1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: we find ourselves in January, so they the Christmas has 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: once again died down. We don't have to worry with 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: that for another year. And we also don't have to 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: worry about the War on Christmas for another year. Right, 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: that's right? And what do you do in the absence 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: of the War on Christmas in these January duel drums? Yeah, well, 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: this is actually the perfect time to concentrate on another 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: ongoing war, and that's the war on creativity. And it's 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: really it's a good time to talk about it because 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: January is always it's a time of new beginnings. It's 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: a time of you know, of new corporate goals and 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: new personal goals, and a lot of times that incorporates 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: a certain amount of creative thinking. I want to think 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: more creatively, I want to be more creatively. I want 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: my company to figure out new and inventive ways to 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: go about our process. That's right. In fact, one of 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: the things we can pick from in our development goals 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: will fall under a theme of I think it was 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: like customer service innovation. All sorts of different categories, but 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: innovation that's one of them. Creativity essentially, And this is 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: a huge cottage industry in the marketplace, right, incorporations. Everybody 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: wants and out of the box thinker, someone who can 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: really come up with juicy new novel ideas. Yeah, and 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: one year we even had like the whole company was 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: like Creative Innovation Year, and we had like a fun 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: room in the in the office with like being back 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: chairs and all that stuff that nobody used. Yeah, well 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: because badly we're busy being creative at our desk. Um. 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: But it is one of those things that everyone thinks 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: they want anyway. I mean, everybody likes the idea of 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: being more creative, and everyone sees the fruits of it 35 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: with if you really cherry pick your examples, well that's 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: the problem. Everybody loves the after effects of creativity versus 37 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: the oddball ideas, the things that people put out there, 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: or even the sort of projects that people are working 39 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: on that seem you know, too strange or uncomfortable in 40 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: order to be accepted. Yeah, now we can. We can 41 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: name numerous individuals who are great examples of Oh they were. 42 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: They were ahead of their time. They were free thinkers, 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: and look how it paid off. The two that you 44 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: were mentioning were who Van Go and Jobs. You know, 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: at the time maybe a little too obsessive. Some people 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: might have thought, oh this is crazy, these ideas are 47 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: coming out of left field. Um. You know, these are 48 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: larger than life characters and they don't really drive with 49 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: everything else that's going on. But but of course now 50 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: and certainly after both their their deaths, they are held 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: up as as figures. I mean, Van Go is a is, 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: a is a legend of of the art world. Uh, 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: Steve jobs is is just cemented as an icon of 54 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: technological innovation. He is. But then you have some people who, 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: again they might be the oddball out. Um, I'm thinking 56 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: about Troy Hart to Bias. He is a Canadian scrap 57 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: metal dealer in nature enthusiasts who, after being attacked by 58 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: a bear, became obsessed with constructing a series of increasingly 59 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: elaborate bear proof suits designed to withstand any onslaught essentially 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: power armor like this crazy sci fi power armor, in 61 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: order for him to do battle with bears or hold 62 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: his own in the Company of Bears, and he said, 63 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, he thinks that there are applications beyond just 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: trying to avoid being mauled by a grizzly. That he 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: thinks that government agencies could actually use this in war 66 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: warfare and whatnot. And he's been turned down again and again. 67 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: One there's the idea, because he just doesn't have the credentials. 68 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: And too it's because it's like this one guy who 69 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 1: became obsessed with a bear suit, right right, Yeah, there's 70 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: a documentary about him, Project Grizzly Who film produced by 71 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: the National Film Board of Canada. I have not actually 72 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: seen it. I really want to. I've seen the trailers 73 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: for it, and it looks like an amazing journey into 74 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: this individual's mind. If you want to check out the 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: stuff he's into now, you can go to his website. 76 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: That's www dot Inventor Troy, that's I n V E 77 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: N T O R t r o y dot com 78 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: and you can see that he is still really into 79 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: crazy sci fi looking combat armor. Yeah, and what does 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: this take. It takes innovation, it takes takes risks financially 81 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: his own really um, but we end up laughing at 82 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: it in the case of Troy, we end up saying 83 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: that guy's a goofball, he's out of touch. He has 84 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: these crazy inventive ideas, but none of them are landing anywhere. 