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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing the diminishing returns of frugality.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Joe, Just like you learned at a very

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Speaker 2: young age that there's only so much candy that you

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Speaker 2: can eat before your tummy starts to hurt.

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Speaker 1: I still remember getting a five pound bag of runs

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Speaker 1: from I think it was Sam's fall back in the

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Speaker 1: day he rose. But the one thing some people love

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Speaker 1: the banana runs. The banana Oh see, you picked all

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Speaker 1: the banana runs. I talked about this before you and

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Speaker 1: we would have been a good combo even at a

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Speaker 1: very young age. Yes, no, we So we are talking

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Speaker 1: about frugality, which, in my mind is sort of like

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Speaker 1: this superpower. It's this universal tool that you could apply

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Speaker 1: to almost any area of your life, but it does

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Speaker 1: have its limitations. If you lean into it too hard,

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Speaker 1: you are going to see some of those diminishing returns.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what we're going to talk about today,

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Speaker 2: the proper way to approach this idea of frugality. But man,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was actually real quick before we get

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Speaker 2: started here talking about that. I was thinking about our wives,

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Speaker 2: the ladies they got together took all the kids evidently

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Speaker 2: to Whitewater today. For those who aren't around Atlanta, that's

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Speaker 2: our our local water park, water Slides.

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Speaker 1: I think people around the way TrooLS or at least

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Speaker 1: around the least they know about this water park because

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Speaker 1: it's on like a travel channel Top ten water parks

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Speaker 1: in the country and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Is it really yeah, oh yeah, I haven't been in

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Speaker 2: maybe like back. I feel like it's kind of past

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Speaker 2: its prime a little bit. Yeah, they could spend some

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Speaker 2: money on it and make it a little bit Well,

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Speaker 2: I haven't been back yet.

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Speaker 1: We just got the season passes, but I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to checking it out with the kids because it's been

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Speaker 1: probably twenty five years since I've been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, So the reason I wanted to bring

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Speaker 2: it up was because I think it's worth considering. So

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Speaker 2: it's summer activity season, right, like kids are out of school,

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Speaker 2: and as you go to different theme parks and different

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Speaker 2: you know, like the museum, different things like that, they

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Speaker 2: always have like, hey, you could spend this much money

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Speaker 2: on a single ticket, or you can get the season

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Speaker 2: pass for this much more. And this is just a

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Speaker 2: quick tip for everyone out there, actually do the math

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Speaker 2: and see whether or not it makes sense for you

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Speaker 2: to spend a little bit more now if you're actually

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Speaker 2: going to take advantage of that season pass or like

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Speaker 2: an extended pass, like y'all just got the like through

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Speaker 2: the end of the summer pass or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's like a few months worth for a much

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Speaker 1: cheaper rate. But we're like, all right, if we just honestly,

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Speaker 1: if we go two times, it pays her.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that. So literally it's thirty with six flags,

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Speaker 2: it's thirty five dollars a ticket, or you spend sixty

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Speaker 2: dollars at this extended pass, and so we don't want

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Speaker 2: folks to miss out on that. But the thing is,

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Speaker 2: it's only a deal if you actually take advantage of it.

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Speaker 2: And so if you're geting, you might not want to

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Speaker 2: get like six season passes, like yeah, pick one or

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Speaker 2: two right, and then like using abuse those things and

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Speaker 2: then get something else next. Nore. That's the thing I

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Speaker 2: think that's a good strategy is the ability to focus

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Speaker 2: on Like back when we're living in town, we got

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Speaker 2: that zoom membership hit that pretty NonStop. Back when we

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Speaker 2: had a fern Bank Museum membership, we would do that NonStop.

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Speaker 2: You don't need to do them all, but yeah, focus

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Speaker 2: on one. Maximize the value that you're getting out of that.

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Speaker 2: We were actually we were at Atlanta Potanical Gardens earlier

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Speaker 2: this week, and it was fun to run into a listener.

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Speaker 2: There's a teacher there from Gainesville. Nice. She heard me

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Speaker 2: talking to one of the girls and she says, wait

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Speaker 2: a minute, voice. It's always fun when that happens. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't happen a ton, so it's still kind of this

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Speaker 2: novelty I guess that you and I can enjoy. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: shout out to she was super nice. So cool anyway,

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Speaker 2: But I do think that is a good strategy. Don't

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Speaker 2: spread yourself too thin. Focus on a few season passes

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Speaker 2: or memberships where you are going to be able to

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Speaker 2: maximize that value for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then next year make it the year of

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Speaker 1: the Zoo Potanic Gardens aquarium, like switch it off and

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Speaker 1: then don't forget. Obviously you've never done the aquarium before.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 1: The downside of the aquarium is you have to pay

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Speaker 1: for parking every time, or you just have to like

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Speaker 1: find a free parking place to park and walk quit away.

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Speaker 2: So and hope your car still there?

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Speaker 1: Exactly, Put Natty, where are all the wheels? It's cheap

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Speaker 1: if you get towed, it's not if you don't, right,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I think that's a good tip. And

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Speaker 1: it's always fun to rotate, try something different, you know,

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Speaker 1: not do the same thing here after a year. And

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Speaker 1: don't forget too fourth graders. You get your whole family

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Speaker 1: into national parks for free. So if you have a

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Speaker 1: fourth grader, get that free national park pass and maybe

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Speaker 1: make it the year of like a bunch of National

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Speaker 1: park visits. That's a good way to kind of plan

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Speaker 1: your summer or your year plan.

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Speaker 2: On the summer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I love it. All right, Well, let's mention

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Speaker 1: the beer we're having on this episode, Matt. This one's

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Speaker 1: called The Void of Perspective that became you and me

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Speaker 1: by Burial Brewing.

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Speaker 2: No surprise by Burial. Yeah yet to get with a

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Speaker 2: name like that, you know, this is a Burial.

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Speaker 1: Beer, so ridiculously intense names.

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Speaker 2: We are continuing our tour of amazing IPAs from Burial.

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Speaker 2: We will share our thoughts at the end of this episode,

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to the subject at hand, though, Matt.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the diminishing returns of frugality. How frugality rocks,

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Speaker 1: but it has its limits, right, And even though I'm

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Speaker 1: not super fashion conscious, Matt, I still like clothes, but

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Speaker 1: I buy a a lot less clothing than I used to.

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Speaker 2: I used to hear fashion conscious enough to get by yeah,

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Speaker 2: like nobody's gonna look and but to not get made

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Speaker 2: fun of.

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Speaker 1: I hope at least that by the other dads. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but people probably also don't aspire to dress like me.

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Speaker 1: Let's be let's be honest. And I used to spend

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Speaker 1: more money than I do now on clothing. I used

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Speaker 1: to take the more as merrier approach, right, buying stuff

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Speaker 1: when it was on sale. I just cared about the

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Speaker 1: price tag, not necessarily whether I love the item or

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Speaker 1: whether I was gonna like wear it a lot and so.

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Speaker 1: But it turned out then that I was getting a

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Speaker 1: lot less enjoyment out of the stuff that I owned.

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Speaker 1: With each additional item that I was adding to my closet,

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Speaker 1: I was seeing diminishing returns.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I liked those items less, so I wore them rarely.

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Speaker 1: And it's not it probably didn't fit you all that well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the case for a lot of them, or

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Speaker 1: sometimes that cheaper clothing it becomes misshapen or warped just

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Speaker 1: a lot. So because it's the material quality is not there.

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Speaker 1: The quality's not there. Yeah, And so it's not that

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Speaker 1: buying clothing is bad. It's just that what I was

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Speaker 1: doing and the way I was doing it, it didn't make

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Speaker 1: much sense. And so I reconsidered my approach, and now

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Speaker 1: I find that I like my wardrobe more. Right, I

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Speaker 1: cleaned out my closet and I removed a lot of

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Speaker 1: the items that I didn't really like or wear. I

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Speaker 1: kind of indiscriminately purged a lot of those items that

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Speaker 1: I bought at a deep discount that I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: wear anymore. And now there are fewer items for me

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Speaker 1: to choose from when I'm in my closet, but or

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Speaker 1: just pulling out my drawers. I guess, really, but I

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Speaker 1: like them a whole lot more.

