WEBVTT - You Just Got Bocked: The Con Artist Amy Bock

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey Elizabeth, what's up girl?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>You do let them shoes?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that real penguin?

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<v Speaker 3>It's clear leather. I know that grosses you out.

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<v Speaker 2>When every time I thought I'd get to the penguin,

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<v Speaker 2>he came back faster. Cle Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you know what's ridiculous aside from clear leather? I do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I thought. I saw this headline and I thought

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<v Speaker 2>of you, man graduates forty one years after being denied

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<v Speaker 2>ceremony by parrot problem. You thought of me. Yes, you

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<v Speaker 2>seem like somebody'd have a parrot problem, probably have a Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy, uh, he's he's a brit you know,

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<v Speaker 2>because why not? He was supposed to graduate in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty three, right, But he had a roommate who had

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<v Speaker 2>a parrot, and this guy he left his parrot and supervised,

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<v Speaker 2>and the parrot apparently had quote free run of their

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<v Speaker 2>university accommodation. Was said to have wrecked the place. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a party, hardy parrot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So the apparently the rue roommate took off and they

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<v Speaker 2>left the non parrot having roommate with just the mess

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<v Speaker 2>and so the parrot in the previous roommate bounced housing.

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<v Speaker 2>They came along, they're like, you owe us sixty four

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<v Speaker 2>pounds for the parrot damage. He's like, I refuse to pay.

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<v Speaker 2>I stand on principle. And then they're like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>well you're not going to get your degree. So they

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let him walk or get his degree till he paid.

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<v Speaker 2>He refused. Finally, forty one years later, the university he's

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<v Speaker 2>decided to waive the bill and they allowed this guy

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<v Speaker 2>to walk his graduation and he walked alongside his youngest son,

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<v Speaker 2>who also graduated and completed a biology degree. So this

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<v Speaker 2>guy who's sixty two gets to walk along with his

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<v Speaker 2>twenty one year old son. And he viewed the unpaid

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<v Speaker 2>bill as quote an ultra long term interest free loan,

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<v Speaker 2>son that would have been amazing. This is the guy

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<v Speaker 2>he till he looked like principle and also might have

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<v Speaker 2>a roommate with a parrot problem.

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<v Speaker 3>God, what a nightmare. You're in a dorm room brings

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<v Speaker 3>a parrot?

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, what's wrong with that?

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<v Speaker 3>Just so and crapping and yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally, and also the you know what, the thing about

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<v Speaker 2>parents is often they'll pick at their bars of their

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<v Speaker 2>cage to make those dong sound. They'll drive you.

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<v Speaker 3>Insane exactly, That's what I'm saying. No, that's ridiculous. Do

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<v Speaker 3>you know what else is ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>I know, but I think you do conning.

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<v Speaker 3>Over and over and over and getting caught over and

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<v Speaker 3>over and over. This is ridiculous crime A podcast about

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<v Speaker 3>absurd and outrageous capers, hets and cons. It's always ninety

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<v Speaker 3>nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh you damn right.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I talked to Dave recently about pathological liars.

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<v Speaker 2>You stopped talking to me outside of the show. I did.

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<v Speaker 3>See, and that's you being a pathological liar. It's the

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<v Speaker 3>people who suffer from pseudologica.

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<v Speaker 2>Fantastica is the we prefer fantastic.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, fantastics. I've known an actual cological liar. It was wild.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They actually cannot stop himself.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And he he claimed.

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<v Speaker 3>To be descended from royalty, not like in the immediate

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<v Speaker 3>not going back a million.

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<v Speaker 2>Generations, dad was the king. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically he said he was an army fighter pilot, and

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<v Speaker 3>he said he was a karate.

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<v Speaker 4>Master, heate master, and his physique was not cut out

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<v Speaker 4>for either.

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<v Speaker 3>He had all sorts of claims that put him usually

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<v Speaker 3>like adjacent to greatness, and some of the claims were

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<v Speaker 3>super mundane and irrelevant, like the lies added nothing got

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<v Speaker 3>him nowhere, totally pointless. Like you said, he couldn't help it,

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<v Speaker 3>could not help it. And that's the thing about pathological liars.

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<v Speaker 3>They can't help. But it's compulsive. They don't know why

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<v Speaker 3>they do what they do. And now, okay, so lying,

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<v Speaker 3>lying is a big part of crime, serens. Yes, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's a big part of getting away with crime.

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<v Speaker 2>It helps if you're good at it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the main component of con artistry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think. So you have to lie.

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<v Speaker 3>So pathological liars aren't the best for it because.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't know they're lying.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't know they're lying. They show they exhibit stress

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<v Speaker 3>and guilt from the lies because they I mean, they

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<v Speaker 3>know they're lying.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that they don't yes, I'm sorry, I'm saying

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<v Speaker 2>it's not in control of the life.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not in control exactly, so they know they're lying,

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<v Speaker 3>but it stresses about It's not like psychopaths. They feel nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>They just like lie like they breathe. So they have

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<v Speaker 3>tells and remarks, but they lie easily, so conning can

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<v Speaker 3>be natural if they have that inclination. Now, we've also

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<v Speaker 3>talked about the robin Hoods of the world, the folk

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<v Speaker 3>heroes who commit crimes for the benefits of other, generally

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<v Speaker 3>for the less fortunate, and that's that's usually theft. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>we haven't had a robin Hood con artist.

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<v Speaker 2>No, not that I can think of till look at

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<v Speaker 2>you find your own.

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<v Speaker 3>Lanes, Saren, I have a robin Hood con artist.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 3>And it gets better. The con is from New Zealand,

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<v Speaker 3>somewhere we haven't really showcased. Yes, the kiwis and the

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<v Speaker 3>con is a woman. I love this, an eccentric woman. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>that's it's great, exactly, Saren. I want you to meet

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<v Speaker 3>Amy Bach.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Amy, what's that?

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<v Speaker 3>She was born in eighteen fifty nine, So I'm sorry, you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Little I missed my shot. Yeah, I can just live

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<v Speaker 2>in her shadow.

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<v Speaker 3>Which but being born in eighteen fifty nine means that

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<v Speaker 3>she could do a lot of what she did. Oh, now,

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<v Speaker 3>a digital footprint would have like immediately prevented.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of her hyghen Oh, I mean you're you're

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<v Speaker 2>you're just get into like getting telegraph lines in your

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<v Speaker 2>rural they don't probably don't have them.

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<v Speaker 3>There we are eighteen fifty nine location Tasmania. Oh right,

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<v Speaker 3>Hobart to be exactly. Okay, so that's where she's born. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>she's born in Tasmania. She's descended from convicts sent over

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<v Speaker 3>from the UK as who had a day for white

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<v Speaker 3>folks in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>She had a really interesting family. Her dad was an

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<v Speaker 3>artist and photographer. Do you know what a cart divisit is?

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<v Speaker 3>It's like like.

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<v Speaker 2>A postcard letter of vision, like little photo cards.

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<v Speaker 3>And Victorian folks traded of themselves like socially, like when

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<v Speaker 3>you're a kid and you get school photos, the wallet

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<v Speaker 3>size ones. It's like that. And they were kind of

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<v Speaker 3>like they're super popular in Europe. Calling in eighteen fifty Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>like a calling card, except for it had a picture.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a picture on it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And would you like show up at someone's house and

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<v Speaker 2>they give them one of these, like, oh, tell them

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<v Speaker 2>I was here.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, and so or they would trade them at

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<v Speaker 3>parties like.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh like little trading cards.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Alfred bach Amy's dad is the one who brought

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<v Speaker 3>the concept to Australia. So he heard about it and

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<v Speaker 3>he figured they would dig it there and they did,

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<v Speaker 3>got huge.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so funny.

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<v Speaker 3>So the Bach family they moved from Hobart to Victoria, Okay, area.

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<v Speaker 2>Century selfies and social media wrapped up into one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, and like Baseball Trading card, eighteen sixty seven

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<v Speaker 3>is when they moved. And a few years later.

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<v Speaker 2>So she's eight Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Box's mom had worsening, like physical and psychiatric issues.

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<v Speaker 3>The breaking point was when she started to believe that

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<v Speaker 3>she was Lady Macbeth.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah like summer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, she gets sent off to an asylum. Amy never sees.

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<v Speaker 2>Her, she never recovers her non Macbeth.

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<v Speaker 3>No, this woman Jenny Coleman, she wrote a book called.

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<v Speaker 2>What a Bizarre One to Think You Are? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>often people could pick characters from myths, legend, religion.

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<v Speaker 4>Jesus, notable material exactly brown character like that's in mistake,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, they're made up, Like it's not like Napoleon

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<v Speaker 4>Energus were.

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<v Speaker 3>Like she's trapped in this play, the Scottish play. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>So Jenny Coleman, she's this author of Mad or Bad,

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<v Speaker 3>The Life and Exploits of Amy Bach. So it's like

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<v Speaker 3>that's mad, that's like the book on she said quote.

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<v Speaker 3>Amy's mother would have very manic episodes and then episodes

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<v Speaker 3>of melancolia. So probably what we think of now as

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<v Speaker 3>manic depressive or bipolar disorder.

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<v Speaker 2>Could you also be borderline anything? I try to guess.

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<v Speaker 3>I know. Okay, so but she gets sent off. Amy

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<v Speaker 3>is just ten years old and her mom's not around.

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<v Speaker 3>She starts acting out of course, but not like we've

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<v Speaker 3>seen another young criminals, no fires, no breaking into a

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<v Speaker 3>place and stealing guns and furs. One time she went

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<v Speaker 3>out and bought a load of books under her dad's name.

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<v Speaker 2>That's like you, if you were, And then she went.

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<v Speaker 3>Out and gave them away to random people and.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely like, yes, needy readers.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought I saw this book and thought of you.

