holding as well. So it has always been clear, and

980
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: the military effort to rescue any of the hostages have

981
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: been I think there was one that was successful and

982
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 2: it also included mass civilian death and a lot of

983
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 2: chaos and cartage as a result of that operation to

984
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: rescue hostages. So it's always been very clear if you

985
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: actually want to secure hostages, then you need to negotiate.

986
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 2: The diplomatic resolution is the way that you're going to

987
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: save hostage lives. And we were told that, you know,

988
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: the no, no, no, the hostages are the number one priority.

989
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 2: And now again, as I said before, the mask is

990
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 2: coming off of Israel, they no longer feel the need

991
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: to lie and pretend like hostage lives are the number

992
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 2: one priority. And you know, this leak document just confirms

993
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: actually it's the last on the list of war aims,

994
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 2: the least important war aim is to secure the release

995
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: of the hostages at this point, well, and it.

996
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: Was always for the sake of this goal that again

997
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: was unattainable without complete and utter civilian destruction, because we knew,

998
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: I mean, we could tell in the early stages of

999
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 3: the war that Hamas was not going to be defeated

1000
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: without that that they were already reconstituting within what would

1001
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: like six months was about six months, they were already

1002
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 3: reconstituting control and like government authority in particular areas of Gaza,

1003
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: like in Rafa. So it was all I think if

1004
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: I were, you know, a hostage family, that is what

1005
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: would weigh most heavily on me, is that they're not like,

1006
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: what is the end here? I don't think anybody ever

1007
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: really knew, because well, I mean, the end for many people,

1008
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: let's say, was just this goal of quote unquote eliminitating Hamas.

1009
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 3: But what that would actually look like, when that would end,

1010
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: if it was attainable.

1011
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 4: Those were the questions.

1012
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: I think that we were haunting a lot of the

1013
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 3: families of the hostages.

1014
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: All right, let's go and get to this update with

1015
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: regard to run negotiations. Jd Vance. This was in Munich yesterday.

1016
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: Correct that he was speaking, getting asked about it, returned,

1017
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: he returned to un By the way, the tone the

1018
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: time much so.

1019
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 4: Different, much softer. Yeah, it's interesting.

1020
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 5: Little chastened was kind of yeah, what did you make

1021
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 5: of that?

1022
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it was interesting because he started off by acknowledging,

1023
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 3: you know, the elephant in the room and breaking the ice,

1024
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: cutting through any tension, and so I wasn't sure if

1025
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: I was going to be invited back, and his tone

1026
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 3: overall it was a conversation or not a speech, So

1027
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: I think that helped it. The tone be more a

1028
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 3: little bit more that's the right word, maybe chastened or

1029
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 3: just like buttoned down.

1030
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: It was a bit more relaydance that was on stage

1031
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: with Tim Walls. Yes, it was very much like a

1032
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: very nice, moderate dude, like, you know, we're trying to

1033
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 2: get along here, whereas the first speech was very aggressive.

1034
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 4: Yes, it was very prickly and abrasive.

1035
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 3: And this was him I think, realizing that you can

1036
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: catch more flies with honey.

1037
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: And I think also the trade war has changed the dynamics.

1038
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: We're also they feel like they need Europe to side

1039
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: with the US against China, and so there's there have

1040
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: been some shifts there.

1041
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 4: In any case, he.

1042
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 3: Did have a really good quote where he said, basically

1043
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: like the point is not US versus Europe, and I

1044
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 3: don't want things to seem that way though you can

1045
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 3: understand why the Europeans, by the way, interpreted that earlier

1046
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: Munich speech as in US versus Europe. But he's saying

1047
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: that's not the point. The point is that we actually

1048
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 3: need each other. It was a much it was actually

1049
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 3: I think a much more mature version of the argument,

1050
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 3: and obviously he's had a couple of months to get

1051
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 3: feedback and hear from people about how that first argument landed.

1052
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: Don't forget too that the signal Gate chats that leak

1053
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: down where Jade Vance is trying to make the case

1054
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: against the strikes in Yemen by being like, oh, we're

1055
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 2: just bailing out those chromy Europeans again, and Hegseath I

1056
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 2: think was the one that chimed in, right, Yeah, who

1057
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, we you know, we can't stand them.

1058
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: I mean there was a lot of euro bashing going

1059
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: on in that chat. Yeah, and they read those as well,

1060
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: so I'm sure they were were also not super happy

1061
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: about the contents that messages.

1062
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 3: Super quickly I pulled up the quotes because I think

1063
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: it gives a good flavor of his tone. Yesterday he said, quote,

1064
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if after February I'd get the invitation back.

1065
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 3: Everything that I said there applied as much to the

1066
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 3: previous American administration as it did in any government as

1067
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: it did any government in Europe. So he was saying

1068
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: sort of humbling himself and saying, well, not himself, but

1069
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: humbling his country and saying the Biden administration was just

1070
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: as bad as I.

1071
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 4: Think you guys are. It's like Biden's a Armer's same thing.

1072
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: Biden administration wasn't kidnapping students off the street for writing

1073
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: up its.

1074
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 5: But then that part always goes on set.

1075
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1076
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 4: Then he then he goes on to say it's not

1077
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 4: Europe bad, America good.

1078
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: Both Europe and the US. We got a little off track.

1079
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 3: So that's a night and day Tonal difference. But he

1080
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 3: was in conversation this.

1081
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 4: Time, so I guess it's not like a scripted speech attack.

1082
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 4: He was talking to some guy up on stage.

1083
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 5: Gotcha, Okay.

1084
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: So in part of that talking to some guy up

1085
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: on stage, he gets asked about the status of the

1086
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: Iran nuclear negotiations.

1087
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 5: Interesting comments here. Let's take a lism.

1088
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 12: So there are a couple issues with the earlier agreement,

1089
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 12: the jcpoas as it's called here in the United States

1090
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 12: and I assume in Europe. But here here are the

1091
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 12: two big issues with that agreement are. Number one, the

1092
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 12: enforcement or the inspections regime was incredibly weak, and I

1093
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 12: don't think that it actually served the function of preventing

1094
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 12: the Iranians from getting on the pathway to a nuclear weapon.

1095
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 12: That's one thing that must be different. And then second, yes,

1096
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 12: we believe that there were some elements of their nuclear

1097
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 12: program that were preserved under JCPOA that yes, they weren't

1098
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 12: nuclear weapons. Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon, but allowed

1099
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 12: Iran to sort of stay on this glide path towards

1100
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 12: a nuclear weapon if they flipped the switch and press go.

1101
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 12: And we have to think about this not just in

1102
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 12: terms of Iran, which again the President has said this.

1103
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 12: We think that there is a deal here that would

1104
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 12: reintegrate Iran into the global economy, that would be really

1105
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 12: good for the Iranian people, but would result in the

1106
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 12: complete cessation of any chance that they can get a

1107
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 12: nuclear weapon.

1108
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 5: And that's what we're negotiating towards. So what did you

1109
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 5: think of his comments there? Emi language? What was now worthy?

1110
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean really interesting because they need the buy

1111
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 3: in of Senate Republicans who have been hearing these leaks

1112
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: the broad contours of a potential Trump are on negotiation

1113
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 3: and saying that sounds exactly like the JCPOA.

1114
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 4: The Foundation for Defensive Democracy is very hawkish on this.

1115
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: Some of their folks have been making that criticism and

1116
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: I think the Trump administration knows that they need the

1117
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: buy in of a significant part of the Republican coalition,

1118
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: and they're not going to get that for the JCPOA,

1119
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 3: even if it's Donald Trump. You know, you saw we

1120
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 3: didn't talk about this yesterday, but Tom tellis under Tom

1121
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 3: tellis coming out against Trump's DC attorney pick Ed Martin

1122
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 3: and tariffs had Rand Paul, for example, bringing together this

1123
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 3: byport partisan coalition to try and get a vote to

1124
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 3: take back at least symbolically Congress's power over trade. So

1125
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 3: I think think they realized that on the highest priority issues,

1126
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 3: and I cannot think of a higher priority issue for

1127
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 3: the Hawks in the Republican Party, the like remaining neo

1128
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: conservatives a Tom Cotton, a Lindsay Graham, whenever it is.

1129
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: You cannot just copy and paste JCPOA, even if you're

1130
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, which is one of the reasons actually people

1131
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 3: ended up getting on the Trump bandwagon back in twenty

1132
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: fifteen and twenty sixteen because he was such an opponent

1133
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 3: of JCPOA. So I think what Jade Vance was doing

1134
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 3: yesterday was making a substantive and fair criticism of jcpoa's oversight.

1135
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 3: The oversight let's say regime that was in JCPOA like

1136
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 3: you have to be able to verify what Iran is

1137
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 3: actually doing. Otherwise the whole thing kind of falls apart

1138
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 3: and it's kind of useless. So I think it's it's

1139
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 3: a reasonable criticism.

1140
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 4: I also think it was a way to distance the Trump.

1141
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 5: Plan, say this is this is totally like, this is

1142
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 5: way better than that, So it's not as well.

1143
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 3: It's not impossible that they land on especially if we're

1144
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: grading on the curve of like conservative Republican Party lawmakers,

1145
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 3: it's not impossible that they land on a solution here

1146
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: that is much better than your typical Republican or maybe

1147
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 3: even your typical Democrat would have negotiated.

1148
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 4: But that's obviously it mays to be seen. They're negotiating

1149
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 4: in Oman.

1150
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 3: It's the weird thing of the Trump eras that because

1151
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 3: of the oddities and the coalition, and because of Trump's

1152
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 3: very eccentric, to say the least, approach to these negotiations,

1153
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 3: they sometimes end up in good places.

1154
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: We'll see, yeah, we'll say fingers crossed that they just

1155
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: you know, get back into something approximating Jacboa, but are

1156
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: able to put some rhetorical flourish on that keeps most

1157
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 2: Republicans on board, because I do think that that is

1158
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: a genuine risk, given the fact, you know what we're

1159
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: about to transition to block on the Medicaid cuts, the

1160
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: block on what's going on with MAHA. There are cracks

1161
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 2: that are starting to emerge. And as this administration gets

1162
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: more popular across a broader range of issues, as the

1163
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 2: economic numbers get more uncertain, it just gives you a

1164
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: lot less room to navigate. And also as the mitrop's

1165
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 2: getting closer, and many of these, you know, the members

1166
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: who are up are looking at their reelection bids and

1167
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: getting very nervous. And then of course there are such

1168
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 2: hawkish organized forces in Washington that the vast majority of

1169
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 2: the Republican caucus has been you know, has been aligned with,

1170
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 2: so it will be difficult for them to persuade their

1171
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 2: own caucus that this is a deal worth negotiating.

1172
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 5: We shouldn't just go to war with Iron, which of

1173
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 5: course would be an utter disaster.

1174
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 4: They have been flipping out over it.

1175
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 3: As soon as it became likely or possible that Trump

1176
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 3: was going to pursue a broad plan or a plan

1177
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: that broadly resembled JCPOA in some way or another meaning

1178
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 3: allowing for some enrichment for at least civilian purposes in

1179
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 3: the agreement.

1180
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, quote unquote civilian purposes.

1181
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: And that's it's not that they don't have a point,

1182
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 3: that that's something that people should absolutely be concerned about.

1183
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 4: But is it realistic.

1184
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 3: No, in all likelihood, it's not realistic to start, let's say,

1185
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 3: thawing these tensions or cooling these tensions without coming to

1186
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 3: some sort of agreement that has in an agreement, you

1187
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 3: have to like give and take a little bit, and

1188
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 3: you end up with no agreement whatsoever.

1189
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: And the administration has been all over the map with

1190
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: regard to enrichment. Jd Vance there seemed to say no Enrichmond.

1191
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: Others have said no enrichment. Tonal Trump got asked about

1192
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: it and he said he's not sure, so which is good.

1193
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 4: I'm glad.

1194
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 5: I'm glad he said that.

1195
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 4: I think whit CoP's gone back and forth as well.

1196
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's right too, And I'm

1197
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 2: not I don't remember if it was in clip we

1198
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: played there or not that jd Vance made a comment

1199
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: during their saying like that no country has ever had

1200
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 2: civilian enrichment and not ended up with a nuclear weapon,

1201
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: and that.

1202
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 5: Is just not true at all.

1203
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: Japan, Brazil, Germany, Lens are among countries that enrich uranium

1204
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: and haven't pursued nuclear weapons. So not that part was

1205
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: not particularly encouraging. But we'll see where it all goes.

1206
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 4: Hey, that's a rare glimmer of optimism. I suppose the best.

1207
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 5: You're going to get for me, Crystal. All right, let's

1208
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 5: go ahead and move.

1209
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: Speaking of not having glimmers of optimism, let's move to

1210
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: the quite drastic Medicaid cuts that appear to be part

1211
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: of the big, beautiful bill that Republicans are in the

1212
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: process of negotiating.

1213
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 5: David dan Over at the American.

1214
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: Prospect getting the scoop here on the specifics of the

1215
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: Medicaid cuts that the Republican Caucus is planning on making.

1216
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 5: Let's put this up on.

1217
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 2: The screen, and guys, I'm just saying, I'm going to

1218
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: take my time.

1219
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 5: To go through a little bit of this because this

1220
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 5: is so important.

1221
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 2: So he says, I've obtained a list of the Medicaid

1222
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: cuts in the Republican reconciliation package. The big one is

1223
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: that they're going to raise premiums and copays on beneficiaries

1224
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: at or above the federal poverty line. That is what

1225
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: helps pay for the tax cuts, and that's what he

1226
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 2: has here in this text. He says the most potentially

1227
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: explosive item on the menu is cost sharing above one

1228
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: hundred percent of FPL. That's a federal poverty line. That

1229
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,479
Speaker 2: appears to mean that Medicaid recipients making ad or above

1230
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: the federal poverty line, which is fifteen thousand and six

1231
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: fifty for a single individual and twenty one thousand and

1232
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 2: one to fifty very low amounts here for a two

1233
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 2: person household would have to pay some money for coverage,

1234
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 2: either in premiums, copays, or hospital visits and other treatment

1235
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: or other fees. Currently, Medicaid gives states the option to

1236
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 2: impose out a pocket spending on recipients, so some populations

1237
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 2: and services like children under eighteen or pregnancy care are exempted.

1238
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: Some premiums and enrollment fees are limited to beneficiaries above

1239
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty percent of the poverty line. This

1240
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: policy would take that number lower. Making poor people pay

1241
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: more for healthcare is exactly the kind of cut effective

1242
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: cut to Medicaid that moderate Republicans have sworn they would

1243
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: not abide while reducing the federal share of o Bombcare's

1244
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 2: Medicaid expansion, which provides federal funding to extend Medicaid to

1245
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: adults under age sixty five up to one hundred thirty

1246
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 2: eight percent of the poverty level in forty states.

1247
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 5: In DC, is not part of the menu.

1248
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 4: This is a.

1249
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 2: Backdoor way of achieving something like that reduction on the

1250
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 2: backs of individuals who get Medicaid.

1251
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 5: There are other provisions in here as well. There are

1252
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 5: some changes to.

1253
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: The Affordable Care Act that would also increase premiums and

1254
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: raise out of pocket costs for people who enroll through

1255
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 2: the ACA market places, so that is significant. There's some

1256
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: changes here in terms of work requirements. That also you

1257
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 2: know what has been found previously with the Medicaid work requirements,

1258
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: in particular recording the Kaiser Family Foundation. This is also

1259
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: in Dane's reporting, is that sixty one percent of US

1260
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: adults on Medicaid already work. Large fraction of those who

1261
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 2: don't are either disabled or elderly. The requirement would primarily

1262
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: add red tape to the enrollment system. Push people out

1263
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: of Medicaid using bureaucracies is very common tactic, and states

1264
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: like Arkansas have already experimented with this and found that

1265
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 2: exact situation. It was expensive to implement and ultimately did

1266
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 2: not improve efficiency or anything.

1267
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 5: The goals you might imagine with that.

1268
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 2: Instead, it just pushed people out of the program because

1269
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 2: they couldn't go through all of the bureaucratic red tape

1270
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: in order to get in. So bottom line here is

1271
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: that they are planning on making Medicaid more expensive, raising premiums,

1272
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 2: making people who are somewhat above the federal poverty line

1273
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: pay in, and doing some other tweaks around the edges,

1274
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 2: including these work requirements, in order to reduce the cost

1275
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: of Medicaid. So quite significant, and we could put this

1276
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: next piece up on the screen just to get a

1277
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 2: broader sense of some of the different options that they

1278
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: had floated. This isn't specifically looking at the day of

1279
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: the day and report of what they've sort of landed on,

1280
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: but it lists all of these different options that had

1281
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: been suggested had been proposed. One of them is reducing

1282
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 2: the expansion of the population matching rate. Another one is

1283
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: limiting state taxes on healthcare providers, capping spending per enrollies,

1284
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 2: repealing eligiblibility, and enrollment final rate.

1285
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 5: Any one of these options.

1286
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: They find would yes reduce the federal deficits somewhat, and

1287
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: also would reduce Medicaid coverage by millions of people. Anywhere

1288
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 2: from eight point six million people to two point three

1289
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: million people would be cut off from Medicaid and you

1290
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: would have a significant increase in all instances in uninsured people.

1291
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 5: So that is where we are and what we're looking at.

1292
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 3: This is a trip war for Republicans who want to

1293
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 3: need to, by their own strategic intentions, pass a tax

1294
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 3: cut bill in order to we could disagree with their

1295
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 3: argument here, but in order to supplement the terif regime

1296
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 3: and the trade war.

1297
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 4: They don't believe.

1298
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 3: I mean, they've said this over and over again that

1299
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 3: they need a tax bill to have their intended effects

1300
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 3: in the trade war. And you know, you could go

1301
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 3: and look at that and say, well, then maybe you

1302
01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 3: should have done the tax bill first, and if you

1303
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 3: got it passed, then done all of these tariffs at

1304
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 3: the at the sort of wild levels, unexpected levels that

1305
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, even the administration sort of

1306
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: admits were very radical because they ended up walking them back.

1307
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 3: And Trump said the bond market it was getting a

1308
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 3: little yippy. So it's it's by their own admission that

1309
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 3: some of this was a little wild. So maybe wait

1310
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 3: till after you get the tax cut bill passed, because

1311
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 3: now Republicans need to offset the tax cuts with significant

1312
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 3: spending cuts. They believed that Doge was going to find

1313
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 3: Elon Musk first said two trillion dollars in savings. He

1314
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 3: then said one trillion dollars in savings. Now we don't

1315
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: even know if it'll be two hundred billion dollars.

1316
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: They did spend saving, probably spent more money than they say,

1317
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding, not genuinely.

1318
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 4: Not out of the question. Yeah, it's they've they have

1319
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 4: not come anywhere near what Republicans expected Doche to do.

1320
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 2: Like they actually thought they were going to cut with

1321
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: trillion dollars or some absolutely they really thought that.

1322
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone thought two trillion was possible, but

1323
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: I think, I mean, the federal budget is a while thing,

1324
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 3: and I think even like some Democrats will yeah, you

1325
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 3: could probably do that, but the way they went about

1326
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 3: doing it, it's kind of exactly what you would expect

1327
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 3: when you let oligarch run wild in the federal government

1328
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 3: with a bunch of like no fighting twenty year olds, right,

1329
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 3: because it's the same argument that people made against drowing

1330
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 3: Pete Haigsteth at the Pentagon and we talked about this

1331
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: with Mark Lucas, like maybe you need somebody.

