Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. TJ.
Speaker 2: Holmes here alongside Amy Roeboch and it's a story that
Speaker 2: really we've only seen in movies. Somebody goes into a
Speaker 2: morgue and find somebody in there with a toe tag,
Speaker 2: but alive. But this has happened in real life and
Speaker 2: a toddler is involved. Welcome to this episode here, Robes.
Speaker 2: This is I've seen this in a bunch of movies.
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I don't know how in
Speaker 2: God's name this happens. We should be grateful that the
Speaker 2: kid is alive, but how does this happen?
Speaker 1: It's alarming beyond belief. I mean, a one year old
Speaker 1: and we're talking it was I believe. When we'll get
Speaker 1: into the timeline of how this all unfolded, but it
Speaker 1: was five hours after this little boy was pronounced dead,
Speaker 1: his body in the morgue, someone from the medical Examiner's
Speaker 1: office coming to pick him up and realizes, holy hell,
Speaker 1: this little baby has a pulse and is breathing.
Speaker 2: And you think a mistake is made. You think, how
Speaker 2: can a mistake like that be made? And then you
Speaker 2: think about maybe this is some kind of a miracle. Well,
Speaker 2: they don't think it's that so let's get into what
Speaker 2: we're talking about in Robes. This was an incident that
Speaker 2: happened in February. It happened on Super Bowl Sunday, actually,
Speaker 2: but it happened in February. We're only getting it now
Speaker 2: because the police report was just made public.
Speaker 1: That's correct. We're talking about one year old Vincent Lorenzo
Speaker 1: fior Delino. He was well, he is at the time.
Speaker 1: He was a one year old from Arizona. And yet
Speaker 1: his parents had a Super Bowl party, so you can see. Look,
Speaker 1: we have both I'm sure covered tragic events where kids
Speaker 1: go missing, end up drowning, end up in some harms
Speaker 1: way because the parents are distracted, they're at a party.
Speaker 1: Everyone thinks someone else is watching the child. They have
Speaker 1: two other young children in the home. But somehow little
Speaker 1: Vincent goes outside of his family home and falls into
Speaker 1: the and so a nine to one one call is
Speaker 1: placed by the family, the desperate family at five thirty pm,
Speaker 1: and Vincent is rushed to the hospital.
Speaker 2: Yes, work is being done on him, according to all reports,
Speaker 2: but Robes he was officially declared dead. A doctor ordered
Speaker 2: that the resuscitation and everything be stopped to life saving measures,
Speaker 2: so as to your point. Robes, he's dead. Family says
Speaker 2: they're goodbyes. He goes to the morgue and it wasn't
Speaker 2: identified until later when the medical examiner showed up five
Speaker 2: hours later. Now we go, holy hell, what happened? The
Speaker 2: details robes from the pool to the morgue are very
Speaker 2: important here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I actually have a timeline just to
Speaker 1: give you the full perspective. So again, the nine one
Speaker 1: one call is placed by the family at five thirty pm,
Speaker 1: and they are desperate. They are saying he is not
Speaker 1: showing signs of life. They are trying to perform CPR.
Speaker 1: He's rushed to the hospital and police are there. So
Speaker 1: they actually have body cam video. We actually can hear
Speaker 1: the audio. We know the time stamps, and so at
Speaker 1: five point thirty the call goes in. At six twenty pm,
Speaker 1: doctor Arian Tussey pronounces Vincent dead and he says, no objections,
Speaker 1: I'd like to call time of death. Let's take a
Speaker 1: moment of silence. This is at six twenty pm. Six
Speaker 1: minutes later, at six twenty six, you can hear the
Speaker 1: mom say, he's breathing. Is that normal? The nurse says,
Speaker 1: I have a pulse. And so the officer makes a
Speaker 1: note on his police report that the toddler was quote
Speaker 1: still possibly breathing based on the appearance of his stomach
Speaker 1: and chest area rising and falling. But the nurse had
Speaker 1: an explanation for the family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is a thing I have heard
Speaker 2: about this folks from the Obysea's a body can really
Speaker 2: expel gases, oxygen. This does happen. Agon old breathing, I
Speaker 2: think is what they got all exactly what it calls comes,
Speaker 2: it comes out. So it's a natural thing that was
Speaker 2: dismissed by the medical folks as just that. But robes,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just the mom It seems like several people,
Speaker 2: officers and the family were saying, hey, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: and then a nurse also saying, wait a minute, I
Speaker 2: think I got a pulse. Well, so several people were
Speaker 2: essentially trying to say, hey, everybody, I think we got
Speaker 2: a live one here.
