Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woke f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: I am taking a bit of a respite, but as always,
Speaker 1: I leave you with some of my conversations with the
Speaker 1: brightest Minds that we pre taped to deliver to you
Speaker 1: this week. And coming up is my conversation with one
Speaker 1: of my favorites and I know one of yours as well, Ellie,
Speaker 1: Miss Stall, and Ellie and I get into a conversation
Speaker 1: all about Trump and his legal woes. As we recorded this,
Speaker 1: we were still on indictment watch, but breaking news had
Speaker 1: happened that a third defendant was in fact indicted alongside
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and will Noda. And so when I get
Speaker 1: into this conversation with Ellie, we're talking about the mountain
Speaker 1: of evidence in front of us. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: three cases, the Document's case, the insurrection case, and Fannie
Speaker 1: Willis's you know, can you find me eleven hundred and
Speaker 1: seven hundred and forty one votes case. So we are
Speaker 1: going through all of that, and then we touch a
Speaker 1: bit upon, you know, one of our favorite artists, at
Speaker 1: least a favorite artist. When I was growing up and
Speaker 1: how he has apparently just pad a lobotomy, and so
Speaker 1: we get into some pop culture as well. I hope
Speaker 1: that you enjoy this conversation with one of wok f's faves,
Speaker 1: Ellie Mistell Folks, I am so excited to welcome back
Speaker 1: to wok F after just too long of a time away,
Speaker 1: which is our friend Ellie Missel, who is a justice
Speaker 1: correspondent for the Nation and the author of Allow Me
Speaker 1: to Retort, A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution and
Speaker 1: just all around. I don't know what the fuck we
Speaker 1: call Twitter these days.
Speaker 2: Is it X?
Speaker 3: Is it? You know?
Speaker 2: Trash?
Speaker 1: It is trash, but you you make it a place
Speaker 1: still worth going.
Speaker 2: I will say that, Ellie.
Speaker 3: Oh, don't put that. Don't you put that evil on me.
Speaker 2: Let me not put that X on you by that.
Speaker 1: So Ellie, you know I want to talk to you
Speaker 1: because I just there are times when I wish that
Speaker 1: I had not listened to the old white male professor
Speaker 1: who told me it wasn't smart enough to go to
Speaker 1: law school, and that I actually went. And it is
Speaker 1: times when I'm trying to understand how much legal trouble
Speaker 1: a normal person whose name was in Trump would be
Speaker 1: in if they had all of these indictments that have
Speaker 1: already come out, and one big one still that is looming,
Speaker 1: actually two big ones that are looming if you're also
Speaker 1: looking at the state of Georgia. But walk us through,
Speaker 1: because it's potential, the potential of Donald Trump being indicted
Speaker 1: for a third time while people are listening to this
Speaker 1: is very high. So please walk us through where we
Speaker 1: are in the insurrection case so as not to get
Speaker 1: people confused with the other indictments that the former twice
Speaker 1: impeach president has.
Speaker 4: Yes, any look, a normal person would be in jail
Speaker 4: like eight times over by this point. A normal person's
Speaker 4: children would probably be in jail at least twice over
Speaker 4: by this point. The normal rules simply don't apply to Trump.
