WEBVTT - Edward Jones: “The First Celebrity Stalker” 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:05.000 Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda land Audio in 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:13.240 partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.920 second season of Criminalia. This season, we're exploring the lives 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.320 and motivations of some of the most notorious stalkers throughout history. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.759 I'm Maria Trumarqui and I'm Holly Fry. And while our 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.840 first season was all about women poisoner, season two all 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.000 about stalkers. And today we're going to talk about a 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:37.080 teenage stalker who stole the young Queen Victoria's underwear. And 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.040 as that intro suggests, especially because we're laughing about it, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.880 this particular stalker story has the distinction of being definitely 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:50.240 more odd than it does scary. Absolutely So first let's 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.120 set our scene. So this is nineteen century England during 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.440 the Victorian Era, which is generally considered to be about 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.240 eighteen thirty seven to nineteen o one, which is the 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.520 life of Queen Victoria. Um but give or take a 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.959 few years uneat end. It was a period of time 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.360 when there was rapid development and change happening. Victoria came 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.479 to the throne in eighteen thirty seven at the age 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.080 of eighteen as Queen of the United Kingdom of Great 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.080 Britain and Ireland. All accounts say that she was stout 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.840 and considered dowdy, and although she wasn't actually even five 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.880 ft tall, she succeeded in projecting herself to be much larger. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.760 Her reign lasted sixty three years and seven months. She 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.720 was the record holder until current Queen Elizabeth seconds and 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.000 Victoria's reign began at a time of the world's first 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.399 Industrial Revolution. This was a time of great change for 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:47.400 obviously the industrial but also the political, scientific, and military 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.120 sectors within the United Kingdom. This is also a time 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.480 when the British Empire became the first global industrial power 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.480 and produced much of the world's coal, iron, steel, and textiles. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.560 During this time, the UK changed from an agricultural country 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.520 to an industrialized one, and while that was good for 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.000 the middle class, a lot of people continued to suffer 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.720 from deep poverty. This is also a time that gets 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:17.280 a lot of valid discussion about colonization and the expanding 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:21.520 of empire by taking over other people's lands. It's a 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.400 strange time where development is going on and a lot 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.559 of bad things are happening in the name of that development. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:33.200 There were harsh factory conditions. There was unsafe housing, there 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.000 was really bad sanitation, and along with all of this, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.360 of course, where's excessive drinking. Women were also in the workplace, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.600 which some people saw as a moral problem. This was 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.920 a problem. There was also a decline in religious fervor 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.639 at this time, right. So, in eighteen forty, two to 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.120 three years after her reign began, Victoria married Prince Albert, 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:59.480 who happened to be her first cousin. Uh, I'm gonna 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.880 leave it at that. Victoria, who was deeply in love, 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.720 was the one who proposed to Albert, and during their 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.040 seventeen years of marriage they had nine children. Um In fact, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.959 also at this time in Great Britain as well as 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.520 elsewhere in Europe and in the United States, the idea 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.160 that marriage should be based in romantic love rather than 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.840 for money or another strategic reason that you can come 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:28.360 up with romantic love was gaining popularity. Victoria also helped 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.440 cement that idea, right. She was in many ways a 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.800 trend setter, right. The idea of the white wedding dress 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.480 kind of goes back to her. We should also point 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:41.680 out that she, in terms of social and Royal Moray's 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.800 at the time, she had to be the one to propose. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.320 Albert could not propose to her because she was a 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.360 higher station than him, which would have been just not 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:57.080 okay at all. So it was the time of things 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.800 that were more exciting than marrying for money in Royal 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.640 Bay Bees though. It was also the time of Charles 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.280 Dickens and Charles Darwin and Florence Nightingale and the steam 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.680 powered locomotive and the first telegraph and telephone. This was 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.920 a really exciting time to be alive. We talked about 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.360 our technological age and things moving so quickly that felt 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.120 like this to a lot of people where they were 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.200 just like, do you mean I can talk to somebody 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.680 who was far away? Absolutely? Absolutely, I mean like I think, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.440 what was it? The penny black? Is that what it 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.760 was called? The very first black penny postage stamp also 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.200 happened during Victoria's reign, like you could, you could connect 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.120 with people in ways that you could never have connected before. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.920 And it's in this time period that Edward Jones, or 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:47.279 as the newspapers nicknamed him, the Boy Jones, was born 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.400 in London some time around eighteen four. His father was 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.520 a tailor and his family was very poor but by 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.400 the time that Edward Jones was fourteen years old, he 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:03.600 had become the first celebrity stalker. So this all started 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.240 in eighteen thirty eight when Jones was overheard bragging to 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.800 his employer about walking through Buckingham Palace. But no one 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.040 believed that he had done this or that he would 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.080 do this. The very thought of a commoner just strolling 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.160 through the palace was absolutely absurd. It would be like 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.359 me going Maria yesterday I was on the moon like. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.120 It was that level of just ridiculous to the hearer, Right, 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.160 I'm going to go back this weekend, like, oh my 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:38.560 gonna all the time about you. But here's the thing, 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.760 as absurd as it sounded, between eighteen thirty eight and 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:46.640 eighteen forty one, Jones did break into Buckingham Palace way 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.240 more than once. He was good at it more than once. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.400 It was like he just walked in the front door. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.120 At the end of it, he's like, hey, I'm here. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.040 Oh that kid's back right right, we know him. He's 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.360 been here a hundred and two times. So or to 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.599 start at the beginning, the story of the boy Jones 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:10.120 has been over the years basically pieced together using newspaper 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.719 reports from the first years of Victoria's reign and the 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.280 first time that he entered Buckingham Palace in he did 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.080 it with a disguise. He disguised himself as a chimney sweeper. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.159 In History tells us that Jones was not a particularly 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.520 good looking gent. He's described as having a wide mouth 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:33.839 and a low brow and not really um super good 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.880 about bathing regularly. Not some good higien there, right. So 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.159 word is that he thought he wouldn't stand out dressed 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.200 as a chimney sweep, and that apparently worked because he 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.080 got in. But the visit ended for the fictitious chimney 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.440 sweep when he was seen by a porter and chased 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.880 out and then was captured by the authorities. And when 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.520 they captured him, they found that he had the Queen's 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:02.120 underwear hidden in his pants. I have questions because if 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.159 you look at pantalets from this era, right, it's not 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.680 like a pair of underwear today. Right, It's like he 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.480 had like bloomers shot. It's like fabric. Even the way 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:14.800 they're cut is not straight cut the way we would 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.600 have pants today. They had a lot of extra fabric 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.120 at the back to allow movement, but it would have 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:25.160 been probably a very very delicate, thin, really beautiful material. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:26.600 So he may have been able to watt it up 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.680 quite tiny. But could it have been like a silk 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:33.880 or something. No, not for her, probably not. It probably 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.440 would have been a really really nice, high grade cotton 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.040 or even maybe linen. Don't quote me on this. I 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.840 didn't prep And maybe they knew that he had them 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.640 in his pants because there was a large bulge from 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.800 like around his knees. But I mean, keep in mind, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.120 the whole reason for undergarments. It was to keep your 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.840 clothes from getting soiled and to keep them beautiful. So 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:55.680 they had to be things that could be washed. That's 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.400 why something like a silk would probably not have been it. Right, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:04.160 So this trial, the after the Debacle of the underpants 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.000 was kind of treated like a joke, because it is 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.120 as silly as it sounds, the Debacle of the underpand 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.960 that's going to be the movie that we've made about. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.480 And his defense referred to the event as quote youthful 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.360 folly and not for any felonious purpose, and it was 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.560 kind of laughed at, just as we are. And so 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.400 Jones was ultimately acquitted because no one took it seriously. Sure, 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.680 they had a fourteen year old boy who scaled the 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.599 ball and came into the palace for one time. That 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.960 single time, I can see taking it as a joke. 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:45.360 But the problem became that Jones kept going back to 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:50.360 the palace. Uh. He stole food from the kitchen, he 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.040 was caught sitting on the throne twice, he slept in 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.600 the servants bed. He read the Queen's private letters, and 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.439 at some point Jones also managed to make with a 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.000 portrait of the queen, regimental sword, a letter, three pairs 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.560 of trousers, and a collection of linen's does he have 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:14.280 big pants? Like, maybe this is the answer to prob 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:20.000 A portrait, a portrait of the He was actually a tiny, 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:24.960 tiny person that was disguised as a six foot tall person. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.240 So we had lots of actor room and some skilts 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.400 with some space. Right, he just walked out with it 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.320 over his own face. He's like, this is my face portrait. Yeah. Sure. 