1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Well. 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: As Greg was saying, Apple shares are down for the 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: worst to day route since April two thousand and sixteen, 9 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: giving up some of the unbelievable games this year. Just 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: to put into perspective, even with the past two days 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: of losses, Apple shares are up more than twenty six 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: percent year to date share over day. Is a Bloomberg 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: gad Flight columnus and she joins us here in our 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven three oh studios. Shira, Uh, you know, first 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: of all, before we get to sort of whether this 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: route can deepen, while I mean, is this just basically 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: to be expected after such a massive rally earlier in 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: the year. Yeah, there is no particular trigger for the 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: tech stocks, and it's not just Apple right all. A 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: lot of the big tech stocks, including Google and Facebook 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: and Amazon and in video, the chip company that has 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: been one of the better performing tech stocks in the 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: last couple of years, Fang plus others. Uh, they are all, 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, getting punched in the nose basically since Friday. 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: And there's no particularly good reason. But as you pointed out, 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: a lot of those tech stocks have done exceptionally well 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: this year and has helped drive you know, the overall 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: stock market in the US up, and so I think 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: there was a little bit of a realization that, oh, shoot, 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: maybe this has gotten a little bit overdone and we 31 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: need to sell and move into other sectors of of 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: the industry of technology and beyond. Well, I was just looking, 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: for example, at the NAS deck and you'd have to 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: shed another hundred and ten points let's say, just get 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: back to the fifty day moving average, and you'd have 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: to lose even more to get to the ninety day 37 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: and the well the even longer the two day moving average. 38 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: So the technicals are not looking great for the technology stocks. Apple. 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: Let's talk specifically about Apple. The most recent conversation we've 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: had has to do with a qual Con chip and 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: an Intel chip going into their newest iPhone and how 42 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: they're going to limit the speed in the iPhone to 43 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: the Intel chip because they do not offer this fast 44 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: processing power. Has Apple gotten to the point where it 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: is so big that it cannot find enough vendors to 46 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: offset the potential for picking a vendor that they're going 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: to either be in a lawsuit with or provides technology 48 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: that doesn't match what Apple wants. So Apple is always 49 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: very conscious about becoming overly reliant on one or two 50 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: parts suppliers, particularly of crucial parts like computer chips that 51 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: go into its phones, right and modem chips, which is 52 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: the Qualcom Intel issue. Um. The The issue is there 53 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: are only two companies, Intel and Qualcom that are really 54 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: at scale suppliers of these kind of crucial modem ships 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: where the phone is basically connecting with cellular networks, and 56 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: Qualcom is the undisputed leader. But Apple doesn't want to 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: become too reliant on Qualcom, in part because Qualcom and 58 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: Apple are now engaged in this very messy, angry, high 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: stakes financial litigation over whether Qualcom is kind of overcharging 60 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: for its chips to Apple and others. Uh And so 61 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: as a consequence, Apple wants to have a little bit 62 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: of you know, vendor choices, and it's it's using both 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: Apple and I'm sorry, Intel and Qualcom chips in the phone. Well, 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking to John Butler about this last 65 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: week of Limberg Intelligence, and he was saying, Okay, look, yes, 66 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: Apple may not have the highest speed UH connection available 67 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: to its a new iPhone, but most people aren't going 68 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: to care. And frankly, people who are in the iPhone 69 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: world and our devote devotees to Apple are going to 70 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: stay devotees to Apple. And I just have to wonder, 71 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, at this point, is this dip in the 72 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: share prices does this signify the people have reached their 73 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: limit in buying on pure faith that something is going 74 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: to change and a shift into show me mode? And 75 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: that's going to This is going to really be a 76 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: shift in sentiment that isn't necessarily going to mean a 77 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: deep sell off, but will mean more skepticism going forward 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: and a need to see more evidence that they can 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: consustain the growth that they have seen in the past. 80 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: I think that's very good point. Look, the fact remains 81 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: that the run up we've seen an Apple's share price 82 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: this year and starting last late last year is largely 83 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: because of expectations of a big surgeon iPhone stale sales 84 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: starting later this year, when Apples expected to introduce a 85 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: new kind of dramatically overhauled iPhone, and if that thing 86 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: doesn't sell like hotcakes, I don't know what happens to 87 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: Apple share price. You saw one of the Mizuho, one 88 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: of the Apple animals downgrade the stock this morning or 89 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: overnight on basically saying, look, a lot of the enthusiasm 90 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: for this new iPhone. It's gonna have, you know, fancier 91 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: screen and um, all kinds of advanced features. If a 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 1: lot of that enthusiasm is already baked into the share price, 93 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: So that's the big risk for Apple. I'm just curious. 