1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: the Biden White House is doing its best not to 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: be involved, talk about or in any way touched the 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: Justice Department today. So, yes, we did kill the head 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but remember this was less 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: than a year after he said al Qaeda was done 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. Floomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: DC's top names. I don't think there's any question that 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Russian intelligence scott this wrong. Well, I think President Trump 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: and his lawyers are probably a fairly nervous Bloomberg Sound 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Vladimir Putin and 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: Shi Jin Ping are both expected to attend the G 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: twenty summit in November. What's President Biden's response. Congresswoman Liz 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Cheney says former Vice President Mike Pence should testify in 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: front of the January six committee, and Senate Minority Leader 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell says candidate quality maybe an issue for Republicans 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: as they try to win control of the Upper Chamber. 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick sitting in today for Joe Matthew. We're 19 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: gonna talk foreign policy with James Jeffrey, who has been 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: US Ambassador to Iraq, Turkey, and Albania. He's now at 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: the Wilson Center. I'm also gonna ask Jane Campbell, the 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: president of the US Capital Historical Society, how two hundred 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: year old slabs of sandstone and marble from the Capital 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: ended up dumped in a park in d C. Bloomberg 25 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jennie she Inzana with me 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: to help round out the week on fry ye a 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: that is the technical term for today. This could be 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable. Chinese President shi Jinping and Russian President 29 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin are both expected to come to the G 30 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: twenty summit in November. Uh not the best friends of 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: President Joe Biden, who was planning to attend and has 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: not officially reversed that position. We'll have a discussion on 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: that later. Here's what Indonesian President Joco Widodo said about 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: this coming summit with Bloomberg News editor in chief John 35 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: Michael Thwaite. I know that you have invited President Jijing 36 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: Ping to come to the D twenty. Has he has? 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: He said he will come here in November. Welcome and 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: President Putin. President Putin has also told me he will come. 39 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: Let's bring in James Jeffrey, former Ambassador to Iraq and 40 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: Turkey as well as Albania, former Special Envoy to the 41 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Global Coalition to defeat isis chair of the Middle East 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: Program at the Wilson Center, exactly the kind of expert 43 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: in statecraft we've got to hear from UH. Now. Ambassador Jeffrey, 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Big question is 45 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: if she and Putin are going, should President Biden still 46 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: go UM. I'll divide the question. Obviously, being in a 47 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: meeting of the G twenty was she UH is not 48 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: a problem? Biden is about to have a conversation with 49 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: g We still maintain relatively um normal, if not good 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: relations with China or a huge UH supplier of China 51 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: still in a huge purchaser of Chinese um Um products. 52 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: So obviously that's not a problem. The problem, to be 53 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: blunt is prutent that creates problems. We had the problems 54 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: at an earlier GREW meeting at the Ministers of Foreign 55 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: Affairs level. UM Blincoln went, but UH forign Minister Lavra 56 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: of Russia made only a cameo appearance The good news 57 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: is that even if Putin shows it won't mean all 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: that much. The G twenty is not all of that relevant. 59 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: What's critical is where Europe, where Japan, Where Korea, Where 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: Australia and a few other countries, UH, And concerning China, 61 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: where India is. Although China is a friend of Russia's, 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: we're still working with all of those countries to maintain 63 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: this global UH collective security alliance and it's holding together 64 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: pretty well. I don't think this will be a major 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: blow to it. So why then do you think that 66 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: the US pushed against UH, President Putin attending, pushed for 67 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: Russia to be kicked out of the G twenty overall? 68 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: Why did those fail? And why is Putin invited if 69 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: the US didn't want that to happen. That's a great 70 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: UH question. And UH, you have a sophisticated audience, so 71 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: most of them will not be surprised what I say. 72 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: There's a difference between what presidents say on foreign policy 73 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: that they really mean and will put juice and effort 74 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: and risk and cost into doing, and what they say 75 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: simply UH to put a spin on things and act 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: like they're doing things. Saying will block Putin from an 77 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: organization that we have absolutely no authority to throw him 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: out of. Uh. It makes you feel good, but it 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: doesn't do anything. I wish presidents didn't do this. I 80 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: don't know of one, and I've served for many who 81 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: doesn't do it. Uh, you just have to grie impart. 82 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: I guess. So, if if President Putin and President Biden 83 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: attend Ambassador Jeffrey, you've dealt with Putin, what should the 84 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: interactions be like? What would the US strategy be going 85 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: into the G twenty. Ah, that's another and very important question. 