WEBVTT - Activist Starboard Value Takes $1 Billion Stake in Pfizer 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.920 This is Bloomberg Business. Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.640 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.880 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.840 podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:28.880 And now we want to get to the micro and 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.120 in particular one name in the equity world that we 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:32.199 are focusing on big time. 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.960 Yeah, Pfizer shares rallying right now, higher by two point 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.519 five percent on a day when the rest of the 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.040 market is lower. It's up the most in more than 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.440 five months. The stock we should know it though just 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.640 a little changed this year. According to a person familiar 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.839 with the matter. Activist investors Starboard Value has taken a 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.680 stake of about one billion dollars in Pfizer and it's 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.400 seeking to spur a turnaround of the pharma giant. This 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.840 is according to a person Carol familiar with the matter. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:57.840 All right, so let's get to it. Let's get more, 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.040 because it does seem like COVID has certainly affected this 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.120 company and they're trying to figure out what's next for them. 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.320 Bloomberg News Health reporter Madison Muller back in our studio, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.319 Good to have you here. Pfizer, like one of the 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.280 darlings right during covid is, Did they really think that 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.959 the COVID vaccine was going to be there keep them 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.560 going and going for years to come, Like, is that 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:20.399 what this is about? 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:20.880 I think. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.240 I do think that a lot of people thought during 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.399 the pandemic that there was going to be a longer 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.399 tail to COVID, and Pfeiser has certainly said that, like that, 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.240 the demand has declined a lot more rapidly for the 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.959 vaccine and their treatment than they anticipated. But that being said, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.640 I mean in the farmer world, CEOs are always looking 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.080 to what's next, Like that is not something that's new, 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.800 that's the minute you have a blockbuster. We talked about 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:48.600 Lily all the time on the show, Like they are 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.160 already thinking about and looking at what's next. They are 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.560 so not settled on obesity. They want to be prepared 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.800 for the future. So that's something that all pharma CEOs 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.560 should be and are talking about frequently. So to say 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.320 that they didn't know that this was going to happen 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.320 is kind of you know, naive. 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.560 But we should go back and understand how big of 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.480 a boost tran Advisor's top and bottom lines the COVID 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.560 vaccine was. In your piece, you said that the vaccine 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.440 had treatment more than doubled revenue to one hundred billion 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.919 dollars in twenty twenty two from forty two billion back 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:21.720 in twenty twenty. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:22.720 That's a boost. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.120 That's a huge boosts, right, huge boosts. And you know, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.160 it's not like they haven't been trying to prepare for 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.440 what's next. The CEO, Albert Borla, has done a number 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.120 of deals in recent years. They're trying to replenish their pipeline. 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.360 But I think, I mean, this is the problem, is 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.680 that investors are not happy with the deals that they've 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.480 done so far. It has not replenished those revenues quickly enough. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.560 And they did this enormous siege in deal last year 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.200 forty three billion dollars, and that you know, that has 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:58.000 given them a stable of good cancer drugs, potential blockbusters. However, 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.680 again it's not happening quickly enough. They are not reaping 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.680 the rewards of that quickly enough and as fast as 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:05.640 investors had hoped. 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:06.799 What do you think, you know, I had a brother 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.760 who worked in the pharmaceutical industry for a long time, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.840 and we always talked about this. He's like, listen, R 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.800 and D. We spend a lot. You know, this is 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.720 why they charge a lot, because they put a lot 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.360 of drugs out and maybe one will be a blockbuster, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.040 but a lot of times they're not. You understand this world. 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.760 So again, is it just this is the business and 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.240 they're in a lull or is there something a little 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.760 bit more complicated going on at Peiser? 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:31.560 Yeah, I mean I think that that's one of the 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.000 things that we're thinking Starboards sort of like getting involved 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.400 to figure out are these bad deals? Is it just 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.360 bad luck? I mean, like you said, bad luck in 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.560 pharma is is a huge part of it. We've talked 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.400 about that again with Lily like they kind of ignored 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.520 obesity for a number of years, thinking it wasn't going 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.880 to be a big thing, and then it came back 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.520 into style so to speak, within pharma, and that just 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.160 is kind of what happens. There's like these ebbs and 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.120 flows of people not being interested in neuro and then 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.880 they are interested in neuro again, and then there's because 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.440 there's like one breakthrough and one company that does really 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.400 well and has a really successful drug and then everyone 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:10.680 else sort of rushes into it. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.640 So it's I mean, I guess. 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.080 It remains to be seen what's gonna happen with Pfizer, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.440 And we're still trying to get more details about you 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.800 know what this what Starboard is looking at. 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.360 But they've got a form Pfizer CEO helping them, right, yes, Yeah, 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.280 it's kind of interesting to me Formerfesser CEO, and I've 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.159 talked about knowing the fide right, yeah, what do you 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:32.840 what what do you make of that? And what do 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.120 you how are you guys thinking about that? 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.120 I mean, these people know the business obviously, and to 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.120 have I mean, it's interesting. We were looking at some 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:44.840 of the other healthcare you know, the things that that 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.040 Starboard has gotten involved in healthcare, so we have they 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.080 got involved with Bristol Myers, they got involved with Magell 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.680 and Humana, and we were kind of like looking at 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.200 their track record a little bit, and you know, it 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.560 could help having the former CEO CFO of the company 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.680 sort of on board, but we just don't know what 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:06.760 capacity they would be serving in or involved in going forward. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.600 I don't remember the last time you were on our program, 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.080 not talking about g LP one. 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:11.360 We're not. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.320 It's like we had an altered universe. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.440 Alter universe, because that's part of the Pfizer it is. Yeah, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.400 it's a big part of the Pfiser story. When we 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.440 talk about g LP ones, we talk about uh products 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.440 from companies like Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly. What's the 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.440 status of what Pfizer has been trying to develop when 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.000 it comes to GLP once. 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.240 So, Pfizer has been trying to develop a pill, and 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.800 like we've talked about that is likely to be the 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.279 next big thing in obesity, but they their efforts have 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.760 not gone so well so far. They had one pill 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.800 that they just had to discontinue entirely, another one twice 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.520 daily pill. The rates of side effects were really high 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.240 in trials, so they discontinued those trials and now they're 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.520 going forward with a once daily formulation. But you know, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.719 the analysts that I've spoken to are like, we don't 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.840 know if this is going to be a competitive product. 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.240 I mean, they still need to see more data, but 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.880 so far what they've seen is like there are so 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.320 many other companies like we know that are developing pills 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.279 for obesity now, and how does pfizers stack up to those. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.479 I don't really know, but you know, Albert Borlat at 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.000 one point was really talking up what the company was 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.240 doing in obesity and that was maybe one of the 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.359 next prospects for it, and so far that hasn't gone 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:29.400 according to plan. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:34.279 So I don't know. So do we know starboards endgame 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:34.960 here or we don't. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.880 We're That's what we're still trying to figure out. If 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.039 anyone knows, you're free to email me. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.200 Because what's a turnaround? Look, I mean, do they have 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.320 stuff to sell or you know what I mean? Yeah? 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.520 Or is it just I mean they've sold off stuff. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:47.120 Yeah. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.000 And it's interesting because I mean, they have this huge 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.440 cancer business now and then they have all these other products, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.840 like they have vaccine, migraine drugs, so it is that 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.640 is One of the things also that we've heard is 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.440 that they're like em and a strategy hasn't been super focused. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.320 It's like just kind of. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.520 All over the place. And they're their big focus now 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.600 is on cancer. But leading up to that siege and 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.320 purchase was just like a couple of other deals that 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.200 sort of unclear. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.280 Put the COVID shot just at the end of the interview, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.480 back into perspective for U, should investors think about this 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.160 as like a footnote or any other sort. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:22.360 Of that you're going to ask her? Should I get 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:23.080 a COVID shot? 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:28.720 No, with my questions about that debate, I mean. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.400 It is the season flu shots. Everyone's getting them down. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.440 But investors think about that very briefly. 