Speaker 4: The White rules does do. And that's kind of how
Speaker 4: where we start with. Right, this indictment that's coming from
Speaker 4: Jack Smith, potentially already out from Jack Smith, coming at
Speaker 4: the time that we're recording. To me, this is the
Speaker 4: big one. This is the one that we should have
Speaker 4: been working towards. Since January seventh, twenty twenty one. Now,
Speaker 4: there has been reporting about how Merreck Carlin has slow
Speaker 4: walked the investigation and basically kind of did everything he
Speaker 4: could to get Trump off the hook. But finally he
Speaker 4: appointed Jack Smith. I've said on other shows Danielle that
Speaker 4: I think I was wrong about Jack Smith. I thought
Speaker 4: he would be kind of another Robert Muller type, and
Speaker 4: he has not been. Now, No, he has not an
Speaker 4: actual fucking prosecutor, and he has been putting the wood
Speaker 4: to Trump, not just in the espionage case, but now
Speaker 4: finally on the January sixth case. We already know that
Speaker 4: he has interviewed. Basically, he is finally done the work
Speaker 4: that Garland should have been doing and that the January
Speaker 4: sixth Select Committee in Congress already did. Right, He's finally
Speaker 4: done the interviews with the Cassidy Hutchinson's and the Mark
Speaker 4: Meadows and the Steve Bannons. He's gotten all of that
Speaker 4: information in and he's prepared to charge Trump with a
Speaker 4: number of of crimes right the The the biggest ticket
Speaker 4: would be kind of conspiracy to deprive rights through the
Speaker 4: color of law. That's basically the trying to intimidate and
Speaker 4: potentially assassinate Mike Pence charge, Like that's that's what that is.
Speaker 3: He's going to be charged uh. We believe with.
Speaker 4: Obstruction and and and and the fake electors scheme as well.
Speaker 3: And the these.
Speaker 4: Are the serious ones, not just serious in terms of
Speaker 4: like legal uh uh jeopardy, but serious in terms of
Speaker 4: actually holding the man countable for the coup he tried
Speaker 4: to pull.
Speaker 3: Off against the government.
Speaker 4: Like that needs to happen, and it looks like that
Speaker 4: that is finally going to happen.
Speaker 3: The problem, Danielle, is that.
Speaker 2: Because there always is one lle rce.
Speaker 3: It's never just good news.
Speaker 4: The problem is that that accountability, that trial over these
Speaker 4: charges will most likely happen in twenty twenty five, and
Speaker 4: will only be allowed to happen if Trump loses again
Speaker 4: another presidential election, where he will again try to steal
Speaker 4: it and potentially again try to do another coup. Right,
Speaker 4: Like this is all because of the timeline, because of
Speaker 4: Merrick Garland's slow walking to get us to this point.
Speaker 4: We are now in a situation where it's just very
Speaker 4: unlikely that any of these trials are going to happen
Speaker 4: before the election. And that's not and there's almost nothing
Speaker 4: we can do about that. Like the timeline is timeline,
Speaker 4: and so Trump will get to run again.
Speaker 2: But but but let me ask let me ask this.
Speaker 3: I want to say why.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to say I will say why.
Speaker 1: But so you have first in the document's case, ailing
Speaker 1: Cannon has set the date from May twenty fourth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, right, yep, And so that is several months
Speaker 1: prior to the election. Why is it that? And then
Speaker 1: Donald Trump prior to that? I believe that Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: it has the another Egen Carroll case that I believe
Speaker 1: is happening in October. Why wouldn't this case, which is
Speaker 1: going to be heard in Washington, DC, because it has
Speaker 1: such a long runway given Aileen Cannon's timeline, and there
Speaker 1: is no need for security clearance in the way that
Speaker 1: the documents case requires security clearance, why wouldn't that be
Speaker 1: set for the end of the year or January?
Speaker 4: Because trials take a long time. I mean, it's just
Speaker 4: like there, it is. It is just true that trials,
Speaker 4: especially trials of rich white people, take a long time
Speaker 4: to process through the system, and the defense lawyers remember,
Speaker 4: like a lot of times, here's here's the thing that
Speaker 4: listeners have to think about a lot of times when
Speaker 4: they hear about court cases or trials from television news
Speaker 4: or even most print media. They're hearing about it from
Speaker 4: the perspective of a prosecutor, right, and the prosecutors are
Speaker 4: always like, go now, go now, we can do this now.
