1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: If you've been paying any attention, the shutdown talk seems 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 2: to be getting louder every day, and we don't even 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 2: have all the lawmakers in town yet. The House doesn't 8 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: show up until next week. But that's more than enough 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: for speculation to run wild. And instead of speculating here, 10 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: we're actually going to talk details with Libby Cantrill from 11 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: Pimco about what a shutdown would actually look like. This time. 12 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: She's got a very compelling note out to clients. It's 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: a little bit concerning, actually, warning that the ingredients in 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: place for this shutdown are much more potent than what 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: we have seen in recent memory. You start thinking a 16 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: bad shutdown, that's just a weekend. We'll get back to 17 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: it on Monday, and it could be a little more 18 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: complicated than that. We also expect to hear from President 19 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: Biden this hour. He'll be speaking a bit later about 20 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: a labor deal on the West Coast. Think West Coast 21 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: Ports but of course it's against the backdrop of a 22 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: very difficult conversation about the potential labor strike in Detroit, 23 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 2: the UAW and the Big Three. And that's where we 24 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: start with Gregory Cordy, who's with us table here at Washington. 25 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 2: Great to see Gregory. The President is going to deliver 26 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: what he hopes to be a good message today. But 27 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: it's hard to start taking a victory lap when we 28 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 2: could have a massive auto strike coming within less than 29 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: two weeks, isn't it. 30 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, he really wants to use this event as, as 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 3: you say, a victory lap, a little bit of a 32 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 3: pep rally after this agreement with the West Coast Ports 33 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 3: and the dock workers to get an agreement. And if 34 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 3: you remember just a couple of years ago, over what 35 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 3: we've seen post pandemic, with these huge lines outside of 36 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: ports and the supply chain shortages we had and all 37 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: this this was very important to the Biden administration get done. 38 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 3: A prolonged supply chain shock like a labor strike at 39 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: ports would have exacerbated the inflation we've already seen. But 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 3: now we've got to turn the page to the next thing, 41 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: which is this looming strike deadline by the UAW next week. 42 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 3: That looks like, you know, it's getting a little dicey 43 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 3: that the union's demands are pretty ambitious. At the big 44 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: three auto makers seem to be digging in the heels 45 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 3: and the issues, interestingly, are an interesting cauldron of Bidenomics, 46 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: where President Biden claims to be the most union friendly 47 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: president this nation's ever seen, but it's some of his policies, 48 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: especially around electric vehicles, that are the issues at stake 49 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 3: in these negotiations. 50 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: Really fascinating to think of the scenario that we're in here. 51 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: If it were not for the ev incentives and some 52 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: of the stuff that you're referring to in the Inflation 53 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: Reduction Act, for instance, would. 54 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 4: We be having the same conversation. I think we would 55 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: be having some kind of conversation. Well, there's still a 56 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 4: lot of resentments that have been bubbling over since for 57 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 4: more than a decade because the unions took a bath 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 4: during the Great Recession. Remember all these automaker bailouts that 59 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 4: we had, and their contracts worker tailed. They had to 60 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 4: take get rid of their traditional defined benefit pensions in 61 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 4: favor of something along the lines of a defined contribution plan, 62 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 4: and punted a lot of these bigger issues down the road, 63 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 4: and now they're back at the table and saying, this 64 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 4: is our chance. We've seen record automaker profits, but we 65 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 4: also see these threats from electric vehicles and new technologies 66 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: similar to the writer's strike and the actors strike that 67 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 4: we're seeing in this summer of strikes where they're worried 68 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 4: about AI similar kinds of issues at play, where all 69 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 4: these workers are looking to the future and worried about 70 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 4: their job security as their potential of their jobs being 71 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 4: replaced by less labor and cheaper labor. 72 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that goes for all of us at some 73 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: point here, Gregy, Does this hot labor summer have any 74 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: impact on the budget negotiations about to I guess restart 75 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: is the best way to put it here in Washington. 76 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: Good question, and I'm not sure exactly what that connection is, 77 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: but it's it's all sort of in the mix. Certainly 78 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: with the budget negotiations. You have a little bit of 79 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: a hangover from that debt deal that we talked so 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: much about a few months ago, where. 81 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like such a deal at this point. 82 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 3: Well, there's a little bit of buyer's remorse, especially on 83 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: the part of Republicans who feel like maybe you know, 84 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: they got taken for a ride on this and now 85 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: want to see some some more austerity, and and now's 86 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: the time to do it. That the the deadlines are 87 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: I think to the extent that this kind of goes 88 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: with the labor deals they're looking at, not wanting to 89 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 3: punt this down the road any further, not put it 90 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: into Christmas. That's that's usually what happens where there's a 91 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 3: short term continuing resolution, right, they buy a few months, 92 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: but then after that we get into an election year 93 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: and nobody wants to be nobody wins in a shutdown 94 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: an election year. And so I think, yeah, that all 95 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 3: the ingredients are there for some real serious deal making 96 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 3: that has to get done by the end of this 97 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 3: month to save the government shutdowns. 98 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: Right, we're going to talk about those ingredients now with 99 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: Libby Cantrell. Gregory Thank you as always, great to see you, 100 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporter Gregorycording with us since studio here, and you 101 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: know Libby Cantrell, the managing director head of Public Policy 102 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 2: at PIMCO, who has been watching this and Libby, you're 103 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: out with a client note here that's specific to these ingredients, 104 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: writing that they are more potent than what we have 105 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: seen in recent memory. What is it that makes this 106 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: shut down a little bit scarier than usual? 107 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, good, good afternoon. Well, so I think there 108 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 5: are a few things. One is just the fact that 109 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 5: there's a very skinny House majority. Republicans only have a 110 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 5: five seat majority. That means that they practically really can't 111 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 5: lose many votes in order to get that two eighteen 112 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 5: member that they need in order to pass a bill. 113 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 5: And then I think it, just as Gregory just mentioned, 114 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 5: there is buyer's remorse for this debt deal that you know, 115 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 5: we should note that about two thirds of the Republican 116 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 5: conference and the House actually voted for so they did support, 117 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 5: you know, raising the debt ceiling. And of course in 118 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 5: that deal there were sort of top line spending limits 119 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 5: for next year, for the next fiscal year, and for 120 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 5: a fiscal year twenty twenty five. But this is the 121 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 5: important butt. Some of those folks do have buyers remorse. 122 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 5: They feel like, especially with the Fitch downgrade of the 123 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 5: US debt credit quality, that this is the time is 124 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 5: now in order to sort of push for these austerity measures. 125 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 5: Folks don't want to have this cr this short term 126 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 5: kind of stopgap that we've seen before. And as a result, again, 127 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 5: even though these spending levels were sort of already agreed 128 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 5: to in the June debt ceialing deal, a lot of 129 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 5: folks are walking back and sort of threatening a shutdown. 130 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 5: And again, I think what you know we're telling clients 131 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 5: is this is more than just an empty threat. We 132 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 5: do think there is a faction of folks in their 133 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 5: House Republican Caucus, who are you ready and willing to 134 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 5: shut down the government at least for a period of time. 135 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: That means something. When Libby Cantrell says it, you go 136 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: further though, and throwing a little history at us here, Libby. 137 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: Since nineteen seventy six, there have been twenty funding gaps, 138 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: as we call them, but there have been only four 139 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: times in which the government has formally shut down in 140 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: recent memory as well, twenty thirteen, we remember eighteen nineteen. 141 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: This time around, you see a full shutdown being more likely? 142 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: How common? And can you describe to our viewers and 143 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: listeners the difference? 144 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think this is a distinction with the 145 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 5: difference and an important one. And when I don't think 146 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 5: actually the markets are really paying attention to you. Previously 147 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 5: in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, we saw a thirty five 148 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 5: day shutdown of the government, but Joe, importantly, that was 149 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 5: only a partial shutdown. It was only part of the government, 150 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 5: and that has implications both for economic growth, meaning that 151 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 5: the economic impact of a partial shutdown is really less 152 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 5: significant than a full shot down, but then also for 153 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 5: economic data, and this is really important, especially when you're 154 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 5: thinking about the will they or won't they in terms 155 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 5: of the FED moving particularly in November. 156 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 6: If the full. 157 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 5: Government shuts down, that means practically that we do not 158 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 5: have economic data. We don't have sorry unemployment data, we 159 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 5: don't have CPI data, we don't have GDP data, and 160 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 5: very hard to imagine a FED raising rates in that environment. 161 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 5: So that is sort of the implication of a full 162 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 5: government shutdown versus a partial one, which we saw again 163 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 5: most recently in the twenty eighteen twenty nineteen timeframe. This 164 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 5: one looks like if the government were to shut down, 165 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 5: it would be the full enchilada, so to speak, it 166 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 5: would be the entire government and as a result, again 167 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 5: would have reverberations for economic growth in the short term. 168 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 5: But then also importantly in terms of access for that 169 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 5: economic data. And I think that's actually quite crucial from 170 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 5: a market's perspective. 171 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: You write that Social Security and Medicare would not be 172 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: disrupted at least checks to recipients would not be disrupted, 173 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: but the SNAP program for instance, food stamps Libby would be. 174 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: This is important to talk about because we do hear 175 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: some members in Congress say, hey, go ahead, shut it 176 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: down and make a difference anyway, but it would for 177 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 2: millions of. 178 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 6: People, it would. 179 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 5: And you know, again, so practically for folks who are 180 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 5: on those food security programs, for people who are going 181 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 5: through the airports TSA, most of those employees will be 182 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 5: deemed as potential employees, meaning that they will still work, 183 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 5: but they won't receive a paycheck. And we all know 184 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 5: how cheerful people are. They're not They're having to go 185 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 5: to work and not receiving a paycheck. And so we 186 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 5: could actually see there are disruptions and that national parks 187 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 5: will be shut down. So again, and this is not 188 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 5: not to be hyperbolic here, but I do we do 189 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 5: think that the chances of a broader full government shutdown 190 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 5: are really much higher than they have been in recent memory. 191 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 5: And again this has sort of coming and coinciding with 192 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 5: a period of time from an economic perspective, where there 193 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 5: are there are already a lot of physical headwinds that 194 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 5: are likely going to take hold, whether it's the student 195 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 5: loan repayments, whether it's tax collection for those California taxpayers 196 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 5: who haven't had to pay because of the national disaster 197 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 5: zones or what have you, that their tax bill comes 198 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 5: due in October. There's some childcare benefits that are rolling 199 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 5: off at the end of September. So we see this 200 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 5: as sort of a we're calling it a window of 201 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 5: weakness from a physical perspective this fall, and that again 202 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 5: could just be exacerbated should we see fitful government shutdown. 203 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 5: So we don't want to talk about you know, we 204 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 5: don't want again hyperbolic, but we do think this is 205 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 5: sort of important. It could be an important kind of 206 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 5: macro factor going into the fall. 207 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: This strikes me as far from hyperbolic. We've got to 208 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: talk about reality here if this happens, especially if everybody 209 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: in Washington thinks it's going to happen. This is the 210 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: first real conversation that I've heard that details actually what 211 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: the impact would be and when we consider the impact 212 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: potentially on the financial market. Here what Wall Street might 213 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: think about it. Libby, you just pointed out something really 214 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: interesting here that some folks might not consider. No economic 215 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: data released, How does the market live in that world? 216 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: If this did become a prolonged shutdown, what's the impact there? 217 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so I think that that is that again, 218 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 5: I think we would say outside of kind of the 219 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 5: growth impact, And you know, some of these estimates are 220 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 5: you know, twenty basic points of shaving off growth a week. Now, 221 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 5: a lot of the the employees who would not be 222 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 5: paid during a shutdown do get back pay. But Joe, 223 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 5: this is also an important nuance that we're talking about 224 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 5: with our clients is that federal contractors don't necessarily receive 225 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 5: that back pay. And they're about a four million federal contractors. 226 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 5: So again, if this goes on for a prolonged period 227 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 5: of time, from a growth perspective, the you know, the 228 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 5: growth in pack could be a little bit more severe 229 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 5: than I think a lot of economists sort of have said. 230 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 5: And then again just the fact that there won't be 231 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 5: access to you know, payrolls, to jolts, to CPI to 232 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 5: GDP growth, now that all that stuff will come out eventually, 233 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 5: but the folks who are actually doing that data collection, 234 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 5: who are calculating those figures, oftentimes are not deemed as 235 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 5: essential workers, and so they are not doing that in 236 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 5: real time, and as a result, there'll be a delay there. 237 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 5: So again, I think from a market's perspective, the fault 238 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 5: already looks like it could potentially be more uncertain because 239 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 5: of some of these headwinds that are going to be 240 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 5: facing consumers. And again we just say that that's the 241 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 5: sort of government shutdown, especially if it's a prolonged government shutdown. 242 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 5: The last thing I'll say on that is that there 243 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 5: is if the government does shut down in October, so 244 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 5: September thirtieth, it's a deadline. If Congress doesn't come to 245 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 5: a resolution before then, you know, I guess my worry is, 246 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 5: what is the catalyst for there to actually, you know, 247 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 5: be a bargain. I'm not sure politically if there is 248 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: one that's really short term or really in the immediate future, 249 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 5: And as a result, you could be looking at a 250 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 5: bit more of an extended government shutdown. And we haven't 251 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 5: had that full government shutdown longer than sixteen days is ever, 252 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 5: so we actually don't really know what the economic impact 253 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 5: of that would of that would be. 254 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: God, we're not looking to make history. 255 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 5: We're always fearful. 256 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: Well, but so what are you hearing though from investors? 257 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: Does does the investment community expect to shut down? Or 258 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: is Wall Street given this a whole hum right now 259 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: and there's going to be a big freak out when 260 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: it happens. 261 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 5: I think this is honestly more of a whe hum. 262 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 5: I've we've been sort of surprised a talking to some folks, 263 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 5: peopleth at our clients, but even you know, other market participants, 264 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 5: and this is really whether you know, sometimes for some 265 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 5: folks is on their radar screen, but they just really 266 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: don't think it's a big issue. And for others they 267 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 5: don't even they're not even paying attention because I do 268 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 5: think there's been so much noise out of Washington and 269 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 5: there you know, I wrote this in the note that 270 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 5: there answered this expectation that even though Congress often doesn't 271 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 5: turn their homework in until the last possible moment, they 272 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 5: usually do get their homework done. I guess you know, again, 273 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 5: our concern is is politically right now, the stars really 274 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 5: don't seem to be aligned in order for there to 275 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 5: be you know, a recond you know, compromise before the 276 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 5: September thirty day. 277 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 2: Boy, some real talk, straight talk with Libby Kantri. Libby, 278 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: thank you for your take. This is important. If this happens, 279 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: people need to know what's coming, and it's great, as 280 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: always to share your expertise. 281 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 282 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 283 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 284 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 285 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 286 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: It's a tough headline anyway you cut it. US deficit 287 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: explodes even as economy grows. That's what Washington woke up 288 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: to on Sunday morning. It's pretty hard to refute what 289 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 2: we're looking at here, a deficit that balloons to two 290 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: trillion dollars by the end of this fiscal year, right 291 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: around the time the government might shut down. That would 292 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: be the end of this month. Let's reassemble our panel now. 293 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano joins, Democratic Analyst and of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor, 294 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: joined today by Chape and Fay, Republican strategist Actum. It's 295 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: great to have you both here. Chapin, Look, this isn't new. 296 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: It's the worst kept secret in Washington that this is 297 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: likely going to happen. It's just really a question of when, 298 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: and a question of Speaker Kevin McCarthy's authority, credibility, and 299 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: control over his very thin Republican majority in the House. 300 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: Matt Gates is speaking up now. I gave you a 301 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 2: taste of that a little bit earlier this hour in 302 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: an interview talking about the potential of firing Kevin McCarthy 303 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: if he doesn't like the way this goes when the 304 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: House returns next week. Here he is. 305 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 7: When we get back to Washington in the coming weeks, 306 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 7: we have got to seize the initiative. That means forcing 307 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 7: bots on impeachment. And if Kevin McCarthy stands in our way, 308 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 7: he may not have the job long. So let's hope 309 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 7: that he works with us, not against us. 310 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: What do you think, Chapin, Will he have the job 311 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: for long? 312 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 8: Well, listen, he's speaking. McCarthy's got one of the hardest 313 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 8: jobs a pop. He's right wrangling a very unruly, uh 314 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 8: caucus of Republicans. But but but Republicans like me Gates 315 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 8: and a lot of the Conservatives felt that they were 316 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 8: elected and sent to Washington advocate for some of these issues. 317 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 8: So I do think the Speaker is going to have 318 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 8: to capitulate to some, uh to some of these ideas. 319 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 8: And you know, the government shut down is going to 320 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 8: be a blame game, and Republicans have to be clear 321 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 8: and concise and break down exactly how their agenda affects uh, 322 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 8: everyday Americans, because that's that's what's important. Right If you 323 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 8: just talk about a ballooning deficit, hard to hard to 324 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 8: tire THATU how that affects positive or negative? And an 325 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 8: average Americans like but as they see billions of dollars 326 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 8: going to Ukraine, as they see how much money how 327 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,239 Speaker 8: much you know, local municipalities are understrained because. 328 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 2: Of the migrant situation. 329 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 8: Uh, you know, it's going to be a very difficult 330 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 8: case to make against a Republican caucus who may shut 331 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 8: down the government for tax breaks trying to put money 332 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 8: back into people's pockets. So on the message front, I 333 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 8: think Republicans have the better message and the better policy. 334 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 8: You know proposal, some of them like tax breaks. I'm 335 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 8: putting more money into americans pockets. But it's you know, 336 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 8: a little early to tell. Speaker McCarthy has a very 337 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 8: unruly caucus that he's going to have to not necessarily 338 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 8: keep in line, but try and act as a unified force. 339 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: It would be very difficult. 340 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 8: But as of right now, I think, you know, I 341 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 8: think they will have an edge in this, in this 342 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 8: upcoming battle. 343 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: We do have to be specific about Republicans, right, Genie, 344 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: because it sure sounds like Mitch McConnell and Senate Republicans 345 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 2: are on a very different island from those in the House. 346 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: The White House and the Senate appear to be in 347 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: step here. Kevin McCarthy might be the one out of step. 348 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: Is that the case? 349 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 6: It is the case. 350 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 9: I mean, this is a Republican versus Republican battle, and 351 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 9: specifically Republicans in the House versus Republicans in the Senate. 352 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 9: In fact, on that press conference the other day, when 353 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 9: Mitch McConnell came out and we talk so much about 354 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 9: him freezing that press conference, he intended to come out 355 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 9: and send a clear message to Kevin McCarthy, and that 356 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 9: message has been very clear throughout. He said it in 357 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 9: the speech before. They need a short term bill to 358 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 9: get them into the holidays, and of course Kevin McCarthy 359 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 9: has been very clear he's not going to do that. 360 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 9: But when you look and you listen to what people 361 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 9: are Wi Matt Gates are saying, they are just not 362 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 9: dealing in reality. House Republicans control one sixth of the 363 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 9: government and they are trying to push through policies, push 364 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 9: through ideas that they simply don't have the support for. 365 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 9: And so that is what Kevin McCarthy has been contending with. 366 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 9: He was able to heard those cats earlier, but very 367 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 9: much like Paul Ryan and John Bayner before him, he 368 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 9: over promised to this very small group of people on 369 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 9: the far right of his own caucus about spending and 370 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 9: other things, and they are going to hold him to 371 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 9: delivering on that, and that is going to put him 372 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 9: in a very difficult position because he will need Democrats 373 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 9: and have to concede to Democrats to get a short 374 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 9: term spending bill or there's a shutdown, and that hurts 375 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 9: Republicans at a very bad time. So, you know, I 376 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 9: agree with Chapin, he has the hardest job in DC 377 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 9: right now, and it's going to be, you know, fascinating 378 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 9: to see if he can maneuver it. His predecessors were 379 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 9: unable to and both ultimately left, and I would not 380 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 9: be surprised if that is Kevin McCarthy's fate at some 381 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 9: point in this process down the road. 382 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: Illustrating the contrast here, Mitch McConnell, of course, the Republican 383 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: leader in the Senate earlier today on the floor talking 384 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 2: about this supplemental request to fund the war effort in Ukraine, 385 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: not to mention the debate over Pentagon spending in the 386 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: broader budget. 387 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 10: Since put in t escalation in Ukraine, President Biden has 388 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 10: not been as decisive as many of us would have preferred. 389 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 10: But this is both excuse or Congress to compound his 390 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 10: administration failures with figures of our own, with. 391 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: A jab at Joe Biden while he was at it, 392 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: Chape and Fay, Mitch McConnell and the Republican establishment, kind 393 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 2: of the old school Republicans seem to be very much 394 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: on the same page as Joe Biden when it comes 395 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: to Ukraine spending. Is this where the fallout will happen 396 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: in the House. 397 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 8: I think it's one area where fall it will happen. 398 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 8: I think we are you know, you know, And and 399 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 8: the rise of populism is an issue in the Conservative 400 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 8: Party because I. 401 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 6: Think we're living in an era where. 402 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 8: Our elected officials, the gap between our electives, what our 403 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 8: elected officials are doing, and what the voters want has 404 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 8: never been wider. Which is what is driving these Republican 405 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 8: members of the caucust because they again I feel they 406 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 8: have been sent there to achieve some of these conservative ideas. Again, 407 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 8: some of them are like Jeanie said, not living, not 408 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 8: in reality, but some of them, you know, tax cut, 409 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 8: some of these fiscal policies. This is what the Republican 410 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 8: hawkas was elected. 411 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: To get done. 412 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 8: And I think it's a problem for established Republicans like 413 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 8: Senator McConnell, like you know, Leader mcconough, like, you know, 414 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 8: I have utmost respect for him. You know, the Supreme 415 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 8: Court wouldn't be as conservative as it is without you know, 416 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 8: Leader McConnell's backbone over the past several years. But I 417 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 8: do think he is out of. 418 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 7: Touch with what the republic, what Republican. 419 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 8: Voters currently want. I think he is out of touch. 420 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 8: And of course there's going to be that inter Republican 421 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 8: battle between the House and the Senate. And as a 422 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 8: quick aside, I once saw this might be a little 423 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 8: morbid these days in context, but I once saw a 424 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 8: speech by Leader McConnell where he said the Senate is 425 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 8: where things go to die, meaning you know, that's the 426 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 8: point of the Senate to cool things off from bills 427 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 8: that come to the House. 428 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: A little bit morbid in today's condex with some of. 429 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 8: Our aging leaders. So there's always going to be that 430 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 8: tension with Senate Republicans and House Republicans, but they're just 431 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 8: going to have to come to some agreements. And you know, 432 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 8: this is a multi level negotiation, and we're in the 433 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 8: first phase right where people like Congressan Gates are trying 434 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 8: to get his points out in the media. 435 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 5: Right. 436 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 8: That's a negotiating this position and tactic, and these are 437 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 8: the things that he is asking for. Is he going to, 438 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 8: you know, with this colleague, shut down the government if 439 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 8: he doesn't get one hundred percent of what he's asking for. 440 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 8: I'm not so sure. But they're going to have to 441 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 8: get something big in order to go along with Speaker McCarthy, 442 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 8: which again is his bigger problem over the next couple 443 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 8: of weeks. 444 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you wonder what there is to negotiate at 445 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 2: this point, Genie, I still go back a couple of months. 446 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: We thought we had a deal, this debt ceiling deal 447 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: that brought us to the verge of default. It was 448 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 2: going to be the end of the world, the fiscal cliff. 449 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: They actually averted that, and yet we're still going to 450 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: go through the motions here as if it never happened. 451 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 9: That's right, deal, shmil Joe Matthew, what do we know 452 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 9: about that? 453 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: You know, it's. 454 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 9: That's basically you know, I was just I'm just thinking 455 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 9: the same thing. 456 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 7: You know. 457 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 9: It's there was a deal, we all celebrated it, we 458 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 9: averted the fiscal cliff, and it was as if it 459 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 9: never happened, and they're renegotiated that. And you know, Marca 460 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 9: just said this earlier to you, you know, untelling Unless 461 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 9: that deal will hold, we are going to be in an. 462 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 6: Awfully chaotic system. 463 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 9: And the reality is is that if this is how 464 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 9: Republican voters feel, then they need to elect more legislators 465 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 9: to get the majority they need to push through these policies, 466 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 9: you know, to suggest that they can push through these 467 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 9: policies without having those people in place. By just threatening 468 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 9: to shut down the government, well, that is something that 469 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 9: hurts all of us. And you know one thing we 470 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 9: keep hearing is shutdowns don't matter. They don't hurt anybody. 471 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 6: But they do. 472 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 9: Let's remember why Fitch downgraded us, because we are in 473 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 9: a politically chaotic system that cannot work in the most 474 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 9: basic way to keep our government running. 475 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 6: That's a problem for all of us. 476 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 9: So shutting down is not an option and should not 477 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 9: be an option to get your policy perc descriptions passed a. 478 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: Lot of things to remind ourselves of there was a deal. 479 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: I just know it. I was there, I saw it. 480 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 2: Oh in that downgrade, both of those did happen. That's 481 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: the backdrop for this debate that we continue to hash 482 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: out here on Bloomberg Radio. Genie and shape and stay 483 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 2: with us as Mike Pence delivers what's being built as 484 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 2: a major speech today in New Hampshire to draw the 485 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: line between himself and his former boss. 486 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 487 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 488 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. Or listen on 489 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 490 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: So did you hear it? Not the new Rolling Stones 491 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: record The Sirens Song of Populism, as noted by the 492 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: former Vice President Mike Pence delivering what his campaign is 493 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: billing as a major speech today in New Hampshire Politics 494 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 2: and Eggs Saint Anselm, this is when it happens, a 495 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: major speech about conservatism versus populism. A reference, of course, 496 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: to his former boss, Donald Trump. We don't even expect 497 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: to hear his name, but everyone knows who the Vice 498 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 2: President will be talking about. 499 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 11: In his request that I reject or return votes unilaterally, 500 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 11: power that no vice president American history had ever exercised 501 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 11: or taken. He asked me to put him over the Constitution, 502 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 11: and I chose the Constitution and I always will. 503 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: Mike Pence from the Republican Debate, you might hear a 504 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: line like that today is actually going to equate what 505 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: he sees as the fringe left in the populous right 506 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: together driving the country down the road to ruin. Let's 507 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 2: reassemble our panel and get their take on it. Geenie 508 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 2: Shanzano is with us, along with Chape and Fay. It's 509 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: great to have you both here to weigh in on this, genie. 510 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: I wonder where we should start here if you're not 511 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 2: going to name Donald Trump, because it did look like 512 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: Mike Pence was going to go there. But based on 513 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: excerpts that we've seen, is a quote unquote major address 514 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 2: like this going to make a vent at his campaign? 515 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 9: You know, I am so glad you started there, Joe, 516 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 9: because this is exactly what I was thinking. Apparently, his 517 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 9: advisors told reporters on a call that the speech is 518 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 9: directed not at one candidate in particular, and to your point, 519 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 9: hence will not name Trump. Well, so what is he doing. 520 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 9: Is he making a speech for posterity's sake? Is he 521 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 9: some kind of political commentator or scholar that he is 522 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 9: talking about the future of the GOP? 523 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 6: Because if you're not going. 524 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 9: To name Trump and you are forty to fifty points 525 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 9: behind him right now, why are you running? You know, 526 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 9: all of these people that are opposing Trump have the 527 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 9: same problem. They look at the polls and I guess 528 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 9: they listen to their advisors who say, don't take him on. Well, 529 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 9: then this race is over unless Trump's self implodes because 530 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 9: of legal or health reasons. 531 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 6: So to me, this is going to be, you. 532 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 9: Know, a nothing burger from the perspective of does Pence 533 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 9: really want to beat Trump? Because to beat the guy, 534 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 9: you have to run the race, which means you have 535 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 9: to say you're taking him on. And this is why 536 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,719 Speaker 9: otherwise step back, do your commentary, But you're not going 537 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 9: to make any headway when the Wall Street Journal and 538 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 9: the CNN and the NRC say you're forty to fifty 539 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 9: points behind, and we are looking at a couple months 540 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 9: until the caucus, and we are in September after Labor Day. 541 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: What would you tell him to do here, Chapin, Because 542 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: Genie's right, You've got Donald Trump and aggregate of fifty percent, 543 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: Mike Pence at five on a pretty good day. I 544 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 2: know that he's going to be on the stage, likely 545 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: for the second debate. I guess maybe I shouldn't assume that, 546 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 2: but it looks like he will. But how do you 547 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: make a dent in a forty five point spread like 548 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: this if you're not going to name the front runner? 549 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 8: Well, look, campaigns are math problems, right, and the former 550 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 8: vice president has a very hard math problem to solve 551 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 8: at five percent. The other problem is the Republican The 552 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 8: numbers clearly show that the Republican Party in twenty twenty 553 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 8: three and moving into twenty twenty four is solidly behind 554 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 8: the foreign president Donald Trump. So the other candidates have 555 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 8: this bind. 556 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 3: Where do you attack the president? 557 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 8: Does that hurt your numbers? How do you differentiate yourself 558 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 8: from someone who is so far ahead and has such 559 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 8: a strong level of support within the base of the 560 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 8: Republican Party for a vice president, And each candidate has 561 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 8: a different matrix that they have a different problem that 562 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 8: they have to solve. For the vice president, he's already 563 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 8: sort of in the on the never Trump side, so 564 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 8: he's got to lean into this. The problem for him 565 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 8: is that this is just not where the Republican primary 566 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 8: voters are. Whether you like it or you don't, that's 567 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 8: just not where the Republican voters are. And again he's 568 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 8: trying to thread that needle by not naming the name. 569 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 8: But we all know Republican voters are not stupid, you know, 570 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 8: we all know what he's talking about and who he's 571 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 8: talking about. So I think he's taking a little bit 572 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 8: of a chance. But this is really the only path 573 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 8: for certain candidates, the santas Uh and Pence in particular. 574 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 8: The other ones you know, can can say nice things, 575 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 8: are not engaging directly and try and and and and 576 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 8: get those uh you know, get voters that way. But 577 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 8: they're all they're all after the same votes. They're all 578 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 8: after the Republican voters who refuse to vote for Trump, 579 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 8: which is just not as many as the He's got 580 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 8: more than fifty percent. So even it was one on one, 581 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 8: Trump would still be leading. 582 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: I want to ask Eugenie about Joe Biden and this 583 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: same issue. He's not afraid to mention Donald Trump. But 584 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 2: listen to the way he got to this in his 585 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: Labor Day speech. I mean, typically we hear him refer 586 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: to Donald Trump, not that often, but now we keep 587 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: hearing about the former guy, the last guy. 588 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 12: When the last guy was here, you were shipping jobs 589 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 12: at China. Now we're bringing jobs home from China. When 590 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 12: the last guy was here. From the last guy was there, 591 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 12: your pensions were a risk. We helped save millions of 592 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 12: pensions with your help. 593 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 6: Was here. 594 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 12: He looked at the world from Park Avenue. I look 595 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 12: at it from scrant Pennsylvania. I look at it from Climont, Delaware. 596 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: Not a joke, is he well, no, maybe not a joke. Jeanie. 597 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 2: But what's he getting at here? Why not actually say 598 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 2: his name? 599 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 7: You know. 600 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 9: I think that's Joe Biden's way of speaking. I mean, 601 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 9: that's how Joe Biden has always spoken. There's only one 602 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 9: previous guy who was there, you know. And the reality 603 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 9: is is Donald Trump hasn't wrapped up the nomination yet, 604 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 9: he is not the primary opponent yet, so maybe we 605 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 9: hear more of that from Joe Biden. But the truth 606 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 9: is the Biden campaign feels, and rightly so, that the 607 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 9: more Trump they. 608 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 6: Can talk about, the better. 609 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 9: So if I was advising him, I would say, go 610 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 9: ahead and say it. You may want to be folksy 611 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 9: and say the previous guy, but go ahead and say Trump, 612 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 9: because for them, the more Trump the better. There is 613 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 9: very little path at this point for Donald Trump to 614 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 9: win in the general. The Republicans are facing a very, 615 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 9: very difficult time and we have seen that as we've 616 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 9: seen the special elections roll out. And that's not because 617 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 9: Joe Biden presents such a formidable challenge, because the head 618 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 9: to heads aren't great for Joe Biden, but because as 619 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 9: we look at the issue of abortion, as we look 620 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,719 Speaker 9: at the issue of democracy, as if we look at 621 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 9: Donald Trump. 622 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 6: It still looks. 623 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 9: Like Joe Biden will be able to repeat potentially what 624 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 9: he was able to do in twenty So for him, 625 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 9: Trump is okay to say. And I would advise him 626 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 9: to get over the folks seed the previous guy and 627 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 9: just go out and say it. If not now, as 628 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 9: soon as he wraps up the nomination. 629 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: Say his name. According to Janie and Shape, and I 630 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: think everyone agrees on this, whether it's Mike Pencer, Joe Biden, 631 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 2: COVID back at the White House will talk about it 632 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 2: next with the panel. This is Bloomberg. 633 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 634 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 635 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: tune and half, Boomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 636 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 637 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 638 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: The headline by the Associated Press kind of says it 639 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: all here, and it's not good for the White House 640 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: to mask or not to mask, is the headline. Biden 641 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: goes both ways. This is not a Fox News headline, 642 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: this is the Associated Press. Remembering of course that the 643 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: first Lady came down with COVID last weekend. That means 644 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 2: all new rules for Joe Biden coming off of the 645 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 2: Labor Day weekend. He was masking yesterday at the White House. 646 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: Most of the time. 647 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 13: He will be masking while indoors and around people, in 648 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 13: alignment with CDC guidance, and as as has been the 649 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 13: practice in the past, the President will remove his mask 650 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 13: when sufficiently distanced from others indoors and while outside as well. 651 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: All right, so that would be consistent with past policy 652 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 2: at the White House, but that's not really the way 653 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: it worked. Yesterday, the President, as we told you, held 654 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: an important event on the East Rooms to award the 655 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: Medal of Honor Vietnam War veteran. No mask. A lot 656 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 2: of people in the room, they were all shaking hands. 657 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: We reassembled our panel for some final thoughts here Genie, 658 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: Shanzino and Chape and Fay. I just wonder, now that 659 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 2: we're out of the pandemic here, Chapin, how careful, how 660 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: deliberate does Joe Biden does the White House need to 661 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,239 Speaker 2: be to avoid mixing messages and to open himself up 662 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 2: to Republican criticism on the campaign? 663 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 8: Very I mean, the misinformation over all things COVID has 664 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 8: been really you know, I think a disaster, and I'm 665 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 8: not blaming any one side. I think it comes from 666 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 8: both sides. But it is critically important for the President 667 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 8: of the United States to be consistent. And that's what's 668 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 8: been missing from the Trumpet administration to the Biden administration. 669 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 8: There has not been a consistent message. You know, should 670 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 8: we mask, should we not mask? You know, the does 671 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 8: the vaccine help against the new strains? We don't know, 672 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 8: but you should ge vaccinated anyway. That just doesn't sound 673 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 8: very scientific to me. I think everyone needs to get 674 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 8: their act together in the federal government. 675 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 2: This was suggested be a winning issue for the Biden administration. Genie, 676 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: does he mask up or move on? 677 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: You know? 678 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 9: I think they have to follow the protocol and when 679 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 9: anytime there's a breach from that, which we saw yesterday, 680 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 9: it's a problem. So they do have to be clear 681 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 9: on the protocol. They have to follow it. I don't 682 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 9: relish wearing a mask again, so I'm empathetic to this. 683 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: Genie and japin great conversation. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for 684 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe 685 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 2: if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else 686 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you can find us live 687 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: every weekday from Washington, d C. At one pm Eastern 688 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 2: Time at Bloomberg dot com