1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: one two. Did a yoga star intentionally murder her gorgeous 3 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: identical twin sister? We are going live in a trial 4 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: that has just kicked off. Did a woman murder her 5 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: twin sister by driving her off a cliff? Intentionally killing 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: her by plowing their suv over a two hundred foot 7 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: cliff in Hawaii? Well, that is what a judge will determine. 8 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: Alexandria Duval the case has just started on trial for 9 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: the murder of her sister. The two big hits in 10 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: the yoga scene with their own private studio. They had 11 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: so many customers they had to add on classes. How 12 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: did everything go so wrong? I'm Nancy Grace, This is 13 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, Joining me 14 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: right now. Dr Bethany Marshall, Los Angeles psycho analyst, Cheryl McCollum, 15 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Boy do we 16 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: need her today? Also with me Crime Stories investigative reporters 17 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Scott Kimbler. Scott, first of all, before I get to 18 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: one sister plunging the other sister off a two ft 19 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: cliff in the middle of a hair fight going down. 20 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: Unlet's just say she wasn't afraid of a cocktail. Let's 21 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: just start with that. But before we get to one 22 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: sister dying at the foot of the cliff, can we 23 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: talk about their success together, their success story. Yes, Nancy, 24 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: these two have been running a yoga studio for quite 25 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: some time, and before they only moved in Hawaii in 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: two thousands of team. Before that, they ran a successful 27 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: yoga studios plural in Florida, So the sisters were known 28 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: to be somewhat volatile. They were also very, very popular 29 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: yoga instructors in Florida and in Hawaii. You know, I've 30 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: been taking a look at their yoga studio, Cheryl McCollum 31 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: joining me direct with the Cold Case Institute. And when 32 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: you are trying to determine and murderer, you don't look 33 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: just at forensics. Although I like forensics the best, Cheryl, 34 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: because they really it's more difficult to dispute forensics. Although 35 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: I guess you can get an expert, pay an expert 36 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: to do anything or say anything, But Cheryl, their history together, 37 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: these twins had a huge, huge following at their Florida 38 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: yoga studio. I agree with you Nancy, you gotta go 39 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: back in time on this one. These twins went from 40 00:02:54,919 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: New York to Utah to Florida to Hawaii. You are 41 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: successful and everything is good. Why are you moving like that? 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: So in my world, if I've got two people, they 43 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: have moved from Florida to Hawaii and changed their names 44 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: because they're running from something they're hiding. That's an interesting 45 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: point because to me, they seem to have it all 46 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: when they were in Florida, because um, the yoga studio 47 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: was so incredibly popular. They're very striking, number one, very attractive, 48 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: long blonde hair. Both of them parted in the middle, 49 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: big blue eyes, making an incredible first impression on people, 50 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: and so many people credit these two sisters that Duvall 51 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: twins for improving their lives through yoga. Twin Power was 52 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: the name of their studio in Florida, and it was 53 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: in a very posh area. They were in Palm Beach, 54 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: but then they left for another or retreat for the 55 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: rich and famous Park City, and they were even trying 56 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: to launch a reality show about yoga. Now that's interesting 57 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: because that show. When the reality show fell through Cheryl McCollum, 58 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: they started falling into debt, and you know money, the 59 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: love of money is the root of all evil. So 60 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: let me ask you, how do you think that they 61 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: descended from being at the top of their game at 62 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: Twin Power Yoga, where they they would charge sometimes two 63 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: thousand to thirty five hundred dollars for a yoga certification class. 64 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: How did they get so far in debt, Nancy, When 65 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: you're in a posh area like that, everything has got 66 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: to be taught drawer or people are not coming, So 67 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: you've got to be in the right area, in the 68 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: right building, with the best equipment. So probably they went 69 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: into debt to try to get the students in the 70 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: first place, and then at that point they're playing catch up. 71 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: So we know there's been some failed businesses and bankrupt well, 72 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: I know they were throwing around a lot of money. 73 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: They would travel to India, India three to four times 74 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: for yoga instruction. On weekends. They would hire percussionists who 75 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: would come in and perform during the yoga classes. I 76 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: mean they're throwing around money left and right to make 77 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: Twin Power Yoga work. But also they changed names. Cheryl McCollum, 78 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I mean, when you change names, that's a big tip 79 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: off to me. Oh, it's a huge flag in our world, Nanthew, 80 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: there's no doubt. Again, not only did they change their names, 81 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: they went to a remote island to start over. Nobody's 82 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: gonna know them in Hawaii. Just joining me right now, 83 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: l a psycho analyst, Dot Bethany Marshall. Dr Bethany Marshall. 84 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: When you just pick up and move to the furthest 85 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: island off the mainland to the furthest island possible in Hawaii, 86 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: or pick up and moved to um Alaska or Costa 87 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: Rica for no apparent reason, leaving what little family you 88 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: have behind. I mean, their dad is a doctor, for 89 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: Pete's sake, and they've got family and relatives. Change your 90 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: name now one of them is dead. Dr Bethany Nancy. 