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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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Speaker 2: Hey Elizabeth, what's up girl?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You do let them shoes?

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much?

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Speaker 2: Is that real penguin?

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Speaker 3: It's clear leather. I know that grosses you out.

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Speaker 2: When every time I thought I'd get to the penguin,

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Speaker 2: he came back faster. Cle Uh.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's ridiculous aside from clear leather? I do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought. I saw this headline and I thought

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Speaker 2: of you, man graduates forty one years after being denied

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Speaker 2: ceremony by parrot problem. You thought of me. Yes, you

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Speaker 2: seem like somebody'd have a parrot problem, probably have a Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this guy, uh, he's he's a brit you know,

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Speaker 2: because why not? He was supposed to graduate in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty three, right, But he had a roommate who had

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Speaker 2: a parrot, and this guy he left his parrot and supervised,

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Speaker 2: and the parrot apparently had quote free run of their

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Speaker 2: university accommodation. Was said to have wrecked the place. Oh wow,

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Speaker 2: he was a party, hardy parrot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the apparently the rue roommate took off and they

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Speaker 2: left the non parrot having roommate with just the mess

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Speaker 2: and so the parrot in the previous roommate bounced housing.

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Speaker 2: They came along, they're like, you owe us sixty four

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Speaker 2: pounds for the parrot damage. He's like, I refuse to pay.

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Speaker 2: I stand on principle. And then they're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well you're not going to get your degree. So they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't let him walk or get his degree till he paid.

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Speaker 2: He refused. Finally, forty one years later, the university he's

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Speaker 2: decided to waive the bill and they allowed this guy

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Speaker 2: to walk his graduation and he walked alongside his youngest son,

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Speaker 2: who also graduated and completed a biology degree. So this

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Speaker 2: guy who's sixty two gets to walk along with his

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Speaker 2: twenty one year old son. And he viewed the unpaid

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Speaker 2: bill as quote an ultra long term interest free loan,

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Speaker 2: son that would have been amazing. This is the guy

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Speaker 2: he till he looked like principle and also might have

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Speaker 2: a roommate with a parrot problem.

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Speaker 3: God, what a nightmare. You're in a dorm room brings

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Speaker 3: a parrot?

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Speaker 2: Wait, what's wrong with that?

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Speaker 3: Just so and crapping and yeah.

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Speaker 2: Totally, and also the you know what, the thing about

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Speaker 2: parents is often they'll pick at their bars of their

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Speaker 2: cage to make those dong sound. They'll drive you.

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Speaker 3: Insane exactly, That's what I'm saying. No, that's ridiculous. Do

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Speaker 3: you know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I know, but I think you do conning.

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Speaker 3: Over and over and over and getting caught over and

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Speaker 3: over and over. This is ridiculous crime A podcast about

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Speaker 3: absurd and outrageous capers, hets and cons. It's always ninety

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Speaker 3: nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Oh you damn right.

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Speaker 3: I think I talked to Dave recently about pathological liars.

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Speaker 2: You stopped talking to me outside of the show. I did.

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Speaker 3: See, and that's you being a pathological liar. It's the

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Speaker 3: people who suffer from pseudologica.

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Speaker 2: Fantastica is the we prefer fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fantastics. I've known an actual cological liar. It was wild.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They actually cannot stop himself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And he he claimed.

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Speaker 3: To be descended from royalty, not like in the immediate

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Speaker 3: not going back a million.

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Speaker 2: Generations, dad was the king. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Basically he said he was an army fighter pilot, and

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Speaker 3: he said he was a karate.

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Speaker 4: Master, heate master, and his physique was not cut out

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Speaker 4: for either.

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Speaker 3: He had all sorts of claims that put him usually

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Speaker 3: like adjacent to greatness, and some of the claims were

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Speaker 3: super mundane and irrelevant, like the lies added nothing got

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Speaker 3: him nowhere, totally pointless. Like you said, he couldn't help it,

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Speaker 3: could not help it. And that's the thing about pathological liars.

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Speaker 3: They can't help. But it's compulsive. They don't know why

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Speaker 3: they do what they do. And now, okay, so lying,

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Speaker 3: lying is a big part of crime, serens. Yes, and

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Speaker 3: it's a big part of getting away with crime.

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Speaker 2: It helps if you're good at it.

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Speaker 3: It's the main component of con artistry.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think. So you have to lie.

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Speaker 3: So pathological liars aren't the best for it because.

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Speaker 2: They don't know they're lying.

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Speaker 3: They don't know they're lying. They show they exhibit stress

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Speaker 3: and guilt from the lies because they I mean, they

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Speaker 3: know they're lying.

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Speaker 2: It's not that they don't yes, I'm sorry, I'm saying

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Speaker 2: it's not in control of the life.

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Speaker 3: They're not in control exactly, so they know they're lying,

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Speaker 3: but it stresses about It's not like psychopaths. They feel nothing.

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Speaker 3: They just like lie like they breathe. So they have

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Speaker 3: tells and remarks, but they lie easily, so conning can

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Speaker 3: be natural if they have that inclination. Now, we've also

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Speaker 3: talked about the robin Hoods of the world, the folk

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Speaker 3: heroes who commit crimes for the benefits of other, generally

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Speaker 3: for the less fortunate, and that's that's usually theft. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we haven't had a robin Hood con artist.

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Speaker 2: No, not that I can think of till look at

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Speaker 2: you find your own.

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Speaker 3: Lanes, Saren, I have a robin Hood con artist.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: And it gets better. The con is from New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: somewhere we haven't really showcased. Yes, the kiwis and the

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Speaker 3: con is a woman. I love this, an eccentric woman. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that's it's great, exactly, Saren. I want you to meet

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Speaker 3: Amy Bach.

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Speaker 2: Oh Amy, what's that?

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Speaker 3: She was born in eighteen fifty nine, So I'm sorry, you're.

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Speaker 2: Little I missed my shot. Yeah, I can just live

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Speaker 2: in her shadow.

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Speaker 3: Which but being born in eighteen fifty nine means that

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Speaker 3: she could do a lot of what she did. Oh, now,

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Speaker 3: a digital footprint would have like immediately prevented.

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Speaker 2: A lot of her hyghen Oh, I mean you're you're

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Speaker 2: you're just get into like getting telegraph lines in your

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Speaker 2: rural they don't probably don't have them.

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Speaker 3: There we are eighteen fifty nine location Tasmania. Oh right,

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Speaker 3: Hobart to be exactly. Okay, so that's where she's born. Yes,

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Speaker 3: she's born in Tasmania. She's descended from convicts sent over

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Speaker 3: from the UK as who had a day for white

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Speaker 3: folks in those days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She had a really interesting family. Her dad was an

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Speaker 3: artist and photographer. Do you know what a cart divisit is?

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Speaker 3: It's like like.

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Speaker 2: A postcard letter of vision, like little photo cards.

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Speaker 3: And Victorian folks traded of themselves like socially, like when

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Speaker 3: you're a kid and you get school photos, the wallet

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Speaker 3: size ones. It's like that. And they were kind of

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Speaker 3: like they're super popular in Europe. Calling in eighteen fifty Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like a calling card, except for it had a picture.

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Speaker 2: I had a picture on it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And would you like show up at someone's house and

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Speaker 2: they give them one of these, like, oh, tell them

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Speaker 2: I was here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, and so or they would trade them at

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Speaker 3: parties like.

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Speaker 2: Oh like little trading cards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Alfred bach Amy's dad is the one who brought

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Speaker 3: the concept to Australia. So he heard about it and

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Speaker 3: he figured they would dig it there and they did,

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Speaker 3: got huge.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny.

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Speaker 3: So the Bach family they moved from Hobart to Victoria, Okay, area.

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Speaker 2: Century selfies and social media wrapped up into one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and like Baseball Trading card, eighteen sixty seven

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Speaker 3: is when they moved. And a few years later.

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Speaker 2: So she's eight Okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Box's mom had worsening, like physical and psychiatric issues.

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Speaker 3: The breaking point was when she started to believe that

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Speaker 3: she was Lady Macbeth.

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Speaker 2: Ah like summer.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she gets sent off to an asylum. Amy never sees.

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Speaker 2: Her, she never recovers her non Macbeth.

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Speaker 3: No, this woman Jenny Coleman, she wrote a book called.