94 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what the new iPhone eight 95 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: might cost? There are some reports that it could be 96 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: upwards of a thousand dollars. Yes, we don't know. UM. 97 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: The reporting from Bloomberg and others has said there's going 98 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: to be three new models of the iPhone, the you know, 99 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: regular iPhone, the hot larger screen plus model, and then 100 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: this kind of third probably fancier and even more expensive 101 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: iPhone model. And yes, some of the reports are it 102 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: might cost a thousand dollars or more, which is kind 103 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: of a staggering sum to think about paying for, you know, 104 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: a slab of glass and circuits. You could use an 105 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: eyebill on your Apple Watch and maybe through Apple Pay. Sure. Ovida, 106 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Hearra Ovida is 107 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: a technology columnist with Bloomberg gad Fly and joins us 108 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: here in our Bloomberg eleven three oh studios. Well, emerging 109 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: markets debt has absolutely been in a hotspot this year. 110 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: I'm just looking and that flows to mutual funds, most 111 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: of which track some kind of broad index inflows total 112 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: more than forty billion dollars to emerging markets debt uh 113 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: so far this year. To get some perspective on why 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: the flows have been so intense, at what these people 115 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: are really investing in, I want to bring in Damien Sassaur. 116 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: He's a fixing strategist for bloom Intelligence. He joins us 117 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: here in our Bloomberg eleven three oh studios. Damien, I 118 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: was looking at the biggest e t F that focuses 119 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: on emerging markets debt, and last week alone, this e 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: t F had some unprecedented flows almost a billion dollars 121 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: in a week coming in. And yet you pointed out 122 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: in recent research that the underlying index is actually getting 123 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: weaker from a credit perspective. Yeah, no, that's right. So 124 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: in terms of credit quality, lisa UM, what we're seeing 125 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: are UM a lot of EM high held sovereigns being 126 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: added to the index. We're seeing I guess, you know, 127 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: fundamentally weaker corporate and quasi sovereign credits, specifically in the 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: financial sector coming from some um, some suspect EM economies 129 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: such as Nigeria, which I pointed out. I mean, just 130 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: last week we saw the Ivory coast Um issue nearly 131 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: two billion dollars in HARDCORENCY bonds. Yet only a month 132 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: ago there's a forty mutiny by soldiers and in twenty eleven, 133 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: the company a company the country the faulted on its 134 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: sovereign bonds. So I mean these are not UM you know, 135 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: these are just not your everyday high quality credits. And 136 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: you were talking about a Nigerian bank that sold a debt. 137 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: It was the first benchmark bond offering benchmark eligible bond 138 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: offering from a Nigerian bank since two thousand fourteen, and 139 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Nigerian banks have a history of defaulting. Now that's correct, 140 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: So I mean access bank issued at the end of 141 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: last year, but they are not benchmark eligible. They're only 142 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: three hundred million, although that might make them eligible for 143 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: the JP Morgan and hence the e M b E 144 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: t F, But the Bloomberg Barkley's e M Hard Currency 145 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: agg which is, you know, the broad measure that we 146 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: follow here. You have to have a minimum five million 147 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: dollar a new issues in order to be included within 148 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: that index. So we don't really we didn't really include 149 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: access in our analysis. But Zennith Bank, who just um 150 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: issued last week and I'm sorry last month, and then 151 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: Uba on the heels of that, they're having no problems 152 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: happing these markets and they're you know, it's it's green 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: light Gopher Nigeria. Four and a half percent. That's the 154 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: yield at least currently on the Bloomberg Barkley's Emerging Markets 155 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: US are Aggregate bond index right about that four and 156 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: a half percent. What kind of duration risk are people 157 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: taking on to get that whopping four and a half percent? 158 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: You know, that is a great point, I mean, PIM. 159 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: You know, on the sovereign side, what you're seeing now 160 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: is the duration has i think extended out nearly seven years. 