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<v Speaker 3>She was not some like recluse weirdo. She was smart

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<v Speaker 3>and popular and active, and she had times when she

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<v Speaker 3>could be quiet and like maybe a little absent minded,

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<v Speaker 3>but nothing too out of the ordinary. She was a

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<v Speaker 3>really talented musician. She played the piano, great horse rider.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh loved the stage. Don't worry, I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 3>go back to quoting this statue. We're not going back

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that she was a good actor. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>she'd even play boys parts. She was versatile. So when

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<v Speaker 3>she was about seventeen, eighteen seventy six, she goes off

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<v Speaker 3>to boarding school in Melbourne. Two years later she got

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<v Speaker 3>a job as a teacher. She wanted to make some

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<v Speaker 3>money help out the family. Her dad got her a

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<v Speaker 3>gig as the only teacher at a rural school in Gippsland.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, Gippsland.

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<v Speaker 3>Sally exactly, Yes, Maryvale.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so glad we've got that squeared away.

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<v Speaker 3>Super rural areas Australia, right, okay, yeah, yeah, And like

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<v Speaker 3>Southeast Australia, the East, very very rural, a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>logging and like there's cattle ranching out there. It's absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>beautiful country, very temperate climate.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't that the Gold Coast Southeast.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like straight up in the middle of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Back then, and she was not a model employee. That's

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<v Speaker 3>the only school teacher.

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<v Speaker 2>She's the local school marm.

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<v Speaker 3>At twenty she called out sick all the time, good

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<v Speaker 3>for her all the time? Yeah, I mean you get

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<v Speaker 3>their sick time music quiet quitting nineteen, she she always

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<v Speaker 3>had a reason why she couldn't come in. It was

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<v Speaker 3>always coming up with something. And at the same time,

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<v Speaker 3>she kept getting more and more children in her classroom,

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<v Speaker 3>Like more students were.

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<v Speaker 2>Showing up, so she's a good teacher. More people are

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<v Speaker 2>moving around.

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<v Speaker 3>More students she had, the more she got paid. Oh

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<v Speaker 3>and so because she's the only teacher in this little

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<v Speaker 3>schoolhouse in the middle of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes sense.

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<v Speaker 3>But then the inspectors showed up and she had one

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<v Speaker 3>been juicing up her role.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's four kids, so.

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<v Speaker 3>That she inflated the attendance and the registration information to

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<v Speaker 3>make should make more money.

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<v Speaker 2>Superintendent wants to see the school that's popping. We got a.

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<v Speaker 3>School the middle employ The employment numbers aren't matching up

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<v Speaker 3>in the community.

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<v Speaker 2>It's only eleven working adults.

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<v Speaker 3>The people in the community, they trusted her. She was

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<v Speaker 3>the school teacher out there in the wilderness. And even

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<v Speaker 3>if she was doctoring the roll books, she still struggled.

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<v Speaker 2>Like what was she spending her money.

0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.280
<v Speaker 3>She was in a lot of debt. She would lie

0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.160
<v Speaker 3>about broken windows at the school to get extra money,

0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 3>Like she'd call up wire write a letter like, yeah,

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.800
<v Speaker 3>all the windows broke, and he'd like, here's some money

0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 3>to get him fixed. She's like, hey, she bought stuff

0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.640
<v Speaker 3>from the local shops on credit and never paid it

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 3>back to work. And there was the weird one. And I've

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.680
<v Speaker 3>like done a lot of investigations to figure out what

0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 3>this is. One time she went around to all the

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:10.040
<v Speaker 3>undertakers in town and she ordered coffins, all sizes, and

0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.080
<v Speaker 3>then she had them delivered multiple coffins to one family

0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 3>in the area. Oh God, I have no idea, Watching

0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.280
<v Speaker 3>have no idea what the family thought, like, is this

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:20.800
<v Speaker 3>a threat?

0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Is a kindness? That's the weirdest threats?

0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 3>So weird. She did this sort of thing a lot,

0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 3>just not with coffins.

0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:33.040
<v Speaker 4>A local newspapers to families.

0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 3>Quote she had a perfect mania for what she called shopping,

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.880
<v Speaker 3>which consisted of ordering goods she did not require and

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 3>could not pay for on all hands. Astonishment is expressed

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.360
<v Speaker 3>that the girl had thus far contrived to keep out

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.920
<v Speaker 3>of the lunatic asylum of which her mother was a

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.160
<v Speaker 3>confiney for many years. Much sympathy has been felt for

0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 3>miss Box, as her mistake is believed to have been

0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.160
<v Speaker 3>caused more by an hereditary misfortune than a criminal intent.

0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 3>So she's going around shopping and she just gives it

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 3>all away. Everything she takes, she gives away. She tried

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 3>to stall out her creditors. She asked for more time

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 3>to pay him back. In two of the letters that

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.599
<v Speaker 3>she wrote, she signed them as ethel Bach, which was

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.640
<v Speaker 3>her sister's name, and in those letters she told them

0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 3>that Amy was dead. I can't pay you back because

0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 3>she said, my mom does that to telemarketers all the time,

0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 3>like when they call and they ask for her, she

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 3>very somberly tells them that she's dead, not like oh,

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, I'm dead. She's like, oh, it's very sad

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 3>she passed away. It was a terrible strategy. And she'll

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 3>just be like, I am but the housekeeper. She makes

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.120
<v Speaker 3>it like it's some like vast like Bruce Wayne mansion.

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 3>I am just the housekeeper.

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 2>She ran into a thresher on the highway.

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 3>Or she answers they ask for her, and she's like yeah,

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.640
<v Speaker 3>hang on, and then she just sets the phone down

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 3>and goes about her day. Everyone, yeah, may have eighteen

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.560
<v Speaker 3>eighty four. It all starts to catch up with Amy Bach,

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 3>like what if that were the extent of her crimes?

0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 3>Like the end, No, it's not, no, we're at the

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 3>very beginning. So May of eighteen eighty four, she gets arrested,

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 3>charged with abdec Yeah, yeah, charged with obtaining goods by

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 3>way of false pretext. She was making nine pounds a month,

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 3>but she was spending way more than Yeah, And her

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 3>lawyer said she wasn't responsible for her conduct because quote

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 3>insanity exists in her family on the side of the

0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 3>mother who died many years ago in a Tasmanian lunatic asylum,

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 3>which is like, that's a sentence. But I mean, she

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 3>gets all this sympathy, and she's constantly engendering sympathy, either

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 3>because she can be trusted because she's the school teacher

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 3>in town, or she has this sad story. The Gypsuland

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 3>Times reported that Bach was quote always strange in her

0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 3>manner from quite earliest childhood and most patient of restraint,

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 3>indeed at times quite uncontrollable, which is like, doesn't really

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 3>jive with what we've heard from others.

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, exactly.

0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 3>So they had the issue there that we had all

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 3>over the world, I think at the time, with newspapers

0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 3>just writing what sounded good, hmm, what worked.

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>And also I imagine sometimes like some of these people

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 2>are copying a story off the wire and then just

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>want to juice it up. Yeah, some people are writing

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 2>the start and like, oh why not just I'm in

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 2>a bad mood take a shot at this persactly exactly.

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 3>And because they thought she wasn't right in the head

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.200
<v Speaker 3>and that she couldn't be accountable for the things she did,

0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 3>she wound up getting released and the charges were dropped.

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, A pity on her.

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 3>She did have to promise to be on her best behavior,

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 3>cross your heart, no take back for a whole year,

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 3>which she did, which I wonder if that's the best

0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.120
<v Speaker 3>solution because the court just said she didn't know what

0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 3>she was doing. Yeah, and now they make her pledge

0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 3>to not do it anymore.

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 2>But she doesn't know what that is.

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Whatever she agreed because she's clever.

0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Saren she smart? She's committed.

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Her mom had passed away in the in the asylum

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 3>not long after they checked her in there. That happened

0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 3>to my great great grandmother. I go an asylum and

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 3>then didn't make it very long after. I think that

0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 3>happened to a lot of women.

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I think so too, No, I mean I have women

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:14.000
<v Speaker 2>in my family.

0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 3>That's another crime for another day.

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of a bummer. Yeah.

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 3>So Amy's dad remarried. The gal was only a year

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 3>older than Amy. Oh no, that's comfortable. So the dad

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 3>and his new bride they moved to New Zealand and

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 3>they begged they have rock.

0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Stars in the nineteenth century. Sorry, well it's.

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 3>Like old think about it as like old West.

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 2>No, definitely, no, it's very common at that time because

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.360
<v Speaker 2>it's like, oh, I need to get a good breeding exactly.

0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 3>So they moved to New Zealand. They beg Amy, please

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 3>come here get a new start. She agrees. She hops

0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 3>on over. That's a four hour flight these days, but

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 3>it probably took like a week or so back then

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 3>by boat.

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>They want her to take care of the kids they

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 2>plan on.

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Having, probably, So she gets to New Zealand and she

0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 3>kept doing her Amy bacchist to bock up. So she

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 3>got a job as a governess in Otaho, who if

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.359
<v Speaker 3>you say so? And she was there for a couple

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 3>of weeks before she conned someone actually a guy named

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Reverend Lloyd Keating. She conned him into giving her one

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 3>pound and some concert tickets. Tower of Power E forty,

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.159
<v Speaker 3>The Goo Goo Dolls, the Korean boy band. Am I

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 3>getting close? What happens next? Where am I?

0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 3>So that cash one pound, that's the equivalent to two

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.639
<v Speaker 3>hundred and thirty nine New Zealand dollars today, which is

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 3>the equivalent of about one hundred and fifty bucks US today.

0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Just to put it all on PC, I appreciate that.

0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.680
<v Speaker 3>So she gets brought before the Auckland Police Court charged

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 3>with obtaining one pound and concert tickets via false representation.

0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 3>She just wept, she cried, She confessed I did it,

0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 3>and she said she wasn't responsible for her own acts.

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.880
<v Speaker 3>The reverend was like, you know what, I only brought

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 3>charges because I wanted to use this as a warning

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 3>to her to knock it off, never do this to

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 3>scare And then the court was like, she just confessed,

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.040
<v Speaker 3>we have to go through with these charges. Too bad.

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.919
<v Speaker 3>So sad Lucky for her, they figured out, you know what,

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.160
<v Speaker 3>you're not responsible for your own actions, and they released

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 3>her into the care of a local shopkeeper. Like poor shopkeeper.

