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Speaker 2: podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: And now we want to get to the micro and
Speaker 3: in particular one name in the equity world that we
Speaker 3: are focusing on big time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Pfizer shares rallying right now, higher by two point
Speaker 4: five percent on a day when the rest of the
Speaker 4: market is lower. It's up the most in more than
Speaker 4: five months. The stock we should know it though just
Speaker 4: a little changed this year. According to a person familiar
Speaker 4: with the matter. Activist investors Starboard Value has taken a
Speaker 4: stake of about one billion dollars in Pfizer and it's
Speaker 4: seeking to spur a turnaround of the pharma giant. This
Speaker 4: is according to a person Carol familiar with the matter.
Speaker 3: All right, so let's get to it. Let's get more,
Speaker 3: because it does seem like COVID has certainly affected this
Speaker 3: company and they're trying to figure out what's next for them.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News Health reporter Madison Muller back in our studio,
Speaker 3: Good to have you here. Pfizer, like one of the
Speaker 3: darlings right during covid is, Did they really think that
Speaker 3: the COVID vaccine was going to be there keep them
Speaker 3: going and going for years to come, Like, is that
Speaker 3: what this is about?
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 6: I do think that a lot of people thought during
Speaker 6: the pandemic that there was going to be a longer
Speaker 6: tail to COVID, and Pfeiser has certainly said that, like that,
Speaker 6: the demand has declined a lot more rapidly for the
Speaker 6: vaccine and their treatment than they anticipated. But that being said,
Speaker 6: I mean in the farmer world, CEOs are always looking
Speaker 6: to what's next, Like that is not something that's new,
Speaker 6: that's the minute you have a blockbuster. We talked about
Speaker 6: Lily all the time on the show, Like they are
Speaker 6: already thinking about and looking at what's next. They are
Speaker 6: so not settled on obesity. They want to be prepared
Speaker 6: for the future. So that's something that all pharma CEOs
Speaker 6: should be and are talking about frequently. So to say
Speaker 6: that they didn't know that this was going to happen
Speaker 6: is kind of you know, naive.
Speaker 4: But we should go back and understand how big of
Speaker 4: a boost tran Advisor's top and bottom lines the COVID
Speaker 4: vaccine was. In your piece, you said that the vaccine
Speaker 4: had treatment more than doubled revenue to one hundred billion
Speaker 4: dollars in twenty twenty two from forty two billion back
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty.
Speaker 7: That's a boost.
Speaker 6: That's a huge boosts, right, huge boosts. And you know,
Speaker 6: it's not like they haven't been trying to prepare for
Speaker 6: what's next. The CEO, Albert Borla, has done a number
Speaker 6: of deals in recent years. They're trying to replenish their pipeline.
Speaker 6: But I think, I mean, this is the problem, is
Speaker 6: that investors are not happy with the deals that they've
Speaker 6: done so far. It has not replenished those revenues quickly enough.
Speaker 6: And they did this enormous siege in deal last year
Speaker 6: forty three billion dollars, and that you know, that has
Speaker 6: given them a stable of good cancer drugs, potential blockbusters. However,
Speaker 6: again it's not happening quickly enough. They are not reaping
Speaker 6: the rewards of that quickly enough and as fast as
Speaker 6: investors had hoped.
Speaker 3: What do you think, you know, I had a brother
Speaker 3: who worked in the pharmaceutical industry for a long time,
Speaker 3: and we always talked about this. He's like, listen, R
Speaker 3: and D. We spend a lot. You know, this is
Speaker 3: why they charge a lot, because they put a lot
Speaker 3: of drugs out and maybe one will be a blockbuster,
Speaker 3: but a lot of times they're not. You understand this world.
Speaker 3: So again, is it just this is the business and
Speaker 3: they're in a lull or is there something a little
Speaker 3: bit more complicated going on at Peiser?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think that that's one of the
Speaker 6: things that we're thinking Starboards sort of like getting involved
Speaker 6: to figure out are these bad deals? Is it just
Speaker 6: bad luck? I mean, like you said, bad luck in
Speaker 6: pharma is is a huge part of it. We've talked
Speaker 6: about that again with Lily like they kind of ignored
Speaker 6: obesity for a number of years, thinking it wasn't going
Speaker 6: to be a big thing, and then it came back
Speaker 6: into style so to speak, within pharma, and that just
Speaker 6: is kind of what happens. There's like these ebbs and
Speaker 6: flows of people not being interested in neuro and then
Speaker 6: they are interested in neuro again, and then there's because
Speaker 6: there's like one breakthrough and one company that does really
Speaker 6: well and has a really successful drug and then everyone
Speaker 6: else sort of rushes into it.
Speaker 5: So it's I mean, I guess.
Speaker 6: It remains to be seen what's gonna happen with Pfizer,
Speaker 6: And we're still trying to get more details about you
Speaker 6: know what this what Starboard is looking at.
Speaker 3: But they've got a form Pfizer CEO helping them, right, yes, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's kind of interesting to me Formerfesser CEO, and I've
Speaker 3: talked about knowing the fide right, yeah, what do you
Speaker 3: what what do you make of that? And what do
Speaker 3: you how are you guys thinking about that?
Speaker 6: I mean, these people know the business obviously, and to
Speaker 6: have I mean, it's interesting. We were looking at some
Speaker 6: of the other healthcare you know, the things that that
Speaker 6: Starboard has gotten involved in healthcare, so we have they
Speaker 6: got involved with Bristol Myers, they got involved with Magell
Speaker 6: and Humana, and we were kind of like looking at
Speaker 6: their track record a little bit, and you know, it
Speaker 6: could help having the former CEO CFO of the company
Speaker 6: sort of on board, but we just don't know what
Speaker 6: capacity they would be serving in or involved in going forward.
Speaker 4: I don't remember the last time you were on our program,
Speaker 4: not talking about g LP one.
Speaker 7: We're not.
Speaker 3: It's like we had an altered universe.
Speaker 4: Alter universe, because that's part of the Pfizer it is. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a big part of the Pfiser story. When we
Speaker 4: talk about g LP ones, we talk about uh products
Speaker 4: from companies like Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly. What's the
Speaker 4: status of what Pfizer has been trying to develop when
Speaker 4: it comes to GLP once.
Speaker 6: So, Pfizer has been trying to develop a pill, and
Speaker 6: like we've talked about that is likely to be the
Speaker 6: next big thing in obesity, but they their efforts have
Speaker 6: not gone so well so far. They had one pill
Speaker 6: that they just had to discontinue entirely, another one twice
Speaker 6: daily pill. The rates of side effects were really high
Speaker 6: in trials, so they discontinued those trials and now they're
Speaker 6: going forward with a once daily formulation. But you know,
Speaker 6: the analysts that I've spoken to are like, we don't
Speaker 6: know if this is going to be a competitive product.
Speaker 6: I mean, they still need to see more data, but
Speaker 6: so far what they've seen is like there are so
Speaker 6: many other companies like we know that are developing pills
Speaker 6: for obesity now, and how does pfizers stack up to those.
Speaker 6: I don't really know, but you know, Albert Borlat at
Speaker 6: one point was really talking up what the company was
Speaker 6: doing in obesity and that was maybe one of the
Speaker 6: next prospects for it, and so far that hasn't gone
Speaker 6: according to plan.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. So do we know starboards endgame
Speaker 3: here or we don't.
Speaker 6: We're That's what we're still trying to figure out. If
Speaker 6: anyone knows, you're free to email me.
Speaker 3: Because what's a turnaround? Look, I mean, do they have
Speaker 3: stuff to sell or you know what I mean? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Or is it just I mean they've sold off stuff.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And it's interesting because I mean, they have this huge
Speaker 6: cancer business now and then they have all these other products,
Speaker 6: like they have vaccine, migraine drugs, so it is that
Speaker 6: is One of the things also that we've heard is
Speaker 6: that they're like em and a strategy hasn't been super focused.
Speaker 5: It's like just kind of.
Speaker 6: All over the place. And they're their big focus now
Speaker 6: is on cancer. But leading up to that siege and
Speaker 6: purchase was just like a couple of other deals that
Speaker 6: sort of unclear.
Speaker 4: Put the COVID shot just at the end of the interview,
Speaker 4: back into perspective for U, should investors think about this
Speaker 4: as like a footnote or any other sort.
Speaker 3: Of that you're going to ask her? Should I get
Speaker 3: a COVID shot?
Speaker 4: No, with my questions about that debate, I mean.
Speaker 5: It is the season flu shots. Everyone's getting them down.
Speaker 4: But investors think about that very briefly.
Speaker 5: I mean that's a good question.
Speaker 6: I think, like, I guess, it's unclear, like every every season,
Speaker 6: the demand sort of. I mean, we thought maybe there
Speaker 6: would be more demand as we moved back to like
Speaker 6: seasonal in the fall. People don't have that maybe animosity
Speaker 6: towards like the COVID shots after having to get so
Speaker 6: many in a row. But I just the demand is
Speaker 6: not there. People are very wary and I don't know, I.
Speaker 5: Think of getting all kinds of shots or so.
Speaker 3: If you get COVID, then I'm like, I'm gonna get COVID.
Speaker 4: Yeah, three weeks for the shot to kick.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, Well, then you have immunity if
Speaker 3: you're going to expose Medisin Muller. Thank you so much.
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Speaker 4: It's that time, Carol, for earnings, for earnings. It's also
Speaker 4: that time for the season booky decorations. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you if you saw this over the weekend where
Speaker 4: you live, Carol, but kind of everybody was out coming
Speaker 4: up the cobwebs, yes, accidentally dropping things off the roof.
Speaker 4: If they were trying to like spread things out. That
Speaker 4: happened to mind.
Speaker 3: I'm always opening up like windows and I'm like tucking
Speaker 3: in the cobweb and like quick slamming the window.
Speaker 9: To like hold it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little crazy, Okay, it's messy.
Speaker 4: Spiders, webs, witches, pumpkins.
Speaker 3: What about the skeletons ginormous, I believe you have to
Speaker 3: say Halloween skeletons. They're on front lawns. In the case
Speaker 3: of all of us who are in urban neighborhoods. I
Speaker 3: mean they are on so many in front of so
Speaker 3: many homes in my neighborhood, through on the front stoops
Speaker 3: or like right next to them. Wall Street journals out
Speaker 3: with a great story in fact and how these are
Speaker 3: jangling the nerves of neighbors, causing homeowners associations to not
Speaker 3: leave them up past Halloween. Basically apparently some leave them up,
Speaker 3: put a red cap on, carry them through Christmas top hat.
Speaker 3: For like I said before years, where.
Speaker 4: Are you going to store them? The giant skeletons, where
Speaker 4: are you going.
Speaker 2: To keep them?
Speaker 3: And they're giant, they're massive all right. In all, some
Speaker 3: eleven point six billion will be spent on Halloween, according
Speaker 3: to the National Retail Federation. We wanted to take a
Speaker 3: dive into what's going on in retail.
Speaker 4: Yeah, back with us for thoughts on the Halloween shopping season,
Speaker 4: also the upcoming retail season. Back with this is Katie Thomas.
Speaker 4: She's lead at the Carney Consumer Institute. It's an internal
Speaker 4: think take of global management consulting from Carney. They analyze
Speaker 4: consumer behavior, they do decision making, tell businesses address consumer needs.
Speaker 4: She joins us once again from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I'll be
Speaker 4: before we talk about what's happening in the next few months,
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the impact of these storms. Milton in Florida.
Speaker 4: People are preparing for this to hit in the coming days.
Speaker 4: I'm wondering and especially people still over the last week
Speaker 4: and now cleaning up from Helene just in recent days.
Speaker 4: What effect is that going to have on the consumer
Speaker 4: outlook this season?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think you definitely see consumers responding.
Speaker 8: What tends to happen sometimes, tim with these big news
Speaker 8: stories is you see these little dips in spend as
Speaker 8: people are sort of drawn to their TV and they're
Speaker 8: just not thinking about, you know, going out doing some
Speaker 8: of that shopping.
Speaker 9: It tends to be.
Speaker 8: More around the bigger purchases where the uncertainty is not
Speaker 8: driving spend. But one thing that's hard to say is
Speaker 8: really how much you'll see it across the country versus
Speaker 8: just small regional impacts, because in general, we've found that
Speaker 8: Halloween decorating has provided actually some certainty in uncertain times,
Speaker 8: and a lot of consumers have embraced exactly what you're describing,
Speaker 8: the decor, the candy, some of the trade around the holiday.
Speaker 8: But you know, you certainly see some of these natural
Speaker 8: disasters really weighing on consumers, especially those impacted.
Speaker 3: In general, Like prior to the storm, how are consumers feeling,
Speaker 3: you know, right now in.
Speaker 8: The US, you're seeing that continued sort of mismatch between
Speaker 8: how consumers say they're feeling and what the numbers actually say.
Speaker 8: So consumers still continue to voice to us that they're
Speaker 8: fairly stressed, but that stress is also stayed stable. We
Speaker 8: haven't seen it go up and up in stress. We've
Speaker 8: seen a little bit of an uptick and concerns around
Speaker 8: the cost of living, but for the most part, they're
Speaker 8: embracing where we are. And I think, in particular, once
Speaker 8: we get through the election, we expect even more stability
Speaker 8: for the US consumer because that uncertainty that can restrict
Speaker 8: a little bit of spending will then.
Speaker 4: Go away regardless of who wins the election.
Speaker 8: Yeah, honestly regardless, because it's just living in that waiting game.
Speaker 9: I mean, that's what we saw all through.
Speaker 8: COVID, right we were really dealing with the anxiety of
Speaker 8: consumers of like not knowing what's going to happen next.
Speaker 8: So I actually anticipate a solid holiday season because people
Speaker 8: do like to spend the holidays and will be through
Speaker 8: some of that frustration and uncertainty that is distracting all
Speaker 8: of us right now.
Speaker 9: And that's another thing.
Speaker 8: Halloween is a welcome distraction from living.
Speaker 9: As someone who lives in a swing state.
Speaker 8: I can't tell you how many texts I get in
Speaker 8: any given day, so I'll take all the skeletons.
Speaker 9: I can get.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 5: Hey, do things like.
Speaker 3: Amazon Prime Day kicking off tomorrow two days like we were.
Speaker 4: Kind of Prime days.
Speaker 3: We were laughing in the newsroom a little bit like, wait,
Speaker 3: do they do this twice a year now.
Speaker 4: Over the summers multiple days as well? Yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: know if it's Prime Day anymore?
Speaker 3: Does this really move the needle?
Speaker 8: Well, this is really you know, what we're seeing is
Speaker 8: a kickoff to the holiday season. So this is another
Speaker 8: carryover both with Halloween and with the winter holiday seasons
Speaker 8: that we've seen from the pandemic, which is longer season.
Speaker 8: So Halloween used to be a little bit more concentrated
Speaker 8: in the mind of October. Now you're seeing Halloween decor
Speaker 8: or go out in stores in August. People are decorating
Speaker 8: in September of really leaning into it. It's similarly like
Speaker 8: this is a bit of a kickoff to the holiday season.
Speaker 8: Now some people of their organized start to pick up
Speaker 8: stuff now during these deal days, but we still hear
Speaker 8: from a lot of consumers that they're really not ready
Speaker 8: until it's a lot closer to the actual holidays.
Speaker 3: Can I just tell you this Wall Street Journal story
Speaker 3: which gets into these giant skeletons on the giant skeleton.
Speaker 9: I am.
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed ever since Lisa Matteo mentioned it on surveillance
Speaker 3: this morning, I can't let go home. Depots twelve foot
Speaker 3: Skelley has sold that every year since it clanked onto
Speaker 3: the Halloween Day coursene in twenty twenty. Retailer sells the
Speaker 3: two hundred and ninety nine dollars Skelly earlier and earlier,
Speaker 3: with limited online sales this year starting in April. It
Speaker 3: limits how many shoppers can buy, allowing only one at
Speaker 3: a time to deter reselling. Again, this is in the
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal. I mean, they just like, all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, we're nowhere, and now they're everywhere. And I
Speaker 3: know in my neighborhood, like I said, we all have
Speaker 3: like twelve feet maybe in front a little bit like
Speaker 3: not much frontage, and they're there.
Speaker 4: I kind of thought this was like a pandemic thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And then it turns out the pandemic followed twenty twenty
Speaker 4: and then and that was sort of the consumer spending, right,
Speaker 4: Nobody was doing anything, right, So they were buying stuff,
Speaker 4: they were buying couches, they were buying stuff for their homes,
Speaker 4: They're buying you know, twelve skelekeletons.
Speaker 3: But it's continued, Yeah, which is kind of interesting. Well,
Speaker 3: and to that, I mean, you know, I guess what
Speaker 3: do you watch most? We know how important consumer spending is,
Speaker 3: certainly to the US economy. We've been focused on the
Speaker 3: job market, right, we just got a strong report. So
Speaker 3: when it comes to factors and things, you guys are
Speaker 3: think tank, right, you analyze, you have clients, you have
Speaker 3: to advise on what consumers are doing. Is it the
Speaker 3: jobs market that you watch most closely? What is if
Speaker 3: there's one factor that you watch, what is it?
Speaker 8: Yeah, So I think you're right, Carol, But what I
Speaker 8: would say, so, we're actually getting ready to launch the
Speaker 8: latest version of our consumer Sentiment intex.
Speaker 9: It's called the Consumer Stress.
Speaker 8: Index, And when we watch is actually the consumer version
Speaker 8: of the job market, which is personal job security. So sometimes,
Speaker 8: as we know, with jobs, it's not always a perfect
Speaker 8: tie out to the jobs that are available and the
Speaker 8: people that are looking, and just in general how safe
Speaker 8: people feel in their jobs.
Speaker 9: So we've seen a slight.
Speaker 8: Uptick in the last six months of people's personal job
Speaker 8: in security, so being a little bit more nervous. If
Speaker 8: I were to lose a job, it would be harder
Speaker 8: to find a new job. But it's also small, so
Speaker 8: I think that no red flags here yet. But something
Speaker 8: that's on the mind of consumers is that labor market.
Speaker 8: You know, it's a little bit hard to read, I
Speaker 8: think on an individual basis.
Speaker 3: All right, we're gonna leave it on that note. Listen, Hey,
Speaker 3: thank you so much, so appreciate it. Katie Thomas, lead
Speaker 3: at the Carney Consumer Institute, joining us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 4: Crew SORTD eighty dollars a barrel, its highest price. Going
Speaker 4: back to August, mounting tensions in the Middle East, raising
Speaker 4: speculation Carol that Israel may attack Iran's oil infrastructure.
Speaker 3: There's so many headlines I've got to be honest with
Speaker 3: you when it comes to energy to meat higher.
Speaker 4: Page of headlines that you put this in these notes.
Speaker 3: No, it's just kind of crazy. From Chevron selling some
Speaker 3: Canadian oil, sand and shale assets for about six and
Speaker 3: a half billion, you all said, BP abandoning a target
Speaker 3: to cut oil and gas put output by twenty thirty.
Speaker 3: That's from Reuters.
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia is preparing to make a multi billion dollar
Speaker 4: bed on a hydrogen that will launch a new company,
Speaker 4: and then equanor in the wind space, buying a two
Speaker 4: point five billion dollar steak in Orsted, the Danish wind giant.
Speaker 3: It all just kind of comes together, which is why
Speaker 3: we knew we wanted to talk to doctor ellen Wald.
Speaker 3: She's president at Transversal Consulting, which focuses on the intersection
Speaker 3: of energy and geopolitics. Yet nothing going on there A
Speaker 3: little sarcasm. She's also senior Fellow at the Atlanta Council,
Speaker 3: author of Saudi Inc. Which is all about a ramco
Speaker 3: in the company's role and huge historical significance in the region.
Speaker 3: She joins us from Jacksonville, Florida.
Speaker 4: Hey, before we get to the latest on energy, certainly
Speaker 4: related to hurricanes and storms, we have to ask everything. Okay,
Speaker 4: ahead of Milton, You're you're in Jacksonville, which you know
Speaker 4: you won't see the worst.
Speaker 10: I'm actually I'm actually in South Florida.
Speaker 9: Yeah, Bocage.
Speaker 1: Now, everything is probably going to be fine here, but
Speaker 1: there's definitely major concern for the West coast and also
Speaker 1: you know, through Orlando and and through there, So there's
Speaker 1: there's definitely some major concern with this hurricane for most
Speaker 1: of the state, just not exactly where I am.
Speaker 3: How do you think about before we get into some
Speaker 3: of the headlines and obviously the Middle East, but no
Speaker 3: climate change and the impact that could potentially have either
Speaker 3: on just disrupting the systems, causing systems to go down.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how does it factor in
Speaker 3: to how you think about the energy markets?
Speaker 1: So that's a that's an interesting thought. I think the
Speaker 1: most important things when you think about hurricanes and systems
Speaker 1: and energy, I think the most important things we've got
Speaker 1: going on now is that there's a lot more capital
Speaker 1: concentrated in areas that are hurricane prone now than there
Speaker 1: used to be.
Speaker 9: So when we talk.
Speaker 1: About level of destruction, yeah, there's a lot more destruction
Speaker 1: going on because there's just a lot more in Florida
Speaker 1: and in areas that are hurricane prone, and so it
Speaker 1: can be hard to kind of measure and say, well,
Speaker 1: it's this really.
Speaker 10: Way more destructive.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of we're looking at a lot
Speaker 1: of things in terms of comparing this hurricane to one
Speaker 1: happened in nineteen twenty one. So I think it's really
Speaker 1: hard to say, like, oh, yes, climate change has caused this.
Speaker 10: When you think about energy, it's definitely of concern.
Speaker 1: Florida gets all of its oil supplies, or almost all
Speaker 1: of them, via barges that go to Tampa. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of ports, it doesn't have a lot
Speaker 1: of pipelines, and so for the entire state, energy and
Speaker 1: access to gasoline can be concerning during a hurricane simply
Speaker 1: because you know, if a highway is flooded out, then
Speaker 1: tankers can't.
Speaker 10: Necessarily get to certain locations.
Speaker 1: So it's obviously something you know that we need to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on, even if you aren't in the
Speaker 1: direct path of a hurricane.
Speaker 4: What about when it comes to disruptions at rigs in
Speaker 4: the Gulf of Mexico, which we have seen during previous
Speaker 4: hurricane events during previous tropical storms. Why is the focus
Speaker 4: on rising oil prices now out of Middle East and
Speaker 4: not because of disruption in the US, So that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I think it can very much depend on exactly where
Speaker 1: the hurricane is going in This hurricane is taking a path.
Speaker 10: You know it's going eastward, and I know it's.
Speaker 1: Right now it's near the peninsula in Mexico. It may
Speaker 1: not be heading near a lot of the platforms and
Speaker 1: the rigs that are concerning, or it may not necessarily
Speaker 1: be going in that direction. Also, there are now a
Speaker 1: lot of movable rigs, so things can move. The biggest
Speaker 1: concern with hurricanes and energy is when it gets towards Houston,
Speaker 1: towards the ports, because there's just so much energy, not
Speaker 1: just oil, but also gasoline, imports, exports, natural gas energy
Speaker 1: that goes in that area that a disruption like a
Speaker 1: hurricane can actually impact the entire country when it comes
Speaker 1: to gasoline prices. My suspicion, and I'm not an expert mediuroologist,
Speaker 1: is that this hurricane isn't necessarily going in the path
Speaker 1: of the oil production in the Gulf, though I'm sure
Speaker 1: we will hear in the next day or two that
Speaker 1: some rigs are being evacuated.
Speaker 3: Well, and let's layer that on top because it's really
Speaker 3: been interesting to watch the energy marks. I think there
Speaker 3: was concerns about the weakness in China in particular, also,
Speaker 3: you know, just other areas of the world like crimping demand,
Speaker 3: and so there was keeping prices lower. Then of course,
Speaker 3: you you know, layer on top of that Ellen the
Speaker 3: Middle East tensions, and then we've seen oil certainly spike.
Speaker 3: What is I don't know, what is the longer term price.
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at, you know, crude oil right now
Speaker 3: seventy seven to twenty a barrel. What is kind of
Speaker 3: the likely price in the next I don't know, six
Speaker 3: to twelve months in your view? And why?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's very very hard to say.
Speaker 1: It's very hard to pin down a number, and it
Speaker 1: does depend on this confluence, like you've said, you've got
Speaker 1: you know, some days the market might be focusing on
Speaker 1: demand weakness from China.
Speaker 10: Other days it might be focusing on.
Speaker 1: The potential for supply disruptions in the Middle East, and
Speaker 1: those can really impact numbers. I do think that the
Speaker 1: oil market is going to be very, very focused in
Speaker 1: the coming months on OPEC, and whether OPEC decides to
Speaker 1: go through and to go along with its planned production increases,
Speaker 1: especially because that's something that is fairly predictable in terms
Speaker 1: of all of these other things. You know, there's no
Speaker 1: way to predict, you know, is Israel going to launch
Speaker 1: some kind of attack on Iran?
Speaker 10: Is that going to impact oil supplies? Is it not?
Speaker 10: Is Israel not going to do that?
Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of factors here that
Speaker 1: are an, whereas OPEK is much more knowable, and that
Speaker 1: may impact oil prices more strongly in the next you know,
Speaker 1: say four months.
Speaker 4: What in your view could be a potential target for Israel.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, when you look at when
Speaker 1: you look at this area, I do think that there's
Speaker 1: a benefit for Israel in people the United States, other
Speaker 1: countries Iran thinking or believing that they will or can
Speaker 1: attack Iranian oil infrastructure. I think it's highly unlikely. It's
Speaker 1: very unlikely that Israel would be able to say, cripple
Speaker 1: Iran's oil infrastructure or oil industry with say one attack
Speaker 1: or two attacks. They'd really have to launch a highly
Speaker 1: coordinated attack that is very risky and would probably not
Speaker 1: be successful because they need to fly through Saudi airspace.
Speaker 10: For example.
Speaker 1: Potential target could be the Abadan refinery, which supplies a
Speaker 1: lot of Iran's gasoline needs itself, and so that could
Speaker 1: definitely have a devastating effect on Iran. I do think
Speaker 1: that there will be a lot of pressure on Israel
Speaker 1: not to do this, but like I said, I don't
Speaker 1: think that it's likely Israel would do that. But I
Speaker 1: think Israel does feel that it's beneficial for other countries
Speaker 1: to think that it might, and it may derive some
Speaker 1: strategic benefits from that in the long run. So I
Speaker 1: think the oil market is going to continue to act
Speaker 1: as though Israel that there is a heightened risk that
Speaker 1: Israel would do this.
Speaker 3: Hey Ellen, just about twenty five seconds here one last story,
Speaker 3: equinor buying a two and a half billion dollars stake
Speaker 3: in the Danish wind giant oristed. We continue to see
Speaker 3: money being invested in renewables. Does that shift continue despite
Speaker 3: how much respend still talking about fossil fuels And again,
Speaker 3: just about twenty twenty five seconds.
Speaker 1: I definitely think we're going to see more investment inter renewables.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that is going to noticeably change
Speaker 1: the mix and the oil market. Oil still going to
Speaker 1: be one of the most important energy fuels in many
Speaker 1: years to come, though I do think that certain companies
Speaker 1: could be impacted by the investments that they make in
Speaker 1: certain types of renewable industries and certain types of renewable power.
Speaker 3: Well, great to go on all those headlines that are
Speaker 3: out there today, Ellen, thank you as owees. Doctor Ellen Wall,
Speaker 3: President of Transversal Consulting, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council.
Speaker 3: Joining us there in Florida.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 2: live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen
Speaker 2: on Apple car Play and and brout Auto with a
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Terry Williams meantime. She is the president and COO and
Speaker 3: an owner of One United Bank. It is the largest
Speaker 3: black owned bank in the country. It was founded back
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty eight during the American Civil Rights movement.
Speaker 3: Today is largely digital, though they also have some branches
Speaker 3: tim in California, Florida, and Massachusetts.
Speaker 4: We got Terry with us from Miami. We've been talking
Speaker 4: to our Florida guests throughout the show. Today, we're going
Speaker 4: to get to the interview what you're seeing, but of
Speaker 4: course we're thinking about you and everybody who's been affected
Speaker 4: by the recent storms and who could be affected in
Speaker 4: the near future by the storms. How are you guys
Speaker 4: doing down there?
Speaker 7: So far, so good.
Speaker 11: It's definitely cloudy, and I actually had plans to leave Miami.
Speaker 7: I'm in Miami now, but I'm going.
Speaker 11: To stay because of the hurricane and be here, you know,
Speaker 11: with the troops as I call them, So I think
Speaker 11: we'll be fine. But it definitely, you know, category four
Speaker 11: or five is definitely nothing to you know, not be
Speaker 11: concerned about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of. It seems like people who live down
Speaker 4: there are kind of used to this stuff. But I
Speaker 4: think at the same time, I mean the frequency and
Speaker 4: intensity we're seeing that. Well, okay, let's talk economy, because
Speaker 4: you've got a great view of the economy as president,
Speaker 4: COO and owner of one United Bank. We got that
Speaker 4: blowout jobs number last week. In your view, how is
Speaker 4: the economy doing?
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, the economy is doing great, and I
Speaker 11: you know, I had to even say that sometimes because
Speaker 11: people look at me sort of strange, like, what are
Speaker 11: you talking about?
Speaker 7: But really, you know, I remember.
Speaker 11: When interest rates and maybe you know when they were
Speaker 11: high as twenty percent even twelve percent interest rates, even
Speaker 11: though they are much higher than the three percent that
Speaker 11: they used to be, still a mortgage rate of six
Speaker 11: percent is relatively low. Unemployment is you know, strong, Jobs
Speaker 11: numbers are strong, Inflation is coming down. I mean, this
Speaker 11: is one of these great economies that you know, for
Speaker 11: some reason, and you know, understandable after what we've went through.
Speaker 7: People aren't completely feeling.
Speaker 11: It yet, but I'm very optimistic about the economy.
Speaker 3: Well. So in terms of the outcome come November, how
Speaker 3: would you guys really tap into the underserved the underrepresented?
Speaker 3: When it comes to the financial system, it's something that
Speaker 3: Tim and I and we talk about a lot at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: We obviously cover, you know, in a week where we
Speaker 3: have earnings in the big banks, they get covered, but
Speaker 3: there are many people who are left out of the
Speaker 3: financial system. And that's really where when United and others
Speaker 3: come into the picture. So, having said that, the outcome
Speaker 3: of the November election, how might that impact your business
Speaker 3: and your community?
Speaker 11: So there are a lot of ways that it can
Speaker 11: impact our community, But first and foremost is the economy.
Speaker 11: You know, beyond the politics. It's really where we see
Speaker 11: interest rates going, employment going, and our hope is that,
Speaker 11: regardless of who wins, that that strength and the economy
Speaker 11: will continue. But we also are seeing you know, what
Speaker 11: I'll call a power shift. I think we're going to
Speaker 11: talk about our stream that's tomorrow, but there's definitely a
Speaker 11: power shift. And what we mean by that is that
Speaker 11: there's a greater sense, particularly in the Black community, of
Speaker 11: our strength and our resilience and our ability to sort
Speaker 11: of weather the storms, you know, regardless of the storms.
Speaker 11: So when you look at you know, post pandemic, we've
Speaker 11: seen some of the largest number of small businesses started
Speaker 11: in this country, and a lot of them in minority communities.
Speaker 11: You know, we've seen record unemployment low rates for the
Speaker 11: African American community. What we really need to work on
Speaker 11: is home ownership and making home ownership more affordable. And
Speaker 11: my hope is, again regardless of the outcome of the election,
Speaker 11: that you know, that the federal government will continue to
Speaker 11: focus on home ownership.
Speaker 4: How do they do that in your view, because there's
Speaker 4: this challenge when it comes to we talked about this
Speaker 4: last week when it comes to zoning and actually Tim
Speaker 4: Wallas has talked about this too, the challenge of focusing
Speaker 4: on home ownership when the supply of homes is low
Speaker 4: and doing what trying to encourage home builders to build,
Speaker 4: but the national government can only do one thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: they can only do so much, Terry, what do you
Speaker 4: see as the solution here?
Speaker 11: Yeah, well, there's definitely a need for down payment assistance,
Speaker 11: and there are programs. There are local programs like here
Speaker 11: in Miami and California and in Boston, great programs for
Speaker 11: first time home buyers. So that's the first thing, because
Speaker 11: that's where it's mainly felt is the starter homes, the
Speaker 11: lack of starter homes, so down payment assistance is huge,
Speaker 11: and that's one area. But the second is definitely zoning.
Speaker 11: You know, in California they loosened zoning so that you
Speaker 11: can build more ADUs or accessory dwelling units, which gives
Speaker 11: more housing as well as gives individuals some income possibilities
Speaker 11: if they have space in their you know, in their
Speaker 11: yard for an ADU or even having family members you know,
Speaker 11: in some cases, you know, it's grandparents or students that
Speaker 11: are living in these ADUs. But there needs to be
Speaker 11: much more flexibility on housing and I hate to say this,
Speaker 11: but less need for parking oh takes.
Speaker 4: It's like, listen, it's like you listened to our conversation
Speaker 4: last week.
Speaker 9: It's so funny.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 3: It's exactly what we talked about with someone who was
Speaker 3: an expert in terms of zoning and urban planning. And
Speaker 3: but that was a big thing, that the amount of
Speaker 3: parking spots. I don't know how we get around it
Speaker 3: because we don't seem to embrace public transportation as much
Speaker 3: as we probably need to. We certainly have it here
Speaker 3: in New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we spoke to Sarah Bronan, who's an architect attorney.
Speaker 4: She's a Cornell University professor. She wrote a new book.
Speaker 4: It's called Key to the City. It's on our podcast feed.
Speaker 4: I know that because I sent it to my wife
Speaker 4: earlier today.
Speaker 3: I know one of our producers, Elizabeth swiped my copy.
Speaker 3: She was gone into urban pleasure.
Speaker 4: She was gone that day that we did the interview.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth was.
Speaker 3: But you're so right, Terry, in terms of that, is
Speaker 3: it getting any better for communities that just we talk
Speaker 3: about it so much, right when we finally have decided
Speaker 3: that wealth creation it's not about income, it's about wealth
Speaker 3: creation and generational wealth, and a home is often an
Speaker 3: entry point in a lot of ways to creating generational wealth.
Speaker 3: Is it getting any better for underserved communities?
Speaker 11: It is getting better slowly, and again I'll talk about
Speaker 11: here in Miami because this is where I am at
Speaker 11: the moment, But there has been so many condos built
Speaker 11: that it's starting to become a renter's market. And that
Speaker 11: also gives the opportunity for some people to focus on
Speaker 11: home ownership because you know, the cost of rent has
Speaker 11: been so high, so there is and you know, even
Speaker 11: when we were talking about parking and public transportation, there
Speaker 11: was actually one of these voter initiatives where the majority
Speaker 11: of voters said here in Miami that they wanted the
Speaker 11: government to invest in public transportation. So, you know, I
Speaker 11: definitely think that let me put it this way, I
Speaker 11: think the electorate, you know, the citizens are moving in
Speaker 11: the right direction. I think it's up to us as
Speaker 11: leaders and especially our elected officials, to really move with
Speaker 11: them and support what we see on the ground as
Speaker 11: being the need.
Speaker 4: Hey I wanted to you read reference to this, but
Speaker 4: you're taking part in a pretty cool event tomorrow night.
Speaker 4: It brings the other leaders in finance, politics, diversity, and
Speaker 4: it comes against the backdrop of a historic presidential election
Speaker 4: less than a month away. Kamala Harris could be the
Speaker 4: first woman of color, an Asian American to be president.
Speaker 4: First woman also, yeah, I mean you can tell, how
Speaker 4: are you viewing her candidacy in the context of the
Speaker 4: national conversation around race, around politics, around representation.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so as you know, owner of a bank, president
Speaker 11: of the bank, and being a black woman. If you
Speaker 11: can't see this, you know, if it's your listening, you know,
Speaker 11: I'm definitely.
Speaker 7: Used to people.
Speaker 11: Under estimating me and black women, and I think that
Speaker 11: what we see now is really a better sense of
Speaker 11: our strength. You know, we knew it, but now the
Speaker 11: world is starting to see it and recognize it, you know.
Speaker 11: And I'll use myself as an example. You know that
Speaker 11: there are very few owners of banks, and very few
Speaker 11: black women owners of banks. So when I walk into
Speaker 11: the room, there's sort of a sense of like, really,
Speaker 11: you know, is this kill the bank or you know,
Speaker 11: even could a bank be black owned?
Speaker 7: You know, and so there's a lot of questions.
Speaker 11: But when given the opportunity to share, you know that
Speaker 11: we're the first digital you know, black Digital Bank, that
Speaker 11: we actually have customers all over the country, and that
Speaker 11: we have a great understanding of the needs of load
Speaker 11: and mounted income communities and you don't have to be
Speaker 11: black to bank with us. You know, when people start
Speaker 11: to realize that, you know, because of where we came from,
Speaker 11: you know, from middle class roots, because we have an
Speaker 11: understanding of what it's like to not have a lot
Speaker 11: of money, we are more in tune with the needs
Speaker 11: of the majority of Americans and that using that knowledge
Speaker 11: to provide better services and better policies. You know, I
Speaker 11: think people are starting to recognize that this is a
Speaker 11: good thing that's happening in America.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely and you know, it'll be interesting to
Speaker 3: see what happens certainly come November. But you're right, like
Speaker 3: to have this event and just remind you people of
Speaker 3: the voices that are out there. And this event again
Speaker 3: happening tomorrow, correct, just quickly.
Speaker 11: Yes, tomorrow evening at seven o'clock Eastern time. And it's
Speaker 11: called the Powership, and it's about black women and politics
Speaker 11: and economics and really an advocacy and how you know
Speaker 11: we are coming into our own.
Speaker 7: Power is shifting.
Speaker 3: All right, Terry, Thank you so much. Terry Williams. She's
Speaker 3: the president and COO of One United Bank and this
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Business Week. Terry, thank you, brother Marc.
Speaker 1: A journal.
Speaker 12: How about you let me drive? No, no, no, who's
Speaker 12: going to day?
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 3: I'll do gravels.
Speaker 9: Let's wat I.
Speaker 7: Want to drive.
Speaker 9: It's a good question.
Speaker 2: This is the drive to the globe. Well Bern and
Speaker 2: on on Bluuebirg Radio.
Speaker 3: All right, everybody, we've got about eighteen minutes left in
Speaker 3: today's trading session, getting ready to wrap up the Monday trade.
Speaker 3: Charlie walking through all of those numbers. We've seen some
Speaker 3: broad based selling and we're hovering around our loads of
Speaker 3: the session, so one percent down across the board of
Speaker 3: those major equity averages. And a big reason why is certainly,
Speaker 3: you know, we continue to watch some of these tensions,
Speaker 3: but again to see yields. We talked to this, We
Speaker 3: talked about this with our Michael McKenzie and ivery JERSEYBS
Speaker 3: numbers came out the new narrative right when it comes
Speaker 3: to what we're seeing in rates, and you've got a
Speaker 3: four percent on the ten year treasury. We had four
Speaker 3: percent earlier on the two year. We'll get another inflation
Speaker 3: print this week, and we'll see whether or not that
Speaker 3: resets the conversation. But we see a fair amount of volatility,
Speaker 3: but right now it's yields higher, and so we're pulling
Speaker 3: back our expectations for what the Fed does perhaps this
Speaker 3: year in terms of market.
Speaker 4: I want to know what Jamie Batner has to say
Speaker 4: about it. Is chief investment officer over at Creative Planning.
Speaker 3: He said, Jamie Diamond what he wanted.
Speaker 4: He's tomorrow.
Speaker 3: We want to know what he has to say about
Speaker 3: it too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll find out tomorrow. The jummies we got Jamie
Speaker 4: Batman with us right now, Creative Planning and it's affiliates.
Speaker 4: They've got about three hundred and twenty five billion dollars
Speaker 4: in assets under management. Jamie joins us from Overland to Park, Kansas.
Speaker 4: Is that the story for you today, Jamie? Is it
Speaker 4: all about the yield on the tenure?
Speaker 12: Well, girl, tam, thanks for having me, Thanks for thanking
Speaker 12: you for Creative Planning. Okay, what's the story today? This
Speaker 12: kind of market pressure we're seeing, Well, it's a byproduct
Speaker 12: of stronger than anticipate economic data. Yes, there's always the
Speaker 12: global concerns, problems in the Middle East, problems with Russian
Speaker 12: and its neighbors, but unfortunate, it's more often the norm
Speaker 12: and the exception that problems in the least and problems
Speaker 12: with Russian and its neighbors. So to the economic data
Speaker 12: on that side of what's driving things, it's a byproduct
Speaker 12: of surprising strength in the underlying markets. You know, the
Speaker 12: jobs report that came out, you know, stronger than anticipated.
Speaker 12: The consumer, you know, the American consumer, just stronger than anticipated.
Speaker 12: The impact on that is, okay, there might not be
Speaker 12: as many rate reductions as initially anticipated, but that guessing
Speaker 12: with rate reductions is as useless as a lot of
Speaker 12: short term prognostications. I mean, beginning of this year, Carol Tam,
Speaker 12: you know, Wall Street strategist, we're anticipating seven to eight
Speaker 12: answer T rates cuts. We've only gotten two. And so
Speaker 12: that's why trying to prognosticate in the short run is
Speaker 12: not what creative plane does. But again, this is a
Speaker 12: reaction to actually strong data that hopefully good news will
Speaker 12: revert to good news over the long.
Speaker 3: Run, right, as long as that good news doesn't include
Speaker 3: higher inflation.
Speaker 12: Right, Yeah, absolutely, obviously we have to measure that. But
Speaker 12: but you know, these momentary blips. It's it's all about
Speaker 12: the longer trend line, not kind of the week over week,
Speaker 12: you know, month of a month type data, and that
Speaker 12: trend line continues to be very, very positive. And it's
Speaker 12: just overall inflation, you know some things. Just yes, our
Speaker 12: price is still high, absolutely, in certain segments suffering, absolutely,
Speaker 12: But overall that trend line over the long run, which
Speaker 12: is what you can really help drive decision making off
Speaker 12: of instead the short run, is still trending positive. And
Speaker 12: so yes, as long as inflation doesn't get out of
Speaker 12: control again, looks like we're in a good spot.
Speaker 4: Every question, every interview, Carol, I have to ask about
Speaker 4: the election because now, go for we are less than
Speaker 4: a month out.
Speaker 3: Where's my app that tells me how many days?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's less than a month than I'm just keep
Speaker 4: in mind, Jamie, are you are you watching our clients
Speaker 4: asking you about election outcome?
Speaker 11: Here?
Speaker 4: Are they concerned about it? How are you looking at it?
Speaker 12: Well, of course they're asking about it because it creates
Speaker 12: a lot of emotional angst, emotional activity. But as we know,
Speaker 12: you know in markets, you know, fear and greed, you know,
Speaker 12: just like all poor decision making life is what drives
Speaker 12: in when we need to try and avoid that. Okay,
Speaker 12: let's step back on what drives all of our investment
Speaker 12: decision making here creative planning. It's the historical empirical data
Speaker 12: in academic research. So in general, you know, the markets
Speaker 12: are up about seventy five percent of time stock markets right,
Speaker 12: three out of four years. It's not always linear like
Speaker 12: that seventy five percent of time markets go up. Actually,
Speaker 12: the data supports that in presidential election years the stock
Speaker 12: market's up about eighty four percent of time. So if
Speaker 12: you just take out all the rhetoric, you'd say, okay,
Speaker 12: actually typically speaking markets like the election years, but then
Speaker 12: also everything that's going on. You know, obviously it's emotional,
Speaker 12: but as I talked about, like with the Middle East,
Speaker 12: with Russia, these are unfortunate common elements of the world
Speaker 12: in which we live. I mean, you know, Trump's assassination attempt.
Speaker 12: Fifteen percent of Americans, fifteen percent of American presidents have
Speaker 12: been shot. That's not a rounding, are you know? I mean,
Speaker 12: it's you know, any baby boomer or almost all baby boomers,
Speaker 12: can remember the last time a sitting president refused his
Speaker 12: party's renomination with with Lyndon Johnson sixty eight and the
Speaker 12: market was up fifteen percent at the rest of the
Speaker 12: year from there. But the key really difference is is that, yes,
Speaker 12: keep calm and carry on well trodden subject but even
Speaker 12: the underlying data that sometimes people try and trade off
Speaker 12: of is very, very misleading. The facts don't agree with
Speaker 12: the rhetoric. And what I mean by that is like
Speaker 12: you can look up any kind of you know, website
Speaker 12: right now and to say, Okay, this sector will be
Speaker 12: good for a renewed Trump administration, or this sector will
Speaker 12: be good for Harris administration. The data just doesn't support that.
Speaker 12: And what do I mean by that just looking over
Speaker 12: the last couple of administrations in four year periods. Take
Speaker 12: take clean energy as an example. You broke it out
Speaker 12: during the eight years of Obama and the four years
Speaker 12: so far of Biden, and then the four years of
Speaker 12: Trump in between. You know, clean energy did dramatically better
Speaker 12: under the Trump administration they did under either Obama or Biden.
Speaker 12: And you'd assume that to be kind of democratic friendly sector,
Speaker 12: but not to say it's not a Republican Democrat thing,
Speaker 12: because the exact opposite could be said of big banks
Speaker 12: or traditional energy. You say, Okay, these are more kind
Speaker 12: of things that would do well under under Republican administration. No,
Speaker 12: the data actually says the exact opposite. They did better
Speaker 12: under democratic administration versus Republican And that's a key that
Speaker 12: just the rhetoric doesn't sync up with the data. You
Speaker 12: have to keep calm and carry on and do not
Speaker 12: make those emotional decisions based upon the heightened interest that
Speaker 12: politics brings to the table.
Speaker 3: A lot of politics though, looking at some of the
Speaker 3: big tech and I just want to bring in some
Speaker 3: headlines that are crossing. Earlier today, we did do the
Speaker 3: story out about how Alphabet must lift restrictions that prevent
Speaker 3: developers from setting up rival marketplaces that compete with its
Speaker 3: Google Play Store. That was a ruling from a judge,
Speaker 3: so upending the search giants dominance in the lucrative Android
Speaker 3: app market. This was a federal judge in San Francisco
Speaker 3: today handing a big victory to Epic Games in its
Speaker 3: long running anti trust challenge to Alphabet's app store. Well, meantime,
Speaker 3: just a moment ago, Google out and it plans to
Speaker 3: appeal this Epic Games verdict and to ask the courts
Speaker 3: to pause implementing remedies so to appeal the court injunction
Speaker 3: and epen Gate in the Epic Games anti trust case.
Speaker 3: I should point out this stuck's been under pressure for
Speaker 3: most of the day, but right now it's near its lows,
Speaker 3: down about two percent here. So in terms of rhetoric,
Speaker 3: big tech increasingly on regulators radar, Jamie just got about
Speaker 3: thirty seconds. Is there a big tech thought for you here?
Speaker 12: Well, yeah, big tech is just the hot dot of
Speaker 12: the moment, just like you know big oil was twenty
Speaker 12: years ago, or big big steel twenty years before that,
Speaker 12: or big railroads you know, one hundred years ago. So
Speaker 12: there's always going to be whatever kind of the focus
Speaker 12: of like the current engine of economic growth, there's going
Speaker 12: to be that additional regulatory scrutiny. So really this is
Speaker 12: just part and parcel for consistency in what's kind of
Speaker 12: a healthy economic environment where some things are zigging while
Speaker 12: others are zagging. There's regulatory focus in other some sectors
Speaker 12: versus others. Over long run, we see that as a
Speaker 12: healthy thing, and that innovation usually outpaces regulation and that's
Speaker 12: part of markets, always has been, always will be.
Speaker 4: Jamie Batmer, Chief Investment officer over at Creative Planning, joining
Speaker 4: us from overland at Park, Kansas.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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