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.520 I mean that's a good question. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:41.000 I think, like, I guess, it's unclear, like every every season, 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.520 the demand sort of. I mean, we thought maybe there 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.880 would be more demand as we moved back to like 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.200 seasonal in the fall. People don't have that maybe animosity 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.280 towards like the COVID shots after having to get so 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.600 many in a row. But I just the demand is 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.800 not there. People are very wary and I don't know, I. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.320 Think of getting all kinds of shots or so. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.080 If you get COVID, then I'm like, I'm gonna get COVID. 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.920 Yeah, three weeks for the shot to kick. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.120 I know, I know, Well, then you have immunity if 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.760 you're going to expose Medisin Muller. Thank you so much. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:14.320 This is Bloomberg. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.880 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.160 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.360 on Apple car play and then Brout Auto with a 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.520 Bloomberg business act or want us live on YouTube. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.079 It's that time, Carol, for earnings, for earnings. It's also 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.760 that time for the season booky decorations. I don't know 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.360 if you if you saw this over the weekend where 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.600 you live, Carol, but kind of everybody was out coming 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.080 up the cobwebs, yes, accidentally dropping things off the roof. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.160 If they were trying to like spread things out. That 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:45.679 happened to mind. 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.040 I'm always opening up like windows and I'm like tucking 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.720 in the cobweb and like quick slamming the window. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:51.080 To like hold it. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.040 Yeah, it's a little crazy, Okay, it's messy. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.839 Spiders, webs, witches, pumpkins. 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.559 What about the skeletons ginormous, I believe you have to 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.520 say Halloween skeletons. They're on front lawns. In the case 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.240 of all of us who are in urban neighborhoods. I 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.640 mean they are on so many in front of so 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.160 many homes in my neighborhood, through on the front stoops 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.200 or like right next to them. Wall Street journals out 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:12.960 with a great story in fact and how these are 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.720 jangling the nerves of neighbors, causing homeowners associations to not 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.200 leave them up past Halloween. Basically apparently some leave them up, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.800 put a red cap on, carry them through Christmas top hat. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.640 For like I said before years, where. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.959 Are you going to store them? The giant skeletons, where 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:30.280 are you going. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:30.640 To keep them? 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.480 And they're giant, they're massive all right. In all, some 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.840 eleven point six billion will be spent on Halloween, according 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.520 to the National Retail Federation. We wanted to take a 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.120 dive into what's going on in retail. 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.720 Yeah, back with us for thoughts on the Halloween shopping season, 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.319 also the upcoming retail season. Back with this is Katie Thomas. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.199 She's lead at the Carney Consumer Institute. It's an internal 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.439 think take of global management consulting from Carney. They analyze 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.720 consumer behavior, they do decision making, tell businesses address consumer needs. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.960 She joins us once again from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I'll be 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.840 before we talk about what's happening in the next few months, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.520 Let's talk about the impact of these storms. Milton in Florida. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.960 People are preparing for this to hit in the coming days. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.800 I'm wondering and especially people still over the last week 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.760 and now cleaning up from Helene just in recent days. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.400 What effect is that going to have on the consumer 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:18.280 outlook this season? 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.640 Yeah, I mean, I think you definitely see consumers responding. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.040 What tends to happen sometimes, tim with these big news 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.440 stories is you see these little dips in spend as 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.880 people are sort of drawn to their TV and they're 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.560 just not thinking about, you know, going out doing some 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:36.360 of that shopping. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:37.520 It tends to be. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.599 More around the bigger purchases where the uncertainty is not 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.480 driving spend. But one thing that's hard to say is 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.480 really how much you'll see it across the country versus 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.679 just small regional impacts, because in general, we've found that 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:54.320 Halloween decorating has provided actually some certainty in uncertain times, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.520 and a lot of consumers have embraced exactly what you're describing, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.080 the decor, the candy, some of the trade around the holiday. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.040 But you know, you certainly see some of these natural 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.839 disasters really weighing on consumers, especially those impacted. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.120 In general, Like prior to the storm, how are consumers feeling, 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:13.280 you know, right now in. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.280 The US, you're seeing that continued sort of mismatch between 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.560 how consumers say they're feeling and what the numbers actually say. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.400 So consumers still continue to voice to us that they're 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.720 fairly stressed, but that stress is also stayed stable. We 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.120 haven't seen it go up and up in stress. We've 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.840 seen a little bit of an uptick and concerns around 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.000 the cost of living, but for the most part, they're 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.840 embracing where we are. And I think, in particular, once 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.079 we get through the election, we expect even more stability 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.760 for the US consumer because that uncertainty that can restrict 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.320 a little bit of spending will then. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.240 Go away regardless of who wins the election. 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.520 Yeah, honestly regardless, because it's just living in that waiting game. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.000 I mean, that's what we saw all through. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.720 COVID, right we were really dealing with the anxiety of 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.360 consumers of like not knowing what's going to happen next. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.199 So I actually anticipate a solid holiday season because people 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.720 do like to spend the holidays and will be through 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.679 some of that frustration and uncertainty that is distracting all 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:11.480 of us right now. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:12.480 And that's another thing. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.800 Halloween is a welcome distraction from living. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.360 As someone who lives in a swing state. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.120 I can't tell you how many texts I get in 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.480 any given day, so I'll take all the skeletons. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:23.400 I can get. 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:25.800 Yeah, it's interesting. 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:26.719 Hey, do things like. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.960 Amazon Prime Day kicking off tomorrow two days like we were. 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.559 Kind of Prime days. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.160 We were laughing in the newsroom a little bit like, wait, 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.000 do they do this twice a year now. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.199 Over the summers multiple days as well? Yeah, I don't 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:41.240 know if it's Prime Day anymore? 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:42.440 Does this really move the needle? 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.920 Well, this is really you know, what we're seeing is 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.480 a kickoff to the holiday season. So this is another 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.280 carryover both with Halloween and with the winter holiday seasons 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.480 that we've seen from the pandemic, which is longer season. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.640 So Halloween used to be a little bit more concentrated 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.520 in the mind of October. Now you're seeing Halloween decor 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.760 or go out in stores in August. People are decorating 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.520 in September of really leaning into it. It's similarly like 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.880 this is a bit of a kickoff to the holiday season. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.760 Now some people of their organized start to pick up 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.319 stuff now during these deal days, but we still hear 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.040 from a lot of consumers that they're really not ready 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.120 until it's a lot closer to the actual holidays. 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.040 Can I just tell you this Wall Street Journal story 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.040 which gets into these giant skeletons on the giant skeleton. 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:27.040 I am. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.400 I'm obsessed ever since Lisa Matteo mentioned it on surveillance 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.680 this morning, I can't let go home. Depots twelve foot 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.240 Skelley has sold that every year since it clanked onto 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.320 the Halloween Day coursene in twenty twenty. Retailer sells the 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.120 two hundred and ninety nine dollars Skelly earlier and earlier, 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.640 with limited online sales this year starting in April. It 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.080 limits how many shoppers can buy, allowing only one at 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.600 a time to deter reselling. Again, this is in the 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.880 Wall Street Journal. I mean, they just like, all of 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.440 a sudden, we're nowhere, and now they're everywhere. And I 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.840 know in my neighborhood, like I said, we all have 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.160 like twelve feet maybe in front a little bit like 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.960 not much frontage, and they're there. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.760 I kind of thought this was like a pandemic thing. Yeah, 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.000 And then it turns out the pandemic followed twenty twenty 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.400 and then and that was sort of the consumer spending, right, 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.679 Nobody was doing anything, right, So they were buying stuff, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.720 they were buying couches, they were buying stuff for their homes, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.080 They're buying you know, twelve skelekeletons. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.840 But it's continued, Yeah, which is kind of interesting. Well, 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.480 and to that, I mean, you know, I guess what 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.160 do you watch most? We know how important consumer spending is, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.720 certainly to the US economy. We've been focused on the 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.600 job market, right, we just got a strong report. So 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.560 when it comes to factors and things, you guys are 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.400 think tank, right, you analyze, you have clients, you have 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.200 to advise on what consumers are doing. Is it the 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.640 jobs market that you watch most closely? What is if 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.960 there's one factor that you watch, what is it? 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.200 Yeah, So I think you're right, Carol, But what I 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.360 would say, so, we're actually getting ready to launch the 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.880 latest version of our consumer Sentiment intex. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:58.680 It's called the Consumer Stress. 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.040 Index, And when we watch is actually the consumer version 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.400 of the job market, which is personal job security. So sometimes, 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.200 as we know, with jobs, it's not always a perfect 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.400 tie out to the jobs that are available and the 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.520 people that are looking, and just in general how safe 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:15.680 people feel in their jobs. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:17.000 So we've seen a slight. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.120 Uptick in the last six months of people's personal job 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.760 in security, so being a little bit more nervous. If 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.920 I were to lose a job, it would be harder 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.760 to find a new job. But it's also small, so 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.280 I think that no red flags here yet. But something 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.440 that's on the mind of consumers is that labor market. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.160 You know, it's a little bit hard to read, I 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:37.680 think on an individual basis. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:39.600 All right, we're gonna leave it on that note. Listen, Hey, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.320 thank you so much, so appreciate it. Katie Thomas, lead 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:48.200 at the Carney Consumer Institute, joining us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.200 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.440 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.360 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.480 also listen live on Amazon on Alexa from our flagship 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.960 New York station, jo Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty Ran. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.080 Crew SORTD eighty dollars a barrel, its highest price. Going 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.240 back to August, mounting tensions in the Middle East, raising 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.040 speculation Carol that Israel may attack Iran's oil infrastructure. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.880 There's so many headlines I've got to be honest with 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.120 you when it comes to energy to meat higher. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.040 Page of headlines that you put this in these notes. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.800 No, it's just kind of crazy. From Chevron selling some 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.200 Canadian oil, sand and shale assets for about six and 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.720 a half billion, you all said, BP abandoning a target 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.080 to cut oil and gas put output by twenty thirty. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:36.880 That's from Reuters. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.920 Saudi Arabia is preparing to make a multi billion dollar 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.920 bed on a hydrogen that will launch a new company, 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.240 and then equanor in the wind space, buying a two 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.600 point five billion dollar steak in Orsted, the Danish wind giant. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.360 It all just kind of comes together, which is why 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.120 we knew we wanted to talk to doctor ellen Wald. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.400 She's president at Transversal Consulting, which focuses on the intersection 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.840 of energy and geopolitics. Yet nothing going on there A 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.840 little sarcasm. She's also senior Fellow at the Atlanta Council, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.360 author of Saudi Inc. Which is all about a ramco 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.520 in the company's role and huge historical significance in the region. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.479 She joins us from Jacksonville, Florida. 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:09.919 Hey, before we get to the latest on energy, certainly 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.760 related to hurricanes and storms, we have to ask everything. Okay, 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.919 ahead of Milton, You're you're in Jacksonville, which you know 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:18.000 you won't see the worst. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.120 I'm actually I'm actually in South Florida. 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:20.800 Yeah, Bocage. 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.280 Now, everything is probably going to be fine here, but 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.080 there's definitely major concern for the West coast and also 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:33.160 you know, through Orlando and and through there, So there's 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.880 there's definitely some major concern with this hurricane for most 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.120 of the state, just not exactly where I am. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.159 How do you think about before we get into some 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.359 of the headlines and obviously the Middle East, but no 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.080 climate change and the impact that could potentially have either 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.520 on just disrupting the systems, causing systems to go down. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.840 I mean, I don't know how does it factor in 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.080 to how you think about the energy markets? 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.399 So that's a that's an interesting thought. I think the 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.680 most important things when you think about hurricanes and systems 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.199 and energy, I think the most important things we've got 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.120 going on now is that there's a lot more capital 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.200 concentrated in areas that are hurricane prone now than there 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:14.679 used to be. 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:15.720 So when we talk. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.600 About level of destruction, yeah, there's a lot more destruction 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.120 going on because there's just a lot more in Florida 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.439 and in areas that are hurricane prone, and so it 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.840 can be hard to kind of measure and say, well, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:27.880 it's this really. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:28.639 Way more destructive. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.040