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Why, I don't know they do you know, if they

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.560
<v Speaker 2>vouch for them in any relationship.

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:35.359
<v Speaker 3>No idea. So Bach eventually moved to Littleton, which is

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 3>at the northwestern end of the Bank's Peninsula. It's very

0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 3>close to christ Church on the eastern coast of the

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:41.439
<v Speaker 3>South Island.

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm familiar with christ Church from what I've.

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.440
<v Speaker 3>Seen on the internet. It is absolutely beautiful. Yes, it's stunning.

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 2>We should go there.

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Let's go, let's do it. So in Littleton, she went

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 3>to work as a governess for family friends from Victoria.

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.440
<v Speaker 3>Because they had they'd become hotel owners. They bought this hotel.

0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Eight months after she gets hired, she tells her employees

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.719
<v Speaker 3>that she has inherited a large sum of money. Now

0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 3>they're family friends, they know, they know, and they of

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 3>course didn't believe her because it wasn't true.

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>And they can ask other members of the family.

0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.680
<v Speaker 3>And they must have known about like her criminal history

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 3>for a while. Yeah, so they told her they didn't

0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 3>believe her, and she became incredibly offended and she quit.

0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.200
<v Speaker 3>Really that's bocking weird, but whatever. Yeah, She's like, I

0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 3>can't believe you don't believe me. I'm out of here.

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Why did you bock off like that?

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 3>Well, let's stop here. I want ads. You can't stop me.

0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 3>When we come back, we'll see what amy Bach has

0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 3>up her sleeve.

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Run the ads.

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Zaren Hey, it's April eighteen eighty six.

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Ah, my taxes are so late.

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:05.240
<v Speaker 1>I.

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.200
<v Speaker 3>Amy Bach. She quit her governess job in the huff.

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.199
<v Speaker 3>She balked on out and then she went out and

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 3>she bought a bunch of stuff on credit, as you do.

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Everyone loved her amazon back.

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.159
<v Speaker 3>She was able to convince people to trust her. She

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.400
<v Speaker 3>was a gentle governess, like, no worries, essay, she'll pay

0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 3>me back totally. She gets a bunch of stuff, takes

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 3>off for Wellington. The cops though, they're waiting for her

0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.120
<v Speaker 3>there because everyone had gotten wise to her. She's going

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.680
<v Speaker 3>around saying she's the governess for the couple that owned

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.840
<v Speaker 3>the hotel. Can I buy this petticoat and pay you

0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 3>for it later? I just inherited a bunch of money,

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.640
<v Speaker 3>so I'm good for it. They're like sure, they run

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 3>into the hotel couple. They're like, man, our governess tried

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.600
<v Speaker 3>to feed us some crazy line about coming into an inheritance.

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Total bull. Do you happen to have a line on

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 3>a good governess? We're looking for what?

0:20:58.240 --> 0:20:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we new one, don't.

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.280
<v Speaker 3>So she was brought back to christ Church and she

0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.479
<v Speaker 3>had to stand charges before the Resident Magistrates Court and

0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 3>it was there that she was convicted and sentenced to

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.679
<v Speaker 3>one month's hard labor and imprisonment at Addington Prison.

0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, so she's out there doing like breaking rocks.

0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Breaking rocks in the hot sun. Here's a fun fact.

0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.119
<v Speaker 3>Couple fun facts about that. Fun facts about Addington Prison.

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Please.

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 3>It is an example of Gothic Revival architecture Gothic architecture

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.359
<v Speaker 3>seventy four, built by Benjamin Mountfort. He also designed the

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.000
<v Speaker 3>christ Church Cathedral.

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Of course, I know, right Mountfort.

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 3>Over the years, the building has been used as a jail,

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.560
<v Speaker 3>a women's prison in a military camp.

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.960
<v Speaker 2>So Mount Foresque Prison was closed.

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 3>In nineteen ninety nine. It was empty until early two

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.840
<v Speaker 3>thousand and six, when the building was bought by a

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.880
<v Speaker 3>local couple who renovated the building and turned it into

0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 3>a super hip budget backpacker hostel. Oh you can stay there.

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh now, it's like a bitcoin mining operation.

0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.800
<v Speaker 3>Go to jail dot co dot n Z. Jail dot

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 3>co dot nz and you can see it. Joe, you

0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 3>can stay at Addington Prison. Joe cons calms.

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Jail con that's right there, Wow, Rich, right there, Elizabeth, Oh,

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 2>God's right there.

0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 3>It's just been here in front of me the whole time.

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Realize, realize, realize.

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:31.360
<v Speaker 3>Okay, eighteen sixty six it's where Amy Bach was sent

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 3>and that was her first time behind bars.

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Finally she gets out.

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:41.679
<v Speaker 3>She moves to Wellington. Just keeps bocking, JKB, just keep bocking.

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.600
<v Speaker 3>So she quote, she kept quote obtaining goods under false

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 3>pretenses like over and she did get work. She got

0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.320
<v Speaker 3>a job as a matron at the Otaki Mawori Boys College.

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 3>It's basically like a K through two school.

0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.960
<v Speaker 2>The whole idea, like cod is her charge on delivery.

0:22:59.000 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 2>This is likely.

0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 3>So she's working at this school. And then then as now,

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 3>most of the students were from low income households and

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.399
<v Speaker 3>most were Maori, and she would hustle money and goods

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 3>from all her cons but she didn't use it for herself. Instead,

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:15.119
<v Speaker 3>she used it to buy like some of it she

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 3>used to buy boots for the students.

0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:17.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh I love that.

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is when I really started to like her,

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 3>Like she's just make this turn. Yeah, she's living in

0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.560
<v Speaker 3>poverty and she just goes around buying stuff for people.

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>She's basically a larcenus nun.

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and this thinks she's generous. Yeah, she got pinched

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 3>and in July eighteen eighty seven, she was back in

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.920
<v Speaker 3>court on fraud charges. She did the whole I don't

0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.800
<v Speaker 3>know what I'm doing thing, and then the papers talked

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 3>about how her mom had been mentally ill. She gets

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 3>sentenced to right, she gets sentenced to six months attention.

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.200
<v Speaker 2>In dun Eden to get longer stretches.

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, governor of the prison there was really taken with

0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 3>her comportment, Like he thought her manners or social skills,

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.040
<v Speaker 3>her teaching experience would be a good fit for her

0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 3>to get a gig teaching classes at the prison, and

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.440
<v Speaker 3>she was offered to position as teacher. But then the

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 3>offer was rescinded when the governor found out that she

0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:15.880
<v Speaker 3>was planning an escape, like how she was forging letters

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 3>from an imaginary aunt that would somehow get her released.

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. It's also convoluted. It made no sense,

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 3>and I think even the governor was like, this makes

0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 3>no sense.

0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:28.920
<v Speaker 2>There's no stamp on this envelope, Like that's.

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 3>It, you know, whatever in prison with you go back

0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:35.280
<v Speaker 3>to yourself. Quiet. Now she did get out. Eventually, she

0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:39.399
<v Speaker 3>got discharged January eighteen eighty eight. Okay, so that's January.

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:44.720
<v Speaker 3>By April she's back in court. She does these quick successions.

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 3>She was working as a freelance music instructorlance and once.

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Again I remember that one. Yeah. Great.

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:54.359
<v Speaker 3>She was using her trusted job in the community to

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 3>get some stuff from folks on credit and then she

0:24:57.440 --> 0:24:58.280
<v Speaker 3>never paid for it.

0:24:58.320 --> 0:24:59.160
<v Speaker 2>They got bocked.

0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:04.160
<v Speaker 3>Just going on, they got her that. This all gets

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.960
<v Speaker 3>her two months in prison this time, and she actually

0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 3>this time she asked to be sent to an insane asylum.

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:12.719
<v Speaker 3>This is what she said. Quote the malady I suffer

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 3>from now has been upon me from childhood, and no

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 3>one but God and myself know the fearful horror I've

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:21.359
<v Speaker 3>had to face year after year in the knowledge that

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 3>instead of my being able to fight successfully against it,

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 3>as I have prayed so often to do, it has

0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 3>rather overpowered me more and more. And then so she

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 3>said she inherited madness and kleptomania from her mother. But

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:38.240
<v Speaker 3>the judge was not buying that. He said that kleptomania

0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 3>was quote only another name for stealing.

0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he doesn't believe the pathologies and quote.

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 3>It would never do to countenance it. If we did,

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:48.919
<v Speaker 3>a good many people would soon be bound to think

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 3>that they were suffering with that disease. So yeah, he's

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 3>like get out of here with that. So there goes

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.359
<v Speaker 3>that defense. She did her time, and then she moved

0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 3>to Hakoroa on the Banks.

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Peninsula is also a Maori settlement. Yeah, Maori encampment.

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.160
<v Speaker 3>It's interesting, like you would see you see the very

0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:13.879
<v Speaker 3>anglicized names of places, and then they have like the

0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Maori names. And I found a really good Maori dictionary

0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 3>and like they would they show you how to pronounce things,

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.480
<v Speaker 3>and I, of course butcher it because I'm me. But

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 3>it's like you want to be really respectful to the

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 3>place names. And uh, it's fascinating to see that kind

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 3>of like second layer two things totally. So she goes

0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 3>there once again. She gets a job as a governess.

0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:40.119
<v Speaker 3>It is one of the only few jobs that she

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:41.800
<v Speaker 3>can like at the time.

0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Imagine only like bookkeeper, governess made made seamstress.

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 3>That kind of stuff. And once again she boked it up.

0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 3>She gets busted, brought before the christ Church Magistrate court

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 3>once again. The prosecutor pointed out that she did the

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.919
<v Speaker 3>same thing over and over and over again. She had

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.640
<v Speaker 3>a long record of these short box and then this

0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:08.359
<v Speaker 3>time she gets sentenced to concurrent six months sentences for

0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:12.360
<v Speaker 3>larceny and false pretenses from back in April of that year.

0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:15.480
<v Speaker 3>So she did her time as always, went back to

0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:18.679
<v Speaker 3>Dunedin and she got a job as a housekeeper. So

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 3>she's able to hold that down for like a year.

