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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we are discussing the pros and cons of

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Speaker 1: the Fire movement. Joel, you know, when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the topics that we we talked about here on the show,

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Speaker 1: we were trying to take into account the calendar occasionally, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we look at the different holidays that we celebrate here

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Speaker 1: in the US, and sometimes if they can complement each

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Speaker 1: other a little bit, that's a good thing. And so

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Speaker 1: that's actually part of why we're talking about Fire, which

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Speaker 1: is financial independence. Retire early this weekend, We've got the

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Speaker 1: fourth of July coming up, and not only are we

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Speaker 1: going to celebrate our independence from British rule, but we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about our ability to have independence from our jobs, uh,

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Speaker 1: and to be financially independent. So I'm excited to to

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Speaker 1: dive into this, man. Yeah, it's portant topic. And the

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Speaker 1: Fire movement in particular has kind of had its detractors.

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Speaker 1: It's had a lot of followers, It's gained a lot

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Speaker 1: of followers in the past decade. And Matt, you and

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Speaker 1: I are friends with a lot of people inside of

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Speaker 1: the movement. I don't know if you and I are

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Speaker 1: inside of it or not. We're kind of get on

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Speaker 1: the fringes fringes, So yeah, we'll talk more about that

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Speaker 1: in this episode. But yeah, I agree, perfect timing while

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Speaker 1: we're celebrating our independence this weekend as a country. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that, Matt, I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know about and and let our listeners know about

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Speaker 1: a cheap way to travel that. Yeah, you've got this

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Speaker 1: travel note on here. What's this all about? Most people

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Speaker 1: probably haven't thought about this, and it's traveling by bus.

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Speaker 1: So my wife and kids are going to go to

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Speaker 1: Memphis to visit her family for a little bit. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go with them, but I have to come back

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Speaker 1: to Atlanta for something, and I don't want to drop

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Speaker 1: a hundred fifty bucks on a round trip ticket. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I don't know if I want to get

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Speaker 1: into an airplane right now, and so I was looking

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Speaker 1: up Megabus tickets. I don't know how many people out

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Speaker 1: there know about Megabus, which also I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: I want to get on the bus right now. So

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Speaker 1: all these things are really just up in the air

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Speaker 1: at this point in time. But it was just interesting

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Speaker 1: to note the ask difference, the disparity in the price

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Speaker 1: between taking a bus or taking an airplane, and on Megabus,

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Speaker 1: I was instead of paying a hundred fifty or a

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty bucks like I would traveling in an airplane,

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Speaker 1: I was going to get a round trip ticket for

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Speaker 1: fifteen dollars. And that's pretty sweet, man, that's a good discount.

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Speaker 1: That's ten times less than your your airfare. Yeah, an

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Speaker 1: internet on megabus is free. You grab a seat, you

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Speaker 1: kind of check out, you can pull up in your laptop, geill,

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Speaker 1: get a little done, take a nap, listen to some

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Speaker 1: podcasts to sort, walk down the aisland, offer you a drink.

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Speaker 1: They don't do that. They don't do that. No no

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Speaker 1: service or anything like that. And I know it's not

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Speaker 1: for everybody, but but for me, man, I've done megabus

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Speaker 1: a few times. I think it's totally worth it for

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Speaker 1: people that haven't looked into any of the discount bus

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Speaker 1: services that will take you from city to city across

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Speaker 1: the country. I mean, at this point, megabus basically traverses

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Speaker 1: I think the entire country, so you could get to

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Speaker 1: a lot of places. If you get a little extra

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Speaker 1: tome in your hands, you don't mind an eight hour

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Speaker 1: trip as opposed to a two hour airline trip. I

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Speaker 1: would say man megabus or some of the other discount

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Speaker 1: and bus lines are definitely something that you should think

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Speaker 1: about when you're planning your travel. It's a great option

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Speaker 1: if you don't need that convenience, But obviously it's a

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Speaker 1: great option too if you don't have a vehicle, right,

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Speaker 1: and so if you're on a budget, you don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, traveling by bus is a great

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Speaker 1: way to cover some long distances. But yeah, I'm with you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not too sure if I want to sit on

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Speaker 1: a bus like an enclosed space, you know, breathing the

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Speaker 1: same air that these other people are breathing for eight hours. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not sure if I'm actually gonna pull the

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Speaker 1: trigger this time. But I've readen megabus before and I

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Speaker 1: was just like shocked at the disparity, Like it's so

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Speaker 1: much cheaper, and obviously it takes more time, and you're

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Speaker 1: on a bus like you're not on a plane. It's

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Speaker 1: not quite as fancy of travel, but still you're saving

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of money, and so that definitely should

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Speaker 1: put it on your list of things to to research

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at domestic travel, and of course don't

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Speaker 1: forget the one dollar seats that you can get, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the first few seats that they start selling

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Speaker 1: for a specific ride they sell for one dollar, which

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Speaker 1: is that's kind of their claim to fame, even yeah,

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Speaker 1: even more amazing. But but yeah, man, that's cool. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you are considering some creative ways to to save money.