1332
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 4: You have to find the rare person who knows the

1333
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 4: bureaucracy in order to take on the bureaucracy.

1334
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 3: Otherwise you end up not being efficient at all because

1335
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 3: you don't even know where to look, you don't even

1336
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 3: know what to do. And that's sort of been an interesting,

1337
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 3: like ez Recline argument against DOGE is that it's not

1338
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 3: efficient to just come in and make cuts. Some of

1339
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 3: these cuts end up being inefficient, and then you end

1340
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: up maybe spending more money than you even cut. But

1341
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 3: the bottom line is congressional Republicans now have to come

1342
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 3: up with a budget that allows them to do these

1343
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 3: tax cuts because they're also full of deficit hawks. They

1344
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 3: now have populists because some of these Republicans represent working class,

1345
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 3: heavily working class districts with a lot of people on Medicaid.

1346
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 3: And Trump has said we could roll the tape back

1347
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 3: from I think it was February nineteenth. He's sitting next

1348
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 3: to Elon Musk in an interview with Sean Hannity and

1349
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 3: says Medicare, Medicaid, none of that stuff will be touched.

1350
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 4: Then he goes on to say maybe for non citizens,

1351
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 4: that sort of thing.

1352
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 3: And so he was assuring the US citizen American tax pair,

1353
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 3: your Medicaid, your Medicare is going to be safe. The

1354
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: only things we might make are tweaking around the edges

1355
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 3: to affect non citizens or fraud. So they might be

1356
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 3: able to make the argument that work requirements are going

1357
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 3: against fraud whatever.

1358
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 4: I mean.

1359
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 3: Medicaid spending is about nine percent of the federal budget

1360
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 3: as of at least twenty twenty two.

1361
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 4: I mean, is a huge amount of money.

1362
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 3: So it's irresistible for devis at hawk Republicans to want

1363
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 3: to cut Medicaid. But if you cut Medicaid, you infuriate

1364
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people who put their rightfully or wrongfully,

1365
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 3: their trust in the Trump Republican Party and Trump in particular.

1366
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 3: How do they get to the tax cut bill with

1367
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: enough votes even to pass the House. The slim margins

1368
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 3: that they have genuinely a mystery at this point.

1369
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: Well, and most of the tax cut bill is just

1370
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 2: to give away to the rich. I mean it's you

1371
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 2: are literally cutting health insurance for poor people to pay

1372
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 2: for a tax cut for the rich. That's what you're doing.

1373
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 2: And there was even some acknowledgment. Remember there's some leaked

1374
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 2: Republicans to Axios. I think saying like that's going to

1375
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 2: be a tough one for us to be fige on yep,

1376
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: because that's it's so politically toxic that it is hard

1377
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 2: to imagine doing something more unpopular.

1378
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 4: We have the C three. This is Don Bacon.

1379
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and put Don Bacon up on the screen. Don

1380
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: Bacon is in this. He's Nebraska right in this swing district.

1381
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 2: Has not actually announced whether he's running for reelection. Again,

1382
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any way wins. I just you know,

1383
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 2: I don't think it runs the way that this year

1384
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 2: is shaping up. This is one of the districts actually

1385
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders went to as well, recognizing and very smartly

1386
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 2: recognizing that him and others in similar positions would be

1387
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: a vulnerability on trying to cut medicaid. In any case,

1388
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 2: Don Bacon, one of the most vulnerable House members, is

1389
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 2: warning some Republican leaders have privately tried to get him

1390
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 2: and others on board with this reconciliation built by claiming

1391
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 2: any steep Medicaid cuts passed by the House, they're going

1392
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: to be blocked by the Senate anyway. Here's the tactic

1393
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 2: they've been using. He says, don't worry about the Senate.

1394
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 2: They'll fix it. And now we're getting ready to take

1395
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 2: our third vote on this. Bacon sat in a recent interview,

1396
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: we feel like we're being pushed up to the edge

1397
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 2: of the cliff here. So here he is in the

1398
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: swing district. He knows that this is political poison, and

1399
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: yet they are the tax cut thing Trump. This is

1400
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: the one thing that he consistently promised to the financier class,

1401
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 2: I mean really explicitly, like vote for me and you're

1402
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 2: getting your tax cut. And they are not particularly happy

1403
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 2: about the whole terriff situation. So I think that adds

1404
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 2: pressure that you on that piece you have to deliver.

1405
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 2: And you know, Republicans have long been lined up behind

1406
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 2: giving tax cuts to wealthy people. That was the primary

1407
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,439
Speaker 2: accomplishment of Trump's first administration. So I think he also

1408
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 2: has like, you know, a sort of ego commitment to

1409
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: it as well, outside of the way it benefits himself.

1410
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 5: Personally as well.

1411
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 2: So that piece has to be in, and then to

1412
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 2: make up for it, they're increasing the Pentagon budget, so

1413
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 2: it's not coming out of the defense side of the ledger.

1414
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 5: That would be the other place you could.

1415
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 2: Look if you don't want to take healthcare away from

1416
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: poor people, Well that's off the table.

1417
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 5: They're upping the budget over there.

1418
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: So that leaves you with forced to make really quite

1419
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: significant cuts to Medicaid that are going to that Trump

1420
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 2: promised he wouldn't and that are wildly politically unpopular and

1421
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: more importantly, are going to be really devastating to millions

1422
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 2: of Americans who depend on Medicaid. And you know, in

1423
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: a way, this is a very real success of Obamacare,

1424
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 2: the way that Medicaid expansion has made this program much

1425
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 2: more politically popular and much more difficult politically to cut

1426
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: because you have so many more millions of Americans who

1427
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 2: benefit from Medicaid at this point than prior to the

1428
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: Obamacare expansion.

1429
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 5: So that's part of the background here as well.

1430
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the politics of those were Republicans even

1431
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 3: you know, I went back, so I wrote about this yesterday.

1432
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 3: I was going back and looking at some of you

1433
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 3: might remember this because you ran in the Tea Party years,

1434
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 3: Republicans were very careful the way they talked about Medicaid,

1435
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 3: Like actual Republican politicians were very careful the way they

1436
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 3: actually talked about They would talk about, you know, needing

1437
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 3: to reform Social Security or whatever, but when it came

1438
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 3: to Medicare and Medicaid, it was only like the hardest

1439
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 3: of the hardcore who would talk about like actually just

1440
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 3: cutting it and getting people off entitlement programs.

1441
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 4: There was a sensitivity around it.

1442
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 3: If you go back and look what they said, you'd

1443
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 3: be like, wow, that's really interesting because even at the time,

1444
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 3: I think they realized how just disastrous, how important it

1445
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: is to the seniors and the working class people who

1446
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,560
Speaker 3: hate the government, and maybe saw some like hope in

1447
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 3: the Tea Party movement because they were like, yeah, term

1448
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 3: limits and like screw the big banks after the recession,

1449
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 3: how important these programs are to people. So it's just

1450
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 3: like it's the chickens are coming home to rouse for

1451
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 3: Republicans on this.

1452
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess, Emily, can you speak to I mean,

1453
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 2: because the other side of it, you got the Don

1454
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 2: Bacon's on one side who were like, I'm about to

1455
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: get tossed down and may not even run for reelection.

1456
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 5: Because it's looking so bad.

1457
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 2: Then you have people who are genuine fiscal hawks who

1458
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 2: have signed on to some letter saying like no, we

1459
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 2: need steep Medicaid cuts. So they're trying to balance all

1460
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 2: of these pieces, which is I guess why leadership is

1461
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: going to Don Bacon and saying like, just trust does

1462
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 2: It's going to be fine. They'll work it out in

1463
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 2: the Senate. It's not going to be that bad.

1464
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, well the Senate, I mean they're not. That might

1465
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:51,679
Speaker 4: be their best option.

1466
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 3: And I think that's sort of what Mike Johnson is

1467
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 3: getting at because he's ruled certain quote unquote cuts out

1468
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,560
Speaker 3: and that leaves them with like waste froggen abuse work requirements,

1469
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 3: and to quote Rick Perry, here, there's a third thing.

1470
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 3: I'm just forgetting it, but I have it right in

1471
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 3: front of me because Dan posted it. But yeah, they're

1472
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 3: going to get on whatever, like they're going to find

1473
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 3: some outline, but that outline is then going to be taken.

1474
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 3: And Dan put it a great way, and it's similar

1475
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 3: to what you just said. He said in his story.

1476
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 3: He was like, yeah, you're making poor people pay more

1477
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 3: for health care. That's the direct quote from Dane. No

1478
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 3: matter what Republicans do to Medicaid, yeah, Democrats are gonna

1479
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 3: be able to say that, Yeah, it doesn't matter.

1480
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 4: That's what they're gonna be able to say. Yeah, it

1481
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:34,799
Speaker 4: doesn't matter.

1482
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 3: If you get it down to unless it's just on

1483
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 3: like non citizens or something. But it doesn't matter if

1484
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 3: you add work requirements. That's still making poor people pay

1485
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 3: more for health care. And there's ways you can message

1486
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 3: it very effectively in some populous red districts, but it's

1487
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 3: an uphill battle, a real uphill battle, and it gives

1488
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 3: Democrats a huge gift with a very polarizing political environment

1489
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 3: and a polarizing president.

1490
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: And I just want to say with regard to work requirements,

1491
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 2: I said before Arkansas tried this, so this has been

1492
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 2: studied and it really should be seen as a similar

1493
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: tactic to what does is doing with Social Security, where

1494
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 2: they're just making it so you can't you can't get

1495
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 2: someone on the phone, you go to the field office,

1496
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 2: the field office has been closed or the field office

1497
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 2: has a three hour long line, so you're making impossible

1498
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 2: for people to access those benefits. And this is a

1499
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 2: common tactic and issue in neoliberalism where they put up

1500
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 2: so much red tape and layer it with so much bureaucracy.

1501
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 2: This is the kind of thing we need, like a

1502
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 2: real doge to tap. They lay it with so much

1503
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 2: bureaucracy that it means that people just cannot jump through

1504
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 2: all the hoops, or don't have time to jump through

1505
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 2: all the hoops, or can't figure out how to jump

1506
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 2: through all the hoops in order to access the benefits

1507
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 2: that they are entitled to. And that is I think

1508
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 2: what you should really that's the real underlying goal of

1509
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 2: work requirements is the idea that if we make it

1510
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 2: more difficult for people to be able to obtain these benefits,

1511
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 2: and you have to justify here's where I'm working years

1512
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 2: the hours, and I talked to my boss and may

1513
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 2: have cloudy on the phone and all of these sorts

1514
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 2: of things, then you are going to make it so

1515
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 2: fewer people enroll in Medicaid. And that's the way that

1516
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: you're going to cut the numbers that are on this program.

1517
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 2: So it is a backdoor way to make it so

1518
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 2: that fewer people are on Medicaid. It's a cut, that's it,

1519
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: bottom line. And yeah, so democrats will be able to

1520
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 2: point to the numbers whenever we get the final bill

1521
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 2: of exactly what is coming with you know what these

1522
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 2: cuts entail, and say this, many millions of Americans are

1523
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 2: getting kicked off Medicaid. For this many millions of Americans,

1524
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,919
Speaker 2: you are increasing the cost, and you know it's Republicans

1525
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 2: will try to say, oh, work requirements, able bodied and

1526
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: know it's not really a cut all day long. But

1527
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 2: I think it's very difficult to explain your way out

1528
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 2: of your cutting healthcare for poor people to pay for

1529
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 2: rich people's tax cuts.

1530
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is to put it in a corporate a

1531
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 3: bill with a corporate tax cut, which by the way,

1532
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 3: I mean taking the corporate tax rate from twenty one

1533
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 3: to fifteen percent.

1534
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 4: Don't need and it's a can of room to open it.

1535
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 5: Now.

1536
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 3: I'm just like a total you need a like a

1537
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 3: flat tax basically a type of person. And we probably

1538
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 3: disagree on that, but I just believe that's the only

1539
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 3: way to close loopholes, and closing loopholes is the only

1540
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 3: way to get corporations to pay their fair share and

1541
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 3: to pay like to put revenue into the treasury. But

1542
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 3: to do this, to add this into a bill that's

1543
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 3: cutting the corporate tax rate for twenty one to fifteen percent. Yeah,

1544
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 3: that might get companies to in some small way bring

1545
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 3: back their corporate headquarters which have you know, like moved

1546
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 3: to Ireland. Johnson Controls, for example, moves to Ireland, but

1547
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 3: that's the corporate headquarters.

1548
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't necessarily affect that many workers either way.

1549
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 3: They can make this argument that's about onshoring bringing jobs back,

1550
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 3: et cetera.

1551
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, Democrats can now say,

1552
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 4: in a corporate tax cut bill, you cut medicaid like

1553
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 4: it's just a disaster politically, there's no question about it,

1554
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 4: and they have.

1555
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 3: This happened again in twenty seventeen. Paul Ryan was out there,

1556
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 3: this is just going to be my little rant for

1557
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 3: just a brief second. Paul Ryan was out there talking

1558
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 3: about how he was going to get taxes down to

1559
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 3: a postcard and that is like, actually a very I

1560
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 3: think that would be if you're talking about like doing

1561
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 3: it via a flat tax.

1562
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 4: That is a very just.

1563
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 3: System of taxation, wouldn't require corporations to actually pay their

1564
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 3: fair share if it had the right policy incentives in it.

1565
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 4: And not that I trusted Paul Ryan to do that,

1566
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:19,480
Speaker 4: but genuinely.

1567
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 3: If you say, we have this mandate and we're going

1568
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 3: to revamp the tax system, and you end up with

1569
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 3: the TCJA, which is a tax hit bill in twenty seven.

1570
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you end up with whatever this bill

1571
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 4: is going to be.

1572
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 3: Right, you have all of if you claimed this mandate

1573
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 3: from political heaven right now, and you have the generational

1574
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 3: opportunity to do something like doge, and you're not going

1575
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 3: to take it to do any we know it's just

1576
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 3: because lobbyists would swamp them. You can never have a

1577
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 3: fair system of taxation because lobbyists will swamp you, and

1578
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,759
Speaker 3: then you lose and you have no courage or backboner spine,

1579
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 3: and that's how we end up with these awful third ways.

1580
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 5: Yes, some of that I agree with.

1581
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 2: I think if you actually got rid of all of

1582
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,560
Speaker 2: the corporate like deductions of the poles and whatever and

1583
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: had a lower like top line rate, but they actually

1584
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 2: had to pay it, like, there is a version of

1585
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 2: that that I would support, because many of these corporations

1586
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 2: pay nothing, yep, because they availed themselves of so many

1587
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: of these loopholes that exist in our tax gat All right, Well,

1588
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 2: you know who understands some of these things. No our hero,

1589
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 2: our heroin Laura Lumer. Laura Lumer who was also.

1590
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 4: He was an invite out for tomorrow's show.

1591
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 5: This is like, uh yeah she does. That's right, Laura.

1592
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 5: We would love to talk to you tomorrow. Genuinely.

1593
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: Laura Lumer and David Dan are heavily featured. Yesterday was

1594
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:35,640
Speaker 2: the show and Duffy show tomorrow today and David Dan

1595
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: And this was.

1596
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 3: The difference between when I planned shows and when you.

1597
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 2: Plan I guess so I only loves her some show Duffy,

1598
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. All right, put this up on the

1599
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 2: screen from Laura Lumer. So this is so funny to

1600
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,879
Speaker 2: me always how she praises this, but anyway, she is hammering,

1601
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 2: uh this Trump ally Paragon Health CEO Brian Blaze for

1602
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 2: as a as a Rhino saboteur because he's pushed for

1603
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 2: aggressive Medicaid cuts. I'm going to read you her post

1604
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 2: here on Twitter. She says, in a shocking betrayal of

1605
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 2: President Trump's unwavering commitment to America's working class families and

1606
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 2: his promise to protect Medicaid, which he did promise, Paragon

1607
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:19,440
Speaker 2: Health CEO Brian Blaze a covert never Trump we masquerading

1608
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 2: as a MAGA loyalist, spearheading a dangerous campaign to undermine

1609
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 2: the Republican Party's mid term prospects. Twenty sixteen tweets from

1610
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 2: Brian Blaze reveal he once said this is why we

1611
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 2: can't have Trump, meaning like, oh, he's a Trump critic.

1612
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,879
Speaker 2: Along with bashing Trump on ex Blaze has also complimented

1613
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 2: Barack Hussein Obama.

1614
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 5: God Forbid Sea screenshots below.

1615
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 2: Brian Blaze doesn't want you to know this, but he

1616
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 2: is propped up by millions of dollars from the COC

1617
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 2: network's anti Trump war chest. It's currently pressuring congressional Republicans

1618
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 2: to defy the president's ironclad pledge to protect Medicaid, a

1619
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 2: program critical to the Hartley and voter supropelled Trump to

1620
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 2: his election victories. Blaze's insidious push to eliminate provider taxes

1621
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 2: would gut Medicaid funding, hitting Americans the hardest in rural

1622
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 2: red states like Texas, Florida, and Louisiana. By the way,

1623
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 2: this is one of the pieces that Dan reported is

1624
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 2: planned to be in the bill. Where Trump's base depends

1625
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 2: on the Medicaid program for survival. This is why Democrats

1626
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 2: are falsely accusing President Trump of trying to cut medicaid

1627
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:19,759
Speaker 2: because they know it's an effective way to suppress GOP

1628
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 2: turnout for the twenty twenty six midterms. She goes on

1629
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 2: to talk about Steve Bannon. It's a long post. I

1630
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 2: won't read you all of it, but you know, basically

1631
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 2: it's Look, it's clever how.

1632
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 5: She frames it.

1633
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 2: She frames this as like it's a betrayal of Trump's promises, when,

1634
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 2: of course, like obviously Tonald Trump, if he didn't want

1635
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 2: Medicaid to cut be cut, could just go to Mike

1636
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 2: Johnson and John Thune and be like, we're not cutting Medicaid.

1637
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 5: That's not happening.

1638
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: But definitely yeah, but obviously she's got a frame it

1639
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 2: in terms of like he's betraying Trump and Trump's promises

1640
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 2: and endangering and intentionally endangering Republicans for the midterms.

1641
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 5: So that's that's her play here.

1642
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 4: Clever framing. Though.

1643
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 3: Let's throw this next hairsheet up on the screen, because

1644
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 3: Republicans are going to be sort of flailing around. Basically

1645
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 3: that Republicans are are looking to offset the tax cuts

1646
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 3: again by selling some public land. This is actually a

1647
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,680
Speaker 3: fairly popular proposal in some corners of Republican world. I

1648
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 3: haven't looked too deeply into it, and I will now, Crystal,

1649
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 3: but they're going to have to come up with some

1650
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 3: really creative mechanisms because Dose didn't do what they wanted

1651
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 3: Dose to do, and they are cutting taxes a whole

1652
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 3: lot on top of the tariffs, so they badly need

1653
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 3: this to be like a real shot in the arm

1654
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 3: to the markets and to the overall economy. And they

1655
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 3: also have to get the damn bill passed. So that's

1656
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 3: the I mean, they have to make all of these cuts,

1657
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 3: like massive cuts, and get the bill passed with what

1658
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 3: like a two to three volte margin, and that all.

1659
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 5: Increase the Pentagon budget.

1660
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 2: So you have to make up all of that as well,

1661
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: and increase the ICE budget and the detention the you know,

1662
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 2: the budget that goes to like these private prison contractors

1663
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 2: that stand up detention centers. That's being increased massively. So

1664
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 2: it's not just the tax cuts, although that is the

1665
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 2: most sizable piece of it. But you're all so upping

1666
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 2: you know, the police and the military and so ICE yep.

