1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:26,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin Sergeant Tui Wright told me about the guy with 2 00:00:26,516 --> 00:00:30,096 Speaker 1: the fort in the spring of 2021. It was about 3 00:00:30,136 --> 00:00:32,196 Speaker 1: to be my birthday, and I felt like I'd just 4 00:00:32,236 --> 00:00:36,356 Speaker 1: gotten the gift of a lifetime. I texted Haley right away. 5 00:00:37,016 --> 00:00:40,536 Speaker 1: I told her the cops had suspected foul play. They 6 00:00:40,616 --> 00:00:45,906 Speaker 1: had investigated someone. There was a person of interest. His 7 00:00:45,966 --> 00:00:54,296 Speaker 1: name was Richard Wayne Forsberg. Some Googling pulled up an 8 00:00:54,356 --> 00:00:58,116 Speaker 1: obituary from a funeral home in Westlake Village, a valley 9 00:00:58,156 --> 00:01:02,286 Speaker 1: community not far from Montanito. Forsberg had died a year 10 00:01:02,326 --> 00:01:06,366 Speaker 1: and a half earlier, at the age of 64. The 11 00:01:06,426 --> 00:01:09,806 Speaker 1: picture on the website wasn't a middle-aged man, though. It 12 00:01:09,846 --> 00:01:15,356 Speaker 1: was a strapping, blonde, California kid, circa 1973. Blue eyes, 13 00:01:15,586 --> 00:01:18,986 Speaker 1: bull neck, stuffed into a brown suit, probably for a 14 00:01:19,006 --> 00:01:22,786 Speaker 1: high school photo. The guest book was filled with comments 15 00:01:22,866 --> 00:01:26,286 Speaker 1: from his neighborhood friends and former classmates at Agoura High. 16 00:01:27,166 --> 00:01:32,416 Speaker 1: Guys revered him. Quote, Wow, Rick, we had so many adventures. Yahoo! 17 00:01:33,616 --> 00:01:38,276 Speaker 1: Women adored him. Quote, Ricky was a talented athlete, handsome 18 00:01:38,316 --> 00:01:40,656 Speaker 1: as hell, always the life of the party, and just 19 00:01:40,696 --> 00:01:44,106 Speaker 1: a wonderful guy. One of the loves of my early years. 20 00:01:45,776 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 1: This wasn't the profile I'd been expecting. He sounded like 21 00:01:49,276 --> 00:01:51,456 Speaker 1: a bit of a charmer, a bit of a hellraiser, 22 00:01:51,696 --> 00:01:56,076 Speaker 1: definitely a bro, but not, on the surface anyway, a monster. 23 00:01:57,016 --> 00:02:01,246 Speaker 1: In any case, he wasn't reviled, rejected, or an outcast 24 00:02:01,326 --> 00:02:04,986 Speaker 1: of his former world. He was a golden child. 25 00:02:05,006 --> 00:02:12,526 Speaker 2: I live here now, right down the street. I've lived 26 00:02:12,586 --> 00:02:14,806 Speaker 2: in Montanito all my life. 27 00:02:16,226 --> 00:02:19,296 Speaker 1: Six weeks after Sergeant Wright told me about Rick, I 28 00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:21,896 Speaker 1: saw the video that Raven Masterson had made of the 29 00:02:21,956 --> 00:02:22,976 Speaker 1: Montanito lifer. 30 00:02:24,236 --> 00:02:27,936 Speaker 2: But, uh, so I just, I heard this, and a 31 00:02:28,416 --> 00:02:31,766 Speaker 2: couple days later, you know, I hear that she's missing, 32 00:02:31,846 --> 00:02:36,386 Speaker 2: and that, you know, all this stuff's going on. So 33 00:02:37,646 --> 00:02:43,216 Speaker 2: I'm up at my spot, like, two days later. I've 34 00:02:43,316 --> 00:02:45,316 Speaker 2: seen a lot of vultures in my life. I lived 35 00:02:45,376 --> 00:02:48,776 Speaker 2: out here 50 years. I've never seen a hundred vultures. 36 00:02:49,936 --> 00:02:54,816 Speaker 2: Just swooned. I've seen like a thousand of them. I've 37 00:02:54,856 --> 00:02:56,116 Speaker 2: never seen that many. 38 00:02:57,176 --> 00:02:58,056 Speaker 3: When did you see this? 39 00:02:58,076 --> 00:03:02,296 Speaker 2: I saw this like two days after she was missing 40 00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:04,376 Speaker 2: or maybe four days after she was missing. 41 00:03:06,016 --> 00:03:08,996 Speaker 1: Raven titled her video The Fall Guy because she thought 42 00:03:09,036 --> 00:03:12,276 Speaker 1: he was a scapegoat. She doesn't say his name. But 43 00:03:12,336 --> 00:03:15,416 Speaker 1: I recognized him, though he'd aged and faded. 44 00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:22,566 Speaker 2: It was Rick Forsberg. I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is 45 00:03:22,646 --> 00:03:23,466 Speaker 2: Lost Hills. 46 00:03:40,456 --> 00:03:44,996 Speaker 4: Episode 8, Rick Trouble. 47 00:04:12,346 --> 00:04:14,766 Speaker 1: As soon as we got Rick's name, we started hunting 48 00:04:14,806 --> 00:04:19,066 Speaker 1: for information about him. Who was he? We found a 49 00:04:19,086 --> 00:04:23,386 Speaker 1: Facebook group called Once Upon a Time in Montanito. Skimming 50 00:04:23,406 --> 00:04:26,806 Speaker 1: through it was like reading an old-timey California fairy tale, 51 00:04:27,426 --> 00:04:31,846 Speaker 1: full of images of picnics, parties, motorcycle rallies, horseback rides, 52 00:04:32,106 --> 00:04:37,386 Speaker 1: and sunstruck days at Surfrider Beach. And Coors beer. A 53 00:04:37,446 --> 00:04:41,686 Speaker 1: lot of Coors beer. We found pictures of Rick back 54 00:04:41,706 --> 00:04:44,536 Speaker 1: in the day, in bell bottoms or short shorts, and 55 00:04:44,676 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: tearing around a track on his motorcycle. One commenter on 56 00:04:48,456 --> 00:04:53,516 Speaker 1: the page calls him the Montanito Nick Nolte. And in general, 57 00:04:53,636 --> 00:04:56,926 Speaker 1: the page seemed like an informal memorial to the community's boys, 58 00:04:57,666 --> 00:05:01,086 Speaker 1: boys who played rough, partied hard, and died before their time. 59 00:05:02,446 --> 00:05:07,346 Speaker 1: They called themselves the Montanito Boys, and Rick was their ringleader. 60 00:05:08,326 --> 00:05:09,546 Speaker 1: He's tall, he's handsome. 61 00:05:10,146 --> 00:05:14,116 Speaker 5: He's got a really good vibe, bright blue eyes, tan, 62 00:05:14,156 --> 00:05:18,776 Speaker 5: just gorgeous. He was just beautiful to me, absolutely beautiful. 63 00:05:19,996 --> 00:05:23,406 Speaker 1: This is Cherie Amick. After many failed attempts to set 64 00:05:23,436 --> 00:05:26,386 Speaker 1: up an interview, we drop by her house one day unannounced. 65 00:05:27,006 --> 00:05:29,826 Speaker 1: And to our surprise, she invites us into her backyard. 66 00:05:30,666 --> 00:05:33,126 Speaker 1: It's the house she grew up in and the yard 67 00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:33,966 Speaker 1: she got married in. 68 00:05:35,616 --> 00:05:36,776 Speaker 6: Rick did. 69 00:05:37,466 --> 00:05:41,366 Speaker 5: Everything, like for my wedding, I had here with my dad. 70 00:05:42,066 --> 00:05:45,536 Speaker 5: He was always down to help, and he knew what 71 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:46,096 Speaker 5: he was doing. 