1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Haunted Road. If 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: you'd like to meet me in person, I have a 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: ton of fall toward dates coming up. I'll be heading 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: to California, Arizona, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Ohio, to 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: name a few. So get those dates at Amy dash 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Brunei dot net. That's b r U and I dot net. Also, 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: if you want to take a spooky vacation, as always, 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: check out my travel company, Strange Escapes at strange escapes 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: dot com. I often wonder if my Internet search histories 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: have been flagged by some sort of law enforcement, because, 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: let me tell you, it's grizzly. When I'm trying to 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: find the origin of a haunting. I'm all over research websites, 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: entering lovely search terms like murder, execution, suicide, decapitation, serial killer, drowning, fatality, 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: you name it. There has to be a file on 17 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: me somewhere. Whoever is keeping that file if you're listening, 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: it's all in the name of research. Okay, with that, 19 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: I started researching the location we're covering on this episode 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: of Haunted Road, and it took me mere minutes to 21 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: come up with some doozies. We'll learn even more than 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: this later, but here is just a taste of what 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: I was able to come up with in newspaper archives alone. 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: From the Lancaster Intelligencer on May seven, fourteen. Two soldiers 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: were shot at Fort Mifflin near Philadelphia on Thursday last 26 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: for the crime of desertion. It is well to notice 27 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: such instances, for it sometimes becomes necessary that lenity should 28 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: give place to law as a warning to deter others 29 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: from like aggravated offense. Says from the Lancaster Intelligencer on 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: November twenty, eighteen nineteen, Captain Robinson, on board of a 31 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: sloop from this place, which was a ground near Red 32 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: Bank opposite Fort Mifflin, on Sunday last, distinctly saw a 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: duel fought on the shore near him by persons who 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: he had seen cross in boats from the fort. At 35 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: the first fire, one of the parties fell and was 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: conveyed across the river, mortally wounded. As far as the 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: captain could judge from appearance, probably the parties were officers 38 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: and the victim, no doubt, has not only thrown away 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: his own life, but may have willfully added to the 40 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: list of widows and orphans, and carried mourning and distress 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: into many families of relatives, and severe regret to many 42 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: more friends. The Daily Record, January twenty third, nineteen thirteen. 43 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: The body of a man found floating in the Delaware 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: Bay near here is supposed to be that of Freeman Munsey, 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: who lived at And Street, Philadelphia. Muncy left his home 46 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: November seventeenth to go down to Fort Miffle in a launch. 47 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: He fell overboard while taking a snapshot of a passing boat. 48 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: The Pittston Gazette, September one, eighteen sixty four. W. M. How, 49 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: charged with desertion and murder, was executed yesterday at Fort Mifflin. 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: And these are just the tip of the iceberg. So 51 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: if I have your morbid interest, Pete, and you're ready 52 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: to hear about one of the most haunted forts I 53 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: have ever visited, and I've visited many, let's sit back 54 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: and take a little trip to Fort Mifflin in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 55 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Bruney, and this is haunted Road Fort Mifflin 56 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is so historic that it even predates 57 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War. By day, it's a grassy oasis surrounded 58 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: by water in the middle of the city, offering tours 59 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: of America's oldest active military fort, complete with historical re 60 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: enactments and weapons demonstrations. But at night things change. The 61 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: stone walls of the fort echo with disembodied screams, faceless 62 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: entities lurk, and darkened corners. A ghostly lamplighter roams the 63 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: corridors his torch, seeking out candles that burned out over 64 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: two hundred years ago. Violent apparitions throw rocks in areas 65 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: that once housed the most reviled prisoners in the fort, 66 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: and in the cemetery along gone headstone that once read 67 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: stop reader drop A friendly tier for youth and innocence 68 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: lie here. With its history of intense battles and of 69 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: contentious executions, it's no wonder. Fort Mifflin claims to be 70 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: one of the most haunted places in America. In seventeen 71 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: seventy two, British soldiers began construction on a fort surrounded 72 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: by a moat on the west bank of the Delaware River, 73 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: near its confluence with the Schookle, originally called Mud Island 74 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: Fort for its location on what was known as Mud Island. 