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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh we're back. Welcome back to the story of a

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Speaker 2: guy that I swear is going to end in unimaginable bloodshed,

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Speaker 2: but at this point he is a sex pest who

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Speaker 2: has fled Canada for Jamaica in order to start a

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Speaker 2: new evangelical church. Yeah, many such cases. We are back

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Speaker 2: with our guests for this week, Molly Lambert. Molly, welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show. Back to the show. Hello, Yeah, how

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Speaker 2: we feeling as we come back into part two.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready to see what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you want to drop any plugs at the start

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Speaker 2: here for your new podcasts?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I will have a podcast out later this year called

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Speaker 3: Jenna World Jenna Jamison Vivid Video in the Valley about

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Speaker 3: the history of the porn industry in Los Angeles and

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Speaker 3: uh yeah check it out when it comes out.

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Speaker 5: Excellent.

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Speaker 2: Well that gets us back in to part two and

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Speaker 2: closes out our cold opening.

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Speaker 5: He So we're back.

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Speaker 2: As I noted last episode, the Bad Kevin Smith had

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Speaker 2: founded KOs Deliverance International around the year two thousand and

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Speaker 2: when he fled to Jamaica, violating the terms of his probation,

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Speaker 2: he brought it with him. Now that Canadian magazine The

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Speaker 2: Walrus reported that he'd been going back and forth from

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Speaker 2: Jamaica for a while at this point, so he had

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Speaker 2: some sort of an established presence there at different evangelical churches,

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Speaker 2: and once he was on the run, he established a

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Speaker 2: permanent base of operations in downtown Montego Bay. He reconnected

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Speaker 2: with a childhood friend there from Jamaica College named Charlton,

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Speaker 2: who had remained in the country when Smith went off

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Speaker 2: to Canada and had become a pastor himself in the area.

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Speaker 2: Charlton served as a useful early source of connections while

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Speaker 2: Kevin built up his flock, but he also had a

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Speaker 2: sizeable head start by the time he moved there full

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Speaker 2: time time, thanks to his years of international work. Charlton

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Speaker 2: later claimed that Smith told him early on he'd started

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Speaker 2: ministering to Porchase Simpson Miller, the Prime Minister, and he

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Speaker 2: would also sometimes add vaguely that he talked to with

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Speaker 2: other government officials. So he's from a very early state

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Speaker 2: claiming to be ministering personally to like high level politicians

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Speaker 2: in Jamaica and have a lot of connections in the

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Speaker 2: local government. And there's some evidence this is true, including

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Speaker 2: the fact that he really does not get investigated for

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Speaker 2: any of his criminal history to the degree that you

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Speaker 2: might expect of somebody who starts who kind of comes

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Speaker 2: into Jamaica out of Canada and immediately starts up a

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Speaker 2: large and influential church. His flock grew rapidly, and in

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve he began affiliating his church with a larger

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Speaker 2: Pentecostal organization in Jamaica called Pathways International Kingdom Restoration Ministries

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Speaker 2: or I think PICKRIM would be the acronym there. I

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Speaker 2: like that, Yeah, there you go. It sounds like a

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Speaker 2: pokem on. It was not like a Pokemon unless I've

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Speaker 2: really lost the plot on that game. Over the last

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Speaker 2: few years. One regular talking point in Kevin sermons while

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Speaker 2: he's in Jamaica is that he hadn't left Canada because

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Speaker 2: he had committed sex crimes and had to flee because

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to do probation. He had rejected Canada

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Speaker 2: and his comfortable first world life there to return home

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Speaker 2: to Jamaica because he was so loyal to the Jamaican people, Right.

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Speaker 1: I like that. He's like, he's like, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not you, it's me. Canada by Hiah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's reframing it. You guys didn't get forced

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Speaker 3: out of Los Angeles, You just you chose to go

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Speaker 3: to Portland.

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Speaker 2: Right right, right, And he's choosing to go to Jamaica

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Speaker 2: because he's so loyal to the Jamaican people, which is

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Speaker 2: just also a really fucked up way of pretending you

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Speaker 2: didn't sexually assaulted guy, Like there's no non fucked up

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Speaker 2: way to do that, exactly, but I guess this is

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Speaker 2: particularly fucked up. I'm going to play a clip from

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Speaker 2: a revival that he did six or seven years yars

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Speaker 2: ago where he talks about why he left Canada for Jamaica.

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Speaker 2: Both so you can again get an idea of like

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Speaker 2: the personal charisma like here the reaction of the crowd

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Speaker 2: when he talks about this stuff because they're buying it,

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Speaker 2: and also so you can hear like how he is

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Speaker 2: framing why he wound up in Jamaica. Now, in this

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Speaker 2: specific part of the sermon, he's discussing a conversation he

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Speaker 2: had during a brief trip back to Canada with one

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Speaker 2: of his pentecostal mentors in Canada. So this is like

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Speaker 2: a Canadian guy asking like, why are you going why'd

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Speaker 2: you leave? Why'd you go to Jamaica? Right, that's the

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Speaker 2: context of this part of the speech.

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Speaker 6: Talk to me now, he said, what takes you all?

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Speaker 6: Is that jiy s? He said, the other people thing

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Speaker 6: they have to help God don't get polished. And that's

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Speaker 6: like the church always splits and divide for seven years.

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Speaker 5: That's giving him scene. How do you have scene to remain?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 5: I see hopping to administering. Now he's got any more more.

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Speaker 6: He's somebody to teach your Wait a second, let me

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Speaker 6: teach you, he said.

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Speaker 1: Don't you know?

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Speaker 5: He said, you understanding? You see look at you.

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Speaker 6: You are coming here and your mind all as coming

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Speaker 6: here to take back to Jamaica. Do you know what

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Speaker 6: you're doing? I said, no, tell me. He said, you

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Speaker 6: are watering the scene.

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Speaker 1: I said, what for your me?

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Speaker 6: He said, because you love your people. I look at

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Speaker 6: being away from more tree days. Because what is.

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Speaker 1: The like music and like breathing, combo, very athletic.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful, man, But you gotta hear like the reaction

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Speaker 2: he gets people are that is you.

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Speaker 5: You can't fake a crown down there.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna up. Like Kevin's advocate for a minute, here Uh,

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Speaker 3: he's just doing some preaching. You know, he's talking in

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Speaker 3: a preacher style. Yeah, it sounds it's it's stylized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the you can really like, Yeah, you can

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Speaker 2: hear it. It's fast. It's fascinating to me how international

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Speaker 2: that like American Pentecostal preacher voices. I used to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, down in the depths of hell, but then

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Speaker 2: I got risen up by God.

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Speaker 1: Like it's very like he's like doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: mouth breathing. And as a podcast producer, that's my worst time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, Sophie, that's why you're never going

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Speaker 2: to make it as an evangelical minister.

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Speaker 5: You know, I say this all the time. I'm like, Bishop,

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Speaker 5: I'm a fucking bishop. God damn. That's my back plan.

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Speaker 2: Part of the way I keep recommending the movie Marjoe

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Speaker 2: and I know, I talk about it all the time

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Speaker 2: because it's great, is because he really explains like why

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Speaker 2: that voice works and how you can like kind of

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Speaker 2: see it evolving. He was like one of the one

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Speaker 2: of the key figures in like making that be a thing,

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Speaker 2: and it's just fascinating to watch in real time. But

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Speaker 2: it's interesting how universal that is. At least among like

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Speaker 2: English speaking parts of the world, right, Like, even when

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a different dialect of English, the same

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Speaker 2: basic cadence a voice works really well.

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Speaker 3: Oh Marjo looks fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Oh it fucking rules.

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Speaker 2: No, that movie rips, rips like a son of a bitch, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you watch it, Yeah you'll love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, I just didn't didn't really, I don't know

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Speaker 3: anything about Pentecostal preachers or yeah child, uh you know preacher.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting about Marjo is he kind of he started

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Speaker 2: out before the religious right was a thing, and then

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Speaker 2: he kind of breaks good, Like he decides that the

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Speaker 2: Pentecostal movement and its alliance with the religious right is

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Speaker 2: kind of evil and a grift, and he decides to

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Speaker 2: like leave and film undercover during like his last year

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Speaker 2: preaching within it. So it's it's just a fascinating picture

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Speaker 2: of the start of the movement that has really taken

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Speaker 2: over American politics right at its kind of like gestation period.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't you think it goes back even further all

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Speaker 3: the way?

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Speaker 2: Well that's just elements.