85 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: This is not the kind of person where most big 86 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: corporations would say that's the brain we want setting in 87 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: on our brain storming meetings. That's right, because you know, 88 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: fifty years from now he might be celebrated. They might 89 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: say he really like he had some very crazy ideas. 90 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: And if you look back at Da Vinci and the 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: fact that he made this, what was a wooden automaton 92 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: that sat at his dining table, it's just one of 93 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: his many thought experiments. You know that people sat at 94 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: that dining table with him were like a little office rocker. Yeah, 95 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: but this is necessary. This, this kind of creativity, in 96 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: this idea that you can throw yourself into the void 97 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: and be comfortable with that. Just give this a little 98 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: more background. Here's here just a few noted individuals celebrated 99 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: geniuses who died penniless, who only after their death that 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: really people come back and say that person was a genius. 101 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: We should worship their example. We're talking about Nicola Tesla, 102 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: Vincent van Gogh, Edgar Allan, Poe, Socrates, Oscar Wilde, Herman Melville, 103 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: Stephen Foster, Johannes Guttenberg, and those are some pretty big 104 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: names and the sciences and the arts and in philosophy, 105 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: but world changers, world changers. But it was it was 106 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: only an after effect. And certainly, I'm sure they know 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: any number of these individuals had numerous contemporaries who did 108 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: not have that kind of impact, and it certainly would 109 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: be given more of the Project Grizzly view by corporations 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: or or or even people within their own field. The 111 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: reason for this is that we tend to as humans, 112 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: gravitate towards the middle terrain. And we'll talk more about that. 113 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: But creativity is big problem and why there's a war 114 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: on it is that it contains a risk factor. This 115 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: is really underlying the problem of why a lot of 116 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: people can't get behind it or commit to it. Yeah, 117 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: creative types are risk takers. They tend to buck accepted 118 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and proven trends. They try new things, and they often 119 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: ignore warnings uh from the more cautious among us, even 120 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: after repeated failures. Uh. So you know, it's like the 121 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: grizzly Man. People have been telling him for ages, Hey, 122 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: let's stop making Maybe you should stop making arm and 123 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: maybe this isn't working out, maybe you should try something 124 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: a little more proven. He's not gonna do it. This 125 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: is his thing, this is his dream, and he's following that, 126 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: and he's gonna follow that into the grave, be it 127 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: at the hands of a grizzly bear or a grizzly 128 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: bear in armor. So so there's a there's a riskiness 129 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: in in hitching a ride on these particular stars, right, 130 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: because if you give someone a choice between a large, 131 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: uncertain reward and a certain smaller award, they're always gonna 132 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: go with something that's more of a sure thing. Yeah, 133 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: unless unless the situation is dire, then they're going to 134 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: roll the dice. But Barry M. Star he actually wrote 135 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: in uh. He wrote a great essay in the book 136 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: called Creative Action and Organizations Ire Tower Visions in Real 137 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: World Voices. He wrote that no one really wants creativity, 138 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: especially corporations, because just what you describe, we're talking about 139 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: someone who is deviating from the norm. They're vulnerable, they're obsessive, 140 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: they're sharing information, they're bucking the system. And he says 141 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: the average person may become intrigued when the glorious of 142 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: successful creativity are hailed by the media, but when presented 143 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: with the bald truth that most scientists never come up 144 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: with any earth shaking findings, most new businesses and in failure, 145 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: and most whistleblowers get demoted or fired. It's not surprising 146 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: that most people usually up for a safer, more normal 147 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: life than that followed by the creative. And if you 148 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: think about it, you know, you hear the corporations say 149 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: we want creativity, we want innovation. Well, that doesn't really 150 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: fit in the model of a lot of corporations because 151 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: uncertainty is that the basis here of creativity. And that's 152 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: kind of a dirty word, you know, incorporations. You wanna 153 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: you wanna have every nook and cranny of a corporation 154 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: sanitized of uncertainty, because that is when the presence of 155 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: it could usher in unforeseen costs and turn up revelations 156 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: that might not square with that corporation's culture. Yeah, we've 157 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: we've talked before about about movies and about trying new 158 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: things in Hollywood, and then's you know, the old adds 159 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: that Hollywood rather roll out the same thing every year 160 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: than try something new and but but then you have 161 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: to remind yourself that the production of any big budget film, 162 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a that's a corporation, that's a 163 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: that's an event that involved lots of money, lots of 164 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: people's jobs. Uh some dudes. Yacht may even be on 165 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: the on the line, and all companies of that size. 166 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: It's essentially the same with an oil company. Whereas an 167 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: oil company gonna drill, are they gonna drill where they 168 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: know the oil is? Are they gonna drill where there 169 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: might be oil? And again, we it's just like with 170 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: the noted individuals, the creative outliers that we we look 171 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: back to him, they go, oh, that person was a genius. 