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Speaker 2: What a Bizarre One to Think You Are? You know,

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Speaker 2: often people could pick characters from myths, legend, religion.

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Speaker 4: Jesus, notable material exactly brown character like that's in mistake,

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Speaker 4: you know, they're made up, Like it's not like Napoleon

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Speaker 4: Energus were.

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Speaker 3: Like she's trapped in this play, the Scottish play. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So Jenny Coleman, she's this author of Mad or Bad,

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Speaker 3: The Life and Exploits of Amy Bach. So it's like

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Speaker 3: that's mad, that's like the book on she said quote.

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Speaker 3: Amy's mother would have very manic episodes and then episodes

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Speaker 3: of melancolia. So probably what we think of now as

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Speaker 3: manic depressive or bipolar disorder.

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Speaker 2: Could you also be borderline anything? I try to guess.

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Speaker 3: I know. Okay, so but she gets sent off. Amy

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Speaker 3: is just ten years old and her mom's not around.

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Speaker 3: She starts acting out of course, but not like we've

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Speaker 3: seen another young criminals, no fires, no breaking into a

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Speaker 3: place and stealing guns and furs. One time she went

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Speaker 3: out and bought a load of books under her dad's name.

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Speaker 2: That's like you, if you were, And then she went.

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Speaker 3: Out and gave them away to random people and.

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Speaker 2: Definitely like, yes, needy readers.

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Speaker 3: I thought I saw this book and thought of you.

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Speaker 3: She was not some like recluse weirdo. She was smart

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Speaker 3: and popular and active, and she had times when she

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Speaker 3: could be quiet and like maybe a little absent minded,

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Speaker 3: but nothing too out of the ordinary. She was a

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Speaker 3: really talented musician. She played the piano, great horse rider.

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Speaker 3: Oh loved the stage. Don't worry, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: go back to quoting this statue. We're not going back

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying that she was a good actor. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: she'd even play boys parts. She was versatile. So when

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Speaker 3: she was about seventeen, eighteen seventy six, she goes off

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Speaker 3: to boarding school in Melbourne. Two years later she got

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Speaker 3: a job as a teacher. She wanted to make some

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Speaker 3: money help out the family. Her dad got her a

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Speaker 3: gig as the only teacher at a rural school in Gippsland.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, Gippsland.

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Speaker 3: Sally exactly, Yes, Maryvale.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad we've got that squeared away.

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Speaker 3: Super rural areas Australia, right, okay, yeah, yeah, And like

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Speaker 3: Southeast Australia, the East, very very rural, a lot of

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Speaker 3: logging and like there's cattle ranching out there. It's absolutely

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Speaker 3: beautiful country, very temperate climate.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that the Gold Coast Southeast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like straight up in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 3: Back then, and she was not a model employee. That's

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Speaker 3: the only school teacher.

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Speaker 2: She's the local school marm.

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Speaker 3: At twenty she called out sick all the time, good

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Speaker 3: for her all the time? Yeah, I mean you get

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Speaker 3: their sick time music quiet quitting nineteen, she she always

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Speaker 3: had a reason why she couldn't come in. It was

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Speaker 3: always coming up with something. And at the same time,

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Speaker 3: she kept getting more and more children in her classroom,

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Speaker 3: Like more students were.

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Speaker 2: Showing up, so she's a good teacher. More people are

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Speaker 2: moving around.

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Speaker 3: More students she had, the more she got paid. Oh

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Speaker 3: and so because she's the only teacher in this little

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Speaker 3: schoolhouse in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense.

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Speaker 3: But then the inspectors showed up and she had one

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Speaker 3: been juicing up her role.

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Speaker 2: But it's four kids, so.

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Speaker 3: That she inflated the attendance and the registration information to

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Speaker 3: make should make more money.

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Speaker 2: Superintendent wants to see the school that's popping. We got a.

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Speaker 3: School the middle employ The employment numbers aren't matching up

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Speaker 3: in the community.

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Speaker 2: It's only eleven working adults.

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Speaker 3: The people in the community, they trusted her. She was

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Speaker 3: the school teacher out there in the wilderness. And even

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Speaker 3: if she was doctoring the roll books, she still struggled.

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Speaker 2: Like what was she spending her money.

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Speaker 3: She was in a lot of debt. She would lie

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Speaker 3: about broken windows at the school to get extra money,

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Speaker 3: Like she'd call up wire write a letter like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: all the windows broke, and he'd like, here's some money

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Speaker 3: to get him fixed. She's like, hey, she bought stuff

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Speaker 3: from the local shops on credit and never paid it

240
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Speaker 3: back to work. And there was the weird one. And I've

241
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Speaker 3: like done a lot of investigations to figure out what

242
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 3: this is. One time she went around to all the

243
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 3: undertakers in town and she ordered coffins, all sizes, and

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Speaker 3: then she had them delivered multiple coffins to one family

245
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Speaker 3: in the area. Oh God, I have no idea, Watching

246
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,280
Speaker 3: have no idea what the family thought, like, is this

247
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Speaker 3: a threat?

248
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Speaker 2: Is a kindness? That's the weirdest threats?

249
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Speaker 3: So weird. She did this sort of thing a lot,

250
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Speaker 3: just not with coffins.

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Speaker 4: A local newspapers to families.

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Speaker 3: Quote she had a perfect mania for what she called shopping,

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Speaker 3: which consisted of ordering goods she did not require and

254
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Speaker 3: could not pay for on all hands. Astonishment is expressed

255
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Speaker 3: that the girl had thus far contrived to keep out

256
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Speaker 3: of the lunatic asylum of which her mother was a

257
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Speaker 3: confiney for many years. Much sympathy has been felt for

258
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,760
Speaker 3: miss Box, as her mistake is believed to have been

259
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 3: caused more by an hereditary misfortune than a criminal intent.

260
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Speaker 3: So she's going around shopping and she just gives it

261
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,679
Speaker 3: all away. Everything she takes, she gives away. She tried

262
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 3: to stall out her creditors. She asked for more time

263
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 3: to pay him back. In two of the letters that

264
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,599
Speaker 3: she wrote, she signed them as ethel Bach, which was

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Speaker 3: her sister's name, and in those letters she told them

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Speaker 3: that Amy was dead. I can't pay you back because

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Speaker 3: she said, my mom does that to telemarketers all the time,

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Speaker 3: like when they call and they ask for her, she

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Speaker 3: very somberly tells them that she's dead, not like oh,

270
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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm dead. She's like, oh, it's very sad

271
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Speaker 3: she passed away. It was a terrible strategy. And she'll

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Speaker 3: just be like, I am but the housekeeper. She makes

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Speaker 3: it like it's some like vast like Bruce Wayne mansion.

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Speaker 3: I am just the housekeeper.

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Speaker 2: She ran into a thresher on the highway.

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Speaker 3: Or she answers they ask for her, and she's like yeah,

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Speaker 3: hang on, and then she just sets the phone down

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Speaker 3: and goes about her day. Everyone, yeah, may have eighteen

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Speaker 3: eighty four. It all starts to catch up with Amy Bach,

280
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Speaker 3: like what if that were the extent of her crimes?

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Speaker 3: Like the end, No, it's not, no, we're at the

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Speaker 3: very beginning. So May of eighteen eighty four, she gets arrested,

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Speaker 3: charged with abdec Yeah, yeah, charged with obtaining goods by

284
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Speaker 3: way of false pretext. She was making nine pounds a month,

285
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 3: but she was spending way more than Yeah, And her

286
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 3: lawyer said she wasn't responsible for her conduct because quote

287
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 3: insanity exists in her family on the side of the

288
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 3: mother who died many years ago in a Tasmanian lunatic asylum,

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00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 3: which is like, that's a sentence. But I mean, she

290
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 3: gets all this sympathy, and she's constantly engendering sympathy, either

291
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 3: because she can be trusted because she's the school teacher

292
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Speaker 3: in town, or she has this sad story. The Gypsuland

293
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: Times reported that Bach was quote always strange in her

294
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Speaker 3: manner from quite earliest childhood and most patient of restraint,

295
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 3: indeed at times quite uncontrollable, which is like, doesn't really

296
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Speaker 3: jive with what we've heard from others.

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00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly.

298
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 3: So they had the issue there that we had all

299
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 3: over the world, I think at the time, with newspapers

300
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 3: just writing what sounded good, hmm, what worked.

