Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer Michael Schreen. Michael, tell us
Speaker 1: about your new album, Drums of Compassion.
Speaker 2: Drums of Compassion is the record that's been an interesting
Speaker 2: journey for me, literally taking me over twenty years to
Speaker 2: get it out. It began with the idea a question
Speaker 2: I asked myself after coming home at two in the
Speaker 2: morning here in Seattle, when I used to go listen
Speaker 2: to all kinds of music and family was asleep and
Speaker 2: I'd come home and want to chill out, but I
Speaker 2: would listen to music like choral music or you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't heavy music. And then it occurred to me,
Speaker 2: what kind of music could I make that I would
Speaker 2: want to listen to personally at two two thirty in
Speaker 2: the morning as a drummer. How would I approach that?
Speaker 2: And that's the question that started on the path.
Speaker 1: We'll continue the story.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I had a setup that I learned from
Speaker 2: percussion master, Japanese percussion master stonemul Yumashta, who I had
Speaker 2: the pleasure of working with in the seventies. Stone was
Speaker 2: somebody that I looked up to as a percussionist and
Speaker 2: as a kind of a force actually the way he
Speaker 2: would approach his career, and he had a setup that
Speaker 2: was like sixteen toms in a semi circle. We did
Speaker 2: a project with him called Go with Al Damiola and
Speaker 2: Klaus Schultz and Pat Thrall and Steve Winwood, and so
Speaker 2: his setup was this beautiful setup where you could you
Speaker 2: could kind of run around the stage and play the drums,
Speaker 2: and I was very influenced by him. It even goes
Speaker 2: further back. So I thought, I want this to be
Speaker 2: a kind of record where drums are going to have
Speaker 2: to be featured, but it's not going to be backbeats
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be like groove heavy. I
Speaker 2: want the drums to speak in a different way, in
Speaker 2: a different language than they usually usually are, at least
Speaker 2: in the States. I called upon a friend of mine,
Speaker 2: a synthesizer sound designer from Seattle named Jeff Grinky, and
Speaker 2: we began the project together. So it was very spacey,
Speaker 2: and I went into a studio we rehearsed and went
Speaker 2: into a studio called Bob Lang which is in northern Settle,
Speaker 2: Richmond Beach. And that's a whole story about that studio
Speaker 2: where he'd bob for years, dug into the side of
Speaker 2: the mountain of a hill, literally and I thought it
Speaker 2: would be great because it had like thirty foot ceilings.
Speaker 2: So we did recording there and it was too much.
Speaker 2: There was too much ambient reverb on the drums. And
Speaker 2: at that point then we went to London Bridge Studios,
Speaker 2: which is a very well known Seattle studio where Pearl
Speaker 2: Jam recorded their first album ten there and tons of
Speaker 2: other records, so that became the drums and the synthesizer tracks.
Speaker 2: At a certain point I kept listening to I thought
Speaker 2: it sounded too new age, and I started adding other
Speaker 2: percussionists as they came into town, like Ayerto Morierra, who
Speaker 2: famous for playing with Chick Corea, and Miles Davis and
Speaker 2: Jack D. Jennette, also Miles Davis zuk Heir who s Tablamster.
Speaker 2: And I started layering these percussionists onto the tracks and
Speaker 2: then just grew it and grew it and grew it,
Speaker 2: and I just lived with it forever. But there was
Speaker 2: a skip forward eighteen twenty years. I kept wondering, why
Speaker 2: am I not putting this sucker out? You know, I
Speaker 2: really love it, but what's going on with me, And
Speaker 2: when I changed insurance companies, they offered me to see
Speaker 2: a psychoanalysis for free for six months, and I said sure,
Speaker 2: and I went and I recorded every session on my phone,
Speaker 2: and then this issue came up, What's going on with
Speaker 2: me with this recording? Why is it that? What is
Speaker 2: it that's happening with myself that I'm not putting it out?
Speaker 2: Is it procrastination? Is it fear of what people will think.
Speaker 2: Let's get to the bottom of it, because I really
Speaker 2: love it, and I just talked it through myself and
Speaker 2: I came up with the I realized. I came to
Speaker 2: the realization that I really love this record, and it's
Speaker 2: almost like the world doesn't really need another record, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's like, who gives a fuck? You know?
Speaker 2: And and I've put other records out in the past.
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of solo work and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and most of it's left of center. Most of the
Speaker 2: stuff my contemporaries don't care for that I do. They're
Speaker 2: kind enough to say they don't like it, but they
Speaker 2: don't say anything. And so all along I'm following my
Speaker 2: own muse. But what I came to this realization is
Speaker 2: I like this record too much. It's okay if I
Speaker 2: don't put it out. I like it and I want
Speaker 2: to keep it that way. I don't want to just
Speaker 2: put it out and nobody gives a shit, or you know,
Speaker 2: people say, oh, Michael, here he goes again. He lost
Speaker 2: his lower chakras, you know. And and then once I
Speaker 2: realized that that was the reason it wasn't being put out, Bob,
Speaker 2: then I felt free to put it out. And I said,
Speaker 2: this is what you gotta do. You put it out,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter what other people think. In fact,
Speaker 2: this is the way you should make music. You should
Speaker 2: make the music that you love and that you dig
Speaker 2: deep enough inside yourself to bring out. And that's what
Speaker 2: you put out. And you don't do it with expectations
Speaker 2: of people loving it or adoring you. And so finally,
Speaker 2: you know, I was tweaking it until the last hour
Speaker 2: of when I needed to let it go for deadline
Speaker 2: for the release. And now it's out and I'm perfectly
Speaker 2: happy with everything about it, from the packaging to the artwork,
Speaker 2: to the musicians, the mixes. And so that's the story
Speaker 2: of Drums and Compassion. Also, I should say that they're
Speaker 2: interesting thing because when I started the record, it was
Speaker 2: a period. I remember that the Dalai Lama was talking
Speaker 2: about the human kind is coming into a period where
Speaker 2: what we need is more compassion, and I thought, well,
Speaker 2: Baba Olatunji, Michael Olatunji, the great African drummer who put
Speaker 2: out in the sixties a record called Drums of Passion,
Speaker 2: and in fact, Santana on their first album, recorded a
Speaker 2: piece of music from that record called Jingo Loba, and
Speaker 2: so I thought I'd play off of that and I'd
Speaker 2: go I'd call it Drums of Compassion, honoring Olatunji and
Speaker 2: also honoring what the Dhalai Lama said. And it turns
Speaker 2: out that I was able to have Olatunji give the
Speaker 2: opening incantation on the recording, which was done in another
Speaker 2: recording session with a group I was involved with, called
Speaker 2: a Praxis Pool, with all the original Santana guys aside
Speaker 2: from Carlos, and they decided not to use this incantation,
Speaker 2: and that's how the record starts out, Drums of Compassion.
Speaker 2: So it's been a long road and it feels really
Speaker 2: good to finally have it out and I can move
Speaker 2: on to other things.
Speaker 1: So for those who haven't heard it yet, how can
Speaker 1: you describe it? And what should they think when they're
Speaker 1: pulling it up online.
Speaker 2: Well, they don't have to think anything better if they don't.
Speaker 2: For me, it's a The desire anyway, was to be
Speaker 2: transportive and that the music really takes you somewhere you
Speaker 2: can get inside it and just let it be. Just
Speaker 2: let it be, you know, just let it watch over you. Also,
Speaker 2: I have a lot of material, but I ended up
Speaker 2: only using like thirty five thirty seven minutes worth of
Speaker 2: music because to me, an album, just because you can
Speaker 2: have seventy five minutes on it doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 2: And that I always thought the listening experiences when we
Speaker 2: came up in the sixties and seventies were just the
Speaker 2: right amount of time because it was A and a
Speaker 2: B side of vinyl, and the maximum recording time you
Speaker 2: should have on each side would be twenty minutes, so
Speaker 2: that the sonically it would sound better because the grooves
Speaker 2: are wider, preferably eighteen minutes aside, so I thought, I
Speaker 2: want to make this. I mean, it's hard enough to
Speaker 2: get anybody to listen to anything anyway, much less an
Speaker 2: album nowadays, and I'm very aware of that, and so
Speaker 2: I thought, make it, you know, make it thirty five
Speaker 2: minutes long, so it doesn't take up so much time,
Speaker 2: but it could still take you on a journey. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not a buffet all you can eat, it's a
Speaker 2: fine meal.
Speaker 1: Okay, you had all these anxieties before you put the
Speaker 1: album out, you came to an inner belief. Now the
Speaker 1: album is out, other people are scrutinizing it or not
Speaker 1: listening at all. So what's that experience been.
Speaker 2: Like, Well, it's been very rewarding people who are saying
Speaker 2: some really beautiful things about it that it seems it's
Speaker 2: paid off that I went to where I went to
Speaker 2: myself to bring this music. Had some you know, kind
Speaker 2: words from people that I really respect, and so that
Speaker 2: feels good. I mean, there was somebody that said something
Speaker 2: online last week about I got this record and it's
Speaker 2: just horrible.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: Okay, come on, come on, you know, so I engaged
Speaker 2: with the guy, not that I care, but I'm curious.
Speaker 2: I said, so, what were you expecting, because obviously you
Speaker 2: were expecting something else. He said, well, yeah, you know
Speaker 2: the stuff you used to do with Carlos, and you
Speaker 2: know Santana for and this that, And I said, of course,
Speaker 2: that's why you didn't like it, because you're expecting me
Speaker 2: to live in the past, and my job is to
Speaker 2: move forward. And I recommended some other records of mine
Speaker 2: that he might like better.
Speaker 1: Okay, you went to for psychoanalysis because you had that
Speaker 1: benefit from insurance. You learned about why you weren't releasing
Speaker 1: the record. What else did you.
Speaker 2: Learn, mean aside from this, mean in the psychoanalysis, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's private, bob, Okay, no, no, no, I it was
Speaker 2: what I found was that I had been to psychoanalysis before,
Speaker 2: but more like couples, a couple of psychoanalysis, and that
Speaker 2: never seemed to work out, you know, and so it
Speaker 2: didn't didn't make me feel positive about you know, you know.
Speaker 2: But anyway, I found this to be a really wonderful
Speaker 2: experience that you couldn't shut me up, you know, and
Speaker 2: I just kept talking and talking that I'd listened during
Speaker 2: the week to the recordings, and I found what I've
Speaker 2: what I learned is that it can be very helpful
Speaker 2: to be engaged in psychoanalysis, if for nothing else, to
Speaker 2: just be talking and have someone to talk to and
Speaker 2: in a safe space and they throw ideas back at you,
Speaker 2: and you so, I mean, I haven't gone back to
Speaker 2: any After that, I felt like, ah, I kind of
Speaker 2: got what I wanted with this record. But I must
Speaker 2: say also that I wasn't living in anxiety about this record.
Speaker 2: It was just like, why the hell am I not
Speaker 2: putting this thing out? You know, I'm making all the
Speaker 2: other kinds of music in this but this one seems
Speaker 2: to be a different issue for me. And so once
Speaker 2: I realized that I loved it so much, I didn't
Speaker 2: want anybody to say anything negative about it. Then it
Speaker 2: was like, who gives a shit, this is what I love.
Speaker 2: Put it out there so you can move on to
Speaker 2: other stuff.
Speaker 1: How'd you end up in Seattle?
Speaker 2: My ex wife is from here. We had our first kid.
Speaker 2: We met in New York City. I lived there through
Speaker 2: the through the eighties. Interesting time to be in New York.
Speaker 2: And then we moved to the Bay Area, where I'm from,
Speaker 2: and we had our first son, Sam, and thought that
Speaker 2: she thought to move up to the Northwest would be
Speaker 2: a good place to start raising a family.
Speaker 1: So you grew up in the Bay Area. What was
Speaker 1: it like in Seattle? What's it like now?
