Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda land Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the
Speaker 1: second season of Criminalia. This season, we're exploring the lives
Speaker 1: and motivations of some of the most notorious stalkers throughout history.
Speaker 1: I'm Maria Trumarqui and I'm Holly Fry. And while our
Speaker 1: first season was all about women poisoner, season two all
Speaker 1: about stalkers. And today we're going to talk about a
Speaker 1: teenage stalker who stole the young Queen Victoria's underwear. And
Speaker 1: as that intro suggests, especially because we're laughing about it,
Speaker 1: this particular stalker story has the distinction of being definitely
Speaker 1: more odd than it does scary. Absolutely So first let's
Speaker 1: set our scene. So this is nineteen century England during
Speaker 1: the Victorian Era, which is generally considered to be about
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty seven to nineteen o one, which is the
Speaker 1: life of Queen Victoria. Um but give or take a
Speaker 1: few years uneat end. It was a period of time
Speaker 1: when there was rapid development and change happening. Victoria came
Speaker 1: to the throne in eighteen thirty seven at the age
Speaker 1: of eighteen as Queen of the United Kingdom of Great
Speaker 1: Britain and Ireland. All accounts say that she was stout
Speaker 1: and considered dowdy, and although she wasn't actually even five
Speaker 1: ft tall, she succeeded in projecting herself to be much larger.
Speaker 1: Her reign lasted sixty three years and seven months. She
Speaker 1: was the record holder until current Queen Elizabeth seconds and
Speaker 1: Victoria's reign began at a time of the world's first
Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution. This was a time of great change for
Speaker 1: obviously the industrial but also the political, scientific, and military
Speaker 1: sectors within the United Kingdom. This is also a time
Speaker 1: when the British Empire became the first global industrial power
Speaker 1: and produced much of the world's coal, iron, steel, and textiles.
Speaker 1: During this time, the UK changed from an agricultural country
Speaker 1: to an industrialized one, and while that was good for
Speaker 1: the middle class, a lot of people continued to suffer
Speaker 1: from deep poverty. This is also a time that gets
Speaker 1: a lot of valid discussion about colonization and the expanding
Speaker 1: of empire by taking over other people's lands. It's a
Speaker 1: strange time where development is going on and a lot
Speaker 1: of bad things are happening in the name of that development.
Speaker 1: There were harsh factory conditions. There was unsafe housing, there
Speaker 1: was really bad sanitation, and along with all of this,
Speaker 1: of course, where's excessive drinking. Women were also in the workplace,
Speaker 1: which some people saw as a moral problem. This was
Speaker 1: a problem. There was also a decline in religious fervor
Speaker 1: at this time, right. So, in eighteen forty, two to
Speaker 1: three years after her reign began, Victoria married Prince Albert,
Speaker 1: who happened to be her first cousin. Uh, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave it at that. Victoria, who was deeply in love,
Speaker 1: was the one who proposed to Albert, and during their
Speaker 1: seventeen years of marriage they had nine children. Um In fact,
Speaker 1: also at this time in Great Britain as well as
Speaker 1: elsewhere in Europe and in the United States, the idea
Speaker 1: that marriage should be based in romantic love rather than
Speaker 1: for money or another strategic reason that you can come
Speaker 1: up with romantic love was gaining popularity. Victoria also helped
Speaker 1: cement that idea, right. She was in many ways a
Speaker 1: trend setter, right. The idea of the white wedding dress
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to her. We should also point
Speaker 1: out that she, in terms of social and Royal Moray's
Speaker 1: at the time, she had to be the one to propose.
Speaker 1: Albert could not propose to her because she was a
Speaker 1: higher station than him, which would have been just not
Speaker 1: okay at all. So it was the time of things
Speaker 1: that were more exciting than marrying for money in Royal
Speaker 1: Bay Bees though. It was also the time of Charles
Speaker 1: Dickens and Charles Darwin and Florence Nightingale and the steam
Speaker 1: powered locomotive and the first telegraph and telephone. This was
Speaker 1: a really exciting time to be alive. We talked about
Speaker 1: our technological age and things moving so quickly that felt
Speaker 1: like this to a lot of people where they were
Speaker 1: just like, do you mean I can talk to somebody
Speaker 1: who was far away? Absolutely? Absolutely, I mean like I think,
Speaker 1: what was it? The penny black? Is that what it
Speaker 1: was called? The very first black penny postage stamp also
Speaker 1: happened during Victoria's reign, like you could, you could connect
Speaker 1: with people in ways that you could never have connected before.