91 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: I have an office right in the heart of Beverly Hills, 92 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: and there are a number of businesses around me, yoga studios, 93 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: clothing stores, little boutique shops. And you walk in and 94 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: the owners are not just you know, owners of a business, 95 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: but they're gurus. Like there's this clothing chop up the 96 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: street from me, where there's two women that own it, 97 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: and all of the rich Beverly Hills women that come 98 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: in look to these two women to make their lives better. 99 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: They talk about their marital stress. They get them to 100 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: dress them for red carpet events. And these girls that 101 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: started a clothing what problems. Okay, you're married to some 102 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: rich guy and you're dressing for the red carpet. What's 103 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: the problem. I don't know, marital infidelity. Your five thousand 104 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: or ten thousand dollar a month allowance is not stretching 105 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: as far as you wanted. Your dog has the flu, 106 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: I mean whatever. But these women that own these retail 107 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: stores become therapist, mentors, guides, coaches, gurus. And you're making 108 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: me have a flashback right now. It was during Dancing 109 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: with the Stars, and that was the first time I 110 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: had been away from the twins in my life for 111 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: that period of time at a stretch, because I had 112 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: them enrolled in this little Methodist school out there, Westwood, 113 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: It and um, they would go to school in the 114 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: morning and then I would be away from them the 115 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: whole day and wouldn't get back to them till late 116 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: in the evening. And I remember one weekend I was 117 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: just trying to be with them non stock because I 118 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: was miserable away from them, and we were walking along 119 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: the sidewalk there where you're talking about in Beverly Hills, 120 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: and John David went over and looked at a pair 121 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: of gold tennis shoes and I look. We went in 122 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: and looked. There were nine hundred dollars. I said, don't 123 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: look at those, just turn away, don't even look at them. 124 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: These people are crazy. That shop would be on my street. 125 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: I think, rubbed in, rubbed in. You know what. I 126 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: don't want to live on that street. You have it, 127 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: it's all for you. I will stick right here, you know, 128 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: and drive my beat up minivan and couldn't be happier. 129 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: But back to it's a warped reality, and which brings 130 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: me back to these twins. They were living in a 131 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: warp reality. That's right. It's a warped reality, not only 132 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: because of the wealth of the clientele, but I think 133 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: that in the yoga world, there's a very thin line 134 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: between exercise and kind of like a cult like religiosity, 135 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: where the person who's instructing the classes becomes I keep 136 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: using the word gurus, Bengali mentor coach teacher. They become 137 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: so prominent in the lives of their followers that they 138 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: become heavy or giddy, or or they think that they're 139 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: really more important than they really are, and I think 140 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: that can lead to all kinds of problems, you know, 141 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Like Cheryl, I want to follow up on this, this religiosity, 142 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: uh component to their yoga practice. Cheryl McCullum, director of 143 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, following up on what Dr 144 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall said. You know, they launched Twin Power Yoga 145 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: and a really ritzy area in West Palm Beach on 146 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: eleven eleven eleven, a date that the twins claimed was 147 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: a spiritual number that meant double creativity. Mm hmmm mmmm. Well, 148 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: here's what it seems like. The main nancy. They wanted 149 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: to be famous. They wanted to be well known, whether 150 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: it was gonna be yoga or reality show or whatever 151 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: it was going to be. They had the visions of 152 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: grander so to speak, and by any means the necessary. 153 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: If they had to go to India, if they had 154 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: to go to Hawaii, they had to go back to Utah, 155 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: it didn't matter what they had to do. The way 156 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: they were trying to, you know, get their own same notice. 157 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: So well, they also made it. They made a yoga 158 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: DVD called Twin Power Hour. And I am not ridiculing 159 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: them at all for ambition and drive, but I am 160 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: very suspicious about the way they did business because they 161 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: just up and left one day. A lot of people 162 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: that paid three thousand dollars almost four thousand dollars for 163 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: a membership were left high and dry. Nobody was ever 164 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: paid back. It just they were living the high life, 165 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: trying to make a reality show and make DVDs. It 166 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: was in this posh airy Yeah, yeah, I think it 167 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: was go ahead. It was a straight up coin and 168 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: we see it, whether Joka or anything else. So they 169 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: get you to buy into this membership and then they 170 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: simply move to a white So it's not like you 171 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: can really, you know, try to get your money back 172 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: or track them down. And a lot of people to say, 173 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, looks through it. They're gone, I'm done good 174 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: with it, and that's it. So you've got the two sisters, 175 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: and you know what I always say, Sheryl McCollum, when 176 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: you don't know a horse, look at the track record, 177 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: look at his track record. But in this case, this 178 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: is like a deja vu. The twin is killed when 179 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: she and her sister have a as. I call it 180 