161 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: So you're getting seven year em sovereign debt, you know, 162 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: and and the way you have to look at buying 163 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: a car, right, I mean because the car payments right, 164 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: I mean sixty months. And pim those Ivory Coast bonds 165 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: have a sixteen year maturity, I mean sixteen years. I 166 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: mean this again is a country that defaulted last eleven 167 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: and a month ago. You know that there was a 168 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: mutiny by by the military. Meanwhile, four and a half 169 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: percent is not very much relative to history, right, So 170 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: this isn't exactly a high yield that investors are getting. 171 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: That said, a lot of investors continue to pour money 172 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: into this space. And you hear a lot of sophisticated 173 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: money managers, including PIMCO, say, you know what you do 174 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: have developing markets? Uh that in some cases hold more 175 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: promise the developed markets where rates are really low and 176 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: growth is slowing and the population is aging. So how 177 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: do you sort of square these ideas well? I think 178 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: I think, you know, shifting to high grade. And this 179 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: is an important point that a lot of people also 180 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: aren't considering um GCC. The Middle East has I mean 181 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: there have been massive, massive issues from Saudi Arabia, from Aman, 182 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: from Kuwait, I'm talking eight nine. I mean just last year, 183 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: we know Saudi issued nineteen billion, but they just did 184 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: a cook issue this year for nine billion. On top 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: of that, I mean, their leverage at the sovereign level 186 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: has increased. It's just been huge. So now you know, 187 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: you look at these countries. These are countries that generate 188 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: their revenue through oil, and if oil stays weak or 189 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: continues to week and these are high grade you know, 190 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: single double A credits that are fundamentally weaker also, but 191 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: again you know, forgive me, those are high grade credit 192 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: quality issues, right. But the reason why I ask is 193 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: because you do have so much money coming in, you 194 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: do have yields dropping at a faster pace in some cases, 195 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: and similarly rated US credit it and you have to wonder, 196 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: are people uh just blind to this risk and going 197 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: into indexes that have all sorts of things that they're 198 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: not aware of, or people fully aware, but they still 199 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: think that there's an attractiveness here. Well, Muhammad al Arean, 200 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean he said that fundament you know, we've pretty 201 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: much the coupled from fundamentals, and I have to kind 202 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: of agree in large respect to that. I mean, if 203 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: you just look at the three drivers. We just did 204 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: our mid year outlook at b I on the e 205 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: M side, and if you just look at China five 206 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: year CDs UM, the US dollar and oil prices collectively, 207 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: they mean e M spreads are eighty percent correlated to 208 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: these three factors. And those three factors alone are responsible 209 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: for determining six of the movement and EUM credit spreads 210 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: of the last two years using weekly data. So yeah, 211 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: it's market it's external factors that are driving spreads. So 212 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: if they're external factors driving spreads, external factors could also 213 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: make these investments go south pretty quickly if if if 214 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: they do go the other way. PIM, That's exactly what. 215 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: There's nothing underneath it, right, I mean, there there's no 216 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: bid that is holding this up, or is there. I'm 217 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: not I am not an oil I am not the 218 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: right guy to be talking to you about sovereign set 219 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: for example. I mean it's not as if you're going 220 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: to find the Bank of Japan buying Nigerian government bonds. Um, 221 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: You're right, I mean, look, you know, I mean it's 222 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: it's funny how some of these some of these e 223 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: M portfolios where you know who's buying them and where 224 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: they're winding up these days, and how people are you know, 225 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: looking for incrementally yielding new places. So for all I know, 226 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: the Bank of Japan could be buying You've been even 227 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: covering this area for a long time, Damien. And have 228 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: you seen a shift with investors going more into indexed 229 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: strategies and could that pose a risk? Yes, now that 230 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: that is definitely a risk if if flows turn the 231 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: other way. I mean, I think, you know, and again 232 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, use my colleague Mike mcgloan who 233 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: runs commodity, who's the commodity strategy that b I you know, 234 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: e m takes the escalator up and the elevator down, 235 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: and you know, when things turn the other way and 236 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: sentiment shifts, uh negatively, you could really see you know, 237 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: spreads uh you know, potentially wide and quite quite quite quickly. 