1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: name is no and they call me Ben. You are 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: you the most important part of the show, which makes 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: it stuff they don't want you to know? So established 8 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: this from from the jump as they say, Uh, I 9 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: am not Catholic. I am not Catholic, nor am I 10 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: so so far as I know, I'm not Catholic. However, 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about something that examine and 12 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: explore something that concerns the Catholic Church. For a long 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: time in this show, we have had, believe it or not, 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: a couple of principles, and one of the principles is 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: that we're never going to uh denigrate someone's personal religious beliefs. 16 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: Believe what you want, you know, it's it's your business, 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: it's a personal thing. Uh. And if you don't believe 18 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: in anything, then of course that's up to you as well. 19 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: So this podcast, despite concerning the Catholic Church, is not 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: in any way about the religious beliefs or the values 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: or the practices of the Church or Christianity in general. Uh, 22 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: and so on and so on. But beliefs, as we 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: have found throughout making the show, are different from facts. Yes, right, Yeah, 24 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: that's a good point, Matt, Yeah, beliefs are different from facts. Uh. 25 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: This is more about facts. This is about an active conspiracy, 26 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: in to be honest with you, a series of numerous conspiracies, 27 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: not theories, not rumors, not scuttle but proven instances of 28 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: horrific crime. So one thing we promise you we are 29 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: not going to be extremely graphic when covering this topic 30 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: because it is an extremely sensitive one. We do want 31 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: to warn you in advance though this episode will contain 32 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: some disturbing content just because of what we're going to 33 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: be talking about. So I guess we should get into it. Um, 34 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Shall we have the facts? Ben? Yes, but of course no, 35 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: Let's start at the very beginning with the Catholic Church. 36 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: You've probably already heard this, ladies and gentlemen. According to 37 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, it's history dates back to the first 38 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: century a d. When Jesus Christ made his disciple Peter 39 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: the rock upon which the church would be founded. All 40 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: the other Christian denominations by a large originate from Catholicism, 41 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: and the Catholic Church has done a lot of good 42 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: in the world. It's reserved immensely valuable knowledge, it is 43 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: at times promoted literacy uh and preserved great works of art. 44 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: But also there are schools involved with the Catholic Church, 45 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: so many charities, so many with all of the different 46 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: organizations that exist within the Catholic Church itself or with 47 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: affiliated or churs to But in the world of Christian 48 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: belief systems, Catholicism is ancient, which the most fair way 49 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: to say it is that there has there's just a 50 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: much larger passage of time here, which means there are 51 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: many more opportunities for something messed up to occur. And 52 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: over the past centuries, Catholicism has been associated with, or 53 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: implicated in, or directly responsible for numerous atrocities. We have 54 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: just a few examples. Yeah, some of those include the Crusades, yes, 55 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: all out or that rages across the globe because of 56 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: differing religious beliefs, different gods. It's one of those things 57 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: that we still see today with some of the Islamic 58 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: terrorist activities and the idea of holy war. You know, 59 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: that's this is a good example from history of that. Um, 60 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: we also have the persecution of heretics. Sure, basically nonbelievers, right, 61 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: and yeah, the it could be nonbelievers, you could believe, 62 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: be a group of people who believe in something different 63 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: that's not official canon. This persecution would also include, of 64 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: course blasphemers, you know, which hunts, inquisitions a postdates, Yes, 65 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: and that kind of persecution wasn't just restricted to heretics, right, 66 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,239 Speaker 1: he also had anti Semitism and um, a good Another 67 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: example of persecution of heretics would be something like the 68 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition, where people were tortured and ultimately killed for 69 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: their beliefs. And you know, we could do it, accrues 70 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: to me. We could do entire episodes on crusades and 71 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: witch hunts in the Spanish Inquisition, or just heretics or 72 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: just heretics heretic thought. One person's heretic is another one's reformer, 73 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, or like starting a new religion. In fact, 74 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: if you guys know the movie The Witch is a 75 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: big fan of It starts with the father patriarch of 76 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: the film being exiled from his community, which is in 77 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: a settlement in the New World or whatever, and it's 78 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: because he takes a different approach to his religious belief 79 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: has never really gone into specifically, but it's enough that 80 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: the higher ups in the church deemed him to be 81 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: a heretic or an impostate, and they exile him and 82 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: his family out into the wilderness. Right and in in 83 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: this time and space, I guess where we are now, 84 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: it may a seem strange. These may seem like relatively 85 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: minor disagreements in dogma or in the details of something. 