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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristin. Kristin. Here's

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Speaker 1: a question we get a lot for our listeners. Are

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Speaker 1: women really worse drivers than men? Yes, the ultimate gender stereotype.

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Speaker 1: It is a gender stereotype, and a bet a few

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Speaker 1: of you when you saw the title of today's podcast

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Speaker 1: in your iTunes que were sort of like, really, really,

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Speaker 1: Molly and Kristin, you're gonna go there? Isn't it a

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Speaker 1: little too basic to get behind the wheel on stereo?

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Speaker 1: You are starting early with the I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: these cranked up here, Molly, Well, we are. We are

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Speaker 1: going to go back because once we started to research

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Speaker 1: it as usual, there's some pretty interesting stuff behind the stereotype,

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Speaker 1: not quite as basic as we thought. And my fondest

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Speaker 1: hope is that this podcast will prove both my father

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Speaker 1: and my brother is wrong about my driving abilities. Well,

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Speaker 1: do you get some some flak from the men in

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Speaker 1: your family? I do, and I think it's unnecessary not

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Speaker 1: saying I'm a perfect driver. But I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: they are better drivers than I am. Yeah, I will

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Speaker 1: say that I prefer to drive, uh without my dad

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Speaker 1: in the car. He just oh, he just grips the

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Speaker 1: door handle, Yeah, really tightly. And how is that not

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Speaker 1: supposed to affect you. That's gonna make you feel worse.

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Speaker 1: It's going to affect your important, your performance, And they're

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Speaker 1: just undermunning you before you even start, anytime you start

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Speaker 1: to put on the brakes. Grip tight grip. Well, Molly,

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Speaker 1: let's get down to breast text and gins to this question.

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Speaker 1: So let's start out with a study from January two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven. This comes from in SNBC dot com and

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Speaker 1: they're is a guy named David Gerrard from Carnegie Mellon

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Speaker 1: University who co a third a study on road risk

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Speaker 1: and he found that mail drivers have a seventy seven

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Speaker 1: percent higher risk of dying in a car accident than

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Speaker 1: women based on miles driven. And he admitted, and I

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Speaker 1: found this a pretty telling quote in this article that

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Speaker 1: he lets his wife drive based on the research he

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Speaker 1: had done and putting together this database of all these

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Speaker 1: traffic incidents, he lets his wife drive. She's the safest

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Speaker 1: person to have behind the wheel according to his research. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the um demographic that is most at risk for

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Speaker 1: fatalities on the road are mail drivers ages sixteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty three, and their fatality rates are four times higher

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Speaker 1: than average. And that's one reason why car insurance premiums

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Speaker 1: for young male drivers will often be much higher, up

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Speaker 1: to higher than car insurance premiums for teen female drivers.

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Speaker 1: Right now out, once you reach a certain age, women

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Speaker 1: are more at risk of dying in a car accident.

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Speaker 1: He gave the case of an eighty two year old

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Speaker 1: woman and basically, they are risk of dying because they

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Speaker 1: are old. Real and I think that this is where

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Speaker 1: you're going to see that there are just so many

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Speaker 1: caveats when you start discussing these traffic statistics, and that

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Speaker 1: you know, he made the overall claim that women were

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Speaker 1: safer drivers, but then a lot of the articles about

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Speaker 1: this poor eighty two year old woman hypothetical who is

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Speaker 1: at the highest risk of dying because there are so

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Speaker 1: many different factors that you have to take into account

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Speaker 1: when you evaluate road risk. UM. For instance, he says

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Speaker 1: one of the riskiest combinations in the database where men

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Speaker 1: between ages one and twenty four driving motorcycles between midnight

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Speaker 1: and four am, and their road fatality risk was forty

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Speaker 1: five thousand times higher than normal. Because you have, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the age cohort that tends to drive more reckless

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Speaker 1: than others. You have motorcycles which you're apparently more dangerous

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Speaker 1: than you have the hours between midnight and four am,

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Speaker 1: when you have drunk drivers on the road and limited visibility,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of factors. So it is very hard, it

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Speaker 1: will be hard throughout this podcast to separate out all

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Speaker 1: these sort of you know, coexisting factors. But you brought

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Speaker 1: up the fact that for teen drivers, uh, the premiums

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Speaker 1: are lower for women or for teenage girls than than

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Speaker 1: teenage boys. So why don't we go into some findings

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Speaker 1: that the Wall Street Journal published just this week about

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Speaker 1: teenage drivers. Yeah, the Wall Street Journal reported that insurance

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Speaker 1: premiums four teen girl drivers are on the rise because

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Speaker 1: of likely because of an increase in insurance claims among

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Speaker 1: that group. And along with that, All State Insurance Company

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Speaker 1: published a survey that it commissioned about the teen driving habits,

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Speaker 1: which found that forty percent of the girls said that

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Speaker 1: they were likely to drive ten miles over the speed

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Speaker 1: limit as compared to thirty six percent of the boys

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Speaker 1: who admitted to speeding. And then of those girls, six

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Speaker 1: characterize their own driving is aggressive, up from only nine

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Speaker 1: percent in two thousand five when they did last time

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Speaker 1: they did this team driving survey, and just over half

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Speaker 1: of the girls said they're likely to drive all talking

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Speaker 1: on the phone or texting my pet peeves up compared

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Speaker 1: with thirty eight percent of the boys. And the findings

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Speaker 1: from this all States study or survey, I should say

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Speaker 1: or really surprising to the people conducting it, because women

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Speaker 1: are characteristically far more cautious behind the wheel than guys are.

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Speaker 1: And the study survey authors wondered whether you know this

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Speaker 1: actually reflected a shift in teen girl attitudes. Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: they were self reporting riskier driving behavior as a way

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Speaker 1: to insert their assert themselves and keep up with the boys. Now,

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Speaker 1: self reported surveys are always troubling. Mean you can't take

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Speaker 1: them with You have to take them with a grain

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Speaker 1: of salt because people could lie. And maybe and that

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Speaker 1: was a straight out quote from the I'll say people,

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Speaker 1: as the boys on the survey live, they are aggressive

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Speaker 1: drivers and in all states experience. Um, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that you know, as Kristen said, they brought this

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Speaker 1: really interesting question of our girls trying to keep up

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Speaker 1: with boys in terms of just you know, being perceived

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Speaker 1: as equal by taking on some of their characteristic road traits.

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Speaker 1: And I gotta say, I think that that assertion is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a stretch, just thinking about myself

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Speaker 1: at sixteen, I wasn't really trying to you know. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: once you get the keys to the car, it is,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of your first taste of independence, because

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Speaker 1: you can leave your parents house and you can really

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Speaker 1: go wherever you want. It's just you and the open road.

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Speaker 1: Let's write a song about cars, Okay? There are too many?

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Speaker 1: Too many son by Boys, Yes, and one of which

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Speaker 1: is uh one of my least favorite Beatles songs. Because

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Speaker 1: you and I were discussing before we started this podcast,

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Speaker 1: much to Molly's horror, Baby you can Drive my Car

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Speaker 1: gets on a mom my nerves. And I feel like,

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Speaker 1: now that I know this about Kristen, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use it to my utmost advantage. And just when she's weak,

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Speaker 1: when she's low, she's gonna hear my voice from over

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Speaker 1: the cubicle walls going bee beep, beep Baby. Yeah, why

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Speaker 1: would you do that, Jamie Molly, I don't know. Actually,

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Speaker 1: no good reason to do that. Cruel. It is cruel,

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Speaker 1: all right, I won't do it. But I think we

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Speaker 1: can all agree that Christen is a fool for not

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Speaker 1: liking that song. And I look forward to hearing from

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Speaker 1: all of you who hate it as well, because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you're all going to write in. I'm sure we've

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Speaker 1: sparked a mini war. Kristen, we're off topic. Bring it on, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's get back on topic. Like you mentioned, the All

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Speaker 1: State survey was based on self reporting, so you do

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Speaker 1: kind of have to take that with a grain of salt. However,

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Speaker 1: there was a study mentioned in the Telegraph that also

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Speaker 1: indicates that perhaps men are just a little bit better

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Speaker 1: at picking up driving skills than women, because it found

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Speaker 1: that girls needed an average of seven or sorry, twenty

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Speaker 1: one driving lessons before they passed their driving tests, compared

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Speaker 1: to just seventeen lessons for boys. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: men were more likely to pass their tests on driving

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Speaker 1: tests the first time around, uh, with only fifty needing

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Speaker 1: another attempt, while fifty seven percent of women had to

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Speaker 1: take a second test. Although I mean it is fifty

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Speaker 1: four and fifty seven. That great of a statistical gap, Molly,

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Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. And I think that this

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Speaker 1: article also pointed out some reasons why women might have

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Speaker 1: been a little too worked up to get the test

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Speaker 1: right the first time. It did show the women were

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Speaker 1: much more affected by nerves. They really let their emotions

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Speaker 1: get the best of them, because you know who lacks

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Speaker 1: being judged. Apparently men are better at them women, But

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Speaker 1: that's a whole another podcast. Well, and but men might

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Speaker 1: also be passing the test more because they were more

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Speaker 1: likely to try to be friend or flirt with the

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Speaker 1: examiner in order to get their past certificate. So that's

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Speaker 1: that that blows up a nice stereotype. It was so

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Speaker 1: weird just the focus this article gave on that, yes,

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Speaker 1: that women have this you know perception, this reputation as

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Speaker 1: flirting with the old fellow from the d m B

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Speaker 1: to get that pass when they can't really parallel park.

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Speaker 1: But according to this research, it's men more who are like, hey, baby,

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Speaker 1: you can drive my car. Another beatles rough from nice.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, Kristen, when I was reading all

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Speaker 1: these articles, I'm sort of like teen drivers, they're a

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Speaker 1: whole different beast. Everyone needs some practice when they're starting out.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to drivers of our age, because I do think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's let's hope my father will at least

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Speaker 1: agree with the I'm a better driver now than I

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Speaker 1: was when I was a teenager, because they still view

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Speaker 1: me as a teenager driving. But but I'm older, I'm wiser.

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Speaker 1: So let's take the teenage drivers out of the equation.

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Speaker 1: Who's a better driver now? Men or women? Well, according

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Speaker 1: to the Free Economics blog on the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: that is a very tricky question to answer. And we

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Speaker 1: kind of mentioned that earlier when we were talking about

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Speaker 1: that study published of study results published by MSNBC in

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Speaker 1: that there are so many different factors that contribute to

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Speaker 1: road risk aside from just gender. So really, just boiling

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Speaker 1: it down to um, you know, men versus women isn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily an easy thing to do, right, So it looked

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Speaker 1: at all the different ways. This is eric Ay Morris

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Speaker 1: on the Free Economics Blog, and he has a whole

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Speaker 1: series about male and female driving differences, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that matters is that men drive a lot more than women.

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Speaker 1: Their commutes are on average longer, uh, their commutes tend

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Speaker 1: to take them, maybe more on freeways than women's do. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's so you can't just look at a total of

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Speaker 1: accidents because when you look at the total of accidents,

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Speaker 1: emails have fewer accident it's total, but men are driving more.

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Speaker 1: So then you've got to look at accidents per mile driven,

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Speaker 1: so that you can look at, you know, a woman

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Speaker 1: who drives ten miles, a man who drives ten miles,

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Speaker 1: and you look at it that way, the men have

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Speaker 1: fewer accidents. Yeah, and Morris is referencing research that came

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Speaker 1: out in the mid nineteen nineties, I believe, which found

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Speaker 1: that when you look at per mile driven, women were

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Speaker 1: twelve percent more likely to get into a car crash,

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Speaker 1: and that was confirmed by another paper which found that

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Speaker 1: women were involved in six more accidents than men on

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Speaker 1: a per mile driven basis. But then when you look

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Speaker 1: at the severity of the car rex then it shifts

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Speaker 1: back to the men because the team of researchers also

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Speaker 1: found that for each mile driven, women were twenty six

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Speaker 1: percent more likely to be involved in crashes involving injuries,

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Speaker 1: but men were more likely to be involved in fatal

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Speaker 1: car accident. Right, So if a man gets in an accident,

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Speaker 1: there's a greater likelihood of of going real bad more likely. Now,

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Speaker 1: the problem that More has acknowledges with these facts is

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Speaker 1: you can't tell who's at fault in the accidents necessarily.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it may be that, uh, the man was driving,

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Speaker 1: there's a fatality, but the data is unclear on whether

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Speaker 1: you know who caused the accident. Wasn't a female driver

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Speaker 1: mail driver. So again, so many ways to qualify this data. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but you know that was the best the best you know,

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Speaker 1: look that he could give. It is that, yes, women

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Speaker 1: more accidents, men more fatal accidents. But throughout all of

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Speaker 1: this TOUMLI, the big question that kept coming up, I

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Speaker 1: think for both of us was why are we even

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Speaker 1: why are we even asking this question in the first place, Like,

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Speaker 1: where did the this idea that men kind of should

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Speaker 1: naturally be better drivers that cars are more the males

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Speaker 1: in the male territory than the female territory even come

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Speaker 1: up in the first place. I mean, it's the very

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Speaker 1: driving is not a you know, it doesn't require a

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Speaker 1: lot of higher order thinking. It seems like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's you're such a female driver person not

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Speaker 1: thinking about all the things you have to keep in mind.

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Speaker 1: I mean you kind of you can just kind of

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Speaker 1: go on on autopilot, and it just doesn't seem like

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Speaker 1: it takes an extraordinary person to be a good driver

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Speaker 1: or not. And yet it's the stereotype that we come

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Speaker 1: back to over and over against. So where where did

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Speaker 1: that come from? Well, you know, we have Eric Morris

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Speaker 1: again from fre Economics to Think, because he he did

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Speaker 1: do this really great series that I unpacked a lot

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Speaker 1: of um this male versus female behavior, and he has

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Speaker 1: a really great history that takes us back to the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the car. Now, Morris makes the case that

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Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century we've got lots of changes in

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Speaker 1: this country going on. We've got industrialization and we've got surburbanization.

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Speaker 1: So yes, there are all these jobs to drive to,

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Speaker 1: but you've got to drive farther to get to them.

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Speaker 1: So with both of those shifts, at the same time,

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Speaker 1: we have the home being established even more so as

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Speaker 1: the woman's sphere. While the men would travel outside of

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Speaker 1: the home, you know, to to the factories or wherever

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Speaker 1: to go to work, and in doing so they would

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Speaker 1: be more likely to use some kind of new fangled

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Speaker 1: transportation whether that would be uh, you know, a street

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Speaker 1: car or a horse car or the model T Now

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Speaker 1: if the if the house is the woman's sphere, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have an easier way to

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Speaker 1: get out and about. You could see how men who

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Speaker 1: wanted to keep women out of their offices they may

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Speaker 1: have been threatened by increasing levels of female education at

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Speaker 1: the time, would have been like, well, lady, yes, yes

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Speaker 1: you can go to work, but you cannot you cannot

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Speaker 1: be driving this car. Yeah, try A woman traveling outside

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Speaker 1: of the home unaccompanied, especially for upper class women, was

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Speaker 1: seen as very unladylike. I mean, you wouldn't want to

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Speaker 1: traverse the dusty streets, you know, and get dirt all

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Speaker 1: over your new frock you were just wear driving gloves.

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Speaker 1: There are all sorts of ways to make driving very feminine, um,

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Speaker 1: because you know, man going to work was seen as

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Speaker 1: a norm, and thus if you were driving to work yourself,

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Speaker 1: you had to, you know, show that you were still feminine. Well,

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Speaker 1: in the process of getting a car started back in

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Speaker 1: the day was not as simple as it was today

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Speaker 1: because they would have the hand cranks and obviously a woman,

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Speaker 1: you know, popping a hood and cranking up. Using the

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Speaker 1: hand crank to crank up a car again wasn't seen

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Speaker 1: as as very ladylike or appropriate, even though it really

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Speaker 1: wasn't something that women wouldn't necessarily be strong enough to do,

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Speaker 1: although that's how it's often portrayed. Um, but it's really

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Speaker 1: just a socialization thing, like, lady, you can't crank this car. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am your big masculine man. I shall crank your car.

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Speaker 1: Let me do this for you. So as a result,

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Speaker 1: very few women had driver's licenses. Families had one car

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Speaker 1: that the man of to work. Uh, you know, women

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Speaker 1: would be driven to the grocery stores. Uh. There were

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Speaker 1: a lot of political movements at the time to ban

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Speaker 1: women from driving all together. But then we've got the

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Speaker 1: good old free market coming and saving women just a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Because the carmakers realized that they had sort

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Speaker 1: of hit a saturation point in terms of selling cars

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Speaker 1: to men. You know, every family now had a car.

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Speaker 1: It seems like the epitome of success. And the carmakers

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Speaker 1: were like, car, family should need two cars, will sell

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Speaker 1: them to the other adult in the family. Yeah. This

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Speaker 1: really starts in the nineteen twenties, and uh, you see

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Speaker 1: a shift in advertising automobile advertising targeted towards female consumption.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because those kind of ads would focus

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Speaker 1: on more of the superficial aspects of cars, such as, oh,

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Speaker 1: look at this lovely color or the soft, buttery upholstery,

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Speaker 1: things like that, which I think is still you still

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Speaker 1: see that in car as today. It's not a new

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Speaker 1: for know and on. In the very beginning, cars were

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Speaker 1: sold to women as stylish accessories as opposed to rugged

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Speaker 1: utilitarian like you know, you know, look at how much

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Speaker 1: horsepower this manly truck has, and then look at the

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Speaker 1: cute decorative flower vase and this Volkswagen beetle, and you

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Speaker 1: know what, the Volkswagen always ranks at the top of

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Speaker 1: cars that women are more likely to drive than men.

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Speaker 1: You found a list of the top nine vehicles that

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Speaker 1: get sold to women more often in Volkswagen holds the

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Speaker 1: top two positions top two positions. And this came from

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Speaker 1: the l A. Times. I believe it came out last year,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of these are two thousand, two thousand

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Speaker 1: nine models. But I would assume that, uh, the information

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Speaker 1: probably still hold street today because the Beetle, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: is almost always at the top of this list, but

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine it was actually beat out by

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Speaker 1: the Volkswagen TI one. So you say it, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I have to say like i'd heard of the Jiguan before.

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Speaker 1: I hoviously, I do fulfill sort of that female stereotype

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Speaker 1: of not knowing much about cars, and when I got

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Speaker 1: my first car, to put a red sweater in the

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Speaker 1: front seat so i'd always know which car was mine.

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Speaker 1: It's a good idea, but I do think that you know,

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Speaker 1: that idea of being sold a car that you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't know that much about your You know, your

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Speaker 1: dad or your boyfriend is the one who figures out

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Speaker 1: the horsepower or the mouse per gallon. You're just concerned

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Speaker 1: with cup holders or this new thing that carmakers are

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Speaker 1: starting to bring out, where you know, here's a stiletto

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Speaker 1: friendly pedal. Yeah, this is so far just something that

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Speaker 1: the Chevy Equinox has gone for. It has it comes

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Speaker 1: with an optional heel pedal, and it's the first and

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Speaker 1: only car model with a female friendly uh pedal um,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure plenty of women who never wear stilettos

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Speaker 1: would probably take. A fence that seems um kind of

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Speaker 1: ridiculous to think about a stiletto friendly hell. But there

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Speaker 1: was a video on a Time magazine's website where one

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Speaker 1: of the reporters went out with very high set of

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Speaker 1: heels on and she she drove drove the new Equinox

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Speaker 1: around and she said that it was actually a lot

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Speaker 1: easier for pressing the gas down, but the it was

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Speaker 1: still kind of uncomfortable to use the brake pedal. And

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Speaker 1: I gotta say a lot of times, if I'm driving

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Speaker 1: around with heels, let's drive barefoot and pop them off,

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Speaker 1: because it is hard. It does feel kind of dangerous

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Speaker 1: if you're driving in a really high set of heels.

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Speaker 1: So even though those things might seem offensive, like you

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Speaker 1: were saying, Kristen, there is a reason why cars are

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Speaker 1: still sold to us this way. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: good to know that, you know, it's it's an old thing.

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Speaker 1: We've been fighting the stereotype for a long time. We've

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Speaker 1: always been sort of treated as the inferior where cars

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Speaker 1: are um concerned, and sometimes women might take that as

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Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy, and sometimes women might really take

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Speaker 1: grievance with it. But I think it's good to remember

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Speaker 1: that driving is, you know, it's a new phenomenon. We're

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Speaker 1: very new to driving, you know, comparatively, and so just

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Speaker 1: really briefly, we want to broad it out and talk

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Speaker 1: about female drivers in Saudi Arabia. Yeah, because this was

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Speaker 1: something really interesting to look at, especially when we were

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Speaker 1: uh we learned about sort of the history, the social

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Speaker 1: history of driving in the US and what a big

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Speaker 1: taboo it was for women earlier in the twentieth century

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Speaker 1: to get behind the wheel. Because this is something that's

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Speaker 1: still going on in Saudi Arabia, and uh, there might

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Speaker 1: be might be a little bit more opportunity for women

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Speaker 1: women drivers opening up in that country very soon, right,

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Speaker 1: because these drivers have been living under a band. Female

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Speaker 1: drivers are banned from driving in Saudi Arabia thanks to

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Speaker 1: an event that happened in in which women took you know,

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Speaker 1: they started driving around in these streets as this silent

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Speaker 1: protests for women's rights, and so that caused this big

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Speaker 1: crackdown on female drivers. They're all these proclamations that women

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Speaker 1: driving were a force of evil. It was a sign,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the end of the world. Because it

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Speaker 1: was a sign I mean, like like we were talking about,

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Speaker 1: driving is a form of independence. If you live in

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Speaker 1: a country where women's rights and women's independence are not

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Speaker 1: value valued, then the most you know, visible symbol you

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Speaker 1: can make of that is to take away their cars.

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Speaker 1: And all of that sprang from the actions of just

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Speaker 1: forty nine women in fifteen cars driving through re odd.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not even it's a pretty small protests

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, that had these enormous ripple effects.

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Speaker 1: And uh, The Guardian mentions that a study in two

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Speaker 1: thousand four showed that of Saudi women owned a car.

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Speaker 1: But we're entirely dependent on men in the family to

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Speaker 1: drive them or they had to hire drivers, and some

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Speaker 1: women will even have their underage sons drive them just

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Speaker 1: to you know, get Aaron's donne or make sure that

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Speaker 1: they don't get caught driving a car. Yeah, so, I

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Speaker 1: mean it sounds, you know, it sounds sort of, you

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Speaker 1: know crazy. When I was fishing this article is like whoa,

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Speaker 1: That's that's a good way to sum it up. I

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Speaker 1: was like, whoa. But then when you look at the

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Speaker 1: history of women and driving in a country and it

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Speaker 1: it honestly doesn't seem so different and definitely not as restrictive.

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Speaker 1: But it's very interesting to see over time and the

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Speaker 1: reason we should mention that that's popped up in the

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Speaker 1: news in the first place is because there has been

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Speaker 1: a rumor um that Saudi women will be allowed to

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Speaker 1: drive within the next two months. Yeah, so it seems

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Speaker 1: like such a given for us. Like we said, my

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Speaker 1: you know, driving really is the ultimate independence when you

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Speaker 1: whether you're a boy or a girl. When she turned

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Speaker 1: sixteen and you get the keys to the car and

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Speaker 1: you can go out on the road. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: still remember being sixteen seventeen and just a feeling turn

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Speaker 1: it on the radio, cranking up my jam and driving

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Speaker 1: down the road alone. It's a it's a huge it's

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Speaker 1: a huge thing. So it'll be, uh, it'll be an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing to see what happens in Saudi Arabia and

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Speaker 1: see if um, I guess, other women's rights kind of

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Speaker 1: following suit with something as basic as as driving. Maybe

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Speaker 1: if that happens, Um and Molly, I think that we

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00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: should definitely give a shout out to Scott and Ben

416
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: over at High Speed Stuff another one of our uh

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Speaker 1: how stuff works family podcasts because they have done um,

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Speaker 1: they've done some episodes dealing with women behind the wheel

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Speaker 1: as well, and it's just a good it's a handy podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's a great podcast if you want to learn more

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Speaker 1: about your car. Hi your car works, cool cars, Yep,

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00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: listen to Hi Speed Stuff, High Speed Stuff. Um. So

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Speaker 1: with that, Molly, why don't we do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of listener mail? All right? So I've got an email

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Speaker 1: here from Sheridan Uh. She writes about our tattooed podcasts.

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Speaker 1: She writes, I was a little surprised when you didn't

427
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: mention henna tattoos and your tattoo podcast. Although henna tattoos

428
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: aren't real tattoos, they're just staying in the skin, I

429
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: think they're still important to consider when talking about tattoos

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00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: and feminism. Hannah is more feminine the mask in its

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00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: most designs are flowers or more pretty girly designs. They're

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00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: meant to be beautiful, and in India used as a

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00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: marriage ritual. The brides will get handed all over their

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00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: body and sometimes they're ands initials be hidden in the

435
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: design and he has to find them. My mom and

436
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: I both do Hannah for ourselves and friends, and I

437
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: get lots of comments and how beautiful the designs are.

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00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: Unlike real tattoos, you don't have to worry about long

439
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: term effects or misconceptions about your personality, because if you

440
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: don't like it, you can wash it and it will

441
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: come off sooner. Or if you do like it, you

442
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: can always reapply it. I find Hannah a great temporary

443
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: way to express myself without causing damage to my body

444
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: or my reputation. So that's from Sheridan and alternative to tattooing.

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00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: All right, well, I've got one here from Anne and

446
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: she says this has also been reference to our Tattooed podcasts,

447
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: And she has three tattoos already and is planning her fourth.

448
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: And she said, I was interested in hearing how you

449
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: think that no matter where a woman gets a tattoo,

450
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: it can be sexualized. I think I have an example

451
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: of when it is not. And it also happens to

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00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: relate to my next tattoo. And she goes on to

453
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: say that, um, she's thirty years old and she is

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00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: actually a widow, and um, she wants to get a

455
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: memorial tattoo for her husband, which is apparently very amen,

456
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: especially among um, younger younger widows. And she says, some

457
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: people get names are important symbols, some are large, some

458
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: are small, but all our tributes of love. Some people

459
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: even get ash mixed in with the ink. She said,

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00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: I didn't have my husband cremated, so that's an option

461
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: for me. I'm still waiting to set up my appointment

462
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: because I'm waiting for the super great artist I've found.

463
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: But when I get it, I'm having the drawing my

464
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: husband made for our wedding program, as he was an artist,

465
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: um and it's not only his original art. It's a

466
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: beautiful picture full of symbolism and also to me, a

467
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: personal tribute I can make to him without its seeming

468
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: obvious that this is a memorial tattoo, unless I choose

469
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: to pee, to choose to tell people. She says, So,

470
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Do you think that these memorial tattoos can

471
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: be construed as sexual as well? And that's an interesting question.

472
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: And Molly, what do you think? Well? I think that

473
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, if someone doesn't know that it is a

474
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: memorial tattoo on first glance, they may make that assumption.

475
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: But you know, the thing I've been struck with all

476
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: the emails we've gotten about tattoos is that everyone seems

477
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: to have a really cool story and symbolism with their

478
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: tattoo and I think that once you know that about

479
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: a person, it's it's impossible to see these tattoos as sexual.

480
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: So it's all about knowing the meaning behind and not

481
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: making a judgment on a superficial assumption. Well said, what

482
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: shall we do one more? Of course? All right, and

483
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: the close things out. I've got an email here from Amelia,

484
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: and this is also about our tattoo podcast, but she

485
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: doesn't really like the sources that we use. She said, well,

486
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your take on modern tattooing and women.

487
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: Your information on tattooed ladies in history didn't live up

488
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: to your usual good research practices. Christine brown Burger's assay

489
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: Revolting Beauty relies on two sources with information on tattooing history,

490
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: which are Margaret Mifflin's Bodies of Subversion and Albert Perry's

491
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: Tattoos Secrets of the Strange Artists Practiced by the Natives

492
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: of the United States, Originally published in nineteen thirty three.

493
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: Perry's full of book is full of stigma and scorn

494
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: about tattooing and contains very little actual fact. The best

495
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: this book does is illustrate how much stigma existed towards

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00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: tattooing in the nineteen thirties. Unfortunately, many researchers have relied

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00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: on his book for factual historical information. Um and she

498
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: goes on to point out some some issues that she

499
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: has with both of those sources, and she says, I

500
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: would also argue that early tattooed performing women worked as

501
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: feminists and getting tattooing much more visible for the years

502
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: before the artistic tattoo revolution the nineteen seventies, these ladies

503
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: didn't consider themselves feminists, but simply women who were doing

504
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: something a little different and an attempt to make their

505
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: lives more comfortable boy choosing a fairly well paid career,

506
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: which I guess if you think about it, is sort

507
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: of a type of feminism. So thanks for writing in Amelia,

508
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: and of course, if you guys have any questions, concerns,

509
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: thoughts who'd like to share with me and Molly, email

510
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: us at Mom's Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

511
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: During the week, you should check out our Facebook page.

512
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: It's Facebook dot com backslash stuff Mom never told you.

513
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: We also have a Twitter account that we would love

514
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: for you guys to follow as well, and we are

515
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcasts on Twitter. And then finally, we

516
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: have a blog that we update regularly during the week

517
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: and it's found at how stuff works dot com. For

518
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, is a

519
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works,

520
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot

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00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you