Speaker 4: And when they are when the prosecutors are facing criminal
Speaker 4: defendants who are underfunded, underprivileged, black Latino, the system is
Speaker 4: very happy to go as quickly as humanly possible to
Speaker 4: get a black and brown people in jail. But when
Speaker 4: it happens to white people, the defense attorneys have usually
Speaker 4: legitimate reasons and arguments to delay trial.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: One of the biggest ones is that the defense lawyers
Speaker 4: need time to go over all of the evidence that
Speaker 4: the government has and prepare an adequate defense.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: So in these cases I always argue kind of in
Speaker 4: favor of the defense because I realized that more often
Speaker 4: than not, what I'm doing is arguing on behalf of
Speaker 4: black and Latino people who are being railroaded through the system. Right,
Speaker 4: So I understand. I guess the need for defense attorneys
Speaker 4: to have time to prepare their cases is Trump getting
Speaker 4: more time than normal. It depends on what you think
Speaker 4: normal is.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: If you think normal is what we do to black people,
Speaker 4: then hell yeah, he's getting way more time. Is he
Speaker 4: getting more time than he should? The brass tax of
Speaker 4: it is, if you look at the espionage case, at
Speaker 4: least given when Smith was allowed to make these charges,
Speaker 4: I think May twenty fourth is about the right date.
Speaker 4: I think that's about the right time. Now the question is,
Speaker 4: and I think that that this is the bigger problem.
Speaker 4: It's unlike May twenty fourth is unlikely to hold up,
Speaker 4: you know, so May twentieth, twenty twenty four is unlikely
Speaker 4: to hold up because as we get closer to May twentieth,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, Trump's lawyers will again ask for a delay.
Speaker 4: They will say they were overwhelmed's so let's be they're
Speaker 4: they're busy running a campaign. They'll say whatever they have
Speaker 4: to say. And with Trump Judge Aileen Cannon having already
Speaker 4: shown a willingness to delay this trial for six months,
Speaker 4: it's I think, but this is.
Speaker 1: This is why I think that the insurrection case has
Speaker 1: the potential to go before Aileen Cannon's case. And my
Speaker 1: ceiling is one because it's going to be held in DC.
Speaker 1: I don't know me And this is a question for you,
Speaker 1: who do we think that that judge is?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What circuit is this going through.
Speaker 1: Is that this is actually at this about national security. Right,
Speaker 1: You're talking about somebody who is going to be indicted
Speaker 1: on charges that I am going to assume one of
Speaker 1: them may in fact be seditious conspiracy, which we have
Speaker 1: seen both keeper folks and others get charged with and
Speaker 1: it stick. So I guess, like, am I being in
Speaker 1: too naive Ellie in thinking that the fate of our
Speaker 1: democracy and the person who instigated and incited the riot
Speaker 1: on the Capitol and told people to overturn the government
Speaker 1: who is running for election, that that would be caused
Speaker 1: for a speedy trial.
Speaker 4: I think you're right. I think it should. I think
Speaker 4: that the differences in the January sixth case versus the
Speaker 4: espionage case lend itself to a faster timeline than what
Speaker 4: Eileen Cannon has set up for the espionage case. As
Speaker 4: you point out, this is happening in DC. That means
Speaker 4: that the judge, we don't know what judge will get on.
Speaker 4: It will be a random choice from among the judges
Speaker 4: that sit on in the DC circuit. Right, that circuit
Speaker 4: is generally pretty split. Generally, it's not as conservative as
Speaker 4: the Florida circuit where Canon was pulled from is not
Speaker 4: as conservative as like the Fifth Circuit if it was
Speaker 4: out in Texas or Louisiana. It's a pretty pretty evenly
Speaker 4: split circuit, you know. But it's still gonna come down
Speaker 4: to kind of a random dice roll in terms of
Speaker 4: what which judge we get. Right, if you get an
Speaker 4: aggressive judge, you will have an aggressive timeline. And yeah,
Speaker 4: there's there's a good chance that they will set a
Speaker 4: date before the next election. But then the defense lawyers
Speaker 4: will appeal that date. And don't forget that these heels
Speaker 4: about the timing of the of the of the trial
Speaker 4: could go all the way to the Supreme Court, where
Speaker 4: Trump has stacked the Supreme Court with his own hand
Speaker 4: picked judges. Brett Kavanaugh in particular, is very susceptible to
Speaker 4: arguments that this is happening too close to the election
Speaker 4: for us to do anything about it, Like he's made
Speaker 4: that argument before in cases involving outright racism in electoral jerrymandering. Right,
Speaker 4: So I am not confident that an aggressive timeline will
Speaker 4: will work in front of Brett Kavanaugh or the other conservatives.
