1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

5
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Tuesday, June third, and

6
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 2: we have a stack night of headlines to get to tonight.

7
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 3: The Menendez brothers.

8
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 2: They were supposed to be re sentenced on Friday, Now

9
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 2: that's been postponed.

10
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 3: Are they ever going to get released?

11
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 2: Plus, we have breaking news in the Madeline McCain missing story,

12
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,879
Speaker 2: her case is being reopened, and the latest in the

13
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,879
Speaker 2: Idaho murder trial case. Some new developments there that we

14
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 2: will definitely unpack. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head U

15
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 2: Kat Studios where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries

16
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 2: and I get to do that with Courtney Armstrong, hour

17
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 2: producer and crime analyst.

18
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 3: Body move in. So, ladies, where should we begin?

19
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 4: I'm going to be talking about the Menendez brothers, So

20
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 4: let's just start right. There's just as we know, the

21
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,520
Speaker 4: Menenda's brothers have been granted basically a re sentencing, and

22
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 4: they were initially sentenced to life in prison without the

23
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 4: possibility of parole, and now they have been basically sentenced

24
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,839
Speaker 4: to life in prison with the possibility of parole. Well,

25
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,319
Speaker 4: the initial parole hearing was supposed to be on the

26
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,560
Speaker 4: thirteenth of this month, so like in ten days all right, Well,

27
00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 4: like late breaking news, it's been delayed now to August

28
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,040
Speaker 4: twenty first. Wow, And apparently this delay comes because the

29
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 4: Governor of California withdrew his request for the parole board

30
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 4: to evaluate the brothers for clemency. So they were going

31
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 4: to be maybe possibly granted clemency, which is absolutely insane

32
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 4: to me that would even happen. But because this withdrawal happened,

33
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 4: the parole hearing now has to be moved to the

34
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 4: twenty five first.

35
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 2: Well, I have to jump in here, yeah, because listen,

36
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: the Menanda's brothers. If you don't know who they are,

37
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 2: they murdered their parents, they were sentenced to life, they

38
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 2: were separated for many many years, and now are being

39
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 2: housed together in prison. And then you know, very recently

40
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 2: there was a documentary and then there was a scripted

41
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 2: project about them that Ryan Murphy, he's the person who

42
00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 2: does all those FX American horror story Touch Shows, and

43
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 2: they did this very popular, by the way, very popular

44
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,119
Speaker 2: series about them. And in the documentary too, they presented

45
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,839
Speaker 2: some new information, and that new information was that one

46
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 2: of the boys had proof of sexual abuse by his father,

47
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 2: which was ultimately what they believe was the cause and

48
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,800
Speaker 2: the root of why they committed these murders against their parents.

49
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: This was back in Beverly Hills too. If you weren't

50
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 2: following it back then, it was breaking news everywhere. And

51
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 2: really because they were so affluent, they were influential, the

52
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 2: parents were at least and it was a gruesome crime.

53
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 4: So Beverly Hills nine oh two and oh like the

54
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 4: whole like vibe back in southern California at the time

55
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 4: where I grew up there and I was living there

56
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 4: at the time. You know, we were watching OJ. This

57
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 4: is like the scenario that we're living in, right, OJ

58
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 4: gets out, Like, oh my god, OJ got out. And

59
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 4: then right after OJ, Menendez brothers went on trial, and

60
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 4: I feel like they needed a win, you know what

61
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 4: I mean, Like the DA needed this case. They were

62
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 4: on their backs, and so they excluded basically this evidence

63
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 4: that of this, you know, sexual abuse by the family

64
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,839
Speaker 4: well the father, not the family, but the father, and

65
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 4: they're accusing the mother of basically knowing about it and

66
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 4: just trying turning her blind eye, and so that's you know,

67
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 4: why she was Also I'm going to say she was executed,

68
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 4: because that's really what it was.

69
00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 3: This was an execution, and it was specifically.

70
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 5: Was shot point blank in the face. Not to be

71
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,920
Speaker 5: so gruesome, but that was called out as just a

72
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 5: really big deal to write, that's next level.

73
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 2: And it's pretty uncommon to murder your parents too. And

74
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 2: also the cover up. They went back to the real

75
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 2: world that was so haunting about this. They were young men,

76
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 2: they had the world ahead of them, and after these murders,

77
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 2: you know, they played very innocent and kind of they

78
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 2: got insurance money allegedly, and they were buying rolexes and

79
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 2: they kind of went back to the real world, so

80
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,160
Speaker 2: it seemed. And now we're finding out there is some

81
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 2: evidence to suggest that their story was accurate. I'm not

82
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,159
Speaker 2: debating that whatsoever. And also a former member from the

83
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,159
Speaker 2: band Menudo, do you remember them, Yeah, so one of

84
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 2: them getting forward because the murdered dad he was a

85
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 2: big producer in the music industry and he was a

86
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 2: manager or producer of this young man who now claims

87
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 2: that he was also sexually abused by him. You know,

88
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 2: that's pretty telling. And then also there was a letter

89
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 2: allegedly by Lyle, the older brother, right, he's the one

90
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 2: that's bald now, that he had written to a cousin

91
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 2: many many, many many years ago prior to the murders,

92
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 2: basically saying that he was in this traumatic situation with

93
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,000
Speaker 2: his father and being abused, and it was proof that

94
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 2: this was something that predated the murders, and therefore this

95
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,720
Speaker 2: is the origin story for the why. And because of that,

96
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 2: if in fact they were tried, you know, air quotes

97
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 2: correctly back in the day, they would have probably been

98
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 2: tried for manslaughter, which would have had a lower sentence,

99
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 2: and in their case they weren't. That information wasn't allowed

100
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 2: in the second trial, so they got life. So this

101
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 2: is sort of a resentencing. And you know, listen, I

102
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 2: kind of remember this being back in November. Weren't they

103
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 2: going to be home by Thanksgiving? A course that's a lawyer.

104
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 4: Well that's what the DA who basically was running for

105
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 4: reelection at the time in LA said that they might

106
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 4: be home by Thanksgiving. Well, he lost that election, and

107
00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 4: the new DA was like, eh, I'm going to be

108
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 4: looking at this, and then Newsome stepped in with, well,

109
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 4: maybe we could do clemency, and I'm like, oh my god,

110
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 4: clemency we.

111
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 2: Leady is a pardon right, just for clarity, So that

112
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,599
Speaker 2: just basically means you get to you basically get to

113
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,039
Speaker 2: go home. I think it's also worth noting just you know,

114
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 2: these two brothers now together. You know, by all accounts,

115
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 2: there's all these letters that the guards at their facility,

116
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 2: the prison guards, they're all saying what exemplary you know

117
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 2: inmates they've been, and they've been not only a blessing

118
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,600
Speaker 2: to the system, but they've also really reformed themselves and

119
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 2: they're clearly not a danger to society.

120
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,840
Speaker 5: And they also helped reform others who are around them

121
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 5: and have really taken on like other prisoners under their wing.

122
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 5: So they have done well, which you know, if you

123
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 5: believe that prison should be a place to reform, then

124
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 5: right that helpful.

125
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 4: I just feel like clemency is just going a little

126
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,159
Speaker 4: bit too far. I mean, they did brutally let's be real,

127
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to be graphic, but they did

128
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 4: brutally kill their parents.

129
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's super confusing.

130
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's super confusing because again we all have empathy

131
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,559
Speaker 2: for that, no question even that horrible abuse happened.

132
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 4: But to get clemency for that, I think that's just

133
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 4: a little bit too much.

134
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 2: Right, And that's why is their origin story? I you know,

135
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 2: listened up making an assertion here that if we if

136
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,960
Speaker 2: we lined up all violent murderers behind bars, chances are

137
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: they have a terrible origin story that was maybe not

138
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 2: taken into account. Does everybody get resentence now or just cherry.

139
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 4: That Ryan Murphy makes sexy scripted shows about on Netflix exactly,

140
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 4: And while that's lovely, is that fair?

141
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 3: Is you know, just the question? I suppose.

142
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, the guy who or the woman who killed her

143
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 4: husband because he was abusing her is still rotting in

144
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 4: a prison in Stockton, Like what's it's just clemency to

145
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 4: me is just a step too far, parole, Okay, I

146
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 4: believe in rehabilitation. I don't think there's going to be

147
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 4: any like I don't think they're going to get out

148
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 4: and murder a bunch of people. I mean, this was

149
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 4: very targeted, it was very specific, right, But it's not

150
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 4: They're going to go on a murdering spree. So I

151
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 4: don't feel like the population is at risk or anything

152
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 4: like that. But like Clemency, I'm not on board with that.

153
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to what you said earlier.

154
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 5: Body though about the back in the day when this

155
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 5: initially happened, it being politically motivated at that point. Well,

156
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 5: now because there was such an uprising because of Ryan Murphy,

157
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 5: because of the doc that.

158
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 1: You know.

159
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 3: I have no knowledge of this, but.

160
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 5: It kind of seems like maybe didn't use think it

161
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 5: was a good look the governor of California at the time,

162
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,239
Speaker 5: and maybe something was very shiny.

163
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 2: Of course, it got so much press, it was very popular,

164
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,960
Speaker 2: It was very everybody was excited before the holidays. Gergs hit,

165
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 2: you know, the Menendez attorney. By the way, his daughter

166
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 2: is also the attorney in the Diddy trial.

167
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 3: Fun fact. Oh, I don't know.

168
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 2: That interesting, right. It's a family affair. So Mark Gergos,

169
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 2: who represents the Menandez brothers. You know, he was very

170
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 2: public about it. They're going to be home for Thanksgiving.

171
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, the Menendez mom and dad have siblings,

172
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 2: and those siblings really do support the release of these

173
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,559
Speaker 2: even despite the fact that they were killed by the

174
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:57,439
Speaker 2: night Boys.

175
00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 3: They do, they do support it.

176
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 5: And guys, I'm actually I'm getting a signal from Adam

177
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 5: that we have a talkback.

178
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 3: Can you love it? Yeah?

179
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,600
Speaker 2: Is this a really official talkback?

180
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 4: Yes?

181
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 3: All right, let's can we hear it.

182
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 6: I just want to say I'm listening all the way

183
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 6: in Pennsylvania and I am so excited to hear you

184
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 6: guys chatting it up tonight on the podcast. I've set

185
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 6: you guys as a preset on my channel and I'll

186
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 6: be listening every single night. Thank you, guys. Have a

187
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 6: great night.

188
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,560
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Well I've been making I've been making

189
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 4: all these social media posts about talkbacks and you know,

190
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,000
Speaker 4: setting us as a preset, so hopefully, hopefully it's making

191
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:38,559
Speaker 4: an impact.

192
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, complain what that process is. Yeah, So this is

193
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,440
Speaker 5: first of all, thank you so much.

194
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 3: That was so lovely.

195
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,719
Speaker 5: But you can always send us a talkback message when

196
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 5: you're listening. Just use the iHeartRadio app and click on

197
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 5: the microphone.

198
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 3: It's the icon in the top right corner.

199
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 5: And you can also set the True Crimes Night podcast

200
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,720
Speaker 5: as a preset so you don't miss any of the show.

201
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 5: So that's just a little microphone up right.

202
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 3: That's so fun.

203
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 2: Everybody, please like jump into this conversation. You know, the

204
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 2: funny thing about the menandas where my brain goes. First

205
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 2: of all, I think if you're in prison for life,

206
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 2: you have to have a moment of acceptance, right, just

207
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 2: to survive it. You know, we're told we've seen Shawshank

208
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 2: redemption right right. I hope rut also the hope of

209
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 2: being able to walk out those doors. I would imagine

210
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 2: the last mile of the marathon is the hardest, not

211
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: that I would know, But it's interesting. They've had a

212
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,439
Speaker 2: lot of love behind bars, you know, Lyle. I think

213
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 2: it's Lyle right. He is again the one that is

214
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 2: currently in his current picture. He's the bald one.

215
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 3: You know.

216
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 2: He's been married, I believe twice, and his second wife

217
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 2: if they were married for like twenty one years, she

218
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 2: became a lawyer, Rebecca, so that she could support him

219
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 2: and honestly like stand by him. And even though they

220
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 2: are no longer together, she's a steadfast supporter. Interesting, that's amazing.

221
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 2: Not conjugal visits, there's zero conjugal visits, but they've you know,

222
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 2: they have a lot of relationships.

223
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 4: Well, speaking of like support, and we were talking about prior.

224
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,199
Speaker 4: We were talking about how the family, even the family

225
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,319
Speaker 4: of the murdered parents, really support them getting out. And

226
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 4: the brother's cousin, Anna Maria Barlot, made a TikTok video

227
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,960
Speaker 4: and it popped up on my for you page because

228
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 4: I'm in that algorithm, and she made a video and

229
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 4: she said, actually, you know, it's disappointing that the parole

230
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,680
Speaker 4: hearing has been moved. It's like five weeks and this

231
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 4: is probably going to be in the most excruciating five

232
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 4: weeks right of you know, they've been in prison for

233
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,199
Speaker 4: a really long time. But she did say that it's

234
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 4: not a she said, I'm gonna quote, this is not

235
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 4: a bad thing. Most people prepare for parole for a year.

236
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 4: The more time that they have to prepare, the better.

237
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,319
Speaker 4: So the family is taking the approach that, yeah, it's

238
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 4: disappointing that we're not going to see them, you know,

239
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 4: in ten days, but in the long run, it's probably

240
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 4: for the best that they have more time to prepare.

241
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 4: You know, the prison guards are all writing letters saying

242
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,679
Speaker 4: what exemplary prisoners they are. You know, they've created all

243
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,840
Speaker 4: these programs inside the prison, Like Courtney was saying, and

244
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,800
Speaker 4: they are really be like the prisoners are really benefiting

245
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 4: from them, like they're taking care of the elderly prisoners,

246
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,080
Speaker 4: and they've really it seems to be that they've really rehabilitated.

247
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 4: And that's wonderful if true, I mean phenomenal of true.

248
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 2: Very lucky together that they've been able to be together

249
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 2: too years.

250
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 3: That's right.

251
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 5: We'll be bringing you up to speed on the Brian

252
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 5: Koberger murder trial when we come back, and we're going

253
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 5: to have a new plea from the victims' families. We're

254
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 5: also going to be discussing the horrific serial killer BTK

255
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 5: later in the show. At eleven, we're talking about today

256
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 5: what happened in the Diddy trial, and we're here from

257
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 5: you True Crime tonight.

258
00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 2: We have so many cases to get through tonight because

259
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,839
Speaker 2: there were there's huge developments in the courtroom today in

260
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,960
Speaker 2: the Diddy case, so we'll we'll talk more about that

261
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 2: later and then now, of course we need to talk

262
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 2: about the Brian Coberger Idaho college murders trial, because again

263
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,480
Speaker 2: there's new developments every single day, it seems, and this

264
00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 2: is really becoming incredibly hard, as you could imagine, insult

265
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,200
Speaker 2: to injury for the families of the victims. Every change,

266
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 2: every delay, it affects the victims' families. So, Courtney, this

267
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 2: is so close to your heart. I know, we make

268
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 2: the podcast together. I'm making the doc now for Peacock

269
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 2: at KT Studios. So take it away.

270
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 5: Where should we start, Well, let's start with the families,

271
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,680
Speaker 5: as you mentioned, because with all of these delays, it

272
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 5: has been excruciating. And that's something that happened today. It

273
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 5: just came out that some of the victims' family members

274
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 5: are launching a go fundme to attend this trial because

275
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 5: the trial venue moved. Everyone is located in a town

276
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 5: called Moscow, Idaho, and it is moving far away and

277
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 5: they need some help to be there.

278
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,760
Speaker 3: Well, they touch pay for everything, hotels. I mean, this

279
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 3: is supposed to be months.

280
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,520
Speaker 4: It could be months, three months, they're expected three months,

281
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 4: and they're going to be out of work, you know.

282
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:16,960
Speaker 4: I mean, this is financially potentially devastating for anyone exactly,

283
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 4: and it really does underscore the importance of or how

284
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 4: much it affects things when trials are moved.

285
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 2: Right, So this was in Moscow, to your point, now

286
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 2: that it's in Boise, you know, some of the family

287
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,880
Speaker 2: members live in Washington, you know, or they're six or

288
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 2: seven hours away, so it's a hotel night. They can't

289
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 2: just commute, and that's such a burden because of course,

290
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 2: if you're a child has been through it, you think

291
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,240
Speaker 2: you don't want to be there in the front row

292
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 2: every single day. That could be really a dead end financially.

293
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 5: So we are very close to this case and obviously

294
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 5: pretty passionate about it for anyone who's not super conversant.

295
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 5: Brian Koberger is a former PhD student in criminology of

296
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 5: all things. He has been accused in is awaiting trial

297
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 5: in the face stabbing of four University of Idaho students.

298
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 5: This happened in November of twenty twenty two. The trial

299
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 5: is slated to be August eleventh, although that may change

300
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 5: yet again.

301
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 3: I think it will. Oh, don't say that. I think

302
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 3: it will. So we stop saying that.

303
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 2: Everybody's stop delete, delete, delete.

304
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 3: I don't think we should be living in denial. Don't forget.

305
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 2: It's also so many things in their school back in session,

306
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 2: and it just affects everybody wants to be there to

307
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 2: support their kids, you know. It's Madison Mogan and Ethan

308
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,680
Speaker 2: Chapin and Kayleie Gonzalvez and Xana Cernudle like they just

309
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 2: become a footnote so quickly. Sorry, I'm getting like I'm

310
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 2: starting to sweat through my shirt already.

311
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 5: Now about this, we're all, yeah, yeah, here's what we know.

312
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 5: Here's what we know right now. Jury selection is slated

313
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 5: to begin July thirtieth, and the trial has taking place

314
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 5: in Ada County at the Ada County.

315
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,560
Speaker 3: Courthouse in Boise.

316
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 5: As you said, Stephanie, and if you guys remember, the

317
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 5: reason that the trial was moved from Moscow, Idaho, where

318
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 5: the victims lived, where the crime happened, was that it

319
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 5: was changed due to concerns about Brian Colberger, the accused,

320
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 5: his ability to get a fair trial there, so hence

321
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 5: the movement. And here's what else we know. As of today,

322
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 5: the jury will not be sequestered, although that's been open

323
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 5: as an option. The trial is expected. I'm very surprised

324
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,840
Speaker 5: by this. To be nationally televised and to run Monday

325
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 5: through Friday for about three months.

326
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 2: I think it's great. I think it's great. It has

327
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 2: to be tell, it has to be televised, just shed

328
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 2: as much light.

329
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what I think. I mean, don't

330
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 3: get me started.

331
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to grandstand, but I think courtroom should

332
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 2: have televisions in them. And I think you don't know

333
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 2: the system until you're observing it. It's so easy to

334
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 2: judge it from the you know, from the sidebar, and

335
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: be like, oh, why did they do that, or the

336
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 2: judge was wrong, or the law enforcement of the wrong thing,

337
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 2: or that one's innocent. Yeah, until you're actually faced with

338
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,479
Speaker 2: the actual information that is granted and given and presented.

339
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 3: That's the process.

340
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's really important for us to see it.

341
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and so so many people have seen so much,

342
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 5: not what has been presented in court, but what has

343
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 5: been presented by the media, including dateline.

344
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 3: Right.

345
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, the date lining is huge and we're going to

346
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:22,880
Speaker 4: get to that. What do you think is coming up

347
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 4: for Brian? Do you think that he's going to get

348
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 4: his continuance granted?

349
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,400
Speaker 5: I tell you what I do. I do think that

350
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 5: they could. Yes, well, because listen, this date line was huge.

351
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 5: It wasn't just oh here is more of what has

352
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,680
Speaker 5: been known publicly. This included people violating the gag order

353
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,360
Speaker 5: in the case. And by people I mean people who

354
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 5: are investigating or the prosecution or someone else on the inside.

355
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 5: We do not know right in this moment who it is.

356
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 5: Anybody it could be. It could be anybody, that's right.

357
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 2: I think we need to know who that person is

358
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 2: because that's a real miscarriage of justice for the families,

359
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 2: of course. And also keep in mind for Brian Coburger,

360
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 2: he claims his innocence. If he's actually sitting behind bars,

361
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 2: rotting away for a crime he didn't commit and he's

362
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 2: being targeted as he claims he is, then you know,

363
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 2: again like get the boy home and really minds who

364
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 2: actually did it?

365
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:17,640
Speaker 4: Right?

366
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: So listen, If he did this, then he is in

367
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 2: fact the.

368
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:21,479
Speaker 3: Real life Dexter.

369
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 2: And I just wait a minute, come, Well, though Dexter killed,

370
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,000
Speaker 2: Dexter killed bad people.

371
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 3: These were like angels, you know. I know, I don't

372
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 3: mean that.

373
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: I just the Dexter connection is more of like a

374
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 2: man in plain sights who's educated and has means and

375
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 2: could do many things with his life, and in fact

376
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 2: was supposed to become, you know, a PhD in criminology

377
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: and all these wonderful things ahead. How would you waste

378
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 2: it on something so destructive? I guess that's why we're

379
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 2: all so interested and curious about this case.

380
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 3: Right, that's right?

381
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 5: And you know you say he has the makings of

382
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 5: a great life or had and who am I?

383
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 3: Who knows right? And who knows?

384
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 5: The trial has not happened, but it seems like a

385
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 5: lot of what he was spending his time on, if

386
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 5: we believe is true, what was presented in dateline, and

387
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 5: they're pretty unimpeachable.

388
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:12,679
Speaker 1: You know.

389
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 5: He also spent a lot of time kind of creepily

390
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 5: taking screenshots of female students that were around, including some

391
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 5: who are friends of the murdered students.

392
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: Which is jaw dropping because up until now, up until

393
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 2: this leak, there really hasn't been a known connection between

394
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,160
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger, the accused, and the victims. Just as a reminder,

395
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 2: the four victims all lived together with two additional roommates

396
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 2: who think God survived and you know, they were taken

397
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: in one night, major overkill, but there doesn't seem to

398
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 2: be a known friendship, or it's on an ex, there's

399
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 2: no insurance claim. It's not revenge. You know, it seems

400
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: sort of like a thrill kill, which is why this

401
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 2: case is so incredibly scary, because you know, this could

402
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 2: be the guy sitting next to you at the airport, right,

403
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 2: he's just like sheep in wolf's clothing. He doesn't look

404
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: like he's, you know, coming out of a scary movie,

405
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 2: and he's just ridinary.

406
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 4: Can I can I talk about something that maybe people

407
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: who don't follow this as closely as we do maybe

408
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 4: don't know. So we've talked about this last night, but

409
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 4: I've timelined the dateline leaks, so I listen. I watched

410
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 4: the date Line show twelve times.

411
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 3: I love that about you so much, and I.

412
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 4: Made a spreadsheet of all the weeks we should play

413
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 4: lotto together, we should and I timelined all the leaks,

414
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 4: and you know the date and what it was, and

415
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 4: there were there's thirty seven. There were thirty five that

416
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 4: I missed to Oh my gosh. So there's thirty seven

417
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 4: different line items and the first one is on July ninth,

418
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 4: he went to this pool party at the grove right. Well,

419
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 4: if you don't follow the case very closely, you might

420
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 4: not realize July ninth is also the same day he

421
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 4: showed up within range of that home in Moscow on

422
00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 4: King Road.

423
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 3: So where does the brain go with that?

424
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: So, like my brain go pick at that thread for

425
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: a second, because that is a really big ticket item

426
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: that can be kind of imagined a few different ways.

427
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 4: Right, So I kind of think that either one of

428
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 4: the girls was there at the pool party, or they

429
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 4: dropped somebody off or picked somebody up and he followed them.

430
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I think too. You know, listen, it's

431
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 2: that scary tale. If in fact this is accurate, this

432
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 2: is the person that's like lurking in the street light

433
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: watching the party go.

434
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that real quick.

435
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 4: I think there's I think there's some things that maybe

436
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 4: we can say we don't know that are true about

437
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 4: the dateline episode. But one thing that we can say

438
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 4: that we kind of believe is true is this pool party.

439
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 3: Because there's witnesses that we've interviewed your interview.

440
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, great, So there's many witnesses. There wasn't just

441
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 4: like one person. There were many witnesses that talked to

442
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 4: him there. One girl gave him her number, her number,

443
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 4: so he was absolutely so for sure that happened.

444
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 5: Right, And even if none of the victims were there

445
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 5: in any capacity dropping someone off, it honestly could have

446
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 5: been as easy as he met someone. It has been

447
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 5: proven he was at that party by you know, many

448
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 5: people who've spoken about it. He could have gotten an

449
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 5: instagram from someone and then quickly found Really any one

450
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 5: of the victims. I'm not pretending to be inside of

451
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger's or anyone else's brain, but something clicked in

452
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 5: and around that time that really seemed like it was

453
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 5: a fixation because the cell records that were revealed in

454
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 5: the State Line special it showed that he was within

455
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: just one hundred meters of the victim's house twenty three

456
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 5: times in just the few months from July and then

457
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 5: ending in November. The murders and this house. It was

458
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 5: not next to sort of a Walmart or any place.

459
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 5: It was not a big street. It was a whole decide.

460
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: You have to be very intentional, and look, this case

461
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: also is just like you know, this is a cautionary

462
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 2: tale right to all of us, because.

463
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 3: It was a party house.

464
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: It was like a social house, and like every one

465
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: of us, we go and post things online and in

466
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: the background you can see the windows and the doors

467
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: and the license plate in the lock, and sometimes our

468
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: social media becomes a blueprint. And I think that's a

469
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: bit of a takeaway because it does seem like there

470
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: might be stranger danger.

471
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 4: You know, and as somebody who has done that kind

472
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: of thing on social media to find people, I would

473
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 4: absolutely be very careful about your privacy settings things like that.

474
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 4: And listen, this is definitely not a victim blame thing

475
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 4: I want course of course, you know, I absolutely I'm

476
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 4: a girls girl, you know, I want women to be

477
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 4: protected and will not just be really careful about things

478
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 4: that you're posting online. We're gonna be back. We're gonna

479
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 4: be talking about another alleged killer, maybe that has a

480
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 4: connection to Brian Coberger t K.

481
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't get enough at BTK right.

482
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: And later in the show at eleven, we're gonna be

483
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 4: talking about a Georgia man's wife who was murdered. Well

484
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 4: now he's getting charged with it. Stick with us here

485
00:23:52,440 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 4: True Crime tonight.

486
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: We have a lot to get to tonight. Still the

487
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: Diddy trial there was a big eruption in court today,

488
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: and then also the Madison McCain she is potentially we

489
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: might potentially solve this.

490
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 3: I'm left out of my seat when I saw the headline.

491
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: I kind of can't believe it. I mean, it's been

492
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: so many years in the making. So if you haven't

493
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: been following the Madeline McCain story, you know, more on

494
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 2: that to come. Yeah, you know, but first we want

495
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: to kind of dig into a case that has some

496
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: crossover to the Brian Coburger case that we were just

497
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: covering in the last act bt K, which stands for

498
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: Buying Torture Kill, arguably the scariest of all the serial

499
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: killers of all time. Body, I know this is a

500
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: personal expertise area for you.

501
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: So do you want to get us started? Yeah?

502
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 4: So, yeah, like you said, we want to talk about

503
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: this because you know, we were just talking about Brian

504
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 4: Kolberger and if you know me, I eat, sleep, and breathe, Idaho,

505
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 4: Like I'm constantly thinking about it and whatnot. And you know,

506
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 4: in watching the Dateline episode that we just talked about

507
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 4: in the last segment, we learned that through the date

508
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 4: Line leaks that Brian Coberger was kind of like obsessively

509
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 4: looking for things of like Ted Bundy, right, And there's

510
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: been a lot of talk about the crossover between Ted

511
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 4: Bundy and Brian Coberger, specifically you know, the kyomega and

512
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 4: the Brian Coberger might have attacked his victims because they

513
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 4: were in their sorority, you know all that. Well, there's

514
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 4: also connections to well, we think that there's connections to

515
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 4: BTK as well, and specifically one of them being that

516
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: Brian Coberger's professor at the Sales is Katherine Ramsland, who,

517
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 4: by the way, had a close relationship with BTK, whose

518
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 4: real name is Dennis Raider. She basically wrote the book

519
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 4: on BTK, like Ter Turely wrote the book on BTK.

520
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 4: And so Brian Coberger had a relationship, of course with

521
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 4: Catherine because she was his professor, and he spent quite

522
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: a bit of time with her, and I would I'm

523
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: imagining and I don't know, but I'm imagining he probably

524
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 4: asked her tons of questions about people like BTK. Additionally,

525
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: btk's first victims were four people, and you know, there's

526
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 4: been a lot of talk and a lot of chatter

527
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 4: about how could somebody doing something like this kill four

528
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 4: people very quickly? And I always say BTK like.

529
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: That is that? That is the answer. That is the

530
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: answer usual.

531
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: It's very go from zero to you know, sixties And

532
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: I'm not saying this to be glib, but to go

533
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: from a regular, you know, pedestrian, regular person to killing

534
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: four people in one night and then having enough emotional

535
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: regulation to go back to your daily life the next day.

536
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 2: That's rare, Right is the answer, But there's not any

537
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: other examples.

538
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 4: I don't know if he is the answer. It's just

539
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: like theory and chatter. Right, well, it's an example.

540
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: If right, it is an example.

541
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 4: So well we think, right, there's a lot of murders

542
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 4: out there that have been maybe BTK has been suspected of,

543
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 4: but not you know, convicted of. He's he basically has

544
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: been convicted of ten murders from nineteen seventy four to

545
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety one. I mean, this was decades long, and

546
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 4: there were times when BTK took you know, there's a

547
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 4: cooling off period for serial killers.

548
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: Right.

549
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 4: A serial killer, if you don't know, LA find is

550
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 4: defined as somebody that kills three or more people and

551
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 4: they have a period of cooling off in between those murders. Okay,

552
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 4: And so basically the idea is is that they get

553
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 4: an urge, they satisfy that urge, and it's you know,

554
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: it's satiated for a little while, and then they have

555
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: the urge again and they need to you know, recommit

556
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: those murders. They need to recommit that act to feel

557
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 4: satiated again. So that's basically what a serial killer is. Well,

558
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: BTK had cooling off periods spanning years. And if you

559
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 4: don't know anything about bt I'm gonna tell you just

560
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 4: a little bit about it. He basically was taunting, basically

561
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 4: taunting Kansas with these murders. He would write letters to

562
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: the media, he would write letters to the cops, and

563
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 4: you would say things like, if you don't publish this,

564
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to kill again. And of course, you know,

565
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: the media is wrangling with what to do, like if

566
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 4: because if they published this, they're basically granting this killer's

567
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 4: wishes and nobody wants to do that. But if they don't,

568
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: now they're potentially responsible for you know, Becky down the

569
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 4: street getting murdered.

570
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: Oh man, what a quandary.

571
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 5: And what I think is absolutely the most terrifying is

572
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 5: what Dennis Rader was doing during those times, because he

573
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 5: seemed like anyone you would have at your back backyard

574
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 5: barbecue or who'd oh yeah he would your kids.

575
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was a great dad. He was like a

576
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: family man. Yeah he was.

577
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 4: He was a boy scout leader. I mean he was

578
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: he was literally the epitome of the American Dad. I mean,

579
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's terrifying. I wanted to talk to

580
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 4: you guys a little bit more about some of the similarities.

581
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: If that's okay, let's we have between btc's my favorite topic,

582
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: dialis in coach dialis well. And you know what, if

583
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 4: you guys, if you guys out there who know of

584
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 4: any more that we missed, give us a call eight

585
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 4: eight eight thirty one crime.

586
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: I want to talk to you. Listen.

587
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: I could talk to you guys about this all the time.

588
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: I want to hear for you. Yeah.

589
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 4: So both BTK, BTK and Brian Coberger studied in the

590
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: criminal field.

591
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: Did you guys know that?

592
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 4: So we know Brian Coberger was going first PhD in criminology.

593
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 4: But Raider, did you guys know Dennis Rayder BTK had

594
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: an associates degree in criminal justice?

595
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: Crazy? Right?

596
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 5: Well, you know we actually and then I want you

597
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 5: to continue because this is not knowledge that everyone carries

598
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 5: in their heads. But Stephanie and I in doing the

599
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 5: in doing the Idaho Massacre podcast, we actually spoke to

600
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 5: an expert named Scott bond Oh. I love him and

601
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 5: he has actually incredible insights on b GK and Coburger

602
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 5: as well.

603
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: We should have him on, but he'd be great.

604
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 5: But now you need to set the table and walk

605
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 5: us through the similar Okay, yes.

606
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: Well now I feel like imposter syndrome. After you guys

607
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: talked to Scott Bonders, I mean.

608
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: It's all down from here, right yeah. Yeah.

609
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 4: Well, and both both seeming, you know, had very normal lives,

610
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 4: right they, like we said, Dennis Rader was you know,

611
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: American dad, and Brian Coberger was like this really studious

612
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: guy who for the most part, from what we understand,

613
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 4: kind of was hard but kept to himself. You know,

614
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: he was seemingly a law abiding citizen. He was quiet,

615
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: he was intelligent, He was a teaching assistant. While he

616
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: was committing you know.

617
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: This murder. He was alleged.

618
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: Okay, listen, you're right allegedly he has been. He has

619
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 4: not been convicted of this. In my mind he has,

620
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: but not in reality. I mean, you know, but both

621
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: were perceived as being kind of socially awkward and public.

622
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: I mean, and listen, that is not for me. That

623
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: is not like a bad thing. I'm super socially awkward,

624
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 4: Like people come up to me I'm like, oh, you know, so,

625
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: I mean I get it. Both and again I said

626
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: this before, but both allegedly killed four people during their

627
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: first murder first time.

628
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then went back to their regular lives, which

629
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: is I guess why we're all so crazy about serial killers?

630
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: How does that happen?

631
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 4: How does And that's the thing, like I kind of

632
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: needed to listen. I needed to like do some like

633
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 4: self reflection and figure out why I'm so interested in

634
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 4: the subject. And I learned this is kind of interesting

635
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: for everyone. I think women specifically, right, like you would

636
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: a crime con. It's women everywhere. There's hardly any men

637
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 4: are men and it's kind of rare, right you've seen yeah,

638
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 4: all women. Well, it's it's an evolutional thing. It's like, so,

639
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 4: as women, we need to know what are what is

640
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: dangerous for us, of course, and that's why typically women

641
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 4: are fascinated by this and maybe and maybe that's why.

642
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: Maybe that's one reason I'm interested in it. But I

643
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 4: just thought that was kind of an interesting little little tidbit.

644
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, BTK and Brian Coberger definitely have a connection.

645
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: Dateline didn't have any information to share with us, you know,

646
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 4: in the program about you know, Brian Coberger searching for

647
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: BTK things. But here's what I think. Maybe he didn't

648
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: have to because he learned all he needed to from

649
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 4: his professor.

650
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: Okay, but.

651
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: Now that advocate literally Devil's advocate. Just you know, again,

652
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: my personal feelings do not count in this. I'm just

653
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: grateful not to be a juror on this death sentence

654
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: trial where the death sentence is by firing squad. Just FYI,

655
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: he's studying criminology, So is it that far fetched? I mean,

656
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: we all work in crime. Like if you looked at

657
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: any of our search engines, like please, it looks like

658
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: complete you know, everything we've talked about tonight where track

659
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: is really weird if taken out of context. Right, So

660
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: if I'm doing, you know, searches on BTK, what does

661
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: that say? So I just feel like he was a

662
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: criminology PhD student. Why would he not have ted Bundy

663
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: in his you know, Google search or why would he

664
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: not have been studying BTK when his professor, you know,

665
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: is the person?

666
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: So I get it.

667
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: It's it's not a great look the optics or certainly

668
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: very creepy. But on the other side of that is

669
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: does that make him a perfect target.

670
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he is.

671
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 4: No, I'm one hundred percent in agreees with you. When

672
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 4: I saw the dateline leaks, I was like, Okay, that's

673
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 4: not for me. The Ted, the searching for Ted Bundy

674
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 4: and watching you know, YouTube channels about Ted Bundy was

675
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 4: not a red flag for me. In my timeline that

676
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 4: I made of all the dateline leaks, I had put

677
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: like little flags, like literally little red flags, and those

678
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 4: Google searches did not now listen.

679
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: The drugged porn, the drug porn.

680
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 4: Now listen, and that that's another connection to BTK. BTK

681
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 4: liked subdued and helpless women.

682
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: That were drugged.

683
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brian Coberger allegedly, according to the League, was also

684
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: searching for pornography with people.

685
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 3: Who were drugged.

686
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: Right, we'd really love to hear from you, So call

687
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: us at eight eight eight three to one Crime and

688
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: again just jump in on the conversation because that's the

689
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: whole point of this is, we really do want to

690
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: hear from you, and then listen. Later in the show,

691
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: we're also going to be talking about Diddy. Also, the

692
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: new developments in the Madeline McCain trial. It's being reopened

693
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: this case is actually being reopened once and for all.

694
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: And Courtney, where would you like to take this?

695
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 5: I think on the Madeline McCain because that really just

696
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 5: seeing that little girl's picture, it really invigorated my heart.

697
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 5: People may remember this was eighteen years ago and a British,

698
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 5: a lovely British family was on vacation in Portugal with

699
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 5: their toddler who went missing and was never found and

700
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 5: there has been pictures and.

701
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 3: Pictures of her over the year.

702
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 5: Well, just today a new search was announced and police

703
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 5: are back at it. It hasn't been said exactly what

704
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 5: started them to do the search, but there were about

705
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 5: twenty five investigators who were focusing on an area around

706
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 5: the cottage that was once used by the main suspect,

707
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 5: a German Man named Christian Bruckner. So there's that he's

708
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 5: been in the mix for a while now, yes, exactly,

709
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 5: and this you know, we'll be focusing a lot more

710
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 5: on this, but we do know. Again, twenty five investigators.

711
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 5: I think they're slated to be there for five days

712
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 5: or something, and they have they have equipment that goes

713
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 5: way down into the ground, so they're searching around sort

714
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 5: of wells and other underground infrastructure of where he lived.

715
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: Body, I feel like you had some development and interesting

716
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: developments about you know, some dog or something in the backyard, right, oh.

717
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: Always remembering.

718
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, So in two thousand and sixty, so Christian has

719
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 4: been a suspect. You losen your But he lived in

720
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: Portugal as well, in the Algarves where they were on vacation,

721
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 4: and he was kind of like a maintenance guy and

722
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 4: he lived he kind of couchsurfed and he lived in

723
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 4: a camper at times, and he lived in this cottage,

724
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 4: like Courtney was saying, well, back in Germany, they you know,

725
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 4: they were suspecting him because he got basically kind of

726
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 4: confessed to an informant that is, their identities protected. And

727
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 4: when they got the search warrant and went to the home,

728
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: of course, they were searching everything and they found a

729
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: hard drive buried underneath his pet dog where he buried

730
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 4: his dog. And this hard drive was full of really

731
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 4: really damning evidence. There was a Skype chat log where

732
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 4: he said he wanted to basically kidnap a little girl

733
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: and spend some time with her.

734
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 3: And there was.

735
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: Also evidence on this hard drive that led investigators to

736
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 4: believe that Madeline McCann has passed. Now they haven't told

737
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 4: us what that is. We don't know what that evidence is.

738
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 4: This parents, Yeah, and you know those parents were blamed.

739
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 4: They were blamed and they were vilified, villified, and you know,

740
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 4: go listen, that's part of the process, right your child

741
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 4: goes missing, your you know, spouse is you know, murdered.

742
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: Of course you're a suspect. But they really went through it.

743
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 4: And also the siblings. She was in the same room

744
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 4: with her siblings or brother and his sister when she

745
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 4: went missing, So how harrowing that must be for.

746
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: Them in the years thereafter.

747
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: We're going to be following this for a while obviously

748
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: because this is a case that will be evolving, so

749
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: definitely we'll keep you posted as things, you know, pop up,

750
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: and you know, listen, we want to talk about the

751
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: Ditty case also later in the show, because there was

752
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: Gangbusters today in the trial against Diddy, and also we're

753
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 2: going to start our very first official missing person's case also,

754
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: so maybe this can actually lead to something positive. So

755
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: more on that to come. If you'd like to call

756
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: us eight eight eight three to one Crime. This is

757
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight, where we talk true crime all the time,

758
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: we're going to be looking at the Shenanigans happening today

759
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: in the courtroom again with Diddy.

760
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: So before we.

761
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: Get to that, we actually have several calls that seem

762
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: to be blowing up right now.

763
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: So Court, do you want to go to our first caller.

764
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: I'd love to.

765
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 5: We have Jessica on the line, I believe, asking about

766
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 5: Brian Colberger.

767
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 3: Jessica, Hi, Jessica, hie.

768
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 7: Thanks for so much for having me.

769
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: Of course, we're so happy you're here.

770
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 7: So my question is, for everything that's public right now

771
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 7: as far as evidence, what do you guys think is

772
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 7: the most compelling and also, on the contrary, the least

773
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 7: compelling for evidence right now?

774
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: Oh?

775
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 3: Great, great question.

776
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is court Courtney. Excuse me. Okay, I have

777
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 5: two words for my most compelling and that is knife sheath.

778
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: Mine is similar.

779
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: And again I'm the sucker of the group and I

780
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 2: feel like I'm pretty goible. So I've been holding out

781
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: for a really long time. The fact that he has

782
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: a record of purchasing that very specific knife that you know,

783
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: it's not a common knife that you just buy for

784
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: the fun of it. You're not making stakes at home.

785
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: So if in fact, this is accurate, and there was

786
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: a search and he actually purchased that, you know, that knife,

787
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: That to me is very problematic.

788
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 3: Outside of that.

789
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: I think everything else can really be explained away with

790
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 2: a great lawyer, and that I think we'll see Ann

791
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: Taylor get to.

792
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say also me as well as probably

793
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 4: the knife sheath and the DNA that's on the nice

794
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 4: sheet specifically. That's why I think the knife sheath is

795
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 4: so compelling. The least compelling evidence, in my opinion, is

796
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 4: probably the visits to the house, the twenty three visits

797
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 4: to the house, because I think it's reasonable to say

798
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 4: as a defense attorney like he was actually just set

799
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 4: the coffee shop which is within distance of that or whatever,

800
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: you know, they would say. But that's probably what I

801
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: would say is the least compelling and the most compelling, you.

802
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: Know, and to that point, you know, we kind of

803
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: went down this rabbit hole a little bit. Also, like,

804
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: for example, if I order Uber or uber eats, it

805
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: seems to show right up right. It's like, oh my god,

806
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: Uber eats is under my desk right now. It seems

807
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: like you can track it on your phone so closely.

808
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: And a lot of this you know, cell phone stuff

809
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 2: is really showing a bit of an orbit, right, it's

810
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: a radius, it's not necessarily as exact, and I think

811
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: I think that's going to get really dissected in the courtroom,

812
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 2: and frankly should.

813
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: And I have my lease this is Courtney again, Jessica.

814
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 5: My least compelling and I'm probably about to get backlash

815
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 5: is what appeared on dateline. And that's the porn searches. Oh,

816
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 5: Brian Coburgers, and people have a lot to say about

817
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 5: that body, I know you specifically do.

818
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's pretty compelling.

819
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: It's pretty compelling that he was seeking out pornography where

820
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: the participants were being drugged.

821
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: You know that.

822
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: I don't think that's as you know, I don't. Maybe

823
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: I'm I also am the most darkiest person. I guess

824
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: it seems sort of not maybe I'm too vanilla, but

825
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 2: that seems that seems kind of dangerous.

826
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, thank you, Jessica. We really appreciate you calling in.

827
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: Hopefully we answered your question. We have another caller, hy Jessica.

828
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: We have Indie Hided.

829
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: Hello, best name ever.

830
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 8: Thank you than what you guys doing?

831
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for joining us. What's your question?

832
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I had it's almost a two parters. So recently,

833
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 8: Judge Hitler was in a hearing and he brought up,

834
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 8: you know, bringing in the knife for the trial. Now,

835
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 8: with that being said, there was a lot of rumors

836
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 8: going around, you know, did they find the knife? Did

837
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 8: they not find the knife? And so the second part is,

838
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 8: even if even if they did find the knife, do

839
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 8: you think that it would be a stronger case just

840
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 8: because the case against Brian Coberger right now is so

841
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 8: strong so much.

842
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 4: I've been thinking about that a lot. It's a great question.

843
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 4: And yeah, that's a really good question. I've been thinking

844
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 4: about this a lot because we do kind of think

845
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 4: that it's possible they found the knife, and I think

846
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 4: it could be important, but it also could not if

847
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 4: I think it really depends on how they found it. Right, So,

848
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 4: if they found the knife because of they were retracing

849
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 4: Brian Coberger steps through forensic analysis of his phone, let's say,

850
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 4: or they have him on surveillance and you know they

851
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 4: followed him and that's how they found the knife, then

852
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be incredibly damning, right, like

853
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: you led us to the weapon. However, if they just

854
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 4: found the knife, like by chance, like maybe dredging the river,

855
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 4: let's say, or you know, somebody found a burn pile

856
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 4: somewhere and they find the knife. I think the knife

857
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 4: would be clean, right, Like, I don't think there's going

858
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: to be a lot of forensic evidence on it, and

859
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 4: then I don't think it would be compelling. So I

860
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 4: think it's really going to depend on how they found it.

861
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: But like, why why would he if he's such a

862
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: smarty pants and he's a PhD student and he's studying criminology,

863
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: why is he being so sloppy? I mean even I

864
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: know and I watch law in order to you know,

865
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: your cell phone is a tracker. You know, like leave

866
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: your phone at home if you're going to go and

867
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: do something. You know the basics.

868
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you're right, I mean you have to be

869
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 4: an idiot, right, But remember what Cheryl McCullum said, who

870
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: is the forensic and you know, an expert in forensics?

871
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 4: She said, just because you have a cookbook and you

872
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 4: can read a cookbook, doesn't mean you know how to cook.

873
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: Once you're doing something and you're like panicked and you're

874
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 4: adrenalinees going and you know, common sense goes out the window, right, yes,

875
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 4: remember falling in love and how that feeling is and

876
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 4: you lose all common sense.

877
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: I've done it.

878
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 4: Yes, you know, I feel like that's probably the feeling

879
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 4: that these people get from committing these acts, euphoria that

880
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 4: makes you insane.

881
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 3: So true, Indy, that was such a great question.

882
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us, and please call

883
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: back again this four Who are a piece that Indy

884
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: was asking about, or you know that we were just

885
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: talking about. You know, we had interviewed several people, but

886
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 2: one person in particular on the podcast that was a

887
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: former student of his that said that he appeared much

888
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: happier after the after the killings than he was before,

889
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: meaning as a as a teacher, he was always redlining

890
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: things and was sort of kind of difficult and seemed

891
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: to be a little air quotes grumpy. And then in

892
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: the days after the murders, everything was much more high fives,

893
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: and you know, she was getting better grades and he

894
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: still graded everything and there were still red lines everywhere,

895
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: but it was all very happy. And that can be

896
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: interpreted as two ways. Either that's an endorphins release and

897
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: he's genuinely happier after such a terrible event, or it

898
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: was just myals, and you know that was something that

899
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: is just either circumstantial or really compelling.

900
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty accurate what happens in the trial.

901
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: Speaking of trials, Stephanie, I think you were pretty excited

902
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 5: about what's doing with Ditty in his trial.

903
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like the Didy trial every single day

904
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: is frankly unbelievable because you know, today his former you know,

905
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: it wasn't the security guard for Ditty. It was at

906
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 2: the Intercontinental Hotel where we've seen this video that CNN

907
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: released of Ditty and his now ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura.

908
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: She was allegedly, you know, trying to escape him from

909
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: a hotel room and she was like at the if

910
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: you haven't seen this video, you know, we'll put it

911
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 2: in our social you know, it's it's harrowing and trigger

912
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: alert please. But she's basically trying to, you know, get

913
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 2: in the elevator. She's like pushing the door and trying

914
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: to escape, and then Didy rolls around the corner, you know,

915
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: holding a towel with one hand and then just.

916
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 3: Beats her up.

917
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: And we're finding out now that that footage never saw

918
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: the light of day because Diddy paid off security to

919
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: make that go away. So fifty thousand dollars and that's

920
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: why this whoop disappeared. And this first of all, this

921
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: man who took the stand gets immunity, and that bums

922
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: me out a little bit too, because it's so gross.

923
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: You know, you know somebody is being victimized. You know,

924
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: this woman's life is in danger, and here you are

925
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: taking fifty thousand dollars for it.

926
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 3: You know.

927
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: Thankfully now he's come forward, but it's pretty explosive testimony

928
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: because again it speaks to the fact that the system

929
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: was rigged against her. Everyone's saying, oh, she was consenting

930
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 2: and it was a consensual relationship. What was she supposed

931
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: to do? There's no place to go. The cops are

932
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: being bought off, security is being bought off, the bodyguards

933
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: are managing your time allegedly, there's a tracker in your car.

934
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 2: Your parents are being threatened. Their lives and their livelihoods

935
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: are being threatened. Your music career is out the window.

936
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 2: All of your friends in your circle are also being threatened.

937
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: What would people perfer for she do? And I honestly

938
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: want an answer for that. I would love to hear

939
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: from from you guys too.

940
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: Tell us.

941
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: What in this situation? What is somebody supposed to do?

942
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 2: How do you get out? And how is that ever

943
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: consensual when there isn't really an option?

944
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:15,439
Speaker 4: Right?

945
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 5: Ut and free aspect being controlled in your life and

946
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 5: your family's lives and your professional life.

947
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't trust anybody. Yeah, it's well, this child,

948
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 3: well they isolate them on purpose.

949
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: Well that's a cycle, you know. Listen, this is like,

950
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 2: you know, the story as old as time. Right, let's

951
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: isolate and then you know, control their environment and suddenly

952
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: you know you're embarrassed. So you don't really want to

953
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: hang with your friends anymore because you don't want to

954
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: be so vulnerable to let them know that this person

955
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: that everybody admires so much and likes so much is

956
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: actually a real monster. And that's very common, you know.