172 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: That was a genius. That guy was ahead of his time, 173 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: that woman was ahead of her time. It's it's similar 174 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: with movies. You look at some of the films that 175 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: went on to be cult classics who went on to 176 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: be highly influential on other um filmmakers, and they were 177 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: flops at the time. Big Lebowski, Big Trouble, A Little China, 178 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: Two of my favorite films Clue, Office Space, Fight Club, 179 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: Citizen Kane. Those are all films that when they came out. 180 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: People really didn't know what to make of and they 181 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: didn't make that big of an effect, and they certainly 182 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: didn't make enough money to justify their their existence. It's 183 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: only afterwards that people gravitated towards them and they made 184 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: money and they made a name for themselves. Yeah, that's 185 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: because they were outside of the realm of what you know, 186 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: the usual sort of Hollywood products. Stamp out, uh was 187 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: a part of right, it was outside of that structure. 188 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: And so where that structure is certainty. Right, and again 189 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: talking about uncertainty and risk as being the enemy of creativity, 190 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: now that's not necessarily a bad thing because you think 191 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: about it this way. Are are Magdala's the part of 192 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: the brain that processes fear. They are ramped up in 193 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: situations of uncertainty. All right, this is sort of hardwired 194 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: inness to say, oh, we're not really sure, we're risk adverse. 195 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: We all want to survive. Now, this seems a little 196 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: silly on a Hollywood platform where they're just producing movies, 197 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: but still those people are tied to money, and money 198 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: is seen as survival in our society. Right. So Jack Nitchi, 199 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: a u W. Madison Professor of psychiatry found the uncertainty 200 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: intensifies a person's perception of a bad experience, at least 201 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: in the case of disturbing photos. Um Nitchi showed participants 202 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: and found that the emotional centers and the brain responded 203 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: much more strongly to the material if the person didn't 204 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: know what was coming. So again, we're talking about disturbing photos. 205 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: This is an extreme scenario, but I think that it 206 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: makes the case that in some ways we are overreacting 207 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,599 Speaker 1: to uncertainty because we're hardwired to do that. Yeah, Because ultimately, 208 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: if you take things down to a primal you know, 209 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: life amid the saber tooth tigers example, you want certainty 210 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: in your life as much as you can possibly hoard 211 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: as much as you can possibly grab onto. You want 212 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: the certainty of food, and you want to avoid the 213 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: uncertainty of of a starvation or death at the hands 214 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: of some apex predator out there. And even uh, you know, 215 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: even in some of the small choices in life. As 216 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: much as we we try to think that we're creative 217 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: and we think, oh, you know, I love a highly 218 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: creative work. I love the uncertainty of a of a 219 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: really good book or a really good movie. How how 220 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: much uncertainty are we really comfortable with? Like if I 221 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: were to hand you a book right now and say 222 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: you should read this, I'm not gonna tell you what 223 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: it's called or what it's about, but devote you know 224 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: X and u X hours of your life to reading 225 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: it and just see what happens. You would be hesitant 226 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: to to take that challenge, I would imagine, and so 227 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: would I. I would know about the risk and reward ratio. 228 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: I would say to myself, not really certain here what 229 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: the outcome is going to be there for I will 230 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: default to the norm, which is to push it aside. Yeah, 231 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean one of the big things that we turned 232 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: to the internet for so much is to the vet 233 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: stuff that's coming to us. So even if it is 234 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: a new film that might be dealing with the new idea, 235 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: we want to know who's behind it, who wrote it, 236 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: who's directing it, who start in it, what's their track 237 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: record with success in the past, what do noted critics 238 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: think of it, what do our friends think of it? 239 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: So we in a way, we we still want to 240 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: remove as much uncertainty from our consumption of creative products 241 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: as possible. You know, I was just thinking about the 242 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: normal ty biased episode that we did about how people 243 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: will underreact in a traumatic situation because they want there 244 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: to be that certainty, that the reality that they know. 245 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, the sort of 246 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: patterned reality that we encounter over and over again, this 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: idea of normalcy takes a less of a cognitive load 248 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: on us then novel thoughts and uncertainty. So from a 249 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: survival perspective, you want to go with the thing that's 250 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: sort of known, albeit a little bit wrote and possibly boring. 