1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry rid Hoolds on 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have an extra extra 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: special guest. My friend Howard Lindzen is a guest. This 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: is a little off of our regular format only because 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: Howard and I know each other for forever and less 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: than a guest. Doing a Q and A is just 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: kind of me goofing around with Howard and having a conversation. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: Howard has had, like, really this shockingly blessed career. He 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: launches wall Strip in the early two thousands, and before 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: you know it, he's in the middle of a bidding 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: war with a bunch of different people The Street, dot Com, 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: and CBS wanting to buy it. He rolls that cash 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: into his next venture, which becomes a wildly successful angel fund, 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: which now is in its fourth edition. He was a 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: pre IPO investor in companies like Facebook and Twitter. Literally 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: the first check in to Robin Hood, which went public 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one at about a thirty four billion 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: dollar valuation, So you can imagine that first check multiplied 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: a little bit from twenty fourteen or so. I know 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: him from Linzen Palooza, from his early media work, so 22 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: strap yourself in for a fun conversation about what it's 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: like to be at in the room where it's happening, 24 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: to quote Hamilton, but to be at the intersection of 25 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: media and finance and technology as the world is blowing up. 26 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: I thought this conversation was fun and fascinating, and I 27 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: think you will also with no further ado, my discussion 28 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 2: with social leverages. Howard lindsay, Hello, Barry, So what do 29 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: you think of these dicks? 30 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: Pretty nice better than my you know, Canut is a 31 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: like mcgver of sound. He's my producer, went to school 32 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: together at a ISU and we have this room like this, 33 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: no lights, everything's padded. It's all about sound. 34 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: This is this is professional. First of all, everything at Bloomberg. 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: The equipment is just like the best of the best. 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: The people are great, they don't fool around. The only 37 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: thing I'm waiting for in the studio is a robotic 38 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: camera so we could do little video clips. But yeah, 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: I think video but that's coming also all right, awesome 40 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: if it's interesting and cool and cutting edge, these guys 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: are right right on it. So let's talk a little 42 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: bit about your background. I've known you for forever and 43 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: over the course of most of that time, your work 44 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: has really operated at the intersection of finance and media. 45 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: How did those two ent combined? How did that come about? 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: What they came about? Because the Internet did its thing. 47 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: You know, I think they called Web two. That's when 48 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm very much not a technical person. 49 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: The I grew up, I thought it was Web three. 50 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: No, they called now, they called the now they call 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: it web three. 52 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: In the two thousands. 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: Back in the two thousands, we were coming through that nasty. 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't involved in tech back then, but you know, 55 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: by five, people thought, you know, we were in an 56 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: everything was real estate. But in Lato five Earli oh six, 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: YouTube came on the forefront and I saw YouTube, and 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is for whatever reason that was. There 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: was many competitors or one hundred youtubes, but you know, 60 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: the YouTube and its ilk. As soon as I saw YouTube, 61 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: everything changed for me. 62 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: Really Yeah. 63 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: And you know before that, obviously the Apple Store of 64 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: my first walking into an Apple store in seeing the 65 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: iPod and being able to play with it inside the store, 66 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, one oh two, But that 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: was more hardware and music and not Internet related to me, 68 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, because I came from the financial background, so 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: everything was DOS and Windows. So first year one to 70 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: oh two, you have Apple and they blew out the 71 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: store model, the retail model, which no one thought. 72 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 2: And then you bother the headlines from that era about 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: why the ice Apple store was destined to be such 74 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: a failure or just hilarious. 75 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: Well, because Gateway had failed, like everybody was doing it and. 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: There was no differentiated between Dell, Gateway, HB. Apple was 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: its own animal and they controlled their ecosystem. Very different 78 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: creature then different creature. 79 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: I didn't know what Apple was, even though you know, 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: because you in the financial world you were on DOS 81 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: or Windows. 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: I was one of the few on a Mac and 83 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: uh hard slogging. It was tough. Not everything was available. 84 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: In fact, there was a period of time where it 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 2: looked like Microsoft Office wasn't going to be made available. 86 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: That would have been the death blow to Apple. The 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: any trust case against Microsoft is the only thing that 88 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: kept Apple a lot. They needed a quote unquote competitor, 89 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: and now the two of them are the two Mac 90 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 2: daddy's in the space. 91 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was living in Phoenix in an Apple store 92 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: open up to build more and I stumbled it across 93 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: the Street, never really an Apple user, and it just 94 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: blew my mind the store. 95 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: So that raises an interesting question. How does a kid 96 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: from Arizona, from Phoenix get interested in venture investing not 97 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: exactly known as a hotbed of early stage core companies. 98 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: Well, I'd have to go further back. It's okay. You know, 99 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: I grew up in Toronto, and I grew up born 100 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: in sixty five and so in my formative years, you know, 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: there was TV. There weren't really great video games, matel 102 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: and television cal Eco. But you know, when I'm fifteen 103 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: years old, Second City Television comedy was in the water. 104 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 2: Like Chicago and Canada was a giant feeder into the US. 105 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: Martin Shore. Go down the list of all the gree 106 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: I grew. 107 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: Up watching them live to stand up at Yack Yuck's. 108 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: So there was Jim Carrey. There was a chain so 109 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: much like you know you went to Stanford and got 110 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: into face. You know, you went to work in tech 111 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: in this generation in two thousand and I mean sorry, 112 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, I was fifteen years old. I'm sneaking 113 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: into comedy clubs watching you know, Jim Carrey and Dave 114 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: Thomas and you know, like everybody could show up on 115 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: a night here in New York. I went to the 116 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: eleven thirty show, a comedy, so just see nobody famous famous? 117 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: Who was funny? I don't care who was famous? Who's 118 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: you know? 119 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't even remember their name. There was only one 120 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: out of six that I thought were funny. But you 121 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: go at eleven thirty here, so hopefully that's but you 122 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: hopefully go that late show to see maybe a Chris 123 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: Rock or somebody shows up to actis So in nineteen. 124 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: Eight, just put out a new show. So he's off 125 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: the market for a while. 126 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: Good point. So in nineteen eighty I would go to 127 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: these clubs and that was who my idols were, and 128 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: I was just you were. Second City was on television, 129 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: so I had a comedy bug and you had Johnny Carson. 130 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Those were like the shows that a weird. 131 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: Kid would How did that lead to woolstrip. 132 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: Long and then you take a break. I moved to Arizona, 133 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: go to Asu from Toronto. Yeah, from run Away from Home. 134 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: Had it with this gold and snow. I'm going where 135 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: the sunshines and I don't care about anything. 136 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: Made that move. Loved Arizona Golf cycling obviously the weather. 137 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: I go to ASU do my MBA and I graduate 138 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen the middle of the pretty bad recession, the 139 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: SNL crisis. So I got my MBA eighties right, No, 140 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: it's the SNL crisis, Charlie Keating, SNL boy and Golf 141 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: of War breaks out right and pretty bad recession. Yeah. Yeah, 142 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: So that's when I started in business and became a stockbroker. 143 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: And I did not know that about you. You became 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: who you were broken for. 145 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: It was the prince. It was called the Principal, Eppler, 146 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: Garon and Turner. So it was a little regional, you know, 147 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: and they all got rolled up. I think eventually it's 148 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: wreck Dane Rauscher, which is no royal bank, like it's 149 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, everything got rolled up. I got. I learned 150 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: how to sell pat ryle with my first mentor you know, 151 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: back then, you wore a suit, you went into work, 152 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: You go to Nordstroms, you get a suit, smile and do, 153 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: smile and die, you know. 154 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: I worked with those guys. 155 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you just had there was no software, there 156 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: was no uh you know, you. 157 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: Just asked for a quot tron. They're like, what do 158 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: you need a quote run for take up the phone. 159 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: So that was my first real job. But I needed 160 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: to do a job to just stay in the United States. 161 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: And so even with my master's degrees, you know, back then, 162 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: I needed to figure out how to stay in the US. 163 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: So I became a stockbroker. Anyways, one of my cold 164 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: calls became a home run. So you smiled and dowed. 165 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 2: What do you mean one of your cold calls became 166 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: a home run? So you know this by the way, 167 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: I thought I knew your origin story. 168 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: Now this is the real one. 169 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: This is this is the Mandalorian. We're going pre Boba. 170 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: Fett if it's okay, because you have to know, because 171 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: it was really make your own luck. And everything's a 172 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: cold call. So you know, I'm smiling dialand there's no 173 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: internet to search wealth, and so you open the local 174 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: business paper and there's this kid smiling holding a squeeze 175 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: like a product called the Grip, and I figure he's 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: got money, So I dial the guy. He goes, yeah, 177 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: come on down, and I go on down. He pitches 178 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: me right, So I'm you know, I got my MBA money. 179 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: I want to do the next ground. 180 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: He goes, I need twenty five grand to make payroll. Anyways, 181 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: he had the stress balls. 182 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 2: And you know, I love where the eyes pop that. 183 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's just I'll get into like the details. 184 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: But anyways, a beautifully con instructed stress ball called the Grip. 185 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: It was four tension. It was four balloons tension wrapped 186 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: around this Siberian millet. 187 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: That's the technical, serious piece of hardware. 188 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, serious piece of squeeze ball. Anyways, I give him 189 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: twenty five grand that I don't have, right, and I 190 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: did being a stocktorker. 191 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: Did you just commit to the money and then you 192 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: had to go scramble? 193 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: Oh I had to scramble. 194 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: Okay, but you know, get into the details. We're going 195 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: to find twenty five grand. 196 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: From one of the last conversations I have with my dad. 197 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: We never got along, but one of the last conversations 198 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I had my dad, I have an MBA. I cut 199 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: this deal with Mark Scattered, who's a great founder and 200 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: he's a very young guy as a fireman, who created 201 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: this product. And I'm like, Dad, I found it. I 202 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: need twenty five grand to get going. And my dad said, 203 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: send me a business plan. I'm like, dude, I'm your son. 204 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: I went to business school. 205 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: He just wanted you to go through the exercise. 206 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: And I didn't want it, so I scrambled my own 207 00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: money together. 208 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like your dad's idea. You should have 209 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: created a business plan just so you have it under 210 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: your belt now. 211 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: No, so obviously I did the business plan. I'm kidding 212 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: and h but he didn't give me the money, so 213 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: you could just go figure it out. And uh figured 214 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: it out. Gave Mark the money. He went and paid 215 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: off some bill, his MX bill, And now I'm the 216 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: owner of a business that has no money again. Long 217 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: story short, the product was a hit. The product is 218 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: called the grip. I came in, We built out what 219 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: was called this ad specialty business corporate logos, putting it 220 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: on business. Long story short, the product got onto QVC 221 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: and where you're in the QBC Hall of Fame, there 222 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: is a QVC. 223 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: How many units of this thing? 224 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: Tens of millions. 225 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: So just put some jingle in your pocket. 226 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was our first real hit pre internet. 227 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: Did you ever sell that business? 228 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: So the business still exists. Mark Scatted is a great entrepreneur. 229 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: He's still a huge No. So I was never Lee 230 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: and own. There was an escort and this is when 231 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: you really This goes back to the Rodney Danshfield Back 232 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: to School movie. It's like, get who's going to pay 233 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: the team stairs? So we so I learned everything about 234 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: business from this. We had incredible margins and software didn't 235 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: basically exist back yet, and so you had a made 236 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: locally made locally in Arizona. Wow. And we would sell 237 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: tens of millions, and we were like the Dura Flame 238 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: and everybody started copying us. But we had these incredible margins, 239 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: and that's how I got involved in stocks, meaning we 240 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: were making so much money you had to find a 241 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: home for it. You had to find a home for it. 242 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: And luckily there was a bull market. This was in 243 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: the early nineties, so there. 244 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: Was you still had almost a decade left before everything correct. 245 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: So indirectly I became a hedge fund manager and manage 246 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: our cash at the Squeeze Ball Company. 247 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: At the Squeeze Ball Company, you're managing tens of millions 248 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: of dollars because it's flowing in that way. 249 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: Correct. So the Internet in ninety five or ninety six 250 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: becomes I guess a thing, right, and I walked into 251 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: Mark's office. I go Mark before then, but hold but 252 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: I go mark, we got to own our domain, and 253 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: so the grip was g ri ipp. So remember the 254 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: first experience of the Internet was that when I tried 255 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: to buy the domain, it was owned by a penis 256 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: extension company called the Grip. They were squatting on the 257 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: Grip's website. So here's what's fine. I didn't want to 258 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: buy the domain. I'm not paying this guy for the domain. 259 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: What was he asking for it? 260 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: Do you remember? Honestly, I don't remember, but I was like, 261 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: we'll just we'll just we'll put three p's. I don't 262 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: know what my idea was. But anyways, so our product's 263 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: on QVC. So we now don't have a domain name 264 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: in QVC. We're like a home run product on KVC. 265 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: Who's our customer Seventy year old women buying stress balls 266 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: for you know, therapy, you know, squeezing, you know whatever. 267 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: They were selling it as women were buying it good 268 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: for and so QVC would call sin. We have hundreds 269 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: of complaints from old women that are going to a 270 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: website to buy your product. Again, and that's how I 271 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: learned the Internet. Now that's a good origin story. So 272 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: that is how I got into tech and knew what 273 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: the Internet was, and then I didn't do the Internet 274 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: again until two thousand and six. 275 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, wait, bro back before we're gonna not 276 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: skip that deck. So you learned the lesson about a 277 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: domain squad. 278 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: Own your own domain, master of your door. 279 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: But you did were you master of your own domain? 280 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: Oh? You learned that early. You have to. 281 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: But did you not stop and think, hey, there's some 282 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: money to be made in gramming some domains. This guy 283 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: did it to us. Let's now own taxi dot com. 284 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: Or there was no Netscape browser. 285 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: That's how early I remember the Netscape browser wasn't nine or. 286 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: No, the IPO was ninety six, because I remember so 287 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: then it was right on the cuff. I remember being 288 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: on a trading desk and not being allowed to trade it. 289 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: Rid Holt's you're a movie, don't don't touch that ipo? 290 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: Correct? So so am my genius? Because again, I'm not 291 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: an Internet 'm a car Many kid, and I'm like 292 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: haphazard VC, not haphazard hedge fund. Like I'm a hap 293 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: hazard VC. I mean, I didn't set out in life 294 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: to be a hedge fund guy. Our business turned me 295 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: into a hedge fund. I didn't set out to be 296 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: a venture capitalist. I was an entrepreneur, but it pade 297 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: me access. So sorry to go back to those ten years. 298 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: I am now my big idea of the Internet, and 299 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people know the story in general because 300 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: it happened to a lot of hedge funds or people. 301 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: It's like Internet stupid. No one really is using it 302 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: other than to, you know, to swear at people. It's 303 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: kind of like pre Twitter. I don't nobody uses it 304 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: except to like talk sex and check the weather. So 305 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, if anybody's going to use the Internet, the 306 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: FedEx is going to benefit. So through that whole late boom, 307 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: I was the guy like not owning Internet companies. 308 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: But looking at logistics. 309 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, like thinking like and FedEx would go down every 310 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: day for some reason. You know, I really got that 311 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: first trade horrifically wrong. 