0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:25.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then in April of eighteen ninety she tried

0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 3>to pawn some of her employers.

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 2>I was just about to say house of other people's

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:32.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff exactly.

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:35.919
<v Speaker 3>So she runs away from Dunedon in early May, and

0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 3>then she gets arrested in Geraldine on May seventeenth. She

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:43.240
<v Speaker 3>didn't have a lawyer and she didn't deny what she'd done.

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.920
<v Speaker 3>The prosecutor described the fraud as quote the most cunning

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 3>scheme that had ever been adopted in the colony schemes.

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.280
<v Speaker 3>It does not say too much about the criminal element in.

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Lawyer that assessment.

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 3>Taking into account her priors, the court sentenced her to

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:08.360
<v Speaker 3>the maximum sentence three years in jail. In prison, she.

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Did not catching real time.

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she did two years and four months of her

0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:15.800
<v Speaker 3>sentence and she gets released October eighteen ninety two, time

0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 3>off for good behavior and all that. She moved to.

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Young eighteen ninety two. She's born in fifty nine. So yes,

0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 2>she's like thirty three years old.

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 3>So she moves to Timaru or tetiki Omaru, okay, and

0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:34.639
<v Speaker 3>so pretty soon like she gets there, she presents herself

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 3>as a wealthy tourist. She's like, look at me, I'm

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 3>a wealthy tourist. She borrows one pound from a school

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.800
<v Speaker 3>principle after she said she lost her purse. She's like,

0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.560
<v Speaker 3>I just got here. I'm so rich white Way purse. Yeah,

0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:52.720
<v Speaker 3>So she takes off with the cash, makes no effort

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 3>at repayment. She gets quickly caught, sentenced to a month

0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:59.840
<v Speaker 3>in the clink because why girl. She tells the court

0:28:59.880 --> 0:29:02.959
<v Speaker 3>she had to leave after receiving unexpected news of her

0:29:02.960 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 3>father's death. She's like, they didn't give me a chance

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 3>to pay this back. And the problem is that he's

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 3>still alive and living in Melbourne, and so like Amy

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 3>had to do her month.

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I got news he's gonna die. He's gonna someday,

0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 2>someday soon. I love him so much.

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 3>She does her month. She gets out, she reaches out

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:24.760
<v Speaker 3>to the Salvation Army for help.

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Then also kept stealing things from no not yet, but

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 3>she pawned her landlady's husband's watch in April of eighteen

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 3>ninety three, which got her six months in prison. She

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:45.640
<v Speaker 3>gets out in October eighteen ninety three. She moved to Amru.

0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:49.080
<v Speaker 3>After a pallet of salvation, Army told her that she

0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:49.880
<v Speaker 3>could come out there.

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, once again, she's got friends.

0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, once again. She played the phony large inheritance card

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 3>and she used that as leverage to try and buy

0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:04.640
<v Speaker 3>this huge house, six bedroom house for her friend's family.

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 3>She's like, I just got this huge inheritance. I'm gonna

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 3>buy you guys a house because you're so nice. He

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:10.160
<v Speaker 3>told me to come out.

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Here, thinks yeah.

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.200
<v Speaker 3>So she goes and she signs the sale note on

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.480
<v Speaker 3>the house, and she like quote, arranges for a deposits.

0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 2>To be paid the next day. Credit will come.

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Then she goes on a shopping spree. She went to

0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:25.240
<v Speaker 3>furniture stores. She's like, selecting all the trappings for the house.

0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 3>I can't believe how great your prices are. I thought

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:32.760
<v Speaker 3>seventy five pounds. I thought it was gonna be one

0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 3>hundred and fifty pounds easy, My god. And she's like,

0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 3>I you know, I want it all. I want to

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 3>get all this stuff, and then she's like, oh, wait,

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.760
<v Speaker 3>where's my wallet? I can't Oh no, like I'm so rich.

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Where's my purse? Can I borrow like I.

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Don't know, twenty pounds? And then when I'll come.

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Back and buy you just a quick.

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:57.760
<v Speaker 3>Loan and the furniture was like all right, money exactly.

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 3>She ran this con on him a couple of time,

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 3>the same person. Yes, each time he grows more suspicious,

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 3>like hello, but he still gave her cash. So she

0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 3>tries to become a formal member of the Salvation Army.

0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.040
<v Speaker 3>You know they do good work, of course, but the

0:31:15.040 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 3>local captain, sir, yes, sir, he knew about her past,

0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 3>and he said that she'd have to conclusively prove to

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 3>him that she'd changed her ways. And that's hard to

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 3>do in the middle of a scam sale of a

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 3>mansion and stealing from a local businessman. It's really not easy.

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:34.520
<v Speaker 3>But it wasn't just the furniture, guys. She did also

0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:38.840
<v Speaker 3>con Salvation Army troops of thirty shillings for tickets to

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>an event. So again she's just like, I don't think

0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:49.200
<v Speaker 3>she goes to these concerts, just like she just gives

0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 3>people the tickets to have a good time.

0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate her style.

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 3>So then she bounces out. She leaves her Palmerston. They

0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:57.600
<v Speaker 3>got bokeed.

0:31:57.600 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Baba, She's out of there.

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 3>So she gets caught pretty quickly in Palmerston, arrested, sentenced

0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 3>to four months of hard labor. That was her eighth

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 3>time in prison.

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow did she get like anything for her ten times

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>in prison? With a special punch card. She went present.

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 3>Nine in October of eighteen eighty five when she got

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 3>busted for not paying for her room and board. Oh yeah,

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:22.239
<v Speaker 3>she did three months for that. She gets out, she

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:26.080
<v Speaker 3>gets sent to this Mount Magdala home in christ Church.

0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:27.200
<v Speaker 3>This is Catholic run.

0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Home from Mount Magdalen.

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:32.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for fallen women, Yes, fallen. So by nineteen oh

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 3>one she's.

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Out, she's out of the game, out of the.

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, she's out of the home for fallen women. She's like,

0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 3>I got up and I'm no longer I've fallen, but

0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:44.360
<v Speaker 3>I can get up. So she gets a job as

0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 3>a housekeeper in Wymody and she told them that her

0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:52.360
<v Speaker 3>name was miss Sherwin.

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, nasty.

0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 3>She seemed to be catching up on that, like her

0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 3>past is going to catch up with her.

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so she now knows fake are necessary for her

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 2>get go and.

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:05.160
<v Speaker 3>Like like everywhere else she goes, she accumulates an incredible

0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:08.719
<v Speaker 3>amount of debt. And to wipe that debt, she faked

0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:10.920
<v Speaker 3>the death of Miss Sherwin and just skipped time.

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard about miss so sad? Miss Sherwin died.

0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 3>Go over, Look, she's behind that building over.

0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.080
<v Speaker 2>She needs to show up in these towns presenting as

0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the secretary for Miss Sherwin. Order the stuff. Miss Sherwin dies.

0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Now she's got to like go take her back to

0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the family. Yeah, you don't want to deal with her

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>because she's all sad. Poor woman, got to take a

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, I should have been an eighteen ninety sus.

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Should have God. So a year later, she's back in

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:41.960
<v Speaker 3>christ Church. Now she's calling herself Miss Mary Shannon.

0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>These names so forgettable but yet so believable.

0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. She she piled up with the guy named Alfred

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 3>William Buxton. He was like a well known landscape gardener

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 3>and Alfie Buxton, Yeah, good old alf Buxton. Pretty soon

0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 3>she's staying in this house.

0:33:57.120 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I've been waiting for this. The movie either not

0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:03.880
<v Speaker 2>interested in her sexuality, but her using of somebody else

0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:07.360
<v Speaker 2>for leverage, either in some kind of personal relationship, pretending

0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to be a widow whatever, Oh I got some yes.

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.839
<v Speaker 3>So March nineteen oh three, Buxton introduces her to some

0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:18.919
<v Speaker 3>people that he knew. Amy approaches them and is like, hey,

0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 3>do you want to go in on a poultry farm

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 3>with me? She wants to know. They want to invest

0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:30.800
<v Speaker 3>in this poultry farm she was eyeing in Mount Rosskill,

0:34:31.280 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Mount Roskill, and they bought in and she dipped out.

0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 3>There was, of course no poultry farm, so she gets caught.

0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 3>She goes to prison for two years for that one

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.240
<v Speaker 3>hard labor, not just lock up. So the press gets

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:47.400
<v Speaker 3>wind of earth AT's point and people are fascinated by her.

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.799
<v Speaker 3>The cops were like, they were surprised by how good

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 3>she was while doing bad. The robinhood thing, Yeah, like

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 3>most of what's yeah, most of what she stole she

0:34:56.920 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 3>gave to the needy, like especially young women working as

0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:05.200
<v Speaker 3>maids and housekeepers. Yeah, here she has living in poverty.

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:08.319
<v Speaker 3>She doesn't really drink, She never drank, she doesn't sell

0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:12.279
<v Speaker 3>her body, never physically assaulted or killed anybody. So it's

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:17.120
<v Speaker 3>like they're kind of shocked. Yeah, exactly. The Evening Post

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 3>in Wellington ran an article about her with the headline

0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:25.440
<v Speaker 3>remarkable female swindler unique in colonial criminology. Let me read

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:29.520
<v Speaker 3>you some of it is a female swindler's remarkable career,

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:33.960
<v Speaker 3>which stands unique in the annals of colonial criminology, recently

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 3>ended for the time being when she passed within the

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:40.080
<v Speaker 3>walls of the Terrace Jail to serve a substantial sentence.

0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.480
<v Speaker 3>Though still young in years, she has left a remarkable

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:46.360
<v Speaker 3>impression on the criminal records of the colony. There is

0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 3>an outstanding fact that in New Zealand, perhaps in Australasia,

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:55.480
<v Speaker 3>this woman, who passed under many names, stands supreme in

0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 3>cleverness over other female criminals and in her own particular line.

0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:02.120
<v Speaker 3>And her position is probably unique.

0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I like it.