301
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: And also I imagine sometimes like some of these people

302
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 2: are copying a story off the wire and then just

303
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 2: want to juice it up. Yeah, some people are writing

304
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 2: the start and like, oh why not just I'm in

305
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,840
Speaker 2: a bad mood take a shot at this persactly exactly.

306
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Speaker 3: And because they thought she wasn't right in the head

307
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 3: and that she couldn't be accountable for the things she did,

308
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Speaker 3: she wound up getting released and the charges were dropped.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, A pity on her.

310
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Speaker 3: She did have to promise to be on her best behavior,

311
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 3: cross your heart, no take back for a whole year,

312
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 3: which she did, which I wonder if that's the best

313
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Speaker 3: solution because the court just said she didn't know what

314
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Speaker 3: she was doing. Yeah, and now they make her pledge

315
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Speaker 3: to not do it anymore.

316
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Speaker 2: But she doesn't know what that is.

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Speaker 3: Whatever she agreed because she's clever.

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Speaker 2: Saren she smart? She's committed.

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Speaker 3: Her mom had passed away in the in the asylum

320
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 3: not long after they checked her in there. That happened

321
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 3: to my great great grandmother. I go an asylum and

322
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 3: then didn't make it very long after. I think that

323
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 3: happened to a lot of women.

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Speaker 2: I think so too, No, I mean I have women

325
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Speaker 2: in my family.

326
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Speaker 3: That's another crime for another day.

327
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Speaker 2: It's kind of a bummer. Yeah.

328
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 3: So Amy's dad remarried. The gal was only a year

329
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 3: older than Amy. Oh no, that's comfortable. So the dad

330
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 3: and his new bride they moved to New Zealand and

331
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Speaker 3: they begged they have rock.

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Speaker 2: Stars in the nineteenth century. Sorry, well it's.

333
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 3: Like old think about it as like old West.

334
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 2: No, definitely, no, it's very common at that time because

335
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I need to get a good breeding exactly.

336
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 3: So they moved to New Zealand. They beg Amy, please

337
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 3: come here get a new start. She agrees. She hops

338
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 3: on over. That's a four hour flight these days, but

339
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 3: it probably took like a week or so back then

340
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 3: by boat.

341
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 2: They want her to take care of the kids they

342
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 2: plan on.

343
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 3: Having, probably, So she gets to New Zealand and she

344
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 3: kept doing her Amy bacchist to bock up. So she

345
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,160
Speaker 3: got a job as a governess in Otaho, who if

346
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,359
Speaker 3: you say so? And she was there for a couple

347
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 3: of weeks before she conned someone actually a guy named

348
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 3: Reverend Lloyd Keating. She conned him into giving her one

349
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 3: pound and some concert tickets. Tower of Power E forty,

350
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 3: The Goo Goo Dolls, the Korean boy band. Am I

351
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 3: getting close? What happens next? Where am I?

352
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Speaker 2: Okay?

353
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 3: So that cash one pound, that's the equivalent to two

354
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty nine New Zealand dollars today, which is

355
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 3: the equivalent of about one hundred and fifty bucks US today.

356
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: Just to put it all on PC, I appreciate that.

357
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 3: So she gets brought before the Auckland Police Court charged

358
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 3: with obtaining one pound and concert tickets via false representation.

359
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 3: She just wept, she cried, She confessed I did it,

360
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 3: and she said she wasn't responsible for her own acts.

361
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,880
Speaker 3: The reverend was like, you know what, I only brought

362
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 3: charges because I wanted to use this as a warning

363
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 3: to her to knock it off, never do this to

364
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 3: scare And then the court was like, she just confessed,

365
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 3: we have to go through with these charges. Too bad.

366
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 3: So sad Lucky for her, they figured out, you know what,

367
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 3: you're not responsible for your own actions, and they released

368
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 3: her into the care of a local shopkeeper. Like poor shopkeeper.

369
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 2: Why, I don't know they do you know, if they

370
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 2: vouch for them in any relationship.

371
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 3: No idea. So Bach eventually moved to Littleton, which is

372
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,119
Speaker 3: at the northwestern end of the Bank's Peninsula. It's very

373
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 3: close to christ Church on the eastern coast of the

374
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 3: South Island.

375
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with christ Church from what I've.

376
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 3: Seen on the internet. It is absolutely beautiful. Yes, it's stunning.

377
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 2: We should go there.

378
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: Let's go, let's do it. So in Littleton, she went

379
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: to work as a governess for family friends from Victoria.

380
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 3: Because they had they'd become hotel owners. They bought this hotel.

381
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 3: Eight months after she gets hired, she tells her employees

382
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,719
Speaker 3: that she has inherited a large sum of money. Now

383
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 3: they're family friends, they know, they know, and they of

384
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 3: course didn't believe her because it wasn't true.

385
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 2: And they can ask other members of the family.

386
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 3: And they must have known about like her criminal history

387
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 3: for a while. Yeah, so they told her they didn't

388
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 3: believe her, and she became incredibly offended and she quit.

389
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 3: Really that's bocking weird, but whatever. Yeah, She's like, I

390
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 3: can't believe you don't believe me. I'm out of here.

391
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 2: Why did you bock off like that?

392
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 3: Well, let's stop here. I want ads. You can't stop me.

393
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll see what amy Bach has

394
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 3: up her sleeve.

395
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 2: Run the ads.

396
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 3: Zaren Hey, it's April eighteen eighty six.

397
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: Ah, my taxes are so late.

398
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: I.

399
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 3: Amy Bach. She quit her governess job in the huff.

400
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,199
Speaker 3: She balked on out and then she went out and

401
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 3: she bought a bunch of stuff on credit, as you do.

402
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 2: Everyone loved her amazon back.

403
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 3: She was able to convince people to trust her. She

404
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 3: was a gentle governess, like, no worries, essay, she'll pay

405
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 3: me back totally. She gets a bunch of stuff, takes

406
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: off for Wellington. The cops though, they're waiting for her

407
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 3: there because everyone had gotten wise to her. She's going

408
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 3: around saying she's the governess for the couple that owned

409
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 3: the hotel. Can I buy this petticoat and pay you

410
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 3: for it later? I just inherited a bunch of money,

411
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 3: so I'm good for it. They're like sure, they run

412
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 3: into the hotel couple. They're like, man, our governess tried

413
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 3: to feed us some crazy line about coming into an inheritance.

414
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 3: Total bull. Do you happen to have a line on

415
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: a good governess? We're looking for what?

416
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we new one, don't.

417
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 3: So she was brought back to christ Church and she

418
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,479
Speaker 3: had to stand charges before the Resident Magistrates Court and

419
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 3: it was there that she was convicted and sentenced to

420
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 3: one month's hard labor and imprisonment at Addington Prison.

421
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so she's out there doing like breaking rocks.

422
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 3: Breaking rocks in the hot sun. Here's a fun fact.

423
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 3: Couple fun facts about that. Fun facts about Addington Prison.

424
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: Please.

425
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 3: It is an example of Gothic Revival architecture Gothic architecture

426
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 3: seventy four, built by Benjamin Mountfort. He also designed the

427
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: christ Church Cathedral.

428
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 2: Of course, I know, right Mountfort.

429
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 3: Over the years, the building has been used as a jail,

430
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 3: a women's prison in a military camp.

431
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 2: So Mount Foresque Prison was closed.

432
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety nine. It was empty until early two

433
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 3: thousand and six, when the building was bought by a

434
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 3: local couple who renovated the building and turned it into

435
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: a super hip budget backpacker hostel. Oh you can stay there.

436
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 2: Oh now, it's like a bitcoin mining operation.

437
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 3: Go to jail dot co dot n Z. Jail dot

438
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 3: co dot nz and you can see it. Joe, you

439
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 3: can stay at Addington Prison. Joe cons calms.

440
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 2: Jail con that's right there, Wow, Rich, right there, Elizabeth, Oh,

441
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 2: God's right there.

442
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: It's just been here in front of me the whole time.

443
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: Realize, realize, realize.

444
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 3: Okay, eighteen sixty six it's where Amy Bach was sent

445
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 3: and that was her first time behind bars.

446
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Finally she gets out.

447
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: She moves to Wellington. Just keeps bocking, JKB, just keep bocking.

448
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: So she quote, she kept quote obtaining goods under false

449
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 3: pretenses like over and she did get work. She got

450
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: a job as a matron at the Otaki Mawori Boys College.