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Speaker 5: Sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we love a charismatic grifter. Oh, yes, like the

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Speaker 3: national character.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, go on, yeah, yeah, tell me certainly

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Speaker 2: that part of it has existed for a long time. Yeah, simple, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course. The unstated truth here is that Kevin left

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Speaker 2: Canada when he was on probation for sexual assault, and

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Speaker 2: he is a registered sex offender at the time he's

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Speaker 2: giving the speech. There are allegations that his government connections

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Speaker 2: helped him smooth this over. It's unclear whether Pathways new

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Speaker 2: when they accepted him into the Broader Umbrella organization. He

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Speaker 2: was eventually disowned by the group after all the killings,

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Speaker 2: but initially the sheer amount of money he brought in

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Speaker 2: seems to have kept everybody quiet. The Reverend Adenair Jones

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Speaker 2: of the Church of God in Jamaica would later accuse

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Speaker 2: Pathways of exactly this, of basically ignoring the obvious evidence

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Speaker 2: that this guy was dangerous because there was money in him.

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Speaker 5: And I'm going to quote from a.

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Speaker 3: Artist, okay, and not to play Keaven's advocate again, but

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Speaker 3: that's my role on the show.

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Speaker 5: I think, no, no, no, sure, But it also sounds.

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Speaker 3: Like I haven't heard about the throat slittings yet, so

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Speaker 3: imagine you know, I'm coming from a place of innocence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not knowing where he lands.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like perhaps this child was brought into this

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Speaker 3: preacher thing without sort of his consent. You know, he

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Speaker 3: was told all this stuff about himself, about being special.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, about being a prophet.

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Speaker 3: And maybe there are some issues with his sexuality being

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Speaker 3: repressed coming out of a culture, both a Christian culture

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Speaker 3: and you know, growing up in Jamaica where there's just

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Speaker 3: a culture of homophobia. Maybe he's just a troubled a

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Speaker 3: troubled dude, you know. Yeah, And it's almost almost not

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Speaker 3: his fault he got forced into this line of work

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Speaker 3: because you know, I don't know, he was chosen sort

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Speaker 3: of without his his choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always a degree with all of these guys

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Speaker 2: where you wonder, like where does the complicity start, right,

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Speaker 2: because there is often a case where like someone is

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Speaker 2: like a victim in this period of time, right, Well, it.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like he's a victim of his own circumstances, Like

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Speaker 3: don't you know. It's obviously it's not okay that he's

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Speaker 3: actually assaulted somebody, But it does sound like he could

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Speaker 3: have had a different life if he had been raised

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Speaker 3: under different circumstances. It sounds like he was really groomed

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Speaker 3: into this position of being a religious leader and also

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Speaker 3: in a religion where there's a lot of homophobia and

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Speaker 3: sounds like he might be queer. Yeah, so I'm feeling

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Speaker 3: bad for Kevin at this point. I feel like his

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Speaker 3: life sucks and he's trapped in it.

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Speaker 5: I feel both. Let's see, ye, let's.

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Speaker 3: See if I change my mind.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he is a registered he's as exist.

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Speaker 3: No, but I mean I'm saying, like coming out of

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Speaker 3: a super like he may have things may have happened

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Speaker 3: to him as well. This is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: And he alleges things happened to him. He was sexually

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Speaker 2: assaulted as a kid, He was abused as a kid.

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Speaker 5: So like, there is it, and it excuses it.

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Speaker 3: But there's a cycle in place, obviously, and.

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Speaker 2: She's certainly part of a cycle, and he's part of

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Speaker 2: a cycle of like child abuse wherein young charismatic kids

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Speaker 2: are adopted into this movement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the charismatic child preacher thing also just seems like

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Speaker 3: that's very exploitative. Yes, it would fuck you up no

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Speaker 3: matter what. No way to be well adjusted from that.

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Speaker 2: Which is a big part of like what the documentary

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Speaker 2: Marjo goes into is like him being like, I know

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Speaker 2: I'm robbing people, and I know that what I am

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Speaker 2: doing is bad and perpetuating this movement, and also because

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Speaker 2: of how I was raised, it's literally all I know

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Speaker 2: how to do, like it's my only marketable skill.

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Speaker 3: But also, isn't it sort of like it's a little

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Speaker 3: bit consensual robbing? Right? Yeah, Like if somebody, if somebody

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Speaker 3: wants to give you money for some nonsense, you're not

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Speaker 3: stealing it from them, You're not forcing it out of them.

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Speaker 3: There's other things you could give people. Then I can't

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Speaker 3: to seem worse. Sorry, I'm really playing Cabin's advocate.

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Speaker 2: No, well, we're Here's what gets me fucked up about

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Speaker 2: that is I can see that logic, and I can

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Speaker 2: make that argument, but I can also see that logic

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Speaker 2: leading you into gradually becoming a cult leader. Like it

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Speaker 2: starts at the little steps, like.

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Speaker 3: Do you take Patreon for your podcast?

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Speaker 2: I don't, but I don't have a problem with it, right,

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Speaker 2: And like if.

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Speaker 3: Somebody wanted to pay you for like your charismatic ramblings

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Speaker 3: on a microphone, sure, well, don't see that as exploited

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Speaker 3: of You're like, they just want to give me money

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Speaker 3: because they appreciate me.

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Speaker 2: I don't see it as inherently, but I do see

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Speaker 2: it as potentially right in that because I've watched this happen. Right,

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Speaker 2: there are some cults where it starts out as like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is just a person who is like a content

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Speaker 2: provider online, and then the level of like adoration and

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Speaker 2: fame and the weird parasocial relationships they get, they take

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Speaker 2: it in really abusive directions. But like we've all seen

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Speaker 2: plenty of cases of like white men in media who

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Speaker 2: wound up with like very aggressive, like aligned fan bases

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Speaker 2: and went increasingly insane. It's not a it's not detached

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Speaker 2: completely from this like we're talking about this kind of

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Speaker 2: psychological like this like wheel in the case of like

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Speaker 2: evangelical Christianity. But it also it's not detached from like

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Speaker 2: celebrity culture, right, Like it's it's it's not really great

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Speaker 2: for people, especially when they're really young. I think if this,

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Speaker 2: if this starts to happen to you when you're older,

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Speaker 2: you have you can have more of like a defense

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Speaker 2: against it. If you've got a family, if you've got friends,

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Speaker 2: if you've got a good number of people who know

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Speaker 2: you and have known you, I.

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Speaker 3: Think being famous makes everybody crazy. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: it matters when it happens. I think being a child

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Speaker 3: it's a form of abuse, and it is like making

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Speaker 3: a child do any kind of.

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Speaker 2: Job, you know, Sure, that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Any kind of work is like, no, kids shouldn't be working. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But it's kind of in the Michael Jackson family of things,

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Speaker 3: where it's like, oh, are we supposed to deny this

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Speaker 3: child's incredible abilities that you know the world should be

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Speaker 3: deprived of the greatest performer of all times?

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Speaker 5: Do you stop them from playing? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think about this the other day because there are

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Speaker 3: kids with podcasts now and I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's just a bad idea.

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Speaker 5: But they're also But.

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Speaker 3: I was also just like, oh, that's sad for them.

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Speaker 3: They're making content. They should be like in a laying yard. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like playing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's messy, And I don't know what the actual

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Speaker 2: solution is here.

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Speaker 3: What I'm saying is we're all complicit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's agree on banning children from being advertised too.

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Speaker 2: Can we at least start there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can start there.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that'll start fixing some of the problems for sure,

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, maybe have a government agency dedicated

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Speaker 2: entirely watching the parents of child actors.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but if you got like a million dollar contract

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Speaker 3: to advertise Galaxy gas to eleven year olds.

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Speaker 5: Sure, absolutely get them hooked, get them hooked. No no, no,

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Speaker 5: no, no no no.

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Speaker 2: I think I think kids need to be doing way

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Speaker 2: more drugs. Look, I mean, look at what they're getting

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Speaker 2: up to. Have you seen this Minecraft movie shit like

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Speaker 2: it seems like if the kids were getting a high,

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Speaker 2: they'd be a lot healthier. No, don't do drugs, kids,

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Speaker 2: or do Okay, don't listen to me.

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Speaker 1: Back to the other Kevin's been.

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Speaker 5: Back to the other Kevin Smith. So yeah.