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:08.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they make this interesting observation about her quote. Thus,

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 3>as is not uncommon with great artists, she sometimes suffered

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 3>through her task being too well done. For the most part,

0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:20.760
<v Speaker 3>she traded on the credulity of her own sex. Her youth, accomplishments,

0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:23.320
<v Speaker 3>social gifts, and knowledge of the world were used to

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 3>ingratiate herself with sympathetic and sometimes admiring sisters. No case

0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:31.080
<v Speaker 3>is known of her using these gifts to gain her

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:35.879
<v Speaker 3>end by means of entering into an intrigue with a man. Interesting, Yeah,

0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 3>it's an interesting observation.

0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.399
<v Speaker 2>Also, going to protect you from violence, that's really true too.

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:42.720
<v Speaker 2>You know a place with a lot of like former convicts.

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Imagine it's a little bit rough. You know, people are

0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:46.239
<v Speaker 2>going to be a little bit tolerant of violence as

0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:48.279
<v Speaker 2>it means to get back at somebody if you don't

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:49.360
<v Speaker 2>wrong a man. You know.

0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:51.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, and I don't know it was New Zealand, the convicts.

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I'm imagining that Australia.

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:55.600
<v Speaker 3>But I think too she's in New Zealand.

0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I know's back in New Zealand, but I think just

0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the culture.

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:02.240
<v Speaker 3>It's a wild West culture. It's like a frontier culture exactly.

0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:03.960
<v Speaker 3>And I think you don't even need to be in

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.320
<v Speaker 3>the frontier to know that that's how you would avoid

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.600
<v Speaker 3>violence totally. But that's a really great observation. So she's

0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:12.080
<v Speaker 3>like stealing from rich women to give to poor women.

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Basically love that.

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:16.120
<v Speaker 3>They wrap up the piece with this quote she was

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:18.880
<v Speaker 3>a fatalist, regarding her failing as a disease.

0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Quote.

0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:21.959
<v Speaker 3>It is something to have kept good for seven years.

0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:24.880
<v Speaker 3>She is reported to have remarked, quote and what can

0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.520
<v Speaker 3>you expect? It's in the blood, And there can scarcely

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:31.719
<v Speaker 3>be a doubt that this statement is absolutely true.

0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:35.680
<v Speaker 2>So they're basically saying it's madness that she's becoming.

0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 3>Just in the blood for her to do this. She

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:41.839
<v Speaker 3>can't help it. October nineteen oh four, she gets out

0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:45.279
<v Speaker 3>of prison with some time serve her good behavior, and

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:47.839
<v Speaker 3>she was sent to the Samaritan Home in christ Church.

0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.600
<v Speaker 3>She only lasted two days there before she just left.

0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:53.319
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't for hers there, she just walked out.

0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 3>She took off. By February of nineteen oh five, she

0:37:56.560 --> 0:38:02.960
<v Speaker 3>was living in Rakaya under the name Amy Channel c

0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:05.640
<v Speaker 3>h A n E L. I'm going to guess she

0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:09.080
<v Speaker 3>pronounced it like channel and not channel Amy. You know

0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:13.719
<v Speaker 3>who knows. So in Rikaya she tried to mess with

0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:15.880
<v Speaker 3>a check to show it made out for more than

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:16.600
<v Speaker 3>it should have been.

0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they'll get you there, and yeah that she got caught.

0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Trying to bock on that one. Usually she would own

0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 3>up to what she'd done and ask for mercy because

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:27.480
<v Speaker 3>she couldn't help it. This time she pled. She pleaded

0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:29.880
<v Speaker 3>not guilty, and I think it made it worse for

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:33.240
<v Speaker 3>her because she was convicted and sentenced to three years inside.

0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah.

0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:37.319
<v Speaker 3>So after two and a half years, Amy gets out.

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 3>It's nineteen oh seven. She went back to the Samaritan Home.

0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Remember she only stayed two days last time, But this

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 3>time she's like, all right, I'll stay here. She starts

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 3>hanging out with members of the Pollard's Liliputian Opera Company

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.400
<v Speaker 3>who were performing at the Theater Royal.

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Is that lil a Putia? Like that youth missing for

0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:55.719
<v Speaker 2>little people?

0:38:55.880 --> 0:38:59.920
<v Speaker 3>No, they're children, it's like a youth opera company entry.

0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:03.200
<v Speaker 3>And like she even traveled with them to dun Edon.

0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 3>Remember she was once a great musician.

0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:07.440
<v Speaker 2>An actor and a teacher school marma.

0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But in dun Eden she couldn't help herself. She

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 3>went around telling people that she was the patron of

0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:17.120
<v Speaker 3>the opera company, the generous donor who made it all happen,

0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.160
<v Speaker 3>and she used that story to borrow money that she

0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:24.400
<v Speaker 3>had no intention of repaying. So the opera company moved on,

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.479
<v Speaker 3>but Amy stayed in dun Eaton.

0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:28.359
<v Speaker 2>I wish she was like a woman of appetite who

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:30.840
<v Speaker 2>goes to restaurants and says like yeah, they just I

0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:32.600
<v Speaker 2>would like to have this meal. It's going to be

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 2>on a bill, and she at least gets to enjoy

0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:35.000
<v Speaker 2>the meal.

0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:37.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm sure she was giving the money to the kid.

0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:41.040
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure she's greater than mids of small mindedness

0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>because she's doing this to get the kids into opera.

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:44.520
<v Speaker 2>She's doing this to give other stuff. But I just

0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:45.919
<v Speaker 2>wish once she got the meal.

0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, honestly. Well, so she's in dun Eden. She gets

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 3>a job as a housekeeper and she's calling herself Agnes Valance.

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh like that, and her employers loved her, and all

0:39:56.480 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 3>was well until they went away for the Christmas holiday,

0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 3>and she immediately went out and got loans using the

0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:07.480
<v Speaker 3>name Charlotte Skevington, and she used the furniture in the

0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:11.040
<v Speaker 3>family's house is collateral. And then the lenders find out

0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 3>it's a ruse. The family comes back from vacation, a

0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.960
<v Speaker 3>warrant is issued for her arrest. January nineteen oh nine.

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:21.280
<v Speaker 3>Been Amy already in the wind, got bough, they got buked.

0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:23.759
<v Speaker 3>Let's pause for a break. I'm going to leave you

0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:25.960
<v Speaker 3>wondering where she went next, and I will answer that

0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:50.880
<v Speaker 3>question upon our return. Zarin yo, Amy buck, What the

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:56.319
<v Speaker 3>buck is going on? Amy box? She ran away from

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.759
<v Speaker 3>the scams that she was pulling in Duneton and she

0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:03.560
<v Speaker 3>went to Port Malino on the South Otago coast.

0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Of course, look at me, like, I know.

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:12.640
<v Speaker 3>It's in an area called the Nuggets. There's like Nugget

0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:15.040
<v Speaker 3>Bay and then Nuggets.

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:16.360
<v Speaker 2>And whatever Australia.

0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So she got a room at a huge guesthouse

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:24.360
<v Speaker 3>called at Albion House that was just packed with tourists.

0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:26.600
<v Speaker 3>It was like a fox getting a room at the

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:32.200
<v Speaker 3>hen house. So she adopted a new identity. Well this time,

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:34.680
<v Speaker 3>she's not a maid. She's not a teacher, not a

0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:38.759
<v Speaker 3>patron of the arts, not a woman. She was Perceval

0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Leonard Carroll Redwood, a rich sheep farmer from a moneyed family,

0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:52.200
<v Speaker 3>nephew of an archbishop. He was a former horse jockey,

0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:57.680
<v Speaker 3>as evident by his small friends. Of course, everybody loved

0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 3>him there, and everyone took him at face value, except

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 3>for some of the kids on the property. Like they

0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:06.960
<v Speaker 3>would refer to Percy as a woman dressed as a

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:09.040
<v Speaker 3>man if they saw him, like at the door sitting

0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:12.000
<v Speaker 3>in the parlor. One kid one time said, look, mommy,

0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:15.480
<v Speaker 3>look at the man with the lady's face, and everyone

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:19.800
<v Speaker 3>was all embarrassed and like corrected the kids Percy Redwood,

0:42:19.880 --> 0:42:22.759
<v Speaker 3>He's like rich and fun and how dare they insult him?

0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:25.240
<v Speaker 3>Like he didn't choose to be so small and fine bold.

0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:30.279
<v Speaker 3>So a guest later told a reporter quote, he was

0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:32.920
<v Speaker 3>an alright chap. He had plenty of money, and if

0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.000
<v Speaker 3>you wanted anything, he was the boy to buy it

0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:38.280
<v Speaker 3>for you. The essence of all that was good and kind.

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:40.800
<v Speaker 3>He appeared to have to do good to other people.

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:44.759
<v Speaker 3>His affability and obliging nature made us all like him.

0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I wonder why she went for the switch.

0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:48.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it's ultimate hide. I mean it's correct.

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:51.840
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thing is that they're saying like this

0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:54.719
<v Speaker 3>is like the peak yee. So you know you know

0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:57.000
<v Speaker 3>what that means. It's time for scams.

0:42:57.160 --> 0:42:59.439
<v Speaker 2>Someone's going to get boxed. Oh yeah, what's going to happen?

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I can send the baking coming.

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:04.440
<v Speaker 3>So Amy gets all sorts of loans from people. As Percy.

0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:07.440
<v Speaker 3>She said she lost her or rather Percy lost his

0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 3>wallet on a fishing trip and like wallet, everything was

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 3>in the wallet, like all this cash and like a

0:43:14.080 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 3>promisory note for even more cash and then like bank transfer.

0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Things, German bear bonds totally.

0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.480
<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't just the other tourists who got bokeed.

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:27.359
<v Speaker 3>A local woman loaned Bock her entire life savings until

0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:28.520
<v Speaker 3>more money could be sent.

0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 2>What yeah, Amy just loanrse. Yeah.

0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:35.760
<v Speaker 3>Amy kept this all up by using some classic con tools.