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Speaker 2: And so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess just like they're diminishing returns to each additional

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Speaker 1: item of clothing you on, because really, there are only

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Speaker 1: so many outfits you can wear. I think frugality is

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Speaker 1: kind of similar. I mean, don't get me wrong, You

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Speaker 1: and me we're fans of saving money. We are frugal fellows,

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Speaker 1: we would say, But it's also it's a financial tool

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Speaker 1: that can't fix everything that ails you. We have to

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Speaker 1: know the limitations of frugality so that we can experience

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Speaker 1: the benefits without going too hard in that direction.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, And I actually think that that's the

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Speaker 2: rub because there's a certain subset of personal finance folks

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Speaker 2: out there who think that frugality, that it's the answer

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Speaker 2: to all of life's money problems. Kind of reminds me

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Speaker 2: of did you ever watch my make that Greek wedding

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Speaker 2: long time ago back in the day, super Well, it

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Speaker 2: feels like it's an old movie at this point.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it it's twenty years old now, right, Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But in the movie, like every ailment, it can be

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Speaker 1: cured by some wind decks, whether poison, ivy psoriasis, similarly,

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Speaker 1: some frugality. It's a great thing, but it's only going

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Speaker 1: to get you so far, and after a certain point

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Speaker 1: you are getting less bang for your buck, and you're

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Speaker 1: going to be better served by focusing on some other

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Speaker 1: core tenets of personal finances, you know, going back to

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, about clothes. Not only will you get

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Speaker 1: less enjoyment out of buying more and more clothes, but

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Speaker 1: at a certain point, someone they could actually buy so

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Speaker 1: many clothes that they're just sick of it. It becomes

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Speaker 1: a liability and you know, maybe they're even repulsed by

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Speaker 1: the thought of it. And so our goal today is

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Speaker 1: to certainly highlight the importance of frugality, of being frugal,

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Speaker 1: but to also point out that there are diminishing returns of.

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Speaker 2: Frugality as well. And you know, at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, a healthy embrace of frugality is what's required.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're going to be discussing today. Yeah, exactly. All.

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Speaker 1: We're always trying to strike that healthy middle balance point, Matt.

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Speaker 1: And yet it seems like the loudest voices are preaching extremes,

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Speaker 1: and so we will preach the happy medium continually because

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Speaker 1: that's what we believe, and that's the way we try

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Speaker 1: to live the extreme middle where we like to live exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it's better, of course to be frugal than to

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Speaker 1: be a spend thrift. Yeah, it's a good thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's something we don't want people spending more

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Speaker 1: than they make that's a crucial part of getting your

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Speaker 1: personal finances together is to reduce what you spend and

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Speaker 1: to hopefully increase your income at the same time. The

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Speaker 1: truth is that developing a frugal mindset is going to

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Speaker 1: save you more than just money. Also, right, it lends

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Speaker 1: itself to kind of a general contentedness and attitude of

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Speaker 1: just being happy with where you are. There's something about

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Speaker 1: frugality that is going to do more for you mentally

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Speaker 1: oftentimes than just financially. And when you're less consumption oriented

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Speaker 1: in general, right, that's a good thing. And so even

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Speaker 1: if your income is robust, wanting less and looking for

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Speaker 1: ways to save regularly on the purchases you're making, not

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Speaker 1: giving into the excesses that you could be partaking in

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Speaker 1: just because you have the bank account to back you up.

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Speaker 1: It's you're cultivating something on the inside that I think

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Speaker 1: is healthy and good. You can potentially take that to

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Speaker 1: an extreme, and I think, you know, I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: the majority of how the money listeners probably fall into

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Speaker 1: this camp, but it's something to be aware of because

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Speaker 1: frugality is possible to go overboard, and you.

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Speaker 2: Can take it too far. You can take it too

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Speaker 2: far absolutely, But okay, So one of the reasons we

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Speaker 2: love frugality right and just finding some different ways to

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Speaker 2: cut back is basically because it's a move that virtually

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Speaker 2: everyone out there can make, that they can partake in.

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Speaker 2: You can literally spend less money and start saving more today.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't take much, if any research at all. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't require opening a special account like some of the

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Speaker 2: other money moves that you can make, like investing requires it.

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Speaker 1: You've got to kind of understand the tax implications of

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Speaker 1: opening a rock versus contributing to your four oh one

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Speaker 1: k yeah, match, and the investing options and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, when it comes to you spending less money,

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Speaker 2: it's just the sense of doing something right right, like

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Speaker 2: literally literally it's just like not doing the thing that

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Speaker 2: you want to do because it gives you that, you know,

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Speaker 2: that that short lived high, that sugar rush and frugality

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Speaker 2: like it doesn't require you to go and get a

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Speaker 2: four year degree, you know, like, this is something you

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Speaker 2: can implement today immediately. It's this democratic approach that is

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Speaker 2: available to everyone out there. And you know, we talk

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Speaker 2: about all sorts of ways to save money here on

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Speaker 2: the show. It makes me think of an episode we

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Speaker 2: did seven seven ways to save money this week. We'll

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Speaker 2: link to that one in our show.

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Speaker 1: Not it's a bunch of practical things that people could

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Speaker 1: do literally, like seven, while we did seven was one

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Speaker 1: thing per personally, Yeah, for a week, and like it,

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Speaker 1: you'd be amazed at how much money you could save

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Speaker 1: in just a week.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, But I mean literally even beyond that,

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Speaker 2: the simplest way to save money is just it truly

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Speaker 2: is the absence of taking action. It's avoiding taking action

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Speaker 2: by not spending your dollars. But there are things that

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Speaker 2: you could do literally today that is going to allow

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Speaker 2: you to save yourself money, not only immediately, but just

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Speaker 2: on an ongoing basis. When it comes to some of

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Speaker 2: these recurring bills that you can eliminate from your life,

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Speaker 2: or maybe not eliminate, but even reduce significantly, that's going

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Speaker 2: to have a big impact on your bottom line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, finding ways to cut back and be frugal on

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Speaker 1: expenses that you incur every single month, that's going to

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Speaker 1: be even more powerful, right than just a one time expense.

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Speaker 1: Got a multiplier, yeah, exactly. And frugality is a principle

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Speaker 1: that we can apply to virtually every expense in our lives.

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Speaker 1: We can always ask the question, is there a way

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Speaker 1: to do this activity, to buy this thing, or to

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Speaker 1: make this happen for less money than I was otherwise

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Speaker 1: going to spend. I actually love that exercise.

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Speaker 2: Personally, Right, I was gonna say, I feel like there's

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Speaker 2: no other question that is like imprinted on the back

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Speaker 2: of your eyelids, that question. It's like, cool, can we

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Speaker 2: do it for cheaper? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: No, And that is kind of how my mind works.

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Speaker 1: So I am. I would say I'm actually like a

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Speaker 1: recovering extreme frugilite, right. I think for some years I

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Speaker 1: was too heavy in that direction, and so part of

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Speaker 1: this episode is really me talking about what I've learned

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent, like you and I have both

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Speaker 1: learned to this, right. But I think from personal experience,

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Speaker 1: I used to be too frugal, and I've found that

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Speaker 1: there were some limitations, there were some diminishing returns to

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Speaker 1: how frugal I became. So but I do think that's

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Speaker 1: an important question for us to ask, like is there

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Speaker 1: a way that we can do something for less money?

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Speaker 1: And it's it's always helpful to at least ask the

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Speaker 1: question to see whether you can cut back in one

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Speaker 1: way or another, and we're not all going to come

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Speaker 1: to the same conclusions about where we decide to cut

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Speaker 1: or reduce our expenses.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of Matt. We just talked about

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Speaker 1: cutting your hair at home. Some people will say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous and there's no way I'm going to do that.

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Speaker 1: I take great pride in my appearance or something like that, right,

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Speaker 1: And and other people will say, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about that. A twenty dollars pair of

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Speaker 1: clippers and thirty minutes of my time on a Saturday afternoon,

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Speaker 1: and boom, I'm saving myself twenty five bucks a pop

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Speaker 1: in perpetuity.

