1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: So every so often on this show we run into 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: things that we think are fun or fun thought experiments, 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: that would be stuff like flat Earth or flat Earth updates. 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: But we also run into things that are very real conspiracies, 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: that are very much cover ups, and that have incredibly 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: dangerous consequences for thousands or even millions of venison people. 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Today's classic episode is about just such an example. Flint, Michigan, 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: like you have a few years back, led us into 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: an investigation on something that even that continues even today. 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: It's lead, something as simple as lead, lead in the water, 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: lead poisoning all over the place. And as you said, 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: been six years have passed since we recorded this episode. 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: There are numerous updates all kinds of different infrastructure changes 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: that have been happening in the city of Flint, Michigan. 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot more to the story, but this is 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: what was happening almost exactly six years ago from UFOs two. 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: Psychic Powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: My name is my name is Noel. I am. Then 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: you argue and that makes this stuff they don't want 22 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: you to know. This podcast has been a long time coming. 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Why don't we open up the show with first things first? 24 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: Shut ut corner. Okay, it's shout out corner today. We'd 25 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: like to start out with a shout out to Tom's 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: sort Agin and everyone else listening in Norway. Wow. Yes, 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: and uh, we have a phrase here that I watched 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: a YouTube video on how to say it correctly. Um, 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: here we go, hi vordin garda. Hope that's at least 30 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: somewhere at least one of the three of us pronounced 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: it correctly, and with our three pronunciation skills combined, maybe 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: it made you know some kind of sense. I think 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be said at least three times faster 34 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: than that. But I don't, I don't, I don't know 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: how to do it. We sounded like a very drunken 36 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: person trying to speak Norwegian. Shout out to you, Tom, 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: who's next. We've got Nate Clump And Nate, you're probably 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: working on a bike right now while you're listening to this, 39 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: and we can only hope that this is the easiest 40 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: fix that you're gonna have all day, and you get 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: a little time to go do something for yourself. Consider it, 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: you know. I mean some people they like the long 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: processes so they can listen to more podcasts. Oh yeah, 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: you're right. I hope that the current bike that you're 45 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: working on is the hardest job you've ever done, so 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: you can finish this podcast and they end right, they 47 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: end together, just perfect, because that is very satisfying. It's 48 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: like when you pull up to your house and that 49 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: NPR story and you don't have to have that, you know. 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: It's like when you walked of the microwave and then 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: it stops right as you get right as you approach it. 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: Am I the only person who pretends them diffusing a 53 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: bomb at the last second. When I stop a microwave, 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: I always like to open the door with only a 55 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: single second remaining. That's just like an O C D thing. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: It's use and our final shout out for today's shout 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: Out Corner goes to Marie Ferminjured. I hope you're saying 58 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: that correctly and her mom Sabrina. We had a question 59 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: about this, right man. Yeah, Marie, we're wondering are you 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: really five years old? Or is there something you don't 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: want us or your mom to know. Yes, shout out 62 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: to you, Marie, and we hope you enjoy the food 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: that your mom has prepared for you. We we assume 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: that it is most nutritious and delicious. And with this 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: we end our shout Out Corner. Gosh, And that brings 66 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: us to today's episode. We were traveling from the Shout 67 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: Out Corner across the globe to taking you with us 68 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: to the Upper Peninsula or the Lower Peninsula, no, to Michigan, 69 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: to Michigan just by the Great Lakes, which is weird 70 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: because Michigan, if you look at it as a child, 71 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: I can see how it would be very confusing to 72 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: anyone to say, why is that one state? Yeah, most 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: of what I know about Michigan has come from two places. One, 74 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: the wonderful Sufian Stephens record Michigan, which is where he 75 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: grew up. And if you want to hear a really excellent, epic, 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: sweeping orchestral piece of music, that's a good place to start. 