WEBVTT - Disparity of Women on Boards

0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. This is Bloomberg business

0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay

0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.800
<v Speaker 1>ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping

0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:23.760
<v Speaker 1>today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech news

0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.800
<v Speaker 1>as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with

0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, female representation in the bordroom almost tripled since twenty ten,

0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.120
<v Speaker 2>with most gender diverse companies delivering higher shareholder returns compared

0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to male dominated boards. This is according to some research

0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:44.040
<v Speaker 2>from Bloomberg Intelligence.

0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.760
<v Speaker 3>You have the numbers, Carol, Yeah, listen, check this out. Everybody,

0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Women made up twenty six percent of boards in twenty

0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.400
<v Speaker 3>twenty three. That's up from nine percent and twenty ten,

0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.480
<v Speaker 3>so thirteen years. Highlighting how regulations in Europe, US and

0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Asia that compel change are impacting global corporations. This is

0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.640
<v Speaker 3>a again from a Bloomberg Intelligence report that was put

0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:03.600
<v Speaker 3>out in December.

0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Heather Spilsbury is chief operating officer of Fifty to fifty

0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Women on Boards. It's a global nonprofit that looks to

0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.200
<v Speaker 2>create a gender balance on corporate board she joins us

0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.039
<v Speaker 2>here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. It's good to

0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:15.400
<v Speaker 2>see you.

0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:16.280
<v Speaker 4>Go to see you too.

0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.399
<v Speaker 5>You were here a year ago with Carol. Yes, I

0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:19.679
<v Speaker 5>was the Chief Meling Officer.

0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:20.520
<v Speaker 4>Now I'm the CEO.

0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh oh oh yes, changing in the Google doc.

0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Great.

0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.119
<v Speaker 5>So you were here a year ago.

0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and a lot has changed.

0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.640
<v Speaker 5>A lot has changed since then. I'm just curious what

0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.080
<v Speaker 5>the world looks like to you right now.

0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.440
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's interesting because obviously we're an organization that's

0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.200
<v Speaker 4>committed to elevating women in the pipeline to corporate board service,

0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.360
<v Speaker 4>and we're committed to positively impacting corporate governance because it's

0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.600
<v Speaker 4>good for business. And we've always said that we've never

0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.000
<v Speaker 4>used really the acronym of D, E and I. So

0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.400
<v Speaker 4>when we get into these conversations, especially with corporations, right,

0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.160
<v Speaker 4>we've noticed that the language needs to change so that

0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.120
<v Speaker 4>they understand and really what we're here to support and

0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.720
<v Speaker 4>why we're here to support it. Women still don't hold

0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.040
<v Speaker 4>the same amount of seats as men. The research from

0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.680
<v Speaker 4>our standpoints shows that women hold thirty point two percent

0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.520
<v Speaker 4>of the seats as of Q four, twenty twenty four.

0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.440
<v Speaker 4>Which means that we have ways to go just from

0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.359
<v Speaker 4>a gender equality standpoint. And this isn't about representation or equality.

0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.040
<v Speaker 4>It's about making sure that you have talent in the

0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.760
<v Speaker 4>pipeline that is being looked at that maybe under networked

0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.559
<v Speaker 4>they may not have the same opportunity.

0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, the pushback that we are seeing, certainly from the administration,

0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.200
<v Speaker 3>whether it's an academia, whether it's across corporate America, whether

0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.240
<v Speaker 3>it's across the government, the pushback are we going to see,

0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Like what are you hearing as you talk to corporations.

0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.040
<v Speaker 3>Are they saying, yep, we are going to change what

0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.720
<v Speaker 3>we do or are they going to continue business as

0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.440
<v Speaker 3>usual with these DEI initiatives but just not talk about it.

0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.120
<v Speaker 4>It's a little bit of both. I would say that

0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.040
<v Speaker 4>the environment just depends on the corporation.

0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:53.239
<v Speaker 3>And some are pulling back.

0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.000
<v Speaker 4>Some are pulling back. Some are also saying we can

0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.080
<v Speaker 4>do this, but we're going to be silent partners. Some

0:02:58.160 --> 0:02:59.840
<v Speaker 4>are also saying we can do this, but we need

0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.240
<v Speaker 4>to reframe how we're going to partner with you and

0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.120
<v Speaker 4>the type of language we can use. And so US

0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.200
<v Speaker 4>as a nonprofit, you know, we rely on corporate sponsorship

0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.720
<v Speaker 4>to ensure that we can still run our programs and

0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.440
<v Speaker 4>events for women like fifty women to watch for boards,

0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.680
<v Speaker 4>like our board readiness workshops, like distributing research, like you know,

0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.960
<v Speaker 4>any of the programs that we have to offer women

0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.079
<v Speaker 4>and to men. Frankly, you know, because these events are

0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.560
<v Speaker 4>an opportunity to network with directors.

0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.920
<v Speaker 3>Do you have to water down your message our messaging?

0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:28.560
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:30.240
<v Speaker 3>I was it's hard when you're you know what the

0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:31.160
<v Speaker 3>company's called, you know.

0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:31.760
<v Speaker 5>And when it's called.

0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.680
<v Speaker 4>But again, it's fifty to fifty. So we're not asking

0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.720
<v Speaker 4>for men to be eliminated from the equation. We just

0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.680
<v Speaker 4>want to ensure that we're looking at other talent, which

0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.400
<v Speaker 4>includes women, which includes people of color. And again it

0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.800
<v Speaker 4>goes back to those under network groups that maybe don't

0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.240
<v Speaker 4>have the same opportunities as white men have had in

0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.119
<v Speaker 4>the past, especially when it comes to securing a board

0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:55.200
<v Speaker 4>seat in board governance.

0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.520
<v Speaker 2>But is that something we can talk about right now,

0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Like it seems like if you were to say that.

0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:05.640
<v Speaker 5>In an environment.

0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Now, it's as volatile as is.

0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, it's it's like your persona on grata, It's like,

0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like it's a it's a four letter work.

0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:17.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it is.

0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.000
<v Speaker 4>Well yeah, and it's it's the acronym in and of

0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.239
<v Speaker 4>itself that I think is being weaponized. And we're talking

0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.040
<v Speaker 4>about merit and and when you look at the composition

0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.919
<v Speaker 4>of a board, everybody that's appointed to a board seat

0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.560
<v Speaker 4>should be viewed at it from a from a merit standpoint.

0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.960
<v Speaker 4>Do they have the expertise, do they have the skills?

0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:37.360
<v Speaker 5>You know?

0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.159
<v Speaker 4>Is that board also succession planning? Are they doing the

0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.400
<v Speaker 4>right thing? So that's when we when we look at governance,

0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.280
<v Speaker 4>we really need to look at that holistically.

0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Heather, One thing I do wonder, because women are now

0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.039
<v Speaker 3>what more than a third right right of board members,

0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.840
<v Speaker 3>and non white directors I think are more prevalent as well.

0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.800
<v Speaker 5>Does that ultimately help.

0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Women going for women going forward because the composition is

0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.360
<v Speaker 3>more just diversity in general.

0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.760
<v Speaker 4>It does. There is also some other research that shows

0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.440
<v Speaker 4>that women are leaving boards much sooner than they used to,

0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.680
<v Speaker 4>which means they may not have a voice on that

0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.800
<v Speaker 4>board seat. There's more research on our end that needs

0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.680
<v Speaker 4>to be done there, but there's also other things to

0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.279
<v Speaker 4>look at. Right, So, even though they're attaining board seats,

0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.520
<v Speaker 4>the amount of time that they're spending on that board

0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.800
<v Speaker 4>is something that needs to be reviewed. I would say

0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.080
<v Speaker 4>that it does help because women end up supporting other

0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.359
<v Speaker 4>women like men end up supporting other men. I mean,

0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.720
<v Speaker 4>it's just natural, right, It's in our own bias. But

0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.520
<v Speaker 4>I think what we've seen from our research is when

0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.640
<v Speaker 4>women are pointed to boards, they are committed to diversity.

0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.239
<v Speaker 4>And that's not a bad thing because when you're looking

0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.440
<v Speaker 4>at your company, who are you serving as customers clients?

0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:44.799
<v Speaker 5>Are you a global organization?

0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.800
<v Speaker 4>Do you need that expertise and experience?

0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.400
<v Speaker 2>So reached out to Jeff Green, who covers these issues

0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.040
<v Speaker 2>here at Bloomberg. He made the point to me that

0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.840
<v Speaker 2>women are now more than a third of board members,

0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.279
<v Speaker 2>but there are some questions. He pointed out about forty

0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.960
<v Speaker 2>percent being some sort of level of resistance at least,

0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, in terms of what the workforce looks like

0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.719
<v Speaker 2>right now, maybe until we see more retirement from baby boomers.

0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Do you see that is there a resistance when you

0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.919
<v Speaker 2>get to forty percent of women on boards? I don't.

0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:14.719
<v Speaker 5>I don't know we can get to fifty.

0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.800
<v Speaker 4>I think we can get to fifty. I think it's

0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.440
<v Speaker 4>going to take time. I think, especially in the climate

0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.640
<v Speaker 4>we're in right now the numbers that we previously said

0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.159
<v Speaker 4>that we'd reach gender parody by you know, by twenty fifty,

0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.680
<v Speaker 4>that may take longer, which is unfortunate because you know,

0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.960
<v Speaker 4>you would think that in today's age where we've all

0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, grown and evolved as humans and people and

0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.680
<v Speaker 4>it as businesses, because really most businesses are global in

0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.679
<v Speaker 4>some way, shape or form, especially corporations that are publicly listed,

0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.240
<v Speaker 4>you would just think that the natural thing to do

0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.920
<v Speaker 4>would be to include talent that has that expertise that

0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.200
<v Speaker 4>comes from a different background or experience than someone else does.

0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.599
<v Speaker 4>And that's not just about race, and it's not just

0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.040
<v Speaker 4>about gender. Again, it goes back to expertise ease. You know,

0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.919
<v Speaker 4>what life experience do you have? What qualities do you

0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.599
<v Speaker 4>add to the board that someone doesn't have, and they

0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.120
<v Speaker 4>might give you a different perspective.

0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.520
<v Speaker 3>I am also curious when company is a global company, right,

0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.840
<v Speaker 3>and they operate in global markets, right, that may still

0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.080
<v Speaker 3>embraced EI initiatives.

0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:18.120
<v Speaker 4>That is a really good point.

0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:19.120
<v Speaker 3>How does that work out?

0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:19.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.240
<v Speaker 4>And they do and I and you know, we have

0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.000
<v Speaker 4>a couple of clear examples. I won't name those companies,

0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.760
<v Speaker 4>but they are global companies and they are sponsors of ours.

0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:28.920
<v Speaker 4>So they've said to us, well, we're going to lean

0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.200
<v Speaker 4>in more on the international side, where you have other

0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.880
<v Speaker 4>chapters outside of the US, which is Mexico, Toronto, London, Tokyo, Nairobi,

0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.120
<v Speaker 4>things of that nature, where they want to get involved

0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.840
<v Speaker 4>because they know nothing is changing there and they're still

0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.880
<v Speaker 4>supportive of what we're our mission is and what we're doing.

0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.679
<v Speaker 5>Do they have to be did they did we quiet

0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.160
<v Speaker 5>about this? Now? Did they used to sort of talk.

0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.720
<v Speaker 2>About their supportive issues such as this and now maybe

0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.000
<v Speaker 2>they're still supporting but they're not advertising yet.

0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:56.240
<v Speaker 5>Correct. But it's not.

0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.360
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't so much as as at a regional level,

0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.160
<v Speaker 4>to be frank, it wasn't like, oh, we're going to

0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.960
<v Speaker 4>support the US in this way and then international regions

0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.960
<v Speaker 4>in this way from where we're based. It was more

0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.080
<v Speaker 4>of holistic conversations about supporting women on boards. I think

0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.360
<v Speaker 4>now we're seeing more of a shift with those global

0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.920
<v Speaker 4>companies specifically who are saying, let's put more of our

0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.280
<v Speaker 4>dollars into this part of the business where you have

0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.000
<v Speaker 4>events and where you're supporting women through educational programs. But

0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.360
<v Speaker 4>then that tips the scale in a very different way.

0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:28.720
<v Speaker 5>S then what does it you look like? What does

0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.560
<v Speaker 5>the environment look like in the US right now? Exactly?

0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.800
<v Speaker 5>Because that's when we'll start to see the effects of.

0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.600
<v Speaker 4>This, and that's where I think globalization is so important

0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.200
<v Speaker 4>and is key. We cannot look at ourselves as a

0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.560
<v Speaker 4>country that's separated from other countries because we're not. We're

0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.040
<v Speaker 4>all so intertwined.

0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.760
<v Speaker 2>From a perspective of a for example, a head of state,

0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.559
<v Speaker 2>we are separate from that. We're a country that has

0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.640
<v Speaker 2>never had a female head of state. True, and a

0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of you know, our quote unquote peer countries have.

0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.440
<v Speaker 4>But think of companies like Apple. I mean they rely

0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.360
<v Speaker 4>heavily on China for their products and to be able

0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.280
<v Speaker 4>to get that at a decent price, and so having

0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.720
<v Speaker 4>a manufacturer that here in the US creates a huge

0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.360
<v Speaker 4>divide for US as a nation where we have to

0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.760
<v Speaker 4>now bring this all in house. That's a lot of

0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.600
<v Speaker 4>infrastructure to build that we don't currently have and doesn't exist.

0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.199
<v Speaker 3>Well. Last question twenty seconds what is this environment due

0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.040
<v Speaker 3>to your mission? Does it slow it down a little bit?

0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:22.480
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.480
<v Speaker 4>We are leaning in and I know in other organizations

0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.360
<v Speaker 4>are doing the same thing. I think it's really important

0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.200
<v Speaker 4>for us to stay committed to what we're doing. We're

0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.720
<v Speaker 4>committed to elevating women in the pipeline to corporate board

0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.880
<v Speaker 4>service with allyship from men, also supporting men on their journeys.

0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:38.760
<v Speaker 4>Of course, if they, you know, they're welcome to come

0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.839
<v Speaker 4>to our events and meet corporate directors. We just want

0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:45.240
<v Speaker 4>to ensure that corporate governance is positively impacted, because again,

0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.760
<v Speaker 4>it's good for business, and so it doesn't do us

0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.240
<v Speaker 4>any good to keep quiet and sit back.

0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:51.000
<v Speaker 5>Have you called the White House?

0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Are they taking a meeting?

0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:52.840
<v Speaker 4>No, they have not.

0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.319
<v Speaker 3>Okay, TVD, TVD. Heather, thank you so much, so thanks

0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.640
<v Speaker 3>for having me get check in with you. Heather Spillsberry,

0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.160
<v Speaker 3>she's the chief executive officer. Fifty to fifty women on

0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.080
<v Speaker 3>boards joining us at studio. Thank you so much.

0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:09.240
<v Speaker 2>This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.079
<v Speaker 2>and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday

0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.120
<v Speaker 2>afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:21.079
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.

0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.199
<v Speaker 2>You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.439
<v Speaker 2>and always on the Bloomberg terminal