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: a hair fight. You know, a girl fights, swatting and 181 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: hitting at each other and pulling hair and screaming and 182 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: biting that whole thing. As they're driving the suv, but 183 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: flashback away from Hawaii to the Sawgrass Expressway back in Florida, 184 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: and suddenly, from the passenger seat, the one sister, Anne 185 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: starts kicking the steering wheel and windshield with her feet 186 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: as she and the other sister, Allison, from the backseat, 187 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: scream at the driver because the boyfriend, yes, the boyfriend, 188 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: was ignoring their demands to stop and get another glass 189 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: of wine. They had a fit. The guy, the boyfriend quote, 190 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: I almost went off the road. He bought the kicks 191 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: with his right arm, and he drove the twins uh 192 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: continued going forward. He's like, are you guys crazy? You're 193 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: gonna kill all of us. He finally got them to 194 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: their home. That was fifteen years ago. Yeryl McCollum over 195 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: another glass of wine as a car and suv is 196 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: speeding at about eight mph. Maybe there's clearly some anger issues. 197 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: There's clearly um an issue where they don't even care 198 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: about their own safety. They get so enraged in this 199 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: case to me, looks like almost a murder suicide that failed, 200 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: meaning the suicide fails, the murder was successible. Well in 201 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: this case not so sure as a murder suicide attempt. 202 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I do know that 203 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: you've got one dead sister and then and dead when 204 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: the suv driven by twin sister Alison goes two feet 205 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: off a cliff in Hawaii, and witnesses state they heard 206 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: the two sisters screaming at each other and saw the 207 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: passenger pulling the driver's hair before their Ford Explorer smashed 208 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: through a wrought wall and launched over the cliff. So 209 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: back to Sky Kimbler are crime Stories investigative reporter, The 210 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: trial is going down. These two have been described as 211 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: alpha females that only thought about their image and their success. 212 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: But they were like Jacqueline Hyde. Once they had a 213 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: couple of drinks, both of them, they turned into Mr Hyde. Scott, Yes, 214 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: he too have a history of being very volatile, and 215 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: yes that that the quick switching a route that they 216 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: would do, and the NCCO were very well known about 217 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: doing that to the ex boyfriend and who associates of 218 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: just being two very violent and volatile women. I don't 219 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: understand why they changed their name. Sheryl McComb. What was 220 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: that about Hattie again, Nancy, if you look up who 221 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: owns this studio as an ast Asia, Well that's not 222 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: the time artists from you know, Utah or Florida. So 223 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: they move on. So they changed their name too high. Well, 224 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: it's funny the names that they picked. Dr Bethany Marshall 225 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: l a psycho analyst, Joy winding us today and where 226 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: they head. They go from New York to one rich Enclay, 227 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: to Palm Beach, another Enclay for the wealthy, to Park 228 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: City where everybody has a second or third house to 229 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: go skiing, then to Hawaii and change their names to 230 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of exotic names to start over. Now one is dead. 231 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is that these charges were actually 232 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: once dropped. Dr Bethany. Wow. That that's so amazing to 233 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: me because it sounds like they had a criminal past 234 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: before they went over the cliff. And when I is 235 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: it one of the names Anastasia, I mean it's like 236 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: Russian royalty. I think instead of thinking Anastasia and Alexandria Alexandria, Okay, well, 237 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: I think instead of thinking of them as yoga instructors. 238 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: We should just think of them as con artists first 239 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: and foremost, and then what do the carnal a con 240 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: artists decide to do in order to take advantage of people. 241 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: They pick a profession where they will be admired and 242 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: looked up to and have power over people. And who's 243 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: going to have more power over people than some kind 244 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: of a leader, whether it's maybe a religious leader, a 245 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: leader in the exercise world. I mean, I'm always shocked 246 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: when I opened the newspaper and I read about yoga 247 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: instructors who are having sex with their followers, who are grifters, 248 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: who are you know, ripping people off. I think that 249 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: there's certain professions that grifters um are drawn to because 250 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: that's where they can actually get to know people in 251 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: an intimate way where they can take advantage of them. Well, 252 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: one is dead at the bottom of a cliff, and 253 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: the trial has kicked off, and we are bringing you 254 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: the very latest out of that Hawaii courtroom. As a 255 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a lessen what's happening in court 256 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: that you went off and left, that there was no breaking, 257 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: two that there was hard acceleration, and three that there 258 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: was a hard left turn, three categories of evidence will 259 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: be presented to establish each of these three facts. And 260 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: one is the fiscal evidence on the road that shows 261 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: no breaking, shows a hard acceleration a hard left turn. 262 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: Two is the eye witness who saw it accelerating and 263 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: taking a jerk to the left off and clip. And 264 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: three is the data retrieved from the SUV crash data 265 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: recorder UH that indicated that the brakes were not used 266 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: and quantifies the acceleration and the turn. Therefore, when the 267 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: evidence is presented the stable after the court fine the 268 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: that the defendant intentionally or knowingly UH drove off that 269 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: clip their bite causing that's been the persister, you know, 270 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: to keep track of ten year old twins and every 271 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: major trial that's happening in the country takes a lot 272 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: of energy. And I recently learned an awesome way to 273 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: increase my energy. 