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Speaker 2: The Reverend Adnair Jones of the Church of God in

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Speaker 2: Jamaica would later accuse Pathways of basically ignoring the other

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Speaker 2: Kevin Smith's criminal history and problematic history in order to

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Speaker 2: make money. The Jamaica Gleaner writes. Jones said that congregations

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Speaker 2: have been too accommodating of virtually anyone bearing a Bible

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Speaker 2: who could delivers soundbites using charisma and flare to flourish,

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Speaker 2: as did Smith and initially KOs fits in with the

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Speaker 2: rest of the Pentecostal churches in the country. Its website

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Speaker 2: claimed our divine mandate is to transform the people by

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Speaker 2: the power of Jesus Christ, and stated that the mission

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Speaker 2: of his church was to win souls to the Kingdom

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Speaker 2: of the Lord Jesus Christ and deliver the lives of

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Speaker 2: people from the snares of darkness. Pretty standard stuff, However,

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Speaker 2: while most pastors within Pathways affiliated churches went by the

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Speaker 2: title pastor, which is normal, Smith showed an early flare

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Speaker 2: for the extreme. His website listed him as the president

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Speaker 2: and founder of Chos Deliverance International, as well as Chief

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Speaker 2: Special Advisor of the King's Oracles, and he ordered his

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Speaker 2: followers to refer to him in person as excellency, his excellency,

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Speaker 2: or your grace. And I think we can see where

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Speaker 2: problems are starting here.

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Speaker 5: Now, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's unclear to me, number one, who the

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Speaker 2: King's Oracles were. I have not come across that an

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Speaker 2: explanation of that title, so I don't know what that

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Speaker 2: is exactly supposed to mean. It's also unclear to me

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Speaker 2: win the Prosperity Gospel preachings got into Kevin's sermons, right,

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Speaker 2: Is this something that he's really talking about? Before he

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Speaker 2: lands in Jamaica, but during his first five or so

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Speaker 2: years on the island he becomes increasingly enmeshed in prosperity

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Speaker 2: Gospel preaching, which is a major part of kind of

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Speaker 2: the charismatic Christian evangelical movement. The prosperity gospel started out

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Speaker 2: in the United States. And the way this works it

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Speaker 2: basically you're preaching that God works like a high yield

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Speaker 2: savings account or a really good four oh one K, right,

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Speaker 2: if you put money into God, and by God I

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Speaker 2: mean the church that you go to and it's pastor

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Speaker 2: by tithing regularly giving up the church a percentage of

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Speaker 2: your income and then handing out additional seed offerings on

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Speaker 2: a weekly basis, and seed offerings kind of the key

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Speaker 2: is that it hurts. Right, every week, you're supposed to

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Speaker 2: give more money than you can afford to the church, right,

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Speaker 2: and the promise is that if you do this, if

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Speaker 2: you give all you can to the point where it

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Speaker 2: like damages your financial stability, God will reward you with

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Speaker 2: miraculous financial gifts. So again, it really is like a

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Speaker 2: four oh one K that works on a much faster

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Speaker 2: time period. If you give God more money than you

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Speaker 2: can afford. Now, God will give you back many times

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Speaker 2: that amount of money, you know, at some point in

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Speaker 2: the near future. That's like the literal premise upon which

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Speaker 2: prosperity Gospel is predicated. Now, it's probably worth taking another

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Speaker 2: asiet here to discuss prosperity Gospel and more detail, since

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Speaker 2: it is one of the root problems with American evangelical

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Speaker 2: Christianity as a whole. The gist of it is that

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Speaker 2: in the late eighteen hundreds in the US, there are

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Speaker 2: two different strands of revivalist christian thought that come together

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Speaker 2: and they cross pollinate. On one hand, you've got the

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Speaker 2: Holiness movement, who believes prayer works the same way the

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Speaker 2: force does in Star Wars. Right, it allows people with

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Speaker 2: sufficient faith to heal the sick and do magic because

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Speaker 2: all illness and discomfort come from sin. Right, So if

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Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit is in you, you can wipe sin

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Speaker 2: away from people and it makes them able to either

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Speaker 2: heal or even perform super human acts. Now, the Holiness

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Speaker 2: movement kind of opens the door to a really theatric

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Speaker 2: church going experience, which is a key aspect of revival culture.

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Speaker 2: You're not just telling people they're healed. You have people

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Speaker 2: play acting as healers and the sick, right, and this

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Speaker 2: provides kind of an emotional and social outlet. People can

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Speaker 2: come in barely able to move and then start jumping

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Speaker 2: around and dancing and they'll get this like huge surge

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Speaker 2: of applause and this kind of like it's a performance, right,

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Speaker 2: So there's this two way relationship between the performers and

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Speaker 2: the people reacting to it that has this kind of

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Speaker 2: catharsis in it, and there's a degree of forced cognitive

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Speaker 2: dissonance here. As Associate professor of religion Donathan Bahar writes

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Speaker 2: for nine marks dot org, the key was to believe,

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Speaker 2: pray and hold on to it, believe that it is yours,

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Speaker 2: and act out the healing even if lying symptoms persist. Right, So,

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Speaker 2: even if you know you're not cured, those symptoms because

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Speaker 2: you've been cured are a lie. Right, If you feel

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Speaker 2: like you still have cancer, you have to just ignore

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Speaker 2: that because that's the devil trying to trick you into

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Speaker 2: believing that you're still sick. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: like you know, there's a lot of victim blamey stuff

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Speaker 2: around illness in American culture period, but this is one

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Speaker 2: of the places in which it manifests. Right is in

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Speaker 2: this kind of movement. Now, there's still an This is

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Speaker 2: still the Holiness movement kind of an underlying pillar of

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Speaker 2: charismatic evangelism today, and it's why all of these churches

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Speaker 2: are such fertile hunting grounds for guys like the other

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Speaker 2: Kevin Smith. Now, the other movement that collides with the

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Speaker 2: Holiness movement in the late eighteen hundreds to create prosperity

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Speaker 2: gospel is the New Thought movement. And the New Thought

398
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Speaker 2: movement isn't an explicitly Christian movement. It's kind of a

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Speaker 2: precursor to the self help movement. It's related to scientology,

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Speaker 2: Dianetics is involved in this, and it's also the root

401
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Speaker 2: of stuff like the Secret Right. And the basis of

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00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 2: the New Thought movement is that you can radically alter

403
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Speaker 2: your mind, body, and situation through purging negative thoughts and

404
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: reinforcing positive ones. Right, And kind of the main semi

405
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 2: secular figure we get out of the New Thought move

406
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Speaker 2: is Norman Vincent Peel, who's booked The Power of Positive

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00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 2: Thinking in the fifties and sixties, is a big influence

408
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Speaker 2: on young Donald Trump. And all this stuff kind of

409
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: collides together and gives us the Prosperity Gospel, which is

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Speaker 2: based on a merger of the two and starts to

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Speaker 2: spread overseas in like the eighties and nineties right to

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Speaker 2: a lot of countries that have exploding evangelical movements in

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Speaker 2: the post colonial era. And Jamaica, which has a lot

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Speaker 2: of impoverished people who are desperate for hope that feels actionable,

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Speaker 2: is a particularly fertile breeding ground for Prosperity Gospel to

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Speaker 2: start taking over, right, And so it really does, and

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what provides what tills the soil for

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Speaker 2: the church that Kevin is going to start here in

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Speaker 2: the early two thousands, he begins hosting almost daily prayer sessions.

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Speaker 2: I think they're three or four times a week, and

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Speaker 2: those come with expected daily donations. So you're supposed to

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00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: give a tithe of your income and then you're supposed

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00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: to pay every day give a seed donation. And then

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00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 2: he has one on one courses. Right, he's still operating

425
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: as a psychotherapist, like you can pay him for therapy too. Basically,

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00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 2: the idea is all of your money goes to Kevin

427
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: and the church, right, like every dime that you get

428
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: goes here, and if you're spending money on anything else,

429
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Speaker 2: even spending money on like food or rent, you're kind

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Speaker 2: of not putting your faith in God. And that's a sin,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 5: Like it's a very.

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Speaker 2: Abusive way to look at the relationship between like a

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Speaker 2: pastor and his church. Speaking of abusive relationships advertising, Yeah, the.

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Speaker 5: Shoe fits and we're back.

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Speaker 2: So Kevin starts offering free and discounted services to the

437
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: odd male member of the flock that he wants to

438
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 2: get closer to. And this is there's allegations that he

439
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: basically starts kind of whenever a young man will come

440
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: into the church, he'll start by offering that guy's family

441
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: like benefits, free services or breaks on the money they're

442
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 2: already spending on the church in order to get that

443
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 2: young man closer to him, you know, to make him

444
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: his assistant, to have him work for the church. And

445
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: there are some allegations that he basically starts operating a

446
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: male harem through these kind of tactics, right, pulling in

447
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: young men this way. This is not something we have

448
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: a lot of detail about, in part because in Jamaica,

449
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: admitting that you were abused in this way, like there's

450
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: a lot of consequences to it, not that there's not

451
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: in the United States, but it's hard to get people

452
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: talking directly about this kind of relationship. Right It's not

453
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: clear how much of this is like just psychological and

454
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: how much of this is actual physical sexual violence, but

455
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: there are direct allegations that he used these kind of

456
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 2: relationships to engage in what was at least adjacent to

457
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: human trafficking. The Gleaner a Jamaican investigative news site with

458
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: very good reporting on Smith and maybe the worst coded

459
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: website I've ever used, which is not their fault. I

460
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: know what budgets are like right now, it's just rough.