238 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could use Petro Brass, the Brazilian 239 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: oil giant, as an example of some of the things 240 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: that can happen that you don't expect and they're trying 241 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: to get ahead of the game, but it's challenging. You know. 242 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: Petro Brass is an interesting one because they they've done 243 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: a great job. Look they're coming off a low base, 244 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: and they have effectively been extending their maturities, restructuring their 245 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: day that they've been selling non core assets, they've actually 246 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: been cleaning up their balot sheets. So all this negative, 247 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: you know Michi Goswork talking about with regard to em credit, 248 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: Petro brass I can't put in that category. They've done 249 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: a really good job of cleaning things up. And and 250 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: look there are examples of that, you know where you know, 251 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: fundamentally the companies are getting better and and so you know, 252 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: it's a big universe. It's a two trillion dollar universe. 253 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: You know, at least if you're looking at the Bloomberg Barkleys, 254 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, kind of aggregate and you know you've got 255 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: you've got good stories and you've got bad stories. I 256 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: want to thank you very much forgiving us the story. 257 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: Are you guys always Damian Sasaur expert when it comes 258 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: to fixed incomes strategies for Bloomberg Intelligence. In fact, he 259 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: just knows everything about emerging markets. Much appreciated. I want 260 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: to bring in Jeffrey Quisena, Chief Investments for a just 261 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: at Fifth third Bank in Chicago, to talk about an 262 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: issue that i've been thinking a lot about Recently, after 263 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: President Trump withdrew from the Paris Accord, we heard executives 264 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: from Disney, Goldman, Sachs, IBM, Tesla's Elon Musk come out 265 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: denouncing the decision and saying that this was a big, 266 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: big mistake. But the mood was very different among small 267 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: business owners and I want to get a sense of 268 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: how they responded to this and why. Jeffrey, thank you 269 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Can you just give us 270 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: a sense and your discussions with businesses in Middle America 271 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: smaller businesses, Why is it that some of them have 272 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: embraced this decision for the US to withdraw from the 273 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: Paris Climate Accord. For the most part, it is not 274 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: because it directly impacts their business, but it's the symbolism. 275 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: From their standpoint, this is a president who is still 276 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: on track with many of the campaign promises towards deregulation. 277 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: They understand that the Paris Accords would carry some burdens 278 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: uh with it for for regulation, particularly energy sector. Energy 279 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: drives a lot of manufacturing, so so they're seeing this 280 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: as the symbolic value of yet another step that supports deregulation, 281 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: and that's really important. To small business owners, can you 282 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: just bring in the debate about healthcare as well, because 283 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: that also is a focus of small business owners and 284 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: it is something that will affect their bottom line. Sure. 285 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: What one of the things that I think is important 286 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: is the definition. When I speak about small business owners, 287 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: I often hear from people who are are sold proprietors, 288 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: or of one or two employees. What I'm really talking 289 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: about is the economic definition of small business, which is 290 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: generally five hundred employees or fewer um. When you get 291 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: My observation is that when you get to the fifty 292 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: to a couple hundred employees, that's where they feel the 293 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: burdens the most. So the affordable health care is has 294 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: been a costly imposition um. And again this is from 295 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: their viewpoint. This is as citizens, we just can decide 296 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: whether this is good or bad. But from their standpoint, 297 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: it's a cost cost. The imposition of new rules and requirements, 298 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: many of the environmental many of the labor laws, all 299 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: of these things have been particularly burdened. Some small business 300 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: owners view this differently. UM. These are generally privately held businesses. 301 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: Any dollar cost of regulation or our other requirement is 302 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: essentially a dollar out of their pockets. So they've taken 303 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: very personally. That doesn't mean it's right or wrong, um, 304 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: that they should take it this way, but it's certainly understandable. 305 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: So Jeffrey, UM, I don't have the sense that there 306 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: have been huge sweeping changes made yet that will materially 307 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: change their outlook. Am I wrong with that that? No? 308 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: I I think that's right. But there is a broad understanding, UM, 309 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: in the in the businesses that I've spoken to, and 310 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: I speak in front of thousands of small business owners 311 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: every year and speak directly to hundreds over the course 312 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: of the year, there is an understanding that much of 313 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: the deregulation can be accomplished through the executive branch, and 314 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: so they see that as something that is moving forward. UM. 315 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: I don't believe they're out over their skis and anticipating 316 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: too much progress on legislative action, that they're not banking 317 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: on that. Uh. As it's been explained to me, it's 318 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: not just deregulation, it's the fact that the constant adding 319 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: of regulations that was going on has halted, and that 320 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: I think is fair to say. And and Jeffrey, do 321 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: you get the sense