77 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: And every song has kind of like personifies a different 78 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: part of Michigan. That's where I learned about the Upper 79 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: Peninsula and all that um. And then the second place 80 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: I learned about it, which is very pertinent to our 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: topic today was the movie Roger and Me, which was 82 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: Michael Moore's first documentary, where he who you know you 83 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: grew up in Michigan Flint as well Um, and he 84 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: pursues the then CEO of the General Motors Company, Roger Smith, 85 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: to bring him take him to task for UM shutting 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: down all of the manufacturing facilities in Flint, which was 87 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: the heart of that city's economy, and it just, you know, 88 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: plummeted the city and its residents into poverty, and a 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: lot of the issues that we're talking about today likely 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: began back then in terms of infrastructure and things not 91 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: being you know, looked after, sure, as the money just 92 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: wasn't coming in anymore to the to the counties, into 93 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: the city, which is an unfortunate story in a country 94 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: where the manufacturing base was being off shore at such 95 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: a precipitous rate for a time. Yeah that you have 96 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: family in Michigan, Yeah, I have family. The A couple 97 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: of them live right outside of Detroit. I think they're 98 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: on the northern side of Detroit, but I'm not exactly positive. 99 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: And then I've got a whole another section that live 100 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: just north of Flint. So basically north and south of Flint, 101 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: so roughly twenty miles on one side and forty or 102 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: so miles on the other side. So they I spoke 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: to them this week actually, right before we're recording this, 104 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: just to kind of get some idea of what they're seeing, 105 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: if anything there, and both said that they haven't seen 106 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: really any effects. They didn't even learn about it until 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow talked about it on her show. So how 108 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: far how far outside of Flint are they? Twenty miles 109 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: north and then I think I don't know exactly, but 110 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: closer to Detroit on the south it's a different water system, Yeah, 111 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: completely different water system. And they don't know a lot 112 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: of people personally. One thing that my cousin said is 113 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: that Flint is such a place where you don't really 114 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: go to Flint if you're not from Flint. It's which 115 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: is a kind of a sad thing. Um, but when 116 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: you live in that community, you just live in that community, 117 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: and if you don't, you don't write not a big 118 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: tourist space. You're saying, sure, yeah for anything. Well, one 119 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: thing that Flint, Michigan has, unfortunately in common with many 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: other cities across the US, and this will be a 121 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: US centric podcast. One thing that all these cities have 122 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: in common is terrifyingly bad infrastructure situation. For quite a 123 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: few people. In the post World War two era, the 124 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: United States was seen as the shining beacon of success, 125 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: despite of course, the enormous internal problems the country had 126 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: with discrimination, prejudice on gender and ethnicity and creed and religion. 127 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: The thing was there was it was a booming economy 128 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: where someone could have what today would be seen as 129 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: maybe a minimum wage job, as still afforda house, maybe 130 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: one spouse stays at home, afford to raised kids. And 131 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: one other thing that was amazing was this infrastructure. The 132 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: fact that unlike so many other countries, you could hop 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: into the car that you bought probably was still an 134 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: ownership society back then, and you could just drive from 135 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: one coast to the other and then back right no 136 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: border controls unless you, you know, you go to Mexico 137 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: or Canada and there's this huge nation with these great roads, 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: and that is no longer the case. In recent years. 139 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: This thing has, this infrastructure thing, has declined dramatically. According 140 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: to the American Society of Civil Engineers, people who are 141 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: paid just to look at this stuff. One and nine 142 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: of the bridges in the US was rated structurally deficient 143 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: as A and that gave the bridges a score of 144 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: a C plus, which is actually one of the better 145 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: scores that the United States infrastructure got. Yeah, that's the 146 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: worst part relative to other parts of the U s 147 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure that's relatively good. They have a We have a 148 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: quote from them that the a s C said at 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: the time, quote, our infrastructure systems are failing to keep 150 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: pace with the current and expanding needs and investment. Infrastructu 151 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: sure is faltering, and there are signs of hope. The 152 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: a s c S report card that they issued gave 153 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: a slightly improved grade to infrastructure overall compared to two 154 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. But that's here's the problem. It's not 155 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: just a road or a bridge, you know, it's something 156 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: that politically is difficult for to get people to vote for. 157 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: No one wants to pay attacks for something like that, 158 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: until you know, the hurricane hits and the levies break 159 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: or the bridge collapses, and then everyone's looking to point 160 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: fingers in place blame, right, why didn't you do this? 161 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: Why didn't you Why didn't you make us vote the 162 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: way you wanted has to vote, I mean, and it 163 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: makes sense because it is unpopular when it comes to 164 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: getting the job done. No one wants a lane of 165 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: of you know, busy intersection closed off. No one wants 166 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: to be late to work because there's you know, work 167 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: being done on the you know, the road they drive on. 168 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: No one wants to you know, have their street dug 169 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: up and pipes you know, ripped out, and you know, 170 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: and we're moving on obviously to you know the big 171 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: subjective today, which is water systems. And you know, you 172 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: got to think about these systems that were in place, 173 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: you know, just long long ago, and we've had to 174 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: kind of just keep preparing and patching and fixing these 175 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: things little by little because can you imagine what it 176 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: would take to just put up, let's just put a 177 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: whole new water system into our you know, metropolitan city, right, 178 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: especially when we consider how funding arrives those things we 179 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: won't get too won't get too bogged down in those details. 