461
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: They interviewed a former member of the church named Jivon.

462
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: At age seventeen, Jivon was taken that's his word, from

463
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: his parents by Smith and used as an errand boy

464
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: for the church. Now it's unclear to me. Does Kevin

465
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: force this guy's parents to give their kid up, or

466
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: does he bribe them in some way, or is it

467
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: a situation where they just feel like, well, this guy's

468
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: the prophet and we can't say no to him. Jievon

469
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: claims that at the start he sees Kevin as like

470
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: a foster father, and he feels chosen like he's maybe

471
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: the Prophet's adopted son. Right, But this quickly gets disabused

472
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: because Kevin takes advantage of this position of trust to

473
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: have Jivon handle intensive, time consuming tasks like counting the

474
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: money given it offerings every week and do them for free.

475
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: And this is not an easy or a small task

476
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: because a lot of money is coming in. Per Jivon.

477
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: There were four different types of offerings. You have the one

478
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: hundred dollars offering that starts the service, the thousand dollars

479
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: seed offering, and then the regular offering, and then another

480
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: offering where you make covenant with the word. So by

481
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: the mid aught some people are donating four times a

482
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: day with services three times a week Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday.

483
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: There's also, you know again, these kind of one on

484
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: one sessions where he's making money sometimes up to like

485
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty dollars for what's called a deliverance

486
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: session where he has like a one on one spiritual

487
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: encounter with the person. And since Jievon's doing a lot

488
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: of the counting of money here, he's able to give

489
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 2: the gleaner an educated estimate for how much the church

490
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: is pulling in, and he claims that a single night

491
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 2: could bring in a quarter of a million US dollars

492
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: or more, which means Kevin's Church is pulling down three

493
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: quarters of a million a week just from services. But

494
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: he also offers up a bunch of side sessions as

495
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: noted earlier, which brings their estimated weekly income up to

496
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: around a million. And just what we know objectively about

497
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 2: the assets, the number of properties the church held, this

498
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 2: is a pretty credible estimate for what they're kind of

499
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: making bringing in at their.

500
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: Heights so much fucking money.

501
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is they're making a ton of money, so crazy,

502
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: But they're also almost always He's expanding so rapidly. He's

503
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: buying so many new properties that the amount of money

504
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: it costs to keep the church operational is pretty close

505
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: to the income they're bringing in on a weekly basis.

506
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: So there's always this level of stress of like, we

507
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 2: really need to continue to squeeze our members for as

508
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: much as we possibly can, otherwise this house of cards

509
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: is going to fall apart.

510
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 5: Now.

511
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: The Jamaica Gleaner goes into more detail about the different

512
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: grifts that Smith built into the foundation of his church.

513
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 5: Quote.

514
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: Members of Pathways Christian Cathedral, as the church was sometimes called,

515
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: were charged a fee of five hundred dollars for adults

516
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: and one hundred for children for the monthly miracle Covenant

517
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: Seed for the church's ministerial upliftment. They also paid tithes

518
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: offering Covenant seed or other special contributions as requested by Smith.

519
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: Membership cards also came at a cost, with adults and

520
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 2: children paying five hundred dollars and one hundred dollars respectively,

521
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: while widows were charged two hundred dollars. The more one gives,

522
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: the more God gets happy, one church member told the

523
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: Sunday Gleaner in defense of the numerous payments they would

524
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: the leader would help a lot of people in need,

525
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: But nobody's talking about that. And that is an aspect

526
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: of this too, is like people are seeing there are

527
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: actual community services that are being operated now, not to

528
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 2: the extent of costing a million dollars a week, but

529
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: there's also enough that people can be like, well, the

530
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: money's clearly going to a good cause, right. Members were

531
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: expected to volunteer time to help, you know, staff these

532
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: different sort of community organizations, and also to show up

533
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: at regular festivals, for which they'd be expected to pay

534
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: like two hundred dollars or five hundred dollars for a ticket.

535
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: And while there is aid for parishioners, this is also

536
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: often a grift. For example, Smith offered loans to members

537
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: of the church at a fifteen percent interest rate, which

538
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: is not exactly charity, right, we can say that about that.

539
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: What does he want with all this money? Though, Like

540
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: I don't understand it's so much money. What is he

541
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: doing with.

542
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, he's got he's building his empire, right, he's operating

543
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: as we'll talk about it, like he's operating businesses in

544
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: the community. Now he's trying to start like other churches.

545
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: And he's like he's like building, getting into real estate.

546
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: You know there there's always places to spend this kind

547
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: of money.

548
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: Because now he's got so much money that he can't

549
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: keep he's putting it into real estate like they do.

550
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: And the other thing is that, like there's bribes that

551
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: have to be paid to local politicians. Like he talks

552
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: about it as if he's like ministering to these guys.

553
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: But there's always bribes to be paid, right, So you

554
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: know that's not a zero percent of the story. Here too,

555
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: Jievon describes his own role within the church in unsparing terms.

556
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: We were like slaves. I was not allowed to go

557
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: around my parents or any relatives or friends outside.

558
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 5: Of the church.

559
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: And he works for both the church and for Smith's

560
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: psychotherapist business, which is how a lot of these one

561
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: on one sessions were marketed. He had to get permission

562
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: if he wanted to do anything besides work, even to

563
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: go get a haircut. He describes it, yes, essentially like

564
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: he's in prison. KOs Ministries does open a food bank

565
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: with some of the money that Kevin makes, and they

566
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: establish a program to help poor students pay their school fees.

567
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: They pool donations to help fund medical care for small

568
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: children and elderly parishioners. And this is done in part

569
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: because it's like a really good recruitment tool, right, Like

570
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: this helps bring more people in, and he's also able

571
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: to He's able to take in donations for himself and

572
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: also take in donations to fund these different organizations, so

573
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: it's not cutting as much into his bottom line. The

574
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: primary appeal of the church is always Kevin's personal charisma.

575
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: Per reporting in The Walrus, one former attendee Charise happened

576
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: to pass by the church one day and heard Smith's voice.

577
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: That voice sounds powerful, she remembers, thinking she went inside.

578
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: Charis immediately felt that Smith wasn't a typical pastor. He

579
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: insisted on being referred to as his excellency. He spoke

580
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: eagerly about the gospel of prosperity. Charis and former members

581
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: say Smith regularly brought up the fact that he was

582
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: a Canadian citizen, a point of privilege. He leveraged to

583
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: suggest that he could help get others visas to work

584
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: or study in Canada for a fee. Smith charged for

585
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: consultations or prayers, attendance at workshops, and other events. One

586
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: event in twenty thirteen, a wealth Transfervation summit entitled money

587
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: Come to Me Now, promised explosive prophecies to help participants

588
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: break the cycle of poverty forever.

589
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 5: Wow, you see, like the.

590
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just a no end to the grifting. Like

591
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: he's doing every playbook, every single playbook.

592
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: Okay, it's getting depressing now I understand, Yeah.

593
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 5: It's getting depressing.

594
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: And there's so much of this that is like predicated

595
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: on Well, he got out to Canada, so he must

596
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: have some connections, he can get me out like that.

597
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: Just how much poverty provides the opportunity here, because there's

598
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: like no easy way out of poverty and people are

599
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: desperate to believe there's hope, you know. So it's it's

600
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: the bummer, Yeah, it's it's bleak as hell. Now, the

601
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: good news is that Scherise has the presence of mind

602
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: to evaluate the promise of Smith is making based on

603
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: their impact on her real life. So she's to see,

604
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: I've been given money to this guy, and I am

605
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: not getting it back in any way, right, And you're

606
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: not supposed to think this way. Remember, at the root

607
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: of all this is that you have to ignore your

608
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: lying symptoms if they tell you that handing over money

609
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: to the church hasn't made anything better, right, You're not

610
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: supposed to feel like that. You're supposed to think that way.

611
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: And Jeevon eventually comes to the same conclusion as Cherise,

612
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: But because he's not a normal congregant, but someone raised

613
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: in the church whose whole family buys into Kevin's bs,

614
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: the task of leaving is a lot harder for him.

