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Speaker 1: Ooh, are you E and M. I don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: one more thing, I'm strong andy, one more.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, I have no idea where this is going E, NM,

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Speaker 2: you say, I'd say on your bumble dating profile thingy

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Speaker 2: the dating website.

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Speaker 1: Ten percent at least our E and M lists themselves

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Speaker 1: as E and M. We'll get to that in a second. First,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to hear the thing about the ghosting and

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Speaker 1: that trend in dating. Can we hear that?

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Speaker 3: Michael, you're dating somebody, you're talking, you haven't defined anything,

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Speaker 3: everything's going well. They text you good morning, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're feeling good about it, and then all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden they disappear. There's no explanation, there's no why, just crickets.

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Speaker 3: And then some time passes and they pop.

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Speaker 1: Back up again.

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Speaker 3: And here's the catch. They act like nothing happened. They

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Speaker 3: don't acknowledge the absence. They don't say, hey, sorry, I

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Speaker 3: had a couple of days that we're really busy at work.

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Speaker 4: It's just like, hey, what's up? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: That's called ghost lighting, So I guess it's a combination

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Speaker 1: of ghosting and gas lighting. No, it's not.

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Speaker 4: Had someone do that to me? And he was a narcissist.

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Speaker 1: That was about it. So you disappear and then you

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Speaker 1: come back as if you didn't disappear.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just expecting everything was going to be just fine,

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Speaker 4: and it's not.

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Speaker 1: I think I've done that with people. Not on purpose, though,

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Speaker 1: but it is a good indication that you're not quite

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Speaker 1: as into it as they were hoping.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm torn between conflicting impulses, admiring the

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Speaker 5: cleverness of the term ghost lighting while despising internet trends

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Speaker 5: in general.

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Speaker 1: I'm say, who are you?

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Speaker 5: Who?

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Speaker 1: Is awful? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: It just does again as a word smith, I appreciate

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Speaker 5: the trickery there. Uh yeah, I mentioned this tour. The

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Speaker 5: show could paid off now, China maxing is the hottest

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Speaker 5: new online trend. Here's a question for you. And I'm

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Speaker 5: not even gonna get into that. I don't want to

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Speaker 5: dignify it.

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Speaker 1: But well, we got to find out what E and

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Speaker 1: M means. So oh, I can't wait.

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Speaker 5: How much longer will people fall for the clickbait of

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Speaker 5: here's the hottest new trend online because it's always stupid.

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Speaker 5: It's five people who did something. It's not a trend.

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Speaker 5: It's the way human beings behave. I think that's got

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Speaker 5: maybe three four more months in it. Then nobody will

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Speaker 5: click on that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well, this particular article I hold in my hand is

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Speaker 1: trying to claim that open relationships are on the rise

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and I know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's actually true or not. All kinds of online

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Speaker 1: surveyed data stuff the States gear it's most likely to

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Speaker 1: have an open relationship Texas, California, Florida, Georgia, New York. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe not. I don't know, but it does have

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Speaker 1: a couple of things in here that I'm aware of

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Speaker 1: their existence, though I don't participate myself. Terms that I

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Speaker 1: don't know what polyfidelity is that one I actually don't know.

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Speaker 1: But em yes.

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Speaker 5: It means you got like two lovers and you're faithful

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Speaker 5: to the two of them.

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Speaker 1: Well, the why is that difference than E and M,

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Speaker 1: Because that's what E and M is ethical non monogamy.

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Speaker 1: And I've seen that listed lots of places. I had

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Speaker 1: to look that up and then I'm a no, I

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Speaker 1: don't quite get the thing there.

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Speaker 5: I've read about it. You come to an agreement about

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Speaker 5: what the parameters are. They're non monogamous, but you like, say, hey,

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking of sleeping with the barrista down the street,

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Speaker 5: and you let each other know or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Ethical non monogamy is where three or more people

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Speaker 1: in a closed group agree to exclusively have sex with

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Speaker 1: one of another. It's just the three of us or

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Speaker 1: the four of us, or whatever number you come up with,

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Speaker 1: and then you're honest about it, which differentiates it from

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Speaker 1: cheating or infidelity or whatever. I don't know, I don't I.

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Speaker 4: Don't have either. Have you ever been propositioned into this ever?

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Speaker 1: Ah, my neighbor many many, many many years ago, gladys,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a long time ago.

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Speaker 6: Okay.

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Speaker 1: My neighbor asked my wife when they were both drunk,

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Speaker 1: if we wanted to bring him into our relationship, which

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Speaker 1: we both howled in laughter at the idea of DNM.

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Speaker 5: Drunk non monogamy.

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Speaker 1: Just seemed ridiculous on for a number of reasons. But

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Speaker 1: that's as far as I go. Yes, Katie, you're a young,

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Speaker 1: attractive woman. I could see how this would be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I was at some well, this this is my first mistake.