180 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: But just for just for some perspective, the the Infrastructure 181 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: report Card that we're mentioning projects that water, the funding 182 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: we need to safely restructure the US water system is 183 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: gonna total out to a hundred and twenty six billion. 184 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: We have forty two billion of that and these are 185 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: two thousand ten dollars, so appreciate the inflation there, and 186 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: that means that the Uncle Sam is eighty four billion 187 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: dollars short. On an unpopular thing. At the dawn of 188 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: the twenty one century, most of our drinking much of 189 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: our drinking water infrastructure is nearing the end of its life. 190 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: These things, because you know, these things are constantly in 191 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: an eroding environment. Water is moving all the time. A 192 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: lot of stuff is really old, back before we understood 193 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: the safety implications. So we have some good and bad news. 194 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: So there's an estimated two forty thousand water main breaks 195 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: per year in the US alone, assuming that every single 196 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: pipe would need to be replaced, the cost over the 197 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: coming decades could reach more than a trillion dollars. And 198 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: that's according to the American water Works Association, which is crazy. 199 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: But there's good news. Yeah, Well, the good news is 200 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: that in a lot of places in the US, the 201 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: drinking water that you're going to get from a fountain 202 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: that is meant for human consumption is pretty high. Yeah. Overall, 203 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: it's pretty good stuff. Even though the pipes and the 204 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: mains that are running underneath the city and throughout it 205 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: are are pretty old, frequently more than a hundred years old. 206 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: And when they're that old, they need replacement, especially depending 207 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: on what they're made from. Like there are some older 208 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: wooden pipes that still exists. There are some pipes that 209 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: may or may not contain a little bit of lead 210 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: in them. Uh, there are huge issues with that. And 211 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: this is because the water is treated, right, I mean right, 212 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: the water. The water treatment system is one of the 213 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: biggest parts. And the good thing about this is that 214 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: getting sick from drinking the water is a pretty rare 215 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: thing in this country. Right, That's where we're gonna That's 216 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: That's a great way to set up this point because 217 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: for quite a few people in the US, traveling to 218 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: another country is is difficult and it's expensive. You know, 219 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: they're they're two oceans on either side. And as a result, 220 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: sometimes in the international community, people who live in this 221 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: country are accused of not having an entirely realistic understanding 222 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: of how how stuff works, although I hate to say 223 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: it that way in other in other parts of the world. 224 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: And with that being said, you know, one one of 225 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: the things that I think escapes a lot of people. 226 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: Is just how profoundly important safe water is to any civilization. 227 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: You know, there are places around the world where you're 228 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: just not gonna drink the water. And it's not it's 229 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: not because you are not acclimated to bacteria or whatever 230 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: is in there. It's because no one can drink the water. 231 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: And this, this sort of sanitation is a huge deal, 232 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: and we are conscious of that, folks. But we are 233 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: also conscious of the increasingly deteriorating system in here in 234 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: the US. So we have examples for you. In October 235 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: two twelve, Hurricane sand not large coastal sewage plants offline 236 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: and caused nearly forty two million cubic meters that's eleven 237 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: billion gallons of sewage to go into the water supply. Ah, 238 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: what do you do from from you know, can you 239 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: imagine being the people tasked to fix that? All right, guys, 240 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: let's pump this out of here. Well, it's water, and 241 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: now it's just got sewage in it. Huh. In January, 242 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: a storage tank in West Virginia that held the chemical 243 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: used in coal production leaked into the Elk River, and 244 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: it's billed an estimated forty cubic meters, which is ten 245 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: thousand gallons just upstream of the water intake for Charleston, 246 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: the state capital there. Now here's the problem. Almost three 247 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were without tap water for at least 248 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: four days when that happened. Now you have to think 249 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: I've been without I think you guys may have gone 250 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: through this. Here in Atlanta somewhere, we've been without tap 251 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: order for a few days because of some small thing 252 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: or a main leak or something like that. It's crazy 253 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: how much of a wrench it throws into your world 254 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: when you don't have running potable water. Actually in my 255 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: hometown in Augusta, Georgia and North Augusta, which is the 256 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: on the border of Georgia and South Carolina, but it's 257 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: like right over the bridge, they're really closely on one another. 258 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Um they have been having all these boil advisories lately 259 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: and they haven't quite determined what the problem is, and 260 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: they keeps coming up. It's very strange. And I mean 261 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: even just think about that, just like adding that step, 262 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: having to boil your water, and then when you gotta 263 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: cool it again, I guess you ice it or would 264 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: you wait to leave it out? And put it in 265 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: the fridge. I don't know what, and it just seems 266 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: like a whole You know, you go out and you 267 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: buy privatized water from someplace in a in a jug 268 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: or in and it's not cheap. So I don't know, 269 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. So one of the big points that 270 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: we're obviously making here, folks, is that while the situation 271 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: in Flint, Michigan may have been one of the first 272 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: to really garner national attention, it's not really unique. It's 273 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: not especially exceptional in terms of substandard infrastructure. These kind 274 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: of these kind of breaks are happening in in the 275 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: modern age. This is not necessarily an isolated incident. And 276 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: we're going to dive into, maybe that's a poor choice 277 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: of words, the situation in Flint, Michigan. After a word 278 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. We're back in Michigan. 279 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: We're back in Flint, Michigan, specifically where things started to 280 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: go wrong in recent months. You have no doubt heard 281 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: about the crisis with lead contamination in the city of Flint, Michigan. 282 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: We have a little bit of a timeline that we 283 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: can walk you through here. In two thousand eleven, Michigan 284 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: takes over the Flint budget. They take over the town's 285 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: budget because there were years of rampant poverty spurred in 286 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: part by the loss of auto manufacturing. Like you mentioned earlier, 287 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: no Flint is in a financial state of emergency. Michigan 288 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: takes over. And when they take over, the governor at 289 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: the time, Rick Snyder, appoints an emergency financial manager and 290 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: this manager was, according to a congressman named Dan Kildee, 291 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: this manager was hired to do one thing. I'll actually 292 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: read the quote. You had one job, man, one job. 293 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: Simply do one thing and one thing only, and that's 294 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: cut the budget at any cost. Yikes. So one option 295 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: for a budget cutting thing is to stop paying Detroit 296 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: for that Sweet Lake Huron water and start using water 297 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,719 Speaker 1: from the Flint River because that's safe, right, And so 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: they do a study. This is all the two thousand eleven. 299 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: The study finds that for Flint River water to be 300 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: considered drinkable, it would need to be treated with an 301 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: anti corrosion agent, and water treatment will cost the state 302 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: about a hundred dollars a day. Adding this treatment, by 303 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: the way, in retrospect, would have present prevented of the 304 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: town's later problems. So these complaints are mounting over the years. 305 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: Let's let's fast forward to a little bit more recently. 306 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: In two thousand fourteen, April, Flint officials, to combat these 307 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: rumors about just how terrible water is in Flint, they 308 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: publicly drink the river water in front of the media. Yeah, 309 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: the mayor right right, Yes, Okay, So at this point, 310 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: the mayor's drink the water on television. Everyone's you know, 311 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: maybe not everyone, but it looks like it's gonna be okay. 312 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: We're gonna switch over to the Flint River. We're running 313 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: it through a treatment plant. It's gonna be okay. So 314 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: in April, that happens. Now, this is meant to be 315 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: just a temporary solution, right, This isn't there. The idea 316 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: isn't to stay on the Flint River water forever. I mean, 317 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: are they trying how how are they going to raise 318 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: the money to pay Detroit? Yeah, this is just a 319 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: budget cutting move. If it's a budget cutting move, So 320 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: eventually they're going to get the water from Huron, from 321 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: Lake Huron, which they're right next to. I mean, it's 322 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: not right next to it, it's not far away. So 323 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: they're thinking maybe two years they can make a state 324 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: runs supply line. Problem is that in comparison to Lake 325 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: Huron's water, h Virginia tech researchers find that Flint River, 326 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: the Flint River water supply is nineteen times more corrosive. 327 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: So then in May is when the discolored, bad tasting, 328 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: bad smelling water starts actually making its way into Flint 329 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: residents homes via their their faucets. This stuff is brown, yeah, 330 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: this stuff is objectively brown. This stuff looks like soup 331 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: and not not you know, not a good soup, none, 332 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: a nice biscu or something. And it's not one of 333 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: those things where maybe there's a little junk in the 334 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: system where you turn on your faucet if you haven't 335 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: turned it on in a long time, and it kind 336 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: of goes out and then you get the nice water. 337 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: You can get a little bit of rust or something 338 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: like that, and then it clears out. No, it's not 339 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: like that. But not to mention the fact that the 340 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: city officials continue telling the residents it's fine, okay, it's fine, 341 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: no attention to the soup in the water. Go well, 342 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: And and then there are there are large swasters of 343 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: the population that have to continue using this water because 344 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: they cannot afford to have another water source, at least 345 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: in some way. Well, there's not another water source. They'd 346 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: have to buy bottle That's what I'm saying. So they 347 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: don't have they don't have the means to go out 348 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: and buy bottled water. So we're talking like not even 349 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: a boil advisory and into place at this stage. No, 350 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: the water, the water is fine. None is the party line. 351 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: In January twelve of two thousand, if Team Detroit steps 352 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: in to offer help, notably their water and sewage department, 353 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: says Flint people of Flint financial tycoon or tyrant of Flint, 354 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: we will reconnect the water supply and wave the connection fee, 355 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: which was four million dollars at least per the Governor's 356 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: Office of Detroit. But what happens next? Remember that emergency 357 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: manager Jerry Ambrose. Yeah, he said, no, we're good guys, 358 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: and and he was just talking about the additional cost 359 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: that would be involved if they wanted to take that 360 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: water from Detroit. And I think they were looking at 361 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: around a million dollars a month or something like that. 362 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: Um and they're also saying the city itself doesn't have 363 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: a connection directly to that Detroit system, since that that 364 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: was I guess sold by Flint as part of some 365 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: some deal that they were making with another county right 366 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: exactly to Genesee County. I believe it's called. So there 367 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: they are. And at this point I want to say, 368 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to demonize Ambrose too much because it's 369 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: got to be a tough thing. There's no money. They're 370 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: asking you to spend straw into gold. There asking you 371 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: to make soup from rocks. And you should have listened 372 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: to our alchemy episode. He should have. Yeah, he should 373 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: listen to the alchemy episode. He would have learned something. 374 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: That's when the e p A starts talking about lead. Uh. 375 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: The e p A and Michigan Department of Environmental Quality say, hey, 376 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of lead in here. There's 377 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: an unhealthy amount of lead, a dangerous amount of lead. 378 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: And that's in February, a little more than a year ago. 379 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: So then in July there is an internal memo in 380 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: the e p A Vironal Protection Agency that gets leaked, 381 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: and this memo shows the high levels of lead in 382 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: a particular case, one woman's home, high enough that her 383 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: son actually got lead poisoning. And this is according to 384 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: Michigan Radio dot org um and the site also said 385 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: that the memo was leaked by the A C l 386 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: U who actually reached out contacted the person who wrote 387 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: the memo. At this point, of course, the party line 388 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: is still the water is fine. The water is fine, folks, 389 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: water is fine. What do you want it to be 390 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: gluten free? What do you ask? Then I think it 391 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: was the regional EPA manager who came forward and said, 392 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: and look, you guys, it's too it's too early to 393 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: make any conclusions, especially based on this one memo. So 394 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: we're just gonna continue continuing on right exactly. So then 395 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: let's go to August, Virginia tech researchers launched their own 396 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: investigation and they find uh, they find these elevated levels 397 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: of lead as well, and they go public. Then in 398 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: September of that same year, the Department of Environmental Quality 399 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: looked at the research Virginia was doing and disputed the 400 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: claims about corrosion and uh blood poisoning or leaching, at 401 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: least specifically. And then there's actually a pediatrician, Dr Monahana 402 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: A Tisha, who is seeing these elevated levels of lead 403 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: and children from certain parts of Flint seeing them double triple. Uh. 404 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: And here's a quote from a very helpful CNN dot 405 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: com timeline that we are pulling from a lot of 406 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: these details. Uh. Quote. When my research team and I 407 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: saw that it was getting into children, and when we 408 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: knew the consequences, that's when I think we began not 409 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: to sleep. So in October of the governor at the 410 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: time announces a plan to reconnect Flint to Detroit's water. 411 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: Flint's water switches back to Lake Huron. However, by then, 412 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: the corrosion, that's that's the issues. So the pipes are 413 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: old and the pipes are lead pipes. That was not 414 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: as much of a problem when there was a less 415 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: corrosive water source. Given that the Flint River was so 416 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: much more corrosive than Lake Huron. What they find is 417 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: that there's still going to be elevated levels of lead. So, 418 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: in other words, because of the higher corrosiveness of the 419 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: water in the more polluted water source, which was the 420 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: Flint River, it's causing the lead in the pipes to 421 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: actually leach into the water itself to come detached. It 422 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: could be the cleanest water ever that flows through it 423 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: now and it doesn't matter. You're gonna have some some issues, yeah, exactly. 424 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: But you know, if you're using this uh more polluted 425 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: water that has different, you know, materials in it that 426 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: could that could accelerate this process, that's when things become 427 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: pretty dire. At this point, you know, a lot of 428 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the there's really no turning back. I mean, it's very 429 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: very difficult to reverse. Damage has already been done. And 430 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: these Virginia Tech researchers actually continue to find elevated lead 431 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: in Flint water, even though they're at lower levels, but 432 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: they are still much higher than they should be. The 433 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: next month, the federal lawsuit is filed by the residents 434 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: of Flint, Michigan. They filed the lawsuit against the governor, 435 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: the state, uh the city, and several other defendants. They 436 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: say that the Department of Environmental Quality was not, in 437 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: fact treating Flint water with an anti corrosive agent. That's 438 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: a violation of federal law. This means that, as Nolan 439 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: I point out earlier, the water was eroding, the iron 440 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: water mains turning at brown. About half of the lines 441 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: to Flint homes are made of lead, and this this 442 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: is exactly what happened. That's our that's our sequence of events. 443 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: That's what they allege in the lawsuit. And uh, you know, 444 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: this doesn't happen all the time in lawsuits, of course, 445 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: but it turns out that they were telling the truth. Uh. 446 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: The chief of the Department of Environmental Quality quits December, 447 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: so these things happened in just month after month. Yeah. Yeah. 448 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: Then as we get into sixteen, the governor reached out 449 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: for the Federal Emergency Management Agencies helped FEMA. Are good 450 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: old friends at FEMA, and um you activating the Michigan 451 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: National Guard actually help get water bottled water to people 452 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: who were in need. And to me, the most mind 453 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: boggling element of all of this is that there were 454 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: multiple points along this process where they could have started 455 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: to to mitigate some of these problems, but instead all 456 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: you see is nope, it's all good, we didn't do 457 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: anything wrong. Everything's fine. You know, it's all about just 458 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: defending that initial decision, that cost cutting decision to change 459 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: the water source, because in politics, you know, somebody wants 460 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: to get a pat on the back for saving some 461 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: money and doing the right thing politically speak. Came not necessarily, 462 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, for the people of Flint, and you know, 463 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure their hearts were in the right place. 464 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: But when you realize you've made a mistake of this magnitude, 465 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: you gotta come clean, right, So slate rights, That's our 466 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: question for today. What is the stuff they don't watch 467 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: to know? What is the cover up? What is the corruption? 468 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: Is there any? And the answer is unambiguously yes, yes. Uh. 469 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: Michigan new last year that Flint's water might be poisoned, 470 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: but decided we'll just keep this on the hush. Let's 471 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: just keep this on the down low. You like how 472 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm going into my quiet story voice. Yeah, so jumping 473 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: around a little bit. But in uh, in January of 474 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, when as as you had said, Matt, 475 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 1: when Governor Snyder came clean about the dangerous levels of 476 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: lead and flint and called it a state of emergency. 477 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: It appears that a study released in September of concluded 478 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: that the change put Flint children at and I'll quote 479 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: here a significantly increased risk of lead poisoning. Before we 480 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: go further, let's talk about why lead poisoning is a 481 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: big deal. So, lead poisoning, which also has a couple 482 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: of interesting names painters, colic and plumbism, like plumber but 483 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: plumbs muh. It's it's a it's something that happens when 484 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: you have increased amounts of lead in your body. Lead 485 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: interferes with a lot of the processes that our bodies 486 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: depend on, and it can damage your heartbones and testines, kidneys, 487 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: your reproductive your nervous system. It's all kinds of bad news. 488 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: Here's one of the big things. It's very, very dangerous 489 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: to expose children to this. Children of vulnerable because their 490 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: nervous systems are still developing. So studies show that it 491 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: can cause significan again, learning disorders that are permanent, as 492 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: well as behavioral disorders. In severe cases, it can cause seizures, 493 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: and in the worst case, it can cause death. So 494 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: for this kind of exposure, what we're hearing is permanent 495 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 1: damage done due to a cover up. Essentially, it seems 496 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: to show also, according to the a c l U 497 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: that the Department of Environmental Quality rigged test results in 498 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: the water in the summer of after reports about problems 499 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: had already been published. They cite the work of the 500 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: Virginia tech folks were mentioned, who were headed by a 501 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: guy named Mark Edwards, an engineering professor who studied Flint closely. 