615
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: He attempts to flee for the first time in November

616
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: of twenty fifteen, and this would prove to be the

617
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: first of ultimately six attempts to flee Kevin Smith's church

618
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: over the years. For The Gleaner, each time I ran away,

619
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: the church members blamed me for being disobedient, he stated,

620
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: adding that the last time he ran off, Smith placed

621
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: a death prophecy on his head, saying that his head

622
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: would return on a platter. Once you try to leave,

623
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: they instill fear within you. Jievon said. Many people refuse

624
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: to leave pathways in international out of fear for their lives,

625
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: and in fact, they believed he was a prophet, and

626
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: Kevin kind of cultivates this reputation for prophecy in the

627
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: same way any other grifter of this kind does. He

628
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: makes these constant, big predictions about like they're going to war,

629
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: a natural disaster are coming, right, but he doesn't say where.

630
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: And like if you say there's going to be a

631
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: war that breaks out soon or a natural disaster, you'll

632
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: always be right, you know, Like, yeah, I predict that

633
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: in the next six months a major natural disaster will

634
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: strike the United States. I'll guarantee you that prophecy is correct,

635
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: because you can say that at any point in time

636
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: and it will be true in the United States or

637
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: most other countries, right, Like that's just the way the

638
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: world is, you know. The most compelling prophecies that he

639
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: would lay out, though related to individual members of the church.

640
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: Jivon recalled one that stuck in his mind. When Kevin

641
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: told a female congregant about a vision he'd had for future.

642
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: He prophesied saying that he saw her son in a

643
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: pool of blood with the name baby Killer. And about

644
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: a week later, the same incident happened and was on

645
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: the pages of the Western Mirror. And I don't know

646
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: this specific case, but it's one of those things, especially

647
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: if you get to know you know your flock, if

648
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: you have members of your church who have like family

649
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: members in gangs, it's not such a big prediction to

650
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: be like, what if you is going to lose a

651
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: loved one soon, right, because, like you know, that's just

652
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: how it happens when people are involved in gangs. So

653
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: it may just have been a situation like that. But

654
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: this causes the fact that he seems to have this

655
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: ability and that people believe it. It makes people afraid

656
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: of Smith, right, you don't want him to prophesy negatively

657
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: about you. And your family because you believe that this

658
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: can have an impact on you. And it's also hard

659
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: to leave if you're someone like Jeevon who started to

660
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: question you know the actual power of this guy, because

661
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: everyone you know in love is still in the church, right,

662
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: and so you can be cut off from your whole

663
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: support network by leaving fairly normal cult thing. And this

664
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: is why Jevon keeps coming back time and time again.

665
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: He's going to leave like five times before it finally sticks,

666
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: and things only change when he falls in love with

667
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: a member of the congregation and tries to start a

668
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: relationship with them. This enrages Smith because again Jievon hadn't

669
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: asked for permission, and Smith, along with a number of

670
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 2: other very young men, kind of wants to keep this

671
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: kid chased and close to him. Jievon claims the prophet

672
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: told him, if you think I'm going to marry you

673
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: and her, you make a big mistake, right as in

674
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: perform the marriage right, Like I have the ability to

675
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: determine who in this church can get married, and I'm

676
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: not going to prove that. And you get the feeling

677
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: it's kind of out of like a sense of jealousy

678
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 2: on his part. That he really doesn't want this kid

679
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: escaping his orbit in any way. But that is what

680
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: gets Jievon.

681
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 5: Out right so crazy.

682
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a pretty pretty normal deal. Gievon

683
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: ultimately leaves and stays gone, which may have saved his

684
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 2: life given what comes next, but in the immediate term

685
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: it causes him tremendous pain because Smith does command family

686
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: members to cut off their loved ones, and this is

687
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: not just a thing Jevon has reported. The Jamaica Gleamer

688
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: reports a young woman said she was kicked out of

689
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: the church after two years as a member because of

690
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: forn ocasion. They don't speak to me. I have two

691
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: uncles and aunt in law and three cousins still there.

692
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, he's doing and he's doing the scientology.

693
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 5: He's doing the every cult, right.

694
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: You know, he's doing the scientology.

695
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: He's doing scientology. He's doing he's doing the l right,

696
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, he's doing the l rod. He's not throwing

697
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: people off of boats making them search for gold, but

698
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: he's got a lot of that playbook to him.

699
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, he's doing the child labor.

700
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 5: Definitely, that the.

701
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: Cutting off family members, the stealing. Everybody's hard or earned money. Yeah,

702
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: he's got the holy trifecta of yep, yep ye running.

703
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, it's it's he's l running, he's hubbarding hard.

704
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: It's bad now.

705
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: One thing Hubbard would never have done that Smith does

706
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: that I don't fully understand is in twenty seventeen, he

707
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: returns to Canada and he hands himself over to the

708
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 2: Toronto Police. Why It's unclear, but reading between the lines,

709
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: I think he works out an arrangement with Canadian authorities

710
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: using his Jamaican government contacts as an intermediary right because

711
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 2: he doesn't go to prison, and he basically gets set

712
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: up in a situation where he pleads guilty on probation violations,

713
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: but he's allowed to return to Jamaica and then travel

714
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: internationally more easily. He's not like dealing with the fact

715
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: that he's wanted in Canada anymore over the next eighteen months,

716
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 2: as long as he finishes his probation Canada.

717
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: Why why Canada?

718
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: Well, he does have to make the five hundred dollars

719
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: donation to a rape crisis center. Oh okay done, And

720
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: they also require that he engage in sexual behavioral counseling,

721
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: but only if he stays in Canada for longer than

722
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: a month, So as long as he leaves Canada never

723
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: stays more than like a week at a time, he

724
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: doesn't have to do any counseling.

725
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: None of this math adds up.

726
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: That's yeah, seriously, that's fucking.

727
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: Despicably embarrassing Canada.

728
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: What we're doing.

729
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: We're missing a part of it. But again, it's definite

730
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: that like some of the money he brings in as

731
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: bribing local politicians, and my suspicion is that those local

732
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: politicians have connections in Canada and there's a less direct

733
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: kind of bribe going there.

734
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: Sure, it's still fucking despicable.

735
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: You know, there's ways to influence politicians and countries that

736
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: where that is looked at more that are still effectively

737
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: a bribe. Well, maybe you're getting invited to speak at

738
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: an event at like a resort in Jamaica or something

739
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: like that, or like a permit that you need because

740
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: you've got some sort of business over there, it gets

741
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: a little bit easier. I don't know exactly what's happening,

742
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: but clearly something sketchy happens here, right this kind of

743
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: sweetheart deal, It just seems unlikely that it would be

744
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: handed out otherwise. And yeah, but we don't exactactly know

745
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: why Canada agrees to let this guy off with just

746
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: the slappiest on the wrist of slaps on the wrist

747
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 2: for a multi year long probation violation after a sex crime.

748
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: I mean again, he's hubbarding, he's hovering, he's blackmailing and

749
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: paying off the government.

750
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, although Hubbard would never have turned himself into the.

751
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: Efforts comsoletely not, he would fucking.

752
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 5: H Yeah, he would have set. He would have set

753
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 5: to C.

754
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah that's but he So the understanding here is that

755
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: he's doing this so that he can travel easily.

756
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's so that basically he gets like,

757
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: you know, there's holds and stuff, showing his documents. Yeah,

758
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: and now he's allowed to travel easily as long as

759
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: he periodically call, like contacts his probation officer back in Canada.

760
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: Bad job Canada, Yeah.

761
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: Not great, not great work Canada. Bad job Canada, Bad

762
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: job Canada. Not the only time we've said that on

763
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: this podcast, and not the last time. But you know

764
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: who's not Canada.

765
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: Well we don't know that.

766
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, we don't know that.

767
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: We don't know these sponsors may or may not be Canadian,

768
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: there's no way to say, and we're back. So in

769
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: April of twenty eighteen, Smith holds an elaborate public party

770
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: for his thirty sixth birthday, which I think also kind

771
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: of doubles as a celebration of the fact that he's

772
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: about to be done with his probation terms. Police escorted

773
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: hundreds of his followers as they marched through the streets

774
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 2: of Montego Bay, and he follows them in a silver

775
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: stretch limousine. He goes on a spending spree, buying a

776
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: large rural compound with stables in livestock, several luxury homes

777
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 2: on the coast, sports cars, and several businesses on the land.

