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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Sergeant Towey Wright told me about the guy with

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Speaker 1: the fort in the spring of twenty twenty one. It

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Speaker 1: was about to be my birthday, and I felt like

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Speaker 1: I'd just gotten the gift of a lifetime. I texted

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Speaker 1: Haley right away. I told her the cops had suspected

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Speaker 1: foul play. They had investigated someone there was a person

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Speaker 1: of interest. His name was Richard Wayne Forsburg. Some googling

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Speaker 1: pulled up an obituary from a funeral home in Westlake Village,

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Speaker 1: a valley community not far from Montanito. Forsburg had died

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Speaker 1: a year and a half earlier, at the age of

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Speaker 1: sixty four. The picture on the website wasn't a middle

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Speaker 1: aged man, though, it was a strapping, blonde California kid

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Speaker 1: circa nineteen seventy three, blue eyes, bullneck, stuffed into a

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Speaker 1: brown suit, probably for a high school photo. The guest

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Speaker 1: book was filled with comments from his neighborhood friends and

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Speaker 1: former classmates at a Gurra High. Guys revered him. Quote Wow,

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Speaker 1: rick we had so many adventures. Yahoo. Women adored him.

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Speaker 1: Quote Ricky was a talented athlete, handsome as hell, always

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Speaker 1: the life of the party, and just a wonderful guy,

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Speaker 1: one of the loves of my early years. This wasn't

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Speaker 1: the profile I'd been expecting. He sounded like a bit

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Speaker 1: of a charmer, a bit of a hell raiser, definitely

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Speaker 1: a bro, but not on the surface anyway a monster

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Speaker 1: in any case. He wasn't reviled, rejected, or an outcast

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Speaker 1: of his former world. He was a golden child.

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Speaker 2: I don't care now, yeah, right down the street. I've

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Speaker 2: lived in Montana all my life.

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Speaker 1: Six weeks after Sergeant Wright told me about Rick, I

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Speaker 1: saw the video that Raven Masterson had made of the

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Speaker 1: Montanito lifer.

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Speaker 2: But so I just heard this a couple weeks later,

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Speaker 2: you know, I hear that she's missing, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: I walk through all this stuff's going on like sorry,

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Speaker 2: I'm up with my spot, like two days later, and

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Speaker 2: I see And I've seen a lot of vultures in

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Speaker 2: my life. I lived after fifty years, right right, I've

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Speaker 2: never seen one hundred vultures just swoom. I seem like

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Speaker 2: a thousand of them, you know, I mean, I've never

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Speaker 2: seen that many, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, So when did you see this?

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Speaker 2: I saw this like two days after she was missing,

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Speaker 2: maybe four days after she was Missing.

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Speaker 1: Raven titled her video the fall Guy because she thought

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Speaker 1: he was a scapegoat. She doesn't say his name, but

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Speaker 1: I recognized him though he'd aged and faded.

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Speaker 2: Zucka. I don't know any of the facts except for

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Speaker 2: that the constant Eye was the last one to see

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Speaker 2: her live.

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Speaker 1: It was Rick Forstberg. I'm Dana Goodyear and this is

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Speaker 1: Lost Hills episode eight, Rick Trouble. As soon as we

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Speaker 1: got Rick's name, we started hunting for information about him.

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Speaker 1: Who was he? We found a Facebook group called Once

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Speaker 1: Upon a Time in Montanito. Skimming through it was like

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Speaker 1: reading an old timey California fairy tale, full of images

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Speaker 1: of picnics, parties, motorcycle rallies, horseback rides, and sun struck

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Speaker 1: days at Surfrider Beach and Corr's beer. A lot of

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Speaker 1: Corr's beer. We found pictures of Rick back in the

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Speaker 1: day in bell bottoms or short shorts and tearing around

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Speaker 1: a track on his motorcycle. One commenter on the page

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Speaker 1: calls him the Montanito nick Nolty, and in general, the

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Speaker 1: page seemed like an informal memorial to the community's boys,

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Speaker 1: boys who played rough, partied hard, and died before their time.

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Speaker 1: They called themselves the Montanito Boys, and Rick was their ringleader.

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Speaker 4: He's tall, handsome, He's got a really good vibe, bright

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Speaker 4: blue eyes, tan, just gorgeous. He was just beautiful to me,

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Speaker 4: absolutely beautiful.

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Speaker 1: This is Sharie Ameck. After many failed attempts to set

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Speaker 1: up an interview, we dropped by our house one day unannounced,

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Speaker 1: and to our surprise, she invites us into her backyard.

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Speaker 1: It's the house she grew up in and the yard

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Speaker 1: she got married in.

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Speaker 5: Rick did everything like for my wedding I had here

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Speaker 5: with my dad.

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Speaker 4: He was always down to help and he knew what

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Speaker 4: he was doing.

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Speaker 1: Her parents were half a generation older than Rick and

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Speaker 1: extremely close to him, and Rick was like a big

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Speaker 1: brother to her. He lived with them off and on,

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Speaker 1: and she worshiped him.

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Speaker 4: And Rick was always just loud and I'm loud. He's loud,

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Speaker 4: and he's loves loves you. He just loves you and

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Speaker 4: he loves live. Excuse me, that's my phone. It never rings.

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Speaker 1: It's someone named Art Davis on the phone. We've actually

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Speaker 1: been trying to reach Art for months. Two His stepdad

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Speaker 1: and Rick's dad owned an HVAC business with Scherie's grandfather,

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Speaker 1: and Art and Rick were childhood best friends.

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Speaker 4: Arty, come over, just come back, just come home home. See,

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Speaker 4: isn't that fucking crazy?

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Speaker 1: Something's never changed.

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Speaker 4: My god, we're family. We're family.

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Speaker 1: A few minutes later, Art walks into the yard and

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Speaker 1: joins us on the patio. He's lanky and weathered, a

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Speaker 1: former basketball player who's been working as a roofer for decades.

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Speaker 1: And that's how we end up doing an impromptu interview

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Speaker 1: with two of Rick's most loyal, longtime friends.

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Speaker 6: Okay, and I met Rick in nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 2: Just shut up and show her. No, just kind of just.

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Speaker 6: Building up a little story here, right, Okay, look at

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Speaker 6: this picture. This is Rick and his sister.

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Speaker 1: Art shows us a picture on his phone of two

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Speaker 1: little white, blonde kids back in the days when his

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Speaker 1: family and the Forestburgs were neighbors in Malibu Meadows, a

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Speaker 1: private area in Lower Montanito. Art says, whatever was going on,

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Speaker 1: Rick was always at the center of it.

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Speaker 6: Rick he was known good, bad or otherwise he was known.

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Speaker 6: He could just be sitting in his dad's boat in

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Speaker 6: the garage, put that hot engine in the back man,

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Speaker 6: and all the kids in the neighborhood. We'd all go

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Speaker 6: down there and we'd sit around. You know, Rick, what's

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Speaker 6: Rick doing?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 6: Rick was always the guy.

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Speaker 1: Rick was an adrenaline junkie, dirt bikes, motorcycles, cars, boats.

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Speaker 1: If it could go, he wanted it to go faster.

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Speaker 1: His family spent time at Lake Havasu and he became

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Speaker 1: an ex optional water skier. He had no fear and

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Speaker 1: no internal monitor.

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Speaker 6: He could barefoot water ski any circle raced. And those guys,

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Speaker 6: the boats that he was behind there, It's the scariest

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Speaker 6: thing that I ever did, just being an observer for

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Speaker 6: one of the races that they were in. You know,

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Speaker 6: like you get like fifteen boats going into one turn

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Speaker 6: and the wake behind the boats is so high you

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Speaker 6: can't even see the skier and the skis that they're

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Speaker 6: in are so thick so that they can go right

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Speaker 6: through that stuff, you know, and they were just like

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Speaker 6: thumbs up. Thumbs up means faster, faster.

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Speaker 1: So Art and Sharie hold a candle for the heroic

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Speaker 1: side of wreck. But I wondered what some of the

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Speaker 1: other surviving Montinito boys would say. So Haley and I

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Speaker 1: head to an assisted living facility in Long Beach an

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Speaker 1: hour and a half down the coast from Malibu.

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Speaker 7: Names William English Hall, and we had oatmeal and fried

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Speaker 7: egg and sausage and biscuit for breakfast.

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Speaker 1: Were set up in the employee breakroom where there's a

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Speaker 1: handyman repairing the ceiling. Bill that's what he goes by.

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Speaker 1: Knew Rick his whole life.

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Speaker 7: My dad called him Tricky Ricky, which is kind of

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Speaker 7: a good nickname for him.

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Speaker 1: Bill and his brothers were part of the Montanito Boys.

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Speaker 1: And were they in addition to being like Rick, like

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Speaker 1: handsome and athletic and the ladies like them, were they

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Speaker 1: also kind of bad boys?

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Speaker 7: You know, I wouldn't say real bad boys, but yeah,

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Speaker 7: in the drugs and whatever. You know, we all kind

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Speaker 7: of dallied with drugs.

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Speaker 1: Though it was the times right ye. The Montanito Boys

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Speaker 1: spent their days playing in the creek and exploring the

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Speaker 1: canyons and riding motorcycle on a course they built at

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Speaker 1: the Triangle that was a patch of undeveloped land formed

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Speaker 1: by Payuma, Cold Canyon and wood Bluff Roads.

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Speaker 3: My first memory of Rick, I was probably about eight

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Speaker 3: years old, and I was down the street from my parents'

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Speaker 3: house and he ran up to my bike and grabbed

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Speaker 3: my bike and stole my bike.

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Speaker 1: This is Jay Engelshall. He's one of Bill's brothers, a skinny,

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Speaker 1: self effacing guy who's clearly still living hard. We met

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Speaker 1: him in the parking lot of a sporting goods store

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Speaker 1: near his brother's nursing home and sat in my car

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Speaker 1: to talk. Jay remembers Rick as rowdy and fun when

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Speaker 1: they were younger. One time, after Rick crashed his corvat,

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Speaker 1: he was fixing it up in the Engelshall's driveway.

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Speaker 3: He was working on the fenders and stuff, but us,

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Speaker 3: being kids, we jumped in the front of it, like

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Speaker 3: five of us, and he starts it up, and he

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Speaker 3: took us around the circle down the down below my parents' house.

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Speaker 3: There's a big circle with gravel and dirt roads. He

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Speaker 3: was pretty much just sideways around every turn, gravels shooting

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Speaker 3: up and dust and oh the neighbors should be coming

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Speaker 3: out shaking their finger on them. The dangerous. We had

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Speaker 3: kids in the rood, but it was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: There was quite a few times he gave us rides

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Speaker 3: like that, just either crying, laughing or peeing in our

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Speaker 3: pants or Yeah, it was pretty insane, pretty crazy.

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Speaker 1: But it was not all fun and games. The Montanito

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Speaker 1: Boys had enemies, the Malibu cops who hunted the boys

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Speaker 1: from the air.

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Speaker 3: They were pretty very I would just say aggressive with

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Speaker 3: the helicopter. I mean, I remember I thought it was

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Speaker 3: a little too much at the time, chasing them with

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Speaker 3: helicopters on the dirt bikes.

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Speaker 1: As they got older, the trouble got deeper. There was

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Speaker 1: one wild party that has become part of the community's

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Speaker 1: collective memory, not because it was so crazy, there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of wild parties back then, because of what

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Speaker 1: happened after the cops showed up.

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Speaker 3: They broke it up and they told us, you know,

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Speaker 3: wrap it up in the night or whatever. But there

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Speaker 3: was still a bunch of beer left in the kegs.

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Speaker 3: So the older brothers took the keg to Lust Canyon.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the Montonito Boys hideouts.

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Speaker 3: When the cops got there, I guess, a couple of

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Speaker 3: guys just ran off in the hills and they you know,

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Speaker 3: basically taunting and you know, flipping them off or whatever,

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Speaker 3: yelling back at him, you know, leave us alone.

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Speaker 1: The cops pursued them and they ended up attacking a

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Speaker 1: kid called Glen.