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Speaker 6: I met some bartender at a club in San Francisco.

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Speaker 6: But we were talking a majority of the night and

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Speaker 6: even took a picture together.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, the next day he sends me a text message

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Speaker 6: and it said something along the lines of, hey, I

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Speaker 6: showed my fiance our photo and she would really like

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Speaker 6: it if you would come over and join us. And

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Speaker 6: this was I mean fifteen years ago or so, so

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Speaker 6: this was kind of before all this stuff came onto

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Speaker 6: the internet, and it freaked me the hell out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so how.

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Speaker 4: Was It's very good?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I said, uh no, thanks, you know.

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Speaker 1: But that's the three of you together, that's a threesome.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: They wanted me, Yeah, they wanted me to join their relationship.

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Speaker 1: My sense of the ethical non monogamy thing is that

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Speaker 1: the three of you aren't together in a bed ever,

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Speaker 1: it's just you pair off the three or four of

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Speaker 1: your how whatever the number is.

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Speaker 5: It's like you're in the same league exactly.

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Speaker 1: You're all in the NBA West right exactly, and you

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Speaker 1: each do your thing and you all know what's going

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Speaker 1: on and you're okay with it.

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Speaker 5: But no dore to circle and get diseases or complicate things, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have no interest in that. Like zerolated, well,

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Speaker 1: I just emotionally, well, sexually, emotionally everything. It just it

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Speaker 1: doesn't appeal to me. I guess it appeals to some people.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, clearly it does. I'm not made that way either.

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Speaker 5: I admire it in a way because they're like, I'm

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Speaker 5: not monogamous, I don't plan to be, but I'm not

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Speaker 5: a liar and I know anybody's feelings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's I guess a step in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. But how do you avoid the anybody in

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Speaker 1: the group thinking, boy, you had a date with him

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Speaker 1: three times last week and you haven't had a date

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Speaker 1: with me in two weeks. Seems like you date him

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Speaker 1: more than you date me. I mean, how do you

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Speaker 1: not end up with that at some point in one

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Speaker 1: direction or the other. I think it's very that you

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Speaker 1: don't right right. I think I'm guessing in a lot

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Speaker 1: of these things. The most attractive person, male or female,

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Speaker 1: often who can just pick and choose with who and

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Speaker 1: whenever they want. Feels like everybody is as comfortable with

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Speaker 1: it as they are. I'm kind of like setting the standard.

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Speaker 5: I've read a couple of long pieces of writing. I

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Speaker 5: can't remember if it was like The Free Press or

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Speaker 5: New York Times magazine or something I was in an

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Speaker 5: open relationship. I was fine with it and grew to

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Speaker 5: hate it. And I've come across a couple of things

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Speaker 5: like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, right, I mean, if you're both equally attractive and

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Speaker 1: have equal options, I suppose it possibly could work for

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Speaker 1: But if one of you is like, got all kinds

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Speaker 1: of options in the other one doesn't, or it's taking

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Speaker 1: advantage of all kinds of obe, I just wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: there'd be a chance of that. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've never done it, and I have no interest in

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Speaker 1: doing it. But I was surprised how often you see

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Speaker 1: E and M on people's profiles in the dating app

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Speaker 1: thing more than I mean, it's not like very rare.

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Speaker 1: It's not. It's not the common. It's nothing close to

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Speaker 1: the majority. It's fairly common, probably mostly younger people. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't actually know. Why did you bring

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Speaker 1: me this article, Michael, want to a trip to your

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Speaker 1: trigger about it? You seem to be really interested. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and your you and your wife and your cats.

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Speaker 5: No, No, it's just it was put in front of

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Speaker 5: the hill. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I do think my cats may be gay.

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Speaker 4: I was going to ask that my next question do

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Speaker 4: we have that song for me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no reason not to play that again.

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Speaker 4: That stupid song was in my head for it.

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Speaker 1: That's stupid.

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Speaker 5: It's an earworm. And you got to bring your cats

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Speaker 5: to the vet to make sure they don't get that.

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Speaker 5: I want to know if the game, if they are brothers.

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Speaker 4: I want to know if they if they are, do

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Speaker 4: I happy cats that.

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Speaker 1: My cats are gay? Gay cats?

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Speaker 4: They are gay?

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Speaker 5: Then that's okay?

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Speaker 4: Do you gay cats?

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Speaker 2: Gay cat?

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Speaker 1: The d gay cat?

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Speaker 5: It's so perfect?

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Speaker 1: Uh, maybe your cats are E and M. They want

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Speaker 1: to bring another kitten in or something?

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Speaker 5: Tom, Yeah, a kitten, No, that'd be sick.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what what if there are age limits

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Speaker 1: and cats, I don't know what the ethics are for

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Speaker 1: gage of consent now means me how you perfect cat pervert? Anyway? Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's it.