75 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: The structure was prized for its location at the confluence 76 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: of two major rivers. Even the peaceful Quaker William Penn 77 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: observed that the spot provided ideal anchorage for the British 78 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: warships that would protect Philadelphia, his planned city of brotherly Love. 79 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: As Jeffrey Dorward explained in his book Fort Mifflin of 80 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Illustrated History, Doorwart called Fort Mifflin a low 81 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: lying earth in stone fortification arranged in an irregular star 82 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: shaped design. Star shaped forts were popular in Europe starting 83 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: in the fifteen hundreds and appeared in early American forts 84 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: like the Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine, Florida, 85 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, and Fort Ticonderoga and Upstate 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: New York. Though Fort Mifflin has additions built in the eighteenth, nineteenth, 87 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: and twentieth centuries, it has largely been restored to how 88 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: it would have looked in eighteen thirty four. There are 89 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: fourteen restored buildings on the property. The fort off as 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: daily weapons demonstrations, and those fourteen authentic Restored buildings include casemates, 91 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: which are the areas from which guns and cannons were fired, 92 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: the northeast bastion, the arsenal soldiers barracks, officers quarters, and 93 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: a blacksmith shop. While there is still a cemetery area 94 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: on property, the graves have been moved off site. Author 95 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: Jim Cheney wrote that the fort is still technically an 96 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: active base for the United States Army Corps of Engineers, 97 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: who have a modern day base located next door. This 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: makes the fort the oldest active military base in the 99 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: US and the only base on American soil to predate 100 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence. Though construction on Fort Mifflin was 101 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: started in seventeen seventy two by British soldiers, they eventually 102 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: abandoned the effort. Fort Mifflin's original purpose was to defend 103 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: against foreign enemies, but by seventeen seventy three, funding for 104 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: construction had dried up and dissent from American colonists was 105 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: a bigger concern than foreign attacks. When the Colony of 106 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania resumed construction in seventeen seventy five, it was to 107 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: build a fort to defend Philadelphia against British forces. In 108 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy seven, the British attacked the Revolutionary troops garrisoned 109 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: at the fort, pommeling its walls with more than ten 110 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: thousand cannonballs, making it the greatest bombardment of the American Revolution. 111 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: One soldier who fought in the battle, Private Joseph Martin, 112 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: wrote of his experience here, I endured hardships sufficient to 113 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: kill half a dozen horses. I saw men who were 114 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: stooping to be protected by the works, but not stooping 115 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: low enough, split like fish to be broiled. Our men 116 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: were cut up like cornstalks. After five and tense days, 117 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: the Continental Army had no choice but to retreat, fleeing 118 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: the fort on November fifteenth, seventeen seventy seven. Though the 119 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: soldiers never officially surrendered, and counterintuitively, their fight was a 120 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: pivotal moment in the American success in the war. Renee 121 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: Gordon wrote in The Philadelphia's and Day's Son. As a 122 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: result of the valiant defense to British ships were destroyed, 123 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: the supply line was disrupted, and Washington's army was given 124 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: time to move to Valley Forge to reassemble. Because of 125 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: this valuable time bought by the bombardment. Fort Mifflin is 126 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: sometimes called the Fort that Saved America. During the War 127 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: of eighteen twelve, a soldier was executed for his third 128 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: offense of desertion, but Fort Mifflin didn't see any significant 129 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: action until the Civil War, when it was used as 130 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: a prison. In August eighteen sixty four, Private William Howe, 131 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: who we spoke of earlier, a Union soldier, was executed there, 132 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: and his death became something of a public spectacle. Though 133 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: he had been a distinguished veteran of the Battle of Fredericksburg, 134 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: how left his post to seek medical treatment, likely for 135 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: a case of chronic diarrhea. Once he had escaped and 136 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: returned to his home and family, an officer came to 137 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: arrest him for desertion, at which time how shot and 138 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: killed the man. Abraham Lincoln himself approved the death sentence, 139 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: possibly to show other deserters that he meant business. While 140 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: awaiting execution, how tried to escape by tunneling out of 141 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: the fort, but he was discovered. Tickets were sold to 142 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: his hanging, and according to the Baltimore Sun, the execution 143 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: was witnessed by a very large number of persons, given 144 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: that he fought so hard to escape, and that his 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: death