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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer Michael Schreen. Michael, tell us

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Speaker 1: about your new album, Drums of Compassion.

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Speaker 2: Drums of Compassion is the record that's been an interesting

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Speaker 2: journey for me, literally taking me over twenty years to

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Speaker 2: get it out. It began with the idea a question

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Speaker 2: I asked myself after coming home at two in the

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Speaker 2: morning here in Seattle, when I used to go listen

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Speaker 2: to all kinds of music and family was asleep and

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Speaker 2: I'd come home and want to chill out, but I

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Speaker 2: would listen to music like choral music or you know,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't heavy music. And then it occurred to me,

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Speaker 2: what kind of music could I make that I would

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Speaker 2: want to listen to personally at two two thirty in

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Speaker 2: the morning as a drummer. How would I approach that?

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Speaker 2: And that's the question that started on the path.

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Speaker 1: We'll continue the story.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I had a setup that I learned from

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Speaker 2: percussion master, Japanese percussion master stonemul Yumashta, who I had

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Speaker 2: the pleasure of working with in the seventies. Stone was

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Speaker 2: somebody that I looked up to as a percussionist and

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Speaker 2: as a kind of a force actually the way he

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Speaker 2: would approach his career, and he had a setup that

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Speaker 2: was like sixteen toms in a semi circle. We did

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Speaker 2: a project with him called Go with Al Damiola and

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Speaker 2: Klaus Schultz and Pat Thrall and Steve Winwood, and so

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Speaker 2: his setup was this beautiful setup where you could you

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Speaker 2: could kind of run around the stage and play the drums,

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Speaker 2: and I was very influenced by him. It even goes

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Speaker 2: further back. So I thought, I want this to be

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Speaker 2: a kind of record where drums are going to have

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Speaker 2: to be featured, but it's not going to be backbeats

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Speaker 2: and it's not going to be like groove heavy. I

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Speaker 2: want the drums to speak in a different way, in

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Speaker 2: a different language than they usually usually are, at least

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Speaker 2: in the States. I called upon a friend of mine,

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Speaker 2: a synthesizer sound designer from Seattle named Jeff Grinky, and

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Speaker 2: we began the project together. So it was very spacey,

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Speaker 2: and I went into a studio we rehearsed and went

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Speaker 2: into a studio called Bob Lang which is in northern Settle,

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Speaker 2: Richmond Beach. And that's a whole story about that studio

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Speaker 2: where he'd bob for years, dug into the side of

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Speaker 2: the mountain of a hill, literally and I thought it

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Speaker 2: would be great because it had like thirty foot ceilings.

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Speaker 2: So we did recording there and it was too much.

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Speaker 2: There was too much ambient reverb on the drums. And

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Speaker 2: at that point then we went to London Bridge Studios,

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Speaker 2: which is a very well known Seattle studio where Pearl

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Speaker 2: Jam recorded their first album ten there and tons of

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Speaker 2: other records, so that became the drums and the synthesizer tracks.

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Speaker 2: At a certain point I kept listening to I thought

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Speaker 2: it sounded too new age, and I started adding other

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Speaker 2: percussionists as they came into town, like Ayerto Morierra, who

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Speaker 2: famous for playing with Chick Corea, and Miles Davis and

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Speaker 2: Jack D. Jennette, also Miles Davis zuk Heir who s Tablamster.

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Speaker 2: And I started layering these percussionists onto the tracks and

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Speaker 2: then just grew it and grew it and grew it,

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Speaker 2: and I just lived with it forever. But there was

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Speaker 2: a skip forward eighteen twenty years. I kept wondering, why

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Speaker 2: am I not putting this sucker out? You know, I

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Speaker 2: really love it, but what's going on with me, And

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Speaker 2: when I changed insurance companies, they offered me to see

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Speaker 2: a psychoanalysis for free for six months, and I said sure,

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Speaker 2: and I went and I recorded every session on my phone,

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Speaker 2: and then this issue came up, What's going on with

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Speaker 2: me with this recording? Why is it that? What is

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Speaker 2: it that's happening with myself that I'm not putting it out?

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Speaker 2: Is it procrastination? Is it fear of what people will think.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the bottom of it, because I really

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Speaker 2: love it, and I just talked it through myself and

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Speaker 2: I came up with the I realized. I came to

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Speaker 2: the realization that I really love this record, and it's

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Speaker 2: almost like the world doesn't really need another record, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's like, who gives a fuck? You know?

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Speaker 2: And and I've put other records out in the past.

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Speaker 2: I've done a lot of solo work and stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: and most of it's left of center. Most of the

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Speaker 2: stuff my contemporaries don't care for that I do. They're

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Speaker 2: kind enough to say they don't like it, but they

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Speaker 2: don't say anything. And so all along I'm following my

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Speaker 2: own muse. But what I came to this realization is

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Speaker 2: I like this record too much. It's okay if I

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Speaker 2: don't put it out. I like it and I want

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Speaker 2: to keep it that way. I don't want to just

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Speaker 2: put it out and nobody gives a shit, or you know,

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Speaker 2: people say, oh, Michael, here he goes again. He lost

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Speaker 2: his lower chakras, you know. And and then once I

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Speaker 2: realized that that was the reason it wasn't being put out, Bob,

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Speaker 2: then I felt free to put it out. And I said,

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Speaker 2: this is what you gotta do. You put it out,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter what other people think. In fact,

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Speaker 2: this is the way you should make music. You should

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Speaker 2: make the music that you love and that you dig

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Speaker 2: deep enough inside yourself to bring out. And that's what

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Speaker 2: you put out. And you don't do it with expectations

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Speaker 2: of people loving it or adoring you. And so finally,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was tweaking it until the last hour

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Speaker 2: of when I needed to let it go for deadline

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Speaker 2: for the release. And now it's out and I'm perfectly

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Speaker 2: happy with everything about it, from the packaging to the artwork,

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Speaker 2: to the musicians, the mixes. And so that's the story

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Speaker 2: of Drums and Compassion. Also, I should say that they're

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Speaker 2: interesting thing because when I started the record, it was

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Speaker 2: a period. I remember that the Dalai Lama was talking

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Speaker 2: about the human kind is coming into a period where

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Speaker 2: what we need is more compassion, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: Baba Olatunji, Michael Olatunji, the great African drummer who put

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Speaker 2: out in the sixties a record called Drums of Passion,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, Santana on their first album, recorded a

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Speaker 2: piece of music from that record called Jingo Loba, and

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Speaker 2: so I thought I'd play off of that and I'd

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Speaker 2: go I'd call it Drums of Compassion, honoring Olatunji and

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Speaker 2: also honoring what the Dhalai Lama said. And it turns

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Speaker 2: out that I was able to have Olatunji give the

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Speaker 2: opening incantation on the recording, which was done in another

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Speaker 2: recording session with a group I was involved with, called

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Speaker 2: a Praxis Pool, with all the original Santana guys aside

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Speaker 2: from Carlos, and they decided not to use this incantation,

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Speaker 2: and that's how the record starts out, Drums of Compassion.

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Speaker 2: So it's been a long road and it feels really

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Speaker 2: good to finally have it out and I can move

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Speaker 2: on to other things.

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Speaker 1: So for those who haven't heard it yet, how can

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Speaker 1: you describe it? And what should they think when they're

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Speaker 1: pulling it up online.

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Speaker 2: Well, they don't have to think anything better if they don't.

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Speaker 2: For me, it's a The desire anyway, was to be

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Speaker 2: transportive and that the music really takes you somewhere you

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Speaker 2: can get inside it and just let it be. Just

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Speaker 2: let it be, you know, just let it watch over you. Also,

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of material, but I ended up

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Speaker 2: only using like thirty five thirty seven minutes worth of

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Speaker 2: music because to me, an album, just because you can

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Speaker 2: have seventy five minutes on it doesn't mean you should.

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Speaker 2: And that I always thought the listening experiences when we

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Speaker 2: came up in the sixties and seventies were just the

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Speaker 2: right amount of time because it was A and a

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Speaker 2: B side of vinyl, and the maximum recording time you

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Speaker 2: should have on each side would be twenty minutes, so

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Speaker 2: that the sonically it would sound better because the grooves

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Speaker 2: are wider, preferably eighteen minutes aside, so I thought, I

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Speaker 2: want to make this. I mean, it's hard enough to

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Speaker 2: get anybody to listen to anything anyway, much less an

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Speaker 2: album nowadays, and I'm very aware of that, and so

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Speaker 2: I thought, make it, you know, make it thirty five

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Speaker 2: minutes long, so it doesn't take up so much time,

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Speaker 2: but it could still take you on a journey. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's not a buffet all you can eat, it's a

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Speaker 2: fine meal.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you had all these anxieties before you put the

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Speaker 1: album out, you came to an inner belief. Now the

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Speaker 1: album is out, other people are scrutinizing it or not

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Speaker 1: listening at all. So what's that experience been.

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Speaker 2: Like, Well, it's been very rewarding people who are saying

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Speaker 2: some really beautiful things about it that it seems it's

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Speaker 2: paid off that I went to where I went to

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Speaker 2: myself to bring this music. Had some you know, kind

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Speaker 2: words from people that I really respect, and so that

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Speaker 2: feels good. I mean, there was somebody that said something

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Speaker 2: online last week about I got this record and it's

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Speaker 2: just horrible.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: Okay, come on, come on, you know, so I engaged

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Speaker 2: with the guy, not that I care, but I'm curious.

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Speaker 2: I said, so, what were you expecting, because obviously you

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Speaker 2: were expecting something else. He said, well, yeah, you know

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Speaker 2: the stuff you used to do with Carlos, and you

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Speaker 2: know Santana for and this that, And I said, of course,

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Speaker 2: that's why you didn't like it, because you're expecting me

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Speaker 2: to live in the past, and my job is to

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Speaker 2: move forward. And I recommended some other records of mine

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Speaker 2: that he might like better.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you went to for psychoanalysis because you had that

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Speaker 1: benefit from insurance. You learned about why you weren't releasing

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Speaker 1: the record. What else did you.

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Speaker 2: Learn, mean aside from this, mean in the psychoanalysis, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's private, bob, Okay, no, no, no, I it was

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Speaker 2: what I found was that I had been to psychoanalysis before,

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Speaker 2: but more like couples, a couple of psychoanalysis, and that

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Speaker 2: never seemed to work out, you know, and so it

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Speaker 2: didn't didn't make me feel positive about you know, you know.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, I found this to be a really wonderful

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Speaker 2: experience that you couldn't shut me up, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I just kept talking and talking that I'd listened during

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Speaker 2: the week to the recordings, and I found what I've

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Speaker 2: what I learned is that it can be very helpful

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Speaker 2: to be engaged in psychoanalysis, if for nothing else, to

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Speaker 2: just be talking and have someone to talk to and

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Speaker 2: in a safe space and they throw ideas back at you,

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Speaker 2: and you so, I mean, I haven't gone back to

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Speaker 2: any After that, I felt like, ah, I kind of

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Speaker 2: got what I wanted with this record. But I must

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Speaker 2: say also that I wasn't living in anxiety about this record.

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Speaker 2: It was just like, why the hell am I not

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Speaker 2: putting this thing out? You know, I'm making all the

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Speaker 2: other kinds of music in this but this one seems

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Speaker 2: to be a different issue for me. And so once

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Speaker 2: I realized that I loved it so much, I didn't

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Speaker 2: want anybody to say anything negative about it. Then it

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Speaker 2: was like, who gives a shit, this is what I love.

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Speaker 2: Put it out there so you can move on to

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Speaker 2: other stuff.

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Speaker 1: How'd you end up in Seattle?

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Speaker 2: My ex wife is from here. We had our first kid.

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Speaker 2: We met in New York City. I lived there through

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Speaker 2: the through the eighties. Interesting time to be in New York.

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Speaker 2: And then we moved to the Bay Area, where I'm from,

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Speaker 2: and we had our first son, Sam, and thought that

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Speaker 2: she thought to move up to the Northwest would be

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Speaker 2: a good place to start raising a family.

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Speaker 1: So you grew up in the Bay Area. What was

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Speaker 1: it like in Seattle? What's it like now?

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Speaker 2: Well, Seattle's a wonderful city. The music scene I found

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Speaker 2: because I was very would very much go out at

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Speaker 2: night and look at stuff, look at bands, and I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm also very curious about more avant garde stuff, whether

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Speaker 2: it's dance or theater or and so I would go

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Speaker 2: and explore that sort of thing. In Seattle. I've always

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Speaker 2: been attracted to people like, you know, different, not mainstream artists,

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Speaker 2: so so it was great, you know. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: never felt quite like home to me. And I think

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Speaker 2: that I realized that while driving through the Bay Area

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. It's the topography. It's actually

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Speaker 2: the trees and the and the hills and the you know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's eucalyptus trees and oak trees, where up here

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Speaker 2: it's pine trees. And it's this, that and the other.

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Speaker 2: It's a wonderful place. I'm considering, you know, moving somewhere else,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know where in the hell they go anymore.

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Speaker 2: With the way everything is going, it might be better

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Speaker 2: just to stay put.

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Speaker 1: You talk about your flues, kid, how many kids do

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Speaker 1: you have?

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Speaker 2: I have two?

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Speaker 1: What are they up to?

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Speaker 2: Well? My oldest is graduate of Berkeley School of music

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Speaker 2: and is in La producing and writing pop material. In fact,

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Speaker 2: he's the girl that just won I guess it's American Idol.

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Speaker 2: I think it's American Idol or the Voice. He wrote

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Speaker 2: that and they put that as a single, so you

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Speaker 2: know he's into that scene and starting to do well.

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Speaker 2: My youngest son is a real estate agent here in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: And you talk about getting divorced. You have a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Now, yes, I do, happily married for fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: So how'd you meet her?

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Speaker 2: I met her at a friend of mine ran a

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Speaker 2: biotech company here in Seattle, and she was his executive assistant.

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Speaker 2: And I told I saw her at an event that

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Speaker 2: I was invited to, like a charity event where one

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Speaker 2: of the one of the founders of the Microsoft. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's all a lot of wealthy people here because of

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Speaker 2: Microsoft and Amazon and everything else, and so one of

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Speaker 2: the first early founders had a place where it's kind

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Speaker 2: of like jay Leno, you know, like a ton of

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Speaker 2: cars that nobody else would have, and they held this

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Speaker 2: event there and the woman that was the greeter there

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Speaker 2: I was very much attracted to. And so I found

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Speaker 2: out that this was his personal assistant and we had

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Speaker 2: met before, but I asked him if he might if

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Speaker 2: I asked her out. So I did, and we've been

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Speaker 2: together ever since. Funny thing about that night, though, I

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Speaker 2: told her about ten years ago, I'll never forget this

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Speaker 2: outfit that you were wearing. I described the outfit and

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Speaker 2: it wasn't until like six years ago. She said, I

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Speaker 2: gotta tell you, I never had an outfit like, I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 2: do maybe I have the wrong woman? No? But yeah,

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Speaker 2: So that's that's how we met. Pamela. I know that

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Speaker 2: a friend of mine is friend of your wife of

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Speaker 2: Dorian Ringer Ross.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely from BMI in the soundtrack world.

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Speaker 2: I sent this record to her and she is head

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Speaker 2: over heels about it. She just loves it, like like crazy.

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Speaker 2: She said some of the strongest things than anybody has

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Speaker 2: said yet. So that's a good sign.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. You mentioned in all Microsoft, Amazon people who made

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Speaker 1: a lot of money there. To what degree did you

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Speaker 1: interact with those people? Were there any opportunities there?

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Speaker 2: No opportunities for me there. I mean I did have

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Speaker 2: interaction with Paul Allen, who I found to be really enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's amazing. I mean really, it's like Okay,

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Speaker 2: you go to his house and you can do some recording.

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Speaker 2: The recording studio is an exact replica of Peter Gabriel's

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Speaker 2: studio in Bath, England. And then and then he replicated

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Speaker 2: that in la and on two or three of his

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Speaker 2: yachts as well. You know, it's like before it was

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Speaker 2: before anybody did this kind of thing. He had his

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Speaker 2: whole music collection digitized and you know, you could just

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Speaker 2: push a button and the music came up. Now we

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Speaker 2: all do that, but at that time, I, you know,

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Speaker 2: I really respected what he did is starting the museum here,

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Speaker 2: which is supposed to be a Jimi Hendrix museum. But no,

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Speaker 2: I haven't had opportunity to get rich. Even though there's

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Speaker 2: rich people. It's a it's a different thing. I'm not

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Speaker 2: a you know, there's ways that I thought I could

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Speaker 2: have interacted with them in terms of Amazon even or

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Speaker 2: or companies that like provide music, because I really love

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Speaker 2: what music does in different environments. I'm a big fan

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Speaker 2: of you know, it's like I don't listen to the

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Speaker 2: blues for years, and then you walk into a tavern

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Speaker 2: or something and the blues is playing and you go, wow,

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Speaker 2: nothing nothing like the blues man. I mean in the

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Speaker 2: right place, in the right you know. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you're like that when you listen, but so much

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Speaker 2: has to do with your mood, the time of day,

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Speaker 2: and the and where you are specifically, you know, physically.

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Speaker 2: And I like to make playlists. I love to make

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Speaker 2: playlists for different you know. I'll be in a restaurant

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Speaker 2: and I think this is a really great restaurant, really cool,

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Speaker 2: really hip, really kind of international, but the music sucks,

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Speaker 2: and so I'll go home and I'll make a playlist

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Speaker 2: for them that I think this would really make your

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Speaker 2: place much better, much much like I found out later,

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Speaker 2: like Riuichi Sakamoto did. I don't know if you heard

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Speaker 2: about this. Where the great you know, the great piano

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Speaker 2: player composer riu Chi Sakamoto frequented a sushi bar in

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Speaker 2: New York City that he absolutely adored, the food, the chef,

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Speaker 2: And finally, one day he went to the owner chef

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Speaker 2: and he said, whatever his name, son, I really think

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Speaker 2: you're a genius with the food. I come here all

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Speaker 2: the time because I appreciate you and the place, But

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Speaker 2: I would you mind if I make a playlist for here?

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Speaker 2: Because I don't like the music that you play. And

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Speaker 2: it's a great story. And they ended up writing an

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Speaker 2: article about it in the New York Times, and then

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Speaker 2: the playlist was published on Spotify, and I thought, this

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Speaker 2: is so great. I completely get this. You know, I

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Speaker 2: love the place, but I can't stand the music. So

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of creating playlists for different sort

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Speaker 2: of vibes. And I do it for friends if they're

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Speaker 2: getting married or if they're doing this and that, just

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Speaker 2: because I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: So did you give the restaurant your playlist?

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Speaker 2: I did, And now I don't know if they've played

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Speaker 2: it or not. I haven't heard like, oh wow, it

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Speaker 2: really changes the vibe, man, thank you so much or

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Speaker 2: anything like that. But it was a good excuse to

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Speaker 2: put together like what I thought was like a sophisticated

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Speaker 2: international cool vibe and much like it used to be

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Speaker 2: in the was the eighties, when the when the Buddha

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Speaker 2: Bar was happening. I think it started in Paris, and

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Speaker 2: I always liked their playlist and somebody took me in

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Speaker 2: there one night when I was in Paris and they

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Speaker 2: were playing music of mine, and I thought, this is

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Speaker 2: the fucking coolest thing. I mean, I'm in the Buddha

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Speaker 2: Bar and my album transfer Station Blue with Klaus Schultz

345
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Speaker 2: and my brother Kevin was playing, and I thought, this

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Speaker 2: is this is what I like. I mean, I see

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Speaker 2: my music going in different places than most people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what I do now is I look at websites like

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Speaker 2: Sedition Arts, and I look at the graphic artists from

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Speaker 2: around the world, Berlin and Japan, and they make the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful you know, digital art, moving art, and I'll

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Speaker 2: take down their music and I'll put my music in there,

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Speaker 2: various pieces and see what works, and then if it

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Speaker 2: works out, con attack the artist and I'll say, let's collaborate,

355
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Speaker 2: let's do you know. I mean, I would like to

356
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Speaker 2: see music more look for more interesting ways than than

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Speaker 2: you know, like like more environ you know, complete environments,

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Speaker 2: and and so I'm excited about I'm excited about the

359
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Speaker 2: future in that way.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. How'd you become a drummer?

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00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 2: I was, I had just been kicked out of a

362
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Speaker 2: Catholic school in seventh grade. Why oh, some silly thing

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Speaker 2: where you know, have a bunch of pens in your pocket,

364
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Speaker 2: and one of them happened to be the kind of

365
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Speaker 2: smoke bomb that you make from a from a ballpoint

366
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Speaker 2: pen where you had a h what is it, a

367
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 2: bobby pin? Bobby pin and a and a match, a

368
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 2: wooden match, and so when you pull the bobby pin,

369
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Speaker 2: it smells like rotten eggs and and that accidentally went off.

370
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Speaker 2: And it was so funny because it was taught by sisters.

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Speaker 2: And the sister said, oh, somebody must be having some

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Speaker 2: problems in the neighborhood, and let's let's stop and say

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Speaker 2: a prayer and and all that. So everything was fine

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Speaker 2: until some kids, you know, actually went and told on me,

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Speaker 2: you know, like really so uh, and it was a

376
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Speaker 2: big deal. My father had come down and my father

377
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 2: was like, come on really, And then my father got

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Speaker 2: an argument with the main nun and and and I

379
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Speaker 2: got kicked out, so that there went my There went

380
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Speaker 2: my My career is being a priest, which I was

381
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: considering doing. So I went to this public school and

382
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Speaker 2: I must have been banging on the desk or trying

383
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Speaker 2: to be funny. I got kicked out of the class,

384
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Speaker 2: and I told me to go to the principal's office.

385
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 2: So I went to the principal's office and I got scolded,

386
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Speaker 2: And on the way back to the class, I passed

387
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Speaker 2: a room that was the band room, and the whole

388
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: percussion section was right there at the door, and the

389
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: door was open, and it just stopped me in my

390
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: tracks enough so that I got in trouble for being

391
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: taking so long to get back to the other class.

392
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Speaker 2: But that day I went and bought drumsticks and got

393
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Speaker 2: three rug samples and started playing the drums.

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Speaker 1: Now what year were we in and what was happening

395
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: in music? Did the Beatles hit yet?

396
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: The Beatles had not hit yet. It was just before

397
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: so I'm not so with the years. But the Beatles

398
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: had not hit. But I started taking drum lessons. I

399
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 2: went to high school. I was playing in bands, and

400
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: then in high school the Beatles because I was already

401
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: playing pretty well and the beat the Beatles hit, and

402
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: we used to my brother and I used to listen

403
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: every day. We listened to the Beatles, and we listened

404
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: to you know stereo where it's just the vocals and

405
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 2: then the other side where it's just the band. That's

406
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: so cool. That was like that was like, I mean,

407
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 2: I feel the same way now. We were just talking

408
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: about that here where now you can isolate tracks of

409
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 2: of you know, recordings, and I still feel like that

410
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: is revelatory, you know, And so that was very exciting.

411
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: So I was into the Beatles. I was into It

412
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: was also time of Jefferson airplaying Grateful Dead. So it

413
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: was this time when the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia

414
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: they were happening in Palo Alto and I lived in

415
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: Redwood City, which is a suburb of San Francisco in

416
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: between San Francisco and San Jose, and so they put

417
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: me back in a Catholic high school, all boys high school,

418
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: and I would take the train from Redwood City to

419
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: Mountain View in order to make band every day. And

420
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved being on the train. But

421
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: stuff started to happen and it was like Jefferson air Plane.

422
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: I remember going to a concert in Redwood City in

423
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: Palo Alto, I mean, and it was Jefferson air Plane

424
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: and it was Santana before they were they had a record,

425
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: and I thought, I saw Jack Cassidy and Orma and

426
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: I was looking at Jack Cassidy with those shades and

427
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: you know his hair, and I thought, man, how do

428
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: you get to be that cool? How does one you know,

429
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: how would I go about it? And I remember seeing

430
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: Santana as well, and and then I was into I

431
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: got into rock music, but it was more like funk,

432
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: and then I started getting into jazz. But I learned

433
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: from a couple of friends in high school that all

434
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: that San Francisco music was coming from folk music. It

435
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: was just electrified folk music. Basically. Jerry Garcia, you know,

436
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: was a banjo picker and Yorma was you know, acoustic picker,

437
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: and they were you know. I mean that's the time

438
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: when say, Richie Haven's album was out, you know, and

439
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: it was that vibe, that was a strong vibe. So

440
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: the whole scene that San Francisco sing was a very

441
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: powerful poll for a young any young person, much less

442
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: than aspiring musician, which I had become at that point.

443
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: And I just kept playing with as many people as

444
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: I could. But I never owned my own drums until

445
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: after high school, and so I would always have to

446
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: borrow drums for any gigs or anything like that. I

447
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: was into it, you know. Then I went to junior

448
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: college in sam Matteo, and there was a guy named

449
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: Dick Crest who allowed me to be in the big band.

450
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: And I've been into gene Krupa and that kind of

451
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: stuff too, and he put me set me up. He

452
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: said it was one of those school situations where professionals

453
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: could join the big band, they could audition. They were

454
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: the guys that were playing on Broadway in San Francisco

455
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: could come down an audition and be in this school band.

456
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: And for some reason he chose me and just said

457
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: there's something about you that I like. And so I

458
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: learned how to play in a big band. And at

459
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: that period, that's when John Coltrane's happening, Miles Davis, and

460
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: I learned that where the activity was, the excitement was

461
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 2: in these small groups, not the big bands. I mean,

462
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: I would go see Buddy Rich and I would go

463
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: and I loved all that stuff. I would go see

464
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: Count Basie and I loved it. But the exciting thing

465
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: was happening with drummers like Tony Williams and Jack d

466
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: Jeannette and Elvin Jones. And so then I pursued that

467
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: and R and B. So I always played in R

468
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: and B bands, and the only rock bands I played

469
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: in were like high school bands. You know, you'd play

470
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: a school dance or something. But I was serious about

471
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: R and B. Every time James Brown came out with

472
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: a record, I'd be down at the club and I

473
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: don't know why they'd let me in, but I'd go

474
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: down there and play the latest James Ground Brown groove.

475
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: And so that's what I was aspiring to be, is

476
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: really like a more like a jazz drummer. To tell

477
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: you the truth.

478
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: Let's go back. Your parents did what for a living.

479
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: My mother was a nurse. She got up. I remember

480
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: when I was in high school, we got up very

481
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: early because she got up to do the morning shift

482
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: and she would take me, while still dark outside to

483
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: the train station to go to high school. So my

484
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: mother was a registered nurse. My father worked at the

485
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: Salmonteo County Planning Commission, and he was a big fan

486
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: of jazz music. My father was so that there was

487
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: a lot of jazz in the house, and there was

488
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: a lot of Broadway music. My mother was into the

489
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: Broadway and I mean I was totally into all that

490
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: stuff too. I mean, you know, we got a problem.

491
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: We got a problem right here in River City.

492
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, my mother played all that stuff.

493
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, uh, I used to have that stuff down

494
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: like a rapper, you know. It's like and it starts

495
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: with a piano of the room done in room pool

496
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: and the rhymes with pool. That's right, we have Now

497
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: when I see that stuff, I see how brilliant it was.

498
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: West Side Story that was another one. I mean I

499
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: knew every word and note of that record before I

500
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: saw the movie. When we went drove up to San Francisco.

501
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: It was a big deal to see that movie and

502
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: the big screen because we all knew the music and

503
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: everything already, and that was that was very influential stuff

504
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: to me as well.

505
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: So you talk about this brother as your brother, older, younger,

506
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: and is he your only sibling.

507
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: I have an older brother and I have a younger brother.

508
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: The brother I was sitting around with listening to the

509
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: Beatles was my younger brother, Kevin. My older brother Rich

510
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: was serious into music as well, but he had gone

511
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: away during high school to a seminary because he was

512
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: going to be a priest and that didn't work out

513
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: in the end. But everybody was really into music. Everybody's

514
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: still into music.

515
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: So, Okay, you said you took lessons, but you didn't

516
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: own drums till you graduate from high school. Tell me

517
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: about the lessons and then how you played in bands

518
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: into what degree you played in bands in high school?

519
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: Yes, I would, I would. My father would drive me

520
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: to drum lessons. I had some really great teachers, but

521
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: we couldn't afford a drum set. But I bought my

522
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: first snare drum. I did my bike bicycle route delivering

523
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: papers and I saved up and I bought a catalog

524
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: Japanese catalog snare drum, and I bought another one, so

525
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: now I had a snare and a tom tom. But

526
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: I would always borrow drums. There was a kid around

527
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: the corner who had one. There was another guy whose

528
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: father owned owned a deli in Redwad City and they

529
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: lived in Woodside, which is you know, a wealthy area,

530
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: and he had a drum kit that he didn't play

531
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: so much, so he would let me use that. My

532
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: first drums that I bought was on the road after

533
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: high school, and I bought him saving up well on

534
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: the road, and those were the drums I played at Woodstock.

535
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: Well, let's go a little bit slower. So when you

536
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: were in high school, did you play in bands at

537
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: SA Cops, bar Mitzvah's other events or not?

538
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely a lot.

539
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: So then when you said you didn't get your first

540
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: drums till you went on the road. How'd you get

541
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: the gig to go on the road without the drums.

542
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: Well, I borrowed drums for that. Some guy put a

543
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: band together of schoolmates. He was older than us. I mean,

544
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: he said, I'm booking. You know. We were a cover band.

545
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: We took a train to Elko, Nevada, and from there

546
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: we got in a car. We went to you know,

547
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: played around Nevada and North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho. And

548
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: during that period is so I had borrowed drums. But

549
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: during that period I saved up money like per diem

550
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: money and stuff like that, and I bought my first

551
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: drum kit somewhere there in like North Dakota. And I

552
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: knew all along what I wanted to get because I

553
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: used to be under the covers with the Ludwig catalog

554
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: looking at drums. I knew how much a drum key costs,

555
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: and I knew this, and so I knew what I wanted.

556
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: So I was just fortunate, I guess to either they

557
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: had drums or I borrowed drums during high school to

558
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: play these gigs. Some of the guys that I played

559
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: with were They lived in you know, Atherton Menlo Park,

560
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: so they had money. They probably had extra drums there too.

561
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 2: You know. My father was very much in my corner

562
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: for and supportive of me playing drums, and so I'll

563
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: always be grateful for that. And he loved music, and

564
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: he loved musicians, and he loved black musicians, you know,

565
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: and we lived in the suburbs, but he was just

566
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: like you know, I mean, there was one time when

567
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: my brother and I went to Stanford University to see

568
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 2: John Coltrane, and I didn't have tickets, and I'm not

569
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: sure how it happened, but I ended up coming through

570
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: the ceiling in the men's bathroom, which turned out to

571
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: be the dressing room where Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison

572
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: and McCoy tyner were and they're like, who the hell

573
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 2: is this? And that's the first time I met Elvin Jones.

574
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: And he invited us up to San Francisco where they

575
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: were playing at the what's it called Jazz Workshop Broadway

576
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and my father drove us up and

577
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: of course we didn't realize that they wouldn't let us

578
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: in because we weren't twenty one. So we stood outside

579
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: like little puppies watching as what my father got all

580
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: night carrying on with Elvin and Jimmy Garrison having the

581
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: time of his life, you know, watching Coltrane.

582
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You're in junior high school. You're

583
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: in the big band. What's the next step for you?

584
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: No, in big band, that's like junior college. So during

585
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: that period, I came to a big decision because I

586
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: wasn't sure what I was going to do. I was

587
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: very interested. I've always been an avid reader. I still

588
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: read a lot, and I was interested in writing. And

589
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: there was a class where there was an assignment that

590
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: I was finishing up. It was a writing class, a

591
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: literature class, and I told the teacher I'm going to

592
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: be one day late with this, but it's going to

593
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 2: be really good. And he said, if you're late, I'm

594
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: going to fail you. I said, you know it'll be

595
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: worth it. And so it wasn't. Well. He gave me

596
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: an f. I said, you know, I'm the one in

597
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 2: this class that cares more than any other kid in

598
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: here about what you're talking about or teaching, and so

599
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: you know you're making a choice like this. So it

600
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 2: pissed me off enough that I quit everything in college

601
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: except for big band. And that was a period of

602
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: time when it was like hippie time and it was

603
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: us in them and straight people and you know, other people.

604
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: And so I decided that if I'm going to do this,

605
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do I'm gonna take it, approach it like

606
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 2: a job. So my drums were set up in the

607
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: living room in our little suburban house.

608
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you'd already gone on that road gig.

609
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: That's right, because now I was after high school. I

610
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: was in junior college and College of San Matteo, and

611
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: so my parents went to work, and at eight am,

612
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: i'd be there at the drums, like I said, I'm

613
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna work at like eight to five, you know.

614
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: And so I practice and i'd have a real to

615
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 2: reel tape recorder there where i'd slow things down to

616
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: three and a half, three and a third, thirty three

617
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: and a third whatever it was, and learned things. And

618
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: I was taking lessons, and then at three o'clock i'd

619
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: go to big band, and then at night i'd go

620
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: play clubs around the Palo Alto area, and that's what

621
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: I did for a good solid couple of years, and

622
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: I really progressed because I was practicing all day long.

623
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: Okay, in the next step.

624
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: The next step was apparently some of the guys from

625
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane heard about me, or somebody told me told

626
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: them about me. At this point, I was going to

627
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: the film more. You know, that was the mecca. I mean,

628
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 2: I would I've seen groups like the Yardbirds with Jeff

629
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: Beck and Jimmy Page. You see Cream there, very much

630
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: like Charles Lloyd with Jack Dee Jeannette with the Blues guys.

631
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: And there was a thing that happened where you probably

632
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: are familiar with this, but with Al Cooper and Steven

633
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: Stills and Michael Bloomfield. All Right, So I called all

634
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: my friends for some reason, my musician friends, and said,

635
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 2: let's go see if we can sit in and and

636
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: so they're like, yeah, right. And then there's one guy

637
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: that said, man, that sounds like fun. Hold on one second.

638
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: I was still living at home. He was living with

639
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: a girl already. He came back after talking to his

640
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: girlfriend and said, uh, I think I'm just going to

641
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: stay in And I think that that night when he

642
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: said that was the reason I didn't get married till

643
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: I was in my thirties. So I borrowed my father's

644
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: car and I said, damn it, at least I can

645
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: go and say that I tried. I'm going to go

646
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: and just say, you know, what the hell I mean.

647
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 2: You know, they're right, probably nothing's gonna happen, but I'm

648
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: going to go. So I drove up to the city,

649
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: went to Fillmore West, walked in in Census, going past

650
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: the apples, grabbed an apple before I could get my

651
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: fear go up. I walked straight up to the stage

652
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: to Michael Bloomfield looked up and I pulled down on

653
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 2: his pants and I said, hey, man, I'm a drummer.

654
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: You think I could sit in and it's like, okay,

655
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: my job's done. At least I tried. I'm waiting for

656
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 2: him to, you know, laugh at me or whatever. Instead

657
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: he leans down and said, man, the drummer is a

658
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: really nice guy. Let me go ask him. And I'm like,

659
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: oh shit, you know this I didn't expect. Well. I

660
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: ended up sitting in that night. I mean, it was

661
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: so traumatic, I don't even remember it. But afterwards I

662
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: was backstage, which is oh man, I'm backstage here, you know,

663
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: with all these guys, and the bass player in Santana

664
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: and the manager in Santana at that time came up

665
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: to me and said, we heard you play, and we're

666
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: thinking about getting another drummer, you know, And so they

667
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 2: took my number, and I didn't hear from them. So

668
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: what happened was somehow Jeff's an airplane heard about me

669
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: and they invited me. Yorma and Jack, those were my guys,

670
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 2: and they invited me to go to La They were

671
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: recording Bathing at Baxter's that record and the first airplane

672
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: ride I ever took was with those two guys PSA

673
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: and where the stewardesses were really all cute and with

674
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: short pink skirts, and it was special to fly back then.

675
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 2: And Buddy Miles, I remember, was on that flight as well.

676
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: And I stayed with Yorma. What was that hotel so

677
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: where everybody stayed, you know, No, the other one.

678
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: Well, later it was the Sunset Marquis, But before that

679
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: it was like all those places in Hollywood, like in

680
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: Hollywood and Highland between there and Libria.

681
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's on the tip of my tongue. It wasn't

682
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: Sunset Marquee yet but it wasn't Riot House at any rate.

683
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: Here I am, I'm a kid. I'm down there with

684
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: Yourma and Jack. And like Jim Morrison comes by the hotel.

685
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: You know, Oh you're talking about shit on Santa Monica Boulevard, the.

686
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: Tropicana Tropicana, that's right, right, So I feel like a

687
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: like Forrest Gump, you know. And and then Eric Clapton

688
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,959
Speaker 2: comes by with a cassette of a group he's really

689
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: excited about, really kind of raving about, and they were

690
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: called the Band. And then I go to the studio

691
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: and then David Crosby comes in and he presents the

692
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: band with a tune called Triad, which the Birds didn't

693
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: want to do because they thought it was too racy.

694
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: And so David comes in teaches them the song and

695
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: they put it down a record. And you know, that

696
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: was like my weekend in La. It's like if I

697
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: went back home, nobody would believe me, you know, And

698
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: so I would go over to the Jeffson Airplanes, their

699
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: mansion on Fulton St.

700
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: Wa Wait for you, did you play when you were

701
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: down there that weekend?

702
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: No? I did not. They just brought me along to

703
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 2: observe because they still had their drummer. I think it

704
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 2: was Spencer Dryden, and so I'm not sure what the

705
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: what the politics were, but I would go over to

706
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 2: their mansion, you know, I would hang out and I

707
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 2: would play. We'd jam over there. Garcia would be there.

708
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Ken Kesey would be there. Jeez. There were

709
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: a night at Orma's house where it's just like unbelievable

710
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: stuff for a kid that was like seventeen or something,

711
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's like and somehow it didn't work out

712
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: with them. And so I'm back at my parents' house

713
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: and I go sit in up there at the Fillmore

714
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: and I don't hear from them, but as one does

715
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 2: when you're a musician, you're always looking for free studio time.

716
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: And I went to this studio in San Matteo, the

717
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: same city that I went to college and where I

718
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 2: used to go there all the time, try to get

719
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: studio time. And I walk in. As I'm walking in,

720
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: literally the drummer in Santana. We passed each other at

721
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: the doorway. I go inside and Santana is there recording

722
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: their first album for Columbia. They had been to La

723
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: and it didn't They didn't like the vibe, and so

724
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: they just had a falling out with their drummer, and

725
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: a couple of guys remembered me from that night at

726
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: the Filmore, and then they asked me if I wanted

727
00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: to play, If you want a jam, you know and lead.

728
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: We played for a long time, and after that they

729
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: took me in a room, I mean it was Carlos

730
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: and Greg Rawley, I think Carabello, and they asked me

731
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: if I wanted to join the band, and I said,

732
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 2: you know, let me checked my schedule. So they followed

733
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: me home, literally to my parents' house. I go in

734
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 2: and pack a few things. I wake up my folks

735
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 2: and say, okay, this is where I get off. I'll

736
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: be up in the city and I'll be in touch.

737
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: And I drove up to the Mission District with these

738
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: guys and took my place on the Where was I

739
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: on the couch? Yeah, on the couch, And now I

740
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 2: was in the band.

741
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,720
Speaker 1: Okay, now you're.

742
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: In the Yeah. So all of a sudden, all these

743
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 2: things that I had worked so hard for and saved

744
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: up for, like like a union card. You know, it

745
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: took a while to get. They already had a manager,

746
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: they already had a record deal. They had an office,

747
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: they had a rehearsal place, and they they just plugged

748
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 2: me in and and they rehearsed their ass off. You know,

749
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: I think that two bands worked as hard as we

750
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: did at rehearsals like Sighting the Family Stone and Santana.

751
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: We were it was like a job. We rehearsed all

752
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: day long, every day. And then after rehearsal, we'd go

753
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: to the film wore we could get in for free

754
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 2: and we'd go check the groups out, and you know,

755
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: it was like quite a life. But we were working hard.

756
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: And I soon realized, I said this in my speech

757
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, that this

758
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: was no hippie love thing. This was like a street

759
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: gang and their weapon was music. And it was really

760
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: like that. It was like they're serious, you know. I mean,

761
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 2: they'd make fun of you if you weren't doing it right.

762
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 2: You know, it's like your mama that type of thing,

763
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: you know, and so you had to get thick skinned,

764
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: and you know, it's it was. It was so much

765
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 2: better than being in Jefferson Airplane. It was just meant

766
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: to be Jefferson Airplane. Like I listened to every once

767
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: in a while not really, but like David Crosby's first album,

768
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 2: which I played on and I listened to it, and

769
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: it's that music. It's hard for me to play, you know,

770
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: It's like I don't even know how it can sound

771
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: good kind of. So the Santana thing was perfect because

772
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: it was fiery and I was not at all a

773
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: Latin drummer, not whatsoever. But I approached everything like a

774
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: jazz drummer and it fit and it was just such

775
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: a natural place for me to be musically, and then

776
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: be friends with Yorman and Jack from Jeffson Airplane.

777
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 1: Okay, the record, the album doesn't come out until actually

778
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: just afterwards, talk like days. What was it like recording

779
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: that album and to what degree could the band work

780
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: out to support themselves on what we live it on.

781
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 2: The band was quite popular in the Bay Area. I

782
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: mean I had seen the band twice before I even

783
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: went up to the film More. I saw them at

784
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 2: a church days and I saw them at a high school,

785
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: and I was a fan of the band. He even

786
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 2: commented to my brother, this, that's that's a band I'd

787
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: love to play with. So, like I said, you know,

788
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: they were gigging a lot. They took time out to

789
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: do the record. The record was intense because it was

790
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: all live. It was all live. It's like, you know,

791
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: we do a better take, we do this, okay. The

792
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: guitars could punch in, keyboards could punch in, drums couldn't

793
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: punch in, and so, and the demand of the intensity

794
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 2: was great. You know. It wasn't like mister nice guy's stuff.

795
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: It was like, motherfucker, come on, you know. And so,

796
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: but I loved it. I just it was just perfect

797
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: place for me to be. And then the record was

798
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 2: done and we beg We'd be gigging all over the

799
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 2: place in the Bay Area and some places down the coast.

800
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 2: And Bill Graham was a big fan of the band,

801
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: and he he told us about a big festival that's

802
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: coming up. He said, you're going to play this festival

803
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: and your lives are going to change after it. And

804
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going

805
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: to be like anything that you ever experienced, and you

806
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: don't you want to keep yourself in check. And so

807
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: he prepared us for this festival by sending us out

808
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 2: and doing festivals like the Texas Pop Festival, Atlanta Pop Festival,

809
00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: Miami Big festivals. You know, of course there were San

810
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: Francisco bands playing, but other bands as well, and it

811
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: sort of got us playing in front of larger audiences

812
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 2: than say Fillmore's or auditoriums and things like that. And

813
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 2: then you know, of course the festival that he was

814
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 2: talking about was Woodstock, and Michael Lang and John Roberts

815
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: and the folks that put it together had bitten something off,

816
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: but they realized that it's a little more they can

817
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 2: chew that they you know, it got big and they

818
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: asked Bill Graham, which probably really hurt them because Bill

819
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: Graham was already like the man to them, right. And

820
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: Bill said, yes, they do it if he could pick

821
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 2: a band to play at the show. And so he

822
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: gave them like three or four options. I forget, I

823
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: don't know who the others were. And Michael Lang and

824
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 2: those guys decided they listened to Santana and they said Santana.

825
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: So that's how we got on that show.

826
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: Okay, the movie doesn't come out until April nineteen seventy,

827
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: so prior to that, it's all press. What was it like?

828
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all seen the movie, but your experience,

829
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: what was it like playing Woodstock?

830
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I mean we took a break

831
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: from the summer of touring prior to Woodstock. We stayed

832
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 2: in a house in Woodstock. We rented a house and

833
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 2: we set up to play in the living room. So

834
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: because we were always playing, and then we started hearing

835
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: about the traffic problems. We started hearing about what they're

836
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: shutting down the through ways that they called it the

837
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: through way out in California, it's the freeway out there

838
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: was the through way, so and that was like, whoa,

839
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, we can't drive there. We're gonna have to

840
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 2: go to the holiday in where they have helicopters and

841
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 2: we're going to have to go in that way. So

842
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: we flew in on the helicopter, I think with the

843
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 2: Dead I know, Jerry Garcia was there, Janie, and that's

844
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 2: when we realized, you know, it's like, holy shit, I mean,

845
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 2: look at this amount of people. This is like you

846
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: never nothing you'd ever experienced before, much less that you're

847
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 2: going to play in front of them. So so that

848
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: was really something. But by the time we got to

849
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 2: play there, By the time we got on stage, and

850
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 2: one of the things that I realized in respect Bob

851
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 2: is that as a band. We never thought of ourselves

852
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 2: as quote unquote entertainers. We were like serious musicians band.

853
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 2: We played to inspire each other, and so we were

854
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 2: always kind of close, I mean physically, so that we

855
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 2: could hear each other and that we could like look

856
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: each other in the eyes. And it was a huge stage,

857
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: and the other stages that we had played on that

858
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 2: summer were huge too, but we always work close to

859
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 2: each other physically, and it was the same thing at Woodstock.

860
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 2: So the only frightening thing about Woodstock was I remember

861
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 2: my thinking was, this is like being at the ocean

862
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,959
Speaker 2: and all you can see is water until you see

863
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: the horizon, and it was it was like being at

864
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,919
Speaker 2: the ocean, except it was people. We were very high

865
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: up as well, and so there it was quite a

866
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 2: bit distance. And so in later years I thought, after

867
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: being in Santana and stuff, I thought, it's more difficult

868
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: to play in a smaller club than a huge place

869
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,479
Speaker 2: because you can see the people you know. And we

870
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: had the benefit of us being a band that played

871
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: two and four each other, and so so it was

872
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 2: very intense. And the other thing is that I keep

873
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: forgetting is that nobody had heard any of our music.

874
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: Everybody else had an album out, nobody had heard any

875
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: of our music. But by the time we were done,

876
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: they loved us. And I think I attribute that to

877
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 2: it was we were so tribal and they were tribal.

878
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: It it just clicked. You know. The band was one

879
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: big rhythm section and oftentimes not with little funky intimate

880
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 2: parts like James Brown or something, you know, with this

881
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: kind of guitar or this like every you know, the

882
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: bandwidth was really wide and it was all playing the

883
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: same rhythm at the same time, and it just it

884
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 2: just worked, to say the least.

885
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: Okay, Woodstock, there's a lot of press, those people paying attention,

886
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: No you play. First album comes out, Evil Ways, is

887
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: a lot of play on FM, kind of a hit

888
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: on AM. The album is something. And then third week

889
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: of April the movie comes out the record Triple Albums

890
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: that comes out at the same time. Had you seen

891
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: or where what was in the movie before it was

892
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: actually released.

893
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: Everybody says we did, but I don't remember it. What

894
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 2: I remember is in New York City a year later

895
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 2: and standing in line to see the movie with everybody else.

896
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: So we're all of the band are standing in line

897
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 2: and the show before the one we were going into

898
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 2: comes out and they're walking out of the theater under

899
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: the street. Then they start pointing at us, and prior

900
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: to that that had never happened.

901
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in the theater.

902
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 2: No, we're on the stode.

903
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, Now you're in the theater.

904
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay.

905
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: And we've all seen the movie multiple times. What are

906
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: some of the highlights. Crosbie still's Nashy Young saying they're

907
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: scared shit liss sly in the family Stone.

908
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 3: But one of the iconic moments in the whole fucking

909
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: movie is you doing a drum solo. What was it

910
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 3: like sitting there in the audience and seeing the amount

911
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 3: of time you've got in the movie?

912
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: Me up, it was I didn't know whether just creep

913
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: down in my chair and disappear or stand up and

914
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 2: start shouting that's me, that's me. And also there were

915
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 2: six of me up there the way they did the edit,

916
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: and of course later I learned that it was Scorsese

917
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 2: that did that edit, and I didn't know what to do.

918
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 2: I honestly, you know, how do you react to seeing

919
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: six of yourselves up there and only that then people

920
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: gave it a stay in ovation when it's done, and

921
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, you know, let me call

922
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: my mommy. You know, no, I didn't think that, but

923
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 2: it's like, what do you do. It's like a place

924
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 2: you'd never been before, you know.

925
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: Okay, there were many fewer stars there in the world

926
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: at large, unlike today, no one's as big. There are

927
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: many people in the landscape. You are now internationally known,

928
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: not only the band, but your face. You're walking around

929
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: people now recognize you. It wasn't It.

930
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 2: Wasn't quite like that. I mean I've always been and

931
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: even then sort of like in between, like like for me,

932
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 2: it's like I have enough fame for myself, thank you

933
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 2: very much. It's not like I could go anywhere and

934
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: people would point at me and things like that. It

935
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 2: was still I mean, it was a huge film, but

936
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 2: it wasn't like at the same time, it really wasn't

937
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 2: like a movie star or it wasn't Jimmy Hendrix or

938
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: you know, something like that. And but it was never

939
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: where people would pointing at me going down the street.

940
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 2: I would get recognized and and you know, but it

941
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 2: was it was never quite like that.

942
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: Okay, just after the movie comes out, you start recording

943
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: A Braxis, which is just a phenomenal album, doesn't get

944
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: as much respect as it should to this day. Tell

945
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: me about recording A Braxis.

946
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was really an amazing process. We

947
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: had grown so quickly from being a band that the

948
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: first album is all live you know, I mean, this

949
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 2: is like raw material. The second album was songs, and

950
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: we started learning really quickly how to utilize the studio.

951
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: Carlos learned really quickly, like how to punch in, and

952
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 2: so that his guitar parts, I mean, they're classic parts

953
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 2: to this day. You know, he's not just riffing, and

954
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 2: they're memorable, and so you could see that what he

955
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 2: had in mind was like memorable melody that would stand

956
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: the test of time. We were really good at arranging songs.

957
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 2: I brought Fleetwood Max Black Magic Woman to Greg Rawleigh.

958
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: A little bit slower at this point. Many people know

959
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,479
Speaker 1: that that's a Peter Green song, but most people didn't

960
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: know for years. How did you know the song? How'd

961
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: you decided to bring to Greg rawling.

962
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a big record fan. I am now always been,

963
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 2: whether it's like the cool English groups or Burt backrack,

964
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, to study his arrangements, but or Henry Mancini

965
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: for that matter, and.

966
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: I got it. I got it.

967
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that that that album was so heavy, That

968
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac album, I mean it had a well on it.

969
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 2: It had black magic war it has not only that,

970
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 2: the sound of it was so cool. It was like

971
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: when you first heard John Mayle's Blues Breakers with Eric

972
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,919
Speaker 2: Clapton right or East West right. I mean, those were

973
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: the sounds. You'd see them in every living room and

974
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 2: you know, you just think about it and you smell

975
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 2: the incense in the pot. But it was the sound

976
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 2: and as well as the blues were during that time too.

977
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the hippies love the blues and and so

978
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 2: these are kind of iconic and this record, to me

979
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: sounded iconic. But I also thought that Greg this would

980
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: fit his voice very well, and so I brought it

981
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 2: to him and he learned it, and he kept trying

982
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 2: to present it to the band at sound checks, and

983
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: it took a while, you know, for it to sync

984
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 2: in to Carlos or the other guy, but then it started.

985
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: We started working on an arrangement, and I think one

986
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: of the one of the best things about the band

987
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 2: was how we arranged the tunes simple as they may be,

988
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 2: to be dynamic and classic, you know, I mean, I

989
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 2: mean Bill Graham brought us Okova, you know. Yeah, Bill

990
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 2: was a salsa fan, and so he suggested that tune

991
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: and then evil ways. Like these guys when I when

992
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 2: I first started living with them, their tastes were. It

993
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 2: was really fascinating to me because the stuff that they

994
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: liked sometimes seemed so crude to me, you know, like

995
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: like crude. Like for instance, one of the tunes that

996
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 2: the band played, uh before I was in, I mean,

997
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 2: they already did Jingo, they already did some other tunes,

998
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 2: but was one called fried neck Bones by Willie Bobo.

999
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: And all it was was a groove and it was

1000
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 2: fr neck Bones and some home fries wood, you know,

1001
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. And I'm thinking this

1002
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: is so basic, you know, so rudimentary, It's like it

1003
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 2: almost makes me laugh. But to them, it was all

1004
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 2: about the groove, you know. And so in the arrangements

1005
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 2: that that we would create create for these songs, it

1006
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 2: was all about the groove. But there was also dynamics

1007
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 2: in the piece, like I think that the Black Magic

1008
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 2: Woman arrangement is really brilliant that Santana did you know?

1009
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 2: And Carlos is like his theme up at the top,

1010
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 2: and the drums the way they come in, and then

1011
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 2: the beat that I play. The beat that I play

1012
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 2: I learned from a record that I bought for fifty

1013
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: nine cents in a drug store when I was a kid.

1014
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: It was like bb King plays the cha cha and

1015
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: I pulled that out of the hat. But that's blues

1016
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 2: players were playing that rhythm anyway, so it's not like

1017
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 2: I created anything. But but yeah, so also with that record,

1018
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 2: I got to toot my own horn here because I

1019
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 2: edited the singles. I edited like like Oilcova. I'd go

1020
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 2: into the editing room and not tell anybody in the

1021
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 2: band and I make a single out of it because

1022
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,560
Speaker 2: the band was kind of a jam band in a

1023
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and I just had a knack for

1024
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 2: editing and I enjoyed it, and I was kind of

1025
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: fearless with it. And you know, this is the kind

1026
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 2: of thing that you don't tell anybody or they'll argue

1027
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: with you, you know, so just do it if they

1028
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 2: don't like it, and say, gave all the tape, you know,

1029
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:07,719
Speaker 2: to the engineer. But yeah, that record was interesting also.

1030
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: We were doing it at Wally Hiders Studios in San

1031
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 2: Francisco on Hyde Street and which is now a den

1032
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 2: of iniquity, and that was just unbelievable to look at.

1033
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 2: But at the same time we were recording that, Creten's

1034
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 2: clear Water was recording their big hit album in another

1035
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: room downstairs. I got called down to play with David Crosby.

1036
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 2: David Crosby was down there. I just saw a picture

1037
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: of this like six months ago for the first time.

1038
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 2: It's me behind Crosby and then the Jerry Garcia and

1039
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: Phil Lesh and Neil Young, you know. And I'm like,

1040
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 2: you know, I don't even remember these things, you know,

1041
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 2: and or you think you do, but then here's a photo,

1042
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 2: you know. And this was all happening in the same

1043
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 2: studio at the same time. That was another discipline band

1044
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 2: was Queen's clear Water. They were different. They were not

1045
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,759
Speaker 2: of the hippie ilk you know. I mean John Fogeli

1046
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 2: ran a tight ship and wrote tight songs as well.

1047
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta talk about a couple more tracks on

1048
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: that album. See if you have any stories incident at

1049
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: nesha Burg, anything you can tell me about.

1050
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 2: That absolutely that incident at at niche Borg is. Everything

1051
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 2: to do with that song has to do with a

1052
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 2: piano player that used to hang around us, a blues

1053
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 2: player named Alberto gi and Quinto.

1054
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: He was.

1055
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: He's Italian and a white guy who played with James Cotton.

1056
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 2: He was also like a militant black you know, even

1057
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: though he's white. He was a big black panther guy,

1058
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 2: you know, revolutionary type of guy with the beard, like

1059
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 2: everything's about Jacovara and uh uh. He lived with the

1060
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 2: bass player David Brown, but he was brilliant and we

1061
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 2: brought him into it to help us arrange some of

1062
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: these songs like that. He played piano on it, Greg

1063
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: Rawley later, you know, learn some stuff on it. But

1064
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:45,719
Speaker 2: that arrangement of that song, I'm trying to remember the song.

1065
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 2: I think that was. That line came from like an

1066
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 2: advertisement like cleaner than this, some kind of like cleaning

1067
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: cleaning oil or cleaning liquid. And then that bum bum

1068
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 2: bum bum dundown. So all that. So there's like two

1069
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 2: or three sections just to the intro, so it was

1070
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 2: a little bit complex for us. And then to me

1071
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 2: is the most beautiful part where it goes into the

1072
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 2: domm doom and that part that I'm playing, I can't

1073
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 2: play that anymore. It was so it was so I

1074
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 2: worked a long time on it, and if you play,

1075
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 2: you have to play it lightly, but it's like a

1076
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 2: slow motion wise, just like GETT. It was pretty complex,

1077
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 2: but it was such a joy. It was just such

1078
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 2: a pleasure because this is kind of like my my

1079
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 2: Brazilian jazz light style. To play with Santana now it's

1080
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 2: like I can't even I can't even play that hard,

1081
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:12,839
Speaker 2: you know, And so I just loved it. And plus

1082
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 2: what I loved was Carlos is playing, I mean, his

1083
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 2: melodicism and the way he would arrange his his solos,

1084
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 2: you know, which were they were not like the usual

1085
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: solos like a Bloomfield solo or a Claptain solo. They

1086
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 2: were parts that were, you know, burned in your memory.

1087
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 2: And I always loved playing that. It showed a certain

1088
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 2: level of musicianship. And then when it breaks open on

1089
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 2: the end to that slow halftime thing, I don't know,

1090
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:52,440
Speaker 2: it's just sexy as hell. It's so sensual, and Carlos

1091
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 2: and I always were like there with that, you know,

1092
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 2: and he would bend that note and take forever to

1093
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 2: come down like a water, you know, and I was,

1094
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like that guy, that the type of

1095
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 2: drummer that's the hopeless romantic, you know. So I'm like

1096
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: drooling and sweating and just like right there with it.

1097
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 2: You know. It's this music that moved me. There was

1098
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 2: another tune on that record, See which one was it?

1099
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 2: Do you have a list of the tunes? Yeah?

1100
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: But you know, I was going to ask you about

1101
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: a track. My entrance to the album and the reason

1102
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: I bought it is a track that no one talks about,

1103
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: which I don't think is the track you're talking about.

1104
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:31,759
Speaker 1: But do you have anything you can tell me about

1105
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: Mother's Daughter?

1106
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 2: I laughed, because that's Greg Rawley, right, This is what

1107
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 2: Greg Rowley brought this. This is like English rock, you know,

1108
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 2: to the band and I have a hard time playing

1109
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. I mean, it was like easier

1110
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 2: for me to play the other stuff and play this

1111
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 2: kind of Mother's Daughter. Let me see, I get it

1112
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: confused with I hope you're feeling better.

1113
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: Right right? You know, well, as I say, if it

1114
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: doesn't have any specific song, but it's followed, I hope

1115
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: you're feeling better? And then are you talking about Samba

1116
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: Patti or Sea Cabo or singing Winds, Crying Beasts on

1117
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 1: the koya. What was the other song you wanted to

1118
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,719
Speaker 1: say something about it?

1119
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 2: It is not on that record, but I can comment

1120
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 2: on some of those songs. Samba Patti, now Samba Pati.

1121
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 2: I didn't play drums on that was played by our

1122
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 2: Timbali player and nic Roguin Conga player, Chipzo Arrayis. He

1123
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 2: had a feel on that thing that you know, it

1124
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 2: just brought the thing to life, and so I just said,

1125
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: you play it because I can learn it later. But

1126
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 2: we're making this record, and you know, he's kind of

1127
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 2: masterful at drums and everything, and so he played that.

1128
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 2: It's just so beautiful. It's simple, but man, it's a

1129
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 2: feel too, you know. And I knew the value of

1130
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 2: that song that was. It was like a Carlos classic.

1131
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 2: Same thing with Shako bo. I ended up recording it,

1132
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 2: but that rhythm is his k comes from him, you

1133
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 2: know these You know, I'm still the white kid from

1134
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 2: the suburbs at this point, you know, opening myself up

1135
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 2: to because he he was nic Roguin. Michael Kerrabello is

1136
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 2: of Puerto Rican descent, and and so it was a

1137
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 2: blend of these different things. It wasn't like New York salsa,

1138
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 2: let's put it that way. And so that that rhythm

1139
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: I would just transfer to the uh tom thoms for socoo.

1140
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 2: You know, that was new for me. You know, stuff

1141
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 2: like jingo even you know, goom goom, doom, goom goom.

1142
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 2: It's just basic. But I've seen a lot of cover

1143
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 2: cover bands do that stuff, and if it's not right,

1144
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 2: it's not right, you know. So I learned a lot

1145
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,679
Speaker 2: from that. So what on na koya? That's Tippito again too,

1146
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 2: what's the other one?

1147
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: You know, let's see singing winds, crying beasts.

1148
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's Carabello. But that's me. That all that vibe,

1149
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 2: all that stuff, that's me. All the anything vibe and

1150
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: you know vibes bib her phone as well, and the

1151
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 2: idea for just the atmosphere. I set that up and

1152
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: it was a beautiful way to start the record. It

1153
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 2: was kind of a bold way to start a record,

1154
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 2: definitely right. I mean you could have they say had

1155
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,680
Speaker 2: a hit first, but we were very much into like

1156
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 2: a vibe. And even that's because the arrange, the arrangements

1157
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,719
Speaker 2: of the songs too, it's all like setting a mood. Really,

1158
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 2: but there was one other tune. I'm trying to think,

1159
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 2: if it's on this, maybe it's on another album.

1160
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to the next record. Your nineteen seventy

1161
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,480
Speaker 1: one album Santana usually can refer it to as Santana

1162
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: three gets great reviews. Santana's Gigantic has a hit with

1163
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: no one to depend on, But it from the outside

1164
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: didn't seem as commercially successful as the previous album. What

1165
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 1: did it feel like on the inside.

1166
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 2: On the inside, it felt like trouble was brewing. The

1167
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 2: success of a Braxis and Santana as a worldwide band,

1168
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 2: and we went to countries before a lot of the

1169
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 2: rock groups, did you know, South America, Central America, places

1170
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:08,600
Speaker 2: like that. We got kicked out of Peru by the

1171
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 2: president of the country. Drugs. There were drugs involved at

1172
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 2: this point. There was ego involved, there was money involved,

1173
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 2: you know, sex, drugs in rock and roll. Here you go,

1174
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 2: you know so much at such a young age, and

1175
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 2: you know, they hopefully they teach courses about that stuff now,

1176
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 2: but they didn't then. And you're kind of lucky if

1177
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 2: you survive, and then you're even lucky if you, you know,

1178
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 2: can think and still make the music you want to make.

1179
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,680
Speaker 2: So that was a heady time. A lot of cocaine.

1180
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 2: There was a lot of cocaine around that period, and

1181
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 2: that that druggle do it. So Trpezzo had an aneurysm

1182
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 2: in his brain. He took some somebody gave him some

1183
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: acid and it didn't go well with him and he

1184
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 2: was never quite the same after that. Coke Escavito, who

1185
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 2: was Sheila's uncle, and Pete Escoveto were in and around

1186
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 2: the band at that time too, because they were well

1187
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 2: regarded Timbali and Latin players. There was also a band

1188
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 2: called a brack as Teca at that time that was

1189
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 2: their band and very popular, had a lot of great players.

1190
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 2: Coke Escavito became a big influence on Carlos during that period,

1191
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 2: and he brought in no one to depend on. Although

1192
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:48,679
Speaker 2: I've heard that tune since by somebody else, like Tito

1193
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 2: punt or something. He brought in another Tito Puente song

1194
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: for that album, and perhaps the song but inside we

1195
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 2: were still playing well, but it was starting to split

1196
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 2: at the seams a little bit and it was difficult

1197
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 2: to make that, but it's still a great record. I

1198
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:15,679
Speaker 2: think it's really a great record. Let's see what else

1199
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 2: is on that record.

1200
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, you know we can move forward from there because

1201
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: there are good songs on that. But how does Neil

1202
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 1: Sean get into the band?

1203
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 2: Okay? So, like I said, Greg Rowley, English Rock, Right,

1204
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,600
Speaker 2: So Greg and I went to see went to a

1205
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 2: club in Palo Alto where I used to play as

1206
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 2: a kid all the time, called the Poppycock on the

1207
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 2: University Way, and Neil Sean was playing with a band there.

1208
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 2: Neil was like fifteen sixteen and he just blowing everybody away.

1209
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,759
Speaker 2: Now he was in Samatao. When I was in Junior

1210
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 2: College of Samontao. I was playing charts in the big

1211
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 2: band that Neil has shown father had written Matt shown

1212
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 2: and so Greg was like, holy shit, who is this guy? Now?

1213
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: This is what Greg wanted, you know, like for his songs.

1214
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 2: He wanted like a Clapton kind of vibe. And Carlos

1215
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 2: was as great as Carlos was. I know that Greg

1216
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 2: always wished they had this other thing. So he had

1217
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 2: the balls to propose that, you know, Neil maybe play

1218
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 2: with us. And and I remember there was one night

1219
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 2: Neil's in high school, mind you and he goes to

1220
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 2: the Berkeley Community Theater and he sits in with Eric

1221
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 2: Clapton playing Leila and you can imagine, you know. And

1222
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 2: then and then Eric Clapton asked him if he wanted

1223
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 2: to join his band. Can you imagine Neil going to

1224
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 2: high school? It's like it's like my it's like my

1225
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 2: trip to la Like who's gonna believe you? You know?

1226
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 2: And and then Carlos like it was so big of

1227
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 2: him to say, yes, okay, you know, we can have

1228
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 2: another guitar player in the band. And and that opened

1229
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:31,719
Speaker 2: it up in a lot of ways. In some ways,

1230
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 2: so Neil was in the band. He had to make

1231
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 2: a choice between Santana and Eric Clapton and kind of

1232
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 2: heady for junior in high school or something, uh, and

1233
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 2: obviously a prodigy, very based in that Eric Clapton vibe.

1234
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 2: And so obviously he chose Santana because he's familiar with

1235
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 2: the guys and you know, we're writing the neighborhood and

1236
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So that's how Neil got in

1237
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 2: the band. And then that changed some of the writing.

1238
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 2: It's changed some of the the approach, but the guitar

1239
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 2: solos there came like two guitar solos and they were

1240
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 2: very different. But but I think Neil also kicked Carlos's

1241
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 2: butt too.

1242
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 1: You know.

1243
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 2: It's like the kid could play. And not that Carlos

1244
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 2: ever needed anybody kicking kicking is you know, he he

1245
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 2: already was one of the most driven people I'd ever met. So,

1246
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 2: but that's how Neil got in the band.

1247
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: Okay, the following album, caravans Aai your co producer. How

1248
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:39,879
Speaker 1: do you become co producer?

1249
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 2: Well, I've become co producer because this is this was

1250
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 2: kind of my record, me and Carlos's record. And uh,

1251
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,559
Speaker 2: but before you do that, what are the tunes on

1252
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: the on the third album I Want to Drive Me Crazy?

1253
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 2: What that tune is that?

1254
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,680
Speaker 1: Well, the tunes on the third album are Batuka, No

1255
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:08,600
Speaker 1: One to Depend On, Taboo to sant Loo, Overture, Everybody's Everything,

1256
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:14,640
Speaker 1: Lagira Jungle Strut, Everything's Coming Our Way, and Paro los Romberos.

1257
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:21,639
Speaker 2: Right, that's a Tito plantation. Yeah, it's one of those

1258
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 2: tunes that is one of my favorites. There's some good

1259
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 2: tunes on there now that you run them down. So

1260
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:34,560
Speaker 2: what was happening? What happened? More and more was more success,

1261
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 2: more money, more drugs. And in another part of the

1262
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 2: music world, what was happening was Miles Davis, Bitches Brew,

1263
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 2: Weather Report, chick Corea, all this other stuff that was

1264
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 2: happening that I thought, this is where the shit is.

1265
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the rock and roll is rock

1266
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,639
Speaker 2: and roll, but this is some new stuff. Me having

1267
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 2: followed the jazz thing and seeing what's happening is the

1268
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 2: jazz guys are kind of moving over to the rock vibe,

1269
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 2: at least playing a backbeat, and things are changing. You

1270
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 2: know that Bitches Brew Miles Davis went in the studio

1271
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 2: to record Bitches Brew one day after Woodstock. Wow, that's

1272
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 2: what Lenny White told me. So it's like there's change

1273
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 2: happening here and it's very exciting and and I was

1274
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,640
Speaker 2: all over that and all over the Brazilian music that

1275
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 2: was happening music. You know, Sergo Mendez was doing really

1276
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 2: interesting things, and Carlos and I started leaning in that direction,

1277
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 2: and we also started getting tired of the lifestyle and

1278
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 2: we both got spiritual teachers. Now that started because John mcgloffin,

1279
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: he had you know, Streech of Noi and has done

1280
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 2: Mamavius Orchestra, which was like, like going to that show

1281
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 2: is like going to another planet. You know, It's like

1282
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 2: I'll never forget, like having to scrape myself off the

1283
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 2: wall after sliding down, you know, after hearing Billy called

1284
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 2: me in the volume of that band and it was

1285
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 2: just otherworldly. And that's when I realized, I am never

1286
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 2: going to play play like that in my life. There's

1287
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 2: no way I'm ever gonna play like that in my life.

1288
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 2: So don't even try, you know, find your own way

1289
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 2: and h and be happy. So so Carlos and I

1290
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:47,719
Speaker 2: started bringing this kind of music into the band, like live,

1291
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 2: like even on last days at the film more we do.

1292
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: In a silent way, you kill it in a way,

1293
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 1: you do it better than the original. Oh unbelievable.

1294
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 2: And you know, man, it's just a groove too, right,

1295
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 2: Like that's a very simple way for like saying that

1296
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,639
Speaker 2: Carlos is somebody to play a Miles tune, it's actually

1297
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,599
Speaker 2: a Joe zallin All tune, right who started weather Report.

1298
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:20,560
Speaker 2: But you could see the connection we after the third album,

1299
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 2: Carlos and I were so into this stuff that we

1300
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 2: and we were popular enough that we would we would

1301
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 2: hire weather Report to be our opening act on a

1302
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 2: tour so we could just watch them every night, you know,

1303
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 2: one one time with Bobby Womack, so I wanted to

1304
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 2: try to write with them. I love Bibie Womack, I

1305
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 2: love Maybe Staples, right, that kind of singer. So okay,

1306
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 2: So we go in the studio and we're very influenced

1307
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 2: by by you know, Antonio Carlos, Joe Beam and Pharaoh

1308
01:28:56,680 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 2: Sanders and Coltrane and Miles and and we have a

1309
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 2: new bass player now named Dougie Rouch who we met

1310
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 2: in Africa at that concert in Africa, and he was

1311
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 2: kind of genius with odd times and electronics ahead of

1312
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,640
Speaker 2: his time. And we started playing this stuff and we

1313
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 2: did the album and it was very conceptual album too,

1314
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, crickets at the top and the

1315
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 2: saxophone where I did twenty seven edits of Hadley Calluman

1316
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 2: solo to make it like a sound pastiche. And it's

1317
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 2: still a beautiful record. I didn't listen to it until

1318
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 2: the fiftieth anniversary, like in the last year, and I

1319
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 2: gave it a listen all the way through and I

1320
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 2: thought it blew my mind.

1321
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: Bob.

1322
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, man, we really did some good work. So,

1323
01:29:53,120 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 2: but the band hated it. Greg Rawley hates hated it.

1324
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 2: Neil didn't like it. There was a roadie that we

1325
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 2: had named Herbie Herbert. I knew Herbie right, so, and

1326
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,560
Speaker 2: Herbie was like, you know, Herbie was the guy that

1327
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:19,280
Speaker 2: started putting tied eyes on amplifiers and he was, you know,

1328
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 2: a supreme roadie. But he hated it too. He was

1329
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: not only they hated it, they were pissed. Clive Davis

1330
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:31,120
Speaker 2: was pissed. Clive Davis told me and Carlos your committing

1331
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 2: career suicide, you know, And but we loved it. And

1332
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 2: so Herbie was so pissed he said, I'm gonna start

1333
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 2: a band. I'm gonna put a band together based around

1334
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Neil Sean and it's gonna be progressive, but it's going

1335
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 2: to be rock and roll. And Greg Rawley was there

1336
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 2: and that's how Journey started. So I always figure, ah,

1337
01:30:55,640 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 2: I had a big hand in starting Journey, which I

1338
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 2: had a piece of it.

1339
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 1: Let's stop for a second. Tell me about you and

1340
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 1: Carlos getting spiritual teachers.

1341
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 2: I think for him it was dramagloffin, you know, being

1342
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 2: with treacham Noy, which he and also Larry Coriel had

1343
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 2: been a disciple. I think he was thinking, Number one,

1344
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 2: I don't like the lifestyle of like these drugs. It's

1345
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:40,519
Speaker 2: ruining the music, it's ruining this. And two maybe if

1346
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:42,559
Speaker 2: I get a guru like that, I can play like them,

1347
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. For me, I was of

1348
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 2: the same mind. I was reading, already reading spiritual books.

1349
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 2: We were both like into Paramahansa, Yoga Nanda. We were.

1350
01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:58,040
Speaker 2: I mean I always wanted to. I mean, before I

1351
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:00,600
Speaker 2: got kicked out of that school, I wanted to be

1352
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 2: a priest. You know. I was a guy that rode

1353
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:08,560
Speaker 2: my bicycle to mass six am Mass every day, and

1354
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 2: I in my mind, I was going to be a

1355
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:14,280
Speaker 2: servant of God. I was going to be specifically, it

1356
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:19,439
Speaker 2: was going to be a missionary priest. Don't ask me why.

1357
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 2: So later, while being on the road for you know,

1358
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 2: two hundred days, I said, I'm a missionary, you know.

1359
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 2: And but it's the music, it's it's it's okay. So

1360
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 2: I started getting deep into reading all of the the

1361
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 2: Eastern religion books. I was very much into it. And

1362
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:49,479
Speaker 2: and I went with Carlos to see shreepedim Noid for

1363
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 2: the first time in New York. To me, we both

1364
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 2: took a taxi out there and went and sat in

1365
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 2: front of him while he was like on a stage

1366
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:01,600
Speaker 2: and he meditated, and the whole place turned white. It

1367
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 2: was really phenomenal. And and then back in the taxi,

1368
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 2: Carlos was like, Man, I think I found my guy.

1369
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:09,719
Speaker 1: What do you think?

1370
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 2: You know? I think that was really amazing, But I

1371
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 2: don't think i've I don't think he's my guy. So

1372
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 2: I ended up going with a which seemed like a

1373
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 2: different type of spiritual person named Swami Sachanda, who more

1374
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 2: or less brought yoga to the States in a big way.

1375
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 2: And it kept us really clear and clean. You know,

1376
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 2: we were meditating every day, we were eating clean, we

1377
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 2: had aspirations, and we let the other stuff go. And

1378
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 2: it became very clear, with no no question or doubt,

1379
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:56,600
Speaker 2: that we wanted to move in a new direction. And

1380
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:00,120
Speaker 2: that's how that's how all that happened Caravanserai, and and

1381
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 2: that's how the band broke up.

1382
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. What do you feel about

1383
01:34:07,600 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 1: all those spiritual insights fifty years on?

1384
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 2: I think I believe them all feel the same way

1385
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 2: about them now that I did. Then it's just that

1386
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 2: I incorporate them differently. But deep down I think this

1387
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 2: record Drums Compassion is just an extension of that. To me,

1388
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 2: this is an extension of Cara answer II. It's an

1389
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:41,120
Speaker 2: extension of the way that I actually feel about music

1390
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:44,680
Speaker 2: and what the power of music is. And then if

1391
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 2: you're going to talk about the power of music, then

1392
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 2: you have to talk about the power of pulse and rhythm.

1393
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 2: And I've very much always been into sound and frequency

1394
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 2: and vibration. I'm not a hippie, but I'm pretty out there,

1395
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 2: you know so, But I have a I have a

1396
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 2: better sense of humor now than I used to. Uh.

1397
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,479
Speaker 2: I was pretty strict and hard on myself, uh and

1398
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,920
Speaker 2: pretty a snob in a lot of ways. There's a

1399
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,599
Speaker 2: lot of music I didn't like. I didn't like Zeppelin,

1400
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd, come on, you know this? That is more

1401
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 2: like I want players. But now I'm I'm much more

1402
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 2: open and I can accept just the vibe, you know, what,

1403
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 2: the intention, what somebody's doing. And but I still have

1404
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 2: the same hunger to find new music constantly, which I

1405
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 2: find that most of my contemporaries do not, you know,

1406
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 2: I mean I'm I love finding new music. I mean,

1407
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 2: whether it's like the English or Norwegian or Scandinavian jazz scene.

1408
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 2: The younger people who come up, they came up with electronics,

1409
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:07,400
Speaker 2: but they came up liking Coltrane and and Pharaoh Sanders

1410
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 2: and so it makes for really interesting combinations. I just

1411
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 2: discovered this guy the other day. You probably know him.

1412
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 2: His name is Wren. You know, this guy so out there, Bob.

1413
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 2: It's so out there, but it's brilliant. I mean it's

1414
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 2: like he's got this song where he's talking to himself

1415
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 2: like two different like and it's so deep and intense,

1416
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 2: and you got to say you can say like sister

1417
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 2: is fucked up, or you say this is really interesting,

1418
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:46,679
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, so I'm I'm of the mind

1419
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of good music going on out there.

1420
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:52,640
Speaker 2: And I read you all the time talking about, you know,

1421
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 2: how musicians keep barking up the same tree when that

1422
01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 2: tree is like there's no more bark on it, you know.

1423
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:02,640
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm curious to put my music in

1424
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:08,280
Speaker 2: different environments now, with these digital artists or you know,

1425
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 2: immersive situations and and and you know, I mean, I'm

1426
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 2: going to be seventy five years old next week, you know.

1427
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:23,400
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm enjoying making my AI art as

1428
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 2: much as I used to love playing drums. And now

1429
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:30,559
Speaker 2: that's a big area too. That's like, that's like, that's

1430
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:34,000
Speaker 2: as heavy as talking about Trump or Biden. You know,

1431
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:39,680
Speaker 2: you start talking politics, you start talking AI. But I

1432
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 2: see it as a tool and I think we're living

1433
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 2: in exciting times. Scary times, mind you, but but I'm

1434
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 2: excited by you know, what people are doing in music.

1435
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:56,679
Speaker 2: You just you can't look on the charts. You can't

1436
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 2: look here or there. You got to look in different places.

1437
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:03,240
Speaker 1: You know, let's go back and do some clean up work.

1438
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 1: So how does it end with you in Santiana?

1439
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:10,280
Speaker 2: All right? So I had been thinking for quite a

1440
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 2: while that was time to leave. There was a moment

1441
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 2: where we were working on like I guess I called

1442
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:26,000
Speaker 2: the Trilogy of our Carave answer, I I Barboletta, welcome

1443
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:30,559
Speaker 2: care answer, I welcome Barboletta. And you know, it's like

1444
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 2: I thought it was me and Carlos, you know, we're

1445
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 2: taking this thing in a new direction. And then I also,

1446
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:38,800
Speaker 2: you know, was a big fan of Brazilian music and

1447
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 2: brought some Brazilian stuff in there, and I hear Toe

1448
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 2: and Flora you know, are you familiar with them? Yeah?

1449
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 2: So they were in the studio one night. We had

1450
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 2: done a tune and that I had co written called

1451
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 2: Yours is the Light, and Flora Uh was going to

1452
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,479
Speaker 2: sing it. I wrote the lyrics and she sang it,

1453
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,200
Speaker 2: and my playing on it is one of the proudest

1454
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:09,720
Speaker 2: moments of my Santana career. Playing this style of like

1455
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 2: Brazilian music, you know. It was It's kind of like

1456
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:17,640
Speaker 2: incident Nicheborg type of you know, like, oh, this is

1457
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:20,760
Speaker 2: really something I can be proud of. And then at

1458
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:22,760
Speaker 2: the end of it, Carlos looked over at I hear

1459
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 2: two and asked him, do you want to redo the drums?

1460
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:28,599
Speaker 2: You know? And I here two listened to it and said,

1461
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:33,479
Speaker 2: I'm not fucking touching that, you know, and I'm like,

1462
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 2: thank you. I hear too. And that night I realized

1463
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 2: it it wasn't me and Carlos anymore, you know what

1464
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, if he in front of me

1465
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 2: is going to ask somebody to redo my track, it's

1466
01:39:46,479 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 2: like time for me to get out of here. So

1467
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 2: what happened was I was living with my brother Kevin,

1468
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 2: and I had this extreme pain. I had to crawl

1469
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:01,720
Speaker 2: into his bedroom and say, take me to the hospital.

1470
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:06,719
Speaker 2: And I thought I was going to die, and I said,

1471
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:09,719
Speaker 2: if I wake up alive. On the way to the hospital,

1472
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 2: I said, if I wake up alive, I'm gonna have

1473
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 2: to do the things that I've been putting off and

1474
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 2: make some changes. I woke up alive. Turned out to

1475
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:25,200
Speaker 2: be a kidney stone. Wow, and those suckers hurt.

1476
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: Oh, I've had a few, believe me.

1477
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 2: I know, right, geez, only comparable to childbirth. So so

1478
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 2: the band, it was the new band, you know, the

1479
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 2: original guys were gone, a new version of the band.

1480
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:44,519
Speaker 2: We were booked for a tour, but I had woken

1481
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:48,599
Speaker 2: up alive after making a promise to myself. So I

1482
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 2: called the office and I said I'm not going. I'm

1483
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 2: not going to do and they said, well, surely you

1484
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 2: can do the tour. It's booked, and you wouldn't do

1485
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:00,439
Speaker 2: that to us, you know. Carlos came down to me

1486
01:41:00,479 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 2: and I said, I'm sorry. I have to keep the

1487
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 2: promise that I made to myself. I'm sure you can

1488
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 2: find somebody else. I'm not going, and that's why I

1489
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,040
Speaker 2: left the band. So it wasn't on great terms, but

1490
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 2: I was the last guy to leave from the original band.

1491
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:20,240
Speaker 2: But I felt like now it was different. What I

1492
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 2: thought was like the two of us, it wasn't, you know,

1493
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:26,800
Speaker 2: so I mean, we're back in touch now. We talked

1494
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:30,280
Speaker 2: for an hour yesterday, you know, stuff like that, but

1495
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:35,679
Speaker 2: there was you know, that's how I left the band,

1496
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 2: and it was it was really wonderful. I ended up

1497
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 2: going down to Baja California to this health place. It's

1498
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:49,759
Speaker 2: really well known, and I stayed there for a month.

1499
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 2: I brought my drums, I got super healthy, and I

1500
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 2: came back and it just think, okay, where do I

1501
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:56,519
Speaker 2: want to go from here?

1502
01:41:56,640 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, So how did you start Automatic Man or

1503
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:02,880
Speaker 1: how'd you get involved there?

1504
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 2: Automatic Man was okay. So I went to see Pink

1505
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:18,520
Speaker 2: Floyd the Wall at the Cow Palace, I think, and

1506
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 2: and I thought, now, like I wasn't into their records

1507
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 2: or anything like this, but I was always into performance

1508
01:42:26,280 --> 01:42:30,880
Speaker 2: art and I was curious and I wanted to start

1509
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 2: putting something together that now was real groove heavy but

1510
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:43,240
Speaker 2: not Latin but like funk rock, you know, but sophisticated.

1511
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 2: And I wanted it to be conceptual, and so I

1512
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:53,679
Speaker 2: brought a friend of mine up there, young keyboard player

1513
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:58,080
Speaker 2: named Bayete Todd Cochrane, who was like kind of a

1514
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:04,719
Speaker 2: prodigy in the jazz scene, and while watching the Wall,

1515
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 2: I told him like what I'd like to do, and

1516
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:15,599
Speaker 2: we started conceptualizing and putting it together, found Pat Thrall

1517
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 2: and Donnie Harvey and rehearsed every single day at my house,

1518
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 2: like every single day. And then I also at this

1519
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:33,839
Speaker 2: time had pursued Stomia Marshtaw and that was a recording

1520
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:37,639
Speaker 2: that was going to happen through Chris Blackwell in London,

1521
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 2: and so the manager of Automatic Man flew to London

1522
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 2: to meet with Chris Blackwell, and we made it so

1523
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 2: that I could do both projects at the same time

1524
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:53,760
Speaker 2: in London, and we made a brilliant album. And that's

1525
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:58,800
Speaker 2: where I met Chris Kimsey and oh my god, I

1526
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:00,599
Speaker 2: just enjoyed that interview so much.

1527
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know.

1528
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So that's how automatically I think we

1529
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 2: made a brilliant record, a brilliant record, and then they

1530
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 2: wanted to get rid of me for the second record

1531
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:21,200
Speaker 2: and wanted to move to l A. I was like whatever, man,

1532
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:25,719
Speaker 2: I mean, you know so, but we never did anything

1533
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 2: live well, it never came off well live. It was

1534
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:31,920
Speaker 2: always kind of a disaster. But we do have this

1535
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 2: record to be proud of and we're hoping to do

1536
01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:37,360
Speaker 2: a re release with some extras and stuff like that.

1537
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:40,080
Speaker 1: With that record, I bought it because you were on it.

1538
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:42,960
Speaker 1: I certainly played it. How did you end up working

1539
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:46,759
Speaker 1: with Sammy Hagar and Neil Sean in the subsequent decade.

1540
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,639
Speaker 2: Funny story with that one. I was talking to Neil Sean.

1541
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 2: I was living in New York City and and just

1542
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 2: talking like we do, and he's saying, you know, we're

1543
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:05,200
Speaker 2: doing this thing. I'm doing this thing with Sammy Hagar,

1544
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 2: and you know, we're talking about a bass player, Kenny

1545
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 2: Aronson maybe, And I knew Kenny because we'd done some

1546
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 2: stuff in New York. He said, we're just looking for

1547
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 2: a drummer. And you know how it is, you talk

1548
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 2: to your friends and you don't think of them as

1549
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 2: a drummer. It's just your friend. So it was like that.

1550
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 2: It's like, Michael, you know, why don't you do it?

1551
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 2: And so so I did it. It was a real

1552
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 2: real Herbie Herbert project. You know, real tight. Everything was

1553
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 2: clean and you know, really good. But it's not really

1554
01:45:48,240 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 2: my Like I said, I'm not really a rock drummer.

1555
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 2: But I had a good time doing it. The guys

1556
01:45:54,280 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 2: were great. I respected them. Years later, Sammy came out

1557
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:03,560
Speaker 2: with his book, you know, with Joe Selwyn friend, and

1558
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,639
Speaker 2: it was really I was reading it and he said,

1559
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,400
Speaker 2: so we got this drummer, Michael Shreeve. Now Michael's a

1560
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:12,360
Speaker 2: great rhythmic drummer, but he's no rock drummer, you know.

1561
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:16,240
Speaker 2: And I practically split up my coffee because I thought,

1562
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 2: how outrageous the thing to say, you know, and I thought,

1563
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 2: he's absolutely right. You know, he's absolutely right. I mean,

1564
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:27,040
Speaker 2: you gotta be honest with yourself. You know, I'm not

1565
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:30,800
Speaker 2: that kind of rock drummer. I wasn't back then, and

1566
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:32,720
Speaker 2: more than ever, i'm not now. I mean I can

1567
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,599
Speaker 2: kind of get by with that kind of plane. And

1568
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:41,400
Speaker 2: so it was a quick project that took like a

1569
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 2: month to do, you know, live recording, the live shows,

1570
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,920
Speaker 2: filming of the shows, and then it was see you later,

1571
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 2: and that was that.

1572
01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:56,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the drummer, you're in the band. You know,

1573
01:46:56,560 --> 01:47:00,800
Speaker 1: you're not the main songwriter. So after all Automatic Man

1574
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:04,639
Speaker 1: in the go project, are you getting kind of anxious?

1575
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 1: What am I going to do for work? What am

1576
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:07,000
Speaker 1: I going to do for money?

1577
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's always a thing with me. So after Automatic Man,

1578
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 2: let's see what did I do? Okay? We played? We

1579
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 2: played Winterland Automatic Man. And the next day I met

1580
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:28,479
Speaker 2: with Bill Graham, just the two of us in his office,

1581
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:33,040
Speaker 2: and I said, what'd you think? It was a disaster?

1582
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:36,680
Speaker 2: And he said, you really want to know what I think?

1583
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 2: I said, Bill, you know, I know you're not going

1584
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,080
Speaker 2: to pull any words or so he came around the desk,

1585
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:45,880
Speaker 2: sat right next to him and he said, no, it's

1586
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:50,400
Speaker 2: not for you, and it's not going to happen. And

1587
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 2: that day my girlfriend the time I was living with

1588
01:47:55,920 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 2: I rented a boat a lake in Golden Gate Park

1589
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:07,439
Speaker 2: and I said, I think it's time for me to

1590
01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 2: go to New York City. This is what I've always

1591
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:13,640
Speaker 2: wanted to do. And so I asked her if she

1592
01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:16,519
Speaker 2: would come, and so moved to New York City. I

1593
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 2: kind of moved outside of New York City to Rockham

1594
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 2: County to Grand View on Hudson. Really interesting story. So

1595
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:27,839
Speaker 2: I bought a house from a guy named Lee Friedman

1596
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:33,840
Speaker 2: on the Hudson He's in the city. Lee Friedman's the

1597
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:36,280
Speaker 2: guy that ended up doing all the merchandising for Kiss.

1598
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:41,600
Speaker 2: He came from like Betsy Johnson that scene, and we

1599
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:45,200
Speaker 2: became friends. So by the time it was when it

1600
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 2: was time for me to move into the house, I

1601
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 2: went in to move and the family that was there

1602
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,920
Speaker 2: had not moved out. So I get there physically and

1603
01:48:55,920 --> 01:49:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's going on? And the guy that was

1604
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 2: living there was Arimavakian. Are you familiar with Aaron Avakian.

1605
01:49:06,680 --> 01:49:09,759
Speaker 2: They dissed him in the in the in the movie

1606
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:17,519
Speaker 2: about the making of The Godfather, and it wasn't true

1607
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 2: what they were saying about him. But he was so

1608
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:23,879
Speaker 2: upset because his wife had run off with al Pacino,

1609
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 2: and and so you know that could be expected he

1610
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:36,080
Speaker 2: had he he didn't have. He couldn't get together to

1611
01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 2: pack up and move. Later, I became like his daughter

1612
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:44,120
Speaker 2: became my girlfriend. I'm still good friends with his son,

1613
01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:52,000
Speaker 2: guitar player Tristanovakian. So I moved in there and then

1614
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 2: I decided, well, really why I wanted to move to

1615
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,960
Speaker 2: New York City to be in the city, and so

1616
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:03,519
Speaker 2: what I did was I started a band called Novo Combo,

1617
01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 2: and I thought, I'm give myself a shot at this

1618
01:50:08,360 --> 01:50:11,880
Speaker 2: sort of commercial thing again. I met a guy named

1619
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:16,200
Speaker 2: Stephen D's through Bill o'coyn kiss, his manager, and we

1620
01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:19,080
Speaker 2: put a band together and we made a couple of albums,

1621
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:25,599
Speaker 2: some really good stuff, but it ended up falling apart

1622
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 2: as well. And after that experience is when I said,

1623
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:35,519
Speaker 2: no more bands, no more democracy bands. You know, I

1624
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 2: don't want to do anything unless I have final say

1625
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,840
Speaker 2: and it's just what I want. And stop trying to

1626
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:46,639
Speaker 2: make a hit, Stop trying to be beat your Santana stuff,

1627
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:49,280
Speaker 2: Stop trying to show everybody you can still make a hit.

1628
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:53,200
Speaker 2: Just fuck that. You know. You've always been left to center,

1629
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 2: do it and do it hard and be happy doing it.

1630
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:01,559
Speaker 2: So anytime I went from money Bob, it just turned

1631
01:51:01,600 --> 01:51:05,400
Speaker 2: out to be like it didn't work, you know. And

1632
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:10,559
Speaker 2: so ever since then, it's sort of I've just done

1633
01:51:10,680 --> 01:51:12,960
Speaker 2: what I want, what I want to do, you know,

1634
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:17,200
Speaker 2: and learn to live with whatever I have. And the

1635
01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:19,880
Speaker 2: money is not always great, it's up and down, but

1636
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm perfectly happy, you know. So I mean because I

1637
01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 2: feel kind of fulfilled, you know what I mean, I mean,

1638
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:30,680
Speaker 2: I know guys and I talked to them often who

1639
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:36,200
Speaker 2: have big bands and everything. I couldn't even live that way,

1640
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 2: tell you the truth. You know, you've got to play

1641
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 2: all the hits from forty years ago or this, and

1642
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 2: there's so much ego, and it's like, I don't even

1643
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,800
Speaker 2: want to live. You know, I don't even have to

1644
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 2: be a musician if I don't want to, you know,

1645
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:51,519
Speaker 2: So if you're going to do it, do what you

1646
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:56,960
Speaker 2: want to do, because it's kind of sad. I remember

1647
01:51:57,080 --> 01:51:59,960
Speaker 2: at the when we were inducted into the Hall of Fame,

1648
01:52:01,240 --> 01:52:04,120
Speaker 2: there was Fleetwood Mac and it was the Eagles same night.

1649
01:52:06,240 --> 01:52:10,760
Speaker 2: And I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but

1650
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 2: I could see the wives of some of these guys

1651
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:19,320
Speaker 2: from the Eagles and you know, like crying because their

1652
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:23,680
Speaker 2: husband now is getting the recognition that they deserve. It

1653
01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 2: look like roadkilled to me, where some people come out

1654
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:30,799
Speaker 2: on top and they're all shiny, but the people behind

1655
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 2: them that have been through this stuff with them and

1656
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:37,240
Speaker 2: they don't get what they what the stars get.

1657
01:52:38,240 --> 01:52:38,640
Speaker 1: They're like.

1658
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:44,360
Speaker 2: They're ruined and they live in the past. And I

1659
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:48,000
Speaker 2: always learned from that kind of thing. You know, just like,

1660
01:52:48,160 --> 01:52:50,720
Speaker 2: do something else, you know, you don't have to live

1661
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 2: off the fumes of whatever you did in the past.

1662
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:56,559
Speaker 2: Like do something make yourself happy, you know, do something

1663
01:52:56,600 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 2: that you feel good about, you know, and if it's

1664
01:52:59,320 --> 01:53:02,680
Speaker 2: not music, then so what do something else? You know?

1665
01:53:03,360 --> 01:53:08,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what Forrest Gump's mother said, you know,

1666
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:16,280
Speaker 2: life is like a box of chocolates. So that's how

1667
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:20,639
Speaker 2: I'm choosing to do it. And that's why I'm also

1668
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:23,800
Speaker 2: excited about the new possibilities of like places to put

1669
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:29,639
Speaker 2: the music, you know, and I don't know, it makes

1670
01:53:29,680 --> 01:53:31,960
Speaker 2: it pleases me.

1671
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:34,360
Speaker 1: Are there any royalties coming in?

1672
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I still get royalties.

1673
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 1: Enough to live on. Just you know, on the royalties.

1674
01:53:42,479 --> 01:53:43,240
Speaker 2: That's what I'm doing.

1675
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,400
Speaker 1: So you've never had to get a straight job.

1676
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:53,560
Speaker 2: No, I never did. I mean I probably should have,

1677
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:56,599
Speaker 2: but I never did. I mean, I never, I never did.

1678
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:00,240
Speaker 2: So I don't know what I do, you know. I mean,

1679
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:03,160
Speaker 2: if I could do some programming music for your you know,

1680
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 2: one of those companies that do restaurants or this, that

1681
01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:08,600
Speaker 2: and the other, I could do that. I could do that.

1682
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:12,519
Speaker 2: I met with somebody several times. People want to meet

1683
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:14,839
Speaker 2: me and maybe be in their company. But I realized

1684
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:16,599
Speaker 2: they don't really want me to do the job. They

1685
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:20,640
Speaker 2: just want to meet me. You know. It's like I

1686
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 2: could do this, but you don't really You're not really

1687
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:24,240
Speaker 2: interested in me doing it, are you?

1688
01:54:24,520 --> 01:54:24,680
Speaker 1: You know?

1689
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:29,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I I really enjoy like what music does

1690
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:33,080
Speaker 2: in different environments, that kind of thing. So but I

1691
01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:35,960
Speaker 2: don't know some in some ways, I feel like some

1692
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 2: of my better years are yet to come.

1693
01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 1: How often do you play the drums now?

1694
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 2: Not so much. I'm in the studio every day. But

1695
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:54,520
Speaker 2: I have a fib and I have I had a

1696
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:59,040
Speaker 2: heart attack in December, but not a big heart attack

1697
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:03,480
Speaker 2: because my all my arteries are clear, you know. But

1698
01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:06,960
Speaker 2: I've still never been the same. But I've recently got

1699
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,840
Speaker 2: really fascinated with what contemporary snare drummers are doing, and

1700
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:13,640
Speaker 2: that made me think, Okay, I'm gonna get back into

1701
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:16,120
Speaker 2: snare drum. I'm gonna go back to basics and do

1702
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:19,280
Speaker 2: you know, but I mean, I'm sitting here in the

1703
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:22,680
Speaker 2: studio with drums, and I'll do a lot of stuff

1704
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 2: electronically and then the acoustic drums will be the last

1705
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:30,360
Speaker 2: thing to go on instead of the first thing like

1706
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:33,520
Speaker 2: it used to be. So It's more like I'm interested

1707
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:37,440
Speaker 2: in creating musical environments, and then how do acoustic drums

1708
01:55:37,480 --> 01:55:38,080
Speaker 2: fit into that?

1709
01:55:38,920 --> 01:55:41,720
Speaker 1: What are the interesting thing that people are doing with

1710
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:42,760
Speaker 1: snare drums today?

1711
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:48,840
Speaker 2: Well, they're writing snare drum solos that also involve other

1712
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 2: songs they're playing to nobody can hear it, but they're

1713
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:56,000
Speaker 2: playing to a click and with other sounds coming out.

1714
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:59,200
Speaker 2: You know. It's and also just things they do with

1715
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:03,360
Speaker 2: the sticks, and it's like, whoa, I just discovered this

1716
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,880
Speaker 2: last week, several of them, and I thought this is

1717
01:56:07,120 --> 01:56:09,600
Speaker 2: so cool, you know, so let me look into this

1718
01:56:09,760 --> 01:56:14,800
Speaker 2: and see just this area. You know. Another thing I'm

1719
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 2: thinking is I was just talking with Don Gunn here today.

1720
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 2: Is I mean even I'd like kind of music I'm

1721
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,320
Speaker 2: making today. Look, I wouldn't mind having some of the

1722
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:28,200
Speaker 2: some of the you know, some other drummers playing on

1723
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:34,640
Speaker 2: it than myself, you know, like what's that band, what's

1724
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 2: the Bandyan Chang plays with? What they called? Uh yeah, Anyway,

1725
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:44,040
Speaker 2: there's this drummer named Ian Chang, which is so cool

1726
01:56:45,480 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 2: and I love and I love the electronics stuff, and

1727
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:52,840
Speaker 2: I've been doing that since the seventies as well, so

1728
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:56,280
Speaker 2: I still find like it's exciting time to make music.

1729
01:56:56,360 --> 01:56:58,040
Speaker 2: If I don't live in the past.

1730
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:02,880
Speaker 1: You too many people are living in the past. Man.

1731
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:04,880
Speaker 1: I could talk to you forever, Michael. There's so many

1732
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 1: things about San Francisco and about drummers. But I think

1733
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:12,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna cut it off here now. Thanks so much

1734
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:13,280
Speaker 1: for talking to my audience.

1735
01:57:13,880 --> 01:57:16,040
Speaker 2: No, it's been a pleasure. It's been it's a pleasure

1736
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:19,360
Speaker 2: to meet you after all these years, because of course

1737
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:22,200
Speaker 2: we all feel like we know you because you you're

1738
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:25,560
Speaker 2: so honest about what you think and and don't think.

1739
01:57:25,680 --> 01:57:27,040
Speaker 2: I love it. Keep doing it.

1740
01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:28,879
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Michael.

1741
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:29,760
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1742
01:57:30,640 --> 01:57:33,520
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left Sex