Speaker 1: I'm so confused because it was always my belief or
Speaker 1: understanding that, especially when it comes to a child, doctors
Speaker 1: will continue to perform CPR. They'll do everything, They'll shock
Speaker 1: the little heart, they'll do whatever it takes to try
Speaker 1: and see if they can get a pulse. If someone
Speaker 1: is saying I have a pulse, it is utterly confusing.
Speaker 1: Why the doctor did and said? What happened next?
Speaker 2: According to police, well, I guess he thought otherwise. I mean,
Speaker 2: even no matter what somebody said, he's there checking as well,
Speaker 2: is he not?
Speaker 1: Can only assume. So, yes, you've got the parents, you've
Speaker 1: got police, you've got the nurse all saying it looks
Speaker 1: like he's breathing, it seems like he has a pulse.
Speaker 1: But the doctor pronounced him dead. And when he was
Speaker 1: questioned about it, according to the police report, it says
Speaker 1: doctor Tucy arrogantly told the officer that quote he was
Speaker 1: the doctor, he has the medical degree, he went to
Speaker 1: medical school for a reason, and to let him do
Speaker 1: his thing. That is a direct quote from the police report.
Speaker 2: I don't know this doctor, but that reads like for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, Robes I've read that, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could see a doctor of not knocking doctors. But
Speaker 2: I have known some who have that type of attitude.
Speaker 2: They don't want to hear anybody question their expertise. I
Speaker 2: do this, you don't. You went to copp acated. I
Speaker 2: am the doctor and I could see Robes did arrogance
Speaker 2: play a role this kid not getting proper treatment an
Speaker 2: arrogant doctor.
Speaker 1: Some would call that an oxymoron. No, but seriously, interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: this doctor specifically is kind of a young doctor in
Speaker 1: terms of doctors go, so yes, maybe you could say
Speaker 1: arrogance is more likely or something you might more likely
Speaker 1: encounter in a younger doctor. A guy who thinks he's
Speaker 1: just gotten a medical school and knows it all. But
Speaker 1: he holds an osteopathic physician's license that was issued in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, so this was at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year, so three years as a licensed doctor. He
Speaker 1: completed his residency at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan. Just
Speaker 1: so happens to be the hospital I was born in
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. So yeah, he's a fairly young doctor.
Speaker 1: So just a little background on him. Will have more
Speaker 1: on that in just a moment. But yes, so that
Speaker 1: was at six twenty pronounces this little boy dead despite
Speaker 1: the protests maybe light protests from those around him. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until eleven fifty two pm, just before midnight, when
Speaker 1: a transporter from the Medical Examiner's office was told to
Speaker 1: take the little boy's body and bring it over to
Speaker 1: the coroner's office. When he discovered that the toddler was
Speaker 1: breathing and had a pulse that moment, I cannot imagine
Speaker 1: what that was like.
Speaker 2: Good, well, it's I guess we're supposed to Well I
Speaker 2: don't know, Robes, how to go back now and to
Speaker 2: think this kid is sitting there five hours by himself,
Speaker 2: needing medical care, and what that could have meant exactly mistakes. No,
Speaker 2: you're a pilot, you're a doctor. You don't make mistakes.
Speaker 2: There are some mistakes you just cannot make. There's a
Speaker 2: reason for that, Robes.
Speaker 1: This is just.
Speaker 2: I don't understand. Look, there there's a I don't know
Speaker 2: how you miss that. I just don't. And these are doctors,
Speaker 2: they know their thing. But there's a whole full cardio
Speaker 2: pulmonary death exam they're supposed to go through. There are
Speaker 2: steps you are supposed to follow to confirm the death
Speaker 2: of somebody. For him to what I don't have enough
Speaker 2: time for this, or that's good enough, or I'll call it.
Speaker 2: Why you should be working on this kid for five hours?