was such a scene. It's not all that's surprising 146 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: that house ghosts is one of the most frequently reported 147 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: in the fort. Visitors claim to see a man in 148 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: Civil War garb roaming the ground, sometimes sitting quietly and 149 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: sewing in one of the casemates. They believe it's how 150 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: because before he was hanged, he had a bag placed 151 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: over his face, and when the apparition looks up from 152 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: his sewing, he doesn't have a face. Witnesses refer to 153 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: house ghosts as the faceless Man. But he's not the 154 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: only supernatural resident of Fort Mifflin, which describes itself as 155 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: widely regarded as one of the most haunted sites in 156 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: the country. People often report seeing an apparition known as 157 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: the Lamplighter, who appears on the second floor balcony of 158 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the barracks. According to Ghosts of the Revolutionary War, the 159 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: Lamplighter is said to be a man with black hair 160 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: and a white puffy shirt who drifts through the soldiers 161 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: barracks carrying a long pole with a dim candle at 162 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: the end to light lamps that disappeared some two hundred 163 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: years ago. This ghost has been seen in the fort 164 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: since the early nineteen hundreds, before it was declared a 165 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: National Historic Monument in nineteen fifteen, and before it was 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: retired as a military post in nineteen fifty four. A 167 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: shadowy figure known as the Blacksmith has been seen many 168 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: times by visitors and employees in the blacksmith shop, although 169 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: there is no historical evidence to back up this claim. 170 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: The ghost is said to be a man named Jacob Sawyer, 171 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: who had a long standing argument with the fort's commander 172 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: about keeping the back door of the blacksmith shop open, 173 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: which was against regulations. Darcy Ort wrote in Haunted Philadelphia 174 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: that staff would constantly find the door open, even if 175 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: they had locked it. The constant opening and closing caused 176 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: the hinges to deteriorate until Jacob got his way the 177 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: door was permanently removed. Or describes claims of a spirit 178 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: opening and closing the doors in the blacksmith shop, swinging 179 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: tools hanging on the wall, and moving objects around in 180 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: the space. People also report the phantom sound of a 181 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: hammer and anvil in the empty shop. One of Fort 182 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: Mifflin's many haunts isn't seen, but heard. The sounds that 183 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: come from what's commonly referred to as the Screaming Lady, 184 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: whose screams are so loud and so life like that 185 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: both visitors and staff have called the police on many occasions, 186 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: thinking someone was in serious danger. The screams are said 187 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: to come from the spirit of Elizabeth Pratt, an eighteenth 188 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 1: century woman who once lived at the fort. A cemetery 189 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: once stood just outside the northern gate of the fort. 190 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: Although the graves were moved in the late eighteen hundreds, 191 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: one of those graves bore the name of Elizabeth Pratt, 192 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: identifying those buried underneath. According to the Philadelphia Time, as 193 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: the consort of Sergeant Sylvana's Pratt, aged twenty three years 194 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: in eighteen days, who died the eleventh of February eighteen 195 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: oh three, also her daughter and infant son, both of 196 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: whom died the year before. The legend written beneath this inscription, 197 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: stop reader, drop a friendly tear for youth and innocence 198 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: lie here. The three allegedly died of fever. It's sometimes 199 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: said that a figure of a woman seen peering out 200 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: a second story window in the officers quarters, usually by children, 201 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: could be Elizabeth, still looking for her children after all 202 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: these years. Some believe the whales come from Pratt grieving 203 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: her lost children, but there have been accounts of disembodied 204 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: female screams as far back as seventeen seventy eight, according 205 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: to Haunted Philadelphia that people attributed to women mourning the 206 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: men who died during the British attack on the fort. Now, 207 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: before we dig too deep into the hauntings, let's bring 208 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: someone on who is very knowledgeable about everything going on 209 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: at Fort Mifflin. Up next, we'll be speaking with Greg O'Brien. 210 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: Greg is a paranormal host and tour guide at Fort Mifflin, 211 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: and he's been there for many, many years and has 212 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: some amazing stories to share with us about the ghosts 213 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: in history there. That is coming up after the break. 