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Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 4: Past and the press.

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Speaker 5: You believe that someone out of the past we can

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Speaker 5: enter take possession of a living.

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Speaker 6: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 6: is not through with us.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Next Picture Show. A movie the Week

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Speaker 2: podcast devote to a classic film and how it shaped

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Speaker 2: our thoughts on our recent release, I'm Keith Phipps here

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Speaker 2: with Tasha Robinson, Just Tasha Robinson. No though our ringer,

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Speaker 2: cost Scott Tobias and Jenteviecowski are currently walking the demon

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Speaker 2: path in Hell and finding off enemies left and right.

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Speaker 2: But they'll be back soon, we hope. Joy Us and

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Speaker 2: Said is one of our favorite guests. Editor of Screen

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Speaker 2: Crush Coast of our sister podcast, Film Spotting SVU, author

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Speaker 2: the ex book Apposable Thumbs House is called Ebert Change

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Speaker 2: Movies Forever, and a forth coming book that I suspect

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Speaker 2: will also be excellent funny business, the old school wedding

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Speaker 2: crashers and knocked up virgins who changed comedy forever. It's

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Speaker 2: in Stories October sixth, but available for pre order now.

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Speaker 2: It's Matt Singer.

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Speaker 7: Hello, Matt, Hey, guys, how's it going.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of forever in your written book titles there.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a lot of forever. But look, you gotta

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Speaker 7: have a hook, you gotta have something, and I own

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Speaker 7: the word forever forever. The word forever is mine.

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Speaker 2: Now, first two installments in the Forever tetrology.

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Speaker 3: I was I was hoping for, you know, Jim Katta,

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Speaker 3: the movie that changed martial arts movies for a while.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, this is actually I'm gonna write this down.

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Speaker 2: The movie and it changed movies, all right.

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Speaker 3: You you owe me a penny for every book bought

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Speaker 3: under that title.

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Speaker 7: I hope to owe you many pennies. So far, nobody

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Speaker 7: has bought the Jim Katta book alas well.

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Speaker 3: Maybe something else will come along and change the field

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Speaker 3: forever enough that you can sell that.

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Speaker 7: Book someday, perhaps when the nation Parmistan rises.

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Speaker 2: Matt, has been a while. You've relaunched film Spotting SVU

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Speaker 2: with Jordan Hoffman. What is that podcast? Tell me, tell

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Speaker 2: us I know what it is, but maybe our listeners don't.

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Speaker 7: Yeah. So I used to host film Spotting SVU film

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Speaker 7: Spotting Streaming Video Unit with the great Alison Wilmore for

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Speaker 7: quite a few years, and we did it for a

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Speaker 7: long time, and then I had small children and I

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Speaker 7: got ground down by the world and very much burned out.

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Speaker 7: Needed a break, and we took a brief eight year hiatus,

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Speaker 7: let's say. And then a couple of months ago, Adam

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Speaker 7: Kempinar came to both me and Allison actually and said,

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Speaker 7: would you want to do it? And I was, You know,

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Speaker 7: by this point I had had enough of a break.

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Speaker 7: My children. My small children, who were babies at the

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Speaker 7: time I said I can't do this anymore, are now

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Speaker 7: ten and eight years old. I assume they can now

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Speaker 7: parent themselves. The last time I saw them briefly, they

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Speaker 7: seemed okay. So yeah, I was ready to do it again. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 7: Alison had just started doing a brand new podcast of

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Speaker 7: her own with the wonderful people over at blank Check.

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Speaker 7: It's called Critical Darlings. It's a great podcast. I've been

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Speaker 7: listening to it myself, but she was kind of too

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Speaker 7: busy with that and her heer job at Vulture, so

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Speaker 7: I needed a new co host, and you know, I

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Speaker 7: talked to my wife, who's kind of my conciliary on

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Speaker 7: all of these sorts of matters about it, and you know,

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Speaker 7: should we do it? Alison can't do it, And she

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Speaker 7: was the one who said, you know, if you're you're

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Speaker 7: gonna do it without Alison. If Alison can't co host it,

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Speaker 7: the only person you should do it with is is

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Speaker 7: Jordan Hoffman. And so it's me and Jordan. Every week

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Speaker 7: we're talking about streaming movies. We are discussing new titles,

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Speaker 7: We give recommendation for other new movies that are available

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Speaker 7: on streaming. We play some games. It's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 7: I am having an absolute blast. It's just every week

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Speaker 7: I get on Zoom with my buddy Jordan and he

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Speaker 7: cracks me up and we talk about movies and it's

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Speaker 7: really it's just super super fun. I'm really happy to

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Speaker 7: be back doing it again.

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Speaker 3: It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: And he occasionally uses the word gal which I always appreciate.

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Speaker 2: You're not done plugging stuff though, a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the book. He does a little about book that's going up.

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Speaker 7: Yes, so the book is called Funny Business. The movies

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Speaker 7: that changed comedy forever. Obviously, forever has to be in

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Speaker 7: the title, as we've established, and it is a book

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Speaker 7: about the period of Hollywood movie comedies roughly from the

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Speaker 7: year two thousand to twenty ten. Ish. Covers some movies before,

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Speaker 7: it covers some movies after, but it's that decade is

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Speaker 7: really the main focal point, and it is about that

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Speaker 7: period of time when this wave of comedians came in

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Speaker 7: and started working all together with one another in a

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Speaker 7: group that, against their wishes, basically became known as the

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Speaker 7: frat pack. This is people like Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller,

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Speaker 7: Vince Vaughan, Owen Wilson, and they kind of made a

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Speaker 7: lot of movies together, mixing and matching their talents. A

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Speaker 7: bunch of them are in the title of my book,

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Speaker 7: not necessarily the word forever, but words like old school

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Speaker 7: and forty year old virgin and knocked up and wedding crashers.

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Speaker 7: It's those sorts of movies and beyond just always finding

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Speaker 7: that to be a very interesting period in Hollywood comedies.

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Speaker 7: You know, this idea of this collaboration and heavy use

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Speaker 7: of improvisation because a lot of these comedians came from

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Speaker 7: the world of improvisation. I also, the more I thought

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Speaker 7: about it, it just seemed like this period where perhaps

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Speaker 7: for the last time, certainly the last time until now,

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Speaker 7: where Hollywood movie comedies were like a really big deal.

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Speaker 7: They were like one of the central focuses of Hollywood movies,

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Speaker 7: if not popular culture in general. These movies made tons

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Speaker 7: of money, They got tons of attention. These guys became

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Speaker 7: huge stars. They were a list talent at the time,

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Speaker 7: and they could get almost anything made for a period

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Speaker 7: just by their involvement. And I guess the more I

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Speaker 7: looked at it, thought about these movies, and thought about

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Speaker 7: what happened to Hollywood comedies and to these guys' careers

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Speaker 7: after the fact, I really as someone who grew up

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Speaker 7: loving comedies, I mean when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 7: this is before this period that I'm writing about, we're

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Speaker 7: talking now, kind of the late eighties into the early nineties,

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Speaker 7: all of the movies that really made me fall in

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Speaker 7: love with movies were comedy movies. And so to jump

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Speaker 7: ahead to now, the Hollywood movie comedy, especially the theatrical

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Speaker 7: movie comedy, it's just in such dire straits and is

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Speaker 7: almost non existent it's almost an endangered species, really. And

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Speaker 7: so while the book focuses on this period of time

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Speaker 7: about twenty five years ago, the end of the book

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Speaker 7: and where it kind of builds to is like what

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Speaker 7: happened to these movies? And why did they go away?

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Speaker 7: And why has the Hollywood comedy gone away? And you know,

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Speaker 7: is there a chance it could come back? Is it

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Speaker 7: gone forever? What were the forces and the changes in

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Speaker 7: the world at large and in Hollywood, in popular culture

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Speaker 7: and technology. There's a lot of different elements that kind

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Speaker 7: of gave rise to this group, these this frat pack group,

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Speaker 7: and also kind of what happened to them? And why

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Speaker 7: don't we see these kinds of movies as much anymore?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, something to look forward to then, but

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Speaker 2: more immediately we should look forward to this episode and

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Speaker 2: for this period, we've lined up two films set a

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Speaker 2: long time ago, well them in a galaxy, one our

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Speaker 2: own galaxy, And though one is much further way than

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Speaker 2: the other, they have quite a bit in common. Both

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Speaker 2: are stories of outcast warriors will live by codes of honor,

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Speaker 2: who travel in the company of adorable sidekicks, who are

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Speaker 2: witnesses to and sometimes participants in their violent adventures, Tasha,

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Speaker 2: can you tell us more about what will be discussing

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Speaker 2: the first.

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Speaker 3: New Star Wars movie since Star Wars Episode nine, The

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Speaker 3: Rise of Skywalker way back in twenty nineteen. The Mandalorian

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Speaker 3: and Grogu continues the story told across three seasons of

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Speaker 3: the Disney Plus series The Mandalorian, and to a lesser extent,

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Speaker 3: the stories told by companion series Ahsoka in the Book

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Speaker 3: of Boba, Fette As in the series, Pedro Pascal and

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Speaker 3: a couple of physical doubles play the Mandalorian. Once an

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Speaker 3: orphan child, now an adopted member of the warrior culture

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Speaker 3: of the Mandalorians. Thanks to the Galactic Empire, the Mandalorians

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Speaker 3: have been scattered to the Four Winds or whatever their

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Speaker 3: Star Wars equivalent is. To make ends meet, he has

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Speaker 3: taken on work as a bounty hunter. In the process,

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Speaker 3: he becomes the guardian of Grogu, a child with a

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Speaker 3: strong tide of the force from the same race as

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Speaker 3: the late Jedi leader Yoda. To create The Mandalorian, John

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Speaker 3: fev who directs The Mandalorian, Grogu, and Dave Filoni, who

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Speaker 3: co wrote the film script with Favreau and Noah clure

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Speaker 3: drew on a combination of spaghetti westerns and samurai films,

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Speaker 3: but one influence overshadows all the others. Lone Wolf and

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Speaker 3: Cub a multimedia franchise that began in nineteen seventy as

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Speaker 3: a manga series written by Kazuo Koake and drawn by

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Speaker 3: Gseki Kojima. Its offshoots included a film series that ran

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Speaker 3: for six installments and provided the material that would be

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Speaker 3: reworked in the nineteen eighty film Shogun Assassin.

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Speaker 2: So in this episode, we'll hit the road with ogabi

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Speaker 2: Ito and his son Digoro, a journey that will later

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Speaker 2: take us to the stars for the adventures of the

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Speaker 2: Mandalorian and Grogu.

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Speaker 5: Return to the vanished kingdoms of ancient times, journey through

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Speaker 5: a lust empire of mad wizards and barbaric passions.

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Speaker 6: Behold the saga of a legendary warrior, a loving father

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Speaker 6: who has the power of a dozen armies.

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Speaker 5: In one sweep of his mystic blade.

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Speaker 6: This is a story of honor, disgrace, vengeance, massacre, and

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Speaker 6: the man who became a demon Shogun Assassin.

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Speaker 2: Let's just get this out of the way immediately. If

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Speaker 2: you want to watch the best cinematic version of Lone

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Speaker 2: Wolf and Cub. Don't start with the nineteen eighty film

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Speaker 2: Shogun Assassin. Instead, start with the nineteen seventy two film

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Speaker 2: Lone Wolf and Cub sort of vengeance strit Pakeenji Misumi

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Speaker 2: as script Kazu Kohei k writer of the original manga,

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Speaker 2: It tells the origin story of ogami Eto and his

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Speaker 2: toddler's son Di Goro. Ogabi Ito once held the high

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Speaker 2: position of executioner for the Showgun at some unspecified point

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Speaker 2: in Japan's Edo period, assisting in the deaths of those

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Speaker 2: compelled to commit suppuku by going against the showguns will

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Speaker 2: or standing in the Showgun's way by beheading them. But

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Speaker 2: shortly after the film's opening, his life takes a disastrous

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Speaker 2: turn when members of a rival clan kill his wife

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Speaker 2: and brand him as a trader. Now a ronan and

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Speaker 2: masterless samurai, ogami Ito takes to the road for a

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Speaker 2: life as a mercenary, walking what he describes as the

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Speaker 2: devon path and hell in the company of Diagoro, whose

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Speaker 2: baby carriage contains a few deadly devices that help them

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Speaker 2: defeat their many enemies. Once finished, you should watch the

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Speaker 2: even better sequel Lone Wolf and Cub Baby cart at

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Speaker 2: the River Styx, also directed by Misumi, in scripted by Koek,

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Speaker 2: in which Ogami, Ito and de Goro get drawn into

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Speaker 2: a plot to bankrupt a clan who specializes in making

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Speaker 2: an innate go die when one of those in possession

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Speaker 2: of the secret process used to make the die turns trader.

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Speaker 2: From there, you might as well keep going to watch

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Speaker 2: the other four movies. They're all pretty good. The last

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Speaker 2: one even has zombies and a fight that Pittsogami Ito

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Speaker 2: against enemies on skis and sleds. Mitsumi, who directed for

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Speaker 2: the six installments, has a gift for alternating slow building

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Speaker 2: tension with explosions of wild violence. Star Tommy Siberro Wakayama,

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Speaker 2: who personally auditioned for the part by visiting Koek and

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Speaker 2: demonstrating that he possessed formidable sword skills despite being a

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Speaker 2: not so slim man in his forties, brings a stowy

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Speaker 2: contensity to the role, and the young Akihiro Tammi Kawa

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Speaker 2: deserves no small amount of credit for his expressive work

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Speaker 2: is Dagaro, and because these films were made back to

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Speaker 2: back to back in real time, they offered a chance

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Speaker 2: to watch him grow up on screen, a bit like

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Speaker 2: a miniature bloodsoa twist on Richard Linklater's Boyhood. The first

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Speaker 2: two Lone Wolf and Cob movies provide the raw material

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Speaker 2: for Showgun Assassin, which debuted in American theaters in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty and make no misas. Showgun Assassin, which totches about

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Speaker 2: twelve minutes from sort of vengeance into a shorter version

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Speaker 2: of a baby car to the River Styx, is a

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Speaker 2: bastardization of that source material. Reworked by director Robert Houston

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Speaker 2: and producer David Weisman, both members of Andy Warhol's circle.

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Speaker 2: The film simplifies the plot. There's nothing about a top

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Speaker 2: secret Indigo die formula. Here, throws in some psychedelic editing

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Speaker 2: touches and drops scenes that provide atmosphere and cultural context.

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Speaker 2: It's a just the exciting stuff version of the films

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Speaker 2: that loses a lot of meat in an attempt to

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Speaker 2: trim the perceived fat. But Showgun Assassin is still worth

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Speaker 2: watching for several reasons. Above all, it's a trippy good time.

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Speaker 2: It's easy to see why the film became a grindhouse

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Speaker 2: and drive and hit. The film also has its own

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Speaker 2: cultural importance, having served as an introduction to the Lone

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Speaker 2: Wolf and Cove universe for many fans in the West,

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Speaker 2: first in theaters and then on home video. It's this

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Speaker 2: version that the bride watches as a kind of bedtime

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Speaker 2: story with her child near the end of Kill Bill,

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Speaker 2: a by former videos store employee Quentin Tarantino. It's also

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Speaker 2: heavily sampled on Jizu's classic nineteen ninety five album Liquid Swords,

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Speaker 2: which highlights two of Shogun Assassin's most notable additions, the

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Speaker 2: haunting narration of Gibrin Evans, the child actor who gives

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Speaker 2: voice to Degro. It is scynth heavy score by W.

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Speaker 2: Michael Lewis and Mark Lindsay, the latter better known as

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Speaker 2: the lead singer of Paul Revere and the Raiders. Though

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Speaker 2: highly entertaining, Shogun Assassin loses a lot in the process

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Speaker 2: of translation and condensation, but maybe not as much as

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Speaker 2: you might think. Houston and Weissman's remix loses the details

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Speaker 2: of oogami Ito's adherence to a code of honor, but

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Speaker 2: it provides enough glimpse of that code of honor and

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Speaker 2: the larger world around it to make fans want to

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Speaker 2: know more. Undoubtedly, many simply saw Showgun Assassin and moved on,

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Speaker 2: but it's popularity helped pay the way for popular reprints

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Speaker 2: of the original manga the nineteen eighties and created an

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Speaker 2: appetite for the original films, which had enjoyed extremely limited

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Speaker 2: releases in their original forms in the West of the

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, but began reappearing on Debasu ray and the Odds.

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Speaker 2: Above all, Shogun Assassin is fascinating as an example of

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Speaker 2: the complicated cultural exchanges involved in making, remaking, and borrowing

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Speaker 2: from the original Lone wolfm cub Shogun Assassin takes what

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Speaker 2: it feels it needs for the source material and leaves

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Speaker 2: the rest. In that sense, it's just a more direct

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Speaker 2: version of what happens when artists reach across cultures for inspiration,

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Speaker 2: like the film will discuss next week and the Star

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Speaker 2: Wars universe in general. But to create Lone Wolfe and

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Speaker 2: Cub koe Ka also look beyond his place of birth

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Speaker 2: join inspiration from the dramatic hero sigur and, as in

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Speaker 2: many Japanese period genre films, influence from Japan's past mingle

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Speaker 2: with images from Westerns and other sources. Will we back

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Speaker 2: at a moment discuss all this and more. The next

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Speaker 2: Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 2: same week this episode drops, there's a movie coming out

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Speaker 2: time n e xt pic two six. It was a

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Speaker 2: bad time for the empire.

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Speaker 4: The chogun just stayed inside his castle and he never

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Speaker 4: came out. People said his brain was infected by devils

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Speaker 4: and that he was rotting with evil. The shogun said

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Speaker 4: people were not loyal. He said he had a lot

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Speaker 4: of enemies, but he killed more people than that. It

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Speaker 4: was a bad time, everybody living in fear, but still

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Speaker 4: we were happy. My father would come home to mother,

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Speaker 4: and when he had seen her, she'd forget about the killings.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't scared of the shogun, but the chogun was

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Speaker 4: scared of him. Maybe that was the problem.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what was everyone's background with Lone Wolf and

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Speaker 2: Cub going to this film, because there's lots of ways

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Speaker 2: you can consume Lone Wolf and Cub, whether on the

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Speaker 2: page or on the screen.

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Speaker 7: So I had never seen any of the Lone Wolf

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Speaker 7: and Cub movies before. The only way that I had

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Speaker 7: really interfaced with this property, this franchise before was through

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Speaker 7: some of the manga. I was working in a comic

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Speaker 7: book store at the time that I think it was

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Speaker 7: dark Horse Comics was putting out these really handsome, these

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Speaker 7: small little compilations of the original Lone Wolf and Cub

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Speaker 7: comics with these really cool Frank Miller covers. I was

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Speaker 7: very into reading, you know, Frank Miller's classic works at

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Speaker 7: the time. That was the time that I was really

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Speaker 7: reading those and discovering those, and so his you know,

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Speaker 7: he kind of was like almost presenting these comics here

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Speaker 7: and his imprimature here made me very curious, and so

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Speaker 7: I read the first couple of volumes of Lone Wolf

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Speaker 7: and Cub at that time. But again, this was like

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Speaker 7: twenty twenty five years ago. I'm very old. It was

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Speaker 7: a long time ago now, so I don't exactly have

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Speaker 7: super strong memories of the comics at this point, and

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Speaker 7: then for our discussion here, I watched Showgun Assassin first,

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Speaker 7: and then I did go back and watched the first

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Speaker 7: of the actual Lone Wolf and Cub movies sort of.

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Speaker 7: I did not have time to watch the second film,

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Speaker 7: but I guess if Shogun Assassin is, you know, technically

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Speaker 7: like a compilation that combines the first two, and it's

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Speaker 7: mostly the second with a little bit of the first.

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Speaker 7: I saw most of that second movie anyway, but that's

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Speaker 7: where I stand on it as far as it goes.

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Speaker 7: I kind of am sort of basically a neo fight,

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Speaker 7: maybe slightly better than a neo fight.

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Speaker 2: Tacha, how about you, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Kind of in the same boat. I also have read

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Speaker 3: a lot of the manga Dark Horse, strangely did not

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Speaker 3: start sending them to me with book one. It was

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Speaker 3: something like, you know, book three or four. I want

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Speaker 3: to say, I still have them. I really meant to

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Speaker 3: go down and check where I started with a series,

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Speaker 3: if only because what I remember most about that first

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Speaker 3: book is the main character, I think, gets trapped by

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Speaker 3: a bunch of bandits who for him at sword point

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Speaker 3: to make sweet sweet love with a woman captive, so

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Speaker 3: he he sexually satisfies her despite being at sword point,

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Speaker 3: and then all the bandits kind of stand around, going,

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Speaker 3: my god, what a man. He is capable of pleasuring

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Speaker 3: a woman even on the threat of death. And that

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Speaker 3: was just a very weird way to begin reading that series.

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Speaker 3: But then it stuck with it throughout because the art

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Speaker 3: is so like dynamic and unique. It also just felt

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Speaker 3: a little like a cultural competency thing because I kept

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Speaker 3: seeing Lone Wolf and Cub reflected in so many other

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Speaker 3: things that I liked, maybe the foremost being usage you

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Speaker 3: Jimbo Stan Sakaia's Funny Animal Samurai comic, which is really

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Speaker 3: really tremendous act of storytelling, and eventually introduced a goat

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Speaker 3: character called Lone Goat and Kid the influences with which

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Speaker 3: we're very, very obvious, but I think whenever you have

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Speaker 3: a solo male warrior traveling with a young child, it's

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Speaker 3: it's hard not to bring some of the influence of

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Speaker 3: this series in. So Yeah, I never got around to

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Speaker 3: movies either. This was my first experience with the Samurai

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Speaker 3: Assassin as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think show that Assassin has traditionally been, or

405
00:23:44,845 --> 00:23:46,484
Speaker 2: least for a certain period of time, but a lot

406
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Speaker 2: of people's first introduction to it, and it's a weird introduction.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad I saw the original films first and then

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Speaker 2: I watched Shogun Assassin. But I'm glad I've seen both

409
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Speaker 2: because I think it's kind of it's just and kind

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Speaker 2: of God, we're talking about Shogun Assassin, because it's just

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Speaker 2: an interesting, active translation.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 2: It kind of got largely ignored by critics. I think

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Speaker 2: the New York Fensed Camion in New York Times kind

415
00:24:11,565 --> 00:24:14,525
Speaker 2: of likened it to What's Up Tiger Lily, which was

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Speaker 2: Woody Allen's kind of readub of a Japanese spy movie

417
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Speaker 2: that I used to think was hilarious. I haven't seen

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Speaker 2: it in years, so I don't know if it holds

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Speaker 2: up as well. But Kevin Thomas in a Los Angeles Times,

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Speaker 2: who was always pretty good about Japanese films and just

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Speaker 2: foreign films in general and reviews, talked about how it's

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Speaker 2: a superior redubbing than you usually get because the creators

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Speaker 2: actually tailored the dialogue to match the movements of the actors.

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Speaker 2: So I can I think I kind of helped with

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Speaker 2: Western audiences. But I also thought this line from his

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Speaker 2: review was kind of interesting, which is compared to the

427
00:24:51,085 --> 00:24:54,205
Speaker 2: original films, and said they're both a stylized bloodbath decidedly

428
00:24:54,285 --> 00:24:56,725
Speaker 2: not for those with weak stomachs. That stretches the Japanese

429
00:24:56,765 --> 00:25:01,285
Speaker 2: period pictures paradox depicting incredible violence with incredible beauty about

430
00:25:01,325 --> 00:25:03,045
Speaker 2: as far as it will go. Was that kind of

431
00:25:03,085 --> 00:25:05,125
Speaker 2: your experience watching this film, because it is, I mean,

432
00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:09,525
Speaker 2: the violence is beletic and really really bloody, right, it

433
00:25:10,005 --> 00:25:11,045
Speaker 2: really really is.

434
00:25:11,245 --> 00:25:17,165
Speaker 3: I mean it's using that bright red like paint textured

435
00:25:17,325 --> 00:25:22,125
Speaker 3: blood that was so common in eighties action movies. So

436
00:25:22,245 --> 00:25:27,405
Speaker 3: there's not really a feeling that you're watching actual people die.

437
00:25:28,565 --> 00:25:30,245
Speaker 2: Lot doesn't usually come out as if someone turned on

438
00:25:30,365 --> 00:25:31,445
Speaker 2: a fire hose. It's just.

439
00:25:33,045 --> 00:25:36,125
Speaker 3: Now exactly, how do you know what happens when you

440
00:25:36,645 --> 00:25:38,845
Speaker 3: slice somebody's neck open and hear the whistling of the

441
00:25:38,885 --> 00:25:45,325
Speaker 3: winter wind? Keith, I personally have never cut off any limbs,

442
00:25:45,405 --> 00:25:47,245
Speaker 3: so for all I know, it's a fire hose of

443
00:25:47,285 --> 00:25:51,085
Speaker 3: paint immediately. In fact, my experience with cinema has told

444
00:25:51,125 --> 00:25:54,485
Speaker 3: me that that is exactly what happens. But that said,

445
00:25:55,165 --> 00:25:58,125
Speaker 3: I I have seen a lot of violence in a

446
00:25:58,285 --> 00:26:00,965
Speaker 3: lot of movies, and yet I've never seen anything quite

447
00:26:01,125 --> 00:26:04,725
Speaker 3: like this before, certainly not from the time period. There's

448
00:26:05,085 --> 00:26:10,245
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, dropping limbs, I guess in

449
00:26:10,685 --> 00:26:14,685
Speaker 3: Samurai epics that are are trying to go for a

450
00:26:14,805 --> 00:26:18,045
Speaker 3: grim and grittier kind of take, but this just goes

451
00:26:18,285 --> 00:26:19,365
Speaker 3: a lot further.

452
00:26:19,845 --> 00:26:21,885
Speaker 2: It's very close to I thought in The Holy Grail

453
00:26:21,925 --> 00:26:25,165
Speaker 2: at times, and that one especially it is.

454
00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:30,285
Speaker 3: But at the same time, the sequence where a female

455
00:26:30,365 --> 00:26:34,285
Speaker 3: ninja seeks to prove like the the efficacy of her

456
00:26:34,365 --> 00:26:37,565
Speaker 3: Ninja clan by calling on the person trying to hire

457
00:26:37,645 --> 00:26:41,845
Speaker 3: her to produce his best man, and then surrounds that

458
00:26:41,965 --> 00:26:45,365
Speaker 3: man with with armed women and says try to try

459
00:26:45,445 --> 00:26:48,325
Speaker 3: to leave the room, and then you just get body

460
00:26:48,445 --> 00:26:54,325
Speaker 3: parts dropping and not fighting off and and something that's

461
00:26:54,365 --> 00:26:57,645
Speaker 3: sort of like a cheek and a piece of ear,

462
00:26:58,845 --> 00:27:01,165
Speaker 3: just just bit by bit. I mean that is, it's

463
00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:05,205
Speaker 3: some and some fingers. It's straight up like like looper

464
00:27:05,405 --> 00:27:09,045
Speaker 3: body horror. And the fact that there's relatively little blood

465
00:27:09,085 --> 00:27:11,125
Speaker 3: to that at first, and the fact that the man

466
00:27:11,205 --> 00:27:15,325
Speaker 3: doesn't scream as he's being hacked apart just all gives

467
00:27:15,405 --> 00:27:19,725
Speaker 3: it a sense of like almost surreal stylized horror that

468
00:27:20,045 --> 00:27:22,245
Speaker 3: again is just not really like anything else I've seen.

469
00:27:22,805 --> 00:27:26,645
Speaker 7: Yeah, one of the things that I really liked about

470
00:27:26,805 --> 00:27:31,125
Speaker 7: the both movies was, and again it's been so long

471
00:27:31,205 --> 00:27:33,085
Speaker 7: since I read the comics, so I'm not saying it

472
00:27:33,205 --> 00:27:38,325
Speaker 7: necessarily felt like these specific comics, but the general esthetic

473
00:27:38,485 --> 00:27:43,085
Speaker 7: and the tone felt very comic book to me. And

474
00:27:43,245 --> 00:27:45,845
Speaker 7: I say that as a positive, as a as a

475
00:27:46,605 --> 00:27:48,325
Speaker 7: thing that I liked about it. That's I don't say

476
00:27:48,365 --> 00:27:57,325
Speaker 7: that critically. The bright splashes of color, these incredible visual moments,

477
00:27:58,045 --> 00:28:03,565
Speaker 7: the very striking, almost iconic imagery. You know, I could

478
00:28:03,645 --> 00:28:08,965
Speaker 7: immediately understand why these images were so influential and so popular.

479
00:28:09,405 --> 00:28:13,725
Speaker 7: Even some of the elements of the the movie itself,

480
00:28:13,805 --> 00:28:18,685
Speaker 7: you know, the baby carriage that secretly hides these different

481
00:28:18,805 --> 00:28:22,165
Speaker 7: weapons that can almost like pop out at a press

482
00:28:22,205 --> 00:28:25,485
Speaker 7: of a button. You know, it's almost like it's like

483
00:28:25,565 --> 00:28:28,005
Speaker 7: the batmobile or something. You know, it's hiding all of

484
00:28:28,085 --> 00:28:32,005
Speaker 7: these these things that it can do, all of those

485
00:28:32,085 --> 00:28:36,965
Speaker 7: little touches visually, and even within the the the story

486
00:28:37,245 --> 00:28:41,885
Speaker 7: or some of these accouterments of the story, I felt

487
00:28:42,085 --> 00:28:44,725
Speaker 7: it did feel like a comic book adapted and brought

488
00:28:44,765 --> 00:28:47,285
Speaker 7: to life, I thought in a very successful and very

489
00:28:47,685 --> 00:28:48,565
Speaker 7: entertaining way.

490
00:28:49,365 --> 00:28:51,405
Speaker 2: I think, you know, Colle Kay worked on the script

491
00:28:51,525 --> 00:28:53,525
Speaker 2: for at least these first two, I think beyond that,

492
00:28:53,725 --> 00:28:56,565
Speaker 2: not all of them, so I think that probably helped too.

493
00:28:56,565 --> 00:28:59,525
Speaker 2: But also it's edited in a way to suggest comics

494
00:28:59,605 --> 00:29:00,805
Speaker 2: panels to me as well.

495
00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:05,325
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the composition, especially you know, where we're

496
00:29:05,405 --> 00:29:09,165
Speaker 3: seeing the main character kind of overlaid with the action.

497
00:29:09,845 --> 00:29:13,925
Speaker 3: You get the feeling of a composed comics panel, and

498
00:29:14,205 --> 00:29:17,405
Speaker 3: specifically a manga panel, like there are sort of image

499
00:29:17,485 --> 00:29:20,645
Speaker 3: overlay kind of things that just feel very much like

500
00:29:21,245 --> 00:29:24,125
Speaker 3: not a Western comic where you might have like an inset,

501
00:29:25,045 --> 00:29:28,285
Speaker 3: but like two images just kind of like overlapping that

502
00:29:28,405 --> 00:29:32,045
Speaker 3: are at different scales, taking place in different places, that

503
00:29:32,165 --> 00:29:34,365
Speaker 3: kind of bleed into each other. That feels like a

504
00:29:34,725 --> 00:29:38,005
Speaker 3: very much an attempt to capture a certain kind of

505
00:29:38,085 --> 00:29:39,685
Speaker 3: like Japanese comics stylization.

506
00:29:40,325 --> 00:29:44,685
Speaker 7: I have been recently rereading some Frank Miller comic books,

507
00:29:45,205 --> 00:29:48,085
Speaker 7: and you know, I always knew that these comics were

508
00:29:48,445 --> 00:29:53,525
Speaker 7: extremely influential on him. He would talk about it in interviews,

509
00:29:53,605 --> 00:29:57,205
Speaker 7: and obviously he presented those or did the covers for

510
00:29:57,605 --> 00:30:01,205
Speaker 7: like those those compilations that I was reading about twenty

511
00:30:01,285 --> 00:30:04,805
Speaker 7: twenty five years ago. But watching this movie, which I

512
00:30:04,885 --> 00:30:08,965
Speaker 7: suppose is pretty painful to the comics, you can really

513
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:16,405
Speaker 7: see why this sort of stylization was so important to

514
00:30:16,565 --> 00:30:20,005
Speaker 7: him and really kind of imprinted ideas into his mind,

515
00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:22,445
Speaker 7: because you know, looking at some of these sequences, they

516
00:30:22,525 --> 00:30:25,685
Speaker 7: do feel like sequences in some of his comics. You know,

517
00:30:25,765 --> 00:30:31,085
Speaker 7: there's this scene in Shogun Assassin where Lone Wolf is

518
00:30:31,205 --> 00:30:34,725
Speaker 7: fighting a group of ninja I guess in some sort

519
00:30:34,725 --> 00:30:37,565
Speaker 7: of river or a lake or something. They're all standing

520
00:30:37,645 --> 00:30:40,765
Speaker 7: in this shallow water and they have this this fight,

521
00:30:40,925 --> 00:30:43,765
Speaker 7: and then it builds to this kind of confrontation between

522
00:30:44,605 --> 00:30:48,885
Speaker 7: Lone Wolf and the Showgun's son, I think, and that

523
00:30:49,125 --> 00:30:52,245
Speaker 7: moment gets kind of distended and broken up into a

524
00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:55,365
Speaker 7: lot of close ups. There's slow motion. There are these

525
00:30:55,525 --> 00:30:58,805
Speaker 7: tight shots of the swords and the sword coming out

526
00:30:58,845 --> 00:31:01,605
Speaker 7: of the water, and that image is almost repeated multiple

527
00:31:01,725 --> 00:31:06,325
Speaker 7: times over and over, and it just looks like sequences

528
00:31:06,765 --> 00:31:09,565
Speaker 7: that I've been reading in like Frank Miller's Daredevil comics,

529
00:31:09,645 --> 00:31:14,165
Speaker 7: the issues that involve Elektra and the Hand Ninja, and

530
00:31:14,765 --> 00:31:18,645
Speaker 7: you know, I feel like I've seen repeated shots of swords,

531
00:31:18,765 --> 00:31:23,045
Speaker 7: like staccato panel panel panel pans of swords that really

532
00:31:23,125 --> 00:31:26,885
Speaker 7: look like they could have been taken almost directly out

533
00:31:26,965 --> 00:31:31,565
Speaker 7: of this movie. You can almost feel the influence of

534
00:31:32,245 --> 00:31:35,405
Speaker 7: these ideas. So this is a movie not the comics,

535
00:31:35,445 --> 00:31:37,805
Speaker 7: but sort of this mel you you can almost feel it,

536
00:31:37,885 --> 00:31:42,405
Speaker 7: like bleeding into Frank Miller's work.

537
00:31:42,685 --> 00:31:45,325
Speaker 3: Bleeding is a good good choice of words.

538
00:31:45,085 --> 00:31:50,245
Speaker 7: Here, Yeah, no pun intended. They're sorry about.

539
00:31:50,005 --> 00:31:53,565
Speaker 3: That, you know. You know what else here really reminded

540
00:31:53,605 --> 00:31:56,765
Speaker 3: me of comics is the voiceover that we get. I mean,

541
00:31:56,845 --> 00:32:00,845
Speaker 3: there's there's certainly certainly a Terrence Malick element to having

542
00:32:00,965 --> 00:32:05,405
Speaker 3: this kind of like hushed voiceover kind of explaining the

543
00:32:05,485 --> 00:32:08,525
Speaker 3: emotional impact of everything that you're seeing on screen, and

544
00:32:09,325 --> 00:32:11,725
Speaker 3: you know, delivering it all on a very kind of

545
00:32:11,885 --> 00:32:14,805
Speaker 3: like melancholy. You know that those were the good times

546
00:32:15,165 --> 00:32:18,285
Speaker 3: when we were all together and then everything became terrible.

547
00:32:19,885 --> 00:32:22,805
Speaker 3: Just you know, sort of remint but the idea of

548
00:32:22,965 --> 00:32:27,925
Speaker 3: getting like all of the interiority in a movie from

549
00:32:29,405 --> 00:32:33,805
Speaker 3: essentially like a little outset dialogue box where you get

550
00:32:33,845 --> 00:32:36,245
Speaker 3: to see what somebody is thinking. I mean, talk about

551
00:32:36,285 --> 00:32:39,765
Speaker 3: Frank Miller like that, that particular inset thing is like

552
00:32:40,645 --> 00:32:44,485
Speaker 3: fifty percent of the Dark Night books. Just having a

553
00:32:44,565 --> 00:32:48,845
Speaker 3: kind of like running monologue from Bruce Wayne slash Batman

554
00:32:49,805 --> 00:32:53,925
Speaker 3: explaining the emotional impact of what you're seeing. Keith, I

555
00:32:54,125 --> 00:32:56,205
Speaker 3: was this ended up being one of the things I

556
00:32:56,285 --> 00:33:01,165
Speaker 3: was most curious about from the originals is whether they

557
00:33:01,365 --> 00:33:05,525
Speaker 3: also have that running monologue or whether that is like

558
00:33:05,605 --> 00:33:08,045
Speaker 3: an artifact of the English translation, not.

559
00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:12,285
Speaker 2: Even a little bit. There's nothing di Goros doesn't even

560
00:33:12,485 --> 00:33:14,965
Speaker 2: really in the later ones, he has a few he

561
00:33:15,005 --> 00:33:16,925
Speaker 2: speaks a few words because, like I said in the

562
00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:19,845
Speaker 2: in the intro here, I mean this kid after kind

563
00:33:19,845 --> 00:33:23,685
Speaker 2: of grows up before he but uh no, there's no

564
00:33:23,805 --> 00:33:27,005
Speaker 2: there's no interiority at all. But he's a very expressive kid.

565
00:33:27,245 --> 00:33:29,325
Speaker 2: And and and it's edited in such a way that

566
00:33:29,485 --> 00:33:31,205
Speaker 2: you kind of get to feel, you know, you can

567
00:33:31,325 --> 00:33:32,805
Speaker 2: kind of get the sense of what he's speaking. But

568
00:33:32,925 --> 00:33:35,205
Speaker 2: actually it's show that the Assassin is so weird, because

569
00:33:35,245 --> 00:33:37,885
Speaker 2: it is in some ways, you know, like I said,

570
00:33:37,925 --> 00:33:41,845
Speaker 2: a basteardization of this material. But I find that voiceover

571
00:33:41,965 --> 00:33:44,725
Speaker 2: kind of haunting. He's a it's a child of Jim Evans,

572
00:33:44,725 --> 00:33:47,285
Speaker 2: who's a poster and album cover artist who did the

573
00:33:47,285 --> 00:33:49,405
Speaker 2: poster for this. So I don't know, you know, I

574
00:33:49,445 --> 00:33:51,485
Speaker 2: don't know that he actually did anything else, but it's

575
00:33:51,605 --> 00:33:53,805
Speaker 2: it is I saw others are compared to as you

576
00:33:53,965 --> 00:33:57,165
Speaker 2: just did, Tasha Delinda Man's and in Days of Heaven. Uh,

577
00:33:57,325 --> 00:33:59,965
Speaker 2: that's sort of like this naive child comedy on action

578
00:34:00,125 --> 00:34:02,885
Speaker 2: that that he doesn't he's only kind of understands later

579
00:34:02,965 --> 00:34:05,805
Speaker 2: from a distance. Yeah, it's an interesting addition. And I

580
00:34:05,845 --> 00:34:07,805
Speaker 2: also know it so well because of Kill Bill and

581
00:34:07,965 --> 00:34:11,805
Speaker 2: and and the Jizz album Liquid Swords, which just samples

582
00:34:11,844 --> 00:34:13,245
Speaker 2: it all over the album.

583
00:34:13,605 --> 00:34:18,285
Speaker 7: Yeah. I actually loved the voiceover in this movie. I

584
00:34:18,325 --> 00:34:22,125
Speaker 7: actually thought it was very effective, and in fact, I

585
00:34:22,765 --> 00:34:26,805
Speaker 7: when I watched afterwards, when I went and watched Lone

586
00:34:26,844 --> 00:34:31,045
Speaker 7: Wolf and Cub sort of vengeance, I kind of missed it.

587
00:34:31,325 --> 00:34:36,005
Speaker 7: I felt like the movie almost worked better with the voiceover,

588
00:34:36,325 --> 00:34:41,605
Speaker 7: And at the risk of being a little heretical and

589
00:34:41,725 --> 00:34:44,725
Speaker 7: maybe jumping ahead of our conversation a little bit, I

590
00:34:45,565 --> 00:34:51,285
Speaker 7: did find myself kind of enjoying Showgun Assassin more than

591
00:34:51,805 --> 00:34:56,565
Speaker 7: the quote unquote real the actual Lone Wolf and Cub movie.

592
00:34:57,165 --> 00:35:01,165
Speaker 7: And a big reason why was that voiceover, which I

593
00:35:01,365 --> 00:35:05,125
Speaker 7: just found so haunting. The voice is. It's such a

594
00:35:05,285 --> 00:35:11,845
Speaker 7: great performance of this voiceover, and it's it's it's the

595
00:35:12,005 --> 00:35:14,925
Speaker 7: voice and also what they're saying. I mean, some of

596
00:35:15,045 --> 00:35:18,805
Speaker 7: the things that he says are so they're kind of

597
00:35:18,965 --> 00:35:23,045
Speaker 7: like beautiful almost accident poetry. I mean, like I have

598
00:35:23,205 --> 00:35:24,765
Speaker 7: some of them in my notes here. I mean here,

599
00:35:25,085 --> 00:35:26,165
Speaker 7: I wrote this one down.

600
00:35:26,645 --> 00:35:32,005
Speaker 8: Ew Sometimes we come to a town, but it's bad

601
00:35:32,285 --> 00:35:36,925
Speaker 8: for us because we're not like other people.

602
00:35:38,725 --> 00:35:41,765
Speaker 7: I mean, that's it's like it's poetry. It almost sounds

603
00:35:41,885 --> 00:35:45,884
Speaker 7: like a haiku or something. It's observational, but it also

604
00:35:46,045 --> 00:35:48,565
Speaker 7: there is a some sort of poetry to it. And

605
00:35:49,285 --> 00:35:53,245
Speaker 7: there are other points where the narrator is talking about

606
00:35:54,365 --> 00:35:56,765
Speaker 7: you know, it sounds like a child, but there is

607
00:35:56,885 --> 00:36:00,125
Speaker 7: some aspect of it that the child is looking back

608
00:36:00,405 --> 00:36:03,845
Speaker 7: on what has happened, and so it calls into question

609
00:36:04,085 --> 00:36:06,725
Speaker 7: like who is actually speaking and how old are they?

610
00:36:07,205 --> 00:36:09,005
Speaker 7: And then he says something like I.

611
00:36:09,125 --> 00:36:14,245
Speaker 8: Don't remember most of this myself. I only remember the

612
00:36:14,405 --> 00:36:20,725
Speaker 8: Showgun's Ninja hunting us wherever we go, and the bah

613
00:36:21,205 --> 00:36:24,605
Speaker 8: He's falling in the blood.

614
00:36:25,965 --> 00:36:31,125
Speaker 7: So then you're going like what who exactly is or

615
00:36:31,245 --> 00:36:33,605
Speaker 7: we I guess we know who, but like what exactly

616
00:36:33,805 --> 00:36:37,165
Speaker 7: are we watching? Are these memories? Are they half remembered things?

617
00:36:37,765 --> 00:36:41,205
Speaker 7: Is it a story that's being told is it a dream?

618
00:36:42,605 --> 00:36:45,845
Speaker 7: If he doesn't remember what we're seeing, how do are

619
00:36:45,925 --> 00:36:46,884
Speaker 7: we seeing these things?

620
00:36:47,045 --> 00:36:49,805
Speaker 3: Not to mention, if he is narrating from some you know,

621
00:36:50,005 --> 00:36:52,765
Speaker 3: future vantage point where he had more of this information,

622
00:36:53,285 --> 00:36:55,765
Speaker 3: how old is he at that point, because you're still

623
00:36:55,805 --> 00:36:58,085
Speaker 3: getting the child perspective.

624
00:36:58,485 --> 00:36:58,845
Speaker 2: I don't know.

625
00:36:58,925 --> 00:37:01,965
Speaker 7: It adds to the sort of dream like quality of

626
00:37:02,085 --> 00:37:06,365
Speaker 7: the movie that I really found very effective and appealing. Actually,

627
00:37:06,805 --> 00:37:10,045
Speaker 7: the other thing that I felt about Showgun Assassin watching

628
00:37:10,165 --> 00:37:15,205
Speaker 7: it in the context of then watching the first actual

629
00:37:15,325 --> 00:37:18,685
Speaker 7: Lone Wolf and Cub movie and seeing, you know, the

630
00:37:18,805 --> 00:37:24,245
Speaker 7: way that they've chopped out so much of the plot,

631
00:37:24,525 --> 00:37:29,685
Speaker 7: and it's really it is just the paces is so intense.

632
00:37:29,765 --> 00:37:32,485
Speaker 7: They're just you know, moving and moving and moving, and

633
00:37:32,765 --> 00:37:35,485
Speaker 7: every couple of minutes there's another fight scene and action beat,

634
00:37:35,965 --> 00:37:39,165
Speaker 7: a new opponent to get into a sword fight.

635
00:37:39,285 --> 00:37:39,325
Speaker 5: With.

636
00:37:40,285 --> 00:37:43,725
Speaker 7: The vibe of it is almost because it is combined

637
00:37:43,765 --> 00:37:46,085
Speaker 7: from multiple movies. It started making me thinking, this is

638
00:37:46,165 --> 00:37:51,085
Speaker 7: almost like the movie equivalent of a Greatest Hits album.

639
00:37:51,685 --> 00:37:56,805
Speaker 7: And again, this is possibly another heretical thing for me

640
00:37:56,965 --> 00:38:01,845
Speaker 7: to say and admit on a podcast, but I know

641
00:38:01,925 --> 00:38:06,365
Speaker 7: I'm supposed to like listening to the albums. But sometimes

642
00:38:06,405 --> 00:38:09,484
Speaker 7: I like a greatest hits, I'll put on a greatest hits.

643
00:38:09,565 --> 00:38:09,685
Speaker 5: You know.

644
00:38:09,765 --> 00:38:13,725
Speaker 7: If I want to listen to Journey, I'm not putting

645
00:38:13,765 --> 00:38:16,765
Speaker 7: on Escape. I'm putting on Journey's greatest tits.

646
00:38:16,845 --> 00:38:17,005
Speaker 5: You know.

647
00:38:17,125 --> 00:38:20,765
Speaker 7: If I want to listen to Huey Lewis in the News,

648
00:38:21,325 --> 00:38:22,725
Speaker 7: I'm not putting on Sports.

649
00:38:23,125 --> 00:38:25,045
Speaker 2: But sports is kind of like all hits.

650
00:38:25,925 --> 00:38:27,885
Speaker 7: Maybe I might put on sports. Sports is pretty good,

651
00:38:27,925 --> 00:38:31,245
Speaker 7: but I might also be putting on time Flies, the

652
00:38:31,285 --> 00:38:33,125
Speaker 7: best of hue Lewis in the News. That's the one

653
00:38:33,205 --> 00:38:35,444
Speaker 7: I like. And if I you know, if I want

654
00:38:35,445 --> 00:38:37,565
Speaker 7: to listen to Steely Dan, okay, forget it. If I'm

655
00:38:37,605 --> 00:38:40,404
Speaker 7: listening to Steely Dan, yes, I am listening to every

656
00:38:40,405 --> 00:38:42,285
Speaker 7: album in order, starting with camp by a Thrill and

657
00:38:42,365 --> 00:38:45,205
Speaker 7: going up to Gaucho. But that is really the exception

658
00:38:46,005 --> 00:38:49,005
Speaker 7: that proves the rule. And it really made me think, like,

659
00:38:49,685 --> 00:38:54,125
Speaker 7: do we need more movies that are like this, that

660
00:38:54,245 --> 00:38:59,364
Speaker 7: are like greatest hits compilations of franchises? And maybe it's

661
00:38:59,405 --> 00:39:02,165
Speaker 7: a terrible idea, but it did make me start wondering,

662
00:39:02,325 --> 00:39:07,365
Speaker 7: are there other properties that we could apply this approach to.

663
00:39:07,725 --> 00:39:10,565
Speaker 7: I can't think of too many prior examples of this

664
00:39:10,845 --> 00:39:13,965
Speaker 7: other than this, maybe you would count maybe the Godfather saga.

665
00:39:14,045 --> 00:39:17,685
Speaker 7: I don't know, but I don't know. I thought this

666
00:39:18,045 --> 00:39:20,725
Speaker 7: was well done. I know I should probably think it

667
00:39:20,885 --> 00:39:25,645
Speaker 7: is is, you know, a bastardization and exploitation. But I

668
00:39:25,765 --> 00:39:29,005
Speaker 7: thought it was done with a lot of uh skill,

669
00:39:29,165 --> 00:39:32,325
Speaker 7: and a lot of care and and and I thought

670
00:39:32,365 --> 00:39:34,805
Speaker 7: they did a pretty good job of taking what they

671
00:39:34,845 --> 00:39:39,045
Speaker 7: were given here and and and making it into this

672
00:39:39,365 --> 00:39:41,445
Speaker 7: again like kind of like a Greatest Hits movie. I

673
00:39:41,805 --> 00:39:42,485
Speaker 7: kind of liked it.

674
00:39:42,845 --> 00:39:44,765
Speaker 2: Well. I can tell by Tasha's face that she may

675
00:39:44,845 --> 00:39:47,005
Speaker 2: feel differently. But before we hear about that, we need

676
00:39:47,085 --> 00:39:49,045
Speaker 2: to take a quick break. We'll be right back to

677
00:39:49,125 --> 00:40:02,805
Speaker 2: talk more Showgun Assassin again. We're back, Okay, Tasha, you

678
00:40:02,845 --> 00:40:05,565
Speaker 2: seem unconvinced by Matt's Greatest Hits argument. Let's hear it.

679
00:40:05,925 --> 00:40:09,645
Speaker 3: Yeah, congratulations Matt on being the Scott stand in for

680
00:40:09,765 --> 00:40:13,805
Speaker 3: this episode. I I gotta disagree with somebody about something orright,

681
00:40:13,885 --> 00:40:17,165
Speaker 3: what am I even doing here? My one objection to

682
00:40:17,765 --> 00:40:21,485
Speaker 3: Showgun Assassin, which I called Samurai Assassin or earlier, and

683
00:40:21,685 --> 00:40:26,165
Speaker 3: I thought about, like, you know, dropping in just as

684
00:40:26,245 --> 00:40:28,205
Speaker 3: a thing that we do sometimes. I could have just

685
00:40:28,285 --> 00:40:30,565
Speaker 3: said showgun assassin a few times, and they could have

686
00:40:31,485 --> 00:40:33,885
Speaker 3: could have cut over that. But I am wondering if

687
00:40:33,965 --> 00:40:37,925
Speaker 3: the title here of this you know, cut together Redo,

688
00:40:38,205 --> 00:40:42,165
Speaker 3: was influenced by nineteen sixty five's to share my fuine movie,

689
00:40:42,765 --> 00:40:46,045
Speaker 3: Samurai Assassin, if there was sort of an intention there

690
00:40:46,565 --> 00:40:51,045
Speaker 3: to to call back to an earlier known movie. But

691
00:40:52,405 --> 00:40:55,845
Speaker 3: to me, I really did feel kind of the loss

692
00:40:56,005 --> 00:41:00,365
Speaker 3: of the story elements here. You you mentioned kind of

693
00:41:00,685 --> 00:41:06,005
Speaker 3: getting these like haunting, like poetic elements from Degoro, and

694
00:41:06,365 --> 00:41:09,165
Speaker 3: I agree with that. The one that stood out for me.

695
00:41:09,245 --> 00:41:11,844
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do the little child voice, because uh,

696
00:41:12,125 --> 00:41:15,405
Speaker 3: come on, you gotta do it, do I do? All right,

697
00:41:15,925 --> 00:41:17,365
Speaker 3: give me a sample again. We'll see if I can

698
00:41:17,445 --> 00:41:17,685
Speaker 3: get there.

699
00:41:17,805 --> 00:41:19,844
Speaker 7: Okay, Oh hold on, let me find it here, all right.

700
00:41:21,605 --> 00:41:25,925
Speaker 8: Sometimes we come to a town, but it's bad for

701
00:41:26,205 --> 00:41:30,405
Speaker 8: us because we're not like other people.

702
00:41:31,485 --> 00:41:34,125
Speaker 3: This sounds like your newt voice. Okay, let me let

703
00:41:34,165 --> 00:41:36,685
Speaker 3: me see if I can find this. My father tells

704
00:41:36,805 --> 00:41:39,325
Speaker 3: me not to count the number of ninjas he's killed,

705
00:41:39,445 --> 00:41:41,965
Speaker 3: and just to pray for their souls. But if I

706
00:41:42,085 --> 00:41:44,645
Speaker 3: don't count how many he kills, how will I know

707
00:41:44,725 --> 00:41:47,884
Speaker 3: how many souls to pray for. So far, he's killed

708
00:41:47,925 --> 00:41:51,725
Speaker 3: three hundred and forty five, several women ninjas get hacked

709
00:41:51,725 --> 00:41:55,085
Speaker 3: into pieces three hundred and forty eight. It's just the

710
00:41:55,325 --> 00:42:00,885
Speaker 3: the almost like blank eyed updating all the number, like

711
00:42:01,005 --> 00:42:04,205
Speaker 3: the just the complete lack of not lack of emotion,

712
00:42:04,365 --> 00:42:07,845
Speaker 3: because there is a sort of what would you call it,

713
00:42:07,925 --> 00:42:11,685
Speaker 3: almost like philosophical sadness, the same kind of philosophical sadness

714
00:42:11,725 --> 00:42:16,245
Speaker 3: that would let somebody kill three hundred and fifty people

715
00:42:16,485 --> 00:42:19,844
Speaker 3: and then pray for their souls. Dagoro is just kind

716
00:42:19,885 --> 00:42:22,325
Speaker 3: of you know, this is just a fact of life.

717
00:42:22,445 --> 00:42:26,605
Speaker 3: Father just kills hundreds of people, and then that being

718
00:42:26,685 --> 00:42:28,885
Speaker 3: part of a sequence where he's just walking down the

719
00:42:29,005 --> 00:42:32,525
Speaker 3: road being attacked by women disguised as ordinary things and

720
00:42:32,685 --> 00:42:34,965
Speaker 3: killing them and just continue to walk like.

721
00:42:35,725 --> 00:42:36,325
Speaker 2: All of that.

722
00:42:37,005 --> 00:42:40,525
Speaker 3: I think it's just so haunting. I wanted more of that.

723
00:42:41,725 --> 00:42:48,085
Speaker 3: The sword play here is really dynamic and interesting and exciting,

724
00:42:48,765 --> 00:42:52,525
Speaker 3: but there were times, especially towards the end, you know,

725
00:42:52,605 --> 00:42:55,445
Speaker 3: as we led up to the merchants of death and

726
00:42:55,525 --> 00:42:57,205
Speaker 3: the big fight, where it's like, yeah, but I mean,

727
00:42:57,325 --> 00:43:00,925
Speaker 3: I've already seen him hack up so many people that

728
00:43:01,005 --> 00:43:05,245
Speaker 3: we were told were you know, superstars at hacking people up.

729
00:43:07,005 --> 00:43:09,605
Speaker 3: I don't see any challenge here. The challenge is going

730
00:43:09,645 --> 00:43:12,525
Speaker 3: to be, like, how do you make this dynamic? Even

731
00:43:12,605 --> 00:43:15,404
Speaker 3: this dynamic is the fight that immediately precedes it, where

732
00:43:15,485 --> 00:43:19,365
Speaker 3: said merchants of death just start stabbing the sand and

733
00:43:19,485 --> 00:43:21,765
Speaker 3: then the sand wells up with blood because they have

734
00:43:21,965 --> 00:43:25,605
Speaker 3: intuited that they're people hiding underneath it. You know, I

735
00:43:25,765 --> 00:43:32,685
Speaker 3: wanted more story to go with the hacking up. Digro's

736
00:43:33,005 --> 00:43:36,445
Speaker 3: voiceover almost completely disappears from like the second half of

737
00:43:36,525 --> 00:43:38,605
Speaker 3: the movie. He comes back in at the very end,

738
00:43:39,525 --> 00:43:42,445
Speaker 3: and I kind of ended up missing that element. As

739
00:43:42,645 --> 00:43:45,325
Speaker 3: much as I'm not a fan of voiceover, the outside

740
00:43:45,405 --> 00:43:49,645
Speaker 3: perspective was interesting, and when we lose that and just

741
00:43:49,765 --> 00:43:52,364
Speaker 3: get I also would really like to know why he's

742
00:43:52,445 --> 00:43:58,565
Speaker 3: knocking on his father's chest when his naked father has

743
00:43:58,645 --> 00:44:00,965
Speaker 3: just ripped all the clothing off of a woman in

744
00:44:01,165 --> 00:44:04,205
Speaker 3: order to force her to help keep Daigo warm.

745
00:44:04,565 --> 00:44:07,605
Speaker 2: I think was it was a difference between his chest

746
00:44:07,765 --> 00:44:10,525
Speaker 2: and the woman's chest. I think it was a child

747
00:44:10,645 --> 00:44:12,765
Speaker 2: kind of exploring the difference between the two bodies.

748
00:44:13,605 --> 00:44:16,605
Speaker 3: I guess I don't think that comes across either in

749
00:44:16,645 --> 00:44:20,285
Speaker 3: the performance or the staging particularly well, it's just like

750
00:44:20,405 --> 00:44:23,245
Speaker 3: a long, long moment of like staring his father's wet,

751
00:44:23,365 --> 00:44:24,565
Speaker 3: dripping chest and then.

752
00:44:25,365 --> 00:44:27,925
Speaker 2: Scene of him breastfeeding as an infant. So I think

753
00:44:27,925 --> 00:44:30,125
Speaker 2: it might be a callback to that, although I couldn't

754
00:44:30,285 --> 00:44:31,005
Speaker 2: say for sure.

755
00:44:31,885 --> 00:44:34,845
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did sort of think that that was a callback,

756
00:44:34,925 --> 00:44:39,285
Speaker 3: and I was expecting maybe it is possible that that's

757
00:44:39,325 --> 00:44:42,405
Speaker 3: sort of what makes her soften a little in that scene,

758
00:44:42,525 --> 00:44:46,085
Speaker 3: is she she gets some of that element herself, and

759
00:44:46,245 --> 00:44:50,805
Speaker 3: that's why she lets go of the sword or relaxes

760
00:44:50,925 --> 00:44:55,845
Speaker 3: into this very unnecessarily uncomfortable situation.

761
00:44:56,525 --> 00:44:59,325
Speaker 2: They had but body heat to keep them warm. Tasha

762
00:44:59,565 --> 00:45:01,445
Speaker 2: just it's just, yeah, it's a.

763
00:45:01,605 --> 00:45:05,205
Speaker 3: Huge it's a huge fanfic trope. I'm kind of into it.

764
00:45:05,845 --> 00:45:08,965
Speaker 3: In most of the most of the stories that I've

765
00:45:09,045 --> 00:45:11,925
Speaker 3: read where two people who maybe don't know each other

766
00:45:12,045 --> 00:45:14,245
Speaker 3: or don't like each other much have to take off

767
00:45:14,285 --> 00:45:16,645
Speaker 3: all of their clothing and get into a sleeping bag

768
00:45:16,725 --> 00:45:19,805
Speaker 3: together or whatever, it doesn't start with a band throwing

769
00:45:21,205 --> 00:45:23,445
Speaker 3: the woman to the ground, ripping off all of her

770
00:45:23,525 --> 00:45:27,924
Speaker 3: clothing without explaining anything, and then drawing her into a hug.

771
00:45:28,405 --> 00:45:31,565
Speaker 3: That was just you know, wait, when didn't we just

772
00:45:31,645 --> 00:45:35,005
Speaker 3: see that movie recently when we when we did Swept Away.

773
00:45:35,565 --> 00:45:38,685
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of kind of. Yeah, I mean, if I

774
00:45:38,765 --> 00:45:41,045
Speaker 2: if I told you this has the stretch of Lone

775
00:45:41,085 --> 00:45:43,645
Speaker 2: Wolf and Cobb. The film series anyways has some of

776
00:45:43,885 --> 00:45:46,445
Speaker 2: the least amount of like uncomfortable sexual stuff in it.

777
00:45:46,485 --> 00:45:48,404
Speaker 2: Would you believe me? I would?

778
00:45:48,925 --> 00:45:49,125
Speaker 5: Yeah.

779
00:45:49,285 --> 00:45:52,045
Speaker 2: Third one is rough on that on that front, but

780
00:45:52,205 --> 00:45:53,885
Speaker 2: we're not talking about the third one talking about this one.

781
00:45:53,965 --> 00:45:56,725
Speaker 2: And it's an odd moment sort of the idea the

782
00:45:56,845 --> 00:45:59,285
Speaker 2: threat of sexual violence kind of hangs over a lot

783
00:45:59,405 --> 00:46:02,045
Speaker 2: of the film less explicitly, I think in the Showgun

784
00:46:02,085 --> 00:46:05,885
Speaker 2: Assassin version. So it is, it is strange, and it

785
00:46:06,045 --> 00:46:07,645
Speaker 2: is also like, I don't know if we know the

786
00:46:07,805 --> 00:46:10,885
Speaker 2: character's name other than Supreme Ninja. She she's played by

787
00:46:11,045 --> 00:46:13,645
Speaker 2: Cao Mitsuo in the film and in the American Dove

788
00:46:13,685 --> 00:46:16,045
Speaker 2: the voice is Saunder Bernhard. I believe it or not,

789
00:46:16,805 --> 00:46:18,485
Speaker 2: but I believe it.

790
00:46:18,525 --> 00:46:20,885
Speaker 3: When I saw her in the credits, I just had

791
00:46:20,885 --> 00:46:24,165
Speaker 3: a moment of that is a really random choice. And

792
00:46:24,245 --> 00:46:25,765
Speaker 3: I know exactly who she must have been.

793
00:46:25,925 --> 00:46:29,525
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But she's kind of like just

794
00:46:29,645 --> 00:46:33,565
Speaker 2: kind of left to be a sort of wandering spirit

795
00:46:33,645 --> 00:46:35,205
Speaker 2: by the end of the film too. She doesn't really

796
00:46:35,245 --> 00:46:37,485
Speaker 2: have anything to do, does She doesn't have any where

797
00:46:37,525 --> 00:46:39,565
Speaker 2: to go because she can't really be in Ninja anymore.

798
00:46:39,685 --> 00:46:41,725
Speaker 2: There's really no place for her in society. It's kind

799
00:46:41,725 --> 00:46:43,645
Speaker 2: of a lonely, kind of a lonely, sad character.

800
00:46:43,765 --> 00:46:47,165
Speaker 3: Ultimately, well, as Digoro tells us, there's nothing for her

801
00:46:47,285 --> 00:46:49,845
Speaker 3: to do but go commit Harry Carrey at the hands

802
00:46:49,845 --> 00:46:51,285
Speaker 3: of the at the showgun.

803
00:46:51,805 --> 00:46:54,085
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a you're doing it. You're doing a great

804
00:46:54,125 --> 00:46:56,005
Speaker 7: job with it. I do want to point out the

805
00:46:56,365 --> 00:46:59,045
Speaker 7: moment you cited earlier with the counting of the dead

806
00:46:59,445 --> 00:47:03,805
Speaker 7: Ninja that his father has killed, a great moment when

807
00:47:03,845 --> 00:47:07,165
Speaker 7: he kills three more people and adds three more The

808
00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:10,125
Speaker 7: voiceover even has like when he reads the new number,

809
00:47:10,205 --> 00:47:13,525
Speaker 7: there's even like a slight pause, like a child is

810
00:47:13,605 --> 00:47:16,645
Speaker 7: trying to do a complicated math in his head. He's

811
00:47:16,725 --> 00:47:22,325
Speaker 7: like three hundred and forty five, struggling with it, which

812
00:47:22,845 --> 00:47:24,725
Speaker 7: I mean that I laughed out loud. I was like,

813
00:47:24,805 --> 00:47:28,565
Speaker 7: that's a really kind of it's a dark joke. It

814
00:47:28,725 --> 00:47:31,245
Speaker 7: fits the tone of at least the movie that they

815
00:47:31,285 --> 00:47:34,765
Speaker 7: are recutting here, if not the original film feels like

816
00:47:34,845 --> 00:47:37,565
Speaker 7: something out of like a Clint Eastwood Man with no

817
00:47:37,725 --> 00:47:40,125
Speaker 7: Name movie. That's sort of you know, you know, when

818
00:47:40,125 --> 00:47:43,165
Speaker 7: he's telling the Undertaker how many coffins to make that

819
00:47:43,325 --> 00:47:47,405
Speaker 7: kind of a joke like super dark, super bleak humor,

820
00:47:47,805 --> 00:47:51,245
Speaker 7: but it sort of works in this movie. And when

821
00:47:51,285 --> 00:47:54,485
Speaker 7: we're talking about, you know, the scene with where they're

822
00:47:54,565 --> 00:47:58,845
Speaker 7: huddling for warmth, it's it's making me think that I

823
00:47:58,925 --> 00:48:03,205
Speaker 7: do want to talk about the actor who plays Lone Wolf,

824
00:48:03,245 --> 00:48:07,325
Speaker 7: Ogami Eto Tomas Oburrow Wakayama. I think is his is

825
00:48:07,365 --> 00:48:13,444
Speaker 7: the actor's name, and I do really enjoy that this guy,

826
00:48:13,845 --> 00:48:16,165
Speaker 7: you know, I just mentioned Clint Eastwood. He has the

827
00:48:16,365 --> 00:48:19,245
Speaker 7: you know, like the smolder of a Clint Eastwood type.

828
00:48:19,245 --> 00:48:20,885
Speaker 7: He has like the kind of the presence, the in

829
00:48:21,125 --> 00:48:25,125
Speaker 7: tensity of that sort of actor. But but the when

830
00:48:25,125 --> 00:48:29,605
Speaker 7: we're talking about like physical looks, handsomeness, he's not quite

831
00:48:29,685 --> 00:48:33,405
Speaker 7: on that level. You know, he's not ripped, he's not

832
00:48:33,805 --> 00:48:36,805
Speaker 7: a shredded he doesn't look like he's spending all day

833
00:48:37,045 --> 00:48:37,645
Speaker 7: in the gym.

834
00:48:38,085 --> 00:48:40,565
Speaker 3: In scenes got three chins, you can just say he's

835
00:48:40,605 --> 00:48:41,485
Speaker 3: got three chins.

836
00:48:41,765 --> 00:48:45,285
Speaker 7: But but to me, like I really kind of within

837
00:48:45,365 --> 00:48:48,645
Speaker 7: a few minutes, I really embraced that because this is

838
00:48:48,685 --> 00:48:51,325
Speaker 7: it's like such a he's such a dad. This is

839
00:48:51,365 --> 00:48:54,645
Speaker 7: a movie about a dad, and this is the like

840
00:48:54,885 --> 00:49:02,045
Speaker 7: ultimate dad boad dad hero as a dad. You know,

841
00:49:02,245 --> 00:49:06,005
Speaker 7: like there's something very aspirationable and likable about this guy

842
00:49:06,085 --> 00:49:09,925
Speaker 7: who doesn't look like when he's just standing there that

843
00:49:10,045 --> 00:49:12,805
Speaker 7: he would be able to wipe out an army of ninja.

844
00:49:13,325 --> 00:49:16,765
Speaker 7: But but the fact that he like can like suddenly

845
00:49:16,885 --> 00:49:20,885
Speaker 7: spring into action and and and when he does these fights,

846
00:49:20,885 --> 00:49:27,125
Speaker 7: he has these kind of beautiful, fast, graceful athletic movements.

847
00:49:28,125 --> 00:49:32,045
Speaker 7: I think really again, as a as like a dad

848
00:49:32,285 --> 00:49:35,805
Speaker 7: canon movie, I think this really it really plays into

849
00:49:35,885 --> 00:49:38,765
Speaker 7: that aspect of the movie in the way that if

850
00:49:38,885 --> 00:49:43,205
Speaker 7: he was like an incredible physical specimen would actually make

851
00:49:43,245 --> 00:49:44,285
Speaker 7: it a weaker movie.

852
00:49:44,485 --> 00:49:49,325
Speaker 2: To quote the Jesus song Liquid Swords, he is both

853
00:49:49,805 --> 00:49:53,725
Speaker 2: a child educator and a head apputator, and I think,

854
00:49:53,765 --> 00:49:55,165
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's really wonderful that he can

855
00:49:55,245 --> 00:49:55,605
Speaker 2: do both.

856
00:49:56,045 --> 00:49:58,445
Speaker 7: Yes, get you a man who, get you a man

857
00:49:58,485 --> 00:50:00,205
Speaker 7: who I mean it's literally to get you a man

858
00:50:00,245 --> 00:50:02,125
Speaker 7: who can do both exactly exactly.

859
00:50:02,245 --> 00:50:05,844
Speaker 3: It's not just the tubbiness and the multiple chins though,

860
00:50:06,165 --> 00:50:10,285
Speaker 3: it's he's so disheveled at all times, like his his

861
00:50:10,405 --> 00:50:11,125
Speaker 3: hair looks like he.

862
00:50:11,205 --> 00:50:14,405
Speaker 7: Just hair is always out of place and wild.

863
00:50:14,565 --> 00:50:17,405
Speaker 3: Yes, and his he's he's got like a perpetual like

864
00:50:17,605 --> 00:50:20,844
Speaker 3: five o'clock shadow. It's just not the image that we're

865
00:50:21,125 --> 00:50:24,005
Speaker 3: used to of Samurai from Samurai movies.

866
00:50:25,245 --> 00:50:27,405
Speaker 2: Be easily available to him.

867
00:50:28,365 --> 00:50:29,285
Speaker 7: It's a low priority.

868
00:50:29,405 --> 00:50:31,085
Speaker 2: He's walking the demon path in hell.

869
00:50:32,005 --> 00:50:35,765
Speaker 3: At the same time, his son has like a perfectly

870
00:50:35,885 --> 00:50:40,925
Speaker 3: shaved tonsier, like the tiny little like sideburns are just

871
00:50:41,045 --> 00:50:44,845
Speaker 3: so like razor sharp cut. His his head is cleanly

872
00:50:44,965 --> 00:50:47,005
Speaker 3: shaved at all times, you know, with a little uh,

873
00:50:47,445 --> 00:50:50,725
Speaker 3: the little top nut cut out like the idea. Again,

874
00:50:50,765 --> 00:50:53,765
Speaker 3: this is very dad movie. You know, he is very

875
00:50:53,885 --> 00:50:58,405
Speaker 3: clearly taking the time to manage the hygiene for his

876
00:50:58,525 --> 00:51:00,605
Speaker 3: son that he's not managing for himself, you know, to

877
00:51:00,925 --> 00:51:04,885
Speaker 3: to keep him, you know, cleanly shaved and taken care of.

878
00:51:05,005 --> 00:51:07,485
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there's there's an attention to detail

879
00:51:08,405 --> 00:51:11,485
Speaker 3: in that hairstyle, which is which is not a I

880
00:51:11,645 --> 00:51:14,605
Speaker 3: slept in, got up in the morning and threw something

881
00:51:14,685 --> 00:51:18,605
Speaker 3: together like kind of hairstyle. You know, he's keeping up

882
00:51:18,645 --> 00:51:21,165
Speaker 3: Samurai standards for his son, even if he isn't keying

883
00:51:21,205 --> 00:51:25,805
Speaker 3: them up for himself. And that perpetual like kind of

884
00:51:26,485 --> 00:51:30,205
Speaker 3: muppety pressed in scowl that he wears at all times,

885
00:51:30,925 --> 00:51:32,645
Speaker 3: it seems to be sort of part of that. You know,

886
00:51:33,165 --> 00:51:36,805
Speaker 3: he really does look like the facial expression that Jim

887
00:51:36,845 --> 00:51:39,725
Speaker 3: Henson would put on like Kermit the Frog, just by

888
00:51:39,965 --> 00:51:43,325
Speaker 3: squishing his fingers together to compress his lips. Like his

889
00:51:43,805 --> 00:51:47,245
Speaker 3: eyes are always like like narrowed in irritation, and his

890
00:51:48,165 --> 00:51:50,805
Speaker 3: lips are always pressed together. His whole face just kind

891
00:51:50,805 --> 00:51:55,685
Speaker 3: of looks scrunched in anger, and like the contrast between

892
00:51:55,725 --> 00:51:58,645
Speaker 3: going back and forth between that and his son's just

893
00:51:58,765 --> 00:52:04,525
Speaker 3: kind of like wide eyed, open innocence. It is like

894
00:52:04,685 --> 00:52:07,165
Speaker 3: a little tension that runs throughout this movie that I

895
00:52:07,245 --> 00:52:12,285
Speaker 3: really enjoy. So while we're talking about general hygiene and

896
00:52:12,685 --> 00:52:15,364
Speaker 3: taking care of your hair and or your son's hair

897
00:52:16,085 --> 00:52:18,645
Speaker 3: and or your dad bod in general, can I just

898
00:52:18,725 --> 00:52:22,125
Speaker 3: bring up I don't think I've ever seen another Samurai movie,

899
00:52:22,245 --> 00:52:27,085
Speaker 3: I guess ron is coming to mind, but the presentation

900
00:52:27,245 --> 00:52:31,965
Speaker 3: of the Showgun, particularly in the way that a Samurai

901
00:52:32,045 --> 00:52:37,565
Speaker 3: movie would normally portray like the sake drinking lunatic that

902
00:52:37,885 --> 00:52:40,085
Speaker 3: when most of the movie passed out in an alley

903
00:52:41,245 --> 00:52:46,165
Speaker 3: or possibly like the cracked drunken Master is really striking

904
00:52:46,245 --> 00:52:49,165
Speaker 3: to me. You know, he's like he's wild haired and

905
00:52:49,405 --> 00:52:52,845
Speaker 3: snaggly toothed, and whenever he shows up, he's kind of

906
00:52:52,925 --> 00:52:55,685
Speaker 3: like rolling his eyes in a big comic way. Like

907
00:52:56,245 --> 00:53:00,565
Speaker 3: this movie really feels like an attack on the idea

908
00:53:00,605 --> 00:53:04,085
Speaker 3: of the shogunate in a way that you know, even

909
00:53:04,285 --> 00:53:08,445
Speaker 3: even movies that portray the shogunate as as corrupt or

910
00:53:08,605 --> 00:53:13,565
Speaker 3: insular or abusive in power or dishonorable or whatever, don't

911
00:53:13,645 --> 00:53:16,725
Speaker 3: usually go to this kind of like particularly cartoony direction

912
00:53:16,885 --> 00:53:17,085
Speaker 3: with it.

913
00:53:17,605 --> 00:53:22,325
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because that's not the Showgun in the original cut.

914
00:53:22,925 --> 00:53:25,365
Speaker 2: So all that question of the showgunate is strictly in

915
00:53:25,365 --> 00:53:28,405
Speaker 2: an American edition. That is that is uh lone Wolf's

916
00:53:28,525 --> 00:53:31,685
Speaker 2: rival Retsudo. He is the head of the klan that

917
00:53:32,045 --> 00:53:36,325
Speaker 2: he schemes to get him removed as the samurai execution.

918
00:53:36,525 --> 00:53:40,245
Speaker 2: So that's an invention and certainly allows allows them that

919
00:53:40,285 --> 00:53:43,404
Speaker 2: great voice over life. They said, is now it's my turn?

920
00:53:43,765 --> 00:53:49,765
Speaker 2: They said his rain was infected by demons. But you know,

921
00:53:49,925 --> 00:53:53,165
Speaker 2: but so that's that. But it is an interesting question though,

922
00:53:53,205 --> 00:53:56,565
Speaker 2: because it's not a direct criticism in the original films.

923
00:53:56,605 --> 00:53:58,725
Speaker 2: It's not a direct criticism of the of the showgunate,

924
00:53:58,765 --> 00:54:01,525
Speaker 2: but has like a the attitude I sort of get

925
00:54:01,605 --> 00:54:03,605
Speaker 2: from it, and I think it's true in the Showgun

926
00:54:03,685 --> 00:54:07,525
Speaker 2: Assassin cut too. Just a little maybe a little less ambiguous,

927
00:54:07,805 --> 00:54:11,685
Speaker 2: is that that despite being a Ronan uh lone Wolf

928
00:54:11,805 --> 00:54:16,805
Speaker 2: uh is is an exemplar of samurai virtue in a

929
00:54:16,845 --> 00:54:20,245
Speaker 2: way that that people who are more respected aren't. So

930
00:54:20,365 --> 00:54:23,045
Speaker 2: there is sort of implicit criticism, but it's almost like,

931
00:54:24,605 --> 00:54:25,925
Speaker 2: you know, I've seen all six they all kind of

932
00:54:25,965 --> 00:54:28,645
Speaker 2: blur together. But but but you know this the Showgun

933
00:54:28,805 --> 00:54:30,845
Speaker 2: is usually at a distance. It's almost like, you know,

934
00:54:31,045 --> 00:54:33,285
Speaker 2: if only this are knew what what the what is

935
00:54:33,405 --> 00:54:36,165
Speaker 2: evil aids were doing for him? You know, all the

936
00:54:36,205 --> 00:54:40,485
Speaker 2: corruption is is on the vassals or the underlings of

937
00:54:40,725 --> 00:54:44,165
Speaker 2: the Yeah, exactly, and not on the less directly on

938
00:54:44,205 --> 00:54:45,525
Speaker 2: the Showgun himself.

939
00:54:45,885 --> 00:54:47,925
Speaker 3: Although the fact that all of these lords that we're

940
00:54:47,965 --> 00:54:51,445
Speaker 3: dealing with are the Showgun's sons and brothers and you

941
00:54:51,525 --> 00:54:55,645
Speaker 3: know first cousins have once removed though, seems significant, like

942
00:54:55,765 --> 00:54:57,965
Speaker 3: this is his entire family that's getting mown down.

943
00:54:58,285 --> 00:55:00,685
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's I guess it's complicated. I guess you know,

944
00:55:00,765 --> 00:55:03,245
Speaker 2: it's it's and I've seen other others make this contrast.

945
00:55:03,245 --> 00:55:05,525
Speaker 2: It's not an original observation of mind. But but you know,

946
00:55:05,565 --> 00:55:09,885
Speaker 2: there were films uh Jida Geki, you know, period films

947
00:55:10,245 --> 00:55:14,245
Speaker 2: that were starting to you know, question the samurai value

948
00:55:14,245 --> 00:55:18,605
Speaker 2: of the samurai honor system, like Harakiri, an excellent movie.

949
00:55:19,765 --> 00:55:22,565
Speaker 2: This is not quite that. But I don't think it's

950
00:55:22,885 --> 00:55:25,605
Speaker 2: entirely buying into the system either. I think it's maybe

951
00:55:25,685 --> 00:55:28,165
Speaker 2: somewhere in the middle. But I also, you know, I

952
00:55:28,565 --> 00:55:30,965
Speaker 2: can't speak to that definitively in a way that someone

953
00:55:31,125 --> 00:55:34,285
Speaker 2: with a better knowledge of sort of Japanese feudal history

954
00:55:34,925 --> 00:55:37,404
Speaker 2: and how it was interpreted in the twentieth century could,

955
00:55:37,485 --> 00:55:39,245
Speaker 2: But that was sort of my instinct.

956
00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:43,405
Speaker 7: Anyway, watching Showgun Assassin first and having that character presented

957
00:55:43,445 --> 00:55:47,205
Speaker 7: to me as the showgun, then going to watch sort

958
00:55:47,245 --> 00:55:51,205
Speaker 7: of Vengeance, it was somewhat confusing when when the movie

959
00:55:51,245 --> 00:55:54,085
Speaker 7: starts and he's portrayed, you know, he's presented as this

960
00:55:54,245 --> 00:55:58,325
Speaker 7: other head of a clan, a powerful clan that and

961
00:55:58,445 --> 00:56:02,045
Speaker 7: then the whole apparatus of you know, the killing of

962
00:56:02,965 --> 00:56:07,005
Speaker 7: Diego's father mother excuse me, and like why they are

963
00:56:07,085 --> 00:56:10,325
Speaker 7: off on this quest is totally it's you know, the

964
00:56:10,445 --> 00:56:13,325
Speaker 7: gist is the same as you know, he's out for vengeance,

965
00:56:13,405 --> 00:56:16,805
Speaker 7: but the whole like reasoning for it and who he's

966
00:56:16,925 --> 00:56:22,085
Speaker 7: trying to get vengeance against, and it's like it's complicated

967
00:56:22,285 --> 00:56:24,445
Speaker 7: in sort of vengeance, you know, And it's like a

968
00:56:25,085 --> 00:56:30,965
Speaker 7: very elaborate setup involving like religious shrines and and so

969
00:56:31,245 --> 00:56:33,965
Speaker 7: just going into it having just seen Showgun Assassin like

970
00:56:34,085 --> 00:56:37,285
Speaker 7: the day before and feeling like I had a good handle.

971
00:56:37,085 --> 00:56:37,645
Speaker 2: On it, I was.

972
00:56:37,805 --> 00:56:38,045
Speaker 5: It was.

973
00:56:38,325 --> 00:56:40,965
Speaker 7: I definitely had to like, Okay, I got to pay

974
00:56:41,005 --> 00:56:42,925
Speaker 7: more attention here, and I had to like rewind and

975
00:56:43,405 --> 00:56:45,685
Speaker 7: like try to like because I was not expecting to

976
00:56:45,805 --> 00:56:51,005
Speaker 7: car like the characters to have totally different identities. Now,

977
00:56:51,085 --> 00:56:55,045
Speaker 7: having said that, like it were, it's interesting and again

978
00:56:55,085 --> 00:56:59,645
Speaker 7: a compliment to the guys who compiled Showgun Assassin, Like,

979
00:57:00,245 --> 00:57:03,884
Speaker 7: I feel like it works perfectly well in that movie

980
00:57:03,965 --> 00:57:05,844
Speaker 7: the way that they set it up. Maybe again, if

981
00:57:05,885 --> 00:57:10,085
Speaker 7: you're more of an expert on the historical period that

982
00:57:10,245 --> 00:57:13,645
Speaker 7: they're depicting here, you might go, well, this is ludicrous,

983
00:57:13,765 --> 00:57:17,165
Speaker 7: this is unrealistic. But in a movie where there's a

984
00:57:17,245 --> 00:57:20,925
Speaker 7: baby cart that has like, you know, swords, and knives

985
00:57:21,085 --> 00:57:23,285
Speaker 7: that fly out of it at a push of a button,

986
00:57:23,805 --> 00:57:27,085
Speaker 7: and people who spray, you know, blood spraying out of

987
00:57:27,125 --> 00:57:30,965
Speaker 7: them like their water balloons. Maybe realism is not necessarily

988
00:57:31,045 --> 00:57:33,925
Speaker 7: the quality that needs to be measured. But I was

989
00:57:34,005 --> 00:57:36,885
Speaker 7: just kind of once I kind of got my head around,

990
00:57:36,925 --> 00:57:39,605
Speaker 7: and I was kind of impressed that the stories are

991
00:57:40,365 --> 00:57:43,085
Speaker 7: quite a bit different. But they both work even though

992
00:57:43,125 --> 00:57:45,885
Speaker 7: they use the same footage, just cut in different ways.

993
00:57:45,965 --> 00:57:50,405
Speaker 7: And then obviously Shogun Assassin, you know, has changed the

994
00:57:50,525 --> 00:57:53,925
Speaker 7: dialogue to reflect the story that they are telling. But

995
00:57:54,005 --> 00:57:56,405
Speaker 7: it is kind of an interesting, almost a magic trick.

996
00:57:56,565 --> 00:58:01,285
Speaker 2: If you keep going watching more. The front panels of

997
00:58:01,365 --> 00:58:04,485
Speaker 2: the baby cart come off and there's actually effectively in

998
00:58:04,525 --> 00:58:05,685
Speaker 2: a machine gun there.

999
00:58:07,645 --> 00:58:09,485
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm all for it when they you know,

1000
00:58:09,565 --> 00:58:11,525
Speaker 7: when that happens for the first time in the movie,

1001
00:58:11,565 --> 00:58:14,325
Speaker 7: I'm like, yes, absolutely, I love it. I want to

1002
00:58:14,365 --> 00:58:16,725
Speaker 7: see as many you know things, I don't ever want

1003
00:58:16,765 --> 00:58:19,765
Speaker 7: to see him, you know, tinkering. I don't want to

1004
00:58:19,885 --> 00:58:24,005
Speaker 7: montage where he's like has a ratchet and he's working

1005
00:58:24,125 --> 00:58:26,805
Speaker 7: on the wheels, or I just want him to be

1006
00:58:26,885 --> 00:58:27,685
Speaker 7: walking down the road.

1007
00:58:27,685 --> 00:58:27,765
Speaker 5: You know.

1008
00:58:27,845 --> 00:58:30,005
Speaker 7: It's almost like, you know, I was thinking It's like

1009
00:58:30,085 --> 00:58:32,885
Speaker 7: that middle section of Shogun Assassin where there are those

1010
00:58:33,005 --> 00:58:36,645
Speaker 7: moments where they're walking along the road, they encounter someone,

1011
00:58:36,925 --> 00:58:40,125
Speaker 7: they out of nowhere, attack them. They invariably have some

1012
00:58:40,285 --> 00:58:45,445
Speaker 7: sort of cool weapon, brief moment of violence, they emerge unscathed,

1013
00:58:45,685 --> 00:58:48,805
Speaker 7: they walk on. It's almost like a road Runner cartoon.

1014
00:58:48,845 --> 00:58:52,485
Speaker 7: There's almost like a quality of like a you know,

1015
00:58:52,645 --> 00:58:55,085
Speaker 7: the the coyote is showing up and he has a

1016
00:58:55,205 --> 00:58:57,405
Speaker 7: new trick up his sleeve that he just got from

1017
00:58:57,445 --> 00:59:00,645
Speaker 7: the Acme Corporation. But nope, you ain't gonna get anything

1018
00:59:00,725 --> 00:59:03,365
Speaker 7: on this Roadrunner. He's prepared, he's got stuff in his

1019
00:59:03,445 --> 00:59:06,885
Speaker 7: baby carriage you ain't ever seen before. And invariably again

1020
00:59:06,965 --> 00:59:10,045
Speaker 7: they they you know, win and survive and keep on moving.

1021
00:59:10,085 --> 00:59:12,605
Speaker 7: And then a few miles down the road there's another

1022
00:59:13,085 --> 00:59:15,365
Speaker 7: person who's ready to attack them. And I don't know

1023
00:59:15,445 --> 00:59:17,685
Speaker 7: if I'm if I'm making it sound like a criticism.

1024
00:59:17,805 --> 00:59:20,605
Speaker 7: I don't mean it as one. I thoroughly enjoyed all

1025
00:59:20,725 --> 00:59:23,925
Speaker 7: of the stuff. I was just very delighted by this movie.

1026
00:59:23,965 --> 00:59:26,805
Speaker 7: I could I understood why it was kind of a

1027
00:59:26,885 --> 00:59:30,645
Speaker 7: successful exploitation movie of its day, because I was just like,

1028
00:59:30,765 --> 00:59:34,245
Speaker 7: this is it's pure enjoyment. It's it's well assembled. The

1029
00:59:34,365 --> 00:59:38,325
Speaker 7: original material is so effectively shot and edited. It's a

1030
00:59:38,365 --> 00:59:38,925
Speaker 7: great time.

1031
00:59:39,565 --> 00:59:45,445
Speaker 3: I really liked the Dikon attack, yeah, with nice pie Dikon.

1032
00:59:46,125 --> 00:59:49,885
Speaker 3: I really didn't care for Movie eight where they they

1033
00:59:49,965 --> 00:59:52,245
Speaker 3: come under attack by way too many ninjas and the

1034
00:59:52,325 --> 00:59:56,165
Speaker 3: cart like unfolds into a mecca that surrounds Togoru and

1035
00:59:56,245 --> 00:59:59,845
Speaker 3: he just starts like shooting lasers and missiles at the ninja.

1036
01:00:00,165 --> 01:00:02,685
Speaker 3: That was pushing a little far from me. Okay, okay,

1037
01:00:03,485 --> 01:00:05,805
Speaker 3: maybe if we'd seen like a scene of you know,

1038
01:00:05,885 --> 01:00:07,885
Speaker 3: his father tinkering with the cart first, that would have

1039
01:00:07,885 --> 01:00:08,845
Speaker 3: been a little more believable.

1040
01:00:09,405 --> 01:00:12,405
Speaker 2: There actually is a later apparently a later revival that's

1041
01:00:12,645 --> 01:00:15,085
Speaker 2: like a post apocalyptic Little Wolf and Cup. I've never

1042
01:00:15,525 --> 01:00:20,285
Speaker 2: never read that one. Well, we should probably wind this

1043
01:00:20,365 --> 01:00:22,045
Speaker 2: down what we've talked about it plenty more next week,

1044
01:00:22,085 --> 01:00:24,085
Speaker 2: but before we go, I kind of want to hear

1045
01:00:24,125 --> 01:00:31,645
Speaker 2: everyone's favorite fight scene or fight moment and for me, like, well, okay,

1046
01:00:31,885 --> 01:00:34,245
Speaker 2: I guess I can only claim one. But I'm really

1047
01:00:34,285 --> 01:00:37,565
Speaker 2: a big fan of that shot of the head being

1048
01:00:37,605 --> 01:00:40,805
Speaker 2: split open from behind, Like you just see this, like

1049
01:00:40,885 --> 01:00:43,605
Speaker 2: this unfolded head. There's a brief pause and then the

1050
01:00:43,645 --> 01:00:46,365
Speaker 2: blood starts spurting out, So I had to go with

1051
01:00:46,485 --> 01:00:48,285
Speaker 2: that one. What about what about everyone else?

1052
01:00:48,725 --> 01:00:51,685
Speaker 3: I mean, when it comes to heads being split open,

1053
01:00:51,965 --> 01:00:54,885
Speaker 3: I actually thought the one where the guy gets a

1054
01:00:55,085 --> 01:00:57,965
Speaker 3: sword in the in the face that just digs down

1055
01:00:58,005 --> 01:01:01,125
Speaker 3: into his skull and then like proceeds to like give

1056
01:01:01,165 --> 01:01:03,445
Speaker 3: a you know you're never going to win there too

1057
01:01:03,525 --> 01:01:06,045
Speaker 3: many of us. Monologue while slowly sinking to the ground

1058
01:01:06,685 --> 01:01:08,565
Speaker 3: was actually more fun for me than the head split,

1059
01:01:08,685 --> 01:01:11,245
Speaker 3: which was also pretty good. But I've already called out.

1060
01:01:12,165 --> 01:01:17,085
Speaker 3: The fight scene that most impressed me was poor poor Jani.

1061
01:01:17,405 --> 01:01:20,885
Speaker 3: Like all he did was be the greatest of his

1062
01:01:21,765 --> 01:01:24,365
Speaker 3: lord's warriors, and what does he get for it? He

1063
01:01:24,485 --> 01:01:27,485
Speaker 3: gets all of his body parts cut off one by

1064
01:01:27,605 --> 01:01:32,325
Speaker 3: one by a horde of knife wielding women to sage

1065
01:01:32,365 --> 01:01:38,005
Speaker 3: their leader's pride. Again just just absolutely like body horror

1066
01:01:38,205 --> 01:01:39,525
Speaker 3: level gross.

1067
01:01:39,885 --> 01:01:42,365
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think we've mentioned a lot of my favorite ones.

1068
01:01:42,405 --> 01:01:44,885
Speaker 7: I mean again, they've they've taken the best parts kind

1069
01:01:44,925 --> 01:01:46,765
Speaker 7: of from two different movies, so there's a lot of

1070
01:01:46,965 --> 01:01:50,565
Speaker 7: it's eighty minutes and it's I don't know, fifty five

1071
01:01:50,725 --> 01:01:53,725
Speaker 7: minutes of action or something. It's it's just so there's

1072
01:01:53,805 --> 01:01:55,685
Speaker 7: just so many to choose from. But I guess the

1073
01:01:55,765 --> 01:01:57,565
Speaker 7: one that I would cite that we haven't I don't

1074
01:01:57,565 --> 01:01:59,565
Speaker 7: think we've mentioned it at all that I really loved.

1075
01:01:59,965 --> 01:02:05,165
Speaker 7: Another very comic bookie moment is he's arrived in a

1076
01:02:05,245 --> 01:02:09,085
Speaker 7: new place. There there he's kind of auditioning for a job.

1077
01:02:09,205 --> 01:02:10,765
Speaker 7: They want him to do something, and they want to

1078
01:02:10,885 --> 01:02:14,645
Speaker 7: prove him, to prove his bona fides. And he's sitting

1079
01:02:14,685 --> 01:02:18,525
Speaker 7: there and he throws his sword through a wall and

1080
01:02:18,685 --> 01:02:22,365
Speaker 7: it lodges itself in another. And then when they look over,

1081
01:02:22,605 --> 01:02:25,925
Speaker 7: like the hole in the wall starts dripping blood, and

1082
01:02:26,045 --> 01:02:30,405
Speaker 7: then the sword kind of slowly slides down the wall

1083
01:02:30,885 --> 01:02:34,445
Speaker 7: as more blood is coming out, as if the wall,

1084
01:02:34,645 --> 01:02:36,685
Speaker 7: as if the wall itself is bleeding. And then eventually,

1085
01:02:36,805 --> 01:02:38,965
Speaker 7: like the whole wall topples over and we see the

1086
01:02:39,045 --> 01:02:42,205
Speaker 7: ninja who is on the other side. But just a

1087
01:02:42,405 --> 01:02:49,325
Speaker 7: wonderfully kind of beautifully disgusting, bloody, horrible, wonderful image that

1088
01:02:49,525 --> 01:02:51,765
Speaker 7: I you know, I would wager to bet it is

1089
01:02:51,845 --> 01:02:54,405
Speaker 7: something taken from a comic, because it feels like something

1090
01:02:54,765 --> 01:02:57,565
Speaker 7: that would be in a comic book. It's just that

1091
01:02:57,845 --> 01:02:59,885
Speaker 7: that definitely delighted me.

1092
01:03:01,165 --> 01:03:04,885
Speaker 3: I really wondered about the dialogue for that, because what

1093
01:03:05,045 --> 01:03:08,565
Speaker 3: Lone Wolf says is the Shogun could have sent him,

1094
01:03:09,765 --> 01:03:13,045
Speaker 3: which is a kind of an indifference to you know,

1095
01:03:13,325 --> 01:03:15,925
Speaker 3: or or he was a nosy neighbor, or he was

1096
01:03:16,125 --> 01:03:18,805
Speaker 3: he was very tired and was like leaning against that

1097
01:03:18,885 --> 01:03:21,405
Speaker 3: wall from the outside. Whatever, one way or the other.

1098
01:03:21,485 --> 01:03:23,045
Speaker 3: I don't care you wanted me to prove I can

1099
01:03:23,125 --> 01:03:25,965
Speaker 3: kill people. Look, I can kill people. It's just a

1100
01:03:27,005 --> 01:03:30,685
Speaker 3: kind of delightful indifference to who that guy was in

1101
01:03:30,805 --> 01:03:34,645
Speaker 3: what he was doing before a sword came through the

1102
01:03:34,765 --> 01:03:37,765
Speaker 3: wall of the paper style and stabbed him.

1103
01:03:38,525 --> 01:03:40,965
Speaker 2: Well, on that note, why don't we wind down this

1104
01:03:41,045 --> 01:03:44,485
Speaker 2: discussion of Lone Wolf and Cub or NOTO Well, certainly

1105
01:03:44,525 --> 01:03:47,245
Speaker 2: Lone Wolf and Cub, but also Showgun Assassin particularly. We'll

1106
01:03:47,245 --> 01:03:49,965
Speaker 2: be talking about more plenty in the next episode, and

1107
01:03:50,085 --> 01:04:04,085
Speaker 2: we'll be back after a short break with feedback. Now

1108
01:04:04,165 --> 01:04:06,165
Speaker 2: it's time for feedback, But first let's talk about what's

1109
01:04:06,205 --> 01:04:08,405
Speaker 2: going on on the other shows that comprise our happy

1110
01:04:08,485 --> 01:04:11,965
Speaker 2: film spotting family. Over at Film Spotting the Proper, the

1111
01:04:12,085 --> 01:04:15,245
Speaker 2: Original the Og. Film Spotting host Adam Kipinar and Josh

1112
01:04:15,365 --> 01:04:18,125
Speaker 2: Larson recently visited the Tree of Life on the casion

1113
01:04:18,165 --> 01:04:20,685
Speaker 2: of its fifteenth anniversary. And that's easy for me to

1114
01:04:20,725 --> 01:04:22,405
Speaker 2: remember because it's one of the first movies I saw

1115
01:04:22,445 --> 01:04:25,005
Speaker 2: after the birth of my daughter, who just had a birthday.

1116
01:04:25,005 --> 01:04:29,125
Speaker 2: Happy Birthday, Hannah. And over a film's body SVU that's

1117
01:04:29,165 --> 01:04:32,125
Speaker 2: short for Streaming Video Unit. Why don't we just ask

1118
01:04:32,205 --> 01:04:34,205
Speaker 2: one of the hosts, what's up, Matt, what's going on

1119
01:04:34,325 --> 01:04:34,645
Speaker 2: over there?

1120
01:04:35,125 --> 01:04:40,005
Speaker 7: So our next episode is going to be about the

1121
01:04:40,725 --> 01:04:47,285
Speaker 7: Sasha Baron Cohen Netflix comedy Ladies. First, all right, hilarious

1122
01:04:47,565 --> 01:04:50,325
Speaker 7: romp where he wakes up in a world get this

1123
01:04:51,205 --> 01:04:56,645
Speaker 7: where women are in charge? Can you believe it?

1124
01:04:57,405 --> 01:04:57,445
Speaker 5: No?

1125
01:04:58,005 --> 01:05:00,285
Speaker 3: No, I can't either, because I know what the world

1126
01:05:00,325 --> 01:05:02,605
Speaker 3: would be like if women were in charge. Men would

1127
01:05:02,765 --> 01:05:07,125
Speaker 3: be getting body parts cut off bloodlessly, just up one side.

1128
01:05:07,165 --> 01:05:08,085
Speaker 3: And nearly that.

1129
01:05:08,445 --> 01:05:10,325
Speaker 7: Does happen in the movie. And I have to say,

1130
01:05:10,365 --> 01:05:12,805
Speaker 7: it's it's it's I didn't realize it was an homage

1131
01:05:12,845 --> 01:05:15,565
Speaker 7: at the time, but now in hindsight, it makes a

1132
01:05:15,605 --> 01:05:18,525
Speaker 7: lot of sense. It's all right, it's okay not to

1133
01:05:18,605 --> 01:05:23,405
Speaker 7: spoil our discussion on SVU, but we've reviewed worse on SVU.

1134
01:05:23,645 --> 01:05:26,005
Speaker 7: Let me say we've we've covered some rough movies so far.

1135
01:05:26,045 --> 01:05:28,005
Speaker 2: If you're not listening, what's the worst thing you reviewed

1136
01:05:28,045 --> 01:05:29,725
Speaker 2: on svo Oh boy?

1137
01:05:29,925 --> 01:05:32,045
Speaker 7: I mean they've we've had some rough ones so far.

1138
01:05:32,285 --> 01:05:36,245
Speaker 7: The first episode was Outcome, the Jonah Hill film with

1139
01:05:36,525 --> 01:05:39,525
Speaker 7: Keanu Reeves as as a movie.

1140
01:05:39,365 --> 01:05:42,325
Speaker 2: Star to me very vigorously by by Apple TV.

1141
01:05:43,045 --> 01:05:46,205
Speaker 7: Yeah, well that that'll make sense because it's their movie

1142
01:05:46,245 --> 01:05:49,765
Speaker 7: and they desperately need people to watch it. Check it out,

1143
01:05:49,845 --> 01:05:52,245
Speaker 7: see what you think. Maybe you'll maybe you'll enjoy it.

1144
01:05:52,325 --> 01:05:54,645
Speaker 2: I mean, so if I watched that, if I watched Servant,

1145
01:05:54,805 --> 01:05:56,725
Speaker 2: well they still stop telling me to watch.

1146
01:05:58,125 --> 01:06:00,285
Speaker 7: Just leave me alone, jok, I'll watch it.

1147
01:06:00,445 --> 01:06:05,605
Speaker 3: Please stop any curiosity. If I remember correctly that if

1148
01:06:06,725 --> 01:06:10,045
Speaker 3: What a Wacky World where women rule the world? Movie

1149
01:06:10,205 --> 01:06:12,325
Speaker 3: was based on a French movie that I've never heard of.

1150
01:06:12,845 --> 01:06:15,245
Speaker 7: Did you watch that too? We did not know, so

1151
01:06:15,325 --> 01:06:17,245
Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't know how faithful it is.

1152
01:06:17,405 --> 01:06:19,365
Speaker 7: Maybe I got to do more homework and watch that,

1153
01:06:19,565 --> 01:06:22,645
Speaker 7: but yeah, I think that was an an earlier Netflix film.

1154
01:06:23,005 --> 01:06:25,445
Speaker 2: Also, we should to remind everyone that film spotting Fest two,

1155
01:06:25,605 --> 01:06:27,605
Speaker 2: a weekend of films curated by Adam and Josh, is

1156
01:06:27,645 --> 01:06:30,485
Speaker 2: hitting Chicago in June twenty seventh and June twenty eighth,

1157
01:06:30,525 --> 01:06:32,325
Speaker 2: with a lineup of films that explore time and the

1158
01:06:32,405 --> 01:06:35,285
Speaker 2: way the past presses into the present. Matt, are you

1159
01:06:35,365 --> 01:06:35,885
Speaker 2: coming out for that?

1160
01:06:36,405 --> 01:06:39,205
Speaker 7: Not this year, but I got to come last year

1161
01:06:39,285 --> 01:06:41,525
Speaker 7: and it was a wonderful weekend. I had such a

1162
01:06:41,565 --> 01:06:43,885
Speaker 7: good time. I did one of the Q and a's,

1163
01:06:43,925 --> 01:06:47,245
Speaker 7: but I mostly just got to like, see great movies,

1164
01:06:47,325 --> 01:06:50,005
Speaker 7: listen to wonderful Q and as if I was in

1165
01:06:50,125 --> 01:06:52,685
Speaker 7: the area, I would definitely just be there of my

1166
01:06:52,845 --> 01:06:55,365
Speaker 7: own I would buy myself a ticket and just be

1167
01:06:55,445 --> 01:06:56,485
Speaker 7: there because it was so great.

1168
01:06:57,005 --> 01:06:59,005
Speaker 2: I will be in the area, so I should I

1169
01:06:59,045 --> 01:07:01,645
Speaker 2: should be there. So now it's time for feedback, where

1170
01:07:01,645 --> 01:07:03,285
Speaker 2: we read or listen to some of the responses we've

1171
01:07:03,285 --> 01:07:06,045
Speaker 2: gotten about recent episodes. This week, we've got a letter

1172
01:07:06,085 --> 01:07:10,005
Speaker 2: about a very recent episode and one about an older one, Tasha,

1173
01:07:10,685 --> 01:07:12,245
Speaker 2: do you want to talk sheep Detectives some more?

1174
01:07:12,525 --> 01:07:16,805
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Aaron from Houston writes, Hey, NPS crew, what an

1175
01:07:16,845 --> 01:07:19,925
Speaker 3: experience seeing the sheep Detectives. I took my thirteen year

1176
01:07:19,925 --> 01:07:21,805
Speaker 3: old son, who was a love of cute things like

1177
01:07:21,885 --> 01:07:25,205
Speaker 3: farm animals. Very unlike many thirteen year olds. We had

1178
01:07:25,245 --> 01:07:28,045
Speaker 3: this one on our radar after seeing the trailer. Seeing

1179
01:07:28,085 --> 01:07:30,405
Speaker 3: the movie on opening weekend was different because it was

1180
01:07:30,445 --> 01:07:33,205
Speaker 3: difficult to find a showing that wasn't sold out. In

1181
01:07:33,285 --> 01:07:35,205
Speaker 3: our screening, there were maybe a couple of kids in

1182
01:07:35,245 --> 01:07:37,805
Speaker 3: a packed theater. It was fun seeing this in the

1183
01:07:37,925 --> 01:07:40,685
Speaker 3: theater because everyone was so into the movie. My son

1184
01:07:40,725 --> 01:07:42,565
Speaker 3: asked if I could tell if the sheep were CGI

1185
01:07:42,725 --> 01:07:45,165
Speaker 3: or animatronic, and I really didn't know because I forgot

1186
01:07:45,245 --> 01:07:47,965
Speaker 3: to look for it. This movie delighted us both. If

1187
01:07:48,045 --> 01:07:50,045
Speaker 3: the movie made us forget to look for technique, then

1188
01:07:50,045 --> 01:07:53,485
Speaker 3: I consider it successful. This got me thinking about different

1189
01:07:53,525 --> 01:07:55,845
Speaker 3: themes that tend to appear from year to year. For

1190
01:07:56,005 --> 01:07:58,565
Speaker 3: last year, I agree that the strongest movies were Sinners

1191
01:07:58,605 --> 01:08:01,165
Speaker 3: and One Battle after Another. Along with these two, the

1192
01:08:01,245 --> 01:08:03,405
Speaker 3: movies of last year had a tendency to address some

1193
01:08:03,445 --> 01:08:05,605
Speaker 3: of the conflicts going on in the world, big and small.

1194
01:08:06,285 --> 01:08:09,125
Speaker 3: This year, following Project Hail Mary and the Sheep Detectives,

1195
01:08:09,405 --> 01:08:12,125
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that we're seeing more movies that portray characters

1196
01:08:12,165 --> 01:08:15,685
Speaker 3: showing kindness and connection to one another. Anyway, it's just

1197
01:08:15,725 --> 01:08:16,045
Speaker 3: a hope.

1198
01:08:16,325 --> 01:08:19,044
Speaker 2: I got a movie that does that. It's called Showgun Assassin.

1199
01:08:21,325 --> 01:08:24,285
Speaker 3: To care to showing kindness and connection to each other,

1200
01:08:24,765 --> 01:08:27,644
Speaker 3: albeit not so much kindness that one isn't perfectly willing

1201
01:08:27,684 --> 01:08:30,485
Speaker 3: to watch the other drop down a well to their death. Uh,

1202
01:08:30,805 --> 01:08:32,525
Speaker 3: you know, if it if it means killing a few

1203
01:08:32,564 --> 01:08:33,085
Speaker 3: more ninjas.

1204
01:08:33,245 --> 01:08:35,924
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's lovely said. And to the first point though,

1205
01:08:36,724 --> 01:08:39,285
Speaker 2: didn't I stopped thinking about how they were making the

1206
01:08:39,365 --> 01:08:42,205
Speaker 2: animals do things that animals don't normally do pretty pretty

1207
01:08:42,245 --> 01:08:45,325
Speaker 2: early on. Uh, it's a it is cgi and it's

1208
01:08:45,325 --> 01:08:50,005
Speaker 2: a very very impressive effect and very expressive animals. I mean,

1209
01:08:50,445 --> 01:08:52,125
Speaker 2: do you find yourself thinking, you know, kind of wondering

1210
01:08:52,285 --> 01:08:55,765
Speaker 2: how the how the magic trick happened with that movie? Oh?

1211
01:08:55,885 --> 01:08:57,845
Speaker 3: Sorry, I thought you're asking Matt. Matt, have you seen

1212
01:08:57,925 --> 01:08:58,604
Speaker 3: Cheap Detectives?

1213
01:08:58,685 --> 01:08:58,725
Speaker 5: No?

1214
01:08:58,885 --> 01:09:01,564
Speaker 7: I actually yeah, I asked. For some reason, they didn't

1215
01:09:01,565 --> 01:09:03,005
Speaker 7: want me to see it. They like wouldn't let me

1216
01:09:03,045 --> 01:09:05,525
Speaker 7: see it until basically the last minute, at which point

1217
01:09:05,725 --> 01:09:07,565
Speaker 7: I could not get to the screening. So I have

1218
01:09:07,685 --> 01:09:09,845
Speaker 7: not seen it, but I've heard it is delightful.

1219
01:09:10,685 --> 01:09:14,765
Speaker 3: Yeah, strong recommend I. I was actually so taken by

1220
01:09:14,845 --> 01:09:20,325
Speaker 3: this movie that I literally just I think today the

1221
01:09:20,525 --> 01:09:25,604
Speaker 3: Digital Ibray gave me Leoni Swan's book Three Bags Full,

1222
01:09:25,645 --> 01:09:28,685
Speaker 3: which was the basis for this. I'm currently reading it,

1223
01:09:28,805 --> 01:09:32,405
Speaker 3: and the book is also a delight. It is got

1224
01:09:32,565 --> 01:09:35,365
Speaker 3: just a very acerbic humor to it, although it's it's

1225
01:09:35,605 --> 01:09:38,844
Speaker 3: pretty clear from the outset that the story is radically

1226
01:09:38,925 --> 01:09:42,684
Speaker 3: different when on I think page one, the sheep note

1227
01:09:42,805 --> 01:09:45,165
Speaker 3: notice that their shepherd is dead and say, well, he

1228
01:09:45,245 --> 01:09:52,365
Speaker 3: wasn't a very good shepherd. Yeah, it's it seems to

1229
01:09:52,405 --> 01:09:56,165
Speaker 3: be a very different story with very different characters. But

1230
01:09:56,365 --> 01:09:59,045
Speaker 3: I kind of see where the tone and the humor

1231
01:09:59,285 --> 01:10:03,045
Speaker 3: was derived from. I'm enjoying this lot. I will also

1232
01:10:03,685 --> 01:10:07,005
Speaker 3: note that this book has a sequel, which I am

1233
01:10:07,205 --> 01:10:11,165
Speaker 3: hoping to read soon called Big Bad Wool with a

1234
01:10:11,245 --> 01:10:13,405
Speaker 3: picture of a wolf on the front of it. So

1235
01:10:13,725 --> 01:10:17,645
Speaker 3: but anyway, I'm I am glad that's one of our

1236
01:10:17,885 --> 01:10:20,805
Speaker 3: listeners was able to take their son and that There's

1237
01:10:21,325 --> 01:10:24,525
Speaker 3: was able to enjoy it. Aaron, I hope that you.

1238
01:10:26,085 --> 01:10:28,165
Speaker 3: I hope that you get more experiences out of this

1239
01:10:28,245 --> 01:10:30,885
Speaker 3: podcast that you can that you could share with your kid.

1240
01:10:32,005 --> 01:10:35,085
Speaker 3: Maybe not showing Assassin not although I worked.

1241
01:10:34,925 --> 01:10:38,604
Speaker 2: For Uma Thurman and kill Bill, so who can say. Well.

1242
01:10:38,645 --> 01:10:41,045
Speaker 2: We also received a recommendation from a listener named Joshua,

1243
01:10:41,205 --> 01:10:43,725
Speaker 2: tied to a six year old episode. We love it

1244
01:10:43,765 --> 01:10:46,245
Speaker 2: when people explore the archives. Although you know some of

1245
01:10:46,285 --> 01:10:49,325
Speaker 2: the most of the episodes are good, right Tasha, most

1246
01:10:49,725 --> 01:10:50,125
Speaker 2: I mean.

1247
01:10:50,365 --> 01:10:52,885
Speaker 3: I would say all of them are good, some of

1248
01:10:52,965 --> 01:10:55,564
Speaker 3: them are great, some of them are extra super great.

1249
01:10:55,845 --> 01:10:58,965
Speaker 3: You know, there's a little range from from good to terrific.

1250
01:11:02,125 --> 01:11:03,604
Speaker 2: It was the short words. I was going to read

1251
01:11:03,605 --> 01:11:06,605
Speaker 2: it real quickly. I'll read it the normal speed. I

1252
01:11:06,765 --> 01:11:08,685
Speaker 2: just listened to your twenty twenty episode about Lord of

1253
01:11:08,685 --> 01:11:10,845
Speaker 2: the Flies. Just watched it and read it so thanks,

1254
01:11:11,405 --> 01:11:13,205
Speaker 2: which into the listener mail about me is cut off

1255
01:11:13,325 --> 01:11:15,485
Speaker 2: that talks about the role of the Native American guide

1256
01:11:15,525 --> 01:11:18,845
Speaker 2: and the noble savage trope is mentioned. Your conversation made

1257
01:11:18,845 --> 01:11:20,645
Speaker 2: me think of a very good Australian movie called The

1258
01:11:20,725 --> 01:11:23,405
Speaker 2: Track from two thousand and two, which is also about

1259
01:11:23,405 --> 01:11:25,965
Speaker 2: an Aboriginal tracker who is forced in changed to guide

1260
01:11:25,965 --> 01:11:28,725
Speaker 2: a white party in search of an Aboriginal fugitive. There's

1261
01:11:28,725 --> 01:11:31,165
Speaker 2: a subtle exchange of power though, as it becomes unclear

1262
01:11:31,245 --> 01:11:33,765
Speaker 2: who has the ability to survive without the other. It's

1263
01:11:33,805 --> 01:11:35,645
Speaker 2: really good. I don't think people have seen it, but

1264
01:11:35,685 --> 01:11:38,525
Speaker 2: apparently it's on Amazon and Canopy and it's worthwhile. A

1265
01:11:38,565 --> 01:11:40,725
Speaker 2: good pairing with mixed cutoff as well, if not a

1266
01:11:40,805 --> 01:11:43,405
Speaker 2: national inspiration for it, I don't know this movie sounds

1267
01:11:43,445 --> 01:11:44,604
Speaker 2: it does sound really interesting.

1268
01:11:45,205 --> 01:11:47,564
Speaker 3: I had a moment of thinking, oh, yeah, that dynamic

1269
01:11:47,965 --> 01:11:50,564
Speaker 3: is really familiar, right, Maybe I saw this movie back

1270
01:11:50,645 --> 01:11:52,965
Speaker 3: in two thousand and two when it came out, and

1271
01:11:53,125 --> 01:11:56,005
Speaker 3: I realized, no, I think I'm actually thinking of mixed cutoff.

1272
01:11:56,845 --> 01:12:00,285
Speaker 3: So that is an indication of how well they line up.

1273
01:12:00,325 --> 01:12:04,564
Speaker 3: But it does sound really interesting. I am just endlessly

1274
01:12:04,845 --> 01:12:10,645
Speaker 3: fascinated with kind of more modern movies that acknowledge the

1275
01:12:11,845 --> 01:12:18,005
Speaker 3: power disparity between natives anywhere and in like more technologically

1276
01:12:18,245 --> 01:12:24,685
Speaker 3: advanced invaders and compare like what both of them bring

1277
01:12:24,765 --> 01:12:27,125
Speaker 3: to a survival situation. I just think that's a really

1278
01:12:27,245 --> 01:12:27,884
Speaker 3: neat dynamic.

1279
01:12:28,525 --> 01:12:31,205
Speaker 2: I'll keep that one in mind. Well, that's it for

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01:12:31,285 --> 01:12:33,485
Speaker 2: this episode of the Next Picture Show. In our next episode,

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01:12:33,525 --> 01:12:36,005
Speaker 2: we'll talk about the Mandalorid and Grogu, which contains what

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01:12:36,205 --> 01:12:39,005
Speaker 2: may be the only creature more adorable than expressive baby

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01:12:39,045 --> 01:12:42,685
Speaker 2: and a deadly baby cart an expressive, weird alien thing

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01:12:42,845 --> 01:12:46,205
Speaker 2: with force powers and giant years. Look for that episode

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01:12:46,285 --> 01:12:48,965
Speaker 2: next Tuesday on your podcast or choice for ad free

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01:12:49,045 --> 01:12:51,605
Speaker 2: versions of this podcast and extra content. Find us on

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01:12:51,685 --> 01:12:54,725
Speaker 2: Patreon at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. You

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01:12:54,765 --> 01:12:56,565
Speaker 2: can find us at Next Picture Show dot net and

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01:12:56,645 --> 01:12:58,885
Speaker 2: on Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show. If you

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Speaker 2: want to keep track of when new episodes drop until

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01:13:01,365 --> 01:13:03,885
Speaker 2: next week. Remember, if you choose the microphone, you will

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01:13:04,005 --> 01:13:07,205
Speaker 2: join me as a podcaster. If you choose the fun

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01:13:07,285 --> 01:13:09,925
Speaker 2: looking toy that a child would naturally gravitate toward, you

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01:13:09,965 --> 01:13:11,165
Speaker 2: will join your mother and death.

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01:13:23,365 --> 01:13:24,285
Speaker 3: When it was a good movie.

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Speaker 2: You've seen here before once