251 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: You know, one of the tragedies is that some of 252 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: the most memorable experiences of our lives, assuming they're not 253 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: negative and kill us or our injurius or traumatize us, 254 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: are often situations that involve a lot of uncertainty. End 255 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: up going on this adventure, right, And the rare opportunities 256 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: that we do read something or view a film or 257 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: consume some piece of of media without any preconceived notions, 258 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: with with next to zero um in terms of anticipation, like, 259 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: some of those can be the most rewarding experiences because 260 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: you're just flying completely blind into the unknown. But if 261 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: given the choice, it's our our natural evolved instinct to 262 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 1: avoid those kinds of encounters. That's why every once in 263 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: a while you should submit to the crazy makers in 264 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: your life. You know, the people who tried to push 265 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: you into new experiences. Come out to this club, come 266 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: see this play. Yeah, just do it because you could 267 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: get the reward there. All right, let's take a quick break, 268 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: and when we get back, I'm gonna talk a little 269 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: bit more about this biased against creativity and some studies 270 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: that confirm that it exists. Alright, we're back. We're talking 271 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: about creativity and how no matter how much we cling 272 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: to it personally, no matter how much corporations and employers 273 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: will will celebrate creativity in the workplace or make a 274 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: show of it, ultimately we're all a little suspicious of 275 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: the topic to begin with. Yes, there is a paper 276 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: called the Bias against Creativity, Why people desire but reject 277 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: creative ideas and these This paper is by researchers from Cornell, 278 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania and the University of North Carolina, and 279 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: they say, essentially, creative ideas make people uncomfortable. Now, this 280 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: paper is based on two studies from the University of Pennsylvania, 281 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: which involves more than two participants. Yeah, and two experiments. 282 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: They manipulated uncertainty during different models, and the results of 283 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: both experiments demonstrated the existence of negative bias against creativity 284 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: when participants experienced uncertainty. And furthermore, they found that the 285 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: bias against creativity interfered with participants ability to recognize the 286 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: creative idea to begin with. So the results the results 287 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: reveal a concealed barrier that creative actors may face, they say, 288 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: as as they attempt to gain acceptance for their incredible, crazy, 289 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: awesome ideas. Right, because what you're talking about is the 290 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: demand for more of that cognitive load on the brain. 291 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: And then you have the uncertainty factor, and then this 292 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: is so interesting to me that it could actually interfere 293 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: with the person's ability to perceive that as a creative idea. Yeah, 294 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: as it almost as if you know, I can't see 295 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: I've got, you know, hysterical blindness to this idea because 296 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: I'm so overloaded. Yeah, And again, coming back to the 297 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: films and fiction, you so often see like a highly 298 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: creative film that is following an accepted plot path, you know, 299 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: like like none of the plot points or the character 300 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: notes are really going to be that surprising, but it's 301 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: the wrapping that they're in. So even something that is 302 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: on the surface highly creative and highly original is is 303 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: structured in a way that it's very accessible and very uh, 304 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: non frightening. Now, in a nutshell, the paper is saying, Okay, 305 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: the corporations need to take note of this, and if 306 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: they truly want innovation and creativity in the workplace, then 307 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: they need to create a more supportive framework for creativity 308 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: rather than just saying, hey, I want a bunch of 309 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: creative ideas. Because again, if you think about how a 310 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: corporation is set up, um, it tends to default to 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: these these sort of norms in the language you hear 312 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: corporate speak all the time, and the way that people 313 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: dress right, um, bucking the system and and being you know, 314 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: sort of going off on your own is frowned upon. 315 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: Now unless you're looking at a business like Google, which 316 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: you know they there's a whole mandate for just go 317 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: off and do something that you're interested in, because the 318 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: idea is that later on they can take that person's 319 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: novel thinking or or crazy making in the workplace and 320 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: get something out of it later, even if it doesn't 321 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: fit into what's actually going on at that very moment. Yeah, 322 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: but for most of us, there's there's at least some 323 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: sort of if there's not an actual dress code in place, 324 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: and there's an implied dress code there, you know, unless 325 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: it's you know, freaky Friday or Halloween or whatever kind 326 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: of day you might have. Yeah, it's that you have 327 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: to wear pants rule in our office, which which totally 328 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: messes with my creative vibe. Okay, So we recently moved 329 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: to a new location and we are sharing a space 330 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: with one part of the business that is involved with sales, 331 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: and then the other part of the business is editorial us. Right, 332 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: and we have two different sides of this office space. 333 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: Did you know I recently found out that the sales 334 00:17:55,040 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: department calls us the dark Side. Well, that's interesting because 335 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: it reminds me very much of that episode we did 336 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: about the tidally locked worlds. Yes, and I mentioned an 337 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: old sci fi novel about a world where half the 338 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: world is in dark and as half the world is 339 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: in light and on the light side they're ruled by science, 340 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: and the dark side they're ruled by magic. So maybe 341 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: we're like that they're the science with the magic. Well, 342 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: I think initially they called us that because we are 343 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: all apparently sensitive to light, and so we don't have 344 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: any overhead lighting on our side. But you know, this 345 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: weird aversion to harsh artificial light. But we also dressed 346 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: maybe a little nutty, because we don't have to go 347 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: out on sales calls. I will venture to say that 348 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: the break room talk is bizarre just because of the 349 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: amount of topics we're covering. So I kind of I 350 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: sort of love that they have decided to call us 351 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: the dark side. I'll accept it, embrace that. Yeah, Yeah, 352 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: all right, that was a bit of a diversion. Let's 353 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: get back to this idea of creativity and particularly among children, 354 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: because we talked about this before. Children are great at 355 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: dealing with un certainty and making all sorts of new 356 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: associations between things. Yeah, and they are often a great 357 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: place to go for your creative thought. I mean, they'll 358 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: come up with this crazy ideas like I've mentioned. I 359 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: mentioned before going to Uncle Grahampa's the uh, the children's 360 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: puppet show UH that they do here in Atlanta, where 361 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: they let the children shout out ideas for the improv 362 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: puppeteers to then use and at one point to a 363 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: puppeteer said hey, all right, we need a name for 364 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: the princess. What would the princess's name be? And one 365 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: little girl shouted out Batman the girl which is which 366 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: was just hilarious at the time and and just not 367 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: the kind of idea you would expect an adult to 368 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: come up with. Or likewise, there's I think it's called 369 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: Axe Cop. There's like a whole like web series turned 370 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: cartoon series where the ideas originated with this little girl 371 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: and then her her father took the ideas and they 372 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: were you know, it was like goofy stuff, like here's 373 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: a cop and he's on the beat, but for some 374 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: reason he runs around with an axe instead of that 375 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: I've done. So on the surface of things, you would think, 376 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: all right, well, children are just a font if creativity. 377 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: They're just these you know, just wonderful, crazy abstract thoughts, 378 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: just just just bubbling out of the ground. But a 379 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: two thousand ten study, uh, gives us a little more 380 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: information to go on and shows that creativity at les 381 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: American children is actually down in recent years. Yeah, we're 382 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: gonna roll out from these stats here. Sorry about giving 383 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: you the sads, but we're talking about three hundred thousand 384 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: creativity tests going back to the nineteen seventies. Young He Kim, 385 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: a creative a creativity researcher at the College of William 386 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: and Mary, found creativity has decreased among American children, and 387 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: since children have become less able to produce unique and 388 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: unusual ideas, they're also less humorous, less imaginative, and less 389 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: able to elaborate on ideas, according to Kim, and the 390 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: researchers point to a tightly bound education environment like those 391 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: such as No Child Left Behind, an Act of Congress 392 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: pass in two thousand and one that requires schools to 393 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: administer annual standardized tests as a way to assess whether 394 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: they are meeting state educ catian standards. Now, this inadvertently 395 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: hamstrings what and how educators teach and in the scenarios, 396 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: typically teachers don't get to learn to spend a lot 397 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: of time exploring unexpected ideas, so kids as a result, 398 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: they begin to fall in line with the material that 399 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: they're teaching in a very stringent way and anticipating what 400 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: the teacher wants to hear, as opposed to really taking 401 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: that idea and showing it around in their mind and 402 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: um and exercising their critical thinking abilities. Yeah, they end 403 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: up teaching the tests. They end up teaching the expected 404 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: rather than celebrated the unexpected and the unknown. Uh. And 405 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: and as we've touched on before with creativity, this isn't 406 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: just a situation of all they're going to produce less 407 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: English majors and failed musicians. No, creativity is a is 408 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: an essential part of not only artistic endeavor, but scientific endeavor. Uh. 409 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: It's it's something that empowers just about any field. Um. 410 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: And one of these children may go into or dream 411 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: of going into when they reach adulthood. It's one of 412 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: the cornerstone indicators that predicts future success for a child. 