Speaker 4: So we'll still have to wait and see. But I
Speaker 4: think that it is very likely that this trial will somehow,
Speaker 4: some way get delayed until after the election.
Speaker 1: The positive is, where are you going for the positive?
Speaker 1: Because you have already put my feelings and my hopes
Speaker 1: and dreams in the dumpster along with our democracy. So
Speaker 1: where what road trip are we going? Not for the
Speaker 1: positive side?
Speaker 4: Posative is this the last time Trump lost an election,
Speaker 4: he should have immediately been thrown into jail for his
Speaker 4: efforts to overturn it. And obviously the system wasn't ready
Speaker 4: to do that. We picked Merrick Garland instead of like
Speaker 4: a better person. You know, lots of issues happen. We
Speaker 4: weren't ready. The system wasn't ready to throw his ass
Speaker 4: in jail after he lost the last election. If he
Speaker 4: loses the next one. The positive here is that I
Speaker 4: really do believe that if he loses the next election,
Speaker 4: there will be you know, tiny little handcuffs waiting for
Speaker 4: him at the end of that road. Like he needs
Speaker 4: to win the election to stay out of jail. And
Speaker 4: if he loses, and he should lose because he's a
Speaker 4: terrible person and a terrible candidate and blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: if he loses, there should be handcuffs.
Speaker 1: Waiting for him if he loses, and right now we're
Speaker 1: at a fifty to fifty fucking toss up that that
Speaker 1: is going to be the reality, right like it's fifty
Speaker 1: to fifty that Donald Trump doesn't have the maneuvers still
Speaker 1: to lie, cheat and steal his way to the White House. Now,
Speaker 1: I think that the upside, if in fact we call
Speaker 1: it that because it's not the floor, the upside is that,
Speaker 1: I hope, because we have tried the Jurassic Park version
Speaker 1: where they have touched all of the fences, and folks
Speaker 1: have been you know, are there are sixteen fake electors
Speaker 1: that are being charged in you know, in Michigan. You
Speaker 1: got other people that are being investigated. I think that
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and I want to talk about this
Speaker 1: case next the dragnet, if you will, is coming out
Speaker 1: of Georgia, because I don't think that Trump is the
Speaker 1: only person that Fannie Willis is looking at when she's
Speaker 1: prepared to drop her indictments. And so again we our
Speaker 1: democracy held on by a three read and was tested
Speaker 1: over sixty six times in court with Rudy Giuliani, with
Speaker 1: these fake electors, with the phone calls, and so I
Speaker 1: think folks are prepared for what they know could be
Speaker 1: coming their way. That's the only hope here. That and
Speaker 1: you know, a fourth indictment, the fourth and final I
Speaker 1: don't know, coming out of Georgia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if we're looking for hope, that's where
Speaker 4: we find it. Right like that, people will be more prepared,
Speaker 4: that there are elections will be more resilient this time
Speaker 4: than they were last time. Of course, you also have
Speaker 4: to worry about the fact that, you know, you One
Speaker 4: of the reasons why it's so important to prosecute people
Speaker 4: who attempt coups is that if you don't prosecute them,
Speaker 4: and if you don't hold them accountable, they just try
Speaker 4: it again, and the second time they're better. So as
Speaker 4: much as we can say that like, okay, our elections,
Speaker 4: our election system should be better prepared to defend itself
Speaker 4: from Trump, we also have to understand that Trump and
Speaker 4: his forces will make a better coup attempt round two,
Speaker 4: having potentially learned lessons from round one. We know that
Speaker 4: they've done a lot to stack the courts, to stack
Speaker 4: the secretaries of states in ways that are amenable to
Speaker 4: various coup attempts, whether the legal ones, the quote unquote