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Speaker 1: But before we dive into this episode and we start

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Speaker 1: talking about five, let's go ahead and introduce our beer

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Speaker 1: for this episode real quick. We are sharing a fruit

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Speaker 1: and hops on the bottom and this is a collaboration

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Speaker 1: between Still Water as well as Hoofhearted Brewing and um Hoofhearted.

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Speaker 1: By the way, their their name is a kind of

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Speaker 1: play on words. Those guys are prettymature, That's why I

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Speaker 1: made you say at this time. But they're pretty funny,

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Speaker 1: silly little brewery. But it makes them really good beers.

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Speaker 1: And I'm excited to share this in with you. It

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Speaker 1: will share our thoughts on this specific beer at the

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Speaker 1: end of the episode. Sounds good man, looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get onto the subject at hand. Today

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Speaker 1: on the show, we're discussing the pros and cons of

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Speaker 1: the fire movement, and Matt, as you said, fire stands

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Speaker 1: for financial independence, retire early. It's this movement of people

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Speaker 1: that want to take control of their personal finances to

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Speaker 1: the extent that they can quit their job if they

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Speaker 1: can retire much much earlier than most people have ever

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Speaker 1: even thought about. A lot of people in this movement

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Speaker 1: want to retire in their late twenties or thirties or forties.

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Speaker 1: And this movement has really gained a lot of steam

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Speaker 1: over the past decade. And the tenants of fire, Matt,

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Speaker 1: you and I are all about a lot of the

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Speaker 1: tenants that this movement of goes by. It offers a

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Speaker 1: lot of wisdom for people who want to handle their money. Well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of those particular tenants you and I kind

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Speaker 1: of talk about on the show. Anyway, we just don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily label it fire, right. And it turns out there

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Speaker 1: was increase in Google searches for fire over the past

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Speaker 1: six years, and I think they were searching for this fire,

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Speaker 1: not the not the other kind, but the Chicago fire,

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Speaker 1: not the Chicago fire, not fire in the woods. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, this movement has just piaqued some

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Speaker 1: interest and fire has become an easier message to convey,

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Speaker 1: especially as our country was experiencing this long period of

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Speaker 1: economic expansion, right, the longest bull market in history, that

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Speaker 1: tenure bull run. And the foundation of fire is based

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Speaker 1: in a retirement portfolio which is invested mostly in the

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Speaker 1: stock market, and of course that's growing like crazy for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people until this most recent downturn. But

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Speaker 1: because of that recent volatility we've seen, the fire movement

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Speaker 1: has lost a little bit of its luster for some folks.

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Speaker 1: So today you and I were going to discuss the

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Speaker 1: state of the fire movement and kind of our thoughts

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Speaker 1: about it in general. Yeah, you know, even that we

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Speaker 1: agree with most of the tenants of Fire, like any

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Speaker 1: good movement, there can be side effects or you know,

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Speaker 1: negative consequences that can occur when something is taken too

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Speaker 1: far right. Just like with almost anything in life, when

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Speaker 1: there isn't a proper balance, something good can easily become

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Speaker 1: something bad very quickly. Like I'm thinking about bikes. You

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Speaker 1: and I we love bikes. There's lots of reasons why

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Speaker 1: bikes are are such a good thing. But you know

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Speaker 1: what if that's all we talked about, like we would

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Speaker 1: just become those bike guys that people aren't gonna want

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Speaker 1: to be our friends anymore? Are we those money guys

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Speaker 1: that people don't want to be friends with. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we have a proper amount of money in our life. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, that's what we're gonna talk about today,

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Speaker 1: like the pros and the cons what's good and what's

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Speaker 1: not so good about fire? But before we go any further,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do want to make sure we clearly

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Speaker 1: define fire, uh. And fire is achieved when a person

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Speaker 1: can generate a stream of cash flow from accumulated assets

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Speaker 1: that exceeds they're spending needs. And in addition to that,

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Speaker 1: they don't want it to take forty years to get there, right,

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Speaker 1: they are working on a massively truncated timetable. And this

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Speaker 1: is the essence of the Fire movement, which you know,

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Speaker 1: has been able to create something unique and unifying. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that's part of its power is the fact

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Speaker 1: that there is a sort of a community around this movement. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I think you're totally right. There's something about the acronym

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Speaker 1: of fire that really has garnered support and turned the

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Speaker 1: idea of financial independence into something that people can buy into.