Speaker 1: Look, I watched the pit I watched er. You know
Speaker 1: you see these obviously Hollywood versions depicting what it's like
Speaker 1: in an emergency room, and it's just something that you
Speaker 1: assume goes on where they go till beyond, way beyond
Speaker 1: what they should to try and make sure or to
Speaker 1: see if they could bring someone back to life, and
Speaker 1: especially considering drowning deaths. Look, this is really really rare,
Speaker 1: but we have heard of the ability of people to
Speaker 1: survive being underwater, and this little boy reportedly was underwater
Speaker 1: for five minutes before his family discovered him. But we
Speaker 1: mentioned it was February, February ninth in Air, Arizona, and
Speaker 1: they said that the pool temperature was under sixty degrees.
Speaker 1: That's important because we have heard again really rare, but
Speaker 1: in cold water you can be resuscitated. That somehow that
Speaker 1: cold water allows your body to stay alive. And so honestly,
Speaker 1: he was in the perfect conditions for the possibility of
Speaker 1: him being able to be resuscitated.
Speaker 2: Yes, he went to the wrong doctor. I mean, what
Speaker 2: the hell, I don't know what could have happened. Yes,
Speaker 2: the kid will give the update on his condition, but
Speaker 2: it wrotes. I just don't I just don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: blown away that something like this can happen. This is
Speaker 2: some Jesus stuff. This is Lazarus. Yes, there is a
Speaker 2: thing the Lazarus effect. Well, the name of the movie
Speaker 2: is a Lazarus effect. Yes, if you haven't seen a
Speaker 2: horror movie, it's kind of we got to go back
Speaker 2: and watch it today. Olivia Wilde, Yes, absolutely anyway. But
Speaker 2: this idea, this Lazarus phenomenon, it's they're so rare, these
Speaker 2: documented cases of auto resuscitation were people have been known
Speaker 2: to their heart stop and just after CPR on their
Speaker 2: own it's start again.
Speaker 1: Yes, but obviously, if you're in that situation, in that
Speaker 1: delicate balance between life and death, you would think if
Speaker 1: he were still alive, oxygen would have been pumped into
Speaker 1: his brain and his body and fluids would be in
Speaker 1: there just trying to bring back all of his organs
Speaker 1: to life. And what ended up happening five hours goes
Speaker 1: by more than five hours goes by the moment this
Speaker 1: transporter finds this little boy still breathing, he is immediately
Speaker 1: airlifted to a children's hospital, but they describe the situation
Speaker 1: as while he's being airlifted, his organs are shutting down.
Speaker 1: An initial MRI identified potential brain damage. Later they say
Speaker 1: there was none found. However, his family says because of
Speaker 1: this ordeal, he requires extensive therapy and will be he
Speaker 1: will require lifelong care. Isn't He isn't fully recovered back
Speaker 1: to normal, And the questions are could he have had
Speaker 1: a better shot at a normal life had he been
Speaker 1: given immediate medical attention.
Speaker 2: I bet that's coming up at trial. Yes, that's the question.
Speaker 2: How can you ever, I mean, can they ever? Are
Speaker 2: they ever going to be able to prove that had
Speaker 2: he gotten five hours worth of treatment, he wouldn't have
Speaker 2: ended up in the state he's in.
Speaker 1: They will certainly be How are.
Speaker 2: They going to prove that he was going to end
Speaker 2: up in this way? No matter what?
Speaker 1: This is going to be? Yes, a question for the courts,
Speaker 1: but we will point out right now and it doesn't
Speaker 1: appear as if this doctor is going to be facing
Speaker 1: any criminal charges. But he has retained an attorney, and
Speaker 1: the attorney did make a comment when obviously this is
Speaker 1: of significant interest to a lot of folks, so he's
Speaker 1: been getting a lot of inquiries, and the attorney made
Speaker 1: this statement. Out of courtesy to the family and patient confidentiality,
Speaker 1: we respectfully declined to make a statement at this time.
Speaker 1: I doubt that it's out of respect for the family.
Speaker 1: My apologies for calling that into question. This is about
Speaker 1: legal protection, which is understandable and right now. I thought
Speaker 1: this was interesting. I looked through several different media reports.