Speaker 4: legal ones of fake electors, and whatever. We all, but
Speaker 4: we also know that his more violent forces, you know,
Speaker 4: have also learned some lessons about how to violently overthrow
Speaker 4: the government, and we can we have to at least
Speaker 4: expect that they will be coming again.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: We know, for instance, one of the biggest organizing things
Speaker 4: that Trump used to put the coup out there with
Speaker 4: social media, and after you know, being banned, we know
Speaker 4: that he now has an ally in Elon Musk and
Speaker 4: social media potentially to organize another coup. So like, yes,
Speaker 4: there are more defenses, but also they're going to be
Speaker 4: new attacks, and so we have to be you know,
Speaker 4: I am still hopeful that he loses, and I'm still
Speaker 4: hopeful that after he loses, he loses all of his
Speaker 4: attempts to overthrow the election. But I'd be a fool
Speaker 4: to think that they're not going to be It's not
Speaker 4: going to be like, you know, we're watching TV on
Speaker 4: November whatever, and CNN says no, the winner is declared
Speaker 4: for and then that's it. Right, we know there's going
Speaker 4: even after he loses. At the balance, we know there's
Speaker 4: going to be another attempt, and hopefully we're prepared for
Speaker 4: that too.
Speaker 2: We shall see.
Speaker 1: Let's switch gears a little bit just to go down
Speaker 1: to Georgia and then I want to go to the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. So down in Georgia, you do have Fannie Willis.
Speaker 2: You do have.
Speaker 1: Another what I deem as another very serious case, right
Speaker 1: that she's been building an unlike the slothlike pace of
Speaker 1: Merrick Garland, she's actually been going full steam ahead for
Speaker 1: the last two years. So give us your thoughts on
Speaker 1: where Fannie will Willis is in terms of her You know,
Speaker 1: she gave us an announcement several months ago that said
Speaker 1: we were to be on the lookout between July and September.
Speaker 1: Well we're headed into August now, So what do you
Speaker 1: think about her case and the timing and then how
Speaker 1: again this all measures up as we head into the
Speaker 1: fall a year out from the presidential So I've.
Speaker 4: Always thought Georgia had the strongest case because they have
Speaker 4: the motherfucker on tape trying to overturn the election. Right,
Speaker 4: They've got, like everybody's heard the tape where he tries
Speaker 4: to find eleven thousand votes, which is just happens to
Speaker 4: be exactly how many he needs to overturn the election.
Speaker 4: So I've always thought that just kind of evidentiary that
Speaker 4: is the strongest case against them. But one thing, and
Speaker 4: I do believe that Fannie Willis has been a dedicated,
Speaker 4: kind of hardworking public servant and is trying to do
Speaker 4: things the right way. But we have seen that Fannie
Speaker 4: Willis is also sensitive to political pressure. And so you know,
Speaker 4: we saw her say before the midterms that she wouldn't
Speaker 4: release any news within a kind of zone of secrecy
Speaker 4: around the midterms so as to not unduly influence the
Speaker 4: midterm elections, which is not a legal position, it's a
Speaker 4: political position. So, you know, not something I would have done.
Speaker 4: But okay, so now again what we what we worry
Speaker 4: about with Willis is not whether or not she's going
Speaker 4: to diligently charge a crime that she can prove, but
Speaker 4: whether or not that trial comes off before the election.
Speaker 4: And you know, if if Fannie Willis is not willing
Speaker 4: to make any an announcement within a zone of secrecy
Speaker 4: around the midterms, you know, is she going to be
Speaker 4: willing to put this man to trial and let's say
Speaker 4: July twenty twenty four, right before the Republican National Convention,
Speaker 4: or he will be crowned the GOP.