1667
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 2: And so now you're like, maybe we can sell off

1668
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 2: some public lands, some public assets to fund tax.

1669
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 5: I'm sure that's going to go over well.

1670
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, this should be an easy sell back come at

1671
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 3: their districts over the course of the summer.

1672
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 4: But again, like the pressure here is so high, the

1673
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 4: stakes are so high.

1674
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 3: They can only lose like three votes or something, and

1675
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 3: you have the Don Bacons of the world, who may

1676
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 3: not be running for reelection. He's actually criticized. Was it

1677
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 3: Haigseeth the other day that he came out and criticized.

1678
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 3: He's been critical of the administration in some surprising ways,

1679
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 3: which to me signals he doesn't think he's running for

1680
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 3: reelection or he's at right now. I mean, it's like

1681
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 3: you said, could he even win reelection?

1682
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1683
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 2: I think they've given him a lot of bandwidth to

1684
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 2: criticize the administration because they recognize the situation that he's

1685
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 2: in and they want him to run again because I

1686
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 2: think I think he's probably dead man walking in terms

1687
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 2: of getting re elected anyway. But if anyone could win

1688
01:20:58,360 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 2: the seat, he's like the only one that has a

1689
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 2: pre so I think they're willing to give him a

1690
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 2: fair amount of bandwidth, is my read.

1691
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 3: We'll see what they do for Republicans in that situation

1692
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 3: as they approach votes, which probably I'm guess gonna be

1693
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 3: around fourth of July.

1694
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 4: So we'll follow it all.

1695
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:19,759
Speaker 2: Shall we get to this very interesting story with regard

1696
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 2: to the surgeon general. Okay, I'll start from where we are,

1697
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 2: and then we'll back up and do some of the

1698
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 2: backstory here. So put Trump's announcement here up on the screen.

1699
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 2: He pulled his previous surgeon general nominee and has now

1700
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 2: announced doctor Casey Means to be nominated our next Surgeon

1701
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 2: General of the USA. Casey has impeccable MAHA credentials and

1702
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: will work closely. This is what Trump said with our

1703
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 2: wonderful Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Junior,

1704
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 2: to ensure a successful implementation of our agenda in order

1705
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 2: to reverse the chronic disease epidemic and ensure great health

1706
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 2: in the future for all Americans. Her academic achievements, together

1707
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 2: with her life's work, are absolutely outstanding. Doctor Casey Means

1708
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 2: has the potential to be one of the finest surgeon

1709
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 2: generals in US history. Congratulations to Casey. Secretary Kennedy looks

1710
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 2: forward to working with doctor Jeannette. I don't know how

1711
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: to say her last name, do you in another capacity

1712
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 2: at HHS, thank you for your attention to this matter.

1713
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 2: Doctor Jeanette. I'll just call her, sorry that I don't

1714
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 2: have the pronunciation correct. Haven't been married to Mike Waltz.

1715
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 11: So good.

1716
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 5: There's another. Just gotta gotta love that one.

1717
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,879
Speaker 4: So a way Shakespeare. This is Shakespeare.

1718
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 5: It truly is.

1719
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 2: So she and the drama is as of yet unresolved.

1720
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 2: There are many acts I guess to go in this

1721
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 2: in this drama, but doctor Jeanette gets pulled after criticism

1722
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 2: from Laura Lumer and others.

1723
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 3: I think who by the way now says she's been

1724
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,640
Speaker 3: hired by Donald Trump himself about four times, but his

1725
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 3: staff has always thwarted lumour the hiring process.

1726
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 2: Really I just saw this, Okay, interesting, So anyway, the

1727
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 2: original one gets pulled because of you know, backlash from

1728
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:01,720
Speaker 2: Lumer and others, you know, feeling like she had been

1729
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 2: she was too pro vaccine, that sort of thing, right,

1730
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 2: She was like too sort of normal in terms of

1731
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 2: the medical establishment. So they didn't like her, so they

1732
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 2: pulled her. There was also some question about her LinkedIn

1733
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 2: page said she graduated from a different medical school than

1734
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 2: she actually graduated from something like that as well. Okay,

1735
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 2: so she gets pulled and doctor Casey Means gets put in.

1736
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to leave it to you to explain a

1737
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 2: little bit about Casey Means and her brother, Callie Means,

1738
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 2: who kind of came out of nowhere to be huge.

1739
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's fair to call them health influencers.

1740
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 4: You know, they make the.

1741
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 2: Podcast Circuit Rogan Tucker very tied in with the MAHA

1742
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 2: movement and so and you know, have voiced all of

1743
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 2: the right skepticisms of vaccines.

1744
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 5: Will show you Joe Rogan clip where.

1745
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,600
Speaker 2: Casey Means is saying, like, you know, vaccines may cause autism,

1746
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 2: the same nonsense that RFK Junior pedals and is aggressively pushing.

1747
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 5: With his you know, his study that he's conducting.

1748
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 2: That seems he's already come up with the answer of

1749
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,639
Speaker 2: what he wants that study on autism ultimately to say.

1750
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 2: So that's kind of the world that she comes out of, Emily.

1751
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 3: So I think maybe a good place to begin is

1752
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 3: with this clip of Calli and Casey Means on Joe

1753
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 3: Rogan's show.

1754
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:17,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and actually Robert F.

1755
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 3: Kennedy Junior told people to watch their parents on Joe

1756
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 3: Rogan Show kind of held it up as a good

1757
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:27,560
Speaker 3: example or a good explainer primer on what MAHA is

1758
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 3: all about. So if we roll this stop from Rogan

1759
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 3: it's C seven, you'll get a good flavor of sort

1760
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 3: of what they're all about. And we can go a

1761
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:38,440
Speaker 3: little bit deeper given that she's now nominated for surgeon General.

1762
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 4: So let's go ahead and roll C seven.

1763
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,799
Speaker 13: Yeah, I bet that one vaccine probably isn't causing autism,

1764
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 13: but what about the twenty that they're getting before eighteen months? Like,

1765
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 13: we don't look at it in synergistic you know, And

1766
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 13: so that's a big problem. And this is where the

1767
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 13: cult of the science, and I say the science specifically,

1768
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,840
Speaker 13: because science is beautiful. Using the scientific med and using

1769
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 13: that way of inquiry into the natural world is a

1770
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 13: beautiful art, but weaponizing papers that are often bought for

1771
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 13: or corrupted, and you know, they the leaders of some

1772
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 13: of our key medical journals have actually even said that

1773
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 13: fifty percent of scientific research that published ends up being wrong.

1774
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 13: So it's bought for, corrupted, or wrong. We rely on this,

1775
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 13: and if one interesting trend that we're seeing in our

1776
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 13: world is that if we do choose to put dots together.

1777
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 13: Use our intuition, are God given intuition. Anything other than

1778
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 13: this particular way of examining things, you are dangerous. You

1779
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 13: are dangerous. And I think that that's something we need

1780
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 13: to really question, you know, I think especially as a woman,

1781
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 13: like and I'm thinking about having kids soon, I'm like

1782
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 13: thinking about like, wow, like I I have the ability

1783
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 13: in my body to like build a human three D

1784
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 13: print a human, pulling a soul to that human. I

1785
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 13: don't need a peer reviewed study or a textbook to

1786
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 13: tell me how to do that. Our body and our

1787
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 13: intuition and our minds and the subtle things happening inside

1788
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 13: is are important. They are incredible. We have now been

1789
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 13: told that, like you can't trust it, and you are

1790
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 13: dangerous if you do that. And I think that's one

1791
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,280
Speaker 13: of the reasons why I think parents are very frustrated

1792
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 13: right now is because parenting. I'm not a parent yet,

1793
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 13: but you know CALLI is. But like, you know, when

1794
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,840
Speaker 13: we're being told now that parents are the enemy for

1795
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 13: using their own judgment about their families and kids, like,

1796
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 13: I think that's probably it's deeply frustrating to people. And

1797
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 13: that's basically what we're being asked to do.

1798
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 3: So I think that clip actually encapsulates a lot of

1799
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 3: caliing Casey means in just the two minutes.

1800
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 12: That you heard.

1801
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 3: So to Crystal's point, they did kind of come out

1802
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 3: of nowhere.

1803
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 4: CALLI means and I always confuse their names, by the way, Yeah,

1804
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 4: CALLI means the man. They're brother and sister, So CALLI

1805
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 4: means the brother.

1806
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 3: Sort of has this whistleblowing story of how he used

1807
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 3: to be a pharma not pharmer, I'm sorry, a food lobbyist,

1808
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 3: so working for some of these like awful corrupt big food.

1809
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 4: Companies like Coca Cola.

1810
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 3: Coca Cola, right, and so he started doing like kind

1811
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 3: of whistleblower threads on X and that started to get

1812
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 3: a lot of attention.

1813
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 4: Now, his sister nominee for Surgeon General.

1814
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 3: Her personal story and she explains it on that Rogan

1815
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 3: episode basically is that she went to med school and

1816
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 3: I think it was Stanford prestigious, and I think they

1817
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 3: come from a pretty well off background.

1818
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 2: I think their dad is also a doctor something like that. Right,

1819
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 2: And you wrote some book that Laura Lumer did not

1820
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 2: like about gay people.

1821
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 4: Yes, it was about a flamming kid.

1822
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 5: I don't know what that's about anyway.

1823
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 3: Laura Lumber said that it was about trans people, but

1824
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 3: apparently it's just about gay people.

1825
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 4: We don't even need to get into it.

1826
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 3: But she went to med school, did five years of

1827
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:57,560
Speaker 3: a residency and then dropped out because she says she

1828
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 3: had this sort of awakening as to how and this

1829
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 3: is very popular Maha will.

1830
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 4: It's very popular argument.

1831
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:07,679
Speaker 3: Our medical system is obsessively treating symptoms for the sake

1832
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 3: of profits that go to pharma ag big food and

1833
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 3: end up corrupting the medical system, rather than treating causes

1834
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 3: in ways that don't benefit pharma.

1835
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 4: So ozembic is a good example. They talk a lot

1836
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:21,560
Speaker 4: about it.

1837
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 3: Instead of asking people to spend more time cutting out

1838
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 3: sugars or carbs, or you know, doing a lot of

1839
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 3: physical activity, we.

1840
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 4: Just give people ozempic.

1841
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 3: And whether or not that's true, that's the argument that

1842
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 3: they have. I think there's actually a lot of truth

1843
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 3: to their criticisms and actually to RFK Junior's criticisms of

1844
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 3: the corruption in the system. But do they then pedal

1845
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 3: appropriate solutions. That's where the question becomes much more significant.

1846
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:53,800
Speaker 2: It's very well and diplomatically put because well, and here's

1847
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 2: here's the thing.

1848
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 5: You know why, Yes, yes, how I feel about these people?

1849
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 2: Yes, because she Cali means an Arcade Junior and the

1850
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 2: Maha crew, like, they'll talk a lot about the profit

1851
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:08,320
Speaker 2: motive and the corruption in the system, et cetera. But

1852
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 2: then your solution has nothing to do with getting the

1853
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,639
Speaker 2: profit motive out of the healthcare system.

1854
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 5: And in fact, both Cali and Casey Means have.

1855
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 2: Their own for profit healthcare companies that their solutions, whether

1856
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 2: it's to COVID or anything else, just happened to bolster

1857
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 2: their own it's convenient profit making direction. It's like, well,

1858
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 2: how what if we applied the same analysis you're applying

1859
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 2: over here?

1860
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:33,560
Speaker 5: What if we apply that to you?

1861
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 4: What is that?

1862
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 11: You know?

1863
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:36,640
Speaker 5: What does that come out looking like?

1864
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 2: So in any case, these two individuals apparently a lot

1865
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 2: more controversial in some of the MAGA and Maha world.

1866
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:47,679
Speaker 5: Yes than I really expected.

1867
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 3: This was like overturning a rock and seeing beneath the

1868
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:55,639
Speaker 3: surface that there's all kinds of like bugs fighting each other. Yeah,

1869
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 3: and I don't mean that that wasn't to imply people

1870
01:29:57,840 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 3: or bugs. It's just to imply that, like beneath the

1871
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,679
Speaker 3: surface of Maha, there's this raging battle for the soul

1872
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 3: of Maha because the close close stakeholders have like this

1873
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 3: is a very tight knit circle.

1874
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:10,640
Speaker 4: I think it's a fair way to say, not just

1875
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 4: online but offline.

1876
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 3: A lot of these people know each other, work with

1877
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:16,439
Speaker 3: each other now and RFK Junior is the figurehead of

1878
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 3: the movement. A lot of people have personal relationships with

1879
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,560
Speaker 3: RFK Junior. And we didn't have time to put this

1880
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 3: in the rundown because it just kind of this was

1881
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 3: all happening last night. But doctor Jack Cruz, who was

1882
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 3: really big in Maha circles, and you know he's been

1883
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 3: on podcasts with like Andrew Cuberman, I think before is

1884
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 3: Maha guy. He says, quote, I have it on firm

1885
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 3: authority that Kelly Victory, another MAHA figurehead, was Bobby's pick

1886
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 3: last weekend for surge in general. Kennedy called people Monday

1887
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,719
Speaker 3: and said Jeannette was out and Kelly was the front runner.

1888
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 3: In a phone call to Kelly from RFK, all caps

1889
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 3: this means Bobby has no juice, no power.

1890
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 4: DJT.

1891
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 3: Donald Trump allowed Susie Wilds to put in the World

1892
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 3: Economic Forum and fabians inside the gates.

1893
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 4: So this is not a random nobody.

1894
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 3: This is somebody in Maha world who's like pretty significant

1895
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:15,679
Speaker 3: and is already staunchly against this nomination for surgeon General.

1896
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 4: The meanses have been very close the means. The meanses

1897
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 4: have been very close to Bobby Kennedy. Like that's obvious.

1898
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:22,560
Speaker 4: Everyone kind of knows that.

1899
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, But they come across to a lot of people

1900
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 3: in Maha world as suspicious and her nomination when they

1901
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 3: thought that their other ally Calli victory had it just

1902
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,560
Speaker 3: graded on these people who were already very suspicious of

1903
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 3: Calli and Casey Means. They do think the story is

1904
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:41,880
Speaker 3: a bit convenient that both of them sort of dropped

1905
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:48,679
Speaker 3: out of these prestigious gigs medical school residency lobbying work

1906
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:55,000
Speaker 3: suddenly started infiltrating Bobby Kennedy world, which is quite interesting.

1907
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 3: You can imagine those circles are filled with people from

1908
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 3: all walks of life, including you know, like Intel world,

1909
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,720
Speaker 3: including like quirky science world. It just got to be

1910
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 3: the strangest place to go to Thanksgiving dinner, right, can

1911
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:16,639
Speaker 3: you imagine zoea nuzzy No, actually, people from Glossy magazine,

1912
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 3: like it's just crazy stuff.

1913
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:21,639
Speaker 4: So they're very suspicious of the means.

1914
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 3: They see them as people who may be compromised by

1915
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:30,720
Speaker 3: the political establishment, and this just set that into hyperdrive.

1916
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:33,720
Speaker 2: So this is the one that was really shocking to be.

1917
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 2: Nicole Shanahan, who was K Junior's vice presidential pick and

1918
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 2: has been She has said some things that she was

1919
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 2: nervous about, but she's as far as I know, really

1920
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:47,799
Speaker 2: held back on any significant criticism of him or AJJS

1921
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 2: or the Trump administration. She tweeted this, Yes, it's very

1922
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,800
Speaker 2: strange with regards to Casey means being put in very

1923
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:56,599
Speaker 2: strange doesn't make any sense.

1924
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 5: I was promised that if I support.

1925
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 2: RFK Junior in his Senate confirmation, that neither of these

1926
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:07,879
Speaker 2: siblings would be working under AHHS or in an appointment,

1927
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 2: and that people much more qualified would be I don't

1928
01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 2: know if RFK very clearly lied to me or.

1929
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 5: What is going on.

1930
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 2: It has been clear in recent conversations that he is

1931
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 2: reporting to someone regularly who is controlling his decisions, and

1932
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 2: it isn't President Trump. With regards to siblings, there is

1933
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 2: something very artificial and aggressive about them, almost like they

1934
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 2: were bred and raised Manchurian assets. There is a lot

1935
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 2: going on in that one tweet. I mean, first of all,

1936
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 2: she has to be persuaded to support RFK Junior in

1937
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 2: a Senate confirmation hearing.

1938
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 5: That's news in and of itself.

1939
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: And one of the pledges that was made is that

1940
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,680
Speaker 2: Casey and Cally Means would be nowhere in this administration

1941
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 2: the way right, because to your point, RFK Junior talked

1942
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,640
Speaker 2: about them a lot on their campaign trail, you know,

1943
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 2: in big speeches. He would make a point of shouting out,

1944
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 2: you know, Calle Means in particular. And so the fact

1945
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 2: that this is a little behind the curtain of behind

1946
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,680
Speaker 2: the scenes, she wants nothing to do with them, is

1947
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 2: actively seeking out pledges that neither one of them will

1948
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: have anything to do with this administration, and is now

1949
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 2: saying not only maybe he lied to me or maybe

1950
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 2: you know someone is is he has no juice, someone

1951
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 2: regularly is controlling his decisions, and it isn't President Trump.

1952
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 2: So that is there is a whole lot there, And

1953
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 2: I think it also comes in the context of, like

1954
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:33,720
Speaker 2: we were saying before, as the administration becomes more unpopular,

1955
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 2: you're going to see more things like that. You're going

1956
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 2: to see more cracks emerge, more people coming out who

1957
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:40,640
Speaker 2: are willing to be critical who were not willing to

1958
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 2: be critical before.

1959
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 4: That's a good point. And by the way, paranoia breeds paranoia.

1960
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 3: So when I mentioned like Intel a couple of minutes ago,

1961
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 3: the reason I say that is Robert of Kenneth Junior

1962
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:56,080
Speaker 3: is somebody who is incredibly critical of the CIA for

1963
01:34:56,240 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 3: obvious reasons and is like actively taking steps to you know,

1964
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:04,960
Speaker 3: get these files released that obviously the intelligence world does

1965
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 3: not want released. And we could have a separate debate

1966
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 3: and segment all about what's actually happening in that space.

1967
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 3: But the bottom line is he's obviously somebody who would

1968
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:16,639
Speaker 3: be a target for concern and surveillance.

1969
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 4: From that world. And you see how that is.

1970
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 3: You know, that's pretty pretty much people agree on that, Like,

1971
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,560
Speaker 3: it's not a that's not crazy, and it's not a

1972
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory. It's just yes, of course they would be

1973
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 3: keeping track and keeping tabs on someone like that, especially

1974
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 3: now that he's in a really big position of power

1975
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:35,439
Speaker 3: in the United States government.

1976
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 11: Now.

1977
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:38,880
Speaker 4: On the other hand, because some of.

1978
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 3: That stuff is obviously just sort of true logical common sense,

1979
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 3: you end up with paranoid people finding other paranoid people.

1980
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 3: It's sort of a circle of paranoia that is trying

1981
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 3: to be a governing coalition and that is incredibly difficult

1982
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:59,000
Speaker 3: to hold together, just in a practical sense, like not

1983
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 3: even based on the of Maha, just practically really hard.