that among these hundreds of small 322 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: businesses that you speak with every year. They are pleased 323 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: with what they're seeing so far, and that they approve 324 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: of President Trump's performance. I think that's that's generally true. 325 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: That's that's obviously a very big generalization that is in 326 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: some ways unfair to make. But I think that the President, 327 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, speaks well to that community, UM, and 328 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: they feel that he, having run businesses himself, UM and 329 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: essentially being a private business owner, is one of them. 330 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: So there's a level of sympathy or empathy that they're 331 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: feeling that they have not felt in some previous administrations. Alright. So, 332 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: having said all that, though, I'm wondering do they feel 333 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: any uh, any sort of anxiety over the ability of 334 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: the United States to do business with international partners like Mexico, 335 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: like Canada. It's it's not great to do business with 336 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: people that you've just in many cases disrespected, you know. 337 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: I think that's a very legitimate point. Again, UM, this 338 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: is my interpretation, but I've seen it fairly consistently. UM. 339 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: I think most people UM in that position, small business 340 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: owners UM, are giving the president the benefit of the 341 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: doubt and see this as negotiating tactics rather than his 342 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: views reflecting an end result. All right, we're gonna leave 343 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: it there, but thanks very much for giving us this. 344 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Inside the mid market and focus Jeff Corzeneck. He is 345 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: an investment strategist for Fifth Third Bank. Speaking about the 346 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: divide between what big businesses and Lisa, you mentioned some 347 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: of those chief executives such as Lloyd blank Find and 348 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: Elon Musk coming out and saying that they proposed that 349 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: the U s stay in the Paris climate of Bardon 350 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: Goldman Sacks. Lloyd blank Find joined Twitter precisely for the 351 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: purpose of coming out against this, and Elon Musk resigned 352 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: from President Trump's Advisory council. So a lot of anger 353 00:19:51,840 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: on that side. We've seen a lot of changes in 354 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: the advertising business over the past decade, in large part 355 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: because of the changing way that people consume media. Well, 356 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: Andrew Esx has had a front row seat on all 357 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: of these changes. Andrew Esx CEO of Rebeca Enterprises in 358 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: New York, which of course is the host of Rebeca 359 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: Film Festival, which is also in New York. But he 360 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: also was the former chief executive officer of advertising agency 361 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: Droga five and he wrote a new book called The 362 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: end of advertising, why it had to die and the 363 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: creative resurrection to come. Very dramatic. Why are we seeing 364 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: the death of advertising? What is this death? And uh? 365 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: And where do we go from here? I really wanted 366 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: to call it the death of traditional advertising, but that 367 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: was a little less clickable. Yeah. Now this it's it's 368 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: much more dramatic, you know. But we're talking about the 369 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: eventual demise of three traditional forms, which is the thirty 370 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: second spot, the print insertion, and the classic display at 371 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: the banner at and that's driven by the rise of 372 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: ad blocking, the phenomena of over the top television which 373 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: has no commercial interruption, and general consumer behavior on platforms 374 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: in which traditional advertising is not native. So the whole 375 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: world is coming together to conspire against an old way 376 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: of doing things, and that's called evolution. Will okay, evolution? Andrew, 377 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm wanting if you could just speak a little bit 378 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: about your evolution to become the head of Tribeca Enterprises, because, 379 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: as Lisa just said, many people will know it because 380 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: of the Tribeca Film Festival and the creation of Jane 381 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: Rosenthal and Robert de Niro. Maybe just give a little 382 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: bit of your background in the print industry as well, 383 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: and how you got to this role. I'm kind of 384 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: a Darwin in mutation. I started in publishing, then I 385 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: went to what was called the dark side, which is advertising, 386 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: and now evolution you could still use exactly. And now 387 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm at an event, a live event, which is really 388 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: about storytelling and storytelling on any platform. So though although 389 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: we do film, we do amazing television, we do amazing talks, 390 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: we date a using music, amazing VR, amazing gaming, any 391 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: platform which you can tell a story. And I find 392 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: it's a natural conclusion of what I've been trying to do, 393 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: which is just to add value to people's lives through 394 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: good content. Well, you know, going going back to this 395 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: idea of moving away from the banner ad or the 396 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: thirty second spot, I mean, we are seeing native advertising. 