413 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: So you look at this data and you'll say, okay, 414 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: well SAT scores are rising in these couple of decades, 415 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: but the scores on divergent thinking are tanking. And that 416 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: divergent thinking is what makes or breaks the ability of 417 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: a child to really think about a topic. Not just 418 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: with creativity, but but bring us sort of full three 419 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: sixty understanding to it. Yeah, save the tooth, tiger and 420 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: the bushes not a standardized test. The sciences, the arts 421 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: not standardized tests. So I mean it makes sense. It's sad, 422 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: but it makes sense. And again that the two study 423 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: is not just a study, but a study of studies 424 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: of the thousand different creativity tests going back to the seventies, 425 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: So again she was pulling from a vast well of data. 426 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: Now it gets even worse. It turns out that kids 427 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: creative students maybe discriminated against in the classroom. There's a 428 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: paper called creativity Asset or Burden in the Classroom, and 429 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: there are two studies that were conducted to examine teachers 430 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: perceptions of creative students. Study one was based on earlier 431 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: works that identified personality characteristics associated with creativity, so that 432 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: created the baseline. The prototypicality of these characteristics as they 433 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: applied to creative children was rated by college students. Elementary 434 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: school teachers were then asked to rate their favorite and 435 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: least favorite students based on these characteristics. So what happened 436 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: is that the teacher actually ended up favoring kids who 437 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: were pleasers or satisfiers and more readily followed directions and 438 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: did what they were told, which kind of makes sense 439 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: when we talk about this environment in which you have 440 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: very stringent requirements. Yeah, and just I mean also just 441 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: the reality of being a teacher. I mean, I don't 442 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: have a big background as a teacher. I only taught 443 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: for a very short period of time high school English. 444 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: I was not I was not really all that trained. 445 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: I was just kind of a warm body they could 446 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: put in when a teacher left. But but and you know, 447 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: with that brief experience, I can see you know you 448 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: want you don't want the kids that are behavior problem. 449 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: You want the kids that are gonna do what you 450 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: you say, and and by other rules and perform well. 451 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: And as much as you might hate to admit it, 452 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: you don't want kids that are gonna clog up the 453 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: gear work of the classroom with too many questions. I 454 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: guess yeah, But it's so sad because it's you know, 455 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: those are the times when the child is really trying 456 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: to grasp the topic by going outside of what you 457 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: would normally perceive as the Okay, here's the answer, um, 458 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: Because everybody knows that in a situation outside of the 459 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: classroom too. You could be in an office situation and 460 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: someone to ask invariably we'll ask that question that kind 461 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: of makes everybody have a headache. But the reason is 462 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: because they are truly thinking about it and trying to 463 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: wrap their brains around it. So there should be that 464 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: space for students. But instead, if a student knows that 465 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: they are being discriminated against, they might avoid creative thoughts 466 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: to better fit in and not feel socially ostracized. And 467 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: I was thinking about, uh, this this idea of students 468 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: in classrooms who are sometimes given empty praise. It's called 469 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: the praise paradox. And there's this idea that if you 470 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: give a kid empty praise, they perceive it is that 471 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: they're not doing well. And so even that just these 472 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: like little nuanced things that teach, these interactions to the 473 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: teachers and students really make or break how that that 474 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: student is going to respond intellectually. Yeah, I mean, looking 475 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: back on elementary school for myself, I mean that the 476 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: classes that I was most into were the ones where 477 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: we discussed stuff where there was like an open forum 478 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: at least at the end of class, where you could 479 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: just ask questions in order or discuss the the history 480 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: you were you were talking about, the story you were reading. 