Speaker 1: It's unclear if doctor Tucy is still employed or if
Speaker 1: he has been placed on any sort of leave, pending
Speaker 1: an investigation from Dignity Health, which is where he worked
Speaker 1: and where the child was initially brought to. Dignity Health
Speaker 1: did not respond to media requests about the status of
Speaker 1: doctor Tuccy, so we don't know that. But when we
Speaker 1: come back, we will talk about another question. Will these
Speaker 1: parents now face charges because it turns out they were
Speaker 1: smoking marijuana when their child fell into the pool. Welcome
Speaker 1: back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. We
Speaker 1: are talking about a miraculous recovery, but a lot of
Speaker 1: questions about who's to blame. What went wrong when a
Speaker 1: one year old Childler fell into his family's pool while
Speaker 1: they were all enjoying the Super Bowl at a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl party. He's removed from being underwater after five minutes,
Speaker 1: declared pronounced dead by a doctor, and more than five
Speaker 1: hours later, is found alive in the morgue. Now the
Speaker 1: parents admit and admitted to smoking marijuana at the time
Speaker 1: their son fell into the water, and police reported smelling
Speaker 1: marijuana when they came to the home, and so they
Speaker 1: actually said that his parents were quote impaired by marijuana
Speaker 1: and or other mind altering substances. So right now the
Speaker 1: DA is considering pressing charges.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, um, I don't know those circumstances, robes, Accidents happen.
Speaker 2: Accidents happened to good people and good parents who turn
Speaker 2: their back for something or for a moment. Take the
Speaker 2: marijuana out of the whole equation, and just there was
Speaker 2: a party going on. This parent thought another parent was correct,
Speaker 2: and this happened, we would look at it as an accident.
Speaker 2: I don't know why just inserting marijuana into the story
Speaker 2: now leads to some judgment about their parenting. So I
Speaker 2: want to pump the brakes on that. But it's hard
Speaker 2: to go about punishing folks who have been punished as
Speaker 2: much as they have with everything. They went ropes, They
Speaker 2: said goodbye to their child. Yes, they said bye and
Speaker 2: went home, and then got a call five or six
Speaker 2: hours later and said, oh, by the way, they've been
Speaker 2: through a lot ropes. They've been through it, and.
Speaker 1: Look, I also would ask these couple of questions. First
Speaker 1: of all, if they had just had a couple beers,
Speaker 1: would that be considered a charge as well because they
Speaker 1: had been drinking or they had had a little bit
Speaker 1: of alcohol? How much marijuana did they have? Did they
Speaker 1: smoke one joint? I mean, like, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of questions.
Speaker 2: And does that automatically lead to parental neglect? Exactly, you
Speaker 2: were high and then something happened, So that means it
Speaker 2: happened because you.
Speaker 1: Were high, right, And here's the deal. I also, he
Speaker 1: was underwater for five minutes, So I'm just saying how
Speaker 1: many times as a parent did you maybe not know,
Speaker 1: especially if you were at a party where your kid
Speaker 1: was for five minutes. I know he was one, so
Speaker 1: he's a little guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's different.
Speaker 1: That's different if your eye on a kid, and if
Speaker 1: you have a pool, that is the whole other level.
Speaker 1: I remember just I never had a home with a
Speaker 1: pool when my kids were younger, but my mom and
Speaker 1: dad did, and every time we visited them, it was
Speaker 1: like your eagle eye trained on your kids. My mom
Speaker 1: had the doors locked, she had an alarm on the
Speaker 1: back door to the pool, just in case we knew
Speaker 1: if anybody opened a door and went outside. But look,
Speaker 1: I have personally covered a case almost identical to this.
Speaker 1: It was a mother's day party and a little two
Speaker 1: year old wandered out. Everyone thought someone else was watching him.
Speaker 1: He ended up drowning in the creek behind the home.
Speaker 1: There wasn't any allegation of marijuana or alcohol, but it
Speaker 1: only takes a few minutes for a child to wander
Speaker 1: away and drown and so within five minutes they found him.
Speaker 1: So look, I agree. I think that in this case,
Speaker 1: these parents are living with the nightmare that they have
Speaker 1: been living through and will continue to for the rest
Speaker 1: of their lives. By all accounts, based on the condition
Speaker 1: that the physical and medical condition this child is in
Speaker 1: and will likely remain in for the rest of his life,
Speaker 1: to put them in prison for this on top of it,
Speaker 1: for me, that's that's a difficult decision for the DA.
