WEBVTT - Selects: What Was the Deal With the Hatfields and McCoys? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.760 M Hey everybody, it's me Josh and for this week's 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.600 s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our classic episode 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.120 on the classic feud between the classic families, the hat 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.120 Fields and the McCoy's. It's one of the more interesting 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.720 stories of American history and it's way more nuts than 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.319 you even thought. And I don't know about you, though, 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:22.599 I just want to put a little bug in your ear. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.720 Every time I hear the name Jim Vance in this episode, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:27.800 I always want to follow it in my mind with 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.240 Vance refrigeration. See if that happens to you. Now that 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.239 I've said that, I hope you enjoy this one. It's 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:43.320 a classic, as I said, so enjoy away. Welcome to 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.000 Stuff You Should Know, a production of My Heart Radios 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:54.360 How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.280 Josh Clark. Charles W. Took. Brian is staring at me 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.520 right now. It's making me a toun uncomfortable. Jerry's over there. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.640 I can feel her eyes burning into the side of 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.160 my head. So is the Stuff You Should Know? Where 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.800 would you like me to look? Uh uh in my ear? 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.240 Oh that's always so weird to someone's like looking, Are 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.000 you doing it right? Now like right at your hair 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:20.400 or really? Yeah, interesting, try my other ear. Oh yeah, 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.360 that's that's the stuff the right. Sorry, that's your left. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.560 That's my left ear. All right, I'll remember that. Look 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.240 watch this, chuck, after seven years, can you see that 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:34.720 I can wiggle ears independently? Drives me crazy? So you 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.600 sit around and do it? Probably try not like a 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:42.399 good husband. Um, chuck. Yes, we have a bit of 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.959 an announcement here. Yeah, what we just heard? Yes, yeah, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.920 we're in the room with either a hat Field or McCoy. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.680 Jerry doesn't know which family she's related to. She just 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.400 knows that she's related to one of them. Yeah, like literally, 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:57.320 right before we press the courts, she's like, oh, by 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.320 the way, I'm related to one of these families. I'm 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.520 just not sure which. And a family member told her, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.960 but she cousin Tyler was that? Who was? I don't know. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.600 I think that's what she said, cousin. I get the 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.960 impression from Jerry's story though, that she's sort of like 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.800 glazed over and that's why she doesn't know. But she 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.400 does carry a six shooter on her hip, and that 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.720 explains that this is McCoy on the barrel, So maybe right, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.560 but does that mean that it's a bullet from the 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.760 McCoys or for the McCoy's good monstry remains, you know, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.880 good point. So we are talking about the hat Fields 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.040 in the McCoy's. For those of you who don't live 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.480 in the United States, you probably have heard of the 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.520 hat Fields in the McCoy's. It's a pretty legendary feud. Yeah, right, 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.840 we've heard of some of your history UK Australia, Matthew Flinders, 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.480 there's a name drop for you. Yeah, so hopefully you've 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.240 heard of the hat Fields in the McCoy's. Yeah, I 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.440 mean there was, if nothing else, there was a big 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.480 mini series a few years ago on television, Yeah, with 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:03.880 Kevin Costner and Bill Paxton, and apparently it was really dramatized. Yeah, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:09.920 like asn't fictionalized. Yeah, cinematized and yeah, a little not 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.040 quite fully accurate, but at least at least they brought 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.080 attention to the feud because it needs agreed. So, the 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:23.520 hat Fields in McCoy's um is a family feud, so 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.360 much so that in nine the hat Fields and the 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.200 McCoy's were on the TV show Family Feud, apparently for 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.080 a full week from what I saw, and I read 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.600 that legend has it that it didn't actually inspired the 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.400 TV show, but I didn't get good verification on that. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.520 Now and there there have been other family feuds, right, 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.720 but none are as famous as the hat Fields in 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.080 the McCoys, although at the time there were more famous 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.400 family feuds. But the hat Fields in McCoys just took 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.960 it to another level because all of the murder. Yeah, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.080 there there was a lot of murder. It was mountain 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.760 folk versus mountain folks, families that had been intermarried and 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.520 worked for one another, and um had lived together for decades, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:13.839 if not longer, alongside in this little area along the 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.560 Sandy River, I believe, the Big Sandy River, in something 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.840 that's called the Tug River Valley, and on one side 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.200 mostly the hat Fields lived on the West Virginia side 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.920 in Logan County, and right across the river on the 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.839 other side in Kentucky. The McCoy has lived in Pike County. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.599 And that's how it was for days gone by. Yeah, 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.440 and they they were not new to the United States, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.760 So I guess it wasn't the United States then, was it. Yeah, 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.520 we're talking about the fifties seventies. I was way off then, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.480 but they came to America many many years before that. Um. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.839 Apparently the hat Fields were some of the very first 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.520 to come to uh, the New World from northern Land, 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.880 and the McCoy's are obviously from Germany. Well, the hat 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.880 Fields were originally the heath Fields in England. That sounds 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.200 way more British. Yeah, but you know how you do. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.719 You come over to America and you you dumb it 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.000 down a little. I know Heath Ledger changed his name 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.160 to hat Ledger when he got here, didn't he all right? 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.440 P uh. And the McCoy's come from Scotland, of course 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.040 you could probably figure that out, moved to Ireland before 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.480 they came to the New World. And the first known 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.440 McCoy was John McCoy in America. When was that, uh, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.840 seventeen thirty two from Belfast, Ireland. So did they move 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.960 directly to the Tug River area? Is that where they settled? Now? 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.080 The McCoy's first settled in Maryland, where he was a 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.080 prominent landowner, and I think the Hatfield's first moved to 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:52.320 Tug Valley in eighteen twenty and the McCoy's uh in 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.000 eighteen o two with their twelve kids. So they've been like, really, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.680 these families had grown up living in in working with 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.080 each other. Was not just these two families in the area, 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.359 there are plenty of other families, but like they were neighbors, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:13.120 co workers, bosson employee, they were, they were husbands and wives, 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.880 they intermarried, you know, I mean like they were they 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.880 were living together for decades. Yeah. I think the two 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.840 um that originally settled at tug Fork were the actual 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:28.000 parents of the two main protagonists or antagonists. I guess 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.119 they were both. Yeah, they were both pro and and 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:35.920 and so they the the story. Our story really kind 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.880 of begins around about the Civil War. UM, this area 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.520 of the Tug River Valley was mostly Confederate, and both 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.080 the Hatfield and the McCoy's were Confederate sympathizers, if not 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:53.640 outright Confederate soldiers. UM. The antagonist or protagonist the patriarch 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.760 of the Hatfield family when the story begins. His name 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.880 was devil Ants Hatfield, right, Yeah, that was his nickname. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.560 His real name was William Anderson Hatfield. Yeah, but devil 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.640 Ace what a cool name. Yeah. And I saw a 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.240 couple of different explanations for where his nickname came from. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.400 But my favorite one was that his mother said he 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.400 was so mean, the devil himself was scared of him. Yeah. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.240 I saw one that said he was six ft of 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.360 devil in a hundred and eighty pounds of hell. They 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.560 had stupid sayings back then. Yeah, that was It didn't 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.080 quite add up, especially in the backwoods of Kentucky and 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.520 West Virginia. You know, they just said stuff. They just 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:33.120 made up names as as we'll see throughout this whole episode. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.160 But um, devil ants himself was a he was from 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.680 what I saw. He was described as somebody who took 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.760 life by the horns, right. He was very much a 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.760 self made man. Um. He got he became a pretty 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.480 wealthy timber merchant over the years. But he was, um, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.840 he was a violent man. Uh. And he was a well, 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.920 he had some violent tendencies for sure. Yeah. And um, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.320 you know, if you want to trace back the reason 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:06.000 for the Hatfield McCoy feud, there isn't I think from 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.720 everything I read, there isn't like one single thing. It's 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.400 often blamed on the pig deal, which we'll hear about 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.800 coming up. That seems to be the one that historians 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.040 point to the most these days though, Yeah, but as 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.520 sort of a convenient way of telling the story, because like, 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.760 what what better way to kick off a feud than 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.360 like with the stolen pig? Right it? Definitely there were 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.160 other problems or issues between these families before then, right yeah. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:29.720 But the point is there are a lot of different 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.760 things going on, and one of them was, like you said, 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.320 was Um devil Ants made a lot more money than 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.000 McCoy as as a timber guy. So on the other 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.760 side of the river, in the Kentucky side Pike County, Kentucky, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.640 there were the McCoy's, and at the time that devil 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.040 Ants was the patriarch of the Hatfield clan, a man 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:54.080 named Randall McCoy Old Randal h was the head of 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.960 the McCoy clan across the river in Kentucky, Right, Yeah. 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.560 I just get the sense that he had his sort 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.760 of smaller business and was always a little bit envious 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.400 of the larger timber business across very much. So he 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.480 was um. The way that I saw him described was um. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.520 If devil Ants as a man who took life by 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.679 the horns, Old Randal was somebody who got hooked by 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:22.400 life's horns and he was very bitter about his lot 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.880 in life. His father, Um I saw, was described as 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:31.120 didn't much care for work. Um didn't leave, didn't leave 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.960 his kids anything. So his son had to be a 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.160 self made man. But he was a self made man 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.360 who never really made himself. He married a woman named Sarah, 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.960 and Sarah's father died and left them some land and 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.160 he was able to homestead on that. So that's how 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:51.079 he was able to establish himself was through his wife's 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.400 inheritance of her father's land. Um, but it was enough 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.080 to set him up. They were fine. They weren't prosperous, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.320 but they weren't like just completely poverty stricken like Randall 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.440 had grown up. But just across the river and and 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.160 this other family that he had to deal with and 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.000 work with, um and and just kind of see and 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.360 interact with, was a man who he you know, had 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.640 made himself. And and definitely Randall was bitter about that 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.200 idea and the comparison between himself and devil ance. Yeah, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.400 and I think um, some of the McCoys even worked 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.760 for some of the hat Fields, which is always gonna 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.400 be a little tense when you feel like maybe that 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.120 feeling of superiority comes over one family because you're working 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.240 for me, you know. Yeah, So there's definitely like you're saying, tention, right, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.720 and and you can point to maybe these guys coming 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.800 into their own as the heads of the family when 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:47.480 the tension really started. For many years historians pointed to 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.720 a specific incident as the source of the family feud um, 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.480 but that's since been abandoned. So, like we said, the 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.920 Civil War is about the time when this story really starts. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.640 In earnest and most of the Tug River Valley was Confederate. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.559 Devil Lance and possibly Randall McCoy were part of what 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.600 we're called the Logan Wildcats, which was a militia, but 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.760 during the Civil War they were an actual like army 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.280 unit of the Confederate Army. Yeah, and that's all where 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.680 Devil Lance was even the leader in one place. But 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.719 I didn't get that verified a bunch either, So so 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.439 very least was in the brigade, right, And I got 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.400 the impression that if he wasn't a leader, he was 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.920 a de facto leader, because that was just this type 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.640 of personality Devil Lance. Don't answer to nobody, right, you 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.679 answer to him, That's right. That was a great devil 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.240 Lance by the way. So I think the leader of 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.080 the Logan Wildcats is another character who will come up later. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:47.880 And his name is Um Jim Vance, So Jim Vance. Um. 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.720 He was not a very great guy from what I 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.120 can understand. But I'll let him paint his own picture. Okay, Oh, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.079 was he coming in? He will in a little bit. Instead, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.760 we're gonna focus on a guy named Asa Harmon McCoy. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.480 And this guy I don't have a beat on. He 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.240 decided in in just complete contrast of the place where 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.400 he grew up. Um, he was going to join the 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.320 Yankee Union Army. Yeah, and he did, Yeah, but he 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.840 broke his leg and and uh left the service after 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.360 I think a year back. While he was in service, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.240 his um commanding officer in the Union Army ordered him 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.800 to fight devil ants because there was rumors that he 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:34.000 was a Confederate spy. So Harmon fights devil nts, loses 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:35.839 the fight. And I didn't get a sense on what 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.280 kind of fight it was, whether it was like a 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.320 gun battle or whether he literally just like spit on 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.559 his boot and like took a swing. I'm not sure. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.160 I don't know that if the if that was even 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.440 in the mini series. Um so they getting a fight, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.720 he loses, and then uh the can the Union troops 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.679 went after devil Ance at that point, which is really 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.839 what cost a lot of the early issues. Uh. And 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.360 then later on Harmon shot a friend of devil Ance 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.960 while stealing his horse, so in turn he killed Harmon's 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.920 commanding officer in the Union army. Okay, there's a lot 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.800 of bad blood. The guy was like literally, General Bill 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.440 France was peeing off his porch like I do, and 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.480 Devils shot him in cold blood. I hope, I hope 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.200 that does not happen to you. I really hope so too. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:25.959 It would be a bad way to go. Gives you pause, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.920 you know. Yeah. So, um the after the war, after 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:35.240 um Asa, Harmon McCoy uh came back home. I did 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.400 not realize the attentions were already that high. I had 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.319 the impression that was just because he fought for the Union. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.360 I didn't know he had been made to directly target 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.160 devil Ants right well, devil Lands and the Logan Wildcats 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.560 basically sent as a message saying watch yourself, because we're 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.520 coming for you. And he very wisely went off and 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.800 lived in a cave for a while he hit out, 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:58.960 And so with this guy, you're like, why did he 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.839 go fire for the Union? Was abolitionists? No, he had 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.840 a slave, and the slave kept him alive by bringing 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.520 him food and stuff while he was in the cave. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.480 So I have no idea why he went and fought 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:10.840 for the Union. It's weird. The fact that he did, though, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.680 meant that his own relatives, his own McCoy is, including Randall, 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.640 his brother. Um, really, we're just kind of like, yeah, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.880 the Logan Wildcats are out to get you, and you 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.440 brought the sign yourself, so we don't really feel for you. 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.000 And they didn't apparently make much of a problem or 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.840 much they didn't take issue with it. When the Logan 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.400 Wildcats tracked him down to the cave and killed him, well, 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.000 he was actually coming home when they killed him. I 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.600 think he finally thought like, surely, after all this time, 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:47.280 they've forgotten about this troglobe bite troglodyte. Yeah, so he 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.080 was walking home to see his family that he hadn't 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.480 seen in years and Jim Vance shot him. That's how 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.880 long he was in the cave. Well, that might have 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.400 been part of the war, but it said a few 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.120 years man alive so well at fulle Man Debt. Asa 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.840 Harmon Uh McCoy is killed by the Logan Wildcats, and 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.800 apparently at first everybody thought it was Devil Answer did it, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.120 but he turned out to have been bedridden at the time, 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.520 so we had an alibi, and they think instead that 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.000 it was Jim Vance who led it and probably killed 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:20.000 Asa doing his Devil's uncle okay um and strong ally 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.200 Jim Vance was so uh, Asa Harmon is dead. The 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.480 first shot has been fired in the family feud, so 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.160 thought the historians for years, and then I guess after 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.080 interviewing actual hat Fields and McCoy's they realized that no, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.000 actually the McCoy's were like, he brought it on himself. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.160 That's that's we made peace with this, and no charges 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.600 were even brought in the murder of Asa McCoy. Yeah. 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.960 I saw one article that described it as a murder agreement, 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.680 which apparently used to have that like blood in, blood out, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.960 and everyone's like, all right, even Stephen, okay, so done 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.800 and the first death has occurred in the Hatfield McCoy feud, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.440 but it has nothing to do with a hat Film 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.960 McCoy feud. Technically, yes, that seems like a pretty good 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:26.600 time to take a break, don't you agreed, sir, So Chuck, 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:32.080 we're back and asa harm Instead. Things are whatever between 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.960 the hat Fields and mccois. Nothing, nothing big has gone on, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.440 even if there were any sort of skirmishes or little 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.280 fights or run ins or that kind of thing. I 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.920 get the impression that the families when they saw each other, 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.800 there was like a a slight percentage that the sides 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.480 were going to get in at least a fist fight, 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.680 did not take like pot shots, and right now they're 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.800 with their guns. I just think they probably just didn't 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.360 like each other very much from the beginning, so there's 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.320 possible those things went on. Nothing big happened though, until 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.080 the pig the pig incident, and apparently it wasn't just 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.040 one pig, that's what it's been boiled down to, but 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.760 it was several. Yeah, and it was a big deal 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.280 if you think about a pig. Stealing a pig is 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.800 not a big deal at the time. There's a book 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:20.280 called The Feud by Din King. Din King Dean King 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:27.959 thinking said it's so weird, Dean King, And he said, uh, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.240 where was their next meal going to come from? And 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.199 how could they feed the children in the winter. They 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.639 were lucky enough to have one pig or razorback for 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.400 cell or trade. The proceeds were used to acquire flour, sugar, coffee, 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.960 sometimes shoes or boots for their families. It was a 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.960 mainstay for the family. So these days you hear a 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.760 pig or even a couple of pigs, you think, what's 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.879 a big deal. But in the region at the time, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.320 these these pigs were very valuable, so it was a 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.320 big deal. Right. I saw a and in the front 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.520 I saw a dude on well, yeah, and that was 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.560 another thing. Again, we're talking out backwoods Appalachian folk in 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.600 the nineteenth century. There was a lot to the idea 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.800 that you had stolen their property, which as it should be. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.080 But even that aside. I saw this historian on Um 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.040 a CBS Sunday Morning clip from a few years ago, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.639 and he explained, like, you can feed a sizeable family 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.680 for a month with a single pig, And this guy 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.959 stole several pigs. So the guy who was accused of 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.560 stealing the pig was um Who was it, Chuck who? 