214 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: All Right, I am sitting here with Mr Greg O'Brien, 215 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: who is the official paranormal host at Fort Mifflin, And 216 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: it turns out we go way back. We've met a 217 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: number of times at a number of different haunted locations, right, Greg, Yes, 218 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: go back years. It's funny. I have been to Fort 219 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: Mifflin a handful of times. I can't remember if I 220 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: ever filmed there. I don't think I did. I've been 221 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: there for events and for private investigations. And what I 222 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: remember most about Fort Mifflin, besides it being amazingly historic 223 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: and area haunted, is the airplanes and the mosquitoes that 224 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: are as large as airplanes. Correct, Yes they July at August. 225 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: Recommend don't be there at night. Yeah, or have a 226 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: healthy dose of bucks. I think Josh Gates and I 227 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: were in one of the I can't remember where we 228 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: were stationed. It was in one of the one of 229 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: those called the case. I think you guys are in 230 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: case mate five. Yeah, we were in case mate five. 231 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: Inside thought we were safe. No, we emerged with dozens 232 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: of mosquito bites that night. So but it was well 233 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: worth it. A lot happens at Fort Mifflin. It's a 234 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: very well known haunt for people who ever fly into Philadelphia. 235 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: You can see Fort Mifflin on the approach many times, 236 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: so I always look for it when I'm landing, which 237 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: also makes it an interesting place to investigate because you 238 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: are fighting the sound of planes constantly. And I also 239 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: heard stories about filming there. But I always tell people 240 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: if you can't figure out the difference between the way 241 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: ghost sounds and an airplane sounds, you might be in 242 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: the wrong business, correct, And that's a good way to 243 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: teach people to tag their audio. Yeah, And it's surprising 244 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: because when you investigate and you do get a sound 245 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: of like maybe a truck in the distance or even 246 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: an airplane, the way it presents on your recorder sounds 247 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: infinitely different than you would expect. Sometimes it sounds like 248 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: a growl. Sometimes it sounds like a voice, just because 249 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: it's not directly in front of the microphone. So it 250 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: is really important, like you were saying, to tag it 251 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: because you're not going to remember every time a airplane 252 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: went through, right, And they do slow down after midnight. 253 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: Plus once you're in the case mates and stuff, and 254 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: you're you know, six ft of dirt over top of you, 255 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: they're not so bad, right right, Well, that's helpful. So 256 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: that being said, let's talk about some of the hauntings there, 257 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: because there are many, and you know, I know that 258 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot to be seen and heard there, and 259 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: I also know it kind of seems like it changes 260 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: depending on when you're investigating. So what would you say 261 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: is the most prevalent haunts encountered at Fort Mifflin. Well, 262 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: we do have a revolutionary tour guide ghost. He comes 263 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: out and does tours. We're open Wednesdays through Sundays, and 264 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: during the week if there's we don't usually get school 265 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: groups or whatnot, but there's times when there's it's pretty 266 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: dead Wednesday or Thursday, and you might have one or 267 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: two people there at the fort, and they come out 268 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: of the fort and they start raving about this tour 269 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: guide and we asked him to describe the store guide, 270 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: and they describe in the Revolutionary War uniform, and he 271 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: goes into explicit details of the bombardment of the fort. 272 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: And then when we tell them there is no tour 273 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: guides during the week, only on the weekends and you 274 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: are the only one here, that pretty much freaks them out. 275 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: He's been reported numerous numerous times. So that's a nice, 276 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: good example of an intelligent haunting. This guy just loves 277 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: to talk about the bombardment. So you're saying that tour groups, 278 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: school groups, they'll come in middle of the day, take 279 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: a tour, and this mysterious tour guide dressed in Revolutionary 280 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: War garb, tells them the whole story and looks completely 281 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: alive like you and me, But he's a ghost. He's 282 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: a ghost and it's usually over in the powder magazine. Yeah, people, 283 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, they've gone in there and then they've looked 284 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: and he's standing by the door. I've seen a Revolutionary 285 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: War soldier, but I've always been wanting him to give 286 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: me a tour, and I haven't gotten a tour from 287 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: him yet. That's wild. I mean, this actually comes up 288 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: a lot on the podcast. The more I talked to 289 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: and just in general investigating how many times a spirit 290 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: looks just like a living person and it makes you wonder, like, 291 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: how many times have we encountered a ghost and maybe 292 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: even fully interacted with them and had no idea? Correct? 