86 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: But in those days, uh, descent of any sort was. 87 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: It was tremendously controversial. Also in the past, the Catholic 88 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: Church assisted with some horrific colonization, you know, subjugation of 89 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: native peoples throughout the world. Uh. And it is on 90 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: record at least some officials in the Catholic Church aiding 91 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: and abetting Nazis and Fascists. Now before it sounds like 92 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: we're doing some kind of hit piece, because we are 93 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: listing a lot of terrible things that occurred over a 94 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: history of thousands of years. Yeah, you go back to 95 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: the eleventh century when a lot of the crusades were happening, 96 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: with in the sixteenth century. Then you go further further 97 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: back to some of the more heretical stuff that occurred 98 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: the prosecution and then you forward and it happened to 99 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, there's just so much time. And also there's 100 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: so many people involved. So it's just like when we're 101 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: looking at any other large organization. You know. Not, of course, 102 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: not everybody who works for a federal government is a 103 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,559 Speaker 1: bad person. You will hear in the news about bad 104 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: people who get caught doing something criminal or in many 105 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: cases get away with doing something criminal. Uh, same deal 106 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: with the banks, same deal with banks. Not everyone who's 107 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: a teller. You know, people are widely varied, and aside 108 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: from a few very common interests like breathing and eating 109 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: and staying alive, people do very different things, even if 110 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: they're ostensibly on the same team. And the Catholic Church 111 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: at present has many, many, many, many many adherents. According 112 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: to a twenty sixteen study, roughly one to seven two 113 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: billion people identified as Catholic in fourteen. And there are 114 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: how many billion people seven point something billion people on 115 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: the globe right now. Yeah, that numbers about seventeen percent 116 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: of the overall population of the world. And that yeah, 117 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: and the population of the world is still growing. It's 118 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: going to be different by the time. This shows over 119 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot of Catholics seven point four. By the way, 120 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: global got the largest concentration of Catholics in Brazil, Mexico, 121 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: the Philippines, the United States of course that are also 122 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: the wealthiest of the Catholics. It's the wealthiest arm of 123 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: the church um and also Italy, and Italy makes sense 124 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: to be on there. You know, Philippines being on that 125 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: list was surprising to me. Ben. You know, that's an 126 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: interesting story and a lot of people in the West 127 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: aren't too aware of the colonization of the Philippines and 128 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: just how long it lasted in the countries that participated 129 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: in it, but do largely do impart to the Spanish 130 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: occupation and colonization in the Philippines. Uh. It is the 131 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: largest Catholic country in that part of the world. And 132 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: when we talk about the Catholic Church, Okay, we've talked 133 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: about how strong it is in terms of people, in 134 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: terms of people power population, right, they have a lot 135 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: of people, But the Catholic Church also has a lot 136 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: of money dollars euros. There's probably a stash of bend 137 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: Bucks in there somewhere. Uh. Their financial statistics are very, 138 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: very interesting. So, yeah, if you think about the number, 139 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: that number of people donating money every year, perhaps every 140 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: week or just every month, however you do it personally, 141 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: that amount of money going to a church over that 142 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: time span, Holy mackerel, that's uh Scrooge McDuck level of 143 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: wealth right there. Sorry, I'm not trying to I know 144 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: that's silly, but I mean, really, it's hard to fathom 145 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: the amount of money that is cycled through. I don't know. 146 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: I could picture of some you know, high level um 147 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: Catholic clergy swimming around and huge vaults of gold coins. 