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.439 Randolph McCoy accused Floyd Hatfield. Okay, right, so um Old 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.800 Randall himself said Floyd Hatfield, cousin of devl Ance, I 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.960 know that you stole those pigs, and I'm taking you 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.959 to court. Well, they went to court. The problem is 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.080 the local magistrate was a hat Field. But in this 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.760 guy's favor, his name was a preacher. It was his 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.199 first name, I believe, and he was basically the what 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.919 amounted to the local judge in the tug River Valley. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.119 He he tried to make it a fair trial. Is 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.160 he the one that placed it in McCoy land because 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.000 the trial took place in McCoy territory, Yes, anxided by 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.560 a Hatfield though, right, And he made sure that the 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.080 jury had six hat Fields and six McCoy's on it. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.439 He did and nobody else, no joke. Yes, so weird, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.200 but he was trying to make it as fair as possible, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.760 right um. And so they had a trial where Floyd 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.280 Hatfield was tried for hog theft. Have you ever had 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.320 something stolen from you, like, you know, not hugely valuable, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.399 but yeah, it's It's one of the things that irks 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.520 me most. It's very irritating. There's something about like just 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:47.399 someone taking something that you worked to buy that just 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.960 really boils my blood. Now, imagine if they took that 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.119 thing that you worked to buy, and they were directly 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.640 taking food out of your child's mouth at the same time, 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.680 it makes you mad. I'd pull a hat Field. That 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.920 we thing is is that the McCoy's and the halfl 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.240 Is at this point are saying, we will let the 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.880 we will leave it to the courts. Right. So they 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:08.879 did go to court. They did try to have a 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.960 fair trial. Um, or at least the preacher did. Preacher 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:18.800 halt Field, preacher judge right. Um. It's confusing, and the 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.920 the jury was split except for one who was a 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.119 McCoy who sided with the hat Fields. His name was 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.840 Selkirk McCoy another made up name and Selkirk Um. He 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.720 voted that because of a guy named Bill Staton, who 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.360 had testified that Floyd had not stolen the pigs. Um. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.360 He said, you know what, I'm not going to contradict 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.359 Bill Staton. I know him to be truthful or whatever. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.280 Plus I work for Devil Anson his logging operation. So 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.639 I'm gonna vote pro hat Field and exonerate Floyd. And 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.359 Floyd got off and Old Randall went nuts. Yes, Staton 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.600 was the main witness and he was a relative of 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.320 the McCoy's, but he was married to a hat Field right. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.199 So um, and while they did intermarry, I saw that 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.480 there was way more marrying within the family to avoid intermarrying. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.679 Oh yeah, there was a lot of first cousins that 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.840 were When you watch that Family Feud clip, you can 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.679 go find it on I'm sure on YouTube. But there 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.720 was a mental flass article that we found that had 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.000 it embedded at the bottom. That's where I first heard 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.359 about it. The that when they're introducing the families, they 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.440 keep introducing one another is like kissing cousins. This is 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.880 a kissing cousin, Diane, and like the families are saying 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.719 that nine. So yeah, there was a lot of like 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.240 inner marriage within the family itself. Well, they were probably 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.800 just joking, right, No, No, on Family Feud, you don't 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.840 think the guy didn't sound like he was joking. Did 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.280 he kiss his cousin on TV? No? But Richard Dawson 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.400 kissed her. He kissed everything. Guy kissed any woman who 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.040 had stand still long enough. What a flirt, Richard Dawson. 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:02.399 So yeah, r I P. Yeah, he didn't change his 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.040 name even though he was British. Uh, well, you don't 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:11.760 know that that's true. It could have been Richard Dimpsum 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:18.320 or Chumley Dawson. That's a great name. So so uh, 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.520 Old Randall has just lost this court case. And even worse, 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.200 he was made to pay the hat Fields court costs 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.000 for taking him to court. And remember we characterized Old 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.160 Randall as a kind of a bitter man. Anytime life 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.280 handed him lemons, he just squeezed him into his eyes, 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.199 go to anger, right um. And he went on for 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.600 this for basically years, about how this is a miscarriage 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.560 of justice, how Floyd had stolen his hogs. And so 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:51.200 now any time hat Fields and McCoy's um went, depending 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:55.160 on their allegiance to the clan or clans um, anytime 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:57.600 they saw each other, they were shooting at one another. 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.320 They were getting into fights, they were throwing rocks. One 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:05.200 of Um, one of devil Ant's sons, was standing there 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.200 when Old Randall rode up once and Old Randall started 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:10.560 railing on him about how Floyd had stolen a hog, 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.840 and the McCoys or the Hatfield Sun grabbed rock and 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.280