Speaker 3: Nominee again, I don't know that.
Speaker 4: I don't know that she'll I don't know that I
Speaker 4: don't know that a judge will let her do a
Speaker 4: Georgia judge will let her do that.
Speaker 3: So again the I.
Speaker 4: Just am not sure despite the im men's legal jeopardy
Speaker 4: he's under, I'm just not sure that any of these
Speaker 4: trials the willis one either of the Jack Smith ones.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure that any of them come off before
Speaker 4: November twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: So essentially we're fucked right, And essentially we've all played
Speaker 1: into Donald Trump and his lawyer's hands in knowing exactly
Speaker 1: how they were going to use this, how it was
Speaker 1: going to be spun, the timeline that was going to
Speaker 1: be created. And the person to blame isn't just Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and his lawyers because we always know the tactics
Speaker 1: that we're going to be made. It is Merrick Garland
Speaker 1: and his desire to not play politics and play the
Speaker 1: most insane politics at the same time, which is, let
Speaker 1: me not go after Donald Trump because I don't want
Speaker 1: to look like this is something partisan. Let me waste
Speaker 1: twelve months of time, and now we're here.
Speaker 4: The analogy that Ivan mcgarland is like a basketball referee
Speaker 4: who swallows the whistle and refuses to call a foul,
Speaker 4: and that referee says like, Oh, I'm just trying to
Speaker 4: be neutral and fair to both sides. I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: call file's gonna let the games play out. That's not
Speaker 4: being fair and neutral. That is benefiting the team that fouls.
Speaker 4: If you don't call the rules correctly, you benefit the
Speaker 4: team that breaks the rules. And that's Merrick Garland and
Speaker 4: is a legend attempt to be non political.
Speaker 3: He has.
Speaker 4: All he's done is completely politicize the process.
Speaker 3: And that.
Speaker 4: The reason why I've been screaming about Merrick Garland for
Speaker 4: two years prior to this is because at some point
Speaker 4: his failure becomes unrecoverable, right like you can't. And this
Speaker 4: is where I'm talking about the timeline. Because of his delays,
Speaker 4: it's now very hard to squeeze everything in before the election.
Speaker 3: I mean, Danielle, riddle me this.
Speaker 4: Okay, Let's say one of these trials goes off and
Speaker 4: he gets convicted.
Speaker 3: Is he gonna get sentenced.
Speaker 4: Before the election. Is he gonna be sent to jail
Speaker 4: before the election? How does that even work? Are we
Speaker 4: gonna actually send federal marshals to arrest the Republican nominee
Speaker 4: for president eight weeks before the general election. Is that
Speaker 4: really something that's gonna happen in America, because that's gonna
Speaker 4: look like something that happens in you know, other cut
Speaker 4: in true Banana Republic countries.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: So, because the timeline has been so truncated, I just
Speaker 4: don't know how any of this happens before he's allowed
Speaker 4: to run again. And so even if he's tried and convicted,
Speaker 4: if he wins the presidency, he will pardon himself from
Speaker 4: that conviction commute, I think at that point is what
Speaker 4: you would call what he would do. And so he
Speaker 4: would ever face actual accountability even if he was convicted
Speaker 4: and he was convicted on the state charges where he
Speaker 4: can't pardon himself. I mean, again, are the Georgia State
Speaker 4: troopers gonna go arrest the president of the United States?
Speaker 1: Is that.
Speaker 4: At some point the practicality kind of Trump's the theory
Speaker 4: of the case, right, Yeah, And and so that's my problem,
Speaker 4: that's my that's my worry. Like all of this, all
Speaker 4: of this looks great on paper, right when you actually
Speaker 4: when it actually comes time to try, convict and jail
Speaker 4: this man before the election. I just think it's too late.