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 3>She had letters to Percy from lawyers and phony Redwood

0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 3>family like, as well as postal orders. Percy would go

0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:47.880
<v Speaker 3>off to dun Eden unquote business just like flush with cash,

0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:52.680
<v Speaker 3>so he conned there. Amy con there to pay back

0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:55.160
<v Speaker 3>the cons at the Nuggets. She's got a multi distance

0:43:55.200 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 3>pond and all of the evidence made it look like

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Percy Redwood was a rust funder, a man of adventure,

0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:08.400
<v Speaker 3>and no Amy bach criminal heavy baggage insight. So it

0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:13.920
<v Speaker 3>was in Port Molino that Amy met Agnes Ottaway. Friends

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:18.000
<v Speaker 3>and family called her NeSSI. Her parents owned Albion House,

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:20.600
<v Speaker 3>the guest house where Percy was staying. They grew close.

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:25.680
<v Speaker 3>Nessie thought Percy was pretty keen, real fox. Percy reciprocated

0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:29.000
<v Speaker 3>those feelings. Her parents kind of pushed like they wanted

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:33.240
<v Speaker 3>her to get married and Percy. One day, Percy presented

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:37.640
<v Speaker 3>Nessie with a five diamond engagement ring. What yauza perse

0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:41.120
<v Speaker 3>Jenny Coleman, the author of the biography, He said, quote,

0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:44.160
<v Speaker 3>I think it was how far can I make this

0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:45.000
<v Speaker 3>scam work?

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:45.840
<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm wondering.

0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 3>This would have been pretty close to the pinnacle of

0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Amy's career as a con artist.

0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.919
<v Speaker 2>It has to be intoxicated helping these two crazy kids

0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:55.520
<v Speaker 2>can make it almost to the aisle well.

0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Amy faked letters from Percy's moms and slipped them into

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:03.760
<v Speaker 3>the mayl. To Nessie's parents, they spoke of the family's

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:06.840
<v Speaker 3>wealth and the excitement that Percy was settling down and

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:12.200
<v Speaker 3>marrying into such a formidable and upright family. She faked

0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:16.439
<v Speaker 3>letters with job offers for Percy, letters from banks being like, yep,

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:22.719
<v Speaker 3>you got a lot of money, and she'd get it

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.480
<v Speaker 3>done because she would ride along with the truck. Percy

0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.239
<v Speaker 3>would ride along with the truck taking letters and goods

0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:32.280
<v Speaker 3>to town, and she was able to intercept any letters

0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.680
<v Speaker 3>going out from Nessie's family to either the quote Redwoods

0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:40.000
<v Speaker 3>or other entities. She was able to if Nessie's parents

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:42.719
<v Speaker 3>wanted to write to his family, he snatched that up

0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.880
<v Speaker 3>and then wrote a fake return and then he slipped

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.560
<v Speaker 3>his or she slipped the fake letters in anyway, So

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:50.719
<v Speaker 3>this was going to be the wedding of the year

0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:54.919
<v Speaker 3>because it's huge poor Nessie is all set to marry

0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:58.800
<v Speaker 3>a woman pulling off her ultimate con Amy as Percy

0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 3>went around town or ordering up so much stuff for

0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:07.480
<v Speaker 3>the wedding like insane and borrowing money for it all. Well, yeah,

0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:11.160
<v Speaker 3>like Percy's racking up this like tab that my mom's

0:46:11.160 --> 0:46:12.680
<v Speaker 3>going to be in town for the wedding and she's

0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.800
<v Speaker 3>going to pay everything. Took out a marriage license, like

0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:19.080
<v Speaker 3>did everything on the up and up. Amy spent so

0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.360
<v Speaker 3>much of everyone else's money that the business owners in

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:26.080
<v Speaker 3>town started getting suspicious because they're all like talking and

0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:29.200
<v Speaker 3>realizing that no cash had been exchanged, like everything is

0:46:29.280 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 3>on credit. And then Percy confided in friends that all

0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:36.399
<v Speaker 3>the suspicions around him were starting to really get to him.

0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:42.000
<v Speaker 3>It's really upsetting. I hear all the murmurs, and Percy's like,

0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.680
<v Speaker 3>should I call the whole thing off? And they're like no,

0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.480
<v Speaker 3>they told him this is true love. You go ahead

0:46:47.480 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 3>and you marry your girl, which is like a masterful

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:54.200
<v Speaker 3>gambit because he gets a whole bunch of people. She

0:46:54.400 --> 0:46:57.000
<v Speaker 3>gets a whole bunch of people in her corner. They're

0:46:57.000 --> 0:47:00.840
<v Speaker 3>willing to defend this fairy tale. So right before, and

0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:04.000
<v Speaker 3>people don't ever want to be proven wrong. So right

0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:08.200
<v Speaker 3>before the wedding, the groom receives the unfortunate news from

0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:10.200
<v Speaker 3>his family that they would not be able to attend.

0:47:11.520 --> 0:47:14.759
<v Speaker 3>It turns out there was another family wedding on the

0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:17.920
<v Speaker 3>exact same day and they just couldn't be in two

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:24.520
<v Speaker 3>places at once. That Elizabeth Percy's devastated, so upset, and

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:26.920
<v Speaker 3>that everyone's trying to console him. Oh my god, I'm

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:30.279
<v Speaker 3>so sorry your family, I understand. And this threw a

0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:32.480
<v Speaker 3>wrench in a couple of things. First, they had to

0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:37.400
<v Speaker 3>replace Percy's sisters in the bridal party, just the visualry

0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:41.040
<v Speaker 3>the new best man because his dad was that. But

0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:42.840
<v Speaker 3>then there's also the matter of repayment.

0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, the person paying for everything.

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:49.160
<v Speaker 3>Mom's supposed to come in to pay it off. Clothes, gifts,

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:56.919
<v Speaker 3>carriage rides. But you know what, the weddings go nonetheless, Zaren, Yes, yes,

0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:01.759
<v Speaker 3>I want you to picture it. It's April twenty first,

0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:05.680
<v Speaker 3>nineteen oh nine. You are the right Reverend John Calvert

0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:11.600
<v Speaker 3>George Duncan Blathwaite, an Anglican minister from Balclutha. You are

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:15.120
<v Speaker 3>at Albion House to perform the wedding of Nessy and Percy.

0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:18.640
<v Speaker 3>It's a lovely autumn day. The homes French doors are

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:20.799
<v Speaker 3>all open, and the sounds of birds and the scent

0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 3>of flowers fill the air. The two hundred guests in

0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:27.600
<v Speaker 3>their finery mill about the ground, sipping champagne and chatting.

0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:30.560
<v Speaker 3>You stand at the hearth in the great room at

0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:33.440
<v Speaker 3>the guest house, preparing to bind the couple in the

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:37.600
<v Speaker 3>eternal knot of holy matrimony. A grandfather clock ticks in

0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:41.279
<v Speaker 3>the background. You can't help but eavesdrop As people take

0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:44.839
<v Speaker 3>their seats. Some whisper about how much money Percy owes

0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:48.040
<v Speaker 3>them or a family member. Others spread gossip about his

0:48:48.160 --> 0:48:51.000
<v Speaker 3>family not showing up, or some of the inconsistencies in

0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:54.560
<v Speaker 3>his stories. You'd heard wonderful things about this man, but

0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:57.560
<v Speaker 3>now you're seeing some cracks in the facade. You'd thought

0:48:57.600 --> 0:48:59.560
<v Speaker 3>there was something off about him when you met him,

0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:02.439
<v Speaker 3>but you couldn't put your finger on it. No matter,

0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:05.000
<v Speaker 3>You're here to get down to business and enjoy the

0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:09.400
<v Speaker 3>absolutely lavish spread for the reception. No expense has been spared.

0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:12.600
<v Speaker 3>You're very honored to be involved in this society wedding,

0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:15.520
<v Speaker 3>and you take it seriously. You scan the crowd and

0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:21.200
<v Speaker 3>you see the cream of the crop, a member of parliament, doctors, lawyers, bankers, landowners,

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.200
<v Speaker 3>cattle barns. You get the nod from the staff that

0:49:24.320 --> 0:49:27.680
<v Speaker 3>the ceremony can begin. You can clear your throat and

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:31.239
<v Speaker 3>the groom appears. My goodness, he is a small man,

0:49:31.800 --> 0:49:33.719
<v Speaker 3>but they're in love. You figure, and there's a lid

0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:36.759
<v Speaker 3>to every pot. The bride walks down the aisle in

0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:40.360
<v Speaker 3>a gorgeous cream colored silk dress, her attendants all in

0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.440
<v Speaker 3>embroidered gowns. You look to the mother of the bride.

0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:47.280
<v Speaker 3>She seems uneasy. You hope there isn't a pregnancy involved.

0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:54.000
<v Speaker 3>That would be messy. Well, don't worry, reverend, there certainly isn't. So.

0:49:54.600 --> 0:49:56.439
<v Speaker 2>Percy and NeSSI are wed.

0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:01.840
<v Speaker 3>They get married. What the reception nuts? The local paper

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:06.120
<v Speaker 3>described it as quote, this was no Arcadian repast, but

0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:09.439
<v Speaker 3>a feast to suit the palette of the epicure washed

0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:13.279
<v Speaker 3>down with the sparkling vintage of Rome Champagne, which had

0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:16.879
<v Speaker 3>been nine years in the cellar. Wow. Yeah, so there

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 3>were oh gosh, there were toasts after toast, exquisite cake frivolity.

0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:25.720
<v Speaker 3>The place was packed to the gills with wedding gifts.

0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh man.

0:50:27.600 --> 0:50:30.840
<v Speaker 3>They went outside to take photos and Percy stalled so

0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:34.120
<v Speaker 3>much that the light faded and they couldn't get the

0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:36.600
<v Speaker 3>They couldn't capture the pictures. There are no photos of

0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:37.040
<v Speaker 3>the wedding.

0:50:37.760 --> 0:50:38.399
<v Speaker 2>Really, huh.