72 00:05:47,196 --> 00:05:49,656 Speaker 1: Her parents were half a generation older than Rick and 73 00:05:49,716 --> 00:05:52,456 Speaker 1: extremely close to him, and Rick was like a big 74 00:05:52,516 --> 00:05:55,236 Speaker 1: brother to her. He lived with them off and on, 75 00:05:55,516 --> 00:05:56,536 Speaker 1: and she worshipped him. 76 00:05:57,896 --> 00:06:04,926 Speaker 5: And Rick was always just loud, and I'm loud. He's loud, 77 00:06:05,016 --> 00:06:08,476 Speaker 5: and he loves you. He just loves you and he 78 00:06:08,516 --> 00:06:09,156 Speaker 5: loves life. 79 00:06:10,776 --> 00:06:11,856 Speaker 6: Excuse me, that's my phone. 80 00:06:11,956 --> 00:06:12,556 Speaker 5: It never rings. 81 00:06:14,256 --> 00:06:17,736 Speaker 1: It's someone named Art Davis on the phone. We've actually 82 00:06:17,776 --> 00:06:21,486 Speaker 1: been trying to reach Art for months, too. His stepdad 83 00:06:21,516 --> 00:06:25,606 Speaker 1: and Rick's dad owned an HVAC business with Cherie's grandfather. 84 00:06:26,266 --> 00:06:28,706 Speaker 1: And Art and Rick were childhood best friends. 85 00:06:30,126 --> 00:06:30,846 Speaker 5: Artie, come over. 86 00:06:31,246 --> 00:06:34,836 Speaker 4: Just come back. Just come home. Okay. home. 87 00:06:34,856 --> 00:06:36,296 Speaker 5: See, isn't that fucking crazy? 88 00:06:37,436 --> 00:06:38,896 Speaker 3: Something's never changed! 89 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:40,406 Speaker 1: Oh my god! 90 00:06:40,426 --> 00:06:41,806 Speaker 7: We're family! 91 00:06:41,816 --> 00:06:43,966 Speaker 5: We're family! 92 00:06:43,986 --> 00:06:48,306 Speaker 1: A few minutes later, Art walks into the yard and 93 00:06:48,366 --> 00:06:51,726 Speaker 1: joins us on the patio. He's lanky and weathered, a 94 00:06:51,766 --> 00:06:55,126 Speaker 1: former basketball player who's been working as a roofer for decades. 95 00:06:56,046 --> 00:06:58,606 Speaker 1: And that's how we end up doing an impromptu interview 96 00:06:58,766 --> 00:07:01,926 Speaker 1: with two of Rick's most loyal longtime friends. 97 00:07:03,746 --> 00:07:09,526 Speaker 8: Okay, I met Rick in 1963. Just shut up and 98 00:07:09,566 --> 00:07:10,286 Speaker 8: show her. 99 00:07:10,406 --> 00:07:11,596 Speaker 2: No, just come on. 100 00:07:11,626 --> 00:07:14,706 Speaker 8: Just building up a little story here, right? Okay, look 101 00:07:14,726 --> 00:07:17,246 Speaker 8: at this picture. This is Rick and his sister. 102 00:07:18,006 --> 00:07:20,366 Speaker 1: Art shows us a picture on his phone of two 103 00:07:20,426 --> 00:07:23,446 Speaker 1: little white blonde kids back in the days when his 104 00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:27,366 Speaker 1: family and the Forsbergs were neighbors in Malibu Meadows, a 105 00:07:27,406 --> 00:07:32,026 Speaker 1: private area in lower Montanito. Art says whatever was going on, 106 00:07:32,426 --> 00:07:34,246 Speaker 1: Rick was always at the center of it. 107 00:07:35,206 --> 00:07:38,966 Speaker 8: Rick He was known, good, bad, or otherwise, he was known. 108 00:07:39,506 --> 00:07:42,366 Speaker 8: He could just be sitting in his dad's boat in 109 00:07:42,386 --> 00:07:46,536 Speaker 8: the garage with that hot engine in the back, man, 110 00:07:46,576 --> 00:07:48,576 Speaker 8: and all the kids in the neighborhood, we'd all go 111 00:07:48,636 --> 00:07:51,856 Speaker 8: down there and we'd sit around. You know, Rick, what's 112 00:07:51,936 --> 00:07:52,456 Speaker 8: Rick doing? 113 00:07:52,856 --> 00:07:53,856 Speaker 7: Yeah, where's Rick? 114 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:55,776 Speaker 8: You know, Rick was always the guy. 115 00:07:57,936 --> 00:08:02,276 Speaker 1: Rick was an adrenaline junkie. Dirt bikes, motorcycles, cars, boats. 116 00:08:02,896 --> 00:08:05,076 Speaker 1: If it could go, he wanted it to go faster. 117 00:08:05,976 --> 00:08:08,756 Speaker 1: His family spent time at Lake Havasu, and he became 118 00:08:08,796 --> 00:08:12,776 Speaker 1: an exceptional water skier. He had no fear and no 119 00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:13,736 Speaker 1: internal monitor. 120 00:08:15,066 --> 00:08:18,726 Speaker 8: He could barefoot water ski, and he circle raced. And 121 00:08:18,766 --> 00:08:24,306 Speaker 8: those guys, the boats that he was behind, it's the 122 00:08:24,346 --> 00:08:27,786 Speaker 8: scariest thing that I ever did. Just being an observer 123 00:08:28,906 --> 00:08:30,806 Speaker 8: for one of the races that they were in, you know, 124 00:08:30,826 --> 00:08:33,336 Speaker 8: like you get like 15 boats going into one turn. 125 00:08:34,096 --> 00:08:37,236 Speaker 8: And the wake behind the boats is so high, you 126 00:08:37,256 --> 00:08:40,486 Speaker 8: can't even see the skier. And the skis that they're 127 00:08:40,546 --> 00:08:43,586 Speaker 8: in are so thick, so they can go right through 128 00:08:43,646 --> 00:08:46,466 Speaker 8: that stuff. You know, and they were just like thumbs up. 129 00:08:47,726 --> 00:08:48,446 Speaker 8: Thumbs up means. 130 00:08:48,466 --> 00:08:49,306 Speaker 5: Faster. 131 00:08:49,386 --> 00:08:51,066 Speaker 2: Faster. That means go fast. 132 00:08:53,386 --> 00:08:55,956 Speaker 1: Art and Cherie hold a candle for the heroic side 133 00:08:55,976 --> 00:08:58,676 Speaker 1: of Rick. But I wondered what some of the other 134 00:08:58,736 --> 00:09:02,806 Speaker 1: surviving Montanito boys would say. So Haley and I head 135 00:09:02,866 --> 00:09:06,126 Speaker 1: to an assisted living facility in Long Beach, an hour 136 00:09:06,146 --> 00:09:07,816 Speaker 1: and a half down the coast from Malibu. 137 00:09:08,956 --> 00:09:13,776 Speaker 3: My name is William Ingleshaw, and we had oatmeal and 138 00:09:14,816 --> 00:09:18,296 Speaker 3: fried egg and sausage and biscuit for breakfast. 139 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:21,756 Speaker 1: We're set up in the employee break room, where there's 140 00:09:21,796 --> 00:09:25,726 Speaker 1: a handyman repairing the ceiling. Bill, that's what he goes by. 141 00:09:26,306 --> 00:09:27,506 Speaker 1: New Rick, his whole life. 142 00:09:28,426 --> 00:09:29,786 Speaker 5: My dad called him Tricky Ricky. 143 00:09:32,656 --> 00:09:34,236 Speaker 2: Which is kind of a good nickname for him. 144 00:09:35,886 --> 00:09:38,386 Speaker 1: Bill and his brothers were part of the Montanito Boys. 145 00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:43,346 Speaker 1: And were they, in addition to being like Rick, like 146 00:09:43,406 --> 00:09:46,086 Speaker 1: handsome and athletic and the ladies like them, were they 147 00:09:46,106 --> 00:09:47,186 Speaker 1: also kind of bad boys? 148 00:09:48,326 --> 00:09:51,786 Speaker 7: You know, I wouldn't say real bad boys, but yeah, 149 00:09:52,566 --> 00:09:54,526 Speaker 7: into drugs and whatever. 150 00:09:54,546 --> 00:09:59,436 Speaker 3: You know, we all kind of dallied with drugs, though. 151 00:10:00,876 --> 00:10:01,896 Speaker 1: It was the times, right? 152 00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:01,996 Speaker 7: Yeah. 153 00:10:03,736 --> 00:10:06,586 Speaker 1: The Montanito boys spent their days playing in the creek 154 00:10:06,786 --> 00:10:09,986 Speaker 1: and exploring the canyons and riding motorcycles. on a course 155 00:10:10,026 --> 00:10:13,086 Speaker 1: they built at the Triangle. That was a patch of 156 00:10:13,226 --> 00:10:17,476 Speaker 1: undeveloped land formed by Paiuma, Cold Canyon, and Wood Bluff Roads. 157 00:10:21,716 --> 00:10:24,496 Speaker 7: My first memory of Rick was when I was probably 158 00:10:24,516 --> 00:10:27,356 Speaker 7: about eight years old. I was down the street from 159 00:10:27,396 --> 00:10:31,206 Speaker 7: my parents' house, and I He ran up to my 160 00:10:31,246 --> 00:10:33,566 Speaker 7: bike and grabbed my bike and stole my bike. 161 00:10:34,906 --> 00:10:38,776 Speaker 1: This is Jay Engelschall. He's one of Bill's brothers, a skinny, 162 00:10:38,896 --> 00:10:42,916 Speaker 1: self-effacing guy who's clearly still living hard. We met him 163 00:10:42,936 --> 00:10:45,036 Speaker 1: in the parking lot of a sporting goods store near 164 00:10:45,096 --> 00:10:47,936 Speaker 1: his brother's nursing home and sat in my car to talk. 165 00:10:48,796 --> 00:10:51,516 Speaker 1: Jay remembers Rick as rowdy and fun when they were younger. 166 00:10:52,336 --> 00:10:55,556 Speaker 1: One time, after Rick crashed his Corvair, he was fixing 167 00:10:55,596 --> 00:10:57,156 Speaker 1: it up in the Engelschall's driveway. 168 00:10:58,356 --> 00:11:00,816 Speaker 7: He was working on the fenders and stuff, but us 169 00:11:00,836 --> 00:11:03,176 Speaker 7: being kids, we jumped in the front of it, like 170 00:11:03,236 --> 00:11:07,266 Speaker 7: five of us. And he starts it up, and he 171 00:11:07,296 --> 00:11:10,746 Speaker 7: took us around the circle down below my parents' house. 172 00:11:10,766 --> 00:11:14,486 Speaker 7: There's a big circle with gravel and dirt roads. He 173 00:11:14,526 --> 00:11:19,506 Speaker 7: was pretty much just sideways around every turn, gravel shooting 174 00:11:19,646 --> 00:11:23,756 Speaker 7: up and dust. And all the neighbors would be coming out, 175 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:26,976 Speaker 7: shaking their finger at him. Dangerous, we got kids in 176 00:11:26,996 --> 00:11:31,246 Speaker 7: the front. But it was a lot of fun. There 177 00:11:31,266 --> 00:11:33,986 Speaker 7: was quite a few times he gave us rides like that, 178 00:11:34,386 --> 00:11:41,056 Speaker 7: just either crying, laughing, or peeing in our pants. Yeah, 179 00:11:41,176 --> 00:11:43,416 Speaker 7: it was pretty insane, pretty crazy. 180 00:11:44,916 --> 00:11:47,796 Speaker 1: But it was not all fun and games. The Montanito 181 00:11:47,816 --> 00:11:52,256 Speaker 1: boys had enemies, the Malibu cops, who hunted the boys 182 00:11:52,456 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 1: from the air. 183 00:11:54,236 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 7: They were pretty, very. 184 00:11:58,056 --> 00:12:00,576 Speaker 7: What would you say? Aggressive with the helicopter. I mean, 185 00:12:00,636 --> 00:12:02,576 Speaker 7: I remember, I thought it was a little too much 186 00:12:02,836 --> 00:12:05,936 Speaker 7: at the time, chasing them with helicopters and dirt bikes. 187 00:12:07,156 --> 00:12:10,016 Speaker 1: As they got older, the trouble got deeper. There was 188 00:12:10,216 --> 00:12:12,816 Speaker 1: one wild party that has become part of the community's 189 00:12:12,896 --> 00:12:16,606 Speaker 1: collective memory. Not because it was so crazy. There were 190 00:12:16,616 --> 00:12:19,466 Speaker 1: a lot of wild parties back then. Because of what 191 00:12:19,526 --> 00:12:21,126 Speaker 1: happened after the cops showed up. 192 00:12:22,446 --> 00:12:27,076 Speaker 7: They broke it up, and it Told us, you know, 193 00:12:27,096 --> 00:12:29,486 Speaker 7: wrap it up in the night or whatever, but there 194 00:12:29,516 --> 00:12:31,406 Speaker 7: was still a bunch of beer left in the keg, 195 00:12:31,506 --> 00:12:36,026 Speaker 7: so the older brothers took the keg to Lost Canyon. 196 00:12:37,726 --> 00:12:39,546 Speaker 1: That was one of the Montanito boys' hideouts. 197 00:12:40,786 --> 00:12:42,786 Speaker 7: When the cops got there, I guess a couple of 198 00:12:42,816 --> 00:12:47,076 Speaker 7: the guys just ran off in the hills and, you know, 199 00:12:47,156 --> 00:12:51,376 Speaker 7: basically taunting them, you know, flipping them off or whatever, 200 00:12:51,396 --> 00:12:54,366 Speaker 7: or yelling back at them, you know, leave us alone. 201 00:12:55,416 --> 00:12:57,976 Speaker 1: The cops pursued them, and they ended up attacking a 202 00:12:58,036 --> 00:12:59,076 Speaker 1: kid called Glenn. 203 00:13:00,416 --> 00:13:03,306 Speaker 7: They beat him with the flashlight, and it almost cut 204 00:13:03,326 --> 00:13:07,046 Speaker 7: his ear off. But he had stitches everywhere, I mean, 205 00:13:07,146 --> 00:13:08,886 Speaker 7: all over his head, his forehead and all that. 206 00:13:10,086 --> 00:13:13,456 Speaker 1: Jay says the cops were always focused on Rick. It 207 00:13:13,496 --> 00:13:15,376 Speaker 1: was pretty obvious that he was a problem. 208 00:13:16,416 --> 00:13:20,696 Speaker 7: Rick was probably one of the worst kids in that neighborhood, 209 00:13:20,896 --> 00:13:23,536 Speaker 7: you know, with them. So he was well known in 210 00:13:23,916 --> 00:13:24,996 Speaker 7: that regard. 211 00:13:26,376 --> 00:13:28,996 Speaker 1: And one of the worst beatings the Malibu cops ever 212 00:13:29,036 --> 00:13:33,066 Speaker 1: doled out was to none other than Rick Forsberg. Some 213 00:13:33,086 --> 00:13:35,726 Speaker 1: people said it changed him forever. 214 00:13:39,346 --> 00:13:51,336 Speaker 4: Okay. Okay. 215 00:13:52,636 --> 00:13:56,516 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Neil Samuelson, author of Malibu Off the Grid, 216 00:13:57,036 --> 00:14:00,856 Speaker 3: a book about the Malibu area and all that has 217 00:14:01,176 --> 00:14:05,096 Speaker 3: transpired here in the years past. How's that? 218 00:14:06,696 --> 00:14:10,036 Speaker 1: After Rick died in 2019, his family put up the 219 00:14:10,096 --> 00:14:13,396 Speaker 1: obituary site. That's how we found his old friend Neil. 220 00:14:13,976 --> 00:14:16,256 Speaker 1: In the comments section, there was a plug for his book, 221 00:14:16,816 --> 00:14:20,376 Speaker 1: a self-published memoir of growing up on the margins of Malibu. 222 00:14:21,816 --> 00:14:23,876 Speaker 3: It was the best place in the world to grow up. 223 00:14:24,456 --> 00:14:27,396 Speaker 3: And eventually, you know, it all kind of caught up 224 00:14:27,436 --> 00:14:30,736 Speaker 3: to us. You know, some of us were real successful 225 00:14:30,856 --> 00:14:34,296 Speaker 3: and some of us stayed around here and we were 226 00:14:34,396 --> 00:14:37,576 Speaker 3: caught in this, you know, little world that we couldn't 227 00:14:37,596 --> 00:14:41,376 Speaker 3: get out of. The parents were pretty well off and, 228 00:14:42,176 --> 00:14:44,736 Speaker 3: you know, although Rick never lived off his folks, he 229 00:14:44,776 --> 00:14:50,266 Speaker 3: was bound and determined to make it on his own. So, 230 00:14:50,326 --> 00:14:53,006 Speaker 3: I mean, he was, You know, I mean, he was 231 00:14:53,046 --> 00:14:55,786 Speaker 3: a good guy, but the alcohol kind of brought him 232 00:14:55,826 --> 00:14:56,726 Speaker 3: down a little bit. 233 00:14:58,446 --> 00:15:01,106 Speaker 1: Neil was several years younger than Rick, and he lived 234 00:15:01,146 --> 00:15:04,086 Speaker 1: in a different neighborhood. But they hung out together, and 235 00:15:04,146 --> 00:15:07,346 Speaker 1: he knows a lot about Rick's history. He's even given 236 00:15:07,426 --> 00:15:09,126 Speaker 1: Rick a special pseudonym in the book. 237 00:15:10,286 --> 00:15:12,196 Speaker 3: Oh, Trouble? Rick Trouble? 238 00:15:13,476 --> 00:15:16,756 Speaker 1: A lot of Rick's personality, Neil says, can be explained 239 00:15:16,816 --> 00:15:18,876 Speaker 1: by what happened to him as a kid at the 240 00:15:18,916 --> 00:15:22,616 Speaker 1: hands of the Malibu cops. He says the Malibu cops 241 00:15:22,656 --> 00:15:27,576 Speaker 1: were notorious and vindictive, and they absolutely despised the spoiled 242 00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:28,586 Speaker 1: kids in the area. 243 00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:32,826 Speaker 3: They were the roughest of the bunch. You know, you 244 00:15:32,866 --> 00:15:36,826 Speaker 3: didn't want to mess with the Malibu sheriffs, especially us punk, 245 00:15:37,306 --> 00:15:41,266 Speaker 3: you know, rich kids. You know, we were like, pray 246 00:15:41,326 --> 00:15:45,506 Speaker 3: for them almost. A lot of kids got beaten up 247 00:15:45,566 --> 00:15:50,296 Speaker 3: by those guys. But, you know, if you run... You've 248 00:15:50,326 --> 00:15:51,886 Speaker 3: got to pay the consequences. 249 00:15:53,266 --> 00:15:57,066 Speaker 1: Rick would always run. But one night in the spring 250 00:15:57,086 --> 00:15:59,386 Speaker 1: of 1977, he got caught. 251 00:16:00,426 --> 00:16:05,156 Speaker 3: This was my grad night, and I was supposed to 252 00:16:05,196 --> 00:16:09,056 Speaker 3: be graduating, and, you know, I'm messing around with the 253 00:16:09,176 --> 00:16:09,856 Speaker 3: older kids. 254 00:16:11,356 --> 00:16:13,516 Speaker 1: They ended up at the old missile site at the 255 00:16:13,566 --> 00:16:16,986 Speaker 1: top of Puyuma Road, where, obviously, they weren't supposed to be. 256 00:16:17,726 --> 00:16:20,566 Speaker 1: The nuclear missiles were gone, but it was government property. 257 00:16:21,786 --> 00:16:24,706 Speaker 3: We, you know, found a spot and we're up there 258 00:16:24,766 --> 00:16:27,886 Speaker 3: hanging out. And, you know, we had a little pod, 259 00:16:28,006 --> 00:16:31,556 Speaker 3: but nothing, you know, big. And then all of a sudden, boom, 260 00:16:31,616 --> 00:16:34,616 Speaker 3: out of the blue, there's cops there, you know. So 261 00:16:35,236 --> 00:16:39,976 Speaker 3: two of the guys ran and then Rick tried to 262 00:16:40,056 --> 00:16:43,546 Speaker 3: run and he was the last guy to run. So 263 00:16:43,586 --> 00:16:47,416 Speaker 3: they ran him down. And he tried to get away, 264 00:16:47,486 --> 00:16:52,166 Speaker 3: and they cornered him, and the guy just really hammered him. 265 00:16:52,426 --> 00:16:57,386 Speaker 3: They really just beat him to a pulp. And they 266 00:16:57,566 --> 00:16:59,406 Speaker 3: dragged him up to the police car. 267 00:17:00,746 --> 00:17:03,126 Speaker 1: Neil's watching all this from the back of a cop car. 268 00:17:03,706 --> 00:17:06,096 Speaker 1: He's been arrested and is about to be taken to 269 00:17:06,126 --> 00:17:09,776 Speaker 1: the place the kids call the Malibu Hilton, a facetious 270 00:17:09,856 --> 00:17:11,196 Speaker 1: nickname for the local jail. 271 00:17:12,426 --> 00:17:17,056 Speaker 3: We watched Rick just get clubbed. The guy just kept 272 00:17:17,236 --> 00:17:20,796 Speaker 3: beating on him, hitting his legs. Finally, he crumbled to 273 00:17:20,836 --> 00:17:25,136 Speaker 3: the ground and that's when they took off and they 274 00:17:25,156 --> 00:17:28,126 Speaker 3: wouldn't allow us to see the rest of it. So 275 00:17:28,406 --> 00:17:31,386 Speaker 3: they took us down to jail and we didn't know 276 00:17:31,426 --> 00:17:35,886 Speaker 3: what happened to Rick. And four or five hours went by. 277 00:17:37,286 --> 00:17:44,456 Speaker 3: Rick came back to the jail and he was, his 278 00:17:44,496 --> 00:17:47,476 Speaker 3: head was shaved and he had stitches all over his 279 00:17:47,516 --> 00:17:53,456 Speaker 3: head and he was very defiant and just like very mad. 280 00:17:54,796 --> 00:17:58,116 Speaker 1: After the beating, Rick's golden boy glamour began to tarnish. 281 00:17:58,816 --> 00:18:01,896 Speaker 1: He got wilder and meaner and his relationship with law 282 00:18:01,916 --> 00:18:06,416 Speaker 1: enforcement grew more combative. In the years that followed, Rick 283 00:18:06,476 --> 00:18:09,166 Speaker 1: was in and out of police custody and did time 284 00:18:09,266 --> 00:18:10,086 Speaker 1: in state prisons. 285 00:18:11,476 --> 00:18:15,256 Speaker 3: Rick was always one of those guys that was going 286 00:18:15,296 --> 00:18:16,936 Speaker 3: to conquer. 287 00:18:16,576 --> 00:18:17,476 Speaker 2: The world, man. 288 00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:21,616 Speaker 3: He had it in him, you know. And little by little, 289 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:27,186 Speaker 3: you know, he kept getting in these situations where he would, 290 00:18:27,856 --> 00:18:32,686 Speaker 3: you know, run from the police and something would happen. 291 00:18:32,766 --> 00:18:36,146 Speaker 3: I mean, I could think of five different incidents just 292 00:18:36,306 --> 00:18:39,246 Speaker 3: off the top of my head of where he would 293 00:18:39,306 --> 00:18:42,136 Speaker 3: run and have police contact you. 294 00:18:42,086 --> 00:18:45,436 Speaker 1: Know and he would fight back too wouldn't. 295 00:18:45,256 --> 00:18:48,996 Speaker 3: He one time he did yeah and that's the one 296 00:18:49,036 --> 00:18:52,916 Speaker 3: that got him in the most trouble he ended up 297 00:18:52,956 --> 00:18:56,736 Speaker 3: hurting a couple of police officers I think it was 298 00:18:57,156 --> 00:19:01,776 Speaker 3: the way the story goes but you know he he 299 00:19:01,856 --> 00:19:05,896 Speaker 3: was kind of a mystery after a couple of years 300 00:19:05,916 --> 00:19:09,756 Speaker 3: you'd see him he'd tell us his story and uh 301 00:19:11,126 --> 00:19:14,286 Speaker 3: He was living all over the place most of the time. 302 00:19:14,746 --> 00:19:17,236 Speaker 3: He lived a very suffered life. 303 00:19:21,056 --> 00:19:24,776 Speaker 1: Rick's family continued living in Montanito. His father died a 304 00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:26,976 Speaker 1: few years ago, but his mother and one of his 305 00:19:27,056 --> 00:19:31,056 Speaker 1: two sisters are still there today, respected and beloved members 306 00:19:31,096 --> 00:19:35,326 Speaker 1: of the community. As an adult, Rick lived in various 307 00:19:35,386 --> 00:19:38,286 Speaker 1: places around Southern California and spent some time in Hawaii. 308 00:19:38,806 --> 00:19:41,406 Speaker 1: but he always gravitated back to the area he was from. 309 00:19:41,426 --> 00:19:46,336 Speaker 1: And in July of 2009, when he was released from 310 00:19:46,376 --> 00:19:49,556 Speaker 1: prison for the last time, he came back to Montanito. 311 00:19:50,836 --> 00:19:56,266 Speaker 1: This was two months before Mitrice disappeared. Friends say by 312 00:19:56,306 --> 00:19:58,806 Speaker 1: the time Rick returned from prison, he was no longer 313 00:19:58,826 --> 00:20:00,856 Speaker 1: in prison. welcome at the house he grew up in. 314 00:20:02,376 --> 00:20:04,916 Speaker 1: But Rick had been building forts and growing pots since 315 00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:07,536 Speaker 1: he was a kid. He was at home in the woods, 316 00:20:08,176 --> 00:20:10,376 Speaker 1: so he built himself a hideout at the base of 317 00:20:10,416 --> 00:20:14,076 Speaker 1: a large tree in the woods off Paiuma Road, and 318 00:20:14,116 --> 00:20:16,886 Speaker 1: he retreated there to hang out and tend his plants 319 00:20:17,036 --> 00:20:21,756 Speaker 1: in peace. Neil says he thinks he knows where Rick's 320 00:20:21,796 --> 00:20:24,416 Speaker 1: spot was. He remembers going there a few times. 321 00:20:25,686 --> 00:20:29,026 Speaker 3: Okay, so you guys follow me, and I'll drive real slow. 322 00:20:30,026 --> 00:20:32,806 Speaker 1: We follow him up Paiuma Road, past the entrance to 323 00:20:32,826 --> 00:20:35,886 Speaker 1: the porn ranch, and around another bend or two. We 324 00:20:35,926 --> 00:20:37,926 Speaker 1: park in a turnout and get out of the cars. 325 00:20:38,886 --> 00:20:41,286 Speaker 1: He points down into the dense brush below. 326 00:20:42,386 --> 00:20:45,956 Speaker 3: Well, this is his spot that I knew, where he'd 327 00:20:45,996 --> 00:20:46,996 Speaker 3: grow a couple plants. 328 00:20:47,776 --> 00:20:48,336 Speaker 2: It's right here. 329 00:20:48,676 --> 00:20:51,496 Speaker 1: Was he a physically fit guy? Because getting down there 330 00:20:51,536 --> 00:20:52,636 Speaker 1: looks like a giant pain. 331 00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:53,416 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 332 00:20:53,496 --> 00:20:57,136 Speaker 3: Well, like I said, yeah, it's rough walking down there. 333 00:20:57,976 --> 00:21:00,636 Speaker 3: That's why it's so secluded. That's why it's a perfect 334 00:21:00,696 --> 00:21:03,896 Speaker 3: spot for somebody to hide out in. I'm sure there 335 00:21:03,916 --> 00:21:06,776 Speaker 3: was a little trail here 10 years ago, though, right? 336 00:21:08,036 --> 00:21:10,476 Speaker 1: Before leaving, I want to run one more thing by him. 337 00:21:10,496 --> 00:21:13,516 Speaker 1: I just want to verify that the fort Sergeant Wright 338 00:21:13,556 --> 00:21:18,066 Speaker 1: told me about is the same one Neil visited. So 339 00:21:18,246 --> 00:21:21,266 Speaker 1: what I was going to tell you is that I 340 00:21:21,326 --> 00:21:25,576 Speaker 1: heard that there was like a tip that, oh, my God, 341 00:21:25,636 --> 00:21:30,496 Speaker 1: this guy has a little structure. And there's somebody had 342 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:34,276 Speaker 1: seen it and said, there's a rib cage in there. 343 00:21:34,856 --> 00:21:37,846 Speaker 1: And they came and looked and it was a deer 344 00:21:37,866 --> 00:21:38,026 Speaker 1: rib cage. 345 00:21:40,796 --> 00:21:43,476 Speaker 3: It might have been Rick. It might have eaten deer, 346 00:21:43,536 --> 00:21:47,726 Speaker 3: you know. He kind of went into, you know, wild mode, 347 00:21:47,776 --> 00:21:48,706 Speaker 3: I think, you know. 348 00:21:53,986 --> 00:21:56,466 Speaker 1: A few days after Neil shows me the general area 349 00:21:56,526 --> 00:21:59,766 Speaker 1: of Rick's spot, I meet up with Sergeant Wright. He's 350 00:21:59,806 --> 00:22:03,236 Speaker 1: got something for me. It's the coordinates for Rick's fort. 351 00:22:04,136 --> 00:22:07,476 Speaker 1: I punch them into Google Maps. There, off to the 352 00:22:07,516 --> 00:22:11,036 Speaker 1: side of Paiuma Road, is a skeletal tree, right in 353 00:22:11,076 --> 00:22:13,906 Speaker 1: the area Neil had showed me. And there's a trail 354 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:17,546 Speaker 1: running by it, a section of the Backbone Trail. I 355 00:22:17,586 --> 00:22:20,646 Speaker 1: decide to go check it out. I'm thinking maybe I'll 356 00:22:20,686 --> 00:22:28,386 Speaker 1: find something, some remnant of Rick. I pick my way 357 00:22:28,446 --> 00:22:33,026 Speaker 1: through overgrown, dry brush. The brush forms tunnels, and you 358 00:22:33,066 --> 00:22:34,666 Speaker 1: have to crouch low to get through. 359 00:22:39,146 --> 00:22:42,966 Speaker 6: Is that an access trail? Where does that one go from? 360 00:22:44,286 --> 00:22:46,786 Speaker 1: On the ground, I spot a plastic water bottle and 361 00:22:46,826 --> 00:22:49,906 Speaker 1: some black irrigation tubes and other items that look like 362 00:22:50,026 --> 00:22:51,376 Speaker 1: detritus from growing pot. 363 00:22:51,396 --> 00:22:56,016 Speaker 6: I remember the thing that I was told is that 364 00:22:56,076 --> 00:23:00,496 Speaker 6: there were four trees that in not a perfect square 365 00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:03,236 Speaker 6: had been kind of bound together and tarped over. 366 00:23:05,116 --> 00:23:08,146 Speaker 1: I find the big dead tree. Pushed up against a 367 00:23:08,206 --> 00:23:12,406 Speaker 1: smaller tree nearby is a decaying mattress. The fabric's caving 368 00:23:12,506 --> 00:23:15,146 Speaker 1: in and torn. It looks like a home for rats. 369 00:23:15,646 --> 00:23:20,696 Speaker 1: Nothing else. That's all that was left of Rick's old fort. 370 00:23:23,836 --> 00:23:26,616 Speaker 1: But I've learned the fort wasn't the only place Rick 371 00:23:26,656 --> 00:23:29,626 Speaker 1: was hanging out. He was down in the neighborhood, too, 372 00:23:30,326 --> 00:23:34,386 Speaker 1: partying with old friends. And back in 2009, when my 373 00:23:34,426 --> 00:23:38,486 Speaker 1: trees went missing... Some of them immediately thought of Rick. 374 00:23:52,806 --> 00:23:56,316 Speaker 1: Laura and Ray Robbins, Cherie Amick's parents, were like a 375 00:23:56,396 --> 00:24:00,176 Speaker 1: surrogate family for Rick. Over the years, the Robbins would 376 00:24:00,216 --> 00:24:02,136 Speaker 1: be a refuge for him when he wore out his 377 00:24:02,176 --> 00:24:05,646 Speaker 1: welcome at home. And in 2009, after he got out 378 00:24:05,686 --> 00:24:08,366 Speaker 1: of prison, when he wasn't at his fort, he was 379 00:24:08,406 --> 00:24:11,406 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time there. He'd use the shower 380 00:24:11,546 --> 00:24:14,006 Speaker 1: or sleep on the couch, and sometimes he'd live in 381 00:24:14,046 --> 00:24:17,416 Speaker 1: the basement. Rick's parents would give the Robins money for 382 00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:21,936 Speaker 1: his room and board. Rick was middle-aged, 54 years old 383 00:24:22,076 --> 00:24:24,836 Speaker 1: in the summer of 2009. But he was kind of 384 00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:27,826 Speaker 1: like a kid who refused to grow up. And even 385 00:24:27,866 --> 00:24:29,926 Speaker 1: though he had the Robbins house to stay at, he 386 00:24:29,966 --> 00:24:32,886 Speaker 1: generally preferred to be up at his spot. He'd walk 387 00:24:33,126 --> 00:24:36,186 Speaker 1: or ride his motorcycle up Paiuma Road at dusk and 388 00:24:36,226 --> 00:24:39,986 Speaker 1: head back down to the neighborhood at dawn. Back on 389 00:24:40,026 --> 00:24:43,226 Speaker 1: the patio with Cherie and Art, I ask about Rick's spot. 390 00:24:45,006 --> 00:24:46,326 Speaker 1: Did you ever go up to the fort? 391 00:24:46,476 --> 00:24:46,976 Speaker 5: I did not. 392 00:24:48,136 --> 00:24:49,116 Speaker 1: Not your scene up there? 393 00:24:49,536 --> 00:24:52,816 Speaker 5: You know, I didn't want to go. I didn't want 394 00:24:52,836 --> 00:24:55,656 Speaker 5: to know. I didn't want to know. 395 00:24:55,676 --> 00:24:55,816 Speaker 4: Um.... 396 00:24:57,646 --> 00:24:58,906 Speaker 5: He was so proud of it too. 397 00:24:58,926 --> 00:24:59,906 Speaker 3: It was hilarious. 398 00:24:59,946 --> 00:25:02,206 Speaker 5: He took my ex-husband up there and he went up 399 00:25:02,266 --> 00:25:04,466 Speaker 5: there and my. 400 00:25:04,406 --> 00:25:06,586 Speaker 9: Ex was like, oh my God, like, it's so awesome. 401 00:25:06,606 --> 00:25:08,286 Speaker 5: He's got it all set up like a tent and 402 00:25:08,656 --> 00:25:09,016 Speaker 5: it's all rad. 403 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:11,176 Speaker 9: And he's got a chair and a couch and the 404 00:25:11,236 --> 00:25:12,556 Speaker 9: light and this and the that. 405 00:25:12,576 --> 00:25:15,076 Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my God, why is he doing that? 406 00:25:15,976 --> 00:25:17,976 Speaker 5: He doesn't need to do that, but he was growing 407 00:25:17,996 --> 00:25:20,626 Speaker 5: pot up there. So, you know, he was protecting his plants. 408 00:25:20,986 --> 00:25:23,476 Speaker 5: And at that time it was still illegal to You know, 409 00:25:23,536 --> 00:25:26,236 Speaker 5: so I was like, oh, my God, you're growing plants. Oh, 410 00:25:26,256 --> 00:25:28,336 Speaker 5: you're going to get busted, my mom. 411 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:30,876 Speaker 3: Be careful, Rick. 412 00:25:31,716 --> 00:25:32,496 Speaker 5: Rick, be careful. 413 00:25:34,636 --> 00:25:37,816 Speaker 1: Rick had been drinking and smoking pot and using PCP 414 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:41,146 Speaker 1: since the 70s. He'd also done a lot of coke 415 00:25:41,226 --> 00:25:45,286 Speaker 1: and heroin. And by the 2000s, he'd discovered meth. It 416 00:25:45,326 --> 00:25:47,026 Speaker 1: had a very noticeable effect on him. 417 00:25:48,506 --> 00:25:51,506 Speaker 5: That was always something that was being passed around, for sure. 418 00:25:53,866 --> 00:25:56,186 Speaker 5: And he wasn't, you know, he was the type that 419 00:25:56,286 --> 00:26:00,686 Speaker 5: would disappear. You know, he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't Rick. 420 00:26:00,766 --> 00:26:02,526 Speaker 9: He wasn't out in the open right up in your 421 00:26:02,566 --> 00:26:03,886 Speaker 9: face and everything else. 422 00:26:03,786 --> 00:26:06,086 Speaker 5: And having a good time. You know, he was like, 423 00:26:06,106 --> 00:26:09,586 Speaker 5: are they here? You know, he's all paranoid and freaking 424 00:26:09,606 --> 00:26:10,266 Speaker 5: peeking out the door. 425 00:26:10,286 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 9: I'm like, oh my God. 426 00:26:11,526 --> 00:26:12,086 Speaker 4: Okay. 427 00:26:12,196 --> 00:26:12,856 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. 428 00:26:12,856 --> 00:26:13,516 Speaker 5: I'll see you later. 429 00:26:15,056 --> 00:26:18,336 Speaker 1: Even as he aged and people around him changed their ways, 430 00:26:19,056 --> 00:26:21,516 Speaker 1: Rick didn't seem capable of toning it down. 431 00:26:23,136 --> 00:26:27,596 Speaker 5: You either died or got sober. You know, he did go. 432 00:26:27,616 --> 00:26:34,846 Speaker 1: What was driving that insatiable desire to go to oblivion? 433 00:26:36,286 --> 00:26:37,066 Speaker 6: I work in mental health. 434 00:26:37,106 --> 00:26:42,516 Speaker 5: Well, not currently. And I really wanted to ask him, like, why? 435 00:26:42,536 --> 00:26:44,096 Speaker 3: Like, why are you like this? 436 00:26:44,216 --> 00:26:48,056 Speaker 5: Why are you so like, you know, running or getting 437 00:26:48,096 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 5: in trouble or hurting yourself or, you know, continuous like 438 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:51,836 Speaker 5: doing the same thing over and over again? 439 00:26:53,256 --> 00:26:56,726 Speaker 1: On the day of Mitrice's disappearance, Rick told the Robins 440 00:26:56,796 --> 00:27:00,046 Speaker 1: that he'd heard her at the tennis courthouse. He says 441 00:27:00,106 --> 00:27:03,186 Speaker 1: this in the video, and Laura Robins confirmed it to me. 442 00:27:04,146 --> 00:27:06,046 Speaker 1: When I spoke to her on the phone, though, she 443 00:27:06,146 --> 00:27:09,826 Speaker 1: emphasized that her goal was to protect Rick. I don't 444 00:27:09,866 --> 00:27:12,486 Speaker 1: want anything said other than that he was the best 445 00:27:12,526 --> 00:27:15,726 Speaker 1: guy in the world, she said. He's not your man, sweetheart. 446 00:27:16,196 --> 00:27:21,016 Speaker 1: He's not. But Cherie says Laura was deeply concerned that 447 00:27:21,076 --> 00:27:24,826 Speaker 1: Rick was involved with Mitrice's death. and she confronted him 448 00:27:24,976 --> 00:27:25,896 Speaker 1: with her suspicions. 449 00:27:27,116 --> 00:27:30,596 Speaker 5: I was here when my mom was like, Rick, do 450 00:27:30,636 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 5: you know anything about that girl? He was sitting right there. 451 00:27:34,076 --> 00:27:34,796 Speaker 9: We had a couch there. 452 00:27:34,836 --> 00:27:38,946 Speaker 5: I remember the whole thing. Do you know anything about 453 00:27:38,966 --> 00:27:41,006 Speaker 5: that girl, Rick? And he's like, what girl? 454 00:27:41,806 --> 00:27:42,806 Speaker 9: Laura, what girl? 455 00:27:42,986 --> 00:27:45,126 Speaker 5: You know, he had that raspy voice. 456 00:27:46,326 --> 00:27:48,106 Speaker 9: She's like, the girl, the girl, you know, the girl 457 00:27:48,126 --> 00:27:52,376 Speaker 9: that fucking, the girl that's dead, the girl that they found. 458 00:27:53,416 --> 00:27:56,116 Speaker 9: And he goes, and he looked at her like, are 459 00:27:56,176 --> 00:27:57,296 Speaker 9: you fucking serious? 460 00:27:58,856 --> 00:28:01,976 Speaker 1: Cherie didn't think Rick would lie to her mom or 461 00:28:02,016 --> 00:28:02,336 Speaker 1: to her. 462 00:28:03,616 --> 00:28:06,536 Speaker 5: Would he tell me? Yeah, I think he would. I 463 00:28:06,556 --> 00:28:09,776 Speaker 5: think he would. He just trusted me that way. 464 00:28:11,306 --> 00:28:13,466 Speaker 1: And if he had lied, she would have seen right 465 00:28:13,506 --> 00:28:15,606 Speaker 1: through him. He was guileless. 466 00:28:16,986 --> 00:28:17,886 Speaker 5: And I know. 467 00:28:18,486 --> 00:28:20,826 Speaker 1: I mean, I have a really good sense of intuition. 468 00:28:20,846 --> 00:28:23,006 Speaker 5: And if I thought Rick did that, I would know. 469 00:28:23,556 --> 00:28:24,356 Speaker 5: I would be able to see it. 470 00:28:25,196 --> 00:28:25,946 Speaker 1: He couldn't hide it. 471 00:28:26,156 --> 00:28:27,136 Speaker 9: He was like a little kid. 472 00:28:27,156 --> 00:28:32,956 Speaker 5: He couldn't hide. He wasn't a liar. He wasn't a liar, 473 00:28:33,576 --> 00:28:36,146 Speaker 5: and he wasn't a killer. He never killed anybody, to 474 00:28:36,646 --> 00:28:37,206 Speaker 5: my knowledge. 475 00:28:39,906 --> 00:28:43,326 Speaker 1: In the video, Rick proposes that Mitrice fell down in 476 00:28:43,366 --> 00:28:48,206 Speaker 1: a ditch. Mitrice didn't use hard drugs, just pot, but 477 00:28:48,246 --> 00:28:50,596 Speaker 1: she also wasn't in a normal state of mind on 478 00:28:50,636 --> 00:28:54,266 Speaker 1: September 17, 2009. so she might have been more open 479 00:28:54,306 --> 00:28:57,676 Speaker 1: to trying something. Or she could have been tricked into 480 00:28:57,736 --> 00:28:59,976 Speaker 1: accepting what she thought was a joint when it may 481 00:28:59,996 --> 00:29:02,556 Speaker 1: have been laced with meth or cocaine or something else. 482 00:29:04,356 --> 00:29:08,376 Speaker 1: The toxicology from her autopsy was inconclusive, so it's impossible 483 00:29:08,416 --> 00:29:10,286 Speaker 1: to say if drugs were in her system at the 484 00:29:10,326 --> 00:29:13,866 Speaker 1: time of her death. But Cherie says she just can't 485 00:29:13,946 --> 00:29:16,286 Speaker 1: picture Rick seeking out Mitrice's company. 486 00:29:16,986 --> 00:29:19,966 Speaker 5: And I'm just being completely honest. I don't want to 487 00:29:20,006 --> 00:29:22,356 Speaker 5: say that he was, you know, racist, but I don't 488 00:29:22,386 --> 00:29:25,786 Speaker 5: think that he would have any interest in, even especially 489 00:29:25,846 --> 00:29:28,626 Speaker 5: on a tennis court at night. He's already like, Rick 490 00:29:28,786 --> 00:29:30,106 Speaker 5: would have, nah. 491 00:29:31,806 --> 00:29:34,046 Speaker 1: It takes me a second to believe what I'm hearing. 492 00:29:35,606 --> 00:29:38,066 Speaker 1: You think he wouldn't be attracted to a black woman? 493 00:29:38,126 --> 00:29:39,966 Speaker 1: Like that wouldn't, she was too young for him, first 494 00:29:39,986 --> 00:29:42,506 Speaker 1: of all. Let's just say that. But that is not, 495 00:29:43,066 --> 00:29:44,726 Speaker 1: many people have not been stopped by that. 496 00:29:45,786 --> 00:29:47,546 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, for the most part. 497 00:29:48,906 --> 00:29:49,066 Speaker 8: No. 498 00:29:49,196 --> 00:29:52,956 Speaker 1: She says, it's not the age. Matrice wasn't his type. 499 00:29:54,116 --> 00:29:55,936 Speaker 1: She turns to art for confirmation. 500 00:29:55,956 --> 00:29:58,236 Speaker 4: Think about it. 501 00:30:00,436 --> 00:30:01,336 Speaker 3: Being a black woman. 502 00:30:01,456 --> 00:30:02,036 Speaker 2: Think about that. 503 00:30:04,156 --> 00:30:08,176 Speaker 5: Do you see Rick going to have an engagement time 504 00:30:08,216 --> 00:30:10,436 Speaker 5: and get wasted with a Black girl at 4.30 in 505 00:30:10,456 --> 00:30:14,016 Speaker 5: the morning on Paiuma, coming down when she's yelling and 506 00:30:14,166 --> 00:30:16,486 Speaker 5: somewhat disoriented, or, you know, he sees there's an issue, 507 00:30:16,496 --> 00:30:18,626 Speaker 5: would he say, jump on the back of my bike, 508 00:30:18,646 --> 00:30:22,746 Speaker 5: let's go get high, I'll help you? No, I don't 509 00:30:22,766 --> 00:30:23,126 Speaker 5: think you can do. 510 00:30:24,886 --> 00:30:25,186 Speaker 4: That. I don't. 511 00:30:28,126 --> 00:30:32,706 Speaker 1: Mitrice was a stunningly beautiful 24-year-old dancer. Rick was a 512 00:30:32,706 --> 00:30:37,976 Speaker 1: 54-year-old ex-con meth addict. The idea that his racism could 513 00:30:38,016 --> 00:30:41,476 Speaker 1: be exculpatory, proof that he wouldn't want to get involved 514 00:30:41,516 --> 00:30:46,816 Speaker 1: with her, it's not just deeply offensive, it's illogical. To 515 00:30:46,856 --> 00:30:50,646 Speaker 1: my mind, racism could easily explain a crime against Mitrice, 516 00:30:51,146 --> 00:30:56,486 Speaker 1: not make it inconceivable. Her freedom, her life, it might 517 00:30:56,506 --> 00:31:02,206 Speaker 1: have seemed expendable. Also, I'm wondering how much Cherie really 518 00:31:02,266 --> 00:31:05,616 Speaker 1: knows about what Rick was into. I'm thinking of the 519 00:31:05,676 --> 00:31:09,356 Speaker 1: Raven video. He does not seem at all put off 520 00:31:09,436 --> 00:31:12,946 Speaker 1: by or uncomfortable with the attractive young black woman he's 521 00:31:12,986 --> 00:31:17,886 Speaker 1: being interviewed by. Quite the contrary. He invites her up 522 00:31:17,926 --> 00:31:23,306 Speaker 1: to his fort. Cherie's clearly troubled by this whole conversation. 523 00:31:24,066 --> 00:31:27,356 Speaker 1: She loves Rick, but she also feels for Mitrice. 524 00:31:28,936 --> 00:31:32,196 Speaker 5: How do we figure out what happened to Mitrice? How 525 00:31:32,216 --> 00:31:33,096 Speaker 5: do we figure this out? 526 00:31:34,496 --> 00:31:36,736 Speaker 1: I feel like her brain is kind of melting down. 527 00:31:37,496 --> 00:31:40,796 Speaker 1: She just can't believe Rick would have killed someone. She 528 00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:45,516 Speaker 1: addresses Art again. Rick wasn't that brutal or that calculating. 529 00:31:46,516 --> 00:31:46,896 Speaker 1: Was he? 530 00:31:48,516 --> 00:31:50,456 Speaker 5: Do you think that he would have the ability to 531 00:31:50,496 --> 00:31:54,756 Speaker 5: keep that as a lie? Do you think, really think 532 00:31:54,796 --> 00:31:55,376 Speaker 5: you've known him. 533 00:31:55,336 --> 00:31:56,156 Speaker 9: Your entire life? 534 00:31:56,236 --> 00:31:59,336 Speaker 5: Could Ricky get away with that? 535 00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:03,456 Speaker 8: I have no idea about that. 536 00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:09,606 Speaker 1: We turn off the mic and are packing up to 537 00:32:09,666 --> 00:32:12,986 Speaker 1: leave when Cherie looks up at the cloudless blue sky 538 00:32:13,226 --> 00:32:17,386 Speaker 1: and starts to freak out. There are vultures, dozens of 539 00:32:17,446 --> 00:32:21,126 Speaker 1: them spiraling overhead. I grab my phone to record a video. 540 00:32:22,226 --> 00:32:24,326 Speaker 5: Oh, my God. You guys. 541 00:32:24,346 --> 00:32:26,106 Speaker 4: No, Artie, come here. 542 00:32:26,186 --> 00:32:27,706 Speaker 3: This is not normal. 543 00:32:29,746 --> 00:32:31,066 Speaker 6: Oh, my God, Artie. 544 00:32:31,146 --> 00:32:31,806 Speaker 5: Look how many. 545 00:32:32,826 --> 00:32:33,866 Speaker 3: There's like 30 of them. 546 00:32:36,316 --> 00:32:41,346 Speaker 4: That is so crazy. I haven't seen. 547 00:32:41,206 --> 00:32:42,126 Speaker 3: Them in so long. 548 00:32:43,926 --> 00:32:47,506 Speaker 1: She thinks the vultures are a sign. A sign of Rick. 549 00:32:53,746 --> 00:32:57,386 Speaker 1: Rick's childhood friend, Jay Engelshall, says he and Rick were 550 00:32:57,406 --> 00:33:01,576 Speaker 1: together a lot around the time of Mitrice's disappearance. But 551 00:33:01,696 --> 00:33:04,576 Speaker 1: Rick didn't tell him about hearing Mitrice that morning at 552 00:33:04,596 --> 00:33:08,376 Speaker 1: the tennis courthouse. This was the biggest thing that had 553 00:33:08,436 --> 00:33:13,796 Speaker 1: happened in Montanito, maybe ever. A woman going missing, cops everywhere, 554 00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:19,136 Speaker 1: helicopter searches, dogs, flyers. So why didn't Rick tell him 555 00:33:19,356 --> 00:33:20,956 Speaker 1: about his encounter with Mitrice? 556 00:33:22,316 --> 00:33:25,916 Speaker 7: It's just, I never heard of any of that happening. 557 00:33:26,036 --> 00:33:29,496 Speaker 7: And it's like, wow. I never heard him talk like 558 00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:32,776 Speaker 7: that before about it. And I think I would have, 559 00:33:33,056 --> 00:33:33,476 Speaker 7: you know. 560 00:33:33,496 --> 00:33:33,876 Speaker 6: It's weird. 561 00:33:35,366 --> 00:33:37,766 Speaker 1: Jay says he and Rick would hang out at the fort. 562 00:33:39,046 --> 00:33:41,136 Speaker 7: That's one of the reasons why I guess he built 563 00:33:41,156 --> 00:33:45,236 Speaker 7: the fort, so he'd have somewhere to go. And when 564 00:33:45,256 --> 00:33:46,836 Speaker 7: he did, he was sort of like, you know, a 565 00:33:48,156 --> 00:33:51,346 Speaker 7: macho mountain man in a way. He was proud of it, 566 00:33:51,676 --> 00:33:53,916 Speaker 7: trying to make the best of it, I guess. But 567 00:33:55,816 --> 00:34:00,096 Speaker 7: he was also just, I don't know, it seemed like 568 00:34:01,826 --> 00:34:03,786 Speaker 7: he was doing his own thing and doing it and 569 00:34:04,496 --> 00:34:05,796 Speaker 7: whichever way he wanted to. 570 00:34:07,676 --> 00:34:10,376 Speaker 1: Rick's fort and the remains spot in Dark Canyon were 571 00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:13,376 Speaker 1: very close to each other as the crow flies. All 572 00:34:13,396 --> 00:34:15,776 Speaker 1: you'd have to do is cross Puyuma Road and find 573 00:34:15,816 --> 00:34:18,576 Speaker 1: a place to drop over the side. Not that it 574 00:34:18,596 --> 00:34:21,656 Speaker 1: would be easy. You'd be trespassing, and it would be 575 00:34:21,736 --> 00:34:25,726 Speaker 1: steep and treacherous. But Jay's sure Rick would have known 576 00:34:25,796 --> 00:34:28,606 Speaker 1: how to get in there. He tells me Rick had 577 00:34:28,626 --> 00:34:31,006 Speaker 1: been growing pot in Dark Canyon since the 70s. 578 00:34:31,186 --> 00:34:33,226 Speaker 6: You know, he knew. 579 00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:39,716 Speaker 7: Almost every trail up there, probably. And places where there 580 00:34:39,756 --> 00:34:41,196 Speaker 7: were no trails, I'm sure. 581 00:34:42,736 --> 00:34:45,156 Speaker 1: He can only think of one reason for Mitrice to 582 00:34:45,196 --> 00:34:46,136 Speaker 1: be in Dark Canyon. 583 00:34:47,896 --> 00:34:49,816 Speaker 7: I don't think she'd have any interest to go up 584 00:34:49,896 --> 00:34:50,796 Speaker 7: in there at all. 585 00:34:51,896 --> 00:34:52,616 Speaker 8: Why would you? 586 00:34:53,496 --> 00:35:01,376 Speaker 7: Somebody's looming her off, you know. Or she's unconscious. 587 00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:02,036 Speaker 4: I don't know. 588 00:35:03,756 --> 00:35:06,106 Speaker 1: And he can really only think of one person who 589 00:35:06,126 --> 00:35:17,476 Speaker 1: would have taken her there. Two days after our meeting 590 00:35:17,506 --> 00:35:19,856 Speaker 1: in the parking lot of the sporting goods store, I 591 00:35:19,876 --> 00:35:22,936 Speaker 1: get a call from Jay. It's a Saturday night, and 592 00:35:22,976 --> 00:35:26,056 Speaker 1: I'm at a friend's art show. I go outside so 593 00:35:26,096 --> 00:35:29,476 Speaker 1: I can hear him better. His voice comes frail and 594 00:35:29,576 --> 00:35:31,976 Speaker 1: reedy through the phone that's pressed up against my ear. 595 00:35:33,206 --> 00:35:36,226 Speaker 1: Jay says he just remembered something, and he wanted to 596 00:35:36,266 --> 00:35:39,276 Speaker 1: tell me because he thinks it might be important. He 597 00:35:39,356 --> 00:35:43,096 Speaker 1: says around the time of Mitrice's disappearance, Rick had started 598 00:35:43,156 --> 00:35:48,376 Speaker 1: growing weed in Dark Canyon again. Haley and I are 599 00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:53,226 Speaker 1: learning Rick wasn't just a charming rogue. He wasn't just 600 00:35:53,526 --> 00:35:57,886 Speaker 1: a danger to himself. He had a lengthy criminal history 601 00:35:58,226 --> 00:36:01,206 Speaker 1: going back to the 80s, and as we start sifting 602 00:36:01,246 --> 00:36:06,156 Speaker 1: through it, we notice a clear trajectory. Increasingly reckless behavior 603 00:36:06,196 --> 00:36:10,656 Speaker 1: with drugs and alcohol, punctuated by increasingly violent attacks on women. 604 00:36:12,116 --> 00:36:16,826 Speaker 1: He was extremely, incorrigibly abusive. And the women in his 605 00:36:16,886 --> 00:36:27,546 Speaker 1: life bore the brunt of his rage. Next time on 606 00:36:27,586 --> 00:36:28,206 Speaker 1: Lost Hills. 607 00:36:29,486 --> 00:36:33,356 Speaker 2: He used to beat her When they'd argue, he'd punch her. 608 00:36:33,416 --> 00:36:36,026 Speaker 2: She'd take off running. Sometimes she'd run to my house 609 00:36:36,086 --> 00:36:36,546 Speaker 2: and hide. 610 00:36:36,566 --> 00:36:41,456 Speaker 7: And he'd come over and I'd stand up to him. 611 00:36:41,526 --> 00:36:43,566 Speaker 5: He'd kick my ass, but I'd stand up to him. 612 00:36:45,486 --> 00:36:55,336 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 9, Fearful Witness. Lost Hills is 613 00:36:55,396 --> 00:36:58,966 Speaker 1: written and hosted by me, Dana Goodyear. It was reported 614 00:36:59,026 --> 00:37:02,766 Speaker 1: by me and Haley Fox, our senior producer. The show 615 00:37:02,806 --> 00:37:06,486 Speaker 1: was created by me and Ben Adair. Lost Hills is 616 00:37:06,526 --> 00:37:15,186 Speaker 1: a production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to 617 00:37:15,206 --> 00:37:18,176 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus and you can binge the whole season right 618 00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:22,256 Speaker 1: now ad-free. Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hills show 619 00:37:22,296 --> 00:37:27,196 Speaker 1: page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm slash plus.