148 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: I feel like that's not something you would want to do. Well, 149 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's weird. Yet it's it's very dangerous to 150 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: try that. Oh yeah, we thought too much about swimming 151 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: around in a pile of coins, which I would I 152 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: would never do, just because touching that much metal would 153 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: be weird. But um, but we're right at some we 154 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: all we do know that people are ultimately fallible, uh, 155 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: no matter what your position is in the world. So 156 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: there is a widely documented history of very corrupt people 157 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: being church officials. And did one him through money? You 158 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: know what? Honestly, no, I don't know. I'm not gonna 159 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: say definitely not. I'm not going to say I do know, 160 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be as surprised as I wish I 161 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: would be. That's probably the best way to say. It 162 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: scares me. Whenever you're surprised, Ben, really it really means 163 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: something serious going down. Did you see me lose lose 164 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: my mind? We're off air because I found out it 165 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: was National Sandwich Day. Well, you're very you're very passionate 166 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: about sandwiches. A man's gotta have a code. Hey, and 167 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: the Cubs just won the World Series. You guys, that's 168 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: that's surprised to me. It's surprised a lot of people 169 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: that you're you're gambling problem. Well, it's not a problem. 170 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: You're really good at it. Yeah. Ever since our episode 171 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: on Sports Fixing, and as soon as they hit game six, 172 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: I went, oh, you guys, what is going on here? 173 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Then they were like, oh, we gotta go to game seven, 174 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: and all the alarms were going off. I was like, 175 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: I need to get Brian Towey on the phone right 176 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: now and figure out who I need to bet on. Yeah. Yeah, 177 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: You've made some powerful friends and powerful enemies with your 178 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: newfound role as as a gambling Tiker, and the unfortunate 179 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: news that Nolan I have for you, Matt is, no 180 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: matter how successful you become a gambling you will probably 181 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: never have at as much money as the Catholic Church. 182 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: Well that's not that's not what the guy told me, 183 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I'm gonna take his word for 184 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: it for now, but I appreciate it, which is certainly 185 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: something to aspire to, because, as we've discussed already, the 186 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: Catholic Church does have quite a bit of money. We 187 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: found this quote from Wired magazine that Pope Francis is 188 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: not just the spiritual leader of one of the world's 189 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: major religions, he's also the head of what's probably the 190 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: wealthiest institution in the entire world. And that sounds like 191 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: a big claim, but we have to consider again this 192 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: is this is an incin organization. The time span involved 193 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: alone gave it more opportunities to accumulate wealth, and we 194 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: don't actually know how financially powerful this institution is. It's ginormous, 195 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: for sure, but because it's not subject to some of 196 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: the same accounting and disclosure rules that would apply to other, 197 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, other institutions, the best we can do is 198 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: make gues estimates. So our best guests for a look 199 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: at the maybe the annual spending or budget of the 200 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: Catholic Church comes from the economist, and the economist breaks 201 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: it down into several categories. We've got healthcare coming first, 202 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: with nine point six billion dollars reportedly spent by the 203 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: members of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. 204 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: Then we have education. Um, there's a lot of pub 205 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: locally available operating budgets that um, they mind in order 206 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: to get some of these figures. Of the two forty 207 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: four Catholic colleges and universities that were available, UM, they 208 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: added up to a forty eight point eight billion dollars 209 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: in parish disbursements. Then we have charities, which used the 210 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: total annual budget of Catholic Charities USA and that was 211 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,479 Speaker 1: four point seven billion. Other figures included the annual budgets 212 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: of other national religious organizations that are under the direction 213 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church at some level, UM, and that 214 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: added up to eight point five billion. And what were 215 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: some of those who want to mention them specifically, Sure, yeah, 216 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: there's the Knights of Columbus, the Army's excuse me, the 217 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: Arms of various religious orders like Jesuits, Dominic Dominicans, Franciscan's 218 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: Opus Day of course, and then and then there's uh, 219 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: there's another eleven billion from the Center for the Applied 220 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: Research on the Apostle at Georgetown University. And this all 221 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:05,239 Speaker 1: adds up to estimated budget of one and seventy billion 222 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: dollars A hundred and seventy billion dollars. And honestly, ladies 223 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, that's that's a guesta min That's probably not 224 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: the whole picture, just because we don't know. So why 225 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: are we talking about money? Why is this important for 226 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: the purposes of this episode. Well, we discussed before on 227 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: this show that money is the closest thing you can 228 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: get in this world currently to having a superpower, right Ben, 229 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: that's your that's a quote from you. I remember when 230 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: we were we were talking about what superpowers you we 231 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: would all have, and you're just like, all the money 232 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: because then you could do literally anything in this world. 