312 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: If you took that to its natural conclusion, then you're 313 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: owning things in the nineties like Cisco and Juniper Systems 314 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: and AMD and Global Crossing, which is, you know, the 315 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: blocking and tackling of the Internet. But you had to 316 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: have at least a little tech. 317 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: I know. My problem is I grew up and try 318 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: them conservative. I'm like very like fundamental, and I didn't 319 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: understand the internet. Not conservative politically. 320 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I mean you don't strike me as 321 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: somebody risk averse very really. Yeah, we'll talk more about 322 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: that in a little bit. So the rest of the 323 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: nineties you just sat on. 324 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: Your hands, Yeah, sat on my hands, missed the Internet boom. 325 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Also didn't get killed. 326 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: Right, So you come out of the crash. 327 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: Just hating the market. I didn't understand the market. 328 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: What's down eighty one percent between friends on the NASDAK, right, 329 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: that's that's not a big deal. 330 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: Didn't even know the Nasdaq basically, So what when. 331 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: Did the idea for wall strip pop into your head? 332 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: So now the one lucky investment that I made, and 333 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: it was a dumb investment, much like you know the 334 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: dumb investments people made in twenty one. So in nineteen 335 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: ninety nine, Hu I invested in this. Some guy pitches 336 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: me on a series Q or whatever they were doing 337 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: right then of cars Direct, which was. 338 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: Like I recall that cars Direct was like a. 339 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: Hot late stage end of end of the bubble era 340 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: where you could sell cars at a loss, but we'll 341 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: do it in volume and a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, 342 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: And so someone pitched me like the series Q and 343 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: I was like in cash right, like I was missing 344 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: the whole internet bubble. So I remember then, yeah, I'll 345 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: put some money in this and that was the top. 346 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: The minute my wire hit cars Direct now as an 347 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: added bonus to invest in cars Direct. To induce me 348 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: into car they were going to throw in this other 349 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: internet company. You know sometimes you like go to the 350 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: horse races and they give you like handicapped horses, like 351 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: an extra for betting on one horse then. 352 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 2: Probably won't finish the race, right, Well, they said, what 353 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 2: did they throw in? 354 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: They threw in this company, Viva dot Com. 355 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 2: Viva. 356 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: I didn't even look it up, so they said, listen, 357 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: it is the two for one. Uh. Anyways, the bubble. 358 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: Ends cause Direct goes. 359 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: I think ten years later we sold for a few 360 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: cents on the dollar or something bought it. But this 361 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: Viva dot Com was run by Scott Ingram, who's a 362 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: friend of mine. In an LP now and meet him 363 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: at your events, probably one of our events. Anyway, Scott, 364 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: Viva dot Com becomes rent which was uh means rent 365 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: like it was just they couldn't they couldn't buy rent 366 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: dot Com during that boom, right during the crash, he 367 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: goes and buys the domain rent dot com and builds 368 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: the largest, you know kind of rent marketplace, and eBay 369 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: buys it for four hundred and fifty million dollars. And 370 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: you were so my seed? I seed. That was my 371 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: first seed win by mistake. 372 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: Right and wish. There have been many seed wins. 373 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: By so that was that gave me my first Internet win. 374 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 2: Were you like a cap table owner or just a 375 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: rounding air. 376 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: A rounding air, But for me it was still real money. 377 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: So I go and I became friends. I used to 378 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: call Scott Ingram and go, how are you still alive? 379 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: Like I was just like my one Internet investment, right, 380 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: and he just thought I was humorous, like as a 381 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: fifty k hundred k investor checking in on my investment 382 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: and we would talk about the. 383 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: Inillion dollar comedy. How's my ten grand doing? 384 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I was fascinated that a businessman could build 385 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: businesses on the Internet. And so now flash forward to 386 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, my hedgehunk guy, I hate CNBC. I don't 387 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: have money for a Bloomberg. You know, I'm just a 388 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: retael Yahoo finance kind of guy. 389 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 2: Righty, it's right? 390 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: And e trade and in oh six, YouTube comes out, 391 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: and I have this idea that I'm going to build 392 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: going back to my comedy and going back to how 393 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: I grew up and going I'm going to build CNBC 394 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: on YouTube. That was it. 395 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 2: That was my idea satirical take on financial television. No 396 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 2: playing it straight, but I always thought there was a 397 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: lot of tongue in cheek and everything you guys did correct, right, 398 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: It wasn't straight up, it wasn't Second City, it wasn't 399 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: supposed to be funny vin Yettes. You played it straight, 400 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: but there was a subtext of, hey, this stuff's ridiculous. 401 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: Correct the first show, meaning I I that's what hooked everybody, 402 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: That's what hook but we never got beyond that before 403 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: CBS spot up. But going back, I had this idea 404 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: one show song. Yeah, I cold call Fred Wilson, who 405 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know at the Union. 406 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: Square backs down here in New York. 407 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: So I used to leave these whack job comments on 408 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: his blog. He had this blog, and back in the day, 409 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: blogs had blog rolls, you know that. 410 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: Bloger had comments up until like nine. Finally I just 411 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: show up. 412 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: Fred was like Twitter. Everybody was there talking to Fred, 413 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: and I would leave these whack job comments like what 414 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: like fun, I can't believe you're giving Yeah, became the 415 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: bouncer at Fred's site. 416 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: You're the Motley fool then. 417 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: Because I was the guy who didn't care about venture 418 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: I was just there. I can't believe he's sharing all 419 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: this wisdom about venture free for free. Anyways, I finally 420 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: pitch him. I say, Fred, you're gonna be in Phoenix. 421 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: He's never met me. I said, I'm gonna take you 422 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: to a Sun's game. And this is like Internet two 423 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: thousand and five. Fred was already I don't feel I 424 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: was famous. 425 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: He had already. 426 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: He wasn't famous that he wasn't famous like he is today. 427 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: Well, because post dot com implosion, nobody cared about career 428 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: was the VC but they had been making money for 429 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 2: a while. 430 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: Correct. But he had done so many big deals in 431 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: the first run, right, and the biggest one being I'm 432 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: having a senior moment. But anyways, it'll come to me. 433 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: I go, Fred, come to the Sun's game. You know, 434 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to just become his friend, right, And he agrees, 435 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: brings the Sun and we go to the Sun and Joanne, 436 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: his wife, was like, Fred, you can't just go out 437 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: with people on the internet. This is not that long, 438 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: but Fred just we became friends. I pitched him on 439 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: this idea. 440 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: Nobody stalk someone for three years to murder them. 441 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: They normally think about Brad and social media where we're 442 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: at today. 443 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, think about how many people you know today from 444 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,479 Speaker 2: social media. You never would have known. It's been flipped 445 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: on its head. 446 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. So he counts in. He kind of becomes my 447 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: mentor in that, and I find out that he was 448 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: Street dot COM's first I didn't even know this until 449 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: after he invested, So luck would have it. Not only 450 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: did he get my idea to create TMC on YouTube, 451 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: he was there when Kramer was building the Street dot 452 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: com and that was late nineties. Yeah, show Fred. 453 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: By the way, I have said that the very first 454 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 2: financial blog was Todd Harrison's trading diazing. That was a 455 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: real time series of update embedded in the Street dot 456 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: Com that you know, here's a guy who was Kramer 457 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 2: burk Witz's trader. I mean a lot of the best 458 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: trades that Kramer did as a hedge fund manager, you know, 459 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 2: tapping out before everything went to hell in two thousand. 460 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: I think that's Todd saying, listen, every risk measure we 461 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: look at is terrible. I remember reading this, you gotta 462 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 2: get out and he avoided the disaster. Full credit to 463 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: Harrison on that, but real time, hey, we'll put legging 464 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 2: into this position. He used to use the bull and 465 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 2: Bear medical stor. I got one right exactly in all 466 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: the comments, it was all live. 467 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: It was Street dot Com to give credit. Was the 468 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: place your blogs. Listen. 469 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 2: I have my partner Josh Brown pulls the Street dot Com, 470 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: the Motown of finance, Barry Gordy and everybody who came 471 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: out of Motown. I could give you a list of 472 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 2: one hundred people you know in finance today that trace 473 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: their roots back to Street dot Com. Present company included. 474 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was a customer. And I was a 475 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: Kramer fan at the time because I came from the 476 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: Street myself, right. 477 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 2: And he was running a fund he was he was 478 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: very active. 479 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: It was like it was real. And so I find 480 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: out Fred was his investor. It was like, wow, so 481 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: I got the right investors. I raised six hundred grand 482 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: for wall Strip, which is a lot of money, right, 483 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: and and well, at then Web two hasn't wasn't really 484 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: a thing. 485 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 2: Two thousand and five. Yeah, I mean back then it 486 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: was you know today everything is Amazon Cloud. It doesn't 487 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: take a lot. Back then, you had to have servers, 488 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: you had to have had people, you have like just 489 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: building out the back. 490 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: End was a massive and no revenue idea. Right, there 491 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: was no infrastructure for revenue. Right, There's no ad networks 492 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: and there was no so everything from So when we 493 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: did an AD, we had to like make the ad, 494 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: insert the ad ourselves. 495 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 2: Like we were able to track it, be able to build it. 496 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: So lucky as luck would haven't. The show was a hit, 497 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: and by hit, I mean not like millions of views, 498 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: because but in relative terms at that time, if you 499 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: went to YouTube, it was cat videos and it was 500 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: people filming their television and getting takedown notices of like 501 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: dukes of hazard or whatever. So it was just a 502 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: giant lawsuit. 503 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: The woman you had as an anchor, ye, fantastic, Lindsay Campbell. 504 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: Lindsay was awesome and she went on to go into television. 505 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: When we sold, Lindsey got a part in the show 506 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: that was The Errors Show, the Mob Show on HBO, 507 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: The Sopranos. She was a teacher in a couple episodes. 508 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: For early seventies. Your memory is really terrible. You should 509 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: be a little bit. 510 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: I can't log on the internet to just search IMDb 511 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: basically IMDb. Are you on a screen or It's okay people, 512 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: It's a thing that honestly happens that you just tip 513 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: a your tongue all day long. 514 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: So I have this to look forward to in ten years. 515 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: You do. And by the way, I'm going to have 516 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: to stand up for the last half of this because 517 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: I feel like I have to pee. So so Lindsay Campbell, 518 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: we found uh but what what a time? This was great. 519 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: She was talk about all everything lined up perfectly at once. 520 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we had this idea. This a funny story. 521 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: So there Fred was a master. And Fred introduced me 522 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: this is how the internet worked. Before the Internet, there 523 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: was no iPhone yet, there was not even still was 524 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: really coming into its own. 525 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: Right, You're still a few years away. By the way, 526 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: I have a vivid recollection of Lindsay and a cameraman 527 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 2: with her holding a wired mic back to running around 528 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: Lower Manhattan Midtown, asked throwing the mic on the streets? Step, Yeah, 529 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: what do you think of this? And you know she's 530 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: a pretty girl. People were like more than happy to 531 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: talk to her. Guys in suits with today we would 532 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: call them finance bros. But she would be on Wall Street. 533 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: So what's going on with the markets? 534 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: And the way we edited it was hysterical. 535 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: That was a show. 536 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: So so the idea was we're going to create CNBC 537 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Fred and handing me a list of eleven people, 538 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: He said, Howard he didn't investor fin Yeah, he said, 539 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: why do you call him? Pee? Pee peep? Roger Ehrenberg, Hey, Roger, Hey, Horod. 540 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: I read your blog blah blah blah Fred Fred's investing. Uh, 541 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: if you drop Fred's name, everybody wrote a check. So 542 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: I go. Of course I didn't know this at the time, 543 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: so I go. Fred said to give you a call. 544 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, I'm in for twenty five. Hangs up, 545 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: pee peep. Brad Felt, Hey, Brad. Fred Wilson said I 546 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: should call it, sure, twenty five k peep. Anyways, I 547 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: call Fred back like a day later, I go ten 548 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: for eleven. Okay, who's the eleven. That's a funny story. 549 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: So this guy Mark Pinkas who's gone on to start Zinga, 550 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: and he was investor in Facebook and LinkedIn. He partners 551 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: with Reid Hoffman. Fred is an investor in all his stuff. 552 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: He was a name on the list. So I call, 553 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: I call Mark Pinkas. I'm on a roll. I'm like 554 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: god attitude. So I call Mark Pinkas picked up. He goes, Okay, hey, hey, 555 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: it's Howard. Fred said to give me your number. I 556 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: do the pitch. He goes, it's the dumbest idea over here. 557 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: And he goes and then he goes like this and 558 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: tell Fred not to give up my phone number anymore. 559 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: He hangs up of it. So when I call Fred back, 560 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: so I called for I don't know. That's a hard no. 561 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: And anyways, if you know Mark, and I do, he's 562 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: an LP. He's the friend as much as you can 563 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: be a friend with Mark. He's super smart investor and 564 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: started a thing. Guy I called Fred Becker. Guy, your 565 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: your genius. I go, ten out of eleven people just 566 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: wrote a check over a star Tek phone call pitch 567 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: for an internet YouTube company. I go, I don't know 568 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: what's going on here, And I said, but there's this 569 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: one guy who not only thinks it's the dumbest idea, 570 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: but told me not to give He said to you 571 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: not to give out his phone number anymore for a laugh, 572 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: just for me. He knew who was Yeah, he goes, 573 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: oh that's Mark. Don't worry anyways, So told him back 574 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: and he didn't say call him that. But this is 575 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: a funny Mark story that I haven't told too often. 576 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: Is about three months later we I never I didn't 577 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: know what doc Listen. This was like a loosely the 578 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: internet deals were not handshake deal like I'm a try 579 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: like Fred like, this was like a two person operation. 580 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: Read Sebashian Melbury's book on on the Power law and 581 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: venture capital. Million dollar deals were literally done on a handshake. 582 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 2: He'll come by Monday for a check. Well, the lawyers 583 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: get the documents. It wasn't like a team of it weren't. 584 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: Even standard docks. Everybody. Fred was the the He's the maestro. 585 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: So I'll trust you know, I'm going to get to 586 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: the docks. Anyways. It's tough, is moving very fast. YouTube's 587 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: getting sued. We're distributing our video across one hundred of 588 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: these YouTube channels. Anyways, three months goes in and I 589 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: get a break. I get like New York Times, the 590 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: Gray Lady is going to do a piece on wall strip. 591 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: There were maybe getting six to ten thousand views an episode, 592 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: which is not nothing, but it's nothing in today's world. 593 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: In today's world. But then, oh yeah, who was getting 594 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 2: ten thousand views in a day? 595 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: Not just ten times? It was who was watching? Right, 596 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: That's what I learned about the difference between audience and 597 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: the right audience, right. And so Fred was We were 598 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: all promoting. It was a very cute show, as you know, 599 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: and I was writing in and starring in and producing 600 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: it and I didn't know what I was doing, but 601 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: it was the internet. Anyways. But three months go by 602 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: and you know, we're doing the books. There's no revenue. 603 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: The books are pretty easy to do quickly. Oh we 604 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: burned thirty grand. 605 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: That's called accounting. 606 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: No money is coming in correct. I was wearing that 607 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: hat at night. There was not much accounting to do 608 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: except how many months we have left before we have 609 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: to call Fred for more money. So anyways, ten you know, 610 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm doing the books and there's an extra so we 611 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: get in the New York Times whatever, and now I'm 612 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: like famous, and uh, there's an extra ten grand in 613 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: our account and I'm like yelling at my team and yo, Lindsey. 614 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: Did we do revenue that I don't know about it. 615 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: Mark just dropped off a check and nobody. 616 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: Anybody never told anybody. After he knew we were successful, 617 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: sent him the tent. So I called Fred, I got 618 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: this mother, you know, I called this guys like. 619 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: He was the first, like at the higher valuation. 