1984
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 3: I think this we saw this happening actually at the Pentagon,

1985
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:07,680
Speaker 3: where they were so paranoid about leakers that someone who

1986
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:11,679
Speaker 3: was trying not to leak ended up getting like push

1987
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:13,519
Speaker 3: up of the Pentagon for leaking, even when he was

1988
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,479
Speaker 3: trying not to leak. Because the paranoia is so intense,

1989
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 3: and I think we're seeing the same thing happen in

1990
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 3: Maha world. But that's where just my last point is

1991
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:25,519
Speaker 3: the language about born in bred Manchurian candidates in the

1992
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:28,839
Speaker 3: Shanahan tweet is and she calls it quote very strange.

1993
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:34,559
Speaker 3: It is I think alluding to and generating a sense

1994
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 3: of paranoia in Maha world, which is already conspiratorial.

1995
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:41,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and such a great point, not in.

1996
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:43,920
Speaker 3: Ways that are entire like you, I think there are

1997
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:45,600
Speaker 3: some really suspicious things about Robert F.

1998
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 4: Kennedy. Is the shooting of Robert F. Kennedy. I don't

1999
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:48,919
Speaker 4: think that's insane.

2000
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:53,799
Speaker 3: But if your gateway into politics is from those issues,

2001
01:36:54,280 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 3: then you end up sort of in these paranoid firing

2002
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 3: circles like Mexicans Standard spider Man means.

2003
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 2: I saw Mike Flynn is now like who's who was?

2004
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 2: Like the number one QAnon hero is now like some

2005
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 2: QAnon people think.

2006
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,439
Speaker 5: That he's Oh boy, you know, I did came about

2007
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 5: some other.

2008
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: Conspiracy in which he's the villain. So that speaks to

2009
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:17,280
Speaker 2: the dynamic you're talking about. I just pulled up Laura

2010
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,680
Speaker 2: Lumer's Twitter feed and she is going in. Oh is

2011
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:22,040
Speaker 2: she She is going in on Casey means.

2012
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's fighting with Charlie Kirk about it.

2013
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 2: Ooh, let me just I'm just gonna read you one

2014
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:31,000
Speaker 2: of her posts because it's interesting. She says President Trump's

2015
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:33,360
Speaker 2: pick for US SARCH. In general, Casey Means said she

2016
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:37,160
Speaker 2: prays to inanimate objects, communicates with spirit mediums, uses shrooms

2017
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 2: as plant medicine, and talks to trees. She also doesn't

2018
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 2: even have an active medical license.

2019
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:42,960
Speaker 5: That is actually true.

2020
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 2: The inmates are running the asylum. This is literally from

2021
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,000
Speaker 2: one of Casey means newsletters. I had the entire page

2022
01:37:48,120 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 2: archived and took screenshot. She was just chosen by President

2023
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 2: Trump to service the next US search in general, take

2024
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:55,240
Speaker 2: a look at this section on her newsletter. Casey Means

2025
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,559
Speaker 2: said she was looking for romance. She would do shrooms,

2026
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 2: talk to trees, participate in full moon ceremonies, and to

2027
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 2: inanimate objects with a spiritual medium. So basically, the new

2028
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 2: Surge in general is a total crackpot, a shroom consumer,

2029
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 2: and she talks to trees and doesn't even have an

2030
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:10,599
Speaker 2: active medical license. She's making me like Casey Means more.

2031
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 4: I was just going to say, you know who we

2032
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:15,639
Speaker 4: need to have on in all seriousness is Ryan?

2033
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 3: Well, Ryan, Yes, we should have Ryan and Mary Anne

2034
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:23,680
Speaker 3: talk about the merits of this type of WU as

2035
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,360
Speaker 3: Casey Means has put it, like she's openly said it

2036
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 3: embraced the wo wou and just all of this stuff

2037
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 3: is unfairly derided by like snobbish elites. There's there's no

2038
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 3: question about it. Now, does the should the surgeon in

2039
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:39,000
Speaker 3: general be somebody who's writing about openly talking to trees

2040
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 3: on her hikes? You know, Crystal, I'm less firm on

2041
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 3: that one. I think probably no, Probably about do you have.

2042
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 5: An active medical license? How do you feel in that one.

2043
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 4: Don't love that either. Don't love that either.

2044
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:54,920
Speaker 2: So her conclusion here is again is never Trump's fault,

2045
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:57,479
Speaker 2: another failure by the geniuses who work for Trump on his.

2046
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 5: Non existent vetting team. It's the vetting team's fault.

2047
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 2: I guess there isn't a single conservative doctor in America

2048
01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 2: doesn't have a history of being a Marxist tree. We

2049
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 2: are so doomed, aren't we, and then receives so uh.

2050
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,559
Speaker 3: If producer Mac just texted, the trees can talk if

2051
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:12,840
Speaker 3: you believe that's right?

2052
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:18,320
Speaker 4: Yes, see what happened.

2053
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:22,120
Speaker 3: We learned today as we were prepping this segment. I

2054
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:24,080
Speaker 3: don't want to take Ryan's thunder. You can ask him

2055
01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 3: about this tomorrow, Crystal. But he is a certified or

2056
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:30,960
Speaker 3: former certified Reiki instructor. So we're not anti WU here

2057
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:31,759
Speaker 3: at breaking points.

2058
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 4: No, not at all, not at all.

2059
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 2: But I guess to make the political point, there have

2060
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:43,280
Speaker 2: long been tensions and contradictions within the coalition which elected Trump,

2061
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 2: and it is true that like the Marian is a

2062
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 2: perfect example of this.

2063
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 5: The like WU alternative.

2064
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:54,680
Speaker 2: Medicine hippie, like the anti vax thing used to be

2065
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:59,640
Speaker 2: like rich La, people's true we're running in some of

2066
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:02,920
Speaker 2: the same you know, social circles that used to be

2067
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:07,719
Speaker 2: on the left, and so you know, when that group

2068
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 2: gets subsumed into the MAGA movement, there are going to

2069
01:40:14,280 --> 01:40:19,400
Speaker 2: be some you know, some beliefs that clash. And in

2070
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:22,080
Speaker 2: any case, I don't know there's I'm still I think

2071
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:24,080
Speaker 2: we're just still stratching the surface of this one. I

2072
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 2: really hope Laura Lumer comes on the show tomorrow so

2073
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 2: I can hear more from her about what she thinks

2074
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:28,240
Speaker 2: I do too.

2075
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 4: We're going way too long on this.

2076
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,439
Speaker 3: But the final point, I mean, because like Alex Jones

2077
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 3: was popular on the left after nine to eleven because

2078
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:36,799
Speaker 3: of his conspiracy theories, and that's another coalition or another

2079
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:39,120
Speaker 3: coaltion that's been subsumed.

2080
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:41,200
Speaker 4: Into the broader Magat coalition and is really paranoid.

2081
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 3: So again, like you put all of these eccentric puzzle

2082
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:49,120
Speaker 3: pieces together and it's really hard to actually govern. And

2083
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 3: again it's not that there aren't good reasons to question

2084
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 3: government and elites. It's just as a working coalition, practically

2085
01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:59,600
Speaker 3: really hard to have so much eccentricity and distrust.

2086
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I can't remember who wrote Maybe it

2087
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,200
Speaker 2: was Naomi Klein, I'm not sure, wrote about like a

2088
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 2: crank realignment where it's like, yeah, all the various conspiracy

2089
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 2: branches Naomi Woolf, Yeah, also, yeah, exactly, all sort of

2090
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 2: like coalesced within the Republican movement, and sometimes those conspiracies

2091
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:19,800
Speaker 2: clash in important ways, and I think that's part of

2092
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 2: what's playing out here. That's right, Okay, let's go ahead

2093
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 2: and get to the latest. With regard to deportations, this

2094
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:30,479
Speaker 2: is another one that I guess it's a little bit

2095
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:33,240
Speaker 2: of a mystery at this point, although some pieces of

2096
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 2: it are significantly reported out, so it looks like the

2097
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:41,200
Speaker 2: Trump administration was, maybe still is planning on expanding their

2098
01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 2: worldwide foreign bolog deportation policy beyond El Salvador. Also to Libya.

2099
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:50,760
Speaker 2: President Trump was asked about this specifically. He says he

2100
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:53,040
Speaker 2: doesn't know. There's so many parts of his administration that

2101
01:41:53,080 --> 01:41:54,840
Speaker 2: he just has no idea about, apparently Emily.

2102
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:56,679
Speaker 5: And that may be the case.

2103
01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:59,040
Speaker 2: Actually, it may be the case that Stephen Miller is

2104
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:01,240
Speaker 2: just handling this sport folio and Trump is like, do

2105
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 2: whatever you want to do, and that's how things are going.

2106
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:06,559
Speaker 2: In any case, Let's take a listen to the president.

2107
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:11,599
Speaker 5: They're the questions, amnustriction sending mans to Libya.

2108
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 10: I don't know. You'll have to ask Homeland Security please,

2109
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 10: So doesn't know.

2110
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:19,960
Speaker 2: Seems like a kind of important piece for him to

2111
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:22,720
Speaker 2: have some insight into it at this point, but he

2112
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 2: claims he has no idea what's going on here.

2113
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 5: So let's put this up on the screen. This has

2114
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:27,800
Speaker 5: now sparked a.

2115
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 2: Court fight because you first had the New York Times

2116
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 2: and one other outlet I want to say it was

2117
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 2: Reuters reporting that the administration was planning on shipping some

2118
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:43,839
Speaker 2: migrants to Libya in an expansion of the El Salvador program,

2119
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:46,720
Speaker 2: and they you know, it's pretty well reported out.

2120
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:48,839
Speaker 5: We talked about a little bit on the show yesterday.

2121
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 2: Then lawyers started getting win from clients that they were

2122
01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 2: being transferred and they were being asked to sign papers

2123
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 2: that told them that you know, required them to agree

2124
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:08,800
Speaker 2: to getting deported to Libya. And most of the immigrants,

2125
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:10,800
Speaker 2: I think all of the immigrants who were receiving these

2126
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:14,840
Speaker 2: papers were from somewhere in Asia, different Asian countries that

2127
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 2: were being given these papers and being told you are

2128
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:21,479
Speaker 2: going to be you are going to be shipped to Libya.

2129
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 2: So let me read a little bit from that political

2130
01:43:24,240 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 2: report we just have up on the screen. The Trump

2131
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 2: administration's reported planned to hurriedly deport immigrants to war torn

2132
01:43:29,240 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 2: Libya would clearly violate an earlier court order barring such

2133
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,599
Speaker 2: summary deportations, a federal judge warned Wednesday. US District Judge

2134
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 2: Brian Murphy's assessment followed an emergency motion filed by lawyers

2135
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 2: for a group of Asian immigrants seeking to block a

2136
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 2: military flight that appeared to be on the verge of

2137
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 2: taking off from Texas, even as the two competing governments

2138
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:50,080
Speaker 2: that control portions of Libya rotally indicated they would reject

2139
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 2: deportation flights from the US. Libya remains divided after years

2140
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 2: of civil war, thanks to US controlled by a U

2141
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 2: unrecognized government in the West and basically a war lord

2142
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:01,520
Speaker 2: named Khalifa.

2143
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:03,639
Speaker 5: Haftar in the east. Half.

2144
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 2: Tar's son, Saddam Interesting, was in Washington last week meeting

2145
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:10,320
Speaker 2: with Trump administration officials.

2146
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:10,879
Speaker 5: Interesting.

2147
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 2: Libya has a number of detention facilities for refugees and migrants,

2148
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 2: which human rights groups have described as deplorable. I saw

2149
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:22,120
Speaker 2: others described it as a hellhole. Have warned that abuses

2150
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 2: are rampant, including torture, forced labor, and slavery. That's what

2151
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:32,680
Speaker 2: these Libyan prisons are known for. So effectively, you get

2152
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:34,680
Speaker 2: the New York Times report saying they're planning on dow

2153
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 2: This Marco Rubu had previously said they were going to

2154
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 2: expand beyond El Salvador, so fit with his comments. Then

2155
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:43,840
Speaker 2: you have Asian migrants being moved around and asked to

2156
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:47,320
Speaker 2: sign these papers telling them asking them to accept their

2157
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,560
Speaker 2: deportation to Libya. Lawyers intervene. They followed this file, this

2158
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:52,320
Speaker 2: emergency motion.

2159
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 5: There was also a.

2160
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 2: Flight that you know how you're able to look up

2161
01:44:56,680 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 2: scheduled flights. There was a flight that appeared to be

2162
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 2: the militi terry flight and then going to take these

2163
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:08,599
Speaker 2: migrants to Libya. So lawyers intervene. They have this hearing.

2164
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 2: The judge says, you can't do this. If you are

2165
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,640
Speaker 2: planning on doing this, this would violate prior orders. So

2166
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:17,719
Speaker 2: it's blocked for now. And then both of the Libyan

2167
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 2: governments are in this divided country are saying no, no, no,

2168
01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 2: we wouldn't accept deportation flights. But the son of the

2169
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,960
Speaker 2: warlord part of the government had met with Trump administration

2170
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:28,960
Speaker 2: officials last week.

2171
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 5: So that's kind of where we are.

2172
01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's apart from the political the Politoco article. They

2173
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 3: say they've also worked to reach potential agreements to the

2174
01:45:37,439 --> 01:45:40,240
Speaker 3: Trump administration with countries to detain people deported from the

2175
01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:42,719
Speaker 3: United States, similar to the agreement they reached with El Salvador.

2176
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:46,320
Speaker 3: And so when you factor that in the United States

2177
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 3: feels that it was getting a deal with the Seacott deportations,

2178
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:53,320
Speaker 3: but it was also helping to fund Bucala's prison expansion.

2179
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:56,280
Speaker 3: And so you could see how warlords in war torn

2180
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:59,879
Speaker 3: Libya would maybe see all of this money as potential

2181
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:03,320
Speaker 3: like I'm going to say jobs program, but that means

2182
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 3: you know, spoils program in like really corrupt countries and

2183
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:11,439
Speaker 3: all likely war torn corrupt countries. You can see where

2184
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 3: their motivations would would be, like we're going to actually

2185
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:19,560
Speaker 3: get more power and control in our own country with

2186
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 3: these deportations. I mean, it just the motivations on Libya's part. Uh,

2187
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:28,040
Speaker 3: there's just there's it's money. It seems pretty clearly that

2188
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:29,240
Speaker 3: it's money which puts.

2189
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:31,600
Speaker 2: In power because if you're in the midst of you

2190
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,680
Speaker 2: know what's effectively you know, a civil war. You want

2191
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 2: to bolster your position as the true legitimate government of

2192
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:39,920
Speaker 2: Libya with the US doing a deal with Trump the

2193
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:43,240
Speaker 2: Trump administration seems like a pretty solid.

2194
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:43,680
Speaker 4: Way to achieve that.

2195
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:46,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, I'm looking enough how many people

2196
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:49,680
Speaker 3: are registered lobbyists for Libya right now? I just went

2197
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 3: the fair doac of because that's typically how these sort

2198
01:46:53,240 --> 01:46:56,760
Speaker 3: of deals get greased. You you have some lobbyists whose

2199
01:46:56,840 --> 01:47:00,080
Speaker 3: client is one of these governments, and they make the

2200
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:03,599
Speaker 3: introduction and then it goes from there. But Gunn has

2201
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 3: talked about this, Grinnell has talked about this, how you

2202
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:09,799
Speaker 3: actually can't deport people to prisons with particular conditions.

2203
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 4: You have to have conditions that are the same that

2204
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:15,160
Speaker 4: are like in compliance with US. Yeah.

2205
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:17,880
Speaker 2: This was I mean, this was established during the War

2206
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:21,799
Speaker 2: on Terror, where it was like, no, you cannot deport

2207
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 2: You can't send people to Egypt knowing that Egypt will

2208
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:26,680
Speaker 2: torture them and then be like, well, we didn't torture them,

2209
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,240
Speaker 2: even though you know that, you know this other country

2210
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:33,280
Speaker 2: is going to torture them. It's the same law applies here.

2211
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:36,040
Speaker 2: You can't say, well, you know, well it's up to Bucali.

2212
01:47:36,120 --> 01:47:39,599
Speaker 2: What he does with them. No, you know the record

2213
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:42,320
Speaker 2: of these prisons, you know the record of these prisons

2214
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:44,760
Speaker 2: in Libya which are described as a hell rife with

2215
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:48,360
Speaker 2: you know, slavery and sexual abuse as well, by the way,

2216
01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:53,240
Speaker 2: and just horrific, every horrific condition you can possibly imagine.

2217
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:56,960
Speaker 5: So that appears to have been the plan.

2218
01:47:57,160 --> 01:48:00,720
Speaker 2: Now it's interesting that both Libyan governments are denied that

2219
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:04,519
Speaker 2: they would accept these deportation flights. That either could be

2220
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:09,000
Speaker 2: Cya with regard to domestic population that they feel would

2221
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 2: not you know, like this arrangement, or it could be

2222
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:14,840
Speaker 2: that the Trump administration asked them to say that they

2223
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 2: were not going to accept these deportation flights, because you know,

2224
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:19,760
Speaker 2: when you look at the it looks quite clear that

2225
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:23,320
Speaker 2: this was there. They were planning to do this if

2226
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:25,640
Speaker 2: they were not immediately blocked by the courts. They were

2227
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:30,679
Speaker 2: moving aggressively, you know, quite hastily to move these Asian migrants,

2228
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:33,720
Speaker 2: to get them to sign off these papers to you know,

2229
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 2: they had the flight ready to go, and it's only

2230
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,280
Speaker 2: because the courts were able to intervene pretty quickly that

2231
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:41,799
Speaker 2: this was blocked. But I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't

2232
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:43,640
Speaker 2: say that this is off the table at all, So

2233
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:45,960
Speaker 2: we'll just we'll keep an eye on this one, and

2234
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:50,599
Speaker 2: certainly gives credence to what Marko Rubio had said previously

2235
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:53,800
Speaker 2: that they are looking beyond just El Salvador to other

2236
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:57,160
Speaker 2: countries around the world as well. Gouad and put D

2237
01:48:57,400 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 2: four up on the screen here too, guys, because we

2238
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 2: had just a couple of other updates we wanted to

2239
01:49:03,080 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 2: bring to you guys. So federal court, this is from

2240
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,080
Speaker 2: Prem Thaker. He says, a federal court has denied the

2241
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:12,080
Speaker 2: Trump administration's efforts to stop the transfer of Ramesa oz

2242
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:13,360
Speaker 2: Turk to Vermont.

2243
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:14,879
Speaker 5: This is the student who wrote.

2244
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 2: The ab ed and then was you know, arrested by

2245
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:20,759
Speaker 2: like six some of the masked agents of the state.

2246
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:24,720
Speaker 2: Court orders that she be there by May fourteenth. The

2247
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:28,360
Speaker 2: Trump administration was trying to keep her in Louisiana. She

2248
01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:31,400
Speaker 2: has been accused of no crime, just co writing a

2249
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:35,439
Speaker 2: campus op ed arguing for divestment. And this is really

2250
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:39,680
Speaker 2: significant because the administration was really judge shopping and that's

2251
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:42,479
Speaker 2: why they wanted her in Louisiana. So they were Khalil

2252
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 2: was as well, That's exactly right, and they thought they

2253
01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:47,320
Speaker 2: had a much better shot there and wasn't Kalil also

2254
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:50,880
Speaker 2: wasn't didn't he Khalil. It wasn't Khalil. It was the

2255
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:56,479
Speaker 2: other Madawi who was released in Vermont, Vermont. So I

2256
01:49:56,600 --> 01:49:58,599
Speaker 2: think that they, you know, they feel like the Vermont

2257
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 2: judges are going to be more fam verable to these cases.