233 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. Uh A wonder with the growth of technology, 234 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: you could eventually just buy superpowers, right Crispers out now, 235 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: So maybe you could make it where when you do 236 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: that cash move, you know, or you make it ready 237 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: up your hands together. Then it actually produced hundred dollar 238 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: bills and they just shoot at people. That'd be pretty sweet. 239 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: That would be great until uh, until it's totally messed 240 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: up the world's currency market, or someone would cut my 241 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: hands off and take them and then just put them 242 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: on a machine that just continually did that. Yes, I 243 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: went to a dark place. But the but the point 244 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: of this is that when you have an organization with 245 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: this kind of power that can be welld for one 246 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: thing or another, having them support or oppose something on 247 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: a global scale matters, and they can be welld weld. Yeah, 248 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: I mean it, guess wielded. I just like the that's good. No, 249 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: it's got gravitas, it does. It sounds like it's strolling 250 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: the strolling the planks in the Knoxford Theater. I've been 251 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: watching too much Westworld, and I've got Ford uh Anthony 252 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: Hopkins character in my head at all times, his syllable Yeah. 253 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: Now we're getting in the weeds here, guys. But it's true. 254 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: Money equals power, and it affords certain individuals that control 255 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: it what's let's call it privileges, shall we say, sure? Yeah, 256 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: having the support or opposition of something Uh, can can 257 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: make a tremendous difference in world affairs. On a side note, 258 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: I know we're in the weeds here, but man, Vatican 259 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: City is weird. Would you guys like to hear some 260 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: fun facts about Vatican City? Yes? Oh? Great, good, because 261 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: because I don't know what I would do if you 262 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: guys said no. Uh. It is the only place in 263 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: the world where the A T M s are in Latin. 264 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: That's pretty neat. Uh. It also has the world's highest 265 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: crime rate, proportionally one point five crimes per citizen. That's 266 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: largely in effect of the small population. These aren't necessarily 267 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: violent crimes. These are like, you know, pickpockets and thefts 268 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: and stuff. But until fairly recently, the age consent in 269 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: Vatican City was technically twelve years old. Hamona what HAMMONA, Yes, 270 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: and it was. It's since been raised to eighteen. Uh. 271 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: That that last fact is not doesn't really qualify as 272 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: a fun fact. But I am glad that they have 273 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: raised their age of consent. Uh. And we know that 274 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: even though we live in an increasingly secular world, many many, 275 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: many people, many of whom are not even Catholic, are 276 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: very protective of the dignity of the Catholic Church and 277 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: especially the dignity of the Pope, which brings us to 278 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: an interesting episode in our own lifetimes. So in October, 279 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: and on the third to be precise, uh, set O'Connor 280 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: performed on Saturday Night Live. It was the Tim Robbins episode. 281 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: I actually remember this. I was a wee boy at 282 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: the time when it happened. But uh, I my parents 283 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: always watched that show and I they would talk to 284 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: me about it. Um. But anyway, she performed war by 285 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: Bob Marley. Uh. She did it alone on stage. He 286 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: did acapella, and during rehearsals she was going to tear 287 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: up a picture of I think a child, like a 288 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: child who had been abused. Essentially, the idea is that 289 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: this child is starving. Um. And there I forget exactly 290 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: everything that was happening around it, but it made sense 291 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: to the producers of Center It Live that she would 292 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: do that, and that was the plan. Well, when they 293 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: went to live, she pulled out a picture of the 294 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: Pope and she said she tore it up and she 295 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: said fight the real enemy. And the producers the audience, uh, 296 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's happening live in downtown New York. Everyone 297 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: was aghast. Yeah, to say the least. Um, I mean, 298 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: everyone was just stunned, essentially. That's a That's what my 299 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: understanding of it was. Because it's not something you do. 300 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: There was a massive backlash people in bonkers in a 301 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: very very bad way. And I can only imagine the 302 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: amount of uh phone calls mail that Saturday Night Live 303 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: received about that and the network that owns them. By 304 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: way of apology, when Joe Pesci hosted Saturday Night Live, 305 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: he had the photograph taped back together, presented it on air, 306 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: wild applause from people, and then uh said, you know 307 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: he would have I can't remember his exact phrase. I don't. 308 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: He said he would grab her by the eyebrows. That's 309 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: what it was. He was. He was acting like he 310 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 1: was gonna grab her by the hair, like pretending by 311 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: the eyebrows. Yeah. Yeah, And uh, Madonna rediscovered her own Catholicism. 