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Speaker 1: Hi Guys, and welcome to a new episode of you

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Speaker 1: need therapy podcast. My name is Kat and I am

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Speaker 1: the host, and today's a special day because I took

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Speaker 1: a little many break the last two weeks and we

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Speaker 1: played some of my favorite old episodes and now I'm

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Speaker 1: back for a brand new episode that you have not

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Speaker 1: had the chance to hear yet. I am so excited

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Speaker 1: for you to hear it. Before we get into anything

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Speaker 1: and I introduced our guest, quick reminder that, although I'm

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Speaker 1: a therapist, this podcast does not serve as therapy or replacement,

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Speaker 1: but it might help you along your mental health journey somewhere, somehow.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to get right to it because

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Speaker 1: this is a interview. I didn't really feel like an interview,

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Speaker 1: but it was an interview that I have been waiting

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Speaker 1: to do for a really long time. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those people that I was like, I would like to

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Speaker 1: reach out to her, but I doubt you'll actually see

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Speaker 1: my message or give it thought, because I just think

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Speaker 1: of her as a trail blazer in her Um Line

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Speaker 1: of work and I look up to her a lot

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Speaker 1: of what she does, even though, and we'll talk about it,

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Speaker 1: I might not agree with everything she talks about, but

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Speaker 1: I just love the kind of content she puts out

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Speaker 1: and the energy she has and she's just so educated

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Speaker 1: and so easy to talk to. So let me introduce her.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Liz plank and I found her through

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Speaker 1: interviewing Justin Baldoni last summer. than he had this podcast

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Speaker 1: called man enough, and she's a Co host of that,

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Speaker 1: and so that's how I found her and started following her.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read you a little bit of her bio

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Speaker 1: because it is very impressive and I just want you

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Speaker 1: to have some background of why this person honestly has

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Speaker 1: so much power in her opinion, because so much of

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Speaker 1: her opinion, so much of her work, is backed by

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge. So

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Speaker 1: Liz is a filmmaker, award winning journalist in her nation,

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Speaker 1: best selling author and has been the executive producer and

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Speaker 1: host of several critically acclaimed digital series at vox media

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Speaker 1: and NBC News. Her most recent critically acclaimed book, for

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Speaker 1: the love of men, a vision for mindful masculinity, was

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Speaker 1: featured in vogue, esquire, playboy, l magazine, G Q, NPR,

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post, on Morning Joe and on Dak Shepherd's

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Speaker 1: armchair expert. She Co hosts the main enough podcast with

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Speaker 1: Justin Baldoni and Jamie Heath as well, and that's the

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Speaker 1: podcast that I mentioned before. She's the CEO of Liz

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Speaker 1: plank productions and is a columnist for MSNBC and has

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Speaker 1: been listed as one of Forbes thirty under thirty, media

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Speaker 1: it its most influential and news media and Reclaire's most

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Speaker 1: powerful women, and she was named one of the world's

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Speaker 1: most influential people in gender policy by a political through

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Speaker 1: her activism and creative approached to journalism, Liz has made

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Speaker 1: it her mission to elevate the voices of those who

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Speaker 1: are often not heard. Before coming a journalist, Liz worked

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Speaker 1: at a community center for people with disabilities and was

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Speaker 1: a researcher and Behavioral Science Consultant at the London School

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Speaker 1: of Economics, from which she holds a master's degree, and policy,

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Speaker 1: with an emphasis in global gender politics. I mean, doesn't

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Speaker 1: she sound amazing, like she sounds so freaking great, because

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Speaker 1: she is great. And I will preface this conversation because

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Speaker 1: I kept saying, before we get into what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk to or before we talk about what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about today, and the thing is we never

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Speaker 1: got there because our conversation was so great that there

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Speaker 1: was not space or time for us to get to

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Speaker 1: originally why I had reached out and what I thought

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Speaker 1: we were going to talk about, which is honestly for

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Speaker 1: the best, because the conversation was just so good and

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Speaker 1: what we were talking about just couldn't be stopped. And

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Speaker 1: what I hope for you, guys, is this podcast feels

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Speaker 1: less like you're listening to a podcast and more like

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Speaker 1: you're listening to two passionate people having a conversation, having

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Speaker 1: a safe conversation, and hopefully that gives you some umph

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Speaker 1: to have some safe conversations in your life well today.

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Speaker 1: If you want more of Liz, you can listen to

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Speaker 1: her on the man enough podcast, you can read her

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Speaker 1: book for the love of men, and you can follow

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Speaker 1: her on instagram and her instagram handle, I'm gonna say

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Speaker 1: and spell it. It's feminist Tabulus. I didn't say that right. Feminist,

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Speaker 1: the fabulous. The thing is her is a room handle.

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Speaker 1: I don't actually know how you pronounced and I should

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Speaker 1: have asked that, but how you spell it is f

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Speaker 1: e M I N I S T A B U

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Speaker 1: L O U S. I'm gonna put that in the

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Speaker 1: show notes and you can just click the link and

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Speaker 1: then you can, Um, you know, tell me how to

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Speaker 1: pronounce that. Feminist Tabulus, feminist tabulist. I want to say

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Speaker 1: feminist to Abulus, but it's not feminist abulus, feminist abulus. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm done. Anyway, thank you, Liz, for this conversation, because

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Speaker 1: it brightened my Friday and I can't wait for everybody

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Speaker 1: to hear it and I hope you guys have the

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Speaker 1: day you need to have. I will talk to you

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Speaker 1: guys on Wednesday for couch shocks. Here is my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Liz. Well them, Liz plank, to the podcast. Thank you. Thanks,

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Speaker 1: so excited. I'm so, so excited. I learned about you

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Speaker 1: I think this is when I learned about you, when

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Speaker 1: I got Justin's book last year and then I started

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Speaker 1: reading it and I was like, Oh my God, I

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Speaker 1: had to talk to this person, and so he came

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Speaker 1: on the podcast last year and I think it was

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Speaker 1: right after y'all started the man enough podcast. I want

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Speaker 1: to say I'm like totally strong in that timing, but

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Speaker 1: that's how I got introduced to you and then started

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Speaker 1: following you and watching all of your reels, which are

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Speaker 1: really fun. Um, they're just like helpful, but also they

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Speaker 1: just look like you have a lot of fun when

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Speaker 1: you make them too. Yeah, I do. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: how I play really like and it's funny because I

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Speaker 1: was just I'm launching a podcast with Monica Padmin where

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Speaker 1: we were like freezing our eggs together. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: making her do all these reels, and so I have

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Speaker 1: to understand that like, for some people, making reels is

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Speaker 1: not fun, it's actually stressful, and so it's, weirdly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sort of my go to to enjoy myself, but I

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Speaker 1: also realized for a lot of people it's like not

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Speaker 1: because I love doing it with other people. That's like

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Speaker 1: my favorite, my favorite thing. But yeah, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: other conversation which you won't get into, but I just

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Speaker 1: want to mention is like you saying that that's how

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Speaker 1: I have fun and I get enjoyment and it's helpful

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Speaker 1: in work and what I do there. And I know

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Speaker 1: that that everybody doesn't operate like that and some people

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Speaker 1: just like work to have to crank out all of

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Speaker 1: this content and what you can tell, though, like, I

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Speaker 1: think what the reason I want to say that is

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Speaker 1: you can tell when you watch your stuff that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like you're sitting in the room all day

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Speaker 1: being like what should I post today? I have to.