2258
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:04,200
Speaker 2: So this is a really significant win for her in

2259
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:07,560
Speaker 2: attempting to be released. And you know, and and this

2260
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:11,680
Speaker 2: deportation based purely on speech to be denied. But you know,

2261
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 2: these cases are definitely going to go all the way

2262
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 2: up the chain, I would say to the Supreme Court

2263
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 2: is going to have to say whether or not Marco

2264
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:20,840
Speaker 2: Rubio can just decide based on your student oup ed

2265
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:23,680
Speaker 2: that you're a threat to our foreign policy and that

2266
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:26,320
Speaker 2: you're an anti Semite and therefore you must be deported.

2267
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:30,839
Speaker 2: That remains, you know, ultimately unresolved, but big, big temporary

2268
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,360
Speaker 2: win for her to be you know, force them to

2269
01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:34,360
Speaker 2: move her back to Vermont.

2270
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 3: Well, yes, and I think if the government this has

2271
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:40,280
Speaker 3: happened a little bit with kil mar Abrego Garcia, you

2272
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:42,680
Speaker 3: have to wonder why all of this information like the

2273
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:47,200
Speaker 3: video FROMUS traffic stop and in Tennessee and additional information

2274
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 3: about like the restraining order allegations of domestic abuse, which

2275
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 3: his wife has since walked back. It's very strange to

2276
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:59,960
Speaker 3: me that that stuff wasn't immediately presented when the media

2277
01:51:00,120 --> 01:51:02,760
Speaker 3: started to focus on the Abrego Garcia case. It first

2278
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:07,280
Speaker 3: happened with an Atlantic article actually, and the administration's response

2279
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 3: was piecemeal, and some people have speculated that what they

2280
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:13,679
Speaker 3: were trying to do was lay a trap for Democrats

2281
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:15,599
Speaker 3: like Chris van Holland who were going to El Salvador,

2282
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:18,760
Speaker 3: and then as after he's an l Salvador released the

2283
01:51:18,800 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 3: spousal abuse allegations. And the reason I'm connecting this to

2284
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 3: oz Turk is that I genuinely think if they had

2285
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:32,280
Speaker 3: any other information other than this obed, there's any other

2286
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:37,160
Speaker 3: evidence than this otbed that went into this woman's arrest

2287
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:41,240
Speaker 3: by thugs. Sorry, but that's what they're like, masked all

2288
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:44,080
Speaker 3: black wearing ice agents.

2289
01:51:44,120 --> 01:51:45,320
Speaker 5: We actually kidnapping.

2290
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 3: We still don't actually even know what government agency did this,

2291
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:52,479
Speaker 3: and so if we if they had more information, I

2292
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 3: think we would know it. At this point, I don't

2293
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:59,080
Speaker 3: actually think the administration was strategically dripping out information on

2294
01:51:59,160 --> 01:52:01,680
Speaker 3: Abrego Garcia. I think they're they're just shooting first and

2295
01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:03,720
Speaker 3: asking questions later. Yeah, and flying by the state of

2296
01:52:03,720 --> 01:52:06,200
Speaker 3: their pants. And so again, I think if there was

2297
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:11,719
Speaker 3: more evidence that oz Turk was like a reasonable candidate

2298
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:15,040
Speaker 3: for this kind of deportation on some sort of actual

2299
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 3: hamas operative or exactly right right right, then we would

2300
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:20,960
Speaker 3: know it by now. And literally nothing in her case,

2301
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:24,599
Speaker 3: like nothing has come out. They had that court filing

2302
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:29,600
Speaker 3: in the case of other Vermont Madawi, Yeah, they had

2303
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:33,200
Speaker 3: that court filing about the gun store clerk that came out.

2304
01:52:34,160 --> 01:52:36,520
Speaker 5: It took them a while story, by the way, but anyway.

2305
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,920
Speaker 3: It was a wild but anyway, they at least have

2306
01:52:40,400 --> 01:52:43,519
Speaker 3: the story. They at least have that allegation. And in

2307
01:52:43,600 --> 01:52:45,640
Speaker 3: this case, there's been absolutely nothing over the course of

2308
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:47,559
Speaker 3: more than a month now since her arrest.

2309
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing, And she really has been one of the

2310
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 2: cases that has captured people's attention because it is first

2311
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:57,920
Speaker 2: of all, we have the video. Second of all, it

2312
01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:00,640
Speaker 2: is so preposterous the idea that you would write a

2313
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:05,560
Speaker 2: notp ed for a student newspaper and be disappeared and

2314
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:09,320
Speaker 2: vanished and you know, disappeared into Louisiana and attempted to

2315
01:53:09,479 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 2: be deported just over that.

2316
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:13,680
Speaker 3: Well not a crazy ap at either, like disagree with it,

2317
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 3: but not like an actual antisemitic screen.

2318
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just like, you know, politely calling for

2319
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:23,759
Speaker 2: divestment from, you know, by the universities. It's just really

2320
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:27,560
Speaker 2: standard stuff in terms of basic campus activism.

2321
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:31,720
Speaker 5: And yeah, so I think I think you're right about that.

2322
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,120
Speaker 2: I saw some speculation also, like oh, maybe there's something

2323
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:36,200
Speaker 2: else that we don't know about it. It's like, I

2324
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:38,000
Speaker 2: do think we would know at this they would have

2325
01:53:38,080 --> 01:53:40,320
Speaker 2: dug something up if they there was anything to.

2326
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:41,080
Speaker 5: Dig up whatsoever.

2327
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:43,760
Speaker 2: So in any case, that's a significant win for her.

2328
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,360
Speaker 2: Just one last piece here, just to keep an eye on,

2329
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:49,080
Speaker 2: in terms of the conditions in our own detention centers,

2330
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:52,560
Speaker 2: which are wildly overstretched and overcrowded.

2331
01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 5: Put this up on the screen.

2332
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:56,800
Speaker 2: We've had a fairly significant number of migrants who have

2333
01:53:56,920 --> 01:54:00,479
Speaker 2: died in custody during Trump's first one hundred days. These

2334
01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:03,880
Speaker 2: are still under investigation, so in many instances we don't

2335
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:08,479
Speaker 2: know the details of what happened, whether they had pre

2336
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 2: existing conditions that contributed to these deaths, but certainly something

2337
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:16,120
Speaker 2: to keep an eye on. Seven migrants have died while

2338
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 2: in the custody of immigration police or Ice. One woman

2339
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,799
Speaker 2: in particular, Blaze, and two other migrants dide in Florida,

2340
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:25,040
Speaker 2: one died in Arizona, another in Missouri, went in Texas,

2341
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:27,720
Speaker 2: one more in Puerto Rico. Individuals raged in age from

2342
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 2: twenty seven to fifty five, came from different corners of

2343
01:54:30,439 --> 01:54:32,840
Speaker 2: the globe, embarked on the odyssey the US for various reasons,

2344
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 2: through various means, but ultimately ended up in the same place,

2345
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:38,560
Speaker 2: imprisoned in an infamous network of migrant detention centers, denounced

2346
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:41,880
Speaker 2: for the mistreatment and conditions. So one other piece to

2347
01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:44,520
Speaker 2: keep them an eye on is even as we focused

2348
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 2: on the conditions in seacatt focused on now the conditions

2349
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:48,880
Speaker 2: in Libyan what that would potentially look like.

2350
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:49,560
Speaker 4: You also have.

2351
01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:54,600
Speaker 2: Allegations, significant allegations of mistreatment and lack of sufficient care

2352
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:56,360
Speaker 2: in the detention centers here as well.

2353
01:54:58,880 --> 01:55:01,520
Speaker 3: I still look at these k I think one of

2354
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:05,440
Speaker 3: the big questions is whether this rate is outpacing what

2355
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:08,040
Speaker 3: we've seen before. That's one of the questions that the

2356
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:11,440
Speaker 3: Trump administration is going to face. A lot of migrants are,

2357
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:15,080
Speaker 3: for understandable reasons, in poor health, and it's obviously incumbent

2358
01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:17,960
Speaker 3: on the US you know, this is part of the

2359
01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 3: problem with the law that people. I don't mean that's

2360
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:22,800
Speaker 3: the problem with a lot. I mean it's a problem

2361
01:55:22,840 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 3: for providing health treatment to people. The law says you

2362
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 3: do have to detain people while their asylum cases are

2363
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:31,840
Speaker 3: heard out. The Biden administration actually found ways to not

2364
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,200
Speaker 3: do that, which is part of people like my criticism

2365
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 3: of them. But when you detain people, then that does

2366
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 3: create a huge burden on the health system because you

2367
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 3: actually have to attend to their well being, and so

2368
01:55:45,160 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 3: to let that sort of drop in the priority list

2369
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:53,400
Speaker 3: is obviously that should be a huge, huge area of

2370
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 3: concern for DHS and anyone who's overseeing these facilities.

2371
01:55:57,120 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 4: Who are absolutely crowded.

2372
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:03,880
Speaker 3: But are they then redetaining people for the sake of

2373
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:07,240
Speaker 3: deportation at a rate that allows them to provide adequate

2374
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:09,880
Speaker 3: medical oversight a big question for them going forward.

2375
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's turn to what's going on in the crypto world.

2376
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 2: You know, favorite favorite topic of mine here, Emily, I

2377
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:23,080
Speaker 2: still am not over the fact that Trump launched and

2378
01:56:23,160 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 2: then his wife launched these meme coins days.

2379
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:28,360
Speaker 5: Before I mean literally like a day before he.

2380
01:56:28,440 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 3: Was inauguryan it is Hunter Biden's art on sterils.

2381
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:34,560
Speaker 5: I mean Hunter Biden's art could not have imagined.

2382
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:38,240
Speaker 4: I mean Hunter Biden's damn it, I should have done that.

2383
01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have I have a friend. I don't think

2384
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:43,160
Speaker 2: he'll mind me sharing the story. I have a friend

2385
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 2: who was convicted of He ran for state Senate in

2386
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 2: Missouri Congress in Missouri. Yeah, and he was convicted of

2387
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:55,840
Speaker 2: he was coordinating with the super pac. It was the

2388
01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 2: most penny anti shit you could possibly imagine. But the

2389
01:56:58,360 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 2: government really wanted to wrot the book at him an

2390
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 2: example of him, and the Karnahan's ers were very powerful

2391
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,720
Speaker 2: Missouri hated his guts and so anyway, he gets sent

2392
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:09,360
Speaker 2: to prison for a year and his fellow inmates were like, well,

2393
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:11,120
Speaker 2: what did you you know? How much money did you

2394
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:12,800
Speaker 2: get out of this kiving is like literally nothing? And

2395
01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:15,560
Speaker 2: they're like, what's wrong with you? Like, if you're gonna

2396
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 2: do something and end up here, you may as well

2397
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,480
Speaker 2: at least like really properly better. And that's how what

2398
01:57:20,560 --> 01:57:22,200
Speaker 2: I keep thinking about with regard to the like the

2399
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:25,040
Speaker 2: Hunter Biden, the Nancy Pelosi insider trading, all this shit

2400
01:57:25,120 --> 01:57:31,200
Speaker 2: looks like nothing compared to the billions that they're collecting

2401
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:36,280
Speaker 2: through this these meme coins, through their development properties around

2402
01:57:36,360 --> 01:57:40,160
Speaker 2: the world. I mean, it really boggles the mind and

2403
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:43,200
Speaker 2: is in my mind one of the top examples of

2404
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:45,080
Speaker 2: how we just are not a functioning society.

2405
01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:47,800
Speaker 5: Agree the fact that this just happens and everyone just

2406
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:48,200
Speaker 5: moves on.

2407
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:51,360
Speaker 4: This is like capitalism. You couldn't script it better.

2408
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is has to be in stage

2409
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:57,120
Speaker 2: capitalism where it's just eaten everything.

2410
01:57:57,440 --> 01:57:58,720
Speaker 5: It's eaten everything.

2411
01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:00,840
Speaker 2: So in any case, but this article up on the screen,

2412
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:03,440
Speaker 2: all right, so we are learning more about who exactly

2413
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:07,800
Speaker 2: are the top Trump crypto buyers vying for dinner seats

2414
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:10,360
Speaker 2: since he's giving away these, you know, the top crypto

2415
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:12,600
Speaker 2: investors are going to get to have a special dinner

2416
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:14,520
Speaker 2: with him, which just again astonishing.

2417
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:17,920
Speaker 4: More than half of the talks about maybe some maybe

2418
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:18,480
Speaker 4: some business.

2419
01:58:19,160 --> 01:58:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure just how much they appreciate the uh, you know,

2420
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:27,760
Speaker 2: his his crypto savvy. Anyway, most of the more than

2421
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:30,280
Speaker 2: half of the top holders here have used foreign exchanges

2422
01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:34,280
Speaker 2: that say they ban US users, suggesting many of the

2423
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 2: purchasers of these Trump crypto meme coins are based outside

2424
01:58:39,120 --> 01:58:42,480
Speaker 2: the US. Buyers of the Trump token, a cryptocurrency the president,

2425
01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 2: began marketing two days before his inauguration, drove sales higher

2426
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:48,200
Speaker 2: in the past two weeks after its issuers announced an

2427
01:58:48,280 --> 01:58:50,680
Speaker 2: unprecedented promotion, more than two hundred of the meme coin's

2428
01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:52,880
Speaker 2: largest holders would be invited to attend a May twenty

2429
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:55,240
Speaker 2: second dinner with Trump It's Virginia Golf Club, or the

2430
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:57,800
Speaker 2: top twenty five would qualify for an exclusive reception for

2431
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:00,600
Speaker 2: him and what the meme coin's website discret as a

2432
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:01,800
Speaker 2: VIP tour.

2433
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:02,080
Speaker 5: Now.

2434
01:59:02,120 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 2: An analysis by Bloomberg News shows that all but six

2435
01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:08,000
Speaker 2: of the top twenty five holders who've registered on the

2436
01:59:08,040 --> 01:59:11,400
Speaker 2: website's leader board used foreign exchanges that say they exclude

2437
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:13,880
Speaker 2: customers living in the US. More broadly, at least fifty

2438
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:17,040
Speaker 2: six percent of the leader board's top two hundred and

2439
01:59:17,160 --> 01:59:21,640
Speaker 2: twenty holders used similar offshore exchanges. The present prevalence of

2440
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:24,680
Speaker 2: these likely foreign buyers echoes concerns that congressional Democrats have

2441
01:59:24,760 --> 01:59:26,760
Speaker 2: expressed about the essex of marketing the coin with the

2442
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:30,200
Speaker 2: promise of presidential access. Raises questions about how attendees at

2443
01:59:30,200 --> 01:59:32,760
Speaker 2: the promotional dinner, who are publicly identified only by three

2444
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:36,280
Speaker 2: or four letter usernames they've chosen will be vedit. So

2445
01:59:36,400 --> 01:59:40,640
Speaker 2: the tld R here is that the Trump administered Trump himself,

2446
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:44,120
Speaker 2: not the administration, just Trump has opened up the most

2447
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:48,640
Speaker 2: brazen avenue of obvious corruption you could possibly imagine, where

2448
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:53,480
Speaker 2: if you are foreign government, foreign person, a company, a

2449
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:58,560
Speaker 2: US person, whoever, rich person who wants to get access

2450
01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:01,400
Speaker 2: to and get a goodie from the Trump administration, which

2451
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:04,960
Speaker 2: has consolidated all this power within the singular person of

2452
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:08,920
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, what do you do. Well, perhaps you buy

2453
02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:12,880
Speaker 2: millions and millions of dollars in Trump shit coin, which

2454
02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:17,320
Speaker 2: personally benefits him, show him brag about how much you

2455
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:20,720
Speaker 2: pumped up his crypto coin, or you know, you get

2456
02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:23,040
Speaker 2: to go to this fancy dinner and get to get

2457
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:25,080
Speaker 2: your time with him and plead your case.

2458
02:00:25,200 --> 02:00:26,080
Speaker 4: It is completely insane.

2459
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:31,080
Speaker 2: It is insane. It is inane, absolutely insane. And again,

2460
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 2: if we were anything approaching a functioning society, there is

2461
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:37,640
Speaker 2: no way that we would just permit this and go

2462
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:40,280
Speaker 2: on and that this would be okay. We are talking

2463
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:46,520
Speaker 2: about world historic levels of corruption endemic in this whole play, and.

2464
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 5: I just I don't even know what to say about it.

2465
02:00:49,320 --> 02:00:52,880
Speaker 2: It's so naked, it's so incredibly naked, and of course,

2466
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:56,960
Speaker 2: the idea that this administr oh, it's America first and

2467
02:00:57,040 --> 02:01:01,839
Speaker 2: all for US interests, and how does that possibly comport

2468
02:01:02,280 --> 02:01:06,240
Speaker 2: with allowing whoever around the world, but apparently a majority

2469
02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:11,760
Speaker 2: of foreign buyers to outright bribe you through the mechanism

2470
02:01:11,880 --> 02:01:12,640
Speaker 2: of this meeting coin.

2471
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:17,680
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's exactly what we said it would

2472
02:01:17,680 --> 02:01:21,920
Speaker 3: be all along. It's a complete and again going back

2473
02:01:21,960 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 3: to the Clinton Foundation, remember that the claims.

2474
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 4: Actually, I think people on the left and the.

2475
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:29,760
Speaker 3: Right could probably agree, like left left and populist right,

2476
02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:31,640
Speaker 3: populist left and right coul probably agree that what Hillary

2477
02:01:31,640 --> 02:01:34,720
Speaker 3: Clinton was doing with the Clinton Foundation was completely insane percent.

2478
02:01:35,120 --> 02:01:37,040
Speaker 4: That is what Donald Trump is doing with this mean coin.

2479
02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:40,360
Speaker 3: Right, It's like a way for to pedal influence and

2480
02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:44,520
Speaker 3: access with what is no with no transparency at all.

2481
02:01:45,160 --> 02:01:47,560
Speaker 3: That's exactly what this is. So the concept and in

2482
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:49,320
Speaker 3: principle it's very much the same thing.

2483
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like country friends are just accelerated through the

2484
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:56,160
Speaker 2: magic of crypto.

2485
02:01:56,320 --> 02:01:59,000
Speaker 3: And it's always been again like this Donald Trump is

2486
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:02,680
Speaker 3: were naked, and it like they've never really been particularly

2487
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:05,160
Speaker 3: ashamed of this. I remember, you know, you would all

2488
02:02:05,240 --> 02:02:07,600
Speaker 3: these events would be had at the Trump Hotel during

2489
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:10,400
Speaker 3: Trump one point zero, and you would see, I mean

2490
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:17,600
Speaker 3: this never ending door of people from like diplomats, foreign businesses,

2491
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:22,920
Speaker 3: American businesses, all mingling together literally in the lobby, which

2492
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:26,360
Speaker 3: is the actual the etymology of our phrase for lobbyists

2493
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:27,880
Speaker 3: is because people used to hang out in the lobby.

2494
02:02:27,880 --> 02:02:29,640
Speaker 4: I think it was of the Willard and talk to

2495
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 4: like Ulysses us Grant. But that's what it is.

2496
02:02:32,160 --> 02:02:34,680
Speaker 3: It's it's getting access and influence to people in positions

2497
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:38,240
Speaker 3: of power. And yeah, that's always I mean Trump divested

2498
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:40,360
Speaker 3: from the Trump organization, I think in one point zero,

2499
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 3: in two point zero, and it's like, why why even bother.