Speaker 2: It is but the DA is supposed to protect the victim,
Speaker 2: and the victim right now and his eyes is his child, yes,
Speaker 2: his or her eyes. I don't know who the prosecutor is,
Speaker 2: but it's just but I mean, is this a lesson
Speaker 2: to other parents or should the lesson be putting the
Speaker 2: parents in jail? Is that the bigger lesson that needs
Speaker 2: to be taught. Every parent has made a mistake. We've
Speaker 2: all every single parent listening can remember a time when
Speaker 2: your child was one to three and you had an
Speaker 2: old shit moment.
Speaker 1: Where's my child? I had it in an a mazy
Speaker 1: score with.
Speaker 2: Ava where there's danger involved. It's just these mistakes happen rolls.
Speaker 2: But when you have a one year old and when
Speaker 2: they're the pool in the back, no, every parent knows
Speaker 2: there is never a time that child should be out
Speaker 2: of your sight.
Speaker 1: And yes, and I think everything it knows you shouldn't
Speaker 1: be probably taking mind altering substances when you're having a
Speaker 1: party and you've got small children and a pool in
Speaker 1: the backyard. Now that so, by the way, the police
Speaker 1: did recommend they make their recommendations to the prosecutor that
Speaker 1: they believe the parents should face felony child abuse charge
Speaker 1: fellny Man felony child abuse charges. That is the recommendation
Speaker 1: by police.
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't get to see the read The
Speaker 2: police report was pretty extensive. I didn't see all of it,
Speaker 2: but they went into mostly robes, not what happened at
Speaker 2: the hospital, but what happened at the home. Yes, so
Speaker 2: the police were look, the police investigation has to do
Speaker 2: with what happened to this child somebody else at the hospital.
Speaker 2: Y'all can deal with neglecting what you want to do
Speaker 2: with your doctor. But in their eyes robes, they have
Speaker 2: a child that has been permanently harmed. Who did it?
Speaker 2: And I could see why they're looking at the parents,
Speaker 2: They're looking at the behavior. What else was happening there
Speaker 2: was their reckless behavior where all the kids just running
Speaker 2: around and not being watched at all. We don't know that,
Speaker 2: but man, it's I'm pretty sure these this family is
Speaker 2: messed up right now. Oh my goodness, to think of
Speaker 2: them being getting hit with felony charges.
Speaker 1: On top of everything else. Now they are also planning,
Speaker 1: they've made this very clear, to pursue legal action against
Speaker 1: doctor Tuccy, against Dignity Health Mercy Gilbert Medical Center. Of course,
Speaker 1: that's the place where he was pronounced dead and was
Speaker 1: placed in the morgue. So they've already made it very
Speaker 1: clear that they are planning to sue both the doctor
Speaker 1: and the hospital involved in this. And that is clearly
Speaker 1: why doctor Tusey has already lawyered up. That makes a
Speaker 1: whole lot of sense here, But there is more to come,
Speaker 1: and we will obviously keep our eye in the situation
Speaker 1: if charges are filed against these parents. But just one
Speaker 1: of those stories is that yes, does have a miracle
Speaker 1: or a miraculous ending in place. But the question is
Speaker 1: was he alive the whole time? Was he how long
Speaker 1: was he gone? There are still a lot of questions
Speaker 1: that need to be answered, and so we'll continue to
Speaker 1: follow this story.
Speaker 2: Oh no, just I'm just thinking about that whole Lazarus
Speaker 2: thing again. They don't have cases where for somebody's heart
Speaker 2: stopped and they came back five hours later. No, they
Speaker 2: don't have those.
Speaker 1: And if there was already unnoticeable pulse and breathing, that
Speaker 1: was it. Yeah, that's that. Matt is scary and what
Speaker 1: could have occurred during those five hours. It could have
Speaker 1: changed the course of his life.
Speaker 2: It's sad, little guy. I know, nobody helping them in
Speaker 2: this cold room. Don't have that helped all.
Speaker 1: I know. I know we will keep our eye on
Speaker 1: this one indeed, But in the meantime, thank you all
Speaker 1: for listening to us. I'm made me roboch alongside you.
Speaker 1: J Holmes, we'll talk to you soon.