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Speaker 1: And it creates this movement in this community around it

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Speaker 1: instead of just a disparate group of a frugal people

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Speaker 1: scattered all over the place. And matt our former guest

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Speaker 1: Tanya Hester, she wrote a book called Work Optional, and

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Speaker 1: that's her preferred terminology to refer to the Fire movement.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have quite the ring that the Fire movement

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Speaker 1: has to it doesn't sound nearly as dangerous right exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I think her term actually does encompass the heart

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Speaker 1: of the movement a little bit more. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's important for us to say too that the Fire

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Speaker 1: movement is overwhelmingly good right. Encourages people to save a

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Speaker 1: healthy portion of what they make, It spurs people to

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Speaker 1: look for ways to increase their income, that the movement

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Speaker 1: is all about simple investing to grow your wealth for

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Speaker 1: the long haul. And at the same time, the big

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Speaker 1: guns in the financial writing space have loved to take

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Speaker 1: pot shots at the Fire movement. They love to smack

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Speaker 1: it around every now and again. On one hand, millennials

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Speaker 1: get trashed for buying Latte's and avocado toast, and then

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Speaker 1: on the other side, I feel like they get smacked

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Speaker 1: around p having the audacity to think that they can

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Speaker 1: say fifty of their income and retire before the age

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Speaker 1: of seventy. So even though you and I were not

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Speaker 1: fire people, I do get tired of seeing the negative

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Speaker 1: headlines constantly surrounding fire, kind of wanting people in the

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Speaker 1: movement and wanting the movement as a whole to fail.

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Speaker 1: By the way, avocado toast is that something that you eat?

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Speaker 1: Are you fan of? I don't think I've ever had avoca? Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: The only reason I brought it up because I literally

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Speaker 1: had it for lunch today baby West and he didn't

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Speaker 1: finish half of his avocado, So I took some of

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Speaker 1: that and spread it on some of Kate's homemade bread.

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Speaker 1: We actually recently talked about homemade bread. But it's hard

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Speaker 1: to beat, uh, perfectly right, Avocado with a little bit

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Speaker 1: of mayonnaise, some salt and pepper, spread on some homemade

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Speaker 1: bread fancy is actually really good. So millennial right now.

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Speaker 1: If only it was sour dough, I'd be in the dream.

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Speaker 1: But no, man, I'm with you. I feel like big

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Speaker 1: media is kind of going after fire. It's it's something

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Speaker 1: at least that they are drawn to for one reason

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Speaker 1: or the other. But generally speaking, I think that frugality

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Speaker 1: should be encouraged. You know, seeing people go beyond just

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Speaker 1: the personal finance basics to max out the retirement accounts

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Speaker 1: and to save an enormous amount of their income. That

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Speaker 1: is just awesome. That increased savings rate put you just

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Speaker 1: in the driver's seat of your own future. But you know,

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Speaker 1: even though we do align with the Fire movement in

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Speaker 1: many ways, we're not all in. And so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get into the nuances of Fire and you and I, man,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna share our thoughts on it right after this break.

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Speaker 1: All right, Matt, we're back. We're talking about the Fire movement,

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Speaker 1: the pros and cons, and I feel like we just

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Speaker 1: kind of set it up nicely. We we made fire

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Speaker 1: sound pretty nice, and now it's a good thing. Let's

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Speaker 1: take it down to pay. That's been the next fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes destroying it. Yeah, well, definitely not gonna do that,

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Speaker 1: but but we will give kind of the things that

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Speaker 1: we feel the movement has missed or the ways in

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Speaker 1: which we feel like it's lacking before we flip the

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Speaker 1: coin and kind of tell our favorite things about the movement.

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Speaker 1: But one of the biggest things I think you and

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Speaker 1: I don't love about the Fire movement is that there's

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Speaker 1: too much sacrifice involved. Often for individuals who adhere to fire.

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Speaker 1: Often the fire devotees, they get tunnel vision, right. They

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Speaker 1: cobble together a plan that's based on sacrificing an inordinate

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Speaker 1: amount for a set period of time in order to

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Speaker 1: achieve a lofty goal of retiring early. But it's hard

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Speaker 1: to keep your nose to the grindstone for ten, twelve

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Speaker 1: or fifteen years, working sixty hour weeks or picking up

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Speaker 1: a couple of side gigs in order to ramp up

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Speaker 1: your savings to the highest level. Whatever your future fire

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Speaker 1: life looks like, it's important to incorporate some of those

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Speaker 1: things that you love now. If you want to travel

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Speaker 1: down the road when you achieve fire, prioritize at least

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Speaker 1: some travel now. If you're saying that fire is all

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Speaker 1: about more time with your family, well, don't pass up

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Speaker 1: on prioritizing family time now, believing that it's something you'll

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Speaker 1: have more of in the future when you finally achieve

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Speaker 1: that theoretical goal of of fire right. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's one of my biggest reasons for for not being

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Speaker 1: a fire adherent is that you and I, Matt, we

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Speaker 1: do want to prioritize the here and now, right, That's

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Speaker 1: why we drink a beer on every episode, And sometimes

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Speaker 1: that gets lost with the Fire crowd, any semblance of

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Speaker 1: enjoying life in the here and now while you're trying