620 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: Now I ended up we ended up selling the CBS 621 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,239 Speaker 1: long Story shirt a few months later, and he I 622 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: returned multiples on that late money and we've been friends 623 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: ever since. So he was like my newman at the time, 624 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, like in Seinfel, I'd see that Checkicoman thinkers. 625 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: So so anyways, it was just that's what the Internet was. 626 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: It was very cottagy, it was Web two. It was 627 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: just coming out. 628 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: Of such a mark of like the seventies and eighties 629 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: that way you're telling me. Even in the two thousands, 630 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: it was still shockingly rudimentary, rudimentary. 631 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: There was no y combinator, there was no text, there 632 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: was no way this y combinator. Probably seven eight that 633 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: late all right, God, I think because I used to 634 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: go to those events the don't want to be twenty 635 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: thirty people there. 636 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: I remember the nineties. If you were interested in venture capital, 637 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: and you were on the East coast. The only way 638 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: you could learn anything was like Fast Money or I'm sorry, 639 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: a Fast company or Wired magazine, but there was really 640 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: not a lot of media coverage of what was going 641 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: on in the West coast. 642 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: To his credits, she used to write a smart money magazine. 643 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: I was a disciple, and then he started in an 644 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: internet company. 645 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: People don't realize he had an internet. If you're not 646 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: a fan of Kramer today. 647 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: Which I'm not, I'm not going to argue with. 648 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: You, but you have to realize how influential and importance 649 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: a player he was in the in the nineties, in 650 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: the two thousands, he was really you know, between between 651 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 2: running the hedge fund Kramer Berkoitz, between launching the Street 652 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: dot com when nobody really thought, I know, let's do 653 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: a real time finance site that's actually operated by people 654 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 2: running real money, not just a bunch of ministers without portfolios, 655 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: and all the time dropping in on TV doing his hits, 656 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 2: like when he had his finger on the pulse when 657 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: he was running money. He was the man for a 658 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: long time. And now it's a different world, it's a 659 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: different environment, and he's in a different role. But regardless 660 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: of what you think of him today, you've got to 661 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: give him props for what he did in the nineteen nineties. 662 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: He looked away and Fred has great Kramer stories. Anyways, 663 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: what made starts with a wall strip grate is, you know, 664 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: we were doing five six thousand views and I had 665 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: this idea to get Kramer's attention. We would spoof Kramer, right, 666 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: I remember that great story. So I, so I go. 667 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: I said, we can't spoof Kramer. You can't. You can't 668 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: upset the guy. What we'll do is have our Kramer 669 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: give cancer and medical advice. So he's going to have 670 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: a show. He's going to be Kramer that people will 671 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: call with medical question. 672 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 2: Oh god. 673 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: And so we got this method act. Lindsey found one 674 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: of her friends who was a method actor who looked 675 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot like Kramer, and we said, listen, go into 676 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: that room, listen to one hundred hours of Kramer, be 677 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: Jim Kramer, and then we're going to create like a set, 678 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: and you were going to give advice with people calling 679 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: in for medical proms. Anyways, he was so mad Kramer. 680 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: Oh no, he doesn't have a sense of humor like 681 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: So Anyways, this leads to our acquisition. So Kramer wants 682 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: to buy us to get us off the end. Oh 683 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,479 Speaker 1: really yeah yeah? So Street dot Com calls me after 684 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: the show and goes, we'll buy you. I'm like, by me, 685 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,479 Speaker 1: I don't know. I was for set, like, I didn't 686 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: know what I was doing. We had no revenue. I 687 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: had ten grands showing up in the ether. We had 688 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: nothing but expenses. Barry, it wasn't like the nineties where 689 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: you had to build a business like my he was 690 00:34:59,000 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: a little bit of green. 691 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: Now this is like by so we'll do another parody. 692 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: This is how I got into VC. So straight Tack says, 693 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: we'll give you this amount of money and I say deal. 694 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: Like I'm like, I'm like Kramer and Seinfeld. I'm like, 695 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: just build hot coffee on me. Don't accept the first offer. 696 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, deal, Kramer, you got me. So I call 697 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: Fred Wilson. I go, Fred, I go, you know, friend's 698 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: my board. I go, Fred, what do I do? He goes, 699 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know you want to sell? You call them 700 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: back and like he you know, Friend's like. 701 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 2: He walked you through to Yeah, he says, I guess 702 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: there's a competitive bidding. 703 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: Correct Fred, Fred makes it makes a few calls like 704 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: the next damn at CBS, and I have no idea. 705 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: You got to understand, you know me, right, I'm literally 706 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: a nobody, clueless, clueless, you know, obviously good instincts. I'm 707 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: not going to completely terrorize myself, but good instincts, great 708 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: people around me. Lesson number two, you've got to know 709 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: your cap table. You've got to build trust. You've got 710 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: to have great people around you. So I made the 711 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: one call, Fred goes Howard, you want to sell, gotta 712 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: have it. If you didn't know you wanted to sell, 713 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: let's get blah blah blah. Actually know, I'm in CBS's 714 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: office at black Rock. This table is big as Bloomberg headquarters. 715 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: And you got Quincy Smith, who is a great guy. Uh, 716 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: he's running CBS Interactive. And Mike Markus is a dear 717 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: friend of mine. 718 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: Today when wasn't marked, they had already acquired market Watch 719 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 2: by then, right. 720 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, a long time earlier. Yeah, Bill Bishop and those guys, 721 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: great guy Newby, And they go, hey, here, you want 722 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: to sell. And I don't even know how to prepare 723 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: for this, man, I go maybe, and they go, what's 724 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: Street dot COM's number? And like I literally was no, 725 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: I made up a number. Yeah, and they go, we'll 726 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: double it, and I go, deal again. Agad, I've hit 727 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: the table. I'm like nobody in the room with me 728 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: to like stop me. And then I go, but you 729 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: know what. The one thing I said, you know what, 730 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: let me call my board and I remember quinc. They go, 731 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 1: we'll wait. I'm like, I thought i'd have twenty four hours. 732 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: We'll wait here, and I'm like, so I trample out 733 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: of the boardroom. I call Fred on my starteker. You go, 734 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: Frett CBS offered me Doublewstreet dot Com. He goes, well, 735 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: do you want to do the deal? And I said, dude, 736 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: I mean it's a lot of mon It's been six months, 737 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: I said, I think I do. We have no revenue. 738 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't see how we're going to make 739 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 2: this work. Yeah, I'm like, it's a rescue plan before 740 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 2: we run out of month. 741 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: Correct. 742 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: This was, and and they have the infrastructure to monetize 743 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 2: it if they want. 744 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: To do that. I for a minute think I'm going 745 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: to be famous. My and my old think me coming 746 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: out of the room, I'm going to be on Letterman. 747 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to. 748 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 2: Have a show, right, Women on the crappy little website 749 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: for a. 750 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 1: Barely I was now an executive at CBS. Right. Yeah. 751 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: It was like if there was a balloon coming out 752 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: of my head. I'm like, just bring me green eminem stat. 753 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 2: So you want the green M and ms out of Yeah, And. 754 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: So I call, I said, Fred, goes, walk back in 755 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: there and you tell them that you won't shop the 756 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: deal if they add another. 757 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 2: Too too right, And I said. 758 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: Can I do that, fredday? Because you hang up and 759 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: you walk back and I go, okay, and I'm wearing 760 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: like my crocs, I think, and sunglasses. I'm not prepared 761 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: for this meeting. And I walked back in and I said, listen, 762 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: I talked to my board and you know, for an 763 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: extra two I won't shop it. And they go deal 764 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: and I go, hang on, they go get the out 765 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: of our offer. So that was how my deal with 766 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,479 Speaker 1: CBS st Oh my god, that's hilarious. And literally half 767 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: my investors had not finished signing their paperwork when we 768 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: returned the money, so it was just had an MBA. 769 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 1: I was supposed to know what I was doing. I'd 770 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: like to tell people, you know, people look up to me, 771 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, but i'd like to give the on story 772 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: is what made that successful, right idea right time. I 773 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: had no ego about the exit that I was building 774 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: something better than anybody else. I had incredible people around me, 775 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: lindsay running the show over exceeded anything that you could expect. 776 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: I found these people on Craigslist, right, they were just 777 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: and it was a miracle craigs on the internet, on 778 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: the Internet. So I don't know, it was just one 779 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: of the greatest stressful, fun interesting times in my life. 780 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: And I met great people and that's kind of what 781 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: got me started a point. We're out of time. Let 782 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: you know now, how. 783 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 2: I asked one question, thanks for coming. That's all the 784 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 2: time we have the sale of woolstrip. The next step 785 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: from there was that social leverage. Tell us a little 786 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 2: bit about that. 787 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: So so wallstrip. I'm working at CBS, and uh I 788 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: pitched them this idea, what like my best idea I've 789 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: ever had. So you know, there was this moment where 790 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: I said I was going to be famous and CBS goes, Okay, Quench, 791 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: she goes go meet the TV people. They're gonna love you. 792 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: They did not want to meet me. So I have 793 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: this idea for a show for them because they asked 794 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: me to pitch them a show. I thought they bought 795 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: my shot. I thought they owned me. So I stay 796 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: up for three days. I'm writing furiously a show idea. 797 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: And my show idea is very simple. It's like after Dark, 798 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: where ever a guest comes on Letterman or their after 799 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 1: show that that guess when I come over to this studio, 800 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: the creepy studio, and there'd be a comedian and they 801 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: would just talk about what's in their wallet? You know, 802 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: the celebrity would talk about money. Yeah, oh okay, there 803 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: would just be a show about money. Hey, show me 804 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: a wallet. What credit card do you use? Have you 805 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: ever been screwed by your financial manager? You know what 806 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: I mean? If you got to go to Vegas and 807 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: need ten grand, how do you do it right? It'd 808 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: be an interesting look to how famous people spend. 809 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 2: If you get in to eat hot wings at the 810 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: same time, that's a show. 811 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: That's a show. So they threw me out of the building. Yeah, 812 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: and that was my end. I was so by that day. 813 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: That was hard. I was Clarence Beaks from that print, 814 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: Who's Clarence Beaks? I was collecting a paycheck and no 815 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 1: job and Twitter. You know, in the background Twitter now 816 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: starts and I saw Twitter and I said, this is Bloomberg. 817 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,839 Speaker 1: My first call was to Fred Wilson with Twitter. We 818 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: were all making fun of Twitter back in the day 819 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: before iPhone, you were everybody was. I was using it 820 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: and I was telling people where I went to the bathroom. Hey, 821 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: I took a pe at this restaurant. And the vcs 822 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: thought I was funny because it was really vcs on 823 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: Twitter at that time too. 824 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 2: It was journalists and venture capitalists. 825 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: So I went to friend, I said, Fred, this is Bloomberg. 826 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: If I if the president ever, this is like a 827 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: blog poster. When the president tweets about the economy, the 828 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: market will move. And Fred goes, that's very clever. You 829 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: should start a company. I go, Fred, I'm working for CBS. 830 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: And that's where stock twits came out. I went to 831 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: Jack and Ev at the time and I said. 832 00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 2: So, now at this time, Twitter's pretty small, and you. 833 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: Walking Twitter is very small. Yeah, what is. 834 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 2: There fifty million people on Twitter? No, not that any 835 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 2: uh ten million people. 836 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: Brew to invested. I passed on that investment call. 837 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a you know, you could have sold 838 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 2: it to some idiot for forty four billion dollars. 839 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: This show is not Howard's a genius. It's called Masters 840 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: and dismals. You have to have losses to become a master. 841 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: So true. 842 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 2: So I that is very true, young grasshopper. 843 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: So I go to Jack and Av and I said, 844 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: Twitter dot find this is my pitch to them. I 845 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: go Twitter dot finance dot com. I said, people will 846 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: talk about stocks on here, and they were like, Kumbaya, 847 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: what about green peas and all that stuff? 848 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 2: That's just that's screenpiece Twitter. This is finance Twitter. 849 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: And finance Twitter, the original fin Twitter idea. And they 850 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: were like, you should just you know, we have an 851 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: open API, which is a trap plug in. Yeah, plug in, 852 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: So build your entire company on our continuing goodwill and 853 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: whim correct. So this was not smart I made. It's smart. 854 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: You know, it depends how you look at it. You know, 855 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: some days I love the idea, some days I'm like wow. 856 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: But I went back and I said, listen, I got 857 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: two choices. I can either just give it away for free, 858 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: which you know, I started the cash tag dollars something 859 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: AAPL dollars on r I m M. Because my idea was, 860 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: how do you separate people talking about green apples, from 861 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: people saying they love the Apple store. 862 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 2: The stock symbol, yeah, like a hashtag only a. 863 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,919 Speaker 1: Dollar because people already and finance spoke the language of tickers. Yep. 864 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: It was a clever hack, uh, And I created it 865 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: with the team and we just started tweeting with dollar 866 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: signs and it caught on. 867 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: Right. 868 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: So now I had a decision to make because people, 869 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: because I told my last company, all the vcs were like, Howard, 870 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: what are you doing? What are you working on? 871 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 2: Right? 872 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 1: And I'm the idiot that just said well this and 873 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: people and I said, but I don't know, like how 874 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: am I going to make money? You know? 875 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 2: I don't really get that. 876 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I felt trapped to the very things we 877 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: make fun of other people for is like and just 878 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 1: goes to today's lessons. You know, just because you have 879 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,280 Speaker 1: an idea doesn't mean it should be venture backed. So kids, today, 880 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: that's a lesson for you. Not everything needs venture capital. 881 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: But at that time it was nirvana, right because there 882 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: was just organic growth very important. Lesson organic growth is 883 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: growth other kind of growth, not so growthy growth, organic. 884 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 2: As opposed to well it. 885 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: GBT, that's organic growth. The world loves organic growth because 886 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: it's a mystery, it's a miracle. Well, two thousand and 887 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: six was a miracle. You have Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, aws, 888 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: the coming of the iPhone, the app store, you know 889 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: what I mean, this was all to come. 890 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 2: Well, we were still the crashes. Is far enough in 891 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 2: our recent history five six years earlier that some of 892 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 2: the wounds are starting to heal. People are starting, the 893 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 2: market is up off the low's pretty essentially before the 894 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 2: eight o nine prices market, So people are starting to 895 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 2: look around and saying, hey, what's going on out here. 896 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: But it was organic growth. You didn't have to force 897 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 1: somebody like a crypto walle to force feed it down 898 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: their throat. This is the future. It was just happening. 899 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,439 Speaker 2: Plus, you had all of the late nineties infrastructure built out, 900 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 2: the miles of fiber optic cable and all of the 901 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 2: various hardware upgrades. Was just waiting for something to be 902 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 2: built on top of it. Web two oh as you 903 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,760 Speaker 2: called it. And these were all those companies that were 904 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 2: taking advantage of cheap postcrash prices. 905 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the smartest thing I ever did in this 906 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: where social ever start is I took everything I made 907 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,399 Speaker 1: and just redistributed it to everybody I saw doing a. 908 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 2: Startup around just every company shing. 909 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: That I saw. I wrote a twenty five. I ran 910 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: out of money quickly, but I layered the world with 911 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,399 Speaker 1: my twenty five. 912 00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 2: Give us some names that we might be familiar with. 913 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: The most famous is golf now, LifeLock, Buddy Media, to Mogul, 914 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: ticket Fly, tweet Deck, Bitly, Surmise, Beta Work, the uber Yeah, 915 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: so okay, so angel List. I was an investor in 916 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: So all these things came from me just being in 917 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: the mix and knowing Fred and reading blogs and just 918 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 1: being part of the community. And I was at the 919 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: right place. Intimes, this doesn't happen very often. I think 920 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: the AI some AI machine experts now are going to 921 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: be in this place. But we that was organic growth. 922 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: That was the first real Internet. The Internet of ninety 923 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: nine was infrastructure and promise. The Internet of five and 924 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: six was the user's mass user onboarding. So you have 925 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: you know, as well as I've done, I was supposed 926 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,360 Speaker 1: to do well if you were alive and writing checks 927 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six to twenty eleven. Hard not 928 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: to make money, correct, So so remember that as a 929 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: master's in business lesson being in the right place at 930 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: the right time with the checkbook matters. 931 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 2: So that alignment doesn't come along very often. How do 932 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 2: you recognize, like at the time and you just spreading 933 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 2: the manure, hoping all the plants grow, are you thinking, wow, 934 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 2: this is a target rich environment and I got to 935 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 2: have a little bit in everything. 936 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: It's a good question because I didn't have that much 937 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: money the idea, and you run on a money fast 938 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: even when you're reading. 939 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 2: Yah, fifty checks and you're you know, that's. 940 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 1: Fifty checks in quickly. You know, I was flying Israel, 941 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: I did e Toro, and I'm and I'm also running 942 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: stock twits, which is also an extra benefit because everybody's 943 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: pitching me ideas, you're right in the middle. It leads 944 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,760 Speaker 1: to the Robin Hood story later. But so everybody's pitching 945 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,879 Speaker 1: the ideas. I'm running a company, I'm writing twenty five 946 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,359 Speaker 1: k checks, I'm talking to everybody that matters, and there's 947 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: organic growth. No one was faking it. It was just ballooning. 948 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 1: Whatever you did had traffic, not fake. It may not 949 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: be leverlasting, but it was real. 950 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 2: So the name social leverage obviously comes from the people 951 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,839 Speaker 2: that you met on the first round that you began 952 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,240 Speaker 2: to socialize with. Suddenly everybody's in everybody else's deals, everybody 953 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 2: else is seeing what's going on, so happens. 954 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: And also, most importantly, the end of financial leverage. So 955 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: there's a play on words going back to my comedy 956 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: is like, we are coming out of this era where 957 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 1: we realize that financial leverage is not a strategy, it's 958 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: a tool. Okay, So my play on words here was 959 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 1: that social leverage is infinite. You and me doing this podcast, 960 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: me starting my own podcast. This all is leverage from 961 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: the network. Right, financial leverage almost brought down the system. 962 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 2: So your social leverage is deal flow, connections, fun, access 963 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 2: to start founders, access. 964 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: Low capital requirement. It was just a moment of the 965 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,839 Speaker 1: opposite of what brought down the system. But no one 966 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: really dove in. Most people think, hey, you give them 967 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: back to social good. Go No, I'm pro oil. So 968 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,880 Speaker 1: there is people go, I don't want to invest with 969 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,799 Speaker 1: a guy who's investing in the social good, And. 970 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, do you drive a car then shut up? 971 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 972 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 2: But by the way I digression, I don't understand the 973 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 2: whole low carbon investments. We're gonna not give any money 974 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 2: to the carbon producers instead will give money to the 975 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 2: carbon consumers. How are you moving the needle there? If 976 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,560 Speaker 2: you're against oil and want to see alternatives come up, 977 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 2: isn't there a better way to do it than saying 978 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 2: we're just going to give money to people who use carbon? 979 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, climate now is a big category for PCs 980 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: and I'm not in it, but there's big developments happening. 981 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 2: If you want to invest in alternative energy, well put 982 00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 2: your money in there because there's a ton of promise. 983 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 2: That fine, But to say no, Mobile, we're just going 984 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,359 Speaker 2: to invest in ups and FedEx, Amazon, you know this 985 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 2: way will not spoil the environment is just kind of misguided. 986 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. So social levels is just to play on words. 987 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:19,800 Speaker 2: Right, So so we're from well from from social leverage. 988 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 1: Where do you go from there? 989 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 2: How do you as a venture investor? How do you 990 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,320 Speaker 2: think about what you're putting money into? Are you? What 991 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 2: is it about the management team? Is it about the 992 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,840 Speaker 2: product idea? Is it about the valuation? 993 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: What? 994 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 2: What's the decision making process? 995 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,239 Speaker 1: It's a great question. Everybody's different. You know. Luckily my 996 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 1: mentors Brad Feld, Fred what these are like some of 997 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,080 Speaker 1: the great stars? 998 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Rock start begging Fred to come in the show. 999 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 2: Seven years He's like, I don't really do podcasts, all right, 1000 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 2: Well I'll corner him. I met him somewhere else. 1001 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,439 Speaker 1: How Morgan shows up Roger Ehrenberg. So so I got 1002 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: very lucky because at that time, remember you're coming out 1003 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: of a nasty bear market. These guys were not. So 1004 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: this is like as like, yeah, these people were coming 1005 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: out of getting their ass kicked for five years and 1006 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,840 Speaker 1: lawsuits and IPOs that went down ninety five percent. So 1007 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 1: these were not famous people. These were people that were 1008 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: deemed idiots again and truly not idiots, but you know 1009 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: what I mean, they were out of favor. 1010 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 2: You're only you're only as good as your last trade. 1011 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,759 Speaker 1: Correct. So these people were beat up, but they were 1012 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,440 Speaker 1: all smart and they in my team capital. They had capital. 1013 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,719 Speaker 1: They survived, They kept their reputation attack by communicating with 1014 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,320 Speaker 1: their investors. There's a cycle, and they caught the next cycle. 1015 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,160 Speaker 1: Now this cycle. They what what happens to great investors 1016 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: after they go through a cycle. If they're great, they 1017 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,399 Speaker 1: become great investors because they have memory and they have 1018 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 1: a new muscle that they learned that markets go down 1019 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 1: right right like guess what. Fred hates the stock market 1020 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: because he meant, you know, he became a VC. He's like, 1021 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: my job is to invest early, and if I have 1022 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,720 Speaker 1: a chance to sell, I'm not going to be greedy. 1023 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,879 Speaker 1: So luckily I had this great group of mentors, and 1024 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,920 Speaker 1: like you, they were blogging. Not only were they blogging, 1025 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: they were blogging about stuff that I couldn't get in 1026 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 1: a textbook. 1027 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 2: They were wis blog of vc AVC. 1028 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: And brad feldfel dot com and wrote ther Eremberg at 1029 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: the time, and there it's like, well was Erenburg's blog 1030 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: I event information arbitrage and he was a great writer. 1031 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,760 Speaker 1: You and obviously I have stocks now I have hundreds 1032 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,279 Speaker 1: of writers. And then you know, they just gave this 1033 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: stuff away and they owned their domain, so there wasn't 1034 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 1: any problems. Like you wrote on Fred's blog, you had 1035 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: to go to Fred's blog. He linked to other people, 1036 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,360 Speaker 1: they picked up the phone. Everybody was moving fast. It 1037 00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: was just organic get the speed going. And so it's 1038 00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: just a miracle. And what we focused on was good 1039 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,840 Speaker 1: people and big ideas because you could glob onto Facebook 1040 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 1: and Twitter, so that that attracted. 1041 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 2: So how did you become a pre IPO investor in 1042 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 2: stocks like Facebook and Twitter. 1043 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,160 Speaker 1: So at Twitter fred because of Wallstrip, he wrote, the 1044 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 1: first they led, the first three million dollar round on 1045 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,359 Speaker 1: Twitter had a seventeen million valuation. Think about that right, 1046 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: Like today that seems normal. Back then I was Wallstrip 1047 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,839 Speaker 1: was like a four hundred k valuation. I was doing 1048 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,760 Speaker 1: deals one on two, six hundred grand on one million. 1049 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,760 Speaker 1: Like founders were giving up forty percent of their business. 1050 00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: We were coming out of like a hard time like 1051 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 1: we use kids today, but back then it was like 1052 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,839 Speaker 1: you're giving up meaty chunks of the business. So things 1053 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: had to move very fast. But really you were betting 1054 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: on people. It wasn't so much price because everything was 1055 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,520 Speaker 1: cheap because you were coming out of that open Much 1056 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,799 Speaker 1: of it didn't happen yet. 1057 00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 2: Mark Andriesen said, all right, so imagine we overpaid double 1058 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 2: for Facebook. Who cares it's a six thousand percent return 1059 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 2: instead of a twelve thousand percent. What does it make 1060 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:08,760 Speaker 2: a difference? 1061 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: It does now at these levels, at these So what 1062 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: happened is that story got you know when you say 1063 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,919 Speaker 1: it a thousand times and the twelfth kid graduating twenty 1064 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: years later says the same thing. 1065 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,319 Speaker 2: It doesn't work It's a difference, and that's why I. 1066 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:27,080 Speaker 1: Flash forward today. But back then, yes, so twitterh so Twitter, 1067 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: I had passed. I said, fret, how am I going 1068 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,719 Speaker 1: to make twenty times my money? I had my VC 1069 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: hat on for an hour and I go fret. Twitter 1070 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,920 Speaker 1: would have to be worth half a billion dollars for 1071 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: me to make worth my while. So of course I passed. 1072 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 1: Now Fred taught me a lesson there and he said, Howard, 1073 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,799 Speaker 1: if you love everything about the product and the team, 1074 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 1: Gorgier knows about the press. But I'm Canadian. This goes 1075 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,759 Speaker 1: back to what I said, I'm conservative and believing I 1076 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,839 Speaker 1: just mentally couldn't do a model like these guys because 1077 00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,879 Speaker 1: social leverage hadn't been around that long. Network effects were new, 1078 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: So it was mind boggling to think that the president 1079 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,560 Speaker 1: would tweet like Trump or the La Musk would be 1080 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,279 Speaker 1: the richest guy in the world at the time. 1081 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,280 Speaker 2: So this is, by the way, mentioning the president tweeting. 1082 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,400 Speaker 2: You have to look at the four years of the 1083 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 2: Trump administration exactly what I asked, golden opportunity for Twitter 1084 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 2: to turn into something. How did they blow that opportunity? 1085 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:25,080 Speaker 1: That? 1086 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,360 Speaker 2: I guess that post mortem is not your expertise, your 1087 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 2: pre mortem, you're your much earlier states. 1088 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,959 Speaker 1: Well, my pre mortem was going to Jack and Evan 1089 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: visualizing that for them and saying, wrap a terminal around Twitter, 1090 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 1: delay the feed thirty seconds for everybody. So imagine you know, 1091 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: I go to Ted Mertch as a friend of mine. 1092 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,319 Speaker 1: He was Bloomberg here for twenty years. I used to 1093 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,360 Speaker 1: come to this building. He's the guy who put the 1094 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 1: sung hero. 1095 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 2: He put Twitter on the terminal. So because for a 1096 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,719 Speaker 2: lot of people, Twitter became the new tape and they 1097 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,840 Speaker 2: were Bloomberg was smart enough to say, we have to 1098 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,760 Speaker 2: have this in our feed. People can't find out about 1099 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 2: it after the fact, and they came up with a 1100 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 2: very clever way to cure it. 1101 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,879 Speaker 1: Bloomberg didn't come up with the key, Howard and Ted 1102 00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,359 Speaker 1: came up. Well, I mean I used to call on Ted. 1103 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,959 Speaker 1: I used to come in here, go to the sixth 1104 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,840 Speaker 1: floor or a suit, complain that there was no candy, 1105 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: and go what kind of mental cases don't have candy 1106 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: in there in their in their hallway? And I would 1107 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,719 Speaker 1: call on Ted. It was I would call Ted, I 1108 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 1: don't understand. I go, you guys are this is a 1109 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,239 Speaker 1: dangerous problem for you to have outside the walls like 1110 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,280 Speaker 1: Jurassic Park. I go, trades are happening. 1111 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:39,920 Speaker 2: You can't have trades away. 1112 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: And so I said, one day, your headphones are going 1113 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,120 Speaker 1: to start screaming at you that news is breaking outside 1114 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,799 Speaker 1: the terminal. So Ted understood all that, he went and 1115 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,280 Speaker 1: cut the deal of the century. I imagine with Twitter, 1116 00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,279 Speaker 1: some poor sales kid nipped inside Twitter comes to Bloomberg 1117 00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:00,239 Speaker 1: like a like a cob into a and try to 1118 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,560 Speaker 1: be order. Tries to meet Twitter's quarter in twenty eleven, 1119 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,360 Speaker 1: comes home with like a thirty million I don't know 1120 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,000 Speaker 1: what the number is, like a ten year Bloomberg deal. 1121 00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,000 Speaker 1: What it was? Good time? So this is me yelling 1122 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,560 Speaker 1: at Doctor's going idiots like I go Jack. That's why 1123 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: I was always mad at management. Don't sell to the 1124 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:25,760 Speaker 1: one customer who violutely needs the data. So this is 1125 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,680 Speaker 1: where Twitter's mistake was, and Fredick agrees with it. I 1126 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: would go to FREDI go fret, get over to that 1127 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,880 Speaker 1: board meeting, and you tell Jack and Ev to delay 1128 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,840 Speaker 1: the feed thirty seconds. Somebody will call you and pay 1129 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: you a billion dollars to get it in real time 1130 00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,360 Speaker 1: and charge that company. And that's going to be Bloomberg, Reuters, 1131 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: some Warren Buffett, Goldman, Sachs, somebody they can afford to 1132 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 1: pay you. And if Justin Timberlake farts at a concert, 1133 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,000 Speaker 1: if someone reads it a minute later, it doesn't matter, right. 1134 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: But if a player injures itself in sports, or if 1135 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,000 Speaker 1: the president tweets or been Lodden gets shot, right, the 1136 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,600 Speaker 1: futures will move. And that was their business idea. They 1137 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,000 Speaker 1: kind of had ten employees and they blew it. Yeah, 1138 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,200 Speaker 1: and so I always still give about that idea. 1139 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,560 Speaker 2: I still don't understand why Twitter didn't or doesn't acquire 1140 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,040 Speaker 2: stock to It's it's such a now. 1141 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 1: It's not even about structors. They should have bought DraftKings. 1142 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,640 Speaker 1: They should have Robinhood. They should have been a broker dealer. 1143 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: There should have been a gambling they should have made 1144 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,040 Speaker 1: money off the transaction. 1145 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,400 Speaker 2: They think they have this crazy idea that they air. 1146 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,720 Speaker 2: They're the town square. 1147 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: You know what's in the town scores. A lot of 1148 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: poop and a lot of crazy people. You know why 1149 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,200 Speaker 1: you can't drink out of the nile because people peeing 1150 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,760 Speaker 1: it for a thousand years. The town Score is a dirty, 1151 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 1: dirty place. 1152 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 2: So you end up with a sort of area that 1153 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 2: is central to so many people's It's got nexus of 1154 00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:03,240 Speaker 2: so many industry correct and so many journalists and celebrities 1155 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,680 Speaker 2: and finance people. And you know, there's medical Twitter, and 1156 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,720 Speaker 2: there's black Twitter, and there's finance Twitter, and there's you know, 1157 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,920 Speaker 2: I get dragged into I mentioned I set up a 1158 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,120 Speaker 2: list of watch companies, right, watch Twitter, Like you have 1159 00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 2: all these communities, and it's astonishing that nobody's figured out 1160 00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:23,680 Speaker 2: a way to monitor it. 1161 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,400 Speaker 1: Because it was an open protocol. Like when Fred invested, 1162 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,840 Speaker 1: he envisioned it as an open protocol. What do they do? 1163 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 1: They closed it. It's okay to close it to the 1164 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,200 Speaker 1: people that can afford to pay to open it, not 1165 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,040 Speaker 1: to the regular people. Charging me eight dollars for something 1166 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,200 Speaker 1: i'd pay five grand is not good business, right. Charging 1167 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,000 Speaker 1: me eight dollars for something I'm not willing to pay 1168 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,320 Speaker 1: eight dollars for is not good business. So that was 1169 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,520 Speaker 1: the mistake. You have the Nile River, it's just filled 1170 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: with data, right, and you decide to let everybody pissing it. 1171 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,000 Speaker 2: Right, And that's the crazy thing is Twitter is a 1172 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,200 Speaker 2: data source, is really. 1173 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,480 Speaker 1: Especially in an air of machine learning. Right, So this 1174 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,080 Speaker 1: word elon could come out. Okay, having a unique data 1175 01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,320 Speaker 1: set we're jumping around here, but having a unique data 1176 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,480 Speaker 1: set in twenty twenty three, like stock twits, does quadruples 1177 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: our value because people are doing things. You can't get 1178 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,800 Speaker 1: to apply our model, your LM or your model to 1179 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,160 Speaker 1: real time financial people that talk about stocks all day long. 1180 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:20,440 Speaker 1: You have to have our data. 1181 01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's circle back to social leverage. We talked 1182 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,120 Speaker 2: about what you've done on the media side. We've talked 1183 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,800 Speaker 2: about finance side. What else does social leverage focus on? 1184 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,360 Speaker 2: Is it just you know, finance and media or do 1185 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,920 Speaker 2: you look at tech and other things? 1186 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,440 Speaker 1: So, yeah, we're investing out of our fourth fund. It's 1187 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,960 Speaker 1: one hundred million dollar fund. We went from six million. 1188 01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,400 Speaker 2: And you're closed. You're done, We're closed. 1189 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we we we raised six million for our 1190 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,240 Speaker 1: first fund. That fund had Robinhood in it, right last. 1191 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:51,960 Speaker 2: The second we'll talk about Robinhood. 1192 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Second fund had some more Robinhood and a company called 1193 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,600 Speaker 1: Customer and a few other great companies h both. 1194 01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:58,840 Speaker 2: How big was the second fund? 1195 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,760 Speaker 1: Twenty just two of us and then we brought on 1196 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: our third partner, Gary Bennett, who had sold US company 1197 01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:05,960 Speaker 1: to Salesforce and we were doing a lot of enterprise 1198 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,440 Speaker 1: and healthcare. And that's our third fund, which was forty right, 1199 01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 1: and we we liked the capital constrained model. And then 1200 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,960 Speaker 1: our fourth fund will which will be like where we 1201 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 1: settle in at the future is one hundred million dollar fun. 1202 01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,440 Speaker 2: And you're still doing very early see right. 1203 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,400 Speaker 1: One to two million dollars check. We lead rounds. We 1204 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,880 Speaker 1: don't have sharp elbows, meaning we don't have if someone 1205 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,080 Speaker 1: wants to put their name first, they can't put their 1206 01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: name first. It's about the ten years stuff. So we 1207 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:35,360 Speaker 1: like to win. Now, what's changes. Social leverage has evolved 1208 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: because the markets move. So I was very heavy and 1209 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,160 Speaker 1: financial services stuck, which was a great lead. Jon Engine. 1210 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: We invested in Rally, Royd road cooy Fin E, Toro, Robinhood, Alpaca, 1211 01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: Very Finance. Why charts you know, so I didn't realize 1212 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,040 Speaker 1: you and why yeah first check and so so yeah, 1213 01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,160 Speaker 1: sixty thousand dollars check to Sean Carpenter when running White 1214 01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,680 Speaker 1: Charts and it's a great business. The old chard i 1215 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,480 Speaker 1: Q which just sold to S and P. So we 1216 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 1: really I covered if you were going to build a 1217 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. And again this is Twitter screwing this up. 1218 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,040 Speaker 1: Twitter should about all these companies and just giving it 1219 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,640 Speaker 1: stuff away, right, just giving it away for fifty one 1220 01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,920 Speaker 1: hundred bucks a Mike, create a two hundred dollars a 1221 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,400 Speaker 1: month Bloomberg terminal that's open. 1222 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 2: They've never no one has ever been able to do. 1223 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,160 Speaker 1: That, including me. If I don't have the bay the terminal, 1224 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,720 Speaker 1: it'll still happen. There'll be a roll up post this crash. No, 1225 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,640 Speaker 1: there'll be a role. I think, well, there will be 1226 01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: an effort. I'm not saying it'll be correct. Why wouldn't you. 1227 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,600 Speaker 1: You can buy fintech askeids for ninety cents off the 1228 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:40,360 Speaker 1: doll You. 1229 01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 2: Could go back over the past twenty years, and every 1230 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,600 Speaker 2: three or four years there's a story about this is 1231 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,439 Speaker 2: finally the end of the Bloomberg terminal, and six months 1232 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,120 Speaker 2: later they're at old time highs in terms of users. Sorry, 1233 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:53,640 Speaker 2: nobody has ever been able to do it. 1234 01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,280 Speaker 1: Let me be clear, Berry, you cannot disrupt them. Didn't 1235 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,320 Speaker 1: mean it that way, but I mean that's been the 1236 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:03,200 Speaker 1: intense stupid intent. There's things you can't be right, Okay, 1237 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,400 Speaker 1: you can't beat open So I'm not going to go 1238 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 1: take on open AI. I meant it works. Okay, you 1239 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 1: can't take on the Bloomer. That doesn't mean rich people 1240 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: won't try. But network effects are very powerful. Okay, centralized 1241 01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,000 Speaker 1: network effects are very powerful. The second thing that Bloomberg 1242 01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 1: has is the right customer, of course, and the third 1243 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,880 Speaker 1: thing that Bloomberg has is a will to not lose. 1244 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:32,880 Speaker 1: What Bloomberg got right was esthetics, talent, uh, not not 1245 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 1: giving an. 1246 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:38,919 Speaker 2: Inch, stability, rock when support right? When was the last 1247 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,040 Speaker 2: time you heard about the terminal going down? But Twitter? 1248 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,880 Speaker 2: You know, every other week you were hearing about that 1249 01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:45,600 Speaker 2: for how long? 1250 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:47,800 Speaker 1: Early on Twitter could have set up a customer support 1251 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,720 Speaker 1: desk for five hundred a month and said call us, 1252 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,520 Speaker 1: we'll build you lists instead of what you know they 1253 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,919 Speaker 1: sell the hard work. 1254 01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,000 Speaker 2: I have a behavioral finance list. I have a I 1255 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:00,680 Speaker 2: have everybody in my phone. I'm on a list. I 1256 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,520 Speaker 2: see everything that everybody tweets in case anybody that says 1257 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 2: anything non compliant. Compliance tracks that. Also, the watch list 1258 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,720 Speaker 2: is just sort of fun. I have a car list 1259 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:16,000 Speaker 2: that's fun like that, sort of curated lists. I still, 1260 01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 2: to this day don't understand why Twitter doesn't promote these 1261 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 2: sorts of things. They're amazing science and technology. I have 1262 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,240 Speaker 2: a list like that that has like seventy thousand followers. 1263 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:25,959 Speaker 2: I don't know how that true. 1264 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,520 Speaker 1: I'll give you my thesis. My thesis is organic growth, 1265 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 1: Well great is also a drug and it got it 1266 01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,680 Speaker 1: infected people's brains, meaning, hey, we already won America, let's 1267 01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,920 Speaker 1: go to China. You know how long it took like 1268 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg to open at second office. I imagine ten years. 1269 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,080 Speaker 1: You know fast, Twitter and Facebook and even Robinhood were 1270 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,680 Speaker 1: opening offices in China year two like no one. So 1271 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm saying organic growth was a drug that forced people 1272 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,479 Speaker 1: to think that they were smarter than they were, grow 1273 01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,520 Speaker 1: faster than they were. And oh and by the way, 1274 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,440 Speaker 1: there was zero percent interest rate and venture capitalists were 1275 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,080 Speaker 1: lining up to give you money. Howard. 1276 01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:09,960 Speaker 2: In addition to running a venture fund, Social Leverage also 1277 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,919 Speaker 2: hosts a podcast called Panic with Friends. So I got 1278 01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,400 Speaker 2: so many questions to ask you about. First, what what 1279 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,200 Speaker 2: is this podcast? Then you you talk about well. 1280 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,120 Speaker 1: You started there was there was podcasts a thing now 1281 01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:25,640 Speaker 1: a little bit. 1282 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:27,960 Speaker 2: Should I look into this? 1283 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,800 Speaker 1: You should? So, I think the podcast is popular in 1284 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,360 Speaker 1: general because you get to have these conversations with people 1285 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,360 Speaker 1: conan being a perfect example. I listen to comedy podcasts, 1286 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,560 Speaker 1: so I listened to Kore and Conan is just so talented. 1287 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,200 Speaker 2: So he he happens to be just quick digression, which 1288 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,800 Speaker 2: you and I both can't help but do. When I 1289 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:55,840 Speaker 2: was pitching Masters in Business to Bloomberg, I pitched it 1290 01:05:55,960 --> 01:06:00,400 Speaker 2: as Mark Maron meets Charlie Rose and Mark Man is 1291 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,320 Speaker 2: one of the original pot And by the way, that's 1292 01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,520 Speaker 2: back when Charlie Rose pants on who nobody knows going 1293 01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:12,080 Speaker 2: on but Mark Marin. He was the first guy doing 1294 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,960 Speaker 2: long form interviews with people in his industry. And he's 1295 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:21,200 Speaker 2: a stand up and a television show producer. But it's 1296 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,160 Speaker 2: let me bring in my friends from the world to 1297 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,600 Speaker 2: stand up comedy and let's dissect what makes something fun. 1298 01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:31,000 Speaker 1: Correct so inspired like like Jerry's show, inspired by What 1299 01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,200 Speaker 1: You Do, inspired by Conan. I started my own podcast 1300 01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,640 Speaker 1: in March tenth of twenty twenty. So the market the 1301 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:38,360 Speaker 1: vix was like. 1302 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 2: Oh, so weird, not quite shut down yet, I feel 1303 01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,080 Speaker 2: like to shut. 1304 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,520 Speaker 1: Down in the you know, and I'm like, people were 1305 01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:49,280 Speaker 1: freaking out. As kind of a service to myself and 1306 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,840 Speaker 1: my next yeah, and a service to my network to 1307 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,240 Speaker 1: be able to talk to like Fred Wilson and Jim 1308 01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,160 Speaker 1: O'Shaughnessy and you. I said, why don't I just for 1309 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:03,280 Speaker 1: the thirty days document the panic and start the show 1310 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,880 Speaker 1: called Panic with Friends, where we are our calm voice. 1311 01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 1: So my first inclination with COVID was this will pass. Obviously, 1312 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:11,120 Speaker 1: because by the. 1313 01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,800 Speaker 2: Day, everybody I think had the same. 1314 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:15,640 Speaker 1: Maybe my best call, but it wasn't like I had 1315 01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,760 Speaker 1: some great insight. It was just, oh my god, people like, 1316 01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,000 Speaker 1: at least we could do is take a deep breath. 1317 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,440 Speaker 1: So I have this idea, we're gonna We're gonna do 1318 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,760 Speaker 1: the opposite of panic, even though the show's called Panic 1319 01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,440 Speaker 1: with Friends, And I would get my calmest friends that 1320 01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,360 Speaker 1: have been through many cycles and just chat with them 1321 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,840 Speaker 1: about the panic. And at the time that now the 1322 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,800 Speaker 1: market closes, I'm doing a show a day. A great guest. 1323 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,920 Speaker 1: Jomo Shaughnessy is my first guest, and it was just 1324 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,479 Speaker 1: really good advice. It's like that, and then I start 1325 01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 1: bringing in traders. When the VIC hits eight and I'm like, 1326 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,840 Speaker 1: what are we buying? Oil was negative? I bring on 1327 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,360 Speaker 1: my favorite oil trader and we were just like, if 1328 01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,160 Speaker 1: you listen to my podcast, you made fortunes because we 1329 01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,400 Speaker 1: were there, and I was so proud of just being. 1330 01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,840 Speaker 2: Makes the voice of reasons. 1331 01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,520 Speaker 1: Guys, you don't have to buy, but if you're not 1332 01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:09,200 Speaker 1: thinking about buying during these weeks, you will you may 1333 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,840 Speaker 1: not want to ever be an investor. 1334 01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:11,560 Speaker 2: Let me ask you. 1335 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:12,480 Speaker 1: I was the idea of the show. 1336 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,320 Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question because I had a 1337 01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,760 Speaker 2: similar experience. I'm curious as to what yours was. What 1338 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,519 Speaker 2: sort of pushback did you get to that rational Hey 1339 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,960 Speaker 2: down thirty percent in a few weeks buying opportunity? What 1340 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:26,360 Speaker 2: did people say? 1341 01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,760 Speaker 1: The show wasn't like it was more a show of like, 1342 01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, I have a big audience, not for the 1343 01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,880 Speaker 1: podcast at the time, but I would just I figured, 1344 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,160 Speaker 1: if people ever go back and look for about thirty 1345 01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,880 Speaker 1: days of podcasting after day, I was going to put 1346 01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,559 Speaker 1: a piece of work out there that would be timeless. Now, 1347 01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,400 Speaker 1: I didn't expect to be doing the show for three 1348 01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,400 Speaker 1: more years, and it should be called Frolic with Friends 1349 01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,760 Speaker 1: at this point. But I was really proud of it. 1350 01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,519 Speaker 1: But we just kept going. Canodos are one of my 1351 01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:54,200 Speaker 1: best pals. 1352 01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,160 Speaker 2: It's also you don't realize how much fun it is 1353 01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,519 Speaker 2: to sit down with somebody. You and I know each 1354 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,720 Speaker 2: other for a long time. How often do we get to 1355 01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,080 Speaker 2: sit down and bs about what we do for two hours? 1356 01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,719 Speaker 1: It's also it's a blast, It's not just a blast. 1357 01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,000 Speaker 1: It keeps me ahead of the curve. 1358 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,160 Speaker 2: And you got to think about who you're talking to. 1359 01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,599 Speaker 2: There's some prep work that you wouldn't do otherwise. Hey, 1360 01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,639 Speaker 2: let me look into seed investing before I sit down 1361 01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,400 Speaker 2: with Howard. Oh look what I've learned. I mean you 1362 01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,840 Speaker 2: you must have those sort of experiences. It's that although 1363 01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,479 Speaker 2: you have a staff that does all the research, I. 1364 01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,160 Speaker 1: Don't have the staff do everything other than connute myself. 1365 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I just love the idea that my daughter, 1366 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:35,920 Speaker 1: my wife listened to it and they like it. As 1367 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,400 Speaker 1: long as they like it, I'll keep doing it. Every 1368 01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,120 Speaker 1: time I say I quit, my wife goes, I listened 1369 01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:41,840 Speaker 1: while I'm hiking, and go all right, I'll keep. 1370 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,599 Speaker 2: Doing So what do you What have you learned from 1371 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:44,640 Speaker 2: hosting a podcast? 1372 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Well, I've learned that people are great, right, I've learned 1373 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:49,639 Speaker 1: obviously because I don't. 1374 01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,719 Speaker 2: Want you so the opposite of what you learn from Twitter. 1375 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, I learned that just there's so many smart people 1376 01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,320 Speaker 1: and I also learn a lot about myself in I 1377 01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:04,040 Speaker 1: don't know anything, and I do love to make my 1378 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,120 Speaker 1: guest laugh. Like part of the thing is if you 1379 01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,280 Speaker 1: can make the friends and the Jim o'shaughness is and 1380 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,600 Speaker 1: the berries laugh, that is the only gift that I 1381 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,320 Speaker 1: was born with, is to probe and make them giggle 1382 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,599 Speaker 1: or just look at themselves a little less seriously. Right, 1383 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,880 Speaker 1: So when I see a flaw in person, whether it's 1384 01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,800 Speaker 1: Kramer or whether it's you know, Trump, I look at 1385 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,400 Speaker 1: it like, man, these are bad life decisions. Like Jim 1386 01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,240 Speaker 1: could have been me. He could have he had the 1387 01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: center of the universe. I look at Jim, and he 1388 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,240 Speaker 1: went media. He could have gone venture. Right, maybe he 1389 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:36,680 Speaker 1: did do venture and he doesn't talk about it. 1390 01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:37,799 Speaker 2: He did okay for himself. 1391 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,080 Speaker 1: To be fair saying he didn't make money, I'm saying 1392 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,080 Speaker 1: he's slapping on makeup. But he could have been, and 1393 01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:43,680 Speaker 1: he could have been. 1394 01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,960 Speaker 2: He's got a daily grind that looks from the outside 1395 01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,080 Speaker 2: like it's you had to pick one of two lifestyles. 1396 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:55,320 Speaker 2: I think Andreasen's lifestyle is a little more less less 1397 01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,719 Speaker 2: stressful than the lifestyle that correct. 1398 01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,640 Speaker 1: So I feel like I chose the their side of 1399 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,240 Speaker 1: the road. I could have gone down the media side, 1400 01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:06,080 Speaker 1: but I still look at the media more like the enemy. 1401 01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,040 Speaker 1: But I also don't look at it like Trump and 1402 01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,840 Speaker 1: Elon must look like it. They're out to get me, 1403 01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:13,880 Speaker 1: and I know they are out to get them and 1404 01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,400 Speaker 1: whatever clicks. 1405 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,439 Speaker 2: And they're out to get paid. So you know, whenever 1406 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to interrupt again because I feel like, no, 1407 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,680 Speaker 2: we're friends, I feel like this is a conversation, not 1408 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,519 Speaker 2: not a Q and A. And I apologize to those 1409 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,280 Speaker 2: people who are expecting a Q and A whenever I hit. 1410 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:35,120 Speaker 2: People talk about media bias, and a lot of it 1411 01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:40,480 Speaker 2: is just lazy journalism and what is extreme, what is outrageous? 1412 01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,000 Speaker 2: What is sensationalistic? How do we get the views? How 1413 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,439 Speaker 2: do we get the clicks? It's not the sort of 1414 01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 2: I think the right misunderstands the left and the left 1415 01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,599 Speaker 2: misunderstands the whole thing. It's a business and it's about 1416 01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:00,679 Speaker 2: generating and capturing attention, not we're put wishing the left 1417 01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,960 Speaker 2: versus the rights out of view. Fox News is its 1418 01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,679 Speaker 2: own animal. It has its own origin story that comes 1419 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,080 Speaker 2: from a very different place. But when you just look 1420 01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:14,440 Speaker 2: at media in general, yellow journalism has been around for centuries, 1421 01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:15,400 Speaker 2: literally centuries. 1422 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just loved the idea. I was born with 1423 01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:20,639 Speaker 1: the gift to laugh at myself, so. 1424 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,880 Speaker 2: Let's talk about So let's talk about laughing at yourself. 1425 01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,480 Speaker 2: And I'm going to insert myself even deeper into the conversation. 1426 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,920 Speaker 2: I wrote a column in twenty twenty one for Bloomberg 1427 01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,960 Speaker 2: what my worst trades taught me about investing, and I 1428 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,080 Speaker 2: mentioned you said it's twenty fourteen. I remember it's twenty fifteen, 1429 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,000 Speaker 2: but I wouldn't swear to it. The line I said 1430 01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,920 Speaker 2: is Howard, that's the dumbest investment idea I ever heard. 1431 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:47,280 Speaker 2: I'm omitting the F bomb that was in the middle. 1432 01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,640 Speaker 2: You and I were talking. We were in San Francisco. 1433 01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,840 Speaker 2: I have a vivid recollection of the Ferry building being 1434 01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,720 Speaker 2: behind us. We were out on the deck behind where 1435 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,599 Speaker 2: a couple of those restaurants were, and you were pitching 1436 01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,080 Speaker 2: me on this ridiculous idea for an app that's going 1437 01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:03,799 Speaker 2: to give away free trades to millennials on their phone. 1438 01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,200 Speaker 2: That's like, you know, the world's moving to passive. Who 1439 01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,160 Speaker 2: wants free trading? Where is this going? So first kudos 1440 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:15,240 Speaker 2: to you to investing in robin Hood when I was 1441 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:18,200 Speaker 2: too stupid to see it. But second, how did you 1442 01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 2: come across the robin Hood opportunity and what made you 1443 01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:23,640 Speaker 2: so enthusiastic about it? 1444 01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,080 Speaker 1: The first of all, it was it was just E 1445 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,840 Speaker 1: trade two point zero. So my big idea, like even 1446 01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 1: with Wallstrip was CNBC on YouTube. Robinhood was just an 1447 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:34,840 Speaker 1: extension of what each trade. 1448 01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,760 Speaker 2: Each trade on the phone, so each trade to me, 1449 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,439 Speaker 2: if you would have pitched it to me like that, 1450 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:40,960 Speaker 2: because my first gig in the business was at EA Trade, 1451 01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:42,400 Speaker 2: I would have been all over it. 1452 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:46,600 Speaker 1: Yes, so it's my fault, I totally, So again I'm in. 1453 01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,280 Speaker 1: It was in a power position on some level because 1454 01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:52,800 Speaker 1: people needed stock twits to spam to get users, so 1455 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,360 Speaker 1: we were at gateway to traffic much like Twitter. Uh 1456 01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:57,519 Speaker 1: huh okay. So, but the people that came to me 1457 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,320 Speaker 1: were people were financial apps, and because I was too 1458 01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,400 Speaker 1: wimpy to build my own brokerage in twenty thirteen, just 1459 01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:09,840 Speaker 1: like you said, vcs are not perfect. They are like moths. 1460 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:14,400 Speaker 1: And at the time, the world of VC was enamored 1461 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:19,200 Speaker 1: with disrupting Vanguard, so the VC model was all the 1462 01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:23,120 Speaker 1: V eight trillion get to tell you my hack. So 1463 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,559 Speaker 1: the vcs were seeing the world one way. I saw 1464 01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,920 Speaker 1: the world another way. So the VCS were like, we 1465 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,880 Speaker 1: got to go after the assets under management. I was like, 1466 01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,120 Speaker 1: who cares those are worth? You know, red dollar? You 1467 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,760 Speaker 1: need to get the customer and you need you know. 1468 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,439 Speaker 1: So it wasn't like any genius insight. It was just 1469 01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:44,479 Speaker 1: all the money was trying to disrupt Vanguard, and Vanguard 1470 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,599 Speaker 1: wasn't disruptible. You couldn't build a product that was twenty 1471 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,040 Speaker 1: times better than Vanguard, whereas E trade they were spending 1472 01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,400 Speaker 1: billions on advertisements. 