1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: At first when people entered the home, it looked like 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: the children were taking a nap. Mommy said that she 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: was convinced they had gotten ill overnight. Had they were 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: they running a fever? But then they were cold to 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: the touch. Did a young mom seeing her children not 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: to sleep but to death. A three year old son, 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: a one year old daughter, and a seven month old 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: baby girl all dead? How did it happen? Crime Stories 9 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Henry admits to police she smothered each child, 10 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: starting with her one year old daughter. The people were 11 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: going on to say that the mom admits her three 12 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: year old son yelled no and try to get his 13 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,279 Speaker 1: mom to stop smothering his sister. But Henry didn't stop 14 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: until the one year old stopped kicking and she knew 15 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: her daughter was dead. She loved him so much, like 16 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: how that loves her kids do that. Documents reveal Henry 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: would then chase after the three year old son, straddling 18 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: him and singing to him as she smothered him. Henry 19 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: would do the same with her seven month old daughter. 20 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: It's most difficult part to see children who are the 21 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: most innocent that have obviously lost their lives. Investigators say, 22 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: Henry put all three children on the couch as if 23 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: they were taking a nap, never telling the rest of 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: the family. Probably one of the most difficult calls that 25 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: are officers and fire personnel respond to. A judge now 26 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: has set the bond at three million dollars one million 27 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: each for each of her three children. You were just 28 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 1: hearing our France at kp XNBC twelve. That was Michael 29 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: dowdna I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: for being with us, with me an all star panel 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: to break it down put it back together again. Wendy Patrick, 32 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: prosecutor out of California, author of Red Flags. You can 33 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Bruce Johnson, 34 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: owner ESP Investigations, Master Sergeant, Region one Crime Scene Commander, Chicago. 35 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgam, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author 36 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, renown forensics psychiatrist 37 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober. You can find him at doctor Daniel 38 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: Bober on Instagram. Deputy medical exam er out of Travis County, Texas. 39 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: That's Austin doctor Kendall Crowns right now, to Katie Wilcox, 40 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: Executive producer, twelve News kpn X I Team, Katie Wilcox, 41 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Let me understand. 42 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. When were the children last 43 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: saying alive? What we understand from the interview that Michael 44 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and down know who just heard from did with their father, 45 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: Two of the children were alive when he got home 46 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: from work that day. He had an opportunity to play 47 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: with them before he fell asleep on the couch when 48 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: the mother then killed her oldest, the son Zane, and 49 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: the baby Catalia. He believes that his one and a 50 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: half year old daughter, Maria was dead when he arrived home, 51 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: but of course she thought she was taking a naut 52 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: with me. Katie Willcox at twelve News kpn X to 53 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, Austin. 54 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Crows, It's hard for me to believe It's not impossible, 55 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: But how could the mom murder two children while the 56 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: dad took a nap right there, I think on the sofa. 57 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: How could he not hear anything going on? The children 58 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: are pretty easy to control them and smother them without 59 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: them making much noise. They don't often put up much 60 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: of a fight because they aren't all that strong, and 61 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: an adult hand can cover their mouth and nose quite easily, 62 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: and it only takes a matter of seconds before they're unconscious. 63 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: So it could be relatively easy to murder a child 64 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: in the next room with another adult and not even 65 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: applies what's going on. M I hear what you're saying. 66 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't doubt you. It's just that you know, Bruce Johnson, 67 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: I think you and I are on the same page 68 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: on this. Everybody's a suspect until I can rule them out, everybody, 69 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: including Jackie Howard right here in the studio. Everybody did 70 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: it in my mind, until I can figure out what 71 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: really happened. So, Bruce Johnson, agree or disagree with doctor 72 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. As a matter of fact, before you answer, 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends. At Arizona ABC fifteen, 74 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: Mike Pelton, the twenty two year old mother is accused 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: of smothering her three children to death with other adults 76 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: inside the home up here unaware of what she'd done. 77 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: Three children smothered to death at the hands of their 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: own mother, Rachel Henry That's what police say in new 79 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: court documents. The children, ages three and younger, took their 80 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: last breaths in signed this home on Monday. Police say 81 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: Henry then placed them quote in a position on the 82 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: living room couch as if they were taking a nap. 83 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: No motive mentioned to Bruce Johnson, Chicago Metro Area Now 84 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: owner ESP investigations. Is it possible? Is it probable? Is 85 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: it likely? Could it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? 86 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: Do we have any reason to believe the dad knew 87 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: what was happening? I mean, what do you think, Bruce Johnson? 88 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: First blush, Okay, Well, first of all, this is a 89 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: terrible scene for law enforcement when they do arrive a 90 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: case like this involving multiple children. And the next real 91 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: odd thing is that you know she she is admitting 92 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: to killing all three of them while he was at home. 93 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: As far as the type in the manner, that's going 94 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: to be easy for pathologists because the upper lip, if 95 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: you pull it away from your teeth, there's um, you know, uh, 96 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: flesh there, and they look to see if that's ripped 97 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: foaming of the mouth on the one child when they 98 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: discovered her. But they're gonna look and see you know 99 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: everybody's story initially, So just because she may be saying this, 100 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: there's of course they're going to look at him as 101 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: a possible suspect right off the bat. They're gonna question him, 102 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: They're gonna, you know, separate both of them, and when 103 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: she gets once she gives the confession as to the 104 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: type and manner of death, then you're gonna go backwards 105 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: and confirm it. So that's where the pathologist comes in. Autopsy. 106 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Look at the upper lip, look at patigi in the eyes, 107 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: the time between the teeth, everything that goes with a 108 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: suffocation type of episode. But her doing this, I'm sure 109 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: you're forensic psychiatrists will will speak on it. I've had 110 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: a case where a twenty four year old wrestler killed 111 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: his grandma and grandpa, washed them, bathe them, and set 112 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: them in their deathbed. And this is a sign that 113 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: she did something similar to that. She didn't wash them 114 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: and reclothe them, but to put them on the couch 115 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: in a display manner that there are a lot of 116 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: issues there going on. Take a listen to our forensic 117 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: kpn X twelve. When he woke up, he said the 118 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: children were on a couch just across the room, a 119 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: walk over to the couch. I pulled the cover back 120 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: for my daughter, and then a couple of seconds later 121 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: I hear Murray and Moray and Thane, and I didn't 122 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: even notice. I just noticed the baby. I didn't even 123 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: notice my other two kids. Police would arrive too late 124 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: for his three children. Been hard on myself, like I 125 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: should have done this. I what if I would have this. 126 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: It's eating me life. I'm not perfect. No climb stories 127 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. He came to Arizona from Frogue, Oklahoma, 128 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: described as a typical small town by friends. We reached 129 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: by phone, like I've been around her a lot. I 130 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: mean I helped her her mom out quite a bit. 131 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: Anthony Rapture and his wife became friends with Henry about 132 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: six years ago. Henry is seen here with Rapture's wife, Tiffany. 133 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: He says he would help out Henry and her mom 134 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: before Henry's mother passed away, and the Rachel and my 135 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: wife actually became very close and they got quite a bit. 136 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: We got to see a lot of drama that went 137 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: on over the house. Rapture says Henry had babysat his 138 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: own kids and both he and his wife. Never knew 139 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: Henry to be capable of anything like the alleged murder 140 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: of her three young children. As a matter of facts, 141 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: even baby fitted my children people, you know. So I've 142 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: never noticed any kind of depression or anger or you know, 143 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: hostility towards children or anyone else. I never would have 144 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: expected that from her. I knew she was unhappy, but 145 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: not to that extent. My stars, everybody on earth is 146 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: a little bit unhappy for Pete's sake. I mean, I 147 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: think that's human nature. Don't you think the Lord gets 148 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: tired of us grumbling and whining and carrying on with 149 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: all the blessings that are reigned down on us every day, 150 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: But yet we do it. So she's unhappy, But even 151 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: neighbors allowed her to baby sit their children. This doesn't 152 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: make sense. Why in the world suddenly three dead children? 