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.320 But with all of these amazing feats of break ins 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.640 and theft, the boy Jones became a media celebrity. So 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.080 with that, we're going to take a quick break for 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.720 a word from our sponsor. And when we come back, 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.920 we're going to talk about what was up with palace 0:09:50.000 --> 0:10:07.640 security at this time. Welcome to Criminalia, all right, let's 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.720 get to talking about just how easy it was to 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:15.199 scale the walls of Buckingham Palace in the nineteenth century. Today, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.679 the Queen's Guard is responsible for guarding Buckingham Palace and 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.320 St James Palace in London. There are heat sensors that 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.080 surround the palace as well as CCTV. The grounds are 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.960 patrolled twenty four hours a day by armed guards, and 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:32.360 yet people still attempt to break in or scale the gates, 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.920 and occasionally they do. But security at the time we're 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.840 talking about was nothing like it is now. It was 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.440 not at that level. It was notoriously loose and unorganized. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.280 During Victoria's reign, she was the first royal to live 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.880 in Buckingham Palace and no one headed up palace security 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.520 at the time. Part of the problem was that in 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.000 many cases, each task of the household was managed by 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:01.080 a separate entity, and in cases where those tas overlapped, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.080 they were not always under the same supervisory umbrella. Marie 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.000 and I had been talking earlier about sort of the 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.400 infamous problem of the people who watched the outside of 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.280 the windows and the people who watched the inside of 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.560 the windows would not coordinate their schedules, so there was 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.520 never really a clean window. So it wasn't just security, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.439 but it was a lot of things in the palace 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.480 that were operating in this sort of strange, genteel sort 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.200 of chaos, and anyone and everyone, from vagrants to the 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.880 casually curious, were known to jump the walls in the 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.040 Victorian era, and pretty easily so, And there was a 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.920 great deal of fascination when it came to the new queen. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.880 When her uncle, King William the Fourth died, he left 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.520 her as a new monarch, and she was less than 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.439 a month past her eighteenth birthday. She had been raised 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.920 in a very very sheltered and protective manner by her mother, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.239 the Duchess Kent, and her mother's adviser, Sir John Conroy. 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.520 Victoria's entire childithood and the years leading up to her 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.560 reign were spent under Conroy and the Duchess's system of 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.080 very strict rules, which they called the Kensington System. Public 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.080 appearances of the princess had been carefully managed by the 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.400 adult duo, and as a consequence, the general excitement over 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.120 a new monarch was overlaid with intense curiosity about the 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.560 teenager who was on the throne. Yeah, people really didn't 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.800 feel like they knew that much about her, because even 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.280 though there had been things published about her, she was 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.960 still this sort of weird enigma that had been kept 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.960 away from them. Right now you could see her. Yes, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.719 she is real. Um. She was described as being frightened 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.600 as a young queen because of Jones, and Victoria actually 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.600 wrote in her journal after the time that the boy 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.880 Jones was removed from underneath the piece of furniture. Quote, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.040 if he had come into my bedroom, how frightened I 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.280 would have been. But honestly, with the number of times 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.000 that he got in, it kind of doesn't necessarily seem 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.400 like he was stocked the queen, but more like he 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:06.120 was stalking the palace. But then he kept taking her stuff, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:11.040 So yeah, you know, there's that. And we should also 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.280 point out like he was not the only one. Throughout 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.840 Victoria's reign. There were, of course more stalkers. We don't 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.679 know a certain number, there have been various ones bandied about. 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.080 There were also attempts on her life. It was kind 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.600 of all of the unfortunate side of what it meant 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.960 to be a monarch. Also, it wasn't the missing Linen's 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.880 that the Palace was so worried about. Initially they were. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.439 They were more fearful that Jones might hurt or even 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.120 assassinate the Queen or maybe kidnapped the Princess Royal. The 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.559 monarchy wanted to get rid of Jones at any cost. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.120 So what the Palace was really really worried about was 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.280 that the boy Jones may have seen things when he 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.120 roamed the halls, and he may have overheard things. They 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.079 weren't sure if he was privy to the secrets of 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.200 the throne or the government. They were determined to keep 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.079 him quiet and to create a large distance between him 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:09.240 and the Palace. Yet still he kept coming, and he 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.840 became a little bit of a folk hero. His palace 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.440 capers became the subject of songs and poems. They were 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.680 also written up all the time in silicious newspapers. There 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.800 was so much speculation about what he had really seen 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.000 inside the palace, and exactly what the Palace was trying 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.120 to avoid was all of this. Whether those stories were 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.000 true or not, they did not want it to be 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.280 in the press. They did not want speculation about what 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.320 might be going on. Here's the thing. It does not 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.760 appear that the boy Jones ever gossiped about what he 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.440 saw on these little escapades, even though he claimed early 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.000 on during his break ins when he would be taken 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.760 into custody, that he had intended to tell the world 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.040 what he saw, But he never really did. He just 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.880 kind of mucked about quietly and often dozed off again. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:05.160 And this time in December, the boy Jones was discovered 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.760 in the palace um. This time he was discovered underneath 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.080 the sofa in the room that was adjacent to the 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.200 Queen's private bedroom. And this time he was arrested, and 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.920 this time he was sentenced to three months in a 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:22.280 house of correction. Here's the thing about Jones and the palace. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.880 Just ten days after he was released, he went back 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.080 to the palace and he was found wandering in one 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.520 of the royal apartments. He was eventually caught by palace 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.080 guards and found himself back in front of the jury, 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.920 and this time he was sentenced to three months of 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.880 hard labor at Tothill Fields Prison. The Leicester Harold reported quote, 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.040 it would appear that there is now no doubt, but 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.600 the account given by Jones difficult as it is to 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.280 believe anything he says as to his having effected his 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.840 entrance into the palace by scaling the garden wall from 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.240 Constitution Hill and then passing through one of the French 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.280 windows which opens onto the lawn is correct. It is 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.680 said that some of the windows were broken, and that 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.360 other marks of suspicious nature were observable near the spot. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.840 Having once gained the inside of the building, the lad 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.880 from his recollection of the various staircases and passages, would 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.680 find perhaps but little difficulty in reaching the apartment in 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:30.040 which he was afterwards arrested. So, after his release from 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:37.440 hard labor in prison, Jones was yet again caught wandering 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:43.120 around Buckingham Palace. Um, I feel like every paragraph from 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.360 now on just to just start with that. Uh so 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.280 this time back at the palace. Actually, instead of a 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.080 charge or trial, he was sent to do duty as 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.040 a sailor in the Royal Navy, which, if he did 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.760 for they say more than five years. Jones served on 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.760 the HMS worst By, the h M S Inconstant and 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.480 the h M S Harlequin. A year later, he finally 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.800 got a chance to escape from his ship in Portsmouth 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:13.600 and got himself to London. However, no longer to anyone's surprise. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:19.320 You can guess where he was caught loitering in the 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.359 vicinity of Buckingham Palace and he was immediately sent back 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.760 to his ship. The last mention of the boy Jones 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.159 in the media was in eight four, and that was 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.600 when he was rescued after going overboard, presumably to swim 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.879 back to London and get to the palace in the 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.199 waters between Tunis and Algiers. You know, I wouldn't be 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.200 surprised if he was planning to swim, because there was 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.040 one account that said that he walked himself to London 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.600 after he got off the ship. Now it was not 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.159 a good source, you know, but still the idea of 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.840 the walking in the swimming to get back to it 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:00.280 fits ragul fence. So there's actually another version that we 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.160 should talk about. Um. The second version of this story 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.480 regarding Jones's time in the navy actually doesn't have the 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.240 Navy in it whatsoever. There's a version of this story 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.800 that suggests he was invited to join the Royal Navy 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.840 in an effort to get him at sea and far 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.359 away from the Palace, and in this version, Jones refused 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:27.040 to deploy, so the monarchy kidnapped him and deported him 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.840 to Brazil. And in this scenario he was kept on 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.000 board a prison ship for about five to six years, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.600 without any official charge or trial, and never getting close 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.640 enough to the shore to plan an escape. We're gonna 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.160 have a quick break now, and whenn't we get back, 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:50.879 we're going to talk about how Jones ended up in Australia. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:19:03.080 Welcome back to Criminalia. So now let's talk about Edward 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.800 Jones in Australia. Yeah, so during this time in the 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.320 Victorian era, I think it's fairly common knowledge that convicts 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.640 and other people deemed unsavory were frequently deported from Great 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.560 Britain to the penal colony that was then Australia. And 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.879 after his time in the navy or aboard that prison ship, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.240 whichever you believe, Jones was deported to Australia and there 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.080 he is said to have sold pies and generally kind 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.320 of just tried to keep a low profile and lead 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.119 something akin to a normal life. And for years in 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.720 both the UK and Australia, people are said to have 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.800 followed him around shouting there's the boy who went to 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.720 visit the queen. Well he did, It's a true statement. 