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be too late if we were having this
Speaker 4: trial right now, right. And that's again where the failure
Speaker 4: of Garland, where the slow pace of all the investigations
Speaker 4: really to take take a hole. If you think about
Speaker 4: where we were at the end of the January sixth
Speaker 4: Select Committee process, right where Trump could have been charged
Speaker 4: that day based on that final report from the Congressional
Speaker 4: Select Committee, right, like an aggressive prosecutor would have been
Speaker 4: really ready.
Speaker 3: To charge his ass that day.
Speaker 4: At the end of twenty twenty two, then we're talking
Speaker 4: about a trial that happens not in May twenty twenty four,
Speaker 4: but May twenty twenty three. Yeah, we're talking about a
Speaker 4: sentencing process that's happening over the summer. We're talking about
Speaker 4: the legitimate ability to capture and jail this man before
Speaker 4: Labor Day, a year and a half before the election,
Speaker 4: and that would have been doable.
Speaker 3: Now I don't know. I just it's very hard to
Speaker 3: see it happening.
Speaker 2: God, this was depressing.
Speaker 4: Well again, if he loses straight to the pokey right,
Speaker 4: if there's no addition, like again, the other way to
Speaker 4: positive to spend this positively is that Trump is using
Speaker 4: his life ast get out of jail free cards. And
Speaker 4: as long as we don't give him four years of
Speaker 4: another one, right, as long as we don't give him
Speaker 4: another draw for those cards, he's gonna run out eventually
Speaker 4: and we should be able to put his.
Speaker 3: Ass in jail.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, here's hopin, right. I have no faith,
Speaker 1: but you know, here's hoping. Before I let you go, Ellie,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna scrap Scotis because you know they've scrapped democracy
Speaker 1: in the country and integrity. But I do want to
Speaker 1: get to someone who I believe that both of us
Speaker 1: probably grew up listening to, whose music had resonated, and
Speaker 1: who has clearly had a fucking lobotomy. And that is
Speaker 1: the one and only ice Cube, who was just recently
Speaker 1: filming with none other than Tucker Carlson.
Speaker 2: Please take the floor.
Speaker 4: I would like our friend Torres Big, you know, feature
Speaker 4: pieces titled from Fuck the Police to fund the Police,
Speaker 4: the punk bitification.
Speaker 3: Of ice Cube.
Speaker 2: I'm texting him right now like that.
Speaker 4: That is what I want to read, because how this
Speaker 4: man has gone from where he was, where he was
Speaker 4: one of the.
Speaker 3: What what what what the what?
Speaker 4: The over educated Black folks like me like to call
Speaker 4: one of the urban poets, who is you know, talking
Speaker 4: about police brutality and the devastating effects that it has
Speaker 4: on the black community. To this point where he's kissing
Speaker 4: their ass is just one of the biggest devolutions that
Speaker 4: I can think of that I have seen in my lifetime. Now,
Speaker 4: I have a theory about this, Danielle. I call it
Speaker 4: the special black man theory, is that there are there
Speaker 4: are you know, one of the and this kind of
Speaker 4: they're gonna call me a critical race theorist after this,
Speaker 4: but like you know, one of the issues that I
Speaker 4: think a lot of black people chafe against is the
Speaker 4: fact that we're always grouped in with everybody else, right,
Speaker 4: We're always we're always, you know, collectively viewed as if.
Speaker 3: We are a monolithic people, and we're not. Right.
Speaker 4: And some, but some special black men like chase at
Speaker 4: that more than others, right, And so then their idea
Speaker 4: is just that whatever most black people are doing, they
Speaker 4: gotta do something different just to prove they special, they
Speaker 4: not like the rest of us, right, And so you
Speaker 4: could argue, and this is why I want, again a
Speaker 4: scholar like Terrey to kind of explain it to me,
Speaker 4: you could argue that maybe he was never really about
Speaker 4: fuck the police. Maybe he was always just about being special,
Speaker 4: just just saying that special thing that makes him a
Speaker 4: little bit different than the other lat And so now
Speaker 4: it actually so maybe it's not incongruous. Maybe it actually
Speaker 4: perfectly tracks. He was fucked the police when the most
Speaker 4: black people were like, Okay, we have to have belize
Speaker 4: what can we do? And now that most black people
Speaker 4: were like, you know what, fuck the police, he's like, oh,
Speaker 4: actually no, Tucker and I tan our balls together, like
Speaker 4: because he's just like that special guy. Like that's my
Speaker 4: that's my theory. But I have not studied, and.
