WEBVTT - The Fat Rat 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left That's Podcast. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.560 My guess today is the Fat Rat. There's number one 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.840 gaming music. He's got five and a half million YouTube 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:28.440 prescribers and billions of streams and twenty one thousand Discord members. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.080 Mr Fat Rat, glad to have you here. Thanks for 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.160 having me Bob Okay, you know a lot of people 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.640 listening this are gonna be unfamiliar with you and your music. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.720 So let's start from the beginning. Why the Fat Rat. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.599 What's that name about? It's a typical like online name 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.839 that I used for gaming. Um, it's from my nickname 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.279 in school. So I was really small at school and 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.680 I was doing kung food to defend myself, and then 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.680 first people called me after the after Splinter, which is 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.520 the master of the teenage mutant Ninja chattles. Then day, 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.120 after a week or two, they found this was way 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.760 too friendly as a nickname, so they simply called me 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.440 Rat and German Ratta. Yeah, that name sticked with me 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.360 for years, and so when I started playing online games, 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.520 I simply picked that up and called myself the Fat 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.240 Red and online games for about ten years and then 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.560 when I started putting out my own music. I was 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.960 a music producer a long time before, but when I 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.440 started putting up my own music, just put it on SoundCloud. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.560 I used my online name, which I used in like 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.160 online games, and now I'm still stuck with it. Okay, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.440 it's a good name, but the rat in terms of fat, 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.240 You're not fat in the least. Why the fat rat? 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.160 Just because it sounded good when I chose the online name, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.920 like you know, like you choose an online gaming name, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.440 it's not you don't think about it that later on 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.480 you might have like ten million followers who might like 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.160 ask you about why did you pick the names? Just 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.720 you know, it just sounds good and you just pick it. Okay, 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.840 getting some other basics down, I'm not sure. I'm sure 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.760 to get the pronunciation wrong. You're in good again. Where 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.480 are you in Germany right now? Oh? Yeah, in gutting In. Yeah, 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.040 it's in the very middle of Germany, which is pretty 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:11.840 much in the middle of nowhere because all the big 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.240 cities like Hamburg's in the north, Berlin is the northeast, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.280 and Munix in the south. And yeah, it's a little 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.959 bit like in the s where everything most stuff happens 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.760 on the coats you know, and the very middle there's 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.240 not that much going on. I mean, at least in Germany, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.119 maybe still way more in the U s um. Yeah, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:31.560 and so you have very much in the middle of 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.400 no there, like all the big cities are few hours 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:40.560 drives away. How many people living good? Again? Okay, and 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.560 you grew up there, Yes, I grew up there, and 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.799 my wife also grew up here. And that's the reason 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.720 why we're here because we have all our parents are here. 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.000 So we have a daughter and her grandparents just has 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.720 all the grandparents very close here. That's pretty cool. Okay. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.760 How old are you today? Forty two? Okay, So what 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.480 was the environment in music and life with for you 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:11.760 growing up? It wasn't It wasn't really challenging because my 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.960 mom had a music school and I had some talent 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.360 in music. But I was really quickly the best in 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.320 the music school. Um, because you know, when I was 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.160 like fourteen fifteen years old, whenever there was a concert, 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.600 I was the last act to perform because I was 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.720 the person there who was the longest there, and I 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.080 was like the best player. But then when I moved 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.520 to Munich later on, when I was starting to study, 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.040 I learned that I wasn't half as good as I 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:44.240 thought I was, because then I had some actual competition. Okay, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.400 you know, the average person in America has not been anywhere. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.920 So tell us a little bit more about Germany because 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.200 you spend time in the stage. What's the difference between 0:03:55.280 --> 0:04:02.640 Germany and the States from your viewpoint? It's a really 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.280 good question. It's a really good question. That the funny 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.160 thing is whenever, like the grass always greener on the 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:13.280 other side. Right. Um So, when I moved to Los Angeles, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.200 where I lived for three years, I've realized what was 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.400 it good about Germany? Now when you ask me the question, 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.560 everything that comes to mind is how awesome the U. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.760 S A Is and what are the problems here? Um 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.920 So Germany, please forgive me when I'm like a little 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.280 bit negative. But um what I love about the US 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.320 is that people are way more into doing things and 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.720 acting and lesson to planning everything to death, which, at 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.560 least in the which is probably great when you're in engineering, 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.839 like when you're building planes or you're building big structures 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.600 or whatever. It's great when you have zero tolerance to failure. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.599 But in the entertainment industry you have to do stuff 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.839 and simply try and failure is an option, and that's 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.120 something let's say, failure is an option. I think that's 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.720 a big part of the US. People just do things, 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.400 they try stuff, they move forward. And in Germany everybody 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.159 is always afraid to make a mistake, and people do 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.680 rather nothing than making a mistakes. So I think that's 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.640 a huge difference in the mentality. Okay, from our viewpoint, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:19.440 it appears that Germany, maybe with France, certainly runs the 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:26.120 European Union. What is the mindset of Germans today? You know, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.960 we can talk about I don't want to start labeling 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.120 different countries whatever, but somehow are seen as more lazy, 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:38.640 some is more economic, lee forward, and we think the 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.000 perception in the US is that Germans are very precise 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:48.200 and at the bleeding edge of technology and engineering. That's 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.920 where the BMW's come from, the Mercedes, the Porsche's. You know, 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.720 the average person, if you're a slacker in Germany, can 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.080 you get away with it because you know, or what 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.960 is the general person in Germany? Like yeah, yeah, um, 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.760 so first of all, uh don't be afraid to hit 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:13.880 me with like uh stereotypes, So it's totally no problem. 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.839 So speak freely. Um. Uh, I think you can get 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.239 very pretty good as so Germany. Germans are not about 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.360 hard work. I wouldn't say that, it's more about precision. 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:31.600 I think that's that's a good point, um, because uh yeah, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.760 like I said before, I think it's this being afraid 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.040 of making failure being very very accurate. That's the good 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.599 side of it. The bad side is that it often 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.280 slows down things a lot. Right, So when you want 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.839 to do something in the years, you say, hey, let's 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.039 do this, and everybody's cool, let's try it. And in 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.440 Germany everybody's oh yeah, but what could go wrong. Let's 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.680 let's figure out everything that could go wrong and make 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.560 sure nothing goes wrong. And um, if we're afraid. There's 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.000 actually a very good specific example I can give you 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.039 in the music industry because I'm like, most of my 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.880 business contacts are still in the US. So when I 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.559 for example, when I worked with the management in the US, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.640 we had a call, how we want to do the 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.480 deal right? And he said, Okay, this is how we're 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.680 gonna work, and then we started right. We didn't even 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.320 signed agreement. And this was about like thousands, thousands of 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.119 dollars from the start but when I signed a small 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.160 a capella group in Germany and we wanted to release something, 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.920 they insisted on written agreements that we would send back 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:42.400 via mail, like not email, but physical mail. So otherwise 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:47.440 it's not because otherwise it's not safe, um legally right, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.880 So you have to send like the letter agreements all 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:52.840 of the world. And my business partner in the US 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:54.840 was still involved, so we had to send it from 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:56.640 Germany to the US and then back to Germany and 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.400 then to everybody to sign it. It was like no 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.880 almost no money in all, but they were so scared 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.120 that something could go wrong. And this is I think 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.679 that's a pretty good example how the mentality is different Germans. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.080 Very everything has to be done right. It's like the 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.800 typical image that people are standing at night at the 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.760 green at the red traffic light right the where the 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.560 pedestrians crossed, and its red lights. So they stand for 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.560 a minute and wait till the light turns green and 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.280 there's no car around, nobody's around whatsoever, but they're still 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.280 going to stand at the red light. That's I think 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.040 that that's German. It is okay, not everybody does it, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.000 but that's how people are here. I'm older than you are. 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.559 And I remember when Europe most of the radio stations 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:41.880 were state controlled, so at this point, and certainly electronic music, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.760 many people believe, started in the Midwest of the United States, 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.040 but really took hold in Europe. So the average person 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.560 and it's hard in today's digital era, and you're old 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:57.320 enough to know have seen the transition in Germany? Is 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:02.079 music consumption driven by the radio or other ways or 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.480 has there been a transition in your lifetime? And what 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:09.920 kind of music do people listen to? Honestly, I don't 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.560 even know that much about it because I have my 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.800 very own space. Um I think it's very like big influence. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.960 I think it's still TV. But then there are those 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.840 subcultures like German rap became a big thing in the 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.360 last couple of years, just like you know in the 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.720 U S as well, like the rappers there was like 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.199 huge come back sort of thing after all the E 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.079 d M stuff, and that the same thing happened in Germany. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.080 But I don't even know exactly where that came from 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.600 because I have, like like I said, I have my 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.240 very own almost the bubble where I live in where 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.120 I have like my music world. Um, I listened to 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.160 the radio. HEO sometimes, Um, but I'm not so familiar 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.680 with the audience in Germany. What's important is my audience 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:57.400 is two percent German, It's nine percent is the rest 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.400 of the world. So it's artists wise. I'm not German. 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.320 I mean I live here and I'm from here. But 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.880 like my as an artist, I have as much to 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.400 do with Germany as as I have to do, even 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.720 more a way less to do with Germany than I 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.640 have to do with Vietnam, China, USA, in Mexico. Okay, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.160 when you were growing up, rave culture started to be 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.080 something in the US and the nineties. Was that something 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.079 that was happening in Germany when you were growing up, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.679 and were you a participant? Yes? Absolutely so. We had 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.320 Love Parade in Berlin where they were like over million 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.360 people coming to Berlin to join. The Love Parade, for 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.280 those who don't know, was like trucks with sound systems 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.520 on it and making a huge parade, and the trucks 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.840 were so loud that whenever you was you were like 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.960 somewhat close to one truck, you could only hear that 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:50.400 one truck. Uh yeah, so yeah, And I went to 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.200 a couple of those parades that was. Those were the 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.480 raves back then. It's not not so much of the festival, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:56.880 but it was a lot of those parades and was 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:58.679 a ton of fun. I was like eighteen years old 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.000 at the time, really drunk, and yeah, it was a 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.720 lot of Okay, you call yourself the number one gaming 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:11.600 music artists, what exactly does that mean? Well, the gaming 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:17.360 music is simply the term that helps people to find 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.800 music that's similar to mine. In the very beginning, I 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.760 have people asking me, Hey, what's the like the music, 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.400 what you're making? What is it? I was like, I 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.920 don't know, it's it's not really E d M. You 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:29.760 cannot call it d M. E d M is like 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:34.240 a certain you know, sound, a certain culture and everything. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.160 It's kind of close to that, it's not really that. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.480 But then I stumbled upon gaming music mix tapes on 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.040 YouTube and I found, okay, this is like the kind 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.360 of music that I'm making. And also my music is 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.600 all over those mix tapes, right, They often started with 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.040 my song. They still do. If you bring up gaming 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.480 music mix on YouTube, it's often the first song. It's 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.120 the Fat Rah. Yeah, so that's where I'm okay, cool. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.680 Then that's kind of the niche or the genre that 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.160 describes my music, that simply describes it best in which 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.679 the most functioning note for people to understand kind of 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.720 what it is because it's music. It's not music from 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.160 video games. It's simply music that grew out of the 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.839 video game video game culture. And it's also yeah, it's 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.599 also the term where you can find music that is 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.200 somewhat similar to what I'm doing. Okay, So what is 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.719 different in terms of sound between gaming music and id 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:38.600 um um gaming music? It's kind of more like electronic huts, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.800 not so much made for dancing, right. The gaming music 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.720 always has I mean e d M always has to 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.840 be danceable, right, because you played on festivals, you played 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.400 in clubs. That's what it's made for. And gaming music 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.200 it's more for listening because what people do with it, 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.920 they played in the background, especially when they're playing like 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.400 competitive games like Dota two or League of Lets or 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.640 stuff like that. Okay, As I say, a lot of 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:09.080 people are not that experienced in this world. So let's 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:14.599 talk about music in actual games that people play multiplayer 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.080 online or they buy discs or whatever. Do you license 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.480 your music to those commercial games? Yeah? I do that 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.800 as well, but that's not my primary primary thing that 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.520 I'm doing. That happened because my music became so big 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.520 in the space. So a couple of those big, big 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.960 games reached out to me and said, hey, I want 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.800 to we want to have your music in our games. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.800 Like it's a title song for the actual season. So 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.120 for people who are not in the gaming space, like 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.520 games today, it's not like it's not like a DVD 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.840 that you buy, so you buy the thing one time, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.720 then you played through and then it's over. It's more 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.800 the term games for games as a service, So a 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.880 game is a continuously developing product or space. So it's 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.440 is for example, so those games today they have seasons. 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.040 It's like okay, every uh three months or every six 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.960 months there's like new levels, new characters, and they also 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.240 then have a new title song. So for example, the 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.280 Rocketly for example, licensed my song as a title song 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.160 for the new season, and then I think recently did 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.560 it again, and then Doda too. I made a music 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.440 pack that that was the only time where I made 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.840 music specifically only for a game, which is then not 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.600 I got didn't get paid for it directly, but it's 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.760 an in game item that you can buy. So the 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.680 game itself is for free, and the business model is 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.880 that you can buy stuff in the game. And one 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.560 of the items that you can buy in the game 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.320 is my music pack. So the standard music that you 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.200 that plays when you play the game gets exchanged by 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.160 music that I made, and you pay I don't know, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.600 four dollars to get that, and then I get a 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.040 share of those four dollars. Is that a real business 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:01.320 or is that really small? I ain't my I can't 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.120 talk numbers. So the first month I think was no, 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.960 I'm not I'm sure if I'm numbers, but it's a 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.800 numbers no, no, no, no, I'm not sure if I'm 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.920 allowed from the from valve side, from the g I 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.160 just remembered, uh, nobody. It's a real business. That's a 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.520 real business. I could I could, I could live in 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:23.480 I could live a year from what I made in 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:29.240 the first month. This is just from selling packs within 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:34.960 the video game exactly. There's no license, okay, And like, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.920 what kind of deal if since they're not paying you 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.760 up front and you were talking like four dollars for 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.680 a pack, how many different songs would they get? Would 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.880 they all be yours? And how would the four dollars 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.960 be split. Uh once again, I'm not Harpers, and sure 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.400 if I'm allowed to talk about that about the split. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.600 Um so they actually it's a standard standard deal. Um, 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.000 it's just they have a lot of different creators. Um 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.880 so not everybody can place his or her item in 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.000 the game, but they do this quite a bit. So 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.880 there there's a community or a lot of people who say, hey, 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.880 I want to play stuff in the game or sell 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.920 stuff in within the game, and um, yeah, it's just 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.120 a standard agreement, which and it's it's processed through their 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.840 through Steam. So Steam is like iTunes for video games 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.000 sort of thing. So it's a platform within that you 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.800 can like you can buy games, you can download the games, 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.240 and then you have a community aspect to it and 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.720 all those things and it's done within that platform. So 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.200 one of one of you the statements I opened Steam, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.800 which is actually the platform that I also used when 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.960 I want to buy games. So it's all done within 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.680 that platform. Okay, is Steam because you know, maybe I 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.000 don't have it straight. Is Steam a platform or also 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:03.280 technology or the game games written a specific language that 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:10.320 Steam provides or Steam is just a hosting place. Um no, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:17.600 So tons of different games are um are are used 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.760 in Steam and like um distributed through Steam, so I 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.320 would I would call it like the distribution platform. Yeah, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.640 it's a software that you install, So you say, okay, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.200 I want to download Steam. Then you install the software 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.520 on your PC, PC or your Mac, and then you 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.560 create a user account and then you have like no 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.720 games in your library, and then you buy some games 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.560 or you download some free games. You're like, okay, I 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.720 want to have this game in that game you downloaded, 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.360 and then it keeps the game. So originally I think 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.000 it was developed from Valve. They developed games themselves, so 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.080 Valve owned Steam, but they also developed games, and they 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.040 developed it originally just as an update client, so just 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:58.800 so you do it within the platform and then it 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.960 updates automatically whenever a game update happens. But then they 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.120 started plugging in other games, so other people said, hey, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.439 can we maybe distribute our games through your platform for 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.520 updates and stuff, and then they did this and I 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.760 think by now what's funny is I think Valve is 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.240 the company in the US that has the biggest profit 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:24.240 per UH employee in the in the entire US. I 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.240 think they have liked employees and they have like billions 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:33.119 of profits. Okay. So your music pack which is sold 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.399 on Steam, is it sold directly by Steam or does 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.560 it go through the person who constructed the game that 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.760 you gave the music to for free? Uh no, because 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:50.119 Valve the owners of Steam, they also developed they are 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.520 also the owners of Doda too, So it's one thing. 