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.840 So in the eighteen eighties, as a grown man who 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.439 wished to return to being an unknown man, Edward Jones 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.359 changed his name to Thomas Jones. Jones did have truly 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:05.240 become an alcoholic and possibly also a burglar. When he 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.480 decided he returned to England. His brother persuaded him to 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.080 go back to Australia, which he did and he became 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:16.199 the town crier in Perth. He died in Australia um 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.840 when he was drunk and he had fallen off the 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.000 Mitchell River Bridge and he landed unfortunately on his head. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:29.080 So unlike what the stalker profile that today's FBI suggests, 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.200 Jones never thought that he and the Queen were destined 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.280 to be together. He didn't want to kill her. He's 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.800 been described by modern historians as a quote very weird 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.879 character and a very solitary man who, apart from his 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.040 visits to Queen Victoria's palace, wasn't particularly interested in women. 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.120 But what he did want to do was he wanted 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.320 to sit on the throne. He wanted to read her books, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.440 he wanted to go through her things, and in general, 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.639 he wanted to enter the palace, but really not to 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.280 see the Victoria or her new baby or anyone who 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.200 worked or lived there, and that's what he did mostly. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.800 Um he gained access through some pretty simple methods, including 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:15.200 security breaches like unlocked doors or unshuttered windows on the 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.960 ground floor, and once he got inside, he did things 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.679 like sit on the throne, he hit under the Queen's sofa, 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.879 and he stole her underwear. I would give a jillion 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.560 dollars to just find out what he was thinking during 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.400 any of this. As he's laying under the sofa, He's like, 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:33.760 how am I going to get out of here? Right? 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:35.960 Like is he like yeah, I'm in the palace, or 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.440 like why do I keep doing this? He was caught 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.200 on the premises three times, and he admitted that he 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.960 had been in the palace a fourth time, and today 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.840 historians believe that he likely entered Buckingham Palace many other 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.439 times that he just never got caught. And the thing is, 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.520 he didn't always feel compelled to steal things every time 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.800 he made a visit, so it's really hard to track 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.360 him because the records of like, oh something's missing might 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.440 not always reflect whether or not he had been there. Right, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.199 sometimes you just need to sit on the throne, Like, 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:08.679 what are you doing this afternoon, I'm going to sit 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.879 on the throne. I'm going to the moon on the moon. 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:18.200 So this all makes the Boy Jones the first celebrity 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.320 stalker on record, um, but he was certainly not the 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.040 only potential threat to Queen Victoria at this time, and 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.480 certainly not the only intruder to Buckingham Palace. In fact, 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.880 unwelcome guests still to this day try to break into 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.600 the palace, probably on a daily basis. I would say, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.960 I mean they've got a lot of security during the 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.960 summer of eight for example. To look at some of 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.960 these historical other instances that puts this right. At the 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.960 same time as when the Boy Jones started his series 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.840 of fourays into the Palace, there was a silversmith named 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.200 Thomas Flower who was found sleeping in a chair outside 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:55.719 Queen Victoria's bedroom. He was known about Buckingham Palace as 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.119 one of the Queen's unrelenting admirers, and he ended up 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.680 being sent to prison for gaining entry into the palace. 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.199 See the Boy Jones doesn't know how good he has it, 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:11.280 so there's one more interesting Buckingham Palace intrusion story, but 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.880 it's not during the Victorian period. It's during a more 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:18.800 modern era. It's it's two. In fact, there was a 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.480 man named Michael Fagan who was found inside Buckingham Palace, 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.800 and like the boy Jones, the visits happened on more 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:30.320 than one occasion. He roamed rooms that were used by 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.080 Princess Diana as well as the Queen. He looked around 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.800 the palace. Allegedly he sat on the throne for a bit. 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.320 I think if you break into Buckingham Palace though against like, 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.160 aren't you committed to sitting on the throne? Like I'm 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:50.560 already you know these days it's self beyond the throne? Yeah, 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:55.600 not man. But in two breaking into Buckingham Palace was 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.520 actually a civil rather than a criminal offense, so he 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:05.200 was actually charged with something rather hilarious. Rather than being 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.280 in the palace, he was charged with the theft of 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.520 a snack of cheese and crackers and the wine he 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:16.560 had drunk while he was in the palace, which I love. 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.040 He's like, how much for a square cheese? Okay? I 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:27.400 got it, so holly. Speaking of drinking at the palace. Yes, 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.439 I hear you have some drinks for us? Is that 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:33.560 we won't be drinking at the palace. No, you're wherever 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:37.879