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.760
<v Speaker 3>They danced, They sang until midnight, but then the couple

0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:45.919
<v Speaker 3>they said they were going to postpone their honeymoon until later,

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:48.600
<v Speaker 3>so they didn't ride off in a carriage together with

0:50:48.719 --> 0:50:53.080
<v Speaker 3>cans trailing behind. Instead, Percy slept in the same room

0:50:53.120 --> 0:50:57.880
<v Speaker 3>as his groomsmen, which everyone found odd, including the groomsmen. Like,

0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:00.279
<v Speaker 3>when it came time to undress, Percy just pulled his

0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:04.880
<v Speaker 3>pajamas over his suit. What Yeah, with his men. He

0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:06.440
<v Speaker 3>did not go off with the bride.

0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I got that part. I'm working on that one.

0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Even with the people who he's supposed to like, not

0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:13.600
<v Speaker 2>be with, he's with them, the groomsmen, and then he's like,

0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:14.640
<v Speaker 2>all right, let's go to bed.

0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:16.680
<v Speaker 3>Guys, puts pajamas over his suit.

0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Over his wedding suit. Yeah, so he's adding clothing to.

0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Go to back. Rumors started to swirl, mainly that Percy

0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:27.960
<v Speaker 3>was a con artist, but also that Percy may not

0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:28.960
<v Speaker 3>actually be a man.

0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:31.799
<v Speaker 2>A few things. Percy probably not a man. Percy.

0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's just all this like midnight chatter, and I

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.040
<v Speaker 3>just imagine people running from room to room and like

0:51:38.120 --> 0:51:40.880
<v Speaker 3>these huddled like fevered conversations about stuff.

0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:42.080
<v Speaker 2>British Comedy of Manners.

0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:44.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh. So the morning after the wedding, the

0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:48.000
<v Speaker 3>bride's parents and like some of their friends confront Percy

0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:49.600
<v Speaker 3>about his finance at breakfast.

0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, they call him into a room. They're like, you

0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:56.839
<v Speaker 3>need it if you don't pay up. At this point,

0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:59.920
<v Speaker 3>they're not accusing of anything other oh, taking gotta pay

0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:01.880
<v Speaker 3>for your family. You don't pay up, there will be

0:52:02.000 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 3>no honeymoon, and NeSSI will be your wife in name only.

0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:08.840
<v Speaker 3>You don't get to you don't get to consummate this marriage.

0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Okay that's what he's saying.

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:15.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so they're like, you have to pay this back,

0:52:15.560 --> 0:52:18.279
<v Speaker 3>and he's kind of hemming, hunging, and then someone called

0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:22.560
<v Speaker 3>the cops in dun Eden. They show up, they recognize

0:52:22.800 --> 0:52:28.640
<v Speaker 3>Percy as Amy Resta. On the spot, Nessi's Dad supposedly said, quote,

0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:33.000
<v Speaker 3>well it might have been worse. A great attitude to have.

0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:36.760
<v Speaker 3>I think that this is probably worse for most people.

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:38.399
<v Speaker 3>You know, it might have been no one died.

0:52:38.600 --> 0:52:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there you go, no one got eaten by crocodile.

0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:44.799
<v Speaker 3>Exactly. So Amy she gets taken back to dun Eden.

0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:48.000
<v Speaker 3>This is how the Darling Downs Gazette wrote about it,

0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:54.520
<v Speaker 3>Darling quote. An extraordinary chapter in a most extraordinary career

0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:57.919
<v Speaker 3>was brought to a close at midday yesterday when Amy Bach,

0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:01.239
<v Speaker 3>a petit woman of between forty and forty nine years

0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:04.000
<v Speaker 3>of age, was lodged in the cells at the Dunedin

0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:07.880
<v Speaker 3>Police Station. The story of her most recent escapade furnishes

0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:11.360
<v Speaker 3>more sensation than the average novel, and it has the

0:53:11.520 --> 0:53:14.640
<v Speaker 3>added charm of being taken from real life and of

0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:17.080
<v Speaker 3>having been enacted in our very midst.

0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:20.160
<v Speaker 2>What do you think Percy and Nessie talked about during

0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:23.160
<v Speaker 2>the courting time? I you know, like were they talking

0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 2>about like the Darby?

0:53:24.680 --> 0:53:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Like who know? I mean apparently he was very respectful

0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:28.880
<v Speaker 3>and imagine all that.

0:53:28.960 --> 0:53:30.919
<v Speaker 2>I figure he wasn't like pushing to kiss her cheek

0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:31.279
<v Speaker 2>or anything.

0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:34.319
<v Speaker 3>But I mean, this is what the Wodonga Express had

0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:38.000
<v Speaker 3>to say okay please as she walked from the station

0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:41.000
<v Speaker 3>to the cell. People knowing nothing of her could not

0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:44.719
<v Speaker 3>have guessed her true sex. Neatly and fashionably dressed in

0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:48.360
<v Speaker 3>bridegroom gray, her hands hidden in a light gray overcoat,

0:53:48.719 --> 0:53:51.839
<v Speaker 3>a shapely hat set jauntily on a close cropped head,

0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:55.799
<v Speaker 3>her stride firm and long and masculine. She looked all

0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:58.560
<v Speaker 3>she intended to be a well educated, well to do

0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:01.759
<v Speaker 3>young man. Her figure is that of a man, and

0:54:01.920 --> 0:54:05.280
<v Speaker 3>that is stated to be its natural shape. Her features

0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:09.120
<v Speaker 3>are regular, attractive, dark. It is interesting to mention that

0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:12.200
<v Speaker 3>she was measured and suited at the New Zealand clothing

0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:15.680
<v Speaker 3>factory and that no one suspected anything out of the way.

0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:19.799
<v Speaker 3>Bach is now awaiting trial on three charges of false pretenses,

0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:22.759
<v Speaker 3>including one of alleging to the Registrar of Marriages that

0:54:22.880 --> 0:54:23.560
<v Speaker 3>she was a man.

0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:25.160
<v Speaker 2>So she fooled a tailor.

0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:29.920
<v Speaker 3>She fooled a tailor. That's pretty incredible. So Amy pleads

0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:33.440
<v Speaker 3>guilty to all the charges. She got sentenced to two

0:54:33.520 --> 0:54:36.160
<v Speaker 3>years in prison with hard labor and was declared a

0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:37.760
<v Speaker 3>quote habitual criminal.

0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:40.040
<v Speaker 2>That serious. That's serious.

0:54:40.040 --> 0:54:41.439
<v Speaker 3>That goes on your permit record.

0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:43.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that means like you're not going to be

0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:44.839
<v Speaker 2>getting the nice treatment in prison.

0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and like you really don't. They don't see any

0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:53.400
<v Speaker 3>kind of like future, you knowbilitation. Yeah, this was her

0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:57.960
<v Speaker 3>thirteenth conviction, were Yeah, and she'd been at this point

0:54:58.080 --> 0:55:00.759
<v Speaker 3>she had been sentenced over the years, just sixteen years

0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 3>in prison, more than sixteen years. So June seventeenth, nineteen

0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:07.840
<v Speaker 3>oh nine, poor NeSSI goes in, applies for and receives

0:55:07.920 --> 0:55:11.279
<v Speaker 3>an annulment to her marriage. Nessie went on to marry

0:55:11.320 --> 0:55:13.239
<v Speaker 3>a widower the next year. He was a little bit

0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:17.000
<v Speaker 3>significantly older. Yeah, when he passed away, she married a

0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:18.360
<v Speaker 3>guy she'd known since childhood.

0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Finally, that's probably a good choice.

0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's some happy resume. The papers had a field

0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:26.920
<v Speaker 3>day with this story, which must have been devastating to

0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Nessie and her family. Sure, yeah, so humiliating. A reporter

0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:37.400
<v Speaker 3>named Robert William Robson. He wrote a four part serialized pamphlet.

0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Robert William Robson, So the son of Rob Robert, the son.

0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Of Rob Bob Bill Bobson. So papers they ran all

0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:48.520
<v Speaker 3>sorts of stories. There are all these stories that went

0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:50.719
<v Speaker 3>out on the wire about women who dressed his men

0:55:51.000 --> 0:55:53.400
<v Speaker 3>and like through history and like just.

0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:55.759
<v Speaker 2>All these examples became like a learning point for them.

0:55:55.840 --> 0:55:56.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess.

0:55:56.239 --> 0:56:00.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, postcards were sold, songs and poems were written. Oh god,

0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:03.320
<v Speaker 3>all the stuff from the wedding had to either go

0:56:03.480 --> 0:56:05.440
<v Speaker 3>back to the merchants or was auctioned off.

0:56:05.520 --> 0:56:07.839
<v Speaker 2>Does she stay a folk hero at this point? Oh yeah,

0:56:07.960 --> 0:56:10.600
<v Speaker 2>so people are still singing laudatory songs like about her

0:56:10.640 --> 0:56:11.280
<v Speaker 2>getting over.

0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.719
<v Speaker 3>But both way, you'll see it cuts both ways, so

0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:18.920
<v Speaker 3>they have to auction this stuff off. Huge events like

0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 3>crammed into all these The public just crammed into the

0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:25.839
<v Speaker 3>halls to witness the imagine. The Prime Minister at the time,

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.279
<v Speaker 3>Joseph Ward, called his rival a liar by calling him

0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:33.319
<v Speaker 3>amy Bach. Oh wow, someone named a racehorse amy Bach,

0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:36.799
<v Speaker 3>which made for great difficulty for me in sorting through

0:56:36.880 --> 0:56:42.360
<v Speaker 3>search results on newspapers because I'm getting great news or

0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:45.120
<v Speaker 3>like horse race results, and like amy Bach came in

0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:50.960
<v Speaker 3>the oh oh, that's a horse. February of nineteen twelve,

0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:53.640
<v Speaker 3>she gets out on probation. She got a job at

0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:56.120
<v Speaker 3>a retirement home, and she got another job as a maid.

0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:59.279
<v Speaker 3>She worked as a teacher's assistant, and she kind of

0:56:59.320 --> 0:57:03.640
<v Speaker 3>like coordinated plays and musical recitals. She was like crafting

0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:04.960
<v Speaker 3>a real life for herself at.

0:57:04.920 --> 0:57:07.719
<v Speaker 2>This point, able to deal with reality this point.

0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:11.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, November sixteenth, nineteen fourteen, she got married for real.