153 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: Take a Listen to ABC fifteen. In Claudia Ripping, Phoenix, 154 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: police say twenty two year old Rachel Henry confessed to 155 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: killing her three children. Is anything you want to say 156 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: to the rest of your family. Our crews were there 157 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: as she was booked. Henry's facing three counts of first 158 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: degree murder. Police had happened Monday night at this home 159 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: off Vineyard and twenty fifth. The victims just babies, a 160 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: three year old boy, a two year old girl, and 161 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: a seven month old girl. Horrible. That's why we have kids, 162 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: to love them, to take care of them. Medium Soto 163 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: lives next door. She says she saw the young mother 164 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: outside talking to police Monday night, and she felt that 165 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: something was off. She looked nervous. I looked at her 166 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: as a mom. I would have been devastated. I would 167 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: have been beating myself up seeing the tragedy that had 168 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: just happened. Soto didn't know the family well, but said 169 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: she'd often see the kids outside and the baby loved 170 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: to be on the swing. You could see the children playing, happy, 171 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: running around. And we still have so many questions. We 172 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: don't know exactly how those little kids died. We do 173 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: know from police that there were no obvious signs of trauma, 174 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: but ultimately you'll be up to the medical examiner to 175 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: release the exact cause of death too. Justice got Morgan, 176 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: Forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 177 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Beneath My Fate on Amazon. I heard maybe as dodger 178 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's mentioned earlier, or possibly Bruce Johnson about foam 179 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: on the mouth, What if anything would that signify? And 180 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 1: can you look around the scene itself and determine if 181 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: there was a struggle. Does the forensic evidence bear out 182 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: what we are being told? I don't know, Nancy. There's 183 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: a multiplicity of routes we can go down as far 184 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: as the frothiness that you see what's referred to if 185 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm hearing the description correctly, frothy ademnitis cone and many 186 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: times this will appear when somebody is in a congestive 187 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: event where their lungs are so heavy to take imn 188 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: It stop between you and Crowns and Bober, I'm just 189 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 1: gonna like jump off the roof. What do you mean 190 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: a congestive event? Why do you insist on talking that way? 191 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott morgan to listen. When I was trying cases, 192 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: I couldn't ream out the medical examiner, sorry Crowns at 193 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: his office when I would prepare for trial, because you 194 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: don't want an angry witness up on the stand in 195 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: front of your jury or a no show for Pete's sake. 196 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: But Joe Scott, I mean how many times have I 197 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: asked you, at least for me? Can you dummy down 198 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: just a little bit? This is a lesson. Take Heed 199 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: Bober and doctor Crowns. What do you mean a congestive event? 200 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: Could you just start over and pretend you're talking to 201 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: a first grader me. Maybe the listeners know exactly what 202 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Maybe they're all medical examiners and forensic experts, 203 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: but I'm not so explained to me as if you 204 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: would someone that knows nothing about this field. Hit me. Yeah, Nancy, 205 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: I would never presume to talk to you as a 206 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: first greater foot and and just wipe that stark off 207 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: your face and get lose the attitude aude. Okay, go ahead, Nancy, 208 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: Hey listen. Yeah, what I'm talking about is essentially that 209 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,119 Speaker 1: this depletion of oxygen, that this child is being deprived 210 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: of deprivation of oxygen because the hand allegedly is covering 211 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: the mouth. This is going to cause the child to 212 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: struggle greatly. The lungs will become heavy over the short, 213 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: very short period of time. Actually, and you can have 214 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: this congestive event, this frothy cone. But Nancy, I have 215 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: to tell you two things that really concern me in 216 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: this case. Just beyond that, they this husband that comes 217 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: home and he says that he sees one child reposed. 218 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: He thought the child was asleep. Other two kids are, 219 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: in his estimation, alive. I think he may have interacted 220 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: with him. He goes to bed, and then miraculously the 221 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: kids are deceased when he wakes up. I think the 222 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: big question here for me did the Maricopa County Medical 223 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office actually go out to the scene. Did they 224 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: have personnel there that checked for PMI post mortal interval? 