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.520 It's one company in this case. Let me let me 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.800 just put it in in a different way theoretic, Lie, could 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:07.159 you independently put a music pack on Steam? Uh No? 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:12.600 Not in Dota two. That wasn't That wouldn't be possible. Okay, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:18.159 And you know, uh in many walks of the music 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.640 business other than the major label, certainly indie labels, it's 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.920 a fifty fifty deal. Is that similar here? Is it better? 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:33.040 Is it worse? That's a little worse, but it's close, okay, 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.159 just because for this deep in how often do they 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:43.240 account uh monthly? Monthly? Okay? So for okay, so that 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:50.560 you know that and you feel you're getting an honest accounting, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, okay. Okay, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:55.040 let's go back to this licensing thing. You give the 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.399 music to the game like those two. Do you ever 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:05.080 charge large to license? Yeah? Not? Uh not? Data too, 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.800 because it's this model. Um, but I do a lot 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.040 of are my company, and it's not me directly, but 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.600 my wife who who manages me and runs all my 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.520 business stuff, and my cousin. Actually it's very very family. 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.720 They do a lot of licensing into mobile games, for example, 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.120 that they use it for a year and they pay 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.199 me a yearly fee to use the song. Okay, but 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:35.480 from the beginning of your public life you talk about 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.600 the ability to license. Now, let's use YouTube as a 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:44.080 specific situation. Yes, if you want to use a major tune, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.639 legally you might jump through hoops. But what do we know? 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.480 There's content idea on YouTube such that the creator ultimately 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.280 gets paid. So what exactly is your model? It's just 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.919 you don't have to ask me to record it. But 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.400 I get paid by YouTube, right, don't get paid by YouTube? 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.240 What's going on there on on YouTube? I have a 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.520 different model which is kind of unique, which is that 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.479 I it's free to use on YouTube for everybody. So 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.520 you if you have YouTube channel, you can use my 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.159 music there and monetize the video and keep percent of 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.439 the revenue. I I'm not going to touch any of 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.760 the revenue on YouTube. Wow, So your main avenues of 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.840 revenue or what. Uh, it's my own YouTube channel which 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:35.000 has around a million plays per day. Um, I mean 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:41.320 I'm much the what's the net on a million players? Um? 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:49.160 I have to think I think they think. I think, well, 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.240 it's it's my much. You can't make a month from YouTube? 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.040 From you, that's I think it's that's twenty five k 0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:04.840 around that a month. Yeah, so you have your own 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:10.840 monetized YouTube channel. That's one stream of revenue. Anything else Yeah, 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:17.119 then of course are the d piece right Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.680 still sales and those things. That's the that's by far 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.440 the biggest chunk because so so on youtu, I think 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.080 it's roughly it's roughly one k for a million place 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.159 around that. And on Spotify, my revenue is not that 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:34.400 good because it's very international. So when your only base, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.359 when your place all comes from the U S, you 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.240 make more per play than me, for example, makes a 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.000 lot of place in Vietnam. You just don't make that 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.880 much money in being non per play. Um. But there 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.639 I roughly say, like over all these piece for me, 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:51.200 it's a million places. On Spotify is around like five 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.520 k per month. I know it's not per mount like 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.440 million plays is around five k over all these pe Okay, 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:06.359 so have YouTube and you have the das traditional music streamers, 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:13.680 you have packs on Steam any other your avenues of revenue? 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:19.040 Uh yeah, licensing of course, like licensing into different games. 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.600 So not only not only the packs, but a lot 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:24.879 of mobile games are licensed into a lot of um 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.920 mobile like tires hop, like jumping games and stuff like that. 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.680 Publishing on all the stuff. Um, then what's that? It's 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:41.120 um uh, neighboring rights. Those are the big, the big ones. Okay, 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:48.760 So most of your revenue is from traditional music streaming. Yeah, okay, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:54.560 so is it? How did you let people know that 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.320 not only could they use their music on YouTube without 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:03.240 asking that they could keep the red the new I 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.920 simply told them when I started, And also when I started, 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:10.320 was way more common that people would simply use stuff 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.439