293 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: You just don't know. Do you think this is actually 294 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: a ghost from a Revolutionary War period, or do you 295 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: think this might be the ghost of some sort of 296 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: reenactor who just really holds the fort dear to his heart. 297 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: I really think it's a ghost from the revolution because 298 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: the explicit details that he goes into, it's like, wow, 299 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: you know that stuff that he really didn't know. I 300 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: have a theory. When the Fort seventeen seventy seven, during 301 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: the bombardment, there were deserters, and for whatever reason, when 302 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: Washington retook Philadelphia, these deserters were still in Philadelphia and 303 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: they got caught and there was a massive hanging of 304 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: eleven of these deserters on Market Street. It was a 305 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: public hanging in Philadelphia. So my theory is, I'm thinking, 306 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, there's sentenced for eternity to since they have 307 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: deserted the fort, is to be back at the fort 308 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: to defend it, to spend their eternity there. So that's 309 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: how what I think. Yeah, I mean, sort of like 310 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: a self imposed sentence, like they're kind of carrying over 311 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: that guilt for what they did. That's a theory I've 312 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: held to for sometimes for even like prisons and things. 313 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: People always ask me like why would someone stay there? 314 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: And that's one explanation. I'm not sure if that's the case, 315 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: but it's just you know, when you try to kind 316 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: of justify it, it does make sense per se. Okay, 317 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: So that's a really interesting spirit that people could encounter 318 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: any time of day. What else do you think people 319 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: could encounter if they visit the fort. Well, let's to 320 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: say we have full bodies, shadow figures, noise banging, we 321 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: have our candlelight ghost walks in October, and where we 322 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: have the fort just lit up with lanterns and candles, 323 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: and we walk around which is landerns And during these 324 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: tours a lot of experiences happened. One year, I had 325 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: a group and we're coming in. I had a couple 326 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: of young young boys with me. Since it was a 327 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: military fort, there were families there, so you had women 328 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: and children they did die at the fort. And walk 329 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: in and there's two children that I've seen quite a 330 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: bit and their stories to be seen, and I think 331 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: their brother and sister. It's a little boy and a girl. 332 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: And as we walk in, I could see him running around, 333 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: but I didn't say anything. And we stood in front 334 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: of the bunk room. The enlist him in the office 335 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: there and I'm talking and then I asked, anybody have 336 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: any questions. Feel free to ask a question. There's no 337 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: stupid question except if you want to know way to 338 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: build the fort so close to the airport. Um, we 339 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: get asked that all the time. So, oh no, yeah, 340 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: like I have news for you. Yep. So this is 341 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: one little boy raises his hand and he said, did 342 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: any children die here at the fort? And I said, yes, 343 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: it's documented. We had children die here at the ford. 344 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: And we're right on the Delaware there's documentations of children 345 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: that drowned and washing up on the shores, and I 346 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: knew what the answer was going to be able to. 347 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, why are you asking that? 348 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: And he said, well, when we walked in, we saw 349 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: these two little children running around playing, and I said, well, 350 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: welcome to Fort Mifflin. You've experienced your first sighting of 351 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: a ghost. Wow. I mean those seem like very strong 352 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: spirits for them to look so alive, like, that's wild 353 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: to me. And then I know that a big thing 354 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: people see, and I experienced from the casemate. Our shadow 355 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: figures are seeing very regularly, and I mean, I would 356 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: say it's almost a guarantee that if you if you 357 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: go there to investigate at night, you're going to encounter 358 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: some sort of shadow figure. Has that been your experience 359 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: as well? Oh? Yes, there they dart all over the place. 