Speaker 2: Well, Seattle's a wonderful city. The music scene I found
Speaker 2: because I was very would very much go out at
Speaker 2: night and look at stuff, look at bands, and I'm
Speaker 2: I'm also very curious about more avant garde stuff, whether
Speaker 2: it's dance or theater or and so I would go
Speaker 2: and explore that sort of thing. In Seattle. I've always
Speaker 2: been attracted to people like, you know, different, not mainstream artists,
Speaker 2: so so it was great, you know. I mean, it
Speaker 2: never felt quite like home to me. And I think
Speaker 2: that I realized that while driving through the Bay Area
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. It's the topography. It's actually
Speaker 2: the trees and the and the hills and the you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's eucalyptus trees and oak trees, where up here
Speaker 2: it's pine trees. And it's this, that and the other.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful place. I'm considering, you know, moving somewhere else,
Speaker 2: but I don't know where in the hell they go anymore.
Speaker 2: With the way everything is going, it might be better
Speaker 2: just to stay put.
Speaker 1: You talk about your flues, kid, how many kids do
Speaker 1: you have?
Speaker 2: I have two?
Speaker 1: What are they up to?
Speaker 2: Well? My oldest is graduate of Berkeley School of music
Speaker 2: and is in La producing and writing pop material. In fact,
Speaker 2: he's the girl that just won I guess it's American Idol.
Speaker 2: I think it's American Idol or the Voice. He wrote
Speaker 2: that and they put that as a single, so you
Speaker 2: know he's into that scene and starting to do well.
Speaker 2: My youngest son is a real estate agent here in Seattle.
Speaker 1: And you talk about getting divorced. You have a relationship.
Speaker 2: Now, yes, I do, happily married for fifteen years.
Speaker 1: So how'd you meet her?
Speaker 2: I met her at a friend of mine ran a
Speaker 2: biotech company here in Seattle, and she was his executive assistant.
Speaker 2: And I told I saw her at an event that
Speaker 2: I was invited to, like a charity event where one
Speaker 2: of the one of the founders of the Microsoft. You know,
Speaker 2: it's all a lot of wealthy people here because of
Speaker 2: Microsoft and Amazon and everything else, and so one of
Speaker 2: the first early founders had a place where it's kind
Speaker 2: of like jay Leno, you know, like a ton of
Speaker 2: cars that nobody else would have, and they held this
Speaker 2: event there and the woman that was the greeter there
Speaker 2: I was very much attracted to. And so I found
Speaker 2: out that this was his personal assistant and we had
Speaker 2: met before, but I asked him if he might if
Speaker 2: I asked her out. So I did, and we've been
Speaker 2: together ever since. Funny thing about that night, though, I
Speaker 2: told her about ten years ago, I'll never forget this
Speaker 2: outfit that you were wearing. I described the outfit and
Speaker 2: it wasn't until like six years ago. She said, I
Speaker 2: gotta tell you, I never had an outfit like, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: do maybe I have the wrong woman? No? But yeah,
Speaker 2: So that's that's how we met. Pamela. I know that
Speaker 2: a friend of mine is friend of your wife of
Speaker 2: Dorian Ringer Ross.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely from BMI in the soundtrack world.
Speaker 2: I sent this record to her and she is head
Speaker 2: over heels about it. She just loves it, like like crazy.
Speaker 2: She said some of the strongest things than anybody has
Speaker 2: said yet. So that's a good sign.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. You mentioned in all Microsoft, Amazon people who made
Speaker 1: a lot of money there. To what degree did you
Speaker 1: interact with those people? Were there any opportunities there?
Speaker 2: No opportunities for me there. I mean I did have
Speaker 2: interaction with Paul Allen, who I found to be really enjoyable.
Speaker 2: I mean it's amazing. I mean really, it's like Okay,
Speaker 2: you go to his house and you can do some recording.
Speaker 2: The recording studio is an exact replica of Peter Gabriel's
Speaker 2: studio in Bath, England. And then and then he replicated
Speaker 2: that in la and on two or three of his
Speaker 2: yachts as well. You know, it's like before it was
Speaker 2: before anybody did this kind of thing. He had his
Speaker 2: whole music collection digitized and you know, you could just
Speaker 2: push a button and the music came up. Now we
Speaker 2: all do that, but at that time, I, you know,
Speaker 2: I really respected what he did is starting the museum here,
Speaker 2: which is supposed to be a Jimi Hendrix museum. But no,
Speaker 2: I haven't had opportunity to get rich. Even though there's
Speaker 2: rich people. It's a it's a different thing. I'm not
Speaker 2: a you know, there's ways that I thought I could
Speaker 2: have interacted with them in terms of Amazon even or
Speaker 2: or companies that like provide music, because I really love
Speaker 2: what music does in different environments. I'm a big fan
Speaker 2: of you know, it's like I don't listen to the
Speaker 2: blues for years, and then you walk into a tavern
Speaker 2: or something and the blues is playing and you go, wow,
Speaker 2: nothing nothing like the blues man. I mean in the
Speaker 2: right place, in the right you know. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you're like that when you listen, but so much
Speaker 2: has to do with your mood, the time of day,
Speaker 2: and the and where you are specifically, you know, physically.
Speaker 2: And I like to make playlists. I love to make
Speaker 2: playlists for different you know. I'll be in a restaurant
Speaker 2: and I think this is a really great restaurant, really cool,
Speaker 2: really hip, really kind of international, but the music sucks,
Speaker 2: and so I'll go home and I'll make a playlist
Speaker 2: for them that I think this would really make your
Speaker 2: place much better, much much like I found out later,
Speaker 2: like Riuichi Sakamoto did. I don't know if you heard
Speaker 2: about this. Where the great you know, the great piano
Speaker 2: player composer riu Chi Sakamoto frequented a sushi bar in
Speaker 2: New York City that he absolutely adored, the food, the chef,
Speaker 2: And finally, one day he went to the owner chef
Speaker 2: and he said, whatever his name, son, I really think
Speaker 2: you're a genius with the food. I come here all
Speaker 2: the time because I appreciate you and the place, But
Speaker 2: I would you mind if I make a playlist for here?
Speaker 2: Because I don't like the music that you play. And
Speaker 2: it's a great story. And they ended up writing an
Speaker 2: article about it in the New York Times, and then
Speaker 2: the playlist was published on Spotify, and I thought, this
Speaker 2: is so great. I completely get this. You know, I
Speaker 2: love the place, but I can't stand the music. So
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of creating playlists for different sort
Speaker 2: of vibes. And I do it for friends if they're
Speaker 2: getting married or if they're doing this and that, just
Speaker 2: because I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: So did you give the restaurant your playlist?
Speaker 2: I did, And now I don't know if they've played
Speaker 2: it or not. I haven't heard like, oh wow, it
Speaker 2: really changes the vibe, man, thank you so much or
Speaker 2: anything like that. But it was a good excuse to
Speaker 2: put together like what I thought was like a sophisticated
Speaker 2: international cool vibe and much like it used to be
Speaker 2: in the was the eighties, when the when the Buddha
Speaker 2: Bar was happening. I think it started in Paris, and
Speaker 2: I always liked their playlist and somebody took me in
Speaker 2: there one night when I was in Paris and they
Speaker 2: were playing music of mine, and I thought, this is
Speaker 2: the fucking coolest thing. I mean, I'm in the Buddha
Speaker 2: Bar and my album transfer Station Blue with Klaus Schultz
Speaker 2: and my brother Kevin was playing, and I thought, this
Speaker 2: is this is what I like. I mean, I see
Speaker 2: my music going in different places than most people. I mean,
Speaker 2: what I do now is I look at websites like
Speaker 2: Sedition Arts, and I look at the graphic artists from
Speaker 2: around the world, Berlin and Japan, and they make the
Speaker 2: most beautiful you know, digital art, moving art, and I'll
Speaker 2: take down their music and I'll put my music in there,
Speaker 2: various pieces and see what works, and then if it
Speaker 2: works out, con attack the artist and I'll say, let's collaborate,
Speaker 2: let's do you know. I mean, I would like to
Speaker 2: see music more look for more interesting ways than than
Speaker 2: you know, like like more environ you know, complete environments,
Speaker 2: and and so I'm excited about I'm excited about the
Speaker 2: future in that way.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. How'd you become a drummer?
Speaker 2: I was, I had just been kicked out of a
Speaker 2: Catholic school in seventh grade. Why oh, some silly thing
Speaker 2: where you know, have a bunch of pens in your pocket,
Speaker 2: and one of them happened to be the kind of
Speaker 2: smoke bomb that you make from a from a ballpoint
Speaker 2: pen where you had a h what is it, a
Speaker 2: bobby pin? Bobby pin and a and a match, a
Speaker 2: wooden match, and so when you pull the bobby pin,
Speaker 2: it smells like rotten eggs and and that accidentally went off.
Speaker 2: And it was so funny because it was taught by sisters.
Speaker 2: And the sister said, oh, somebody must be having some
Speaker 2: problems in the neighborhood, and let's let's stop and say
Speaker 2: a prayer and and all that. So everything was fine
Speaker 2: until some kids, you know, actually went and told on me,
Speaker 2: you know, like really so uh, and it was a
Speaker 2: big deal. My father had come down and my father
Speaker 2: was like, come on really, And then my father got
Speaker 2: an argument with the main nun and and and I
Speaker 2: got kicked out, so that there went my There went
Speaker 2: my My career is being a priest, which I was
Speaker 2: considering doing. So I went to this public school and
Speaker 2: I must have been banging on the desk or trying
Speaker 2: to be funny. I got kicked out of the class,
Speaker 2: and I told me to go to the principal's office.
Speaker 2: So I went to the principal's office and I got scolded,
Speaker 2: And on the way back to the class, I passed
Speaker 2: a room that was the band room, and the whole
Speaker 2: percussion section was right there at the door, and the
Speaker 2: door was open, and it just stopped me in my
Speaker 2: tracks enough so that I got in trouble for being
Speaker 2: taking so long to get back to the other class.
Speaker 2: But that day I went and bought drumsticks and got
Speaker 2: three rug samples and started playing the drums.
Speaker 1: Now what year were we in and what was happening
Speaker 1: in music? Did the Beatles hit yet?
Speaker 2: The Beatles had not hit yet. It was just before
Speaker 2: so I'm not so with the years. But the Beatles
Speaker 2: had not hit. But I started taking drum lessons. I
Speaker 2: went to high school. I was playing in bands, and
Speaker 2: then in high school the Beatles because I was already
Speaker 2: playing pretty well and the beat the Beatles hit, and
Speaker 2: we used to my brother and I used to listen
Speaker 2: every day. We listened to the Beatles, and we listened
Speaker 2: to you know stereo where it's just the vocals and
Speaker 2: then the other side where it's just the band. That's
Speaker 2: so cool. That was like that was like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel the same way now. We were just talking
Speaker 2: about that here where now you can isolate tracks of
Speaker 2: of you know, recordings, and I still feel like that
Speaker 2: is revelatory, you know, And so that was very exciting.
Speaker 2: So I was into the Beatles. I was into It
Speaker 2: was also time of Jefferson airplaying Grateful Dead. So it
Speaker 2: was this time when the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia
Speaker 2: they were happening in Palo Alto and I lived in
Speaker 2: Redwood City, which is a suburb of San Francisco in
Speaker 2: between San Francisco and San Jose, and so they put
Speaker 2: me back in a Catholic high school, all boys high school,
Speaker 2: and I would take the train from Redwood City to
Speaker 2: Mountain View in order to make band every day. And
Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved being on the train. But
Speaker 2: stuff started to happen and it was like Jefferson air Plane.
Speaker 2: I remember going to a concert in Redwood City in
Speaker 2: Palo Alto, I mean, and it was Jefferson air Plane
Speaker 2: and it was Santana before they were they had a record,
Speaker 2: and I thought, I saw Jack Cassidy and Orma and
Speaker 2: I was looking at Jack Cassidy with those shades and
Speaker 2: you know his hair, and I thought, man, how do
Speaker 2: you get to be that cool? How does one you know,
Speaker 2: how would I go about it? And I remember seeing
Speaker 2: Santana as well, and and then I was into I
Speaker 2: got into rock music, but it was more like funk,
Speaker 2: and then I started getting into jazz. But I learned
Speaker 2: from a couple of friends in high school that all
Speaker 2: that San Francisco music was coming from folk music. It
Speaker 2: was just electrified folk music. Basically. Jerry Garcia, you know,
Speaker 2: was a banjo picker and Yorma was you know, acoustic picker,
Speaker 2: and they were you know. I mean that's the time
Speaker 2: when say, Richie Haven's album was out, you know, and
Speaker 2: it was that vibe, that was a strong vibe. So
Speaker 2: the whole scene that San Francisco sing was a very
Speaker 2: powerful poll for a young any young person, much less
Speaker 2: than aspiring musician, which I had become at that point.