778
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: He begins constructing a new church called the Arc, which

779
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 2: is meant to be self sufficient and able to survive

780
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: in the event of an apocalypse. Right, so he's built,

781
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: he's bought his compound, he's building a church called the Ark,

782
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 2: and they're like growing food to try to get ready

783
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: for the end of days. And so, you know, things

784
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: seem to be going well for the other Kevin Smith

785
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: until twenty twenty. Now, if anyone listening is old enough

786
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: to remember back then, a virus called COVID nineteen started

787
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: spreading through the global population. Governments around the world entered

788
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: panic lockdowns with very little understanding of what might actually

789
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: happened or how long any of this was going to last.

790
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 2: It is a you know, we all remember right now,

791
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: Given the severity of the disease, it made total sense

792
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 2: that you would lock down. But as you might recall,

793
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: about a third of the population lost their minds over this,

794
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: right like, people do not react well to this and

795
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 2: the other. Kevin Smith is one of them. He seems

796
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: to have fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole himself first

797
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: by listening to and watching American COVID denialists online. So again,

798
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: we really we've got our part to play in this.

799
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: He starts spending way too much time on YouTube while

800
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: things are closed up, and that's not good for anybody.

801
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: And based on the reading I've done, he really starts

802
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: to go over the a once the vaccine becomes a

803
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 2: reality and governments around the world start talking about a

804
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: mass rollout. Since he's got this big platform, he starts

805
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: using both his church's social media and his actual pulpit

806
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: to howl to the masses that the COVID vaccines have

807
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: microchips in them, and per the Walrus, ingredients linked to

808
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: the Devil, which I love is a description of like.

809
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: Vaccine ingredients link to the devil, link to the.

810
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: Devil, Like what like sulfur, like, like what is linked

811
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: to the devil?

812
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: You put it in under a microscope and you see

813
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: little devil hats.

814
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, little little Satan faces.

815
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 3: Little satan's like little pitchforks.

816
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

817
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 2: I also just like the idea of like the Devil

818
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: was an international crime syndicate, and like you're like, yeah,

819
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 2: the Satan's fingerprints are all over this vaccine. We can

820
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: see bits of them in air well.

821
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got shooters everywhere.

822
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that is something the Devil's famous for famously.

823
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, the devil hosse shooters.

824
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

825
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Now he described wearing masks and getting vaccinated as

826
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: taking on the mark of the beast. And I think

827
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: we've all heard a lot of rhetoric like this since

828
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: COVID broke out, Right, Like I can remember when certain

829
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: and this is not this goes back before COVID, by

830
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 2: the way, right, The idea of describing certain things that

831
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: are just sort of like marks of modernity as taking

832
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: on the mark of the beast. I remember back in

833
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: the nineties when there were certain conspiratorial Christian pastors warning

834
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: people that like bar codes on products, which were new

835
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: at the time, were the mark of the beast. Like

836
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 2: bar codes are going to allow the government to track

837
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: everything that you do. You know, this is the devil

838
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: coming to like take this country down.

839
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: Now.

840
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 2: I will say a barcode makes more eschatological sense than

841
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: a vaccine as a mark of the beast, because the

842
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: Book of Revelations does describe followers of the Antichrist as

843
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: having a mark and that quote no one can buy

844
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: or sell unless he has the mark that is the

845
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: name of the of the beast or the number of

846
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: its name. Yeah, of course, Yeah, No one's really stopped

847
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: from buying and selling goods based on vaccination status. Right,

848
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't actually happen, But that's immaterial to guys like Smith. Right,

849
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: the fact that, well, but this doesn't like fuck man

850
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,439
Speaker 2: and anti vax people are running the United States now,

851
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: Like maybe this is not the mark of the beast

852
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: in any way. That doesn't really like factor into these

853
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: people's thinking, as it is the fact that the beast

854
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: I like all of this, Like apocalypse narrative is very

855
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: funny to me, just given the actual text of the

856
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: Book of Revelation, right, because the beast is not at

857
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: all described as you know, anything like what you hear

858
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: in the kind of popular fiction that's often inspired by

859
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: the Book of Revelations. The beast in the actual Book

860
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: of Revelations has ten horns and six heads, with ten

861
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: crowns on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.

862
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: It has it's like a leopard, but its feet are

863
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 2: like a bear's and its mouth was like a lion's mouth.

864
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what that has to do with the

865
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 2: COVID nineteen vac scene. You can twist that, I'm sure

866
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: into making it, but it just sounds like it sounds cool.

867
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: Some guy was tripping and described a rad monster. You know,

868
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: I've seen something like that on enough acid, and I'm

869
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 2: sure it was someone on ergot poisoning who wrote the

870
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: Book of Revelations. You know, many such cases. Smith also

871
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 2: described the vaccine as a plan for population control, which

872
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: also doesn't really make sense with the mark of the

873
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 2: Beast thing, because the marked are followers of the beast,

874
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: and if the Mark kills them off. It's kind of

875
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: the Antichrist shooting himself in the foot, right, Like the Antichrist, like,

876
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: why would you want to kill these people?

877
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 5: Right? He want them? He just as soldiers.

878
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: None of his math adds up.

879
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 5: None of this math ever adds up.

880
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy.

881
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

882
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: Now The Walrus has like done a deep dive into

883
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: where a lot of Smith's but like where he is online,

884
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: what stuff he's sharing, and where his beliefs kind of

885
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: come from, and a lot of it traces back to

886
00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: Glenn Beck, particularly his website The Blaze, which I is

887
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 2: just the least surprising thing in the world. But it's

888
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: so frustrating that that motherfucker continues to have the kind

889
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: of penetration that he has. One of the stories that

890
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: Smith shared that seems to have really radicalized him was

891
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: the arrest of Canadian pastor Arthur Pawlowski, who was fined

892
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: in December of twenty twenty for failing to wear a

893
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: mask while having an unpermitted anti mask protest. Now, I

894
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't even call this a slap on the wrist, Right,

895
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: he gets fined for breaking COVID lockdowns and having a

896
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 2: protest at the early stages of the pandemic, barely a

897
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: slap on the wrist, and in fact, just getting charged

898
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: with this is a huge boon to this guy's career

899
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: because suddenly he's a victim of religious suppression. Right, this

900
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 2: guy goes from a nobody to one of the most

901
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 2: famous pastors in the world, and other religious leaders like

902
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 2: Kevin Smith start screaming that he's a victim of state repression.

903
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: Pawlowski kind of decides to let this shit ride, and

904
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: so he holds another rally in February of twenty twenty one,

905
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: during which he carries a tiki tourt despite it being daylight,

906
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 2: for reasons that have absolutely nothing with signaling his support

907
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: to the fascists who you said torches to beat people

908
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: in Charlottesville back in twenty seventeen. Right, it's clearly nothing

909
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: suspicious about the fact that this guy does a tiki

910
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: torch rally during daylight in February of twenty twenty one, nothing.

911
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: To do with that loocking weirdos.

912
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 2: Proving that he was the one trickiest of one trick ponies.

913
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: Archur has continued this grift up to the present day

914
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: and has been locked in basically constant litigation as a result.

915
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: You know, every time things will calm down, he'll try

916
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: to commit some other public crime in order to get

917
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 2: charges against him so that he can fund raised off

918
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 2: of that. He has never been locked away or you know,

919
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: disappeared by the state, which you might see as evidence

920
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 2: that he's not in any way being persecuted.

921
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 5: Right.

922
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, this con works perfectly on guys like Smith. It

923
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: either works on them or they see it as useful

924
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: to share themselves.

925
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 5: Right.

926
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 2: And when Smith first hears about Padlowski's first charges, which

927
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 2: result in nothing but a fine, he posts on Facebook,

928
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: this is abomination persecution of the church in Canada. The

929
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: world is watching and mouths are closed. We must know

930
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: what's coming to Jamaica now we had absolutely was not.

931
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 2: Jamaica is not gearing up for a crackdown on these people.

932
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 2: And in fact, thanks in large part to Kevin Smith

933
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 2: and Anti the Other Kevin Smith and other anti VAX's

934
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: religious leaders, less than half of Jamaican's have been vaccinated

935
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 2: against COVID nineteen at any point, a significantly lower rate

936
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: than most of their neighbors by summer of twenty twenty one.

937
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: Though Smith is totally pilled and COVID nineteen became the

938
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: sole focus of most of his sermons. From an article

939
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: in the Jamaica Gleaner. In one of the entries declaring

940
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: his mission, Smith, who appeared to be obsessed with titles,

941
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: declared himself his Excellency Doctor Kevin Osmith, Crown Bishop, an

942
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: end time nobby of him, conqueror, Lion of the Tribe

943
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: of Judah, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Yesos Christos,

944
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: the One and True Living God. Yahweh ninety ninety nine,

945
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: which is the opposite of sixty sixty six.

946
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 6: Uh.

947
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it also hard to fit on a business card.

948
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: Molly, you should totally take that title.

949
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need we need more. King of

950
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: Kings and Lord of Lords.

951
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 4: Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Podcaster writer, I think

952
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 4: yeahweh nine nine nine. That's basically a fucking uh. You

953
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 4: could get that as like a license plate. Yeah, YHVH

954
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 4: nine nine nine sounds good. He makes posts like forced

955
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 4: vaccination in law is rape. A man forcing something into

956
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 4: another man is buggery. A man forcing himself into a

957
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 4: woman is rape. No Prime Minister can change common law

958
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 4: and common sense. We don't need to go into all

959
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 4: of the different things that are wrong about that. That's

960
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 4: the kind of rhetoric that he's he's putting out of

961
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 4: this period of time.

962
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, his math doesn't add.

963
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: No, none of it adds up. In a post responding

964
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: to a recent statement by Prime Minister Andrew Holness in

965
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 2: which he stated that unvaccinated Jamaican should not expect the

966
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: government to prioritize them for bedspace, Smith prophesied, we will

967
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: be pushed out of the hospital and supermarket and the

968
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: airports and the businesses. Again, this doesn't happen. He began

969
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: preaching that the police and the military would soon corral

970
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: Jamaican citizens into camps and force them to take fatal vaccines.

971
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: Anyone who yielded to the state and took the vaccine

972
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 2: would be killed by God, not necessarily literally, but a

973
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: kind of spiritual death. Meanwhile, Smith promised, if you give

974
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: up your life for Christ Jesus, you will save it.

975
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: So he starts to insist that by October twenty second

976
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one, the Jamaican government will use fictitious

977
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: legislation to make the COVID vaccine mandatory. The end game

978
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: will be to try and deceive us or force us

979
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: into quarantine concentration camps. Prepare to stand your ground.

980
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, how are we going to get

981
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: to the throat cutting?

982
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 2: I mean, you could see it starting to happen here.

983
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I heard forced march to concentration camp.

984
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: Right, I want want here we go right, like the

985
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: government is coming force on the specific date we need

986
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: to be ready, right, that's going to set up a confrontation.

987
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: The Jim Jones situation.

988
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: Ye to come, yes, exactly. He predicts a series of

989
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: natural disasters around the globe that will coincide with this,

990
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: which is all pretty standard in time stuff, but it's

991
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: married to a marked invisible degradation in Smith's mental health state.

992
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 5: Quote.

993
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: Smith's behavior in person became noticeably stranger.

994
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 5: Over time.

995
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: He became more adamant that his congregants donate as much

996
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: money as possible, telling them that if those who had

997
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 2: money resisted giving, the member would crash and die, and

998
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: that Smith would send his wrath out to the members family.

999
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: So he's like, if you don't give me everything now

1000
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: so that I can get ready for this, I will

1001
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: make sure God kills your relatives in a car crash

1002
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: ten days before his predicted date for Jamaica, making the

1003
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 2: vaccine mandatory, Smith told his followers that anyone who gets

1004
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 2: vaxed now would be exit communicated from the church. He

1005
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: posted a video to Facebook two days later, insisting my

1006
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: job is the apocalypse and that an unveiling is coming soon.

1007
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: His followers were shortly thereafter ordered to prepare their photo

1008
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: IDs and church membership cards and gather at the ARC

1009
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: on October sixteenth. Never a good idea, Never a good idea.

1010
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 3: I'm really starting to wish this was about the mall

1011
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 3: rats Kevin Smith.

1012
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 5: That malrats.

1013
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: Yes, oh if only it was the mall rats Kevin Smith.

1014
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 3: It's like and it culminates and like he made Jersey Girl,

1015
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 3: and yeah it was bad for everyone's careers.

1016
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just go on like a fifteen minute rant

1017
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: about Jersey Girls and Tusk can last.

1018
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like the view askew, Prophecy is coming.

1019
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: No very different. And for an idea of how Smith's

1020
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: sermons leading up to October sixteenth, this day of prophecy sounded,

1021
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have Sophie play another clip.

1022
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 6: I have been sent to this nation to declare from America.

1023
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 6: Canada up when the world for the last come.

1024
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: Where got bad?

1025
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 6: Plot is we're been planned in the houses right a

1026
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 6: streets where we filing red plot?

1027
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 3: Yes, I said, I.

1028
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: Come from the dead dead.

1029
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 6: Hi, I'm these it is a.

1030
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: Sight Yeah okay sir.

1031
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1032
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: So he's you know, really amping people up. You're not

1033
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: getting people into a logical state of mind when you're

1034
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: doing that shit.

1035
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's committed to the to the to the

1036
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: grift yea to the bit.

1037
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1038
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: And it's unclear to me how much of this is.

1039
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: He has really started to spiral and his mental health

1040
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: has declined as a result of getting caught in this

1041
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 2: conspiratorial media loop.

1042
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: You know, also like look who was doing well mental

1043
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 3: twenty two? Who was like functioning?

1044
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: Me?

1045
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 5: Now everybody?

1046
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was doing good now?

1047
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 5: Right?

1048
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 2: So really, on the sixteenth, members of Smith's church start

1049
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: showing up outside the arc wearing all white. There's a

1050
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 2: sermon and service that follows that he's not conducting. He's

1051
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 2: got like lieutenants who are conducting the sermon and service,

1052
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: which goes on until around one am the next morning. Right,

1053
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: so they're doing like a marathon session. Smith's lieutenants manage

1054
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 2: the festivities up to this point, and he seems to

1055
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: have spent these hours like where people are gathering and

1056
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: like this is going on in a frenzy of social media, posting,

1057
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: mostly to Facebook, where he ordered everyone to show up

1058
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 2: at the ARC without their cell phones, wearing white saying

1059
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: the arc is loading now, the flood is coming. Go

1060
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: now run. He tells everybody that the ARC is going

1061
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: to leave on the eighteenth, and in case there's any

1062
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 2: doubt about what that means, he posts that in order

1063
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: to be saved, everyone at the ARC has to participate

1064
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 2: in what he called a quote Roman Catholic sacrifice that

1065
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: will have no survivors. The cops don't get called as

1066
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 2: a result of this. Nobody's like, well, this guy's telling

1067
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 2: everyone to come and there's going to be a sacrifice

1068
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 2: at this arc that no one lives through. Probably not

1069
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: worth Karen about right, must just be some like religious bluss.

1070
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: Dozens and dozens of his congregants take this seriously enough

1071
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: that they spend more than a day in prayer. Smith

1072
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 2: doesn't show up until the seventeenth, and his first command

1073
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: is for everyone to throw out the canned goods that

1074
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: they'd brought, expecting to need food. To survive the apocalypse. Then, confusingly,

1075
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 2: he ordered them to empty soda bottles and fill the

1076
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 2: soda bottles.

1077
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 5: Up with water.

1078
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: One member who shut up that day at the ARC

1079
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: was Michael Brown, who had been hospitalized for severe kidney

1080
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 2: issues and had forcibly discharged himself from the hospital after

1081
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: Smith had ordered everyone to show up at the church.

1082
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: We'll discuss Michael later, but this is a guy with

1083
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: a life threatening kidney problem who like leaves his hospital

1084
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 2: bed where he needs to be to stay alive in

1085
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: order to be at this thing because he considers it

1086
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 2: more important. Outside the church, Smith made congregants bowed down

1087
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: on their knees before entering, giving them judgment and writing

1088
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: their names in the Lamb's Book of Life, a biblical

1089
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: register of those chosen for salvation. The Walrus reports as

1090
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 2: congregants entered the church, Smith wrote name of each person

1091
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 2: in a book. When Tanica Gardner walked through the doors,

1092
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: Smith turned to her. Is your blood clean? He asked?

1093
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 2: Do you believe that I am the resurrection in the life.

1094
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: Gardner replied yes. Smith then said that her blood had

1095
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 2: to be cleansed in order for her to be resurrected.

1096
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 2: I will have to cut your throat, he told her.

1097
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: She allegedly again replied yes.

1098
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 5: Oh again. I don't know. Does she believe this is literal?

1099
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 5: Does he talk?

1100
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: Does he kind of explaining that this is actually like

1101
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: or is it just metaphorical? Do they really think? I

1102
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: don't know.

1103
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: So much of his rhetoric is like talking in terms

1104
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: that are apocalyptic and violent, but what you mean isn't literal?

1105
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: Up to this point, maybe people are like, well, you

1106
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: can't possibly mean he's kind of literally cut people's throats, right,

1107
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 2: that'd be nuts.