Speaker 1: And it's in this time period that Edward Jones, or
Speaker 1: as the newspapers nicknamed him, the Boy Jones, was born
Speaker 1: in London some time around eighteen four. His father was
Speaker 1: a tailor and his family was very poor but by
Speaker 1: the time that Edward Jones was fourteen years old, he
Speaker 1: had become the first celebrity stalker. So this all started
Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty eight when Jones was overheard bragging to
Speaker 1: his employer about walking through Buckingham Palace. But no one
Speaker 1: believed that he had done this or that he would
Speaker 1: do this. The very thought of a commoner just strolling
Speaker 1: through the palace was absolutely absurd. It would be like
Speaker 1: me going Maria yesterday I was on the moon like.
Speaker 1: It was that level of just ridiculous to the hearer, Right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back this weekend, like, oh my
Speaker 1: gonna all the time about you. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: as absurd as it sounded, between eighteen thirty eight and
Speaker 1: eighteen forty one, Jones did break into Buckingham Palace way
Speaker 1: more than once. He was good at it more than once.
Speaker 1: It was like he just walked in the front door.
Speaker 1: At the end of it, he's like, hey, I'm here.
Speaker 1: Oh that kid's back right right, we know him. He's
Speaker 1: been here a hundred and two times. So or to
Speaker 1: start at the beginning, the story of the boy Jones
Speaker 1: has been over the years basically pieced together using newspaper
Speaker 1: reports from the first years of Victoria's reign and the
Speaker 1: first time that he entered Buckingham Palace in he did
Speaker 1: it with a disguise. He disguised himself as a chimney sweeper.
Speaker 1: In History tells us that Jones was not a particularly
Speaker 1: good looking gent. He's described as having a wide mouth
Speaker 1: and a low brow and not really um super good
Speaker 1: about bathing regularly. Not some good higien there, right. So
Speaker 1: word is that he thought he wouldn't stand out dressed
Speaker 1: as a chimney sweep, and that apparently worked because he
Speaker 1: got in. But the visit ended for the fictitious chimney
Speaker 1: sweep when he was seen by a porter and chased
Speaker 1: out and then was captured by the authorities. And when
Speaker 1: they captured him, they found that he had the Queen's
Speaker 1: underwear hidden in his pants. I have questions because if
Speaker 1: you look at pantalets from this era, right, it's not
Speaker 1: like a pair of underwear today. Right, It's like he
Speaker 1: had like bloomers shot. It's like fabric. Even the way
Speaker 1: they're cut is not straight cut the way we would
Speaker 1: have pants today. They had a lot of extra fabric
Speaker 1: at the back to allow movement, but it would have
Speaker 1: been probably a very very delicate, thin, really beautiful material.
Speaker 1: So he may have been able to watt it up
Speaker 1: quite tiny. But could it have been like a silk
Speaker 1: or something. No, not for her, probably not. It probably
Speaker 1: would have been a really really nice, high grade cotton
Speaker 1: or even maybe linen. Don't quote me on this. I
Speaker 1: didn't prep And maybe they knew that he had them
Speaker 1: in his pants because there was a large bulge from
Speaker 1: like around his knees. But I mean, keep in mind,
Speaker 1: the whole reason for undergarments. It was to keep your
Speaker 1: clothes from getting soiled and to keep them beautiful. So
Speaker 1: they had to be things that could be washed. That's
Speaker 1: why something like a silk would probably not have been it. Right,
Speaker 1: So this trial, the after the Debacle of the underpants
Speaker 1: was kind of treated like a joke, because it is
Speaker 1: as silly as it sounds, the Debacle of the underpand
Speaker 1: that's going to be the movie that we've made about.
Speaker 1: And his defense referred to the event as quote youthful
Speaker 1: folly and not for any felonious purpose, and it was
Speaker 1: kind of laughed at, just as we are. And so
Speaker 1: Jones was ultimately acquitted because no one took it seriously. Sure,
Speaker 1: they had a fourteen year old boy who scaled the
Speaker 1: ball and came into the palace for one time. That
Speaker 1: single time, I can see taking it as a joke.