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Speaker 2: They're thrilled, that's a recurring expense. Well, I guess unless

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Speaker 2: you go bald, Yeah, this is a recurring expense. This

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Speaker 2: is something that is going to pay dividends literally forever, right, right.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of people but just

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Speaker 1: asking the question is helpful. It's a helpful, frugal response,

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Speaker 1: even though you might not necessarily make the same choice

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Speaker 1: as Matt or I or as some of your fellow

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Speaker 1: How of Money listeners. That's okay, but that question is

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Speaker 1: so important. It's so powerful, I think, the ability to

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Speaker 1: be creative and to consider the many different ways that

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Speaker 1: you could save money. It's one of the factors that

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Speaker 1: makes frugality such a major superpower in your personal finance.

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Speaker 2: Arsenal. Yeah. Yeah, it's endlessly customizable. And that's what's so

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Speaker 2: great about it too, is you can take it and

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Speaker 2: you can apply it to not only the different expenses

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Speaker 2: that you have in your life, but the different expenses

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Speaker 2: that you want to apply it to. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to apply it to everything, but it's worth considering and

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Speaker 2: seeing how much you could save because I will say,

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Speaker 2: if you're able to reduce and you know, be frugal

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Speaker 2: and reduce the expenses of maybe some bigger ticket items

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Speaker 2: in your life, well you're going to see there's going

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Speaker 2: to be a bigger return on your investment in that way.

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Speaker 2: Right If you are able to be frugal when it

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Speaker 2: comes to housing and transportation, healthcare, education, some of these

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Speaker 2: large take items, you're going to see an outsized return

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Speaker 2: on being frugal in those ways. But if you don't

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Speaker 2: want to go that route and instead you want to

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Speaker 2: just kind of cut back in lots of other small ways, well,

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Speaker 2: that's totally fine too. It is totally up to you

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Speaker 2: as an individual.

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Speaker 1: It's like, choose your own adventure, yes, and and some

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Speaker 1: people say, you know what, my own adventure includes a

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Speaker 1: luxury vehicle that's one or two years old, like, and

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Speaker 1: that's totally that's fine. That's not what Matt and I

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Speaker 1: sign up for. That's not how we roll. But we

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Speaker 1: also realize that it's your prerogative, right, and if you

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Speaker 1: want to live a life where you drive an nicer car,

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Speaker 1: but you're able to cut back in all these other

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Speaker 1: areas in order to ensure that you're still able to

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Speaker 1: save and invest right while at the same time driving

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Speaker 1: that nicer ride, that's that's really it's your choice and

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Speaker 1: it's all good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So okay, So going back to you mentioned

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Speaker 2: the haircut example, which I love the multiplier impact, right,

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Speaker 2: because like, that's what's so great about fugality is because

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Speaker 2: it not only allows you to begin saving and investing

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Speaker 2: more money now, but just by maintaining a frugal lifestyle

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Speaker 2: into retirement, it effectively means that you you need to

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Speaker 2: sit aside less money in order to actually become financially independent.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we refer to this as like a double edged sword,

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Speaker 2: but really, if you think about it, it's more of

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Speaker 2: like a triple edged sword because it's that possible. Does

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Speaker 2: that then become like like a three dimension or something

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Speaker 2: like that. But like frugality now, like that means spending

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Speaker 2: less and then being able to save more in the

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Speaker 2: near term, right, Like that's essentially typically the double edged sword,

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Speaker 2: but it also means more years of financial freedom over

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Speaker 2: the long haul, because that's an expense that you no

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Speaker 2: longer also have to prepare for off in the future.

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Speaker 2: So it is helpful in the here now, but then

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Speaker 2: it also allows you to spend less money in retirement,

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Speaker 2: which is a massive win as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that makes me think. Earlier this year, there

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Speaker 1: was an economist, James Choy. I think he's from Yale

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Speaker 1: or something like that maybe and some really smart place.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. He's much smarter than we are, like

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Speaker 2: much more well trained. But that means he's not hanging

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Speaker 2: out here with us having amazing craft beers. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He's short sighted in that fact, But like he was

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Speaker 1: arguing in his study, based on a bunch of data

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Speaker 1: that he said that that we should all basically seek

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Speaker 1: to spend a higher percentage of our income in our

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Speaker 1: youth in relation to what we're making, and then a

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Speaker 1: smaller percentage in our later years. He's basically making an

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Speaker 1: argument that we should be smoothing out our consumption.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the term, yeah to is and assumption smoothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should be a little more willing to

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Speaker 1: maybe even take on some debt in our earlier years

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Speaker 1: because we're always going to make more money, right and

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Speaker 1: be able to pay that debt off, and we just

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Speaker 1: don't want to deprive ourselves too much when we're.

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Speaker 2: In our early twenties.

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Speaker 1: But one of the problems with his argument is that

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Speaker 1: you'd be fast tracking your lifestyle inflation to a higher

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Speaker 1: level than what you and I would recommend in those

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Speaker 1: early years, and then you're allowed and actually supposed to

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Speaker 1: keep that consumption level basically the same throughout the decades,

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Speaker 1: So very little lifestyle inflation because you're just smoothing out

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Speaker 1: that consumption across a bunch of years. And it sounds

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Speaker 1: okay in theory, Like, I get why he proposes something

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Speaker 1: like this.

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Speaker 2: On paper, This is like totally an academic way to

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Speaker 2: think about things.

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Speaker 1: Yes, if you're not taking into account human psychology, right,

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Speaker 1: which is that people actually do right exactly, and so

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Speaker 1: it sounds good in theory, but in practice this is

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Speaker 1: much more difficult to pull off for a lot of folks,

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Speaker 1: and so embracing frugality early on then hanging on to

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Speaker 1: it at least keeping some of those frugal habits around,

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Speaker 1: that's going to lead to better outcomes for most people.

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Speaker 1: The earlier you develop some of those frugal habits, the

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Speaker 1: more inclined you're going to be to keep them in

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Speaker 1: your life for years to come. If you kind of

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Speaker 1: start off rejecting frugality out of hand completely, then and

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Speaker 1: then then you try to like become frugal in your

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Speaker 1: late thirties early forties sort of thing, it's gonna be tougher.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a big hill of climb. It sounds

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Speaker 1: so tough, right, yeah, because again I get it in theory. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So it makes me think of, like we've talked recently

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Speaker 1: about putting the toothpaste back in the tube, how difficult

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Speaker 1: that can be, and specifically we're talking about it in

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Speaker 1: regards to electric doors on a van. How when you've

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Speaker 1: got kids, it's a very nice thing to have.

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Speaker 2: It's a luxury that I am willing to spend on.

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Speaker 2: And once you experience that, to go back to, you know,

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Speaker 2: manually sliding doors like that's it's it's it's just difficult.

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Speaker 1: I've never experienced it. It'd be different exactly, Yeah, were

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Speaker 1: you to never have experience. I think it's just natural

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Speaker 1: to as you get older to want to experience luxuries

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Speaker 1: in life and different niceties. Right, it's easy to stay

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Speaker 1: at a hostile when you're twenty one.

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Speaker 2: It's harder to do that, yeah, when you're forty years old, exactly,

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Speaker 2: And so the same thing. I think it's a natural

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Speaker 2: progression that it's just unnecessary to fight when you don't

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Speaker 2: have to write. So just basically don't allow yourself to

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Speaker 2: have some of those luxuries early on, but then allow

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Speaker 2: yourself over time, as you do see your net worth increase,

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Speaker 2: to then start sprinkling in some of those luxuries. I

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Speaker 2: think that's the biggest argument. I guess my biggest beef

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Speaker 2: with the consumption smoothing argument by pulling some of that

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Speaker 2: consumption into your life earlier on, is that's that should

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Speaker 2: be exactly when you have the ability not only to

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Speaker 2: hustle and make more money, but to also put up

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Speaker 2: with other inconveniences like sleeping on someone's couch while you're traveling.

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Speaker 1: Let's be honest, you're also really hoping for the best

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Speaker 1: or predicting that everything's going to stay the same exactly.

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00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 1: And I've personally personally gone through the experience where of

432
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, where my parents they were told, okay, well,

433
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 1: by by house, it's a little more expensive than you

434
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: can afford because you're you're clearly going to get raises,

435
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,360
Speaker 1: like your income's going to go up, and pretty soon

436
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,719
Speaker 1: it'll feel like not a big deal that mortgage, right

437
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: that that mortgage, It feels like a stretch right now,

438
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: You'll grow into it, right and then guess what, Dad

439
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: loses his job.

440
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:25,479
Speaker 2: Boom.

441
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 1: It just changes the whole, you know, financial trajectory of

442
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 1: their future. And so yeah, you're you're also that consumption

443
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: smoothing is assuming and predicting really that all everything else

444
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 1: stays the same, your income continues to go up, and

445
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,239
Speaker 1: that at some point you have more wiggle room to

446
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: make some of those changes. But we're also not promised that,

447
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 1: And so that's where frugality can be helpful.

448
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 2: It's where it comes to the rescue. Yeah essentially. Well okay,

449
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 2: so honestly, like up until this point, folks are thinking,

450
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I thought this was the diminishing returns

451
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 2: of frugality and all things to say, it's like singing

452
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: the praises of frugality. But yes, if you lean into

453
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 2: it too far, too hard, it's actually going to come back,

454
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: and we think it'll bite you in the butt. So

455
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about some of the downsides to

456
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 2: frugality and we'll get to all of that right after this.

457
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 2: All right, we're back and Matt come to start frugality bashing.

458
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 2: Are you ready for this to kick its butt? Let's

459
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 2: do it.

460
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: Let's take freugality to task. No, I mean, of course,

461
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: like we we just sung its praises frugality. Flexing your

462
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: frugality muscle is is such an important thing, and we

463
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 1: don't want you to forget about it or or not

464
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 1: tap that tool that's in your personal finance arsenal. But

465
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: the truth is, there's only so much you can do

466
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: to tighten your belt, right, and the more you tighten,

467
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: the less you are able to breathe. If you like,

468
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,360
Speaker 1: in a little situation where you continue to tighten your belt.

469
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: At some point you cut off your oxygen flow. At

470
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: some point you lose your pass feeling in your legs exactly.

471
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: So it's just it's just not good. Right, there's at

472
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: some point you've just gone too far. And the same

473
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: thing is true of frugality, right, you can't cut anymore

474
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: past a certain point. It's tough to continue living a

475
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: bare bones existence forever. And changing where you shop for groceries,

476
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: I would say that's like a smart version of frugal, right,

477
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 1: whether you're going to Winco or all the or legal

478
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: like what Trader Joe's is another really good one. Like

479
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: wherever you're going to shop for groceries, maybe making that

480
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: one switch from Whole Foods or I don't know, what

481
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: are the other really expensive grocery stores that we don't

482
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: go to now, Yeah, wherever you're shopping that's way more expensive.

483
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 2: I don't even know. We've always something that, right, we prioritize, but.

484
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: Going from one of those, just making that one switch

485
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: is smart frugal. But here's the example. Maybe that would

486
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 1: be the opposite of that, going ridiculous frugal or too

487
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: frugal only eating rice beans and ramen. Right, that that

488
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: would be frugiality.

489
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 2: Run amuck, which is fine for a short period of time,

490
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: like in particular if I mean, I do think if

491
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: you're getting out of debt and that's an important goal

492
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: for you, then cutting back in all the different ways

493
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: is important. But when it's this indefinite sort of suffering

494
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 2: and you're just grinding out that frugality, that's when it

495
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 2: feels like it's not something you're able to sustain. Although

496
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: if you're talking about the fancy ramen, I mean I

497
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 2: spend top dollar to go to those nicer ramen shops.

498
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I guess it's just a cheap top ramen,

499
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: right that. Yeah, probably can't live on for too long.

500
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 2: But you break into bricks, yeah, and eat without cooking

501
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: it and sprinkle the seasoning in the back. You've done that, right. Yeah.

502
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: It's nice every once in a long while, but you

503
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: don't want to make that your regular habit.

504
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: When you're just loving it, when Emily's gone for the weekend,

505
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: you're just like, I'm just going to break this off

506
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 2: and eat it.

507
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: Occasionally I've done it, but I try to talk about it.

508
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: It's been a minute.

509
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: But there's like there's this clear line in the sand

510
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: where frugality provides diminishing returns and if we go too far,

511
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: we're likely to miss out on some really important life stuff,

512
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 1: or to rebel against frugality altogether, really right, resuming our

513
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 1: consumption heavy ways.

514
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 2: I think if you, if you go too.

515
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: Far down the frugality rabbit hole, at some point, your

516
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: body might like reject it wholesale because you've just gone

517
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: You've gone so hard and you're just like this sucks,

518
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: this is no fun, and you might just revolt going

519
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: back to your your spendthrift ways because frugality maybe didn't

520
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: work out for you, but it's probably because you went

521
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: too hard, too fast down that.

522
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: Path, yeah, and you just end up throwing in the towel. Yeah, Okay.

523
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: So I think an unhealthy approach to frugality is when

524
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: you don't have the right information and knowledge on hand, right,

525
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: Because in that case, I think frugality can then just

526
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 2: be this default behavior in order to be quote unquote

527
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: safe with your money. Right, Like, in this case, frugality,

528
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: it might be based in fear rather than just the

529
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: cold logical facts, like rather than just like the mathematical

530
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: understanding that you might need to cut back in order

531
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 2: to save up enough for a down payment on that

532
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: first house. And I think some of that might stem

533
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: from perhaps childhood experiences with money. Jill, you kind of

534
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 2: already mentioned a story from your past. Maybe someone grew

535
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: up and they were just told often that, hey, we

536
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: just can't afford to do that, and so that's just

537
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: like it was a script, right, It's something that was

538
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: replayed anytime there was something that you wanted, and.

539
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: That becomes your knee jerk reaction. Then it's like, I

540
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: can't afford that. That's how you view things. That's what

541
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: you were told so often when you're growing.

542
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: Up, and you either adopt that or I think sometimes

543
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: too you can completely It's like you were saying, you

544
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: reject it altogether, and you could end up on the

545
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: other side of the spectrum. But I think it could

546
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: also just be a hang up that someone may have

547
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 2: developed in even an early adulthood, maybe with like the

548
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 2: first job that you scored, maybe it offered you a

549
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: meager salary, Maybe that was an impressiable time in your life.

550
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: But either way, making money decisions based on fear, it's

551
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: just unhealthy. And honestly, we've been talking about this a

552
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: good bit recently, But we want folks to do some

553
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: internal digging. We want you to ask the question, are

554
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: you being overly frugal because you're afraid? Because you are

555
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: basing your decisions, maybe not even knowingly, maybe it's just

556
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: in your subconscious but based on how it is that

557
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: you feel towards money rather than what the reality of

558
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: the numbers in your SPA sheets what it actually shows.

559
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've been guilty this a lot. That just

560
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: like kind of being overly frugal because I was fearful.

561
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: And the truth is, when you map out the worst

562
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: case possible scenarios, typically for most people, they're not nearly

563
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: as bad as you think they are. I was talking

564
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: to my mom about that the other day. She literally

565
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: just retired last week, so happy for congrats mom, And

566
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: I was like, are you pumped?

567
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: Are you excited?

568
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: And she said, well, I'm more nervous, And she's just

569
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: nervous about the money side of things. And I get

570
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: that the paycheck stopped coming, and it makes sense like

571
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: I would probably be nervous too, And because of that,

572
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: it's it taints the relationship with money too, which is

573
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: which thinks because I think spending money can be a

574
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: joyful thing if we allow it to.

575
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: Be exactly Yeah, Okay, so I think if you're obsessed

576
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: with maybe you know, living as frugally as possible, I

577
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: think you're also going to be less focused on some

578
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: more powerful personal finance levers like growing your income. And

579
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: of course this isn't applicable to those who have just retired,

580
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: but for everyone else out there. Like, the reason I

581
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: say that I think it's a more powerful lever is

582
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: because unlike spending less, where there's only so far that

583
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: you can cut back, right, like you just talked about

584
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: how there's only so much tightening up the bell that

585
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: you can do, there's the possibility of almost no limit

586
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: to earning more money. And we don't preach like a

587
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: Tony Robbins esque message here, there certainly is power and

588
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 2: visualizing something we get that you can't just like manifest

589
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: a fatter paycheck. But that being said, it is possible

590
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: to have like essentially what we're gonna call frugal tunnel vision,

591
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: right where you're only focused on the different ways that

592
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 2: you can cut back, and you are missing out on

593
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 2: some of these other levers that can dramatically in some

594
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: cases increase the health of your personal finances. Frugality is

595
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 2: most definitely a tool, but so is increasing your skills

596
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 2: to move up the career ladder or negotiating for more pay.

597
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: We don't want you to neglect these other ways that

598
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: you can reach your financial goals, like making more money.

599
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: If you're so minded. I think that's what happens to

600
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: ultrafrugal folks is they're so concerned about pinching pennies that

601
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: maybe they're missing out on some of those thirty thousand

602
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: foot changes that they can make exactly.

603
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: They're just so in the weeds and they.

604
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: Can have a bigger impact.

605
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: They've got that scarcity mindset versus what the abundance mindset.

606
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, And.

607
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: I think lots of times it feels great to save

608
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: ten dollars extra on a pair of shoes or something

609
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: like that, but you're maybe saving pennies here, but you're

610
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: missing out on dollars over there.

611
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: And that is.

612
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: Probably the biggest potential downfall for anybody who's overly focused

613
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: on frugality. And we've talked about spending less, matt and

614
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: earning more, but there's something else that you need to

615
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: do with your money if you want to grow it

616
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: for your future. That's to invest it, right. And one

617
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: of the downsides to becoming overly focused on cutting spending

618
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: and bulking up your savings is that you might be

619
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: less inclined to invest your money. And this is another

620
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: thing that people who are too frugally minded run into,

621
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: I think regularly. Right, they run the risk of adopting

622
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: a horder like mentality when it comes to their money.

623
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: So I think when you're so focused on protecting your

624
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: money that you keep it locked up in a super

625
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: safe savings account, risking none of what you've been able

626
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: to save, well, that can have some downsides too, Right,

627
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: having some money liquid is important, it's necessary. But what

628
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: happens when you're so frugal that you just avoid investing

629
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: altogether because you've seen downswings in the market. And guess

630
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: what that frightens you. And so you say, you know what,

631
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stick with the safe plan, which is just

632
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: to keep my money locked up in a savings account. Well,

633
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: you're doing better than you were for the past fifteen

634
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: years right now, which is good, But your money isn't

635
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: growing at the rate that it needs to be, right,

636
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: because inflation slowly erodes the power of those dollars over time. So, yeah,

637
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: be frugal, prioritize savings, but don't neglect to invest for

638
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: decades down the road too. That's what you need to

639
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: be doing with those dollars. And I just, yeah, I've

640
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: seen too many people who major in frugality minor in

641
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: some of these other things that move the needle in

642
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: a big way when it comes to Yeah, they're overall

643
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: net worth and their ability to reach financial independence.

644
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you're too focused on forget as well, Like,

645
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: one of the ways that you're going to see diminishing

646
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: returns with frugality is that you're going to be less

647
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: likely to invest in yourself. And so whether that's getting

648
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: a degree that can broaden your career prospects leading to

649
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: the ability to earn more money like we just talked about,

650
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: or even just personal experiences that are going to enrich

651
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: your life. I think having just a two frugal mindset

652
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: can cause you to avoid parting with money, even if

653
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: it's ensuring that more money is going to come your

654
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: way in the future, because you're so focused on the

655
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: here and now, you can't take that long view granted.

656
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: The way that Americans take on college debt. It's gotten

657
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: seriously out of control. We want folks to keep their

658
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: college debt to a minimum, but don't neglect investing in yourself,

659
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: and there's ways that you can do it without spending

660
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: a ton of money. Thrusting money into your personal development

661
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: I think will result in pretty epic financial but also

662
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: just non monetary results over the years as well. I

663
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: don't want to like down the road and when I

664
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: think about myself in five ten years, I don't want

665
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: to be the same person that I want to. You know,

666
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: who I am now, with just maybe a little bit

667
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: more money on hand, I want to be.

668
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: I don't want you to be the same person in

669
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: the I won't be. Please change dramatically quickly, Okay, No,

670
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Well, yeah, I think you're right, And

671
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to be to be so frugal

672
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: that you forget about, yeah, all those other things that

673
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: make life awesome. Right, And sometimes that can be just

674
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: in a personal development sense. It's not choosing not to

675
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: go to that conference because it costs too much money,

676
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: even though the connections you might make could far outway

677
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: from a personal and from a monetary perspective the costs

678
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: that you threw into going on that trip. But the

679
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: same thing can be said of just like personal relationships

680
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: and stuff like that too, and life experiences as you

681
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: can have with the people that you love. I think

682
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: you might be tempted to forego a destination wedding or

683
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: or potentially avoid taking a family trip that could have

684
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: produced would have produced incredible memories for you. And the

685
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: ultra frugal person says, yeah, I don't know. I need

686
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: to pad my savings a little bit more and they

687
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: can become and I speak from personal experience, not trying

688
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: to call anybody out, they can become a basket case

689
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: on the topic of money that they neglect a funnel

690
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: money into the areas of life that matter a whole lot.

691
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: And I feel like I have speaking of changing, right,

692
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: I have changed so much even since we started this podcast.

693
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: But I used to be more shortsighted letting dollars and

694
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: since rule more of the decisions in my life. And

695
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: I think frugality brought me a long way in terms

696
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: of personal finance progress, but it had its limits, and

697
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: I had to realize the limits that frugality imposed on

698
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: my life because it was preventing me from achieving and

699
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: enjoying a whole lot, a whole lot of other things

700
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: where nothing that cost me a ton of money even, right,

701
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: It's not like it prevented me from driving a Lambeau.

702
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah it does, because that's just a ridiculous expense. But

703
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of things that I was missing out

704
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: on that really, in the grand scheme of things didn't

705
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: cost a ton but provided really accrue to me a

706
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: whole lot of like joy, happiness, meaning Right, And so

707
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: I just think I'll say.

708
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: You look much more joyful and meaningful, much more robust

709
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: human being today than you were a first started. I

710
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: hope so well. And you, you know, you were just

711
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: kind of talking about you said something about relationships and

712
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: maybe the impact that it could have there. It is

713
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: hard to sustain this a lifestyle of extreme frugality and

714
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: still have friends. Right, You're going to find yourself saying

715
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: no to things that you know you really could afford

716
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: to do, all because you're just too focused on building

717
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: up that massive nest egg. That is when frugality morson

718
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: to being cheap. And you know, it's one of the

719
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: ways that we do divine being cheap when it negatively

720
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: impacts those around you, And so in this in this way,

721
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: we want you to look outside of yourself and to

722
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: look to those around you and how your tendencies, or

723
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: maybe your tendency to not spend, might be negatively impacting

724
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: the relationships of not only those in your family, but

725
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: your friends as well.

726
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: And let's be honest, it's kind of a tough tightrope

727
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: to walk, right. We've had a listener question I still remember.

728
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't remember what the listener's name was, but this

729
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: was maybe a few months ago, and she talked about, well, man,

730
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: my family wants to go on six vacations this year,

731
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: and it's pretty expensive.

732
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: Because getting kind of spendy.

733
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, why I prioritize family time but also prioritize my

734
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: finances simultaneously. And I get that it's a tough line

735
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: to walk, but it's one that we really have to

736
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: wrestle with. And if we're overly frugal, we'll miss out

737
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: on some really important moments. But if we're too uncautious, right,

738
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: we might go in the other direction and spend money

739
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: that we don't have, which would not be good either.

740
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: So it's I think the fact as long as you

741
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: are thinking about it. Whether you come down on this

742
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: side or that side, that's totally up to you. It's

743
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: just that we don't want you to arrive at one

744
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: of those destinations without having thought about it. I think

745
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: that's the risk that you run when it comes to

746
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: potentially damaging relationships, right Because if you are, say, giving

747
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: up the ability to get to know your family a

748
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: little bit better because you're opting out of a cruise,

749
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: but that means that you're going to be able to

750
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: save up some more money for that down payment, I

751
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: think that's okay to make. Like, there's always going to

752
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: be trade offs in life, right, Like, there are sacrifices

753
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: that you make, as long as you are making those

754
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: sacrifices consciously and intentionally, Yeah, for sure.

755
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: And I just want to mention one more thing where

756
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: I feel like frugality can cause us to maybe be

757
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: too myopic, and that is when we don't value our

758
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: time enough. This is another challenge that ridiculously frugal folks face.

759
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: They might not believe that in their head that their

760
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: time doesn't matter, that it's not valuable, but they end

761
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: up living it out with their actions. They'll do almost

762
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: anything to save a buck. Yep, even if it means

763
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: spending precious amounts of time that they'd rather spend hiking,

764
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: playing games with friends or just reading a book, not

765
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: even something that produces an income or produces returns, but

766
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: maybe just something that they would love to do, right,

767
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: And so they spend maybe too much time couponning or

768
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: it's that classic example of driving another like two miles

769
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: to save ten cents a gallon on gas or something

770
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: like that. And when we don't value our time enough,

771
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: we're really squandering what is an even more important resource

772
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. And the more we

773
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: can kind of understand how limited and how valuable our

774
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: time really is, the more it might actually shift our

775
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: mindset on frugality. And you might end up paying for

776
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: things that you otherwise thought were ridiculous, or you might

777
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: spend a little extra here or there if it stops

778
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: you from having to make two or three runs to

779
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: different grocery stores and get it all in one place.

780
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: And then again, these are things I've had to adapt

781
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: to because I was the kind of guy who was

782
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: so frugal. I'd go to three different grocery stores to

783
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: save an extra ten Bucks, and now I'm like, wait

784
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: a second, that's crazy. I'm almost Matt and this might

785
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: sound ridiculous. I've almost gotten to the point where I'm

786
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: down to pay for grocery delivery because I'm like, wait

787
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: a second, if this is gonna And I'm the kind

788
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: of guy, like I said, I like to pick out

789
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: every single apple individually, like I want the best.

790
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: But because I feel like you're back on the farm, right, But.

791
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like getting it coming around to the

792
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: fact that time is so valuable. It is that it

793
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: might be worth the extra money to have those groceries delivered,

794
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: take it off my plate and not have to think

795
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: about it, and just not go to the grocery store

796
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: at all anymore. Even get it, I do love it.

797
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: Well, So I mean, the older we get, I think

798
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: this is something that folks come to more naturally as well,

799
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: because when you're younger, you think I've got all the

800
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: time in the world, even though the amount of time,

801
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: amount of life you have left is not guaranteed, right,

802
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: like we could all die next week, and so like

803
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 2: when you are comparing how much money you have versus

804
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: the amount of time you have, one of those is

805
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: most definitely more limited than the other. And I don't know,

806
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: maybe it's just the passing of time and the older

807
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: you get you realize that, like, oh my, my gosh, Like,

808
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 2: what do I want my life to look like? It's

809
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: not necessarily how much money that you can set aside,

810
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: but what do I want to spend my time doing?

811
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: And as long as we are intentionally choosing what it

812
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: is that we're spending our time doing and shaping and

813
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: designing our lives, I think that is what's most important.

814
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about what it looks like to embrace

815
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: frugality in a healthy way, Matt, Like, what are the

816
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: tenants of frugality that we should incorporate so that we

817
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: can be frugal but not overly frugal. We'll talk about

818
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: that next.

819
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: All right, now that we spent the whole last segment

820
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 2: kind of bashing on frugality a little bit, let's talk

821
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 2: about a.

822
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: Healthy embrace of frugality because, of course, you'll, like, we're

823
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: speaking out on both sides of our mouth. Sometimes we

824
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: do that often here on the show, because like, yes,

825
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: frugality is it can be a good thing.

826
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 2: You don't want to take it too far, but it's

827
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: pretty great. Reducing your expenses. That is a powerful tool

828
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: in your personal finance. Arsenal. We all know that we

829
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 2: applod folks out there, you know, who are asking for

830
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: a discount to save a few bucks. We'd love to

831
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 2: see you slash the recurring expenses like what you spend

832
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: on cell service and insurance. Those recurring expenses every single

833
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: month or every year. Those are meaningful dollars that you

834
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: can claw back into your life and making moves like

835
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: that it's one of the keys to growing that gap

836
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: so that you are able to invest more of your income,

837
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: allowing you to reach financial freedom sooner and freedom this

838
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: is one of the best things that money can buy,

839
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: right and so we want your you to have the

840
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: ability to distance yourself from your work off in the

841
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: future so that you have the ability to spend your

842
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: time like you want to spend it. So now we'll

843
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: give you our thoughts on how it is that you

844
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: can be frugal without going overboard to the extent that

845
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: you experience some of those diminishing returns. And we've talked

846
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: about you.

847
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: Want to find that sweet spot, right, You don't want

848
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: to go so hard that like every additional frugal act

849
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: really nets you very very little. You want to find Okay,

850
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: how can I maximize my frugality and not go too

851
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: hard to or I'm spending too much time thinking about

852
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: it with too little actual financial return to your life.

853
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about maybe a few tenants Matt,

854
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: that we have for embracing frugality in a healthy way.

855
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: One is to be frugal, not cheap. So don't allow

856
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: your frugality to enter into cheap territory. Like when your

857
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: pension for saving money negatively affects other people in your life,

858
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: it's gone too far. And this doesn't mean that you

859
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: should buy your kids everything they want, right And they're saying, listen,

860
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: dad or mom, you're being cheap because you're not going

861
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: to buy this thing for me. No, clearly that's not

862
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. But I heard you talking about

863
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: it on the podcast.

864
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard you. Let this negatively impacts what it

865
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: is that I get to play with.

866
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: Better buy me that name brand thing or that new

867
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: stuffed animal that I want, or that's what we're saying. No,

868
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: but if you're not tipping well, or you're not allowing

869
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: your partner to spend on experience and stuff that matter

870
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: to them. You've probably gone too far. You start to

871
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: flirt with cheapness when you're overly focused on saving a

872
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: buck now as opposed to thinking longer term.

873
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, Well, going back to what you're saying

874
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: about clothes, I think what this means is taking the

875
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: long view, and so I think sometimes what that might

876
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: mean is spending a little bit more because you're buying

877
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 2: something that's quality, even though it might cost you more

878
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: in the near term, knowing that it's something that you're

879
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: gonna wear often and something that you're going to receive

880
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: a lot of value and satisfaction over same thing with

881
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: the season passes. It might cost you a little bit

882
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: more now, But if that means a if you have

883
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: the bandwidth or the margin to be able to absorb

884
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: an expense like that, well over the course of the year,

885
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: you're gonna come out way ahead by spending a little

886
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: bit more now. I think that's the difference between being

887
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 2: overly focused on the near term versus kind of taking

888
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: that longer term mindset. But we do want you to

889
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 2: save money where you can. I think that's a healthy

890
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: aspect of embracing frugality. Because even though we want you

891
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: might be paying a little bit more for quality, just

892
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: paying full just because you can. Like, that's not necessarily

893
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: a badge of honor. Yeah, right, Like that's like anti frugality.

894
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily embracing fregality in a healthy way. It's

895
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: like not thinking about price and hitting purchase no matter

896
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 2: what exactly. Well, it makes me like buying new versus

897
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: when you could easily buy used, that's not something that

898
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: we want to encourage if there's that used option there

899
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: for you, right, Like searching for a coupon code, waiting

900
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: for a better sale to buy that item that you

901
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: really want. Like, these are all great behaviors, and honestly,

902
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: even just challenging your assumption about what it is that

903
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: you need, there's a big difference between your needs and

904
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 2: your wants. It makes me think back to our conversation

905
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: with Katie walk Stanley. She's got this motto and it's

906
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: a great one for frugal folks to live by. Her

907
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 2: motto is use it up, wear it out, make it

908
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: do or do without. And again she's calling into question

909
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 2: what it is that we think that we need versus

910
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: what it is that we can get by with and

911
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: I do think it's possible to take this too far, right,

912
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: Like Katie, she lives a different life than we do,

913
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 2: But I think it can be a helpful guide. And

914
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: what's cool is that it is up to us. We

915
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: get to personalize what it is that we want our

916
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: lives to look like. Like, she wants to reduce her

917
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: carbon footprint, and she is intentionally embracing that frugality, and

918
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: to us that seems something that she does might seem

919
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: a little bit cheap, but all that is is a

920
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: different a difference in goals and what it is that

921
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: she wants her life to look like, because it's a

922
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: different informed vision. Yes, to her, it's worth every action,

923
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: everything that she rescues from the curb, anything she pulls

924
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: out of a dumpster, because that is getting her closer

925
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 2: to the world that she wants to live in. And

926
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: I know, I think that's worth mentioning because even though

927
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: something might seem like something that might seem cheap to me,

928
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: might be the next person's frugal life that they want

929
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: to intentionally live by.

930
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So one other thing, if we're talking

931
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: about embracing frugality from a healthy, healthy perspective, would be

932
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: to be careful about becoming habitually frugal. And of course,

933
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, embracing a degree of frugality can be a

934
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: great habit to develop in order to reach your financial goals.

935
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: We've seen how it can be a difficult habit to

936
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: shake though. What it's time to actually start spending some

937
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: of that money? Yeah, it makes big of our conversation

938
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: with Brandon the mad Fientist. Oh yeah, and he's like, hey, like, well.

939
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: We had another recent ask out of money where the

940
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: guy was just like, like, when can I start spending

941
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: my money? Yeah, although I guess in his case he

942
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: was ready, like he had like it was more about

943
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts as opposed to what you're talking about.

944
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: It's more of like a like an attitude. It's giving

945
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: yourself permission, sort of making that switch from saving and

946
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 2: earning to actually saying, all right, it's time to start

947
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: spending my money. Yeah.

948
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: I mean to some naturally frugal folks, it's going to

949
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: take some work in order to give yourself the permission

950
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: that you need to spend that money. Really, like knowing

951
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: your craft beer equivalent, which is something we talk about

952
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: all the time on the show. Matt, I mean, yeah,

953
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: asking the question what are you spending money on intentionally

954
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: and proactively? And if you can't think of anything, and

955
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: when you ask yourself that question, you're probably leaning way

956
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: too hard in the frugal direction. So I think we

957
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 1: should all find ways to spend money in a way

958
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: that brings a lot of joy, that brings a lot

959
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: of value into our lives. And if we can't don't

960
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: have a good answer to what we're intentionally spending money

961
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: on that's bringing us joy, then we should probably go

962
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: back to the drawing board and do some soul searching,

963
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: because we should be spending money in ways that you

964
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: deliver a return. Yeah, And so what's out the crux

965
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: of what you're talking about is knowing what it is

966
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: that will bring you that return. And ultimately, I think

967
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: it's harder to say no to frugality as opposed to

968
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: yes to some of other life goals, right, Like, it's

969
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: hard to say no to something that you know is

970
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: going to make you wealthier unless you've identified something that

971
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: is going to make you wealthier in.

972
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: Other ways in life. And so what are some of

973
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: the other things that you're wanting to accomplish in life?

974
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: What is the actual purpose for the money that you've

975
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: been saving up Because for some folks, thinking through what

976
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: you want to spend your money on, like it's going

977
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: to be really easy, but sort of like you're saying, Joe,

978
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: like for others out there, for the ultra frugal lights,

979
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: this might prove to be a really difficult exercise. And

980
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: so I think a way to brainstorm just to think

981
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: through some of the different arenas of your life where

982
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: it is that you could spend money, Like, so think

983
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: about relationships, the different friendships that you have. Spending on

984
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: other people is what we're talking about here. But this

985
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 2: doesn't even necessarily have to be money that you're spending,

986
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 2: but even just time that you're giving up, like just

987
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: grabbing coffee or grabbing a beer with a friend. If

988
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: that's an area of your life that you're saying, Man,

989
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: I don't as like intermiddle age, I don't have as

990
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: many friends as I would have imagined that I would have,

991
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: or like there's always those different questionnaires that go out

992
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: where they're like, hey, if you had to call somebody

993
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night for an emergency, do

994
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: you have somebody other than family perhaps that you could

995
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: call on. I think that's an important question to think

996
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: through it, Like, giz, there somebody like that that you

997
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: could count on.

998
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, you could always buy your friend's

999
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: beer coffee too. That's like a great yeah se yeah, yeah,

1000
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: that's like that going even a little bit further than

1001
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: just making the time for it and then exactly being

1002
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: generous with the people around you. That is such a

1003
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: great exercise because I think it helps us, like you

1004
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: can still be frugal and be generous simultaneously.

1005
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: Totally, yeah, and so so yeah, relationships the people around you.

1006
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: But then like another area that I like to think

1007
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: through is my physical health. Right, Like you know, all

1008
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: we talk about for the most part here is like

1009
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: financial health. We talk about money, but there are these

1010
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: other aspects of life again, these other arenas, and I

1011
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: think your body, your physical health is an aspect as well.

1012
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: And so what this means oftentimes is does this mean

1013
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: it's now time to pay for a membership? This is

1014
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: something I finally came to the realization of. Like I

1015
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: was saying that I prioritize my physical health and that

1016
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: I could I could do these different exercises for free

1017
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: on my own, but I wasn't actually doing it, and

1018
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: so for me it meant the buy in of actually

1019
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 2: signing up. Or maybe if you.

1020
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: Don't have that physical health, by the way, it's really

1021
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: hard to enjoy your financial health later in life exactly.

1022
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 2: Or for other folks out there, they're really into foods,

1023
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: so maybe that means just like buying higher quality foods

1024
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: as opposed to like the absolute cheapest stuff that you

1025
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: can buy at aldi, which there's nothing wrong with that.

1026
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 2: That's something we still do. But other arenas in life,

1027
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: so like maybe like when it comes to religion or

1028
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: being spiritual, I think this is maybe one less about spending,

1029
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: but it does emphasize earning less money and maybe being

1030
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: slightly less quote unquote productive because you're going to church

1031
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: or maybe you're going to synagogue once a week rather

1032
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: than working. These are just all different ways that we

1033
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 2: can think about the other aspects that make life rewarding

1034
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: outside of just growing your net worth. And actually, you know,

1035
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: we talked about this back. We did an entire episode

1036
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: dedicated to creating a money mission statement. This is something

1037
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 2: that you may have heard us talk about, but if

1038
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: you have not yet done this, we're serious about this.

1039
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: This is like This really does matter if you are

1040
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: able to identify some of these other goals in life

1041
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: that you want to achieve outside of your finances. It

1042
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: is so important to focus on those things because that

1043
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: will then inform how it is that you spend your money.

1044
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: If you don't have a why, a light at the

1045
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: end of the tunnel, a thing that you're shooting for,

1046
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: a kind of a lifestyle goals, like ways of moving

1047
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: through this life that you are like actively searching after

1048
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: you are going to get keep doing the thing you've

1049
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: been doing. You're not going to take a path that

1050
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: offers greater levels of resistance. You're not going to make

1051
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 1: any changes ultimately. And so yeah, that money mission statement,

1052
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: having that developing that why, kind of doing some of

1053
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: that inner work is really going to help you realize

1054
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: and see, Okay, cool, am I being too frugal? Or

1055
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: am I maybe I haven't been frugal enough because I

1056
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: haven't implemented this tool that's going to help me reach

1057
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: these other goals that I have for myself from a

1058
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: financial perspective. Part of that, Matt is the thing we

1059
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: talk about all the time is the craft beer equivalent, Like,

1060
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: what are those two or three things that are worth

1061
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: spending a heck of a lot of money on right

1062
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: now that a whole lot of other people would say, Well,

1063
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 1: that's a silly way to spend money. Why why would

1064
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: you do that? What is that in your life? That's

1065
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: a good question to ask and maybe see if there

1066
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: are ways that you can redirect existing expenses to increase

1067
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: your ability to spend in those ways, to increase the

1068
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: joy that you're getting from the money that is flowing

1069
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,959
Speaker 1: out of out of your accounts every month, Like where

1070
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: that money goes should be a reflection of your values,

1071
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: And it's a good thing to question, well, is it

1072
00:47:59,320 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: is that the case right now?