312 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: And again, I'm not going to question the sincerity of 313 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: someone's beliefs, but maybe he seem to like a prayer 314 00:20:52,640 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: of video. I mean, she's clearly quite religious. Oh man. Yeah, Uh, 315 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: I've never met Madonna, but Madonna, if you're listening, um, 316 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: come on this show, yes, please, But what ultimately what 317 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: we're saying here is people, we're so upset about this happening, 318 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,959 Speaker 1: so instantly upset? Yes, and why why were they instantly upset? 319 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: And why would she do this? That was the question 320 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: on everyone's mind at the time. And we have an 321 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: answer to that right after a word from our sponsor, 322 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: and we're back with the answer that we have mentioned 323 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: at the top of the show. Uh, sanade O'Connor was 324 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: not just being some sort of precious performance artist. Instead, 325 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: she was remarking, as she said in later interviews, on 326 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: the hushed up abuse occurring in various parts of the 327 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: Catholic Church around the world and various institutions, she herself 328 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: was a victim of abuse. And the Catholic Church, of course, 329 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: for their part, has never officially condoned any abuse in 330 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: its recent history. So you know, of course, in the 331 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: distant past they would condone inquisition trials or torture of 332 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: native peoples and so on, But the modern Catholic Church 333 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: is not you know, is in no way, um pro 334 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: that sort of monstrous stuff. Absolutely not. However, not only 335 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: has there been a proven epidemic of child abuse when 336 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: the within the Catholic Church were we're talking children of 337 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: all ages, primarily boys. But there's also no telling how 338 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: far back this abuse has gone, where it where it originated, 339 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: or to what degree it occurred, or how often it 340 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: occurs today right now as we're making this podcast right 341 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: many cases have been actively covered up or ignored, with 342 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: high RUPs in the church relocating abusive priest rather than 343 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: having them prosecuted or invested investigated or prosecuted in a 344 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: court of law. In the United States, this phenomenon gained 345 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: attention in the mid eighties, and fellow named father Gilbert 346 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: Gothe of Lafayette, Louisiana, pled guilty to abusing at least 347 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: eleven boys over his time in the area. There's a 348 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: piece here from Minnesota Public Radio. It goes into detail 349 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: about this and villainous. I just want to warn you 350 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: before you hear this, ladies and gentlemen. The priest took 351 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: boys on camping trips and invited them for sleepovers in 352 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,959 Speaker 1: the rectory. He claimed old practices for altar boys every 353 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: day at six am and encouraged parents to let their 354 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: boys spend the night. His sexual appetite was uncontrollable. He 355 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: put bars on the windows of a rectory. He kept 356 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: a gun by the side of his bed, and when 357 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: children refused to submit, he threatened to use it. And 358 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: then it goes in detail about what he forced these 359 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: kids to do with him to each other, and how 360 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: he documented it on a polaroid camera, and how this 361 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: went on for more than a decade. He remained in 362 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: the ministry, even when his bishop learned he had abused 363 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: one boy and licked the faces of two others. After 364 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: the second complaint, the bishop transferred him to a small 365 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: church in the isolated town of Henry, Louisiana, And finally 366 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: three boy told his father, Wayne Sagrera, about this. Sagrera 367 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: reported it to the diocese. The bishop sent the father 368 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: away for psychological treatment and offered nine families confidential settlements 369 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: of more than four million dollars. The reason we know 370 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: about this is because one family refused to settle and 371 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: they went public, and then the American public woke up 372 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: to first that you know, close community. Even then the 373 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: rest of the US became more aware of this. Yeah, 374 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: he ended up going getting arged with several cases, got 375 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: a sentence of twenty years. Then he got out in 376 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: nine years. For good behavior. Uh then he went back 377 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: for another case of abuse for a few more years 378 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: than was released. Again. Um, this is an interesting, messed 379 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: up case. If you want to learn more about it, 380 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: feel free. I would not recommend it, but go for it. So. 381 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: Documentation from the time also showed that the church was 382 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: supposedly concerned of a possible quote domino effect occurring, and 383 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: Reverend Thomas Doyle, who was a canon lawyer, wondered how 384 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: far the scandal went just you know, part of the 385 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: question that we're asking today. Um, was this an isolated case? 386 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: Was it more widespread? Eventually he became more and more 387 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: concerned the resulting revelations could in fact bring down the 388 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: Catholic Church in the United States, and he teamed up 389 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: with Father Gothe's defense lawyer of filling In Gray Moton, 390 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: and they created a confidential report and was confidential at 391 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: the time, called the Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman 392 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: Catholic Allergy. It warned that hundreds of priests might be 393 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: abusing children and that the lawsuits and settlements could cost 394 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: the US Catholic Church a billion dollars in ten years. Today, 395 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: this formerly confidential document is available online if you google 396 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: the title, you will find it. So they worked on this, 397 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: they presented it to the UM, to the church authorities, 398 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: and apparently it was ignored. In fact, Doyle believes his 399 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: career was ruined because of his push for the church 400 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: to confront the brewing abuse scandals. So let's talk a 401 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: little bit about the percentage of people that are that 402 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: would be doing this stuff. A survey of the ten 403 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: largest US diocese found two hundred and thirty four priests 404 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: from a total of twenty five thousand, six hundred and 405 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: sixteen in those dioceses have had allegations of sexual abuse 406 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: aid against them in the last fifty years. The report 407 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: doesn't say how many of these were proven versus how 408 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: many were allegations, So we do know a couple of things. 409 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: This means that it's by no means, again, something involving 410 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: every member of the church. Nor is it in any 411 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: way indicating that every clergy member even knew about the situation. Like, 412 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: it's completely possible that people just weren't in in a 413 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: situation where they saw that kind of behavior from a 414 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: clergy member. Um. Yeah, because that's what all like, that 415 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: is a small percentage of the priests, and you know, 416 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: the vast majority of the vast majority, whether it's Christianity, 417 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: whether it's Buddhism. Regardless of the religion, the vast majority 418 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: of people who choose to dedicate their life to religious 419 00:27:51,800 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: contemplation or religious service are obviously kinder people in many 420 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: ways than the average bear, you know what I mean, 421 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: But than the average Barrenstein, Um, I was trying to 422 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: do a Mandela effect joke, and I just don't think 423 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: it work. Now, you know, you did? You did it? 424 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: Is it? Barren ste I don't even know anymore? So. 425 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: The next question, and one that people have spent a 426 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: lot of time exploring, is what what causes this phenomenon? 427 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Because it's real, It's apparently been something that happens in 428 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: multiple countries, multiple situations, multiple places, multiple socioeconomic backgrounds. So 429 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: what what's the cause? Well, according to Laurie Goodstein, who 430 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: wrote for The New York Times, that there are several 431 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: contributing factors, and the first one is that it's just 432 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: a matter of sheer numbers. Catholics makeup about a quarter 433 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: of the US population, like we talked about earlier, through 434 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: the largest single religious denomination that existists. And second, the 435 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: church keeps extensive documentation, meaning they're gonna have or at 436 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: least they're more likely to have some kind of paper 437 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: trail that you can follow. Yeah, and third, good Steam 438 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: believes factors involving the nature of the priesthood itself may 439 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: actually contribute to this abuse epidemic. And within this one, 440 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: you you have to know that priests have this exalted position, 441 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: there is this uh, this thing called Then you might 442 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: have to say this for me, but I'm gonna say 443 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: it in persona CHRISTI. Essentially the argument being that for 444 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: true believers, this is one of the ultimate authority figures, 445 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: this is your direct line to God, essentially allowing for 446 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: the potential for some of these folks to develop a 447 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: bit of a God complex perhaps or abuse that power 448 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: in some formers in terms of seeing themselves as an 449 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: ultimate you know, figure of authority and twisting that in 450 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: a very unhealthy way, which leads us to the next point. 451 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: I think I don't even think it's seeing themselves in 452 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: that way. I think it's knowing that the other person 453 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: sees you in that way. Well, imagine if you're if 454 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: you're a child and there is some religious authority figure 455 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: who wants to make you do something, whether it's whether 456 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: it's some sort of abuse or whether it's something as 457 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: simple as like, I don't know, steal, stealing a zero 458 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: or whatever, and they say, well, you don't want to 459 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: go to hell, do you? Uh, that's my favorite sandwich 460 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: and for good and go to Heaven, et cetera. So 461 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: there's a very there is a very unequal power ratio there, 462 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: or authority ratio, and unfortunately certain um diseased individuals use that. Um. 463 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: Goodstee also points out that there are celibacy