225 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: How long had these children been dead? And this is 226 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: a very specific methodology they have to go through, checking 227 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: for the core body temperature on these children and kind 228 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: of marrying that up with the environmental temperature. That's going 229 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: to be key because you're gonna have a multiplicity of 230 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: stories that are coming down the defense. In this case, 231 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: the mothers may have done it. I'm unclear at this point. 232 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: I want to know the facts, and secondly, I want 233 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: to know what was in the system of these children, 234 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: and that's going to be key. They will have drawn 235 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: blood probably you're in at the scene, and they're going 236 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: to run this for toxicology. I wonder what's going on 237 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: in the lives of these children. Well, you know what, 238 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: I asked for it and I got it. That was 239 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: certainly a mouthful. Doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, 240 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: Austin now in Metro Atlanta, inner City Atlanta. Very often, 241 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: before I could get to the scene, the medical examiners investigators, 242 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: if not the medical examiner assigned to the case their self, 243 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: but their investigators would be there, and I, very often 244 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: at trial would rely on the notes, the measurements, the 245 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: observations of the medical examiner investigators as well as the 246 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: cops or the sheriff's investigators. But explain to me why 247 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: is it important for someone like you, the medical examiner 248 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: to go to the scene. Well, it's important to go 249 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: to a scene, not necessarily for the medical examiner themselves, 250 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: but at least one of the medical investigators have worked 251 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: for the medical Examiner's office, because you need to have 252 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: your individual there to be an unbiased scene documenter, so 253 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: when you go to the court, you don't look like 254 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: you're a tool for the law enforcement of the prosecution. 255 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: It also gives us pictures and documentation that are very 256 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: important to us. When we're doing the autopsy, for knowing 257 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: how the body was positioned, what was around the body, 258 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: things like that. Because we don't autopsy in a vacuum. 259 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: Without a good scene investigation, our findings are a meaningless 260 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: You know, this is reminding me of another case. Listen, 261 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: there's no question she murdered her children one by one, 262 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: drowning them all in the family bathtub, locking the door 263 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: so the five children couldn't get out of the house, 264 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: waiting until her husband left to avoid detection, fighting to 265 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: hold each one of the children under the water, the 266 00:16:52,840 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: children's bodies bruised. Struggling to live crime stories with Nancy Grace, 267 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: There's no question she murdered her children one by one, 268 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: drowning them all in the family bathtub, locking the doors 269 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: so the five children couldn't get out of the house, 270 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: waiting until her husband left to avoid detection, fighting to 271 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: hold each one of the children under the water, the 272 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: children's bodies bruised, Struggling to live That mother Andrea Yates, 273 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: who murdered all of her children as soon as her 274 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: husband Rusty Ates, left home for work, lied them out 275 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: on the bed as if they were sleeping as well. 276 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: That was me talking on HLN Bruised struggling to live? 277 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: Very important? Were these children bruised? Joining me right now, 278 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: Executive producer twelve News KP and x I Team, Katie Wilcox, 279 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the scene? I think 280 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: what's so wild about this scene? And it wasn't just 281 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: mom and dad at home when this all happened. Their 282 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: aunt was there as well, So this whole family was 283 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: living with the Aunt Pearl. And when dad describes waking 284 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: up and kind of finding the kids, he you know, 285 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: he's on the phone with his an older son that 286 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: he's got, and he says that mom and Aunt Pearl 287 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: had gone to get pizza and they come home when 288 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: he finds all the children. So there were you know, 289 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: there was this scene is a mom, a very distraught father, 290 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: and this aunt who is just in shock as well. 291 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: And she basically described to us when we got to 292 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: chance to talk to her that she can't understand how 293 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, they all believed that my mom was playing 294 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: the baby to the babies, all three of them at 295 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: one point down for naps. And that's something you allow 296 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: parents typically to do in an empty, you know bedroom, 297 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: You might let them take a kid in there. She 298 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: can't figure out how she could have been killing these 299 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: kids while she was in the house with them as well, 300 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: And part of the scene for her was just this 301 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: utter shock that when you pull this blanket off of them, 302 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: they're they're gone. And so for what we know about 303 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: this family is that it seems like it could have 304 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: been maybe an almost normal feeling until you realize that 305 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: these children are not breathing, they're not alive, and they're 306 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: laying on this couch. It's it's honestly just one of 307 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: the most horrific stories we've had to cover. There wasn't, 308 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, a big blaring sign though, like there had 309 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: been some fights or some catastrophe that happened there, until 310 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: you realize that these children weren't alive anymore. That's that's 311 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: what we know from the scene. These that children were 312 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: described as, you know, not not having any obvious signs 313 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: of trauma when firefighters got there and when first responders 314 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: were there. But the father, you know, he describes obviously 315 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: very vividly seeing his youngest, the seven month old baby, Catalia, 316 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: with um, you know, fum coming from her mouth as 317 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: we talked about, and and some some blood. So it's 318 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: the kind of still horror. I can't really think of 319 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: it any other way. The only sign that anything was 320 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: wrong is the fact that they were gone. Listen. This morning, 321 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: we have learned that through the investigation, the twenty two 322 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: year old mother has admitted to harming first three children, 323 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: which caused their demise. As you can remember, they were 324 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: pronounced deceased last night. She will be booked on three 325 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: accounts of first degree murder. This investigation is still ongoing. 326 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: There's still a lot of collection and gathering of evidence 327 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: that needs to still be done, and obviously there's going 328 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: to be other interviews with witnesses an additional information. As 329 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: you can imagine, this case is very complex. There's a 330 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: lot of moving parts to it, and so we are 331 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: comfortable in saying now that the mother is responsible for 332 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: the death of the children. Did Rachel Henry, a young 333 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: mom from Phoenix, murder three of her children? This phenomena 334 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: of mothers murdering their children. A three year old, a 335 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: one year old, a seven month old. The children found 336 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: propped up on the sofa quote as if they were sleeping. 337 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: You were just hearing the press conference at the Phoenix 338 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: PD That was Sergeant Mercedes for Tuna. This reminds me 339 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: so much of another mom who murdered her children as 340 00:21:52,440 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: soon as the husband wasn't looking. I had to do 341 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: it because work joining me right now, Doctor Daniel Bober 342 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: Forensic Psychiatrists. You can find him on Instagram, Doctor Daniel Bober. 343 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Bober. It's common knowledge, and I guess I would 344 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: need a stat to back that up, and I bet 345 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick in California has one. But it's common knowledge 346 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: that men kill murder statistically overwhelmingly more than women do. 347 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: And when women do kill, it's their partner or their 348 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: own children. Help me out, doctor Daniel Bober. When when 349 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: the cops got there, According to Katie Wilcox at twelve 350 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: News KPNX, the father and the family were all distraught 351 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: and the mom was not. Yes, that's true, Nancy. And 352 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, this case is eerily similar to 353 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: the Andrea case. And I actually worked with Phil Resnick, 354 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: who was the defense expert on the Andrea Yates case. 355 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: You know, in the Andrea Yates case. Well, now, what 356 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: a second, Biber. Did you just hear Andrea Yates on 357 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: the stand under oath saying she waited until Rusty went 358 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: to work before she murdered the children so he wouldn't 359 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: stop her. She locked all the doors so they couldn't 360 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: get out. She took them one by one in order 361 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: of how much they would fight back to her with her, 362 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: in order to kill them all so she can plan 363 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: a crime not to get caught. That kind of ruins 364 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: the insanity defense. Well, actually, Nancy, it's not that simple. 365 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: Andrea Yates believed that she was killing her children to 366 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: defeat Satan. She was under a paranoid delusion and believed 367 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: that she was actually doing right. And I can tell 368 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: you that Andrea Yates was severely, severely mentally ill. So 369 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: that's the that's the psychiatry, that's the science behind it, 370 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: the law something. Okay, doctor Bob, hold on, hold on. 371 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: When you say mentally ill, would you say she was insane? 372 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: That did she did not know right from wrong at 373 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: the time of the incident. I would say that she 374 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: what she believed that she was doing was she believed 375 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: that she was right for a delusional reason. If that 376 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: makes any sense, Okay, then why did she wait till 377 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: her husband was gone so she quote would not get caught. 378 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: Why did she lock the door so the children could 379 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: not escape. Why does she try to kill them one 380 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: by one methodically so she could affect the martyrs successfully 381 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: without the other children knowing what was happening and running 382 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: out of the house. She planned it, doctor Bobera, because 383 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: in her mind she was covering it up for Satan. 384 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: In her mind, she had a history of postpartum psychosis. 385 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: Her obgyn told her multiple times not to have more children, 386 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: and her husband, Rusty, was putting pressure on her. And 387 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: by the way, Rusty brought a date to the trial, 388 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: the one that was putting pressure on her. You know what, good, Look, 389 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: I'm not on Rusty's side because here he is with 390 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: a great job, I think, as an engineer, and he 391 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: moves his whole family, a wife and five children into 392 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: a school bus. You know, so I'm not down with that. 393 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: He and I have had to have cross swords on 394 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: many times before. But he's not the one that murdered 395 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: the children, Doctor bober And if you know enough to 396 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: cover up your crime, that means you know it's wrong. 397 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: So you can say whatever psycho mumbo jumbo you want. 398 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: She may have had a mental illness, she may have 399 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: had postpartum depression. I get it, But okay, psychoasis, but 400 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: she knew what she You know what, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, 401 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: author of Read Flags Wendy Patrick PhD dot com help 402 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: me out. Yeah, now, see one of the things we 403 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: look for. And you and I both tried not guilty 404 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: by reason of insanity cases where a mom kills her 405 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: kids is or her mother, her own mother, or a 406 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: family member and then says all these things that make 407 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: it seem like she's insane, but legally, Nancy, legally that's 408 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily true. There's a much higher burden. So in 409 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: this case, one of the things they're going to look at, 410 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: first of all the demeanor of this mother, and that 411 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: is very telling in terms of did she know what 412 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: she did was wrong? In addition to the ritualized way 413 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: she lied them out? How long were they did, how 414 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: did she kill them, what happened during the fact that 415 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: there's somebody present in the home. There's a lot of 416 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence to work with that's really going to help 417 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: make jurors understand that as out of context and is 418 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: just heartbreaking as this seems, and as this sounds, that 419 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: this mother knew right from wrong. Okay, I've got doctor 420 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: Daniel bober telling me that Yates, Andrea Yates, Wow, postpartum psychosis. 421 00:26:54,119 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: Now everybody's jumping on the bandwagon that this mom, Rachel Henry, 422 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: had some sort of a depression. But I've got one 423 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: word to say, metha and fetamine. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 424 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody, I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories 425 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: with Me, Katie Wilcox, kp n X I team, doctor 426 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's Doctor, Daniel Boberg, Joseph Scott, Morgan, Bruce Johnson, 427 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: and Wendy Patrick. A few people on our panel are 428 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: tuning up with me right now, and they seem to 429 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: be singing a chorus that this mom that murdered her 430 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: three little children, ages three, one and just seven months, 431 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: had mental illness. She had an illness, all right, take 432 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: a listen to kpn X NBC twelve poison candles lined 433 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: the fins outside the home where three children lost their lives. 434 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: Rachel Henry, the children's mother, now booked with charges of 435 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: their murder. Accused of murder, three counts of murder in 436 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: the first degree. The Saint says Henry had drug problems, 437 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: especially with meth and once had children taken away from 438 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: her before she moved to Arizona last year. But those 439 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: claiming to know Henry say she had her issues but 440 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: loved her children. Okay, Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, Yeah, 441 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: metha amphetamine. Do you still want to tell me this 442 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: was some kind of postpartum psychosis she was using meth 443 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: She had had her children taken away before. He chose 444 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: to use methamphetamine. That was her choice. But meth amphaetamine 445 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: can cause a psychosis which can be characterized by paranoid delusions, 446 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: auditory hallucinations, and she may not have been in touch 447 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: with reality. It is possible, and it may be a 448 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: possible point of defense. Boy, you just you know what, 449 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: You're gonna go down swinging. But you know what, so 450 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: am I Katie Wilcox, Executive producer, twelve neus kpn x 451 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: I Team. Isn't it true that Defects Department Family Children's 452 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: Services had taken the children away before and that mommy 453 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: Rachel Henry was addicted meth i? Ay? Yeah, that's all 454 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: of the information that we know. We were able to 455 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: review the police reports that showed um, Yeah, that the 456 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: Child Protective Services in Oklahoma had removed her children from 457 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: her home there and put them in the custody of 458 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: Pedro's grandmother. They also showed that yes, she had had 459 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: a history of using meth and futamine. Pedro talked about, 460 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, they both had used drugs in the past, 461 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: and it looks like from everything we can tell that 462 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: she somehow was able to get these kids back. So 463 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: the children were placed with their grandmother for at least 464 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: a week, and then DCS or the Child Protective Services 465 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, has refused to turn over any other records 466 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: and says that they're not involved in this death investigation. 467 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: So that has been incredibly difficult for us to answer 468 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: those questions and to really seek justice for these kids. 469 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,719 Speaker 1: The Arizona governor has spoken out and said that he 470 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: hopes something like this might help bring some kind of 471 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: new interstate compact to try to help protect children if 472 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: they're already in DCS case, so that these kinds of 473 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: things don't just end when you cross state lines. Katie Wilcox, 474 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: you know what, they've been singing that same whole song 475 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: for so long, politicians and children just keep dying. They 476 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: will be being observed, supervised by Child Protective services in 477 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: one stay, the parents move, and then they end up 478 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: dead in the next state. I've seen it over and 479 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: over and over. To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of 480 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: Red Flags, it's exhausting, it's defeating when you're trying, trying, 481 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: trying to stop child murders and then they die at 482 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: the hands of the one person that's supposed to love 483 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: them the most. Also, Wendy de facts once again, let's 484 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: children slip through the cracks and now they're all dead. 485 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: Third issue, Wendy, the whole family knew mommy was on math. 486 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: They all knew it, but they let her be alone 487 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: with the children. Wendy. Yeah. The problem, and this is 488 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: one of the reasons we use expert witnesses at trial, 489 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: is you know, many parents don't believe or many family members. 490 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: I should say that meth can cause something like this. 491 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: You talk about psychosis and addiction and health concerns, but 492 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: nobody links I mean we should. The more cases like 493 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: this we get, nobody links these as unintended consequences. So 494 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons it will be highly relevant 495 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: who knew what when in terms of prior drug use, 496 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: prior issues. You know, and who else in the family 497 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: was using and was it an issue of It's obviously 498 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: child endangerment in the word sourced case if you can 499 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: have them at home and have something like this happen. 500 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: But Nancy, it's really an issue of awareness and as 501 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: a society, sadly, through cases like this, we are becoming 502 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: more aware that these may be the unintended consequences. It's tragic. 503 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: Bruce Johnson, owner i SP Investigation, former Master Sergeant Commander 504 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: Chicago Metro Area. Bruce, when they had the bond hearing 505 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: for Mommy, no remorse whatsoever. But she did have a 506 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: little bit to say. She expressed concern about her bond, 507 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: that she was worried she wouldn't be able to scrape 508 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: together the money to get out of jail. You know, Bruce, 509 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: when people talk at their bond hearing and say things 510 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: like that, all she cares about is her getting out 511 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: of jail. M're talking about her mindset. I think later 512 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: when they interview her and find out some things, I 513 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: would be interested. I would be willing to bet that 514 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: he the father of the latest one, the one that 515 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: was there, that he introduced her to the meth or 516 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: possibly introduced her to the meth and that part of 517 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: her demise and her mind and her thinking was that 518 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: you did this to me, and I'm doing this to you. 519 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: And that's where the display might come into play with me. 520 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: Joscott Morgan and doctor Daniel Bober and doctor Kendall Crowns. 521 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: You know, I think one of the things that's really 522 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: concerning to me Nancy is not whether or not she's 523 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: sick in the head, is what were these kids exposed to? Remember, 524 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: there the specific damage in this case, it's their little 525 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: lives that have been snuffed out. I want to know 526 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: what was in their system. And with people that are 527 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: have decided to destroy their lives with myth, there there 528 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: happens to be other damage that occurs. These kids may 529 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: have been exposed to toxic levels of methamphetamine. They're talking 530 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: about this one child that had this demitus cone that 531 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: was coming out of their mouth. Sometimes certain drugs can 532 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: cause can cause this event, this respiratory event like this. 533 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm really wondering maybe that child died as a result 534 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: of exposured myth. I don't know that for a fact, 535 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: but I'd like to know. I want to know what's 536 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: going on in the system and broader in a broader sense, 537 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: the system relative to defacts. How can defacts continue? And 538 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: we see this time and time again of putting children 539 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: back into these same environments over and over and over 540 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: and over again until you wind up with dead kids 541 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: on your hands. To doctor Kendall Crown's, Deputy Medical Examiner, 542 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas, Austin. Doctor Crown's reportedly the one little 543 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: boy the three all fought, scratched, kicked to try to live, 544 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: but mommy continued until he was dead. What are your 545 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: thoughts on the case, doctor Crown? All My thoughts on 546 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: the case are again, adults can easily kill children. Smothering 547 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: is one of the ones that we often won't have 548 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: any findings whatsoever. I've been on child's fidelity review boards 549 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: for almost twenty years, and I've seen time and time 550 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: again where kids are returned to an environment or they 551 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't have been returned to. My problem is, as I've 552 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: had cases of mothers that just didn't want to have 553 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: their kids anymore. You know, they just found them a burden, 554 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: and so they smothered them because they couldn't in a 555 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: quote from one of the cases, couldn't kick it, like 556 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: they used to. So you know, you can say all 557 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: this stuff about psychoses or drunk induced stuff, but you know, 558 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: sometimes they just don't want their kids anymore because they're 559 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: a burden and they want to go have fun and 560 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: party and they just get rid of them. And I 561 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: can't tell you how much it upsets me when I 562 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: agree with the other panel members. The system gets broken down, 563 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,479 Speaker 1: the kids get returned. But again, you know, you can't 564 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: always give these parents the defense of well, they weren't 565 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: in their right mind at the time, because sometimes they 566 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: have those kids, they don't want those kids, and they 567 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: just dispose of them like their trash. Three little children, 568 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: Zane Henry, Mariah Henry, and Kataliyah Rio's Henry all dead. 569 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: Mariah would have turned two next week. To doctor Daniel 570 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: bob Or Physics psychiatris, you well know as I do, 571 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. 572 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: That is true, Nancy. But well, where it gets more 573 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: complicated is if there's a psychotic disorder as a result 574 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: of that substance. And I actually agree with your disgust. 575 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: There are situations where the parents just don't want the kids, 576 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: and it's that simple. So I think every case is unique, 577 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: and I think you have to look at all the possibilities. 578 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: We'll be thinking about those quote possibilities when they lower 579 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,879 Speaker 1: those three little caskets into the ground. We wait as 580 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: just as sudden falls Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off 581 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,