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Speaker 1: They just look natural and thanks. That means a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean sometimes I am like I gotta post something,

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Speaker 1: but but I I really yeah, I get so much

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Speaker 1: enjoyment and I hope that they're like useful for people. Right.

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Speaker 1: I think in this weird creator economy where there's this

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Speaker 1: pressure to produce and create Um, it can make, I think,

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Speaker 1: creative people I feel like it's a it's a product

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Speaker 1: that they have to put out. And I think when

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Speaker 1: I'm able to align with okay, what is what would

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Speaker 1: be helpful to, you know, my community, what would be

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Speaker 1: helpful to people? What? What would I need to hear

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Speaker 1: right now? It is probably what a lot of other people,

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Speaker 1: you know, need to hear right now. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I try and align this. I'm glad that it's the

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Speaker 1: intention is shining through. So people already know who you

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Speaker 1: are in one aspect. But before we jump into everything,

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Speaker 1: I am interested personally and I just think that people

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Speaker 1: might want to know as well. How do you like

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Speaker 1: to be introduced and or what do you like people

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Speaker 1: to know about you before they hear anything that you

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Speaker 1: have to say? That's such a cool question. How would

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Speaker 1: I like to be introduced? It's funny. We were work,

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Speaker 1: I work a lot on a you know, subportion rights,

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Speaker 1: and I'm on the board of May Day health and

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Speaker 1: we were having a meeting where we were trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, I don't know, just what my kind of

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Speaker 1: role should be and what everyone's role should be, which

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Speaker 1: I think is a good thing to do whenever you're

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Speaker 1: with you working with a group of people, so that

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Speaker 1: roles are clear and you're doing something that not only

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Speaker 1: your you know, good at, but that you enjoy doing.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't done my personality, the Antagram or whatever. I

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Speaker 1: just start. Haven't done yeah, I haven't done it and

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Speaker 1: I really need to just do it, and they were

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Speaker 1: like what's your you know, and I was like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, and they're like okay, well, how would you

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Speaker 1: like to be like remembered or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: which I think is, you know, very similar to your question,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, as someone who like helped,

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Speaker 1: like like like someone who like helped and whatever that

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Speaker 1: is right, small or bigger, and so that's, I guess

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Speaker 1: my yeah, my aspiring ideal of myself is that I've

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Speaker 1: been I've left people better than how I like found them,

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Speaker 1: and I don't often feel like I'm successful in my,

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Speaker 1: you know, personal or even work life, and I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's how I would love to be, though, in

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Speaker 1: the world, and I think when I'm the most again,

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Speaker 1: you mean coming back to this kind of sillier conversation

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Speaker 1: about reels, like I feel the best when I know

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Speaker 1: that that what I'm creating is helping people and I

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Speaker 1: don't feel aligned when it's like coming from a place

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Speaker 1: of scarcity or a place of like, Oh, I have

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Speaker 1: to get more, you know, engagement, or I have to

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Speaker 1: get more people to subscribe to my thing. I think

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Speaker 1: it feels the most authentic and good for me when

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Speaker 1: I'm aligned with like, Oh, this is just helping like

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Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so that is actually really nice to

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Speaker 1: hear somebody say who has a larger following, because I

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Speaker 1: went through, and I talked about this on the podcast

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Speaker 1: a couple months ago and then I took a little break,

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Speaker 1: but I went through this moment of really a lot

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Speaker 1: of introspection on like why, what am I doing with

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Speaker 1: the podcast, with like social media, like what am I doing?

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Speaker 1: Because I listener sent me this real and it was

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Speaker 1: a therapist, I think of therapist. Was a fairly large

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Speaker 1: following for a therapist on social media and uh, they

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Speaker 1: just said like would love to hear your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: what this person is saying. And the person didn't say

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Speaker 1: anything that was like blatantly wrong, but they also didn't

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Speaker 1: say anything that was like totally truthful. It was very

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Speaker 1: much like a niche thing that could apply but also

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Speaker 1: like was way over simplified, but also presented in a

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Speaker 1: way that was like this is the truth. And it

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Speaker 1: asked this isn't your experience, then you're doing it wrong.

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Speaker 1: And why? I started thinking about why might that person

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Speaker 1: have put that out there as a therapist, like why?

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Speaker 1: Why would I be putting a podcast out or writing

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Speaker 1: a post? And I come from that place of like

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Speaker 1: my job is to help people and yeah, that I

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Speaker 1: have to own that. Like I get something out of

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Speaker 1: helping people. It feels good, it makes me feel like

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Speaker 1: I've purpose all that and I think we have a responsibility,

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Speaker 1: even if you're in a therapist, but especially if you

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Speaker 1: are in that realm. We have a certain ethical guidelines

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Speaker 1: we have to follow. You really be careful about what

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Speaker 1: it is that we're putting out in the world, what

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Speaker 1: it is that we're saying to our clients and what

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Speaker 1: is that we're saying to the general public, because there'd

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Speaker 1: be such a personal thing. So it's nice to hear

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Speaker 1: you say that. Like what I'm aiming to do is

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Speaker 1: to help people, not to gain a following. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: having a following helps me help people. Yeah, the purpose

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Speaker 1: of what I put out there isn't like I want

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Speaker 1: to get three thousand million re shares so then more

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Speaker 1: people see my profile. There has to be strategy around

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Speaker 1: like being somebody who's like owning a business or, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to survive and make money in the world. But

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Speaker 1: they're also when we pick certain areas, we also have

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Speaker 1: to hold that like ethical part. That, to me feels

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Speaker 1: very important and I've just realized that for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, and I realized it's from a working in

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Speaker 1: therapy space, that a lot of people who are therapists

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Speaker 1: are like capitalizing on mental health, becoming, I hate using

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Speaker 1: the word trendy, but like it is. Yeah, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I'm like, and I had to do a whole like

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Speaker 1: who do I keep following? Who Do I unfollow? And

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Speaker 1: then I was like, I gotta make my profile private.

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Speaker 1: I have to put some it's public now, but I

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Speaker 1: changed the way I post from like the podcast Catherine

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Speaker 1: as the human like follow my page, like it's just

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Speaker 1: my life, unless you just want to see that. But

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Speaker 1: if you want mental health information, that's on the podcast page,

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Speaker 1: because I didn't want it to be about me, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. So that was just a long oneded

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Speaker 1: way to say I really appreciate your answer. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm with you, like I also think

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Speaker 1: that this and I'm very curious about you think. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's too much mental health content, which

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Speaker 1: feels wrong to say because I know I'm glad. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man. I'm like I feel like everything is

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Speaker 1: hard now, like like, Oh my God, and it's hard.

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Speaker 1: Friendships are hard because everyone's very, I guess, more more

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Speaker 1: literate in mental health awareness and language. But, but, but

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there's like an overliteracy where it's like well,

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Speaker 1: that's a red flag or that's you know, and people

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Speaker 1: you know, exiting relationships or or or isolating, you know,

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Speaker 1: from from people because it's fitting into something that they've

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Speaker 1: read and this very black or white right and this

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Speaker 1: idea that you have to like protect yourself from toxic

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Speaker 1: people and toxic relationships and everything's gaslighting everything, you know.

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Speaker 1: And and I, yeah, I grapple with that because I noticed.

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Speaker 1: I think part of it is that we all became

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Speaker 1: more mentally ill. I know you're not supposed to say that,

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Speaker 1: but whatever, like we all became more just like unstable,

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Speaker 1: because the world we live in, our environment, is unstable,

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Speaker 1: which is a euphemism for what we're going through in

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Speaker 1: this global pandemic and all of it. But I wonder

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Speaker 1: if we've like overcorrected. And Yeah, I'm finding it so

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Speaker 1: like I think about dating. You know, I'm single and

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Speaker 1: thirty five. Like dating when I was twenty five was

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Speaker 1: so or even five years ago, I feel like even

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Speaker 1: when I was thirty, like it was just more like

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Speaker 1: I saw this Tiktok, this woman, was like dating now

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Speaker 1: is like give me your purse and and like that's

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Speaker 1: the best way for me to put it. It's that

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Speaker 1: it's like you because some, you know, people are on

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Speaker 1: the break right, and then they're meeting another person that's

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Speaker 1: hanging by a single thread, and then you put to

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Speaker 1: those people together again, whether it's dating or even work,

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Speaker 1: like I think, like we're people who are managers now

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Speaker 1: and who are you know, or even just coworkers. Like

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Speaker 1: it's loaded, like everything is so loaded. So I'm with you,

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Speaker 1: like I want to talk more about mental health and

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about mental hust so much more, but I

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Speaker 1: also I'm like, am I hurting or am I helping?

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Speaker 1: So there's a million things in that one. There is

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Speaker 1: too much content, like I I also feel I also

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Speaker 1: feel bad saying that because, like, one I put some

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Speaker 1: of that content out and exactly, but like I had

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Speaker 1: to unfollow every single person on my instagram and Redo

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Speaker 1: who I follow because I was like, I work with

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Speaker 1: eating disorders and body image. It's like my specialty. Do

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Speaker 1: so well, it's awesome. But I had all these like

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Speaker 1: Dietitians and following these like body positive influencers and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and I work in that field. So you

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Speaker 1: would think that I'd be like yeah, this is awesome,

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Speaker 1: but then I started to see that I was like,

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Speaker 1: my whole life can't be about this. Not all of this.

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Speaker 1: They're not. Everyone's doing it the right way and just

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Speaker 1: because somebody's doing this, doesn't need to follow them. and

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Speaker 1: like everybody's trying to like one up the other person,

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Speaker 1: and I just was like, I can do my own

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Speaker 1: thing and not have to follow content. But then you're

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Speaker 1: also speaking to the part where, like people are making

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Speaker 1: things so black and white, like every jerk, the narcissist,

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Speaker 1: like everybody who lies a gas lighting. That's not true,

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Speaker 1: that's not what that is. And so we've given a

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Speaker 1: lot of people this information, but do they have the

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Speaker 1: ability to really digest that information? Yeah, and and again,

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Speaker 1: it's like priming people to see each other as others

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Speaker 1: and priming people to seek conflict and and that's what

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Speaker 1: we're doing politically right. It's it's interesting because I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's following the same kind of trend, which usually

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Speaker 1: does right, like, Um, it's it's it's, you know, the

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Speaker 1: personalst political, the politicals personal. There's a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: tribalism right happening in in in sort of politics, not

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Speaker 1: just in the US but around the world, and in

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Speaker 1: a way we're becoming more tribalistic, if that's even a

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Speaker 1: word in our in our personal relationships right, like again,

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Speaker 1: by labeling people and being and diagnosing people and diagnosing

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Speaker 1: ourselves right, and people becoming experts. To me, the best experts, like,

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Speaker 1: when I think about, for example, I don't know, esther, parral, esther,

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Speaker 1: like will rarely say yes or no to a question.

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Speaker 1: It's actually annoying to interview her because she will just

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Speaker 1: always be could be this, could be that she doesn't

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Speaker 1: even you know. I remember having this conversation with her

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Speaker 1: where I was like, Um, someone I told me, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you walk into a therapist, or you can answer

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Speaker 1: this maybe, but when you walk into a therapist office,

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Speaker 1: the first thing that they'll do is that they'll try

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Speaker 1: and gauge what your attachment style is, and they will

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Speaker 1: do that like, you know, they will tell you like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're actually anxiously attached or you're avoided, but they will

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Speaker 1: like clock it. And I asked her like do you like,

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Speaker 1: is it true, like the therapist, and then she was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't come in labeling anybody like like, and you

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Speaker 1: can be you know. Again, I think attached and attachment

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Speaker 1: styles is super important and I wish I'd been taught

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Speaker 1: that in the you know, seventh grade instead of like Algebra,

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Speaker 1: that I don't remember. But but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you can be overly attached to that label and you

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Speaker 1: will be different in different relationships. And you know, again,

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Speaker 1: that's what I said, like you're acting that out because

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Speaker 1: you think that I'm anxious, so I'm going to do this,

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Speaker 1: and then I do. It's yes, it's self fulfilling, it's

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Speaker 1: self fulfilling, and and in the same way that I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, we laugh about manifestation. I mean we some

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Speaker 1: people like and I'm part of it, like I I'm

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Speaker 1: skeptical right of like, well, if I say I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make a lot of money, I'm gonna make a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, like I don't. You know, I have

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Speaker 1: like issues with that. But at the same time, I

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Speaker 1: think the reverse is true, like you can manifest your unhappiness,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people, and I myself included, like

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Speaker 1: I'm not. You know, these are things that I'm reflecting

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Speaker 1: on where I'm like, am I resisting my own happiness

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Speaker 1: because I'm so attached to my misery? Like I'm so

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Speaker 1: because I know it, because I know it and I

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Speaker 1: can predict it. I have this attachment been style. I

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Speaker 1: have this mental illness. I have this thing. You're this

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Speaker 1: so I can predict in control when, like, relationships are

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Speaker 1: like about giving up control and like you don't know

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Speaker 1: what the other person is gonna do. You don't know

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Speaker 1: who the other person is gonna you know, and it's

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to again loosen up my own you know,

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Speaker 1: my own guard, I guess, and just be like I

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Speaker 1: don't like, I don't know who this person it really is.

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Speaker 1: And and that's gonna be the exciting thing too, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know who I am. I'm going to change.

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Speaker 1: They're going to change. Everything changes, and so, yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: been just again, I mean, these are just things that

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Speaker 1: I'm reflecting on, these things I'm working on, because I've

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Speaker 1: I've done that, like I've definitely, yeah, just over over

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Speaker 1: corrected in that way. The interesting thing is is therapists

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Speaker 1: aren't supposed to be so yes or no, like we're

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Speaker 1: not right to tell you, because it's not always and never.

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Speaker 1: It's rarely always and never. And that one, Oh one,

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Speaker 1: we learn. But that's something that's become very powerful because, again,

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Speaker 1: the control and it feels safe and all that. Before,

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Speaker 1: like people started reading attached I remember when people started reading.

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Speaker 1: It was like two years ago, wasn't that? And so

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Speaker 1: then everybody's coming in and like what attachment style am I?

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Speaker 1: And I'm I am like, okay, I've known this whole time,

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Speaker 1: but we've never had to talk about it, because that's

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Speaker 1: it's not so important for you to know. Yet maybe

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Speaker 1: I here you get to have that power of like

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Speaker 1: when is a good time to introduce this concept? When

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Speaker 1: is a good chip? And now everybody has this information.

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Speaker 1: Before they get to the office, they want to confirm

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Speaker 1: that the diagnosis that they've already given themselves, and then

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Speaker 1: they want to hold onto it. And then the interesting thing.

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Speaker 1: It's much like the Indiogram, if you ever do take

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Speaker 1: that test. A lot of people hate the instiogram because

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Speaker 1: they feel like if I don't want to be put

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Speaker 1: in a box, I don't want my I don't want

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Speaker 1: something to label me as this and and that's like

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Speaker 1: the opposite of what it really does. It really tells

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Speaker 1: you kind of like what box you're living in, so

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Speaker 1: then you can get out of it. Wow, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is like the attachment styles, like it's really hate to

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Speaker 1: know what your attachment style is, so then you can

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Speaker 1: get out of that way actually, versus. I'm now in

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Speaker 1: this attachment style, and so interesting because if you read

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Speaker 1: anything about attachment styles, that's like really done by people

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Speaker 1: that know what they're talking about. They talk about how

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Speaker 1: these are fluid things. They change and they're going to

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Speaker 1: change throughout your lifespan based on experiences, your relationships, like

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Speaker 1: if you go to therapy, if you don't. Yet we

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Speaker 1: get so hung up on I am this and they

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Speaker 1: are that, especially with dating. Right, he's avoid it, he'll

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00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: never do blah, blah blah. And maybe that's true. Right,

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00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: maybe they won't like. Maybe that person never feel safe

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Speaker 1: enough to connect with you in that way. So and

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Speaker 1: they might, but I don't know that that's the most

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Speaker 1: important thing. The important thing is that right now you're

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Speaker 1: not getting what you need. So what do you need?

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Speaker 1: To Stop acting in your yes, yes, yes, bringing it

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Speaker 1: back to yourself, right, which is the more difficult work,

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Speaker 1: and and focusing on the other persons. So mental issue.

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Speaker 1: Attachment style from my history, like that's a great way

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Speaker 1: to ignore your own and and again something that I'm

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Speaker 1: reflecting on it because it's something I've also I've also done.

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Speaker 1: I've over overly focused and, as soon as you bring

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Speaker 1: the focus back on yourself, you actually can change things.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing, like, that's actually the only thing you

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Speaker 1: have control over. And Yeah, I feel like I, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wasted a lot of time again just overly focusing

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Speaker 1: on figuring out right. It's it's a form of intellectualizing, right,

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Speaker 1: which is a coping mechanism. Again, it's it's a way

427
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: to cope with pain or cope with a situation, with

428
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: with with stress. But doing it is overly right, is

429
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: a way to actually also, it's that is avoidance, right,

430
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: like you can be anxiously attached and be constantly, you know,

431
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: intellectualizing the other person's behavior as a way to avoid

432
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: dealing with their behavior or or avoid, Um, leaving that

433
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: relationship or or stating your needs in that relationship or again,

434
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: thinking about how your behavior is enabling or allowing Um,

435
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: that kind of that kind of behavior. And so, yeah,

436
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: it's it's real nice, you know, to just talk about

437
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: how someone is and then but then like are you yeah,

438
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: like something else that I just again, I do and

439
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: I try, is just like am I spending all this

440
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: time talking about this person, but then is that how

441
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: I am in relationship with them? Right, like am I

442
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: just saying this person is craziest person doing this, but

443
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: then I'm with them and I'm just like smiling and

444
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: like you have to be truthful with yourself, and that's something. Again,

445
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: if your people pleaser, if you're like you know all

446
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: of the things, which we all are, you know, we

447
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: all want people to accept us, is going to be difficult,

448
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: but that is where, like, change will happen and patterns

449
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: will be broken. Right, yeah, all of that. I mean,

450
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: we could talk about this part for four hours because

451
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: you literally said so many things that, like, I feel

452
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: so deeply. But it's interesting because, like I said, before

453
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: we started recording, I was listening to the first episode,

454
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: I want to say, it was the first episode of

455
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: this season of man enough, and we're talking about cancel culture,

456
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: M H. and well, that just relates, realist, to everything

457
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: in my life, because I've become I'm a people pleaser,

458
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 1: and I love that you said everybody is, because when

459
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: people are like I'm not a people pleaser, I'm like, okay,

460
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: let's maybe your behaviors are different than mine, but I

461
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: think want to like you as well. Um, a different

462
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: way to do it, yea. And so with this podcast.