requirements and 464 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: that the priesthood is all male, and some of her 465 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: colleagues who have looked into this have cited those two 466 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: things in particular as factors, which I think is understandable 467 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: that that would contribute to something. But you know, we 468 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: also have to note, as she does, that this sort 469 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: of abuse occurs in institutions that have married clergy, and 470 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: it happens in other religions, and it happens in just 471 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: non religious family structures. It's a very very different lifestyle, 472 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, Um, and you're also you are in a 473 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: position of authority in that kind of service, but you're 474 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: also answerable to this gigantic organizational hierarchy. You know what 475 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean. You're very much living within a system. And 476 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: living within a system is not a bad thing. Everybody 477 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: lives in some sort of system. The most anarchist person alive. 478 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: If you're listening right now, you live in an ecosystem 479 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: and like the laws of gravity still govern you. I'm sorry, man, man, No, 480 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: I don't believe it. So there's another thing. So these 481 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: are these are factors that are pretty strong factors, I 482 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: would argue. And I know that good Steam doesn't completely 483 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: agree with all of those, especially when it talks about 484 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: the structure lending itself to it. But we um, we 485 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: do know that regardless of the cause, there have been 486 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: difficulties and prosecuting these events. I think before we get 487 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: into this final wrap up, we should have one more 488 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: quick sponsor break. So, since some of the events come 489 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: to like many years, decades, even after investigators in different 490 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: countries found statute limitations had passed, meaning that cases were 491 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: not prosecutable, someone comes forward in the nineties nineties about 492 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: something that happened in the fifties. UM needs may differ 493 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: by country, but then sometimes the offender has passed away 494 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: or is uh maybe senile or simply untouchable. Yeah, because 495 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about fear. Fear first off, as a child, 496 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: if you're being abused, UM, fear of an organization, fear 497 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: of God even comes into play when we when you're 498 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: dealing with this kind of abuse, and it's a tremendously 499 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: I'm only speaking from you know what I believe it 500 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: is like. But I can imagine there would be one 501 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: of the hardest things ever to do in your entire 502 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: life to come forward and admit that something like this 503 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: has happened to you. Absolutely, And another factor that goes 504 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: here is that the Catholic Church, for its part, has 505 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: made several public statements that it is addressing this phenomenon. 506 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, the United States Conference of 507 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: Catholic Bishops initiated strict new guidelines, or zero tolerance guidelines 508 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: for the protection of children and youth in Catholic institutions 509 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: across the country. Then, in two thousand nine, church officials 510 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: noted that abuse occurs in other religions and institutions and 511 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: indicated that this could be seen as uh some kind 512 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: of disproportionate focus on the Catholic Church itself uh in 513 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 1: instead of looking at it as a whole. In either 514 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: religious organizations or organizations worldwide, right right, and then uh, 515 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: there's something that you talked about earlier off air, met 516 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: the nick Lellan Commission. Yeah, that was that was in Scotland. 517 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: It occurred in Scotland with the Catholic Church there. There 518 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: was a report that was published on August eighteen and 519 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: it was again looking at these like what policies should 520 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church enact to ensure that children are protected. 521 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: That's what it was looking at. However, it didn't go 522 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: into any specifics of abusers or where abuse was occurring, 523 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: or how the Catholic Church responded to it. It it 524 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: was looked at by critics as being I think they 525 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: called it fluffy, a fluffy report, and it just made 526 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: everything you know, it was like a um let's let's 527 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: discuss it. Let's say that there's wrongdoing, but there are 528 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: no real answers here on how to protect children in 529 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: the future. Still, the church has officially declared it will 530 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: take action with the um like against these abusers of 531 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: Pope Francis in September famously in one of his speeches 532 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: saying that all responsible will be held accountable. And you know, 533 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: critics of the the system and the organization and the 534 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: institution are obviously going to say that they feel that is, 535 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of pr spin essentially, but other people, 536 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: especially many many, um many people not just Catholics, but 537 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: secular people, are people from different religions will say, well, 538 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: this is a very very very very very large organization 539 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: and they're hunting a small number of people. But again, 540 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: it is an inarguable fact that more than one time, 541 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: more than one time higher up authorities got reports of 542 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: abuse and just relocated the offender. Yes, and it goes 543 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: all the way up to the Pope. In some instances 544 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: there were newer reports coming out that the previous pope 545 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: Pope rats and Rots or Ratzinger is his actual name, 546 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: but it was Pope benedict Um, that he was aware 547 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: and attempting to to like root out some of these people. 