451
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: It's basically like a K through two school.

452
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: The whole idea, like cod is her charge on delivery.

453
00:22:59,000 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: This is likely.

454
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: So she's working at this school. And then then as now,

455
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: most of the students were from low income households and

456
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 3: most were Maori, and she would hustle money and goods

457
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 3: from all her cons but she didn't use it for herself. Instead,

458
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 3: she used it to buy like some of it she

459
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 3: used to buy boots for the students.

460
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: Oh I love that.

461
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is when I really started to like her,

462
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: Like she's just make this turn. Yeah, she's living in

463
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: poverty and she just goes around buying stuff for people.

464
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: She's basically a larcenus nun.

465
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this thinks she's generous. Yeah, she got pinched

466
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 3: and in July eighteen eighty seven, she was back in

467
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: court on fraud charges. She did the whole I don't

468
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 3: know what I'm doing thing, and then the papers talked

469
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 3: about how her mom had been mentally ill. She gets

470
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 3: sentenced to right, she gets sentenced to six months attention.

471
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: In dun Eden to get longer stretches.

472
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, governor of the prison there was really taken with

473
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: her comportment, Like he thought her manners or social skills,

474
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: her teaching experience would be a good fit for her

475
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 3: to get a gig teaching classes at the prison, and

476
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 3: she was offered to position as teacher. But then the

477
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: offer was rescinded when the governor found out that she

478
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 3: was planning an escape, like how she was forging letters

479
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: from an imaginary aunt that would somehow get her released.

480
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's also convoluted. It made no sense,

481
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 3: and I think even the governor was like, this makes

482
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: no sense.

483
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: There's no stamp on this envelope, Like that's.

484
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: It, you know, whatever in prison with you go back

485
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: to yourself. Quiet. Now she did get out. Eventually, she

486
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 3: got discharged January eighteen eighty eight. Okay, so that's January.

487
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 3: By April she's back in court. She does these quick successions.

488
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: She was working as a freelance music instructorlance and once.

489
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: Again I remember that one. Yeah. Great.

490
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 3: She was using her trusted job in the community to

491
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: get some stuff from folks on credit and then she

492
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: never paid for it.

493
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: They got bocked.

494
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: Just going on, they got her that. This all gets

495
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: her two months in prison this time, and she actually

496
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: this time she asked to be sent to an insane asylum.

497
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 3: This is what she said. Quote the malady I suffer

498
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: from now has been upon me from childhood, and no

499
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: one but God and myself know the fearful horror I've

500
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: had to face year after year in the knowledge that

501
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: instead of my being able to fight successfully against it,

502
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: as I have prayed so often to do, it has

503
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: rather overpowered me more and more. And then so she

504
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 3: said she inherited madness and kleptomania from her mother. But

505
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: the judge was not buying that. He said that kleptomania

506
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: was quote only another name for stealing.

507
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 2: Oh, he doesn't believe the pathologies and quote.

508
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: It would never do to countenance it. If we did,

509
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 3: a good many people would soon be bound to think

510
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: that they were suffering with that disease. So yeah, he's

511
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: like get out of here with that. So there goes

512
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 3: that defense. She did her time, and then she moved

513
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: to Hakoroa on the Banks.

514
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: Peninsula is also a Maori settlement. Yeah, Maori encampment.

515
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: It's interesting, like you would see you see the very

516
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 3: anglicized names of places, and then they have like the

517
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: Maori names. And I found a really good Maori dictionary

518
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: and like they would they show you how to pronounce things,

519
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: and I, of course butcher it because I'm me. But

520
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: it's like you want to be really respectful to the

521
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: place names. And uh, it's fascinating to see that kind

522
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: of like second layer two things totally. So she goes

523
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: there once again. She gets a job as a governess.

524
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 3: It is one of the only few jobs that she

525
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: can like at the time.

526
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: Imagine only like bookkeeper, governess made made seamstress.

527
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: That kind of stuff. And once again she boked it up.

528
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: She gets busted, brought before the christ Church Magistrate court

529
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: once again. The prosecutor pointed out that she did the

530
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 3: same thing over and over and over again. She had

531
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 3: a long record of these short box and then this

532
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 3: time she gets sentenced to concurrent six months sentences for

533
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 3: larceny and false pretenses from back in April of that year.

534
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: So she did her time as always, went back to

535
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: Dunedin and she got a job as a housekeeper. So

536
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 3: she's able to hold that down for like a year.

537
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

538
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then in April of eighteen ninety she tried

539
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: to pawn some of her employers.

540
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: I was just about to say house of other people's

541
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: stuff exactly.

542
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: So she runs away from Dunedon in early May, and

543
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: then she gets arrested in Geraldine on May seventeenth. She

544
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: didn't have a lawyer and she didn't deny what she'd done.

545
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 3: The prosecutor described the fraud as quote the most cunning

546
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 3: scheme that had ever been adopted in the colony schemes.

547
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 3: It does not say too much about the criminal element in.

548
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: Lawyer that assessment.

549
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: Taking into account her priors, the court sentenced her to

550
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 3: the maximum sentence three years in jail. In prison, she.

551
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 2: Did not catching real time.

552
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, she did two years and four months of her

553
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: sentence and she gets released October eighteen ninety two, time

554
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: off for good behavior and all that. She moved to.

555
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: Young eighteen ninety two. She's born in fifty nine. So yes,

556
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: she's like thirty three years old.

557
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 3: So she moves to Timaru or tetiki Omaru, okay, and

558
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 3: so pretty soon like she gets there, she presents herself

559
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: as a wealthy tourist. She's like, look at me, I'm

560
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: a wealthy tourist. She borrows one pound from a school

561
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: principle after she said she lost her purse. She's like,

562
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: I just got here. I'm so rich white Way purse. Yeah,

563
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: So she takes off with the cash, makes no effort

564
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: at repayment. She gets quickly caught, sentenced to a month

565
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: in the clink because why girl. She tells the court

566
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 3: she had to leave after receiving unexpected news of her

567
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: father's death. She's like, they didn't give me a chance

568
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: to pay this back. And the problem is that he's

569
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: still alive and living in Melbourne, and so like Amy

570
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: had to do her month.

571
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: She's like, I got news he's gonna die. He's gonna someday,

572
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: someday soon. I love him so much.

573
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: She does her month. She gets out, she reaches out

574
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: to the Salvation Army for help.

575
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

576
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: Then also kept stealing things from no not yet, but

577
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: she pawned her landlady's husband's watch in April of eighteen

578
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 3: ninety three, which got her six months in prison. She

579
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: gets out in October eighteen ninety three. She moved to Amru.

580
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: After a pallet of salvation, Army told her that she

581
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: could come out there.

582
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: Okay, once again, she's got friends.

583
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, once again. She played the phony large inheritance card

584
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: and she used that as leverage to try and buy

585
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 3: this huge house, six bedroom house for her friend's family.

586
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: She's like, I just got this huge inheritance. I'm gonna

587
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: buy you guys a house because you're so nice. He

588
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 3: told me to come out.

589
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: Here, thinks yeah.

590
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: So she goes and she signs the sale note on

591
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: the house, and she like quote, arranges for a deposits.

592
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: To be paid the next day. Credit will come.

593
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: Then she goes on a shopping spree. She went to

594
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: furniture stores. She's like, selecting all the trappings for the house.

595
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: I can't believe how great your prices are. I thought

596
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: seventy five pounds. I thought it was gonna be one

597
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pounds easy, My god. And she's like,

598
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: I you know, I want it all. I want to

599
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 3: get all this stuff, and then she's like, oh, wait,

600
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: where's my wallet? I can't Oh no, like I'm so rich.

601
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: Where's my purse? Can I borrow like I.

602
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: Don't know, twenty pounds? And then when I'll come.

603
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: Back and buy you just a quick.

604
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: Loan and the furniture was like all right, money exactly.

605
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: She ran this con on him a couple of time,

606
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: the same person. Yes, each time he grows more suspicious,

607
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: like hello, but he still gave her cash. So she

608
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: tries to become a formal member of the Salvation Army.

609
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: You know they do good work, of course, but the

610
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: local captain, sir, yes, sir, he knew about her past,

611
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: and he said that she'd have to conclusively prove to

612
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: him that she'd changed her ways. And that's hard to

613
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: do in the middle of a scam sale of a

614
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: mansion and stealing from a local businessman. It's really not easy.