1073
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: Now?

1074
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: Am I spending so much money on this and this

1075
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: line item? And boy I could care less about that stuff,

1076
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: but man, I'm really not able to spend on this,

1077
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: this and this, And if I could just kind of

1078
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: like move some things around that my spending would then

1079
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: be a better reflection of who I am. So yeah,

1080
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: I would take a look. Can you readirect some of

1081
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: those funds to ensure that they reflect what you care

1082
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: about more closely? That can look like cutting back on

1083
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: eating out to the tune of a few hundred bucks

1084
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: a month, So you can actually afford to take that

1085
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: family vacation, right or ditching a car from your life

1086
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: so you can free up thousands of dollars allowing you

1087
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: to take like a work sabbatical for three months. Who knows,

1088
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: like that is intensely personal, but well that's the.

1089
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: Best part is the fact that it is personal, right,

1090
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: and we all get to decide what it is that

1091
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: we want our lives to look like, Like this is

1092
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: the creative side of personal finances that I think oftentimes

1093
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: gets overlooked because it's like, oh, personal finances, that's just

1094
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: about the money. It's like, well, no, there's the whole behavioral,

1095
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 2: psychological aspect of personal finances in your money. But then

1096
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: there's also the personalization side of it and the fact

1097
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: that we are all seeking after different things in life.

1098
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's the part that hopefully can make

1099
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: a more impactful, like longer lasting impact on your life,

1100
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: is because you're anchoring it to something that you truly

1101
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: care about, it that somebody else cares about, more emotional

1102
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: and creative than we give it credit for. Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

1103
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 2: And so ultimately we want you to have these like

1104
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: essentially like a bigger vision beyond just saving money. It's

1105
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: not just about the dollars. It's about truly what, like

1106
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: what are all these dollars for? And frugality it's one

1107
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: part of the equation. But if you focus too long

1108
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: and too hard in that direction, you're likely going to

1109
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: miss out on the other side of the equation, which

1110
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: is spending your money in ways that are going to

1111
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: bring you joy. We shouldn't feel guilty about spending within

1112
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: our means, you know, Like, honestly, the money stories that

1113
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: make me the saddest are the ones out there where

1114
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: there's like a janitor or a librarian dying and they

1115
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: happen to have millions in the bank. They didn't make

1116
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 2: a whole lot of money, They lived such a frugal existence,

1117
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 2: and they because of that, they amassed a fortune. And

1118
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 2: that's kind of sad unless, honestly, they found ultimate fulfillment

1119
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 2: in doing that. If if that was something that they

1120
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: intentionally chose, I'm totally cool with that. But for if

1121
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: they didn't give it the thought, if they didn't think bigger, like,

1122
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: what is it that could potentially bring me more joy?

1123
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 2: That's when I think that they're perhaps missing out.

1124
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: I think I think lots of times it was extreme

1125
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: frugality without the realization that, man, I can do some

1126
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: really cool with that, but not just spending on myself.

1127
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be or on you exactly.

1128
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: Finally, consumption, because even if they're planning to give it away, Man,

1129
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: how much joy would that have brought you to proactively

1130
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: give that away and to maybe even see the impact

1131
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: of what your dollars could have done. And you mentioned

1132
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 2: mad fientists earlier, and I think I cut you off,

1133
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,959
Speaker 2: but I think in our interview with him, he talked

1134
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: about the fire community and how unfortunately a lot of

1135
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: times all the fire folks the financial independence retire early.

1136
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: They want to hang out with each other and like

1137
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: talk about fire stuff. And if that's what you're doing,

1138
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: you're missing the point. That's what you've in this case,

1139
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 2: like you've raised fire up to the point toward has

1140
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: become the end as opposed to the means to the end.

1141
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: In this episode, what we're talking about is frugality. And

1142
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 2: if you have elevated frugality so much that it becomes

1143
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: the end and not the means to the end, well,

1144
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 2: then we think that you're missing out on a whole light,

1145
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: a whole lot of what it is that life offers

1146
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 2: that makes life actually fulfilling.

1147
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: And that's why, even though Brain is part of the

1148
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: fire movement and you and I are not necessarily all

1149
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: about it, there's certain things we respect about it, certain

1150
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: things we really do appreciate it. There's a lot of

1151
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: good advice in that realm. I think part of the

1152
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: reason we connect with Brain and so deeply is because

1153
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: we share so many other things in common, not just

1154
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: kind of a respect and care for about the topic

1155
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: of money. So you know it, That's why I like

1156
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: craft beer.

1157
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: Craft beer, which is what maybe like seventy percent of

1158
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 2: our conversation revolved around craft beer when we were hanging

1159
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: out with them in person, not on the pod, not

1160
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: on the actual interview. Yet well about the whole rest

1161
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: of the time we were just talking about beer. Wait,

1162
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 2: we were talking about so.

1163
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: Much other stuff, live in life, in his life in

1164
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: Scotland and stuff and kids and yeah, different priorities.

1165
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we did definitely have a coffee. We've spent

1166
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 2: a lot of super nerdy craft beer tasting nerding out

1167
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: on coffee as well. But yeah, that's that's what's important.

1168
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: We don't want you to lose sight of what it

1169
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: is that you're truly seeking after, and you become obsessed

1170
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 2: with the numbers. Make sure that you keep that in

1171
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: its proper place, make sure that that continues to be

1172
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: the means too, whatever it is that your end is

1173
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: to you. But Joe, let's go ahead. Is that it

1174
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: you want to talk about the beer? Now? Let's do

1175
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: it all right? Okay? This is the void of perspective

1176
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: that became you and me. This is a double IPA

1177
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: by Burial. What your thoughts on this one, buddy? Okay?

1178
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: This one had like cotton candy sweet kind of vibes

1179
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: going on. Am I wrong?

1180
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: It says dream candy on the back.

1181
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: I know, I think that's what tipped my brain in

1182
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: that direction. But I do think it definitely was more

1183
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 1: sweet than the rest of our IPAs that we've had.

1184
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it so is. The last Wednesday when we had

1185
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: the one that made that we were talking about it

1186
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: was almost like a fresh hop. It was kind of

1187
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: like sparkly and kind of efferifescent and bright. In my mind,

1188
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: this one goes along. It's in that same vein as

1189
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 2: opposed to some of the Burials IPAs, which are super

1190
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: earthy and vegetable. This one is it's got those higher notes.

1191
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: This one almost takes it like hop syr up to

1192
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: me like it had like you just had a lot

1193
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: more sweetness going on to it. I guess it did,

1194
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: and so I don't know. I enjoyed it, but it's

1195
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: not as much as Yeah, maybe last week's exactly. So

1196
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I really really like it. You like sweet,

1197
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: I like him a little bit sweeter, And I don't

1198
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: think it's I do. I have been cutting back on

1199
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 1: my sugar intake. I'm trying to be a little bit healthier,

1200
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: but I did. Yeah, I definitely definitely like this one.

1201
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: And I don't know Dream Candy.

1202
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a collaboration or I don't know.

1203
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll look it up and link to it in

1204
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 2: our show notes. But regardless, yet another fantastic ipa. Buy

1205
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 2: our friends up there at Burial, and I just call

1206
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: them our friends because I think we'd get along even

1207
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: though we don't know anybody personally up there at Burial.

1208
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: But if you are a fan of IPAs and you

1209
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: have not had some of these amazing IPAs by Burial,

1210
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 2: we would highly recommend them for sure.

1211
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: Super Tasty or Matt. That's going to do it for

1212
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: this episode. Listeners can find show notes up on the

1213
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: website at howtomoney dot com. You can also find our

1214
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: credit card tool there. Just click the link in the

1215
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: upper right hand corner. You'll get there and you'll find

1216
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: hopefully the best credit card for how you spend for

1217
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: cash back or travel or whatever you're looking for.

1218
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, the different benefits that you're looking for

1219
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: if you are able, of course, to use a credit

1220
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 2: card in a responsible way, which means not caring a balance.

1221
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 2: We're talking to the advanced users of credit out there,

1222
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: but Jiel, that's going to be it for this episode, Buddy.

1223
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.