548 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: But also alternate reports that were saying that he may 549 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: have been involved with some of this stuff. And then 550 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: the same with Pope John Paul the second of like 551 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: how much did he know? And you can refine. You 552 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: can find reports on NBC, you can find reports on 553 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: any news organization. Amount to mention the Boston Globe Spotlight, Yes, 554 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: became a movie became a very well regarded film, and 555 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: these investigative journalists uncovered, Um, I believe more than a 556 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty crimes, more than a hundred and thirty 557 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: instances of childhood abuse since the nineteen nineties that were 558 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: essentially covered up quite a way is up the chain. Yeah, yeah, 559 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,479 Speaker 1: and that goes I think those reports came out around 560 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: two thousand two and that led to some resignations in Boston, 561 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: right it did. Uh. You know, that is one example 562 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: of what investigative journalism can do. And that's one thing 563 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: that you can really point to and say, wow, it 564 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: it works when a group of people get together and 565 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: try and figure out bad stuff when it's happening and 566 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: then just open their mouths or write it down on 567 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: a piece of paper. Um, it makes me feel good 568 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 1: about the future of what investigative journalism could be. Well. 569 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: Speaking of superpowers, I mean that is one of the 570 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: very few that we can actually wield as the ability 571 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: to shed light on things that others would maybe rather 572 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: have remained in the dark. Yeah, and we are going 573 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: to wrap up the episode today. Uh. We hope that 574 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: this has been viable information. Again, this is not by 575 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: any means a conspiracy theory. It has tragically been proven true. 576 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 1: And at this point we um, we don't know how 577 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: far back this stuff goes, to what degree various people 578 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: were complicit. And of course, as we've taken pains to 579 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,439 Speaker 1: say several times, we're talking about the bad guys. We're 580 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: not talking about all people who are Catholic or anything 581 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: like that, priests or anyway. And as you guys know, 582 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 1: this is a serious thing. Though it might sound strange 583 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: to some listeners, you guys knew I. I spent a 584 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: lot of time when I was younger hanging out at 585 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: a monastery and uh, it was awesome. Actually. Um. But 586 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: there's one very, very very important thing that we want 587 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: to emphasize for anyone who is listening to this UM 588 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: and has concerns. Although it can always feel like you 589 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: are alone or isolated or trapped, you are not. Uh. 590 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: There are people who have dedicated their lives to helping 591 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: you or a loved one who's in a situation, an 592 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: abusive situation, you know, whether that's something involving the cases 593 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about now or whether that's something like domestic violence. 594 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: You have people you can reach out to, and there's 595 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: a number here for the Child Help National Child Abuse 596 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: Hotline which you can contact. It's an eight hundred number. 597 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: It's one eight hundred four to two four four five three. 598 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: Do not hesitate to to reach out for people to people, 599 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: it's frightening, it's terrifying, it's scary, and it's not your fault. 600 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: And I know that that brings the tone down a 601 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: little bit, but I think we, like the three of 602 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: us who agreed that's important information. And uh, we as 603 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: always really appreciate your time, and we'd like to ask 604 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: you for a favor. If you're inclined to social media 605 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: and interneting, as so many people are, why not drop 606 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: by and give us a visit to like, I subscribe 607 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter or YouTube. You could also, if you're 608 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: feeling charitable, give us a review on our iTunes page 609 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You should note there 610 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: that there is a video feed and an audio feed 611 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: for for this show, and if you put a review, 612 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: make sure you put it on the audio one, as 613 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: we were getting reviews on the video feed for the show. 614 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: All right, um, that could be confusing, and of course 615 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: our best ideas come from you. So if you have 616 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: an idea for something we should cover in the future. 617 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you directly. Our address is 618 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. M hmm