615
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: But it wasn't just the furniture, guys. She did also

616
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: con Salvation Army troops of thirty shillings for tickets to

617
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: an event. So again she's just like, I don't think

618
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: she goes to these concerts, just like she just gives

619
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: people the tickets to have a good time.

620
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: I appreciate her style.

621
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: So then she bounces out. She leaves her Palmerston. They

622
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: got bokeed.

623
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: Baba, She's out of there.

624
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 3: So she gets caught pretty quickly in Palmerston, arrested, sentenced

625
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: to four months of hard labor. That was her eighth

626
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: time in prison.

627
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: Wow did she get like anything for her ten times

628
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: in prison? With a special punch card. She went present.

629
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: Nine in October of eighteen eighty five when she got

630
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: busted for not paying for her room and board. Oh yeah,

631
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 3: she did three months for that. She gets out, she

632
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 3: gets sent to this Mount Magdala home in christ Church.

633
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: This is Catholic run.

634
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: Home from Mount Magdalen.

635
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, for fallen women, Yes, fallen. So by nineteen oh

636
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: one she's.

637
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: Out, she's out of the game, out of the.

638
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: Well, she's out of the home for fallen women. She's like,

639
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: I got up and I'm no longer I've fallen, but

640
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: I can get up. So she gets a job as

641
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: a housekeeper in Wymody and she told them that her

642
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: name was miss Sherwin.

643
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, nasty.

644
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: She seemed to be catching up on that, like her

645
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: past is going to catch up with her.

646
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she now knows fake are necessary for her

647
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: get go and.

648
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: Like like everywhere else she goes, she accumulates an incredible

649
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 3: amount of debt. And to wipe that debt, she faked

650
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: the death of Miss Sherwin and just skipped time.

651
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: Have you heard about miss so sad? Miss Sherwin died.

652
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: Go over, Look, she's behind that building over.

653
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: She needs to show up in these towns presenting as

654
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: the secretary for Miss Sherwin. Order the stuff. Miss Sherwin dies.

655
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: Now she's got to like go take her back to

656
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: the family. Yeah, you don't want to deal with her

657
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: because she's all sad. Poor woman, got to take a

658
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: you know, I should have been an eighteen ninety sus.

659
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Should have God. So a year later, she's back in

660
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: christ Church. Now she's calling herself Miss Mary Shannon.

661
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: These names so forgettable but yet so believable.

662
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. She she piled up with the guy named Alfred

663
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: William Buxton. He was like a well known landscape gardener

664
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: and Alfie Buxton, Yeah, good old alf Buxton. Pretty soon

665
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: she's staying in this house.

666
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I've been waiting for this. The movie either not

667
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: interested in her sexuality, but her using of somebody else

668
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: for leverage, either in some kind of personal relationship, pretending

669
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: to be a widow whatever, Oh I got some yes.

670
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 3: So March nineteen oh three, Buxton introduces her to some

671
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 3: people that he knew. Amy approaches them and is like, hey,

672
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: do you want to go in on a poultry farm

673
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: with me? She wants to know. They want to invest

674
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 3: in this poultry farm she was eyeing in Mount Rosskill,

675
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: Mount Roskill, and they bought in and she dipped out.

676
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: There was, of course no poultry farm, so she gets caught.

677
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: She goes to prison for two years for that one

678
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 3: hard labor, not just lock up. So the press gets

679
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 3: wind of earth AT's point and people are fascinated by her.

680
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: The cops were like, they were surprised by how good

681
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 3: she was while doing bad. The robinhood thing, Yeah, like

682
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: most of what's yeah, most of what she stole she

683
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 3: gave to the needy, like especially young women working as

684
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: maids and housekeepers. Yeah, here she has living in poverty.

685
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 3: She doesn't really drink, She never drank, she doesn't sell

686
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: her body, never physically assaulted or killed anybody. So it's

687
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: like they're kind of shocked. Yeah, exactly. The Evening Post

688
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: in Wellington ran an article about her with the headline

689
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: remarkable female swindler unique in colonial criminology. Let me read

690
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: you some of it is a female swindler's remarkable career,

691
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: which stands unique in the annals of colonial criminology, recently

692
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: ended for the time being when she passed within the

693
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: walls of the Terrace Jail to serve a substantial sentence.

694
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: Though still young in years, she has left a remarkable

695
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 3: impression on the criminal records of the colony. There is

696
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 3: an outstanding fact that in New Zealand, perhaps in Australasia,

697
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: this woman, who passed under many names, stands supreme in

698
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: cleverness over other female criminals and in her own particular line.

699
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: And her position is probably unique.

700
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: I like it.

701
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, they make this interesting observation about her quote. Thus,

702
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 3: as is not uncommon with great artists, she sometimes suffered

703
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: through her task being too well done. For the most part,

704
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 3: she traded on the credulity of her own sex. Her youth, accomplishments,

705
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 3: social gifts, and knowledge of the world were used to

706
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: ingratiate herself with sympathetic and sometimes admiring sisters. No case

707
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: is known of her using these gifts to gain her

708
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 3: end by means of entering into an intrigue with a man. Interesting, Yeah,

709
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 3: it's an interesting observation.

710
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: Also, going to protect you from violence, that's really true too.

711
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 2: You know a place with a lot of like former convicts.

712
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: Imagine it's a little bit rough. You know, people are

713
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: going to be a little bit tolerant of violence as

714
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: it means to get back at somebody if you don't

715
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: wrong a man. You know.

716
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 3: Well, and I don't know it was New Zealand, the convicts.

717
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm imagining that Australia.

718
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: But I think too she's in New Zealand.

719
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: I know's back in New Zealand, but I think just

720
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: the culture.

721
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 3: It's a wild West culture. It's like a frontier culture exactly.

722
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 3: And I think you don't even need to be in

723
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 3: the frontier to know that that's how you would avoid

724
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: violence totally. But that's a really great observation. So she's

725
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: like stealing from rich women to give to poor women.

726
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: Basically love that.

727
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: They wrap up the piece with this quote she was

728
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: a fatalist, regarding her failing as a disease.

729
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: Quote.

730
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 3: It is something to have kept good for seven years.

731
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 3: She is reported to have remarked, quote and what can

732
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: you expect? It's in the blood, And there can scarcely

733
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: be a doubt that this statement is absolutely true.

734
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: So they're basically saying it's madness that she's becoming.

735
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: Just in the blood for her to do this. She

736
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 3: can't help it. October nineteen oh four, she gets out

737
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: of prison with some time serve her good behavior, and

738
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: she was sent to the Samaritan Home in christ Church.

739
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: She only lasted two days there before she just left.

740
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: It wasn't for hers there, she just walked out.

741
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: She took off. By February of nineteen oh five, she

742
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: was living in Rakaya under the name Amy Channel c

743
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 3: h A n E L. I'm going to guess she

744
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: pronounced it like channel and not channel Amy. You know

745
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: who knows. So in Rikaya she tried to mess with

746
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: a check to show it made out for more than

747
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 3: it should have been.

748
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: Oh, they'll get you there, and yeah that she got caught.

749
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: Trying to bock on that one. Usually she would own

750
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: up to what she'd done and ask for mercy because

751
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: she couldn't help it. This time she pled. She pleaded

752
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: not guilty, and I think it made it worse for

753
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 3: her because she was convicted and sentenced to three years inside.

754
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

755
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 3: So after two and a half years, Amy gets out.

756
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: It's nineteen oh seven. She went back to the Samaritan Home.

757
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: Remember she only stayed two days last time, But this

758
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 3: time she's like, all right, I'll stay here. She starts

759
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: hanging out with members of the Pollard's Liliputian Opera Company

760
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 3: who were performing at the Theater Royal.

761
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: Is that lil a Putia? Like that youth missing for

762
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: little people?

763
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: No, they're children, it's like a youth opera company entry.

764
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: And like she even traveled with them to dun Edon.

765
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: Remember she was once a great musician.

766
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: An actor and a teacher school marma.

767
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. But in dun Eden she couldn't help herself. She

768
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: went around telling people that she was the patron of

769
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: the opera company, the generous donor who made it all happen,

770
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: and she used that story to borrow money that she

771
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: had no intention of repaying. So the opera company moved on,

772
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 3: but Amy stayed in dun Eaton.