502 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: So according to uh Dr Edwards, the city officials broke 503 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: federal laws by failing to collect water samples from homes 504 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: at the highest risk, and they also failed to conduct 505 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: follow up tests as required on homes that had high levels, 506 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: and the d e Q, the Department Environmental Quality officials 507 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: who are supervising this, according to Dr Edwards, made a 508 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: move to reject two samples collected by the city, samples 509 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: that as just maybe there is a coincidence, would have 510 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: pushed the test results above a level The city was 511 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: a prior to alert residents. So it seems that it 512 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: seems that management already knew for lack of a better word, 513 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: and cooperated with one another two cover this up or 514 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: to delay the release of the news. What this all 515 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: means is that um oh, and there's not an emergency 516 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: manager now that ended in April. But what this all 517 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: means is that this could potentially be a criminal case. 518 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you guys, who, yeah, should 519 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: someone be prosecuted? Who I mean? I would say it 520 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: would be the guy that that resigned the e Q 521 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: and the e P A regional adema. But it's so 522 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: tricky because I mean, you have to prove at what 523 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: stage they knew, you know, that they were not acting 524 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: in good faith, that they were literally acting outside of 525 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: the scope of their job and obfuscating you know, facts, 526 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: I mean, And that's that's really hard to prove, isn't it. 527 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's strange because we do function in a 528 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: court of public opinions so often nowadays, but for it 529 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: to be rule of law, there there has to be 530 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: a provable trail, approvable paper trail, audio conversations. I guess 531 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: Skype calls if anyone is still foolish enough to conduct 532 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: an important conversation on Skype. Sorry Skype, but you know 533 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: the deal, I would, yeah, because most of the people 534 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: who made incorrect decisions here probably had no idea that 535 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: what they were doing was going to lead to a 536 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: domino effect to where in the end children are getting 537 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: lead poisoning, a pretty heavy lead poison, right. They probably 538 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: thought they were making small, small level decisions to save money, 539 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: if not cutting corners a bit, right at least, that's 540 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: what in my opinion, that's what I'm seeing, And it's 541 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: a it's a really difficult situation because we know that, 542 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: you know, Flint being one of the most um financially, 543 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, distraught areas in Michigan, which as a state 544 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: has some real serious problems. I mean Detroit, you know, 545 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: declared bankruptcy and they're only just now really starting to 546 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: rebuild and pull themselves out of that after all these 547 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: worries they were going to have to sell off the 548 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: contents of their art museum and you know, things like 549 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: that is to stay afloat. And as we know, Flint 550 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: has a real history of dealing with these issues ever 551 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: since Roger and Me, which was in nine um, that 552 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: is when they lost a lot of their manufacturing jobs. 553 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure I have a feeling that some 554 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: of that could have come back, but you know, you know, 555 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: it's never the same, and we know Flint has been 556 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: having these kinds of problems for a long time. And 557 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: for you know, to be a member of the government 558 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: in a city like this where you're you know, Hamstrong, 559 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: with lack of funds, lack of you know, really power, 560 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: having to defer to you know, Detroit and say help us, 561 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very difficult situation to find yourself. 562 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: And I do not envy any of those people, and 563 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you gotta make hard decisions and sometimes 564 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,959 Speaker 1: you mess up. But if they we're covering their own 565 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, this is took us as trying to protect 566 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: their own jobs, to pick their own jobs, you know, 567 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: which compared to some of the folks that this really affected, 568 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: pretty cushy. You know, I'm glad you bring up that point, 569 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: because this takes us beyond Flint. This is the this 570 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: is the larger stuff they don't want you to know. 571 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: For today's episodes. There's an amazing book written called Lead 572 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: Wars by authors David Rosner and a guy named Gerald 573 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: Marc A. Witz. And in read Wars, they note that, yes, 574 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: Flint's problems are being addressed. It's in the national media now. However, 575 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: whether