1473 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,120 Speaker 2: So great emphasizing but expensive average. 1474 01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:58,160 Speaker 1: So at the time in twenty thirteen, you could look 1475 01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,839 Speaker 1: through the financial statements of Schwab and TD public statements 1476 01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,280 Speaker 1: and they were spending one hundred and fifty dollars for 1477 01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,719 Speaker 1: a customer acquisition. So this is the math that I applied. 1478 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:09,280 Speaker 2: You could acquire them for next to nothing. 1479 01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:14,040 Speaker 1: How about zero and lesson zero? Right? Meaning I show 1480 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,760 Speaker 1: my friend my free trade on my phone. He didn't 1481 01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:17,719 Speaker 1: see a TV commercial. 1482 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:19,520 Speaker 2: What does that cost you less. 1483 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,400 Speaker 1: Than one bucks? Because one the one customer led to ten. 1484 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:23,559 Speaker 1: So it was like Uber. 1485 01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:25,719 Speaker 2: Grows, but you're giving them a free trade, You're giving 1486 01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,360 Speaker 2: them a free share of stock. Understand that, but what 1487 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:29,320 Speaker 2: is that twenty bucks? 1488 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,640 Speaker 1: Thirty bucks? Not even you can't think like that. As 1489 01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,559 Speaker 1: a seed investor, you can now that interestate you five percent. 1490 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,400 Speaker 2: If Schwab is spending a buck fifty per client and 1491 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:41,720 Speaker 2: you're spending one share of a five dollars stock, your 1492 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,240 Speaker 2: cost of acquisition is five dollars. It's meaningless. 1493 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:48,000 Speaker 1: Who cares, right, So at worst it was five dollars, 1494 01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,280 Speaker 1: but at best it was still negative because that person 1495 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,519 Speaker 1: told five other people. You got to understand how that 1496 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:58,360 Speaker 1: type of networking was virals organic, so it was Snapchat 1497 01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,200 Speaker 1: but with trading. So think about this, do the map. 1498 01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:05,719 Speaker 1: If I acquire a million users and I'm a Schwab 1499 01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:08,600 Speaker 1: and I did that for ten dollars, you'd be CEO 1500 01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,080 Speaker 1: of the company. Bring me the kid that got me 1501 01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:16,719 Speaker 1: a million users without a tv AD Right now, your 1502 01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,599 Speaker 1: all your workers were trying to kill you because they'd 1503 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,280 Speaker 1: be slow down, dude, you're you're not supposed to work 1504 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,320 Speaker 1: that hard. But this was my idea was like, if 1505 01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,840 Speaker 1: you can acquire a million users at zero, you're worth 1506 01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:30,599 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollars. 1507 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:30,920 Speaker 2: Yep. 1508 01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,799 Speaker 1: So if I invest at an eight million dollar valuation. 1509 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,439 Speaker 1: Let me put up the check. I'm up nineteen times 1510 01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,040 Speaker 1: my money in an ARB trade. So it was just 1511 01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:39,720 Speaker 1: an AR bike. 1512 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,000 Speaker 2: And again, you you should have explained that to me. 1513 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,280 Speaker 1: Well, at the time, I probably had gas from something 1514 01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,679 Speaker 1: I'd eaten in San Francisco and I had other things 1515 01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,840 Speaker 1: on my mind. No, but the idea then was it 1516 01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,360 Speaker 1: was very hard for other people to see that because 1517 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:56,000 Speaker 1: they were looking for a business model. 1518 01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,200 Speaker 2: Well, now that you've explained that, it's easy to say. 1519 01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:00,840 Speaker 1: And so what I didn't get right for me? Again, 1520 01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:02,479 Speaker 1: a lot of this is luck. I didn't expect it 1521 01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,960 Speaker 1: to be thirty bill you know. So we did sell 1522 01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,160 Speaker 1: some along the way, and that was the beauty of 1523 01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,280 Speaker 1: this market. Markets have become they're a liquid a little 1524 01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,639 Speaker 1: bit right now. But there became liquidity in the private market, 1525 01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,720 Speaker 1: which is what I also helped build by investing an 1526 01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,160 Speaker 1: angel List and others. So I was just part of 1527 01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,519 Speaker 1: that whole generation which was fun, which created liquidity in 1528 01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:26,040 Speaker 1: the system. 1529 01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,680 Speaker 2: So how early were you in robinhood? We were the 1530 01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,280 Speaker 2: first check, you were literally the first check. Yeah, they 1531 01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,840 Speaker 2: go public for thirty five billion dollars. That that's got 1532 01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,080 Speaker 2: to put a few jingles. 1533 01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're we're on a few lists for fun returns. 1534 01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,080 Speaker 2: So you've you're selling a little bit along the way. Yeah, 1535 01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:46,160 Speaker 2: but it's got to be one hundred x plus, right, 1536 01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:49,320 Speaker 2: I know you can't disclose that, but yeah, it's huge. 1537 01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,120 Speaker 2: So now you're in a very different situation instead of 1538 01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:53,120 Speaker 2: thinking about. 1539 01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, now you pay me to come on the podcast. 1540 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:58,880 Speaker 2: Right, right, But but for other people we have, we 1541 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,360 Speaker 2: have clients who sold businesses, we have other people who've 1542 01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:06,040 Speaker 2: had these giant wind falls. Suddenly it's a very different calculus. 1543 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,880 Speaker 2: You're saying, all right, I'm no longer worrying about multiplying this. 1544 01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,240 Speaker 2: How do I go about protecting this giant pool capital? 1545 01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:15,519 Speaker 2: And how do I not get killed tax wise? 1546 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:15,720 Speaker 1: So? 1547 01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:18,439 Speaker 2: Do you collar this? Do you sell it? What do 1548 01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,840 Speaker 2: you do when suddenly the bank calls and says, hey, 1549 01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,360 Speaker 2: there's a couple extra zeros in your bank account, put 1550 01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,519 Speaker 2: it at the end of your your balance. What sort 1551 01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,880 Speaker 2: of financial response do you take to that? 1552 01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:32,880 Speaker 1: Well, the first thing you do is I tell everybody, 1553 01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:37,160 Speaker 1: is you hide it from your your wife and kids? Right, yeah, 1554 01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:37,679 Speaker 1: my kids. 1555 01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:39,559 Speaker 2: Sorry, that Robin Hood thing didn't work. 1556 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,160 Speaker 1: My kids think I'm in trying to still disrupt bankguard. No. 1557 01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:48,280 Speaker 1: So the first thing you do is try and just appreciate, 1558 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,400 Speaker 1: like you know, the good fortune. Yeah, yeah, set up 1559 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:51,840 Speaker 1: the trust. 1560 01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,800 Speaker 2: Gratitude all that stuff is fantastic. 1561 01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:57,280 Speaker 1: Then set up the trust and you realize that you 1562 01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,000 Speaker 1: have replying to your children. 1563 01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:01,639 Speaker 2: Right you start moving money into various trusts. You're worth 1564 01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,639 Speaker 2: more dead than alive. You don't want them to know that. 1565 01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,760 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes you you he. 1566 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,880 Speaker 2: Incentive to detach the break lines. We don't want that. 1567 01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing special. We as a conservative person. 1568 01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:17,760 Speaker 2: Do you do you color the because that's a big money. 1569 01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,800 Speaker 1: We We distributed the stock to r LPs so so so. 1570 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:23,360 Speaker 2: A lot of so it's up to them to do 1571 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:24,120 Speaker 2: with this goes to. 1572 01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,759 Speaker 1: Degreed at the end of the secon. Yeah, you know again. 1573 01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,080 Speaker 1: I was mentored by Fred Wilson. We've been joking. 1574 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,240 Speaker 2: Fred says, hit the bit. 1575 01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,080 Speaker 1: Fred is always because he went through nineteen ninety nine, 1576 01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:34,519 Speaker 1: He's not he went through. 1577 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:35,880 Speaker 2: He's not looking to optimize. 1578 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,000 Speaker 1: He's not looking to optimize. 1579 01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:42,520 Speaker 2: That is the regret minimization strategy. That's what Fred deploys. 1580 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,040 Speaker 1: I've made a few mistakes in my life and investing 1581 01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,760 Speaker 1: that Fred laughs at or not laughs, but I appreciate you. 1582 01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,920 Speaker 1: And there do you think where I've optimized over optimized 1583 01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,200 Speaker 1: for entry? Right? Okay? Fred has always said if everything 1584 01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,720 Speaker 1: lines up optimized, don't worry. 1585 01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,519 Speaker 2: About it, optimize for exit. 1586 01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,599 Speaker 1: So so I've always optimized correctit, meaning I'm never going 1587 01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,040 Speaker 1: to sell the top right, and I'm generally going to 1588 01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,240 Speaker 1: sell on the way out. 1589 01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,320 Speaker 2: You don't even get a ribbon when you top to 1590 01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,360 Speaker 2: I've top ticked two stocks in my life when I 1591 01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:16,360 Speaker 2: was on a trading desk. You don't ring the ball exchange, 1592 01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,880 Speaker 2: no one, No one gives you a plaque. It's like, oh, 1593 01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:20,240 Speaker 2: that was a lot of efforts for nothing. 1594 01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,040 Speaker 1: So our job is to return capital as fast as 1595 01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:23,360 Speaker 1: we can. 1596 01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:24,000 Speaker 2: You did that. 1597 01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:26,599 Speaker 1: There's a there is a thing in the venture industry 1598 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,600 Speaker 1: that's kind of a joke, which is you know I 1599 01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:31,639 Speaker 1: R R. Well, y r R might mean something if 1600 01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,559 Speaker 1: you're returning cash, right, so. 1601 01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:37,000 Speaker 2: The eternal rate of return, yes, but you're returning actual share. 1602 01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:41,160 Speaker 1: So in our thing, it's dollars return, so it's DPI, 1603 01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,360 Speaker 1: and so the higher your DPI, now your I R 1604 01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,479 Speaker 1: R is what matters. When you have a five to 1605 01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,280 Speaker 1: ten DPI and you've returned that much cash on cash. 1606 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,080 Speaker 1: People return your calls. So I was mentored by the 1607 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,360 Speaker 1: people that said, focus on DPI. So if you have 1608 01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,960 Speaker 1: a chance to return your cash, you if you return 1609 01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,000 Speaker 1: your cash in twenty sixteen, we returned some cash in 1610 01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:05,040 Speaker 1: robin in twenty sixteen, very early. But say those LPs 1611 01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:09,040 Speaker 1: bought bitcoin, right, they did, okay, Meaning my job isn't 1612 01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,880 Speaker 1: to manage their money. My job is when when I 1613 01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,200 Speaker 1: entered a company, I said, if this gets to a billion, 1614 01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,120 Speaker 1: I got to sell some and it got to a billion. 1615 01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,439 Speaker 1: You can't change. Yeah, of course you can change. But 1616 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm an early stage investor. I mean sell everything. 1617 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,960 Speaker 2: You sold a little bit to take some house money 1618 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,839 Speaker 2: off the table. You still had a big slug waiting 1619 01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,320 Speaker 2: to see if it did any better. 1620 01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:35,400 Speaker 1: Yes, and it did so even from there, it's thirty five. Oh, 1621 01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,919 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. Now we made the decision and our LPs 1622 01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,320 Speaker 1: agreed that we are as soon as we can sell, 1623 01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:45,040 Speaker 1: we will return the shares to the LPs. Let them 1624 01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:47,559 Speaker 1: decide me. They have their own tax problem, LP, they 1625 01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,280 Speaker 1: have their other issues. Let us return the stock market. 1626 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,000 Speaker 1: They want to hold it, they can hold it for me. 1627 01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,320 Speaker 2: What are the rules for early events pre IPO investors 1628 01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:00,719 Speaker 2: six months, so you basically give them pre ip shares. 1629 01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,160 Speaker 1: No, we give them we have to wait legally for 1630 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:05,840 Speaker 1: the shares to be cleaned up. We cleaned them up 1631 01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,760 Speaker 1: day one. Give them their shares, their free trading can 1632 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,200 Speaker 1: hold them and give them to their kids. That's not 1633 01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:14,640 Speaker 1: our job. We distributed market. 1634 01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,120 Speaker 2: And the IPO was one twenty twenty one. 1635 01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, late twenty twenty one. Now, a lot of people 1636 01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,800 Speaker 1: around this time started cutting up their funds like Andresen 1637 01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,120 Speaker 1: and Sequoia to be permanent capital. These are the signs 1638 01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:28,080 Speaker 1: of the top where they're like, hey, we now have 1639 01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:31,519 Speaker 1: an evergreen fund that will hold these stocks. You know. 1640 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,519 Speaker 1: So there were all these signs late twenty one one. 1641 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,200 Speaker 2: That's not a great call there. Yeah. 1642 01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:40,719 Speaker 1: So so again, you know, we consistently try and return capital. 1643 01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:41,800 Speaker 1: That is our job. 1644 01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,920 Speaker 2: So all told, your experience with robin Hood ended up 1645 01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,840 Speaker 2: being pretty pretty pretty good. 1646 01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty good. We had a few other ones, but ye, Robinhood. 1647 01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,960 Speaker 1: What was fun about Robinhood is that we saw other 1648 01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,640 Speaker 1: people didn't like it, and that still goes to our 1649 01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,840 Speaker 1: strategy today is when you're betting on people, you have 1650 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,360 Speaker 1: to have domain experience which we had in Robinhood. We 1651 01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:07,559 Speaker 1: have to get the timing right. That's a little bit 1652 01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,280 Speaker 1: of luck. The world was ready for an app like this. 1653 01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:12,519 Speaker 2: And then the pandemic certainly didn't hurt. 1654 01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:16,360 Speaker 1: Didn't hurt, but the execution that they had early was fantastic. 1655 01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,640 Speaker 2: Really quite fascinating. So I have a very vivid recollection 1656 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:25,920 Speaker 2: of you being on my partner's podcast, Compound and Friends, 1657 01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:28,960 Speaker 2: Josh Brown and Michael Batnick, and I want to say 1658 01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,479 Speaker 2: it was like October twenty one, is that about right? 1659 01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,559 Speaker 2: And you're like, the market screaming higher, We're up from 1660 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:39,720 Speaker 2: the lows. At the end of March twenty twenty the 1661 01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,880 Speaker 2: markets up sixty eight percent for a calendar year, and 1662 01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one the S and P five hundreds up 1663 01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,400 Speaker 2: twenty eight percent. And you couldn't have been more uncomfortable. 1664 01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,759 Speaker 2: You just said, wherever you look signs of problems coming. 1665 01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,160 Speaker 2: What were you seeing in October twenty one that made 1666 01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:58,639 Speaker 2: you and not just public markets. You were talking about 1667 01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:04,280 Speaker 2: private marketaluations, demands from founders and startups. Like everything you 1668 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:05,640 Speaker 2: said was bubblicious. 1669 01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:07,760 Speaker 1: So earlier in the year, in April, you know, I 1670 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,320 Speaker 1: rarely do serious interviews, and I came on Joe's podcast 1671 01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:12,680 Speaker 1: with Tracy and they were great and they were like 1672 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,519 Speaker 1: asking me questions and it went I was like, you know, 1673 01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:19,439 Speaker 1: this is stupid. And we had raised one hundred million 1674 01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:21,800 Speaker 1: in late twenty twenty one. Again we went from six, 1675 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,800 Speaker 1: as I said, to twenty to forty one hundred. That 1676 01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,760 Speaker 1: hundred was easy really, So when it was easy, it 1677 01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,360 Speaker 1: was like it was like it was like the Costanza 1678 01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:33,679 Speaker 1: venture capital. At that point, I'm like, this has been 1679 01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,719 Speaker 1: so hard for us. We're good. Why are the people 1680 01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,840 Speaker 1: giving us one hundred What have we done to deserve this? 1681 01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:42,880 Speaker 1: So we was kind of like castandzing ourselves, and so 1682 01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,439 Speaker 1: we stopped writing checks, which is one of our best decides. 1683 01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,360 Speaker 2: So wait, hold on a second before we get to that. 1684 01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:49,960 Speaker 2: So you raise one hundred million, now you have a 1685 01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:52,519 Speaker 2: track record that's you know, Robin Hood. 1686 01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,000 Speaker 1: Or people wired us money. 1687 01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:58,600 Speaker 2: So was this there's too much money around people have 1688 01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,800 Speaker 2: become reckless with their ca capital or is this a 1689 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,200 Speaker 2: little imposter syndrome. Hey we're good, but we're not that good. 1690 01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,720 Speaker 2: This is a problem. Or a little bit of everything. 1691 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,280 Speaker 1: A little bit of everything plus a lot of it's 1692 01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:13,280 Speaker 1: not my own money. Right, and I'm conservative, and I'm like, 1693 01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:17,439 Speaker 1: nothing makes sense to me, and I'm getting three minutes 1694 01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:21,000 Speaker 1: to decide on a deal. We're still doing business on zoom. 1695 01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:24,439 Speaker 1: I'm not a zoom guy, right, I just like this. 1696 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:26,599 Speaker 2: You need to see people's body line. 1697 01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,559 Speaker 1: I can't take three months to do it now, meaning okay, 1698 01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:31,800 Speaker 1: I lose Stille in three months. But like, shouldn't I 1699 01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:33,680 Speaker 1: have dinner with you? Shouldn't I see if you're like 1700 01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,400 Speaker 1: treat the staff well? Shouldn't I see what your co 1701 01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,479 Speaker 1: founder looks like. I don't even know how tall you are. 1702 01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:42,960 Speaker 1: So again, God bless the people that wrote checks. So 1703 01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,599 Speaker 1: my partner Gary wrote a few good checks during COVID 1704 01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:46,400 Speaker 1: I didn't. 1705 01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:52,240 Speaker 2: So starting in early twenty twenty one, the social leverage 1706 01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:53,480 Speaker 2: bigot is shut. 1707 01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:56,360 Speaker 1: Off almost in twenty twenty because March twenty twenty I 1708 01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,040 Speaker 1: start the podcast and there was so much opportunity in 1709 01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,000 Speaker 1: the public market right that it was saying, how are 1710 01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,080 Speaker 1: you not buying these stocks? What are you worried about 1711 01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,800 Speaker 1: private markets when you can make ten x on a 1712 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:12,240 Speaker 1: public stuff with liquidity? So I lost. I got lost 1713 01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:14,960 Speaker 1: in the public markets. And of course you know, some 1714 01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,880 Speaker 1: cool companies got funded. But really those first three months 1715 01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:21,240 Speaker 1: of COVID were like you would like a motorcycle accident, 1716 01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:23,479 Speaker 1: You get up and you go, we're not dead. And 1717 01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,519 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like I was in the mood of 1718 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:28,839 Speaker 1: check writing. But by like June of twenty twenty, market 1719 01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,760 Speaker 1: was open, baby, and people were writing checks right. And 1720 01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,639 Speaker 1: for a couple months I was excited. You write checks, 1721 01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:38,280 Speaker 1: We have money, people love us, we know what we're doing. 1722 01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,040 Speaker 1: So we wrote a few checks. But then I like, 1723 01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:42,360 Speaker 1: by the end of the year, I'm. 1724 01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:43,920 Speaker 2: Like, this has gotten crazy. 1725 01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,280 Speaker 1: The prices were tripling, and people would be that on 1726 01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:50,160 Speaker 1: treason line. Hey, if you're going to make a thousand 1727 01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:52,759 Speaker 1: on your money, what's the difference if you paid triple 1728 01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:54,920 Speaker 1: on the opening price. But that math, if you really 1729 01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:57,519 Speaker 1: put it in a calculator, becomes a problem. Becomes a 1730 01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:01,400 Speaker 1: problem just if you're wrong. Because now the IRR, which 1731 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:06,160 Speaker 1: doesn't important to me, is important. If you've invested someone's 1732 01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:09,200 Speaker 1: money and it takes three extra years, you're not going 1733 01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:11,920 Speaker 1: to beat anybody, right. And so my job is not 1734 01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,439 Speaker 1: just about DPI. It also is about IRR because I'm 1735 01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:17,879 Speaker 1: going to put your money to work. The clock starts ticking, 1736 01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,519 Speaker 1: and you know, delaying an exit three years is a 1737 01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:25,599 Speaker 1: real thing. So the risk I just felt the asymmetric risk. 1738 01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,919 Speaker 2: So wait, let's let's let's just talk about IRR briefly. 