1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Smantha. 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you productive iHeartRadio, 3 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: and once again we are so happy to do another 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: female first, and that. 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: Means we are happy to welcome back Eves. 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Welcome Eve. Hey, Hey, I'm so happy to have you. 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: I didn't do my introduction like I normally do. I 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 2: was gonna say intrepid international Eaves. I had already planned it. 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Well, thank you. But you have been 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: doing a lot of traveling. What's been going on with you? 11 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: Eves? Yeah? I just. 12 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Twenty four hours ago, maybe somewhere between twenty four hours 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: and forty eight hours ago go I left New Delhi, India, 14 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 3: and now I am in Cape Town, South Africa. And honestly, 15 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 3: you know, I was thinking that I haven't gotten the 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: chance to mourn leaving India, because I haven't gotten a 17 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: chance to feel sad about not being in India anymore, 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: because truly I loved India. I'm not good at picking favorites. 19 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 3: I don't really care to pick favorites because I like 20 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: different things for different reasons and it's just really hard 21 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: for me to make those decisions. But I do like 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: India's really up there. For me, like, I had a 23 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: great experience there because I felt like, I feel like 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: I got to experience so many different parts of the spectrum, 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: and I got to experience it with people who lived 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: in the places that I was in, which was in 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: Utra Khand, which is in the northeast. It's a state 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: in the northeast. I was very near the Himalayas. And 29 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 3: I also got to experience New Delhi, which is a huge, huge, huge, 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: huge city. Twenty something million people there, I believe, or 31 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: like thirty million people something like that. And I got 32 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 3: to meet people who lived in those that place too, 33 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: and people who were there from other parts of Indian 34 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,119 Speaker 3: than people who were there from outside of India who 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: had you know, Indian ethnic origins. So I like, I 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: feel like I got to experience a huge breath of it. 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: And I was fed a lot of food, and I 38 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: learned a lot about hospitality in cooking and sharing meals 39 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: and like serving during my time there, because there was 40 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: a period when I was at a religious spiritual philosophical 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 3: retreat basically, and I was fed three meals a day, 42 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: and I was that food was prepared by some of 43 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: the other people who were there, and I shared these 44 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: meals with the other the nuns basically who lived there. 45 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: And there is a lot, there's so much. Anytime I 46 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: go somewhere, I learned I take something about hospitality with me, 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: like the way people treat their guests, the way they 48 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: serve them. And I mean, I couldn't do anything on 49 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: my own. The moment I started sniffling, I like, all 50 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 3: of the remedies were suggested to me, given to me. 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: I was given this thing of clothes. Put these clothes 52 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: in your mouth, hold it here. I was given more milk, 53 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: don't come, don't wake up this early, don't worry about 54 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: doing this. Do you want this? Do you need this? 55 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: Are you okay? Given this arivedic remedy I was giving? 56 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 3: Do you want these pills? I was like, oh my, 57 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: do you know the feeling of being overwhelmed with care? 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: It's like it's a great feeling because it makes you feel. 59 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 3: So special and important. And then it's also like, oh 60 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: my God, like, am I like this to people? 61 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: Can I be like this to you know? Am I 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: this helpful? I want to be like that? 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: Because you know, I was talking to them about it, 64 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: and they were saying one of the other people who 65 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: was there, who was Indian, was like, yeah, like I 66 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: do this and my child is like, they hate, they 67 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 3: hate how She was like, I'm sorry for how you 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 3: know how how much we were trying to take care 69 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 3: of you, but it's just like how how I do things, 70 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: how we do things. She was like, my child doesn't 71 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: like it at all, That's what she said. She's like, 72 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 3: my child doesn't love it. So you know, I had 73 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: a great experience in all ways. And I got the nice, chill, 74 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: tranquil side of meditating and looking at the mountains, and 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: I got the other side being in the hectic chaos 76 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: of New Delhi traffic with getting into accidents and nobody 77 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 3: saying anything. 78 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: It's like just another day, didn't matter. 79 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 4: It's all yellow to each other and move on. 80 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: Even if that like one of our drivers just like 81 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: barely glanced in the rear view mirror and didn't say 82 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 3: anything at all. 83 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: This is just normal. So yeah, loved it, honestly loved it. 84 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and I do really relate to the 85 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: I experienced that a lot when I leave a place 86 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: and you're just so sad to have left it because 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 2: it was so beautiful. And you know, there was so 88 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: much more to see and do, so I get mourning 89 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: a place. And I also when I was in China, 90 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: I had a I wasn't good with chopsticks in the beginning. 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: I'm great with them now listeners, but in the beginning, 92 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: and people. 93 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: Were concerned for me that I wouldn't eat enough. 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: So this older Chinese woman took me to a bakery, 95 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: an American style bakery, and was like, you need cake. 96 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: It was so sweet. 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: It was like such a such a funny she can't 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: use chip, Let's get her American cake, Like thank you, 99 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: thank you. 100 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: It's nice. 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: It is nice to see that kind of hospitality and 102 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: people wanting to take care of you. 103 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, we're so. 104 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: Glad you could make this workout as you all through 105 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: all your travels. And I am extremely excited about who 106 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: we're talking about today because we have said before we've 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: shared our thoughts on bugs, and I mentioned that maybe 108 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: we should have somebody and I would like to talk 109 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: about some insects some more. And here we go. 110 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: So who are we talking about today? Eves? 111 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 3: Today we're talking about doctor Margaret S. Collins and the 112 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: insect that we were talking about today that she largely 113 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 3: focused on was one you might not expect. 114 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: I'll save it for later. 115 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: You'll get the nice surprise of which bug it is 116 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 3: that she focused on. 117 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: But yes, I had that in mind. 118 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: How we previously talked about how it would be cool 119 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: to talk about an entomologist, and I had never thought 120 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: about bringing one onto the show, So I appreciate that 121 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: you gave that suggestion. So, doctor Margaret S. Collins was 122 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: the first black American woman to be awarded a PhD 123 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: that involved entomology at a major university. She was the 124 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: first entomologist at Florida A and M University, and she 125 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: was the third Black American woman zoologist. But she herself 126 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: described herself as an ecologist, and her story is really fascinating. 127 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: And I really liked the way that she arrived at 128 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 3: her work in the field. 129 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: So excited to talk about it. Who I am too? 130 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: So shall I get into the history? Yes? Yes, yes. 131 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: So she was born Margaret James in Institute, West Virginia, 132 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: on September fourth, nineteen twenty two, and her parents were 133 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: Luella and Rollins James, and she was the fourth of 134 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: five children. Her dad got his bachelor's and master's degree 135 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: from West Virginia State College and Tuskegee Institute, and he 136 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: worked at Tuskegee for a period, then he went to 137 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 3: teach vocational agriculture at West Virginia State. And Luella, Margaret's mother, 138 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: she wanted to become an archaeologist, but there weren't a 139 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: ton of opportunities for education, and she went to West 140 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: Virginia State but she didn't finish to get her degree. 141 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: But Luella was a big reader. And here's a quote 142 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: from Margaret. She said, quote, My parents collected an impressive 143 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: library for their income level, and a regular feature of 144 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: the evenings would be one member reading aloud to the 145 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 3: rest of the family, with the youngest on the lap 146 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: of the reader. In my case, I learned to read 147 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 3: by following the of the reader. 148 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: Just the end of the quote. 149 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: When Margaret was six years old, she was allowed to 150 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: check out books from the West Virginia State College library. 151 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 3: And according to Margaret, she grew up in the woods 152 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 3: in the barn. Two of her favorite books in her 153 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 3: childhood were Two Little Savages and Rolf in the Woods 154 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 3: by Ernest Thompson CN. And she would go outside and 155 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: collect interesting critters, what she called interesting critters, and when 156 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: she started bringing home these creatures, her dad would encourage 157 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: her to identify them in his books. And here's another 158 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: quote from Margaret. I had access to an array of 159 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 3: books on natural history, including the massive volumes of the 160 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 3: Nature Library. My favorite books in the series were Rogers 161 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: The Shell Book, dip Mars The Reptile Book, and Jordan 162 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 3: and Everman's The Fish Book, each of which contained English 163 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 3: technical terms as well as Latin names. She also learned 164 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: from her neighbors. There was a doctor named doctor Sinclair 165 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 3: who let her come to his house and read as 166 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 3: much as she wanted to, and his mother was previously enslaved, 167 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: and she talked to Margaret about things like making soap 168 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 3: and how to use medicinal plants. Margaret also spent time 169 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: with John Matthews, who was a scholar of patient and 170 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 3: African literature, and Margaret later talked about the importance of 171 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 3: her experience with books and how much she read them 172 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: when she was young. Early on, she said this, I 173 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: suspect that plenty of books in early unrestricted reading were 174 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: quite important. Hearing about scientists doing adventurous things and reading 175 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: the works of naturalists William Beebe were probably important. Perhaps 176 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: the biggest influence of all was contact with individuals who 177 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 3: found the discipline of biology fulfilling. Enthusiasm sometimes behaves like 178 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: an infectious agent. So I really loved this part of 179 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 3: her story of how her outside time is interacting with 180 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: her reading selfishly because of my own personal interests, like 181 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 3: I love outdoors things, I also love books, and both 182 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: of those things were very formative in my childhood. And 183 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: I think it's really cool that she had access