397 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: We're seeing people who are getting paid explain explain what 398 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: explain what native advertising? Well, I've actually talked with people 399 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: who are paid to go to UH people's parties in 400 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: their homes, are paid to go to a bar and 401 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: consume Gray Goose vodka or whatever it is UH and 402 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: tell their friends about it. And this is a new 403 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: form of advertising. So you know, I see you're rolling 404 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: your eyes, But I mean, are there is there? Is 405 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: there some other form that we're evolving into or other forms? 406 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: What are the what are the most popular ones that 407 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: are going to survive? I think we're seeing this odd 408 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: rush or flight to quality. The issue really is abundance. 409 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: There's so much there right now, so many apps, so 410 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: many platforms, so much content, that there's no room anymore 411 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: for anything that's secondary. So the old ad model is 412 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: based on an adjacency, not the thing, the thing that 413 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: sold the thing, And there's no room there's something, no 414 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: more room for anything that's in the periphery. So what 415 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: you need to do is to be good. And the 416 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: the embodiment of this is the Lego movie, which I 417 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: think is the greatest ad ever. It's a film that 418 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: people paid to see that made five million dollars in revenue. 419 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: It is also a great piece of advertising. So in 420 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: other words, what you're what you're saying is that the 421 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: advertising has to that the advertisement has to be something 422 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: that people seek out. It can't be something that simply 423 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: catches someone's eye on the subway or on a bus. Well, 424 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: if it catches someone's eye, it's probably good. I think 425 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: it just has to be good. So advertising is based 426 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: on the premise that you could buy people's attention, that 427 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: you use paid media to get in front of people. 428 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: But again, because there's so much, it doesn't work anymore. 429 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: So you have to be entertaining. You have to add value, 430 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: you have to provide utility, you have to be good. 431 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: Crap is a immediately discarded. Well, all right, we're gonna 432 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: we're not gonna disagree with you. There, I'm gonna. I'm 433 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna push back, not that crap crap. I mean, 434 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: it's like of the beholder, but I have to push 435 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: back that this is anything new because I mean, frankly, 436 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: think about the Super Bowl advertisements. There's like the Super 437 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: Bowl of advertising, and people focus on those. I mean, 438 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: for a long time. It's about making sure that the 439 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: story is important as eye catching. I mean, this is 440 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: advertising one O one. No, Well, I don't know that 441 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: I agree with that. I think on Super Bowl it's 442 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: one day year, but for the rest of the sixty 443 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: four days of the year, people don't try that hard. 444 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: To be honest, with all due respect, but I thought 445 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: you were going to say that we're going back to 446 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: an old model of the soap Opera of ge Theater 447 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: of Mutual mahomes a wild I was going to say next, 448 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: which is really the place that I think we're revolving towards. 449 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: The brand brings you a piece of content and they 450 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: are the sponsor, the underwriter, but they're not the person 451 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: who interrupts the thing you wanted to see. So that 452 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: my be a future for a revamped Milton Burrow in 453 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: the Texico Hour. Don't don't don't I feel the future 454 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: coming on? You know. One of the things I wanted 455 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: to ask you about is your relationship with lions Gate. 456 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: Give you about the twenty seconds, how that developed and 457 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: how that demonstrates some of the changes you're talking about. Sure, 458 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: that's just really about subscription video on demand, is that 459 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: you have to take Brian like Tribeca and put it 460 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: on different platforms. So we need to make the obligatory 461 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: shift to mobile and that's where we live on the device. 462 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: Well done, Thank you very much for being with us. 463 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: And of course I've got to ask you what's your 464 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: favorite film? My favorite film? I better have Robert de 465 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: Niro winning. Well, the new HBO already made off thing 466 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: is pretty spectacular, but you know it's the Golden Age 467 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: of television. So I'm an episodic TV guy right now. 468 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: I confess I did actually watch that this weekend, strangely, 469 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: and the portrayal is stunning. He's not too shabby, No, 470 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: not at all. I want to thank you very much. 471 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: Andrew Essex is the chief executive of Tribeca Enterprises. He 472 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: has a new book. It is entitled The End of Advertising, 473 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: Why It Had to Die and the Creative Resurrection to Calm. 474 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: I sense a little perhaps money opportunity there. Thanks for 475 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can 476 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or 477 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on 478 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa abramoids one. 479 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide on 480 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.