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Today's super Beats Thanks for the energy. 296 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Back to a Hawaii courtroom where one gorgeous twins sistor 297 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: on trial in the death the Horrible Death. As a 298 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: matter of fact, I've her twin now their time in 299 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: Florida is an indicator. From two thousand eight to two 300 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, then named Alison and Anne ran twin Power 301 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: yoga studios in Palm Beach, known for being highly visible 302 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: with charismatic personalities. As a matter of fact, Chryl McCullum, 303 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: they even drove matching porsches. Okay, did you hear me? 304 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: Matching pors is? Okay, you can't, can't really miss that 305 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: in a small down. Then they latched onto a guru, 306 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: as Bethany was describing, a spiritual advisor that they met 307 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: at a Cabbalah center, and that's when everything seemed to 308 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: go wrong. They were pushed, according to them, into renting 309 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: a much more expensive space for a new studio to 310 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: support a reality show, and when the reality show didn't happen, 311 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: they were plunged into death. It okay, they were even 312 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: known around the area as the Terrible Twins of Yoga. 313 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Then close to two thousand fifteen, they suddenly the yoga 314 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: uh devotees show up. It's shuttered, everybody's gone. The employees 315 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: didn't get their paid customers, who would already pay for memberships, 316 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: felt ripped off, ripped off, and angry, they had to 317 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: park city of Utah, changed their names to write a book. 318 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 1: Now they're Alexandria and Anastasia, and they go back and 319 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: open another yoga studio under different names. Both of them 320 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: heavily in debt while in Utah, disorderly and drunken conduct, 321 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: kicked out of a restaurant for drinking too much involved, 322 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: and yet another car crash where they fought with each 323 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: other and when the cops get there, they slide their 324 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: car into a ditch. Quote hair pull was also involved 325 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: to Dr Bethany Marshall and Cheryl McCollum joining me. This 326 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: is now the second of three times that I know 327 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: of did they get into a fight while driving. This 328 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: time they slide their car into a dish right in 329 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: front of the cops. Cheryl chump. Past behavior will be 330 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: a firm indicator on future behavior. These two almost have 331 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: a love hate relationship. And I believe the black box 332 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: in that car is gonna be all they really have 333 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: to look at to prove my theory of the murder suicide. 334 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: She was so angry she deliberately drove that car off 335 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: a cliff, even though she was not wearing a seat 336 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: belt either. There is no way if you throw yourself 337 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: off a cliff two hundred feet down a ravine not 338 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: wearing a seat belt, that you know for sure only 339 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: your passenger is gonna die. She didn't care about her 340 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: own safety. That's how mad she was. Unbridled and uncontrolled. Anger. 341 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall. I'm very familiar with the tank commandments, 342 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: but there's also the seven Deadly Sins, which I used 343 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: to love to quote the juries. One of them is anger. Well, 344 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: and what I keep thinking about is I listened to 345 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, I listened to you. Is what happens when 346 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: you have two twins with personality disorders who are disregulated. 347 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: They cannot control themselves. They're grandiose, as so many sociopaths are. 348 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: I don't know for a fact of faith or sociopaths, 349 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: but they seem to have that profile. Things are going 350 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: badly for them, their substance abusers, and they can't regulate 351 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: their feelings towards each other, and then you have a 352 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: build up. You know, you and I often talk about 353 00:23:53,320 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: homicides rarely, stranger homicides are less frequent, and acquaintance homicides, 354 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: and the reason for that is that it's in our 355 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: most intimate relationships that we have feelings that could lead 356 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: to homicide, like rage and be jealousy, betrayal, resentment. So 357 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: I think this was just sort of a toxic build 358 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: up between two people who could not regulate their emotions 359 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 1: in terms of murder suicide maybe, or maybe two women 360 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: who were fighting and pulling out each other's hair all 361 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: the time. But they just happened to be in a 362 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: car at this moment. They could have been blacked out drunk. 363 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: You know, you never know. This is the third time. 364 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: It's like third strawt. You're app They did it fifteen 365 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: years ago on Sawgrass Expressway, all right, and the then 366 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: boyfriend now married and got he got away from them 367 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: here you know, Yeah, I was driving and they nearly 368 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: ran him off the road. They and it happened again, 369 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: and the police show up to the scene. I guess 370 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: this was in Park City and just in time to 371 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: see them slide that ran the car into a ditch. 372 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: And they're still fighting and pulling hair and drunk. And 373 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: these two have the ability to make hundreds of thousands 374 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: of dollars, make DVDs right books have their own yoga studios. 