to 184 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: those books like so at such a young age, and 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: that her parents encouraged her to do it, because I 186 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 3: could see one seeing these things in a book but 187 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 3: being totally out of touch with how that showed up 188 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: in the real world, or like going outside and playing 189 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: with things but not necessarily knowing how they worked, not 190 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: knowing about ecology, you know, not knowing about environments or ecosystems, 191 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: and things like this, like the reality of things not 192 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: touching the academics of things. And it seems like, very 193 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 3: early on, even if it wasn't in a super formalized way, 194 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: she was able to weave those two worlds together, and 195 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 3: so her world in books was very alive to her, 196 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 3: in her world in nature was very alive to her 197 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: as well. And I think that's cool because you know, 198 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 3: a lot of the time you can you can read 199 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: something in books, but then that can you can get 200 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: excited about it. Then when you're young, but then that 201 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: can that can fade away, like some of your interests 202 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: or enthusiasm, some of the excitement and fun around a 203 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,359 Speaker 3: thing can really start to fade and dissipate. 204 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: And so I think these two things being weaved. 205 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 3: Together is a part of her story that I, you know, 206 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 3: can gather a lot of inspiration from and I'm happy 207 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: to learn about. So she did really well in school too, 208 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: and she ended up skipping two or three grades. So 209 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 3: I saw two grades in one place, but I also 210 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 3: saw that she skipped three grades. So she skipped like 211 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 3: two at first, and then later on she skipped another, 212 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: so that she was eleven years old in her freshman 213 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: class in high school. But the specifics, the particulars of 214 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: that aren't even really that important. The important part is 215 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: that she was pretty She did pretty well in school. 216 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: She was good at school, and some of the titles 217 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: you'll see in some of the articles about her, you'll 218 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: see child prodigy. So she was very good at school. However, 219 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: her social life wasn't the greatest. Of course, there was 220 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 3: a huge age difference between her and her classmates, but 221 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,479 Speaker 3: she did say later on that she didn't necessarily regret 222 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 3: how her social life panned out at the time because 223 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: it reinforced her self sufficiency. I feel like this is 224 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 3: one of those sentiments that often comes in hindsight, because 225 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: it's like in the struggle, you don't necessarily think the 226 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: same way, and you know, your experience of having the 227 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 3: struggle when you're in the struggle is still very real. 228 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: Probably wasn't that great for her, as I would imagine, 229 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: but clearly she did feel like she gained some grit 230 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: through it. She ended up graduating from West Virginia State 231 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 3: College's Laboratory High School in nineteen thirty seven when she 232 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: was fourteen years old, and she enrolled at West Virginia 233 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 3: State College on an academic scholarship. So she didn't really 234 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: want to go to West Virginia State, but her family 235 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: was already paying for her older sister's education at Hampton Institute, 236 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 3: and they couldn't afford for her to go to another school. 237 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: So this is kind of like what I was talking about. 238 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: She said that at first, she lost interest in science 239 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: because she had a teacher who made it boring, and 240 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: that cost her the scholarship. I think that can happen 241 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: a lot as you get older, because I mean the 242 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: world becomes more jury in general, a lot more grey. 243 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: Tones on things as you start to get older. 244 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: So that can happen a lot, like a lot more 245 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: gray tones on things, and that cost her the scholarship. 246 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: So her parents started trying trying to help her pay 247 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: for her tuition during her second year, but they had 248 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: trouble paying for her tuition, so she started doing domestic 249 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 3: work over the summers to help pay for her own tuition. 250 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: So financially challenging, also academically challenging a difficult period for her, 251 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 3: but regardless, she did eventually find two mentors, Toy Davis 252 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: I think that's how you pronounce it, tye and Frederick Lanner. 253 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: So Davis was a black biologist with a PhD from Harvard, 254 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 3: and she had sent a sample of a colony of 255 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 3: marine animals to him for identification, and he had to 256 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,119 Speaker 3: send it off to a lab. There was a waiting process, 257 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: and during that time he made sure that she had 258 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: a microscope that she could use and then he showed 259 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: her how to use a taxonomic key. And then he 260 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: also introduced her to a book that was pretty important 261 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: in bology called Freshwater Biology by Ward and Whipple. And he, however, 262 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 3: was soon drafted into World War two. And there was 263 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: another professor that Margaret had already been talking to who 264 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: had come over, and he was a professor of German. 265 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: He's a white professor named Frederick Lehner. He became her 266 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: mentor upon Davis's suggestion after Davis left. So Margaret majored 267 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: in bology with minors and physics and German. And she 268 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: ended up marrying Howard. University pre met student named Bernard E. 269 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 3: Strickland in July nineteen forty two, but he was also 270 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: soon drafted into the war. She graduated with her Bachelor 271 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 3: of Science in nineteen forty three. So I'm not so 272 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: much sure about their personal life, her life married to Bernard, 273 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: I don't really know much about their relationship, about how 274 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: they got along, but I do know that because he 275 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 3: was drafted, she didn't really spend a lot of personal 276 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: time with him, so he was pretty far away during 277 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: this time. And while she was studying either way, she 278 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: had planned to start a business collecting specimens for biological 279 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: supply houses. So she enrolled for a few classes at 280 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 3: the University of Chicago and her plan was just to 281 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 3: take enough courses in field zoology and ecology so she 282 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 3: could start her business. But as often happens, we plan 283 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 3: things with that isn't necessarily how they pan out, and 284 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: during registration her advisor had turned out to be the 285 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: zoologist Alfred Emerson, who was the grandson of Ralph Waldo Emerson. 286 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: He drum Roe please was a termite expert, and he 287 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 3: managed the largest turmite collection and related looking. 288 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: Reprint library in the world. 289 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 3: Introduction of the insect of the hour termites. So, yes, 290 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 3: are you a fan of termites? 291 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: Annie? Yeah, I just was not expect this was a twist. 292 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, termites, I haven't given them much thought, luckily, 293 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 2: because it's never been a problem for me. 294 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: And now I'm really curious. 295 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 4: As a homeowner, I have good and much thought and 296 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 4: I'm like, but why. 297 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, like why yeah, yeah? So you know I did 298 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: wonder this in learning about Margaret's story, not so sure 299 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: I even know now about what her draw to turmites was. 300 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 3: I know a little bit, as we'll learn about how 301 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 3: she got into studying termites, but I'm not fully sure 302 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 3: why she continued to learn about them. What was it 303 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: about the insects specifically that made her fall in love 304 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 3: with this specific topic. But she did start taking his 305 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 3: course and she became intoxicated by zoology. Even though she 306 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 3: was really interested in zoology, she still had trouble keeping 307 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: up with expenses. At the time, black people couldn't go 308 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 3: to the University of West Virginia, so the state would 309 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 3: offer one hundred and twenty five dollars per year towards 310 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 3: an out of state tuition, but that still wasn't enough 311 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: to cover the money that she needed. She ended up 312 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: getting a night job at a defense plant because she 313 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 3: was only eating about ten meals a week. But her 314 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 3: professors noticed her interest in the field of zoology, and 315 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 3: Emerson found out somehow that she was struggling financially, and 316 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 3: he offered her an assistantship and she was assigned to 317 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 3: look after the termite collection. So over the next years. 318 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: She's still an avid reader. She reads all the books 319 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 3: in Emerson's offers office library except for one that is 320 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 3: mentioned in the article I was reading about her, which 321 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 3: was like apparently very dull and boring. I can't remember 322 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 3: right now what the subject of that book was, but 323 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 3: I'm like, that's interesting. Out of how many books in 324 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: his library, she determined that this single was dull and boring, 325 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 3: because I'm sure a lot of them were also very 326 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 3: dense and academic, but she read a lot of them, 327 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 3: and even after all of that, she still hadn't chosen 328 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: her specialty. But then she found a book in his 329 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 3: library called Termite City, and it reminded her of the 330 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: books that she read in her childhood. So I love 331 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: that link back to her thinking of this as something 332 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 3: that has more like I guess, heart to it, Like 333 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: there's an emotional connection there that makes that reminds her 334 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: of why she's interested in why she loves it so much. 335 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: Is it's very heartwarming and wholesome to think about that connection. 336 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 3: But when her second year at the university was over 337 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: World War two and ended, her husband, Bernard came back 338 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: and he started going back to Howard for pre med. 339 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 3: So because Bernard came back, a few things changed. 340 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: She gave up. 341 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: Doing full time classes at grad school. She ended up 342 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 3: getting a job as an instructor in the biology department 343 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: at Howard, and she wanted to make more money for 344 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 3: the family and to help support Bernard's studies, and she 345 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: also wanted to be with him because he had been 346 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: away for so long. So she spent the next three 347 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 3: summers in Chicago. She finished her coursework and did her research, 348 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 3: and Emerson was still a mentor to her, and he 349 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 3: was for decades. But when he was building a team 350 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 3: to go on an expedition the Marshall Islands, he did 351 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: not invite her and he said that he thought young 352 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 3: women should not go on expeditions, and he insisted that 353 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: Margaret take her finals and finish her thesis instead. But 354 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: their you know, professional relationship continued even after that, but 355 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 3: this was a point that he stood on. Margaret's thesis 356 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: was titled Differences in Toleration of drying among species of 357 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: termites reticular terms, and she this is her a seminal 358 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 3: work in her career. So doctor Margaret left her marriage 359 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 3: in nineteen forty nine. That year she got her PhD 360 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 3: in zoology from the University of Chicago, leading to her 361 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 3: first So there were other black American female zoologists before her, 362 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 3: but she was a pioneer in her field. Still during 363 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: the nineteen fifties, Emerson gave Margaret termite specimens he collected 364 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: on his research trips to Guyana, and this his research 365 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 3: in Guyana would really pan out to be something that 366 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 3: was important for doctor Margaret in her lifetime too. So 367 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: she was promoted from instructor to an assistant professor at Howard, 368 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 3: but Howard wasn't really quick to promote women to higher positions. 369 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: There were also problems that she herself had with Howard 370 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 3: at the time, like she didn't really care for the 371 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: president of Howard, who was Mordecai Johnson. She thought that 372 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: the zoology department was geared too much toward medical training. 373 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: There's a quote where she said it was a place 374 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 3: of entrenched chauvinism. She said that Mordecai Johnson didn't like 375 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 3: independence of thought, and when she was at Howard, she 376 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 3: said that he said he didn't want her to wear trousers. 377 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 3: But all of these reasons led her to quit at 378 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: Howard and in nineteen fifty one she became a professor 379 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 3: at Florida Agricultural Mechanical College, which is n HBCU, and 380 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty one she married Herbert L. Collins. Her 381 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 3: second marriage she had gotten divorced from Bernard, and so 382 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 3: she and Herbert had two sons, and she ended up 383 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: becoming the chair of Florida A and M's biology department 384 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty three. So that year she continued her 385 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: field studies. She began collecting specimens in the Everglades and 386 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: in Highlands State Park for a study of Florida termites. 387 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 3: And she would even take her family on collecting trips 388 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 3: where she was collecting sp vestments in the Everglades. So 389 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 3: this was her her career in zoology and ecology, but 390 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: she also did things outside of that. So there was 391 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 3: one time where she was invited to lecture on her 392 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 3: research at a university. It was a predominantly white university 393 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 3: and at the time the school got a bomb threat 394 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 3: and so her invitation was rescinded. Margaret was black, of course, 395 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 3: so it doesn't take much, you know, for violence to 396 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 3: be meeted upon you or threatened against you when you're 397 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 3: black at time like this. But she was also involved 398 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 3: in activism, So when Florida A and M called for 399 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 3: a bus boycott in Tallahassee, she offered to drive people 400 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 3: to work, and her involvement and her and that kind 401 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 3: of civil rights activism did lead to more surveillance by 402 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 3: state and local police as well as the FBI. And 403 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 3: there was a period between nineteen fifty two and nineteen 404 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 3: fifty seven where she didn't publish any scientific papers, although 405 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 3: she had been publishing I think like one or two 406 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 3: a year up until that time. It seems like her 407 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 3: civil rights efforts took priority. But in nineteen fifty eight 408 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: she did start publishing again. However, she had fallen behind 409 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 3: and keeping up with the science. So while she was 410 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 3: at Florida A and M. I believe, she wrote a 411 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 3: book and there was a quote where she talked about 412 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 3: how she had gotten sent back in illustration with the 413 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 3: when she was writing the book, and she didn't really 414 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 3: understand the illustration, and she realized that she had she 415 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: had fallen behind in her own personal work of keeping 416 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: up with the field, and so she wanted to stop working. 417 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 3: And she was like, if you don't let me go 418 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 3: and take some time off, then I'm just I'm just 419 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 3: going to leave. So I let her take time I'm 420 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 3: off And she got a National Science Foundation Summer Research 421 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 3: Fellowship to study new developments in genetics and in a 422 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 3: molecular biology at New York's Cold Spring Harbor Lab and 423 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 3: from sixty one nineteen sixty one. In nineteen sixty two, 424 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: she took her leave of absence from Florida A and M, 425 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 3: and she got another grant from the National Science Foundation. 426 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 3: She ended up studying for a year at the University 427 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 3: of Minnesota, where she was a research associate and at 428 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 3: the Minnesota Agricultural Experimental Station, and when she was there 429 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 3: she worked on studies of North American termites. While she 430 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 3: was in Minnesota, unfortunately, she was injured in a lab 431 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: accident and her lungs were permanently damaged from that, so 432 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 3: she divorced her second husband in nineteen sixty three. The 433 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 3: next year after that, she moved back to DC. She 434 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 3: became a full professor at Howard and she took a 435 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: tenured position at Federal City College, and she also became 436 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: a research associate at the Smithsonian. So a couple of 437 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 3: her students from Guyana encouraged her to reopen a field 438 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 3: station that Alfred Emerson had opened in Guyana and that 439 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: had been closed in the late nineteen fifties. But because 440 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 3: these students encouraged her, then doctor Margaret was. 441 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: Into the idea. 442 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: So from nineteen seventy five, around nineteen seventy five nineteen 443 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: seventy six, she started getting in talks with the government 444 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 3: of Guyana, and in January of nineteen seventy eight she 445 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 3: got official government sponsorship in Guyana and from the Guyana 446 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: Department of the Army. She began rebuilding that field station 447 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 3: in Cartabo. With support from the government, travel grants from Howard, 448 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: and some funding from the Smithsonian, she was able to 449 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: move forward with the rebuilding of that station. She also 450 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 3: began researching defense mechanisms and termites, so basically the chemicals 451 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: that termites used to defend themselves from predators, and she 452 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 3: was studying and collecting in a lot of places. She 453 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: studying and collected termites in Mexico, Costa Rica, Colombia, Barbados, Belize, Surinam, 454 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: the Cayman Islands, Guatemala, Panama, and a lot of parts 455 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 3: of the United States. So she basically said that like, 456 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: termites are tropical, which I didn't know. She's like, yeah, 457 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: the termites in the United States are fine and everything, 458 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 3: but like the real ones are the ones elsewhere. So 459 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: she's had to study in a lot of different places 460 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: to do her collecting. She led conditions in the nineteen eighties, 461 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 3: and here's an excerpt from a letter that she wrote 462 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: to members of her group on one of the Earthwatch 463 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 3: expeditions that she went to in eighty three to eighty four. 464 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: This is what she said. 465 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 3: More than thirteen thousand insects specimens were taken, plus the 466 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 3: ectoparasite stuff. Samples of about a dozen identifiable medicinal plants, 467 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: along with photographs and data on their utilization were taken, 468 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: and the plants are now in the hands of specialists 469 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: at the US National Museum. So in the late seventies 470 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 3: to the nineties she researched termites and Guyana through the 471 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: Smithsonian's Department of Entomology, and throughout all her expeditions she 472 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: would inform Guyana's military ways to build that would avoid 473 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 3: termite damage and inform them of how to use termite 474 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 3: excretions to make stronger building materials. And the specimens that 475 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 3: she collected became part of the Collins Collection at the 476 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 3: Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History. So she retired from 477 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 3: Howard in nineteen eighty three. She ended up taking an 478 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 3: unpaid senior research position at the Smithsonian as well, But 479 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: during her trip to Guyana in eighty three to eighty four, 480 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 3: she had gotten d in gay fever and the issues 481 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 3: that she had resulting from that kept her out of 482 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 3: the field. During this time, she worked on updating and 483 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: preserving the Smithsonian's termite collection, and really she recognized how 484 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: important that work in the museum was, but she really 485 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: considered her herself like a field of colleges. She really 486 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 3: wanted to be back out in the field, and eventually 487 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 3: she did get back out into the field. In December 488 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: of nineteen ninety four, when she was seventy two years old, 489 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: she returned to Guyana with Matthew Kane, who was a 490 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 3: staff member at the Smithsonian who specialized in termite gut microbes, 491 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 3: and for a few weeks she collected specimens she needed 492 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 3: to describe a new termite species, and I think there 493 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 3: is a termite species that is named after her. So 494 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: she died in April nineteen ninety six when she was 495 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 3: doing field research in the Cayman Islands. And here's I'll 496 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: just read you a quote from there's a text called 497 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 3: Black Women's Scientists in the United States that has a 498 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: bio on her. And here's a quote from that bio. 499 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: Collins's research spanned five decades and encompassed nearly the entire 500 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 3: field of termite zoology, the evolution of desiccation resistance and termites, 501 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 3: various termite species, tolerance of high temperatures, defensive behavior in 502 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: South American termites including chemical defenses, termite ecology, species abundance 503 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: in virgin and disturbed tropical rainforest, and behavioral ecology, taxonomy 504 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 3: and entomology. 505 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: End quote. 506 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 3: And I just wanted to read that quote from that 507 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 3: bio because they encapsulated the breath for termite research a 508 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 3: lot better than I would have been able to, not 509 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 3: being a termite expert myself. But that just goes to 510 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 3: show you how wide ranging her research was in that 511 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 3: specific field and how much of an impact it did 512 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 3: have on later research and researchers that came after her. 513 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 3: She's remembered as a great world authority on the termite 514 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 3: diversity in the Caribbean and in Guyana. And that's the 515 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: story of doctor Margaret S. 516 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: Colin. 517 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: I love this. Okay, First of all, thank you, as always, Eves. 518 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 2: I'm so happy to learn about this. Second of all, listeners, 519 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry we don't have videos sometimes because Samantha 520 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: and I were having very different reactions to the termite terms. 521 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: I was very excited. Samantha was not excited at all. 522 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 4: There's atentive disgust. I mean, come on, yeah, well, more confusion. 523 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 4: The confusion was more so more prominent than the disgust. 524 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: But because I'm like, really digest the systems of termites 525 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 4: and we're using this for buildings. 526 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: What is happening? What is happening? How big are these termites? 527 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 4: Oh, that's the other question, Like these are like the 528 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 4: swarms of what I think of, and like when they 529 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 4: built colonies. When we're talking about colonies, I'm like, yeah, 530 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 4: they've destroyed an entire building or forest, Like what what 531 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 4: are these things? 532 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 533 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 4: In my mind, So also again a lot of confusion. 534 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 3: I just imagine that anything that I've seen, if it 535 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 3: also exists in the tropics, that it's astronomically larger. Like 536 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 3: I don't know, I just feel like everything there is 537 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: bigger because it has more more space to grow, it's 538 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 3: more undisturbed. So I just imagine anything that's here that 539 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 3: I know I'm small. If there's a species of spider 540 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 3: it was, there's like three times. 541 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 4: Bigger that is a nightmare. That's a horror movie. To me, 542 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 4: that's a horror movie. 543 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: I wonder if there is a termite based horror movie. 544 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 2: There must be any question out now I'm gonna have 545 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: to look that up. But yeah, no, I thought this 546 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 2: was really cool because the specificity kind of delights me of. 547 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: It of like, this is what I'm gonna do. 548 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 2: And I again, I hadn't really thought about how termites are. Yeah, 549 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 2: they are really damaging, and I now I want to 550 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 2: look into how they work more, which is annoying everything. 551 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: They destroy everything. 552 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to look into I do love 553 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 2: what you were talking about Eves, of her just curiosity 554 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 2: even as a young child, and being able to connect 555 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 2: those concepts of these kind of the outside world, the 556 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 2: outdoors world, and in the books she read. 557 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: I desperately want to know what one the one book 558 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: that she said was too boring. 559 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 2: But I just think that is that when you can 560 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 2: have that curiosity and you do get so excited about 561 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 2: these things that maybe no one else really thinks about. 562 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 2: And I just I really enjoy when we get to 563 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: learn about people like that. 564 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 565 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 4: I think it's also an amazing story about understanding when 566 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 4: someone is passionate about something, how that feels contagious and 567 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 4: when you really dig into it, and how easily it 568 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 4: could also be stamped out like that. For a second 569 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 4: she was like, h this is bory. I don't like you. 570 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 4: You're being racist or discriminatory, or this issue is happening. 571 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 4: I'm off, I'm gone, But then finding someone else come 572 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 4: in and being like, no, but here, this is again 573 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 4: like having one boring professor who doesn't make it interesting, 574 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 4: and then having that next professor who is like highlighting everything, 575 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 4: resparking what you already had a passion for, but growing 576 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 4: that and what that actually looks like and why that's 577 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 4: so important for so many people, young women, especially especially 578 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 4: for those who have been told they couldn't do it 579 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 4: all along or who didn't think about it. It sounds 580 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 4: like she did not have that problem. She knew the 581 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 4: young age. She's like, I can do this, Like teaching 582 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 4: herself to read a bout following someone's fingers while they're 583 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 4: reading is a phenomenal testament to her ability to learn 584 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 4: and quickly catch on. If you know, titling her a prodigy. 585 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 4: But with that, growing in the passion and loving and 586 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 4: finding out something that you do care about, and then 587 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 4: having people along the way to grow that passion with you, well. 588 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 3: It just goes to show you how much a single 589 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 3: tiny moment in somebody's life can define the course of 590 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 3: the rest of their life. And how much nurture interest 591 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 3: that a child shows and in whatever way are allowing 592 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 3: them giving them the room to explore that interest. How 593 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 3: that matters so much because you can have a spark, 594 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: there can be a flame when you when you relate 595 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 3: to something, but if it's not like if you don't 596 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 3: blow air onto it, if you don't if you don't 597 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 3: allow it to grow, then it can just be extinguished, 598 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 3: you know, by the drop of rain that comes through 599 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 3: that next boring professor. So yeah, I think that matters 600 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 3: a lot, And that could happen to us so many, 601 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 3: so many for so many different things in our lives. 602 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 3: You know, we don't follow every single thread that starts 603 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 3: to unspool. But I think it's nice to see how 604 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 3: there was a spark and then maybe it went away, 605 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 3: but that it was still there and it was still 606 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 3: there's still an ember of it to continue the metaphor 607 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 3: at some point that was able to spark back up 608 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: later on when she did have that professor so and 609 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 3: it just got more. She just honed in on it 610 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 3: over time. At first it was just you know, natch, 611 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 3: it was the natural world. And then eventually down the 612 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: line it got too specifically termites, and you know what, 613 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,399 Speaker 3: like I was thinking any too, like about you were 614 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 3: talking about termites being cool and not thinking about them 615 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 3: in that way. My when I think of termites, I 616 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 3: think about learning about like the elementary level version of biology, 617 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,919 Speaker 3: whatever that was, and we would just see these big 618 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 3: pictures of termite mounds, or we would go to like 619 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 3: a natural history museum and they would have a big 620 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 3: plastic replica of a termite mound, and I that's what 621 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 3: I thought about when I thought about termites. But it's 622 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 3: interesting because I never, as a person who was conditioned 623 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 3: more into like householder world later on and being an 624 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 3: adult and doing it all things and being a homeowner, 625 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 3: I only thought about termites. I no longer thought about 626 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 3: termite mounts. I only thought about termites destruction of my 627 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 3: personal property. It's very American. So so it now in 628 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 3: reading about doctor Margaret, it made me think about how 629 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 3: when I think about ants, I think about their colonies 630 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 3: and how much they work together and how they build. 631 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 3: Why don't I think about termites the same way. They 632 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 3: seem to have this also very connected community that works 633 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 3: together to build a thing. They're building this thing that's 634 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 3: so much bigger than each individual one of their them is, 635 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 3: and that they have to work together to build. And 636 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 3: I can appreciate antswer that way people keep their own 637 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 3: small ant colonies, but I've never thought about termites in 638 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 3: that way. So it definitely helped me reframe that. 639 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: Now. 640 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 3: I'm still not a bug person in general. I have 641 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 3: to say that I shouldn't have gave that given that 642 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 3: disclaimer at the top, but I do recognize how much usefulness, 643 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,720 Speaker 3: like how good they are and them being themselves of course, 644 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 3: but then there are so many things that humans have 645 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 3: because of insects that we learn from them, products that 646 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 3: are derived from from from the work that they do. Essentially, 647 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 3: so shout out to doctor Margaret for studying them. Yeah, 648 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. 649 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 4: I still have the mindset that they're trying to destroy 650 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 4: my world. 651 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: Well, see, this is what I think is cool. 652 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 2: Though, I honestly like respect the termite because we have 653 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 2: had they can instill that fear in you. Yeah, and 654 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 2: they had to have all this research done on them, 655 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 2: and they're so small, but they can cause so much damage. 656 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 2: I just feel like I have not respected the termite 657 00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 2: properly before this, and I appreciate doctor Margaret are helping 658 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,919 Speaker 2: me to realize, Yeah, there's no joke. 659 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:05,959 Speaker 1: There's no joke. 660 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,919 Speaker 4: There are no they are no joke, as the past 661 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 4: control people will tell you. I also want to add here, 662 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 4: I can definitely see ease that you've been taking time 663 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 4: to connect with your creativity. With all the metaphors we 664 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 4: just got, which were amazing, like one right after another, 665 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, yeah, she is on her vibing 666 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 4: creativity self right now with her adventures and fun I 667 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 4: love it. 668 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. 669 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 3: Know it's funny because I mean metaphor and parable is 670 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 3: a big part of religious and philosophical storytelling, and so 671 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 3: I have been noticing so much, so many good metaphors 672 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 3: and religious study essentially, I'm like, wow, like that was 673 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 3: that was really good? That helped me understand that better 674 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 3: I connect me to that. 675 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate that. 676 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 2: Yes, and we appreciate you taking the time and your 677 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 2: wild schedule in your different time zones to share this 678 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 2: story with us, because I for one loved it. It 679 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 2: was awesome. I'm so excited. 680 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 4: I won't forget it anytime soon. 681 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 2: Oh man, Well, thank you, thank you, thank you for 682 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 2: being here, and as always, we can't wait till next time. 683 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, where can the good listeners find you? 684 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 3: Y'all can just go to my website, which is eves 685 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 3: Jeffcote dot com. That is y V E S J 686 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 3: E F F C A T dot com. You can 687 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,919 Speaker 3: get to all the things from there. You can sign 688 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 3: up for my newsletter if you want to keep up 689 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 3: with me that way. You can also go to my 690 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 3: instagram if Instagram is your thing. I'm at not apologizing, 691 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 3: and you can find me on many, many, many other 692 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 3: episodes of Stuff Mom Never Told You, So dig deep 693 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 3: into the archives find all the episodes of other women 694 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 3: in history who had great firsts. We're pioneering in their fields. 695 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely go check out all of those things. 696 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 2: If you haven't already, Listeners, if you would like to 697 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 2: contact us, you can. You can email us at Hello 698 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 2: A stuff When Never Told You. You can find us 699 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 2: a blue Skype, Mom Stuff podcast or instagrament to talk 700 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 2: at stuff when Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. 701 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 2: We have some new merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we 702 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 2: have a book you can get wherever you get your books. 703 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina or executive 704 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 2: producer My and your contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks 705 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: you for listening. Stuff Never Told You is production by 706 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 2: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you 707 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 2: can check out the Art Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 708 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.