1108
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 5: You know, it's a.

1109
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: Spoiler that is exactly what he means. So at this point,

1110
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: members are ordered to lay on the ground and throw

1111
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 2: away any cleaning or sanitation supplies like antibacterial soap or

1112
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: wipes that they had on them. Well, this was going on.

1113
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: Someone throws a wine bottle onto the floor, and Smith

1114
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: orders a follower to use one of the shards to

1115
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: slit the throat of a congregant who happened to be

1116
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 2: seated near where the bottle had landed. He told another

1117
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,439
Speaker 2: male follower that in order to be worthy of heaven,

1118
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 2: he would have to let one of Smith's lieutenants cut

1119
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 2: his throat with a knife. This guy got so far

1120
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 2: as to lay down in front of a dude who

1121
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: had like a knife when he realized like, oh my god,

1122
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 2: this guy's gonna actually cut my throat, and he fucking runs,

1123
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: He like bounces. He's like, oh shit, you meant this.

1124
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 2: This isn't just some sort of a fucking thing we're doing.

1125
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, no no.

1126
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: And Smith's follower with the knife, a guy named Plumber,

1127
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: chases both of these guys, who like both of these

1128
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: guys flee the ark at this point when they're like,

1129
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: oh fuck, we're actually going to get right. No, no, no,

1130
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 2: He chases both of them ounta and he stabs them

1131
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 2: both in the back, wounding both of these men. Meanwhile,

1132
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: back inside the arc, Smith finds Michael Brown, the man

1133
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 2: with kidney failure who had left the hospital on his

1134
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: orders and the pastor told him, you have to die,

1135
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 2: but you will write because I am the resurrection and

1136
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: the Light. Now, this guy is still wheelchair bound and

1137
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: is still taking IVY medications, and Smith pulls the tubes

1138
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: out of this man, causing him to bleed to death.

1139
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 2: While this is happening, he turns his attention next to

1140
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: Taneka Gardner, who had already agreed to have her throat

1141
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 2: cut earlier for the Walrus. Smith then handed a knife

1142
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 2: to a seventeen year old follower named Billy, who instructed

1143
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: to cut Gardner's throat, but Billy hesitated, later saying that

1144
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 2: he remembered that one of the ten commitment states thou

1145
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: shalt not kill. Smith's right hand man, Andre Ruddick, stepped

1146
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: forward and, at Smith's urging, allegedly cut Gardner's throat. She

1147
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: died shortly.

1148
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: Thereafter Jesus Christ.

1149
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 2: So at this point, two people are dead inside the

1150
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: church and two more have been stabbed outside. Some parishioners

1151
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: have gotten the fuck out right. Other people flee when

1152
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: it becomes clear he's actually going to be killing us all,

1153
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: and they call the cops, right, although I should also

1154
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: note one of the people here is a police officer,

1155
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 2: one of the parishioners, and I don't think it's him

1156
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 2: who calls the cops, because he might have been down.

1157
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: It's unclear precisely who ordered what. But when the cops

1158
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: show up, members of Smith's church open fire. Some of

1159
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: them have guns, and the police start shooting back, and

1160
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: we get a little bit of a Waco situation on

1161
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: our hands here. Yeah, Plumber charges the cops with his

1162
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 2: still bloody knife and is shot and killed by the police,

1163
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: who themselves have to call for backup from the military

1164
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: because they're just not prepared to deal with this whole situation.

1165
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 2: The church crowd is fully split at this point. A

1166
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: lot of people have fled in sheer terror, but a

1167
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: number of them charge the police. Billy who'd cut Tanaka's

1168
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: throat also gets shot in the chest trying to rush

1169
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: the cops, but he ultimately survives. Smith is eventually arrested

1170
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: along with one of his higher ranking lieutenants, and the

1171
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: police begins searching his properties to try and figure out, like,

1172
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: what the fuck happened to you? Right from the perspective

1173
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: of cops, think of how wild this is. You know

1174
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: about this church. It's a normal like evangelical church, and

1175
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: then one day you show up and there's people with

1176
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: their throat slit and like stabbed out in front. And

1177
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 2: you show up and people start shooting at you and

1178
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: charging you with machetes, and you're like, oh my god,

1179
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: what the fuck is happening here? It's just like completely

1180
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: disorienting to everybody, so less than two weeks after this

1181
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: goes down. You know, Smith is in custody and incarcerated,

1182
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: and while he's being driven to Kingston with police escorts,

1183
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: the officers driving him take a detour that lengthens the drive,

1184
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: and then his vehicle crashes into two oncoming vehicles. Smith

1185
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: dies at the scene, along with a twenty six year

1186
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: old officer in the car with him, and two other

1187
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: officers are badly injured.

1188
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 5: There is a.

1189
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: Lot of immediate speculation like, oh, okay, so he was murdered,

1190
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: this is a setup because of what he knew or whatever,

1191
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: like something shady has gone down here. A post mortem

1192
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: revealed that Smith had basically taken off, like like grabbed

1193
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 2: the driver's shoulder and pulling him to cause the accident. Yeah,

1194
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: that's the official story. I don't know, it's there's some

1195
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: weird stuff here. Although if the if the state orchestrated this,

1196
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: they also got a cop killed with him. But you know,

1197
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what happened. I don't

1198
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 2: necessarily need to believe that anything sketchy happened. But this guy,

1199
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: like probably a lot of people who don't want him testifying.

1200
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: Also because of some of the shit that he's done.

1201
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: So it's not like inherently weird to be like, well

1202
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: maybe something went on here. I don't know, but yeah

1203
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: that's the story if the other Kevin Smith fuck me,

1204
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: oh wow, yeah that is related quickly huh.

1205
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1206
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: I had to grab Truman at the end. I was

1207
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: like this is bad.

1208
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 2: I needed Yeah, this is like fucked up, and then

1209
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: like what right to throat cutting very quickly.

1210
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: Making the guy in the wheelchair bleed out, and then

1211
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: trying to get a seventeen year old to slit a

1212
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: woman's throat. It's bad.

1213
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1214
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: I really feel for like Juvon who has to be

1215
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 2: thinking this whole.

1216
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: Time, like, and all the fucking money is my question?

1217
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, that's an interesting question. Obviously

1218
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: a lot of it gets bribed out. They do find

1219
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: he has a property listed for like three hundred and

1220
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 2: thirty grand. After he dies. There's a number of other properties,

1221
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: like several million dollars in real estate that get auctioned off.

1222
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 2: But it looks like, based on the cost of maintaining everything,

1223
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 2: was not all that far from what was coming in,

1224
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 2: So there may be a degree that like maybe as

1225
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: he had gotten crazier and more focused on anti COVID shit, right,

1226
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 2: It's possible that, like maybe there was a decline in

1227
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 2: the number of members in the amount of money that

1228
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: they had, and he was losing the ability to like

1229
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: fund what he was doing, right, and so maybe after.

1230
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 3: The big drift, I guess.

1231
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, time for a swan song perhaps.

1232
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, well yeah, that's ruined my day.

1233
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 3: Thanks, yep, yeah, thanks great, have a wonderful weekend. I

1234
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 3: guess have a.

1235
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: Great time everybody. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know, Like a

1236
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: lot of all of this is so downstream from like

1237
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 2: what happened to everyone during COVID, yeah, or a lot

1238
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: of people during COVID, like the the fact that like

1239
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: the lockdowns really supercharged the spread of a lot of

1240
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: propaganda that really damaged a lot of people's like like

1241
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 2: cause you see, like this guy is a significantly different

1242
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: logical actor in a lot of ways after that happens,

1243
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know.

1244
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 5: Uh it's bleak, Yeah, yep.

1245
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: All right, what's the name of your book? One more

1246
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: time for our listeners, Double Axe and Pop Amazing.

1247
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 3: Check it out and get at commercial type dot com

1248
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: and some bookstores.

1249
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 2: Sweet Excellent.

1250
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: Listen to a Wait Days podcast wherever you get your podcast.

1251
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 1: That's by Jake Candrahan and uh touch grass after listening

1252
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:57,919
Speaker 1: to this one.

1253
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go touch so much.

1254
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, peda dog if they want you to, Yeah.

1255
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 2: Peta dog if they want you to touch some grass

1256
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 2: if you think the grass wants you to, and check

1257
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 2: out check out Molly's new podcast.

1258
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 5: You know.

1259
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, when is it? When is the podcast coming.

1260
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 3: Coming out this fall?

1261
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, stay tuned.

1262
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: Super exciting.

1263
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: All right, guys, all right, everybody.

1264
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1265
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1266
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1267
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1268
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1269
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1270
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards