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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session four eighteen of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. We're stepping into summer and vacation

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Speaker 1: season is in full swing. For many, that means excitement, adventure,

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Speaker 1: and a pat travel itinerary. But for others, especially when

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Speaker 1: it comes to flying, it can stir up a lot

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Speaker 1: of anxiety. With everything we've seen in the news this year,

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Speaker 1: those feelings might be new or more intense than ever.

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Speaker 1: In today's episode, we're talking about how to navigate flight

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Speaker 1: anxiety so it doesn't get in the way of the

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Speaker 1: special moments and experiences that matter most to help us

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Speaker 1: explore ways to manage and move through anxiety. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to welcome doctor Angela Neil Barnett into the conversation. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Neil Barnett is a professor of psychological science at Kin

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Speaker 1: State University and a leading expert in the mental health

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Speaker 1: of underserved populations, with an emphasis on anxiety and trauma

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Speaker 1: related disorder. She's also the author of Soothe Your Nerves,

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Speaker 1: The Black Woman's Guide to Understanding and Overcoming anxiety, panic,

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Speaker 1: and fear. After our conversation with doctor Neil Bournette, be

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Speaker 1: sure to stay tuned to hear from aviation professional and

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Speaker 1: flight attendant Isaiah Peters, who will provide some helpful tips

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Speaker 1: for tackling a fear of flying and share how his

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Speaker 1: own experience in disguise has shaped his approach to supporting

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Speaker 1: anxious travelers. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: TPG in Session, or join us over in our Patreon

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Speaker 1: community to talk more about the episode. You can join

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Speaker 1: us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's

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Speaker 1: our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining us today,

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Speaker 1: doctor Neil Bournett.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's a pleasure to be here, doctor Joy Blight.

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Speaker 2: Students love you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so appreciative of that love. Tell them I

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Speaker 1: love them.

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Speaker 2: Will make their day.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, they will be so exciting

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Speaker 1: to hear you on the podcast. Then, So I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to chat with you because I feel like you wrote

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Speaker 1: a book about black women's anxiety when there were not

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Speaker 1: lots of books being written specifically about the ways that

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Speaker 1: mental health impacts black women. So can you tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit about like the work that you've done

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Speaker 1: studying black women's anxiety and how it maybe looks different.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Like, I guess the way to start is to

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Speaker 2: tell you how I got into it because I had

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Speaker 2: no intention of ever being a researcher. Oh, and I

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Speaker 2: was on residency internship and it was when anxiety disorders

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Speaker 2: were a new diagnoses in the DSM. So that just

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Speaker 2: shokes you how long ago that was. And all the

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Speaker 2: leading researchers came to where I was going to internship

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Speaker 2: at they were talking about anxiety this and anxiety that,

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Speaker 2: but they weren't talking about anxiety in Black Americans, and

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Speaker 2: so I raised my hand. I asked about anxiety in

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Speaker 2: Black American children, and the researcher said to me, well,

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Speaker 2: we think black kids' fears are the same as white kids' fears,

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Speaker 2: except that black kids were more likely to be afraid

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Speaker 2: of things like rats and ruptures. And I was absolutely livid.

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Speaker 2: And my preceptor, my mentor, was a slow talking Black

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Speaker 2: sothern male, and he said to me, Angela, you can

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Speaker 2: either get angry or.

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Speaker 3: You could do the research.

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Speaker 2: And that's how I started three decades ago researching anxiety

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Speaker 2: in Black Americans. I started with kids, and then I

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Speaker 2: expanded to black men and women, and then I just

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Speaker 2: began to look at anxiety in the bl I've been

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Speaker 2: doing that again, as I said, for three decades. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I'm going to stop doing that because I

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Speaker 2: learned something new every year, and when it turned out wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I was doing this research, and I thought that I

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Speaker 2: was doing it for the black community. The only people

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Speaker 2: who were benefiting from what I was doing or who

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Speaker 2: were reading what I was doing was of course my mother,

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Speaker 2: and then all the other researchers in the field, who

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Speaker 2: at that time were white and so the work wasn't

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Speaker 2: reaching the people I was doing the research fund were

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Speaker 2: in doing the research for. And that's what led me

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Speaker 2: to write the books Though Your Nerves, The Black Woman's

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Speaker 2: Guide to Understanding and Overcoming Anxiety, Panic and Fear, and

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Speaker 2: people twenty years later, people still read the book, therapist,

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Speaker 2: use the book. It'soking. I'm very very excited about and

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Speaker 2: proud of that the work that I've done continues to

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Speaker 2: make a difference for Black women.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And can you maybe hit on some of

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Speaker 1: those highlights whereas doctor niebarn and like even the thirty

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Speaker 1: plus years of work that you've done, can you say, what,

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Speaker 1: how does anxiety typically look different in Black women or

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Speaker 1: what different techniques can black women?

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Speaker 2: Sure, one of the ways it looks different is that

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Speaker 2: for Black women anxiety the symptoms are more intense, and

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Speaker 2: we tend to suffer from anxiety longer than are white

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Speaker 2: or Hispanic or LATINX counterparts, more chronic, more intense. We

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Speaker 2: discovered early on that there was this form of panic

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Speaker 2: attacks called isolated sleep paralysis, which is now the dsent

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Speaker 2: it wasn't before, and isolated sleep paralysis and you're in

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Speaker 2: the South, doctor Joy, so you're born and rape in

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Speaker 2: the South, or who were raised by people who were

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Speaker 2: raised in the South. You'll hear them talking about which

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Speaker 2: riding or hate got a hold of me. And this

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Speaker 2: occurs in other cultures as well, but for Black folks,

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Speaker 2: what happens is is recurrentt and it tends to be

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Speaker 2: a different form or variation of a panic attack. So

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Speaker 2: isolated sleep paralysis is different, chronic and more intense is different.

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Speaker 2: The way we few it in the black community is different.

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Speaker 2: We are strong black women, and so to be anxious

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Speaker 2: is to be weak, and to be weak and a

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Speaker 2: black woman is an xymoron. So people mislabel or hide

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Speaker 2: the fact that they are anxiety and the other pieces

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Speaker 2: that they just think. People don't know what to call it.

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Speaker 2: They got issues, they got bad nerves, they're about to

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Speaker 2: lose their mind up and hear up and here you

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Speaker 2: know these kinds of things. But it's anxiety. And the

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Speaker 2: fact is is that anxiety is treatable, and that aspects

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Speaker 2: of the Black community, or aspects of being black and female,

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Speaker 2: places at risk higher risk for anxiety. So things like

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Speaker 2: the acting white accusation places at highest risk or social anxiety,

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Speaker 2: things like colorism and texturism places at risk for panic

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Speaker 2: attacks and social anxiety. So there are things that are

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Speaker 2: just natural or natural parts of the black community or

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Speaker 2: being black and female that contribute to our risk for anxiety,

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Speaker 2: and we just don't talk about it. We don't tend

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Speaker 2: to learn about those in with our studies of an

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Speaker 2: anxiety or when we're talking about anxiety, just stop refiud.

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Speaker 1: So today we wanted to talk specifically about flight anxiety.

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Speaker 1: Oh so, what have you done in terms of work

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Speaker 1: and kind of researching, if anything, around black women in

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Speaker 1: flight anxiety?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, there are about twenty five million people

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Speaker 2: who was called aerophobia or flight anxiety, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we all, I think all of us have somebody in

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Speaker 2: our family or maybe more than somebody, more than one,

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Speaker 2: somebody in our family who will not fly. I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen any data on how many about twenty five million

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Speaker 2: people are black women, but I would say that there

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Speaker 2: are a number of us who have this fear of flying.

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Speaker 1: And can you talk about some of the signs and

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Speaker 1: symptoms of that, doctor Niomonnette, Like, how do we know

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Speaker 1: what's just natural kind of nervousness about flying versus something

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Speaker 1: that would, like me be meat criteria for aerophobia.

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Speaker 2: It's preventing you from doing something that you want to do.

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Speaker 2: It's preventing you from getting on that plane and going

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Speaker 2: to someone's graduation, or going to someone's wedding, or going

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Speaker 2: to the family reunion. Then it's a problem. It is

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Speaker 2: and a phobia. It is an anxiety disorder. If we

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Speaker 2: have to get drunk to fly and then pass out

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Speaker 2: on the plane, that's the symptom that our anxiety is

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Speaker 2: off the charts and is in phobia territory. If we

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Speaker 2: have ever begged people to let us off the plane,

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Speaker 2: to not go this way, to drive us to this event,

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Speaker 2: then that's a symptom of it be out of the

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Speaker 2: norm of it being at phobic level. The good news

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Speaker 2: is that we can treat flight anxiety so that you

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Speaker 2: can fly fearlessly or you could fly less afraid.

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Speaker 1: And what does that treatment look like.

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Speaker 2: It's a combination of things. So one of the first

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Speaker 2: things is education. I mean, many of us really don't

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Speaker 2: understand how planes work, and planes are incredibly safe, and

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Speaker 2: so there's education about how planes work, what a pilot does,

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Speaker 2: where the best place to sit is all those kinds

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Speaker 2: of things. Also looking at okay, what are your triggers?

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Speaker 2: So what is it that makes you afraid to fly?

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Speaker 2: Can you get on a plane? Too? Many reasons why

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Speaker 2: people are afraid to fly. Being in that closed in

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Speaker 2: space for a long period of time is scary. It's scary.

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Speaker 2: So we're kind of claustrophobic around that, or we already

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Speaker 2: have panic attacks and we are afraid that on that

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Speaker 2: plane we are going to have a panic attack, we

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Speaker 2: are going to be unable to get out or to

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Speaker 2: get help. And one of the things that you know

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Speaker 2: is that if that is occurring, flight attendants are trained

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Speaker 2: to help anguishous flyers. They're trained to help people who

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Speaker 2: maybe having a panic attack on the brain, and so

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Speaker 2: it's very simple just to ask or tell the flight

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Speaker 2: attendant what is happening. So we're afraid, either were plaustrophobic,

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Speaker 2: or we have triggers. We've heard some story and we've

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Speaker 2: internalized that. You know, so and so on this plane

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Speaker 2: in Newark and you know Clanes in Newark fall out

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Speaker 2: of the sky. So or we took a flight and

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Speaker 2: it was it was tome or it was scary to us,

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Speaker 2: and we said, never getting back on I'm never getting

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Speaker 2: back on a plane. So education, okay, Understanding the triggers, okay,

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Speaker 2: learning something called cognitive behavioral therapy, which I know you've

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Speaker 2: talked about frequently on your show, exposure therapy, okay, Deep breathing,

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Speaker 2: grounding five four three two one. You start to feel

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Speaker 2: nervous on the long plane, you think you're going to

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Speaker 2: have a panic attack, you think you're going to die.

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Speaker 2: So you look for five things on the plane that

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Speaker 2: were gray, and four things in the plane that are blue,

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Speaker 2: and three things that are red, at two things that

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Speaker 2: are white, and one thing that is black. And as

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Speaker 2: you ground yourself, what you find is that anxiety dissipates

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Speaker 2: because you're staying in a moment. So those are some

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Speaker 2: of the things that you can do around flight anxisnciety

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Speaker 2: and all the airlines also have programs that you can

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Speaker 2: take around flight anxiety, and you can fly to the

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Speaker 2: support person. So although it is easier to avoid flying, okay,

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Speaker 2: what it means for the love going across the country,

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Speaker 2: or everybody who's waiting for you at the wedding, or

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Speaker 2: for that dream trip that you always always wanted to

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Speaker 2: go on. Doing those very simple things can allow you

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Speaker 2: to be with the people you want to be with

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Speaker 2: in places that you want to be and there's no

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Speaker 2: center shame in saying, you know, flight anxiety the center

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Speaker 2: and shame comes when you hide it and you can't be.

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Speaker 1: There for the people you So that's word. And I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad that you brought up the Newark example, right,

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Speaker 1: because I think that that is something that is making

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Speaker 1: anxiety around flying a little more prevalent for people. Both

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Speaker 1: the situation in Newerk, but I think overall, just like

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Speaker 1: the FAA, right, and like the lack of trust in

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Speaker 1: you know, like the government right now, what do you

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Speaker 1: say about that? And because I think sometimes we know information,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't necessarily mean that, like we don't have

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Speaker 1: anxiety about it, right, And I.

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Speaker 2: Said, that's where the education is so important. To understand

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Speaker 2: what exactly happened at Newark, to understand how often that happens,

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Speaker 2: to understand the other safeguards that are in place. And

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Speaker 2: it is natural after hearing about Newark, after we have

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Speaker 2: those series of plane accidents, that people would become anxious

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Speaker 2: and frightened to fly. That is a normal reaction, Okay.

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Speaker 2: What is not a normal reaction is to allow it

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Speaker 2: to prevent you from doing the things that you want

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Speaker 2: to do, the things that you were meant to do,

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Speaker 2: and if it's doing that shelp is available to take

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Speaker 2: that first step and take that first step when you're anxious.

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Speaker 2: Is they're really really hard, but you have to do so.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned exposure therapy as something that is I feel

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Speaker 1: like one of the goal standard treatments for something like

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Speaker 1: flann anxiety. Can you talk to us more in depth

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Speaker 1: about like what exposure therapy specifically related to flying looks like?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So there are two forms of exposure therapy. One

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Speaker 2: is gradual and the other is called flooding. And flooding

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Speaker 2: is a lot like what happened when my attivvy learned

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Speaker 2: to swim. Her cousins took her down and they threw

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Speaker 2: her in the water. Once she went down twice, and

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Speaker 2: then that she was getting ready to go down for

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Speaker 2: the third time, she realized that if she just went

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Speaker 2: with the flow of the river, everything would be okay.

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Speaker 2: And that's what flooding is. I mean, it's this intense

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Speaker 2: one time exposure, one time type of thing. Add again

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Speaker 2: she realize is that your anxiety can only go so

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Speaker 2: far and then it comes down in graduated exposure. What

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Speaker 2: happens is that we build a hierarchy. So what's the

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Speaker 2: thing you can do on a plane about flying that

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Speaker 2: gives you the least anxiety. So it might be just

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Speaker 2: going to the airport and standing on the tarbac or

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Speaker 2: it might be going to the gate. Okay, And then

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Speaker 2: we go from the thing that gives you the least

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Speaker 2: anxiety to the thing that gives you the highest anxiety.

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Speaker 2: And slowly but surely we work our way up this

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Speaker 2: hierarchy till we are doing the highest things, to be

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Speaker 2: getting on a plane and going from point A to

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Speaker 2: point B.

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Speaker 1: Now, how do you decide whether you would use flooding

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Speaker 1: versus something like gradual exposure?

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Speaker 2: If most people do gradual exposure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking, like it feels like a little traumatic

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Speaker 1: to like just get on a plane and fly across

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Speaker 1: the country.

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Speaker 2: The people who will flood you who haven't, you know,

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Speaker 2: they say I got this, you know this one session

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Speaker 2: exposure therapy session, and so they do that. But most

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Speaker 2: people will do it gradually, and they'll combine it so

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Speaker 2: it'll be psycho education. So you're doing the exposure, but

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Speaker 2: you're also being educated about airplanes and flights and all

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Speaker 2: of those types of things.

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Speaker 1: And what does this look like? You weren't it because airports,

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Speaker 1: I mean especially nowadays, are not something that you can

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Speaker 1: easily just go to to do like an env BO

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Speaker 1: kind of exposure. So when you're working with a therapist,

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Speaker 1: like how are you getting access to an airplane to

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Speaker 1: even do some of this treatment?

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Speaker 2: There are many therapists to have virtual reality, virtual reality

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Speaker 2: virtually in the plant basically. And then again, all of

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Speaker 2: the major airlines have a fear of flying or a

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Speaker 2: anxious flyer program, so you can do their program as well,

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Speaker 2: so it's not that hard to have you simulate or

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Speaker 2: be part of the airport and be part of being

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Speaker 2: on a plane etcentric.

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Speaker 1: I was not aware that the airlines had anxious flyer programs.

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Speaker 1: Can you say more about that? Are they all virtual

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Speaker 1: or do you go to the airport to participation?

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Speaker 2: Were actually irl in real life? And remember twenty five

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Speaker 2: million people have aerophobia, so it's in their best interest.

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Speaker 2: It increases their bottom line if they can get more

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Speaker 2: people to fly. And I can also think about I

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Speaker 2: don't know about you, doctor Joy, but I was never

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Speaker 2: on an airplane until I was twenty two years old.

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Speaker 2: So remember there are a whole bunch of people out there,

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Speaker 2: my generation and Gen X and who just have maybe

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Speaker 2: have never been on a plane or didn't go on

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Speaker 2: a plane till later in life. Maybe my daughter was

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Speaker 2: flying at two and a half. But again, for some people,

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Speaker 2: airplane flying is just not a natural part of what

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Speaker 2: they have done. And so also you have to also

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Speaker 2: consider that when you think about anxiety around flying, I've

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Speaker 2: never done it. More maybe I flew when my thirties

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Speaker 2: and now I'm fifty, and you know, I haven't clothes

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Speaker 2: into that, So there's that unfamiliarity with flying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you bring up a good point in that it

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily like a natural part of a lot

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Speaker 1: of people's lives. Because I also think that that makes

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Speaker 1: it easy to avoid, right, like that you could just

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Speaker 1: drive most places, right, And so if it is something

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Speaker 1: that you're afraid of, you do have to take that

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Speaker 1: extra step to actually put yourself in proximity to the

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Speaker 1: thing that makes you anxious.

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Speaker 2: And again I want to stress you don't have to

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Speaker 2: live here and there there are enough therapists out there

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Speaker 2: who do this where you can have that experience and

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Speaker 2: really overcome your fear of flying. And again it will

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Speaker 2: stress alcohol, benadriyll drugs. You know, you just wake up

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Speaker 2: and you're just hung over. It's still anxious. It really

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Speaker 2: is doing with steps so that you can become a

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Speaker 2: less anxious flier. M.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned the five four three two one exercise,

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Speaker 1: which is one of our favorite exercises around here. Are

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Speaker 1: there other techniques that you offer people or that people

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Speaker 1: can look into to help them maybe manage a panic attack,

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Speaker 1: because you mentioned that as one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: people may be afraid to fry and then they're worried

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Speaker 1: they're going to have a panic attack. So what other

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Speaker 1: strategies can they use for that?

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Speaker 2: Sure, Remember we've become anxious, we start to eat shallow

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Speaker 2: breathing okay, so we're breathing from our chest. So exercise

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Speaker 2: is we're breathing from our die aphraim okay, and learning

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Speaker 2: to do that and taking those deep reps to center ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Remember most of us have never experienced a panic attack

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Speaker 2: at its fullest. We avoid the situation, okay. So one

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Speaker 2: of the things is to remind ourselves that it's just

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Speaker 2: a panic attack and it only goes so high and

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Speaker 2: then down. We teach what they call musical cognitive restructury,

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Speaker 2: so that when you're starting to feel anxious, we keep

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Speaker 2: people to write their own theme song. So they take

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Speaker 2: their current favorite song and they rewrite the lyrics in

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Speaker 2: terms of being This is other things they do in between,

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Speaker 2: but they rewrite the lyrics in terms of being less

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Speaker 2: anxious or unafraid. And then we have the record their

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Speaker 2: theme songs so they can play it on their phoe

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Speaker 2: as they're getting ready to fly. So they're hearing the

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Speaker 2: music that they've written that pushes out that anxious, panicky

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Speaker 2: thought and replaces it with this neutral or this positive thought.

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Speaker 2: Now they again centers them and calms them. And as

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Speaker 2: you know, there are tons of apps out there, so

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Speaker 2: any of the mindfulness apps can be very helpful, or

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Speaker 2: our meditation apps can be very helpful. On a point.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So, Dophanie Barnett,

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Speaker 1: I know I don't need to tell you that you've

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Speaker 1: already talked about like experiences with things like racism of

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Speaker 1: course make it difficult to be in lots of different

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Speaker 1: places for black people, and I think airplanes and airports

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Speaker 1: are no different. Can you talk about like the experiences

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Speaker 1: of racism that might impact what anxiety looks like as

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Speaker 1: it relates to flight anxiety.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you we alder estimate the role okay,

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Speaker 2: racism in anxiety, whether we're talking about micro aggressions or

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Speaker 2: whether we're talking about over racism. One of the things

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Speaker 2: that the research says is in the altost every Black American

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Speaker 2: in this country deals with racism on a daily basis, okay,

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Speaker 2: And so we are in that fight wood almost on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis, and that places us at higher risk

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Speaker 2: for anxiety. And some of that is protective and some

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Speaker 2: of that is not protective and gets us into disorder territory.

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Speaker 2: And now you've talked about this that a positive, strong

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Speaker 2: racial identity is a protective factor for some aspects of racism.

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Speaker 2: But when it's daily kind though, it just kind of

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Speaker 2: chips away at you. And that's why it becomes very

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Speaker 2: important that we practice some of the things that you

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Speaker 2: talk about in your book, in terms of sister circles,

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Speaker 2: in terms of courts setting, in terms of really protecting

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Speaker 2: our spirits on a daily basis, because if we don't,

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Speaker 2: the anxiety is going to take And I think we

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Speaker 2: forget that there are many black women who work or

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Speaker 2: live in segregated spaces, I mean where the only black

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Speaker 2: person in their department or in their division, and some

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Speaker 2: of us are the only black person in the building.

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Speaker 2: And what that means and what someone might call benign

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Speaker 2: racism that they face again places you at risk. What

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Speaker 2: happens when you look around and you see nobody who

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Speaker 2: looks like you, and what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: And you're internalizing those messages about being twice as good,

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Speaker 2: to go half as far. You're internalizing those messages about

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Speaker 2: you representing the race. All those kinds of things again

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Speaker 2: increase that risk or social anxiety. And for some people

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Speaker 2: we're talking about generalized anxiety because they begin to worry

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Speaker 2: about everything and they what if this happens, and what

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Speaker 2: if that happens? And whatst other people think? Again, I

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Speaker 2: think in the research that we have downplayed the roles

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Speaker 2: of racism in anxiety. We don't think about it in

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Speaker 2: terms of depression. But it is from and center in

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Speaker 2: anxiety and wash and any black women and the kimp.

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Speaker 2: You can look around on the plane and how many

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Speaker 2: black folks are there? I'm starting to feel this way

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Speaker 2: and oh my godness, goodness, I don't see any other

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Speaker 2: black folks on the plane, So or what do I do?

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Speaker 2: And again, there's nothing wrong, will stand, no shame you're.

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Speaker 1: Asking, mm hmm. You know you mentioned doctor Neymarnet like

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Speaker 1: this idea of performance, and I think about I've heard

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Speaker 1: stories of people thinking that they need to dress a

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Speaker 1: particular way or present a certain way, specifically maybe if

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Speaker 1: they're sitting in like a first class seat, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: so this idea of like showing that I am supposed

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Speaker 1: to be here, right and so what role do you

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Speaker 1: feel like that maybe plays in shaping anxiety.

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Speaker 2: In the first class may not help with flight anxiety

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Speaker 2: if the triggers and all those kinds of things, and

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Speaker 2: if you're worried about a plane crashing, that you want

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Speaker 2: to be sitting in the safest part of the plane,

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Speaker 2: which may or may not be first class re success,

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Speaker 2: it's over the wing that is the safest place. Again,

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Speaker 2: trying to be something you're not anywhere plane or not

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Speaker 2: never works out. Well, this is what I will say,

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Speaker 2: But that just adds to the anxiety that you are feeling.

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Speaker 2: It just builds up and in some cases it could

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Speaker 2: make it worse. I answer the question for.

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Speaker 1: You, yeah, yeah, And you also mentioned Okay, I'm on

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Speaker 1: this plane and I realized there are not a lot

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Speaker 1: of other black people on the plane. What role do

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Speaker 1: you feel like representation has in terms of maybe flight

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Speaker 1: attendants and pilots in helping to manage any anxiety that

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Speaker 1: you might be feeling as a black person.

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Speaker 2: I know you hear this too. It's people say I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling want a black therapist. I wasn't black. Okay. How

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Speaker 2: many someone who looks like you on the plane that

436
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: you reach out for help is often in itself reduces

437
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: the anxiety. Don't re hear somebody black if you know,

438
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: I know they're going to help me as opposed to

439
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: the pharma black woman and the nearest flight attendant is

440
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: a white male. Do I want to ask representation matters

441
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: and because our beliefs is that they will understand at

442
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: that black left you know, it's not just flight anxiety,

443
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: it's I'm a black woman with flight anxiety and what

444
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: all of that means, you know, both spoken and unspoken.

445
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: I love that you offer the example of the music

446
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: kind of therapy, like rewriting the lyrics to your favorite

447
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: song is something that can help with anxiety. Are there

448
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: mantras or things that you think could be helpful for

449
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: people who are anxious flyers, that they could repeat to themselves.

450
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: Sure, I think mantras are always helpful, and again I

451
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: think if you can listen unto them, because again, when

452
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: you're anxious. On the reason we use music is because

453
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: when you're anxious, words go out the window, but you

454
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: can always remember a song. So I think with launtrast

455
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: what you want you want to have the recorded or

456
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: you want to use an app so that you can

457
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: hear them over and over again. So something that look

458
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: at me, I'm flying, I'm going to young, I'm flying

459
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: by bring free of fear. I cannot wait to see

460
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: doctor joy when that lay up. Something like that, you know,

461
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: or I am a less fearful fly. All those kinds

462
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: of things certainly make a difference, because remember what keeps

463
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: us anxious on that plane? After the physical symptoms we

464
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: good physical symptoms, right, but after they dissipate, So after

465
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: they go away, what keeps us anxious is our mind.

466
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 2: And so our thinking has to change or has to

467
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: be different, or different thoughts have to be going on,

468
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: you know, have to be going on your mind. Oh

469
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: my god, this slighty's going to crash and I do

470
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: my sill war the other underwear, but or look at me,

471
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: I'm flying tree.

472
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: You know.

473
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: So if we can change the thoughts, we reduce the anxiety.

474
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: So you mentioned Warne that like grounding can also be

475
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: really helpful. And I know some of the things we

476
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: talk about in terms of grounding or maybe playing with

477
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: something like Plato, are there other items that maybe somebody

478
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: could pack in a little kit for themselves that might

479
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: help them to stay grounded.

480
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: Sure. One of the things that people do is they

481
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: use icy hots. What those are those? Okay? And so

482
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: the sensation of cold, because cold or hot with it.

483
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: If you start to feel anxious and then you put

484
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: that cold on you, I mean, then jolke you back

485
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: to the here and now come. It is another thing.

486
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: Plus it helps with your ears if your ears pop

487
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: on the plane. You've talked about play dough, something where

488
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: you can really anything where you can use your five

489
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: senses in terms of brownding works really well. I always

490
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: tell the story about the old folks in church. Do

491
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: you remember the old folks at church? And they would

492
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: always have a peppermint or a butter it is, and

493
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: they would always give it and if you think about

494
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: that who they could give the peppermint or the butterscotch too,

495
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: But using a peppermint or a butterscotch, a piece of

496
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: candy and using your five senses, what does it feel like,

497
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: what does it smell like, what does it taste like?

498
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: So use Those old folks were ahead of their time

499
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: in terms of therapy because they knew that what that

500
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: candy did was allowed that person to be ground and

501
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 2: ground that person. So those are other things that.

502
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 3: You can use.

503
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: Mh. It sounded like you were starting to offer some

504
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: distraction strategies. Also, what role does distraction have in managing anxiety?

505
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Well, it could be and particularly from flight anxiety, So

506
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: you know, reading a book, doing puzzles, those kinds of

507
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: things can be helpful for flight anxiety. The other thing

508
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: I want to say, because I talked about alcohol and

509
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: drugs and bendern and all of that, but it's also

510
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: so important to stay away from caffeine if you're flying okay,

511
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: because caffeine increases anxiety. It increases those sensations. And so

512
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: if you're going to fly and you are a nervous

513
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: flyer or somebody who is getting a for your fear

514
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: of flying. No caffeine, coffee, coke, Pepsi, Dr Pepper, anything orange, Phanta,

515
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: anything with caffeine is a big no because it will

516
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: increase the anxiety and cessations.

517
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: Oh that's a very helpful, tim, Thank you for sharing that.

518
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: Are there other things like that that you think nervous

519
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: flyers should know?

520
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: You're done alone? I mean you're not the only nervous

521
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: on the plane. Okay. Probably a quarter of the people

522
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: on the plane are a nervous flyer, So you are

523
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: not as what one what? There is nothing wrong with

524
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: you because you are a nervous flyer or because you

525
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: are afraid of flying. You are simply anxious, and anxiety

526
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: can be treated in the work.

527
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much that, doctor Neil Bournette. Please let

528
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: us know where can we stay connected with you. What

529
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: is your website as well as any social media channels

530
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: you'd like to share?

531
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: Okay, the website is doctor Angelinneil dot com. I am

532
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: also a professor at Kent State University, and so if

533
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: you go on the Psychological sciences website, it will take

534
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: you to my research website as well.

535
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: Perfect We'll be sure to include that in our show notes.

536
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. For spending some time with us today.

537
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I really appreciated what doctor Neil Burnette

538
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: shared about navigating the emotional challenges of flying, especially her

539
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: insights on how those challenges can particularly affect our community.

540
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: To round out the conversation, I'm now joined by Isaiah Peters.

541
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: He began his career as a flight attendant with a

542
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: major US airline back in twenty eighteen, and today he's

543
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: focused on improving the passenger experience on a broader level.

544
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: He's sharing tips for managing flightings from an insider's perspective.

545
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: That's up next. Well, thank you so much for joining

546
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: us today, Isaaiya.

547
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me pleasure to be here.

548
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. So what drew you to a

549
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: career as a flight attendant?

550
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: So it's fun of you asked this. I tell the

551
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 3: story all the time, but it was actually my mother.

552
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 3: I was working in corporate America, wasn't truly satisfied. And

553
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: one day I was with my mom and she said,

554
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 3: you know, you'd make a great flight attendant. And I'm like, no,

555
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. She's like, you love to travel, you fly

556
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 3: all the time for work. And so one day I

557
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: came home, saw a major air alarm was hiring, and

558
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 3: I said, let's just let's just give it a try.

559
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 3: So I applied around Thanksgiving break that November, didn't hear

560
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 3: anything till February, and before I knew it, I was

561
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: going through the interview process and going a flight attendant

562
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: training and city in a jump seat. So just truly,

563
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 3: I tell people listening to my.

564
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: Mom as we all should, right, they know best.

565
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 3: So that is the story.

566
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you were flying quite a bit

567
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: even before becoming a flight attendant. How would you describe

568
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: your relationships to flying before you were flight attendant?

569
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: So growing up I love to travel, but just didn't

570
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: necessarily always have the means or my family just wasn't

571
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: big into traveling. Went on a couple of domestic trips

572
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: here or there. But I think as I started to

573
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 3: kind of gain my wings, as I say on my

574
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: own in college, I started booking trips. I started putting

575
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 3: my coins together and visiting friends as they graduated and

576
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: moved across the country, going on birthday trips, things of

577
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: that nature. And so that kind of developed my relationship

578
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: with the sky, as I like to say, And it

579
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: kind of drew me to wanting to tap into aviation

580
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: and see what's out there.

581
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: So, you know, we've heard that flight attendant training can

582
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: be pretty intense. I feel like there was even a

583
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: reality show at some point that kind of attract people

584
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: as they were going through one attended training. So what

585
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: are the parts that are most intent and like, how

586
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: did you manage your own mental health as you were

587
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: in training?

588
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely, the training is intended. Say, it looks

589
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 3: different for different people. Airlines offer different things to their

590
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: potential candidates during training, like Frans and some airlines they

591
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 3: may not pay you, but they feed you very well.

592
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: Usually your housing is always covered. My particular airline they

593
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: paid us, but we still had to manage things at home.

594
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 3: A lot of people have left their jobs and devoted

595
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: a lot to this career and so that in a

596
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 3: sense makes it tough. But the other part of it

597
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: is just it's a lot of information and a short

598
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: amount of time. So typically your training will be anywhere

599
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 3: for six to eight weeks, some people slightly longer, but

600
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: six eight weeks it's usually the range that people experience

601
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 3: in training, and you're away from your home. Most people

602
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: don't live where they are training, and so it's just

603
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: it's stressful. It's just a lot of information and a

604
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 3: short amount of time, and for me, I just I

605
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: kind of have to lock in and just stay focused.

606
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: But also it was about balance, So I stayed in

607
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 3: communication with people who knew I was on this journey,

608
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: stayed close with a couple of people who I know

609
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: worked in the profession, who were flight attendants or even

610
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: just worked in aviation. And then my relationship with God.

611
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: So those were the key things I did to kind

612
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: of protect my mental health. Just focused on the goal,

613
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: thought about the outcome and what it would bring me

614
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 3: versus what I was going through at that time.

615
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you said it was a lot of information,

616
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: so what I mean, of course, and goodness to everything

617
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: that you've learned, but like overall, what kinds of things

618
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: are you learning to become a flight attendant?

619
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 3: Fast range of things. So I always tell people it's

620
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 3: all the things you kind of never want to appen.

621
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 3: It's what you learn in training. You touch on service,

622
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: you learn the service elements, the beverage service, even down

623
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 3: to international flights, the meal service and things of that nature.

624
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: But training is really the focal point of all the

625
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: things you never want to happen, So you're learning the

626
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: biggest thing is how to evacuate each type of aircraft

627
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: in ninety second or less, which is the FA requirement.

628
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 3: And depending on which airline you work for, you may

629
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: have multiple fleet types, so they're different doors with different operations,

630
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: and different jump seat locations. Jump seats are where the

631
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: flight attendant's sit, so there are different locations on the aircraft.

632
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: So you're learning where that emergency equipment is, how to

633
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: operate it, how to evacuate, how do I evacuate on land,

634
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: how do I evacuate on water? And then in turn

635
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 3: medical conditions. We always say with medical conditions, it's not

636
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: about if you'll have one, it's a matter of wind.

637
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: So how do you manage that. If someone has a seizure,

638
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: someone passes out, if someone just has extreme anxiety and

639
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: doesn't know how to common cope, how do you manage that.

640
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: So that's kind of the basis of what training is,

641
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: all the things that you don't want to happen and

642
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 3: how to be ready for them.

643
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: That's helpful perspective because I mean, of course we think

644
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: about like flight attendants, you know, making sure that the

645
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: flight feels comfortable and like taking care of us, right,

646
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: But really your job is to if something, you know,

647
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: hits the wall, then you are the ones that are

648
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: responsible for making sure that people are even to evacuate.

649
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: Like how do you take care of emergencies basically in

650
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: the air right exactly?

651
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 3: And our add to that is, like, the pilot has

652
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 3: a very important job, but we always learned the pilot's

653
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 3: job is to fly the plane. Our job as flight

654
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: attendants and professionals is to manage the cabin and what

655
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 3: can we do to take care of the cabin in

656
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: case of an emergency because the pilot has an extremely

657
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 3: important job to fly the plane. So in the end,

658
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 3: the flight attendants are safety professionals. Yes, we want to

659
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 3: make sure you have a clean, comfortable flight, but our

660
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 3: job is safety. Got it?

661
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: Got it? So you know, this conversation really is all

662
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: about like flight anxiety. And I think in the past

663
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: year or so, when there have been more and more accidents,

664
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, people's anxiety I think about flying has increased.

665
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of people one of

666
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: the things that gives them the most anxiety is turbulence.

667
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: So what can you tell us about turbulence and how

668
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: do we maybe manage our anxiety when we are experiencing turbulence.

669
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so turbulence, as you know, as you stated, is

670
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: one of the most common things that you experience in flight,

671
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: and you can experience no turbulence to extreme turbulence. So

672
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: the way we learned turbulence and training in the way

673
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 3: that I've begin to socialize it with my friends and

674
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: my family and just colleagues and people in general, is

675
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: that we know we categorize turbulence into four types, so

676
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 3: we kind of have your regular turbulence are what we

677
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 3: call clear air turbulence. That's just kind of your initial

678
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 3: climb into the sky or your initial descent. You're going

679
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 3: to experience probably a little shaking here or there, and

680
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: then from there you've got kind of like what we

681
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: call your standard turbulence. It's not the quite correct terminology,

682
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 3: but we reference it as standard turbulence, just kind of

683
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: your general shake. It's not anything for a cause of concern.

684
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 3: You usually can walk during this turbulence, but you might

685
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 3: need to hold on to the seats just to make

686
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 3: sure that you are able to move about the cabin safely.

687
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: We often suggest doing modern turbulence, that customers stay seated,

688
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: that they don't move around, but someone need sees the

689
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 3: bathroom where there is an emergency or that they need

690
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 3: to get to a bathroom or something of that nature.

691
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 3: Then usually it's fine, But then we move into severe turbulence.

692
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: So severe turbulence is more so where no one should

693
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: be up, so everyone should be seated. There's a bit

694
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 3: more of a shake, the pilot has control of the plane,

695
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 3: but it's advised that everyone remains seated, and then we've

696
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: got what we call extreme turbulence. And extreme turbulence is

697
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: when it's the plane is out of control essentially, which

698
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 3: is very rare. But when we get into extreme turbulence,

699
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: we start to think of things as like structural damage,

700
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 3: which is just damage to the aircraft where the pieces

701
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 3: of that metal have begin to separate, and then, as

702
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: you know, due to the cabin pressure is a cause

703
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 3: for possible danger. So that's kind of the breakdown of

704
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: how we categorize turbulence.

705
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: And what is the flight attendant's kind of response across

706
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: the varieties of turbulence, Because if everybody else is supposed

707
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: to be seated, y'all are supposed to be.

708
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: Seated as well, right right, yeah, I think some people

709
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: forget that we're humans too. So I've had quite a

710
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: few colleagues who have, unfortunately have been injured, and it's

711
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 3: usually due to some form of turbulence. But our response

712
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: typically is to one make a general announcement. So usually

713
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 3: when you hit that turbulence, if the seatbelt sign is off,

714
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: the captain or the first officer in the flight deck

715
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 3: will make a simple announcement. Usually they say seat belts please,

716
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 3: that's it so and that seatbelt sign will come on,

717
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: and so that's your indication that we're the well, I'll say,

718
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: the flight attendant indication that we are likely going to

719
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: hit some rough air. He may have already communicated that

720
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: to us via interphone just where we can hear customers hearing.

721
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: So that's one way. The other way is he may

722
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: come on and say, hey, in fifteen to thirty minutes,

723
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 3: we might experience some ruff fair just i'd like everyone

724
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: to stay seated. He may even go further and say, hey,

725
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: I will also ask the crew to stay seated, and

726
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 3: that's kind of our indication to know to stay seated.

727
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 3: And he may give a timeline and say hey, for

728
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: about thirty minutes about forty five minutes the next hour,

729
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: we might experience some ruff fair. So usually it's usually

730
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: by that crew what we call crew communication, whether that's

731
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 3: captain the crew, or a captain to the entire captain

732
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 3: or if we begin to hear hit rughfair, the flight

733
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 3: attendant and may pick up the innerphone and make an

734
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: announcement even without the captain communicating anything, because everyone can

735
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: feel that turbulence.

736
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always been appreciative when the captain or you know,

737
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,479
Speaker 1: somebody comes on and let us know that it's coming,

738
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: because I think it is more shocking when you're just like,

739
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 1: oh my god's what's happening right exactly?

740
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: I mean. And there are times because we brief with

741
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: the captain beforehand, you know, we'll brief with them, he'll

742
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 3: kind of give us an update of this is what

743
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: the route is. And if it's a flight later in

744
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: the day, they've collected all that data from earlier flights

745
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 3: who have taken that same route, and so they're able

746
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 3: to kind of give us some contextual data of how

747
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 3: the flight has gone on that route throughout the day,

748
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 3: and they may say, hey, it's a smooth ride, but

749
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: whether changes. Things change, so sometimes they'll tell us it's

750
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 3: a smooth ride. We get out there with the carts

751
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: and then we start shaking and we're like, what's going on.

752
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: So definitely appreciate that communication. But that's one of the

753
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 3: biggest ways. And doctor Jordan, the other thing I'll add

754
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: is us communicating with each other. We know certain things like,

755
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 3: for instance, the back of the aircraft is a tabby

756
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: bumpier than the front portion of the aircraft. So we

757
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: also know just certain routes like whenever I'm flying over

758
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 3: Salt Lake City somewhere in California, anytime I hit mountains,

759
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 3: I can expect turbulence. So just kind of knowing some

760
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 3: nuances also helps with our communication. And Atlanta, in places

761
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: where there are thunderstorms we call them the thunderstorms of

762
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 3: the South or all the way up to the East coast,

763
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: we know if the weather looks bad, we're probably gonna

764
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 3: hit some bumps. So just also just kind of knowing

765
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: your routes, knowing some geographical things, and just using your

766
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: best judgment comes into play.

767
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's helpful to know, so that the back

768
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: of the plane is typically a little BUMPI er so

769
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: that maybe like if you are somebody who's particularly sensitive,

770
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: you may not want to have seats all the way

771
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: in the back right, Like are there other things that

772
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: you can talk about in terms of like how to

773
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: choose the best seat for yourself if you are maybe

774
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: sensitive to turbulence or other things.

775
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: So I would say I always advise people because I

776
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: know people experience motion sickness and this maybe I know brainer,

777
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 3: but I think sometimes people underestimate what they eat before flights.

778
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: Just be mindful of your alcohol intake, know yourself, know

779
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: what you should eat. One of the common things as

780
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: flight attendants we hear about is sushi, and we've experienced

781
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: We've had customers who'll eat sushi in the airport and

782
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 3: then maybe have a few alcoholic beverages, and then we

783
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 3: may hit some turbulence and we're either handing in the

784
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: gray bag as we call them, or where making sure

785
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 3: they can get to the bathroom safely so that they

786
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: can take care of their needs. Be mindful of what

787
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 3: you eat, Just be mindful of the weather. Just know

788
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 3: yourself how you feel when you fly. On the picture

789
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: of yourself in the best situation possible. I would say

790
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: picking your seat it's hit or missed. I would say, definitely,

791
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: the back of the aircraft is bumpier, but I wouldn't

792
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say, hey, that's going to you know, necessarily

793
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 3: be the solution. Always got it, got it.

794
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: So you mentioned that a part of your training is

795
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: to kind of help people who are experiencing anxiety. Now,

796
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that maybe tells for

797
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: you or things that you're paying attention to as a

798
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 1: flight attendant about customers who might be anxious.

799
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 3: So typically I try not to read in too much

800
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: because some people are just they're just observant. And I've

801
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 3: had some his scenarios where I thought maybe someone was

802
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 3: nervous and they were like, I'm fine, just looking around.

803
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: But I definitely have noticed customers who have been nervous.

804
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 3: I look at, you know, tapping of the feet. I

805
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: look at just kind of the wandering eyes. I look

806
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: at One of the typical things that they'll do is

807
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 3: they'll look outside the window to kind of see what's

808
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: going on, things of that nature. But the biggest thing

809
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: I'll say is that I look for the customer to

810
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: kind of make eye contact with me. I will say

811
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: that's the biggest a big thing when you hit turbulence.

812
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 3: Usually if you are seated somewhere like in a jump seat,

813
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 3: by a door or another part of the plane where

814
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 3: you're visible and not within the galley, the customer can see,

815
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 3: so they'll make eye contact with you. And one of

816
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 3: the biggest things is I'll either smile, not like hey,

817
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: this is fun or anything like that, but just kind

818
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 3: of say, hey, you're okay, like you know, maybe mouth

819
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: are you okay, but I'll say, doctor Jorge. One of

820
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 3: the biggest things is to keep a straight face. And

821
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: sometimes it's tough because, like I said, we're human too,

822
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 3: so we're experiencing what may be moderate to severe turbulence,

823
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 3: and you know, you kind of want to react. But

824
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 3: I've kind of trained myself to sometimes keep a straight

825
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 3: face to kind of look, make our contact with them,

826
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: not stand down with just be very direct, kind of

827
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 3: let them know, hey, I'm good. And then I've noticed

828
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 3: people will calm down, you know, because they see, well,

829
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 3: the flight attendant doesn't seem to be faced, you know,

830
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 3: so I guess we are okay.

831
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 2: Isaiah.

832
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: This is not what I wanted to hear, because I

833
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: don't want to know that you got a poker face,

834
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: because I'm definitely am one of those people, like, if

835
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: it gets termine, I'm like, okay.

836
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 2: Where's the flight attendant?

837
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: Are they looking cool? But you're saying that of course, right,

838
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: Like you are not wanting to make people more anxious,

839
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: So mostly you are going to give like a straight

840
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: face or maybe a little you know, knowing glance kind

841
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: of thing, but mostly not reacted.

842
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I don't want to make it more dramatic

843
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: than it is. And not to say it's not dramatic.

844
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 3: I mean again, if it's severe and we're rocking all

845
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: through the sky, that's a little bit different. I'm human too,

846
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 3: I'm experiencing this with you, but it's it's also just

847
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 3: remaining calm. Maybe not a poker face the joint print.

848
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 3: I give you a smile or nod, but I just

849
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 3: want to be as calm as possible to let that

850
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: customer though, hey we're okay.

851
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: M hm. So yeah, So maybe outside of kind of

852
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: like level three and four turbulence, maybe people just kind

853
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: of experiencing anxiety just because it's in anxiety provoking situations sometimes.

854
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: What kinds of things do flight attendants do to help

855
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: customers manage anxiety.

856
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: So I think the biggest thing is, especially if you

857
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: see a customer who is experiencing, like you know, just

858
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: extreme anxiety or is busimply shaken by turbulence, it's more

859
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 3: so just about having that direct customer interaction, that direct contact.

860
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: So you've probably seen the new stories are seeing the

861
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 3: viral social media post where a flight attendant is praised

862
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: for going to a customer and kind of having a

863
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: direct conversation with them to assure them. So we do

864
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 3: a lot of that where we will go to that customer,

865
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 3: have a direct conversation with them, reassure them. We have

866
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: devices where we can communicate with the flight deck, so

867
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 3: sometimes it's saying, hey, you know, I just talked to

868
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: the captain, this is what's going on. You're going to

869
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: be okay. It's really that direct interaction that helps those

870
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 3: customers with anxiety with flying. The other things are kind

871
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 3: of things I just mentioned earlier. It's like when they

872
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 3: make that eye contact with you, just that smile or

873
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 3: that nod, that thumbs up, things of that nature are

874
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: kind of through techniques that flight attendants used to read

875
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 3: share customers. But I would say the most powerful thing

876
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: is that direct interaction to let them know that, hey,

877
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: you're there, you're aware, and kind of explaining the situation

878
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 3: so they have as much context as possible.

879
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: Now, how are you managing the demands of seeing too

880
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: customers who might be anxious versus like taking care of

881
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: the entire cabin? How do you manage that?

882
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: So we use a thing called CRM, which is crew

883
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: resource management, and a lot of companies use this, but

884
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 3: in the aviation industry our profession rather particularly for fight attendants,

885
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: there are things that we kind of use within that CRM,

886
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 3: and one of them is crew coordination. So crew coordination is, hey,

887
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 3: we might divide and conquer. So there may be a

888
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 3: customer who has a gift, I'll say, or just it's

889
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: very skilled that one on one affection to kind of

890
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: come to a customer to provide that reassurance and the

891
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 3: rest of us will make sure everyone else is okay,

892
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 3: that there are no other needs. But I would say

893
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: that crew management is kind of the biggest thing. It's like,

894
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: we divide and conquer, so we'll have one person that

895
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 3: may need this attention, and usually on domestic flights you

896
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 3: have at least three or four flight attendants. Most flights

897
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 3: for so, if you've got one person or even like

898
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: a group of people who are really experiencing this anxiety,

899
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 3: you can kind of have two that go deal directly

900
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 3: with these customers to provide this one on one experience,

901
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: and then the rest of the crew the two others,

902
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 3: you know, are able to kind of manage the captain.

903
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: But it's really it's really that crew coordination that's the

904
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 3: biggest piece.

905
00:54:47,920 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, I would imagine

906
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: this depends on the size of the plane we're on,

907
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: but how many flight attendants are typically on a flight.

908
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: So it varies. The FA has set mandates. So we

909
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: have what we call narrowbody and we have wide body aircrafts.

910
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 3: So narrowbodies are your oneile aircrafts. Everybody boards through the

911
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 3: same door, goes down one aisle and takes their seats,

912
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: Versus you have wide bodies which have anywhere from four

913
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 3: to six to eight doors, and you've got dual aisles

914
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: and as well as the center out and so the

915
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 3: bigger the aircraft are, the more seats, the more flight

916
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 3: attendants are needed. So typically on our domestic fleets, those

917
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 3: narrow body aircrafts you've got anywhere from one to two

918
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 3: hundred customers, you've got at least four flight attendants and

919
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 3: those are required mandated by the FAA. And so again

920
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 3: as that seat capacity increases, you've got crews up to

921
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: seven to ten flight attendants, usually on those larger body

922
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: aircraft flights.

923
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: Got it? Okay? Okay? So what should people know about

924
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: some of the services and resources that the major airlines

925
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: have to actually help people with flight anxiety? Anything you

926
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: can share them.

927
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: So I persousally have never experienced this, but I know

928
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 3: what airports have started to institute are these sensory rooms,

929
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 3: and so essentially they have these rooms and airports you

930
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: can go to. I know that they're like in major

931
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 3: hubs like New York, probably a few in Lax, but

932
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: you can go to these sensory rooms and they kind

933
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 3: of relax beforehand, so they set this mood with lighting

934
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 3: and music. Some of them have snacks things of that nature.

935
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 3: And I've even heard or read that some of them

936
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 3: have like these mock up aircraft so you can kind

937
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 3: of sit in seats and simulate what not necessarily like

938
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 3: what the ride would be like, but you can kind

939
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 3: of like envision yourself on a flight so you sit

940
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 3: in these seats and you've got music playing, and you

941
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 3: may have other components that can make you feel comfortable

942
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 3: prior to getting on your flight. And then a lot

943
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 3: of airports have also instituted like religious centers, so you

944
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 3: know chapels or things of that nature, are prayer rooms

945
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 3: or things of that nature to allow customers to go

946
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 3: in again relax, maybe prey or meditate or things of

947
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: that nature prior to flight. So that's one of the

948
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 3: biggest things. But I think on board it really comes

949
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: down to that the flight and that crew. So it

950
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 3: starts with just the captain communicating if there's going to

951
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 3: be any weather. For instance, if you're leaving your destination

952
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: and you know the weather has been bad, or you're

953
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: driving to the airport and you see the weather is bad,

954
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 3: or your flight has been delayed and they say it's

955
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 3: due to weather. It's really that communication piece starting with

956
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 3: the captain, and then throughout chick flight experience, it's those

957
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 3: flight attendants coming to really cater to your need and

958
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 3: explain the situation. So I think those two are the

959
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 3: biggest things. That's why being a flight attent is a

960
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: safety it's a safety job and it's a service job.

961
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 3: It really has to come from the heart because you're

962
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 3: catering to people who may maybe their first flight and

963
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 3: maybe their hundredth flight. So just keeping that a mark

964
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: the diversity on board.

965
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Isaia Yah, before we started recording, you were

966
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: saying that your family and friends often come to you

967
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: to kind of calm their own anxieties, and you tell

968
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: people like, the plane is not falling out of the sky.

969
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: So what kinds of things do you tell maybe friends

970
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: and family who may be anxious about flying themselves.

971
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 3: I just kind of explain again what turbulence is. It's

972
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 3: their air pockets in the sky that caused by different

973
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: things and their levels to turbulence, and that safe flying

974
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 3: is still one of the safest methods even I know,

975
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 3: like you mentioned doctor joralda stories we've had previously extremely sad,

976
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 3: but it is still one of the safest methods of transportation.

977
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 3: And so I just try to reassure them that one,

978
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 3: trust your faith, trust your crew because that training is

979
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 3: not in banging age intent and everyone who has vetted

980
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 3: and gone through it is qualified, and so it's really

981
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: about trusting your crew members because again, being safety professionals

982
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: that's what we're put on board to do.

983
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: So what tips do you have, Isaiah for people who

984
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: may be interested in becoming a flight attendant but maybe

985
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: struggle with flight anxiety.

986
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 3: The biggest thing I tell you is to fly more,

987
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: fly more, put yourself in that environment. And I kind

988
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: of say that because when I transition to the industry,

989
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: I kind of packed my bags. I was based in

990
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 3: New York City, so I left where I was from,

991
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 3: which is Texas, moved to New York City, and I

992
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 3: left my car in Texas. And so it got to

993
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: a point where, obviously, given the job, I'm flying a

994
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: lot more, but I was on a plane more than

995
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 3: I was in a car, which, when I think about it,

996
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 3: that is kind of crazy. But I got a little

997
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 3: numb to the experience of flying because I did it

998
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 3: so much. So I think the more you do something,

999
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 3: the more comfortable that you feel in it. But just

1000
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 3: through your research and as you go through training, you'll

1001
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 3: know if it's something truly for you. And once you

1002
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 3: have that educational piece of one, the experience, but also

1003
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 3: the training, you know how things are, you know navigated.

1004
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 3: Even when you've become a flight attendant, you learn about

1005
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 3: other parts of the job from being a gay agent

1006
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:16,959
Speaker 3: and how they operate the doors to the ground crew

1007
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 3: and how they operate the tanks and the baggage. So

1008
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: once you have that educational piece, I think in your

1009
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 3: own personal training and then the experience, I think that

1010
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 3: will help people overcome the anxiety and then step into

1011
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 3: what we call not even a job, but a lifestyle change.

1012
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: It truly is a lifestyle changer. And I've been able

1013
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 3: to touch parts of the world that I don't think

1014
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 3: I would have been able to touch. So I think

1015
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 3: that would be my biggest advice. Trust your training, trusted faith,

1016
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 3: and get that experience.

1017
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sounds like you know what you talked

1018
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: about before, like flying certain routes, right, so maybe flying

1019
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: over mountains, maybe flying longer businesses, so that you get

1020
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: a feel for lots of different ways that you know

1021
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: it feels to be in the air exactly exactly.

1022
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 3: I think that geographical piece is important because again you

1023
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 3: learn those routes. And then also you mentioned let the fall,

1024
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 3: so getting used to saying, hey, I'm going to be

1025
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: over the Atlantic Ocean for the next eight nine hours,

1026
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 3: what does that feel like? You know, you know, just

1027
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: mentally how do I feel knowing I'm over a huge

1028
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 3: body of water and going to be over that body

1029
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 3: of water for some time. So there are different things

1030
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 3: you can do, but I don't think it should limit anyone.

1031
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 3: Even if you're not interested in aviation, it should limit

1032
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 3: you from living your life, traveling, seeing new parts of

1033
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 3: the world, seeing friends and family, and being connected.

1034
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: This was incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for spending

1035
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:35,479
Speaker 1: some time with us today.

1036
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 3: I see you totally. Thank you, Doctor Joey. I appreciate it.

1037
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad Doctor Neilbournett and Isaiah could

1038
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: join us for today's conversation, and I hope you enjoyed

1039
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: it as much as I did. To learn more about

1040
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: navigating the challenges of flying, be sure to check out

1041
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com session

1042
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: for eighteen, and don't forget to textas episode to two

1043
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: of your girls right now so that they can check

1044
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: it out. Did you know that you could leave us

1045
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,080
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1046
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1047
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1048
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: to hear. Drop us a voicemail at Memo dot fm

1049
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's

1050
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast.

1051
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit

1052
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory,

1053
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: and don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy

1054
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,560
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1055
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: our Patreon community at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

1056
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Elise Ellis Indichubu and Tyree Rush.

1057
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much

1058
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to

1059
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take it

1060
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: care