Speaker 2: And I just kept playing with as many people as
Speaker 2: I could. But I never owned my own drums until
Speaker 2: after high school, and so I would always have to
Speaker 2: borrow drums for any gigs or anything like that. I
Speaker 2: was into it, you know. Then I went to junior
Speaker 2: college in sam Matteo, and there was a guy named
Speaker 2: Dick Crest who allowed me to be in the big band.
Speaker 2: And I've been into gene Krupa and that kind of
Speaker 2: stuff too, and he put me set me up. He
Speaker 2: said it was one of those school situations where professionals
Speaker 2: could join the big band, they could audition. They were
Speaker 2: the guys that were playing on Broadway in San Francisco
Speaker 2: could come down an audition and be in this school band.
Speaker 2: And for some reason he chose me and just said
Speaker 2: there's something about you that I like. And so I
Speaker 2: learned how to play in a big band. And at
Speaker 2: that period, that's when John Coltrane's happening, Miles Davis, and
Speaker 2: I learned that where the activity was, the excitement was
Speaker 2: in these small groups, not the big bands. I mean,
Speaker 2: I would go see Buddy Rich and I would go
Speaker 2: and I loved all that stuff. I would go see
Speaker 2: Count Basie and I loved it. But the exciting thing
Speaker 2: was happening with drummers like Tony Williams and Jack d
Speaker 2: Jeannette and Elvin Jones. And so then I pursued that
Speaker 2: and R and B. So I always played in R
Speaker 2: and B bands, and the only rock bands I played
Speaker 2: in were like high school bands. You know, you'd play
Speaker 2: a school dance or something. But I was serious about
Speaker 2: R and B. Every time James Brown came out with
Speaker 2: a record, I'd be down at the club and I
Speaker 2: don't know why they'd let me in, but I'd go
Speaker 2: down there and play the latest James Ground Brown groove.
Speaker 2: And so that's what I was aspiring to be, is
Speaker 2: really like a more like a jazz drummer. To tell
Speaker 2: you the truth.
Speaker 1: Let's go back. Your parents did what for a living.
Speaker 2: My mother was a nurse. She got up. I remember
Speaker 2: when I was in high school, we got up very
Speaker 2: early because she got up to do the morning shift
Speaker 2: and she would take me, while still dark outside to
Speaker 2: the train station to go to high school. So my
Speaker 2: mother was a registered nurse. My father worked at the
Speaker 2: Salmonteo County Planning Commission, and he was a big fan
Speaker 2: of jazz music. My father was so that there was
Speaker 2: a lot of jazz in the house, and there was
Speaker 2: a lot of Broadway music. My mother was into the
Speaker 2: Broadway and I mean I was totally into all that
Speaker 2: stuff too. I mean, you know, we got a problem.
Speaker 2: We got a problem right here in River City.
Speaker 1: Oh man, my mother played all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, uh, I used to have that stuff down
Speaker 2: like a rapper, you know. It's like and it starts
Speaker 2: with a piano of the room done in room pool
Speaker 2: and the rhymes with pool. That's right, we have Now
Speaker 2: when I see that stuff, I see how brilliant it was.
Speaker 2: West Side Story that was another one. I mean I
Speaker 2: knew every word and note of that record before I
Speaker 2: saw the movie. When we went drove up to San Francisco.
Speaker 2: It was a big deal to see that movie and
Speaker 2: the big screen because we all knew the music and
Speaker 2: everything already, and that was that was very influential stuff
Speaker 2: to me as well.
Speaker 1: So you talk about this brother as your brother, older, younger,
Speaker 1: and is he your only sibling.
Speaker 2: I have an older brother and I have a younger brother.
Speaker 2: The brother I was sitting around with listening to the
Speaker 2: Beatles was my younger brother, Kevin. My older brother Rich
Speaker 2: was serious into music as well, but he had gone
Speaker 2: away during high school to a seminary because he was
Speaker 2: going to be a priest and that didn't work out
Speaker 2: in the end. But everybody was really into music. Everybody's
Speaker 2: still into music.
Speaker 1: So, Okay, you said you took lessons, but you didn't
Speaker 1: own drums till you graduate from high school. Tell me
Speaker 1: about the lessons and then how you played in bands
Speaker 1: into what degree you played in bands in high school?
Speaker 2: Yes, I would, I would. My father would drive me
Speaker 2: to drum lessons. I had some really great teachers, but
Speaker 2: we couldn't afford a drum set. But I bought my
Speaker 2: first snare drum. I did my bike bicycle route delivering
Speaker 2: papers and I saved up and I bought a catalog
Speaker 2: Japanese catalog snare drum, and I bought another one, so
Speaker 2: now I had a snare and a tom tom. But
Speaker 2: I would always borrow drums. There was a kid around
Speaker 2: the corner who had one. There was another guy whose
Speaker 2: father owned owned a deli in Redwad City and they
Speaker 2: lived in Woodside, which is you know, a wealthy area,
Speaker 2: and he had a drum kit that he didn't play
Speaker 2: so much, so he would let me use that. My
Speaker 2: first drums that I bought was on the road after
Speaker 2: high school, and I bought him saving up well on
Speaker 2: the road, and those were the drums I played at Woodstock.
Speaker 1: Well, let's go a little bit slower. So when you
Speaker 1: were in high school, did you play in bands at
Speaker 1: SA Cops, bar Mitzvah's other events or not?
Speaker 2: Absolutely a lot.
Speaker 1: So then when you said you didn't get your first
Speaker 1: drums till you went on the road. How'd you get
Speaker 1: the gig to go on the road without the drums.
Speaker 2: Well, I borrowed drums for that. Some guy put a
Speaker 2: band together of schoolmates. He was older than us. I mean,
Speaker 2: he said, I'm booking. You know. We were a cover band.
Speaker 2: We took a train to Elko, Nevada, and from there
Speaker 2: we got in a car. We went to you know,
Speaker 2: played around Nevada and North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho. And
Speaker 2: during that period is so I had borrowed drums. But
Speaker 2: during that period I saved up money like per diem
Speaker 2: money and stuff like that, and I bought my first
Speaker 2: drum kit somewhere there in like North Dakota. And I
Speaker 2: knew all along what I wanted to get because I
Speaker 2: used to be under the covers with the Ludwig catalog
Speaker 2: looking at drums. I knew how much a drum key costs,
Speaker 2: and I knew this, and so I knew what I wanted.
Speaker 2: So I was just fortunate, I guess to either they
Speaker 2: had drums or I borrowed drums during high school to
Speaker 2: play these gigs. Some of the guys that I played
Speaker 2: with were They lived in you know, Atherton Menlo Park,
Speaker 2: so they had money. They probably had extra drums there too.
Speaker 2: You know. My father was very much in my corner
Speaker 2: for and supportive of me playing drums, and so I'll
Speaker 2: always be grateful for that. And he loved music, and
Speaker 2: he loved musicians, and he loved black musicians, you know,
Speaker 2: and we lived in the suburbs, but he was just
Speaker 2: like you know, I mean, there was one time when
Speaker 2: my brother and I went to Stanford University to see
Speaker 2: John Coltrane, and I didn't have tickets, and I'm not
Speaker 2: sure how it happened, but I ended up coming through
Speaker 2: the ceiling in the men's bathroom, which turned out to
Speaker 2: be the dressing room where Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison
Speaker 2: and McCoy tyner were and they're like, who the hell
Speaker 2: is this? And that's the first time I met Elvin Jones.
Speaker 2: And he invited us up to San Francisco where they
Speaker 2: were playing at the what's it called Jazz Workshop Broadway
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and my father drove us up and
Speaker 2: of course we didn't realize that they wouldn't let us
Speaker 2: in because we weren't twenty one. So we stood outside
Speaker 2: like little puppies watching as what my father got all
Speaker 2: night carrying on with Elvin and Jimmy Garrison having the
Speaker 2: time of his life, you know, watching Coltrane.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You're in junior high school. You're
Speaker 1: in the big band. What's the next step for you?
Speaker 2: No, in big band, that's like junior college. So during
Speaker 2: that period, I came to a big decision because I
Speaker 2: wasn't sure what I was going to do. I was
Speaker 2: very interested. I've always been an avid reader. I still
Speaker 2: read a lot, and I was interested in writing. And
Speaker 2: there was a class where there was an assignment that
Speaker 2: I was finishing up. It was a writing class, a
Speaker 2: literature class, and I told the teacher I'm going to
Speaker 2: be one day late with this, but it's going to
Speaker 2: be really good. And he said, if you're late, I'm
Speaker 2: going to fail you. I said, you know it'll be
Speaker 2: worth it. And so it wasn't. Well. He gave me
Speaker 2: an f. I said, you know, I'm the one in
Speaker 2: this class that cares more than any other kid in
Speaker 2: here about what you're talking about or teaching, and so
Speaker 2: you know you're making a choice like this. So it
Speaker 2: pissed me off enough that I quit everything in college
Speaker 2: except for big band. And that was a period of
Speaker 2: time when it was like hippie time and it was
Speaker 2: us in them and straight people and you know, other people.
Speaker 2: And so I decided that if I'm going to do this,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do I'm gonna take it, approach it like
Speaker 2: a job. So my drums were set up in the
Speaker 2: living room in our little suburban house.
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you'd already gone on that road gig.
Speaker 2: That's right, because now I was after high school. I
Speaker 2: was in junior college and College of San Matteo, and
Speaker 2: so my parents went to work, and at eight am,
Speaker 2: i'd be there at the drums, like I said, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna work at like eight to five, you know.
Speaker 2: And so I practice and i'd have a real to
Speaker 2: reel tape recorder there where i'd slow things down to
Speaker 2: three and a half, three and a third, thirty three
Speaker 2: and a third whatever it was, and learned things. And
Speaker 2: I was taking lessons, and then at three o'clock i'd
Speaker 2: go to big band, and then at night i'd go
Speaker 2: play clubs around the Palo Alto area, and that's what
Speaker 2: I did for a good solid couple of years, and
Speaker 2: I really progressed because I was practicing all day long.
Speaker 1: Okay, in the next step.
Speaker 2: The next step was apparently some of the guys from
Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane heard about me, or somebody told me told
Speaker 2: them about me. At this point, I was going to
Speaker 2: the film more. You know, that was the mecca. I mean,
Speaker 2: I would I've seen groups like the Yardbirds with Jeff
Speaker 2: Beck and Jimmy Page. You see Cream there, very much
Speaker 2: like Charles Lloyd with Jack Dee Jeannette with the Blues guys.
Speaker 2: And there was a thing that happened where you probably
Speaker 2: are familiar with this, but with Al Cooper and Steven
Speaker 2: Stills and Michael Bloomfield. All Right, So I called all
Speaker 2: my friends for some reason, my musician friends, and said,
Speaker 2: let's go see if we can sit in and and
Speaker 2: so they're like, yeah, right. And then there's one guy
Speaker 2: that said, man, that sounds like fun. Hold on one second.
Speaker 2: I was still living at home. He was living with
Speaker 2: a girl already. He came back after talking to his
Speaker 2: girlfriend and said, uh, I think I'm just going to
Speaker 2: stay in And I think that that night when he
Speaker 2: said that was the reason I didn't get married till
Speaker 2: I was in my thirties. So I borrowed my father's
Speaker 2: car and I said, damn it, at least I can
Speaker 2: go and say that I tried. I'm going to go
Speaker 2: and just say, you know, what the hell I mean.
Speaker 2: You know, they're right, probably nothing's gonna happen, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to go. So I drove up to the city,
Speaker 2: went to Fillmore West, walked in in Census, going past
Speaker 2: the apples, grabbed an apple before I could get my
Speaker 2: fear go up. I walked straight up to the stage
Speaker 2: to Michael Bloomfield looked up and I pulled down on
Speaker 2: his pants and I said, hey, man, I'm a drummer.