481 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: It certainly wasn't math class, but but yeah, science classes, 482 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: social studies, uh, literature. I can remember specific classes where 483 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: there was that situation where you felt like those who 484 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: were hungry for knowledge. We're going to be fit right 485 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: and you know, obviously I'm not in it right now. 486 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: You you're not in it right now. So we don't 487 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: know the absolute environment. We can only talk in generalities 488 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: that are painted in some of these studies. But here's 489 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: the bright side of being an oddball and in asking 490 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: those questions and creating at least. I guess you could 491 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: call it an intellectual problem. Um, if you fly your 492 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: freak flag, it could be a good thing. There's a 493 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelfth study by JOHNS Hopkins University business 494 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: professor Sharon Kim, and she found that social rejection can 495 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: inspire imaginative thinking, particularly in individuals with a strong sense 496 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: of their own independence. I can I can definitely relate 497 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: to that, and having had virtually no friends throughout junior 498 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: high like that was the time of a lot of 499 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: creative development for me, I think, well, yeah, I mean, 500 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: the paper is basically saying that this rejection effect can 501 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: liberate creative people from the need to fit in, and 502 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: then then they can go and pursue their interests. Like 503 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: I remember specifically thinking it's like, all right, it kind 504 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: of sucks when I'm at school, and my whole social environment, 505 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, my family is great, I 506 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: don't have any friends at school, so I'm just gonna 507 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: read as many like Stephen King and J. R. Tolkien 508 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: books as possible, and and I just retreated into those. 509 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: So are just retreated into uh, into fiction and into 510 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, creative thought. Yeah, I know, there's a there's 511 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: a sort of aha moment where it's like, I'm never 512 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: gonna be able to please these people. Therefore, I'm going 513 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: to go be my freaky self and it's gonna be 514 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: fun because this weekend I'm going to self hypnotize folks. Well, 515 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess one of the tragedies too, though, 516 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: is that we were talking, we talked about the teenage brain, 517 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: and I feel like we're I often will think back 518 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: on my my my Maize in high school and junior 519 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: high and I think, if I had to relive that 520 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: all again, it's some sort of weird sci fi scenario happened, 521 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: and I found myself with my current mind in my 522 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: junior high uh, existence, like what would I do differently? 523 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: And it's really a false situation to try to imagine. 524 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: Because our hormones are coming out a totally different cocktail 525 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: at that point, and our brains are hardwired to want 526 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: these people to like us. Uh. So there's there's a 527 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: big hurdle there in being the you know, the the 528 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: just forget all you people, uh, freak flag flying creative individual. Yeah, 529 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: and you have the other problem that underscores at all 530 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: is that that social rejection, the pain of it. And 531 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: we talked about this in the teenage brain that feels 532 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: like actual pain. It is so ramped up in the 533 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: amygdala at that age that you can't ignore. It's like 534 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: a siren going off. So it takes a very strong 535 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: constitution to get past that point to say it's okay 536 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: that I'm working outside of the norm and you know this, 537 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: it's liberating and I can now go and do the 538 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: thing that makes me happiest and that I'm really passionate about. 539 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: All Right, Well, there you have it. Uh, just a 540 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: little more insight into creativity itself, and especially into the 541 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: war and creativity, if you will, the stone cold fact 542 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: that as awesome as creativity is, as important as creativity 543 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: is in all these various sub fields from the arts 544 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: of the sciences, we have a built in aversion to 545 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: it and uh, and it makes a lot of sense 546 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: from just an evolutionary standpoint. Yeah, and some of you 547 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: may be relieved to find this information out. If you've 548 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: ever been throwing out some ideas and you feel like 549 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: people aren't listening to them, just know that, you know, 550 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: it may be that their their thought forces are so 551 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: clouded by the cognitive load of it that they truly 552 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: cannot understand what you're talking about or see it. Because 553 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: it does there's this element of uncertainty. So there's there's 554 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: a worth in understanding that perspective and maybe being able 555 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: to repackage it. Yeah, all right, If you want to 556 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: check out all the creative stuff that we're up to, 557 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: various episodes, to all the podcast episodes, all the blog post, 558 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: all the videos, you can find them a stuff to 559 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: blow your mind dot com that's our mothership, our homepage 560 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: that's constantly update who all sorts of cool content. And 561 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: you also find links there to our various social media 562 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: as such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Google Plus, SoundCloud, you 563 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: name it, find us on the one that you use, 564 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: and then you can follow us. Indeed, and if you 565 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: would like to send us an email, you can do 566 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: so at below the mind at Discovery dot com. For 567 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 568 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com.