773
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 2: I wish she was like a woman of appetite who

774
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: goes to restaurants and says like yeah, they just I

775
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: would like to have this meal. It's going to be

776
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: on a bill, and she at least gets to enjoy

777
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: the meal.

778
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure she was giving the money to the kid.

779
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: And I'm sure she's greater than mids of small mindedness

780
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: because she's doing this to get the kids into opera.

781
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: She's doing this to give other stuff. But I just

782
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 2: wish once she got the meal.

783
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly. Well, so she's in dun Eden. She gets

784
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: a job as a housekeeper and she's calling herself Agnes Valance.

785
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 3: Oh like that, and her employers loved her, and all

786
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: was well until they went away for the Christmas holiday,

787
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: and she immediately went out and got loans using the

788
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: name Charlotte Skevington, and she used the furniture in the

789
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: family's house is collateral. And then the lenders find out

790
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: it's a ruse. The family comes back from vacation, a

791
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: warrant is issued for her arrest. January nineteen oh nine.

792
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: Been Amy already in the wind, got bough, they got buked.

793
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: Let's pause for a break. I'm going to leave you

794
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: wondering where she went next, and I will answer that

795
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: question upon our return. Zarin yo, Amy buck, What the

796
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: buck is going on? Amy box? She ran away from

797
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: the scams that she was pulling in Duneton and she

798
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: went to Port Malino on the South Otago coast.

799
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: Of course, look at me, like, I know.

800
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: It's in an area called the Nuggets. There's like Nugget

801
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: Bay and then Nuggets.

802
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: And whatever Australia.

803
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. So she got a room at a huge guesthouse

804
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 3: called at Albion House that was just packed with tourists.

805
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: It was like a fox getting a room at the

806
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: hen house. So she adopted a new identity. Well this time,

807
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: she's not a maid. She's not a teacher, not a

808
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 3: patron of the arts, not a woman. She was Perceval

809
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 3: Leonard Carroll Redwood, a rich sheep farmer from a moneyed family,

810
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: nephew of an archbishop. He was a former horse jockey,

811
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: as evident by his small friends. Of course, everybody loved

812
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: him there, and everyone took him at face value, except

813
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: for some of the kids on the property. Like they

814
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: would refer to Percy as a woman dressed as a

815
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: man if they saw him, like at the door sitting

816
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: in the parlor. One kid one time said, look, mommy,

817
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: look at the man with the lady's face, and everyone

818
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 3: was all embarrassed and like corrected the kids Percy Redwood,

819
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 3: He's like rich and fun and how dare they insult him?

820
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 3: Like he didn't choose to be so small and fine bold.

821
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 3: So a guest later told a reporter quote, he was

822
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 3: an alright chap. He had plenty of money, and if

823
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: you wanted anything, he was the boy to buy it

824
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 3: for you. The essence of all that was good and kind.

825
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 3: He appeared to have to do good to other people.

826
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: His affability and obliging nature made us all like him.

827
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 2: I wonder why she went for the switch.

828
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: I don't know.

829
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's ultimate hide. I mean it's correct.

830
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 3: And that's the thing is that they're saying like this

831
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: is like the peak yee. So you know you know

832
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: what that means. It's time for scams.

833
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 2: Someone's going to get boxed. Oh yeah, what's going to happen?

834
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: I can send the baking coming.

835
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: So Amy gets all sorts of loans from people. As Percy.

836
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 3: She said she lost her or rather Percy lost his

837
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: wallet on a fishing trip and like wallet, everything was

838
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 3: in the wallet, like all this cash and like a

839
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: promisory note for even more cash and then like bank transfer.

840
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: Things, German bear bonds totally.

841
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 3: And it wasn't just the other tourists who got bokeed.

842
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 3: A local woman loaned Bock her entire life savings until

843
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 3: more money could be sent.

844
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: What yeah, Amy just loanrse. Yeah.

845
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 3: Amy kept this all up by using some classic con tools.

846
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 3: She had letters to Percy from lawyers and phony Redwood

847
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: family like, as well as postal orders. Percy would go

848
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 3: off to dun Eden unquote business just like flush with cash,

849
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: so he conned there. Amy con there to pay back

850
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 3: the cons at the Nuggets. She's got a multi distance

851
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: pond and all of the evidence made it look like

852
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: Percy Redwood was a rust funder, a man of adventure,

853
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 3: and no Amy bach criminal heavy baggage insight. So it

854
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 3: was in Port Molino that Amy met Agnes Ottaway. Friends

855
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: and family called her NeSSI. Her parents owned Albion House,

856
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: the guest house where Percy was staying. They grew close.

857
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: Nessie thought Percy was pretty keen, real fox. Percy reciprocated

858
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: those feelings. Her parents kind of pushed like they wanted

859
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 3: her to get married and Percy. One day, Percy presented

860
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: Nessie with a five diamond engagement ring. What yauza perse

861
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: Jenny Coleman, the author of the biography, He said, quote,

862
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: I think it was how far can I make this

863
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 3: scam work?

864
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: That's what I'm wondering.

865
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: This would have been pretty close to the pinnacle of

866
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: Amy's career as a con artist.

867
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,919
Speaker 2: It has to be intoxicated helping these two crazy kids

868
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 2: can make it almost to the aisle well.

869
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: Amy faked letters from Percy's moms and slipped them into

870
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 3: the mayl. To Nessie's parents, they spoke of the family's

871
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 3: wealth and the excitement that Percy was settling down and

872
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 3: marrying into such a formidable and upright family. She faked

873
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 3: letters with job offers for Percy, letters from banks being like, yep,

874
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: you got a lot of money, and she'd get it

875
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 3: done because she would ride along with the truck. Percy

876
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 3: would ride along with the truck taking letters and goods

877
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 3: to town, and she was able to intercept any letters

878
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: going out from Nessie's family to either the quote Redwoods

879
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: or other entities. She was able to if Nessie's parents

880
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 3: wanted to write to his family, he snatched that up

881
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: and then wrote a fake return and then he slipped

882
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: his or she slipped the fake letters in anyway, So

883
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 3: this was going to be the wedding of the year

884
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 3: because it's huge poor Nessie is all set to marry

885
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 3: a woman pulling off her ultimate con Amy as Percy

886
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: went around town or ordering up so much stuff for

887
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: the wedding like insane and borrowing money for it all. Well, yeah,

888
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: like Percy's racking up this like tab that my mom's

889
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 3: going to be in town for the wedding and she's

890
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: going to pay everything. Took out a marriage license, like

891
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: did everything on the up and up. Amy spent so

892
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 3: much of everyone else's money that the business owners in

893
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: town started getting suspicious because they're all like talking and

894
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: realizing that no cash had been exchanged, like everything is

895
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: on credit. And then Percy confided in friends that all

896
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 3: the suspicions around him were starting to really get to him.

897
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: It's really upsetting. I hear all the murmurs, and Percy's like,

898
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: should I call the whole thing off? And they're like no,

899
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: they told him this is true love. You go ahead

900
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 3: and you marry your girl, which is like a masterful

901
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 3: gambit because he gets a whole bunch of people. She

902
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: gets a whole bunch of people in her corner. They're

903
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: willing to defend this fairy tale. So right before, and

904
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 3: people don't ever want to be proven wrong. So right

905
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: before the wedding, the groom receives the unfortunate news from

906
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: his family that they would not be able to attend.

907
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: It turns out there was another family wedding on the

908
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 3: exact same day and they just couldn't be in two

909
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 3: places at once. That Elizabeth Percy's devastated, so upset, and

910
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: that everyone's trying to console him. Oh my god, I'm

911
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: so sorry your family, I understand. And this threw a

912
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 3: wrench in a couple of things. First, they had to

913
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 3: replace Percy's sisters in the bridal party, just the visualry

914
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: the new best man because his dad was that. But

915
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 3: then there's also the matter of repayment.

916
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: Oh right, the person paying for everything.

917
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 3: Mom's supposed to come in to pay it off. Clothes, gifts,

918
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 3: carriage rides. But you know what, the weddings go nonetheless, Zaren, Yes, yes,

919
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: I want you to picture it. It's April twenty first,

920
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: nineteen oh nine. You are the right Reverend John Calvert

921
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: George Duncan Blathwaite, an Anglican minister from Balclutha. You are

922
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: at Albion House to perform the wedding of Nessy and Percy.