463
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: I've I've realized that I have people that believe all

464
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: different kinds of things that listen to this, some that

465
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: are different religions than I am, some that just like

466
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: are just different in all aspects of the world, and

467
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: so I know, as a human like there's no way

468
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: for me to just like put out content that everybody's

469
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: going to agree with. At the same time, I get

470
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: really anxious about hurting somebody or pissing somebody off or

471
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: or being this understood, and then that directly like fights

472
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: with this part of me that wants to be really

473
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: authentic right show up and like put the content out

474
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: there that feels like it's helpful, like we're talking about

475
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: and and speak the truthful parts in this space from

476
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: a therapist perspective. But I know there's gonna be people

477
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: out there that that will have an opinion that is

478
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: or just get something from what I said. That's not

479
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: what I meant. Yeah, and I get that feeling a

480
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: lot for a lot of things, but more recently about

481
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: this part of like Oh, like mental health is is

482
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: being like screwed with, like misconstrued. People don't understand the

483
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: point anymore. Yet we're trying to like give a better

484
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: description of what it is and make it less stigmatized.

485
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: But then it's actually becoming this thing that like everybody's

486
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: just like sucked up and everybody needs more boundaries and

487
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: everybody needs to cut off relationships and everybody needs and

488
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: everybody's parents suck and like that's the opposite, and so

489
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: I have a hard time, like me saying like maybe

490
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: all these like advocates aren't really advocating for what we

491
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: really should be doing. All of that, however, I want

492
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: to hear from you, especially with what we originally were.

493
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll get to it. Gonna talk about today. I

494
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: want to hear from your perspective, as somebody who does

495
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: put content out into the world, whether it's a real

496
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: or a book or a podcast, how you are coping

497
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: with the ability for anybody to misunderstand you or attack

498
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: you at any minute when you're trying to be helpful.

499
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:41,239
Speaker 1: I would say that, very recently, my coping mechanism was

500
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: to be perfect and, like you know, I'm putting that

501
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: in vague quotation marks because obviously being perfect doesn't exist

502
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: and also being perfect for everybody is just not I

503
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: don't know, unless you're like your pizza like, like I

504
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: don't know what is like. And even pizza there there

505
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: are people who don't like pizza, other people who are

506
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: allergic to gluten, their people who don't like dare like,

507
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: like you just can't please everybody. But that was a

508
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: real struggle for me. Like I again, I think part

509
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: of it is we all want to please other people.

510
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: I was like bullied in high school and I think

511
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: that just like has stuck with me to where as

512
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: soon as I feel like and I was like rejected

513
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: and I had to like change schools, like it was

514
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: a big it was kind of a mob. kind of

515
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: not mob, but like, yeah, it just it wasn't like

516
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: one person going after me. was kind of like okay,

517
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: now you're done. Like we all, you know, don't we

518
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: all are kind of rejecting you, which you know, again,

519
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I was in high school, is very can be very

520
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: cool and and non not nuanced. So yeah, I used

521
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: to be. So, oh my gosh, if like one person,

522
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: one comment, one thing, I would just it would like

523
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: actually set me off. I would delete you to it

524
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: would almost like set me off in like a weird

525
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: episode of of fear and anxiety and and withdraw like

526
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: I've done things that again now I don't think I

527
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: would do, but you know, maybe, like to your point,

528
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: going private or doing things that are just like okay,

529
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm done, and now I think a little bit. I

530
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: have like a different view on it. I think I'm

531
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: more tethered to myself and, like what I believe and

532
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: my thoughts and opinions, and I think that that has

533
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: made me more confident to say things that might not

534
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: be popular or say things that might not like say that,

535
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: like I know the thing to say that will make me,

536
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: that will make people go yeah, and like fig five

537
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: and like. And it's probably going to be mean like like,

538
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: it's going to be nonnuanced and it's probably going to

539
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: involve like belittling someone else or using a villain right,

540
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: like like going after like that's what we see really do. Well, unfortunately,

541
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: I think, particularly on Tiktok right, these like stitches of

542
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: like this person, you know, laughing at other people, putting

543
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: them down, and I and I really don't. First of all,

544
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: I don't enjoy that. UH, like I'm not a confrontational person,

545
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: even though I think some people, I guess, assume I

546
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: am based on the fact that I have strong opinions

547
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: about things. I don't like conflict. I don't like belittling

548
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: other people. It doesn't make me feel good. It's not

549
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: what my inclination to do it all. So now I

550
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: think that I'm, yeah, I'm more connected to what I

551
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: believe to myself. Yeah, exactly, to myself. And and now

552
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: I expect people to disagree with me as opposed to

553
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: fear that people will disagree with me, and that has

554
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: put me in a different you know, so like the

555
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: Yo Yo ma sort of lesson where he says, know,

556
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: I start playing and I and I and I wait

557
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: for my first mistake right, like, because it's gonna Happen.

558
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: And so if you're like, I don't know, make a mistake,

559
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: like it's gonna Happen and then it's gonna throw you off.

560
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: If you're like I'm gonna make a mistake and you're like, Oh,

561
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: here's a mistake, like you know, here's the person it

562
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: doesn't agree with me. Oh, here's the person that misunderstands

563
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: me or is determined to misunderstand me. Right. And Yeah,

564
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: like I've I think, being being more connected to yourself

565
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: and also having like a good group of people that

566
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: you're connected to as well, that you can do a

567
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: gut check with. Has Been Helpful for for for me anyways.

568
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's my long waited answer. Two things

569
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: popped up in my head as you were saying that.

570
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: One this idea that like I'm expecting somebody to not

571
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. It's really free and I actually

572
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: talk with, and this is how I dated to, like

573
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: talk to a lot of clients who struggle with dating,

574
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: whether they want to get back out there or whether

575
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: they want to use dating naps or whatever, because we

576
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: all from to an extent, are struggling with this idea

577
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: of rejection and all of that and acceptance. And I

578
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: often will say like, well, I think that you know

579
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: when it's safe for you to get back on a

580
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: dating nap, when you are comfortable being rejected, because you're

581
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 1: going to get reject more people are going to not

582
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: be interested in you than are going to be interested

583
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: in you, and that's not a you problem. That's how

584
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: all of us are. We Are we're attracted to less

585
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: people than we're not a yeah, that's yeah. So I

586
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: like that idea of like it might not feel comfortable

587
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: but it can be a safe thing of like this

588
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: is actually how the world works and Nice. The other

589
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: thing that popped in my head was when we are

590
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: having conversations, whether they feel like conflict or they feel

591
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: like arguments or disagreements, the most powerful fruit comes from

592
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: conversations and conflict where both people are trying to understand

593
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: the other person versus get you to a point right.