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Speaker 1: to be thoughtful about saving for the future. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And granted not everyone that who is pursuing fire falls

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Speaker 1: into this trap, right, but this is one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest traps is that they're too focused on that goal

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Speaker 1: and they're not looking at the rest of their life.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's no guarantee that those interests that you

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Speaker 1: say that you're striving after, or like the relationships, like

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Speaker 1: even your family, like, there's no guarantee that they'll be

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Speaker 1: there waiting for you, and so making sure that you're

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Speaker 1: cultivating those things along the way is so important. It's

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Speaker 1: so important to have that balance. Matt. I remember reading

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Speaker 1: on Redd at this one guy who who posted about

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Speaker 1: the Fire movement and how it failed him and he

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Speaker 1: ended up losing this girlfriend that he loved because he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't pay for a plane ticket to go meet her parents.

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Speaker 1: And you know, maybe should have looked at megabus. There's

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Speaker 1: other ways to get around, could have done a cheaper

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Speaker 1: but that's one of those things too. I think that

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to prioritize the things that

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Speaker 1: are the most important to you right here and now.

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Speaker 1: And if you're having decent savings, right, spend the money

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Speaker 1: on a plane ticket to go visit your girlfriend's parents

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I mean that those are the kind of

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Speaker 1: decisions sometimes that fire devotees might make, and they risk

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Speaker 1: losing out on things that are really actually majorly important

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Speaker 1: because they're putting too much emphasis on their own future. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: almost specifically the money of their future, right because they're

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Speaker 1: what they're not taking into account are the relationships of

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Speaker 1: their future. But yeah, relationships are so important and and

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Speaker 1: for me, that's one of the reasons that I can't

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Speaker 1: say I completely subscribe to the Fire movement is because

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Speaker 1: of the time I want to spend with my kids, Right,

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Speaker 1: I could work harder, but like there's a stat out there,

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Speaker 1: and I wish I knew it exactly right, But essentially

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Speaker 1: that like the gist of it is that's and granted

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Speaker 1: this varies from person to person, but of the time

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Speaker 1: that we have with our kids, like total is spent

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Speaker 1: within the first eighteen years of their life, Like once

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Speaker 1: they move off, like you don't see your kids all

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Speaker 1: that often because they have their own families, their own interests,

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Speaker 1: their own friends, work, right, And so to think that

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Speaker 1: by sacrificing especially time, you know, when you have younger kids,

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Speaker 1: when you can make such an impact on their life,

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember that you're taking a big bite

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Speaker 1: out of that nine percent, which is the overwhelming amount

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Speaker 1: of time that you have with your kids at all,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so for me, I've always kept that

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Speaker 1: in mind. It's like, man, I am how far along

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Speaker 1: you know that with one with one of my kids,

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Speaker 1: our oldest is essentially one third of the way through.

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Speaker 1: That that's kind of crazy to think about. And so

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Speaker 1: relationships are certainly high on the list when it comes

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Speaker 1: to things that you don't want to sacrifice. Another potential

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Speaker 1: pitfall of the Fire movement is that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of emphasis that's placed on just how work is bad, right,

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Speaker 1: Like work oftentimes gets put in a negative light, and

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people inside the Fire movement

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Speaker 1: who are trying to combat this mindset. You know, I

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Speaker 1: actually think of this is more of an outside perception,

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Speaker 1: but still it's in the name, right, financial independence, retire

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Speaker 1: early achieving financial and been it's far before your peers.

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Speaker 1: It's admirable, but quote unquote early retirement makes work seem

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Speaker 1: like it's a drain, you know, and it's maybe something

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Speaker 1: that should be ditched at the earliest possible moment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and not everyone gets the job of their dreams like

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Speaker 1: podcasting or whatever, right, but we do have the job

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Speaker 1: of our dreams. If you think about it, what if

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Speaker 1: ten years ago I told you that you'd be able

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Speaker 1: to sit down with your best buddy talk about personal

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Speaker 1: finance and enjoy like some of the best craft beers

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Speaker 1: small around the country or even the world. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have believed you would you would believe me. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: crazy that it's an actual gig, and I'm really thankful

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Speaker 1: for it for sure. And yeah, I think that even

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Speaker 1: if you don't have a job that is something that

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Speaker 1: you would have been wowed by a decade ago. Most

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Speaker 1: of us at least find some sort of satisfaction in

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Speaker 1: our work. And kind of that negative mindset towards work,

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Speaker 1: the kind of view that that it's a slog just

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Speaker 1: to get through so that you can reach the other side.