0:57:11.760 --> 0:57:14.319
<v Speaker 3>This time she tied the knot with a fellow named

0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Charles Christofferson. And then because she got married, she got

0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:21.960
<v Speaker 3>unconditional discharge from her probation.

0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Really good, Yeah, that's how that worked.

0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:26.280
<v Speaker 3>That's how that works. Then she still had a lot

0:57:26.360 --> 0:57:28.680
<v Speaker 3>of debt and that put a strain on her marriage.

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:32.040
<v Speaker 3>They divorced after just a year together, but she kept

0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:37.720
<v Speaker 3>his last name, which is Handy. In nineteen seventeen, she

0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:42.920
<v Speaker 3>borrowed fifteen pounds from a local flax mill manager to

0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:48.120
<v Speaker 3>purchase a piano. She bocked him, of course, yeah, they

0:57:48.760 --> 0:57:50.960
<v Speaker 3>She didn't pay them back, had no way to do so.

0:57:51.320 --> 0:57:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Her lawyer managed to get her a fine instead of

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.120
<v Speaker 3>jail time, So ten pounds plus court costs and out

0:57:57.200 --> 0:58:00.000
<v Speaker 3>the door. She really did start to get her life.

0:58:00.600 --> 0:58:06.000
<v Speaker 3>She lived a quiet life in Mocow in the North Island,

0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:09.480
<v Speaker 3>New Zealand. She played music, was like a strong part

0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:13.000
<v Speaker 3>of the community, but she had a wandering soul. She

0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 3>hooked back up with the Salvation Army there and she

0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:18.320
<v Speaker 3>worked as a cook in their kitchen. But she couldn't

0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:21.600
<v Speaker 3>help herself. Remember, in nineteen thirty one, when she was

0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:24.600
<v Speaker 3>in her seventies, she got busted for another of her

0:58:24.640 --> 0:58:27.640
<v Speaker 3>loan scams. She had a bunch of aliases at this point.

0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:31.360
<v Speaker 3>She pleaded guilty on all charges, got a two year probation.

0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:34.920
<v Speaker 3>I need to feel yeah, conditional on her residence at

0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:38.240
<v Speaker 3>the Salvation Army Home, Sally. It looks like that was

0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:42.600
<v Speaker 3>her last boxing. August twenty ninth, nineteen forty three, she

0:58:42.800 --> 0:58:46.480
<v Speaker 3>passed away in Bombay, south of Auckland. She was recorded

0:58:46.560 --> 0:58:49.520
<v Speaker 3>as Amy Marion Christofferson, aged eighty.

0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Which is not exactly right whatever, and.

0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:56.000
<v Speaker 3>She was buried in an unmarked grave, oh Popper's grave. Yeah,

0:58:56.360 --> 0:59:00.560
<v Speaker 3>Jenny Copeland. That ends her biography of me Bak with

0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:03.080
<v Speaker 3>this passage, which I will use as my takeaway. Thank

0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:07.880
<v Speaker 3>you for asking quote. So was she mad, bad, a

0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:12.200
<v Speaker 3>pathological liar, a kleptomaniac, or a lesbian? Or did Amy

0:59:12.280 --> 0:59:15.200
<v Speaker 3>simply reject many of the social conventions of her time?

0:59:15.840 --> 0:59:19.320
<v Speaker 3>If anything, an ability to adapt, to perform, and to

0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:23.160
<v Speaker 3>rise above the mundane circumstances of daily life, whether in

0:59:23.320 --> 0:59:26.840
<v Speaker 3>fantasy or in productive and artistic endeavor was in Amy's

0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:31.280
<v Speaker 3>blood above all else. She was the consummate performer and entertainer,

0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:35.240
<v Speaker 3>whatever labels may be ascribed to her, and whatever pronouncements

0:59:35.320 --> 0:59:39.160
<v Speaker 3>made about the underlying causes and motivations for her exploits.

0:59:39.760 --> 0:59:43.400
<v Speaker 3>Amy Bach was and remains a bit of a hard case.

0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that dude Fred Damara heard this story

0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:49.920
<v Speaker 2>about he pretended to a doctor and ended up saving

0:59:50.120 --> 0:59:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the live on this ship in Japan and World War two?

0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Hand a lot of same compulsive tendency, but doesn't do

0:59:56.920 --> 1:00:00.760
<v Speaker 2>it to really help himself, only to ingratiate him with others.

1:00:00.960 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't seem to have the need to ingratiate herself.

1:00:03.080 --> 1:00:04.800
<v Speaker 2>It seems to be even more earnest where she's just

1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:07.560
<v Speaker 2>trying to help people. But it's so wild to have

1:00:07.960 --> 1:00:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the compulsion to crime to help others. And it's like,

1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:14.080
<v Speaker 2>if you could just just pause just that one thought,

1:00:14.120 --> 1:00:16.840
<v Speaker 2>you could actually then help others. Yeah, exactly, Like I'm

1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:18.720
<v Speaker 2>gonna cut right to the chase and steal it. I'm

1:00:18.760 --> 1:00:20.440
<v Speaker 2>gonna give it to them, And I'm like, I respect

1:00:20.480 --> 1:00:20.960
<v Speaker 2>your conviction.

1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:24.200
<v Speaker 3>It must have been thrilling. No, No, like it, and

1:00:24.280 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 3>at some point you figure, like, what what more do

1:00:27.680 --> 1:00:29.640
<v Speaker 3>you want out of life? If she sees that, like

1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:33.600
<v Speaker 3>there's a hard ceiling for her as just a governess

1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:35.320
<v Speaker 3>for the rest of her life, for a housekeeper or

1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:37.880
<v Speaker 3>someone's wife, and then just to be like, I can

1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:41.439
<v Speaker 3>live this exciting, weird, artatistic life.

1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I've often looked back, you know, as a black man. Now,

1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:45.800
<v Speaker 2>when I look back in the past, there's not a

1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:48.080
<v Speaker 2>lot of places from my imagination to rome and go,

1:00:48.120 --> 1:00:49.680
<v Speaker 2>oh I do this, I do that. It's more like

1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I'd be limited to this. I'd be limited to that.

1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I often relate to women like her in the position

1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:57.200
<v Speaker 2>where her horizons were foreshortened. So but and I also

1:00:57.560 --> 1:00:59.120
<v Speaker 2>got to say that I imagine I don't know what

1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I would have done, but I imagine if I was

1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:03.080
<v Speaker 2>in someplace like New Zealand, I definitely would have done

1:01:03.120 --> 1:01:04.800
<v Speaker 2>what she did. But she's like, you do a scam

1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:06.800
<v Speaker 2>trying not to hurt anybody wants to hurt, You back

1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:08.280
<v Speaker 2>too hard and you go to a new town. Yes,

1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.160
<v Speaker 2>keep doing that until life ends, because I think that's

1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:12.960
<v Speaker 2>what I would have to do back then, because you

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:15.200
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be allowed to be a full person, So why

1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:17.560
<v Speaker 2>not at least cheat enough of you can get like

1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:20.200
<v Speaker 2>that three quarter whatever you can by cheating otherwise, I

1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:22.640
<v Speaker 2>mean why and also to help with their rules. The

1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:25.320
<v Speaker 2>rules are obviously bunk anyway. I don't mean you shouldn't

1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:27.080
<v Speaker 2>hurt anybody, but if you can scam a couple of

1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:31.000
<v Speaker 2>people at a credit risk, I just I love them.

1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:33.280
<v Speaker 3>Mad. I wish I knew more about what she.

1:01:33.600 --> 1:01:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Was like on the day to day. Yeah. Same. She

1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:41.120
<v Speaker 2>seemed like she was somewhat charming. Yeah, a good person, personable, smart, curious.

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:41.880
<v Speaker 2>That's fun.

1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:45.400
<v Speaker 3>She had to be super fun. You know what I

1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:46.000
<v Speaker 3>need right now?

1:01:46.080 --> 1:01:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Though? What's that talk back?

1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I know somebody wholloke you up with that? Okay, yeah,

1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:54.040
<v Speaker 2>produce a D produce a D talk back.

1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:09.200
<v Speaker 3>I love you, Hi, guys. I was just listening to

1:02:09.320 --> 1:02:12.880
<v Speaker 3>the episode about the Irish Relic theft. And here is

1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:14.240
<v Speaker 3>my ridiculous takeaway.

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Give me a.

1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Break, give me a break, break me off a piece

1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:23.720
<v Speaker 3>of that Saint Bridge. I'll show myself up. You guys

1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:33.600
<v Speaker 3>are awesome. Yeah, okay, Uh, that's it for today. You

1:02:33.680 --> 1:02:36.080
<v Speaker 3>can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. There's

1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:40.200
<v Speaker 3>also Ridiculous Crime on Twitter, at Instagram, email Ridiculous Crime

1:02:40.200 --> 1:02:43.880
<v Speaker 3>at gmail dot com, leave it talkback on the iheartapp.

1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Whatever you do, reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1:02:51.520 --> 1:02:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Dutton and Zarah Burnett, produced and edited by Dave Kusten,

1:02:55.560 --> 1:02:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Patriarch of the Redwood Family, starring Annalise Rutger as Judith.

1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:04.000
<v Speaker 3>Research is by special assistant to Mister Redwood, Marissa Brown

1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:08.439
<v Speaker 3>and Nessi's eighteenth Bridesmaid Andrea Song Sharpened Tear. The theme

1:03:08.560 --> 1:03:11.760
<v Speaker 3>song is by Goible Furniture Store proprietor Thomas Lee and

1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:16.120
<v Speaker 3>Oblivious Taylor Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1:03:16.200 --> 1:03:20.120
<v Speaker 3>five hundred guests here and makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:24.640
<v Speaker 3>Executive producers are Salvation Army recruiter Ben Bollen and Phony

1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:26.840
<v Speaker 3>Wedding cake decorator Noel Brown.

1:03:31.840 --> 1:03:39.160
<v Speaker 1>We Dickus Clime Say It One More Timequus Crime. Ridiculous

1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:42.160
<v Speaker 1>Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more Podcasts. My

1:03:42.240 --> 1:03:45.600
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1:03:45.640 --> 1:03:47.080
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