594
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: So I don't have to agree with anything that you

595
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: have to say at all. For us to resolve any

596
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: kind of conflict, I just need to understand you and

597
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: I need you to understand me. We can still, at

598
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: the end of the day, not agree and talk about

599
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: politics like we're just yelling at each other, like that's

600
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: all that I see. And when you were saying like

601
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: I know what to say, I know what to say

602
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: that's going to get the lot the best response. It's

603
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: that thing that gets all the people on my side cheering,

604
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: but all the people who are on my side aren't

605
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: even listening to it. Like somewhere else, and I just

606
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: said like this is so it's like I'm watching this

607
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: like war from afar, being like okay, I guess we're

608
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: gonna stay here forever. Not much power in that. Yet

609
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: when we have conversations, and that's why I want to

610
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: really hear your thoughts on all this stuff. I'm not

611
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: trying to change anybody's mind and I might not even

612
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: share what I even think about this stuff. Honestly, I

613
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: would like people who don't agree with things that you

614
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: have to say to be listening to this more than

615
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: people that are agreeing with you. Yeah, just they they're great.

616
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: I want them to go listen to other podcasts where

617
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: they can get another perspective. Come to a place where

618
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: we can both like, Oh, I hear that, I hear that, oh,

619
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: I learned something new. That might not change my whole opinion,

620
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: but now I have a better idea and way to

621
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: connect with this person. That so I don't have to

622
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: create these boundaries that are ruining relationships. ruinings like ruining.

623
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: There's so much rupture without repair right now, relationships more

624
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: than I've ever seen, and I haven't lived a super

625
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: long life, but like it's now more than ever. It's

626
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: I had this disagreement with my mom. I have to

627
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: cut her off and I'm like, how do we get there?

628
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: How do we get there? I had this disagree with

629
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: my mom. I don't think I heard her. I don't

630
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: think she heard me. I need to learn how to

631
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: have a safe relationships, safe conversation with her. Wow, does

632
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: that make sense? Because I think it really does. And

633
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: how do you know when you should repair and when

634
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: you should rupture, though, right, like, because I feel like

635
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: sometimes when I want, when I'm rupturing, it's not that

636
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't trust the other person, is that I don't

637
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: trust myself. And so, because that's something I've been thinking

638
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: about a lot, because, again, I'm not just observing it

639
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: with the people around me, I'm noticing it in my

640
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: own life. I'm like, I feel like there's a lot

641
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: more not chaos, but you know, it used to just

642
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: be relationships felt more stable in in some you know, sense.

643
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Oh, what's going am I? Yeah, and I,

644
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, am I the drama? That isn't me. And

645
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: and probably, like, I mean, it's two people write like

646
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: every relationship. I think it's very rare that it's just

647
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: one person. And Yeah, I guess I'm curious, like, and

648
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: even maybe for people are listening like I. When is it?

649
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: When should you rupture and when should you prepare? Like, yeah,

650
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: questions that there's not like a black and my answer right,

651
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: because it's different for everybody and and, to be honest,

652
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: certain people can handle a level of chaos that is

653
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: different than other people's relationships. So, yeah, we can die.

654
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: We can like really go deep into that and say,

655
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: where does this ability to handle case come from? Does

656
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: that come from trauma? And like Blah Blah, Blah Blah,

657
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: might come from trauma and it is what it is.

658
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's where like mental health has become

659
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: too simplified, where it's like, if this comes from trauma,

660
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: that means it's bad, when a lot of times, not

661
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: all the time, but a lot of times, the traits

662
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: we get from experiencing trauma their survival and they help

663
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: us continue to survive. And that's okay. Let's not get

664
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: rid of us, let's not get I'm I have a

665
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: really high tolerance for chaos, and maybe that becomes an

666
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: issue in my romantic relationships because I am accepting behavior

667
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: that's actually really harmful and scary and bad. Yeah, and

668
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: maybe it allows me to be able to go into

669
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: safe relationships and sit and have conflict and not feel

670
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: like I'm going to die. Well, that's why I like

671
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to answer that question. Because it's different person

672
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: and I think it's interesting that you said it's not

673
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: that I don't trust them, it said I don't trust myself,

674
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: and so that's a conversation that I think you would

675
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: have to like dive into pretty deep of what don't

676
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: you trust and what other experiences that have led you

677
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: to that. You have to be careful and it's and

678
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: you can trust other people, but you're the problem and

679
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: you're the drama. So I wish there was an easy

680
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: answer for that and there probably is somewhere in somebody's

681
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: book that they wrote. Right. This is these are the

682
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: five ways to know that you never hea and that's

683
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about, though, because then I'm like,

684
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: then people are staying in the relationships they shouldn't and

685
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: then they're leaving relationships that they they might not need to.

686
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: Because of my history and because of what I've been

687
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: through in my life, specifically around like food and exercise

688
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: and all that, I know some limits that I have

689
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: and I know some things that I just like don't

690
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: feel good being around, and I also have some people

691
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: in my life that do those things and talk about

692
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: those things. I can try to set a boundary right

693
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: and hey, it feels icky when you say this stuff

694
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: like you know, do the whole thing. That person might

695
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: not care to change their behavior because it's working right

696
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: and then it becomes okay. Well, I it's it's my

697
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: job to hold the consequence of boundary right. So I

698
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: get to decide what the consequences right. The consequence doesn't

699
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: always have to be. Well, since you can't stop saying X,

700
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: Y Z, that's triggering to me, I'm never coming over again.

701
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: I might do that in early recovery. I can't. I

702
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: can't eat meals with you. Also, the consequence might be

703
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: for me if I want to relate with, let's say

704
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: it's my sister, which it's not. If my sister is

705
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: listening this, this is the thing, and she saying these

706
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: things are triggering and and and so I don't want

707
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: to not be able to be around her and her family.

708
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: I the consequences. I have to do something, maybe before

709
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: after I see her, to make sure that I'm regulated

710
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: and safe right, versus I'm gonna have a blow out

711
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: fight with my sister and then talcketing it does, and

712
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: that is taking responsibility right for your your and your life. Yes,

713
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: because harmful for me might not harm her. Like I

714
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: can't do the same things around food and exercise that

715
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: somebody else might not have a problem with. Yeah, I

716
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 1: mean that's so interesting because, you know, I was thinking

717
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: Monica was telling me about this. I'm sorry, I mentioned

718
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: earlier where we were. You know, we were recording a

719
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: podcast where we're feasing our eggs together. So we spent

720
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: like a lot of time together, and so she, you know,

721
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: taught me something really important where she she was like,

722
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: you know, boundaries is not you can't do that. Boundaries

723
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: is I won't allow like it's like it's I will

724
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: t K T K X Y Z when that happens. Right,

725
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: like a boundary is actually not about the other person.

726
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: It's about you and like your behavior and what you

727
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: will do, and so I think that's such a different

728
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: way of of presenting it. That, then, I think, is healthier,

729
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: because I agree with you like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries like

730
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: to be like boundaries are having like whoever is the

731
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: PR person for a boundaries like having a moment Um.

732
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I don't know if we fully understand

733
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: what that means. It makes me sad because I all

734
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: of this is to help, right, like coming back to

735
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, and and you know, sometimes I've asked

736
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: myself in the last few years again, I've gone much

737
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: deeper on stuff because during the pandemic, I all of

738
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: my stuff was triggered or, you know, small t triggered,

739
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: but also big tea triggered. Like I, you know, I

740
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: have eating issues too. I ended up being becoming really

741
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: sick and like yeah, I had to be like okay,

742
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: this is like much more unmanageable than it would be

743
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: if I, you know, had a normal job and I

744
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: wasn't isolated and uh, you know, it was pretty vaccine

745
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: and like all this stuff. So so I know that,

746
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: like many people, the pandemic really amplified things. But sometimes

747
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: I've looked back and I I don't know if I'm

748
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: if I'm really healing in quotation marks, or or am I, yeah, regressing,

749
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: like I can't tell, you know. And and maybe it's

750
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: part of it. Is like okay, we'll stop thinking about it.

751
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: Like when you're spending so much time thinking about your recovery,

752
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: maybe you're not actually living, you know. Yeah, and I

753
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: want to put the caveat out there that, just like

754
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: I said that gave that example, there is plenty of

755
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: spaces and again kind of back and it's not black

756
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: and white. There are plenty of spaces where it is

757
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: actually really important for you to put that boundary up

758
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: and say the consequence is I won't be doing this

759
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: thing anymore, because some people don't have that ability to

760
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: like hold that and then take care of it after

761
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: it just becomes not that they can't ever get to

762
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: that point, but something that I was taught. It's one

763
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: of my favorite things that my first, well, my second

764
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: boss ever as a therapist. She used the quote and

765
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from, she might have

766
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: made it up, but she said a boundary without a

767
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: consequence is just a suggestion and it's so good. It's

768
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: so good, it's so good, and I remember when she

769
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: told me that, I was like, Oh, I can't just

770
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: like tell somebody to not do something, and she's like

771
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: because there's no motivation for you or them to not

772
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: keep engaging in that, because the reason that behavior is

773
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: because it's working for them in some way. And I always,

774
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: like younger, pre all of this, like I always would

775
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: put that outward, like they get the they need the consequence.

776
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: They need the consequence. But I think now you know

777
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: the way. A good line, this just came to me

778
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: as first speaking, is that maybe it's that all of

779
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: this mental health and this is like a uncathered thought.

780
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: This is just new and I'm working this out as

781
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm saying it. All of this influx of mental health

782
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: information is creating more of a victimy mindset versus survivor,

783
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: where I'm I'm I'm capable and I'm strong and I

784
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: can do these things. So I'm I'm very much a

785
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: victim if every time I set a boundary, the person

786
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: doesn't adhere to that and then I have to then

787
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: not spend time with that person or cut that off,

788
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: or it's never my fault. Well, I can't be their

789
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: friend because they did this. Okay, that's totally fair. You

790
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: can live that way, but everybody in your life's going

791
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: to disappoint you at some point. Right. Yes, literally. So

792
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: that's where its like. We need the Times where we

793
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: do not repair the relationship. We need the time that

794
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: we can say, wait a second, like, I'm in control

795
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: of some of this, I'm in control of me, and

796
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: so how do I show up in a way that

797
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: I can have a relationship with this person? Because there's

798
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: a lot of redeeming qualities about them. We're not going

799
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: to get to it because of timing, and that's okay.

800
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll have another conversation, but my initial desire was

801
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: to talk about all of the abortion in the Rov

802
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: Wade and that all this stuff, and I just think

803
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: that there I have seen so many people just end

804
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: relationships with people that they love because of this, and

805
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that all of them need to be repaired,

806
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: but I think that there's a conversation around how do

807
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: I learn how to set up boundaries that can keep

808
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: me safe and also keep me connected to people that

809
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: I deeply are about? Mm Hmm, I mean, I think

810
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: started we just have echo chambers that we don't of course,

811
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: and and the thing is the person that you're connected to,

812
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: that you care about and that cares about you, you

813
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: disconnecting from that relationship because they disagree with you is

814
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: actually a disservice to the movement, if that's really like

815
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: what you're here for and the reason why you're you know, Um,

816
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: cutting that relationship off. Cutting off that relationship is the

817
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: best thing that you can do too, you know, for

818
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: the opposing side, right, because that person is much more

819
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: likely to listen to you, is much more likely to

820
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: be persuaded by you, is much more likely to value

821
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: the opinion that you think is so, you know, true

822
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: and important and crucial. And I think that this really

823
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: star did. I mean you didn't start, you know, recently.

824
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: I think it's been an ongoing sort of response. But

825
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: you know, obviously twenty sixteen was a very deficive, very

826
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: defisitive election, and there was this kind of underlining shame,

827
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: I guess, for people who remained who didn't like exiled

828
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: or or yell at their family members who voted for for, for,

829
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, trump, like like that. It was almost like, uh, yeah,

830
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: that you were complicit or that you were and and

831
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: and and, if you weren't able to change their minds,

832
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: that somehow that's like your yeah, your racist or your

833
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: sist or your and and it's I think that's a

834
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: that's a dangerous standard. Is that also in the lines

835
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: of like people who like, if you don't post anything,

836
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: being silent is saying something like that whole thing that

837
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: is so frustrating to me for some reasons because, one,

838
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: you don't know why somebody is or isn't posting something, like.

839
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: It's true, it doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean

840
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: they're not and it's not the only way to do something.

841
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: You don't know. If these people aren't posting their instagram

842
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: might be calling their representatives and and leaving the yeah,

843
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: like that. I'd be doing some stuff that you don't

844
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: see because it's not performative. But also, like, I feel

845
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: this as as a mental health person, that I believe

846
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: that just because you're a therapist doesn't mean that you

847
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: are just like an advocate for all things. Right, I

848
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: only have space to advocate for so many things. I

849
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: have work life, I have been like social justice and

850
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: all the things in my personal life that I want

851
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: to work towards and do, and then I also have

852
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: just like a life where I don't I just get

853
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: to be you. Yeah, everybody has that, and so I

854
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: think from a perspective as a therapist, I've seen a

855
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: lot of therapists being shamed, even in like these like

856
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: little facebook groups that I'm a part of, likey of

857
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: like it's assumed that, like every therapist is super girl,

858
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: which like they're not. And sometimes you might know a

859
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: therapist political opinion and a lot of times you don't know,

860
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: and that's for safety reasons, but it just was so

861
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: interesting to me of how these these people were shaming

862
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: therapists for like not doing their due diligence when, like,

863
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: you have no idea what they are doing. And, yeah,

864
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: we want more people to be supporting the movements that

865
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: we're supporting, but we also there's a lot of movements

866
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, what I think it creates overwhelmed. Again,

867
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: that's been one of the things I've given kind of

868
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: my self permission also to do, which is like I'm

869
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: not gonna comment about it. I mean there's so much

870
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: suffering every fucking day in this country and the world

871
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: I can't like actually post Orout an opinion and uh,

872
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: take a stand and raise money and you know about it.

873
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: Everything I just like and and it makes Um, sure,

874
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: you less effective. Um, and if you are spread out

875
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: in that way and against us, the aiming of like, well,

876
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: you're not intersectional or you're not really like it's like, no, no,

877
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: that I'm not good at everything, like, like there are

878
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: other people who will post and create and fundraise in

879
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: a much more effective way and and and again vice versa.

880
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: Like there are things that I'm better at and I'm just,

881
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, have read more about a certain topic or

882
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: have spent you know, my perspective on it is going

883
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: to be different and more, I think, not valuable, but

884
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: like more valuable in terms of effectiveness than a person who,

885
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: you know, hasn't. And so I agree with you. I

886
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: think that, you know, at the same time, at the

887
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: same time, I'm listening to and I'm like, I feel

888
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: like I've done that with abortion and men like I

889
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: have been hurt, like by the men in my life,

890
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: who the vast majority. You know, I have not been

891
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: active about speaking out about row and to me, and

892
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: I understand that that's maybe not everybody like, it is devastating.

893
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Does and even sort of begin to capture what what

894
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: what I again and and there are climate people who

895
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: fight for climate change who believe that, you know, the

896
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: fact that we're not talking about the flood in Pakistan

897
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: or or just climate change in general is like, you know,

898
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: they're in tears and they're, you know, and and I'm

899
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: maybe not understanding the gravity of that. And so I

900
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: think it's it's having grace, you know, for each other

901
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: and and forgiving each other and again understanding that there

902
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: are different ways of sort of supporting each other that

903
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,479
Speaker 1: that look differently. That's a dialectic, though, you're saying right there. Yeah,

904
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: I can be in that space of like, when I

905
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: think about like just like eating disorders and diet culture

906
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: and all the stuff. Like, I get upset when people

907
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 1: don't care about that too, or they just that people

908
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: just say like things, that you're like you are so

909
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: not listening to anything, and and that there's a dialectic

910
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: of I can be hurt by that or sad or angry,

911
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: whatever feeling comes up, and I can offer that person

912
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: grace and I can leave space to like, not know what.

913
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, like there can be two things that

914
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: are happy. It doesn't have to be all. I feel

915
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: this feeling that's Ikey. So I hate this person. Yes,

916
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: none of us are gonna be perfect with that. We're

917
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: gonna have passion inside of us for a reason. And

918
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 1: like that's two things, but I think that's a really

919
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: good point, just to say that, like, I can be

920
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: the perpetrator of the thing that frustrates me as well. Yes, like,

921
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: and own it. Yes, and, and that's a really good point.

922
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: And then when I go to that place, I go,

923
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: like there are plenty of people of color who are

924
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: like frustrated by me the fact that I, like, you know,

925
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: don't do enough and don't take it as personally as

926
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: they would want me to and don't take them the

927
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: amount of responsibility and I'm expecting men to take up

928
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: and I and I use it as a learning. I

929
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: try and as a learning of like yeah, how am

930
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: I showing up for other people in the way that

931
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: I hate that people show up for me right and again,

932
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: it's just like I'm not gonna be perfect. We're all

933
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: gonna mistakes, like one mistake, you know, like there's a saying,

934
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, that I like and that I try and

935
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: say remind myself in the mornings, just like or at night,

936
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: which is like did I reach my quote of mistakes today?

937
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's such a more powerful again, it

938
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: helps me refrain. Instead of focusing on all the mistakes

939
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 1: and all the things that should done differently, it's like, okay,

940
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: how many mistakes I do to take great, let's make

941
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: better mistakes tomorrow. Yeah, I love it and I think that,

942
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: full circle comes to the very beginning of all this

943
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: is like the goals for a lot of these people

944
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: out there that are being, for a lack of another word,

945
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: just canceled or just like judge or whatever. A lot

946
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: of people are out there trying to help, and so

947
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: can we look at that, like we can still have

948
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: our feelings and also like let's look at like the

949
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: purpose of all the work that people are doing, although

950
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: we might not be doing it perfectly, is we're doing

951
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: it to help. So I'm open always to feedback, but

952
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm just like, can you give the feedback in a

953
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: kind way that is able for me to digest it?

954
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: You read it? Yeah, it's send me a nasty email.

955
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to delete it because I don't know your opinion.

956
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: But if you start, so many people do that right.

957
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: So I'm sure you guys get a lot of feedback

958
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: from the podcast, especially like it hurts and it stings

959
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: because I'm like, Oh, I did do that and like

960
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that. But a lot of times

961
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: people say like I hope you take this in a

962
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: kind and loving way and I'm like well, now I will,

963
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: like yeah, write that. Yes, I totally agree. Okay, thank

964
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: you for this conversation. This was so you know, what

965
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm going straight into right now was therapy. So it

966
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: was so I love that. I have a whole list

967
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: of things I've written down that are just super interesting

968
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: for me to think about. So, yeah, thank you for

969
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: this conversation. I like, really, really enjoyed it. Well, and

970
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: if we didn't get to all the points, yeah, this

971
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: is what we needed. Um, we'll have a good their concession.

972
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate it all right. By Youtube like heaven.