or not Flint has highlighted the problems with lead 576 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 1: in pipes, there's a bigger thing. Lead is a neurotoxin 577 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: and it can be found on walls, in the soil, 578 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: in the air, and even a small exposure can again 579 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: impair brain development. It can cause hyperactivity, dyslexia, a d 580 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: d i Q loss. So when we talked about how 581 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: far back we knew lead was bad for you, Rosina 582 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: argues that it goes back to the nineteen tens, in 583 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties when doctors were documenting children who had 584 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: lead on their fingers as a dust and put their 585 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: hands in their mouth and began going into seizures. You 586 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: don't need a lot of this stuff, but the average 587 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: can of paint from the nineteen nineties to nineteen fifty 588 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: contained like lead carbonate, which is so and it's all 589 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: it's slap dashed all over. Uh, the walls of older places. 590 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: There were advertising things that said lead as much cleaner 591 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: than wallpaper, like how slick it is use lead. Uh. 592 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: There was even a scandal in d C about lead 593 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: and drinking. And it's tough for us to predict how 594 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: far this will go. We do know that it over 595 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: like that it it tends to affect people in disadvantaged 596 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: communities minorities more than it affects other parts of the population. 597 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: I mean. And there are safeguards in place, like I know, 598 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: for example, when I bought my home um several years ago, 599 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: they have to disclose you know that because of the 600 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: age of the home, that that's possible that lead paint 601 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: was used. And then you have to do things to 602 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: ensure that there's no lead paint remaining. I mean, you 603 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: know that's up to you, I guess, but they let 604 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: you know that, hey, there's as possible as lead paint here. 605 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: It reminds me of you know, the high school that 606 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: I went to. There was a period where they realized, oh, 607 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of as bestuff still in this building, 608 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: and it was a huge deal or they had to 609 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: like bring in these crews and pull this stuff out. 610 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: But like you said, I mean a lot of these 611 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: these folks are renting. You know, maybe their landlords haven't 612 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,479 Speaker 1: taken the steps to do some of things, or maybe 613 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: they got around it somehow. What what Rosner Markowitz said 614 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 1: that I recommend highly this interview they did with MPR 615 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: and the book itself, they found an active conspiracy by 616 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: the lead industry. And I know it might sound ridiculous 617 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: for me to say big lead, but that's exactly what 618 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: it was. That that was similar to, uh, some of 619 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: the stuff the tobacco industry did. When the carcinogenic effects 620 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: of cigarettes and dip and all this other stuff came 621 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: to light, the lead industry went around the country saying 622 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: telling doctors, yeah, having completely proved the lead was the 623 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: cause of children going into convulsions and kids dying. So 624 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: you need to do some more souphistic degated studies. You 625 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: need depths, rays, you need like a variety of other 626 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: techniques or whatever. But the problem is this led to 627 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: a vastly underestimated number of lead poisoning cases because if 628 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: they were not recognized, it looked like maybe that a 629 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: high fever or another kind of thing. But what the 630 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: lead industry did to take this conflation of symptoms and 631 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: use it to their advantage was to say lead poisoning 632 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: was overstated and the doctors were misdiagnosing children. And now 633 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: that leads us to a situation we have today where 634 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: an infrastructure is in danger and where where if something 635 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: unexpected or bad happens, the results can quickly get out 636 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: of control. So, listeners out there, what do you think, 637 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: I mean, what where do you who? Where do you 638 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: think that the responsibility falls in situations like these? Are 639 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: there any folks out there that are in Flint right now? 640 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: I know, Matt you said you have family there. We'd 641 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: love to hear from anyone that's experienced this stuff firsthand. Um, 642 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: because it is like you said, ultimately a problem that's 643 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: bigger than Flint. But Flint really puts a spotlight on 644 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: what can happen when these aged aging infrastructures go. You know, 645 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: let our left unrepaired and the continued to deterior rate. Yeah, 646 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: or are you in Cleveland and someone in your family 647 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: is dealing with lead poisoning from government housing on the 648 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: walls there from the lead paint. And that's the end 649 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or 650 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: questions about this episode, you can get into contact with 651 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: us in a number of different ways. One of the 652 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: best is to give us a call or number is 653 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K. 654 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that, you can send 655 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at 656 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 657 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: to know is a production of I Heart Radio. For 658 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart 659 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 660 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: favorite shows.