957
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: So you know, we hear this very very often, where

958
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: you know, victims get in over their heads and they

959
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: have compassion for their abuser. They just want the abuse

960
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: to stop.

961
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 7: Right.

962
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 2: So in a case like this, knowing that she could

963
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: have been helped a long time ago, and I'm sure

964
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: there's plenty of other tapes just like it, right, this

965
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: is all very choreographed and if everybody that he's paying

966
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: and is on her payroll is like, how do you

967
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 2: get out of that alive?

968
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 3: And thank god she did.

969
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: I think it's very poetic that Casey. You know, Cassie

970
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 2: Ventura had a baby. She gave birth to a son,

971
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 2: you know, thankfully healthy and all is well. Reports say,

972
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: you know, there is something sort of like a Greek

973
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: tragedy about, you know, giving birth to your very first son,

974
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 2: while you know, just before that on the stand, putting

975
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: away you know, potentially for life, you know, who was

976
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: once your love of your life.

977
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: So complicated stuff.

978
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, it certainly is. But I mean that trial, the

979
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 5: Didy trial, do we know, I'm not sure of this.

980
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 5: Do we know how long it's expected to continue?

981
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 3: Has that been talked about?

982
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it's never ending because you know,

983
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 2: and listen, it's so divided, right, But it does seem

984
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: like they're very slowly being able to prove some of

985
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: this racketeering like we were learning about last night. It

986
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: does seem like there was a system, a ring of

987
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 2: sorts that was built in granted also drug fueled. Can

988
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: you imagine, and let's remember this is Cassie was nineteen

989
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: years old when she met him. Can you imagine you're

990
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: rolling in, You're invited to go to a fancy celebrities,

991
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: white party, and.

992
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,959
Speaker 3: It's all so hobnobby.

993
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: He was like the face of black excellence, and you know,

994
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: all those wonderful things you get swept up into this.

995
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: He's seventeen years older and holds all the purse strings.

996
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 2: So you know, Frankly, my heart goes out to everybody

997
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: who's had to testify. It's really putting your life on

998
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: the line.

999
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 4: Did you hear about the guy standing outside the courthouse

1000
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: exposing me as real identity? Yeah?

1001
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 3: I mean that's terrible. It's disgusting. It's disgusting.

1002
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 4: He had a sign or something, and her real name

1003
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: is like putting her in danger. Disgusting, Like if Diddy

1004
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 4: is really like in charge of this big ring, this

1005
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 4: rico racketeering ring, there's people out there who could find

1006
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 4: Mia based on that and hurt her exactly exactly.

1007
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 3: Her danger upon danger. Courtney, does Georgia Killer tell.

1008
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 5: Us Yes, Okay, so this happened just a couple of

1009
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 5: days ago. After almost twenty years, two decades, this man

1010
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 5: was living as a freeman, most of it in Costa Rica.

1011
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 5: Fifty eight year old John Whirrel was charged with the

1012
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 5: murder of his wife, Doris, and that happened back in

1013
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 5: two thousand and six.

1014
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: So wait, so he kills his wife in two thousand

1015
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: and six and he's accused and was inhausted.

1016
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 5: No, he allegedly, but he has been arrested, but it was.

1017
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 5: It's been an ongoing investigation for all of this time.

1018
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 5: And John, we do know. We don't know if he

1019
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 5: was murdered if excuse me, if he were murdered his wife,

1020
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 5: but he's been arrested. But we do know that twenty

1021
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 5: years ago he left Georgia and moved to Costa Rica

1022
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 5: with his three children and his former live in nanny.

1023
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 2: Oh Deaula, Oh boy, Paula. I mean, Paula, how could

1024
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 2: you do this to a woman.

1025
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 3: The nanny? It's I mean, it's just a it's like

1026
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 3: a cliche.

1027
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 9: I know.

1028
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: Goodness, I feel like, Costa Rica, can we just throw

1029
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 2: away the care?

1030
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 4: Isn't that a red flag? I mean immediately to law enforcement?

1031
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 4: Like for real, I mean, you can't get convicted for

1032
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 4: running away with your nanny. It's got to be a

1033
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 4: red flag, right.

1034
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 5: But listen, these Georgia investigators went far and above. Once

1035
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 5: they did learn that Paula, the former nanny, was living

1036
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 5: in Costa Rica, body, they did say that's a red flag.

1037
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 5: They did, and yes, and they traveled all the way

1038
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 5: to Costa Rica to question Paula and she did operate.

1039
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 5: So with the information provided by Paula when they went

1040
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 5: down there to go see her, along with some information

1041
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 5: the local police had, it was finally finally enough to

1042
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 5: arrest and charge Dennis.

1043
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: And excuse me him and John whirl so poor Dennis.

1044
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 2: So John gets arrested. Was he arrested in Costa Rica

1045
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: or extra diited? No, he was, Actually it's neither, And

1046
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: that's a great question. He had happened to move back

1047
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: to Mississippi and then he was extradited to Georgia. But

1048
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: this whole thing, what I think is so beautiful to

1049
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: celebrate is didn't you say you had good news? This

1050
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 2: this is your good news.

1051
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 5: No, hold on, hold on, that wasn't very very, very

1052
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 5: very happy.

1053
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 3: It's cap full.

1054
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 5: But listen, this whole thing, this arrest happened because of

1055
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 5: a collaboration between the Mississippi and the Georgia police departments

1056
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 5: and a shout out certain officers Sheriff Fred Cole and

1057
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 5: Special Agent Jason C. Christ I believe is how it's pronounced.

1058
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 3: I believe.

1059
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 5: But they never gave up hope in this case, and

1060
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 5: they've actually written about that fact, and they're they're holding

1061
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 5: this as a success story to give hope to people

1062
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 5: who are waiting for answers on what may seem like

1063
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 5: an apparently cold case. And they want to emphasize that

1064
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 5: investigators are never investigations are never truly over till it's okay.

1065
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 2: That is, it does take a really great cop though,

1066
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: right law enforcement that really, you know, they're so busy,

1067
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: there's problems happening every second of every day, to go

1068
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 2: back in time for decades to continue to look for

1069
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: someone or solve something. I mean, those resources are limited.

1070
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: We see this, we know this, right, So that really

1071
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: is that is actually ah, I love the message of hope. Yeah,

1072
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 2: I think that is so important.

1073
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 5: Absolutely and in body. I'm curious if you had your

1074
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 5: this experience, but I can speak for Stephanie and I

1075
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 5: over the years of doing a lot of interviews in

1076
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 5: producing crime, true crime documentaries and all of our podcasts,

1077
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 5: almost every single investigator, if you ask them, they have

1078
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 5: quote that case, the case they can't let go of,

1079
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 5: the case they won't let go of. You know, the

1080
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 5: picture of a victim that sits on their desk.

1081
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 4: So it sounds very cliche, but it's actually true, right,

1082
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 4: like it actually does happen. And I think those cops

1083
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 4: deserve more shout outs. I mean, they go above and

1084
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 4: beyond their paycheck, right They think about it when they

1085
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 4: go home and they're getting dressed and they're eating dinner

1086
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 4: with their family, They're thinking about that victim.

1087
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 3: And I've talked to cops.

1088
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 4: I don't really talk to families all that much, but

1089
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 4: I've talked many many cops, and there's so many of

1090
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 4: them that feel that way. These detectives live and breathe

1091
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 4: to get justice for these victims, and hats off to them.

1092
00:54:58,719 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 3: That's right.

1093
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 5: So the GBI, which is the Georgia Bureau of Investigation,

1094
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 5: they're encouraging people who have any tips on this case

1095
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 5: to call into nine one two three eight nine forty

1096
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 5: one oh three. Body, What do people need to know

1097
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 5: about the Thailand All Murders documentary?

1098
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to set the scene. Set the scene.

1099
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 4: Baby, can close your eyes and imagine, close your eyes,

1100
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 4: listen to my voice. And this is the scene. This

1101
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 4: is a young nine year old body. Moven is trying

1102
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 4: on her Raggedy ann costume for Halloween, okay, and is

1103
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 4: told Halloween is canceled.

1104
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 2: What.

1105
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 4: Well, that's what happened a long, long, long time ago.

1106
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 3: But it's actually quite tragic. I mean, I'm being a.

1107
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 4: Little glib, but back in nineteen eighty two, there was

1108
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 4: a string of basically people dropping dead for no apparent reason,

1109
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 4: and it launched this investigation on you know what's happening. Well,

1110
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 4: Netflix's rest released a documentary about that, and it's called

1111
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 4: Cold Case the Tailannaw Murders, and it's really quite good

1112
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 4: and it really took me back in time. I mean,

1113
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 4: you guys remember this. We're all kind of the same age, right.

1114
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 3: I think I'm twenty one? Yeah, me too. I keep

1115
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 3: thirty three. Yes, I'm old enough to be here, right.

1116
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 4: Well, what happened was this little girl, she's twelve years old.

1117
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 3: Her name is Mary.

1118
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 4: She wakes up with a sore throat and her mom

1119
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 4: is dotiful and gives her some til and all, and

1120
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 4: within hours she's dead. The next day, a family, there's

1121
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 4: a family in a house, you know, just a normal family.

1122
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 4: The son takes a tail in all and he drops dead.

1123
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

1124
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 4: On the same family, no different family. But the brother

1125
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,959
Speaker 4: of the guy is grieving his brother who just dropped dead.

1126
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 3: He takes a tile and.

1127
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 4: All what everyone with the tailet alls, yeah, it's very sad.

1128
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 4: Then the sister, now look, keep everybody died and there's

1129
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 4: there's many victims and they they range from age twelve

1130
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 4: to thirty five. So these are really young people, very healthy.

1131
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,959
Speaker 4: No reason. Well, this is where we have another hero,

1132
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 4: a health worker. She's the only one in Chicago. These

1133
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: are all in Chicago, by the way. She goes to

1134
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 4: the home of the family where three people have died,

1135
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 4: and she sees a tail in all bottle, right, and

1136
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 4: she's looking at it and she smells it and she

1137
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 4: smells an almond, like an all you know that smell

1138
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 4: of almond, right, that almonds smell, And she recognizes.