360 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: The last big event there with the TAPS group, after 361 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: everybody left, I was just standing there with the event 362 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: organizer and assistant and another friend of mine. We were 363 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: just standing there and we were standing right in front 364 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: of the officers quarters and we're looking out over and 365 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we see this figure going across 366 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: from like the armory going walking across and we're like, 367 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: what the heck, So all of us go running over there, 368 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: and this figure ran over towards Case May eleven and 369 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: just disappeared. So we searched the whole for it again. 370 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, we were the only ones there. So you 371 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: see them quite regularly. Yeah, and it's not really an 372 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: area that people are just going to kind of stumble into. Yes, 373 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: it's by the airport, but it is really set back 374 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: away from everything. It's not in like a populated area 375 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And it's a fort. It's meant 376 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: to keep people away. So and now have you ever 377 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: like felt personally afraid or like something there would ever 378 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: harm you in any way? Ah, years ago I used 379 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: to go a lot, you know, investigate, and then I volunteered, 380 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: and I just felt uneasy in Case May go walking 381 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: past the case by two, three, and four they're just 382 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: smaller ones yet one at the beginning the big one 383 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: and where the Confederate prisoners were, and in five is 384 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: it over we at the end where the Union prisoners, 385 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: and then there's three smallents. I just felt uneasy and 386 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: those three and then also the powder magazine. I could 387 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: not go in by myself at night for years just 388 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: didn't feel good. So eventually I forced myself to go 389 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: in there, and I said, in there, with my back 390 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: against the back wall, had my recorder going, I heard banging, 391 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: like a metal banging on the wall coming towards me, 392 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: and I just sat there like frozen. And then when 393 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: I got out of there, when I played the Greek quarterback, 394 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 1: it was like somebody was standing right on top of 395 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: me yelling get out, get out. I mean it was 396 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: like it was like it was screaming. So but eventually 397 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: that was it. I got my fear. So I mean 398 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: that's a pretty clear message. I always say that the 399 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: two e v P that we get the most often 400 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: it's either get out or help me, two very different messages, 401 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: but those are really the two, like top the top 402 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: e vps we get. So case made eleven. Is that 403 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: the one that was uncovered later, Yes, that's the one 404 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: where Grant has has experienced there. Yes, Oh that's right, 405 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: And so I think I remember them sending Chris Williams 406 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: down there by herself as well. So just a little background, 407 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: I joined the team right around when they went and 408 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: did this investigation, but I lived in California at the time, 409 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: and so I was not flying to the East Coast yet, 410 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: but Chris Williams and I were really close are still 411 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: very close anyways. I just remember her like telling me, 412 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: you're not going to believe what they made me do. 413 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: They made me climb down in this case, made all 414 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: by myself. And first time she went down truly alone 415 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: and brought like a handheld camera, and then I think 416 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: that they wanted to get some better shots of her, 417 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: so she went down again with a camera operator. And 418 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: that was something that she always had to defend at 419 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: paranormal events and things because people would say, you know, 420 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: you weren't really down there by yourself, you had a 421 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: camera operator, and she had to explain, like the magic 422 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: of TV, that she did truly go down there by herself. 423 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: But then they did send a camera operator down later 424 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: to just get some additional shots of her down there, 425 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: but she definitely went down there alone. People get very 426 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: uncomfortable down there. They just don't feel right down there, 427 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: because that was solitary confinement when it was first open up, 428 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: when Chris and went down there and he had to 429 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: go down the ladder, but it's been excavated, so there 430 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: is stairs to go down it, but still it's underground. 431 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: It's a hole in the ground and it's very tight 432 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: and people get very uneasy in there. I had a 433 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: family to come out to do an investigation, and that 434 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: was the husband and wife and the two teenage sons 435 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: came out. That night was just nuts off the charts. 