Speaker 2: So I study.
Speaker 3: Somebody explained it to me you as.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think that everything that you just
Speaker 1: laid out is right. Maybe we're the ones that got
Speaker 1: it wrong, and he just wanted to be a standout,
Speaker 1: and so at a time in the eighties and early
Speaker 1: nineties he was going to be that standout with fuck
Speaker 1: the police.
Speaker 2: But maybe we too closely associated his.
Speaker 1: Rapping in the way that like Chuck d of Public Enemy,
Speaker 1: actually is that fucking guy right who believes what it
Speaker 1: is that he is rapping about and has always right,
Speaker 1: been that rapper of thought. And so maybe it fell
Speaker 1: on the rest of us that this motherfucker has just
Speaker 1: been a performer that has played the industry, played his fans,
Speaker 1: and this is who he is.
Speaker 4: Maybe for ice Cube that was just a song man.
Speaker 4: It was like you you write a song for Kesha
Speaker 4: and she's gonna sing it and it's gonna be awesome,
Speaker 4: and maybe that's all it was. For him, it was
Speaker 4: just a song, you know, and and and it wasn't
Speaker 4: you know, he's not as you say, He's not Chuck Dy,
Speaker 4: he's not KRS one. He's not one of these guys
Speaker 4: who actually lived that life or or or live that progressiveness.
Speaker 4: He was just a guy singing a song.
Speaker 2: He was just a guy singing a song. How fucking sad.
Speaker 2: I want my money back.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: I want a deeper dive into what's happening because the
Speaker 4: other thing, Daniels, and you know, we're old enough and
Speaker 4: black enough to have seen this. There is always the
Speaker 4: like Negro gets a bit of money and loses they
Speaker 4: damn mind right, Like they get a bit of money
Speaker 4: and it's like, you know the black people who when
Speaker 4: they meet the I R. S. For the first time
Speaker 4: as an adult. It's wait a minute, what are these
Speaker 4: tax i? Don't like these, Ronald Reagan told me. And
Speaker 4: that's how it happens, right, Like, It's not uncommon for
Speaker 4: people of any race, color, or creed to get a
Speaker 4: little bit more conservative as they get older and get
Speaker 4: more money and start to try to figure out how
Speaker 4: to keep it. That's not uncommon. This is just the
Speaker 4: kind of extremist, extreme extremophile version of that, you know,
Speaker 4: normal aging process.
Speaker 2: I don't well, I'll just tell you breaking news. Tore
Speaker 2: just said, good idea.
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: So, you know, folks who will have to wait and see.
Speaker 4: Daniel, I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna be able
Speaker 4: to read something like I don't want to read more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So well we'll see, we'll see you want because I
Speaker 1: have to, I had to text them like in the moment.
Speaker 2: So we won't see. Uh, we will see, uh where
Speaker 2: that goes.
Speaker 1: But you know, you could be right for a tour ray,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, for for for a tour ray,
Speaker 1: this would be the interview I'd want to see. But
Speaker 1: for ice Cube maybe that's the title of it. It
Speaker 1: was just the song. We took it too seriously evidently,
Speaker 1: As always my friend Ellie vis Staal, it is a
Speaker 1: joy and a pleasure when you bring the bad news,
Speaker 1: but you bring it with such passion and.
Speaker 2: Flair to wok F. I always appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: That is it for me today.
Speaker 1: Dear friends on wog F. As always, power to the
Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, get woke and
Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.