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Speaker 3: They beat him with the flash light and it almost

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Speaker 3: cut his era off. But he had stitches everywhere, I

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Speaker 3: mean all over his heads, forehead and all that.

201
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Speaker 1: Jay says, the cops were always focused on Rick. It

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Speaker 1: was pretty obvious that he was a problem.

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Speaker 3: Rick was playing one of the worst kids in that neighborhood,

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Speaker 3: you know, with them, so that he was well known

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Speaker 3: in that regard.

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Speaker 1: And one of the worst beatings the Malibu cops ever

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Speaker 1: doled out was to none other than Rick Forsberg. Some

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Speaker 1: people said it changed him forever.

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Speaker 8: Okay, Hi, I'm Neil Samuelson, author of malbou Up the Grid,

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Speaker 8: a book about the Malibu area and all that has

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Speaker 8: transpired here in the years past. How's that.

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Speaker 1: After Rick died in twenty nineteen, his family put up

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Speaker 1: the obituary site. That's how we found his old friend Neil.

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Speaker 1: In the comments section, there was a plug for his book,

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Speaker 1: a self published memoir of growing up on the margins

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Speaker 1: of Malibu.

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Speaker 8: It was the best place in the world to grow up.

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Speaker 8: And eventually, you know, it all kind of caught up

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Speaker 8: to us. You know, some of us were real successful,

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Speaker 8: and some of us stayed around here and we were

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Speaker 8: caught in this you know, little world that we couldn't

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Speaker 8: get out of. The parents were pretty well off, and

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Speaker 8: you know, although Rick never lived off this folks, he

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Speaker 8: was bounding a demined to make it on his own. So,

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Speaker 8: I mean he was you know, I mean, he was

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Speaker 8: a good guy, but the alcohol kind of brought him

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Speaker 8: down a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Neil was several years younger than Rick, and he lived

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Speaker 1: in a different neighborhood, but they hung out together, and

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Speaker 1: he knows a lot about Rick's history. He's even given

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Speaker 1: Rick a special pseudonym in the.

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Speaker 8: Book, Oh Trouble, Rick Trouble.

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Speaker 1: A lot of Rick's personality, Neil says, can be explained

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Speaker 1: by what happened to him as a kid at the

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Speaker 1: hands of the Malibu cops. He says, the Malibu cops

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Speaker 1: were notorious and vindictive, and they absolutely despised the spoiled

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Speaker 1: kids in the area.

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Speaker 8: Oh, they were the roughest of the budge. You know,

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Speaker 8: you didn't want to mess with the Malbouy sheriffs, especially

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Speaker 8: as poked you know, rich kids. You know that we

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Speaker 8: were like the pray for them home host. A lot

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Speaker 8: of kids got beaten up by those guys. But you know,

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Speaker 8: as you If you run, you've got to pay the consequences.

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Speaker 1: Rick would always run, but one night in the spring

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Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy seven he got caught.

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Speaker 8: This was my grad night, and I was supposed to

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Speaker 8: be graduated, and you know, and I'm messing around with

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Speaker 8: the older kids.

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Speaker 1: Banded up at the old missile site at the top

250
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Speaker 1: of Payuma Road, where obviously they weren't supposed to be

251
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Speaker 1: the nuclear missiles were gone, but it was government property.

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Speaker 8: We you know, found a spot and we're up there

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Speaker 8: hanging out, and you know, we had a little pod,

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Speaker 8: but nothing, you know, big, and then all of a sudden, boom,

255
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Speaker 8: out of the blue, there's cops there, you know. So

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Speaker 8: two of the guys ran, and then Rick tried to run,

257
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Speaker 8: and he was the last guy to run, so they

258
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Speaker 8: ran him down and he tried to get away and

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Speaker 8: they cornered him, and the guy just really hammered him.

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Speaker 8: They really just beat him to a pulp and they

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Speaker 8: dragged him up to the police car.

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Speaker 1: Neil's watching all this from the back of a cop car.

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Speaker 1: He's been arrested and is about to be taken to

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Speaker 1: the place the kids call the Malibu Hilton, a facetious

265
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Speaker 1: nickname for the local jail.

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Speaker 8: We watched Rick just get clubbed. The guy just kept

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Speaker 8: beating on him, hitting his legs. Finally he crumbled to

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Speaker 8: the ground and that's when they took off and they

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Speaker 8: wouldn't allow us to see the rest of it. So

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Speaker 8: they took us down to jail, and we didn't know

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Speaker 8: what happened to Rick. And four or five hours went by.

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Speaker 8: Rick came back to the jail and he was his

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Speaker 8: head was shaved and he had stitches all over his head,

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Speaker 8: and he was very defiant and it's like very mad.

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Speaker 1: After the beating, Rick's golden boy glamour began to tarnish.

276
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Speaker 1: He got wilder and meaner, and his relationship with law

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Speaker 1: enforcement grew more combative. In the years that followed, Rick

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Speaker 1: was in and out of police custody and did time

279
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Speaker 1: in state prison.

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Speaker 8: Rick was always one of those guys that was going

281
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Speaker 8: to conquer the world. Man, he had it in him,

282
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Speaker 8: you know, and little by little, you know, he kept

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Speaker 8: getting in these situations where he would, you know, run

284
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Speaker 8: from the police and something would happen. I mean, I

285
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Speaker 8: could think of five different incidentss just off the top

286
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Speaker 8: of my head, where he would run and have police contact, you.

287
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Speaker 1: Know, and he would right back to wouldn't he One.

288
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Speaker 8: Time he did, Yeah, And that's the one that got

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Speaker 8: him in the most trouble. He ended up hurting a

290
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Speaker 8: couple of police officers. I think it was the way

291
00:18:57,476 --> 00:19:03,236
Speaker 8: the story goes. But you know, he he was kind

292
00:19:03,276 --> 00:19:06,636
Speaker 8: of a mystery. After a couple of years, you'd see him,

293
00:19:06,636 --> 00:19:12,076
Speaker 8: he tell us his story, and uh, he was living

294
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Speaker 8: all over the place. Most of the time. He lived

295
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Speaker 8: a very suffered life.

296
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Speaker 1: Rick's family continued living in Montanito. His father died a

297
00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:26,996
Speaker 1: few years ago, but his mother and one of his

298
00:19:27,076 --> 00:19:31,116
Speaker 1: two sisters are still there today, respected and beloved members

299
00:19:31,116 --> 00:19:35,356
Speaker 1: of the community. As an adult, Rick lived in various

300
00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:38,516
Speaker 1: places around southern California and spent some time in Hawaii,

301
00:19:38,796 --> 00:19:43,036
Speaker 1: but he always gravitated back to the area he was from,

302
00:19:43,196 --> 00:19:45,556
Speaker 1: and in July of two thousand and nine, when he

303
00:19:45,636 --> 00:19:48,476
Speaker 1: was released from prison for the last time, he came

304
00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:53,356
Speaker 1: back to Montanito. This was two months before My Trees disappeared.

305
00:19:55,236 --> 00:19:58,636
Speaker 1: Friends say by the time Rick returned from prison, he

306
00:19:58,716 --> 00:20:00,876
Speaker 1: was no longer welcome at the house he grew up in,

307
00:20:02,356 --> 00:20:04,956
Speaker 1: but Rick had been building forts in growing pots since

308
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Speaker 1: he was a kid, he was at home in the woods,

309
00:20:08,116 --> 00:20:10,276
Speaker 1: so he built himself a hide out at the base

310
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Speaker 1: of a large tree in the woods off Payuma Road,

311
00:20:13,916 --> 00:20:16,556
Speaker 1: and he retreated there to hang out and tend his

312
00:20:16,596 --> 00:20:21,516
Speaker 1: plants in peace. Neil says he thinks he knows where

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Speaker 1: Rick's spot was. He remembers going there a few times.

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Speaker 8: Okay, so you guys follow me and I'll drive real slow.

315
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Speaker 1: We follow him up Payuma Road, past the entrance to

316
00:20:32,876 --> 00:20:35,796
Speaker 1: the Porn Ranch and around another bend or two. We

317
00:20:35,956 --> 00:20:37,996
Speaker 1: park in a turnout and get out of the cars.

318
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Speaker 1: He points down into the dense brush below.

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Speaker 8: Well, this is his spot that I knew, where he

320
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Speaker 8: grew a couple of plants.

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Speaker 2: It's right here.

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Speaker 1: Was he a physically fit guy, because getting down there

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Speaker 1: looks like a giant pain.

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Speaker 8: Oh yeah, Well, like I said, yeah, it's rough walking

325
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Speaker 8: down there. That's why it's so secluded. That's why it's

326
00:21:00,236 --> 00:21:03,516
Speaker 8: a perfect spot for somebody to hide out in. I'm

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Speaker 8: sure there was a little trail here ten years ago. Though.

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Speaker 1: Right before leaving, I want to run one more thing

329
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Speaker 1: by him. I just want to verify that the fort

330
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Speaker 1: Sergeant Wright told me about is the same one Neil visited.

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Speaker 1: So what I was going to tell you is that

332
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Speaker 1: I heard that there was like a tip that, oh

333
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Speaker 1: my god, this guy has a little structure and there's

334
00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:33,836
Speaker 1: somebody had seen it and said there's a rib cage

335
00:21:33,876 --> 00:21:37,436
Speaker 1: in there, and they came and looked and it was

336
00:21:37,476 --> 00:21:42,316
Speaker 1: a deer rib cage and ricked.

337
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Speaker 8: Eight and deer. You know, he's he was a he

338
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Speaker 8: kind of went into you know, wild boat. I think,

339
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Speaker 8: you know.

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Speaker 1: A few days after Neil shows me the general area

341
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Speaker 1: of rick Spot, I meet up with Sergeant Wright. He's

342
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Speaker 1: got something for me. It's the coordinates for Rix Fort.

343
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Speaker 1: I punched them into Google Maps. There off to the

344
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Speaker 1: side of Payuma Road is a skeletal tree right in

345
00:22:11,116 --> 00:22:13,916
Speaker 1: the area Neil had showed me, and there's a trail

346
00:22:13,996 --> 00:22:17,516
Speaker 1: running by it, a section of the Backbone Trail. I

347
00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:20,716
Speaker 1: decide to go check it out. I'm thinking maybe I'll

348
00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:28,476
Speaker 1: find something, some remnant of wreck. I picked my way

349
00:22:28,516 --> 00:22:32,996
Speaker 1: through overgrown dry brush. The brush forms tunnels and you

350
00:22:33,076 --> 00:22:39,756
Speaker 1: have to crouch low to get through. Is that an

351
00:22:39,756 --> 00:22:44,916
Speaker 1: access trail? Where does that one go from? On the ground,

352
00:22:44,996 --> 00:22:47,796
Speaker 1: I spot a plastic water bottle and some black irrigation

353
00:22:47,916 --> 00:22:51,876
Speaker 1: tubes and other items that look like detritus from growing pot.

354
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Speaker 1: I remember the thing that I was told is that

355
00:22:56,116 --> 00:23:00,516
Speaker 1: there were four trees that, in not a perfect square,

356
00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:05,196
Speaker 1: had been kind of bound together and topped over. I

357
00:23:05,236 --> 00:23:08,756
Speaker 1: find the big dead tree pushed up against a smaller tree.

358
00:23:08,836 --> 00:23:13,196
Speaker 1: Nearby is a decaying mattress, the fabrics caving in and torn.

359
00:23:13,796 --> 00:23:18,596
Speaker 1: It looks like a home for rats. Nothing else. That's

360
00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:24,196
Speaker 1: all that was left of Rick's old fort. But I've

361
00:23:24,276 --> 00:23:27,836
Speaker 1: learned the fort wasn't the only place Rick was hanging out.

362
00:23:28,036 --> 00:23:31,716
Speaker 1: He was down in the neighborhood too, partying with old friends,

363
00:23:32,436 --> 00:23:34,716
Speaker 1: and back in two thousand and nine when my trise

364
00:23:34,756 --> 00:23:53,156
Speaker 1: went missing, some of them immediately thought of Rick. Laura

365
00:23:53,236 --> 00:23:56,876
Speaker 1: and Ray Robbins Shari Ameck's parents were like a surrogate

366
00:23:56,956 --> 00:24:00,276
Speaker 1: family for Rick. Over the years, the Robins would be

367
00:24:00,316 --> 00:24:02,476
Speaker 1: a refuge for him when he wore out his welcome

368
00:24:02,516 --> 00:24:05,316
Speaker 1: at home, and in two thousand and nine, after he

369
00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:07,836
Speaker 1: got out of prison, when he wasn't at his fort,

370
00:24:08,156 --> 00:24:10,836
Speaker 1: he was spending a lot of time there. He'd use

371
00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:13,836
Speaker 1: the shower or sleep on the couch, and sometimes he'd

372
00:24:13,876 --> 00:24:17,076
Speaker 1: live in the basement. Rick's parents would give the Robins

373
00:24:17,076 --> 00:24:20,516
Speaker 1: money for his room and board. Rick was middle aged,

374
00:24:20,836 --> 00:24:23,156
Speaker 1: fifty four years old in the summer of two thousand

375
00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:25,436
Speaker 1: and nine, but he was kind of like a kid

376
00:24:25,476 --> 00:24:28,356
Speaker 1: who refused to grow up, and even though he had

377
00:24:28,396 --> 00:24:30,956
Speaker 1: the Robin's house to stay at, he generally preferred to

378
00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:33,596
Speaker 1: be up at his spot. He'd walk or ride his

379
00:24:33,636 --> 00:24:37,036
Speaker 1: motorcycle up Payuma Road at dusk and head back down

380
00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:40,716
Speaker 1: to the neighborhood at dawn. Back on the patio with

381
00:24:40,756 --> 00:24:45,316
Speaker 1: Shari and Art, I ask about Rick's spot, did you

382
00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:46,356
Speaker 1: ever go up to the fort?

383
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Speaker 4: I did not not your scene up there. You know,

384
00:24:50,196 --> 00:24:53,156
Speaker 4: I didn't want to go. I didn't want to know.

385
00:24:54,836 --> 00:24:58,516
Speaker 4: I didn't want to know. He was so proud of

386
00:24:58,556 --> 00:25:00,876
Speaker 4: it too, it was hilarious. He took my ex husband

387
00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:04,596
Speaker 4: up there and he went up there, and my ex

388
00:25:04,716 --> 00:25:06,756
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, like it's so awesome. He's

389
00:25:06,756 --> 00:25:08,796
Speaker 4: got it all set up like a tent and it's

390
00:25:08,836 --> 00:25:11,196
Speaker 4: all He's got a chair and a couch and the

391
00:25:11,276 --> 00:25:14,156
Speaker 4: light and this and the that. I'm like, oh my godness,

392
00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:16,796
Speaker 4: why is he doing that. He doesn't need to do that.

393
00:25:17,116 --> 00:25:19,396
Speaker 4: But he was growing pot up there, so you know,

394
00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,756
Speaker 4: he was protecting his plants and at that time it

395
00:25:21,796 --> 00:25:22,556
Speaker 4: was still illegal.

396
00:25:23,116 --> 00:25:23,316
Speaker 3: You know.

397
00:25:23,356 --> 00:25:26,196
Speaker 4: Also, I was like, oh my god, you're growing plants. Ah,

398
00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:31,876
Speaker 4: you're gonna get busted. My mom, be careful, Rick, Rick,

399
00:25:31,956 --> 00:25:32,556
Speaker 4: be careful.

400
00:25:34,636 --> 00:25:37,636
Speaker 1: Rick had been drinking and smoking pot and using PCP

401
00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:41,156
Speaker 1: since the seventies. He'd also done a lot of coke

402
00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:44,716
Speaker 1: and heroine, and by the two thousands he discovered math.

403
00:25:45,196 --> 00:25:47,116
Speaker 1: It had a very noticeable effect on him.

404
00:25:48,476 --> 00:25:51,636
Speaker 4: That was always something that was being passed around, for sure.

405
00:25:53,836 --> 00:25:56,156
Speaker 4: And he wasn't you know, he was the type that

406
00:25:56,236 --> 00:26:00,716
Speaker 4: would disappear. You know, he wasn't. He wasn't. He wasn't Rick.

407
00:26:00,796 --> 00:26:02,596
Speaker 4: He wasn't out in the open right up in your

408
00:26:02,596 --> 00:26:04,636
Speaker 4: face and everything else and how a good time?

409
00:26:05,316 --> 00:26:05,516
Speaker 7: You know.

410
00:26:05,676 --> 00:26:08,636
Speaker 4: He was like are they here? You know, he's all

411
00:26:08,676 --> 00:26:10,796
Speaker 4: paranoid and freaking peeking out the door. I'm like, oh

412
00:26:10,876 --> 00:26:13,196
Speaker 4: my god, okay, so no, no, no, no, I'll see

413
00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:13,556
Speaker 4: you later.

414
00:26:14,996 --> 00:26:18,436
Speaker 1: Even as he aged and people around him changed their ways,

415
00:26:19,076 --> 00:26:21,596
Speaker 1: Rick didn't seem capable of toning it down.

416
00:26:23,156 --> 00:26:24,756
Speaker 8: You either died or got sober.

417
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:32,556
Speaker 1: You know, he did do was driving that insatiable desire

418
00:26:32,756 --> 00:26:34,876
Speaker 1: to go to oblivion.

419
00:26:36,236 --> 00:26:40,716
Speaker 5: I work in mental health, well not currently, and I

420
00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:43,396
Speaker 5: really wanted to ask him, like why, like why are

421
00:26:43,476 --> 00:26:46,636
Speaker 5: you like this? Why are you so we were like

422
00:26:46,796 --> 00:26:49,236
Speaker 5: you know, running or getting in trouble or hurting yourself

423
00:26:49,356 --> 00:26:51,476
Speaker 5: or you know, continues like doing the same thing over

424
00:26:51,516 --> 00:26:51,836
Speaker 5: and over.

425
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:56,236
Speaker 1: On the day of my Teresa's disappearance, Rick told the

426
00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:59,716
Speaker 1: Robins that he'd heard her at the tennis courthouse. He

427
00:26:59,796 --> 00:27:02,956
Speaker 1: says this in the video, and Laura Robbins confirmed it

428
00:27:02,996 --> 00:27:05,436
Speaker 1: to me when I spoke to her on the phone,

429
00:27:05,476 --> 00:27:08,396
Speaker 1: though she emphasized that her goal was to protect Rick.

430
00:27:09,516 --> 00:27:12,116
Speaker 1: I don't want anything said other than that he was

431
00:27:12,156 --> 00:27:14,716
Speaker 1: the best guy in the world. She said, he's not

432
00:27:14,796 --> 00:27:19,796
Speaker 1: your man's sweetheart. He's not but CHERI says. Laura was

433
00:27:19,876 --> 00:27:23,116
Speaker 1: deeply concerned that Rick was involved with my Teresa's death,

434
00:27:23,796 --> 00:27:25,996
Speaker 1: and she confronted him with her suspicions.

435
00:27:27,076 --> 00:27:30,596
Speaker 4: I was here when my mom was like, Rick, do

436
00:27:30,636 --> 00:27:33,556
Speaker 4: you know anything about that girl? He was saying right

437
00:27:33,596 --> 00:27:36,036
Speaker 4: there then we had a couchhare. I remember the whole thing.

438
00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:40,356
Speaker 4: Do you know anything about that girl? Rick? And He's like,

439
00:27:40,396 --> 00:27:42,676
Speaker 4: what girl, Laura, what girl?

440
00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:43,196
Speaker 7: You know?

441
00:27:43,236 --> 00:27:47,596
Speaker 4: He had that raspy boy. She's like the girl, the girl,

442
00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:50,756
Speaker 4: you know, the girl, that fucking the girl is dead,

443
00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:54,396
Speaker 4: the girl that they found. And he goes and he

444
00:27:54,476 --> 00:27:58,276
Speaker 4: looked at her like, are you fucking serious?

445
00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:01,996
Speaker 1: CHERI didn't think Rick would lie to her mom or

446
00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:02,876
Speaker 1: to her.

447
00:28:03,596 --> 00:28:04,276
Speaker 4: Would he tell me?

448
00:28:04,356 --> 00:28:04,596
Speaker 2: Yeah?

449
00:28:04,636 --> 00:28:08,836
Speaker 4: I think he would. I think he would. He just

450
00:28:08,836 --> 00:28:10,036
Speaker 4: trust to me that way.

451
00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:13,476
Speaker 1: And if he had lied, she would have seen right

452
00:28:13,556 --> 00:28:16,396
Speaker 1: through him. He was guileless.

453
00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:19,916
Speaker 4: And I know, I mean, I have a really good

454
00:28:19,956 --> 00:28:22,596
Speaker 4: sense of intuition, and if I thought Rick did that,

455
00:28:22,676 --> 00:28:24,476
Speaker 4: I would know. I would be able to see it.

456
00:28:25,196 --> 00:28:27,236
Speaker 4: He couldn't hide it. He was like a little kid.

457
00:28:27,716 --> 00:28:32,156
Speaker 4: He couldn't hide. He couldn't He wasn't a liar. He

458
00:28:32,276 --> 00:28:35,396
Speaker 4: wasn't a liar, and he wasn't a killer. He never

459
00:28:35,476 --> 00:28:37,276
Speaker 4: killed anybody to my knowledge.

460
00:28:39,876 --> 00:28:43,236
Speaker 1: In the video, Rick proposes that my Trees fell down

461
00:28:43,236 --> 00:28:47,676
Speaker 1: in a ditch. My Trees didn't use hard drugs, just pot.

462
00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:50,356
Speaker 1: But she also wasn't in a normal state of mind

463
00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,436
Speaker 1: on September seventeenth, two thousand and nine, so she might

464
00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:56,876
Speaker 1: have been more open to trying something, or she could

465
00:28:56,916 --> 00:28:59,076
Speaker 1: have been tricked into accepting what she thought was a

466
00:28:59,156 --> 00:29:01,316
Speaker 1: joint when it may have been laced with meth or

467
00:29:01,356 --> 00:29:07,196
Speaker 1: cocaine or something else. The toxicology from her autopsy was inconclusive,

468
00:29:07,556 --> 00:29:09,756
Speaker 1: so it's impossible to say if rugs were in her

469
00:29:09,796 --> 00:29:12,836
Speaker 1: system at the time of her death. But there says

470
00:29:13,196 --> 00:29:16,356
Speaker 1: she just can't picture Rick seeking out my Teresa's company.

471
00:29:16,916 --> 00:29:19,996
Speaker 5: And I'm just being completely honest. I don't want to

472
00:29:19,996 --> 00:29:22,436
Speaker 5: say that he was, you know, racist, but I don't

473
00:29:22,436 --> 00:29:25,836
Speaker 5: think that he would have any interest in even especially

474
00:29:25,836 --> 00:29:26,716
Speaker 5: on a tennis.

475
00:29:26,396 --> 00:29:29,316
Speaker 4: Court at night. He's already like Rick would have.

476
00:29:29,836 --> 00:29:34,076
Speaker 1: Nah, it takes me a second to believe what I'm hearing.

477
00:29:35,636 --> 00:29:38,116
Speaker 1: You think he wouldn't be attracted to a black woman

478
00:29:38,196 --> 00:29:40,036
Speaker 1: like that when she was too young for him. First

479
00:29:40,036 --> 00:29:42,516
Speaker 1: of all, let's just say that. But that is not

480
00:29:43,076 --> 00:29:44,716
Speaker 1: many people have not been stopped by that.

481
00:29:46,196 --> 00:29:47,636
Speaker 5: Well, I mean for the most part.

482
00:29:48,916 --> 00:29:52,276
Speaker 1: No, she says, it's not the age. My Teres wasn't

483
00:29:52,316 --> 00:29:56,476
Speaker 1: his type. She turns to art for confirmation.

484
00:29:57,636 --> 00:30:01,996
Speaker 5: Seek about it being a black woman's think about that.

485
00:30:04,156 --> 00:30:08,156
Speaker 5: Do you see Rick going to have an engagement time

486
00:30:08,236 --> 00:30:10,436
Speaker 5: and get wasted with a black girl at four thirty

487
00:30:10,436 --> 00:30:13,916
Speaker 5: in the morning on Payuma coming down when she's yelling

488
00:30:13,916 --> 00:30:16,556
Speaker 5: and somewhat disoriented, or you know, he sees there's an issue.

489
00:30:16,596 --> 00:30:18,596
Speaker 5: What he says jump on the back of my bike.

490
00:30:18,676 --> 00:30:22,436
Speaker 4: Let's go get high. I'll help you. Yeah, I think

491
00:30:22,476 --> 00:30:22,916
Speaker 4: you do that.

492
00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:25,116
Speaker 9: I do.

493
00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:31,436
Speaker 1: My Trice was a stunningly beautiful twenty four year old dancer.

494
00:30:32,236 --> 00:30:35,716
Speaker 1: Rick was a fifty four year old ex con methaddict.

495
00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:40,236
Speaker 1: The idea that his racism could be exculpatory proof that

496
00:30:40,276 --> 00:30:42,996
Speaker 1: he wouldn't want to get involved with her. It's not

497
00:30:43,076 --> 00:30:48,476
Speaker 1: just deeply offensive, it's illogical. To my mind. Racism could

498
00:30:48,516 --> 00:30:51,796
Speaker 1: easily explain a crime against my teres, not make it

499
00:30:51,836 --> 00:30:59,956
Speaker 1: inconceivable her freedom, her life, it might have seemed expendable. Also,

500
00:31:00,236 --> 00:31:03,476
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how much Cheri really knows about what Rick

501
00:31:03,636 --> 00:31:07,556
Speaker 1: was into. I'm thinking of the Raven video. He does

502
00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:11,156
Speaker 1: not seem at all off by or uncomfortable with the

503
00:31:11,196 --> 00:31:16,636
Speaker 1: attractive young black woman he's being interviewed by. Quite the contrary,

504
00:31:16,756 --> 00:31:21,636
Speaker 1: he invites her up to his fort. Sheree is clearly

505
00:31:21,676 --> 00:31:25,796
Speaker 1: troubled by this whole conversation. She loves Rick, but she

506
00:31:25,916 --> 00:31:27,356
Speaker 1: also feels for my trees.

507
00:31:28,916 --> 00:31:32,036
Speaker 4: How do we figure out what happened to my trees?

508
00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:33,196
Speaker 7: How do we figure this out?

509
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,756
Speaker 1: I feel like her brain is kind of melting down.

510
00:31:37,516 --> 00:31:40,756
Speaker 1: She just can't believe Rick would have killed someone. She

511
00:31:40,796 --> 00:31:45,556
Speaker 1: addresses art again, Rick wasn't that brutal or that calculating?

512
00:31:46,676 --> 00:31:46,876
Speaker 9: Was he?

513
00:31:48,516 --> 00:31:50,476
Speaker 4: Do you think that he would have the ability to

514
00:31:50,556 --> 00:31:55,036
Speaker 4: keep that as alive? Do you think, really think you've

515
00:31:55,036 --> 00:31:59,236
Speaker 4: known him your entire life? Could Ricky get away with that?

516
00:32:01,316 --> 00:32:03,516
Speaker 6: I have no idea thought that.

517
00:32:07,916 --> 00:32:09,556
Speaker 1: We turn off the mic and are pa backing up

518
00:32:09,556 --> 00:32:12,596
Speaker 1: to leave. When Cherie looks up at the cloudless blue

519
00:32:12,596 --> 00:32:17,356
Speaker 1: sky and starts to freak out. There are vultures, dozens

520
00:32:17,356 --> 00:32:20,716
Speaker 1: of them, spiraling overhead. I grabbed my phone to record

521
00:32:20,716 --> 00:32:21,156
Speaker 1: a video.

522
00:32:22,156 --> 00:32:26,276
Speaker 9: Oh my god, you guys, No, arety come here? No,

523
00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:31,796
Speaker 9: it's not normal. Oh my god, Artie, look how many?

524
00:32:32,836 --> 00:32:40,796
Speaker 9: There's like thirty of them. That is so crazy. I

525
00:32:40,836 --> 00:32:41,996
Speaker 9: haven't seen them in so long.

526
00:32:43,916 --> 00:32:47,436
Speaker 1: She thinks the vultures are a sign, a sign of Rick.

527
00:32:53,796 --> 00:32:57,436
Speaker 1: Rick's childhood friend Jay Engelshall, says he and Rick were

528
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:00,356
Speaker 1: together a lot around the time of my Teres's disappearance,

529
00:33:01,436 --> 00:33:04,116
Speaker 1: but Rick didn't tell him about hearing my Teres that

530
00:33:04,236 --> 00:33:07,916
Speaker 1: morning at the Tennis court house. This was the biggest

531
00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:11,796
Speaker 1: thing that had happened in Monte maybe ever, a woman

532
00:33:11,836 --> 00:33:17,956
Speaker 1: going missing. Cops everywhere, helicopter searches dogs flyers, So why

533
00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:21,076
Speaker 1: didn't Rick tell him about his encounter with my trees.

534
00:33:22,276 --> 00:33:26,316
Speaker 3: It's just I never heard of doing that happening, and

535
00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:29,756
Speaker 3: it's like, wow, I never heard him talk like that

536
00:33:29,796 --> 00:33:33,196
Speaker 3: before about it, and I think I would have. You know,

537
00:33:33,476 --> 00:33:33,996
Speaker 3: it's weird.

538
00:33:35,396 --> 00:33:37,796
Speaker 1: Jay says he and Rick would hang out at the fort.

539
00:33:39,076 --> 00:33:41,196
Speaker 3: That's one of the reasons why. I guess he built

540
00:33:41,196 --> 00:33:45,276
Speaker 3: a fort so you'd have somewhere to go. And when

541
00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:48,596
Speaker 3: he did, he was sort of like, you know, watcho

542
00:33:48,596 --> 00:33:51,116
Speaker 3: Mountain Ran. In a way, it was he was proud

543
00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,676
Speaker 3: of it, trying to make the best of it, I guess,

544
00:33:53,756 --> 00:34:00,036
Speaker 3: but he was also just I don't know. It seemed

545
00:34:00,036 --> 00:34:03,676
Speaker 3: like he was doing his own thing and doing it

546
00:34:03,716 --> 00:34:05,636
Speaker 3: and whichever way he wanted.

547
00:34:05,676 --> 00:34:10,236
Speaker 1: To Rick's fort and the remains spot in Dark Canyon,

548
00:34:10,236 --> 00:34:12,596
Speaker 1: we're very close to each other. As the crow flies,

549
00:34:13,196 --> 00:34:15,516
Speaker 1: all you'd have to do is cross Payuma Road and

550
00:34:15,556 --> 00:34:18,476
Speaker 1: find a place to drop over the side. Not that

551
00:34:18,516 --> 00:34:21,636
Speaker 1: it would be easy. You'd be trespassing and it would

552
00:34:21,636 --> 00:34:25,516
Speaker 1: be steep and treacherous, but Jay's sure Rick would have

553
00:34:25,556 --> 00:34:28,476
Speaker 1: known how to get in there. He tells me Rick

554
00:34:28,516 --> 00:34:31,396
Speaker 1: had been growing pot in Dark Canyon since the seventies.

555
00:34:32,636 --> 00:34:36,796
Speaker 3: You know, he knew almost every trail up there, probably

556
00:34:37,516 --> 00:34:40,596
Speaker 3: you know, and places where there were no trails.

557
00:34:40,636 --> 00:34:44,516
Speaker 1: And sure he can only think of one reason for

558
00:34:44,636 --> 00:34:46,156
Speaker 1: my trees to be in Dark Canyon.

559
00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:49,876
Speaker 3: I don't think she'd have any interest to go up

560
00:34:49,956 --> 00:34:50,476
Speaker 3: in their.

561
00:34:50,316 --> 00:34:50,756
Speaker 2: Head at all.

562
00:34:51,916 --> 00:34:52,716
Speaker 7: Why would you?

563
00:34:53,196 --> 00:35:01,436
Speaker 3: And somebody's luring her off, you know, hum or she's unconscious.

564
00:35:01,676 --> 00:35:01,996
Speaker 3: I don't know.

565
00:35:03,716 --> 00:35:06,076
Speaker 1: And he can really only think of one person who

566
00:35:06,116 --> 00:35:07,116
Speaker 1: would have taken her there.

567
00:35:09,116 --> 00:35:12,156
Speaker 3: I think morrow morning you might have something to do

568
00:35:12,236 --> 00:35:13,116
Speaker 3: with the tony truth.

569
00:35:16,036 --> 00:35:18,476
Speaker 1: Two days after our meeting, in the parking lot of

570
00:35:18,476 --> 00:35:20,836
Speaker 1: the sporting goods store, I get a call from Jay.

571
00:35:21,556 --> 00:35:24,276
Speaker 1: It's a Saturday night, and I met a friend's art show.

572
00:35:25,076 --> 00:35:27,956
Speaker 1: I go outside so I can hear him better. His

573
00:35:28,116 --> 00:35:31,196
Speaker 1: voice comes frail and ready through the phone that's pressed

574
00:35:31,276 --> 00:35:35,116
Speaker 1: up against my ear. Jay says he just remembered something

575
00:35:35,636 --> 00:35:37,396
Speaker 1: and he wanted to tell me because he thinks it

576
00:35:37,476 --> 00:35:40,796
Speaker 1: might be important. He says, around the time of my

577
00:35:40,876 --> 00:35:45,036
Speaker 1: Teresa's disappearance, Rick had started growing weed in Dark Canyon. Again,

578
00:35:47,716 --> 00:35:51,516
Speaker 1: Haley and I are learning Rick wasn't just a charming rogue.

579
00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:56,596
Speaker 1: He wasn't just a danger to himself. He had a

580
00:35:56,676 --> 00:36:00,316
Speaker 1: lengthy criminal history going back to the eighties, and as

581
00:36:00,356 --> 00:36:03,836
Speaker 1: we start sifting through it, we notice a clear trajectory

582
00:36:04,636 --> 00:36:09,036
Speaker 1: increasingly reckless behavior with drugs and alcohol, punctuated by increasing

583
00:36:09,356 --> 00:36:15,956
Speaker 1: violent attacks on women. He was extremely incorrigibly abusive, and

584
00:36:15,996 --> 00:36:21,796
Speaker 1: the women in his life bore the brunt of his rage.

585
00:36:26,916 --> 00:36:28,116
Speaker 1: Next time on Lost.

586
00:36:27,916 --> 00:36:32,916
Speaker 7: Hills, he used to beat her. When they'd argue, he'd

587
00:36:32,956 --> 00:36:35,596
Speaker 7: punch her, she'd take off running. Sometimes she'd run to

588
00:36:35,636 --> 00:36:39,516
Speaker 7: my house and hide, you know, and he'd come over

589
00:36:39,596 --> 00:36:42,636
Speaker 7: and I'd stand up to. He could kick my ass,

590
00:36:42,636 --> 00:36:43,516
Speaker 7: but I'd stand up to.

591
00:36:45,516 --> 00:36:55,316
Speaker 1: That's next in episode nine, Fearful Witness. Lost Hills is

592
00:36:55,356 --> 00:36:59,076
Speaker 1: written and hosted by Me Dana Goodyear. It was reported

593
00:36:59,076 --> 00:37:02,796
Speaker 1: by me and Hayley Fox, our senior producer. The show

594
00:37:02,916 --> 00:37:06,636
Speaker 1: was created by me and Benadere. Lost Hills is a

595
00:37:06,636 --> 00:37:15,636
Speaker 1: production of Western Sound and Putushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin

596
00:37:15,716 --> 00:37:18,516
Speaker 1: Plus and you can binge the whole season right now

597
00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:22,316
Speaker 1: ad free. Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Tail show

598
00:37:22,356 --> 00:37:26,636
Speaker 1: page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, slash

599
00:37:26,916 --> 00:37:28,116
Speaker 1: plus