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Speaker 1: We just don't think that's a great way to think

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Speaker 1: about work, and so I think the antidote to that

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Speaker 1: is to find fulfilling work. Right, So, instead of going

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Speaker 1: as hard as you possibly can in order to quit

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Speaker 1: work as or as humanly possible, be willing to make

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Speaker 1: less and do work that you love instead. It might

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Speaker 1: take you a little bit longer to reach that goal

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Speaker 1: of financial independence, but you're gonna be able to look

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Speaker 1: back on those years where you are accumulating wealth in

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Speaker 1: order to achieve financial independence with fondness. And it's important

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Speaker 1: to ask this question too. If you're ditching work, what

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Speaker 1: are you retiring too? Right? If your only goal is

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Speaker 1: to stop working, there's a high potential for negative side effects.

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Speaker 1: There needs to be something beyond just the goal of retiring.

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Speaker 1: Many of our friends in the fire space, they're not

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Speaker 1: quote unquote retiring in the traditional sense. They are actually

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Speaker 1: amassing enough in investments in order to pursue the work

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Speaker 1: that they love. So we're all about this, right, if

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the goal behind it. But sometimes I

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Speaker 1: think that negative view of work can be a little

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Speaker 1: soul crushing and it makes that journey to fire actually

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Speaker 1: really really difficult. Man. That is so true, And another

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Speaker 1: potential consequence of the fire movement is that you might

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Speaker 1: run out of money. Right if if you quit too

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Speaker 1: early and you're only hoping to amass just an amount

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Speaker 1: to cover your basic expenses, you might run out of money.

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Speaker 1: Like we don't want to get too nerdy here, but

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Speaker 1: it is very possible that you can overestimate how much

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Speaker 1: you're able to pull out of your retirement account every year.

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Speaker 1: A lot of folks go by the traditional four percent

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Speaker 1: withdrawal rate, but that that does not account for significant

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Speaker 1: drops in the market like we've seen recently. When your

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Speaker 1: retirement is based on your portfolio doing well in the market,

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Speaker 1: none of us know what the future holds and what

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Speaker 1: the market is going to do, so it's tough to

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Speaker 1: be completely dependent on that without taking a more conservative approach.

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Speaker 1: And then on the other side of the equation, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about expenses. You know, have you seen how much

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Speaker 1: healthcare costs have risen recently. Let's just say that it's

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Speaker 1: a problem. Understatement of the year, uh fidelity. They estimate

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Speaker 1: that couples at normal retirement age that they're gonna need

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Speaker 1: to ter and eighty five thousand to cover medical expenses alone.

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Speaker 1: And so some firefolks haven't planned well enough for post

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Speaker 1: retirement expenses like healthcare, And it also makes it harder

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Speaker 1: to to change your lifestyle when you're living on a

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Speaker 1: set income as well. There's just less flexibility there to

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Speaker 1: to what your options are. Yeah, I think sometimes the

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Speaker 1: fire movement right, It does a lot of good things,

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Speaker 1: but so many of the people to buy into it

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Speaker 1: maybe don't have quite a big enough picture about what

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Speaker 1: their potential expenses could be in retirement, and so it

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Speaker 1: makes it easy to go into it naively thinking that

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Speaker 1: if you just hit that twenty five times your annual expenses,

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Speaker 1: you're good to go quit your job. But there's so

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Speaker 1: much more at play in the nuance, especially when it

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Speaker 1: comes to withdraw rates and medical expenses in retirement. I

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Speaker 1: think you're completely right, Matt, And also to the fire

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Speaker 1: movement doesn't necessarily acknowledge very well the difficulty of getting

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Speaker 1: back into the workforce. So if you do find yourself

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Speaker 1: in a position where you need to become employed again,

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Speaker 1: maybe you realize, oh, grab, I didn't quite safe enough

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Speaker 1: and I need to go back to work. Left a

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Speaker 1: little bit too early, Yeah, I need to get back

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Speaker 1: in there. Well, leaving work too early is a move

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Speaker 1: that could really come back to bite you. If you're

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Speaker 1: out of the workforce for ten years and then you

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Speaker 1: realize that you do need to go back and learn more.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to jump back in and get a high

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Speaker 1: paying job. Chances are your skills are rusty, and the

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Speaker 1: dynamics and the technology have changed, making it less likely

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Speaker 1: that you're a fit in that profession anymore. And plus

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Speaker 1: you could be wasting some of your most productive working years.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you should work until you're sixty five,

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Speaker 1: no matter what I think financial independence an earlier age

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Speaker 1: is achievable, but it's important to realize that if you

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Speaker 1: haven't planned well enough and you do feel like you

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Speaker 1: have to go back to work at some point, it's

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Speaker 1: in all likelihood going to be much harder than you realize.

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Speaker 1: Original It could be a blessing in disguise, and it

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Speaker 1: might be way easier than you realize. You know, if

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Speaker 1: I quit something and then how to come back to

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Speaker 1: work to new years later, maybe I would just like

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Speaker 1: start to go work for a brewery, maybe a bike company. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you choose a completely different route as

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Speaker 1: you re enter the workforce. That's definitely a possibility, But Matt.

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Speaker 1: We even found this out with our friend five Am Joel,

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Speaker 1: who was on in January and he worked in the

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Speaker 1: technology field in California. He decided to bag work for

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Speaker 1: just a year or two and then trying to re

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Speaker 1: enter the workforce. It's been a lot harder than he

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Speaker 1: thought it was going to be. Yeah, it is not easy,

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Speaker 1: in particular if you're trying to get back to to

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Speaker 1: where you were right Like, you know, it's maybe fairly

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Speaker 1: easy to pick up any sort of entry level job

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Speaker 1: here and there, but to kind of resume your position,

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Speaker 1: like that's going to be very difficult. I agree. And

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Speaker 1: one other potential downside to the fire movement is that

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Speaker 1: it could put too much emphasis on ourselves. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: think that fire can make us a little too introspective.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to, but it certainly can. That knows

430
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 1: to the grindstone mentality that we mentioned earlier, can cause

431
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: firefolks to forego giving to important causes or generosity in general.

432
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 1: And that's the problem, because we believe that generosity is

433
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: an important part of a healthy detachment from our money.

434
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: And again, this is a general possible concern. You know,

435
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: we have fire friends who are incredibly generous, but trying

436
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: to amass a giant nest egg in roughly a decade

437
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 1: or even you know less, that can cause us to

438
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: live in a miserly manner that prioritizes ourselves to an

439
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: unhealthy extent. Yeah, if generosity is important to us, Matt,

440
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 1: just like we talked about earlier, if travel is important

441
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: to you, and you say that's what you're gonna do

442
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: when you achieve fire, well then you should prioritize at

443
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: least some of that. Now. That's right, same thing time

444
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 1: with your family, Same thing with generosity. Though. If you

445
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,400
Speaker 1: say generosity is important to me, I want to give

446
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: to local nonprofits, no matter to me. I want to

447
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 1: give to my church wherever it is. If you say, yeah,

448
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that when I achieve fire, when I

449
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: hit that massive nest egg, and I'm gonna be able

450
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 1: to put that in my expenses, and then I would

451
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 1: say that's an unhealthy way to live. We should be

452
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 1: prioritizing those things that matter to us now, even while

453
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 1: we're on that path of financial independence, even if it

454
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: delays our arrival at that point. So, yeah, I think

455
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: that's a really good thing to bring up. We don't

456
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: want to be stingy, and sometimes that focus on having

457
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 1: an exorbitant savings rate can cause that to be the case. Yeah, man,

458
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: we need to practice that habit of generosity well before

459
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 1: we feel like that we've you know, quote unquote arrived.

460
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk more about financial independence retire early,

461
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: specifically some of the pros, some of the benefits of it,

462
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get to those right after this break.

463
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, we're back from the break. I feel

464
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: like we just took Fire down a peg. And you

465
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: know what, we do have so many friends. We did

466
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: we get a little smack around, and a lot of

467
00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 1: our guests that we've had on the show are our

468
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: fire people because I feel like their voices are so

469
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: important in the financial community. Well yeah, and again, just

470
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: the viewpoints that they have on specific issues oftentimes align

471
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: with ours, and so it makes sense that a lot

472
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: of the people we like talking to are within the

473
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: fire community. Yeah. We hate the stock advice of like

474
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 1: say five or ten percent of what you make. We

475
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: think people should be shooting for more than that. And

476
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: the Fire movement definitely gets that right that you should

477
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 1: have a savings rate that goes far beyond just ten

478
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: percent of your income. And so, yeah, let's expand on

479
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: more of what we do love about the Fire movement.

480
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: So one of the first things is that fire does

481
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: give you increased flexibility and control of your life. One

482
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: of the biggest pros of the Fire movement is that

483
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: it allows us to not have to work for money.

484
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: Those chances are at least for Matt and I will

485
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: still work in some capacity because that's something that we love.

486
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: And really, how hard is it to create a podcast

487
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: where you're drinking beer. But achieving fire will allow us

488
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: to do a lot of different things, like pursue whatever

489
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: sort of work we want to do then, and it

490
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: means that we're not necessarily handcuffed to a job just

491
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: to get a paycheck. It could allow us to volunteer, more,

492
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: travel more, whatever it is that you love. It allows

493
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: for more of that. And that's one of the things

494
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: that we do love about the Fire movement. We love

495
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: about people having, you know, more money in their corner

496
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 1: to to create more flexibility and choice. Yeah, being in

497
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: the luxurious position of not having to worry about your

498
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: income anymore. That gives you that flexibility and that control. Also,

499
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: Fire gives you a clearly defined goal. You know, a

500
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: lot of individuals who are pursuing fire have a number

501
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: in mind. Typically it's a it's a net worth that

502
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 1: is oftentimes twenty five times their annual spending, and you know,

503
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: when they have this much saved and invested, they've reached fire. Now,

504
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: you know, this is just a rule of thumb, and

505
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: we're not going to dive into whether or not, you know,

506
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: we think that that's the best number to go by,

507
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: but regardless, it gives you something to strive after, and

508
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: it allows you to measure all other decisions in your

509
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: life through this filter. It gives you clarity, and oftentimes

510
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 1: I think that's something that a lot of us are

511
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: lacking clarity in a sense of direction. You know, after

512
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: you go through twelve, sixteen, eighteen years with the schooling,

513
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of our life where we haven't been

514
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: making these these hard decisions. You know, you kind of

515
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: make one decision to kind of go this direction, and

516
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: then we're just kind of fed assignments, homework, we're told

517
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: what to do, and then we kind of go out

518
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: into the real world and we don't exactly know what

519
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: we're striving after. And I think This is a reason

520
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 1: why Fire has taken off because people have identified, Oh,

521
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: this is this is my new cheese, this is my

522
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: new goal, this is what I'm striving after. There's something

523
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: really powerful about that in the direction that it can

524
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: give an individual. Yeah, I completely agree, man, That clearly

525
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: defined goal is massively powerful. You know another thing the

526
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: Fire movement does incredibly well is their emphasis on lowering

527
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: your spending. Like, when you've identified what your network needs

528
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: to be, or you figured out what your monthly income

529
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: from investments needs to be, you realize that every dollar

530
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: not spent has potential for you. Most of us float

531
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: through life and we spend on a whim, but even

532
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: those small spending decisions have a real impact on our

533
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,959
Speaker 1: savings rate. So instead of spending pursuit of that number, right,

534
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: pursuit of achieving that Fire number encourages cooking me at home,

535
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: buying much older used cars, getting credit card bonuses without

536
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: accrewing credit card debt, living in cheaper accommodations, right, all

537
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: sorts of outside of the box ways to save that

538
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: Initially you might reject out of hand, but when you

539
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: have this larger goal that you're looking to achieve, you're

540
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: more than happy to lower your spending and do things

541
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: that you maybe previously otherwise wouldn't have even considered. This right,

542
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: and one other thing too, let's talk about what you're

543
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: retiring to. You know, like we mentioned earlier, it's not

544
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: just about retiring from work that you dislike, but it's

545
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: more about pursuing something that is even more meaningful. You know,

546
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: I think one of the best gifts that the journey

547
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: to fire it can give you is the ability to

548
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: thoroughly think through what it is that you want your

549
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: life to look like after you're financially independent, or maybe

550
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: after you've retired early. Because once you've grasped that achievement,

551
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: you're forced to realize that money and materialism that they

552
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: don't equal happiness in and of themselves, Like, there has

553
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: to be something else beyond the net worth, beyond the

554
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: goal of retirement. You know. We talked about this way

555
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: back in the d angel An episode twelve, talked about

556
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: the why behind our money because we knew even way

557
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: back then when we were barely scraping by when it

558
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: came to being legitimate podcasters, but we knew the importance

559
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: of having something beyond our money, something beyond a number

560
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: that we're saving towards. There has to be a reason

561
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: that you're saving towards that amount, whether that be family,

562
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: a certain lifestyle, a type of profession that you want

563
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: to pursue. There's all sorts of things, and it varies

564
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: from person to person, but you have to have something

565
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: beyond just that that number, just beyond that money goal. Yeah,

566
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: we're human, of course, right. We we we need that deeper connection.

567
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: We need like a deeper sense of purpose and mission,

568
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: and a number on on a screen or in a

569
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: spreadsheet just isn't gonna do it for us. You kind

570
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: of have to have something underlying that whole goal of

571
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: fire that makes it worth pursuing or a you're gonna

572
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: achieve it and not be happy, or be you're just

573
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: gonna completely flat out fail and trying to achieve it

574
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: if it isn't coupled with with something that's meaningful behind it, right, Yeah,

575
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: that why behind your money, there's deeper goals. They're so foundational. Yeah,

576
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: so let's wrap it up. Ultimately, if you buy to

577
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: the Fire movement, but don't go too hard, we think

578
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: that your desire to live a frugal life will increase,

579
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: and that's good. Right. I like the idea of aiming high,

580
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: even if it means that there's a potential that you

581
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: miss your target, as long as pursuing fire is done

582
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: with a clearly defined goal and it's done kind of

583
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: in a positive manner. I think, Matt, you and I

584
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: both agree that fire can be pursued in a healthy way,

585
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: but we typically prefer to forsake the acronym, even though

586
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: it has kind of garnered a big following, in order

587
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: to talk about handling money in a balanced an intentional way. Sometimes,

588
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: I think the whole motivation for starting a fire journey

589
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: is because people feel like they aren't living the life

590
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: they want to right now. They believe that by joining

591
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: that movement, it's gonna provide something that they won't be

592
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: able to find elsewhere. And I understand that the desire

593
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 1: for that right fire has this ability to capture our

594
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: imagination and to give us kind of this code to

595
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: live by. But remember too, that balance is better than excess.

596
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: And so whether you're kind of in the movement already,

597
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: I know we have some listeners that are you know,

598
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: hook line and sinker fire people. Whether you're somebody who's

599
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: heart about it, but you don't know a whole about it,

600
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: or whether you're somebody who's listening for who who for

601
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: the first time is like, what is this thing? I

602
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: think it's important for us to talk about this and

603
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: talk about how balanced an intentional approach to our finances

604
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: is really. I mean, that's at the core of what

605
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: this show is about. So, whether you're pursuing fire or not,

606
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: either track you're on, all of us can stand to

607
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: take another look at our finances and just make sure

608
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: that we're we're handling our money in a way that

609
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: aligns with our values. Yeah, that's right, man, And you know, Joe,

610
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: we're talking essentially about fire right, financial independence, retire early.

611
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: We're talking about the pros and cons. But next week

612
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: we're gonna dive more into the nuts and bolts, the

613
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: mechanics of fire, how to go about achieving fire, and

614
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: so you can look forward to that's if you're intrigued,

615
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: if you're interested in fire and you're like, well, how

616
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: do you actually achieve fire? Like what does that look

617
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: like on paper? We're gonna kind of dive more into

618
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: the specifics next week, and Joel, let's go ahead and

619
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: kick it back to the beer. This episode we Enjoyed

620
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: Fruit and Hops on the bottom. I want to read

621
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: what it says here in the can says this is

622
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: a rotationally hopped sour I p A A with strawberry, banana, milk, sugar, yogurt,

623
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: and vanilla extract. I know we have some brewers to

624
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: listen to the show. I have no idea what rotationally

625
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: hot means. So interesting. Yeah, I've never seen that on

626
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: a can or written out before either, I mean neither.

627
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: So if any of our brewer friends brewer listeners want

628
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: to reach out and let me know what that means,

629
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure I could google it. You'll just look it up. Yeah,

630
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: I'll just google it. But yeah, no, this beer Man

631
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: was really interesting. This was a collab beer by still

632
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 1: Water and Hoofhearted. And it's hard enough to laugh every

633
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: time you say that, but this was a sour I

634
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: p A with tons of delicious fruit inside of it,

635
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: and it's official Matt I dig it. I kind of

636
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: like these kitchen sink beers with with so much stuff

637
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: going on and strawberries and banana in there, and I

638
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: feel like I got a little bit of that banana

639
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: runt vibe going on, you know, the banana runs. Oh yeah,

640
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: those are the best ones, man. The worst ones, now

641
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: that the worst ones. If you're raising a communist country,

642
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: banana was the best. Man. I totally remember getting a

643
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: five pound bag a Brouns one time when I was

644
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: a kid. It was probably at like Costco or something

645
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: like that, but your Costco roots run deep. You would

646
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: love to see the bag that I made on the

647
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: side of all the bananas that I didn't want to eat.

648
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: I would have been your best buddy. Yeah, we could

649
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: have been good buddies back then. But yeah, I really

650
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: like this beer. Man. What were your thoughts? Yeah, I

651
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: was a fan immediately. It was tart and fruity kind

652
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: of you know, you taste some of that strawberry, some

653
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: of that banana upfront, and then as that fade you

654
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: kind of pick up on some of those hoppy notes.

655
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: But then what I feel like I noticed the most

656
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: was the aftertaste, and I felt like it reminded me

657
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: of gogurt. You've got kids, but you know, like that

658
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: that feeling you have in your mouth after you've had

659
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: some yogurt, ye specifically like fruited yogurt. There's yogurt in

660
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: this beer. That's what it says. Yeah, Like the best

661
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: way I can describe it is just like that feeling,

662
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's like you

663
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: gotta get something off your tongue. Yeah, so I feel

664
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: like that there's some of that milk, sugar, some of

665
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: that yogurt, like you can you can feel it. It

666
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: adds a more body to this beer. It makes it

667
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: a little more interesting. Is definitely not one I'm going

668
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: to constantly drink, but it's a fun variance on the

669
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: I P A. And I'm glad that you and I

670
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: got to enjoy this one, buddy. Yeah, man, me too.

671
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: This is a great one. So all right, man, that's

672
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: gonna do it for this episode. For anybody who wants

673
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: the show notes for this episode, just go to our

674
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 1: website how to Money dot com. Let's say maybe you're

675
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: listening to this episode, maybe on our website. Let's say

676
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: somebody afforded you the page because they thought you'd be interested.

677
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: We want you to wherever it is that you listen

678
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: to your podcast, go over there and look up how

679
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: It's Money, And it would be great if you subscribe

680
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: to make sure that you don't miss any episodes. And

681
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: also while you're there. If you haven't left us a

682
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: review yet, we would be incredibly thankful if you did

683
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: leave us a review, especially if you listen over on

684
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts. So thanks in advance. All right, buddy, until

685
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: next time, Best friends Out, Best Friends Out,