Speaker 1: But the problem became that Jones kept going back to
Speaker 1: the palace. Uh. He stole food from the kitchen, he
Speaker 1: was caught sitting on the throne twice, he slept in
Speaker 1: the servants bed. He read the Queen's private letters, and
Speaker 1: at some point Jones also managed to make with a
Speaker 1: portrait of the queen, regimental sword, a letter, three pairs
Speaker 1: of trousers, and a collection of linen's does he have
Speaker 1: big pants? Like, maybe this is the answer to prob
Speaker 1: A portrait, a portrait of the He was actually a tiny,
Speaker 1: tiny person that was disguised as a six foot tall person.
Speaker 1: So we had lots of actor room and some skilts
Speaker 1: with some space. Right, he just walked out with it
Speaker 1: over his own face. He's like, this is my face portrait. Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1: But with all of these amazing feats of break ins
Speaker 1: and theft, the boy Jones became a media celebrity. So
Speaker 1: with that, we're going to take a quick break for
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. And when we come back,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what was up with palace
Speaker 1: security at this time. Welcome to Criminalia, all right, let's
Speaker 1: get to talking about just how easy it was to
Speaker 1: scale the walls of Buckingham Palace in the nineteenth century. Today,
Speaker 1: the Queen's Guard is responsible for guarding Buckingham Palace and
Speaker 1: St James Palace in London. There are heat sensors that
Speaker 1: surround the palace as well as CCTV. The grounds are
Speaker 1: patrolled twenty four hours a day by armed guards, and
Speaker 1: yet people still attempt to break in or scale the gates,
Speaker 1: and occasionally they do. But security at the time we're
Speaker 1: talking about was nothing like it is now. It was
Speaker 1: not at that level. It was notoriously loose and unorganized.
Speaker 1: During Victoria's reign, she was the first royal to live
Speaker 1: in Buckingham Palace and no one headed up palace security
Speaker 1: at the time. Part of the problem was that in
Speaker 1: many cases, each task of the household was managed by
Speaker 1: a separate entity, and in cases where those tas overlapped,
Speaker 1: they were not always under the same supervisory umbrella. Marie
Speaker 1: and I had been talking earlier about sort of the
Speaker 1: infamous problem of the people who watched the outside of
Speaker 1: the windows and the people who watched the inside of
Speaker 1: the windows would not coordinate their schedules, so there was
Speaker 1: never really a clean window. So it wasn't just security,
Speaker 1: but it was a lot of things in the palace
Speaker 1: that were operating in this sort of strange, genteel sort
Speaker 1: of chaos, and anyone and everyone, from vagrants to the
Speaker 1: casually curious, were known to jump the walls in the
Speaker 1: Victorian era, and pretty easily so, And there was a
Speaker 1: great deal of fascination when it came to the new queen.
Speaker 1: When her uncle, King William the Fourth died, he left
Speaker 1: her as a new monarch, and she was less than
Speaker 1: a month past her eighteenth birthday. She had been raised
Speaker 1: in a very very sheltered and protective manner by her mother,
Speaker 1: the Duchess Kent, and her mother's adviser, Sir John Conroy.
Speaker 1: Victoria's entire childithood and the years leading up to her
Speaker 1: reign were spent under Conroy and the Duchess's system of
Speaker 1: very strict rules, which they called the Kensington System. Public
Speaker 1: appearances of the princess had been carefully managed by the
Speaker 1: adult duo, and as a consequence, the general excitement over
Speaker 1: a new monarch was overlaid with intense curiosity about the
Speaker 1: teenager who was on the throne. Yeah, people really didn't
Speaker 1: feel like they knew that much about her, because even
Speaker 1: though there had been things published about her, she was
Speaker 1: still this sort of weird enigma that had been kept
Speaker 1: away from them. Right now you could see her. Yes,
Speaker 1: she is real. Um. She was described as being frightened
Speaker 1: as a young queen because of Jones, and Victoria actually
Speaker 1: wrote in her journal after the time that the boy
Speaker 1: Jones was removed from underneath the piece of furniture. Quote,
Speaker 1: if he had come into my bedroom, how frightened I
Speaker 1: would have been. But honestly, with the number of times
Speaker 1: that he got in, it kind of doesn't necessarily seem
Speaker 1: like he was stocked the queen, but more like he
Speaker 1: was stalking the palace. But then he kept taking her stuff,
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, there's that. And we should also
Speaker 1: point out like he was not the only one. Throughout
Speaker 1: Victoria's reign. There were, of course more stalkers. We don't
Speaker 1: know a certain number, there have been various ones bandied about.
Speaker 1: There were also attempts on her life. It was kind
Speaker 1: of all of the unfortunate side of what it meant
Speaker 1: to be a monarch. Also, it wasn't the missing Linen's
Speaker 1: that the Palace was so worried about. Initially they were.
Speaker 1: They were more fearful that Jones might hurt or even
Speaker 1: assassinate the Queen or maybe kidnapped the Princess Royal. The
Speaker 1: monarchy wanted to get rid of Jones at any cost.
Speaker 1: So what the Palace was really really worried about was
Speaker 1: that the boy Jones may have seen things when he
Speaker 1: roamed the halls, and he may have overheard things. They
Speaker 1: weren't sure if he was privy to the secrets of
Speaker 1: the throne or the government. They were determined to keep
Speaker 1: him quiet and to create a large distance between him
Speaker 1: and the Palace. Yet still he kept coming, and he
Speaker 1: became a little bit of a folk hero. His palace
Speaker 1: capers became the subject of songs and poems. They were
Speaker 1: also written up all the time in silicious newspapers. There
Speaker 1: was so much speculation about what he had really seen
Speaker 1: inside the palace, and exactly what the Palace was trying
Speaker 1: to avoid was all of this. Whether those stories were
Speaker 1: true or not, they did not want it to be
Speaker 1: in the press. They did not want speculation about what
Speaker 1: might be going on. Here's the thing. It does not
Speaker 1: appear that the boy Jones ever gossiped about what he
Speaker 1: saw on these little escapades, even though he claimed early
Speaker 1: on during his break ins when he would be taken
Speaker 1: into custody, that he had intended to tell the world
Speaker 1: what he saw, But he never really did. He just
Speaker 1: kind of mucked about quietly and often dozed off again.
Speaker 1: And this time in December, the boy Jones was discovered
Speaker 1: in the palace um. This time he was discovered underneath
Speaker 1: the sofa in the room that was adjacent to the
Speaker 1: Queen's private bedroom. And this time he was arrested, and
Speaker 1: this time he was sentenced to three months in a
Speaker 1: house of correction. Here's the thing about Jones and the palace.
Speaker 1: Just ten days after he was released, he went back
Speaker 1: to the palace and he was found wandering in one
Speaker 1: of the royal apartments. He was eventually caught by palace
Speaker 1: guards and found himself back in front of the jury,
Speaker 1: and this time he was sentenced to three months of
Speaker 1: hard labor at Tothill Fields Prison. The Leicester Harold reported quote,
Speaker 1: it would appear that there is now no doubt, but
Speaker 1: the account given by Jones difficult as it is to
Speaker 1: believe anything he says as to his having effected his
Speaker 1: entrance into the palace by scaling the garden wall from
Speaker 1: Constitution Hill and then passing through one of the French
Speaker 1: windows which opens onto the lawn is correct. It is
Speaker 1: said that some of the windows were broken, and that
Speaker 1: other marks of suspicious nature were observable near the spot.
Speaker 1: Having once gained the inside of the building, the lad
Speaker 1: from his recollection of the various staircases and passages, would
Speaker 1: find perhaps but little difficulty in reaching the apartment in
Speaker 1: which he was afterwards arrested. So, after his release from
Speaker 1: hard labor in prison, Jones was yet again caught wandering
Speaker 1: around Buckingham Palace. Um, I feel like every paragraph from
Speaker 1: now on just to just start with that. Uh so
Speaker 1: this time back at the palace. Actually, instead of a
Speaker 1: charge or trial, he was sent to do duty as
Speaker 1: a sailor in the Royal Navy, which, if he did
Speaker 1: for they say more than five years. Jones served on
Speaker 1: the HMS worst By, the h M S Inconstant and
Speaker 1: the h M S Harlequin. A year later, he finally
Speaker 1: got a chance to escape from his ship in Portsmouth
Speaker 1: and got himself to London. However, no longer to anyone's surprise.
Speaker 1: You can guess where he was caught loitering in the
Speaker 1: vicinity of Buckingham Palace and he was immediately sent back
Speaker 1: to his ship. The last mention of the boy Jones
Speaker 1: in the media was in eight four, and that was
Speaker 1: when he was rescued after going overboard, presumably to swim
Speaker 1: back to London and get to the palace in the
Speaker 1: waters between Tunis and Algiers. You know, I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: surprised if he was planning to swim, because there was
Speaker 1: one account that said that he walked himself to London
Speaker 1: after he got off the ship. Now it was not
Speaker 1: a good source, you know, but still the idea of
Speaker 1: the walking in the swimming to get back to it
Speaker 1: fits ragul fence. So there's actually another version that we
Speaker 1: should talk about. Um. The second version of this story
Speaker 1: regarding Jones's time in the navy actually doesn't have the
Speaker 1: Navy in it whatsoever. There's a version of this story
Speaker 1: that suggests he was invited to join the Royal Navy
Speaker 1: in an effort to get him at sea and far
Speaker 1: away from the Palace, and in this version, Jones refused
Speaker 1: to deploy, so the monarchy kidnapped him and deported him
Speaker 1: to Brazil. And in this scenario he was kept on
Speaker 1: board a prison ship for about five to six years,
Speaker 1: without any official charge or trial, and never getting close
Speaker 1: enough to the shore to plan an escape. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have a quick break now, and whenn't we get back,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how Jones ended up in Australia.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Criminalia. So now let's talk about Edward
Speaker 1: Jones in Australia. Yeah, so during this time in the
Speaker 1: Victorian era, I think it's fairly common knowledge that convicts
Speaker 1: and other people deemed unsavory were frequently deported from Great
Speaker 1: Britain to the penal colony that was then Australia. And
Speaker 1: after his time in the navy or aboard that prison ship,
Speaker 1: whichever you believe, Jones was deported to Australia and there
Speaker 1: he is said to have sold pies and generally kind
Speaker 1: of just tried to keep a low profile and lead
Speaker 1: something akin to a normal life. And for years in
Speaker 1: both the UK and Australia, people are said to have
Speaker 1: followed him around shouting there's the boy who went to
Speaker 1: visit the queen. Well he did, It's a true statement.
Speaker 1: So in the eighteen eighties, as a grown man who
Speaker 1: wished to return to being an unknown man, Edward Jones
Speaker 1: changed his name to Thomas Jones. Jones did have truly
Speaker 1: become an alcoholic and possibly also a burglar. When he
Speaker 1: decided he returned to England. His brother persuaded him to
Speaker 1: go back to Australia, which he did and he became
Speaker 1: the town crier in Perth. He died in Australia um
Speaker 1: when he was drunk and he had fallen off the
Speaker 1: Mitchell River Bridge and he landed unfortunately on his head.
Speaker 1: So unlike what the stalker profile that today's FBI suggests,
Speaker 1: Jones never thought that he and the Queen were destined
Speaker 1: to be together. He didn't want to kill her. He's
Speaker 1: been described by modern historians as a quote very weird
Speaker 1: character and a very solitary man who, apart from his
Speaker 1: visits to Queen Victoria's palace, wasn't particularly interested in women.
Speaker 1: But what he did want to do was he wanted
Speaker 1: to sit on the throne. He wanted to read her books,
Speaker 1: he wanted to go through her things, and in general,
Speaker 1: he wanted to enter the palace, but really not to
Speaker 1: see the Victoria or her new baby or anyone who
Speaker 1: worked or lived there, and that's what he did mostly.
Speaker 1: Um he gained access through some pretty simple methods, including
Speaker 1: security breaches like unlocked doors or unshuttered windows on the
Speaker 1: ground floor, and once he got inside, he did things
Speaker 1: like sit on the throne, he hit under the Queen's sofa,
Speaker 1: and he stole her underwear. I would give a jillion
Speaker 1: dollars to just find out what he was thinking during
Speaker 1: any of this. As he's laying under the sofa, He's like,
Speaker 1: how am I going to get out of here? Right?
Speaker 1: Like is he like yeah, I'm in the palace, or
Speaker 1: like why do I keep doing this? He was caught
Speaker 1: on the premises three times, and he admitted that he
Speaker 1: had been in the palace a fourth time, and today
Speaker 1: historians believe that he likely entered Buckingham Palace many other
Speaker 1: times that he just never got caught. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: he didn't always feel compelled to steal things every time
Speaker 1: he made a visit, so it's really hard to track
Speaker 1: him because the records of like, oh something's missing might
Speaker 1: not always reflect whether or not he had been there. Right,
Speaker 1: sometimes you just need to sit on the throne, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing this afternoon, I'm going to sit
Speaker 1: on the throne. I'm going to the moon on the moon.
Speaker 1: So this all makes the Boy Jones the first celebrity
Speaker 1: stalker on record, um, but he was certainly not the
Speaker 1: only potential threat to Queen Victoria at this time, and
Speaker 1: certainly not the only intruder to Buckingham Palace. In fact,
Speaker 1: unwelcome guests still to this day try to break into
Speaker 1: the palace, probably on a daily basis. I would say,
Speaker 1: I mean they've got a lot of security during the
Speaker 1: summer of eight for example. To look at some of
Speaker 1: these historical other instances that puts this right. At the
Speaker 1: same time as when the Boy Jones started his series
Speaker 1: of fourays into the Palace, there was a silversmith named
Speaker 1: Thomas Flower who was found sleeping in a chair outside
Speaker 1: Queen Victoria's bedroom. He was known about Buckingham Palace as
Speaker 1: one of the Queen's unrelenting admirers, and he ended up
Speaker 1: being sent to prison for gaining entry into the palace.
Speaker 1: See the Boy Jones doesn't know how good he has it,
Speaker 1: so there's one more interesting Buckingham Palace intrusion story, but
Speaker 1: it's not during the Victorian period. It's during a more
Speaker 1: modern era. It's it's two. In fact, there was a
Speaker 1: man named Michael Fagan who was found inside Buckingham Palace,
Speaker 1: and like the boy Jones, the visits happened on more
Speaker 1: than one occasion. He roamed rooms that were used by
Speaker 1: Princess Diana as well as the Queen. He looked around
Speaker 1: the palace. Allegedly he sat on the throne for a bit.
Speaker 1: I think if you break into Buckingham Palace though against like,
Speaker 1: aren't you committed to sitting on the throne? Like I'm
Speaker 1: already you know these days it's self beyond the throne? Yeah,
Speaker 1: not man. But in two breaking into Buckingham Palace was
Speaker 1: actually a civil rather than a criminal offense, so he
Speaker 1: was actually charged with something rather hilarious. Rather than being
Speaker 1: in the palace, he was charged with the theft of
Speaker 1: a snack of cheese and crackers and the wine he
Speaker 1: had drunk while he was in the palace, which I love.
Speaker 1: He's like, how much for a square cheese? Okay? I
Speaker 1: got it, so holly. Speaking of drinking at the palace. Yes,
Speaker 1: I hear you have some drinks for us? Is that
Speaker 1: we won't be drinking at the palace. No, you're wherever
Speaker 1: you are as a palace. Um. Yes, let's think of it. This.
Speaker 1: It is time for the chaser. So one of the
Speaker 1: things I wanted to do, since we were talking about
Speaker 1: the Victorian era, one of my very favorites, was actually
Speaker 1: to look up and make a cocktail from that era.
Speaker 1: And so what I ended up finding was the cocktail,
Speaker 1: which was a drink that was written down in three
Speaker 1: Let me tell you a thing about this. I read
Speaker 1: this and I said, this is gonna be foul. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what actually happened. So it's a really simple recipe.
Speaker 1: I mean you can see that this is like where
Speaker 1: it starts where people start mixing things. This recipe is
Speaker 1: a teaspoon of fine sugar or simple syrup, two ounces
Speaker 1: of rye whiskey, rum gin or brandy, your choice. I
Speaker 1: went with brandy for mine. Three ounces of water, four
Speaker 1: dashes of bitters. You mix all that together and then
Speaker 1: you sprinkle it with nutmeg on top. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is just watered down booze. It's watered down booze.
Speaker 1: That you've dressed up, you watered it down, and you
Speaker 1: put some pants on it. But here's the thing. I
Speaker 1: actually thought it was delightful. Um yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: I really I expected to be like that's of me
Speaker 1: drinking water down booze and being chagrinned about it. But
Speaker 1: in fact, just that little bit of syrup and nutmeg,
Speaker 1: like you can see where someone was like, I want
Speaker 1: to make someone a drink that they can actually drink
Speaker 1: instead of just chugging straight alcohol. I will water it down,
Speaker 1: but then we have to add some other things to
Speaker 1: make it a little fancier. And you know what, it
Speaker 1: was just fine. I would make it again, excellent. Is
Speaker 1: it going to become my go to? It is not.
Speaker 1: But because I was doing that one, I also had
Speaker 1: this moment as I was making that one where I
Speaker 1: was like, I have missed my opportunity. I want to
Speaker 1: make another drink. Really though this is inspired by the
Speaker 1: boy Jones and it's not a real recipe though it
Speaker 1: is a d I y. It's like a mad lib
Speaker 1: of a recipe. It's so simple. I love when you
Speaker 1: do choose your own adventure beverages, Like it's my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: When you're like this, this, or this, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I gotta make all those versions, try them all. This
Speaker 1: is really like so simple and basic that it is
Speaker 1: like a good way for people who have an experimented
Speaker 1: much with making cocktails to start playing a little bit
Speaker 1: in a really easy, hard to mess up way. It
Speaker 1: is more of a category of cocktails that I call,
Speaker 1: in honor of Boy Jones, mostly harmless. I can't I
Speaker 1: can't recall a quote from the from the trial, like, no,
Speaker 1: there's no felonious activity going on. It's mostly harmless. Five
Speaker 1: ounces of any mixer, so a juice if you want it,
Speaker 1: soda if you prefer it, and just one ounce of
Speaker 1: a liqueur. That seems like a good match. I made
Speaker 1: one that was orange juice with triple sex, so an
Speaker 1: orange liqueur, and it kind of is a little just
Speaker 1: a very orangey drink. It's not heavy. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: be like stumbling a drunk by any means. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can do at that point, like a pineapple juice
Speaker 1: and a vanilla liqueur. You can do a lime juice
Speaker 1: and a rose liquor. You can also do something like
Speaker 1: a lemon lime soda, like a seven upper, a sprite
Speaker 1: and then put something like a violet liqueur in there,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty and it makes it like it feels
Speaker 1: a little fancy, but it's also mostly harmless, so that
Speaker 1: would be that would be fantastic. Yeah, you're like, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I specify liqueur because for the most part, it
Speaker 1: is not true to say this, but most liquors are
Speaker 1: a little bit lower in alcohol content than a than
Speaker 1: other spirits than a liquor. Not always there are exceptions
Speaker 1: to that rule, but it also just like it's the softest.
Speaker 1: If you mess it up, it's no big deal. It's
Speaker 1: mostly harmless. Have you tried this drink using any sort
Speaker 1: of pumpkin spice flavor in anything? Yet? Sort of? I
Speaker 1: found it is called pumpkin spice sipping cream. It's basically
Speaker 1: a cream liqueur that's that has pumpkin flavor in it.
Speaker 1: They also do a butter pecan one that's amazing. Those
Speaker 1: are great in a little bit of coffee, right, I bet,
Speaker 1: I bet? And it is like a nice especially as
Speaker 1: we are currently in the Northern Hemisphere at least in winter,
Speaker 1: so it's a nice little warm up to just put
Speaker 1: a dash. You don't need much liqueur in there great
Speaker 1: little warm coffee nummies, mostly harmless, mostly harmless. Don't drink
Speaker 1: a million it stops being harmless, but mostly harmless. Just
Speaker 1: like the Boy Jones. It's like the starter kit to
Speaker 1: make you think about how to create cocktails that you
Speaker 1: might enjoy. I think that's great. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people might want to, you know, do the kitchen
Speaker 1: science experiments like you do, but but aren't necessary, especially
Speaker 1: because you inspire them to do that, but aren't necessarily sure.
Speaker 1: We're to try because I've never done that before. I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of like pick a liqueur that you
Speaker 1: really like, and then play with it with a bunch
Speaker 1: of different mixers and see what works and what does it.
Speaker 1: Thank you again. Now I'm just gonna go make myself
Speaker 1: a cocktail. Just sit here and talk about chasers all
Speaker 1: day long, maybe, But instead what we will do is
Speaker 1: let you go about your business and thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us here in Criminalalia. We're Marianne. I
Speaker 1: love to talk about not just the Chasers, but also
Speaker 1: all of these strange criminals. We will see you back
Speaker 1: here next week. Criminalia is a production of Shonda Land
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