436 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: And when we were in Case Made eleven. Now there's 437 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: two little rooms in Case Made eleven, two separate cells, 438 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: and so I was in the back cell with the 439 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: wife and one song, and then the other cell it 440 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: was the husband, uh and the other song. We're in 441 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: there doing some a VPS and it's pitch black. You 442 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: can't see the hand in front of your face. And 443 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: so we're in there and all of a sudden, this 444 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: big bam right next to me and they're like, what 445 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: was that? And I said, well, I think somebody was 446 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: thrown at me. So we put the flashlight and it 447 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: was a piece of brick that was right next to me. 448 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: So that was the only time I had something thrown 449 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: at me. I just think they were trying to get 450 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: my attention because it didn't hit me, it hit the wall. 451 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: It was really loud, so that made their night. They 452 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: became believers at night. Yeah, I don't think I even 453 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: went down there. I'm not afraid of ghosts, but I 454 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: am hugely claustrophobic, and I do not like being underground, 455 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: Like I am kind of anxiety ridden the whole time. 456 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: So I remember, I might have. If I remember if 457 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: I went down there, I've blocked it out mentally. I 458 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: don't think I did. Yeah, I don't think you did. 459 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: So at that point, you're in the casemate and you 460 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: have something thrown at you, which is very different from 461 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: just kind of seeing having someone explain the history, and 462 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: by someone I mean a spirit or seeing children playing. 463 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: Have there ever been any other incidents of kind of 464 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: aggressive type behavior, maybe towards people going there or toward investigators. 465 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: We've had stuff move. The most aggressive that I know 466 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: of it was again during a Candlelight ghost tour and 467 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: we're coming out of the casemates and then as we're 468 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: walking out, there was a gentleman with his girlfriend and 469 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: he went up a little bit and hidden like casemate too, 470 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: and as we walked by within the girlfriend he jumped 471 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: out and scared the basis out of her. She freaked 472 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: out and she was cursing him. And yelling at him, 473 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: and he was laughing. So he started walking next to me, 474 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: and she's all the way in the back of the group, 475 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 1: just still. She was she didn't want to be anywhere 476 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: near him. She was just really upset, and all of 477 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: us on. He goes flying forward and hits the ground. 478 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: Something pushed him down to the ground, and he got 479 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 1: up and he started yelling at her, why are you 480 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: doing that? I was joking everything, and She's like, I'm 481 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: not even anywhere near you. I'm all the way back here. 482 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: I said, well, I guess the spirit he pissed the 483 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: spirits awful little bit upset of your girlfriend. So that 484 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: was That's really the most aggressive that I've experienced. You know, 485 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: I had the stone being thrown. Of course, we tell 486 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: people know provoking there, you know, respect the dead. There's 487 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: nothing negative, nothing demonic there. You know, you can have 488 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: some pistolf spirits. Specifically, when it was a military prison 489 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: in Civil War, you had civilians that were locked up 490 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: in there. These were just regular folks that were thrown 491 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: in prison by Lincoln. Conditions were just horrific, so you 492 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: had those deaths. We have a spirit that identifies himself 493 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: as to judge him and I have like a love 494 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: hate relationship. It's Greg, F you or f you. Greg. 495 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: That's how he greets me. He's just a very scrunled individual. 496 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: There was a judge that was sentenced to Fort Mifflin. 497 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: He was a major in the Pennsylvania Milityship with Jacob Wilhelm, 498 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: and he was a sitting associate judge of the Court 499 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: of Common Please of Clearfield County in Pennsylvania, and he 500 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: opposed war. And at that point in the eighteen sixty 501 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: three sixty four time frame, if you opposed the war, 502 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: you post Lincoln a rounded you up and three your 503 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: military prisons, something that a lot of people don't know of, 504 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: and tens of thousands of citizens were locked up throughout 505 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: the country. And so judge she was a judge Jacob Wilhelm. Yeah, 506 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: I mean that that makes sense, even though that that 507 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: spirit isn't necessarily like violent, they're angry. You can kind 508 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: of encounter the whole gamut there, from spirits that are 509 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: completely fine and kind to some that are clearly in turmoil. 510 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: And you're right, that's kind of the perfect example as 511 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: to why you don't want to assume you know who 512 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: you're talking to when you're investigating or be you know, 513 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: treat them disrespectfully because you don't know their story at all. Yeah, 514 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: and on his grave it's and now despoiled. He lives 515 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: like wind swept leafless. Those a noble phantom shade of 516 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: what has been, and that was put on his tombstone. 517 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: So noble, noble phantom. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you 518 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: kind of giving us a little bit of insight into 519 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: the hauntings at Fort Mifflin, and I hope people will 520 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: go visit. If people want to visit the fort or 521 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: investigate the fort, or do any ghost tours or anything, 522 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: what do they need to do? Well, our website is 523 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: Fort Mifflin dot us. You go to the website and 524 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: we have an event pulled down. You can go and 525 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: all the events that happened at the fort. We do reenactments, 526 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: we have a jazz festival there, We have all kinds 527 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: of different activities there there. And then there's a programs 528 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: page and that's where the paranormal is and you can 529 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: go there and the information of what you need to 530 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: do is all right there. That's great. It's really wonderful 531 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: that they've kind of embraced that side of the fort too, 532 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: because a lot of these historic locations that are, you know, 533 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: government owned, they kind of steer away from it. But 534 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: I think it is a just valuable for the public 535 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of fun, especially to get 536 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: younger people involved in history and then be it's a 537 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: great revenue source for some of these really important locations. 538 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: Whether you believe in ghosts or not, I think it's 539 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: doing a lot of good. And you've been involved for 540 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: so long, so good for you. It's really great that 541 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: you've been so closely involved with the fort this long. Yeah, 542 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. You know how it is, you can 543 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: some places just pull you towards them, and the fort 544 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: is somewhere place that just pulled me in and I'm there, 545 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, we appreciate people coming out. It's forty total 546 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: lacres here. We have nature trail. There's more of the 547 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: fort outside about a quarter mile down. I know you've 548 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: never been down there. It's it was built in late 549 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies. There's gun batteries down along the river, there's 550 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: case mates down there, so there's a lot of you 551 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: can come out just wonder around. You don't have to 552 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: worry about ghost spirits. You know the history walk to 553 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, we have dear fox, we have all kinds 554 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: of wildlife. Even though we're right by the airport, right 555 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: on the Delaware River. You can sit and watch the 556 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: boats go by you. You can look overhead and watch 557 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: the airplane. So there's lots to do. Well. I love that. 558 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: It sounds like a wonderful day. So I clearly need 559 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: to get back soon because I did not get to 560 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: experience all that, so I'm putting it on the schedule. 561 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, we need you guys back. I 562 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: like to have you back, Chris, I'd like to get back. 563 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: Get her down in case matal leven she would love that. Well, 564 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really appreciate it, and hopefully 565 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: we will chat again very soon. One of the things 566 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: I love about Fort Mifflin is that it's a government 567 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: run site that does not at all shy away from 568 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: its ghostly history. The fact that paranormal reports have been 569 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: going on there since the late seventeen hundreds probably helps 570 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: a great deal because you can't hide that. It's also 571 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: a location where activities seems to happen day or night, 572 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: whether you're looking for it or not. This is why. 573 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: If you happen to be in the City of Brotherly 574 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: Love and are looking for something new and different to do, 575 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: I highly recommend a moment at the Fort. It's so 576 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: close to the airport. It's also a wonderful place to 577 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: stop on your way out of town. Tell them I 578 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: sent you, and also let them know I'd really like 579 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: to come back and investigate soon. PS. Good luck if 580 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: you see the faceless man. I literally watched a seasoned 581 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: investigator run out of the place after witnessing that for himself. 582 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and 583 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Haunted Road is hosted 584 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: and written by me Amy Bruney, additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. 585 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by rema El Kali 586 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: and supervising producer Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Mankey, 587 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I 588 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 589 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.