1139
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: It as cyanide. That's how cyanide smells that what cyanide

1140
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: smells like almonds?

1141
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it smells like almond, you know that, like artificial almond.

1142
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 3: Family, I know.

1143
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 5: It so well because it gives me a headache I experience.

1144
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: It's like an air fresh. No like food food.

1145
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 5: Uh you know, like an added of an extract, got it.

1146
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's where that's where it comes from. It's really sweet.

1147
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 4: It's a really sweet smelling. It's very obvious. And so

1148
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 4: they took the tile and all bottle that she found

1149
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 4: and they tested it and there were a bunch not all,

1150
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 4: but a bunch of pills in there that had cyanide

1151
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 4: on them. And so that's why these people were dying. Well,

1152
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 4: interestingly enough, they found a guy who wrote a letter

1153
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 4: to the Chicago authorities and said I'm the one who

1154
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 4: did this and if you want me to stop, you

1155
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 4: have to pay me a bunch of money.

1156
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 3: Right.

1157
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 4: Well, they find out who the guy is, they arrest

1158
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 4: him and he's like, yeah, I wrote the letter, but

1159
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 4: I didn't do this.

1160
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, did body a quick question? Did I know

1161
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 5: this happened during the investigation? But did James Lewis send

1162
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 5: the letter to investigators or did he act send the

1163
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 5: letter to Jay and Johnson and Johnson who creates Taylan

1164
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 5: All and demand that they give him a million dollars.

1165
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 4: I think it went to Johnson and Johnson got it, Okay,

1166
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 4: I think it went to Johnson and john and of

1167
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 4: course Johnson and Johnson would have alerted the authorities and whatnot.

1168
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 4: He's in the documentary and I'm not going to tell

1169
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 4: you what happens because you really have to watch it,

1170
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 4: because this is like one of the most unbelievable interviews

1171
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 4: I've ever seen, the.

1172
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: Most you have to watch you've ever seen. Truly, I'm

1173
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 2: going to watch tonight. Truly, Boddy says one of and

1174
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: this is going to be a total oversell. And I'm

1175
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 2: sure we'll hear about this after people watch it, but

1176
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: I think it is literally the most compelling interview I've

1177
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: ever seen. I actually could not believe it as it unfolded,

1178
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,919
Speaker 2: and that is no for real, I'm not being paid

1179
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 2: to say that, but I was.

1180
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 3: Gonna say, we know the people who make it, we

1181
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 3: should have them all.

1182
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 4: Now listen as somebody who's been in a pretty compelling

1183
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 4: documentary and was like one of the main vocals, and

1184
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 4: I would like to say I was probably one of

1185
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 4: the better interview No, yes, no, this guy. This was

1186
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 4: in credible. This interview was jaw dropping, and I really

1187
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 4: really encourage people to watch this because it is it's

1188
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 4: another story of hope. If it wasn't for this health

1189
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 4: worker who probably doesn't make a lot of money. Right,

1190
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 4: she's the only one in the whole city. If she

1191
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 4: hadn't taken the initiative to go to the home and

1192
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: smell this bottle, how many more people would have been killed?

1193
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's right. It could have been an epidemic.

1194
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: And boy, they really corrected the problem, right, like nobody

1195
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 2: can open it account little right.

1196
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 4: Well, the reason that we have all these safety seals

1197
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 4: on things now.

1198
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 3: Is because of the talental murders. This was a terrifying time,

1199
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 3: a moment in time, and they corrected it very quickly.

1200
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 3: Johnson and Johnson.

1201
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 5: They actually went from opening any body you want of anything.

1202
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 5: Two they put a three stop method where the box

1203
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 5: itself you if you rip it, that's Tampa evidence. You

1204
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 5: can't open it without someone knowing. Also the cap that

1205
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 5: none of us could ever open ever. And third is

1206
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 5: that foil that's on top of everything that you have

1207
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 5: to puncture.

1208
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: Okay, annoying, No, I.

1209
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: Say better, I'm glad it work. I don't mean that, Yes,

1210
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: I please, I came out wrong. It is when you're

1211
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 2: trying to open it, and yes, shoving your finger in

1212
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: it it's brutal, but I'm very grateful that it's there,

1213
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: and it seems like they did a great job.

1214
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 5: So watch the doc and then call us. We're at

1215
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 5: eight eight eight three to one crime. We'll hear from

1216
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 5: you later this week. Stick around a lot more to

1217
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 5: dig into. We have very important missing persons cases we

1218
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 5: want to talk to you about, and later we're going

1219
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 5: to get to hear directly from you, which is our

1220
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 5: favorite part.

1221
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 3: Stay tuned.

1222
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 5: This is true crime tonight. I think we should talk

1223
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 5: about some missing persons cases because maybe this is a

1224
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 5: place where we can actually do something actionable, all with

1225
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 5: all of us together exactly, So Crewers. Laurence Spear, this

1226
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 5: is actually this is a sad story. Laurence Spear is

1227
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 5: a twenty year old Indiana University student. She was in Scarsdale,

1228
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 5: New York, and in June third of twenty eleven, she

1229
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 5: just vanished in the early hours. She'd been out drinking

1230
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 5: with her friends. They were at a sports bar and

1231
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 5: she was last seen It was about four thirty am.

1232
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 5: And there's this incredibly haunting video, just outdoor security video

1233
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 5: of her and she's walking barefoot. She doesn't have her phone,

1234
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 5: she has no keys, and this is a case that

1235
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 5: people have really investigated for long. There's been no trace

1236
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 5: and as of today the case remains unsolved. Maybe we've

1237
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 5: really have tried over the years too.

1238
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 2: You know, one of our former colleagues, Jeff Shane, this

1239
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: was his case, right, that he loved and went to

1240
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: the same school, and like they retract the steps, and

1241
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 2: you know, there is rumors, right because she was young

1242
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: and out and about and it was just so mysterious,

1243
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: and there was always these rumors that maybe there was

1244
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 2: like a gang of local guys and that they're all

1245
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: now adults living their best lives and it's like a

1246
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 2: secret amongst them. But we have never been able to

1247
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: really find anything. So this is one of those cases

1248
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 2: that if anybody has any new information, absolutely share. It's

1249
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 2: the one that keeps a lot of people up at night.

1250
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, just in the prime of her life. I mean,

1251
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 5: it's it's like Idaho. She was a college she was

1252
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 5: a university student. She was twenty years old. Laurence Spear

1253
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 5: was studying textile merchandising. Everyone said she was such a

1254
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 5: hard worker and you know her well, you know, as

1255
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 5: far as we know, her life was cut short or

1256
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 5: she has been missing since that night.

1257
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 3: Wasn't she like not she didn't have shoes on? Was that?

1258
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 2: Am I asthma remembering this? Like she kind of of

1259
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 2: something out of a bar and she was barefoot. There

1260
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: was something strange about her being barefoot, that's right.

1261
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 5: That's in the video you can actually see her. Her

1262
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 5: last known appearance is barefoot, no keys, and a couple

1263
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 5: of more details. Witnesses who had seen Lauren reported she

1264
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 5: was highly highly intoxicated, so much so that people think

1265
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 5: she may have been drugged while at the bar, and

1266
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 5: it's also been discussed Stephanie. You mentioned a lot of

1267
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 5: theories that Lauren may have actually suffered a medical emergency,

1268
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 5: potentially an overdose or something with her acquaintances who were

1269
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 5: also young college students, and maybe they got scared and

1270
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 5: wanted to cover it up, which is not an unheard

1271
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 5: of thing.

1272
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 4: Right. Well, she required like daily medication for a heart condition, right,

1273
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 4: so I wonder if there's something with her heart condition,

1274
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 4: maybe that she had some kind.

1275
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: Of reaction to town like that though, so you know,

1276
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 2: like just vanished in plain sight.

1277
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 5: Right, But you're exactly right, body that she did need

1278
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 5: daily medication. So if anyone knows anything or sees her.

1279
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 5: Lauren today would be a thirty four year old woman.

1280
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 5: In twenty eleven, she was four foot eleven and ninety pounds,

1281
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 5: a small girl. Her hair was blonde. She has blue eyes,

1282
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 5: and at the time she was wearing a white tank

1283
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 5: top with a loose shirt over it in black stretch pants.

1284
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 5: If you see her, called the Bloomington Police Department. They

1285
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 5: are at eight one, two, three, three, nine, four, four

1286
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 5: seven seven.

1287
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1288
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: Let's hold out hope. Yeah, let's hold out hope that

1289
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: you know she will come home.

1290
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 5: You never know if the right person hears the right

1291
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 5: information they needed to and body was there? Did you

1292
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 5: have another case? I think you did, yeah, Carl Gusse.

1293
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 5: So this is this is really really sad.

1294
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 4: I mean they're all sad, but this is pretty such

1295
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 4: only sixteen, so, Carl Gussey, she's sixteen. She lives in

1296
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 4: Chalfunt Valley, which is kind of near if you're familiar

1297
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 4: with California, it's kind of near.

1298
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 3: I looked it up on the map because I had

1299
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 3: never heard of it.

1300
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 4: It's near Bishop and like Mammoth, oh right right, just

1301
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 4: across the state line from Nevada. Actually, and she lived

1302
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 4: at Chaffault Valley. She disappeared on the morning of October thirteenth,

1303
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. Now, the night before, she had gone to

1304
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 4: a small gathering with friends and she was smoking pot,

1305
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 4: you know, as many sixteen year olds would do. This

1306
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 4: is not you know, a judgment on her.

1307
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 3: I mean, who didn't, right, teenagers?

1308
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 4: Right, Well, she had some kind of reaction, right, she

1309
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 4: had some kind of reaction, and she called her She

1310
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 4: started freaking out, saying that people were tracking her through

1311
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 4: her cell phone and that somebody was going to kill her.

1312
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 4: And she had such a reaction that she actually called

1313
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 4: her stepmother. And it's important to know that she lived

1314
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 4: with her father and her stepmom. Well, her stepmom came

1315
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 4: and dat her, brought her home, and then proceeded to

1316
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 4: record her on her for like about twenty minutes. Because

1317
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 4: she was acting so erratically, the stepmother wanted to show

1318
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 4: her in the morning like, look, this is what this

1319
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 4: kind of drug does to you. You know, like that

1320
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 4: she was being like a responsible parent. I think this

1321
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 4: is how you were acting. You know.

1322
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: Well, she wasn't there when in the morning time, so

1323
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 3: she might have teared off. Yeah, what happened?

1324
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 4: She was missing, right, so despite all the you know,

1325
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 4: the odd behavior that she was experiencing, you know, she

1326
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 4: again she was acting very radically, so much so that

1327
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 4: the stepmother wanted to record her and show her. She

1328
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 4: ended up missing and nobody has seen her since now.

1329
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 4: It has been reported, it has been reported in twenty

1330
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 4: twenty one, which is, you know, three years later, that

1331
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 4: she was seen in Tona Paul and ton Nepaul, if

1332
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 4: you don't know, is kind of across the state line.

1333
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 4: It's about twenty minutes away. It's about four hours north

1334
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 4: of Vegas. It's it's it's basically a gas station stop

1335
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 4: on the way to Reno's gonna say, it's very Yeah,

1336
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 4: I've only been there once. I've only driven to Reno,

1337
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 4: which by the way, is beautiful once. It's like a

1338
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 4: it's like another world of the beautiful, and so it's

1339
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 4: it would be it would be very interesting and kind

1340
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 4: of odd for her to be there, although it's only

1341
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 4: twenty minutes away from her hometown, it would be kind

1342
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 4: of a weird place for her to be. That's like

1343
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 4: where the Little Alien is and like the Clown Motel.

1344
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 4: You know, I'm sure it's very it's a very eclectic,

1345
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 4: little town, but that lead has not been substantiated in

1346
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 4: Carly's whereabouts remain unknown. Now, one thing that is kind

1347
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 4: of contentious in this and the reason I bring up

1348
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 4: where she lived. She did not live with her mother.

1349
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 4: She lived with her stepmother and her father and Carly's

1350
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 4: biological mother. Her name is Lindsey Fairley. She has publicly

1351
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,560
Speaker 4: expressed doubts about the account of the stepmother.

1352
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 2: Something the fairy has happened with the stepmother potentially that

1353
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 2: I mean, she's kind.

1354
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 4: Of insinuating there's inconsistencies in their narratives. Whoa now she

1355
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 4: I don't think she's come out and outright accused them

1356
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 4: of anything, but you know, they were the last or specifically,

1357
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 4: the stepmother was the last to see her, and you know,

1358
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 4: is the one that basically found that she was missing.

1359
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 4: So it is logical, you know, the last person seen.

1360
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 4: But it also could just be that, you know, the

1361
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 4: stepmother went to bed and Carly, you know, in her

1362
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 4: paranoid state, wandered off, right, So you have to be

1363
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 4: real careful about that stuff.

1364
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, you know, it's such a I

1365
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: can't imagine anything harder. My heart goes out, you know,

1366
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 2: to their family see the idea of missing like, you

1367
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:48,879
Speaker 2: just can't get out of that loop. And I can't imagine, frankly,

1368
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 2: anything worse. Every night I would go to bed wondering, Yeah,

1369
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 2: you can't eat, sleep or you know anything. I'm going

1370
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 2: to really hold out hope too, that Madeline McCain comes home.

1371
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 2: I know, you know, and our hearts are with you know,

1372
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 2: her family as well.

1373
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 5: And listen, there are over six hundred thousand people in

1374
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 5: the United States alone who go missing every single year,

1375
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 5: and listen, a lot of them are found, but tens

1376
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 5: of thousands stay unsolved.

1377
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 3: That's true.

1378
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's sometimes it's crowdsourcing and things

1379
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 2: that actually really does move the needle. So you know,

1380
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 2: having these types of conversations and starting these types of

1381
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 2: conversations is really an important piece of the puzzle. I

1382
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 2: gotta tell you, though, all I want to talk about

1383
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 2: is justin Baldoni now or something a little bit lighter,

1384
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 2: because it's so hard.

1385
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 3: My heart hurts right now.

1386
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 4: Right well, I need to give people the information on

1387
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 4: how to get you know, fin find if you find her,

1388
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 4: if you see her, she would now be twenty three.

1389
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 4: She had dark blonde hair and blue eyes. She's five

1390
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 4: seven on the one hundred and ten pounds and she

1391
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 4: had her left nostril. Peers, please call seven six oh

1392
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 4: nine three two five six seven eight and that is

1393
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 4: the Mono Sheriff's apartment. So if you see Carligue, say

1394
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 4: please give them a call.

1395
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 3: Thank you for that.

1396
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 5: Now it is important. And you know, as we said,

1397
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 5: if anyone has any cases that they want us to

1398
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 5: look into, whether it's missing persons or a cold case,

1399
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 5: you know, going back to that cold case where the

1400
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:30,919
Speaker 5: investigators just couldn't let go for twenty years and finally arrested,

1401
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 5: hopefully the right man.

1402
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 2: And sometimes it takes a second set of eyes, right,

1403
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: So you know, even though we're not investigators quite obviously,

1404
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 2: nor are we experts, but sometimes, you know, I can't

1405
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: tell you how many times this has happened at work,

1406
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 2: where we're looking at something that says, you know, the

1407
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 2: autopsy says Tuesday, but everybody else says it was a Wednesday.

1408
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: And it just sometimes gets you know, passed down for

1409
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,600
Speaker 2: years and years and years and years and years, or

1410
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 2: stories get repeated a certain way, and you know, with

1411
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 2: no intention of misleading anybody. Sometimes you know, memories aren't perfect,

1412
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 2: and things get you know, re said the wrong way.

1413
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 2: So sometimes having a second look with fresh eyes from

1414
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:11,879
Speaker 2: a group is super helpful.

1415
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 3: That's right.

1416
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 5: And to your point, Stephanie, a lot of people who

1417
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 5: have solved cold cases, a lot of investigators, it is

1418
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 5: in the going back that maybe oh some fact was

1419
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 5: maybe interpreted one way correct, and you know, and then

1420
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 5: it just gets interpreted in another.

1421
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 4: Well, even one new piece of information comes in that

1422
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 4: makes that other fact make more sense, right, I mean,

1423
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 4: I mean I've experienced that where I'm looking at something

1424
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 4: like Okay, that's a but then B comes in.

1425
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, it's c exactly.

1426
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 2: And again, if any of these stories tonight resonate, or

1427
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 2: if you want us to start new cases or share

1428
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 2: some of your opinions about any of the things we're covering,

1429
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: just hit us up in our socials at True Crime

1430
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 2: Tonight's show, for TikTok and Instagram, or at true Crime

1431
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: on Facebook. So as long as he could follow that,

1432
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 2: we definitely want to hear from you. So it seems

1433
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 2: as though we have some sort of a caller, Amy, can.

1434
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 3: You hear us? Hi Amy? Hi Amy, Hi, this is

1435
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 3: my favorite.

1436
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,560
Speaker 7: Hi Hi, Amy, How are you good?

1437
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 3: This is staph and I'm here with you know, Courtney

1438
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 3: and body.

1439
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 9: I was listening to True Crime on my way home

1440
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 9: just now. And my he was my sister's boyfriend. He

1441
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 9: was my like a brother to me. He's my we

1442
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 9: called my brother in law. He's been missing for over

1443
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 9: five years. Yeah. We were from Kentucky. I grew up

1444
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 9: in Powell County. He was actually in Powell County where

1445
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 9: my sister had moved to. He was, they were together,

1446
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 9: He was around people he shouldn't have been around. But

1447
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 9: there's so many stories as to what happened to him.

1448
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 9: He was severely diabetic. He was at the Quay City

1449
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 9: Inn in Quay City, a hotel there. M They ended

1450
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 9: up finding his medicine back behind Clay c the end,

1451
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 9: without the syringes in it, and the only thing in

1452
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 9: it was his something that wasn't needed by drug addicts.

1453
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,560
Speaker 9: I'll say that, yes, So they end up finding that.

1454
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 9: Like I said, there's so many stories as to what

1455
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 9: happened to him. He is presumed dead, but I have

1456
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 9: two nephews. You know, he had two kids. I have

1457
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 9: two nephews who they don't have any closure. And I

1458
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 9: heard one of you, I'll say something. If the right

1459
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:34,759
Speaker 9: person here's any information about it, they might come forward

1460
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 9: and say who who I had something to do with

1461
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,640
Speaker 9: it and bring justice because we still don't have his

1462
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 9: body back. And there was surveillance footage of him hiding

1463
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 9: behind someone's house and you see two vehicles circling around

1464
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 9: looking for him, and he's if you knew Sean, he

1465
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 9: he was running for his life.

1466
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 8: He was scared for.

1467
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 9: There was a house right beside the police station in

1468
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 9: Stanton in Powell County, and it showed versurvey what shows

1469
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 9: a girl walking in the house where he was, where

1470
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 9: there was supposed to be evidence of what happened to

1471
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 9: him at and she goes and sets the house on

1472
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 9: far and then her walking outside. Thereeople who should have

1473
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:18,560
Speaker 9: been arrested, who are not arrested.

1474
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 2: Yeah no, And this listen, this is the type of

1475
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: case that I think we would really love to dig

1476
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 2: into and want to make sure that we have enough

1477
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 2: space even in this conversation to make sure we're giving

1478
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: it the dignity it deserves. First, software, so sorry for you,

1479
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: what a tragedy for your sister, and you know, for

1480
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 2: your nieces or nephews that said, maybe we can call

1481
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: you tomorrow to get some more of those extensive details

1482
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 2: and see what we can do and put it up

1483
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 2: on our social media as well. It does take just

1484
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 2: one person, and frankly, that's what this is all about.

1485
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 2: So first and foremost, thank you for calling, and then

1486
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 2: we absolutely will follow up and and please stay with

1487
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 2: us all week. We're you know, we're wrapping for the night,

1488
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 2: but we will be back tomorrow two hours live. So again,

1489
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 2: the Gabby Potito story, we're gonna dig back in. And

1490
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,560
Speaker 2: then also, you know, ditting I have a sneaking suspicion

1491
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 2: there will be an update in that trial as well,

1492
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 2: so make sure we tune in tomorrow. This has been

1493
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight, where we talk about true crime all

1494
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 2: the time,