Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. This is Bloomberg business
Speaker 1: Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay
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Speaker 1: today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech news
Speaker 1: as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with
Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, female representation in the bordroom almost tripled since twenty ten,
Speaker 2: with most gender diverse companies delivering higher shareholder returns compared
Speaker 2: to male dominated boards. This is according to some research
Speaker 2: from Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 3: You have the numbers, Carol, Yeah, listen, check this out. Everybody,
Speaker 3: Women made up twenty six percent of boards in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three. That's up from nine percent and twenty ten,
Speaker 3: so thirteen years. Highlighting how regulations in Europe, US and
Speaker 3: Asia that compel change are impacting global corporations. This is
Speaker 3: a again from a Bloomberg Intelligence report that was put
Speaker 3: out in December.
Speaker 2: Heather Spilsbury is chief operating officer of Fifty to fifty
Speaker 2: Women on Boards. It's a global nonprofit that looks to
Speaker 2: create a gender balance on corporate board she joins us
Speaker 2: here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. It's good to
Speaker 2: see you.
Speaker 4: Go to see you too.
Speaker 5: You were here a year ago with Carol. Yes, I
Speaker 5: was the Chief Meling Officer.
Speaker 4: Now I'm the CEO.
Speaker 3: Oh oh oh yes, changing in the Google doc.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 5: So you were here a year ago.
Speaker 2: Yes, and a lot has changed.
Speaker 5: A lot has changed since then. I'm just curious what
Speaker 5: the world looks like to you right now.
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting because obviously we're an organization that's
Speaker 4: committed to elevating women in the pipeline to corporate board service,
Speaker 4: and we're committed to positively impacting corporate governance because it's
Speaker 4: good for business. And we've always said that we've never
Speaker 4: used really the acronym of D, E and I. So
Speaker 4: when we get into these conversations, especially with corporations, right,
Speaker 4: we've noticed that the language needs to change so that
Speaker 4: they understand and really what we're here to support and
Speaker 4: why we're here to support it. Women still don't hold
Speaker 4: the same amount of seats as men. The research from
Speaker 4: our standpoints shows that women hold thirty point two percent
Speaker 4: of the seats as of Q four, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: Which means that we have ways to go just from
Speaker 4: a gender equality standpoint. And this isn't about representation or equality.
Speaker 4: It's about making sure that you have talent in the
Speaker 4: pipeline that is being looked at that maybe under networked
Speaker 4: they may not have the same opportunity.
Speaker 3: Well, the pushback that we are seeing, certainly from the administration,
Speaker 3: whether it's an academia, whether it's across corporate America, whether
Speaker 3: it's across the government, the pushback are we going to see,
Speaker 3: Like what are you hearing as you talk to corporations.
Speaker 3: Are they saying, yep, we are going to change what
Speaker 3: we do or are they going to continue business as
Speaker 3: usual with these DEI initiatives but just not talk about it.
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of both. I would say that
Speaker 4: the environment just depends on the corporation.
Speaker 3: And some are pulling back.
Speaker 4: Some are pulling back. Some are also saying we can
Speaker 4: do this, but we're going to be silent partners. Some
Speaker 4: are also saying we can do this, but we need
Speaker 4: to reframe how we're going to partner with you and
Speaker 4: the type of language we can use. And so US
Speaker 4: as a nonprofit, you know, we rely on corporate sponsorship
Speaker 4: to ensure that we can still run our programs and
Speaker 4: events for women like fifty women to watch for boards,
Speaker 4: like our board readiness workshops, like distributing research, like you know,
Speaker 4: any of the programs that we have to offer women
Speaker 4: and to men. Frankly, you know, because these events are
Speaker 4: an opportunity to network with directors.
Speaker 3: Do you have to water down your message our messaging?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I was it's hard when you're you know what the
Speaker 3: company's called, you know.
Speaker 5: And when it's called.
Speaker 4: But again, it's fifty to fifty. So we're not asking
Speaker 4: for men to be eliminated from the equation. We just
Speaker 4: want to ensure that we're looking at other talent, which
Speaker 4: includes women, which includes people of color. And again it
Speaker 4: goes back to those under network groups that maybe don't
Speaker 4: have the same opportunities as white men have had in
Speaker 4: the past, especially when it comes to securing a board
Speaker 4: seat in board governance.
Speaker 2: But is that something we can talk about right now,
Speaker 2: Like it seems like if you were to say that.
Speaker 5: In an environment.
Speaker 1: Now, it's as volatile as is.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's it's like your persona on grata, It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's a it's a four letter work.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, and it's it's the acronym in and of
Speaker 4: itself that I think is being weaponized. And we're talking
Speaker 4: about merit and and when you look at the composition
Speaker 4: of a board, everybody that's appointed to a board seat
Speaker 4: should be viewed at it from a from a merit standpoint.
Speaker 4: Do they have the expertise, do they have the skills?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: Is that board also succession planning? Are they doing the
Speaker 4: right thing? So that's when we when we look at governance,
Speaker 4: we really need to look at that holistically.
Speaker 3: Heather, One thing I do wonder, because women are now
Speaker 3: what more than a third right right of board members,
Speaker 3: and non white directors I think are more prevalent as well.
Speaker 5: Does that ultimately help.
Speaker 3: Women going for women going forward because the composition is
Speaker 3: more just diversity in general.
Speaker 4: It does. There is also some other research that shows
Speaker 4: that women are leaving boards much sooner than they used to,
Speaker 4: which means they may not have a voice on that
Speaker 4: board seat. There's more research on our end that needs
Speaker 4: to be done there, but there's also other things to
Speaker 4: look at. Right, So, even though they're attaining board seats,
Speaker 4: the amount of time that they're spending on that board
Speaker 4: is something that needs to be reviewed. I would say
Speaker 4: that it does help because women end up supporting other
Speaker 4: women like men end up supporting other men. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's just natural, right, It's in our own bias. But
Speaker 4: I think what we've seen from our research is when
Speaker 4: women are pointed to boards, they are committed to diversity.
Speaker 4: And that's not a bad thing because when you're looking
Speaker 4: at your company, who are you serving as customers clients?
Speaker 5: Are you a global organization?
Speaker 4: Do you need that expertise and experience?
Speaker 2: So reached out to Jeff Green, who covers these issues
Speaker 2: here at Bloomberg. He made the point to me that
Speaker 2: women are now more than a third of board members,
Speaker 2: but there are some questions. He pointed out about forty
Speaker 2: percent being some sort of level of resistance at least,
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of what the workforce looks like
Speaker 2: right now, maybe until we see more retirement from baby boomers.
Speaker 2: Do you see that is there a resistance when you
Speaker 2: get to forty percent of women on boards? I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't know we can get to fifty.
Speaker 4: I think we can get to fifty. I think it's
Speaker 4: going to take time. I think, especially in the climate
Speaker 4: we're in right now the numbers that we previously said
Speaker 4: that we'd reach gender parody by you know, by twenty fifty,
Speaker 4: that may take longer, which is unfortunate because you know,
Speaker 4: you would think that in today's age where we've all
Speaker 4: you know, grown and evolved as humans and people and
Speaker 4: it as businesses, because really most businesses are global in
Speaker 4: some way, shape or form, especially corporations that are publicly listed,
Speaker 4: you would just think that the natural thing to do
Speaker 4: would be to include talent that has that expertise that
Speaker 4: comes from a different background or experience than someone else does.
Speaker 4: And that's not just about race, and it's not just
Speaker 4: about gender. Again, it goes back to expertise ease. You know,
Speaker 4: what life experience do you have? What qualities do you
Speaker 4: add to the board that someone doesn't have, and they
Speaker 4: might give you a different perspective.
Speaker 3: I am also curious when company is a global company, right,
Speaker 3: and they operate in global markets, right, that may still
Speaker 3: embraced EI initiatives.
Speaker 4: That is a really good point.
Speaker 3: How does that work out?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And they do and I and you know, we have
Speaker 4: a couple of clear examples. I won't name those companies,
Speaker 4: but they are global companies and they are sponsors of ours.
Speaker 4: So they've said to us, well, we're going to lean
Speaker 4: in more on the international side, where you have other
Speaker 4: chapters outside of the US, which is Mexico, Toronto, London, Tokyo, Nairobi,
Speaker 4: things of that nature, where they want to get involved
Speaker 4: because they know nothing is changing there and they're still
Speaker 4: supportive of what we're our mission is and what we're doing.
Speaker 5: Do they have to be did they did we quiet
Speaker 5: about this? Now? Did they used to sort of talk.
Speaker 2: About their supportive issues such as this and now maybe
Speaker 2: they're still supporting but they're not advertising yet.
Speaker 5: Correct. But it's not.
Speaker 4: It wasn't so much as as at a regional level,
Speaker 4: to be frank, it wasn't like, oh, we're going to
Speaker 4: support the US in this way and then international regions
Speaker 4: in this way from where we're based. It was more
Speaker 4: of holistic conversations about supporting women on boards. I think
Speaker 4: now we're seeing more of a shift with those global
Speaker 4: companies specifically who are saying, let's put more of our
Speaker 4: dollars into this part of the business where you have
Speaker 4: events and where you're supporting women through educational programs. But
Speaker 4: then that tips the scale in a very different way.
Speaker 5: S then what does it you look like? What does
Speaker 5: the environment look like in the US right now? Exactly?
Speaker 5: Because that's when we'll start to see the effects of.
Speaker 4: This, and that's where I think globalization is so important
Speaker 4: and is key. We cannot look at ourselves as a
Speaker 4: country that's separated from other countries because we're not. We're
Speaker 4: all so intertwined.
Speaker 2: From a perspective of a for example, a head of state,
Speaker 2: we are separate from that. We're a country that has
Speaker 2: never had a female head of state. True, and a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, our quote unquote peer countries have.
Speaker 4: But think of companies like Apple. I mean they rely
Speaker 4: heavily on China for their products and to be able
Speaker 4: to get that at a decent price, and so having
Speaker 4: a manufacturer that here in the US creates a huge
Speaker 4: divide for US as a nation where we have to
Speaker 4: now bring this all in house. That's a lot of
Speaker 4: infrastructure to build that we don't currently have and doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: Well. Last question twenty seconds what is this environment due
Speaker 3: to your mission? Does it slow it down a little bit?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: We are leaning in and I know in other organizations
Speaker 4: are doing the same thing. I think it's really important
Speaker 4: for us to stay committed to what we're doing. We're
Speaker 4: committed to elevating women in the pipeline to corporate board
Speaker 4: service with allyship from men, also supporting men on their journeys.
Speaker 4: Of course, if they, you know, they're welcome to come
Speaker 4: to our events and meet corporate directors. We just want
Speaker 4: to ensure that corporate governance is positively impacted, because again,
Speaker 4: it's good for business, and so it doesn't do us
Speaker 4: any good to keep quiet and sit back.
Speaker 5: Have you called the White House?
Speaker 3: Are they taking a meeting?
Speaker 4: No, they have not.
Speaker 3: Okay, TVD, TVD. Heather, thank you so much, so thanks
Speaker 3: for having me get check in with you. Heather Spillsberry,
Speaker 3: she's the chief executive officer. Fifty to fifty women on
Speaker 3: boards joining us at studio. Thank you so much.
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