923
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 3: It's a lovely autumn day. The homes French doors are

924
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 3: all open, and the sounds of birds and the scent

925
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 3: of flowers fill the air. The two hundred guests in

926
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: their finery mill about the ground, sipping champagne and chatting.

927
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: You stand at the hearth in the great room at

928
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: the guest house, preparing to bind the couple in the

929
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: eternal knot of holy matrimony. A grandfather clock ticks in

930
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: the background. You can't help but eavesdrop As people take

931
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 3: their seats. Some whisper about how much money Percy owes

932
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: them or a family member. Others spread gossip about his

933
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: family not showing up, or some of the inconsistencies in

934
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: his stories. You'd heard wonderful things about this man, but

935
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: now you're seeing some cracks in the facade. You'd thought

936
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 3: there was something off about him when you met him,

937
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 3: but you couldn't put your finger on it. No matter,

938
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: You're here to get down to business and enjoy the

939
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: absolutely lavish spread for the reception. No expense has been spared.

940
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: You're very honored to be involved in this society wedding,

941
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 3: and you take it seriously. You scan the crowd and

942
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: you see the cream of the crop, a member of parliament, doctors, lawyers, bankers, landowners,

943
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: cattle barns. You get the nod from the staff that

944
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: the ceremony can begin. You can clear your throat and

945
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: the groom appears. My goodness, he is a small man,

946
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 3: but they're in love. You figure, and there's a lid

947
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 3: to every pot. The bride walks down the aisle in

948
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 3: a gorgeous cream colored silk dress, her attendants all in

949
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 3: embroidered gowns. You look to the mother of the bride.

950
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 3: She seems uneasy. You hope there isn't a pregnancy involved.

951
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 3: That would be messy. Well, don't worry, reverend, there certainly isn't. So.

952
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 2: Percy and NeSSI are wed.

953
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 3: They get married. What the reception nuts? The local paper

954
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: described it as quote, this was no Arcadian repast, but

955
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 3: a feast to suit the palette of the epicure washed

956
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: down with the sparkling vintage of Rome Champagne, which had

957
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 3: been nine years in the cellar. Wow. Yeah, so there

958
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: were oh gosh, there were toasts after toast, exquisite cake frivolity.

959
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 3: The place was packed to the gills with wedding gifts.

960
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: Oh man.

961
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: They went outside to take photos and Percy stalled so

962
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 3: much that the light faded and they couldn't get the

963
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: They couldn't capture the pictures. There are no photos of

964
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 3: the wedding.

965
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 2: Really, huh.

966
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 3: They danced, They sang until midnight, but then the couple

967
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 3: they said they were going to postpone their honeymoon until later,

968
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: so they didn't ride off in a carriage together with

969
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 3: cans trailing behind. Instead, Percy slept in the same room

970
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 3: as his groomsmen, which everyone found odd, including the groomsmen. Like,

971
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 3: when it came time to undress, Percy just pulled his

972
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 3: pajamas over his suit. What Yeah, with his men. He

973
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 3: did not go off with the bride.

974
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got that part. I'm working on that one.

975
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: Even with the people who he's supposed to like, not

976
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: be with, he's with them, the groomsmen, and then he's like,

977
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: all right, let's go to bed.

978
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: Guys, puts pajamas over his suit.

979
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: Over his wedding suit. Yeah, so he's adding clothing to.

980
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 3: Go to back. Rumors started to swirl, mainly that Percy

981
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 3: was a con artist, but also that Percy may not

982
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: actually be a man.

983
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 2: A few things. Percy probably not a man. Percy.

984
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just all this like midnight chatter, and I

985
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 3: just imagine people running from room to room and like

986
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 3: these huddled like fevered conversations about stuff.

987
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: British Comedy of Manners.

988
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So the morning after the wedding, the

989
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: bride's parents and like some of their friends confront Percy

990
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: about his finance at breakfast.

991
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

992
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 3: Yes, they call him into a room. They're like, you

993
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 3: need it if you don't pay up. At this point,

994
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: they're not accusing of anything other oh, taking gotta pay

995
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 3: for your family. You don't pay up, there will be

996
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: no honeymoon, and NeSSI will be your wife in name only.

997
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 3: You don't get to you don't get to consummate this marriage.

998
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 2: Okay that's what he's saying.

999
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're like, you have to pay this back,

1000
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: and he's kind of hemming, hunging, and then someone called

1001
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: the cops in dun Eden. They show up, they recognize

1002
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 3: Percy as Amy Resta. On the spot, Nessi's Dad supposedly said, quote,

1003
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: well it might have been worse. A great attitude to have.

1004
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 3: I think that this is probably worse for most people.

1005
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 3: You know, it might have been no one died.

1006
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, no one got eaten by crocodile.

1007
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: Exactly. So Amy she gets taken back to dun Eden.

1008
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 3: This is how the Darling Downs Gazette wrote about it,

1009
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: Darling quote. An extraordinary chapter in a most extraordinary career

1010
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 3: was brought to a close at midday yesterday when Amy Bach,

1011
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 3: a petit woman of between forty and forty nine years

1012
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 3: of age, was lodged in the cells at the Dunedin

1013
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: Police Station. The story of her most recent escapade furnishes

1014
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 3: more sensation than the average novel, and it has the

1015
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: added charm of being taken from real life and of

1016
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: having been enacted in our very midst.

1017
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: What do you think Percy and Nessie talked about during

1018
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 2: the courting time? I you know, like were they talking

1019
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: about like the Darby?

1020
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 3: Like who know? I mean apparently he was very respectful

1021
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 3: and imagine all that.

1022
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 2: I figure he wasn't like pushing to kiss her cheek

1023
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: or anything.

1024
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: But I mean, this is what the Wodonga Express had

1025
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: to say okay please as she walked from the station

1026
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 3: to the cell. People knowing nothing of her could not

1027
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: have guessed her true sex. Neatly and fashionably dressed in

1028
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 3: bridegroom gray, her hands hidden in a light gray overcoat,

1029
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 3: a shapely hat set jauntily on a close cropped head,

1030
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 3: her stride firm and long and masculine. She looked all

1031
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: she intended to be a well educated, well to do

1032
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 3: young man. Her figure is that of a man, and

1033
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 3: that is stated to be its natural shape. Her features

1034
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 3: are regular, attractive, dark. It is interesting to mention that

1035
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: she was measured and suited at the New Zealand clothing

1036
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: factory and that no one suspected anything out of the way.

1037
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 3: Bach is now awaiting trial on three charges of false pretenses,

1038
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 3: including one of alleging to the Registrar of Marriages that

1039
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: she was a man.

1040
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: So she fooled a tailor.

1041
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 3: She fooled a tailor. That's pretty incredible. So Amy pleads

1042
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 3: guilty to all the charges. She got sentenced to two

1043
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: years in prison with hard labor and was declared a

1044
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 3: quote habitual criminal.

1045
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: That serious. That's serious.

1046
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 3: That goes on your permit record.

1047
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that means like you're not going to be

1048
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 2: getting the nice treatment in prison.

1049
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you really don't. They don't see any

1050
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: kind of like future, you knowbilitation. Yeah, this was her

1051
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 3: thirteenth conviction, were Yeah, and she'd been at this point

1052
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 3: she had been sentenced over the years, just sixteen years

1053
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: in prison, more than sixteen years. So June seventeenth, nineteen

1054
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 3: oh nine, poor NeSSI goes in, applies for and receives

1055
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 3: an annulment to her marriage. Nessie went on to marry

1056
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 3: a widower the next year. He was a little bit

1057
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: significantly older. Yeah, when he passed away, she married a

1058
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 3: guy she'd known since childhood.

1059
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: Finally, that's probably a good choice.

1060
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some happy resume. The papers had a field

1061
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 3: day with this story, which must have been devastating to

1062
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 3: Nessie and her family. Sure, yeah, so humiliating. A reporter

1063
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 3: named Robert William Robson. He wrote a four part serialized pamphlet.

1064
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,479
Speaker 2: Robert William Robson, So the son of Rob Robert, the son.

1065
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 3: Of Rob Bob Bill Bobson. So papers they ran all

1066
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 3: sorts of stories. There are all these stories that went

1067
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 3: out on the wire about women who dressed his men

1068
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 3: and like through history and like just.

1069
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: All these examples became like a learning point for them.

1070
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: I guess.