1739 01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,400 Speaker 2: Typical venture funds. If I commit one hundred dollars to 1740 01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,320 Speaker 2: a venture fund, a great fund, I'll get a capital 1741 01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:40,679 Speaker 2: call right away for right, and then the next January 1742 01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,639 Speaker 2: I'll get another call for twenty five bucks and then 1743 01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:45,479 Speaker 2: the fuss so maybe over the course of three four, 1744 01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,960 Speaker 2: five years, three to four years. So this way they 1745 01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:51,120 Speaker 2: can keep They're not sitting with your cash worrying. This 1746 01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:54,479 Speaker 2: is just showing zero return or back when you know 1747 01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,960 Speaker 2: the tenure was two percent. Is showing almost no return 1748 01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,000 Speaker 2: you have to worry about you can until they call it. 1749 01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we It wasn't like a lack of 1750 01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,719 Speaker 1: seeing things, you know, because e commerce was booming after COVID, 1751 01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,400 Speaker 1: and you know, everybody was believing that, you know, the 1752 01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:13,800 Speaker 1: future was e commerce and it still is. But people 1753 01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,080 Speaker 1: were locked down and behaviors were changing. People as they 1754 01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,240 Speaker 1: thought that would be forever. You know, we're never going 1755 01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:18,600 Speaker 1: to go to it. 1756 01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:21,799 Speaker 2: It went from this is temporary to everything's different. 1757 01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,559 Speaker 1: Now we will see the future, right, And I didn't 1758 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:28,080 Speaker 1: see the future the same way because I live in Arizona. 1759 01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:30,719 Speaker 1: I was hiking. Phoenix wasn't closed. There was no clue 1760 01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:35,240 Speaker 1: to Phoenix. Sure so, and what happened is this phenomena 1761 01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:37,800 Speaker 1: of what took four years. The bcs were putting one 1762 01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:39,880 Speaker 1: hundred percent of the money to work in twelve months 1763 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,599 Speaker 1: out raising their next fund. So there was a lot 1764 01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:45,719 Speaker 1: of fomo. And I have to admit that the fomo 1765 01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:49,080 Speaker 1: for sure caught up with me personally, so as schmuck 1766 01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:53,000 Speaker 1: insurance against me not writing checks, I did write. And 1767 01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,720 Speaker 1: I remember Packy being on Joshua Sure and I was 1768 01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:56,680 Speaker 1: making fun of the whole thing. 1769 01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:57,400 Speaker 2: Paki is great. 1770 01:28:57,439 --> 01:28:59,240 Speaker 1: I have twenty five K in one of his funds, 1771 01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,040 Speaker 1: and I was yelling at him. I'm like, you know, 1772 01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:02,960 Speaker 1: I gave you money. It didn't mean to just blow 1773 01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:03,839 Speaker 1: it in a casino. 1774 01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,679 Speaker 2: For people who don't know who pack he is, just. 1775 01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:11,439 Speaker 1: Give He's just a really smart young. 1776 01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:14,439 Speaker 2: Guy, got very young. He watched his first fund right 1777 01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:15,799 Speaker 2: into the teeth of the mess. 1778 01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he was. He was really a fun thinker. 1779 01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,719 Speaker 1: And again we were all locked around house reading smart people, 1780 01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,800 Speaker 1: and he had good opinions and he was into crypto, 1781 01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:26,799 Speaker 1: and I'm not into crypto, so I said, I started 1782 01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,559 Speaker 1: placing personal bets with money that I had made just 1783 01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,439 Speaker 1: in case I was wrong, but not my LP's money. 1784 01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:36,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't willing to make crazy bets with LP's money 1785 01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:38,600 Speaker 1: that just goes to social This is what we called. 1786 01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:42,360 Speaker 2: The fun account pull off five percent trade away. If 1787 01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:44,639 Speaker 2: you blow it up, who cares. It's a small part. 1788 01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:46,880 Speaker 1: So one of the insts I got from my schmuck 1789 01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:49,960 Speaker 1: insurance money is that no, I was a schmuck for 1790 01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,040 Speaker 1: writing the checks, and the people that I gave the 1791 01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:54,000 Speaker 1: money to God blessed him as smart as they were. 1792 01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,880 Speaker 1: I think we're schmucks too, not like bad people, just 1793 01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,840 Speaker 1: caught up in the moment. Evaluations don't matter. 1794 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:05,760 Speaker 2: But that's why we have schmock insurance and don't use 1795 01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,519 Speaker 2: our LP's money for these dumb ideas. At times when 1796 01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,599 Speaker 2: you think this isn't gonna work out, Yeah, but I can't. 1797 01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:14,439 Speaker 2: I feel like I have to still be in the game. 1798 01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel our best work as a firm was 1799 01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,040 Speaker 1: not writing even though we had great returns for our 1800 01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:23,559 Speaker 1: first funds, I feel our best work was not writing checks. 1801 01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,000 Speaker 1: In twenty one and twenty two. 1802 01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:28,479 Speaker 2: That's what Buffett says is, you know, unlike the public markets, 1803 01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:31,120 Speaker 2: where you have to be invested, you could stand at 1804 01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:33,200 Speaker 2: the plate with the bat at your shoulder and not 1805 01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:34,160 Speaker 2: take a swin. 1806 01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:38,200 Speaker 1: Now and Treason's defense, he would argue for your timing 1807 01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:41,559 Speaker 1: the market. And so again, I don't know if it's 1808 01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:43,120 Speaker 1: right or wrong. And in a way I did time 1809 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,800 Speaker 1: the market, and so maybe I just got lucky. But 1810 01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,599 Speaker 1: my beef for the last six months, and it's quite public, 1811 01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:52,519 Speaker 1: my beef is with my own industry, is that they 1812 01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:56,000 Speaker 1: were talking out of both sides, meaning they were writing 1813 01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:01,400 Speaker 1: those checks and then also say fed stupid things are overvalued, 1814 01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:03,040 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you can't have it both ways. You 1815 01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:03,840 Speaker 1: should have been. 1816 01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:08,679 Speaker 2: More so that what did you see in twenty twenty 1817 01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:12,680 Speaker 2: one that you thought was egregious and ridiculous? What were 1818 01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:16,200 Speaker 2: the signposts that led you to say this is just 1819 01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:16,840 Speaker 2: out of hand. 1820 01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:21,360 Speaker 1: Well, not meeting founders and just assuming that you could. 1821 01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,200 Speaker 2: Create twenty one at that point. Oh, it was worse 1822 01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:25,320 Speaker 2: because we were wide. You know, we're pretty open. By 1823 01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,080 Speaker 2: twenty one, we were open, but. 1824 01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,400 Speaker 1: The money was raised and being deployed, and no one 1825 01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,080 Speaker 1: was taking their time. Everybody felt like get this money, 1826 01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:38,160 Speaker 1: ye rush, and the LP's had it, the GPS had it, 1827 01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:41,160 Speaker 1: the media had it. And don't get me wrong, I 1828 01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,639 Speaker 1: had it, but I didn't have it with other people's money. 1829 01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:47,200 Speaker 1: I had it with my own money. So we probed right, 1830 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:49,760 Speaker 1: Like I gave money to a lot of young managers 1831 01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,360 Speaker 1: just to see because I was a young manager myself. 1832 01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,280 Speaker 2: But that was like sixty seven years ago, right, you 1833 01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,479 Speaker 2: haven't been a young manager since World War Two. 1834 01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:00,639 Speaker 1: So no, but you know, and O five six, when 1835 01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:02,479 Speaker 1: I started wall strip and got the bug, I was 1836 01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:05,360 Speaker 1: in my you know, I hadn't seen that much. So 1837 01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:07,880 Speaker 1: maybe I didn't know what was going on. Maybe I'm 1838 01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:11,120 Speaker 1: the old guy. And so as I said, to keep 1839 01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:14,080 Speaker 1: that social leverage going, I feel the most important part 1840 01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:16,840 Speaker 1: of being an angel investor and I don't consider myself 1841 01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:19,640 Speaker 1: a venture capitalist. I consider myself a seed kind of more. 1842 01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:24,920 Speaker 1: An angelure is you have to invest, can't just commentate. 1843 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:28,960 Speaker 1: And so by investing, that helped me see how dumb 1844 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:33,320 Speaker 1: I was. And it's not that other people are dumb. 1845 01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:37,000 Speaker 1: That the markets are markets and they're open, but you 1846 01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:41,040 Speaker 1: could see the mistakes piling up and now here is 1847 01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:41,679 Speaker 1: where we're at. 1848 01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,840 Speaker 2: So so you put a couple of percent of you. 1849 01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:48,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've deployed thirty percent now but three year old fund. 1850 01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,880 Speaker 2: But but last year, with your own pocket, you put 1851 01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,440 Speaker 2: a couple of percent of your net worth. Oh yeah, 1852 01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,320 Speaker 2: what you call schmuck insurance is just hey, I'm just 1853 01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:00,759 Speaker 2: keeping a toe in the water. You didn't any big 1854 01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:01,799 Speaker 2: crazy bets. 1855 01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,320 Speaker 1: No, And I got very lucky because robin Hood benefited 1856 01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:08,879 Speaker 1: from covid E Toro. I also was an early investor 1857 01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:11,680 Speaker 1: in a couple of crypto funds that had Salana. So 1858 01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I was a lucky participator in this boom, 1859 01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:23,280 Speaker 1: which made me think maybe I had to speculate to 1860 01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:26,600 Speaker 1: just keep the oil going. And so I made a 1861 01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:30,519 Speaker 1: lot of personal luckily, not like anything significant, but it 1862 01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:33,519 Speaker 1: taught me a lot about what the end of a 1863 01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:35,479 Speaker 1: cycle looks like. So we just saw it. 1864 01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,080 Speaker 2: So here we are in the second quarter of twenty 1865 01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,639 Speaker 2: twenty three. When you look around, our evaluations remotely as crazy. 1866 01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,200 Speaker 2: It was a rough twenty twenty two for both stocks, 1867 01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:50,160 Speaker 2: bonds and private What do you see today and what 1868 01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:51,600 Speaker 2: are you looking out at? 1869 01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,000 Speaker 1: It feels like like I've been talking about for a year. 1870 01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm like bond boy, I never thought i'd be I 1871 01:33:58,400 --> 01:33:59,960 Speaker 1: never had owned a bond or a treasure. 1872 01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:02,360 Speaker 2: Hey, you could get tax free munis now. I don't 1873 01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,160 Speaker 2: know if Arizona does a lot of muni writing, but 1874 01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:07,880 Speaker 2: you know, if after tax you're getting four to four 1875 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:10,960 Speaker 2: and a half percent, that's fantastic. You haven't seen that 1876 01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:11,559 Speaker 2: in decades. 1877 01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:13,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, four years ago I invested in Max my interest 1878 01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,439 Speaker 1: my friend Gary, because he was he was aggregating. He 1879 01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:18,960 Speaker 1: was sending out your cash to many different accounts and 1880 01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:22,200 Speaker 1: getting you one percent, and I was like one percent 1881 01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:25,280 Speaker 1: better than zero. So I invested in that company. No, 1882 01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,920 Speaker 1: everybody made fun of that company, right, and that was 1883 01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:30,639 Speaker 1: a company that's now important because you can get five 1884 01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:35,320 Speaker 1: percent on your cash on the internet, distributed through FDIIC 1885 01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:36,320 Speaker 1: through many. 1886 01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,320 Speaker 2: So it's quarter million per bank. So you're way way. 1887 01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:45,120 Speaker 1: Below software years ago. So again like it it just 1888 01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,479 Speaker 1: by participating in the markets, you see things. But we 1889 01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:51,759 Speaker 1: are in a much different environment than I've ever seen 1890 01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:55,280 Speaker 1: now because we have so much cash raise not deployed. 1891 01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:03,519 Speaker 1: The money is out there the young generation, you know, 1892 01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:08,960 Speaker 1: it's very mobile, they're very smart, and you know, it's 1893 01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:12,000 Speaker 1: just a confusing time because interest rates have shot up 1894 01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:14,960 Speaker 1: and we're seeing the first signs of breakage, right, we're 1895 01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,040 Speaker 1: seeing things break well. 1896 01:35:16,120 --> 01:35:18,799 Speaker 2: Silicon Valley broke that that was kind of a crazy 1897 01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:21,040 Speaker 2: run on the bank that you could blame a handful 1898 01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:23,920 Speaker 2: of venture capitalists for starting. I think they were trying 1899 01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:29,240 Speaker 2: to do the right thing by their by their portfolio companies. 1900 01:35:29,280 --> 01:35:33,240 Speaker 2: But you know, we could have just easily rowed that out. 1901 01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:36,920 Speaker 1: And well, I don't give them that credit. The Silicon 1902 01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:39,240 Speaker 1: Valley Bank left a black hole for nine months in 1903 01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:42,200 Speaker 1: the bouncy and the Internet found it. And when the 1904 01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:45,360 Speaker 1: Internet finds it and something tips, everybody wants to take 1905 01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:47,840 Speaker 1: credit or not take credit for it. The Internet found 1906 01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,599 Speaker 1: a hole, right, and it just imploded. Much like game Stop. 1907 01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,320 Speaker 1: Silicon Bay Bank was the opposite of Game Stop. Game 1908 01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:56,840 Speaker 1: Stop had a different type of hole. There were some 1909 01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:00,080 Speaker 1: people showing in short interests and they had models. The 1910 01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,920 Speaker 1: hedge funds had models that turned out to be outdated, 1911 01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:05,160 Speaker 1: right meaning wrong. 1912 01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:05,880 Speaker 2: They were wrong. 1913 01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:10,280 Speaker 1: The models were not accounting for eight million Robin Hood 1914 01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:13,960 Speaker 1: people clicking a green button at the same time, and 1915 01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:17,240 Speaker 1: that's what created game Stop. And the same thing happened 1916 01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:21,760 Speaker 1: to Silicon Valley Bank and ree everybody hit withdrawal at 1917 01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:22,480 Speaker 1: the same. 1918 01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:28,400 Speaker 2: Time, Silicon Valley Bank had hedges on their long treasury 1919 01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:33,200 Speaker 2: positions as long duration, which the long duration trade is 1920 01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:36,160 Speaker 2: the wrong trade while rates are going up, so the 1921 01:36:36,200 --> 01:36:39,720 Speaker 2: hedges offset that and they took the hedges off. They 1922 01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:41,600 Speaker 2: rang the bell and gave themselves. 1923 01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:44,880 Speaker 1: Get said it in Wall Street. They were wreckable. They 1924 01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:48,479 Speaker 1: left themselves wreckable, and they were the Internet wrecked them. 1925 01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,439 Speaker 1: The GameStop hedge funds were wreckable because they didn't understand 1926 01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:56,200 Speaker 1: Internet scale. They hadn't seen a model that had Robinhood 1927 01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:59,559 Speaker 1: people pushing this button over at the same time with 1928 01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:03,600 Speaker 1: lever on short term options. So their three standard deviations 1929 01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:05,479 Speaker 1: was an old model. That was it. 1930 01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:07,720 Speaker 2: All right, I only have you for a handful of 1931 01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,639 Speaker 2: minutes before you have to go to your next meeting. 1932 01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:13,960 Speaker 2: So let's jump to our favorite questions that we ask 1933 01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:17,559 Speaker 2: all our guests, starting with you know, you talked about 1934 01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:22,080 Speaker 2: being locked down and podcasting and streaming. What were you consuming? 1935 01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:25,200 Speaker 2: What's been keeping you entertained over the past couple of years. 1936 01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:27,240 Speaker 1: Well, I'm a media guy. I'm passing about like a 1937 01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:31,000 Speaker 1: twenty four all these like like a great studio producing stuff. 1938 01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:34,479 Speaker 1: So I'm a media hound. I watch everything on Hulu 1939 01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:37,560 Speaker 1: I ask you. You just gave me Daisy Jones and 1940 01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:39,760 Speaker 1: the sixth which is fantastic. And I know the guy 1941 01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:42,719 Speaker 1: at Amazon that did it. I actually met at my event. 1942 01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,559 Speaker 2: He's a buddy of my bat Nicks. I bumped into him. 1943 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:47,799 Speaker 2: He reached our blogs Lindsay and Palooza. 1944 01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:49,479 Speaker 1: Here's what's so fun about our business? 1945 01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:53,080 Speaker 2: So celebrities reading me, Yeah, and they like me. When 1946 01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:54,400 Speaker 2: people reached. 1947 01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:55,000 Speaker 1: Out, freaking me out. 1948 01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:59,880 Speaker 2: So so Ben Klimber of Odinky told me a story 1949 01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:02,840 Speaker 2: when I had him on the podcast that he's running 1950 01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,400 Speaker 2: this blog on watches. It's kind of but not quite 1951 01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:08,960 Speaker 2: a business yet. And he gets an email from some 1952 01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:12,160 Speaker 2: guy named John Mayer who says, listen, I want to 1953 01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:15,120 Speaker 2: talk to you about watches. I got a bunch of 1954 01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:17,760 Speaker 2: watches I'd love to have stuff by. So he calls 1955 01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:19,519 Speaker 2: the guy back and lo and behold, it's not some 1956 01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:23,240 Speaker 2: guy named John Mayer. It's the rock star John Mayer 1957 01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,760 Speaker 2: who shows up at their studio brings him back. Then 1958 01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,120 Speaker 2: he rolled heavy, wrote a big bag of watches. Now 1959 01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:34,400 Speaker 2: security is a little different, and they that was the 1960 01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:38,479 Speaker 2: first talking watches and that blew up and became a 1961 01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,760 Speaker 2: regular feature. So when you put yourself out there in 1962 01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:46,280 Speaker 2: the public. You have no idea what's gonna what's magic. 1963 01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:50,599 Speaker 2: By the way, which I was writing in public at 1964 01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:54,840 Speaker 2: your Coronado Island event, is where I met the guy 1965 01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:59,679 Speaker 2: I would eventually hire and become my partner. And he's 1966 01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,160 Speaker 2: become I'm a star. Josh Brown is the partner Rehult's 1967 01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:05,840 Speaker 2: Wealth Management. But for you, I never would have met Josh. Yeah. 1968 01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,639 Speaker 2: And by the way, but for me writing a blog, 1969 01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:10,320 Speaker 2: Josh never would have cared who I was. 1970 01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:12,920 Speaker 1: The best part of my job and people won't believe 1971 01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:15,439 Speaker 1: it because I get the money. Is that you met Josh, 1972 01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:18,200 Speaker 1: is that we launched thousands of people on stock puts 1973 01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:21,840 Speaker 1: into investing, tens of thousands of people that my kids 1974 01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:25,160 Speaker 1: friends call me for how to do their who to 1975 01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:29,719 Speaker 1: get recruited at a health tech company. Placing young people 1976 01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:34,920 Speaker 1: in careers is the greatest feeling in your life. The 1977 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:39,040 Speaker 1: COVID nightmare of kids working from home in zoom it depresses. No, 1978 01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:42,400 Speaker 1: we're not. It is the biggest problem right now. But 1979 01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,040 Speaker 1: we're already off topic. In terms of media. I love 1980 01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:48,720 Speaker 1: it all. I don't take a Jones, give me give 1981 01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:51,639 Speaker 1: me another one. Beef my friends at eight twenty four, 1982 01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:52,200 Speaker 1: So I. 1983 01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:55,479 Speaker 2: Just added that is that it's very dark and interesting. 