Speaker 2: You think I could sit in and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: my job's done. At least I tried. I'm waiting for
Speaker 2: him to, you know, laugh at me or whatever. Instead
Speaker 2: he leans down and said, man, the drummer is a
Speaker 2: really nice guy. Let me go ask him. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, you know this I didn't expect. Well. I
Speaker 2: ended up sitting in that night. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: so traumatic, I don't even remember it. But afterwards I
Speaker 2: was backstage, which is oh man, I'm backstage here, you know,
Speaker 2: with all these guys, and the bass player in Santana
Speaker 2: and the manager in Santana at that time came up
Speaker 2: to me and said, we heard you play, and we're
Speaker 2: thinking about getting another drummer, you know, And so they
Speaker 2: took my number, and I didn't hear from them. So
Speaker 2: what happened was somehow Jeff's an airplane heard about me
Speaker 2: and they invited me. Yorma and Jack, those were my guys,
Speaker 2: and they invited me to go to La They were
Speaker 2: recording Bathing at Baxter's that record and the first airplane
Speaker 2: ride I ever took was with those two guys PSA
Speaker 2: and where the stewardesses were really all cute and with
Speaker 2: short pink skirts, and it was special to fly back then.
Speaker 2: And Buddy Miles, I remember, was on that flight as well.
Speaker 2: And I stayed with Yorma. What was that hotel so
Speaker 2: where everybody stayed, you know, No, the other one.
Speaker 1: Well, later it was the Sunset Marquis, But before that
Speaker 1: it was like all those places in Hollywood, like in
Speaker 1: Hollywood and Highland between there and Libria.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's on the tip of my tongue. It wasn't
Speaker 2: Sunset Marquee yet but it wasn't Riot House at any rate.
Speaker 2: Here I am, I'm a kid. I'm down there with
Speaker 2: Yourma and Jack. And like Jim Morrison comes by the hotel.
Speaker 1: You know, Oh you're talking about shit on Santa Monica Boulevard, the.
Speaker 2: Tropicana Tropicana, that's right, right, So I feel like a
Speaker 2: like Forrest Gump, you know. And and then Eric Clapton
Speaker 2: comes by with a cassette of a group he's really
Speaker 2: excited about, really kind of raving about, and they were
Speaker 2: called the Band. And then I go to the studio
Speaker 2: and then David Crosby comes in and he presents the
Speaker 2: band with a tune called Triad, which the Birds didn't
Speaker 2: want to do because they thought it was too racy.
Speaker 2: And so David comes in teaches them the song and
Speaker 2: they put it down a record. And you know, that
Speaker 2: was like my weekend in La. It's like if I
Speaker 2: went back home, nobody would believe me, you know, And
Speaker 2: so I would go over to the Jeffson Airplanes, their
Speaker 2: mansion on Fulton St.
Speaker 1: Wa Wait for you, did you play when you were
Speaker 1: down there that weekend?
Speaker 2: No? I did not. They just brought me along to
Speaker 2: observe because they still had their drummer. I think it
Speaker 2: was Spencer Dryden, and so I'm not sure what the
Speaker 2: what the politics were, but I would go over to
Speaker 2: their mansion, you know, I would hang out and I
Speaker 2: would play. We'd jam over there. Garcia would be there.
Speaker 2: I mean, Ken Kesey would be there. Jeez. There were
Speaker 2: a night at Orma's house where it's just like unbelievable
Speaker 2: stuff for a kid that was like seventeen or something,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like and somehow it didn't work out
Speaker 2: with them. And so I'm back at my parents' house
Speaker 2: and I go sit in up there at the Fillmore
Speaker 2: and I don't hear from them, but as one does
Speaker 2: when you're a musician, you're always looking for free studio time.
Speaker 2: And I went to this studio in San Matteo, the
Speaker 2: same city that I went to college and where I
Speaker 2: used to go there all the time, try to get
Speaker 2: studio time. And I walk in. As I'm walking in,
Speaker 2: literally the drummer in Santana. We passed each other at
Speaker 2: the doorway. I go inside and Santana is there recording
Speaker 2: their first album for Columbia. They had been to La
Speaker 2: and it didn't They didn't like the vibe, and so
Speaker 2: they just had a falling out with their drummer, and
Speaker 2: a couple of guys remembered me from that night at
Speaker 2: the Filmore, and then they asked me if I wanted
Speaker 2: to play, If you want a jam, you know and lead.
Speaker 2: We played for a long time, and after that they
Speaker 2: took me in a room, I mean it was Carlos
Speaker 2: and Greg Rawley, I think Carabello, and they asked me
Speaker 2: if I wanted to join the band, and I said,
Speaker 2: you know, let me checked my schedule. So they followed
Speaker 2: me home, literally to my parents' house. I go in
Speaker 2: and pack a few things. I wake up my folks
Speaker 2: and say, okay, this is where I get off. I'll
Speaker 2: be up in the city and I'll be in touch.
Speaker 2: And I drove up to the Mission District with these
Speaker 2: guys and took my place on the Where was I
Speaker 2: on the couch? Yeah, on the couch, And now I
Speaker 2: was in the band.
Speaker 1: Okay, now you're.
Speaker 2: In the Yeah. So all of a sudden, all these
Speaker 2: things that I had worked so hard for and saved
Speaker 2: up for, like like a union card. You know, it
Speaker 2: took a while to get. They already had a manager,
Speaker 2: they already had a record deal. They had an office,
Speaker 2: they had a rehearsal place, and they they just plugged
Speaker 2: me in and and they rehearsed their ass off. You know,
Speaker 2: I think that two bands worked as hard as we
Speaker 2: did at rehearsals like Sighting the Family Stone and Santana.
Speaker 2: We were it was like a job. We rehearsed all
Speaker 2: day long, every day. And then after rehearsal, we'd go
Speaker 2: to the film wore we could get in for free
Speaker 2: and we'd go check the groups out, and you know,
Speaker 2: it was like quite a life. But we were working hard.
Speaker 2: And I soon realized, I said this in my speech
Speaker 2: at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, that this
Speaker 2: was no hippie love thing. This was like a street
Speaker 2: gang and their weapon was music. And it was really
Speaker 2: like that. It was like they're serious, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: they'd make fun of you if you weren't doing it right.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like your mama that type of thing,
Speaker 2: you know, and so you had to get thick skinned,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's it was. It was so much
Speaker 2: better than being in Jefferson Airplane. It was just meant
Speaker 2: to be Jefferson Airplane. Like I listened to every once
Speaker 2: in a while not really, but like David Crosby's first album,
Speaker 2: which I played on and I listened to it, and
Speaker 2: it's that music. It's hard for me to play, you know,
Speaker 2: It's like I don't even know how it can sound
Speaker 2: good kind of. So the Santana thing was perfect because
Speaker 2: it was fiery and I was not at all a
Speaker 2: Latin drummer, not whatsoever. But I approached everything like a
Speaker 2: jazz drummer and it fit and it was just such
Speaker 2: a natural place for me to be musically, and then
Speaker 2: be friends with Yorman and Jack from Jeffson Airplane.
Speaker 1: Okay, the record, the album doesn't come out until actually
Speaker 1: just afterwards, talk like days. What was it like recording
Speaker 1: that album and to what degree could the band work
Speaker 1: out to support themselves on what we live it on.
Speaker 2: The band was quite popular in the Bay Area. I
Speaker 2: mean I had seen the band twice before I even
Speaker 2: went up to the film More. I saw them at
Speaker 2: a church days and I saw them at a high school,
Speaker 2: and I was a fan of the band. He even
Speaker 2: commented to my brother, this, that's that's a band I'd
Speaker 2: love to play with. So, like I said, you know,
Speaker 2: they were gigging a lot. They took time out to
Speaker 2: do the record. The record was intense because it was
Speaker 2: all live. It was all live. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: we do a better take, we do this, okay. The
Speaker 2: guitars could punch in, keyboards could punch in, drums couldn't
Speaker 2: punch in, and so, and the demand of the intensity
Speaker 2: was great. You know. It wasn't like mister nice guy's stuff.
Speaker 2: It was like, motherfucker, come on, you know. And so,
Speaker 2: but I loved it. I just it was just perfect
Speaker 2: place for me to be. And then the record was
Speaker 2: done and we beg We'd be gigging all over the
Speaker 2: place in the Bay Area and some places down the coast.
Speaker 2: And Bill Graham was a big fan of the band,
Speaker 2: and he he told us about a big festival that's
Speaker 2: coming up. He said, you're going to play this festival
Speaker 2: and your lives are going to change after it. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going
Speaker 2: to be like anything that you ever experienced, and you
Speaker 2: don't you want to keep yourself in check. And so
Speaker 2: he prepared us for this festival by sending us out
Speaker 2: and doing festivals like the Texas Pop Festival, Atlanta Pop Festival,
Speaker 2: Miami Big festivals. You know, of course there were San
Speaker 2: Francisco bands playing, but other bands as well, and it
Speaker 2: sort of got us playing in front of larger audiences
Speaker 2: than say Fillmore's or auditoriums and things like that. And
Speaker 2: then you know, of course the festival that he was
Speaker 2: talking about was Woodstock, and Michael Lang and John Roberts
Speaker 2: and the folks that put it together had bitten something off,
Speaker 2: but they realized that it's a little more they can
Speaker 2: chew that they you know, it got big and they
Speaker 2: asked Bill Graham, which probably really hurt them because Bill
Speaker 2: Graham was already like the man to them, right. And
Speaker 2: Bill said, yes, they do it if he could pick
Speaker 2: a band to play at the show. And so he
Speaker 2: gave them like three or four options. I forget, I
Speaker 2: don't know who the others were. And Michael Lang and
Speaker 2: those guys decided they listened to Santana and they said Santana.
Speaker 2: So that's how we got on that show.
Speaker 1: Okay, the movie doesn't come out until April nineteen seventy,
Speaker 1: so prior to that, it's all press. What was it like?
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all seen the movie, but your experience,
Speaker 1: what was it like playing Woodstock?
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I mean we took a break
Speaker 2: from the summer of touring prior to Woodstock. We stayed
Speaker 2: in a house in Woodstock. We rented a house and
Speaker 2: we set up to play in the living room. So
Speaker 2: because we were always playing, and then we started hearing
Speaker 2: about the traffic problems. We started hearing about what they're
Speaker 2: shutting down the through ways that they called it the
Speaker 2: through way out in California, it's the freeway out there
Speaker 2: was the through way, so and that was like, whoa,
Speaker 2: you know, we can't drive there. We're gonna have to
Speaker 2: go to the holiday in where they have helicopters and
Speaker 2: we're going to have to go in that way. So
Speaker 2: we flew in on the helicopter, I think with the
Speaker 2: Dead I know, Jerry Garcia was there, Janie, and that's
Speaker 2: when we realized, you know, it's like, holy shit, I mean,
Speaker 2: look at this amount of people. This is like you
Speaker 2: never nothing you'd ever experienced before, much less that you're
Speaker 2: going to play in front of them. So so that
Speaker 2: was really something. But by the time we got to
Speaker 2: play there, By the time we got on stage, and
Speaker 2: one of the things that I realized in respect Bob
Speaker 2: is that as a band. We never thought of ourselves
Speaker 2: as quote unquote entertainers. We were like serious musicians band.
Speaker 2: We played to inspire each other, and so we were
Speaker 2: always kind of close, I mean physically, so that we
Speaker 2: could hear each other and that we could like look
Speaker 2: each other in the eyes. And it was a huge stage,
Speaker 2: and the other stages that we had played on that
Speaker 2: summer were huge too, but we always work close to
Speaker 2: each other physically, and it was the same thing at Woodstock.
Speaker 2: So the only frightening thing about Woodstock was I remember
Speaker 2: my thinking was, this is like being at the ocean
Speaker 2: and all you can see is water until you see
Speaker 2: the horizon, and it was it was like being at
Speaker 2: the ocean, except it was people. We were very high
Speaker 2: up as well, and so there it was quite a
Speaker 2: bit distance. And so in later years I thought, after
Speaker 2: being in Santana and stuff, I thought, it's more difficult
Speaker 2: to play in a smaller club than a huge place
Speaker 2: because you can see the people you know. And we
Speaker 2: had the benefit of us being a band that played
Speaker 2: two and four each other, and so so it was
Speaker 2: very intense. And the other thing is that I keep
Speaker 2: forgetting is that nobody had heard any of our music.