86 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: It is absolutely essential that we work every lever, including 87 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: Biden personally, to ensure not only that Joe Biden doesn't 88 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: meet with Putin, that's easy, but that nobody else of 89 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: importance sits down and gets a photo off with that guy. 90 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: A few will, like the Indonesians and the host It's 91 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: very important that we limit the amount of love UH 92 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: Putin gets from the G twenty because he doesn't deserve 93 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: love from anybody. So that's a really different thing. Now 94 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: we've gotten into the realm of real farm policy. How 95 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: do we do that or how does President Biden do that? 96 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: Are there is there back room horse trading to make 97 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: sure does is there something that other foreign leaders want 98 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: from the US in those conversations, if President Biden is saying, 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: please please please stay away from Putin, don't legitimize him, Sure, 100 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: this is what I mean. Again, the administration will get 101 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: a lot of fluff out on the ear. The talking 102 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: points that I would write, and I'm pretty sure they 103 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 1: are very similar to the ones that will be going 104 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: out to our embassies to pass on to hits of 105 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 1: state of the G twenty will be along the following lines, 106 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: Are you crazy? This guy is a war criminal? And 107 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: more importantly, he's a loser. He's not making any gains 108 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: militarily against a state one quarter of his size, but 109 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: violating the entire international order to do so. He doesn't 110 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: deserve your time. Furthermore, here are the six things that 111 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: we've been doing with you or you want from us 112 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: that are gonna go put If you spend five minutes 113 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: with this guy in front of a camera, that's not 114 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: a lot of talking points, just too but they'll work. 115 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: And as for the message sent to Putin himself, how 116 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: does all of this lay into what seems to be 117 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: the overall international attempt from the West to show Vladimir 118 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: Putin that there's nothing to win in this invasion of Ukraine. 119 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: How pivotal would this G twenty summit be in in 120 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: sending that message again? If Putin only he will get 121 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: a meeting with the Indians, because for good reason, the 122 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: Indians have an existential struggle with China. Their arms merchant 123 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: is Putin, so they need him. They're also uh much 124 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: in debt to Putin's oil deliveries because India doesn't have much, 125 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: so check that, check Indonesia, A couple of other third 126 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: world countries will meet with Putin. The crucial thing is 127 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: that nobody as part of the American Alliance system, that's Japan, 128 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: that's Korea, that's the European States, has anything to do 129 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: with Putin. That's enough. That's six of global GDP, that's 130 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: most of the military muscle in the world. If they 131 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: isolate Putin and make it clear that he is not 132 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: persona grata in these meetings are with him, that will 133 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: send the message we need to send. Now. Ukrainian President 134 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: Vladimir Zelinski was asked to come, He was invited, that 135 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: was in the news a while back. Would would it 136 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: stand to reason that he would come to this or 137 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: how does the presence of Putin play into that? He 138 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: absolutely sure it is a distinct honor to invite Zelinski. 139 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: And what the Indonesians, however, was behind this is doing 140 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: is saying, look, well, he realized this is a very 141 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: crucial moment in international relations. Russia too big to ignore, 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: but no real friend has violated all international norms. How 143 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: do we signal that without burning our bridges? To Putin? Answer, 144 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: we invite Solinsky. Boy, he's gonna hate that Putin? Are 145 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: there then security concerns? I'm thinking of way back when 146 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: a few years ago, when President Putin met with an American, 147 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: one of the American presidents and blank give him a 148 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: soccer ball. They had to search the soccer ball for threats. 149 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: If they're both around each other, Putin and Zelinsky, how 150 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: do how did the logistics get managed of security at 151 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: this I've been inside the Secret Service bubble a lot 152 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: with President Trump and less so with several other presidents. 153 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that they will be on their 154 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: guide about anything from Putin. And secondly, the last thing 155 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: Putin wants is to try to pull any uh stunts 156 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: with President Biden. Is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Stepping 157 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: back a bit, is the invasion a failure of the 158 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: G twenty and other uh I guess aspects of the 159 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: international order? What does all of this say about the 160 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: successes or failures of the G twenty. That's the second 161 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: great question. Uh The G twenty is, as I said, 162 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: a bit of a fast. The G seven, which used 163 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: to be the G eight with Russia, did a lot 164 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: more real things. The G twenty is simply a talk 165 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: shop of all the important countries, but they can't agree 166 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: on anything. But there is an international order, and it's 167 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: been functioning more or less since the late nineteen forties 168 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: of an answer to World War one and two, and 169 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: it has survived many things, including the Cold War. It 170 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: is under direct threat by Putin and Ukraine. It's not 171 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: just collective security, it's the entire trade system, it's finances, 172 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: it's everything that makes the world go around and move 173 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: sixty million barrels of oil a day. All over the 174 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: world sees this is crucial. Putin has challenged it, and 175 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: therefore we have to stand together, link arms and make 176 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: sure that he doesn't gain out of this. With that 177 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: in mind, briefly, what do you think China has learned 178 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: from the international response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine that 179 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: we are much more united in America, a much more 180 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: effective leader than China had imagined, and that invading even 181 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: a small country can lead to unanticipated, very very bad consequences. 182 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: I think we're all safe for today, beginning with the 183 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: Taiwanese UH. Then before Russia invaded UH Ukraine, Ambassador Jeffrey, 184 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Great insights by 185 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: Ambassador James Jeffrey. UH served as an ambassador to Iraq, Turkey, Albania, 186 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: and a number of roles and is at the Wilson Center. Now. 187 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Son On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 188 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: Hijin Thing and Vladimir Putin, both expected to attend the 189 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: G twenty summit in November, putin a particularly uncomfortable point 190 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: for Americans, including President Joe Biden, who's scheduled to attend. 191 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: James Jeffrey, the former ambassador to Iraq, Turkey, and Albania, 192 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: over at the Wilson Center now says not only should 193 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Biden go, but Vladimir Zelenski, the President of Ukraine, whose 194 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: country has been invaded by Russia absolutely needs to go. 195 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: He was invited a while back, was expected to attend 196 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: in November. Let's go to the annal are Bloomberg Politics 197 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: contributors Rick Davis and Genie she and Zano. Rick, what 198 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: do you make of that assessment by Jeffrey that Zelensky 199 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: has got to go the This is a I don't 200 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: know if that's necessarily a face off, but he can't 201 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: back down with Putin planning to attend as well. Yeah, 202 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: I thought I thought Ambassador Jeffrey was spot on. I 203 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: thought his analysis of the situation around the G twenty 204 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: meeting and the relationship between the Western Nations and Vladimir 205 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: Putin was was was just perfect. Um. Look, Zelensky has 206 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: participated in every major international forum in the last year 207 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: since the invasion. Um, he's either beamed he's beamed in 208 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: up until that point in time. It would be a 209 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: dramatic moment if he showed up in person at the 210 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: G twenty meeting, especially if Vladimir Putin is there. So uh, 211 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: obviously number one with him is going to be security 212 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: and whether or not he can afford to take the 213 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: time uh out of being in the Ukraine to make 214 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: the trip but you get the impression we're at a 215 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: critical juncture in this fight that's entered a stalemate, and UM, 216 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: the kind of importance of rallying nations to the cause 217 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: of Ukrainian freedom is going to be even more important, 218 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: UH so that they don't lose the initiative. So I 219 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: think it would be very exciting for Zelenski to make 220 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: an apparent frankly, much more so UH than UH than 221 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: having either President or Putin and UH and G and Rick. 222 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: What what do you make of those security challenges? I 223 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: I I'm just thinking of the drama of UH, Putin 224 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: and Zelenski and Biden all attending. How feasible is it 225 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: that everybody feels confident in this happening safely? Well, the 226 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: one complication is Zelensky in Ukraine. I mean, Vladimir Putin's 227 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: trying to kill Olensky and his family. They made no 228 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: bones about that. They have assassin squads, they try to 229 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: target his location, and he's done a phenomenal job of 230 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: being able to stay in the public eye, you know, 231 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: through these video broadcasts, but also to stay out of 232 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: harm's way. UM. Moving him out of the out of 233 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: Ukraine and into UH Indonesia for this event um poses 234 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: its own natural challenges to security, and I think that 235 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,119 Speaker 1: has to be paramount to everything. Genie. Real quick, how 236 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: feasible is it for the US to try to go 237 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: around making sure everybody Ice is out Putin while he's there. 238 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: It's not feasible for them to do that. They are 239 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: going to certainly talk with our NATO allies and they're 240 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: going to try to put up a united front. But 241 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: I do think the fact that the United States and 242 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: some NATO allies tried to pressure Indonesia not to invite 243 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin and jij and Ping this is a problem 244 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: because they didn't succeed, and so it would be an 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: incumbent on the administration knowing that if they're invited, we 246 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: are still going to attend to not put that pressure 247 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: on and then have this turn around. Indonesia officials basically 248 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: decided they were going to act as sort of the 249 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: middle men here and moderate this, be mediators on this, 250 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: and so I think the U s this was not 251 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: a good move. I do agree Zelenski, but my understanding 252 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: as if he comes, he'll probably becoming electronically and so 253 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, he can make an appearance that way, but 254 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: the United States to be in a position of saying, 255 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: don't invite them and then there they show up. Not 256 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: a not a good sign for the US. Speaking of 257 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: high profile appearances that we don't necessarily know will happen 258 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: or how they'll happen. Other big piece of news today, 259 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: Congresswoman Liz Cheney, the key Republican on the January sixth committee, 260 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: says she's been in touch or the committee itself has 261 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: been in touch with the council for former Vice President 262 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,479 Speaker 1: Mike Pence, and she says that she hopes he will testify. 263 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: Here's what she had to say to a b he 264 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: Knews about the critical role the former vice president has played. 265 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: He played a critical role on January six If he 266 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: had succumbed to the pressure that Donald Trump was putting 267 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: on him, we would have had a much worse constitutional crisis. 268 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: And I think that he has clearly as he's expressed, 269 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: UM concerns about executive privilege, which you know, I have 270 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: tremendous respect. I think it's it's you know, hugely important 271 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: constitutional issue in terms of separation of powers. I believe 272 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: in executive privilege. I think it matters UM, but I 273 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: also think that when the country has been through something 274 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: as grave as this was, everyone who has information has 275 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: an obligation to set forward. That was on ABC's This Week. 276 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: To hear the full interview, you can tune in right 277 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: here on Bloomberg Radio Sunday at one pm. Jennie, what 278 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: do you think the likelihood is of this actually happening? 279 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: You know, I am not convinced that the Vice president 280 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: has changed his mind about appearing, and I did not 281 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: read his statement in New Hampshire the other day as 282 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: anything more than sort of a usual Mike Pence a 283 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: lot of words, very little change in what he is 284 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: going to do. But I would say I know that 285 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney has also said that, unlike the Vice president's 286 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: um statement, there is precedent for an appearance like this. 287 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: On the nine eleven Commission, for instance, she indicated after 288 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: Nixon's part and President Ford testified before a subcommittee. So 289 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: to say it is unprecedented, she at least is claiming 290 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: is not entirely accurate. So I think that's something to note. 291 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: Unusual maybe, but not unprecedented. I am not gonna lie. 292 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: This is my favorite scoop of mine as a reporter. 293 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: In Washington, d C. I cover the federal budget. I 294 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: write about trillions of dollars of money. I sometimes get 295 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: to host this show when Joe Matthew isn't in. But 296 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: my absolute favorite story is about the old Capital stones. 297 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: These are a couple of hundred years old. It seems 298 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: they're from the original US Capital building. They were taken 299 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: out of the east front of the Capital in the 300 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: renovations that they did nineteen fifty eight to sixty two 301 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: and were dumped in a park in Washington, d C. 302 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: Because what else do you do with a bunch of 303 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: sandstone and marble. You don't send it to a museum. 304 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: You put it in a park by an old maintenance facility. 305 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: They turned into an unsanctioned destination for locals and some 306 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: tourists because it's a cool thing to go see and 307 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: let your kids climb over. But now they are being moved, 308 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: and it seems that there's been a plan for a 309 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: few years to to move them, uh and not allow 310 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: the public to see them. They're going to a warehouse 311 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: at Fort Meade in Maryland. I've heard from officials from 312 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: the architect of the Capital as well as the National 313 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: Park Service. Let's talk to Jane Campbell, the president of 314 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: the US Capital Historical Society and a former mayor of Cleveland. 315 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Mayor Campbell, thank you so much for joining us. I'm 316 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: curious what you make of this plan and what it 317 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: says about. I guess our our tendency to take our 318 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: history and and sometimes honor and revere it and sometimes 319 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: just dump it in the woods. Well, I appreciate very 320 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: much being on and talking about this issue, because for us, 321 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: we look at it in you know, what's how did 322 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: we get here? What's the historical context? The original United 323 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: States Capital Dome was constructed in eighteen twenty four. It 324 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: was wood and copper, and by the mid nineteenth century 325 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: there had been expansion of the House and Senate chambers 326 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: and the facilities for them, and the dome was too 327 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: small in relation to the rest of the Capital. And 328 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, the dome was rotting because the 329 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: wood was rotting underneath the copper lining. So the new 330 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: architect of the Capital, then Thomas Walter, proposed that we 331 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: create a cast iron dome, the one we know today 332 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: that we see today. UM and Congress appropriated funds for 333 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: that in eighteen fifty five. Initially, the dome was completed 334 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty six. Now remember what was going on 335 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: at that time in this country, So think about how 336 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: important it was to continue to build our temple of 337 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: democracy in the midst of the Civil war. But the 338 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: dome as it was completed was too wide for the 339 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: center of the capital, and it's it overhung the east front, 340 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: and over the next ninety years the imbalanced weight damaged 341 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: the original eighteen twenty areas sandstone facade on the east 342 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: wind on the east front, and sandstone is not that 343 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: sturdy of a building material, AREO. Remember we've learned a 344 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: lot about building materials over the years, um and so 345 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: in what was happening in is that the decorative art 346 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: was beginning to decay. The columns were you know, they 347 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: would freeze, they would get water in them, and then 348 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: they would not be stable. And so in the nineteen fifties, 349 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: Congress authorized the architect of the Capital to expand the 350 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: east front with a copy of the original facade, but 351 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: made from a more durable marble and made in a 352 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: way to balance properly. So at that point the sandstone 353 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: from the front uh became excess material. The stone the 354 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: stairs and if you look at the columns were moved 355 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: to the National Arboretum, and you can go to the 356 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: National Arboretum today and see though original columns. They're displayed. 357 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: There's a reflecting pool, their interpretive signs, so you know 358 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: what you're looking at. You understand that this is a 359 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: preservation of history. The rest of the stone, the steps, 360 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: and some of the other stones were put at Rock 361 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: Creek Park and with it honestly looks kind of like 362 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: a pile of rocks. U And so remember in the 363 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties we didn't feel the same way about historic 364 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: preservation that we do now. The National Historic Preservation Act 365 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: wasn't passed until nineteen sixty six. So part of it 366 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: is remembering the time that the decision was made to 367 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: put the rocks there. And so what's happened now is 368 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: that agually people have begun to know that the rocks 369 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: were there, But if you go out there, there's not 370 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: a sign that tells you what it is um And 371 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: now there's a fence around it. But before there was 372 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: a fence around it, it was, you know, a pile 373 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: of rocks, and if you looked very carefully at it, 374 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: you could see the intricate carving that had been done 375 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: by the Italian craftsman who came as stone carvers, but 376 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: there was no memory of it. And I've noticed you 377 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: can see like a code, a letter and a number 378 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: on some of them where it guided where they'd put it. 379 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious, and I've heard from people who have 380 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: have complained that they don't want these to go away? 381 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: Why not put these in the arboretum? I understand it 382 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: took a lot of effort from people like Ethel Garrett 383 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: and the friends of the National Arboretum to put the columns, 384 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: the original East front columns in the National Arboretum. Why 385 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: why are these stones then sort of jumped unceremoniously in 386 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: a park, and why why not put them in the Arboretum? Now, well, 387 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: let me tell you. The Capital Historical Society exists to 388 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: tell the story of the Capital and the story of 389 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: the Congress. We don't get to make the decisions, um. 390 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: And so why the decision was made to do it 391 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: in the way it was done, I can't I can't comment. 392 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. Number one, I wasn't there in the 393 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: fifties when that decision was being made. UM. But we 394 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: have said that we would like to see the stones 395 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: preserved um and displayed in some kind of a way. 396 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: We you know, we're not in a position to say 397 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: exactly how that's going to be. We did work with 398 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: UH the Italian American Cultural Museum of Washington, d C. 399 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: Fascinating group of people, UM and they very much wanted 400 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: to have a piece of those rocks to recognize the 401 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: Italian American stone cutters, and we helped them to get 402 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: connected with the architect of the Capitol, and the architect 403 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: of the Capitol gave them a piece of the stone 404 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: with carving, which is on display at the Italian American 405 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: Museum of Washington, d C. So there, you know, there 406 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: are ways that we can display this, that these uh, 407 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: these rocks can be displayed right now, what I think 408 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the background of the decision. 409 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: I learned of the decision in when we went out 410 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: to see the rocks with the Italian American UH Cultural 411 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: Museum folks um as they were trying to look at 412 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: it to secure the donation, and that was when I 413 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 1: first learned about it. And you could see that they 414 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: were at risk UM as people were crawling over them 415 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: as they were you know, just exposed to the elements, 416 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: and you could also see that the columns are displayed 417 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: with majesty. These are not that, and so if in 418 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: fact it makes sense, it makes sense to preserve the 419 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: rocks with the carvings while trying to figure out how 420 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: they can be displayed. That makes a lot of sense. 421 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: Should be the risk to the rocks and risk to people? 422 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: Should they Should the Smithsonian be involved? Should they go 423 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: to the Arboretum? If you had your dream, where would 424 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: these go? And how would they be displayed? If at all? 425 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: I think they should be displayed in a way that 426 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: has the same kind of majesty that the columns has. 427 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: Um the question of who has the capacity to do that, 428 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question, and so 429 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: I would like to see it done in a way 430 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: that people can visit interpretation. I'm interested in how these 431 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: have become a sort of these orphans stones. It sounds 432 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: like maybe the National Park Service doesn't really want them 433 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: there in Rock Creek Park. Uh there there's not a 434 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: specific plan, and it sounds like it's been you know, 435 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: two or three years since they've been planning to move 436 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: these two a warehouse. I mean, why, why no announcement 437 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: on this. Should there have been an announcement? Should there 438 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: have been, um, maybe a little more transparency or it 439 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: almost seems like these were going to be moved secretly. 440 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what I mean. We we did have 441 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: a pandemic and that shut down all kind of things. Uh, 442 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: So exactly what the thinking was I can't comment on 443 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: because I don't. No, I wasn't I wasn't involved in 444 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: the decision. UM. One other topic, I'm I'm very interested 445 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: in the perspective from the Capital Historical Society. Uh. Looking 446 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: back on January one, as the Congressional Committee continues to 447 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: investigate everything there, what do you all think needs to 448 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: be done to understand that part not only of national history, 449 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: but of the Capital's history well. As a matter of fact, 450 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: the Capital Historical Society has been conducting a series of 451 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: oral histories, uh, where people have been coming and telling 452 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: us their story. We're not part of any investigation, We're 453 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: just preserving the stories for for the future. Some people 454 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: have asked us to keep their names confidential for a 455 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: period of time, and so we've accepted doing those on 456 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: a you know, anonymous brasis for now UM. And we 457 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: have really found that people open up and tell their stories, 458 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: and we're continuing to collect those stories. So if anyone 459 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: has that, um, it's January six history dot org um 460 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: and when, um, when might we read or learn from 461 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: that is there? I guess are you? Are you giving 462 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: yourself a deadline to put something out for the people 463 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: to learn of everything you've learned in that January six process? Um, 464 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: we haven't given ourselves a deadline because we're looking at 465 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: this that we're collecting the stories so that they will 466 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: be here for history. UM. You know, there are plenty 467 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: of investigations going on there. There are plenty of folks 468 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: who are working to try to make reports about who 469 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: did what to who. What we're looking at is what 470 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: were people's actual experience. For example, I talked to one 471 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: uh one person who who was the father of someone 472 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: who was in the capital and I had done an 473 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: interview with her. She was a staff member who was 474 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: on the floor and she was a first generation college student. 475 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: This was her father who had was communicating with her 476 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: by text during this time, and he said, you know, 477 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: I felt so guilty because I got her involved in politics. 478 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: I've been so proud of her. She'd gone to college 479 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: she'd gotten this great job, she was working, she's working 480 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: on her master's degree, and then I felt like I 481 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: put her at risk. Jane Campbell, thank you so much. 482 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: Mayor Campbell, President of the US Capital Historical Society. Couple 483 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: really interesting issues. Let's go to the panel Bloomberg Politics 484 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: contributors Rick Davis and Genie she and Zano, guys. I 485 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: want to talk about not only next Tuesday's primaries, but 486 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: some of the bigger picture stuff as we try to 487 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: figure out exactly what the state of play is UH 488 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: in the quest for control of the House and Senate. 489 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: One update on that from the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, 490 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: somebody who as much as anybody else in the world, 491 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: wants Republicans to win in the Senate. UH. Senator McConnell 492 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: is kind of tamping down expectations about Republicans regaining control 493 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: of the Senate. He spoke in Florence, Kentucky and said 494 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: there is a greater likelihood that Republicans control the House 495 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: in the next congress. Here's what he had to say 496 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: about Republicans chances of taking the Senate. Canada candidate Quality. 497 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: I wonder who he's talking about. Rick Davis, What are 498 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: your thoughts? Who are the culprits here? If if is 499 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: Senator McConnell being let down by anybody trying to win 500 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: some Republican seats in the Senate. Oh sure, I think 501 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: he was channeling his inner thinking. Uh. And and he 502 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: is the kind of person who will speak his mind, 503 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: and so especially when he's home and talking to his constituents, 504 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: he lets his hair down and uh, and he did 505 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: so in this case. Look, we just had a contest 506 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: in Arizona, UH to nominate a Senate candidate. Um. Good example, 507 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: very Trumpian guy. Blake Masters not a great candidate, no 508 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: previous experience, Young, hasn't raised that much money outside of 509 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: what Peter Teal gave him, and in the reality is 510 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: looking not competitive at all against Um, you know the 511 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: Senator Mark Kelly, who is in the John McCain seat 512 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: that's expiring, uh this November. So um, you know that 513 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: would have been a seat that I think mine McConnell 514 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: would have looked at and said, boy, with the right 515 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: candidate in a Republican year, we ought to be able 516 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: to pull that off. And there and many others Ohio, Pennsylvania, 517 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: you know where we have nominated inexperienced candidates with no 518 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: name I duh, who are significantly out of step with 519 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: the reality of the last election in and our election 520 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: deniers and and probably not likely to gain any votes 521 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: in uh swing districts with swing constituencies. Spell that out 522 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: for me a little more, Rick, election deniers, to what 523 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: extent is the focus in Republican primaries in competitive states 524 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: on relitigating the presidential race? Putting is that the main 525 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: issue putting Republicans at a disadvantage or less of an 526 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: advantage than the other Woods would have in control of 527 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: the Senate. Yeah, I think there are a lot of 528 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: different ways to look at it. But when you look 529 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: at you know, seven out of eight of the Senate 530 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: candidates that that that one nomination in uh in in 531 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: in the cycle, um, you know, have pledged to Donald 532 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: Trump that they believed the election was stolen. Uh. Uh. 533 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: Good track record for Donald Trump. Uh. Probably a bad 534 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: track record for Republicans in the general election, because when 535 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: you look at the general election numbers, you just don't 536 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: have that support. You know, the general election doesn't support 537 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: the idea that people agree that the election was stolen. 538 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: And frankly, with all the you know activity, Uh, inflation 539 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: and economic woes, COVID still around, all the things that 540 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: voters are dealing with. Litigating the election is not one 541 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: of them. And so people like Mitch McConnell they want 542 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, what's wrong with the Biden administration. 543 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: That's not what these candidates have been doing for the 544 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: last year as they won their their nomination. So, uh, 545 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,479 Speaker 1: they're behind the cycle there, behind the curve. They they 546 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 1: don't have uh, particularly good connections to a broad base 547 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: of donors. They tend to be underfunded, and I think 548 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: this is what Mitch McConnell was talking about, is that 549 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, these are these are generally weak candidates going 550 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: into a general election where we're supposed to have a 551 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: good cycle, you know, from the perspective of being a 552 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: party out of power UM during the first midterm. Well, Rick, 553 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned Blake Masters and nobody knows Arizona politics like Eugenie. 554 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: What other states do you think are on Mitch McConnell's 555 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: mind as he references candidate strength being an issue. You know, 556 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: nobody knows math better than Mitch McConnell, and quite frankly, 557 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: he has been warning that they would lose what is 558 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: supposed to be to Rick's point, a you know, a 559 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: really easy sort of walk in the park for them 560 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: this year if they didn't have candidates who could win. 561 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: And the reality is he's in a fifty fifty senate. 562 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: Republicans have to keep everybody they have and plus one. 563 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: And yet you want to talk about a challenge for him. 564 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: He has Wisconsin. And yet what are we seeing. We 565 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: are seeing a Republican out there who is vulnerable to 566 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: a newcomer Democrat. And Barnes is you know, still within 567 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: the margin of era, but up a little bit. And 568 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: so now what does Republicans do. They have to spend 569 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: money in Wisconsin. They don't want to do that. Go 570 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: over to Ohio. You know, they should be able to 571 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: get that. It's supposed to be a reliably fairly reliably 572 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: read state for them. And yet you've got Tim Ryan, 573 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: a Democrat running a pretty good campaign. Jade Vansum maybe vulnerable. 574 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: They've got to spend there, and it looks like they're 575 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: pulling some money out of Pennsylvania, another state they should 576 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: retain because Dr Oz wants to talk about veggie platters 577 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: and use French words and you know, all of these things, 578 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: and he's just not resonating. And you've got a guy 579 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: who's been not on the campaign trail up ten there. 580 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: So those are seats they should retain and then pick up, 581 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: and the pick up places they've got people like herschel Walker. 582 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: So you go down this list and it is highly problematic, 583 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: and Mitch McConnell is a hundred percent right. This should 584 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: be an easy year for them. It's not going to be. 585 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: And it is on the feet of candidates who are problematic. 586 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: And look at he can't blame this all on Trump, 587 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 1: he himself endorsed herschel Walker. Not only is herschel Walker 588 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 1: new to politics, but he has been, you know, pretty 589 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: much of a disaster so far in the campaign trail 590 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: for Republicans. Well in Pennsylvania. Can you blame Dr Oz 591 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: when you have to spend twenty on Crewetey, I can't 592 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: even say that word a funny. I think he was 593 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: trying to go go viral in a different way on that. 594 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: Before we continue on some of the key states, because 595 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: there's even more than that. There's so many interesting and 596 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 1: close senate races. I want to get the macro picture. Jennie, 597 00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: what happens if uh, say, Democrats somehow hold on to 598 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: the Senate, uh, and we see a narrow majority in 599 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: the House. This is seems like something that is increasingly possible. 600 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: Maybe the Republicans win the House, but it's not a 601 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,800 Speaker 1: huge wave. Maybe we still have a fifty fifty Senate. 602 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: If we have really narrow majorities in both chambers, do 603 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: they just not do anything in Congress for two years? 604 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 1: What are the repercussions? Yeah, we are in divided government 605 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: and there will be you know, I talked a lot 606 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: about deadlock and Democrats narrowly controlled at this point. But 607 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: if you have a and I agree with you, it 608 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: looks likely the Republicans, as Mitch McConnell said the other day, 609 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: it looks likely they do take the House. If Democrats 610 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: hold the Senate, it will be divided government. We're going 611 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: to couple that with an awful lot of investigations. We're 612 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: going to have House Republicans heading committees. They are going 613 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: to be investigating things like security on January six, They're 614 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: going to be investigating the Biden family. They're going to 615 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: be investigating what has been going on at the border. 616 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, they're going to be certainly instigating the FBI. 617 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah to that, the I R S. So that's going 618 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,240 Speaker 1: to be happening. You flick to the Senate side, Democrats 619 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: will be trying to conduct their business. Um. I think 620 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: the person with the hardest job in d C at 621 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,439 Speaker 1: that point won't necessarily be the president, but probably Kevin 622 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: McCarthy is speaker trying to hold that very raucous Uh. 623 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: You know what, he will have a very raucous caucus together, 624 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: and I think we're going to be have a lot 625 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: of frustrated people watching Washington, d C in deadlock running 626 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: into raucous caucus. Indeed, Uh, Rick, do they do you 627 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: anticipate that if Republicans take the House, they try to 628 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: impeach Joe Biden. You know, I don't know if they 629 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: try to impeach Joe Biden, but they'll certainly investigate him. 630 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: You know, we we still haven't seen really the resolution 631 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: of much of this legal woes of Donald Trump. Um. 632 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: Politics tends to be like physics, opposite and equal reactions. 633 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: So the fact that during a democratic administration he's been 634 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: under investigation by so much, they'll they'll do the same thing. Uh, 635 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: and and and so and then and that'll be their 636 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: only choice if the Democrats still control the Senate, because 637 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: simply nothing they do legislatively is gonna is gonna be 638 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: seeing the light of day over in the Senate. So 639 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: UH it may be the only option. Arguably, UH, it 640 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: would be much better for UH the investigation UH to 641 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: be diminished if you had Republican control of both Congresses, 642 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: because then they'll actually want to pass a lot of 643 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: legislation Senate to Biden to make him have to veto it, 644 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 1: and so there might be more productivity. But look, there 645 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: have been some really good bipartisan UH bills passed in 646 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: the last year and a half and and and so um, 647 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have thought that was gonna happen, you know, 648 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: prior to the start of the Congress. So um, maybe 649 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: there's hope for some action, but I wouldn't put much 650 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: money on it. I am curious as I look through 651 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: this list of races in the Senate that Democrats are 652 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: seeming to overperform if they somehow expand their Senate majority 653 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: the Democrats, Um, what does that do for Joe Mansion? 654 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: How much does he breathe a sigh of relief? How 655 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: much does that take the pressure off of him among 656 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: his colleagues in the Democratic Caucus. Genie, you know, I 657 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: think Joe Mansion rather likes how he has been, you know, 658 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: the most important Joe in d C besides our own 659 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew of course, um, in d C for this 660 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. But you know, so I'm 661 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: not sure Joe Mansion is gonna welcome, you know, being 662 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, Um, I think he'd preferred this way, and 663 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: it was fascinating. It wasn't more than a couple of 664 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: weeks ago he was asked about the Democrats retaining the 665 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: Senate and he wasn't particularly bullish on the idea. So 666 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: I think he likes to be this sort of independent 667 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: voice and to have the power that he's had, um, 668 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, and it has been a lot of power. 669 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,959 Speaker 1: For the last year year and a half. He has 670 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: been very, very influential. I think the most important Joe 671 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: in d C, aside from Joe Matthew, who's coming back 672 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: next week. Probably makes sense. Thank you both for your insights. 673 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: I wish we had another hour to talk about Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Wisconsin, etcetera. 674 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: But thank you again also to former Ambassador to Iraq, Turkey, Albania, 675 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: James Jeffrey Over at the Wilson Center, as well as 676 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: Jane Campbell, the president of the US Capital Historical Society, 677 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: giving us our Friday afternoon history lesson. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. 678 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: This has been a fun one. Joe Joe Matthews coming 679 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: back next week. This is Bloomberg.