1984 01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:57,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's A twenty five is very. 1985 01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,360 Speaker 2: Good and very old. Guy who's on it is also 1986 01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:01,120 Speaker 2: very good. 1987 01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:01,400 Speaker 1: Very good. 1988 01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:02,599 Speaker 2: I haven't watched it yet. 1989 01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,400 Speaker 1: So someone who reads my blog, Robbie Nandne, who is 1990 01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:08,519 Speaker 1: a partner at A twenty four which was like the 1991 01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:12,920 Speaker 1: A sixteen Z date of Media Big Studio, and he 1992 01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:14,920 Speaker 1: just emailed me on my blog one day, goes Dad, 1993 01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm fascinating, you know, And I'm always fascinated that smart 1994 01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,559 Speaker 1: people are reading me. And you know, longtime reader, first 1995 01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:25,280 Speaker 1: time commenter, you get that all the time too, and 1996 01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:28,160 Speaker 1: it just amazes me who reads what I write? And 1997 01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm not so fascinating and trying to meet the biggest celebrities, 1998 01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:33,479 Speaker 1: right the fact that Robbie is a creator and did 1999 01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:38,360 Speaker 1: the Romi Show, and I'm fascinated by like media because 2000 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:40,599 Speaker 1: I did it like myself, and I don't know. It's 2001 01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:45,240 Speaker 1: like it's like, you know, with the Wizard of Oz 2002 01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:47,320 Speaker 1: when you meet the wizard like you knows a s 2003 01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:52,040 Speaker 1: getting to see behind the curtain and realizing nothing's going 2004 01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:55,680 Speaker 1: on behind the curtain. You have to see it to 2005 01:40:55,760 --> 01:41:00,320 Speaker 1: believe my CBS meeting, as stupid as it was was, 2006 01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:03,840 Speaker 1: to have that meaning and be in that room, you 2007 01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:04,760 Speaker 1: can't make it up. 2008 01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:08,840 Speaker 2: I picture the episode of Seinfeld where they're pitching the 2009 01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:12,599 Speaker 2: Seinfeld Chronicles to NBC. To me, that's the show. What 2010 01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:15,479 Speaker 2: something happens, that's the show. Why are you watching it? 2011 01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:17,160 Speaker 2: It's on television not yet. 2012 01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:20,120 Speaker 1: So to know that I lived it. People can't take 2013 01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,760 Speaker 1: that away from me. And to know when to meet 2014 01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:25,680 Speaker 1: people that create great content. And we have a documentary 2015 01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:26,719 Speaker 1: that you're coming to see. 2016 01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,360 Speaker 2: So this is financial advice. You can say it on the. 2017 01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:32,840 Speaker 1: This is not financial advice. It's going to be fantastic. 2018 01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:36,400 Speaker 2: By the way, we had the Dosee guy at future 2019 01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:41,440 Speaker 2: Proof and it's it's like curby your enthusiasm for money. 2020 01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:45,000 Speaker 2: It's so cringey watching this guy go from nothing to 2021 01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,519 Speaker 2: the greatest dollary and then you're watching him blow it 2022 01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:51,479 Speaker 2: up and you ask a screen Adam, you know what's 2023 01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:53,960 Speaker 2: gonna happen. You see it coming, and he is just 2024 01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:57,800 Speaker 2: so oblivious to what's the freight train barreling down at him. 2025 01:41:58,080 --> 01:41:59,639 Speaker 2: It's very hard to take your eyes. 2026 01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:02,080 Speaker 1: Odds me making money or getting my money back or 2027 01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:07,439 Speaker 1: five percent zero show Labor of Love with Chris Temple 2028 01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:12,400 Speaker 1: created this incredible documentary. The reviews are insane. By the 2029 01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:14,320 Speaker 1: time this comes out, you will know that it is 2030 01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:18,519 Speaker 1: by Tribeca Film Things Right, it's one for one on 2031 01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:23,200 Speaker 1: my movie. I have a red cashmere suit to wear 2032 01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:27,160 Speaker 1: to the opening. What is the goal? My t score? 2033 01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,160 Speaker 1: My testosterone score. It's a new thing that I'm launching 2034 01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,000 Speaker 1: where people wear their te score around their neck. 2035 01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:34,560 Speaker 2: What is the what is the launch date of this 2036 01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:35,719 Speaker 2: is financial advice? 2037 01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:39,000 Speaker 1: The opening date the Tribecca debut is in June. 2038 01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:42,080 Speaker 2: Oh so you still have Monster? Yeah, so so so 2039 01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:45,479 Speaker 2: I love media clearly. Let's let's talk about mentors. You 2040 01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:49,800 Speaker 2: mentioned Fred Wilson. Who else helped shape your career besides Fred? 2041 01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:52,599 Speaker 2: Or Is Fred really the most significant mentor? 2042 01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:56,400 Speaker 1: No, obviously, I mean again, I don't speak to him 2043 01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,920 Speaker 1: all the time, but he allows me to check in 2044 01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,840 Speaker 1: and ask him questions. A lot of my LPs are 2045 01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:04,559 Speaker 1: my mentors, even though they give me money. I'm there 2046 01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:07,760 Speaker 1: like I've surrounded myself like Paul Grimberg, who's chairman of 2047 01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:10,040 Speaker 1: Exos Bank, and I've met. 2048 01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:13,000 Speaker 2: Some really interesting LPs at your last event. 2049 01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:17,160 Speaker 1: So my LPs are my mentors. Roger Ehrenberg, Brad Feld, 2050 01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:22,439 Speaker 1: people that trusted me, and you know, they don't They 2051 01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:26,200 Speaker 1: know that I'm weird. They believe in me, but they 2052 01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:29,120 Speaker 1: know also that I don't know what I'm doing, and 2053 01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:31,719 Speaker 1: so they pick up the phone because they to this day. 2054 01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:33,240 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you don't know what you're doing? 2055 01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? 2056 01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:36,559 Speaker 2: Are you really that deep into the imposter syndrome thing? 2057 01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:39,040 Speaker 1: No, I'm not deep into it, like they've not even. 2058 01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:40,760 Speaker 2: I joke about it. I'm like, I don't think it 2059 01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,280 Speaker 2: really exists. He's like, no, No, you got to talk 2060 01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:47,800 Speaker 2: to people who want sociopaths like you, it actually exists. 2061 01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm I think I don't have it. 2062 01:43:51,360 --> 01:43:55,559 Speaker 1: I just have been humbled ridiculously a few times. That's 2063 01:43:55,640 --> 01:44:00,000 Speaker 1: fair that I have to be really careful and again writing. 2064 01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,960 Speaker 2: Both private and public markets are a very humbling place. 2065 01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:05,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. So if I'm Elon Musk and. 2066 01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:07,680 Speaker 2: You have a lot to be humble about is the 2067 01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:08,240 Speaker 2: old joke. 2068 01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,840 Speaker 1: So if Elon Musk, what bugs me about it is 2069 01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,400 Speaker 1: is there nobody whispering in his ear that he looks 2070 01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:16,360 Speaker 1: like an ass. I would hope that my wife and 2071 01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:19,839 Speaker 1: my daughter would come to me and stop me before 2072 01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:23,439 Speaker 1: I embarrass myself day after day. Now, is he embarrassed? No, 2073 01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:25,320 Speaker 1: So again, I'm not judging. 2074 01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,120 Speaker 2: But that's just hoping that he should be. 2075 01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that my wife and my daughter who read 2076 01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:31,760 Speaker 1: my blog will say, you're full of yourself. You need 2077 01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:36,160 Speaker 1: to tone it down and guess what, they're pretty good at telling. 2078 01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:39,160 Speaker 2: Me that that's the importance of having some no men 2079 01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:43,320 Speaker 2: around you. I tweet something that's tenth as idiotic as 2080 01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:47,559 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, and the the tweet is barely live when 2081 01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:51,920 Speaker 2: bat Nick comes storming into my office, idiot, delete that. 2082 01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:56,040 Speaker 2: You know that you're like junior partner here and I'm 2083 01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:56,679 Speaker 2: the chairman. 2084 01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:58,120 Speaker 1: I don't care. 2085 01:44:58,360 --> 01:45:02,479 Speaker 2: That's the dumbest thing you have a tweet. Take that down. Okay, 2086 01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:05,000 Speaker 2: I don't even think about it anymore. Maybe that was 2087 01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:08,720 Speaker 2: my response five years ago. Now Batnick says that's a 2088 01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,040 Speaker 2: bad tweet. I'm like, okay, I don't even think about it. 2089 01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:16,760 Speaker 2: It's automatic. What Elon Musk needs is a Batnick. If 2090 01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:18,760 Speaker 2: he had a Batnick, he wouldn't have pissed forty four 2091 01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:19,679 Speaker 2: billion dollars away. 2092 01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:21,439 Speaker 1: Well, he has people cheering him on. 2093 01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the opposite. He has anti Batnicks. He has 2094 01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:29,760 Speaker 2: people the soulging his worst instincts, rather than saying, that's 2095 01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,160 Speaker 2: a lot of money for a really crappy property that 2096 01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:35,479 Speaker 2: nobody's ever been able to monetize and its business model 2097 01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:39,280 Speaker 2: is awful, and you're running two or more other companies, 2098 01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:41,799 Speaker 2: maybe you should just keep tweeting for free. 2099 01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:44,320 Speaker 1: Nobody said that that. Yeah. I wrote about this recently. 2100 01:45:44,520 --> 01:45:49,439 Speaker 1: We wanted to disrupt television and we got television times 2101 01:45:49,439 --> 01:45:51,920 Speaker 1: one hundred, so we wanted we wanted to get rid 2102 01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:54,960 Speaker 1: of Jim Kramer. We got twenty Jim Kramer with more 2103 01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:57,200 Speaker 1: power than we thought. That's what they would have. Jim 2104 01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:01,000 Speaker 1: Kramer is lightweight compared to the Chama, David Sash and 2105 01:46:01,160 --> 01:46:04,880 Speaker 1: Laughing el Mos, the Peter Thiels. You just don't know 2106 01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:07,360 Speaker 1: if they're happy about the system blowing up. You can't 2107 01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:11,320 Speaker 1: tell if they like it, and I guess we shouldn't 2108 01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:14,719 Speaker 1: like it. I love the system. I don't think it's perfect. 2109 01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:17,920 Speaker 1: I love the things work. They're not working great, but 2110 01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:20,200 Speaker 1: relative to everywhere else, it's a miracle. 2111 01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:23,439 Speaker 2: Jamath turns his business into a family office. I think 2112 01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,920 Speaker 2: he's happy with it. I can't. I can't tell you 2113 01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:30,800 Speaker 2: about everybody else. Some of these guys, I think if 2114 01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:33,280 Speaker 2: their daddy's hugged them when they were younger, we could 2115 01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:35,759 Speaker 2: avoid it a lot. I don't know a lot of adjida. 2116 01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to play pop psychologists to any. 2117 01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:40,320 Speaker 1: No one hugged me, okay, and you worked at all? Right, 2118 01:46:40,439 --> 01:46:43,439 Speaker 1: that's right. I did have Jack one time saying on 2119 01:46:43,479 --> 01:46:45,639 Speaker 1: Twitter to one of my tweets that I needed a hug. 2120 01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,479 Speaker 1: And I think one of the proudest father moments I 2121 01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:51,519 Speaker 1: had was that my daughter came right into the thread 2122 01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:55,759 Speaker 1: and said he got plenty of hug ah. So that's awesome. 2123 01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:59,080 Speaker 1: When your daughter is defending you to check its dorsey 2124 01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:02,280 Speaker 1: on Twitter her and he disappears from the conversation. He 2125 01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:07,920 Speaker 1: just never responded, can't respond. My daughter destroyed him. He 2126 01:47:07,960 --> 01:47:10,200 Speaker 1: didn't know what he was walking into this. That was 2127 01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:12,760 Speaker 1: my problem with Twitter. I go, Jack, you don't know 2128 01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,080 Speaker 1: how to use your own product. My twenty four year 2129 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:18,599 Speaker 1: old daughter just shamed you off your own product. That's 2130 01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:21,720 Speaker 1: she's a great girl. Like she's great. She lives Upper East, 2131 01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:23,799 Speaker 1: so I'm really proud she's here. One of the proudest 2132 01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:26,320 Speaker 1: things I have. Yeah, So one of the proudest things 2133 01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:28,719 Speaker 1: I have is my daughter lives in New York living 2134 01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,960 Speaker 1: the entrepreneur as a father who's an entrepreneur, an American 2135 01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:35,760 Speaker 1: born Canada, but an American. To see to have your 2136 01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:39,880 Speaker 1: daughter live in New York, the entrepreneurial city in America, Huh, 2137 01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:44,640 Speaker 1: this is that's good, Daddy, she likes New York. You 2138 01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:46,439 Speaker 1: want your kid to like New York. 2139 01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:51,760 Speaker 2: You it's not for everybody. I try it, but right, yeah, 2140 01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:55,240 Speaker 2: or any large city like Chicago or my I. 2141 01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,439 Speaker 1: Was not the same city. New York is closest to 2142 01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:00,960 Speaker 1: being the same city. Ain't the same city. 2143 01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:03,640 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. Let's talk about books. What are some 2144 01:48:03,680 --> 01:48:05,280 Speaker 2: of your favorites. What are you reading right now? 2145 01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:06,840 Speaker 1: I have not read a lot of books in the 2146 01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:10,880 Speaker 1: last twenty years. Three books that define that I still 2147 01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:15,880 Speaker 1: remember vividly and as the Agasy book. Ob Yeah, the 2148 01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,120 Speaker 1: Shoe Dog Book, which is going to spawn one hundred movies, obviously, 2149 01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:20,879 Speaker 1: just his first. 2150 01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was good. It was good. I 2151 01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:25,000 Speaker 2: don't know if i'd call it great, but it was so. 2152 01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:28,160 Speaker 1: It was a business book, yeah, Meaning if you're an 2153 01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:32,320 Speaker 1: internet entrepreneur and haven't read Shoe Dog, you're not going 2154 01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:34,400 Speaker 1: to be a good entrepreneur. To see that he went 2155 01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:36,759 Speaker 1: ten years before he got to ten million in sales. 2156 01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:40,320 Speaker 1: These kids today with their global growth in the first week. 2157 01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:42,960 Speaker 1: So No Shoe Dog was great. Reminiscent of Stock Operator 2158 01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:45,840 Speaker 1: was great. There's just not that many books that I get. 2159 01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:49,479 Speaker 2: Hey man, that's that's three solid books right there. You're 2160 01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:52,000 Speaker 2: okay with it. Our last two questions, what sort of 2161 01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:55,439 Speaker 2: advice would you give a recent college grad interested in 2162 01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:59,320 Speaker 2: a career in either seed investing or venture capital. 2163 01:48:59,560 --> 01:49:01,960 Speaker 1: Well, first, be nice to your parents because you're gonna 2164 01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:06,400 Speaker 1: need capital, right, and the first thing is right, stop 2165 01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:08,559 Speaker 1: thinking about who's reading it. You know, we're an investment 2166 01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:11,680 Speaker 1: in Beehive, which is like a newsletter writing product, or 2167 01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:13,479 Speaker 1: whether you're going to do it on mirror wherever you're 2168 01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:17,040 Speaker 1: going to or Twitter wherever it's easiest. Start writing and 2169 01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:21,400 Speaker 1: stop worrying about who's reading it. Write what you want 2170 01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:25,200 Speaker 1: to write about, and that's how you build a domain experience. 2171 01:49:25,240 --> 01:49:28,439 Speaker 1: You have to have be passionate about something because that 2172 01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:31,280 Speaker 1: will help you see around corners. Whether if my son 2173 01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:34,479 Speaker 1: is golf for my daughter she's not quite sure yet. 2174 01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:38,519 Speaker 1: It's New York and it's like operations. If you don't 2175 01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:41,439 Speaker 1: do it and do it you can't possibly know that 2176 01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,360 Speaker 1: you're going to be good at it. So the faster 2177 01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:46,160 Speaker 1: you figure out something that you want to do, And 2178 01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:49,920 Speaker 1: I think the easiest thing to do is write that's 2179 01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:52,519 Speaker 1: something that people should do. The second most important thing 2180 01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:55,280 Speaker 1: is forget about the job title. Go work at a 2181 01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:59,160 Speaker 1: company whose product is flying off the shelf. So when 2182 01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:00,800 Speaker 1: we were kids, you and I and I was a 2183 01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:03,719 Speaker 1: stockbroker and whatever your first job was. You're a lawyer. 2184 01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:09,760 Speaker 1: Our job was to just follow directions right right, Like 2185 01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:12,880 Speaker 1: our job was simply you get out there and you 2186 01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:15,479 Speaker 1: follow this rule book and you make two hundred calls 2187 01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,519 Speaker 1: a day and so and so and so and so 2188 01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:20,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like pick up that phone. 2189 01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:22,600 Speaker 1: We've seen the movies. Wait a minute, what's the. 2190 01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:24,680 Speaker 2: Question you used to get a grid? How many do 2191 01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:25,719 Speaker 2: an axe every call? 2192 01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:28,160 Speaker 1: And I forget the question? Yeah, what's the question? 2193 01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:30,479 Speaker 2: So what advice would you give these kids who want 2194 01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:32,560 Speaker 2: to start out? And see it our VC investments. 2195 01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:36,640 Speaker 1: So so the thing is you've got to go and 2196 01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:39,160 Speaker 1: not worry about the title. So that if you're not 2197 01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:42,679 Speaker 1: worried about the title, go work at a company whose 2198 01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:44,720 Speaker 1: product is flying off the shelf. Don't go push a 2199 01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:47,120 Speaker 1: rock up a hill. So forget about the title what 2200 01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,240 Speaker 1: your pay is. You are going to see things that 2201 01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:51,160 Speaker 1: you won't see anywhere else. If you work at a 2202 01:50:51,200 --> 01:50:54,040 Speaker 1: company whose product is flying off the shelf, there'll be 2203 01:50:54,120 --> 01:50:56,680 Speaker 1: so much work to do, they'll be you won't have 2204 01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:59,679 Speaker 1: to hide out. You could shine because there are holes 2205 01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:02,640 Speaker 1: to fill. So the biggest mistake young people make is 2206 01:51:03,080 --> 01:51:04,880 Speaker 1: they want to just get a job for a certain 2207 01:51:04,920 --> 01:51:08,000 Speaker 1: salary and work at a bank. Go like, whether it's Manscape, 2208 01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:11,080 Speaker 1: one of our companies, or whether it was the messaging app, 2209 01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:15,160 Speaker 1: whatever is flying off the shelves, Get yourself in that room, 2210 01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:18,800 Speaker 1: Take a maintenance job, take an office manager job, but 2211 01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:19,720 Speaker 1: just get in the door. 2212 01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:23,080 Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the 2213 01:51:23,120 --> 01:51:26,799 Speaker 2: world of seed investing that you wish you knew seventy 2214 01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,320 Speaker 2: five years ago when you were first getting started. 2215 01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:32,519 Speaker 1: You know, luckily, I think it's such a new thing 2216 01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:34,720 Speaker 1: that I don't know if there was anything. I think 2217 01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:36,880 Speaker 1: that the thing that I got lucky more than no, 2218 01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:39,960 Speaker 1: is it was just the right time right like that 2219 01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:42,639 Speaker 1: there was people like Fred and Roger writing and Brad 2220 01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:44,960 Speaker 1: Felder writing. So what do I wish I knew? 2221 01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:48,880 Speaker 2: And I don't mean buy Apple at two dollars. I mean, 2222 01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:52,160 Speaker 2: what would have been useful earlier in your career that 2223 01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:55,480 Speaker 2: you now feels a bit of hard won wisdom. 2224 01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:58,200 Speaker 1: I think I got lucky because going to the market 2225 01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:03,280 Speaker 1: first and exit seeing how markets crash and really seeing 2226 01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:06,960 Speaker 1: like how a cycle worked before I got into angel 2227 01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:09,720 Speaker 1: investing was actually lucky. So I would say to those 2228 01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:11,960 Speaker 1: people who think they want to be seed investors, is 2229 01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:15,360 Speaker 1: open a Robinhood account, even if it's one like learn 2230 01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:18,400 Speaker 1: what it feels like to lose money. Learn what it 2231 01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:22,040 Speaker 1: feels like to both make money and feel you for 2232 01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:24,640 Speaker 1: it right and feel like you're an idiot, and that 2233 01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:27,599 Speaker 1: will get you a feel and now you know. Obviously 2234 01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:30,200 Speaker 1: you can go to Vegas or go on draftings and 2235 01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:33,120 Speaker 1: get the same thing. But those are very much not 2236 01:52:33,240 --> 01:52:35,200 Speaker 1: positive expectancy type things. 2237 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:37,960 Speaker 2: Like the stock market, whereas the market is. Yeah, Howard, 2238 01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:42,080 Speaker 2: thanks so much for being so generous with your time. Really, 2239 01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:44,800 Speaker 2: this has been a delight we have been speaking with 2240 01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:48,880 Speaker 2: Howard Linsen. He is the co founder of stock Twitz, 2241 01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:52,200 Speaker 2: the founder of wall Strip, the managing partner and founder 2242 01:52:52,280 --> 01:52:58,160 Speaker 2: of Social Leverage, a pre IPO investor in Facebook, in Twitter, 2243 01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:02,720 Speaker 2: and the really the first check into Robinhood. Is that right? 2244 01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:07,000 Speaker 2: That's amazing. If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure 2245 01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,680 Speaker 2: and check out any of our previous four hundred and 2246 01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:13,519 Speaker 2: ninety six discussions we've had over the past eight and 2247 01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:18,800 Speaker 2: a half years. You can find those at YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, 2248 01:53:19,160 --> 01:53:22,600 Speaker 2: wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Sign up for my 2249 01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:25,479 Speaker 2: daily reading list at ridults dot com. Follow me on 2250 01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:29,120 Speaker 2: Twitter at Ridolts, Follow all of the fine family of 2251 01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:33,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. I would be remiss if I 2252 01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:36,240 Speaker 2: did not thank the crack staff that helps me put 2253 01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:41,680 Speaker 2: these conversations together each week. Samantha Danzinger is my audio engineer. 2254 01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:46,639 Speaker 2: Harris Wold is my producer. Attika Balbrunn is my project manager. 2255 01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:51,360 Speaker 2: Sean Russo is my researcher. I'm Barry Ridolts. You've been 2256 01:53:51,400 --> 01:53:57,320 Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio 2257 01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:00,240 Speaker 1: FO