1071
00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, postcards were sold, songs and poems were written. Oh god,

1072
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 3: all the stuff from the wedding had to either go

1073
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 3: back to the merchants or was auctioned off.

1074
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 2: Does she stay a folk hero at this point? Oh yeah,

1075
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: so people are still singing laudatory songs like about her

1076
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 2: getting over.

1077
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: But both way, you'll see it cuts both ways, so

1078
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 3: they have to auction this stuff off. Huge events like

1079
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 3: crammed into all these The public just crammed into the

1080
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 3: halls to witness the imagine. The Prime Minister at the time,

1081
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 3: Joseph Ward, called his rival a liar by calling him

1082
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 3: amy Bach. Oh wow, someone named a racehorse amy Bach,

1083
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 3: which made for great difficulty for me in sorting through

1084
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 3: search results on newspapers because I'm getting great news or

1085
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 3: like horse race results, and like amy Bach came in

1086
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 3: the oh oh, that's a horse. February of nineteen twelve,

1087
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: she gets out on probation. She got a job at

1088
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 3: a retirement home, and she got another job as a maid.

1089
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 3: She worked as a teacher's assistant, and she kind of

1090
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 3: like coordinated plays and musical recitals. She was like crafting

1091
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 3: a real life for herself at.

1092
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 2: This point, able to deal with reality this point.

1093
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, November sixteenth, nineteen fourteen, she got married for real.

1094
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 3: This time she tied the knot with a fellow named

1095
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 3: Charles Christofferson. And then because she got married, she got

1096
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: unconditional discharge from her probation.

1097
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: Really good, Yeah, that's how that worked.

1098
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 3: That's how that works. Then she still had a lot

1099
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 3: of debt and that put a strain on her marriage.

1100
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 3: They divorced after just a year together, but she kept

1101
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: his last name, which is Handy. In nineteen seventeen, she

1102
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 3: borrowed fifteen pounds from a local flax mill manager to

1103
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 3: purchase a piano. She bocked him, of course, yeah, they

1104
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 3: She didn't pay them back, had no way to do so.

1105
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 3: Her lawyer managed to get her a fine instead of

1106
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 3: jail time, So ten pounds plus court costs and out

1107
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: the door. She really did start to get her life.

1108
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 3: She lived a quiet life in Mocow in the North Island,

1109
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: New Zealand. She played music, was like a strong part

1110
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 3: of the community, but she had a wandering soul. She

1111
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 3: hooked back up with the Salvation Army there and she

1112
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 3: worked as a cook in their kitchen. But she couldn't

1113
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 3: help herself. Remember, in nineteen thirty one, when she was

1114
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 3: in her seventies, she got busted for another of her

1115
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 3: loan scams. She had a bunch of aliases at this point.

1116
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 3: She pleaded guilty on all charges, got a two year probation.

1117
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 3: I need to feel yeah, conditional on her residence at

1118
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 3: the Salvation Army Home, Sally. It looks like that was

1119
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: her last boxing. August twenty ninth, nineteen forty three, she

1120
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: passed away in Bombay, south of Auckland. She was recorded

1121
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: as Amy Marion Christofferson, aged eighty.

1122
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 2: Which is not exactly right whatever, and.

1123
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 3: She was buried in an unmarked grave, oh Popper's grave. Yeah,

1124
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 3: Jenny Copeland. That ends her biography of me Bak with

1125
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: this passage, which I will use as my takeaway. Thank

1126
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 3: you for asking quote. So was she mad, bad, a

1127
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 3: pathological liar, a kleptomaniac, or a lesbian? Or did Amy

1128
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 3: simply reject many of the social conventions of her time?

1129
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 3: If anything, an ability to adapt, to perform, and to

1130
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 3: rise above the mundane circumstances of daily life, whether in

1131
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 3: fantasy or in productive and artistic endeavor was in Amy's

1132
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: blood above all else. She was the consummate performer and entertainer,

1133
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 3: whatever labels may be ascribed to her, and whatever pronouncements

1134
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 3: made about the underlying causes and motivations for her exploits.

1135
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: Amy Bach was and remains a bit of a hard case.

1136
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: Do you remember that dude Fred Damara heard this story

1137
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: about he pretended to a doctor and ended up saving

1138
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: the live on this ship in Japan and World War two?

1139
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: Hand a lot of same compulsive tendency, but doesn't do

1140
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: it to really help himself, only to ingratiate him with others.

1141
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: She doesn't seem to have the need to ingratiate herself.

1142
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: It seems to be even more earnest where she's just

1143
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 2: trying to help people. But it's so wild to have

1144
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: the compulsion to crime to help others. And it's like,

1145
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: if you could just just pause just that one thought,

1146
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 2: you could actually then help others. Yeah, exactly, Like I'm

1147
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 2: gonna cut right to the chase and steal it. I'm

1148
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: gonna give it to them, And I'm like, I respect

1149
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: your conviction.

1150
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 3: It must have been thrilling. No, No, like it, and

1151
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 3: at some point you figure, like, what what more do

1152
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: you want out of life? If she sees that, like

1153
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: there's a hard ceiling for her as just a governess

1154
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 3: for the rest of her life, for a housekeeper or

1155
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 3: someone's wife, and then just to be like, I can

1156
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 3: live this exciting, weird, artatistic life.

1157
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: I've often looked back, you know, as a black man. Now,

1158
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: when I look back in the past, there's not a

1159
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: lot of places from my imagination to rome and go,

1160
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: oh I do this, I do that. It's more like

1161
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: I'd be limited to this. I'd be limited to that.

1162
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 2: I often relate to women like her in the position

1163
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 2: where her horizons were foreshortened. So but and I also

1164
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: got to say that I imagine I don't know what

1165
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: I would have done, but I imagine if I was

1166
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: in someplace like New Zealand, I definitely would have done

1167
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: what she did. But she's like, you do a scam

1168
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: trying not to hurt anybody wants to hurt, You back

1169
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 2: too hard and you go to a new town. Yes,

1170
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: keep doing that until life ends, because I think that's

1171
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 2: what I would have to do back then, because you

1172
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't be allowed to be a full person, So why

1173
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: not at least cheat enough of you can get like

1174
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: that three quarter whatever you can by cheating otherwise, I

1175
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 2: mean why and also to help with their rules. The

1176
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 2: rules are obviously bunk anyway. I don't mean you shouldn't

1177
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 2: hurt anybody, but if you can scam a couple of

1178
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: people at a credit risk, I just I love them.

1179
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 3: Mad. I wish I knew more about what she.

1180
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 2: Was like on the day to day. Yeah. Same. She

1181
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: seemed like she was somewhat charming. Yeah, a good person, personable, smart, curious.

1182
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: That's fun.

1183
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: She had to be super fun. You know what I

1184
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 3: need right now?

1185
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 2: Though? What's that talk back?

1186
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 3: Oh?

1187
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I know somebody wholloke you up with that? Okay, yeah,

1188
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 2: produce a D produce a D talk back.

1189
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 3: I love you, Hi, guys. I was just listening to

1190
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 3: the episode about the Irish Relic theft. And here is

1191
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 3: my ridiculous takeaway.

1192
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: Give me a.

1193
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 3: Break, give me a break, break me off a piece

1194
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 3: of that Saint Bridge. I'll show myself up. You guys

1195
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 3: are awesome. Yeah, okay, Uh, that's it for today. You

1196
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 3: can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. There's

1197
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 3: also Ridiculous Crime on Twitter, at Instagram, email Ridiculous Crime

1198
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 3: at gmail dot com, leave it talkback on the iheartapp.

1199
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: Whatever you do, reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1200
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Dutton and Zarah Burnett, produced and edited by Dave Kusten,

1201
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 3: Patriarch of the Redwood Family, starring Annalise Rutger as Judith.

1202
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 3: Research is by special assistant to Mister Redwood, Marissa Brown

1203
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,439
Speaker 3: and Nessi's eighteenth Bridesmaid Andrea Song Sharpened Tear. The theme

1204
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 3: song is by Goible Furniture Store proprietor Thomas Lee and

1205
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 3: Oblivious Taylor Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1206
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 3: five hundred guests here and makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1207
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Salvation Army recruiter Ben Bollen and Phony

1208
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: Wedding cake decorator Noel Brown.

1209
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: We Dickus Clime Say It One More Timequus Crime. Ridiculous

1210
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more Podcasts. My

1211
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1212
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.