2500
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:46,320
Speaker 3: It's just like I don't even bother, Like just buy

2501
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 3: the hotel back, you know, might as well just like

2502
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:51,280
Speaker 3: move the White House business to the hotel.

2503
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 4: Well.

2504
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:56,200
Speaker 2: And I want to emphasize too, the way this relates

2505
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:59,240
Speaker 2: to the tariffs, because and this has always been my

2506
02:02:59,320 --> 02:03:02,600
Speaker 2: contention with the that yes, there may be various people

2507
02:03:02,640 --> 02:03:04,640
Speaker 2: in the administration have various goals, but one of the

2508
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:08,520
Speaker 2: primary goals for Trump is power and the ability because hey,

2509
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:11,800
Speaker 2: this is a great marketing scheme for his cryptos shit coin.

2510
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:16,960
Speaker 2: Because now everyone in the world has incentive to pay

2511
02:03:17,000 --> 02:03:20,440
Speaker 2: the money, give you your millions, come to your dinner

2512
02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:23,240
Speaker 2: and make the case for why they need this exemption.

2513
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:25,480
Speaker 2: They need this car bount, they need you know, this

2514
02:03:25,640 --> 02:03:29,200
Speaker 2: particular goodie so that their business can survive and thrive

2515
02:03:29,320 --> 02:03:30,920
Speaker 2: in the Trump terror regime.

2516
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:33,800
Speaker 5: That which is precisely.

2517
02:03:33,440 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 2: Why the power to levy these terrors is supposed to

2518
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:41,920
Speaker 2: be with Congress to avoid exactly this, you know, sort

2519
02:03:41,920 --> 02:03:45,160
Speaker 2: of direct favor trading and having to come and you know,

2520
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:49,520
Speaker 2: petition the king. That's precisely why those powers are supposed

2521
02:03:49,560 --> 02:03:53,040
Speaker 2: to be with Congress. So it really fits together. I

2522
02:03:53,120 --> 02:03:55,200
Speaker 2: do want to say, Democrats, don't get off the hook here.

2523
02:03:55,280 --> 02:03:57,480
Speaker 2: Put E two be up on the screen. This is

2524
02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:01,160
Speaker 2: our other David Dan work reporting here. So you got

2525
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:06,040
Speaker 2: really a lot of bipartisan support for crypto at this point,

2526
02:04:06,440 --> 02:04:09,160
Speaker 2: and not just crypto, but like allowing crypto to do

2527
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 2: whatever sort of scams and schemes that they want to.

2528
02:04:12,240 --> 02:04:14,360
Speaker 2: And there was this bill that relates to a light

2529
02:04:14,480 --> 02:04:17,760
Speaker 2: regulatory touch for what's called stable coins that looked like

2530
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:20,280
Speaker 2: it was on its way to sailing through because crypto

2531
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:24,640
Speaker 2: has massively invested in funding the campaigns both of Democrats

2532
02:04:24,680 --> 02:04:27,840
Speaker 2: and Republicans and punishing any Democrats by the way, Katie

2533
02:04:27,880 --> 02:04:30,640
Speaker 2: Porter being the primary example of this, who were crosswise

2534
02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:33,320
Speaker 2: with them. So this bill looked like it was going

2535
02:04:33,400 --> 02:04:36,600
Speaker 2: to sail through. Then all of this Trump mean coin

2536
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:40,720
Speaker 2: stuff really starts to bubble and Democrats start getting and uncomfortable. Okay, well,

2537
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:43,360
Speaker 2: do I really want to associate ourselves with this industry

2538
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:46,160
Speaker 2: when you see what Trump's doing, et cetera. So there

2539
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:50,280
Speaker 2: it became somewhat of a question whether this pro crypto

2540
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:54,840
Speaker 2: bill was going to be able to get through the Senate.

2541
02:04:55,360 --> 02:04:59,640
Speaker 2: And so, basically, in a classic Schumer move, in fact

2542
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:02,280
Speaker 2: one quotes to this as being quote unquote Shtumer one

2543
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:06,320
Speaker 2: oh one, They're going to add an amendment to the

2544
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:11,400
Speaker 2: shitty crypto bill that allows Democrats to virtue signal, an

2545
02:05:11,400 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 2: amendment that is definitely going to fail. It allows Democrats

2546
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 2: to virtue signal about how much they disapprove of what

2547
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:20,960
Speaker 2: Trump is doing and allow them to be able to

2548
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 2: message that like, oh, they were really trying to stand

2549
02:05:23,240 --> 02:05:27,400
Speaker 2: up to Trump, when really they're just enabling the very

2550
02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:31,160
Speaker 2: corruption that Trump is aggressively partaking in.

2551
02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:33,640
Speaker 5: So that's their that's their move.

2552
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:36,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, great, I love them. Yeah, classic, things couldn't be better.

2553
02:05:36,920 --> 02:05:37,880
Speaker 5: Things could not be better?

2554
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:41,480
Speaker 2: And last one here before we get to Emily's breakdown

2555
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:44,280
Speaker 2: of what's going on with punch Bowl. Jeff Stein great

2556
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:48,440
Speaker 2: reporting on another facet of extraordinary corruption within the Trump administration,

2557
02:05:48,760 --> 02:05:51,600
Speaker 2: which is the use of put each re up on

2558
02:05:51,640 --> 02:05:56,680
Speaker 2: the screen. Here, guys, the use of pushing starlink as

2559
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:00,680
Speaker 2: a tool in the tariff trade war. So Jeff sign says,

2560
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:02,800
Speaker 2: we've obtained internal cable showing how the US government is

2561
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:06,960
Speaker 2: pushing countries facing tariffs to clear the way from Musks Starlink.

2562
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:09,760
Speaker 2: State Department says it's good to encourage other countries to

2563
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:13,560
Speaker 2: adopt starlink. Others point to blurring of Musk's private and

2564
02:06:13,680 --> 02:06:18,080
Speaker 2: government roles, and you know, in fairness, if Elon Musk

2565
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:20,720
Speaker 2: was not one of the most powerful people within this administration,

2566
02:06:21,400 --> 02:06:23,480
Speaker 2: maybe it does make sense to you know. The Biden

2567
02:06:23,480 --> 02:06:27,640
Speaker 2: administration also did some promoting of starlink as an alternative

2568
02:06:27,760 --> 02:06:31,440
Speaker 2: to Chinese telecoms, Like, who owns the satellites and the

2569
02:06:31,480 --> 02:06:35,040
Speaker 2: telecom infrastructure is very important personally, I don't want it

2570
02:06:35,080 --> 02:06:37,440
Speaker 2: to be owned by any singular person, even if that

2571
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:41,400
Speaker 2: person does business in America. You know, or's American citizen,

2572
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:42,560
Speaker 2: as Elon Musk is.

2573
02:06:43,360 --> 02:06:45,120
Speaker 5: So let me just give you a little bit of the.

2574
02:06:45,120 --> 02:06:47,280
Speaker 2: Details here, because I think that is extraordinary, he says,

2575
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 2: less than two weeks after President Trump announced fifty percent

2576
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:52,240
Speaker 2: tariffs on goods from the tiny African nation of Lesotho.

2577
02:06:52,520 --> 02:06:53,720
Speaker 2: Something we talked about here.

2578
02:06:53,720 --> 02:06:55,120
Speaker 4: But I think you pronounced it incorrectly.

2579
02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:58,320
Speaker 3: I think this was the whole thing when remember Lesotho

2580
02:06:58,520 --> 02:07:01,200
Speaker 3: was one of the everyone's like such a random country, right,

2581
02:07:01,200 --> 02:07:03,920
Speaker 3: and then everyone's like, you're pronouncing everyone's pronouncing.

2582
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:05,920
Speaker 5: Oh, so I don't say that the thh it's just

2583
02:07:06,320 --> 02:07:06,720
Speaker 5: t okay.

2584
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:07,040
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

2585
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:10,600
Speaker 2: I didn't take apology at Lesoto, the country's communications right

2586
02:07:10,760 --> 02:07:13,680
Speaker 2: regulator held a meeting with representatives of Starlink after their

2587
02:07:13,760 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 2: hit with the tariffs. The satellite business owned by Elon

2588
02:07:16,160 --> 02:07:19,560
Speaker 2: Musk had been seeking access to customers in Lesotho, but

2589
02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:21,880
Speaker 2: it was not until Trump unveiled the tariffs and called

2590
02:07:21,880 --> 02:07:24,680
Speaker 2: for negotiations overtrade deals that leaders of the country of

2591
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:27,680
Speaker 2: roughly two million people awarded must firm the nation's first

2592
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:31,280
Speaker 2: ever satellite Internet service license, slated to last four ten years,

2593
02:07:31,320 --> 02:07:32,680
Speaker 2: and it goes on to say They're far from the

2594
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:36,160
Speaker 2: only country. It has decided to suddenly take up Starlink

2595
02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:38,800
Speaker 2: company reach distribution deals with two providers in India and

2596
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:42,360
Speaker 2: March has won at least partial accommodations with Somalia, Democratic

2597
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 2: Republican of Congo, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Vietnam, although this is probably

2598
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:49,720
Speaker 2: not a comprehensive count, just so there you go, congratulations,

2599
02:07:49,800 --> 02:07:52,200
Speaker 2: Elon Musk dose was not a complete and utter failure.

2600
02:07:52,440 --> 02:07:54,800
Speaker 2: Tesla may be in the tank, but your Starlink business

2601
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:55,520
Speaker 2: is thriving well.

2602
02:07:55,600 --> 02:07:57,640
Speaker 3: This is one of the complicated things about Elon Musk

2603
02:07:57,800 --> 02:08:00,600
Speaker 3: and it's with SpaceX and Starlink, and particular I think

2604
02:08:00,600 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 3: they're the best examples. Is that starlink is an excellent product,

2605
02:08:04,960 --> 02:08:09,879
Speaker 3: Like it is genuinely a significant innovation, and it's helpful,

2606
02:08:10,200 --> 02:08:13,400
Speaker 3: and it like probably is the best candidate, like SpaceX,

2607
02:08:13,720 --> 02:08:15,960
Speaker 3: and a lot of these different bidding processes and a

2608
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:19,600
Speaker 3: lot of these different negotiations, but you can never actually,

2609
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:23,800
Speaker 3: like we nobody will ever know whether Starlink or SpaceX

2610
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:26,400
Speaker 3: during the Trump administration were chosen because they were the

2611
02:08:26,440 --> 02:08:29,720
Speaker 3: best candidates because or other Musk products, by the way,

2612
02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:32,960
Speaker 3: get contracts because they were the best candidates because obviously

2613
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:36,400
Speaker 3: there's not a fair process period. The illusion of a

2614
02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:39,440
Speaker 3: conflict is a conflict of interest. Anyone who studies conflicts

2615
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:42,320
Speaker 3: of interest knows that that's tell you just the appearance

2616
02:08:42,720 --> 02:08:45,520
Speaker 3: of a conflict in and of itself is undue influence.

2617
02:08:45,640 --> 02:08:48,760
Speaker 4: And so that is a problem with having Musk and

2618
02:08:48,960 --> 02:08:49,919
Speaker 4: the meme coin.

2619
02:08:51,240 --> 02:08:54,920
Speaker 3: Just be hovering over every policy decision that the Trump

2620
02:08:54,920 --> 02:08:57,920
Speaker 3: administration is making foreign and domestic, is you can never

2621
02:08:58,040 --> 02:09:03,000
Speaker 3: disentangle the influence, that's right, that their personal interest has

2622
02:09:03,160 --> 02:09:05,880
Speaker 3: in all this. And I think that's probably why the

2623
02:09:06,240 --> 02:09:09,760
Speaker 3: meme coin, and I think even like Starlink, is part

2624
02:09:09,800 --> 02:09:13,160
Speaker 3: of the background of our conversations, not our but like

2625
02:09:13,200 --> 02:09:15,120
Speaker 3: the national conversation about Trump.

2626
02:09:14,920 --> 02:09:18,600
Speaker 4: And Musk, because it's never in the foreground.

2627
02:09:18,640 --> 02:09:21,000
Speaker 3: I mean not often, although Jeff found a great example here,

2628
02:09:21,520 --> 02:09:23,800
Speaker 3: but it is always it's part of the landscape. It

2629
02:09:23,880 --> 02:09:26,440
Speaker 3: is a permanent fixture, and you can never go back.

2630
02:09:26,440 --> 02:09:28,320
Speaker 3: You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. When

2631
02:09:28,360 --> 02:09:31,600
Speaker 3: you have Musk not divesting, you have Trump with the

2632
02:09:31,640 --> 02:09:35,400
Speaker 3: meme coin coin. It just it adds a permanent question mark.

2633
02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 3: And that's what banana republics like, That's what happens in

2634
02:09:38,760 --> 02:09:41,840
Speaker 3: Banana republics. You have just these permanent question marks and

2635
02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:44,520
Speaker 3: you can't always prove things A plus B.

2636
02:09:44,720 --> 02:09:46,480
Speaker 4: You can't do you can't do it in every case.

2637
02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:48,080
Speaker 4: But that's the problem in and of itself.

2638
02:09:48,280 --> 02:09:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes it does seem actually quite clear in

2639
02:09:51,200 --> 02:09:53,840
Speaker 2: this administration what is going on. Last thing I'll say,

2640
02:09:53,840 --> 02:10:00,400
Speaker 2: with regardless Starlink, just as a broader concern is you know,

2641
02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:03,760
Speaker 2: in the early days that Ukraine War, elon Mus comes

2642
02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:06,640
Speaker 2: in and so I'm going to provide access starlink access

2643
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:11,040
Speaker 2: to the Ukrainians in their fight against Russia. And starlink

2644
02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:14,760
Speaker 2: has been extremely important for comms on the front lines

2645
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:15,720
Speaker 2: in Ukraine.

2646
02:10:16,360 --> 02:10:18,560
Speaker 5: And then there were certain.

2647
02:10:18,280 --> 02:10:20,320
Speaker 2: Things that Zelenski did that he didn't like, and then

2648
02:10:20,360 --> 02:10:23,120
Speaker 2: he decided to pull access, I think in crime or whatever.

2649
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:25,160
Speaker 2: Whether or not you support the decisions he made in

2650
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:27,600
Speaker 2: that instance, it was very troubling to realize this man

2651
02:10:27,680 --> 02:10:30,640
Speaker 2: is basically doing foreign policy as like a private businessman.

2652
02:10:31,240 --> 02:10:34,480
Speaker 5: And that's just to underscore I remember his meeting with India.

2653
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:40,720
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah, And that's just to underscore how important

2654
02:10:41,480 --> 02:10:47,320
Speaker 2: these this infrastructure is, how significant it is to our

2655
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:50,720
Speaker 2: country to foreign policy. And you know, the fact that

2656
02:10:50,960 --> 02:10:53,800
Speaker 2: one business with the wealthiest man on the planet has

2657
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:55,920
Speaker 2: so much control over it. I think everyone should be

2658
02:10:55,920 --> 02:10:57,920
Speaker 2: really uncomfortable with that to start with. And when you

2659
02:10:58,040 --> 02:11:00,800
Speaker 2: layer on top of that, the level power he has

2660
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:04,400
Speaker 2: within the Trump administration without having been elected, just you know,

2661
02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:08,400
Speaker 2: installed in there in this role has always been really

2662
02:11:08,640 --> 02:11:10,880
Speaker 2: really deeply troubling to be and continues to be so.

2663
02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:13,720
Speaker 2: And this is the case in point of why this

2664
02:11:13,960 --> 02:11:17,360
Speaker 2: is really problematic in terms of, you know, our country

2665
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:21,520
Speaker 2: and representing the best interests of Americans versus the best

2666
02:11:21,560 --> 02:11:23,920
Speaker 2: interests of Elon Musk.

2667
02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:26,920
Speaker 3: It just makes me so mad because Musk, you know,

2668
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:32,320
Speaker 3: leads this argument against George Soros's influence over the American government,

2669
02:11:32,480 --> 02:11:35,520
Speaker 3: and Trump will talk about the same thing too, And

2670
02:11:35,680 --> 02:11:38,880
Speaker 3: it's just frustrating because it exploits the genuine concerns of

2671
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 3: a lot of Americans who feel like they get the

2672
02:11:40,600 --> 02:11:42,800
Speaker 3: short shrift and like they get left behind in this

2673
02:11:43,160 --> 02:11:45,720
Speaker 3: economy that's designed for political elites and a spoil system

2674
02:11:45,800 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 3: that's designed to benefit elites over them, and they're exploiting

2675
02:11:50,120 --> 02:11:54,480
Speaker 3: that in ways that's like give me a break, give

2676
02:11:54,520 --> 02:11:57,360
Speaker 3: me a break, and entirely predictable, not at all surprising,

2677
02:11:57,680 --> 02:11:59,840
Speaker 3: and Trump has always been much more open about it.

2678
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:02,000
Speaker 3: I think that's what's even more grading about Elon Musk

2679
02:12:02,000 --> 02:12:03,959
Speaker 3: because he still sort of claims the moral.

2680
02:12:03,800 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 4: High ground in no way that Donald Trump yeah knows

2681
02:12:06,680 --> 02:12:08,840
Speaker 4: what he can't. Yeah, and he almost just doesn't care.

2682
02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:11,280
Speaker 3: He's a he's like a he's Roy Cone, right, like

2683
02:12:11,400 --> 02:12:14,040
Speaker 3: he's a mob boss and he kind of rebels in that.

2684
02:12:14,400 --> 02:12:17,800
Speaker 3: But Elon Musk really like has an Arab sanctimony about

2685
02:12:17,840 --> 02:12:20,680
Speaker 3: him when he talks about these things, and I mean,

2686
02:12:20,840 --> 02:12:23,400
Speaker 3: he just isn't even trying to look like he's not

2687
02:12:23,480 --> 02:12:23,840
Speaker 3: part of it.

2688
02:12:24,080 --> 02:12:26,840
Speaker 2: George Soros could never dream of the level of power

2689
02:12:26,880 --> 02:12:29,040
Speaker 2: and influence that Elon Musk has it and the government

2690
02:12:29,080 --> 02:12:31,280
Speaker 2: at this point. Yeah, all right, Emily, what are you

2691
02:12:31,320 --> 02:12:31,840
Speaker 2: taking a look at?

2692
02:12:32,040 --> 02:12:35,160
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, we have a little exclusive here at Breaking

2693
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:38,160
Speaker 3: Points this morning punch Bowl News, the media startup launched

2694
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:40,680
Speaker 3: by three Politico veterans back in twenty twenty one.

2695
02:12:41,320 --> 02:12:42,280
Speaker 4: We have a new document that.

2696
02:12:42,320 --> 02:12:45,400
Speaker 3: Reveals new details of how that company is supporting its

2697
02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:50,120
Speaker 3: journalism by courting deep pocketed corporations obtained by US at

2698
02:12:50,120 --> 02:12:53,040
Speaker 3: Breaking Points. The document, which is offering twenty twenty five

2699
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:57,320
Speaker 3: partnership opportunities is hardly an aberration here in DC. We're

2700
02:12:57,360 --> 02:13:02,480
Speaker 3: outlets from Axios to Politico take major cash from corporate sponsors,

2701
02:13:02,560 --> 02:13:05,320
Speaker 3: hoping to influence coverage and reach beltweigh readers.

2702
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:06,640
Speaker 4: The leaked punch.

2703
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:10,240
Speaker 3: Bowl deck, though, is rich with specific details about their

2704
02:13:10,280 --> 02:13:14,040
Speaker 3: business model, including a quote two hundred and ten thousand

2705
02:13:14,120 --> 02:13:18,000
Speaker 3: dollars going rate for sponsorship of punch Bowl's flagship daily

2706
02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:21,520
Speaker 3: newsletter two hundred and ten thousand dollars ahead of publication.

2707
02:13:21,680 --> 02:13:24,960
Speaker 3: A spokesperson at punch Bowl punch Bowl News told us

2708
02:13:25,000 --> 02:13:27,840
Speaker 3: at Breaking Points that a chart reflecting those numbers from

2709
02:13:27,880 --> 02:13:30,160
Speaker 3: the leaked document quote is an outdated price sheet that

2710
02:13:30,240 --> 02:13:34,280
Speaker 3: no longer reflects accurate data about punch Bowl News. They added, quote,

2711
02:13:34,320 --> 02:13:37,680
Speaker 3: we are proud to be a growing, profitable media startup

2712
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:39,600
Speaker 3: that employs nearly forty people.

2713
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:42,240
Speaker 4: So the deck that we got our hands on touts a.

2714
02:13:42,280 --> 02:13:45,040
Speaker 3: Quote from house speaker Mike Johnson on March eleventh, saying

2715
02:13:45,760 --> 02:13:49,160
Speaker 3: he reads all of punch Bowls newsletters, indicating that the

2716
02:13:49,280 --> 02:13:52,240
Speaker 3: deck is recent to at least the spring. And actually

2717
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:55,240
Speaker 3: we verified that punch Bowl was passing the deck along

2718
02:13:55,400 --> 02:13:58,240
Speaker 3: just within the last week. So in its pitch to

2719
02:13:58,480 --> 02:14:02,400
Speaker 3: potential sponsors, unch Bowl claims that the newsletter reaches two

2720
02:14:02,480 --> 02:14:05,800
Speaker 3: hundred and ten thousand inboxes every morning with a forty

2721
02:14:05,840 --> 02:14:08,839
Speaker 3: to fifty percent open rate. The outlet says the midday

2722
02:14:09,080 --> 02:14:12,160
Speaker 3: and PM editions of that newsletter reached sixty six hundred

2723
02:14:12,240 --> 02:14:14,880
Speaker 3: inboxes with an open rate of fifty five to sixty

2724
02:14:14,960 --> 02:14:19,080
Speaker 3: five percent. Punch Bowl also bragged about internal polling that

2725
02:14:19,280 --> 02:14:23,400
Speaker 3: found quote k Street leaders resoundingly pointed to us, invoking,

2726
02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:26,880
Speaker 3: of course, lobbyists, when asked about the newsletter, they would

2727
02:14:27,240 --> 02:14:29,360
Speaker 3: characterize as the most important.

2728
02:14:28,960 --> 02:14:30,240
Speaker 4: Part of their media diet.

2729
02:14:30,320 --> 02:14:32,600
Speaker 3: What a pitch to sponsor the site for a week,

2730
02:14:32,760 --> 02:14:35,720
Speaker 3: during which punch Bowl claims to get sixty five thousand impressions.

2731
02:14:35,960 --> 02:14:38,840
Speaker 3: The rate is thirty thousand dollars. Custom content will run

2732
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:42,240
Speaker 3: sponsors of cool two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Summits

2733
02:14:42,280 --> 02:14:45,120
Speaker 3: and editorial events featuring two lawmakers go for three hundred

2734
02:14:45,120 --> 02:14:47,200
Speaker 3: and fifty five thousand dollars, which then drops to three

2735
02:14:47,280 --> 02:14:50,080
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five thousand for editorial events that feature

2736
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:51,000
Speaker 3: a single lawmaker.

2737
02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:51,560
Speaker 4: Great deal.

2738
02:14:51,880 --> 02:14:54,480
Speaker 3: Punchbowl describes its audience as being made up of quote

2739
02:14:54,560 --> 02:14:57,840
Speaker 3: elite influencers, including one hundred percent of Senate and House

2740
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:01,480
Speaker 3: offices and committees, with a fifty fifty split between Republicans

2741
02:15:01,520 --> 02:15:05,440
Speaker 3: and Democrats, ninety seven percent Fortune, one hundred saturation, one

2742
02:15:05,560 --> 02:15:09,960
Speaker 3: hundred percent executive departments, and eleven offices in the White House. Indeed,

2743
02:15:10,120 --> 02:15:13,280
Speaker 3: when Caroline Levitt hosted punch Bowl in the White House's

2744
02:15:13,400 --> 02:15:17,160
Speaker 3: new media seat and in April twenty ninth briefing, she said, quote,

2745
02:15:17,200 --> 02:15:19,480
Speaker 3: it is the first newsletter that Capitol Hill and the

2746
02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:22,080
Speaker 3: White House reads every morning, in the middle of the.

2747
02:15:22,120 --> 02:15:23,760
Speaker 4: Day and throughout the evening.

2748
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:27,879
Speaker 3: Amusingly enough, as it seeks to appeal to corporate sponsors

2749
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:30,680
Speaker 3: in the Trump two point zero administration, punch Bowl claims

2750
02:15:30,680 --> 02:15:33,640
Speaker 3: that it's quote not a legacy media organization, which allows

2751
02:15:33,720 --> 02:15:36,320
Speaker 3: us to be more nimble, more authentic, and more trusted

2752
02:15:36,400 --> 02:15:40,080
Speaker 3: by our core readership similar Beltway outlets. You probably remember,

2753
02:15:40,160 --> 02:15:42,920
Speaker 3: this came under fire from the Trump administration earlier this year.

2754
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:46,480
Speaker 3: In February, Team Trump ordered quote the General Services Administration

2755
02:15:46,600 --> 02:15:50,000
Speaker 3: to terminate every single media contract expensed by the agency.

2756
02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:52,360
Speaker 3: We knew that, according to an email that was obtained

2757
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:56,240
Speaker 3: by Axios, which directed the GSA to quote poll all

2758
02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:58,920
Speaker 3: contracts for Politico, BBC, E and E, which is.

2759
02:15:58,880 --> 02:16:00,760
Speaker 4: A political newsletter, and Bloomberg.

2760
02:16:01,400 --> 02:16:04,280
Speaker 3: So at the time, Levitt said, quote, I can confirm

2761
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:06,240
Speaker 3: that the more than eight million taxpayer dollars that have

2762
02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 3: gone to essentially subsidizing subscriptions to Politico on the American

2763
02:16:09,480 --> 02:16:10,280
Speaker 3: taxpayer's dime.

2764
02:16:10,240 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 4: Will no longer be happening now.

2765
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,320
Speaker 3: Just last week, if you read Political Playbook, you probably

2766
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:16,879
Speaker 3: saw it was sponsored the entire week by Planned Parenthood,

2767
02:16:17,120 --> 02:16:20,400
Speaker 3: perhaps as a consequence of the outlet's rocky relationship with

2768
02:16:20,520 --> 02:16:23,360
Speaker 3: the current government. Gotta find more money somewhere asked by

2769
02:16:23,400 --> 02:16:25,880
Speaker 3: Breaking Points, though, whether any of the subscriptions punch Bowl

2770
02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:30,440
Speaker 3: may have from cabinet agencies and executive branch offices violate

2771
02:16:30,520 --> 02:16:34,760
Speaker 3: any instructions regarding media subscriptions, a White House official confirmed

2772
02:16:34,840 --> 02:16:38,520
Speaker 3: to US yesterday quote three subscriptions terminated, two at SBA

2773
02:16:38,640 --> 02:16:41,680
Speaker 3: Small Business and one at RRB as part of a

2774
02:16:41,840 --> 02:16:45,720
Speaker 3: broader effort to eliminate unnecessary media subscriptions. Little news there

2775
02:16:46,120 --> 02:16:49,280
Speaker 3: in the deck. Punchbowl tout's past partnerships on custom content

2776
02:16:49,440 --> 02:16:54,080
Speaker 3: with Google, Amazon, Walmart, and Defense Congloberate RTX quote Google

2777
02:16:54,160 --> 02:16:56,360
Speaker 3: and punch Bowl news partner together in twenty twenty one

2778
02:16:56,560 --> 02:17:00,400
Speaker 3: through twenty twenty four on a sustained messaging campaigns, letters,

2779
02:17:00,440 --> 02:17:03,400
Speaker 3: custom products, and events supporting its work focused on small

2780
02:17:03,480 --> 02:17:07,680
Speaker 3: businesses and local economies that outlet outlet boasts. Now, this

2781
02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:10,960
Speaker 3: reflection on the outlet's quote support for Google's work is,

2782
02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:14,600
Speaker 3: of course not easily reconciled with punch Bowl's repeated claim

2783
02:17:14,680 --> 02:17:18,360
Speaker 3: in the deck and elsewhere to present quote unbiased coverage. Well,

2784
02:17:18,400 --> 02:17:21,160
Speaker 3: the company may believe it's cover just free from partisan bias,

2785
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:24,480
Speaker 3: it can't seriously claim to be free from ideological biases

2786
02:17:24,879 --> 02:17:29,320
Speaker 3: given that its corporate benefactors are deeply ideological entities buying

2787
02:17:29,400 --> 02:17:32,640
Speaker 3: influence to advance those causes. And the deck punchboll sells

2788
02:17:32,680 --> 02:17:36,240
Speaker 3: its custom quote the future of collaborations as actually including

2789
02:17:36,520 --> 02:17:40,560
Speaker 3: quote editorial features exploring different areas of a mutually agreed

2790
02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:43,560
Speaker 3: upon topic, and a podcast series. So in other words,

2791
02:17:43,640 --> 02:17:48,560
Speaker 3: it is selling influence over specific editorial decisions to major corporations.

2792
02:17:48,760 --> 02:17:51,920
Speaker 3: And this is exactly what corporate funded news outlets deny doing,

2793
02:17:52,360 --> 02:17:55,640
Speaker 3: often arguing they do not allow advertisers or sponsors to

2794
02:17:55,720 --> 02:17:57,760
Speaker 3: influence covers. We'll take your money, but we're going to

2795
02:17:57,800 --> 02:18:00,640
Speaker 3: do what we want that's the line you. Heretually includes

2796
02:18:00,680 --> 02:18:04,120
Speaker 3: a Venn diagram illustrating the quote custom product as the

2797
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:06,199
Speaker 3: overlap between the interests.

2798
02:18:05,840 --> 02:18:08,800
Speaker 4: Of your brand described as a quote true partner and

2799
02:18:08,879 --> 02:18:10,560
Speaker 4: the publication I mean it's amazing.

2800
02:18:10,920 --> 02:18:13,680
Speaker 3: Punchball also uses a document to pitch social events, which

2801
02:18:13,800 --> 02:18:16,080
Speaker 3: range in price from one hundred thousand dollars to two

2802
02:18:16,160 --> 02:18:16,480
Speaker 3: hundred and.

2803
02:18:16,440 --> 02:18:17,480
Speaker 4: Seventy five thousand dollars.

2804
02:18:17,720 --> 02:18:20,560
Speaker 3: Quote a social gathering with Punchbowl News community members exposes

2805
02:18:20,600 --> 02:18:24,800
Speaker 3: sponsor brands to Washington's elite insiders. The deck says, adding quote,

2806
02:18:24,800 --> 02:18:26,840
Speaker 3: punch Bowl News will work to bring together a high

2807
02:18:26,920 --> 02:18:30,240
Speaker 3: level audience of DC insiders from across industries and the

2808
02:18:30,320 --> 02:18:33,480
Speaker 3: public and private sectors. Throughout the deck, Punchball highlights its

2809
02:18:33,520 --> 02:18:37,600
Speaker 3: previous partnerships with McKenzie, Blackrock and Goldman Sachs. One slide,

2810
02:18:37,680 --> 02:18:41,280
Speaker 3: This is amazing practically resembles like a NASCAR vehicle. It

2811
02:18:41,400 --> 02:18:45,200
Speaker 3: has the logos of thirty seven major corporate quote partners,

2812
02:18:45,480 --> 02:18:49,120
Speaker 3: from massive pharmaceutical companies to defense contractors to oil and

2813
02:18:49,240 --> 02:18:51,360
Speaker 3: gas heavyweys. If you're listening to this and not watch

2814
02:18:51,440 --> 02:18:54,119
Speaker 3: it watching it, go to YouTube and look at the video,

2815
02:18:54,200 --> 02:18:56,520
Speaker 3: because just seeing those logos in one place on a

2816
02:18:56,600 --> 02:18:59,920
Speaker 3: news outlet's pitch deck is incredible. It's again worth emphasizing

2817
02:19:00,120 --> 02:19:02,280
Speaker 3: know that punch Bowl is not alone and broker in

2818
02:19:02,320 --> 02:19:05,000
Speaker 3: these financial relationships or using them to get more business

2819
02:19:05,080 --> 02:19:07,600
Speaker 3: from the Fortune five hundred world. The leaked deck is

2820
02:19:07,879 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 3: just a glimpse into the ordinary Beltway corruption of these outlets,

2821
02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:14,879
Speaker 3: where they pedal access to corporations and lobbyists, and they

2822
02:19:14,959 --> 02:19:18,920
Speaker 3: deserve very little credibility when repeatedly insisting that those critical

2823
02:19:19,000 --> 02:19:22,560
Speaker 3: sources of cash do not at all influence editorial decisions.

2824
02:19:22,560 --> 02:19:24,240
Speaker 3: It was plain of day, Actually plane is day in

2825
02:19:24,360 --> 02:19:26,800
Speaker 3: this deck that they do as both the journalists and

2826
02:19:26,879 --> 02:19:31,480
Speaker 3: their corporate sponsors know. That's kind of the whole point, Crystal.

2827
02:19:32,520 --> 02:19:35,920
Speaker 3: When we were flipping through this deck, we were having

2828
02:19:35,920 --> 02:19:36,360
Speaker 3: a good time.

2829
02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:37,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I said to you.

2830
02:19:37,720 --> 02:19:39,680
Speaker 2: I was like, here, we are appealing to the unwashed

2831
02:19:39,720 --> 02:19:41,680
Speaker 2: masses like suckers, when all we need is to be

2832
02:19:41,800 --> 02:19:43,519
Speaker 2: like Mike Johnson watches.

2833
02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:45,400
Speaker 4: Breaking Points sponsors by Walmart.

2834
02:19:45,560 --> 02:19:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's but yeah, this this is not

2835
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:54,640
Speaker 2: a unique model to punch Bowl whatsoever. Political pro operates

2836
02:19:54,680 --> 02:19:57,960
Speaker 2: and these there's other like trade pubs where basically you know,

2837
02:19:58,200 --> 02:20:01,320
Speaker 2: they gather information that is very valuable to one specific

2838
02:20:01,400 --> 02:20:05,600
Speaker 2: industry and then expect those members of that industry toppony

2839
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:08,560
Speaker 2: up very significant sums for those types of subscriptions. But

2840
02:20:08,879 --> 02:20:15,160
Speaker 2: the DC newsletter tip sheet business is so incredibly lucrative,

2841
02:20:15,840 --> 02:20:17,560
Speaker 2: and then you expect.

2842
02:20:17,280 --> 02:20:19,400
Speaker 4: So lucrative two hundred and ten thousand dollars a week.

2843
02:20:19,320 --> 02:20:22,320
Speaker 2: And they say, like almost they have almost forty staff

2844
02:20:22,360 --> 02:20:25,080
Speaker 2: members and their overhead is very low. And then to

2845
02:20:25,160 --> 02:20:26,960
Speaker 2: be raking in these kinds of you know, oh, you're

2846
02:20:27,000 --> 02:20:29,320
Speaker 2: going to pay three hundred and fifty thousand dollars to

2847
02:20:29,440 --> 02:20:32,200
Speaker 2: have some one day event with two lawmakers or whatever.

2848
02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:34,080
Speaker 4: Google and Goldman have done it.

2849
02:20:34,640 --> 02:20:40,039
Speaker 2: It exposes the very corrupt dealings between corporate America, the media,

2850
02:20:40,520 --> 02:20:43,160
Speaker 2: and these members of Congress who are also showing up

2851
02:20:43,160 --> 02:20:45,080
Speaker 2: at these events and participating in them.

2852
02:20:45,560 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 3: Every consumer of the news knows that corporations, and any

2853
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:52,280
Speaker 3: person with common sense knows that corporations want good press

2854
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:54,119
Speaker 3: and they want good access in Washington.

2855
02:20:54,440 --> 02:20:58,720
Speaker 4: Journalists have absolutely no right to give it to them.

2856
02:20:58,959 --> 02:20:59,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it's insane.

2857
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:02,920
Speaker 3: They have no reason to just give it to them, unless,

2858
02:21:03,040 --> 02:21:05,560
Speaker 3: of course, it's you know, genuine and vetted and reported

2859
02:21:05,640 --> 02:21:10,000
Speaker 3: out they have no reason to give corporations this access

2860
02:21:10,360 --> 02:21:12,760
Speaker 3: and good press, which they do. You see it again,

2861
02:21:12,879 --> 02:21:15,520
Speaker 3: like this has been going on for years. They will

2862
02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:18,720
Speaker 3: always embed a nice little ad when you're scrolling. It's

2863
02:21:18,760 --> 02:21:20,800
Speaker 3: not just the bar at the top that says punch

2864
02:21:20,840 --> 02:21:23,279
Speaker 3: Bowl am brought to you by Goldman sax or McKinsey

2865
02:21:23,360 --> 02:21:25,120
Speaker 3: or whatever. Yeah, has that, But then it usually has

2866
02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:27,000
Speaker 3: a little blurb that's the skies to look like news

2867
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:29,000
Speaker 3: in the middle of it, and most people just scroll past.

2868
02:21:29,879 --> 02:21:33,080
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's like, give me right.

2869
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah they say in it, because usually they'll say that's

2870
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:38,600
Speaker 3: not editorial content, that's an ad, but they say in

2871
02:21:38,720 --> 02:21:39,959
Speaker 3: this deck, the punchbol deck.

2872
02:21:40,000 --> 02:21:41,680
Speaker 4: This is one of my big takeaways from it.

2873
02:21:41,720 --> 02:21:44,039
Speaker 3: They say, we will do events on a mutually agreed

2874
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:46,640
Speaker 3: upon topic, or we'll do custom content on a mutually

2875
02:21:46,640 --> 02:21:49,000
Speaker 3: agreed upon topic, and we will give you podcasts for

2876
02:21:49,120 --> 02:21:52,480
Speaker 3: It's those are editorial decisions that you're farming out.

2877
02:21:52,560 --> 02:21:53,720
Speaker 4: That's right, you're selling them.

2878
02:21:53,920 --> 02:21:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can't look even if you are

2879
02:21:56,720 --> 02:22:00,160
Speaker 2: the most you know, the most honest human being being,

2880
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:03,920
Speaker 2: trying to maintain your integrity. When you structure a system

2881
02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:09,040
Speaker 2: where you are financially rewarded for towing a certain ideological

2882
02:22:09,160 --> 02:22:11,800
Speaker 2: line or reporting something and not reporting something else.

2883
02:22:12,160 --> 02:22:14,280
Speaker 5: Human beings are subject to those incentives.

2884
02:22:14,280 --> 02:22:16,080
Speaker 2: They can talk themselves into it and why it's the

2885
02:22:16,160 --> 02:22:18,280
Speaker 2: right choice, and why it's noble, and why actually they

2886
02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:21,400
Speaker 2: really do believe in going in that direction. So that's

2887
02:22:21,440 --> 02:22:24,080
Speaker 2: why it's so important to understand the incentives of your

2888
02:22:24,160 --> 02:22:26,040
Speaker 2: business and the way that you're structuring, which is of

2889
02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:28,800
Speaker 2: course something that we thought about very intentionally here. But

2890
02:22:29,080 --> 02:22:31,560
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that's ironic to me

2891
02:22:32,400 --> 02:22:34,760
Speaker 2: is in Trump two point zero they're trying to brand

2892
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:36,920
Speaker 2: themselves is like we're new media. We're not like that,

2893
02:22:37,280 --> 02:22:40,160
Speaker 2: like the media that's like biased against it. We're totally different.

2894
02:22:40,600 --> 02:22:42,960
Speaker 2: And you know, in a sense, this is the danger

2895
02:22:43,400 --> 02:22:49,280
Speaker 2: of the new media era because those old boundaries that

2896
02:22:49,440 --> 02:22:52,040
Speaker 2: are in place. Look, I worked at a cable news network.

2897
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:56,000
Speaker 2: The advertising department is kept totally separate. When I was on,

2898
02:22:56,240 --> 02:22:57,840
Speaker 2: you know, hosting a show, I had no idea what

2899
02:22:57,879 --> 02:23:00,480
Speaker 2: commercials were going on in the break I was involved

2900
02:23:00,520 --> 02:23:02,680
Speaker 2: in that. I didn't talk to corporate sponsors. I wasn't

2901
02:23:02,720 --> 02:23:06,040
Speaker 2: hosting events for a pharma or whatever, getting along, you know,

2902
02:23:06,120 --> 02:23:09,120
Speaker 2: there was none of that. And when you break down

2903
02:23:09,240 --> 02:23:14,840
Speaker 2: those traditional norms and boundaries that have existed, one of

2904
02:23:14,920 --> 02:23:18,280
Speaker 2: the things you open the door to is just more brazen,

2905
02:23:18,560 --> 02:23:21,800
Speaker 2: outright corruption because it is lucrative and it does allow

2906
02:23:21,840 --> 02:23:25,160
Speaker 2: them to be quote unquote more nimble in servicing Google

2907
02:23:25,440 --> 02:23:28,720
Speaker 2: or you know whoever is willing to pay the two

2908
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:32,400
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars price tag. So that's been

2909
02:23:32,480 --> 02:23:34,560
Speaker 2: one of the things that has been troubling to me,

2910
02:23:34,959 --> 02:23:38,840
Speaker 2: frankly about the new media era is that oftentimes it

2911
02:23:38,959 --> 02:23:42,640
Speaker 2: doesn't actually lead to more honesty and more independence. It

2912
02:23:42,840 --> 02:23:47,720
Speaker 2: leads to more brazen, more direct ties to whatever interest

2913
02:23:47,840 --> 02:23:50,520
Speaker 2: it may be. And you know that's certainly the case

2914
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:52,760
Speaker 2: here with what we can see in this in this

2915
02:23:52,840 --> 02:23:53,320
Speaker 2: pitch deck.

2916
02:23:53,959 --> 02:23:57,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's also like not the same as for example,

2917
02:23:57,400 --> 02:24:01,880
Speaker 3: Rogan selling express vps right, Like, these are massive corporations

2918
02:24:01,959 --> 02:24:05,200
Speaker 3: with significant public interest. I mean, it's like it's been

2919
02:24:05,240 --> 02:24:10,240
Speaker 3: political interest. And I always love when the whether it's

2920
02:24:10,280 --> 02:24:13,280
Speaker 3: Politico or Axios, their line is we are not this

2921
02:24:13,400 --> 02:24:15,480
Speaker 3: does not this is a firewall. It doesn't influence our

2922
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:18,280
Speaker 3: editorial decisions whatsoever. But of course if that was true,

2923
02:24:18,959 --> 02:24:22,200
Speaker 3: these companies would not pay them. They would absolutely not

2924
02:24:22,320 --> 02:24:25,320
Speaker 3: pay them if that were true. And it's also always

2925
02:24:25,360 --> 02:24:28,600
Speaker 3: on the front of your mind. If Meta is giving

2926
02:24:28,680 --> 02:24:32,280
Speaker 3: you money for your newsletter, you're very conscious of that.

2927
02:24:32,400 --> 02:24:35,160
Speaker 3: And as a writer, you know because it's filed, like

2928
02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:37,280
Speaker 3: it's when you file, you then see it in your

2929
02:24:37,320 --> 02:24:39,680
Speaker 3: publication or you see it in the commercial break whatever.

2930
02:24:40,040 --> 02:24:42,240
Speaker 3: They know they get special access. They know that they

2931
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:45,680
Speaker 3: get warmer sentiments from you. The other point I want

2932
02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:47,320
Speaker 3: to make, Crystal is that is so funny to say

2933
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:51,520
Speaker 3: they're unbiased, right, because they genuinely believe that, they really

2934
02:24:51,600 --> 02:24:54,480
Speaker 3: truly think that they don't have a bias R or D,

2935
02:24:55,240 --> 02:24:57,240
Speaker 3: and that means that they're quote unquote unbiased. But what

2936
02:24:57,360 --> 02:25:01,960
Speaker 3: they are is biased towards towards the ideology of corporate influence.

2937
02:25:02,040 --> 02:25:04,160
Speaker 5: That's right, like this, like that's ideological.

2938
02:25:04,280 --> 02:25:05,800
Speaker 4: That is a bias in and of itself.

2939
02:25:05,959 --> 02:25:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're biased against that, and we're open about that,

2940
02:25:09,120 --> 02:25:11,200
Speaker 3: Like we don't just pretend to be like neutral. We

2941
02:25:11,240 --> 02:25:15,800
Speaker 3: are very against corporate influence. Yes, and so that's you

2942
02:25:15,959 --> 02:25:19,240
Speaker 3: have to recognize. It's just like brain did not to

2943
02:25:19,400 --> 02:25:20,600
Speaker 3: understand that that's a bias.

2944
02:25:20,840 --> 02:25:23,440
Speaker 2: That's such a great point because to them. It's just

2945
02:25:23,600 --> 02:25:26,240
Speaker 2: like it's just the air that they breathe. Just this

2946
02:25:26,440 --> 02:25:29,640
Speaker 2: is the default, and so they don't recognize you're supposed

2947
02:25:29,640 --> 02:25:32,360
Speaker 2: to be adversaries. What an extorary bias it is and

2948
02:25:32,920 --> 02:25:35,560
Speaker 2: one that exists, yes, in both parties, so you can

2949
02:25:35,640 --> 02:25:40,199
Speaker 2: be very highpartisans but also very biased in the direction

2950
02:25:40,400 --> 02:25:42,560
Speaker 2: of corporations should get whatever they want.

2951
02:25:42,879 --> 02:25:43,600
Speaker 4: Two final things.

2952
02:25:44,280 --> 02:25:48,560
Speaker 3: White House confirmation that Punchable subscriptions were canceled quite interesting

2953
02:25:49,120 --> 02:25:52,879
Speaker 3: because that was you might remember when the USAID money

2954
02:25:53,080 --> 02:25:55,240
Speaker 3: was being tracked by all of the right wing sleuths

2955
02:25:55,400 --> 02:25:59,000
Speaker 3: on x Politico got hit pretty hard. A lot of

2956
02:25:59,080 --> 02:26:02,400
Speaker 3: unsubscribes from government offices where you get premium subscriptions to

2957
02:26:02,480 --> 02:26:04,360
Speaker 3: punch Ball that gives information that you pay a ton

2958
02:26:04,400 --> 02:26:07,320
Speaker 3: of money for the access to. So it looks like

2959
02:26:07,520 --> 02:26:10,440
Speaker 3: the White House, I don't know when that happened, can

2960
02:26:10,560 --> 02:26:12,680
Speaker 3: follow up with them on that, but looks like they

2961
02:26:13,000 --> 02:26:16,120
Speaker 3: had a few offices unsubscribe to punch Bowl. I'm not

2962
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:18,320
Speaker 3: sure if that was the results of our reporting or

2963
02:26:18,360 --> 02:26:21,920
Speaker 3: if it happened before, but either way, that's that's also happened.

2964
02:26:22,600 --> 02:26:25,880
Speaker 3: And then secondly, punch Bowl giving us a comment that

2965
02:26:26,480 --> 02:26:30,320
Speaker 3: this is out of date. You know that at best

2966
02:26:30,400 --> 02:26:32,880
Speaker 3: it would be out of date, you know, within a

2967
02:26:33,000 --> 02:26:33,440
Speaker 3: week or so.

2968
02:26:33,760 --> 02:26:35,320
Speaker 5: That's technically out of date.

2969
02:26:35,400 --> 02:26:35,600
Speaker 4: Sure.

2970
02:26:35,720 --> 02:26:36,200
Speaker 5: I used to say.

2971
02:26:36,240 --> 02:26:38,119
Speaker 2: The other thing that I noticed is like their numbers

2972
02:26:38,120 --> 02:26:40,760
Speaker 2: are pretty small, you know, but they don't need them

2973
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:43,280
Speaker 2: to be big as long as there is long as

2974
02:26:43,920 --> 02:26:48,440
Speaker 2: the power players are reading their publication, small group of people,

2975
02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:49,680
Speaker 2: that's all it takes.

2976
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:52,200
Speaker 4: And small group of people with a lot of money.

2977
02:26:52,400 --> 02:26:54,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it. That's it exactly.

2978
02:26:54,200 --> 02:26:55,720
Speaker 2: And I think Ryan made this point when we were

2979
02:26:55,720 --> 02:26:58,360
Speaker 2: talking about like the USAID political pro subscriptions.

2980
02:26:58,360 --> 02:26:59,640
Speaker 5: I think he was the one that made the point

2981
02:26:59,680 --> 02:27:00,080
Speaker 5: of life.

2982
02:27:01,120 --> 02:27:03,920
Speaker 2: Those publications, like the trade pubs in particular, that go

2983
02:27:04,080 --> 02:27:07,280
Speaker 2: deep in different industries where there's not a widespread news interest.

2984
02:27:07,560 --> 02:27:09,400
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're in this industry, like you

2985
02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:11,360
Speaker 2: need to of like let's say you're in the trucking industry,

2986
02:27:11,440 --> 02:27:13,600
Speaker 2: logistics industry, you need to know like what's going on

2987
02:27:13,760 --> 02:27:14,440
Speaker 2: and what's going on in.

2988
02:27:14,480 --> 02:27:15,360
Speaker 5: Capitol hell, et cetera.

2989
02:27:15,879 --> 02:27:18,760
Speaker 2: And so it does create a genuine need for that

2990
02:27:18,959 --> 02:27:22,520
Speaker 2: information that's important for lawmakers and important for those industries

2991
02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:26,480
Speaker 2: to understand what is going on. So probably the only

2992
02:27:26,520 --> 02:27:29,880
Speaker 2: answer to that really is like public funding of those

2993
02:27:29,959 --> 02:27:32,879
Speaker 2: type that type of information being created.

2994
02:27:33,760 --> 02:27:35,400
Speaker 5: Otherwise it is going to be just like.

2995
02:27:35,480 --> 02:27:37,600
Speaker 2: The politicos or the punch bowls or whatever the world

2996
02:27:37,720 --> 02:27:39,640
Speaker 2: that you know capitalize on the need for that, and

2997
02:27:39,800 --> 02:27:43,040
Speaker 2: the extraordinary benefit to a small handful of people that

2998
02:27:43,240 --> 02:27:46,080
Speaker 2: you know, justifies huge, huge sums of money being spent.

2999
02:27:47,400 --> 02:27:49,280
Speaker 4: Fun little uh, fun little documentary.

3000
02:27:49,400 --> 02:27:50,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, nice work on.

3001
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:55,560
Speaker 4: Lots of fun too. I mean I did almost the

3002
02:27:55,600 --> 02:27:56,760
Speaker 4: whole week. I think maybe I did do.

3003
02:27:57,320 --> 02:27:59,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were a rock star this week. Thank you well,

3004
02:28:00,120 --> 02:28:01,480
Speaker 2: thank you for having all of us have lets of

3005
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:02,520
Speaker 2: things going on our lives.

3006
02:28:02,560 --> 02:28:04,800
Speaker 4: It's it's crazy. Yeah, across the board.

3007
02:28:04,879 --> 02:28:07,400
Speaker 5: Appreciate you being able to jump in.

3008
02:28:07,760 --> 02:28:10,959
Speaker 2: And I heard you and Ryan unilaterally decide that we're

3009
02:28:11,000 --> 02:28:16,640
Speaker 2: ditching the counterpoints. This is actually something we've been talking

3010
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:19,080
Speaker 2: about because yeah, because it is like, you know, the

3011
02:28:19,160 --> 02:28:22,320
Speaker 2: original ideas you and Ryan show like it would be

3012
02:28:22,680 --> 02:28:24,600
Speaker 2: you know, it'd be different and be your own brand

3013
02:28:24,600 --> 02:28:28,000
Speaker 2: and whatever. But increasingly like we're all just we're doing

3014
02:28:28,040 --> 02:28:30,560
Speaker 2: a thing here, you know, and it's everybody's you know,

3015
02:28:30,640 --> 02:28:33,920
Speaker 2: it's very egalitarian. We're all all on and even footing here.

3016
02:28:34,080 --> 02:28:37,800
Speaker 2: There's no counterpoints and breaking points separations. So I think

3017
02:28:38,200 --> 02:28:41,800
Speaker 2: we are very much in agreement that we should move

3018
02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:48,120
Speaker 2: beyond these artificial borders, artificial arbitar arbitrarily drawn on the

3019
02:28:48,160 --> 02:28:48,800
Speaker 2: show schedule.

3020
02:28:49,160 --> 02:28:50,879
Speaker 3: More to come in that space. I think, yeah, people,

3021
02:28:51,160 --> 02:28:54,440
Speaker 3: we'll be around, We will be around. Finally, Chris, I

3022
02:28:54,640 --> 02:28:56,280
Speaker 3: just want to make this point. We were talking about

3023
02:28:56,320 --> 02:28:58,800
Speaker 3: Livia earlier and I mentioned I was looking up at

3024
02:28:58,879 --> 02:29:01,440
Speaker 3: Fara dot gov. Is there any registered lobbyists. Indeed, there

3025
02:29:01,480 --> 02:29:04,440
Speaker 3: are registered lobbyists and I have for Africa Confidential actually

3026
02:29:04,480 --> 02:29:07,560
Speaker 3: notice one of these filings back in November twenty twenty three,

3027
02:29:07,640 --> 02:29:09,640
Speaker 3: and this is still an active registration if you go

3028
02:29:09,680 --> 02:29:12,480
Speaker 3: to Fara dot gov. Ibrows and raised in Washington, DC

3029
02:29:12,560 --> 02:29:14,800
Speaker 3: by the lobbying contract filed in October between the Libyan

3030
02:29:14,840 --> 02:29:17,199
Speaker 3: House of Representatives now based in Bengazi and K Street

3031
02:29:17,240 --> 02:29:21,280
Speaker 3: outfit Vogel Group. It's a Republican led biorepublican which could

3032
02:29:21,320 --> 02:29:24,640
Speaker 3: benefit the political allies of Libyan National Army leader General

3033
02:29:24,720 --> 02:29:25,760
Speaker 3: Khalifa Haftar.

3034
02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:27,440
Speaker 4: The contract is curious and that it is.

3035
02:29:27,480 --> 02:29:30,200
Speaker 3: Signed between CEO Alex Vogel, a former Republican staffer, and

3036
02:29:30,280 --> 02:29:34,160
Speaker 3: Josephi schmidz On behalf of the Libyan Parliament. Thousy Alnuari,

3037
02:29:34,480 --> 02:29:38,480
Speaker 3: the ambitious Deputy Speaker of the Assembly, is named as

3038
02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:43,000
Speaker 3: the principle. So to the point that farophiling. Actually, if

3039
02:29:43,040 --> 02:29:45,560
Speaker 3: you read it, you have to say what your work

3040
02:29:46,000 --> 02:29:48,880
Speaker 3: is going to look like. You have to say, like roughly,

3041
02:29:48,959 --> 02:29:51,480
Speaker 3: what it's going to look like. And of course it's

3042
02:29:51,600 --> 02:29:54,760
Speaker 3: enumerated here Government affairs and media consulting, including but not

3043
02:29:54,840 --> 02:29:58,120
Speaker 3: limited to providing introductions and to engaging with federal government

3044
02:29:58,160 --> 02:30:01,640
Speaker 3: bodies and entities, think tank trades and other public policy groups.

3045
02:30:01,879 --> 02:30:02,920
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah goes.

3046
02:30:02,760 --> 02:30:05,480
Speaker 3: On to say that, so we'll look into it and

3047
02:30:05,800 --> 02:30:07,320
Speaker 3: try to get answers to see if that had anything

3048
02:30:07,360 --> 02:30:10,120
Speaker 3: to do with the attempted flight. Yeah, but we were

3049
02:30:10,160 --> 02:30:13,279
Speaker 3: talking in the segment about how those introductions between lobbyists

3050
02:30:13,640 --> 02:30:15,600
Speaker 3: are often how that happens, and come to find out,

3051
02:30:15,680 --> 02:30:17,480
Speaker 3: we see there is a lot being contract that is

3052
02:30:17,520 --> 02:30:19,279
Speaker 3: specifically saying they're getting paid for introduction.

3053
02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:20,600
Speaker 4: So we will try to put those dots.

3054
02:30:20,720 --> 02:30:23,360
Speaker 2: The sun was here last week, yeah, and then a

3055
02:30:23,400 --> 02:30:26,440
Speaker 2: flight was put on the schedule to shift my grids

3056
02:30:26,440 --> 02:30:26,879
Speaker 2: s Olivia.

3057
02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:29,080
Speaker 3: So it could be nothing, I mean like it genuinely

3058
02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:31,920
Speaker 3: could be nothing. We're just you know, noting this, but

3059
02:30:32,120 --> 02:30:33,359
Speaker 3: we will look for answers.

3060
02:30:33,600 --> 02:30:35,959
Speaker 5: A lot of journalisming this morning, Emily.

3061
02:30:35,959 --> 02:30:39,200
Speaker 2: A lot of googling, nice Mark, all right, last saying,

3062
02:30:39,280 --> 02:30:40,000
Speaker 2: last thing, last thing.

3063
02:30:40,200 --> 02:30:42,640
Speaker 5: We'll be here for the Friday show. Ryan and me. Definitely.

3064
02:30:42,879 --> 02:30:44,720
Speaker 2: You, I think have some other things going on, so

3065
02:30:44,720 --> 02:30:46,040
Speaker 2: we'll see if you're able to drop in or not.

3066
02:30:46,640 --> 02:30:49,280
Speaker 2: In any case, thank you guys Breakingpoints dot com. For

3067
02:30:49,360 --> 02:30:52,000
Speaker 2: those of you who are premium subscribers, we super appreciate it.

3068
02:30:52,120 --> 02:30:54,800
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3069
02:30:54,840 --> 02:30:57,160
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3070
02:30:57,200 --> 02:30:59,200
Speaker 2: be able to have that extra day and give you

3071
02:30:59,320 --> 02:31:01,480
Speaker 2: coverage Monday Friday, So thank you for that. If you're

3072
02:31:01,520 --> 02:31:03,440
Speaker 2: not a member yet, if you're able to sign up

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3074
02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:08,320
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3075
02:31:08,400 --> 02:31:10,440
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3076
02:31:10,520 --> 02:31:12,640
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Speaker 2: does help a lot. Thank you, guys, Love you, see

3080
02:31:21,080 --> 02:31:21,720
Speaker 2: you back here tomorrow,