Speaker 2: Everybody else had an album out, nobody had heard any
Speaker 2: of our music. But by the time we were done,
Speaker 2: they loved us. And I think I attribute that to
Speaker 2: it was we were so tribal and they were tribal.
Speaker 2: It it just clicked. You know. The band was one
Speaker 2: big rhythm section and oftentimes not with little funky intimate
Speaker 2: parts like James Brown or something, you know, with this
Speaker 2: kind of guitar or this like every you know, the
Speaker 2: bandwidth was really wide and it was all playing the
Speaker 2: same rhythm at the same time, and it just it
Speaker 2: just worked, to say the least.
Speaker 1: Okay, Woodstock, there's a lot of press, those people paying attention,
Speaker 1: No you play. First album comes out, Evil Ways, is
Speaker 1: a lot of play on FM, kind of a hit
Speaker 1: on AM. The album is something. And then third week
Speaker 1: of April the movie comes out the record Triple Albums
Speaker 1: that comes out at the same time. Had you seen
Speaker 1: or where what was in the movie before it was
Speaker 1: actually released.
Speaker 2: Everybody says we did, but I don't remember it. What
Speaker 2: I remember is in New York City a year later
Speaker 2: and standing in line to see the movie with everybody else.
Speaker 2: So we're all of the band are standing in line
Speaker 2: and the show before the one we were going into
Speaker 2: comes out and they're walking out of the theater under
Speaker 2: the street. Then they start pointing at us, and prior
Speaker 2: to that that had never happened.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in the theater.
Speaker 2: No, we're on the stode.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, Now you're in the theater.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: And we've all seen the movie multiple times. What are
Speaker 1: some of the highlights. Crosbie still's Nashy Young saying they're
Speaker 1: scared shit liss sly in the family Stone.
Speaker 3: But one of the iconic moments in the whole fucking
Speaker 3: movie is you doing a drum solo. What was it
Speaker 3: like sitting there in the audience and seeing the amount
Speaker 3: of time you've got in the movie?
Speaker 2: Me up, it was I didn't know whether just creep
Speaker 2: down in my chair and disappear or stand up and
Speaker 2: start shouting that's me, that's me. And also there were
Speaker 2: six of me up there the way they did the edit,
Speaker 2: and of course later I learned that it was Scorsese
Speaker 2: that did that edit, and I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2: I honestly, you know, how do you react to seeing
Speaker 2: six of yourselves up there and only that then people
Speaker 2: gave it a stay in ovation when it's done, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, you know, let me call
Speaker 2: my mommy. You know, no, I didn't think that, but
Speaker 2: it's like, what do you do. It's like a place
Speaker 2: you'd never been before, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, there were many fewer stars there in the world
Speaker 1: at large, unlike today, no one's as big. There are
Speaker 1: many people in the landscape. You are now internationally known,
Speaker 1: not only the band, but your face. You're walking around
Speaker 1: people now recognize you. It wasn't It.
Speaker 2: Wasn't quite like that. I mean I've always been and
Speaker 2: even then sort of like in between, like like for me,
Speaker 2: it's like I have enough fame for myself, thank you
Speaker 2: very much. It's not like I could go anywhere and
Speaker 2: people would point at me and things like that. It
Speaker 2: was still I mean, it was a huge film, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't like at the same time, it really wasn't
Speaker 2: like a movie star or it wasn't Jimmy Hendrix or
Speaker 2: you know, something like that. And but it was never
Speaker 2: where people would pointing at me going down the street.
Speaker 2: I would get recognized and and you know, but it
Speaker 2: was it was never quite like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, just after the movie comes out, you start recording
Speaker 1: A Braxis, which is just a phenomenal album, doesn't get
Speaker 1: as much respect as it should to this day. Tell
Speaker 1: me about recording A Braxis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was really an amazing process. We
Speaker 2: had grown so quickly from being a band that the
Speaker 2: first album is all live you know, I mean, this
Speaker 2: is like raw material. The second album was songs, and
Speaker 2: we started learning really quickly how to utilize the studio.
Speaker 2: Carlos learned really quickly, like how to punch in, and
Speaker 2: so that his guitar parts, I mean, they're classic parts
Speaker 2: to this day. You know, he's not just riffing, and
Speaker 2: they're memorable, and so you could see that what he
Speaker 2: had in mind was like memorable melody that would stand
Speaker 2: the test of time. We were really good at arranging songs.
Speaker 2: I brought Fleetwood Max Black Magic Woman to Greg Rawleigh.
Speaker 1: A little bit slower at this point. Many people know
Speaker 1: that that's a Peter Green song, but most people didn't
Speaker 1: know for years. How did you know the song? How'd
Speaker 1: you decided to bring to Greg rawling.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a big record fan. I am now always been,
Speaker 2: whether it's like the cool English groups or Burt backrack,
Speaker 2: you know, to study his arrangements, but or Henry Mancini
Speaker 2: for that matter, and.
Speaker 1: I got it. I got it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that that that album was so heavy, That
Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac album, I mean it had a well on it.
Speaker 2: It had black magic war it has not only that,
Speaker 2: the sound of it was so cool. It was like
Speaker 2: when you first heard John Mayle's Blues Breakers with Eric
Speaker 2: Clapton right or East West right. I mean, those were
Speaker 2: the sounds. You'd see them in every living room and
Speaker 2: you know, you just think about it and you smell
Speaker 2: the incense in the pot. But it was the sound
Speaker 2: and as well as the blues were during that time too.
Speaker 2: I mean, the hippies love the blues and and so
Speaker 2: these are kind of iconic and this record, to me
Speaker 2: sounded iconic. But I also thought that Greg this would
Speaker 2: fit his voice very well, and so I brought it
Speaker 2: to him and he learned it, and he kept trying
Speaker 2: to present it to the band at sound checks, and
Speaker 2: it took a while, you know, for it to sync
Speaker 2: in to Carlos or the other guy, but then it started.
Speaker 2: We started working on an arrangement, and I think one
Speaker 2: of the one of the best things about the band
Speaker 2: was how we arranged the tunes simple as they may be,
Speaker 2: to be dynamic and classic, you know, I mean, I
Speaker 2: mean Bill Graham brought us Okova, you know. Yeah, Bill
Speaker 2: was a salsa fan, and so he suggested that tune
Speaker 2: and then evil ways. Like these guys when I when
Speaker 2: I first started living with them, their tastes were. It
Speaker 2: was really fascinating to me because the stuff that they
Speaker 2: liked sometimes seemed so crude to me, you know, like
Speaker 2: like crude. Like for instance, one of the tunes that
Speaker 2: the band played, uh before I was in, I mean,
Speaker 2: they already did Jingo, they already did some other tunes,
Speaker 2: but was one called fried neck Bones by Willie Bobo.
Speaker 2: And all it was was a groove and it was
Speaker 2: fr neck Bones and some home fries wood, you know,
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. And I'm thinking this
Speaker 2: is so basic, you know, so rudimentary, It's like it
Speaker 2: almost makes me laugh. But to them, it was all
Speaker 2: about the groove, you know. And so in the arrangements
Speaker 2: that that we would create create for these songs, it
Speaker 2: was all about the groove. But there was also dynamics
Speaker 2: in the piece, like I think that the Black Magic
Speaker 2: Woman arrangement is really brilliant that Santana did you know?
Speaker 2: And Carlos is like his theme up at the top,
Speaker 2: and the drums the way they come in, and then
Speaker 2: the beat that I play. The beat that I play
Speaker 2: I learned from a record that I bought for fifty
Speaker 2: nine cents in a drug store when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: It was like bb King plays the cha cha and
Speaker 2: I pulled that out of the hat. But that's blues
Speaker 2: players were playing that rhythm anyway, so it's not like
Speaker 2: I created anything. But but yeah, so also with that record,
Speaker 2: I got to toot my own horn here because I
Speaker 2: edited the singles. I edited like like Oilcova. I'd go
Speaker 2: into the editing room and not tell anybody in the
Speaker 2: band and I make a single out of it because
Speaker 2: the band was kind of a jam band in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and I just had a knack for
Speaker 2: editing and I enjoyed it, and I was kind of
Speaker 2: fearless with it. And you know, this is the kind
Speaker 2: of thing that you don't tell anybody or they'll argue
Speaker 2: with you, you know, so just do it if they
Speaker 2: don't like it, and say, gave all the tape, you know,
Speaker 2: to the engineer. But yeah, that record was interesting also.
Speaker 2: We were doing it at Wally Hiders Studios in San
Speaker 2: Francisco on Hyde Street and which is now a den
Speaker 2: of iniquity, and that was just unbelievable to look at.
Speaker 2: But at the same time we were recording that, Creten's
Speaker 2: clear Water was recording their big hit album in another
Speaker 2: room downstairs. I got called down to play with David Crosby.
Speaker 2: David Crosby was down there. I just saw a picture
Speaker 2: of this like six months ago for the first time.
Speaker 2: It's me behind Crosby and then the Jerry Garcia and
Speaker 2: Phil Lesh and Neil Young, you know. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't even remember these things, you know,
Speaker 2: and or you think you do, but then here's a photo,
Speaker 2: you know. And this was all happening in the same
Speaker 2: studio at the same time. That was another discipline band
Speaker 2: was Queen's clear Water. They were different. They were not
Speaker 2: of the hippie ilk you know. I mean John Fogeli
Speaker 2: ran a tight ship and wrote tight songs as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta talk about a couple more tracks on
Speaker 1: that album. See if you have any stories incident at
Speaker 1: nesha Burg, anything you can tell me about.
Speaker 2: That absolutely that incident at at niche Borg is. Everything
Speaker 2: to do with that song has to do with a
Speaker 2: piano player that used to hang around us, a blues
Speaker 2: player named Alberto gi and Quinto.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He's Italian and a white guy who played with James Cotton.
Speaker 2: He was also like a militant black you know, even
Speaker 2: though he's white. He was a big black panther guy,
Speaker 2: you know, revolutionary type of guy with the beard, like
Speaker 2: everything's about Jacovara and uh uh. He lived with the
Speaker 2: bass player David Brown, but he was brilliant and we
Speaker 2: brought him into it to help us arrange some of
Speaker 2: these songs like that. He played piano on it, Greg
Speaker 2: Rawley later, you know, learn some stuff on it. But
Speaker 2: that arrangement of that song, I'm trying to remember the song.
Speaker 2: I think that was. That line came from like an
Speaker 2: advertisement like cleaner than this, some kind of like cleaning
Speaker 2: cleaning oil or cleaning liquid. And then that bum bum
Speaker 2: bum bum dundown. So all that. So there's like two
Speaker 2: or three sections just to the intro, so it was
Speaker 2: a little bit complex for us. And then to me
Speaker 2: is the most beautiful part where it goes into the
Speaker 2: domm doom and that part that I'm playing, I can't
Speaker 2: play that anymore. It was so it was so I
Speaker 2: worked a long time on it, and if you play,
Speaker 2: you have to play it lightly, but it's like a
Speaker 2: slow motion wise, just like GETT. It was pretty complex,
Speaker 2: but it was such a joy. It was just such
Speaker 2: a pleasure because this is kind of like my my
Speaker 2: Brazilian jazz light style. To play with Santana now it's
Speaker 2: like I can't even I can't even play that hard,
Speaker 2: you know, And so I just loved it. And plus
Speaker 2: what I loved was Carlos is playing, I mean, his
Speaker 2: melodicism and the way he would arrange his his solos,
Speaker 2: you know, which were they were not like the usual
Speaker 2: solos like a Bloomfield solo or a Claptain solo. They
Speaker 2: were parts that were, you know, burned in your memory.
Speaker 2: And I always loved playing that. It showed a certain
Speaker 2: level of musicianship. And then when it breaks open on
Speaker 2: the end to that slow halftime thing, I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's just sexy as hell. It's so sensual, and Carlos
Speaker 2: and I always were like there with that, you know,
Speaker 2: and he would bend that note and take forever to
Speaker 2: come down like a water, you know, and I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like that guy, that the type of
Speaker 2: drummer that's the hopeless romantic, you know. So I'm like
Speaker 2: drooling and sweating and just like right there with it.
Speaker 2: You know. It's this music that moved me. There was
Speaker 2: another tune on that record, See which one was it?
Speaker 2: Do you have a list of the tunes? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But you know, I was going to ask you about
Speaker 1: a track. My entrance to the album and the reason
Speaker 1: I bought it is a track that no one talks about,
Speaker 1: which I don't think is the track you're talking about.
Speaker 1: But do you have anything you can tell me about
Speaker 1: Mother's Daughter?
Speaker 2: I laughed, because that's Greg Rawley, right, This is what
Speaker 2: Greg Rowley brought this. This is like English rock, you know,
Speaker 2: to the band and I have a hard time playing
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. I mean, it was like easier
Speaker 2: for me to play the other stuff and play this
Speaker 2: kind of Mother's Daughter. Let me see, I get it
Speaker 2: confused with I hope you're feeling better.
Speaker 1: Right right? You know, well, as I say, if it
Speaker 1: doesn't have any specific song, but it's followed, I hope
Speaker 1: you're feeling better? And then are you talking about Samba
Speaker 1: Patti or Sea Cabo or singing Winds, Crying Beasts on
Speaker 1: the koya. What was the other song you wanted to
Speaker 1: say something about it?
Speaker 2: It is not on that record, but I can comment
Speaker 2: on some of those songs. Samba Patti, now Samba Pati.
Speaker 2: I didn't play drums on that was played by our
Speaker 2: Timbali player and nic Roguin Conga player, Chipzo Arrayis. He
Speaker 2: had a feel on that thing that you know, it
Speaker 2: just brought the thing to life, and so I just said,
Speaker 2: you play it because I can learn it later. But
Speaker 2: we're making this record, and you know, he's kind of
Speaker 2: masterful at drums and everything, and so he played that.
Speaker 2: It's just so beautiful. It's simple, but man, it's a
Speaker 2: feel too, you know. And I knew the value of
Speaker 2: that song that was. It was like a Carlos classic.
Speaker 2: Same thing with Shako bo. I ended up recording it,
Speaker 2: but that rhythm is his k comes from him, you
Speaker 2: know these You know, I'm still the white kid from
Speaker 2: the suburbs at this point, you know, opening myself up
Speaker 2: to because he he was nic Roguin. Michael Kerrabello is
Speaker 2: of Puerto Rican descent, and and so it was a
Speaker 2: blend of these different things. It wasn't like New York salsa,
Speaker 2: let's put it that way. And so that that rhythm
Speaker 2: I would just transfer to the uh tom thoms for socoo.
Speaker 2: You know, that was new for me. You know, stuff
Speaker 2: like jingo even you know, goom goom, doom, goom goom.
Speaker 2: It's just basic. But I've seen a lot of cover
Speaker 2: cover bands do that stuff, and if it's not right,
Speaker 2: it's not right, you know. So I learned a lot
Speaker 2: from that. So what on na koya? That's Tippito again too,
Speaker 2: what's the other one?
Speaker 1: You know, let's see singing winds, crying beasts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's Carabello. But that's me. That all that vibe,
Speaker 2: all that stuff, that's me. All the anything vibe and
Speaker 2: you know vibes bib her phone as well, and the
Speaker 2: idea for just the atmosphere. I set that up and
Speaker 2: it was a beautiful way to start the record. It
Speaker 2: was kind of a bold way to start a record,
Speaker 2: definitely right. I mean you could have they say had
Speaker 2: a hit first, but we were very much into like
Speaker 2: a vibe. And even that's because the arrange, the arrangements
Speaker 2: of the songs too, it's all like setting a mood. Really,
Speaker 2: but there was one other tune. I'm trying to think,
Speaker 2: if it's on this, maybe it's on another album.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to the next record. Your nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: one album Santana usually can refer it to as Santana
Speaker 1: three gets great reviews. Santana's Gigantic has a hit with
Speaker 1: no one to depend on, But it from the outside
Speaker 1: didn't seem as commercially successful as the previous album. What
Speaker 1: did it feel like on the inside.
Speaker 2: On the inside, it felt like trouble was brewing. The
Speaker 2: success of a Braxis and Santana as a worldwide band,
Speaker 2: and we went to countries before a lot of the
Speaker 2: rock groups, did you know, South America, Central America, places
Speaker 2: like that. We got kicked out of Peru by the
Speaker 2: president of the country. Drugs. There were drugs involved at
Speaker 2: this point. There was ego involved, there was money involved,
Speaker 2: you know, sex, drugs in rock and roll. Here you go,
Speaker 2: you know so much at such a young age, and
Speaker 2: you know, they hopefully they teach courses about that stuff now,
Speaker 2: but they didn't then. And you're kind of lucky if
Speaker 2: you survive, and then you're even lucky if you, you know,
Speaker 2: can think and still make the music you want to make.
Speaker 2: So that was a heady time. A lot of cocaine.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of cocaine around that period, and
Speaker 2: that that druggle do it. So Trpezzo had an aneurysm
Speaker 2: in his brain. He took some somebody gave him some
Speaker 2: acid and it didn't go well with him and he
Speaker 2: was never quite the same after that. Coke Escavito, who
Speaker 2: was Sheila's uncle, and Pete Escoveto were in and around
Speaker 2: the band at that time too, because they were well
Speaker 2: regarded Timbali and Latin players. There was also a band
Speaker 2: called a brack as Teca at that time that was
Speaker 2: their band and very popular, had a lot of great players.
Speaker 2: Coke Escavito became a big influence on Carlos during that period,
Speaker 2: and he brought in no one to depend on. Although
Speaker 2: I've heard that tune since by somebody else, like Tito
Speaker 2: punt or something. He brought in another Tito Puente song
Speaker 2: for that album, and perhaps the song but inside we
Speaker 2: were still playing well, but it was starting to split
Speaker 2: at the seams a little bit and it was difficult
Speaker 2: to make that, but it's still a great record. I
Speaker 2: think it's really a great record. Let's see what else
Speaker 2: is on that record.
Speaker 1: Well, you know we can move forward from there because
Speaker 1: there are good songs on that. But how does Neil
Speaker 1: Sean get into the band?
Speaker 2: Okay? So, like I said, Greg Rowley, English Rock, Right,
Speaker 2: So Greg and I went to see went to a
Speaker 2: club in Palo Alto where I used to play as
Speaker 2: a kid all the time, called the Poppycock on the
Speaker 2: University Way, and Neil Sean was playing with a band there.
Speaker 2: Neil was like fifteen sixteen and he just blowing everybody away.
Speaker 2: Now he was in Samatao. When I was in Junior
Speaker 2: College of Samontao. I was playing charts in the big
Speaker 2: band that Neil has shown father had written Matt shown
Speaker 2: and so Greg was like, holy shit, who is this guy? Now?
Speaker 2: This is what Greg wanted, you know, like for his songs.
Speaker 2: He wanted like a Clapton kind of vibe. And Carlos
Speaker 2: was as great as Carlos was. I know that Greg
Speaker 2: always wished they had this other thing. So he had
Speaker 2: the balls to propose that, you know, Neil maybe play
Speaker 2: with us. And and I remember there was one night
Speaker 2: Neil's in high school, mind you and he goes to
Speaker 2: the Berkeley Community Theater and he sits in with Eric
Speaker 2: Clapton playing Leila and you can imagine, you know. And
Speaker 2: then and then Eric Clapton asked him if he wanted
Speaker 2: to join his band. Can you imagine Neil going to
Speaker 2: high school? It's like it's like my it's like my
Speaker 2: trip to la Like who's gonna believe you? You know?
Speaker 2: And and then Carlos like it was so big of
Speaker 2: him to say, yes, okay, you know, we can have
Speaker 2: another guitar player in the band. And and that opened
Speaker 2: it up in a lot of ways. In some ways,
Speaker 2: so Neil was in the band. He had to make
Speaker 2: a choice between Santana and Eric Clapton and kind of
Speaker 2: heady for junior in high school or something, uh, and
Speaker 2: obviously a prodigy, very based in that Eric Clapton vibe.
Speaker 2: And so obviously he chose Santana because he's familiar with
Speaker 2: the guys and you know, we're writing the neighborhood and
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So that's how Neil got in
Speaker 2: the band. And then that changed some of the writing.
Speaker 2: It's changed some of the the approach, but the guitar
Speaker 2: solos there came like two guitar solos and they were
Speaker 2: very different. But but I think Neil also kicked Carlos's
Speaker 2: butt too.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like the kid could play. And not that Carlos
Speaker 2: ever needed anybody kicking kicking is you know, he he
Speaker 2: already was one of the most driven people I'd ever met. So,
Speaker 2: but that's how Neil got in the band.
Speaker 1: Okay, the following album, caravans Aai your co producer. How
Speaker 1: do you become co producer?
Speaker 2: Well, I've become co producer because this is this was
Speaker 2: kind of my record, me and Carlos's record. And uh,
Speaker 2: but before you do that, what are the tunes on
Speaker 2: the on the third album I Want to Drive Me Crazy?
Speaker 2: What that tune is that?
Speaker 1: Well, the tunes on the third album are Batuka, No
Speaker 1: One to Depend On, Taboo to sant Loo, Overture, Everybody's Everything,
Speaker 1: Lagira Jungle Strut, Everything's Coming Our Way, and Paro los Romberos.
Speaker 2: Right, that's a Tito plantation. Yeah, it's one of those
Speaker 2: tunes that is one of my favorites. There's some good
Speaker 2: tunes on there now that you run them down. So
Speaker 2: what was happening? What happened? More and more was more success,
Speaker 2: more money, more drugs. And in another part of the
Speaker 2: music world, what was happening was Miles Davis, Bitches Brew,
Speaker 2: Weather Report, chick Corea, all this other stuff that was
Speaker 2: happening that I thought, this is where the shit is.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the rock and roll is rock
Speaker 2: and roll, but this is some new stuff. Me having
Speaker 2: followed the jazz thing and seeing what's happening is the
Speaker 2: jazz guys are kind of moving over to the rock vibe,
Speaker 2: at least playing a backbeat, and things are changing. You
Speaker 2: know that Bitches Brew Miles Davis went in the studio
Speaker 2: to record Bitches Brew one day after Woodstock. Wow, that's
Speaker 2: what Lenny White told me. So it's like there's change
Speaker 2: happening here and it's very exciting and and I was
Speaker 2: all over that and all over the Brazilian music that
Speaker 2: was happening music. You know, Sergo Mendez was doing really
Speaker 2: interesting things, and Carlos and I started leaning in that direction,
Speaker 2: and we also started getting tired of the lifestyle and
Speaker 2: we both got spiritual teachers. Now that started because John mcgloffin,
Speaker 2: he had you know, Streech of Noi and has done
Speaker 2: Mamavius Orchestra, which was like, like going to that show
Speaker 2: is like going to another planet. You know, It's like
Speaker 2: I'll never forget, like having to scrape myself off the
Speaker 2: wall after sliding down, you know, after hearing Billy called
Speaker 2: me in the volume of that band and it was
Speaker 2: just otherworldly. And that's when I realized, I am never
Speaker 2: going to play play like that in my life. There's
Speaker 2: no way I'm ever gonna play like that in my life.
Speaker 2: So don't even try, you know, find your own way
Speaker 2: and h and be happy. So so Carlos and I
Speaker 2: started bringing this kind of music into the band, like live,
Speaker 2: like even on last days at the film more we do.
Speaker 1: In a silent way, you kill it in a way,
Speaker 1: you do it better than the original. Oh unbelievable.
Speaker 2: And you know, man, it's just a groove too, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's a very simple way for like saying that
Speaker 2: Carlos is somebody to play a Miles tune, it's actually
Speaker 2: a Joe zallin All tune, right who started weather Report.
Speaker 2: But you could see the connection we after the third album,
Speaker 2: Carlos and I were so into this stuff that we
Speaker 2: and we were popular enough that we would we would
Speaker 2: hire weather Report to be our opening act on a
Speaker 2: tour so we could just watch them every night, you know,
Speaker 2: one one time with Bobby Womack, so I wanted to
Speaker 2: try to write with them. I love Bibie Womack, I
Speaker 2: love Maybe Staples, right, that kind of singer. So okay,
Speaker 2: So we go in the studio and we're very influenced
Speaker 2: by by you know, Antonio Carlos, Joe Beam and Pharaoh
Speaker 2: Sanders and Coltrane and Miles and and we have a
Speaker 2: new bass player now named Dougie Rouch who we met
Speaker 2: in Africa at that concert in Africa, and he was
Speaker 2: kind of genius with odd times and electronics ahead of
Speaker 2: his time. And we started playing this stuff and we
Speaker 2: did the album and it was very conceptual album too,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, crickets at the top and the
Speaker 2: saxophone where I did twenty seven edits of Hadley Calluman
Speaker 2: solo to make it like a sound pastiche. And it's
Speaker 2: still a beautiful record. I didn't listen to it until
Speaker 2: the fiftieth anniversary, like in the last year, and I
Speaker 2: gave it a listen all the way through and I
Speaker 2: thought it blew my mind.
Speaker 1: Bob.
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, man, we really did some good work. So,
Speaker 2: but the band hated it. Greg Rawley hates hated it.
Speaker 2: Neil didn't like it. There was a roadie that we
Speaker 2: had named Herbie Herbert. I knew Herbie right, so, and
Speaker 2: Herbie was like, you know, Herbie was the guy that
Speaker 2: started putting tied eyes on amplifiers and he was, you know,
Speaker 2: a supreme roadie. But he hated it too. He was
Speaker 2: not only they hated it, they were pissed. Clive Davis
Speaker 2: was pissed. Clive Davis told me and Carlos your committing
Speaker 2: career suicide, you know, And but we loved it. And
Speaker 2: so Herbie was so pissed he said, I'm gonna start
Speaker 2: a band. I'm gonna put a band together based around
Speaker 2: Neil Sean and it's gonna be progressive, but it's going
Speaker 2: to be rock and roll. And Greg Rawley was there
Speaker 2: and that's how Journey started. So I always figure, ah,
Speaker 2: I had a big hand in starting Journey, which I
Speaker 2: had a piece of it.
Speaker 1: Let's stop for a second. Tell me about you and
Speaker 1: Carlos getting spiritual teachers.
Speaker 2: I think for him it was dramagloffin, you know, being
Speaker 2: with treacham Noy, which he and also Larry Coriel had
Speaker 2: been a disciple. I think he was thinking, Number one,
Speaker 2: I don't like the lifestyle of like these drugs. It's
Speaker 2: ruining the music, it's ruining this. And two maybe if
Speaker 2: I get a guru like that, I can play like them,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. For me, I was of
Speaker 2: the same mind. I was reading, already reading spiritual books.
Speaker 2: We were both like into Paramahansa, Yoga Nanda. We were.
Speaker 2: I mean I always wanted to. I mean, before I
Speaker 2: got kicked out of that school, I wanted to be
Speaker 2: a priest. You know. I was a guy that rode
Speaker 2: my bicycle to mass six am Mass every day, and
Speaker 2: I in my mind, I was going to be a
Speaker 2: servant of God. I was going to be specifically, it
Speaker 2: was going to be a missionary priest. Don't ask me why.
Speaker 2: So later, while being on the road for you know,
Speaker 2: two hundred days, I said, I'm a missionary, you know.
Speaker 2: And but it's the music, it's it's it's okay. So
Speaker 2: I started getting deep into reading all of the the
Speaker 2: Eastern religion books. I was very much into it. And
Speaker 2: and I went with Carlos to see shreepedim Noid for
Speaker 2: the first time in New York. To me, we both
Speaker 2: took a taxi out there and went and sat in
Speaker 2: front of him while he was like on a stage
Speaker 2: and he meditated, and the whole place turned white. It
Speaker 2: was really phenomenal. And and then back in the taxi,
Speaker 2: Carlos was like, Man, I think I found my guy.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: You know? I think that was really amazing, But I
Speaker 2: don't think i've I don't think he's my guy. So
Speaker 2: I ended up going with a which seemed like a
Speaker 2: different type of spiritual person named Swami Sachanda, who more
Speaker 2: or less brought yoga to the States in a big way.
Speaker 2: And it kept us really clear and clean. You know,
Speaker 2: we were meditating every day, we were eating clean, we
Speaker 2: had aspirations, and we let the other stuff go. And
Speaker 2: it became very clear, with no no question or doubt,
Speaker 2: that we wanted to move in a new direction. And
Speaker 2: that's how that's how all that happened Caravanserai, and and
Speaker 2: that's how the band broke up.
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. What do you feel about
Speaker 1: all those spiritual insights fifty years on?
Speaker 2: I think I believe them all feel the same way
Speaker 2: about them now that I did. Then it's just that
Speaker 2: I incorporate them differently. But deep down I think this
Speaker 2: record Drums Compassion is just an extension of that. To me,
Speaker 2: this is an extension of Cara answer II. It's an
Speaker 2: extension of the way that I actually feel about music
Speaker 2: and what the power of music is. And then if
Speaker 2: you're going to talk about the power of music, then
Speaker 2: you have to talk about the power of pulse and rhythm.
Speaker 2: And I've very much always been into sound and frequency
Speaker 2: and vibration. I'm not a hippie, but I'm pretty out there,
Speaker 2: you know so, But I have a I have a
Speaker 2: better sense of humor now than I used to. Uh.
Speaker 2: I was pretty strict and hard on myself, uh and
Speaker 2: pretty a snob in a lot of ways. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of music I didn't like. I didn't like Zeppelin,
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd, come on, you know this? That is more
Speaker 2: like I want players. But now I'm I'm much more
Speaker 2: open and I can accept just the vibe, you know, what,
Speaker 2: the intention, what somebody's doing. And but I still have
Speaker 2: the same hunger to find new music constantly, which I
Speaker 2: find that most of my contemporaries do not, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean I'm I love finding new music. I mean,
Speaker 2: whether it's like the English or Norwegian or Scandinavian jazz scene.
Speaker 2: The younger people who come up, they came up with electronics,
Speaker 2: but they came up liking Coltrane and and Pharaoh Sanders
Speaker 2: and so it makes for really interesting combinations. I just
Speaker 2: discovered this guy the other day. You probably know him.
Speaker 2: His name is Wren. You know, this guy so out there, Bob.
Speaker 2: It's so out there, but it's brilliant. I mean it's
Speaker 2: like he's got this song where he's talking to himself
Speaker 2: like two different like and it's so deep and intense,
Speaker 2: and you got to say you can say like sister
Speaker 2: is fucked up, or you say this is really interesting,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, so I'm I'm of the mind
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of good music going on out there.
Speaker 2: And I read you all the time talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: how musicians keep barking up the same tree when that
Speaker 2: tree is like there's no more bark on it, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm curious to put my music in
Speaker 2: different environments now, with these digital artists or you know,
Speaker 2: immersive situations and and and you know, I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be seventy five years old next week, you know.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm enjoying making my AI art as
Speaker 2: much as I used to love playing drums. And now
Speaker 2: that's a big area too. That's like, that's like, that's
Speaker 2: as heavy as talking about Trump or Biden. You know,
Speaker 2: you start talking politics, you start talking AI. But I
Speaker 2: see it as a tool and I think we're living
Speaker 2: in exciting times. Scary times, mind you, but but I'm
Speaker 2: excited by you know, what people are doing in music.
Speaker 2: You just you can't look on the charts. You can't
Speaker 2: look here or there. You got to look in different places.
Speaker 1: You know, let's go back and do some clean up work.
Speaker 1: So how does it end with you in Santiana?
Speaker 2: All right? So I had been thinking for quite a
Speaker 2: while that was time to leave. There was a moment
Speaker 2: where we were working on like I guess I called
Speaker 2: the Trilogy of our Carave answer, I I Barboletta, welcome
Speaker 2: care answer, I welcome Barboletta. And you know, it's like
Speaker 2: I thought it was me and Carlos, you know, we're
Speaker 2: taking this thing in a new direction. And then I also,
Speaker 2: you know, was a big fan of Brazilian music and
Speaker 2: brought some Brazilian stuff in there, and I hear Toe
Speaker 2: and Flora you know, are you familiar with them? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So they were in the studio one night. We had
Speaker 2: done a tune and that I had co written called
Speaker 2: Yours is the Light, and Flora Uh was going to
Speaker 2: sing it. I wrote the lyrics and she sang it,
Speaker 2: and my playing on it is one of the proudest
Speaker 2: moments of my Santana career. Playing this style of like
Speaker 2: Brazilian music, you know. It was It's kind of like
Speaker 2: incident Nicheborg type of you know, like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: really something I can be proud of. And then at
Speaker 2: the end of it, Carlos looked over at I hear
Speaker 2: two and asked him, do you want to redo the drums?
Speaker 2: You know? And I here two listened to it and said,
Speaker 2: I'm not fucking touching that, you know, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: thank you. I hear too. And that night I realized
Speaker 2: it it wasn't me and Carlos anymore, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, if he in front of me
Speaker 2: is going to ask somebody to redo my track, it's
Speaker 2: like time for me to get out of here. So
Speaker 2: what happened was I was living with my brother Kevin,
Speaker 2: and I had this extreme pain. I had to crawl
Speaker 2: into his bedroom and say, take me to the hospital.
Speaker 2: And I thought I was going to die, and I said,
Speaker 2: if I wake up alive. On the way to the hospital,
Speaker 2: I said, if I wake up alive, I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to do the things that I've been putting off and
Speaker 2: make some changes. I woke up alive. Turned out to
Speaker 2: be a kidney stone. Wow, and those suckers hurt.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've had a few, believe me.
Speaker 2: I know, right, geez, only comparable to childbirth. So so
Speaker 2: the band, it was the new band, you know, the
Speaker 2: original guys were gone, a new version of the band.
Speaker 2: We were booked for a tour, but I had woken
Speaker 2: up alive after making a promise to myself. So I
Speaker 2: called the office and I said I'm not going. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to do and they said, well, surely you
Speaker 2: can do the tour. It's booked, and you wouldn't do
Speaker 2: that to us, you know. Carlos came down to me
Speaker 2: and I said, I'm sorry. I have to keep the
Speaker 2: promise that I made to myself. I'm sure you can
Speaker 2: find somebody else. I'm not going, and that's why I
Speaker 2: left the band. So it wasn't on great terms, but
Speaker 2: I was the last guy to leave from the original band.
Speaker 2: But I felt like now it was different. What I
Speaker 2: thought was like the two of us, it wasn't, you know,
Speaker 2: so I mean, we're back in touch now. We talked
Speaker 2: for an hour yesterday, you know, stuff like that, but
Speaker 2: there was you know, that's how I left the band,
Speaker 2: and it was it was really wonderful. I ended up
Speaker 2: going down to Baja California to this health place. It's
Speaker 2: really well known, and I stayed there for a month.
Speaker 2: I brought my drums, I got super healthy, and I
Speaker 2: came back and it just think, okay, where do I
Speaker 2: want to go from here?
Speaker 1: You know, So how did you start Automatic Man or
Speaker 1: how'd you get involved there?
Speaker 2: Automatic Man was okay. So I went to see Pink
Speaker 2: Floyd the Wall at the Cow Palace, I think, and
Speaker 2: and I thought, now, like I wasn't into their records
Speaker 2: or anything like this, but I was always into performance
Speaker 2: art and I was curious and I wanted to start
Speaker 2: putting something together that now was real groove heavy but
Speaker 2: not Latin but like funk rock, you know, but sophisticated.
Speaker 2: And I wanted it to be conceptual, and so I
Speaker 2: brought a friend of mine up there, young keyboard player
Speaker 2: named Bayete Todd Cochrane, who was like kind of a
Speaker 2: prodigy in the jazz scene, and while watching the Wall,
Speaker 2: I told him like what I'd like to do, and
Speaker 2: we started conceptualizing and putting it together, found Pat Thrall
Speaker 2: and Donnie Harvey and rehearsed every single day at my house,
Speaker 2: like every single day. And then I also at this
Speaker 2: time had pursued Stomia Marshtaw and that was a recording
Speaker 2: that was going to happen through Chris Blackwell in London,
Speaker 2: and so the manager of Automatic Man flew to London
Speaker 2: to meet with Chris Blackwell, and we made it so
Speaker 2: that I could do both projects at the same time
Speaker 2: in London, and we made a brilliant album. And that's
Speaker 2: where I met Chris Kimsey and oh my god, I
Speaker 2: just enjoyed that interview so much.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So that's how automatically I think we
Speaker 2: made a brilliant record, a brilliant record, and then they
Speaker 2: wanted to get rid of me for the second record
Speaker 2: and wanted to move to l A. I was like whatever, man,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know so, but we never did anything
Speaker 2: live well, it never came off well live. It was
Speaker 2: always kind of a disaster. But we do have this
Speaker 2: record to be proud of and we're hoping to do
Speaker 2: a re release with some extras and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: With that record, I bought it because you were on it.
Speaker 1: I certainly played it. How did you end up working
Speaker 1: with Sammy Hagar and Neil Sean in the subsequent decade.
Speaker 2: Funny story with that one. I was talking to Neil Sean.
Speaker 2: I was living in New York City and and just
Speaker 2: talking like we do, and he's saying, you know, we're
Speaker 2: doing this thing. I'm doing this thing with Sammy Hagar,
Speaker 2: and you know, we're talking about a bass player, Kenny
Speaker 2: Aronson maybe, And I knew Kenny because we'd done some
Speaker 2: stuff in New York. He said, we're just looking for
Speaker 2: a drummer. And you know how it is, you talk
Speaker 2: to your friends and you don't think of them as
Speaker 2: a drummer. It's just your friend. So it was like that.
Speaker 2: It's like, Michael, you know, why don't you do it?
Speaker 2: And so so I did it. It was a real
Speaker 2: real Herbie Herbert project. You know, real tight. Everything was
Speaker 2: clean and you know, really good. But it's not really
Speaker 2: my Like I said, I'm not really a rock drummer.
Speaker 2: But I had a good time doing it. The guys
Speaker 2: were great. I respected them. Years later, Sammy came out
Speaker 2: with his book, you know, with Joe Selwyn friend, and
Speaker 2: it was really I was reading it and he said,
Speaker 2: so we got this drummer, Michael Shreeve. Now Michael's a
Speaker 2: great rhythmic drummer, but he's no rock drummer, you know.
Speaker 2: And I practically split up my coffee because I thought,
Speaker 2: how outrageous the thing to say, you know, and I thought,
Speaker 2: he's absolutely right. You know, he's absolutely right. I mean,
Speaker 2: you gotta be honest with yourself. You know, I'm not
Speaker 2: that kind of rock drummer. I wasn't back then, and
Speaker 2: more than ever, i'm not now. I mean I can
Speaker 2: kind of get by with that kind of plane. And
Speaker 2: so it was a quick project that took like a
Speaker 2: month to do, you know, live recording, the live shows,
Speaker 2: filming of the shows, and then it was see you later,
Speaker 2: and that was that.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the drummer, you're in the band. You know,
Speaker 1: you're not the main songwriter. So after all Automatic Man
Speaker 1: in the go project, are you getting kind of anxious?
Speaker 1: What am I going to do for work? What am
Speaker 1: I going to do for money?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's always a thing with me. So after Automatic Man,
Speaker 2: let's see what did I do? Okay? We played? We
Speaker 2: played Winterland Automatic Man. And the next day I met
Speaker 2: with Bill Graham, just the two of us in his office,
Speaker 2: and I said, what'd you think? It was a disaster?
Speaker 2: And he said, you really want to know what I think?
Speaker 2: I said, Bill, you know, I know you're not going
Speaker 2: to pull any words or so he came around the desk,
Speaker 2: sat right next to him and he said, no, it's
Speaker 2: not for you, and it's not going to happen. And
Speaker 2: that day my girlfriend the time I was living with
Speaker 2: I rented a boat a lake in Golden Gate Park
Speaker 2: and I said, I think it's time for me to
Speaker 2: go to New York City. This is what I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to do. And so I asked her if she
Speaker 2: would come, and so moved to New York City. I
Speaker 2: kind of moved outside of New York City to Rockham
Speaker 2: County to Grand View on Hudson. Really interesting story. So
Speaker 2: I bought a house from a guy named Lee Friedman
Speaker 2: on the Hudson He's in the city. Lee Friedman's the
Speaker 2: guy that ended up doing all the merchandising for Kiss.
Speaker 2: He came from like Betsy Johnson that scene, and we
Speaker 2: became friends. So by the time it was when it
Speaker 2: was time for me to move into the house, I
Speaker 2: went in to move and the family that was there
Speaker 2: had not moved out. So I get there physically and
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's going on? And the guy that was
Speaker 2: living there was Arimavakian. Are you familiar with Aaron Avakian.
Speaker 2: They dissed him in the in the in the movie
Speaker 2: about the making of The Godfather, and it wasn't true
Speaker 2: what they were saying about him. But he was so
Speaker 2: upset because his wife had run off with al Pacino,
Speaker 2: and and so you know that could be expected he
Speaker 2: had he he didn't have. He couldn't get together to
Speaker 2: pack up and move. Later, I became like his daughter
Speaker 2: became my girlfriend. I'm still good friends with his son,
Speaker 2: guitar player Tristanovakian. So I moved in there and then
Speaker 2: I decided, well, really why I wanted to move to
Speaker 2: New York City to be in the city, and so
Speaker 2: what I did was I started a band called Novo Combo,
Speaker 2: and I thought, I'm give myself a shot at this
Speaker 2: sort of commercial thing again. I met a guy named
Speaker 2: Stephen D's through Bill o'coyn kiss, his manager, and we
Speaker 2: put a band together and we made a couple of albums,
Speaker 2: some really good stuff, but it ended up falling apart
Speaker 2: as well. And after that experience is when I said,
Speaker 2: no more bands, no more democracy bands. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to do anything unless I have final say
Speaker 2: and it's just what I want. And stop trying to
Speaker 2: make a hit, Stop trying to be beat your Santana stuff,
Speaker 2: Stop trying to show everybody you can still make a hit.
Speaker 2: Just fuck that. You know. You've always been left to center,
Speaker 2: do it and do it hard and be happy doing it.
Speaker 2: So anytime I went from money Bob, it just turned
Speaker 2: out to be like it didn't work, you know. And
Speaker 2: so ever since then, it's sort of I've just done
Speaker 2: what I want, what I want to do, you know,
Speaker 2: and learn to live with whatever I have. And the
Speaker 2: money is not always great, it's up and down, but
Speaker 2: I'm perfectly happy, you know. So I mean because I
Speaker 2: feel kind of fulfilled, you know what I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: I know guys and I talked to them often who
Speaker 2: have big bands and everything. I couldn't even live that way,
Speaker 2: tell you the truth. You know, you've got to play
Speaker 2: all the hits from forty years ago or this, and
Speaker 2: there's so much ego, and it's like, I don't even
Speaker 2: want to live. You know, I don't even have to
Speaker 2: be a musician if I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 2: So if you're going to do it, do what you
Speaker 2: want to do, because it's kind of sad. I remember
Speaker 2: at the when we were inducted into the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 2: there was Fleetwood Mac and it was the Eagles same night.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but
Speaker 2: I could see the wives of some of these guys
Speaker 2: from the Eagles and you know, like crying because their
Speaker 2: husband now is getting the recognition that they deserve. It
Speaker 2: look like roadkilled to me, where some people come out
Speaker 2: on top and they're all shiny, but the people behind
Speaker 2: them that have been through this stuff with them and
Speaker 2: they don't get what they what the stars get.
Speaker 1: They're like.
Speaker 2: They're ruined and they live in the past. And I
Speaker 2: always learned from that kind of thing. You know, just like,
Speaker 2: do something else, you know, you don't have to live
Speaker 2: off the fumes of whatever you did in the past.
Speaker 2: Like do something make yourself happy, you know, do something
Speaker 2: that you feel good about, you know, and if it's
Speaker 2: not music, then so what do something else? You know?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what Forrest Gump's mother said, you know,
Speaker 2: life is like a box of chocolates. So that's how
Speaker 2: I'm choosing to do it. And that's why I'm also
Speaker 2: excited about the new possibilities of like places to put
Speaker 2: the music, you know, and I don't know, it makes
Speaker 2: it pleases me.
Speaker 1: Are there any royalties coming in?
Speaker 2: Yes, I still get royalties.
Speaker 1: Enough to live on. Just you know, on the royalties.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: So you've never had to get a straight job.
Speaker 2: No, I never did. I mean I probably should have,
Speaker 2: but I never did. I mean, I never, I never did.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what I do, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: if I could do some programming music for your you know,
Speaker 2: one of those companies that do restaurants or this, that
Speaker 2: and the other, I could do that. I could do that.
Speaker 2: I met with somebody several times. People want to meet
Speaker 2: me and maybe be in their company. But I realized
Speaker 2: they don't really want me to do the job. They
Speaker 2: just want to meet me. You know. It's like I
Speaker 2: could do this, but you don't really You're not really
Speaker 2: interested in me doing it, are you?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I mean, I I really enjoy like what music does
Speaker 2: in different environments, that kind of thing. So but I
Speaker 2: don't know some in some ways, I feel like some
Speaker 2: of my better years are yet to come.
Speaker 1: How often do you play the drums now?
Speaker 2: Not so much. I'm in the studio every day. But
Speaker 2: I have a fib and I have I had a
Speaker 2: heart attack in December, but not a big heart attack
Speaker 2: because my all my arteries are clear, you know. But
Speaker 2: I've still never been the same. But I've recently got
Speaker 2: really fascinated with what contemporary snare drummers are doing, and
Speaker 2: that made me think, Okay, I'm gonna get back into
Speaker 2: snare drum. I'm gonna go back to basics and do
Speaker 2: you know, but I mean, I'm sitting here in the
Speaker 2: studio with drums, and I'll do a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: electronically and then the acoustic drums will be the last
Speaker 2: thing to go on instead of the first thing like
Speaker 2: it used to be. So It's more like I'm interested
Speaker 2: in creating musical environments, and then how do acoustic drums
Speaker 2: fit into that?
Speaker 1: What are the interesting thing that people are doing with
Speaker 1: snare drums today?
Speaker 2: Well, they're writing snare drum solos that also involve other
Speaker 2: songs they're playing to nobody can hear it, but they're
Speaker 2: playing to a click and with other sounds coming out.
Speaker 2: You know. It's and also just things they do with
Speaker 2: the sticks, and it's like, whoa, I just discovered this
Speaker 2: last week, several of them, and I thought this is
Speaker 2: so cool, you know, so let me look into this
Speaker 2: and see just this area. You know. Another thing I'm
Speaker 2: thinking is I was just talking with Don Gunn here today.
Speaker 2: Is I mean even I'd like kind of music I'm
Speaker 2: making today. Look, I wouldn't mind having some of the
Speaker 2: some of the you know, some other drummers playing on
Speaker 2: it than myself, you know, like what's that band, what's
Speaker 2: the Bandyan Chang plays with? What they called? Uh yeah, Anyway,
Speaker 2: there's this drummer named Ian Chang, which is so cool
Speaker 2: and I love and I love the electronics stuff, and
Speaker 2: I've been doing that since the seventies as well, so
Speaker 2: I still find like it's exciting time to make music.
Speaker 2: If I don't live in the past.
Speaker 1: You too many people are living in the past. Man.
Speaker 1: I could talk to you forever, Michael. There's so many
Speaker 1: things about San Francisco and about drummers. But I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna cut it off here now. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for talking to my audience.
Speaker 2: No, it's been a pleasure. It's been it's a pleasure
Speaker 2: to meet you after all these years, because of course
Speaker 2: we all feel like we know you because you you're
Speaker 2: so honest about what you think and and don't think.
Speaker 2: I love it. Keep doing it.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Michael.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left Sex