375 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: The potential reality show and instead they're wasting their lives 376 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: getting drunk and having fights. But you know, that's a 377 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: dynamic in a lot of relationships. The first time I 378 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: knew anything about it was on Andy Mayberry and they 379 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: would always be called Andy and Barney to this home 380 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: on domestics where the husband and wife would just be 381 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: horrible and fight to each other, fight at each other. Well, 382 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: they got them in counseling, then they started taking it 383 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: out on everybody in the community. So in the end 384 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: they just told them to go back to their regular 385 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: selves and let them go back to fighting with each 386 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: other because they enjoyed it, because nobody else can stand 387 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: and be around them. So maybe this is their dynamic, 388 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: the the pattern over and over and over, getting drunk, 389 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: fighting physically with each other, these two gorgeous twins, having 390 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: a blowout, making up, and then doing it again, this 391 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: time again in a car and ones that ends up dead. Bethany, Well, 392 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, that is so insightful what you're talking about, 393 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: because I have many patients in my practice who actually 394 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 1: enjoy fighting because it's very stimulating. I mean, it's never boring, 395 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: and you always have something to think about. You have 396 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: somebody to hate, um, you have something to ruminate on, 397 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: and your your life has just stirred up and in 398 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: chaos all the time. And what I see with people 399 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: who are we call it like ritualistic fighting, is that 400 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: usually they have a lot of underlying feelings that are 401 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: not metabolized. They really don't know, They don't know themselves. 402 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: They can't regulate their emotions. So the blowouts, as you 403 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: call it, is a way to kind of blow off steam. 404 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: So what we would say is that there's a build 405 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: up of feelings outside of awareness. That and because the 406 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: feelings are outside of awareness, they cannot regulate those emotions. 407 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: So they pick a fight and have a blowout so 408 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: that they can they can take sort of the steam 409 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: off or or get the air out, um, and then 410 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: they go back to their their baseline functioning. And sometimes 411 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: that can be only for a few minutes or a 412 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: few hours, and then they have a build up of 413 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: anxiety emotion and then then they have to pick a 414 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: fight again. Or it could be as simple as these 415 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: two are just addicts and they hate each other, and 416 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: I think you know you have these I wouldn't say 417 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: something because I'm actually a twin myself, and there's no 418 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: one on this planet I feel more loyal to than 419 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: my own twin sister, and I sort of know she lives. 420 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm in southern California, she's in northern California. I'm sort 421 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: of connected to her. If she has a bad day, 422 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: I feel it. Sometimes we have the same dreams, revery 423 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: emotionally tethered to each other. I cannot imagine fighting with 424 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: her in that way. It just so inexplicable to me. 425 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: And so I think what's happening with these twins is 426 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: that you have these two gorgeous women who are like 427 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Svengali guru con artists. Everybody looks up to them. They're 428 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: grifters because they're beautiful and they have power over people. 429 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: They believe their own bs. They so they run up 430 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: credit cards, They they overextend themselves, and then they become 431 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: substance abusers because they can't regulate their emotions and they 432 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: starr Bethany sadly, having been on TV for so long, 433 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: I have to talk in sound bites and if it 434 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: goes over about twenty words, it's just, you know, I 435 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: don't know what happens after that. But I think that 436 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: you were saying about their talking about their pattern. And 437 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: she couldn't be more ight, Cheryl McCullum, because this is 438 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: the third time that we know they've got into a 439 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: horrible fight, and this time one of them died. But 440 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: one thing about this instance, Cheryl, is the sister drove 441 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: through a rock wall to stop you know, accidents on 442 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: the cliff there on on the Furthest Island in Hawaii. 443 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: And not only that, there's been these charges were first dropped. 444 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: A judge through them out and told the prosecutor, hey, 445 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: if you want charges, go to a grand jury. And 446 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: that's just what they did. Because witnesses say that the fight, 447 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: the argument started before the acceleration. It wasn't during driving 448 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: that the fight started. And then she plowed through a 449 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: rock wall with her seatbelt on and the passenger not on. 450 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: That's how this is. I I guess the theory of 451 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: this is not like I go by a gun and 452 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: then I sneak up on you as you're walking to 453 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: your car and the parking didn't shoot you, which is 454 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: premeditated intentional murder with malice forethought. This is more of 455 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: a um um black heart and as it is called 456 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: in the law, an abandoned and malignant heart. For instance, 457 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: if I'm at a street fair and I suddenly get 458 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: in my car and punch it, put the pedal to 459 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: the metal at ninety m p h to drive through 460 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: all the stalls, that is abandoned malignant heart. I have reckless, 461 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: abandoned towards life. So if you take somebody off a cliff, 462 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: that's you're driving the car, but still it's abandoned, malignant 463 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: heart towards the other person, reckless disregard for their life. 464 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: That's got to be the theory, no doubt. And they 465 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: stop more than once. They would pull over, and they 466 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: continue to physically fight. Witnesses saw it so at that 467 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: point and as Asia said, it got out of the car, 468 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: but she didn't. She continued to go. She would stop 469 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: again and physically fight, continue to go, and then she 470 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: accelerated and turned a hard left, never breaking through the 471 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: rock wall down the ravine. Back to Scott Kimbler, Uh, 472 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: that is when it's observed. The vehicle begins to accelerate again, 473 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: nearly crashing into a boy Scout van, and you could 474 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: hear one of them swearing at somebody else. There was anger, 475 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: a rage going on in that car and then they 476 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: accelerated again. Do I have the sequence of events correct? Scott, Yeah, 477 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: So it seemed to be a argument that would um, 478 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: as you say, accelerate not only in the car, but 479 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: in the intensity of the argument. Yes, it was. It was. 480 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: It was ongoing, caught a lot of people's attention. Um 481 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: when it was stationary, people have recollection of them. You know, 482 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: one thing, the other one needs a psychiatrist and then 483 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: speeds off again. And this is this is just ongoing 484 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: and escalating for some period of time. At this point, well, 485 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: right now, everybody a court room is transfixed as one 486 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: sister who survives the crash that killed her twin sister 487 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: is on trial from murder. You've heard some of the 488 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: prosecution opening statement. Listen to what the defense has to say. 489 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: This case is a tragic accident, not murder. Car first 490 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: impact and uh. Evidence from the vehicle will show that UH, 491 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: and from the airbag control module will show when the 492 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: car initially went through the dirt tournament went you on 493 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: the driver's side, but that did not activate the airbags. 494 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: That was what's going on from the defense side of 495 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: the courtroom. Scott Kimbler, Is it true that the one 496 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: sister on trial, Alexandria Duval, who has pled not guilty 497 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: to second degree murderer in the death of her twin, 498 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: Anastasia Duval. Is it true she waived a jury trial 499 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: and she's being tried directly in front of a judge. 500 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: It is Nancy, She actually did waive off a jury trial. 501 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: It seems a bit odd when you're facing such a 502 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: very serious church. But yes, she doesn't want a jury 503 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: to decide on this. She's more than willing to just 504 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: to do it with with just the judge. Interesting. Interesting 505 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. 506 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: You know, I never I think there was only one 507 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: time I agreed to go for an a bench trial 508 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: as it is called. I always wanted a jury trial 509 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: because you know, ever know what kind of wild hair 510 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: some judge is going to get, you know, and leave 511 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: it up to one. I did calmly agree to emence 512 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: trial with the oldest woman in Fulton County ever charged 513 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: with grand larceny. I went in front of Judge Alberson, 514 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: God rest his soul. This old lady would had a 515 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: boarding house, a big old house near George Baptist Hospital, 516 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: and she would take in female nurses, and that worked. 517 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: That worked for a couple of days. You know, nurses 518 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: have long shifts. They come home, all their furniture be gone, 519 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: and she'd be sitting on the front porch rocking. Well, 520 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: she did this over and over and over. Nobody could 521 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: ever prove she was the one that took the furniture 522 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: and sold it. Okay, finally, you know, I brought her 523 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: to trial. She got convicted at a bench trial. Well, 524 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: let me tell you. She threw herself, this almost eighty 525 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: year old lady grand larceny, threw herself on the ground screaming, 526 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: Oh sweet Jesus, her wig flew off. She was just 527 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm you should have seen the spectacle. And I said, 528 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: Ms Viella, get up off the ground. You are not 529 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: having a heart attack. I'm recommending probation. She just jumped 530 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: right up, and they took her out under her little 531 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: armpits and dragged her out of the courtroom. And she 532 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: even after a trial, making all the witnesses come in. 533 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: All I wanted to do was to pay the people back. 534 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: I didn't want the old thing to go to jail 535 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Well, there's a reason Cheryl people opt 536 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: for a bench trial, and both the state and the 537 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: defense have a right to a trial by jury. The 538 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: defense can't call all the shots, but they agreed. I 539 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: guess to a bench trial. What's the benefit. You don't 540 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: think she's going to pull it over on this, Judge 541 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: k Hill, do you? That's what she believes she can do. 542 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: She's a con artist. She seems that good like her dad, 543 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: and she's played him like a base settle for years. 544 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: She gets her way, she's gonna look beautiful and pitiful 545 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: at the same time. And oh, you can't get mad 546 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: at me because I threw my own celf down the 547 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: ravine too, and it's a real chain. He was the 548 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: problem with the car or whatever life she comes up with. 549 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: And you know, my sister grabbed this here and will 550 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: it'll be some life. But Nancy, she firmly believed that 551 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: she can con that man because she's done it for years, 552 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 1: and she sure Lord didn't want a female. Well, this 553 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: is what we know. The motive here would have been anger, 554 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: and anger in addition to being one of the seven 555 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: deadly sins is not a defense at trial. Are I 556 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: on the courtroom? And now we had across the country 557 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: to an almond farm and a frozen body. What could 558 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: be more beucolic, more beautiful than a gorgeous almond farm 559 00:36:52,960 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: in California, Peaceful, green, rolling hills, trees and trees and trees, 560 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: you know. Sheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute. 561 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: I remember investigating the Lacy Peterson murder and before her 562 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: body had surfaced, along with that of an unborn child, Connor. 563 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: I remember going to her neighborhood and just walking around, 564 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: walked all the way to the end of her street, 565 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: and somehow I came to I came to a dead 566 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: end and there was a big wooden fence and it 567 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: was crossed over with wooden boards. You were not supposed 568 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: to go on the other side, but of course I 569 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: went up to it and looked to see what was 570 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: so crossed over, thinking could Lacy have gone back here? 571 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful um orchard. It was right there, 572 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: starting in the middle of a neighborhood. Now, in this case, 573 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:58,240 Speaker 1: they weren't just growing almonds on the Arbuckle farm, because 574 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: right now loved one are in shock. Two young moms 575 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: found dead in the Arbuckle almond farm. Not only dead, 576 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: thirty nine year old Kimberly Taylor and twenty five year 577 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: old Jessica Mazac found on the Almond farm frozen frozen, 578 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: stuffed inside a stand alone freezer. What I mean, Cheryl, 579 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: that's not where you expect a dead body to pop up. No, 580 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: it's about what we expect one that, Nancy, in this situation, 581 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: you either have two women that came abong something that 582 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't have seen, or you've got the work of a 583 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: serial killer. So what well it was that needs to 584 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: do here, in my opinion, is keep virgin, keep looking 585 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,479 Speaker 1: in that field, keep looking in the orchard, keep looking 586 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: in the lakes. There may be other missing people there 587 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: on that farm. And also it does appear that maybe 588 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: some marijuana was being grown there. And did they come 589 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: upon that and where they silence? Yeah? I know, Sheryl 590 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: that the big craze is legalization of marijuana, but I 591 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: still say, nothing good is going to come of it. Um, 592 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: this one mom, Kim had a little baby, Tyler Taylor, 593 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: and then there's Jessica Mazac, also a young mom. One 594 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: body Taylor stuffed inside a standalone freezer. The other Mazac 595 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: had been disposed of, just tossed into a pond on 596 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: the very same property. Joining me on this story, Scott Kimbler, 597 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, Investigative Reporter, Let's take it to the beginning. Okay, 598 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: that's what we have here is last Thursday, we have 599 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: a man who walks into a hospital in uh this 600 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: this part of California with blood all over his clothing. 601 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: And when the sheriff's officers speak to him about this um, 602 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: they're then led to this almond farm where they find 603 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: a residence there and the inside the residence is just 604 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: all covered with blood and there looking around, and that 605 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: is when they find the the one woman, the thirty 606 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: nine year old, in a freezer there. And as they're 607 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: investigating that death, they began to look around for another 608 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: person that was associated with the residents, and they're searching 609 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: the property. That is when they find the marijuana grow 610 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: farm as you had mentioned earlier. And also they find 611 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: they miss mazac in a pond at that location, so 612 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: they go there for one reason looking around, but then 613 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: when they get there they find a horde of other things. 614 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: That's very gruesome scene, but also the two bodies, and 615 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: that is exactly why so often people don't go to 616 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: the hospital and they're injured in illegal activity. New details 617 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,879 Speaker 1: emerging now to women close friends found dead in a 618 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,760 Speaker 1: freezer and a pond at a Caloosa County almond farmed. Now, 619 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: as Cheryl alluded, do we discover illegal pot also grown there? 620 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 1: In Arbuckle, California? Investigators now releasing these new details about 621 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: the two women whose bodies were found at an Arbuckle home. 622 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 1: One man believed to have killed both. But are there 623 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: more bodies? Why were they there? Alan? Do you? They 624 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: are saying that they discover illegal pot being grown on 625 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: the almond farm. But hasn't it been legalized in California? Yes, 626 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: as of the last few weeks, you can buy recreational marijuana, 627 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: but there's the problem with the growing of it. They're 628 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: still doing illegal pot grows around the state that bypass 629 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: all the taxes and everything else. So there's still that 630 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: market for illegal marijuana and actually is growing because there's 631 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 1: fewer penalties for it and they're not enforcing it as much. 632 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, they're still legal pot farms out there. Deputies respond, 633 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: You're gonna always have illegal pot farms. And here's the reason. 634 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: Just like wine is regulated by the government, so your 635 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: wine is only gonna be nine percent alcohol. Marijuana is 636 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: going to have the same problem. They regulate how much 637 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: THHD is involved. So you're always going to have people 638 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: that buy moonshine, for example. You're always gonna have people 639 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: that won't marijuana that's not regulated. Yeah, you're right about that. 640 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: Deputies respond to the home round four a m after 641 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: one of the victim's roommates reports suspicious circumstances and that 642 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: the women had disappeared. Deputies arrive at the home. They 643 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: find tail are stuffed in a freezer. The freezer in 644 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: a bedroom of an attached residence on the property, like 645 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: I guess a pool house or a guesthouse. That led 646 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: them to search the entire property, and that afternoon they 647 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: find a dive team lines mazac another young mom submerged 648 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: in a pond on the property. They of course find 649 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 1: the illegal marijuana grow. They also find narcotics. Later the 650 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: next day, they find out the owner had left the 651 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: night before and checked into Caloosive Medical Center. He wouldn't 652 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: say why he needed treatment. He was discharged. Then they 653 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 1: found him and arrested him. The motive as of right 654 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: now is unknown, but to Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, 655 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: joining me out of l A. Dr Bethany. I don't 656 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: understand what kind of mind or constitution would freeze a 657 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: young mom would put a young mom's dead body in 658 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: a freezer. Not only that that the way he killed 659 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: these women seemed to be such a violent attack. You 660 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: know the fact that there was blood all over the 661 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: inside of the resident sense um. It really implies to 662 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,399 Speaker 1: me it wasn't an act of sadism like we see 663 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 1: with so many serial killers, where they want to, you know, 664 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: strangle the woman and look in her eyes and and 665 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: see her pain and suffering. But this was actually a 666 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: rage attack of some sort. And you know, when I 667 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: think of rage attacks, I think of methamphetamine. I think 668 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: of somebody who may have some psychiatric disorder or has 669 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: a vendetta against women in general. A horror discovery at 670 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: a secret almond orchard where marijuana was also being grown, 671 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: bodies of women stuffed in a fraser and tossed into 672 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: a pond. These two young women, Kimberly Lion Taylor and 673 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: Jessica Lynn Mazac, dead, one in a chest fraser, the 674 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: other submerged in the pond out in the middle of 675 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,879 Speaker 1: a rural almond orchard in northern California. Now the same 676 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: of a double murder. At the very least, who is 677 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 1: this guy, Martin Christian Urkey, just forty nine years old, 678 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: living there in that farming community of only about people, 679 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: not too far from Sacramento. Both of these women were 680 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: living on the property just to work to raise money 681 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: to support their children. So why do you say a 682 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: rage killing? Dr Bethany? Because of the blood all over 683 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: the inside of the residents. That's why I say rage killing. 684 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,720 Speaker 1: There's sort of an overkill effect. I mean, you don't 685 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: have to I'm trying to think of what led to 686 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: blood all over the inside of the residents. I mean, 687 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: did he lugend them, did he stab them repeatedly? What 688 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,320 Speaker 1: did he do? And whatever he did, it seems it 689 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: would seem to be around the same time, right, because 690 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, presumably if one woman went missing and the 691 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: other woman was still on the farm, she would know 692 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: about it. So one went soon after the other. So 693 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking it's just because of the fact that 694 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: there's blood all over the inside, and you know, I'm 695 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: wondering with these two women being so vulnerable, being single, 696 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: moms raising their children. I know that a lot of 697 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: serial killers do target women who are vulnerable, and they 698 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: would really fit that description. I noticed that one of 699 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: the final posts by this guy, by the way, he 700 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: is completely fascinated with UFO conspiracy theories. Just to throw 701 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: in that fact, he says, the sky is falling. The 702 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 1: guy is falling. Did anyone see how close the moon is? 703 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: So I guess he thought, uh, Scott Kimber, that when 704 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: the moon appears to be big, it's actually closer to 705 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: the ear. Yes, that would appear to be his understanding. 706 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: And he also had a fascination with Native American culture 707 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 1: and as you said, a UFO conspiracy theory. So we 708 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: have a person here who's who is a bit out 709 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: of what you would consider the traditional norm. I love 710 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,800 Speaker 1: the you put Scott Kilberg take or he was psychic. 711 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what the local sheriff said. 712 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: It's a box style freezer that would be in a garage. 713 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 1: They were currently known to be here at this at 714 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 1: this residence, staying on and off. It's going to be 715 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: hard on this community for a while. It's a small community. Um, 716 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: everybody knows everybody. But now take a listen to what 717 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: a close high school friend, John Garcia tells Fox forty 718 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 1: about his friend Marty Urkey. When he was a kid, 719 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: we all went to school together, rode the bus too. 720 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, every day you think you know somebody and 721 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: you don't. And when the name came up, it didn't 722 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: really ring a bell. But then when I started thinking, 723 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: that can't be Marty Irkey, and yeah it was. Um 724 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: so they're blown away. Nobody, nobody. It's hard to believe, 725 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, It's just they're they're blown away. We are 726 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,240 Speaker 1: on the case as Justice unfoals Nancy Grace Crime Stories, 727 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend in